EPTNewbie Mini XIV - Page 10
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s0Lstice
United States1832 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
Miltonkram (2): sciberbia, ShiaoPi hegeo (2): Release, Mordanis Mufaa (1): hegeo ShiaoPi (1): Miltonkram With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch. Voting ends in approximately 3.5 hours. Yet to vote: Mufaa, s0lstice, O.golden_ne. | ||
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O.Golden_ne
Australia204 Posts
I'm going to stand by my earlier posts about miltonkram. but before i vote i want to say that i will change to Hegeo in the case that we dont get enough votes for a lynch, i like Mordanis and Releases argument on him. In the case the miltonkram flips town, i'm going seriously question ShiaoPi however. @Hegeo can you please swap your vote of Mufaa, he is most likely modkilled. ##Vote: Miltonkram | ||
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
+ Show Spoiler [Hegeo] + Since I left the other night, he's had some activity. First off, let me say something that I find fishy. His primary mode of defence seems to be to let others take care of the accusations toward him. This doesn't seem scummy necessarily, it just seems weird. Overall, he basically has only posted in order to make himself less suspicious. When Release switched to pressuring Milton and I relented for the night, he stopped posting entirely. This is selfish play. Town should not play like this, but it doesn't make him scum. What does concern me is the selfish play after his statements telling us to play more considerately (formatting, the thing where he said that Release was being too aggressive in a gigantic wall of text). I don't understand his play. He says that walls of text are bad unless they are 100% necessary, but he posts a wall of text whose only purpose is to point out that one player had been too aggressive 12 hours before. Since he stopped posting when there was no pressure on him, I'm very suspicious. For one thing, a townie should care about who is lynched beyond that the person who is lynched is not himself. Hegeo doesn't seem to care, going inactive right now. Scum on the other hand, probably don't care who's lynched except that it isn't a scum. Overall, I'd say that Hegeo has become more sketchy in the last few hours. + Show Spoiler [Milton] + Again, we run into some very illogical posting. His main suspicion against ShiaoPi is that Shiao is playing very similarly as him but a bit later. This is suspicious, but so is his play. Anyways, since the last flurry of activity, Milton's main activity has been one large post in which he both defends himself and attacks ShiaoPi. I think his case was weak, but he at least tried to do something helpful. Also, he seems to be a diluted Release, and as I've said earlier, a player who is much better than me said that newbie scum are rarely aggressive, and Milton's posting has been fairly aggressive. Overall, I'd say that Milton is slightly less suspicious than he was earlier, and his posting has improved. He still seems like a decent candidate, but my gut feeling is that he isn't scum. As I've pointed out before though, my gut isn't very reliable, so I would vote for him. + Show Spoiler [ShiaoPi] + Like Milton, Shiao's posting has improved a fair bit. Actually, as Milton himself pointed out, these players are actually very similar to each other so far. For that reason, I highly doubt that both are scum, as that would assume that both scum are incredibly incompetent. Anyways, since yesterday, Shiao did basically the same thing as Milton. For some reason these two just seem to be mirrors of each other. But the only thing is that Shiao is always just a few posts behind Milton. In a newbie game, I wouldn't be entirely surprised if mirroring another player was ScumShiao (shiao if he were scum)'s method of blending in. That however, is complete WIFOM. I'm just thinking aloud with that. My only thought is that if we lynch one of either Milton or Shiao, we should lynch the other next unless we actually get mafia this cycle (which would be pretty much gg, 7town vs. 1scum). | ||
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ShiaoPi
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
On May 24 2012 06:32 O.Golden_ne wrote: thank god i didn't miss the deadline. I went to sleep and forgot to vote. I'm going to stand by my earlier posts about miltonkram. but before i vote i want to say that i will change to Hegeo in the case that we dont get enough votes for a lynch, i like Mordanis and Releases argument on him. In the case the miltonkram flips town, i'm going seriously question ShiaoPi however. @Hegeo can you please swap your vote of Mufaa, he is most likely modkilled. ##Vote: Miltonkram Golden, this post of you is highly confusing to me. You point out that you stand by your posts about miltonkram and your suspicions therefore. But then you actually consider swapping votes on hegeo, if a no-lynch is looming. Can you explain your logic behind that? With your vote we are at 4 votes on Milton, which makes a switch to hegeo to ensure a lynch highly unlikely. With your vote the only missing ones are solstice and mufaa. As I doubt that mufaa will show up for the deadline it is much more likely that solstice will go with the milton vote to ensure a lynch as he has stated. The other confusing thing about it is your conclusion that if milton flips town I am to be pointed at. Can you enlighten me on that thought process? I did pressure him but only after he started pressuring me and as response to his poorly written cases. | ||
