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@Obe:
I'm usually trying to figure out players I know myself and try and figure out people I can't figure out by method of elimination.
"I can't figure them out" can be a lot of things. Either someone lurking or someone I never played before or only barely played with him, like 1 game and the guy lurkers hardcore in that game.
As you said I'm having a strong townread on you and a strong mafiaread on Greymist.
I'm having a townread on nova in general although it's nowhere as strong a the on on you or the mafiaread on Grey.
Fulla is giving me an incredible hard time to judge and frankly I'm worried that you're not worried. He's a complete null to me.
I'd consider matt to be scummy but having problems to really stick with it. I saw him play in Holy Roman, he was mafia and dished out correct reads because he was all like "well guys, I'm telling them you are mafia because you're making it to obvious, I have to!" when in reality it wasn't obvious and just his confirmaton bias. When asked he wasn't able to explain why he thought the way he thought which should is a pretty strong mafiaread in general. I'm kind of seeing this this game again. No where as strong as in Holy Roman but I feel like he's having troubles explaining why he thinks the way he thinks for some reason. I need to read some town games of him first though.
S&B looks somewhat scummy but mostly because he managed to make me think he's clearly town in the game (games?) we played as town together. I just got a weird feeling about him. That's what I'm talking about when talking about method of elimination. If Grey someone manages to flip town I'd say we're best to look into guys like that, or Matt, or Fulla or Nova.
Zealos looks downright bad. He's really not doing a thing. He's not looking like the guy from LV (mafia) but he surely isn't looking like a townie either. I'd guess he'd change up as mafia after getting busted in LV so easily by Supersoft very early on just wouldn't try to do the same trick again. Again, one of those process of eliminition guys. I'm not really having anything on him that tells me to not attack that guy.
Prom actually looks good. Yeah he's new and all but I'd rather put my money on him being town than on someone like Fulla.
That being said I'd say I've got 3 mayor mafia reads so far:
Greymist
Mattchew
Zealos
If those are wrong I'd be willing to attack into someone like S&B or Fulla but not right now. The issue however is, that it needs to get more precise and I need those guys who are somewhere in the middle to do some analysis themselves.
I'd like you to post less Obe, so far we're having a lot of posts from you and mostly people disagree or agree with you but it's maybe hard for the new guys to come up with something themselves if you're posting so much and pretty much everything's already said.
I don't think the good looking guys need to post A LOT right now unless there's something really important. We need to improve our reads on the middle group and make it more precise and therefore we need them to do something themselves, without being influenced by us (mostly you) all the time or without them just repeating what was already said.
Lean back a little, watch what's going to happen and do a post later on please. We really need those other guys to take over for the sake of making them better to read. There's really not much to read out of "yeah I agree with obe's plan, let's summon those 8/8 thingies" at all unless you already know who's got what alignment.
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Can I use my sullclamp during the blocking or attacking phase?
Basicly it's this: I want to keep my island for safety reasons but noone can do something in attacking / blocking phase anyways, so I might as well use that 1 unused mana to get +1 damage
If it's not possible, someone having a problem with me using it something like 15 minutes prior to deadline?
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On July 03 2012 01:32 Fulla wrote:
What makes you suspicious of me Were?
If you want I'll cast all my spells next turn on a voted target.
kind of what Matt says. Yes I agree a newbie mafia would probably not be so open about what he has and what he can do / agree to working with people in an oopen way (like what you just said, the vote) so left alone I'd sa you're a townie but you could as well have a mafia buddy who's telling you what's okay to say and what's not.
That's what's happening in mafia QTs a lot of times: New guys post a prewritten text, asking if they can post it and wether or not they should change it and the old guys tell them what to change or if it's bad idea to post it.
Also I want to see you do something yourself and everyone else I mentioned as well. So saying "I could do whatever town wants me to do if we vote" isn't exactly helping. I want to see wether or not you're actually reading the thread and wether or not you're doing something on your own if people like Obe and myself stop talking for a while.
Same goes for the other guys.
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Okay so we need to do 15 damage to Greymist, more damage is not needed.
Who is dealing those 15 damage with what monsters and what are we doing with the rest?
I just tapped my glimmervoid for an Island. I will be using it either for my spellbomb or to equip my skullclamp (+1 damage) depending on wether or not I like what Nova is doing, so I'd like him to tell us what he's about to do ahead of time so I can decide on what to do.
