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On July 11 2012 04:22 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 22:26 Fulla wrote:On July 10 2012 22:04 Nova_Terra wrote:On July 10 2012 21:01 Fulla wrote:
Well Nova you got us all to pool you mana, let you summon a big beast. then go AFK. WTF? If you couldn't be available once during the entire 24 hours attack phase why ask for the mana?
You just seemed to sheepishly go 'oh woops nevermind'. I'm disappointed that you don't concede this as a mistake. This is what led to your downfall. From my perspective at the time it was a pure fluke that Zealos happened to be holding a deathbomb in his hands that almost near 1shot killed you. I finished the job
I accept that killing you was probably a mistake, but even with hindsight now, you're play made no sense to me as town. Case in point, did you actually read what I said? Case in point, do you actually ever offer the courtesy to accepting you're error? I will give you an answer. You screwed up, so you're read seemed screwed up just as bad. To continue, I thought S&B+Matt as well, when Were manipulated me and bussed MATT and S&B was mafia attacked, this turned it on it's head. Looking at a passive, inactive Prom I started to see only red  Umm yes Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 05:34 Nova_Terra wrote:
Omfg I'm so sorry, my Internet went completely down earlier today and by the time I got to the nearest Internet cafe they were closed T_T then we got out the new router we had brought and we just fixed it now
We should follow greymists reads and go over his filter So no, it appears you don't read. Or at least subpar reading comprehension skills. Now I see why this game was lost Apologies Fulla, I am not suggesting that you lost us the game, I am suggesting that nobody actually got their heads out of their own asses and looked in to other people in the game until everyone realize we needed a plan where all of a sudden Toad came in and nobody cared whether or not his reasoning made sense, a leader was needed Hell we wasted half of the game talking about mechanics
Did you not read anything I said in the last cycle or two? About a third of it was questioning Toad and making a case on him. A pretty good one as it turns out.
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On July 11 2012 05:31 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2012 04:22 Nova_Terra wrote:On July 10 2012 22:26 Fulla wrote:On July 10 2012 22:04 Nova_Terra wrote:On July 10 2012 21:01 Fulla wrote:
Well Nova you got us all to pool you mana, let you summon a big beast. then go AFK. WTF? If you couldn't be available once during the entire 24 hours attack phase why ask for the mana?
You just seemed to sheepishly go 'oh woops nevermind'. I'm disappointed that you don't concede this as a mistake. This is what led to your downfall. From my perspective at the time it was a pure fluke that Zealos happened to be holding a deathbomb in his hands that almost near 1shot killed you. I finished the job
I accept that killing you was probably a mistake, but even with hindsight now, you're play made no sense to me as town. Case in point, did you actually read what I said? Case in point, do you actually ever offer the courtesy to accepting you're error? I will give you an answer. You screwed up, so you're read seemed screwed up just as bad. To continue, I thought S&B+Matt as well, when Were manipulated me and bussed MATT and S&B was mafia attacked, this turned it on it's head. Looking at a passive, inactive Prom I started to see only red Umm yes On July 04 2012 05:34 Nova_Terra wrote:
Omfg I'm so sorry, my Internet went completely down earlier today and by the time I got to the nearest Internet cafe they were closed T_T then we got out the new router we had brought and we just fixed it now
We should follow greymists reads and go over his filter So no, it appears you don't read. Or at least subpar reading comprehension skills. Now I see why this game was lost Apologies Fulla, I am not suggesting that you lost us the game, I am suggesting that nobody actually got their heads out of their own asses and looked in to other people in the game until everyone realize we needed a plan where all of a sudden Toad came in and nobody cared whether or not his reasoning made sense, a leader was needed Hell we wasted half of the game talking about mechanics Did you not read anything I said in the last cycle or two? About a third of it was questioning Toad and making a case on him. A pretty good one as it turns out.
Actually you an oberyn were the two best players in the game IMO, it was just too late when you did cause everyone was already listening to toad
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On July 11 2012 05:54 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2012 05:31 Promethelax wrote:On July 11 2012 04:22 Nova_Terra wrote:On July 10 2012 22:26 Fulla wrote:On July 10 2012 22:04 Nova_Terra wrote:On July 10 2012 21:01 Fulla wrote:
Well Nova you got us all to pool you mana, let you summon a big beast. then go AFK. WTF? If you couldn't be available once during the entire 24 hours attack phase why ask for the mana?