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ShiaoPi
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
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ShiaoPi
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
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ShiaoPi
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
I believe I went after solstice first after getting pressured, as he was the one pressuring me. so how come that you think he had nothing to do with the accusations? | ||
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sciberbia
United States1359 Posts
sciberbia: milton, hegeo, then shiaopi golden: milton, hegeo, then shiaopi shiaopi: milton, then hegeo, not shiaopi mordanis: hegeo, then milton/shiaopi release: hegeo, then milton, then shiaopi solstice: shioapi, hegeo, then milton milton: shioapi hegeo: shioapi, then milton mufaa: ............ Feel free to correct me if I've misrepresented your views. I propose that shioapi is out of the running. He is primarily accused by the two other lynch candidates, as well as solstice. He is viewed as least scummy of the three by me, golden, mordanis, and release On the other hand, milton has 3 votes, and release said he would also be quite interested in voting for him. He is about the same as shiaopi in mordanis's eyes. Hegeo is the primary target of release and mordanis, and is also considered moderately suspicious by all the people we aren't considering lynching. Can we agree to focus on milton vs hegeo? | ||
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
On May 22 2012 16:25 Miltonkram wrote: Release- I like the way you're starting out this game. If we are going to catch scum we need to be aggressive about it. Don't worry too much about the tone of your posts. sciberbia's post does seem a bit suspicious. He repeats his ideas several times in different ways to make it look like he's putting out more info than he actually is. It seems quite scummy to me. Mordanis- Don't get too offended by aggressive behavior. If mafia doesn't actually think that a little pressure will lead to a lynch, then why should they answer any questions at all? We need to make sure that people are held accountable to what they say. sciberbia- What do you have to say about the accusations pointed at you? There's quite a bit of fluffy information in your post. Let's try to keep the conversation more focused on who might be scum, everything else is secondary. On May 22 2012 18:47 ShiaoPi wrote: Just came back from university. First of all we should definetly go for a lynch, no-lynch is (at least in my opinion) utter nonsense. Regarding Lurkers, I believe that they should be put under suspicion especially in a 9 player setup. I was in the same game as mufaa and lurking screwed us over pretty badly in a 13 player game. I must say I really like release's approach until now, we won't get anything worthwhile from just being nice to each other. Pressuring is a great way to get some more information and should be utilizied. The only slightly suspicious thing until now was sciberbia's long post and his absence since then, but until he responds there is nothing to make of it. + Show Spoiler + On May 23 2012 06:53 Miltonkram wrote: Alright, I've got a case that I think has some merit. s0Lstice Note that I'm not complaining about his suspicions of me. I think his suspicions are actually a good townie move. His statement about accusations and defense is really good too. This first post is consistent with good townie play. However, an hour later, without even waiting for my defense he posts: My point is he should have kept pressuring me. I realize that he misread my post somewhat, but he uses that last line of text to look like he's still pressuring me in some way. I think a townie would leave the FOS on me until I've actually done something to defend myself. Right now it seems like he's trying to apply just enough pressure to appear town, without actually committing to it. That's consistent with scum play in my eyes. ##FOS: s0Lstice On May 23 2012 05:25 ShiaoPi wrote: @hegeo: So you see me as scummy/suspicious? Let's take a look at your reasoning: I'll follow the chronological order of your post. So first off you scrutinize my first post and come to the conclusion that I am just repeating stuff, which has been said by others already. I actually see nothing wrong in joining a discussion that has already started. To me it seemed as they were asking for everyone's opinion, so I gave my opinion. If stating somebody's stance on something is scummy, well cannot help you then. In your 2nd snippet you take a closer look on my suspicions of Mufaa. I really do not think an issue of semantics is scummy. I also do not phrase it as "What others said" I posted "since we all agree..." If you really want to go into semantics please take note that I am using the plural with myself included, so it is just another way of saying since I and