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Hi everybody!
I am counting on people giving me a break to read the thread, so don't expect too much from me immediately. At least I am replacing in fairly early into the game.
It's about time I won a game so I will be putting in the effort here. The roster looks good and from my initial read some of the vets are looking pretty townie so we have no reason not to win.
Note: To help get an idea on people's thoughts, please ask me some specific questions. It is always hard when catching up to get a feel for people because the timing of posts is hard to work out. So fire away and I will do my best.
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Still reading but for now can you guys slow down on the spam. It is really hard to catch up when there is a new page every two minutes. Try and condense your posts please.
Oh and VE, what happened to your suspicion of Kita?
I am having difficulty reconciling his Day 1 "lyncher" play with him being town and both you and MZ had him labelled as suspicious but he hasn't been mentioned since.
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On May 30 2012 12:26 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 08:15 VisceraEyes wrote:
There you have it. Nice work Matt.
Forumite had me fooled, though I guess since his target was scum that was going to be EZPZ to do. I was afraid of the assassin/lyncher needing to target scum, that was going to make finding them exceedingly hard since they could just scumhunt like normal. Thank God scum took care of it for us. ^^
Now, who's the lynch today? I'm liking a lynch inside of (Zealos, supersoft, Kitaman) presently. What does everyone else think? He's on the radar, but I don't know if there's enough support for his lynch yet. As you say, no one is really mentioning him and aside from a few people thinking his play is "odd" it doesn't seem like many people find him suspicious. I'm trying to get a GOOD lynch to happen, not MY lynch. MY lynch would be Kita.
Given that Kita has gone after you it would be great if you could summarise your case against him. His play to me is double-sided. I can't understand the motivation behind the Lyncher thing but everything else he has done looks townie.
Secondly, regarding supersoft you wrote this but never actually posted your details.
On May 30 2012 04:40 VisceraEyes wrote:
In short, I think he's suspicious. I'll go into detail when I get to a computer but like you I've been underwhelmed with his posts since the flip and he was pseudo suspicious yesterday.
Especially the details about his pseudo suspicious behaviour. I read his nightime schenanigans as trying to avoid a shot. He went so completely wacko that it would be weird to believe he was being open about his intentions.
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On May 30 2012 13:33 kitaman27 wrote:
The first player we should consider today is VisceraEyes. The entire day one cycle, VE has actively pushed a mafia agenda. He went out of his way to ensure that Toad, essentially a confirmed non-scum, would not be elected. He discredited Toad's canidacy using suspect logic and refused to budge on an issue that clearly was beneficial to town. VE explains that he opposed Toad being elected due to the ability of others to influence his decision making. Toad is not a player so incompetant that the risk of him being influenced via pms outweighs the ability to elect a non-scum into office. Firstly, the mayoral lynch took place before the mason power would be activated so this is not an issue. Secondly, Toad promised to not use his lynching power upon election. This is the word from a player who is almost certainly not mafia. VE is so opposed to the idea of Toad being elected, that he would rather believe that Toad is lying about his intentions. VE insists that he wants a town in office, but not Toad, as there are several other townies in the game. There is one problem with this statement, however. Toad is the only player who has role claimed. Rather than take advantage of this opportunity, he would rather risk the election of an unknown due to an irrelevant concern about manipulation of an ability he has promised not to use.
I noticed this too Kita but how does it make him scum? The role is pretty damn useless as scum would be sacrificing one of their own if they used it. Toad however is difficult to read and is not beyond doing things that look incredibly scummy. I can understand a certain trepidation in putting him into office. It is not like VE was advocating putting scum into the role. As you say Toad could be confirmed the next day and so it would make sense to use that as leverage to ensure scum don't get the role but it seems VE just wasn't comfortable with Toad being in a position of power. Why is that scum motivated and not a paranoid townie?
Show nested quote +On May 28 2012 15:20 VisceraEyes wrote:
I mean, I spelled it out myself.
Okay, so I like Kita/Sinensis for scum so far...which is actually kinda disturbing, what do you think about 2 scum pretty much just claiming in thread like that? The confidence coming from this post is not townlike. At this point, the only policies I have pushed is electing a candidate who hasn't announced their intentions for running for mayor and to elect Toad as pardoner. Sinensis has only pushed a policy lynch, which may have been a poor idea, but wasn't inherantly scummy. In response, makes a blanket statement about us claiming scum. Throughout the thread, VE has been asking players their opinion of other players, but has yet to produce a valid case against a player. He announces that I would be his prefered lynch, yet refuses to push it due to lack of support. If he was willing to push me yesterday, why back off today? You don't ignore your primary scum suspect because everyone else thinks he is town, you convince them with a compelling case. I was attacked primarily for my support of Toad, yet now that Toad has been confirmed as a mason, his opinion of me has not changed? Hopefully more to come in a bit.
