EPT[T] MTG Mini Mafia
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
Also as already mentioned I'm taking this game as an exercise in not talking way to much again, so I'm trying to let marv do most of the talking while not spamming up everything myself. But that first was kinda weird. ---Toad | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On June 25 2012 09:01 GreYMisT wrote: werebugs-go are you running affinity? not exactly. Why? | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On June 25 2012 09:38 Oberyn wrote: Any particular reason its funny? That my post (Kita). From now on though, you can assume that all posts were made by us as a team, so we won't by signing our names. Telling us that you're not going to spam is spam <3 [...] What is the strategy to use as mafia in SSB mafia in irc Kita? How does Town usually lose in those games? I think this game will play a little like igroks irc SSB considering the mechanics, that's why I thought it's funny. If gonzaw had posted that, whatever I don't recall him playing those funny set-ups a lot but you played quite some SSB as well yet you posted something like that. With everyone having 20HP this essentially plays a lot like a no-flip game the first couple of cycles because we don't get information early on because neither town nor mafia can outright kill someone, hence the SSB reference because in that game mafia has 1KP, a lynch is treated as only 1life as well and everyone has 3 stock. So "worst case" someone gets lynched and shot by mafia reducing him to 1 stock. The real worst case would be town focussing dmg early on as in: lynch d1, vig n1, mafia shot n1 => mafia already killed someone although it's a multi-life setup. That happened once to me because some guy thought it's a good idea to shoot into someone who already lost stock. In reality you usually don't focus dmg early on and the unwritten law is something like "never shoot someone who already lost HP unless you're really certain". Sure if you're right with your read that's awesome but being wrong on a read in a game like this is way worse than in a normal game, therefore you don't really want to commit early on, because that leads to mafia shooting our guys down 1 by one early on. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On June 25 2012 14:45 Oberyn wrote: Artanis, how does the Attack Phase resolve? + Show Spoiler [[...] + ] Which players decide who to attack with and which players decide who to block with? Can you attack and block with a monster at the same time? If not, what determines if you are able to attack or you have to block? (i.e someone's "turn" in attacking came before yours) Can different players "team up" in a "same turn" to attack you? For instance a creature from player A has banding....and decides to band with a creature from player B to attack player C or something? Yeah I'm not sure I really get how the Attack Phase will work. Also can players use stuff from other players as well or something (if they agree) like that banding situation? Ehmm....I think those will be all the questions for now  Wait...marv is playing as WB-G as well? Okay I say we all team up to kill the marv-Toad hydra by the end of the next round, marv policy lynch. ( )Although to be honest I don't really like WB-G's attitude so far. He seemed pretty antagonistic towards kita and acted in a condescending manner towards him (with the "SSB mafia strategy" thing he talked about). I also don't like Toad giving himself excuses for not posting: I don't remember him specifically saying he is using this game as an exercise to stop spamming, the only relevant post I've seen from him about it was: And he didn't seem to make it clear at all that "this game is an exercise in not talking way too much again". (If I somehow missed it then please show it to me) He did seem one of the first to start discussion though so I'm not that suspicious of him, but I want others opinions on him. Also Prob, I know you are saying "Gonzaw obvious mafia, his accusations feel forced and he's too aggressive" by now in the Obs QT so shut up >_> /gonzaw Yeah I was kind of referring to that post you quoted but especially to this one: On June 19 2012 22:49 Toadesstern wrote: We need more people to hydra. Make this like couple therapy: Everyone has to hydra with someone else for the lulz. I am going to do the magic stuff and marv is doing the useless mafia stuff while I pwn everything no matter of alignment. Not posting a lot might be a good "therapy" for me to be less hypno-toadish :p I realized that this was not precise message at all and people could treat it like a joke for whatever reason, so yeah I mentioned it once again to make sure it wasn't a joke. I'm lying a lot in games when talking about games but I'm never lying when talking about outside of game stuff like this or when I'm going to be afk for a day because I'm taking the train to my parents place so I figured it's best to make a quick mention about it to not get some jubjubs later on screaming at me "heeey, why is Toad not posting and marv is the one posting all the time? LYYYYNCH HIM". That's how I am: I am open about stuff like that no matter of alignment and just telling the truth because if I don't as town I'm starting confusion on stuff I can most likely never prove and as mafia it's not like I can do something wrong. And well about the kita thing: This is a multi-life game therefore it's probably going to play like a multi-life game and I know that kita knows how to play those. I never intended it to be condescending. I wanted to know wether Kita posted that first post or you, that's why I was talking like that, although I don't have an idea why it's "condescending". But surely being aggressive (I think it was aggressive and not antagonistic...) is a mafiatreat I guess? This hydra business is real weird though, I'm getting different reads from gonzaw and kita  | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
What good is it for you guys if you know my deck (which shouldn't be hard to guess at this point of time) anyways. Someone already pointed it out: Those were constructed pregame so all we get to know is what general gameplan someone has but that's not even helping. Let's say the green guy is not an elven guy but a "big green monster"-guy. If he were to claim that and ended up being town mafia would know that they don't have to deal with him early on at all. We can't adjust our strategy according to claims because we don't know if something "dangerous" is a huge asset for town or something really dangerous right now. And well... claiming colors... I'm sure everyone is able to read the other thread and figure that out themselves. Everyone was given the color that is most used in his / their deck and if you have someone with two islands, two mountains, two forrests or whatever else at this point of time that miiiight be a hint. I'd say we should start talking about stuff happening. Greymist what do you think of this post: On June 25 2012 15:03 Nova_Terra wrote: Also wtf how is anyone okay with this flying ? I like that post for a bunch of reasons, what about you? Also as a sidenote about marv: Yeah he never played magic before. I'm explaining stuff to him in skype (or once he's back) but I'm starting with stuff like "okay, so you have an economy, like in SC. That economy are your lands and you can use that to play monster(s) or spells.... if you want to play something you have to tap your land(s)... if something is tapped you can't use it this turn anymore". So yeah it's really basic so far and I'll screw what I said earlier. I'll post a bit more than I intended to the first couple of cycles if we keeps talking about magic "theory". He could talk about that but that'd be nothing than just blabbering what I told him in skype about it :p | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On June 26 2012 01:57 Promethelax wrote: so lets' talk mafia instead. Since there is no day one lynch we have an attack phase to work out, so far none of us have creatures with haste (although Matt might, where is he anyway?) so none of us will be doing damage with creatures. However some of us must have spells that deal damage, do we use them now or later and who do we target? Why? Since attacking is our lynch equivalent we should be talking about it. So far we have wasted a day talking about mechanics (which, maybe, hasn't been a waste since this set up is new to all of us). We should move on to something where mafia can't just play follow the leader and has to make some statements for themselves, how should we as town do damage? Do we each attack the guy we have the scummiest read on or do we all work together to kill one guy or do we intentionally spread the damage around so that everyone gets a taste? What does everyone think? and why? yeah but that again is talking about the set-up. Wether or not we should use spells or whatnot. We can't waste another day on talking about how we want to to stuff. I'd rather talk about who gets to be the target for what reason and than talk about how we're doing it. That's why I quoted that one post from Terra to talk about stuff like that. On June 26 2012 02:01 GreYMisT wrote: If you need help with anything marc, just ask. I've been teaching magic to people for a long time. I'm not sure What you mean by "I like this post" (if it was sarcastic or what not). I think he just doesn't like my slivers Why are you dodging this one? As I already said I like that one post for a reason. I want to know with what mindset you're playing this game and if you're looking for the same things I am looking for. Apparently the post I quoted did not catch your interest when it should have. He didn't say he dislikes your slivers. He asked why noone else has a problem with something that potentially makes a shitton of your monsters fliers. He's scared about that card of yours. Sure that could be a clever mafia tricking us but do you think a mafia would be scared about something like that? If he was he'd just take you out early on. This looks like a townie being scared to face someone with a shitton of fliers because he thinks he's not prepared for that in the way he'd like to. Or it's a mafia who thinks it's easy to get people on you with a cheap argument if people consider this dangerous as well. Why are you not paying attention to stuff like that? That's why I quoted it because I think it's a post people could have opinions about while all the other "let's talk about mechanics posts" are easy to do no matter of alignment. That post however is either townish influence or mafia influenced and people should be bound to have an opinion about stuff like that. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On June 26 2012 02:41 Promethelax wrote: True enough...though it would still work on my harrier and Fulla's 'mancer (unless we buff them). It seems too early to do that since there is a 7/9 chance that GreY is on our side and weakening a powerful town player is a bad idea. I like the idea of attacking with everything and not blocking with anything, it seems pro-town to me to weaken everyone. In fact I think it would be better for us if everyone had 1 life instead of 20 since that would totally mitigate the increase in mafia kp. Well that's kind of the case. We can't outright kill someone right now and neither can mafia. Yeah mafia thingie gets stronger every cycle but we get way more stronger. Picture some guys sticking together on something like day4 and attacking with what they've got. They could easily kill someone in one cycle, so towns "lynch" get's stronger faster than mafias KP, especially in the later game if you have something like 4 o 5 lands and get a 3/3 or 4/4 creature out instead of a 1/1 creature like now. So that's why I disagree with what Kita said about focusing our attacks early on to not play the long game. I think town's getting stronger way faster. But that's AGAIN talking set-up. I think I did a nice post about greymist. How is noone talking about that part but instead people keep talking about the 3 lines of set-up talk in there I (or someone else in another post) did to answer someone else. So far what I pointed out about Greymist strikes me as odd. I think he would not have answered the way he did as town + Show Spoiler [clicky] + On June 26 2012 02:01 GreYMisT wrote: If you need help with anything marc, just ask. I've been teaching magic to people for a long time. I'm not sure What you mean by "I like this post" (if it was sarcastic or what not). I think he just doesn't like my slivers but instead just talked about it. Even if he considered it a null, there's no harm in being honest about it, yet he dodged the question completly and I think he's not even paying attention to stuff like that. If you disagree with that it's AT LEAST something to talk about. Why do you disagree with what I said about Greymist or why do you agree with what I said about Greymist? Do you think it's a small hint, a rather big one or do you think it's completly irrelevant because you disagree with me. That's all stuff we could talk about. Nova_Terra said he doesn't like kita+gonzaw over here: On June 25 2012 14:45 Nova_Terra wrote: Also oberyns posts I do not like, coming from experienced players and seeming so unsure Etc. Keep an eye on him/them That's also stuff we could talk about but instead everyone keeps talking mechanics instead of stuff that gets us somewhere. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On June 26 2012 05:43 strongandbig wrote: I agree with this train of logic except for the not attacking part. What we need now more than anything is information. Sure attacking weakens us, but by like 1 or 2 life. I'd like to see who does what. I never said we should not attack. I said we don't need to focus our attacks for the sake of focussing because if we're wrong focussing our attacks is even worse in a multi-life set-up. We need to make sure we're not just focussing for the sake of focussing our attacks. It's hard enough to get a majority in normal games with lynches and voting. If we force people to do what the "group" wants to do we make everyone do what the majority wants but that can be influenced by mafia as well, not to mention that it's giving people easy excuses like "well I attacked him because you told me to" essentially ruining the town atmosphere within a couple of cycles. Not to mention the thread of being wrong on a read in the first place. I'd rather have people explain their reasoning themselves instead of just doing what someone told them to do. Keeps people accountable / responsible instead of sheeping whatever looks nice. Wiggles got runner up for the mayor-election in LV for saying crap like "I'll do whatever town wants me to do and I'll discuss what I'm going to do with all of town" because people think that's something nice, when in reality it's just a cheap excuse for saying "sry guys, just did what you told me to do" later on. On June 26 2012 05:39 Fulla wrote: I am newish to forum based mafia yes sorry. I'm not used to people posting such huge chunks of text at a time, and replying. I'm more used to real time fluid constant chat it's a bit overwhelming. It's not a good excuse I know, just bare in mind. Anyways It seems the more I talk the more I only make myself suspicious, but I'll try to keep contributing. Hopefully steadily more useful input. Town Obe + Prom - seem very town to me. Grey - town feeling to me. Neutral Strong - not sure, why so eager to attack? Nova - not sure - quite hostile, but then probably just low tolerance for noobs, which is fair enough tbh. Can't say yet Were - 1 post..? Matt - barely posted anything? Zeal - only posted how agrees we should all reveal? What do you mean with 1 post? My filter shows 12 posts so far. Also we need explanations on reads or you're unreadable. Most of all Townreads are incredible easy to do for mafia, so I'd rather talk about mafiareads because they're hard to fake. Mafia have all the information they need and know who's town and can just dish out a couple of townreads no problem. So here's two possibilities: 1) You are a mafia and you posted that to look like someone doing "stuff" when actualyl that's nothing because as mentioned dishing out townreads is incredible easy as mafia, especially if you're not even explaining them 2) You are a townie who thinks he needs to post something for the sake of posting something. If that's the case those posts don't really help us because we can't read anything into that except for "yep, got the same idea" or "nope, I don't think so". Especially if we don't know how good you are (you said you're new) we can't keep you accountable for something like that. Here's how this works: You quote something, explain why the quoted part is interesting and what strikes you as odd. See the post I did about Greymist for example. The first one I did was fishing for reactions. The 2nd one was a conclusion to Greymists answer to my first one and I explained what stricted me as odd so far. If activity is low or you feel like we should move on to another topic than the one's that's currently the one everyone's talking about (in that case it was set-up-talk) you may add a phrase like "guys, what are your thoughts about that stuff?" to make sure people don't just ignore it. ///Preview-Edit:/// On June 26 2012 06:07 Fulla wrote: Could we not just force everyone to say who they suspect/would attack? Either way we need the silent ones to speak first. See, that's the point. That's what we're doing right now and so far only very little people even started to talk about who might be suspicious and actually explained why they think so. There's really a shitton of stuff to talk about right now and noone's willing to.