others agree on...." Going on to the 3rd excerpt: You state the following: + Show Spoiler + This post is practically without any new content but a defense. You could have said "I had no time/Wanted to see how things go", whatever... But you chose to say "You're not better than me". This seems like only searching for an excuse once other people target you. I was being put under suspicion so I defended myself, sounds pretty reasonable? You can interpret text in many ways, if we assume that I said "had no time/wanted to see how things go", you can also claim that it looks scummy, it really is a matter of interpretation. I see nothing wrong with my defense, firstly I clarified my stance on sciberbia, then I point out a flaw in his 2nd argument. Next snippet is me repsonding to sciberbia regarding my stance on him and as you take it out of context it looks useless. I believe it to have served it's purpose of further clarifying my opinion. Your suspicions regarding the time I came online and the time I posted "something original" are not understandable to me. I am simply not playing as aggressive as Release is and therefore I naturally lack "original" content, as you already pointed out my playstyle might seem as you phrased it: Seems to me like a not too shabby way to play on Day 1. Not much yet you can base reads off and still quite some time to the deadline, whose approach always brings out the more mattering posts (at least in my opinion). I do not see it contradicting with the usage of pressure to gain information, which you seem to see. I pressured sciberbia very lightly, before now focusing on Mufaa, as he strikes me as most scummiest right now. You both post fairly weak semi-accusations (him by posting a weak case, you by posting on an old case) + Show Spoiler + On May 23 2012 08:39 ShiaoPi wrote: @solstice: If you are not buying my explaination I cannot help you. To me your main argument seemed to be me dropping my suspicions on scriberbia, I answered it and went on to attack you, simply because taking filter size as an argument in beforementioned circumstances seems like a feeble attempt to give a random accusation/suspicion more weight. Therefore you are suspicious in my opinion. On another note you have not answered my other question, regarding you tunneling me all the time when your argumentation which you base it on (contribution, filter size) also fits others. Let's take a look at your post: + Show Spoiler + On May 23 2012 00:15 s0Lstice wrote: We lynch day 1, period. Debating about whether or not to lynch only happens if we have no reads to go off of, which to me makes the debate a non-factor.. We've heard from everyone now I believe, solid reads will come with a little time. Can we stop discussion about policy now please? It creates an environment where scum can comfortably post and be 'CREDIT TO TEAM.' Scumhunting must begin now. I'm looking first to sciberbia. I'm not sure if Release reads you as green, but I currently do. More fluff and I'll change my mind though. Your stated purpose was to generate discussion...mission accomplished. I'll be looking for you to make something out of it. ShiaoPi has a small filter as well. You just like that back off your suspicions on sciberbia? Scum post fluffy quasi-useful posts all the time. They want to appear to be contributing without actually saying anything incriminating. Miltonkram confuses me. You say you don't want people to share town reads because it's giving information to the mafia. What? Scum know who is town and who is not. Scumhunting is ALL ABOUT posting your reads on people. They are accused, and must defend. You smell fishy to me Milton. ##FOS: Miltonkram I am one of the several people you call out. As you share them in the thread I would believe it safe to assume that these were (or maybe still are) your main suspects. The one thing that you combined with calling me out was filter size and my opinion on sciberbia. After I explained my stance on sciberbia all you had to work with was filtersize and my reaction. My reaction was explaining my opinion on sciberbia and an attack on you. You continue to ignore my explaination and just go on about my attack on you. Conclusively, you seem to base your pressure on me by randomness of grabbing the name of the first person who did not post much until then and could be an easy way to seemingly contribute. I quote you now: + Show Spoiler + Scum post fluffy quasi-useful posts all the time. They want to appear to be contributing without actually saying anything incriminating. Keep that in mind as I quote your latest post: + Show Spoiler + On May 23 2012 07:59 s0Lstice wrote: ShiaoPi Notice that all I've done is apply pressure. I've never claimed that a small filter is a scum guarantee. Being relatively quiet is plenty of reason to pressure you, just as it is plenty of reason to pressure me. You've responded with gusto, and that's good for everybody, as we have more to go on. I still don't buy your explanation for why you didn't address my accusation. The fact remains that you attacked instead of explained. You wanting to throw the ball my way is fine, but doing so in lieu of a defense to pretty weak pressure (based on filter size, which I agree with you is weak) is scummy. As such I still suspect you. You wonder why I don't focus on him (Mufaa). Everybody is suspicious of him, me saying so serves no purpose. We know already his name will probably come up for lynch tomorrow because lurkers are at best useless and at worst dangerous. This raises the following question: Why do you call out somebody, if you are not convinced by your own argumentation? To me it seems like you are trying to appear town as you try to build a case on somebody. ##FOS: s0lstice You both go after Solstice And after that you both remain each other's biggest opponent. Especially if you look at the general gameplan, you guys do seem quite similar. | ||