Not sure who's the best target for the rest of the damage. I've got mainly 2 reads that are somewhat decent and 2 people I wouldn't mind dying. What's your take on people guys? Who are you going to attack and why?
I want to know exactly who is attacking with what monsters and what monsters are targetting whom.
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On July 03 2012 07:54 Oberyn wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2012 07:49 WereBugs-Go wrote:
Okay so we need to do 15 damage to Greymist, more damage is not needed.
Who is dealing those 15 damage with what monsters and what are we doing with the rest?
I just tapped my glimmervoid for an Island. I will be using it either for my spellbomb or to equip my skullclamp (+1 damage) depending on wether or not I like what Nova is doing, so I'd like him to tell us what he's about to do ahead of time so I can decide on what to do.
Not sure who's the best target for the rest of the damage. I've got mainly 2 reads that are somewhat decent and 2 people I wouldn't mind dying. What's your take on people guys? Who are you going to attack and why?
I want to know exactly who is attacking with what monsters and what monsters are targetting whom. Nova forgot about using his Giant Growth so a 11+4 direct damage dealt to Grey is out of the question, so we need at least 3-4 creatures to attack. I can attack him with my 8/8, Fulla said he'd attack him with his 1/1 as well. We need to see who is willing to attack Grey alone (and not someone else) so we use their damage instead. Although the possibility of forcing them to attack someone else is there as well (for instance Fulla). I wouldn't mind attacks on these players: -Mattchew -Fulla -Zealos Maybe not killing them though (of course) but crippling their HP so they aren't at ~20 all game.
Giant Growth is an instant. Instants like Giant Growth, equipping equipments or using abilities like my spellbomb are still doable in the attacking phase. I just acked about this a couple of hours ago. Well kind of. I asked it it's allowed for my spellbomb & skullclamp, I guess it's the same for instants.
Yeah those 3 people you listed (matt, fulla, zealos) are 3 out of the 4 guys I wouldn't mind seeing dead. Matt and Zealos are somewhat scummy to me, Full is still a null at this point of time which is not a good sign although I'd rather see Matt and Zealos taking damage.
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On July 03 2012 08:05 Oberyn wrote:
There are no instants in this game, only sorceries. As far as I know you can only use abilities/effects from permanents in the Attack Phase
Sux.
So you're attacking Grey with 8 damage reducing him to 7 HP.
I could toss my 4/4 myr in and make him a 5/3 myr reducing Grey to 2HP (in case I don't have to spellbomb)
I could also toss my 1/2 hovermyr in, reducing him to 1HP.
One more 1/1 thingie needed and Grey is dead. Any problems with that plan?
That way we have the two guys looking good dealing the "obvious" damage while the rest finally starts doing something and has to start doing something themselves except for one other 1/1 creature. Whatever that might be.
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On July 03 2012 08:27 Oberyn wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2012 08:18 WereBugs-Go wrote:On July 03 2012 08:05 Oberyn wrote:
There are no instants in this game, only sorceries. As far as I know you can only use abilities/effects from permanents in the Attack Phase Sux. So you're attacking Grey with 8 damage reducing him to 7 HP. I could toss my 4/4 myr in and make him a 5/3 myr reducing Grey to 2HP (in case I don't have to spellbomb) I could also toss my 1/2 hovermyr in, reducing him to 1HP. One more 1/1 thingie needed and Grey is dead. Any problems with that plan? That way we have the two guys looking good dealing the "obvious" damage while the rest finally starts doing something and has to start doing something themselves except for one other 1/1 creature. Whatever that might be. That seems fine. Also I want some people (zealos, Fulla) to attack someone else other than Grey by saying "Greymist is obvious scum I'm attacking him".
Exactly my thoughts. You want to decide who ends up being the last 1 damage on Grey? I'm going to bed now and I don't feel like browsing through the other thread to look for something suitable to do that right now.
That way I can just tap and attack like just mentioned tomorrow, you can just tap and attack like just mentioned tomorrow and we get to see what other people are doing without doding discussion.
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On July 03 2012 17:26 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2012 07:54 Oberyn wrote:On July 03 2012 07:49 WereBugs-Go wrote:
Okay so we need to do 15 damage to Greymist, more damage is not needed.
Who is dealing those 15 damage with what monsters and what are we doing with the rest?