that's all stuff that comes to my mind right now and that's all stuff that people could have different opinions on right now depending on wether or not someone knows the guy in question and what he thinks about the rest | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
Anyways I could have used a uni-proxy for http:// stuff only but would have died of boredom this week. So here's the thing: I have to catch up on what happened the last 24 hours, I have to post my game I'm about to host and I have to buy some food or I'm going to starve. I'm starting with the food thingie right now but wanted to give you that update, especially to marv as well because he hasn't seen me for 24 hours now and might be wondering what's going on, so instead of 2 posts I am doing just one for everyone lol. If you have something really important that I need to read RIGHT NOW make a post with a "Toad" in it and make sure it has at least one [b] and [big] tag around it so I see it as something important. Other than that not much to say right now. I tapped both my lands anyways, my creature has no haste and I can't do anything this cycle anyways, so I don't see a reason to rush for me here. If you do see a reason, tell me as just mentioned and I'll work things out and stop doing other things for a while but I just arrived at my parents place and need a rest and something to eat right now :p | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
I don't like plans in this set-up because we're considering to plan how someone "votes" in this set-up. I'd like everyone to do whatever he wants to do no matter what. This has some drawbacks and some advantages but I'd consider the drawbacks of the other "plans" worse. So here's what it basicly does
And here's the thought behind why that's not bad, although the first phrase sounds bad: I think I'm just fine in figuring people out I know. I don't care wethe or not people like Kita+Gonzaw, Greymist or Mattchew get to do whatever they want, I will figure them out soon enough because I think I can get good reads on people I know in general. If let's say Greymist for example chooses to not attack at all and just block that's going to be ovious, same goes for everyone else. Also it's good information about the newer guys because they have to come up with something themselves and we everyone can check if what they say makes sense given their situation (being new for example). However, if we force people to attack all the same guy (Kita's plan) we lose explanations that would be given otherwise. You could probably still figure out the guys who have been playing here longer than the rest because those guys would probably be the ones leading the discussion but I'd have a huge problem figuring out someone who posts nothing and just sheeps one of us. If we force people to attack no matter what (S&B's plan) we force people to make bad decicions. I didn't like Supersoft telling people "shoot someone or I'll shoot you in 5 minutes" in Ace's game for a reason. People end up doing bad calls in those situations, ESPECIALLY if we're talking about townies, ESPECIALLY if we're talking about new townies. Again, I'd have a huge problem figuring out all the guys, but this time because I can see people doing mistakes way more often than usually because of that situation. The thing here is that a "do whatever you consider to be smart" strategy probably is nice for mafia the first 2 or 3 cycles because as mentioned they can do whatever they want, however we will hold people accountable for their actions and something like in mafia LV where we simply had to lynch into an entity of something like 10 unreadable guys won't happen again. In that game we had huge issues not because of strong mafia vets but because of a mass of unreadable new guys. If we tell the guys we consider to be hard to read because we don't know what's going on in their heads what to do no matter what we're giving ourselves a really hard time. We can figure out the vets no matter of strategy, but the other guys need to come up with at least SOMETHING theirselves so that we read them as well. I'll talk about my reads in another post because this one is already so big lol, although they havn't really changed. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
If we want to attack Zealos we need to come up with some plan because he has a shitton of stuff to block. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
because I asked people multiple times to stop talking about the set-up and start talking about posts. I did several posts were I mentioned a couple of posts you could talk about in case you don't consider something important. I get this as an answer about my question from him: On June 26 2012 02:01 GreYMisT wrote: If you need help with anything marc, just ask. I've been teaching magic to people for a long time. I'm not sure What you mean by "I like this post" (if it was sarcastic or what not). I think he just doesn't like my slivers which is incredibly dodgy and is either is complete unwillingness to talk about stuff or him not paying attention. After that I point that out here: + Show Spoiler [clicky!] + On June 26 2012 02:21 WereBugs-Go wrote: yeah but that again is talking about the set-up. Wether or not we should use spells or whatnot. We can't waste another day on talking about how we want to to stuff. I'd rather talk about who gets to be the target for what reason and than talk about how we're doing it. That's why I quoted that one post from Terra to talk about stuff like that. Why are you dodging this one? As I already said I like that one post for a reason. I want to know with what mindset you're playing this game and if you're looking for the same things I am looking for. Apparently the post I quoted did not catch your interest when it should have. He didn't say he dislikes your slivers. He asked why noone else has a problem with something that potentially makes a shitton of your monsters fliers. He's scared about that card of yours. Sure that could be a clever mafia tricking us but do you think a mafia would be scared about something like that? If he was he'd just take you out early on. This looks like a townie being scared to face someone with a shitton of fliers because he thinks he's not prepared for that in the way he'd like to. Or it's a mafia who thinks it's easy to get people on you with a cheap argument if people consider this dangerous as well. Why are you not paying attention to stuff like that? That's why I quoted it because I think it's a post people could have opinions about while all the other "let's talk about mechanics posts" are easy to do no matter of alignment. That post however is either townish influence or mafia influenced and people should be bound to have an opinion about stuff like that. and finally get this as answer: On June 26 2012 02:54 GreYMisT wrote: Why should his post concern me? I read it as someone, mafia or town, who is afraid of a shitton of flying creatures, which is a mechanic actually not seen alot in the standard play these days. In addition, Nova is running green, which traditionally does not have a lot of flying creatures unless he has spiders with reach. The fact is there are any number of reasons that a town player or a mafia player would react that way. What is important is to watch his actions. He has expressed concern over my future power, but hasnt commited to rallying people against me. because his post could be interpreted in so many different ways, including as scared comment from a old magic player familiar with slivers, I choose not to read too much into it until I have more information. In light of Nova's other posts he reads town to me at the moment. he is being a fairly positive communicator. Here is how I will be approaching this game, knowing I am a fairly big focus atm just due to my deck choice. I will play a sliver each turn if able, and I will not hold them back "for the good of the town". why? because think of it this way: by not playing slivers and just building my lands, Town does not know what powers I have in my hand, and it increases my potential of dropping 3 in one turn, surprising the town. I am against withholding information that could be useful to the town, so this is the way I will proceed. This is different than my stance on others deck claiming because deck claiming is not useful for people whose decks have not been revealed. Slivers, unfortunately, don't have much capability to help others, however I do have one in my deck that can. If I have the ability to play Cautery Sliver, I will above any other. I never asked wether or not the post concerns him. I said it's a nice post as in it could be interpreted in two ways so far although I was leaning town as it was the easier explanation. After I point out how he just dodged my question he answers this and it is a somewhat decent answer but he could have just said so in the first place when we're trying to start a conversation. There's no reason to hold back when we're having troubles to get a conversation starting and he's doing that. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On June 28 2012 05:43 Oberyn wrote:+ Show Spoiler [...] + Oberyn was attacked by the Mafia Creature and has taken 8 damage. Cool I can't summon creatures this round either....lol Mafia could just attack me directly and kill me this turn >_> + Show Spoiler [...] + But well first things first: ##Cast: Island On June 28 2012 00:25 Nova_Terra wrote: either he will lose them or he will lose health EHmm...I doubt he'd decide to lose health..specially if everybody attacks him at the same time (the spirit of the thread seems to imply that). So yeah, he'd most likely block, meaning that this turn would be lost. I could help with that with AEther Spellbomb for instance (I take away one of his monsters)....but that is town coordination which is exactly what I was saying we should do back in T1 (i.e it's not everybody doing things independently and doing whatever they want) lacking mana for a 4 mana thing or no creatures? You got attacked by mafia and if they attack you again you're on 2 HP right? That would give you one more turn to do something, so maybe it would be a good idea to give you mana if that helps. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On June 28 2012 05:51 Oberyn wrote: Well...I can summon, but I need 4 mana, and I only have 3 lands. I can summon a creature if someone lends me a mana.. ...I still don't know what to do though, since I'd like to have a spare blue mana, to use AEther Spellbomb in the Attack Phase. same here. I'm still having a creature I could play for 3 mana but I only have 1 island left so I'd need 2 more mana to play it but you got shot so I could give you my mana as well. I have an aether spellbomb in play as well but I'm not really planning on using it this very turn for a reason So if I can't play that creature (getting 2 mana is prooobably pretty unlikely :p ) I'm not going to use that island and could spare it. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
That's the issue right now | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
I'm talking about my + Show Spoiler [Myr Enforcer] + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/wUEFu.jpg) Casting a myr that an artifact that costs 1 mana doesn't "cost" me a thing because it gets cheaper for every artifact. Yes Greymist asked me if I'm running affinities, I said "not exactly" because I'm running on myrs although 2 of my cards in my deck have affinites. As you can see I spend 2 mana but kind of got 2 mana that way as well, considering the enforcer because I can't play anything else anyways. That's why I casted both the myr and the spellbomb costing 1 mana each. That way I'm "preserving" my mana for the next round in lowering the cost for the next one and that's why I don't really want to sacrifice the spellbomb this turn. Not sure what to make of the 8/8 creature yet... Yes it would be incredible strong but playing several weaker (2/2, 3/3, 4/4 I could for example play a 4/4 for 3 mana which is incredible mana efficient) creatures would work the same way while distributing the power a little better. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
+ Show Spoiler [clicky] + On June 28 2012 07:41 WereBugs-Go wrote: Btw the reason I played a 1 mana myr and the spellbomb instead of something else is because I'd need one more mana for my other myr I could play. I'm talking about my + Show Spoiler [Myr Enforcer] + Casting a myr or an artifact that costs 1 mana doesn't "cost" me a thing because it gets cheaper for every artifact. Yes Greymist asked me if I'm running affinities, I said "not exactly" because I'm running on myrs although 2 of my cards in my deck have affinites. As you can see I spend 2 mana but kind of got 2 mana that way as well, considering the enforcer because I can't play anything else anyways. That's why I casted both the myr and the spellbomb costing 1 mana each. That way I'm "preserving" my mana for the next round in lowering the cost for the next one and that's why I don't really want to sacrifice the spellbomb this turn. Not sure what to make of the 8/8 creature yet... Yes it would be incredible strong but playing several weaker (2/2, 3/3, 4/4 I could for example play a 4/4 for 3 mana which is incredible mana efficient) creatures would work the same way while distributing the power a little better. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
Nova can get a 8/8 creature with trample with 6 mana additional mana You can get a 8/8 creature with trample with 4 more mana (10 in total) I could get a 4/4 creature without trample with 2 mana (12 in total). Obviously the trample makes it awesome but if we could get 3 4/4 creatures like mine that'd be basicly 12/12 spread on 3 creatures. That's why I said mine is manaefficient but I'm probably the only one with something like that :p However, we prooobably need mafias help to get this going. Yeah they can't just say nah because that'd out them but idk if we can make this happen. We need to talk this trough and what we're doing if people don't stick to the plan because one guy jeopardizing it could be the end to both 8/8 creatures. I think playing several smaller creatures is better than having one big 8/8 creature with trample but having 2 8/8 creatures with trample, especially if the 2nd is as fucking mana efficient as what you've linked would be waaaay better. So I'd say if we're going for it we're going for both 8/8 creatures, if we can't get that happen I don't really like it that much. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On June 28 2012 08:07 Oberyn wrote: Well...Greymist doesn't have any lands left...so I don't see why we would need scum's help >_> <_< Although being serious, I can't see anyone other than Zealos (if he's scum) completely object with this plan if EVERYBODY else agrees with it (those that give land of course). By the way I planned it up there, Zealos can only object to ME having the "Cloned" 8/8 beast, not Nova having it. If everybody except him agrees....we can threaten to use Nova's beast on him if he doesn't. Yes, we should discuss it all we want, as much as we can. We have all the time in the world, we don't need to rush. But like I said, nobody should play anything yet because if they do we lose the chance of getting these 2 8/8 beasts out completely (even if they cast a spell with 1 mana cost). Also WBG, what do you think of Grey? I think he may be scum, please give me your opinion on this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=345422¤tpage=21#405 And this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=345422¤tpage=21#419 Specially because Greymist already tapped ALL his lands as soon as the turn started, which seems quite a coincidence taking into account the global enchantment we have today I already said I'd like to attack Greymist the most :p I find the lack of trying to do something way more suspicious than what you said but yes I agree in general. This zealos thing looks like someone trying to blend in. But above all I really don't like the fact that he's not telling us a thing about his reads and if he has any. Yes there was that "I'd be willing to attack Zealos" without an explanation but other than that nothing in general when he apparently thought about things. The quote I had from Nova apparently made him think about it as well, yet he wasn't willing to share his thoughts when I asked him about it for the sake of starting a conversation or he simply only started to think about it AFTER I told him that it's an interesting post. He isn't mentioning a thing at all. People COULD have been talking about you and your complete focus on the mechanics this game as well. I mentioned that and said that I've got something to say about that as well but I'd rather hear what other people think about it because frankly for me that was a null after BangBang, yet I would have thought other people might have considered it strange. He never mentioned fulla or what he thinks about him. No comment on Zealos or Mattchew, who both didn't post a lot early on either. That's ALL stuff he could have had an opinion on or AT LEAST used to get a conversation starting. D1 conversations are always weird because noone knows what to talk about other than the weather and the set-up but you have to get off those topics eventually and you do that by talking about small things that probably are nothing but might be something. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