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
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s0Lstice
United States1832 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On May 23 2012 00:15 s0Lstice wrote: ShiaoPi has a small filter as well. You just like that back off your suspicions on sciberbia? Scum post fluffy quasi-useful posts all the time. They want to appear to be contributing without actually saying anything incriminating. This was two pronged pressure. First prong is your filter size, second prong is you backing off your slight pressure on sciberbia. Your response is this: + Show Spoiler + On May 23 2012 00:21 ShiaoPi wrote: If you reread my first post on sciberbia I would have assumed that it was easily visible that I had a bit of concern regarding him but not really a suspicion. Regarding my small filter, yes I did not post much until now, but how come that you with the exact same amount of posts (since the daypost) can claim that my filter is small. This strikes me as odd. Why complain about my filter if yours is not that much as well? You explained your view on sciberbia. This answered the question: why did you back off sciberbia? The second question was: why is your filter small? You answered: yes my filter is small, why is your filter small? I look at that and think: he just answered a question with a question. And more, his question was an accusation at his accuser. He would now discredit the questioner/have the discussion be about me instead of him. The scum motivation for this is to get the focus off yourself. I don't really see a town motivation for not answering a simple question. This got me suspicious of you. You address this specifically in a reply to hegeo's pressure: + Show Spoiler + On May 23 2012 05:25 ShiaoPi wrote: I was being put under suspicion so I defended myself, sounds pretty reasonable? You can interpret text in many ways, if we assume that I said "had no time/wanted to see how things go", you can also claim that it looks scummy, it really is a matter of interpretation. I see nothing wrong with my defense, firstly I clarified my stance on sciberbia, then I point out a flaw in his 2nd argument. Here you acknowledge that you didn't answer the second part of accusation, and instead accused your accuser. This maintained my suspicion. What you called 'pointing out a flaw,' I called bringing in a separate and unrelated issue (my filter size) to deflect the pressure. A quick note on my filter:+ Show Spoiler + I'm not saying I'm not accountable for my content. I will answer for it if someone has a problem with it. I know you did before ShiaoPi. My content has been: to build a case on you, take the time to read all the other major cases in the thread and comment on them, some defense, promote discussion early on, and discourage needless focus on an obvious lurker. Now this: + Show Spoiler + On May 23 2012 07:12 ShiaoPi wrote: Contributionwise I admit that there was not much from me yet. I gave my opinion on the cases others have posted and pointed out that we have a hardcore-lurker (which is more than just a "half-baked metacomment") right now. Really contributing as in lots of activity and some cases, are Release, sciberbia, hegeo and Mordanis. That makes 3 other people besides yourself, whose list of contributions is just as "meager" as mine and still you do not tunnel them. Why? Because of my small filter? But what about Mufaa's? Your argument of small filter = scum/should be pressured seems to go haywire with your case against me, so I naturally suspect you. Here you defend your lacking filter, and I believe this is the first time. You basically say that you have commented on other cases and pointed out a lurker. That stuck out like a sore thumb, it seemed to me a paltry contribution, even with your comments on your playstyle. The follow-up is also very telling. You again shift the focus by bringing in other names, and then go on the attack again. I see this as scummy. You speak more on it here: + Show Spoiler + On May 23 2012 08:39 ShiaoPi wrote: If you are not buying my explaination I cannot help you. To me your main argument seemed to be me dropping my suspicions on scriberbia, I answered it and went on to attack you, simply because taking filter size as an argument in beforementioned circumstances seems like a feeble attempt to give a random accusation/suspicion more weight. Therefore you are suspicious in my opinion. To me the character of these words is summed up as 'I wont respond to weak pressure. You want me to talk, you have to seriously pressure me.' This is not inherently scummy or town; it is important for all