This is more damning and is why I have asked him to respond. I agree that he should have pushed your case harder if he truly believed you were scum. Barely mentioning it after the night kill is not letting town get their way, it is abandoning your read for apparently no reason.
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On May 30 2012 13:51 strongandbig wrote:
Also Also - Toad! great to hear that you actually could Mason someone. Let me ask you a question: can you explain a little bit about what your "anti-manipulation power" is? I guess it's okay if you don't want to so you can use it later in secret or w/e but if it was a lie it'd be fine to admit it imo now that we know the rest of your claim is true, as long as you explain it. It's just that something outlandish like a "power that keeps you from being manipulated by the person you're masoning with" doesn't really make sense to me, since that would require the host to jump into your PM convos somehow, and it's the main thing still making me doubt your claim.
Why would a townie ask this? It provides no useful information for town as we know Toad is a mason so who cares about what his magical power is. All this does is out more information to mafia. Rather than make them guess, you would rather Toad told them outright.
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On May 30 2012 14:14 Mattchew wrote:
Btw i am reading along with prob's posts and they are awesome I <3 Prob (ps this could be our first game as town together?!)
Could be, depends if you're town or not. You're not making much sense 
If I get your thinking right, it goes like this
- You're town and you claim a shot and only scum know that you were "not" shot by scum.
- SnB says you were shot by a vig
- Because he discounted the possibility of you being shot by scum, he knows you weren't shot by scum, and so is scum.
The problem is that this assumes you're town. In SnB's eyes, you looked like scum so of course any shot your way would come from a vig. I don't understand the basis of your trap and WBG is right to get pissed at you for lying about it.
I suggest we all grow up, drop the issue and lynch based on posting rather than one's interpretation of a failed trap.
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On May 30 2012 14:23 sToFu wrote:
Hi, it'd be cool if we lessened the spam to make it easier to catch up on the thread. Thanks.
There's a couple things that I'm concerned about
1. Can anyone explain to me why supersoft was posting the (I mean no offense by this) dumbest stuff N1, and come daytime everyone effectively ignores it? Admittedly, he's not quite the scummiest player (Zealos), but I'd think it would still be worth discussing.
2. Why are we lynching gambit when the lynch provides little to no information. The same logic that applies to gambit largely applies to the other lurkers of this game - including me. Why gambit in particular, and what's the point of lynching a lurker when we are not only unsure if he's just inactive/bad or scum? Bugs seems to be avoiding the question.
3. Where's Wiggles? Did he post saying he would be gone? I don't recall seeing a post of his for a very long time.
Finally, I believe someone called me out on giving specifics about my reads and providing concrete evidence. My answers: scummiest is Zealos, but if I were compulsive vig, I would have hit supersoft, mostly just to get him to stop posting stupid stuff and bogging down the thread. Furthermore, I feel that, given supersoft's more numerous actions, his death and the subsequent flip would provide more info than Zealos. At the same time, however, Zealos is active enough to defend himself if it comes to that, which provides more information.
Hi there sToFu maybe I can shed some light on the matter.
Scum shoot at night. Scum want to shoot people who are unlikely to get lynched. Supersoft acted really dumb to look scummy so he didn't get shot. This post explains it
On May 30 2012 08:13 supersoft wrote:
i really hope you guys realize that my nightplay has different goals than my dayplay. -_- Now I wasn't here for Day 1 and after reading the thread supersoft wasn't on my scum list. So please tell me, why do you think he is scum based off of his early play? Right now I have no feeling one way or the other and that is bad so any insight would be good.
@Supersoft - you were given a free ride to post like crap now please provide something of use.
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On May 30 2012 14:32 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 13:55 Probulous wrote:On May 30 2012 12:26 VisceraEyes wrote:On May 30 2012 08:15 VisceraEyes wrote:
There you have it. Nice work Matt.