Oberyn COULD be mafia targeting himself. In fact LV and the disaster with marv is the reason I'd rather have 3 middle-strong creatures than one big creature. The posts gonzaw is doing are making me think he's town but the posts Kita did are giving me a null. However here's the thing: If Oberyin has a 8/8 creature with trample, got half killed on n1 by mafia and isn't dead pretty soon we're prooobably not going to have a hard time figuring him out either ways. I doubt mafia will let him life for wifom if he's controlling a 8/8 trample thing while being a hydra, while being town, if he really is town. I'm just thinking about wether or not that thing could bring us into a nearly unwinnable or even unwinnable situation if the worst case really ends up being the case. But I don't think it'd be to a towndefeat even if Oberyn or Nova are mafia due to my Spellbomb. Same goes for Oberyns Spellbomb in the very likely case of him being town and us completly derping about Nova. But 2 8/8 creatures is a big deal, especially if we're getting them so cheap. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
1) It's a onetime only thing. That creature gets sacrificed the next turn no matter what if I understood it correctly, so it's a onetime hit only instead of something "steady" like the two other 8/8 beasts 2) Fulla is still very much on my radar for being a possible scum. Right now I'd say Grey + Zealos are the two guys I'd consider to be the most scummy on their own. I'd consider the read on Grey good, the one on Zealos is decent but not awesome. If we're wrong on him someone like Matt or Fulla might end up being the 2nd mafia as well. Especially considering how Grey said he's willing to attack Zealos. Yeah that could be mafia "bussing" each other because there's not much in play to attack at this phase anyways but it makes me wonder. About attacking this turn When I said I am willing to attack Greymist I said that under the impression that we've got a spare AEther Spellbomb we could use. As mentioned, if I lose an artifact this turn I can't play something next turn unless I draw a land (or better artifact land ^^) which is kind of a big if. I thought that Oberyin or I am going to use an AEther spellbomb to get rid of that 2/2 creature of Greymist so we can attack safe. This is no longer the case because we need our Spellbombs as backup for the green creatures. I'm at least not willing to use them this turn. And because I already claimed I have a myr enforcer I consider it quite likely that my creature would end up being blocked by the 2/2 thing... About my Myr Enforcer: No speciality to be found there: It's a 4/4 creature that costs [7 - (number of artifacts in your control)]. As I have 4 artifacts in control that makes it cost 3 in total and I have exactly 3 lands in play without a land on my hand... It's a myr however, so they get stronger the moment I start drawing cards... I'm also having a PRETTY nice card on my hand as well, not for dealing damage though. More for safety reasons as a backup for the spellbombs. Can't play it because it needs 4 mana though. I might not even play my myr enforcer if I really draw a land next turn. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On June 29 2012 03:31 Nova_Terra wrote: 1. I'd be attacking Zealos preferably 2. cause theres aether spellbombs and Obyren and myself are town Well the 2nd point is bullshit. Yes I've got a townread on Obe and I'm pretty sure he's town. That's "pretty sure" not "he is town". Yes I've got a slight townread on you and I think you are town. That's "you're more likely to be town than mafia" not "you are town". It IS a risk, that's the reason we're talking about it instead of just doing it. The point is that the risks are somewhat low and the advantages are pretty awesome. That's the reason we're even considering it, because the advantages outweight the risks. The risks are low because of the Spellbombs and because we have those townreads on mostly oberyn so far, but saying it's good no matter what (that's what that post looks like) is just wrong. Zealos has a point in general although it's a point that I'd consider paranoid right now. The general idea to not be just sheeping and agree to it without a second of a doubt is something that actually makes me think we should rather shoot Greymist than Zealos. Having doubts is not something that is scummy in general when the plan is to give two 8/8 creatures to people. I'd still not like to give mana to fulla. I don't think he's readable yet. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On June 29 2012 04:31 GreYMisT wrote: [...]I am also worried about WBG, and none of you seem to be either. Not only did he lie about his deck not being affinity for artifacts, but he has been hopping on and off the lets kill GreYMisT train. First saying lets do it if with have a spare bomb, and then saying lets just shoot him first. Its not much but its enough to gain my attention. [...] Wat? I was the first guy to "fos" you. I was the first guy who said I'd be willing to shoot you. When asked if I am running affinity I answered: I said "not exactly". I did not say "no" and I did not say "yes" for a reason. I said "not exactly" because I'm running a myr deck and not an affinity deck in general. That is the only myr I've got that has affinities for artifacts and I said I only have 2 different cards in this deck that have affinities, one of those cards is my Myr Enforcer. How did I lie about this at all? I did not want to claim the deck at this point because I didn't want to give hints at wether or not mafia should shoot early on or later on. Everyone actually reading my posts should have realized that "not exactly" means something like "yeah I have 1 or 2 cards with affinities but I'm not running them in general". | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On June 29 2012 04:46 GreYMisT wrote: Usually when you see artifact lands and myr enforcer that spells affinity, my mistake. Yeah it is an affinity card but the reason it's in my deck is because it's a medium myr and not because of the affinity. I'm not having a shitton of affinity cards. I'm having 2. The 2nd isn't in my deck because of it's affinity either but because of something else. Again, I said "not exactly" because I don't consider a deck with 2 cards with affinity running affinity, especially not if they're in my deck for completly different reasons. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
I want to know who plays what, who gets mana from whom, if we're having mana left and what we're doing with that mana because I'm sure as hell not going to give fulla my mana when he's one of the alternatives for my mafiareads. We have 2 people who played lands if I remember correctly. I'm checking the board to see what we've got, give me a sec. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
Nova needs FF+6 Gonzaw needs I+3 left: Grey : 0 ---0 S&B : 0 ---0 Zealos: 1 + (2) ---1 Obe : II ---0 Nova : FF ---0 Matt : 2 ---1 WBG : 1 ---0 Fulla : MMM ---1 Prom : 3 ---1 Nova gets: FF (nova) + 6 (obe (1) + Matt (1) + Prom (2) + Fulla (2)) obe gets: I (obe) + 3 (WBG (1) + Zealos(2) ) Still left: 4 Zealos (1) Matt (1) Fulla (1) Prom (1)) Why don't we leave an island for obe untapped in case we want to use the spellbomb for whatever reason or is the board-thread for obe updated? I took it he had 1 tapped island, tapped his 2nd for giving mana away and needs the third for casting the clone. Also S&B's 3 swamps need to be tapped in the thread Also that leaves us with 4 mana left over or even 5 if Obe really has only one tapped island. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
Gonzaw asked for heals after being attacked. Nova said he's not having luck drawing cards and might end up getting something the next turn. He then proceeds to search his library for that 8/8 trample thing that he knows he can't play in the near future by himself unless something weird happens. Something weird happens and he's able to cast it with our help. I'm just a little scared that's no coicidence. If I were Nova I probably would have searched for something like: + Show Spoiler [this] + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/6Duy0.jpg) to play it on my own this very turn instead of getting an 8/8 creature I can't even play until lategame until everyone else helps me. That's what's bothering me with Nova. Yes his posts in general are giving me a townvibe but that move looked weird, but we can't give Obe that 8/8 creature unless Nova plays it. Just to make it sure. I will spellbomb that thing if you do something fishy. I don't mind you attacking Zealos or Greymist. I want you to and you pick who it's going to be out of those 2 but the moment we get some bullshit like "herpaderpa I'ma going to attack Fulla instead as a policy lynch for not doing something" I will spellbomb that thing. That's also the reason I don't want Fulla to get mana. I'm waiting and waiting, giving people chances to contribute something themselves (I'm looking at you Greymist) without just blabbering about something someone else already said and nothing's happening. But if Fulla ended up jeopardizing something like I just said I don't want to see happening with Nova, that's almost a mafia claim for every one else in the game. However I could see a terrible shitstorm forming if that were to happen because of people yelling "lyyynch him" and other people yelling "nana, he's just a noob who did a mistake, give him more time!". I don't want to get him in that position of power when we're not sure about him and he is somewhat likely to screw up as both town and mafia. At least that's my take on his "skill" so far, giving him the perfect excuse to do it as mafia if he really is mafia. Anyways am gone for a couple of hours. Probably won't be in here until something like 2 hours prior to the deadline because I'm playing a tournament today. I will attack Greymist if that 2/2 creature of his is out of the way. I don't care about the 1/1 thing myself but you might. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On June 29 2012 23:57 Nova_Terra wrote: Also i do want to draw attention to fulla. Not negative attention actually; i think hes town. There is no way that revealing his sick damage spells would benefit scum; scum would definitely hide them. Instead, Fulla is trying to get mana so they can be used from our direction. No way scum would do that. Furthermore im starting to get newbie town vibes from him, which is good. Not really sure on it. You say it looks townish that he's announcing his dmg spells. He has a red deck and everyone knows he has dmg spells in there. Yeah announcing your dmg spells looks good but do you really think a mafia would not do that? Do you think a mafia would just outright play them without telling us before? I'd say a mafia would do the exact same thing because just playing something that deals massive amounts of damage without telling us is basicly claiming mafia and therefore he has to announce it either way. On June 29 2012 22:06 Fulla wrote: @Were you say you're a bit weary of Nova, but don't want me to have anything? But would it not be far wiser for the power distribution to be fairly evenly spread? Right now Obe will be dead soon, and Nova will have an 8/8 creature, should he turn out scum and some of us have nothing, we're screwed. Say for example it turns out Grey and Nova are actually the scum, we'd have a powerful sliver deck with a town pumped up elf deck. In 2-3 turns after Obe is gone could we stop them? Especially if Zealos is in fact innocent and wiped out by us. Along with the unblockable Mafia Beast we'll get crushed easy, So I'll feel far more safer with us all having Can I get 2 mana back please to cast Electropence. Atleast then I have something. Whats everyone else's thoughts on this? Electropence is not really helping you right now. You have 3 lands in total and you have to pay 3 mana + cost of a creature to even use it. Right now that thing is useles both for you and for us unless we get another mana-boosting global so that we can push you to something like 6 or 7 mana so that you can pay both the electropen cost and the cost of your next creature (I only know of that 3mountain creature). I'd say we should try to get a "steady" creature out with out mana left on someone who's name is not Greymist, Zealos, Nova or Obe. I'd actually also be willing to give mana to S&B or Matt as well if they get a plain 1/1, 2/2 or 3/3 creature out that way to spread things out a little as you said. Even if one of them is mafia and we're wrong on Zealos, who cares about that one small creature and they can't all be mafia after all :p I wouldn't mind giving you mana for a normal creture either but a dmg burst creature that only lasts one round doesn't sound like the best move right now when we already got two 8/8 creatures. I know I can play a plain 4/4 creature for 3 colorless mana. Matt said somewhere that he could play a goblin with some mana if I remember correctly. Was that colorless mana as well or mountains needed? If someone else got someone useful we could do with the 3 mana we've left come out and tell us. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On June 30 2012 00:49 Oberyn wrote: To be honest I get the feeling that Zealos is townie.....but meh it's a gut feeling and because Grey and S&B seem scummier than him in my opinion. Him refusing to give me the mana is not helping (hell, him giving me mana is not even that necessary since I can already summon the 8/8 beast, the mana is so I can have an untapped Island to use AEther Spellbomb in the Attack phase if necessary) @Zealos: I can already summon the 8/8 beast without your help, you giving me mana will only make me able to cast the Spellbomb. Do you agree about me being able to use the Spellbomb or not? That's what you will be doing by giving me mana, so think about it Actually we don't need the spellbomb this very turn. We're keeping the spellbombs for dealing with those 8/8 creatures or something else pretty strong. Those 2 can't attack this turn so you won't use your spellbomb anyways and using it on a 1/1 creature is simply wasted. Matt can attack me for one damage if that's what he needs. The Harrier should be used for the 2/2 creature so that we can attack Grey I guess. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On June 30 2012 01:09 Oberyn wrote: I forgot I had this card in my hand, and I think it could be useful (instead of using the Spellbomb) ![[image loading]](http://mtg.neoseeker.com/w/i/mtg/thumb/d/d1/Chain_of_Vapor_ON.jpg/223px-Chain_of_Vapor_ON.jpg) I didn't say anything about it because I don't understand what it does lol! It says it returns a "non-land permanent" to someone's hand (like the Spellbomb) but then there's a weird bit about sacrificing a land and "copying" the spell and "choosing a target" and I don't know what it means. If I use this on Greymist's 2/2 monster.....what happens? If you use that on Greymist he can choose to sacrifice one of his lands and can thus copy your spell on another target, for example novas 8/8 creature therefore returning it to novas hand rendering 8 mana we used this turn useless. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