players to be economical with their words, and pick their battles. What it made me want to do is pressure you more, and follow through with my initial read. Concerning your activity, its all well and good if you want to play laid back on day 1, but you also have to understand that this is another strike against you as scum typically play this way. You dont come down hard on anyone but me (the one going hard after you), and a lurker. Your defense on this appears to be, 'this is how I play day 1 guys.' This on it's own isn't a big knock against you, but when added to everything else it certainly isn't nothing. One last thing on this: the posts where you site a passive day 1 playstyle when others. This would have functioned as a response for me. Was this not simpler, more town? You address this here: + Show Spoiler + On May 23 2012 05:25 ShiaoPi wrote: I was being put under suspicion so I defended myself, sounds pretty reasonable? You can interpret text in many ways, if we assume that I said "had no time/wanted to see how things go", you can also claim that it looks scummy, it really is a matter of interpretation. I see nothing wrong with my defense, firstly I clarified my stance on sciberbia, then I point out a flaw in his 2nd argument. yet here you say: + Show Spoiler + On May 23 2012 05:25 ShiaoPi wrote: I am simply not playing as aggressive as Release is and therefore I naturally lack "original" content, as you already pointed out my playstyle might seem as you phrased it: Seems to me like a not too shabby way to play on Day 1. Not much yet you can base reads off and still quite some time to the deadline, whose approach always brings out the more mattering posts (at least in my opinion). You say you didn't want to cite your playstyle in the first defense because it could be interpreted as scummy, yet you go on to cite it anyway when further pressure was applied. The way you talk about your play seems very inconsistant. So I need to wrap this up because vote time nears. I hope this makes it clear why I suspect you. | ||
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ShiaoPi
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
In the 2nd one you quote my defense against hegeo's case on me. There is nothing similar in his suspicion of solstice and my defense, the only thing, which could qualify in that way was me calling out Mufaa yet again (I already did earlier and therefore just took it as an example in the context in my post.) Compare that to Milton: First of he claims to have a "case with merit", which is just as weak as any other he has posted thus far. He also drops it really quick for something with "merit". The 3rd one is part of my case against solstice. I went after him since he called me out with weak reasoning, I would have assumed that the process from pressure to FOS was pretty transparent and well-thought in comparison to his "case" against solstice. Just as another reminder, he actually dropped his pressure on solstice, while I am still more or less slugging it out with him. | ||
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s0Lstice
United States1832 Posts
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sciberbia
United States1359 Posts
1) the coincidence debacle with hegeo was following milton's first post 2) after my initial post accusing milton, hegeo made a random, long post about release, perhaps trying to distract our attention from milton. He followed this up with an accusation against shiaopi, and milton has recently been attacking shiaopi as well 3) hegeo gave a half-defense of milton when prompted 4) milton has remarkably said nothing at all about hegeo I know there is no solid evidence here, but I'm becoming increasingly inclined to agree with Release that they are both mafia. I'd be happy with lynching either. But we ABSOLUTELY MUST lynch somebody. There's an hour left so please start voting people! | ||
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
-Lurk until there is pressure on you -Respond to pressure with mostly defensive statements -When that doesn't work, begin to put counter-pressure on your attacker -Bandwagon on me once you see that I'm a prime lynch I'd post more direct analysis, but once again, time is running short. Everyone, I hope you can figure out why this is scummy activity in my eyes. If I get lynched today, I hope you keep this in mind. The pressure seems to be off ShiaoPi right now, so unless I can miraculously convince you all to vote for him I guess I'll have to switch my targets. | ||
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sciberbia
United States1359 Posts
@hegeo I think we are pretty much decided on lynching one of you. If either of you are town, it only makes sense to vote for the other. I ask that you do so now. | ||
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s0Lstice
United States1832 Posts
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
On May 24 2012 07:20 Mordanis wrote: Also, can other people say what they think about Hegeo's lack of activity? Just over 12 hours ago, he said he just woke up, but he only posted once in that time... Am I the only one who sees this as incredibly suspicious when he just became a secondary target? | ||
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