You just seemed to sheepishly go 'oh woops nevermind'. I'm disappointed that you don't concede this as a mistake. This is what led to your downfall. From my perspective at the time it was a pure fluke that Zealos happened to be holding a deathbomb in his hands that almost near 1shot killed you. I finished the job
I accept that killing you was probably a mistake, but even with hindsight now, you're play made no sense to me as town. Case in point, did you actually read what I said? Case in point, do you actually ever offer the courtesy to accepting you're error? I will give you an answer. You screwed up, so you're read seemed screwed up just as bad. To continue, I thought S&B+Matt as well, when Were manipulated me and bussed MATT and S&B was mafia attacked, this turned it on it's head. Looking at a passive, inactive Prom I started to see only red Umm yes On July 04 2012 05:34 Nova_Terra wrote:
Omfg I'm so sorry, my Internet went completely down earlier today and by the time I got to the nearest Internet cafe they were closed T_T then we got out the new router we had brought and we just fixed it now
We should follow greymists reads and go over his filter So no, it appears you don't read. Or at least subpar reading comprehension skills. Now I see why this game was lost Apologies Fulla, I am not suggesting that you lost us the game, I am suggesting that nobody actually got their heads out of their own asses and looked in to other people in the game until everyone realize we needed a plan where all of a sudden Toad came in and nobody cared whether or not his reasoning made sense, a leader was needed Hell we wasted half of the game talking about mechanics Did you not read anything I said in the last cycle or two? About a third of it was questioning Toad and making a case on him. A pretty good one as it turns out. Actually you an oberyn were the two best players in the game IMO, it was just too late when you did cause everyone was already listening to toad
That means a lot to me, thanks. This was my first ever game (as I'll say as many times as I can) so any actual play analysis would be greatly appreciated.
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On July 11 2012 04:22 Nova_Terra wrote:
So no, it appears you don't read. Or at least subpar reading comprehension skills. Now I see why this game was lost
Apologies Fulla, I am not suggesting that you lost us the game, I am suggesting that nobody actually got their heads out of their own asses and looked in to other people in the game until everyone realize we needed a plan where all of a sudden Toad came in and nobody cared whether or not his reasoning made sense, a leader was needed
Hell we wasted half of the game talking about mechanics
But it's mafia you don't know what's truth and what's a lie, you never know! (You're reasoning I'm talking about).
Toad's reads seemed logical and constructive? If you could show me where he seemed way off? I'd appreciate it.
You see Prom siding with Matt right at end was dodgy as hell. If Prom had been willing to kill Matt more I'd have probably suspected Toad. I just couldn't see how any town could not see Matt as pure red.
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What's everyone's thoughts on there being more roles?
- 2 Masons for the town, as in 2 confirmed towns that know each other.
- 1 Serial Killer neutral has to kill everyone. (Could have a half targets life attack instead of mafia beast).
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On July 11 2012 06:02 Fulla wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2012 04:22 Nova_Terra wrote:
So no, it appears you don't read. Or at least subpar reading comprehension skills. Now I see why this game was lost
Apologies Fulla, I am not suggesting that you lost us the game, I am suggesting that nobody actually got their heads out of their own asses and looked in to other people in the game until everyone realize we needed a plan where all of a sudden Toad came in and nobody cared whether or not his reasoning made sense, a leader was needed
Hell we wasted half of the game talking about mechanics But it's mafia you don't know what's truth and what's a lie, you never know! (You're reasoning I'm talking about). Toad's reads seemed logical and constructive? If you could show me where he seemed way off? I'd appreciate it. You see Prom siding with Matt right at end was dodgy as hell. If Prom had been willing to kill Matt more I'd have probably suspected Toad. I just couldn't see how any town could not see Matt as pure red.
Because Matt always plays like that. 100% of the time. And your (Fulla) play was really scummy, your read jumping without explanation made 0 sense from a townie point of view and a you/wbg team made way more logical sense than a you/Matt team.
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But you see Strong put forward a plan, where me and Matt would die, obviously Matt disagreed. But it seemed to satisfy mostly everyone. but even that you was highly against. Dodgy
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On July 11 2012 06:19 Fulla wrote:But you see Strong put forward a plan, where me and Matt would die, obviously Matt disagreed. But it seemed to satisfy mostly everyone. but even that you was highly against. Dodgy
No I wasn't against it at all. I tried to kill you.
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On July 11 2012 06:07 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2012 06:02 Fulla wrote:On July 11 2012 04:22 Nova_Terra wrote:
So no, it appears you don't read. Or at least subpar reading comprehension skills. Now I see why this game was lost
Apologies Fulla, I am not suggesting that you lost us the game, I am suggesting that nobody actually got their heads out of their own asses and looked in to other people in the game until everyone realize we needed a plan where all of a sudden Toad came in and nobody cared whether or not his reasoning made sense, a leader was needed
Hell we wasted half of the game talking about mechanics But it's mafia you don't know what's truth and what's a lie, you never know! (You're reasoning I'm talking about). Toad's reads seemed logical and constructive? If you could show me where he seemed way off? I'd appreciate it. You see Prom siding with Matt right at end was dodgy as hell. If Prom had been willing to kill Matt more I'd have probably suspected Toad. I just couldn't see how any town could not see Matt as pure red. Because Matt always plays like that. 100% of the time. And your (Fulla) play was really scummy, your read jumping without explanation made 0 sense from a townie point of view and a you/wbg team made way more logical sense than a you/Matt team.