That means he needs his plains. That means we have 1 mountain left from Fulla making 2. Is Player name: Zealos Board: Swamp, City of Brass, City of Brass [all 3 untapped] | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On June 30 2012 01:20 WereBugs-Go wrote: Still, Promethelax needs to start tapping that 2/2 creature Greymist is controlling... That means he needs his plains. That means we have 1 mountain left from Fulla making it 1 lands left in total other than Zealos lands. Is up to date? | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On June 30 2012 01:21 Oberyn wrote: You know, Grey can kill our 8/8 beast as well with: He has 3 lands out, so he can destroy one of the 8/8 beasts each turn (although it would be considered a scum claim). Well....although in the very off chance Grey is town and Nova scum it could be another "fail-safe" plan to destroy Nova's beast (other than my and WBG's spellbomb) I have more things to deal with the 8/8 creatures even in case of of the failure of the spellbombs for some reason :p About your S&B + Fulla + Zealos post: First of all, Zealos is the guy who has 3 untapped lands a couple of hours prior to the deadline, so I'd consider that pretty unhelpful and pretty unopen as well. I get what you're talking about when talking about Fulla and I agree in general. The timing of S&B's tapping looked the most weird. While Greymist tapped everything and said he's playing his style no matter what pretty early. S&B did that AFTER he knew what was going on. But I'd say Zealos looks equally bad right now considering he's not willing to help us because he doesn't want to lose lousy HP. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
Fulla has 1 (not getting into the other thread for whatever reason) and Obe has how much left? I still don't think you'll need the island at all because you don''t want to cast the spellbomb today eather way. Nor do you want to cast that spell of yours. I'm not really feeling like changing everything 2,5 hours prior to the deadline when I am waiting something like 70 hours for people to start a conversation on something and only NOW something's starting. So I don't even care about what was posted most recently... | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On June 30 2012 04:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Since there were some things unclear about the blocking phase: After thinking about it, activated abilities on creatures will still work during the block phase. I would however much appreciate it if you announced them as soon as possible so people have a chance to respond. Though waiting until the deadline is allowed, it is considered uncourteous and I will delay moving to the main phase by 15 minutes should something come in at the last second. If there are any complaints about this change, please PM them to me rather than discussing it in thread. Fulla said he can't post in the other thread for whatever reason and asked people to quote what he said in here in the other thread. Gonzaw did that but we're not sure if that's possible. Is it? | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On June 30 2012 02:39 Fulla wrote: I can't get Into the other thread guys. Could someone please post this for me? ##tap mountain. ##Cast helpfulness. ##Give mana to obe 2) On June 30 2012 04:01 Oberyn wrote: ##Use (3 colorless mana), Cast Helpfulness x 3, Target: WereBugs-Go 3) On June 30 2012 04:04 WereBugs-Go wrote: ##Use: (3 colorless mana) ##Cast: Myr Enforcer In case it's possible | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On June 30 2012 08:37 GreYMisT wrote: I have marked Zealos for death by slivers. Would you mind marking me for death as well? That way I might survive a little longer if you somehow turn out to be town. On June 30 2012 08:19 Mattchew wrote: I already did. Greymist has posted EXTREMELY openly throughout this entire game. Do you see him lying anywhere or withholding info? Because I don't. Yes he wants to kill everyone, but Palmar does too as town, so I don't think this is a bad town strat. Yeah but he never posted something of importance or a read until we forced him 70hours nonstop. Greymist knows better than this. He's not some guy like fulla who might or might now know how to play the game. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On June 30 2012 09:55 strongandbig wrote: Hey Marv What do you think of Gonzaw and Greymist? Haven't seen marv in 3 days The only post he did is that one when he said "I don't have a clue what's going on" and that's it. So much for my not talking training. I guess it's kinda hard to do something when you don't know the game and everybody keeps talking about the mechanics of this game. also ##I'm attacking Greymist | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
Is this supposed to be some wifom because they couldn't kill gonzaw and didn't want to attack me / Nova because that'd confirm me or because it would confirm nova (either way lol)? I can't think of this being effective unless we screw up big time. I'd say either way, this is supposed to confuse us SOMEHOW. Therefore I'd say we don't talk / think about that at all. Surely mafia wants us to talk / think about it for some reason. We're given a free circle. Let's use that circle without even getting into wifom. If someone else already said something like that sorry. I'm just now catching up. Also I have to kill one of my monsters... I'm still not drawing lands and if I kill one I can draw to more cards. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On July 01 2012 08:56 Fulla wrote: I'm willing to just drop it. But I'm really looking at the people who weren't active past 24 hours. How does the mafia attack work? Do both players need to agree? Or or is only one designated at the controller? That person but pm you?G usually it's "one of mafia has to PM a host" and it's enough. At least that's how KP in normal games work, you don't need to get to the same conclusion as mafia. So even if they would argue and have different opinions on their target they would have send in something and that way someone would have get shot. Probably Artanis would have made some call to decide it like "whoever pm'ed me first get's to make the decision" but as we don't have KP noone pm'ed something at all. Either Mafia is retarded and forgot about it although they had full 24hours or they did that on purpose to confuse us. Either way we don't get something out of it because if they forgot about it that's a nulltell (could be something like "duuuude. I thought you send the kill in like you did last night"). Or they did it on purpose and want us to talk about it. Therefore I'd say we drop it and be happy about it. I have two different explanations for it as well but it's feeling incredible paranoid at this time and as mentioned I don't think it's wise to talk wifom when there's roughly a 50% chance they want us to talk wifom in the first place. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
I'm having another anti-rogue 8/8-trample-thingie-card on my hand in case I get another land and we have the spellbomb from gonzaw. Thoughts?... I can't really do shit if I stay on 3 lands nonstop. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
Sorry... was about to do a couple of PM's for SSB mafia :p Quoting this for the sake of having everything in the same filter. On July 01 2012 09:35 Toadesstern wrote: yeah that's the thing I'm considering right now... I've got 2 more explanations as well, while one of them is pretty unlikely. 1) You are mafia. However I think mafia (including you in this case) would have shot nova in that case anyways and said something like "well they probably didn't shoot me [Obe] to kill me [Obe] in one hit the next cycle" (8+12 dmg rather than 8+10). Unless of course they want us to wifom. That's the one that I consider the most unlikely of all the explanations I can think of, although it's possible because frankly I don't think mafia would waste a hit like that when we'll still consider you scummy if you survive tomorrow. 2) It's a weird attempt to cause wifom to safe Greymist somehow like "see they didn't shoot WBG / Obe / Nova, there's GOT to be a mafia in there" The problem here is as mentioned if they simply forgot it there is no info to be found anyways. If they did that on purpose they want us to discuss it for some reason but there's a lot of possible explanations. Some of those explanations would be acts of desperation (saving Greymist), some would mean they were not able to shoot into Nova / me because they feared that would give away information (shooting me when nova is the guy with an 8/8 trample thingie for example) and therefore makes one of our townreads mafia and some are just complete random. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
The only purpose of that was to cast doubt on us and therefore start the "maybe we should lynch someone else/someone else first" discussion. I'm going to attack Greymist this turn and I hope people do the same. The worst we can do is change everything we've got, because although we don't know why exactly mafia did not shoot we can be sure they did it for some reason. Therefore I'm not letting it influence me and I'll just do what I was going to do before that happened => attacking Greymist. Once he flipped red we can talk about what scenario makes sense and who could be the 2nd mafia. If we have a guy or two who are most likely going to flip mafia and a shitton of other possible solutions for the 2nd mafia we "lynch" into the guy we're sure on, not the 2nd guy that might be mafia because it makes sense considering the connections between those two if the first is mafia. We're not lynching for "connections" unless we have a flip. It's simple as that. Again Greymist, Kita and I are the vets in this game. Lynching Grey makes sense from a mafia-Balance point of view. Lynching Grey makes sense from a MTG-Balance point of view. Lynching Grey makes sense from a "what happened in this game" point of view. So even if you don't think he's more scummy than people like Zealos or Matt or whoever else this should be something to consider. If a guy like Grey is considered to be equally scummy like a guy like Zealos that's way more telling for Grey because he knows how to play the game and shouldn't be considered scummy in the first place unless of course there is a reason to appear scummy (like being scum for example?) We're not lynching for stupid behavior unless we know the guy is smart. Greymist is smart and he's behaving completly anti-town. Now don't give me that "well would a mafia do that? I don't think so" shit because yeah a mafia would / could do that as well as a last resort of a defence and Greymist was under a lot of pressure from the very beginning. It started with a little pressure, reaction fishing and stuff from me d1 to see what's going to happen and to finally start a conversation but his answeres were so bad other people realized that as well, even before I started explaining what I did on d2. Again, Greymist knows how to play mafia and he knows how to play MTG (apparently), yet he's the one guy that refused to do something at all. Sure Fulla and Zealos for example did the very same but as mentioned (I'm quoting myself here): We're not lynching for stupid behavior unless we know the guy is smart. and I can't be sure wether or not Fulla and Zealos are smart and know how to play mafia at all.Greymist does know how to play the game and he completly refuses to do so. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On July 01 2012 21:33 Nova_Terra wrote: Also zealos is town, no way he woulda told us to move past the night kill first as scum (at least if I'm town) Are you talking about that post over here from page 47: On July 01 2012 10:48 Zealos wrote: I'm really inclined to say ignore the non-shot and continue as normal. Presuming the missing shot was deliberate, it was designed to cause chaos. Lets not let it. Because I did this post on page 46: On July 01 2012 08:51 WereBugs-Go wrote: wtf happened? oO Is this supposed to be some wifom because they couldn't kill gonzaw and didn't want to attack me / Nova because that'd confirm me or because it would confirm nova (either way lol)? I can't think of this being effective unless we screw up big time. I'd say either way, this is supposed to confuse us SOMEHOW. Therefore I'd say we don't talk / think about that at all. Surely mafia wants us to talk / think about it for some reason. We're given a free circle. Let's use that circle without even getting into wifom. If someone else already said something like that sorry. I'm just now catching up. Also I have to kill one of my monsters... I'm still not drawing lands and if I kill one I can draw to more cards. Does your "I guess that confirms Zealos" argument still hold anything of value? | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On July 01 2012 22:04 Fulla wrote: @Were I am actually experienced in mafia and would say I'm good. That's up to you to decide ofcourse Forum based is very to me thou. I can barely keep up with the amount obe posts let alone everyone else. When you play it online in real time it becomes 90% trolling and laying low to stay alive. I'm trying to adapt and speak more. Bare with me :-) did you try to stay low to stay alive? That sounds like a mafia strategy in real time mafia and you're trying to change that? Or is it a general strategy that townies do as well? oO | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On July 02 2012 00:05 Nova_Terra wrote: Guys i can play giant growth as well as my rootwallas ability, Should i cast it on Oberyns avatar so nobody goes OMFG NOVA SO STRONK? I don't know, you tell me. Obe is the guy who is telling people that you're mafia and from what I see he'd rather attack you than Greymist. And you want to buff him? Don't forget the global card this turn: Noone can block, so the trample is completly wayne because even if you boost a 1/1 creature that creature will do it's dmg this turn and will do it's +dmg from your giants growth as obes 8/8 creature would do. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
This shot is troublesome for the Nova, Obe and myself as we're doubting our townreads because we're asking ourselfes "why didn't they shoot at least one of Nova+WBG" and I think that's the purpose of this no-shot. I'm talking about this because of Obe's case on Nova. I think it is somewhat weak, Nova might or might not end up being mafia but I think this only started because of the no-shot, so here we go:
Those conclusions are logical and they should come to my / Novas / Gonzaws mind instantly. I can see Obe thought of it as he clearly thinks Nova is mafia right now. I know I thought about it as well but didn't mention it because I didn't want to start the wifom-talk and Nova either was as smart as I am or he didn't realize it. Funny thing is: It's again a reason to attack Greymist. This no-shot does nothing but casting doubt between us 3 while it has nothing to do with Greymist. It pushes us into thinking "well that means this guy HAS to be mafia" and I think that's what's going on. If Greymist somehow magically flips town, fine we can talk about this and one of us 3 has to be mafia but right now I'd say mafia did something unlogically (not shooting) to push us into trying to figure out what could be the most logical solution to this problem, thus defending Greymist by mislynching into one of our townreads because of that no-shot. This is all way to convenient to be true. There is a shitton of "information" we could get from that no-shot but only one explanation can be true. A lot of it is stuff like "well that guy has to be mafia then I guess" but I can't think of a scenario that involves Greymist. We're killing Greymist today and killing the 2nd mafia tomorrow. If Greymist somehow really flips town we're searching for mafia in Nov, Obe or myself but if Grey is really mafia the other 3 names are all town. That's it from me for a while. On my way to my place again and probably won't post something for the next 16 hours or something like that. Have to start SSB mafia later when I'm back (24:00 my time) and I won't have time to post in here between starting that game and sleeping I guess. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On July 02 2012 01:25 strongandbig wrote: Two things: 1. why couldn't mafia have thrown around the same amount of doubt by attacking a lurker or someone under suspicion? 2. It doesn't seem like Nova came to that same conclusion. Under your analysis what does that mean? They could have, but not shooting at all is a stronger "wtf just happened"-moment than shooting someone town didn't think would end up being shot. On July 02 2012 02:38 Nova_Terra wrote: WBG why do you come to the conclusion that if grey flips town one of me you or obe is scum? If Greymist ends up flipping town I doubt they would have not shot unless of course they really forgot about it. So far I'm sticking with: "As long as I think Grey is mafia and don't have something that tells me otherwise I'm pretty sure they tried to cast doubt." If Grey is SOMEHOW a townie there is no reason not to shoot into either you or me unless one of us is mafia and mafia doesn't want to tell us which one of us is mafia. Picture the following situation: Obe dead and confirmed town by that point, Greymist dead and confirmed town, I got shot by mafia or am already dead because of mafia and confirmed town. What might that mean about you? You're looking bad, because mafia tried not to shoot me. Same goes the other way around. I don't think it's going to come to that situation because I'm pretty sure Greymist is mafia but I still thought about it. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
I'm usually trying to figure out players I know myself and try and figure out people I can't figure out by method of elimination. "I can't figure them out" can be a lot of things. Either someone lurking or someone I never played before or only barely played with him, like 1 game and the guy lurkers hardcore in that game. As you said I'm having a strong townread on you and a strong mafiaread on Greymist. I'm having a townread on nova in general although it's nowhere as strong a the on on you or the mafiaread on Grey. Fulla is giving me an incredible hard time to judge and frankly I'm worried that you're not worried. He's a complete null to me. I'd consider matt to be scummy but having problems to really stick with it. I saw him play in Holy Roman, he was mafia and dished out correct reads because he was all like "well guys, I'm telling them you are mafia because you're making it to obvious, I have to!" when in reality it wasn't obvious and just his confirmaton bias. When asked he wasn't able to explain why he thought the way he thought which should is a pretty strong mafiaread in general. I'm kind of seeing this this game again. No where as strong as in Holy Roman but I feel like he's having troubles explaining why he thinks the way he thinks for some reason. I need to read some town games of him first though. S&B looks somewhat scummy but mostly because he managed to make me think he's clearly town in the game (games?) we played as town together. I just got a weird feeling about him. That's what I'm talking about when talking about method of elimination. If Grey someone manages to flip town I'd say we're best to look into guys like that, or Matt, or Fulla or Nova. Zealos looks downright bad. He's really not doing a thing. He's not looking like the guy from LV (mafia) but he surely isn't looking like a townie either. I'd guess he'd change up as mafia after getting busted in LV so easily by Supersoft very early on just wouldn't try to do the same trick again. Again, one of those process of eliminition guys. I'm not really having anything on him that tells me to not attack that guy. Prom actually looks good. Yeah he's new and all but I'd rather put my money on him being town than on someone like Fulla. That being said I'd say I've got 3 mayor mafia reads so far: Greymist Mattchew Zealos If those are wrong I'd be willing to attack into someone like S&B or Fulla but not right now. The issue however is, that it needs to get more precise and I need those guys who are somewhere in the middle to do some analysis themselves. I'd like you to post less Obe, so far we're having a lot of posts from you and mostly people disagree or agree with you but it's maybe hard for the new guys to come up with something themselves if you're posting so much and pretty much everything's already said. I don't think the good looking guys need to post A LOT right now unless there's something really important. We need to improve our reads on the middle group and make it more precise and therefore we need them to do something themselves, without being influenced by us (mostly you) all the time or without them just repeating what was already said. Lean back a little, watch what's going to happen and do a post later on please. We really need those other guys to take over for the sake of making them better to read. There's really not much to read out of "yeah I agree with obe's plan, let's summon those 8/8 thingies" at all unless you already know who's got what alignment. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
Basicly it's this: I want to keep my island for safety reasons but noone can do something in attacking / blocking phase anyways, so I might as well use that 1 unused mana to get +1 damage If it's not possible, someone having a problem with me using it something like 15 minutes prior to deadline? | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On July 03 2012 01:32 Fulla wrote: What makes you suspicious of me Were? If you want I'll cast all my spells next turn on a voted target. kind of what Matt says. Yes I agree a newbie mafia would probably not be so open about what he has and what he can do / agree to working with people in an oopen way (like what you just said, the vote) so left alone I'd sa you're a townie but you could as well have a mafia buddy who's telling you what's okay to say and what's not. That's what's happening in mafia QTs a lot of times: New guys post a prewritten text, asking if they can post it and wether or not they should change it and the old guys tell them what to change or if it's bad idea to post it. Also I want to see you do something yourself and everyone else I mentioned as well. So saying "I could do whatever town wants me to do if we vote" isn't exactly helping. I want to see wether or not you're actually reading the thread and wether or not you're doing something on your own if people like Obe and myself stop talking for a while. Same goes for the other guys. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
Who is dealing those 15 damage with what monsters and what are we doing with the rest? I just tapped my glimmervoid for an Island. I will be using it either for my spellbomb or to equip my skullclamp (+1 damage) depending on wether or not I like what Nova is doing, so I'd like him to tell us what he's about to do ahead of time so I can decide on what to do. Not sure who's the best target for the rest of the damage. I've got mainly 2 reads that are somewhat decent and 2 people I wouldn't mind dying. What's your take on people guys? Who are you going to attack and why? I want to know exactly who is attacking with what monsters and what monsters are targetting whom. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On July 03 2012 07:54 Oberyn wrote: Nova forgot about using his Giant Growth so a 11+4 direct damage dealt to Grey is out of the question, so we need at least 3-4 creatures to attack. I can attack him with my 8/8, Fulla said he'd attack him with his 1/1 as well. We need to see who is willing to attack Grey alone (and not someone else) so we use their damage instead. Although the possibility of forcing them to attack someone else is there as well (for instance Fulla). I wouldn't mind attacks on these players: -Mattchew -Fulla -Zealos Maybe not killing them though (of course) but crippling their HP so they aren't at ~20 all game. Giant Growth is an instant. Instants like Giant Growth, equipping equipments or using abilities like my spellbomb are still doable in the attacking phase. I just acked about this a couple of hours ago. Well kind of. I asked it it's allowed for my spellbomb & skullclamp, I guess it's the same for instants. Yeah those 3 people you listed (matt, fulla, zealos) are 3 out of the 4 guys I wouldn't mind seeing dead. Matt and Zealos are somewhat scummy to me, Full is still a null at this point of time which is not a good sign although I'd rather see Matt and Zealos taking damage. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On July 03 2012 08:05 Oberyn wrote: There are no instants in this game, only sorceries. As far as I know you can only use abilities/effects from permanents in the Attack Phase Sux. So you're attacking Grey with 8 damage reducing him to 7 HP. I could toss my 4/4 myr in and make him a 5/3 myr reducing Grey to 2HP (in case I don't have to spellbomb) I could also toss my 1/2 hovermyr in, reducing him to 1HP. One more 1/1 thingie needed and Grey is dead. Any problems with that plan? That way we have the two guys looking good dealing the "obvious" damage while the rest finally starts doing something and has to start doing something themselves except for one other 1/1 creature. Whatever that might be. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On July 03 2012 08:27 Oberyn wrote: That seems fine. Also I want some people (zealos, Fulla) to attack someone else other than Grey by saying "Greymist is obvious scum I'm attacking him". Exactly my thoughts. You want to decide who ends up being the last 1 damage on Grey? I'm going to bed now and I don't feel like browsing through the other thread to look for something suitable to do that right now. That way I can just tap and attack like just mentioned tomorrow, you can just tap and attack like just mentioned tomorrow and we get to see what other people are doing without doding discussion. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On July 03 2012 17:26 Nova_Terra wrote: I'm doing 11 dmg to mattchew in the form of a rootwalla and my avatar. The fauna shaman can attack grey/s+b So Obe mentioned 3 names. I mentioned 4 names (the same + S&B) and you mentioned you said you'd like to attack Matt+S&B. We all heard enough about why they are doing nothing and are scummy and shit. I want to hear why you're not attacking Fulla or Zealos. Just for clarifications: I don't think the idea is bad, I'd probably either attack Zealos or Mattchew myself but I just want to hear reasoning on something we haven't talked over and over yet. So go ahead and tell me why Zealos and Fulla are looking more townish or at least less scummy than Matt + S&B. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
I went over Holy roman mafia again, the game I co-hosted with Caller and frankly I've got to say mattchew isn't anything like that and he was Mafia in that game. What mattchew did in Holy Roman:
The thing is: I don't see that happening this game. Yeah he's posting very little and that's making him scummy but I don't see him being scummy the way he usually ends up being scummy and he actually is delivering at least a tiny bit of insight, something he completly failed to do in holy roman. It's more of a risk.nuke scummy, a guy who refuses to do what he is told to do, instead doing his own thing, people consider it scummy and when lynching him for that he ends up flipping true random. So far mattchew is my #3 scumread after Greymist and Zealos but unless one of them flips town I don't really want to attack him yet. I'm also pretty sure that either Nova OR Greymist is mafia but not both at the same time and the fact that nova is so all about attacking mattchew out of nowhere is giving me the creeps right now. It comes down to this for me: Mafia #1: 99% either Nova or Greymist Mafia #2: 90% either Zealos, Matt or maybe Fulla. and it's getting all complicated. Greymist wants to attack Zealos, Nova wants to attack Matt and Matt wants to attack Fulla. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On July 04 2012 02:52 Oberyn wrote: [...] Is this because of the night kill? You think Grey "no-killed" as scum to create confusion to try and survive today; but if he's town the only reason there was no-kill is if Nova was scum? yeah. A no-kill because mafia forgot about it is possible as well but I don't take that for an explanation because that's really unlikely. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On July 04 2012 03:03 Zealos wrote: All I can think is that the no kill was designed to change /something/ or else they wouldn't have done it. So I say keep the same target as we had beforehand. That's one of the reasons we're sticking with Greymist. We still have other damage available though. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