Forumite had me fooled, though I guess since his target was scum that was going to be EZPZ to do. I was afraid of the assassin/lyncher needing to target scum, that was going to make finding them exceedingly hard since they could just scumhunt like normal. Thank God scum took care of it for us. ^^
Now, who's the lynch today? I'm liking a lynch inside of (Zealos, supersoft, Kitaman) presently. What does everyone else think? He's on the radar, but I don't know if there's enough support for his lynch yet. As you say, no one is really mentioning him and aside from a few people thinking his play is "odd" it doesn't seem like many people find him suspicious. I'm trying to get a GOOD lynch to happen, not MY lynch. MY lynch would be Kita. Given that Kita has gone after you it would be great if you could summarise your case against him. His play to me is double-sided. I can't understand the motivation behind the Lyncher thing but everything else he has done looks townie. Hmm, you don't understand why I wouldn't want a lyncher elected? I understand that fully and is not the problem I have with you bringing it up. You've been far more townie since then so I am not going to write it all up as I don't see the point. If someone brings up something else on you that I've missed than I might revisit it.
The role isn't useless as scum because a strong player can argue for the use of a pardon and the role kills us at lylo. As far as I can see, there was nothing to be paranoid about. Toad put himself in a situation where his word could be trusted and he gave his word that he wouldn't use the pardoner role. A paranoid townie is the one who doesn't pass on the opportunity to elect toad into office, because the other candidates may be scum. To me this is all based on your opinion of Toad's reliability and I am not willing to lynch VE based on his reservations around Toad. For the record I agree with you that it makes sense to vote Toad in but I can understand someone not agreeing.
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On May 30 2012 14:30 Mattchew wrote:But my trap worked to perfection. I fail to see how I was scummier than WBG or MZ before the night post, so why are their claims taken at face value and mine not. I told the thread early on I would not be active, I have now been posting for almost 24 hours straight (no sleep or breaks) to get back involved in this game. Up until snb, ET was the only one to post suspicions about my shot claim + Show Spoiler [ET post about my shot] +On May 30 2012 08:32 EchelonTee wrote:
Mattchew the last KP, unless someone claims a medic protect. I'm curious why he got shot.
, however with both of them not knowing of WBG's claim there is a huge difference in the posts about my claimed hit. ET expressed curiosity as to why I was shot (because IMO he is honestly confused about scum shooting me) while SnB immediately looks for the vig that shot me. I think he was posting to find a vig to claim the shot because he knew it wasn't mafia's doing.
Ok Matt, I understand. The fact that you claimed your shot first and that he dismissed you as a possible scum shot is pretty bad. I thought you had claimed after the others but by my reading you were first. So in essence the question boils down to
"Why would someone believe that scum used all their kill point on Forumite and so Matt was shot by a vig; over Matt being shot by scum?"
Is that right?
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On May 30 2012 14:52 Mattchew wrote:
@Prob @Wiggles and @WBG (and everyone else really)
You can say my filter is weak, but I don't think anything about it screams scummy. I was simply unable to participate in the game until recently. You could go so far to say that I looked a little Blue, but if scum were to have shot me I believe they would have been just shooting at a relatively experienced player that was basically guaranteed to not be protected. If you think my filter looks that much worse than WBG and you believe his claim I would like to know why? I understand he subbed into the game having much less time to post, but that still does not make a difference when push comes to shove about the overall content of both of our filters.
Also, you can say that lying to town is bad. I agree most of the time, but I haven't heard an answer to "how this lie can hurt town or push an anti-town agenda?".
Another point is why would I, as scum, claim, knowing that MZ and WBG were shot and still alive and likely to (I see no reason they wouldn't) claim. I would have been the obvious choice for lynch for lying according to you all, and even if I wasn't I would have been sacrificing myself to an actual vig shot / next day lynch that I don't think has any benefit as scum.
Don't misrepresent my words I never said anything about you being scum. I said that SnB might have responded like he did even if he is town. In otherwords your trap was stupid.
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On May 30 2012 14:55 kitaman27 wrote:
S&B and Manason are still sketchy. I want a more developed case from each of them that adds something to the thread.
What does this mean? Are they scum or dumb town?
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=336250¤tpage=62#1229
Good god Matt calm down. That point of that post was that SnB might have thought you weren't town. No need to get your panties in a knot.
On May 30 2012 14:59 Mattchew wrote:nope cause i think MZ claimed a hit sometime in there. Its why did he assume the doublestack of forum (or assume another unclaimed hit) and put me in the vig target only list... Maybe this is just me but if I were an observer of the situation I wouldn't care about who was hit by what until the claimed hits were greater than the mafia KP. This wasn't the case Ok here is the order of events
- Matt claims shot
- Meapak claim hit
- SnB questions Matt's claim
So at that point there were two shots claimed plus a kill, totalling three which accounts for all scum KP. So yeah, odd he would assume vig shot when there was plenty of scum KP available.