I just tapped my glimmervoid for an Island. I will be using it either for my spellbomb or to equip my skullclamp (+1 damage) depending on wether or not I like what Nova is doing, so I'd like him to tell us what he's about to do ahead of time so I can decide on what to do.
Not sure who's the best target for the rest of the damage. I've got mainly 2 reads that are somewhat decent and 2 people I wouldn't mind dying. What's your take on people guys? Who are you going to attack and why?
I want to know exactly who is attacking with what monsters and what monsters are targetting whom. Nova forgot about using his Giant Growth so a 11+4 direct damage dealt to Grey is out of the question, so we need at least 3-4 creatures to attack. I can attack him with my 8/8, Fulla said he'd attack him with his 1/1 as well. We need to see who is willing to attack Grey alone (and not someone else) so we use their damage instead. Although the possibility of forcing them to attack someone else is there as well (for instance Fulla). I wouldn't mind attacks on these players: -Mattchew -Fulla -Zealos Maybe not killing them though (of course) but crippling their HP so they aren't at ~20 all game. I'm doing 11 dmg to mattchew in the form of a rootwalla and my avatar. The fauna shaman can attack grey/s+b
So Obe mentioned 3 names. I mentioned 4 names (the same + S&B) and you mentioned you said you'd like to attack Matt+S&B. We all heard enough about why they are doing nothing and are scummy and shit.
I want to hear why you're not attacking Fulla or Zealos.
Just for clarifications: I don't think the idea is bad, I'd probably either attack Zealos or Mattchew myself but I just want to hear reasoning on something we haven't talked over and over yet. So go ahead and tell me why Zealos and Fulla are looking more townish or at least less scummy than Matt + S&B.
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Actually I'd like Zealos to be the target over mattcher over fulla over s&b at this point.
I went over Holy roman mafia again, the game I co-hosted with Caller and frankly I've got to say mattchew isn't anything like that and he was Mafia in that game.
What mattchew did in Holy Roman:- Screaming in his mafia-QT at his buddies how obvious it is that they are mafia.
- He then proceeds to dish out a couple of reads which are ALL 100% correct, bussing his mates and defending townies people are attacking saying it is obvious why he thinks so.
- In the end he never ended up explaining why he thought that way and came to the conclusion of X being mafia or Y being town, he just proceeded to say something along the lines of "screw you guys, you're a bunch of morons and I don't need to explain shit to you when it's so damn obvious".
- He got towncred that way in the end because he ended up bussing a lot but in reality it never was really obvious at all.
Mattchew THOUGHT it was obvious, because he knew who his teammates were, because he knew where he had to look at and easily picked up things that can be considered scummy but that was just confirmation bias. He knew who was mafia so he said so without being able to explain a thing or actually doing a thing except for saying "it's obvious, just lynch that guy over there".
The thing is:
I don't see that happening this game. Yeah he's posting very little and that's making him scummy but I don't see him being scummy the way he usually ends up being scummy and he actually is delivering at least a tiny bit of insight, something he completly failed to do in holy roman. It's more of a risk.nuke scummy, a guy who refuses to do what he is told to do, instead doing his own thing, people consider it scummy and when lynching him for that he ends up flipping true random.
So far mattchew is my #3 scumread after Greymist and Zealos but unless one of them flips town I don't really want to attack him yet.
I'm also pretty sure that either Nova OR Greymist is mafia but not both at the same time and the fact that nova is so all about attacking mattchew out of nowhere is giving me the creeps right now.
It comes down to this for me:
Mafia #1: 99% either Nova or Greymist
Mafia #2: 90% either Zealos, Matt or maybe Fulla.
and it's getting all complicated. Greymist wants to attack Zealos, Nova wants to attack Matt and Matt wants to attack Fulla.
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On July 04 2012 02:52 Oberyn wrote:[...] Is this because of the night kill? You think Grey "no-killed" as scum to create confusion to try and survive today; but if he's town the only reason there was no-kill is if Nova was scum?
yeah. A no-kill because mafia forgot about it is possible as well but I don't take that for an explanation because that's really unlikely.
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On July 04 2012 03:03 Zealos wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 03:01 WereBugs-Go wrote:On July 04 2012 02:52 Oberyn wrote:[...] WBG:
Mafia #1: 99% either Nova or Greymist Is this because of the night kill? You think Grey "no-killed" as scum to create confusion to try and survive today; but if he's town the only reason there was no-kill is if Nova was scum? yeah. A no-kill because mafia forgot about it is possible as well but I don't take that for an explanation because that's really unlikely. All I can think is that the no kill was designed to change /something/ or else they wouldn't have done it. So I say keep the same target as we had beforehand.