Thing is I am really sure it's either Greymist or Nova for the first mafia spot. If it's Grey and he's dead, whatever, we're down one mafia without taking a lot of damage (noone but you got hit by KP, so it would be a 1v1 trate assuming you'll die today, which isn't that far fetched I guess). If Grey is town Nova is mafia and has a 8/8 creture with trample + a 12/1 creature that is unblockable. So reason being: If Grey is mafia we are in a very good spot even without novas 8/8 trample creature. If Grey is town we're screwed big time with Nova having that 8/8 trample creature. Also I told him to be clear early on on who he's attacking so I can equip my myr with the equipment rather than spellbombing some rogue creature doing something else. He said he likes to attack mattchew alright but he still hasn't done a thing about it. I can't see a thing in the other thread. Also he's from Switzerland, it's 21:00 local time over there and he hasn't shown up at all. I've got the feeling he might be dodging the thread. If you don't spellbomb his 8/8 creature I will do it myself when I'm done cooking. I really don't like Nova not doing a thing right now. Maybe that's paranoia because of the no-hit but as mentioned, even if it is and Grey flips red we're very much okay without Nova's creature after a 1v1 trade. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On July 04 2012 04:09 Oberyn wrote: If Grey is mafia cool Nova is most likely town and you guys will need a town 8/8 beast. If Grey is town and you fear Nova is scum Spellbomb it yourself next turn (you still have AEther Spellbomb). I won't spellbomb it now in case Grey flips scum, Nova is town and we just made a huge mistake that may cost us the game (well, if Grey flips scum it's unlikely, but still). There's no rush, at worst Nova will use it on Mattchew or something this turn (but you can still spellbomb it next turn) If mafia has both a 12/1 and an 8/8 creature there is reason to rush. If they don't we're fine playing the long game without the 8/8 creature because it's only one mafia left. Also as Artanis just told us mafia have to eliminate every single townie, they don't even win in a 1v1 situation because of endgame, which gives us another turn. We have plenty of time if Greymist flips red. Except for Nova noone is having a strong board right now (well and you, but you're most likely going to die today). If nova is mafia he could probably outright claim mafia and wipe the floor with us with 22 damage the next turn, 24 the turn after that and us having something like 6 damage tops per player. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On July 04 2012 04:16 Oberyn wrote: How many times do I have to repeat that you still have your Spellbomb in your board? Unless you think Nova has a "Remove Artifact from play" card and will use it as soon as D4 starts >_> Yeah I guess that's right... I just think it's going to be a shitton of mafia damage when we're wrong on Grey and we can't deal with that kind of thing. My 4/4 myr has no trample, even a single 1/1 creature could just block that and it's done. I just don't think we could kill mafia in time if Nova really turns out to be mafia AND keeps that 8/8 with trample. While I think we'd be in a great position either way if we spellbomb Nova. I guess you're right, waiting one cycle is not going to lose us the game, especially if mattchew isn't looking townish at all, he's just not the optimal target right now. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On July 04 2012 04:30 Oberyn wrote: Dude don't scare me like that, it makes me think that maybe you are scum trying to get both 8/8 town beasts (from a town Nova and a townie me once you kill me tonight) dead by next turn so your team (that most likely may not include Grey) wins more easily >_> If I were scum I'd either just spellbomb it myself or just chill and don't risk anything while you keep telling everyone how townish I am. You can believe me, I am scared about nova and that is all, that's why I asked you about it in the first place because nova STILL hasn't shown up although I told him to get in here early enough so I can choose wether to equip or spellbomb if the backfires us. If I were mafia I would just shut up about that and talk about different things. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
I take that as before. I asked him about wether or not I could use it during the attack or blocking phase to boost my damage by 1 and he said I can do it in the attackphase but not in the blockingphase so yeah it's going to be +1 damage before I attack greymist. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
The rest even dodged attacking in a no-blocking phase wtf is going on. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On July 04 2012 05:34 Nova_Terra wrote: Omfg I'm so sorry, my Internet went completely down earlier today and by the time I got to the nearest Internet cafe they were closed T_T then we got out the new router we had brought and we just fixed it now We should follow greymists reads and go over his filter This shit is easy. You are Mafia and Zealos is not leaving S&B or Mattchew for the last mafia spot. Greymist said we should kill Zealos. Why should we follow his reads instead of the other ones Oberyn gave? Where's the difference and why should we follow Greymist instead of someone else? Not that that makes you mafia, but can anyone believe that in a situation like this: Obe + Grey + WBG + Nova would do a no-kill on n2? Why not just hit Nova or me. There's no way this can be right. Nova's got to be mafia, that's why they didn't want to confirm shoot into either Nova or me because that would confirm the other guy. I'm sure as hell town, Obe just flipped town and so did Grey. That means you're mafia pal. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
because he just said "let's do what Greymist wanted to do". If I remember correctly Greymist was the guy attacking Zealos. I'll check filters later on and check if it makes sense given what they posted, but I think we've got something that is a nice town-tell for Zealos here and it's comming from a mafia. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On July 04 2012 06:23 Zealos wrote: WBG, how sure are you that Nova is scum? I already said, I don't consider Obe + Grey + WBG + Nova a possibility, especially after the no-shot because there was no reason to not shoot that day unless they wanted to protect either me or Nova from being figured out. I know I'm not mafia so that means Nova is mafia on top of everything that was already said about him. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On July 04 2012 06:30 Nova_Terra wrote: Wat I meant we should follow the logic Of his reads and see what they mean now, not blindly sheep them, srsly? Also what is this, why would scum shoot either of us instead of oberyn? Or am I misunderstanding something? Cause if that's what you mean you really need to think more Also I've been thinking from a perspective where all of us 4 were town and that makes perfect sense to me, why can't 4/9 players be town? Mafia shot Ober n1 Mafia shot noone n2 Mafia shot Obe n3 Why didn't they shoot either you or me n2 when we're both town? No point in hiding "confirmation" unless they want to protect someone. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On July 04 2012 08:36 Fulla wrote: Actually might be best to let him attack someone. Ugh got some thinking to do. I'd say having him on 3HP is just fine right now. Didn't think someone is able to dish out that much dmg lol :p No need to finish him just yet from your point of view. Yes you're right, either he is mafia or I am, I know I am not so I don't mind seeing him dead right now but from your point of view the town read on me could as well just be wrong, so you usually want to wait and see if he posts something when he's barely alive. With him being on 3 HP he knows he'll die either way. Mafias usually don't bother the stress of faking reads when it's going to be invain anyways because they're about to die. Townies usually end up posting some big walls of texts shortly before dying. So from your point of view you should wait and see what happens and either kill him 15 minutes prior to the deadline or kill me instead. Or tap his creatues and kill him in the attacking phase. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On July 04 2012 09:36 Fulla wrote: Were please tell me what do you think of Matt? You're probably going to die unless you have a heal, Nova is scum, that makes it [b]Nova+Matt considering how he punched you to the mafia KP treshhold. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On July 05 2012 01:47 Fulla wrote: I could instead inflict 10 damage to Matthew... or 3 to nova, 7 to Matthew. looks good to me. The 2nd one that is. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
I thought I am mafia because I am stupid. Mattchew is mafia because he hit Fulla down to 16HP. Zealos is mafia for shooting you down to 3HP and now Fulla is mafia too? Oh man, had I known this was a 4v5 set-up I would have played this totally different. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On July 05 2012 02:40 Fulla wrote: Were at first you urged me to not jump the gun and let him live? Now you're happy to see him die, what made you change? Well I still want you to wait and not shoot him just yet. We have 30 hours left. No need to waste them. I don't have a problem with you shooting him in general (a little later), that's why I said I wouldn't mind that. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
I thought that's the ongoing assumption by you at the moment. We're giving you time instead of insta-killing you 2 hours in the day to give you an oppertunity to dish out some reads. Seems like you're not interessted in doing so. All I see is people getting paranoid, saying I myself might be mafia who shot Obe & Grey because surely I was so super afraid of them telling everyone how much a townie I am that I was shooting Obe isntead of someone else and pushing for Greymists death instead of someone else. Yeah that makes perfect sense. Also Fulla and I said Mattchew is mafia for multiple reasons. Fulla mostly referring to Mattchew shooting him below the mafia KP threshold. You don't seem to disagree with that. If I remember correctly you think the same and wanted to attack Mattchew for a shitton of damage, didn't you? You just said You must [hate] your job as executioner then about Fulla. I'd say that looks like you think he's mafia as well or why would he be an executioner? How does that make sense with what was just said about Mattchew being mafia because he attacked Fulla ?And on top of that we have the guy who shot you, Zealos who surely got to be mafia as well according to you as you just singlehandedly reduced you to 3HP. That's a little too much red coloring for my point of view. Not to mention that it's not making sense at all. You're simply Mattchews buddy telling people he's mafia when you're down to 3HP and clearly dead no matter what, to make people doubt themselves and safe Mattchew. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On July 06 2012 20:11 strongandbig wrote: Umm ITS STILL ZEALOS YOU FOOLS imo anyway I guess it could also be fulla/wbg I need to talk some things over with my brother or whatever Yeah so anyway - WBG what do you have to say for yourself after your "there's no way we could all be green" thing? Just give me one reason why I should say such a thing as mafia? I'm bringing myself into 1v1 and we're both going to die if I was wrong no matter of alignment. The only reason to say something like that is when you're really convinced and I was really convinced it couldn't be us 4 all green... Just give me one reason why I should have shot Gonzaw of all the people as mafia? The guy kept telling people I'm town all the time. If I were mafia I would have GLADLY let him survive and would have attacked someone else n1 to begin with. This makes no sense, why should I attack the guy who is backing me up all the time and finish him off? Just give me one reason why I should have attacked Greymist openly? The guy, just like gonzaw, said I'm town and although I kept attacking him never changed his attitude on me, he kept on saying I'm probably retarded townie. Don't give me "mafia was afraid of his deck and that's why you wanted him dead". If mafia was afraid of his deck they would have killed with in 2 shots with their mafia-beast instead of dealing with him with those 1/1 creatures openly... I got fooled by this wifom play on d2... I need to reread things. I guess we're not having enough time for that though and Prom is already attack me for whatever reason, tapping my myr enforcer. Surely, tapping creatures so they can't attack is the way to go when we're dealing with a 14/1 mafiabeast that is not attackable nor blockable nor something else. This is a game of time right now and you're tapping my 5/3 creature so I can't attack? Why? I even announced I'll attack mattchew with my creatures, who you think to be mafia as well with that creature, so even if you believe I am mafia (for whatever reason): worst case scenario would be "Toad is mafia but is helping Town to get towncred by attacking Mattchew". Surely I see why you would try to avoid that [/sarcasm] So why don't you want that? Clearly it can't be a reason of blocking because I wouldn't block with my enforcer to begin with, mostly because it can't fly as you might have realized, so really the only purpose can be to make sure I can't attack. That being said I'm probably going to attack Prom with what I've got (1 Hovermyr, yeha...) | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On July 06 2012 23:37 Fulla wrote: Prom if you suspect Matt why don't you finish him off? Why go for WBG... Were same to you. super secret. Can explain tomorrow :3 | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
Both Fulla and Matt were at or below mafia treshhold and I figured either Matt or Fulla were going to be eliminated by mafia KP. I though it's more likely that Fulla is going to be attacked and Matt is the mafia but there was no need to attack with 1Power into either of those 2 when I thought it's very likely that mafia is going to help me decide on what to attack the next cycle anyways. However with Matt attacking Fulla head on and mafia attacking S&B it might be they think they're able to kill him without using the mafia beast and therefore went for S&B who will be very low now as well. That's why I attacked my 2nd mafia read rather than my 1st. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
If you're considering to play WoF I'm waiting those 24 hours though, maybe I get something damagy on my hand. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
You are probably going to die and S&B as well. I don't have damage that is done before the attack phase | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On July 07 2012 08:20 Fulla wrote: Our only hope is Zeal drawing a tendrils then. Or perhaps strong has something up his sleeves? WoF need 3 mana to cast. Tentrils needs 4 mana to cast. So he really would need something. We also need to figure out what to do with the global card. Clearly Zealos is the one to use it because he is the only one with HP left... but we need to split the damage or the targeted creature will just be tapped. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
If you use WoF he completly looses that creature because I bring it back to his hand -> he puts all cards to graveyard -> he draws 7 new cards and can't play it again. I'm saying that because as mentioned spellbombing one of mattchews goblins just isn't worth the fuzz ... | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On July 08 2012 00:59 strongandbig wrote: what about my plan to kill off the four of us who are already in range of the beast or else for the three of you to die and me to get killed by the beast? are you willing to pay a bunch of life to kill off mattchew? @mattchew if fulla is scum then great but i'm not convinced and we can't really afford to wait. Do you disagree with me that reducing this game to zealos vs prome is the best way for town to achieve victory? That plan is stupid. Why should we do the work mafia has to do themselves? Yes we would get into something like a 1v1 situation while the mafia beast can focus on Zealos. You have exactly one turn to kill someone with your plan and I don't think that's enough for Zealos to kill someone on his own except for those with low life. The very same plan works without killing 4 people as well. If we're not going to follow this plan of yours we're forcing mafia to kill those people like me somehow with a mafia-beast-hit which means one more cycle for Zealos to do his combo if we don't do your plan. If we follow your plan mafia will focus on Zealos and you've got exactly and only one cycle left to kill the mafia and I don't think that's possible with prom having 27HP. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On July 08 2012 01:21 Fulla wrote: Were, might be best to spellbomb, one of Matt's creatures. If I can stay alive just 1 more turn, with a fresh hand of 7 cards I can cast a few burns spells on Matt & Prom. Since Prom & Matt will both attack me together, I doubt I'll survive thou. That's my point. Spellbombing one of Matts goblins will prevent 1 damage you can block either way. Spellbombing proms legendary will prevents 3 damage from a flying creature that is unblockable even if you have flying. I don't see a reason to spellbomb a 1/1 goblin if I can just spellbomb that legendary thing which will end up helping you / us way more. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On July 08 2012 01:26 Zealos wrote: Ok, I'm gonna use WOF (Sorry Artanis <3)I'm also gonna use the Global as much as possible, and then decide who to attack this evening. Make sure to spread it at least a little bit. If you give +10/+0 to a single creature that can be easily countered. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