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Dear stronandbig
RE: You're attempts to ruin my lovely town
It is regrettable that I have to bring this up but some of your posting has been somewhat lacklustre. This post in particular worries me.
On May 30 2012 13:51 strongandbig wrote:
Also Also - Toad! great to hear that you actually could Mason someone. Let me ask you a question: can you explain a little bit about what your "anti-manipulation power" is? I guess it's okay if you don't want to so you can use it later in secret or w/e but if it was a lie it'd be fine to admit it imo now that we know the rest of your claim is true, as long as you explain it. It's just that something outlandish like a "power that keeps you from being manipulated by the person you're masoning with" doesn't really make sense to me, since that would require the host to jump into your PM convos somehow, and it's the main thing still making me doubt your claim.
Please can you explain to me what information you intended to gain from this question? I fear you aim to ruin our atmosphere and I have a lovely picnic planned for the weekend.
Lots of lynching love
Probulous
PS: As a little motivation here's a vote that isn't moving until you answer
##Vote: strongandbig
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On May 30 2012 23:42 supersoft wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 23:08 Mattchew wrote:On May 30 2012 22:45 supersoft wrote:okay how many people took bullets? MZ took a hit wherebugsgo took a hit both of them were saved. Forumite took a hit aswell. Vigs who shot one of them must claim now. On May 30 2012 09:11 Mattchew wrote:
Hey guys... I wasn't shot... But strongandbig fell into my trap cause he knew this (Aka his team didn't shoot me)... If the trap failed it would have made scum believe there was a vig shot already used or an sk or something (Aka giving them fake game info) so it seemed like a win-win this is so strange. Might be scum panicking after he saw that no townplayer died. I didn't even wait for WBG to claim his hit, how is that panicking... Did you read the post in context to the entire thread or just in my filter or quoted somewhere? fuck you okay? I hate to deal with idiots like you. Of course i read that shit in the context. Noone claimes so far. You claimed before any PMs went out that told people they were hit. Scumteam know who they hit. obviously they dont have to wait for claims to know who was hit. WTF dude.
@Supersoft, I know Matthew mentioned this but you never answered. How do you know that Matt claimed the hit before the hit PMs were sent out? He claimed after the Day post so my assumption would be that people knew if they had been hit. WBG and MZ never said anything about the PMs being late.
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It's bugging me because he is sure of it to the point that he uses it to bash Matt.
Maybe it is nothing but I would like answer.
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Can someone link me the case against Zealos.
He looks like an overwhelmed newb to me  Is this something a newb scum would suggest?
On May 28 2012 18:34 Zealos wrote:
Thoughts on Mayor: If possible, would the best mayor be the one that chooses the day1 lynch based off of a vote from town? Seems like this would be the most pro-town play?
Particularly given the advice wasn't followed. Yes he has been lurky as hell but so have other posters and he seems geniunely frustrated
On May 30 2012 05:48 Zealos wrote:
I struggle to see why people think me defending Toad is scummy lol.
I am a townie, because of this, I am posting under the assumption that everyone knows I'm town. Hence why, if I defend someone, its because I think they deserve to be defended. If I post accusations, it will be because I think they are scummy. I'm sorry I haven't posted a great deal yet, like I said, my exam is tomorrow, and so I'll be able to post more then.
What is the case besides him lurking?
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On May 31 2012 08:45 supersoft wrote:
solve of the mysterious riddle you struggle with: I thought your mason PM would be the first PM that goes out because everyone waited for that in the thread and Greymist obviously should have noticed that.
Don't hype that shit.
Thanks, that is all I wanted. Like I said it was bugging me that is all.
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On May 31 2012 08:50 VisceraEyes wrote:
Evidence? There's resistance. Solution? Kill 'em. Let's kill 'em. Together.
You can do better than that. If you want my vote, convince me.
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On May 31 2012 08:55 supersoft wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2012 08:50 Probulous wrote:On May 31 2012 08:45 supersoft wrote:
solve of the mysterious riddle you struggle with: I thought your mason PM would be the first PM that goes out because everyone waited for that in the thread and Greymist obviously should have noticed that.
Don't hype that shit. Thanks, that is all I wanted. Like I said it was bugging me that is all. i have a different explanation. You were blue fishing weren't you? Docs and Jailers should get a PM if the save something, too right?
Face meet palm
How exactly is asking how you "knew" that hit PMs were late when you weren't hit, role fishing?