That's one of the reasons we're sticking with Greymist. We still have other damage available though.
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Obe still here? I'd like it if you spellbom Novas 8/8 trample thing.
Thing is I am really sure it's either Greymist or Nova for the first mafia spot. If it's Grey and he's dead, whatever, we're down one mafia without taking a lot of damage (noone but you got hit by KP, so it would be a 1v1 trate assuming you'll die today, which isn't that far fetched I guess). If Grey is town Nova is mafia and has a 8/8 creture with trample + a 12/1 creature that is unblockable.
So reason being:
If Grey is mafia we are in a very good spot even without novas 8/8 trample creature.
If Grey is town we're screwed big time with Nova having that 8/8 trample creature.
Also I told him to be clear early on on who he's attacking so I can equip my myr with the equipment rather than spellbombing some rogue creature doing something else. He said he likes to attack mattchew alright but he still hasn't done a thing about it. I can't see a thing in the other thread.
Also he's from Switzerland, it's 21:00 local time over there and he hasn't shown up at all. I've got the feeling he might be dodging the thread.
If you don't spellbomb his 8/8 creature I will do it myself when I'm done cooking. I really don't like Nova not doing a thing right now. Maybe that's paranoia because of the no-hit but as mentioned, even if it is and Grey flips red we're very much okay without Nova's creature after a 1v1 trade.
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On July 04 2012 04:09 Oberyn wrote:
If Grey is mafia cool Nova is most likely town and you guys will need a town 8/8 beast.
If Grey is town and you fear Nova is scum Spellbomb it yourself next turn (you still have AEther Spellbomb).
I won't spellbomb it now in case Grey flips scum, Nova is town and we just made a huge mistake that may cost us the game (well, if Grey flips scum it's unlikely, but still).
There's no rush, at worst Nova will use it on Mattchew or something this turn (but you can still spellbomb it next turn)
If mafia has both a 12/1 and an 8/8 creature there is reason to rush.
If they don't we're fine playing the long game without the 8/8 creature because it's only one mafia left.
Also as Artanis just told us mafia have to eliminate every single townie, they don't even win in a 1v1 situation because of endgame, which gives us another turn.
We have plenty of time if Greymist flips red. Except for Nova noone is having a strong board right now (well and you, but you're most likely going to die today).
If nova is mafia he could probably outright claim mafia and wipe the floor with us with 22 damage the next turn, 24 the turn after that and us having something like 6 damage tops per player.
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On July 04 2012 04:16 Oberyn wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 04:14 WereBugs-Go wrote:On July 04 2012 04:09 Oberyn wrote:
If Grey is mafia cool Nova is most likely town and you guys will need a town 8/8 beast.
If Grey is town and you fear Nova is scum Spellbomb it yourself next turn (you still have AEther Spellbomb).
I won't spellbomb it now in case Grey flips scum, Nova is town and we just made a huge mistake that may cost us the game (well, if Grey flips scum it's unlikely, but still).
There's no rush, at worst Nova will use it on Mattchew or something this turn (but you can still spellbomb it next turn) If mafia has both a 12/1 and an 8/8 creature there is reason to rush. If they don't we're fine playing the long game without the 8/8 creature because it's only one mafia left. Also as Artanis just told us mafia have to eliminate every single townie, they don't even win in a 1v1 situation because of endgame, which gives us another turn. We have plenty of time if Greymist flips red. Except for Nova noone is having a strong board right now (well and you, but you're most likely going to die today). If nova is mafia he could probably outright claim mafia and wipe the floor with us with 22 damage the next turn, 24 the turn after that and us having something like 6 damage tops per player. How many times do I have to repeat that you still have your Spellbomb in your board? Unless you think Nova has a "Remove Artifact from play" card and will use it as soon as D4 starts >_>
Yeah I guess that's right... I just think it's going to be a shitton of mafia damage when we're wrong on Grey and we can't deal with that kind of thing.
My 4/4 myr has no trample, even a single 1/1 creature could just block that and it's done. I just don't think we could kill mafia in time if Nova really turns out to be mafia AND keeps that 8/8 with trample.
While I think we'd be in a great position either way if we spellbomb Nova.
I guess you're right, waiting one cycle is not going to lose us the game, especially if mattchew isn't looking townish at all, he's just not the optimal target right now.