It could just tap the 10/2 creature... | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
Example -> Attackphase I want to attack Matt with my 2 Hovermyrs and I do so during the attackphase. Matt attacks S&B with stuff to kill him during the attackphase. -> Blockingphase S&B chooses to block 2 monsters to not die but also looses them resulting in everyone having to sacrifice 2 monsters. I have to sacrifice one of my hovermyr + my Myr Enforcer. Do both Hovermyrs damage against Matt or just one? | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On July 08 2012 19:03 Fulla wrote: The best thing we can do is: - Were - aether bombs, prom's Command Eesha & ether bombs 1 of Matt's warchiefs. - Strong you sacrifice all your creatures including your Husk onto it's self. So all 3 creatures. - Prom#s board will be wiped completely, Matt's almost wiped. Matt says hes going to attack me? He will probably attack you strong :/ Don't think there's anyway you can survive this. But atleast Zeal and Were can take down matt this turn as well. The beast will kill Were, then it's me and Zeal against Prom. I think Prom is too strong, but if I get burn cards and Zeal gets a lucky tendrils, we just might pull it off. Our only chance of winning. Were/Strong you up for that? If you have a better scenario please spit it out, we only have until tonight for the attack phase. I can't aether bomb anything anymore. I used my first aether bomb in cycle 2 in an attempt to finally draw a land and I had to use the 2nd one to get the harrier out of the way so that it can't tap the 10/2 creature... So no bombing Command Eesha & 1 of Matt's warchiefs, can't even bomb one of those, sadly. However if S&B really sacrifices all 4 creatures of his he completly wipe proms (and my own but I guess I'll be dead anyways) board as well. Prom only has 4 creatures and has to sacrifice 4 at the end of the attack phase so that means his command Eesha is gone as well, even without my spellbomb. As mentioned I can do 4 damage to Matt and I can attack Prom with my 6/5 myr this turn. I think Fulla is best to attack Prom with his 6/1 as well and the 10/2 creature can attack as well. That however means that we need S&B to deal 4 damage to Matt as well to kill him. If the board is completly wiped (and it will be for everyone having 4 or less monsters in play) that means we can deal the damage without having to worry about blockers. Prom only has 4 creatures so 100% of the damage will go trough. That's at least 6 from my myr and probably 16 more from fulla + zealos which means Prom will be reduced to 5 HP. So what's going to happen with this board-wipe is this: I am going to be dead because of mafia beast. Zealos will have 18HP. Prom will have 5HP. Matt will be dead (if S&B manages to get 4 damage on him) S&B will be dead (with no blockers matt can kill either him or Fulla I guess?) Fulla will be dead (with not blockers matt can kill either him or S&B I guess?) | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On July 08 2012 22:20 strongandbig wrote: I don't understand how you guys can be so sure that matt and prome are the scum team. Like, I agree that they're pretty likely, but I think wbg/zealos are just as likely now that zealos derped his way to using up the board card before we could really discuss my plan or force someone scummy to use it. That's why I wanted to guarantee a mass death with my plan. We still don't have a single scum flip to go on, so now we're reduced to guessing at entire scum teams. Actually now that Zealos has saved wbg from having to use the board card, I think there may be no way a zealos/wbg scum team can lose. But I guess I already resigned myself to the fact that we lose if zealos is scum and I'll just have to be happy with my "I told you so" dance when that happens. WBG your "I am going to be dead because of the mafia beast" inspires absolutely zero confidence in me. Last time someone said that it was Fulla, and the mafia beast attacked me instead. Now as for the MTG stuff and figuring out if town can still win this game. THIS IS MYLO, PEOPLE. I JUST REALIZED THIS BUT MY PREVIOUS PLAN WAS TERRIBLE BECAUSE WE WOULD HAVE LOST IF EITHER OF THEM IS SCUM. It's currently 4 townies vs 2 scum. If we kill off 1 townie and no scum, the mafia beast kills off another townie, and it's 2v2 and we lose instantly (since per the OP mafia wins if their numbers equal town's). If we kill off 1 townie and 1 scum, then the mafia beast kills another townie and it's 2v1 LYLO tomorrow. If we kill no one then it's 3v2 LYLO tomorrow. If we kill off 2 townies and 1 scum, then the mafia beast kills another townie and it's 1v1 we lose tomorrow. WE CAN KILL OFF AT MOST ONE TOWNIE UNLESS WE KILL ALL THE SCUM TONIGHT. On July 03 2012 05:53 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Mafia must eliminate all town players or have no feasible way of losing (e.g. even if town players play their cards optimally, they still can't kill the mafia before the mafia kill them. One hour until the Attack Phase starts. I don't think mafia wins in a 2v2 situation or in a 1v1 according to that post, so we really have one more cycle. This was the reasoning for your plan all along, wasn't it? You wanted to kill pretty much everyone to make it 1v1 and hope Zealos onhits prom. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On July 08 2012 23:04 strongandbig wrote: REPOSTING FROM THE BOTTOM OF THE PREVIOUS PAGE: SO HERE IS THE PLAN. WE KILL MATTCHEW AND FULLA TONIGHT AND NO ONE ELSE. Here's the logic. This is MYLO, but it's a double lynch MYLO - as I explained above, we have the option to kill one person or two without losing. Picking Mattchew and Fulla makes this the hardest to disrupt, and if we kill those two we are certain to get one scum; the only realistic way we don't is if zealos is scum, and if that's the case we've lost already since town collectively is an idiot and didn't listen to me about him. I don't think a wbg/prome scum team is a possibility due to study of prome's filter; the only scummy things in there were in his interaction with Mattchew, and his actions towards Mattchew make no sense from a scum point of view unless Mattchew is scum also. If anyone thinks WBG/Prome is a possible scum team then explain why ASAP. We can't kill him in one turn (he has too many blockers) and therefore he'll have his combo before the next attack phase. Once we've killed those two, if one of them flips scum we can use relational analysis to figure out the last scum team member. Either WBG or I will be dead from the mafia monster, so the remaining players will be Zealos, Prome, and whichever of WBG or I survived. Zealos then hits the scum between WBG and Prome with his combo; even if it doesn't kill them straight away, it should bring them low enough that the other one of those two can kill them off with creatures. Zealos will have enough HP then to survive the mafia monster, and town wins. So how can we make sure scum go along with this plan? Pretty simple. First, we make sure that Mattchew and Fulla swing all their creature power at each other. If either of them haven't done this by a certain point in time - preferably halfway to the attack phase deadline - we assume that person is claiming scum and focus fire on them, and save the other one. Then, after all of their creatures are tapped, WBG and Promethelax each swing all of their creatures at one or the other of Mattchew and Fulla. They can't kill each other, so the only way this fails is if one of them is scum and decides to claim it by attacking me. I can survive an attack from WBG, since I can block his ground creatures and then sacrifice all my stuff before damage goes on the stack. Then he will have to sacrifice three of his creatures; if he leaves one of the ground guys alive all the damage will fizzle since the creature was blocked, and if he leaves one of the hovermyr I'll only take one damage and survive. The same thing goes for an attack from Promethelax; I can block all his stuff except Commander Eesha, and if I then sacrifice all my stuff he'll have to sacrifice all but Commander Eesha, which will only do 2 damage to me so I will survive. We will give WBG and Promethelax a deadline to attack with their stuff, probably something like 1 hour before the attack phase deadline. Then, Zealos uses ornithopter of doom to attack anyone who isn't following the plan. DOES EVERYONE AGREE TO THIS PLAN? that plan has multiple flaws in it... | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On July 08 2012 23:10 strongandbig wrote: what are they and do you have a better one? Flaws I can point out:
I think either you misunderstands what Artanis said about how sacrificing works or I am misunderstanding it. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
I still think we just need to kill Matt here. I can do 5 damage to Matt with my fliers or just 4 and he can't block that. If someone else does the other 4 damage he's dead. We can't hit into townies today. Mafia won't follow any plan anyways. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On July 08 2012 23:25 strongandbig wrote: scum If mafia don't follow the plan then we'll know becuase we set a deadline. Then we kill them and save the rest. The deadline is within 5,5 hours. When is this deadline supposed to be? Right now we've got 3 people in the thread and that'S all while Matt and Prom are afk-ing like crazy. Do you really think they will come back in time? Do you really think this is a coincidence that they're afk right now? On top of that it's sunday, which means I'll take the train back to my place, so I'll be gone in 1.5 hours and will only be back 2 hours later for a short amount of time, as every sunday. Do you really think we can manage a deadline before the deadline in so little time? | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On July 08 2012 23:38 strongandbig wrote: why the fuck do you keep saying this why do you want me to do things before people can talk about them there's no reason to sacrifice stuff before the end of the attack phase at the very earliest You can't use abilites in the blocking-phase which means you will have to do it in the attack phase or now. That's what we're talking about all the time, isn't it? Everyone having 4 creatures tops will attack with their creatures, you will sacrifice creatures which means noone will have blockers. That means that the damage from the attacking creatures will go trough no matter what because you destroyed the blockers which means mafia could easily kill more than just one guy. If you have 3 HP and 0 creatures to block you are dead. If Fulla is on 6HP and has 0 creatures to block he will be dead. If the mafia beast attacks me I will be dead. If we attack matt he'll be dead as well. It will be 1v1 Zealos vs Prom if you sacrifice creatures during the attackphase becaue it's basicly a "creatures can't block but are able to attack" global card for everyone having 4 or less monsters. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On July 08 2012 23:45 Artanis[Xp] wrote: The sacrificing ability will work as Strongandbig suggested. I will extend the block phase if neccesary to allow people time to choose. OH that changes a lot. I thought it's not possible because you told me I can't use the sacrifice ability of my AEther spellbomb during the blockingphase either, so I figured it's the same thing. Have to think about what that might change. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On July 09 2012 00:19 strongandbig wrote: you have six life moron he only has six damage available, total plus festering goblin seriously, what the fuck man He still has 3 mana left. He still has 5 cards left. He still has not played a thing this turn. He still has a RED deck. You know what red decks are good at? | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
If he is I want to know how much so I know how much damage will go through from me, as in how many monsters will be alive. I only have 4 creatures in total and if we plan to attack Mattchew I want to know how many of them will end up dealing damage because I have to sacrifice X creatues. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On July 09 2012 07:59 strongandbig wrote: At the moment whether or not I sacrifice creatures depends on whether or not Matt actually attacks Fulla with everything, and what Prome does with his creatures. Okay let's rephrase it: What are you going to do if matt really attacks Fulla with: Goblin Lackey (1/1) Goblin Token (1/1) Goblin Token (1/1) Skirk Prospector (1/1) Goblin Warchief (2/2) Goblin Marshall (3/3) Goblin Piledriver (2+2X/2) That would be the worst case scenario after all and I don't think it's that unlikely. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
Fulla has nothing to block at all and has 6 HP. IF S&B wipes the board matt is able to single handedly kill fulla + s&b. Here's the situation broken down: Matt has: Goblin Lackey (1/1) Goblin Token (1/1) Goblin Token (1/1) Skirk Prospector (1/1) Goblin Warchief (2/2) Goblin Marshall (3/3) Goblin Piledriver (2+2X/2) If S&B sacs all of his creatures that would mean Matt would be left with Skirk Prospector (1/1) Goblin Warchief (2/2) Goblin Marshall (3/3) Goblin Piledriver (8/2) He could attack fulla with Goblin Piledriver (8/2) reducing him to -2 HP and attack S&B with Skirk Prospector (1/1) reducing him to -3 or any other combination because neither Fulla nor S&B have something to block in this "wipe board" scenario but matt has a shitton left to attack.Goblin Warchief (2/2) Goblin Marshall (3/3) So wiping the board is a no-go imo. Have to think through and figure out if it looks better if we only wipe a single creature, two or none. Yes Matts piledriver get's way stronger that way but that's a single creature you can block with a 1/1 creature yourself because it has no blocking. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