Not quite sure what aspect of Matt's play you were looking at, but the semi-lurker ranting and raving about people is his scumplay. I agree that the stubborn streak is usual for him regardless of alignment 
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On July 11 2012 06:25 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2012 06:07 Promethelax wrote:On July 11 2012 06:02 Fulla wrote:On July 11 2012 04:22 Nova_Terra wrote:
So no, it appears you don't read. Or at least subpar reading comprehension skills. Now I see why this game was lost
Apologies Fulla, I am not suggesting that you lost us the game, I am suggesting that nobody actually got their heads out of their own asses and looked in to other people in the game until everyone realize we needed a plan where all of a sudden Toad came in and nobody cared whether or not his reasoning made sense, a leader was needed
Hell we wasted half of the game talking about mechanics But it's mafia you don't know what's truth and what's a lie, you never know! (You're reasoning I'm talking about). Toad's reads seemed logical and constructive? If you could show me where he seemed way off? I'd appreciate it. You see Prom siding with Matt right at end was dodgy as hell. If Prom had been willing to kill Matt more I'd have probably suspected Toad. I just couldn't see how any town could not see Matt as pure red. Because Matt always plays like that. 100% of the time. And your (Fulla) play was really scummy, your read jumping without explanation made 0 sense from a townie point of view and a you/wbg team made way more logical sense than a you/Matt team. Not quite sure what aspect of Matt's play you were looking at, but the semi-lurker ranting and raving about people is his scumplay. I agree that the stubborn streak is usual for him regardless of alignment
the stubborn and the lurky bits are both major aspects of his town play. By the time I started to doubt my read on him I knew that changing my read would make it too easy for scum to push me, I decided to take the risk that Matt was town because I knew that changing my mind at that point in the game would give scum too much to work with to call make actions scummy.
It turned out to be a bad risk.
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Learning moment: do not be afraid to change your read on someone, as long as you can reason it out. Might scum try to take advantage of it? Yes. But if you can reason out exactly WHY you changed your mind, you're good. If you think someone is scum but are gambling on him being town just because changing your mind would make you look stupid, you are not doing your job as a town player. You have two tools: your voice and your vote. Use BOTH to find scum and do not be afraid to use either.
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Yeah it was dumb but when WBG/Fulla were playing the way they were it made it hard for me to beilive that anyone else could be scum so as I lost my good reasoning for Matt being a townie it became less important in my mind if he was playing right along with his meta or not sice WBG was playing his scum meta and saying clearly scummy things and Fula was being clearly scummy.
Fulla's refusal to stick to a read and complete lack of contribution made him seem sooooo scummy. When a guy is asking what town wants them to do over and over and changing their reads on everyone with no provacation it is hard to view them as town. Poor play on my part not to see how that behaviour makes as little sense for scum as it does for town. I tunnled Fulla for playing abysmally but didn't stop to consider that it was jsut as likekly to be bad town play as bad scum play. His butt fuck stupid Nova hammer should have proved to me that he was town, too much risk for a scum player.
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Realized how offense that was. His hammer of Nova actually did make sense since Nova skipping the attack phase seemed super scummy even though it was for a legit reason.
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It was just I knew Matt was scum, I knew absolutely 100%. Were said lets kill him, Nova was just Nova (inactive), S&B was being attacked by the Beast you said he was town.
In future I'll be more open to mafia bussing! However since if Prom was mafia he could have just attacked S&B with flyer anyways I should have went with the kill Were/Matt just in case.
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On July 11 2012 06:34 Acrofales wrote:
Learning moment: do not be afraid to change your read on someone, as long as you can reason it out. Might scum try to take advantage of it? Yes. But if you can reason out exactly WHY you changed your mind, you're good. If you think someone is scum but are gambling on him being town just because changing your mind would make you look stupid, you are not doing your job as a town player. You have two tools: your voice and your vote. Use BOTH to find scum and do not be afraid to use either.
Yes, nobody should be afraid to change their mind about someone. Hell I do it all the time.
Although what do you mean by "might scum try to take advantage of it?" ? You mean that they may try and manipulate your read because they may think it's "weak" and get you to have a wrong read on someone?