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On May 31 2012 09:02 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2012 07:18 VisceraEyes wrote:On May 28 2012 18:34 Zealos wrote:
Right so, here are my thoughts:
SnB - He's seemed "Fishy" this game so far, and I would be happy to FoS him, however, I don't think there is enough there to say it is a good lynch. I'd like to see him post more thoughts though.
Thoughts on Mayor: If possible, would the best mayor be the one that chooses the day1 lynch based off of a vote from town? Seems like this would be the most pro-town play?
Pardoner: Whoever agree's not to use the power ever seems to be the best bet. Yes, in some select scenario's it might be good to use it, but that seems to just be giving an excuse to any mafia player that could convince people that make him pardoner to use the power.
Now some of my reads: Toad - Seems to be very town provided he can prove it using his "mason" powers. If not, we can lynch him tomorrow.
BE - Leaning on town. His arguments earlier were annoying, but nothing that led me to think he's scum.
Hyaah - ???? Lurker, could well be scum, want to hear what he has to say about the game so far.
If I were to kill someone now: Sinesis - Been said before, but he's tunnelling very hard and doesn't seem willing to add anything to conversation except kill Grush. Who are your other scumreads? Who are you voting for as mayor and why?
I'd also like to note - I'm pretty lurky Day1 atm, I'm pretty busy, however, I'll have finished my last exam come midway through day2, and will become a lot more active then. Bugs I want your thoughts on this post, the bolded in particular. Here are mine. There's a cognitive disconnect between the "Toad seems to be very town" and "provided he can prove it using his 'mason' powers." The first part seems to indicate that he thinks Toad is town based on how he's posting (" looks very town"), while the second part seems to indicate that he does NOT think that Toad looks town and requires the proof of Toad's mason-target claim would provide (" provided he can prove it using his mason powers"). What do you think? Prob can you take a look at this post and my thoughts on it and comment? Bugs is too busy thinking I'm a dumbass to take anything I say seriously.
Weren't you implying the same thing?
You didn't want to vote him into office because he might get manipulated by scum. The way I read it, Zealos is saying that Toad can prove he is town when his mason actions occur. It is unlikely that scum would claim mason so early day 1 so it makes sense to assume Toad is town. But even so waiting till he confirms himself is not a bad play, in fact you were singing from the same song sheet.
This assumption is important
"The first part seems to indicate that he thinks Toad is town based on how he's posting ("looks very town")"
Why do you assume it is based on his posting and not his claim? It seems pretty townie to me to claim mason early.
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On May 31 2012 09:06 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2012 09:03 Probulous wrote:On May 31 2012 08:55 supersoft wrote:On May 31 2012 08:50 Probulous wrote:On May 31 2012 08:45 supersoft wrote:
solve of the mysterious riddle you struggle with: I thought your mason PM would be the first PM that goes out because everyone waited for that in the thread and Greymist obviously should have noticed that.
Don't hype that shit. Thanks, that is all I wanted. Like I said it was bugging me that is all. i have a different explanation. You were blue fishing weren't you? Docs and Jailers should get a PM if the save something, too right? Face meet palm How exactly is asking how you "knew" that hit PMs were late when you weren't hit, role fishing? What he said: You asked him about this to find out wether or not he is one of the medics / jailers who protected someone ELSE. They get a pm as well.
So by asking super how he "knew", I was checking whether he is Jailer or Doc and got a late PM?
Ok I see that. That was not the reason for asking but I can see his point.
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On May 31 2012 09:08 jaj22 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2012 08:48 Probulous wrote:Can someone link me the case against Zealos. He looks like an overwhelmed newb to me Zealos isn't that new. I believe he has four games now, at least two as scum. His town performance in GoT wasn't bad at all, and certainly didn't give the impression of being overwhelmed. Forumite's case against him: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=14866065Since then he's managed a few bad excuses and that's it.It's not a great case, but I don't think we have anything better.
Thanks jaj. What is your position on Zealos?
The reason I want something concrete is that I think Hyacch is a better lynch candidate. Forumite's case boilds down to
- Useless claim for no reason, little content, telling people to get along and drops a vote.
- Defends Toades for no reason at all, it wasn´t even much of a case on Toades, and definetly no wagon. Could be that he´s a town on edge, but I don´t like it.
- Not everyone was jumping on Toades, not that many really. Preemptive defence, could be to gain town credit, or defend a scumbuddy. It doesn´t feel like he´s as suspicious of Toades play as he should be as town.