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On July 04 2012 04:30 Oberyn wrote:
Dude don't scare me like that, it makes me think that maybe you are scum trying to get both 8/8 town beasts (from a town Nova and a townie me once you kill me tonight) dead by next turn so your team (that most likely may not include Grey) wins more easily >_>
If I were scum I'd either just spellbomb it myself or just chill and don't risk anything while you keep telling everyone how townish I am.
You can believe me, I am scared about nova and that is all, that's why I asked you about it in the first place because nova STILL hasn't shown up although I told him to get in here early enough so I can choose wether to equip or spellbomb if the backfires us.
If I were mafia I would just shut up about that and talk about different things.
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Come on. Told ya I shoul have spellbombed that guy...
The rest even dodged attacking in a no-blocking phase wtf is going on.
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On July 04 2012 05:34 Nova_Terra wrote:
Omfg I'm so sorry, my Internet went completely down earlier today and by the time I got to the nearest Internet cafe they were closed T_T then we got out the new router we had brought and we just fixed it now
We should follow greymists reads and go over his filter
This shit is easy. You are Mafia and Zealos is not leaving S&B or Mattchew for the last mafia spot.
Greymist said we should kill Zealos. Why should we follow his reads instead of the other ones Oberyn gave? Where's the difference and why should we follow Greymist instead of someone else?
Not that that makes you mafia, but can anyone believe that in a situation like this:
Obe + Grey + WBG + Nova would do a no-kill on n2?
Why not just hit Nova or me. There's no way this can be right. Nova's got to be mafia, that's why they didn't want to confirm shoot into either Nova or me because that would confirm the other guy.
I'm sure as hell town, Obe just flipped town and so did Grey. That means you're mafia pal.
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On July 04 2012 05:55 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 05:42 WereBugs-Go wrote:On July 04 2012 05:34 Nova_Terra wrote:
Omfg I'm so sorry, my Internet went completely down earlier today and by the time I got to the nearest Internet cafe they were closed T_T then we got out the new router we had brought and we just fixed it now
We should follow greymists reads and go over his filter This shit is easy. You are Mafia and Zealos is not leaving S&B or Mattchew for the last mafia spot. Greymist said we should kill Zealos. Why should we follow his reads instead of the other ones Oberyn gave? Where's the difference and why should we follow Greymist instead of someone else? Not that that makes you mafia, but can anyone believe that in a situation like this: Obe + Grey + WBG + Nova would do a no-kill on n2? Why not just hit Nova or me. There's no way this can be right. Nova's got to be mafia, that's why they didn't want to confirm shoot into either Nova or me because that would confirm the other guy. I'm sure as hell town, Obe just flipped town and so did Grey. That means you're mafia pal. why the bolded
On July 04 2012 05:55 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 05:42 WereBugs-Go wrote:On July 04 2012 05:34 Nova_Terra wrote:
Omfg I'm so sorry, my Internet went completely down earlier today and by the time I got to the nearest Internet cafe they were closed T_T then we got out the new router we had brought and we just fixed it now
We should follow greymists reads and go over his filter This shit is easy. You are Mafia and Zealos is not leaving S&B or Mattchew for the last mafia spot. Greymist said we should kill Zealos. Why should we follow his reads instead of the other ones Oberyn gave? Where's the difference and why should we follow Greymist instead of someone else? Not that that makes you mafia, but can anyone believe that in a situation like this: Obe + Grey + WBG + Nova would do a no-kill on n2? Why not just hit Nova or me. There's no way this can be right. Nova's got to be mafia, that's why they didn't want to confirm shoot into either Nova or me because that would confirm the other guy. I'm sure as hell town, Obe just flipped town and so did Grey. That means you're mafia pal. why the bolded
because he just said "let's do what Greymist wanted to do".
If I remember correctly Greymist was the guy attacking Zealos.
I'll check filters later on and check if it makes sense given what they posted, but I think we've got something that is a nice town-tell for Zealos here and it's comming from a mafia.
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On July 04 2012 06:23 Zealos wrote:
WBG, how sure are you that Nova is scum?
I already said, I don't consider Obe + Grey + WBG + Nova a possibility, especially after the no-shot because there was no reason to not shoot that day unless they wanted to protect either me or Nova from being figured out. I know I'm not mafia so that means Nova is mafia on top of everything that was already said about him.
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EPT