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Hindsight is so 20/20 in this thread...
and i was super active in LVI or w.e other game I was in as town, so lurking only happened once as town in death factory
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On July 11 2012 06:54 Promethelax wrote:
Yeah it was dumb but when WBG/Fulla were playing the way they were it made it hard for me to beilive that anyone else could be scum so as I lost my good reasoning for Matt being a townie it became less important in my mind if he was playing right along with his meta or not sice WBG was playing his scum meta and saying clearly scummy things and Fula was being clearly scummy.
Fulla's refusal to stick to a read and complete lack of contribution made him seem sooooo scummy. When a guy is asking what town wants them to do over and over and changing their reads on everyone with no provacation it is hard to view them as town. Poor play on my part not to see how that behaviour makes as little sense for scum as it does for town. I tunnled Fulla for playing abysmally but didn't stop to consider that it was jsut as likekly to be bad town play as bad scum play. His butt fuck stupid Nova hammer should have proved to me that he was town, too much risk for a scum player.
I don't think I have a scum meta to be honest or perhaps I wouldn't tell you about it if I had one :p
At least so far noone really was able to tell me what my scum meta is opposed to my town meta.
Take gonzaw for a second:
The guy figured me out as mafia in the first game we played together based on something I considered to bullshit because I am changing my play after every game, hopefully for the better and what he said might have been right for my last game as mafia and was not right for my games as town around that time, but the reason he wanted to lynch me was something I actively implemented in my game as both, mafia and town. So he is someone who believes that he can figure me out easily. Remember what happened this game?
Take SuperSoft for a second:
He figured me out as mafia in our first game together and ever after thought he knows how to read me. Thing is, he ended up being wrong about me (said I'm mafia when I was town) in the last two couple of games we played.
Take WhereBugs for a second:
He thought I am easy to read a couple of months ago and ever after LI resorted to "Toad is hard to read no matter of alignment"
Radfield kept saying it's almost impossible to get a read on me because there are no or very few differences in my town and mafia meta and the only realy way to figure me out is my process of elimination.
That's what I get from all kind of people and I could go on. After every game there's a couple of guys who think they figured me out some way and except for Syllos (first?) and Rad's most recent one I haven't ever read an analysis about me that I agreed with and it's the same way with your analysis. I completly stand behind what I said, even in the very late game and I consider everything I said to be true, just not to the extend of how I made it sound.
I was honest when I quoted the part from you about telling people to not waste KP while you tell me that you're going to attack me because I still think that was something scummy. The reasoning to figure me out in this game would have been
"Toad points something out that I may or may not agree with but he's completly ignoring everything else in the guys filter and is cherry picking a single post to make someone look bad. Yes the post he quoted has flaws in it [or doesn't if you disagree with it, but as mentioned I was honest about that] but everything else in the filter screams town and he's ignoring that for some reason".
That would have been an analysis on me I'd agree with. Saying "he is stupid, case closed" or "I don't agree with him" won't get you anywhere because people have different opinions on things for different reasons and the other guy being mafia is just one of the many.
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On July 11 2012 07:12 Mattchew wrote:
Hindsight is so 20/20 in this thread...
and i was super active in LVI or w.e other game I was in as town, so lurking only happened once as town in death factory
At one point I was checking your filter in that Movie Star mafia game and saw you lurking there and acting similarly as well, so I said to myself "Well, it's unlikely he's scum in both games, so perhaps he does lurk like this as town".
>_>
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On July 11 2012 07:17 Toadesstern wrote:
Take gonzaw for a second:
The guy figured me out as mafia in the first game we played together based on something I considered to bullshit because I am changing my play after every game, hopefully for the better and what he said might have been right for my last game as mafia and was not right for my games as town around that time, but the reason he wanted to lynch me was something I actively implemented in my game as both, mafia and town. So he is someone who believes that he can figure me out easily. Remember what happened this game?
I didn't want to lynch you only because of meta >_>
I wanted to lynch you because you were scummy 
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On July 11 2012 07:19 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2012 07:17 Toadesstern wrote:
Take gonzaw for a second:
The guy figured me out as mafia in the first game we played together based on something I considered to bullshit because I am changing my play after every game, hopefully for the better and what he said might have been right for my last game as mafia and was not right for my games as town around that time, but the reason he wanted to lynch me was something I actively implemented in my game as both, mafia and town. So he is someone who believes that he can figure me out easily. Remember what happened this game? I didn't want to lynch you only because of meta >_> I wanted to lynch you because you were scummy
yeah I saw that and the post you did (and quoted postgame) was actually the post that came closest to figuring me out. I thought I was in trouble at that time. That WAS a good reason to consider me being mafia.
Saying "X is stupid" or "X is not playing according to his meta" if you can't even point out what his meta is, is not. That's the point here.
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EPT