- Best one of all, Zealos is basically saying he´s suspicious without taking responsibility. I´d like to say it´s scum guilt, a combination of knowing he´s accusing a townie and not wanting to take a stand in case it gets him into trouble once S&B flips.
The Toad doesn't matter because Toad is town (unless I am missing something). He isn't getting credit for his defense so it is pointless. His claim doesn't matter anyway because no-one puts any stock in them. The best point is that Zealos wasn't taking responsibility which applies to others as well. There is a concerted effort to lynch him and I want something substantial to work off.
Let's compare Zealos to Hyaach
On May 28 2012 22:58 Hyaach wrote:
On Kita's vote on me, I have no idea. He knew I wouldn't have a chance, and I was probably one of the newer names in this mafia game that posted decently early into the game. I actually saw his vote, but couldn't bother with it since it does not bother me or the way the thread was going.
Does no-one find this odd?
I mean, I would be like "WTF?" if someone voted for me when I hadn't posted anything of substance and wasn't running in the election.
On May 28 2012 22:58 Hyaach wrote:
Toad claiming mason is something else. Its very hard to prove his alignment as forumite pointed out. He could have claimed to be RBed everynight or until X day where he come clean with a mafia buddy.
So I'm not voting him as well.
This is illogical as we now know. If people are suspicious of VE for doubting Toad than surely this should get a closer look.
On May 28 2012 22:58 Hyaach wrote:
Mr Wiggles actually have a very transparent case so far and his is the best candidate imo.
Note this if followed by
If I could wake up in 8 hours time to reread and revote, I would do it. But for now my vote is
##vote Meapak_Ziphh
and before you say im contradicting myself which I am. I do not just want to wagon a vote, I have as much town read on Mr Wiggles as I have on Meapak_Ziphh. You may say but if you are town you would want to elect a strong candidate into Mayor. But I feel safer voting on town read by myself on someone who doesn't run for Mayor.
I believe most who ran campaigns has an agenda.
So he believes Wiggles is the best candidate but votes for MZ because he reads them as equally townie? This is so contradictory it looks like someone finding an excuse not to vote for Wiggles.
Oh and by the way he never came back to change his vote. I think Hyaach is a better lynch as his flip will hopefully provide an insight into Wiggles (hyaach was determined not to vote for him) and into Kita (who "randomly" picked someone not running as his early vote). Most importantly I think he is more likely to flip mafia than Zealos based on what has been presented.
Thoughts people?
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Kita why were you so worried about the lyncher getting the mayor role?
Based off of Grey's explanation about what they know
Assassin and Lyncher will not be shooting blind
it doesn't sound like they know who their target is day 1. Forumite's flip confirms this, they just know their targets character. So if the mayor was a lyncher they would have the same information as anyone else. It just seems so out of place to get worked up about the remote possibility that the lyncher would risk exposing themselves for the chance to decide a lynch when they have no extra information.
Surely the best play would have been to wait until they know who their target is adn then push for a lynch? You're a vet and well known for getting things right. So for you to miss something so obvious rings false.
Am I missing something?
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On May 31 2012 09:54 austinmcc wrote:I had not been lumping Hyaach in with the other lurkers who have become lynch candidates only because I remembered him lurking in Newbie XIII, and that we had some issues with the time zone making it so he wasn't active when things were happening. Personally I read those contradictions and illogical bits as a result of him being absolutely disinterested in the game. See posts like: + Show Spoiler +On May 28 2012 14:26 Hyaach wrote:
How many hours till this day ends?
placer-vote until i read everything in around 8 hours On May 28 2012 22:58 Hyaach wrote:
Huge headache to read 15 pages of text with lots of emotions and random things inserted here and there.
. . .
If I could wake up in 8 hours time to reread and revote, I would do it. But for now my vote is
. . .
But it is still i think 8 hours till day ends? Plenty of time to decide. On May 31 2012 01:18 Hyaach wrote:
. . .
Gambit. I never read his filter yet.
. . .
Kita i didnt read. I'll admit though, he's actually made an effort to post each cycle as opposed to the rest of the crew, which DOES look scummy to me when compared to people who have had to be warned.
It is possible but remember he did make the effort to explain that Wiggles was the best candidate but he would vote for MZ. If you are completely uninterested in the game, why do that?
The only effort he had made has been to find an excuse not to support Wiggles. Why?
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So you think he is town because he acting like scum?
Jaj, come on. Do you agree that Forumite's case boils down to Zealos not taking responsibility for his actions? To me that applies to every lurker and so by choosing Zealos you are taking a shot in the dark. At least with Hyaach we have some evidence for his motivations.