Not exactly, but kind of. Here's why: I thought this through A LOT and I can't think of big disadvantages or big advantages, however we would get a lot of information here. To get this straight, I don't think it hurts us and I don't think it will benefit us but with what prom has recently posted we desperatly need to get clarity in here and forcing everyone to sac stuff might end up revealing hidden mafia plans if there are any. We all got a pretty good idea at what people should be saccing if they are town however if we consider what they have and what would be best for town, however we might end up seeing weird stuff. I'm not really willing to get more into details here but there are several choices you can make for different people and I think we could easily break down things that way and get clarity about what people want to do this turn and not just want people say. I still don't have an idea what's going on in Matt-land or Prom-land and I honestly don't think they're telling the truth. On top of that we have Prom telling people "well we should waste our damage this turn because it doesn't matter". Prom says we're at Mylo and that's complete bullshit, we're not at Mylo, we're at Lylo right now. Just read what he's postng most recently: On July 09 2012 09:24 Promethelax wrote: Do note how niether of us will kill WBG. This attack doesn't hurt town because he is already below the mafia beast kill threshold but hurts scum if WBG is scum which I feel that he probably is. If Matt is doing enough damage to WBG to bring him to the point where I could kill him I will instead attack Zealos to weaken him in case he is scum. This is clear mafia agenda. He's basicly telling people to no-lynch and hold damage back, because after all "worst case" would be you wasted your damage on someone who is going to die either way, and telling you that's not bad at all and won't change a thing. We're at lylo right now. Every point of damage might matter in the end and it's a race against the clock before the mafia beast kills the remaining townies. How is wasting damage in that scenario not something bad? We need to kill Matt today to give ourselves another chance to stay in the game and we need to focus our damage on prom to give ourselves a chance to kill him off. Here's the same post: On July 09 2012 09:07 Promethelax wrote: You already know my thoughts on that, if you go for him I'll probably go after WBG with my follow up as well, if he is townie Mafia is already able to one shot him with their beast so it won't hurt us and if he is mafia weakening him helps a great deal. He's not even talking about what he thinks about me. He says "well if he's town I derped and it doesn't matter because he's dead anyways and if he's mafia he's not". That's not an explanation to go after someone in lylo, we need every point of damage we can get and we need people to attack who they consider to be mafia and not some "well if he's town it won't hurt so I poke him instead". Also check out how he completly changed targets over the past 48 hours. If I remember correctly the only reason he considered me to be a mafia is that I was fosing multiple people early on. Well newsflash, I did not know how is town and who is mafia before the game started. Reads change over the game and people are wrong. I ended up being wrong on Grey and I ended up being fooled by wifom badly. But here's how reading people works: You have a somewhat bad idea early on. Usually you get a couple of green reads early on, maybe a couple of red reads but you're not sure at all, not on d1 and most times not on d2 as well although people keep saying otherwise to sound confident in their reads to make people follow them. Most interesting is this fact: Reads start out weak and get better and better over the course of action. Prom basicly said I am mafia because I was not certain about someone early on and attacked multiple people. Do you people really think that is something that mafias do? Or more importantly, do you think that is something townies don't do? I can only speak for myself but I don't usually figure out 100% mafia by the end of d1 calling every single name without calling more names than having mafia in the game. Do you? So really there is no point in saying "Well toad is suspicious because he was suspicious of multiple people early on". If anything that's a fucking town tell because of course I'm not sure about my reads early on. If you would waltz in the thread telling people otherwise that sounds more confident that you should be and therefore you're either overconfident or mafia having more information. As mentioned, reads start out shaky and with every day they should get better as you get more and more information about what's going on (unless of course you already have all the information needed, right prom? :p). That's what's happening in camp-Toad. Reads were a little all over the place early on because I said I consider 4 people to be scummy d1 or possible mafias and now I'm certain it's got to be Matt and Prom. Again, Prom says that's something weird but it's really not at all, it's normal for people starting with no information and gaining more information to work with over the course of action. Now on to the important part: Look at how proms reads are changing COMPLETLY over the course of 24 hours that late in the game. Prom however was the completly opposite here. He said very little about reads early on when it should be easy to say at least something, he never really attacked someone and always keeps half of his stuff untapped for something and he suddenly chickens out like a mad mad. He said I'm mafia and matt is mafia as well 24 hours ago. Now he's willing to attack Zealos instead, or even Fulla. Way to go, it's Lylo with 5 people other than you alive "well I think those 4 might end up being mafia, but just maybe". So really, I think we have all the prove we need to consider both Matt and Prom mafia at this point and should go all attack on them. However, I'd like to see s&b sacrifice one creature to check what Prom is doing as it's not changing a thing anyways. Is he going to sac his useless blocker or is he to afraid to sac something that can block fliers when Zealos has a 10/2 flier and instead sac something that actually could be used in a good way, aka attacking someone? | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
If Zealos is indeed Zealos, Mattchew is probably Mattchew and has only 8 HP while Zealos can kill him without a problem. What exactly makes you think that Zealos would even think about attacking you instead of Mattchew in that scenario? More importantly, we are talking about a creature that loses that power the next cycle, so it would be only for this very cycle. More importantly Zealos is attacking Mattchew and I am most likely WBG according to you. Mafiabuddies Zealos and WBG doing whatever we're doing right now, yet you want to attack Fulla Am I really the only one who thinks this story of yours might not make sense at all? | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On July 10 2012 01:55 strongandbig wrote: Toad where you at? You're European right? I'm here but as people apparently agree to play the "long game" and waste damage "because it's not hurting town if we attack someone who's already below mafia treshhold" in lylo I don't really see the point of posting anything right now. If you guys think that not attacking mafia is anything but a straight up lose and you don't even realize that I won't be able to convince you anyways. So no idea what to do. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On July 10 2012 02:45 Promethelax wrote: @Matt: don't waste town KP. If you want to kill Fulla I'll attack elsewhere. W T F dude. I keep telling you telling people to waste town KP is bad in this spot because we can't afford to waste town KP right now and that your argument to "attack WBG because he's at 16HP. If he's mafia we're good and if he's town it didn't care because he was going to die anyways." That's exactly what you have been saying the last couple of hours. You told people to waste town-KP for some weird kind of safety that will never end up helping us because we're activly wasting town-KP but that's no problem because according to you we can afford to waste town KP and go after me this turn because that's not hurting. And now you're telling him to not attack Fulla because that would be wasting town KP and we can't afford that? WHY AM I THE ONLY ONE SEEING THIS GUY TELLING STORIES THAT DON'T END UP MAKING SENSE AT ALL. wtf is going on. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On July 10 2012 02:54 WereBugs-Go wrote: W T F dude. I keep telling you that telling people to waste town KP is bad in this spot because we can't afford to waste town KP right now and that your argument to "attack WBG because he's at 16HP. If he's mafia we're good and if he's town it didn't care because he was going to die anyways." is bullshit because we can't afford to waste town-KP like that. That's exactly what you have been saying the last couple of hours. You told people to waste town-KP for some weird kind of safety that will never end up helping us because we're activly wasting town-KP but that's no problem because according to you we can afford to waste town KP and go after me this turn because I'm dead anyways. And now you're telling him to not attack Fulla because that would be wasting town KP and we can't afford that? WHY AM I THE ONLY ONE SEEING THIS GUY TELLING STORIES THAT DON'T END UP MAKING SENSE AT ALL. wtf is going on. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
Okay fulla deals 10 damage to him with his 10/2. I can send my 2 hovermyrs after Matt and kill him, that'd reduce him to 0 again. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On July 10 2012 02:58 Promethelax wrote: I don't think you are dumb so I'm assuming you are scum. I said to deal damage to you because I think that you are scum and if you aren't we won't hurt town. Matt is dealing about a million damage on a guy I already killed. Do you really not see the difference? On July 10 2012 02:45 Promethelax wrote: @Matt: don't waste town KP. If you want to kill Fulla I'll attack elsewhere. How in the world is that NOT a contradiction. Explain this part to me pretty please | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On July 10 2012 03:17 Promethelax wrote: but I want to punch you because you are probably scum. Matt decided to punch a wall because he wasn't sure it was dead. If that's the case, why did you add the "well and if WBG really is town it won't matter at all because he's already below the mafia treshhold"-phrase in the first place? You seem to acknowledge that we can't waste town-KP now. So if I am town your move is retarded, that's the point. If you want to attack me because you think I am mafia, whatever I don't feel like talking to a wall anymore but don't label it as win/win either way (or at least you labeled it as win/wayne) when in reality it is win/lose. That's trying to be manipulative and I don't see a reason for a townie to say such a thing when he thinks otherwise. You described the situation completly wrong making it sound like attacking me is a win/win or a win/wayne situation when it really isn't. Why should a townie do such a thing when he realizes himself that it is in fact a win / lose situation. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On July 10 2012 07:04 strongandbig wrote: wait a minute why does it matter? you're still taking lethal damage and so is fulla? Matt only takes 10 damage and has 14 HP. Should be gg right here if I'm not mistaken. I was really afraid of you saccing something 5 secs prior to the deadline just for the sake of ruining late switches. If you had done that you guys would have had 15 minutes time to adjust to what we did. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On July 10 2012 07:06 strongandbig wrote: Also Mattchew your swap doesn't count, it was too late. Yeah matt screwed up. But that was just an "un-attack" move in case of someone else going crazy and attacking matt for 4 damage. That way he'd still have stuff to block like fullas 3/1 creature with haste and trample. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On July 10 2012 07:07 strongandbig wrote: ohhhh wait mattchew has 14 life now... artanis that was kind of a big deal... Actually we could have killed you, fulla and Zealos all together without the change so it would still have been prom vs me, aka 1v1 aka mafia win. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On July 10 2012 07:10 strongandbig wrote: fuck this was really stupid. this game should not have ended this way. I was actually really pissed myself. I spend 48 hours NONSTOP grinding at the set-up checking out what we could do and finally came to the conclusion that if town gets the 15 minutes extension mafia has an about 0% chance of winning this game, which was just frustrating. When we heard that changing attacks won't give the 15 minutes extensions we still were in a coinflip scenario depending on wethe or not one of Zealos + s&b would panic. That way we'd still win but it was completly based on town making the wrong call within the 2 hour blocking phase. The moment artanis realized fulla had one mana to few it was over :p | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On July 10 2012 07:14 strongandbig wrote: if I'd known that about fulla's mana I would have planned things out differently Like, it doesn't seem zealos or fulla has even read the thread since that was announced. yeah and if we had known that we would have planned things out differently as well. We just realized 20 minutes short of the deadline "waitwaitwait a sec. Matt is not dead and we don't need to go all-in on all 3!". | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On July 10 2012 07:15 Artanis[Xp] wrote: A lot of these changes I had to make on the fly, without anyone to consult with but the players and occasionally Acrofales. It's really hard to run a game like this and especially with rules that if you change them can alter the course of the game dramatically, and I realize I've made some mistakes. It were some hard calls to make. Giving town the 15 minutes extension is a no-go in mafia games and if you had done there would have been no way to win for mafia. Without it there was no way to win for town at this point. However, I don't think the win was something that occured because of the rule changes. Just check d1 and d2. I totally fooled people and town was running in circles. From my point of view this would have been outragious if town had actually won this game. But as mentioned, that's just my point of view because I think we did really good early on while town basicly did nothing (that ended up being right) except for the very last cycle. In the end I've got to say this was really funny and thanks for hosting although it probably was incredible hard to balance things and you had to make a couple of tough calls. | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
On July 10 2012 07:17 gonzaw wrote: Nova, at least we can be relieved that Toad isn't insanely stupid .....too bad I can't be relieved in S&B being scum >_> (dude......wtf was up with your "cases" against Zealos and Greymist?) lol yeah I was actually sitting in my room d2 thinking "okay fuck. Now they're going to summon those 8/8 creatures, np for us and I can get them attack the wrong guys easily but there's no way they'll think I'm that retarded after seeing grey flip" Next day "weeeell, fuck we forgot to send a kill in... guess this goes really badly for us." and out of nowhere this wi-fom thing works perfect although we just honestly forgot to send a kill in LOL and again, after nova flipping "weeell, okay last time they bought the story but there's no way they'll think I'm that retarded after nova flipps, I'm screwed". | ||
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WereBugs-Go
Korea (South)172 Posts
Matt kill fulla + s&b with everything Toad attack with 2 hovermyrs vs Zealos. He has only 2 fliers (10/2, 0/2). If he blocks with both Zealos is alive but Matt as well = Mafia win If he's only blocking with one he is dead together with the mafia beast as is Matt = Mafia win OR if s&b saccs stuff the other way around, still the same thing. The only way to win for you guys was to kill both Matt and me today. | ||
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