Zealos keeps saying he will post stuff and that he is busy. I agree that it is detrimental to town to do that, but perhaps, just perhaps, he actually is busy. The point is he is making an effort to at minimum provide an excuse. Compare that to Cwave or phagga and you can see they have not even done that. So surely if you are happy to lynch a lurker, it should be one of them. If his lynch is based on something else, show me.
I suggest a better path, fuck the lurkers and lynch Hyaach as he clearly had motivations for posting what he did. Sure he has disappeared since then but the point is he has made his alignment clear.
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On May 31 2012 10:38 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2012 09:59 Probulous wrote:
The only effort he had made has been to find an excuse not to support Wiggles. Why?
I'm actually willing to take him at his word on his reasoning. Show nested quote +On May 28 2012 22:58 Hyaach wrote:
and before you say im contradicting myself which I am. I do not just want to wagon a vote, I have as much town read on Mr Wiggles as I have on Meapak_Ziphh
You may say but if you are town you would want to elect a strong candidate into Mayor. But I feel safer voting on town read by myself on someone who doesn't run for Mayor.
I believe most who ran campaigns has an agenda.
Having not participated in an election previously, I can accept the train of thought he provided: Wiggles seems town, but Wiggles is running for mayor, therefore, better to vote for some other town read that wasn't pushing himself for mayor. I had the same thought to an extent, but figured if a mass vote-swap right before the election was normally a good idea (because some/many of the candidates could be non-town), it would gain traction on its own.
So voting for someone who will not get elected is townie? Your logic only makes sense if you are around to join in on said mass vote switch. He never changed his vote.
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@VE
Can you provide an explanation why Kita would focus on the lyncher day 1? His actions don't make sense to me but I am having trouble finding the motivation behind them.
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On May 31 2012 11:13 jaj22 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2012 10:39 Probulous wrote:
So you think he is town because he acting like scum?
I'm saying that scum normally make some effort not to have an entire filter full of weird stuff. The town explanation for his posts seems more plausible to me. On Zealos, I agree it's possible that he's just busy. His claim is that he has a lot more free time now, so we'll see if he manages to post something that looks town before the lynch. In that case I'd probably switch to Gambit rather than Hyaach though. Cwave and phagga are lined up for modkills due to not voting on day 1, so there's not much point lynching them. What's this evidence of Hyaach's motivations?
Why would you make an effort to state that Wiggles is the best candidate and then vote for someone else?
The reason given was that Wiggles has an agenda and he would prefer voting for someone not running for mayor, which is a newb way is alright, if and only if you consolidate on a candidate. Otherwise you can vote for anyone and not be held accountable. His motivation is clear, avoid voting for Wiggles and then disappear into the night. This is scum play if Wiggles is town, which is my read.
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On May 31 2012 11:16 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2012 11:14 VisceraEyes wrote:
I can't tell you why Kita does what Kita does. I find it suspicious because it was not relevant to finding scum at all. Like, almost ALL of the discussion about keeping the lyncher out of office was LITERALLY USELESS to finding scum, and that doesn't seem like townie Kita.
Not to mention the fact that scum can third-party hunt in lieu of scumhunt and guess what: IT LOOKS LIKE THEY'RE CONTRIBUTING!!
Case in point: Forumite! Forumite was third-party, and all he had to do was scumhunt to win the game die. Like, he looked so townie by trying to find Zim (who obviously I'm presuming is scum) that combined with the fact that he's a vet made him a target over, say, soon-to-be-"mod-confirmed"*-town-Toad.
So you think Kita is third party?
My running theory is that Kita is mafia who wanted to divert town and discredit Toad. When that was shot down he changed tack and tried to discredit you. The problem I have is that he raised the lyncher thing first. It's like
fearmongering -> discredit Toad -> discredit VE
But that means his whole motivation for the lyncher obsession was to create confusion?
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On May 31 2012 11:21 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2012 11:14 VisceraEyes wrote:
I can't tell you why Kita does what Kita does. I find it suspicious because it was not relevant to finding scum at all. Like, almost ALL of the discussion about keeping the lyncher out of office was LITERALLY USELESS to finding scum, and that doesn't seem like townie Kita.
Not to mention the fact that scum can third-party hunt in lieu of scumhunt and guess what: IT LOOKS LIKE THEY'RE CONTRIBUTING!!
It was relevant because it increased the chances of keeping an anti-town player out of office. You act as if I spammed up the thread with lyncher discussion. I only mentioned it a couple of times. Electing toad was the main policy I pushed. Prob, why are you asking VE his opinion about this topic? Are you trying to fuel the flames?
Because he is here. You seemed to have disappeared.
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Ok here is my case against Kita and it isn't complete and it has holes that I can't reconcile, maybe someone else can shed some light on it
To the rest of the town who aren't around look at Kita's posts about the Lyncher knowing that the Lyncher does not know who their target is.
With a lyncher possibly in play, its extremeley likely that he has decided to run for mayor. I suggest we elect someone who has not declared their candidacy yet. (Klicky)
Big assumption which I pointed out earlier doesn't hold up. Sure Kita thought they did know their target but if that is the case surely you would want to be sure before suggesting we base the whole voting system on it. He never asks the thread of their opinions about how likely it is that a lyncher knows their target, he just assumes it and then run riot based on that assumption.
Then when Toad claims his response is not "Oh Toad is probably town but we can figure that out tomorrow" it's
Hmm, mason would be a great claim for a lyncher. Doesn't matter if he's telling the truth on day two since he's already won by then.As much as I'd like to see a town role elected, we can't automatically assume toad is town.
Sure he goes onto to support Toad as Pardoner but is absolutely convinced that
A) There is a lyncher
B) They know their target and so would run for mayor to win on the first day
C) That a mason claim makes Toad that lyncher
Then he closes down discussion on the topic with this
Lets end the discussion right now. Toad is our pardoner. It's the best of both worlds. It ensures we don't have a scum pardoner, which is the more dangerous of the two roles and it protects us from a mayor lyncher. If you're town toad, then great we denied the role. If not, then we don't really care if you would prefer mayor. (Klicky)
Which assumes that Toad is a lyncher based off of his mason claim? It is totally non-sensical and does not fit with my image of Kita as a town player.
After this VE and Kita get into a back and forth about Toad being town where Kita makes a lot of sense. I've stated earlier that Kita started off looking really bad and has since improved. I am trying to work out what motivation someone would have to be so obsessive about the possibility of lyncher and be so wrong about how it works.
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On May 31 2012 11:25 austinmcc wrote:
His motivation is clear to you because you're not fully considering poorly-thought-out play. If you're happy to vote a different candidate because everyone running might have had an agenda, then that reasoning still stands even once you need to consolidate. You're suspicious of Wiggles AND every other candidate for the same reason, so why consolidate your vote on ANY of them?
If you accept that as possible reasoning, then his motivation isn't clear any more, because he could have been acting according to his suspicion of all candidates. That's the only reasoning I've got for him not swapping his vote at the end.
But it is still i think 8 hours till day ends? Plenty of time to decide.
He never came back and never stated that he was suspicious of Wiggles. How are his actions any different from a scum trying to avoid the responsibility of choosing a mayor? If you were truly suspicious of everyone running for mayor than you would never vote in a mayor. That position only works early in the running but came deadline you need to choose one of the candidates unless you have a good reason. He did not and he didn't bother even confirming his reasoning. He stated it once and said it was subject to change but never followed up. He just left.
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On May 31 2012 11:35 kitaman27 wrote:
Your post doesn't have a conclusion prob. I assumed lynchers know their target because it would be an imbalanced role otherwise. I've never played in a game where a player's win condition is to lynch an unknown target.
That is because I haven't come up with a conclusion. I can't read you so far, so well done if you're scum. I can sort of understand your play if you truly believed that, but it seems really odd to get so focused without checking your base assumptions. It fits a scum you better than town, but since then you have been open and active.
I just want other people to contribute because right now I am drawing a blank. I still think Hyaach is a good lynch.
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On May 31 2012 11:39 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Wow this thread is dumb. I got out of my tutoring job early and am coming home now so I can sort this mess out. In the meantime everyone is going to do a little homework and reread my case on VE.
Thanks for the case Meapak, I have in fact read it and I have one question. Why?
You rightly point out that VE went after Toad preventing him from being elected as pardoner. I fail to see how that makes him scum. There was no lynch happening and Toad would be confirmed by the next day. Scum would know this and so it makes little sense to try and discredit Toad when you can't get him lynched. I mean all it does is allow someone else to get the pardoner role.
Along that line of thought, do you think ET or Wiggles are possibly VE's scumbuddy? That VE tried to shift the spotlight away from them and onto Toad so that they could get voted in easily? They have both been very quiet since the election. Your case is thorough but it fails to explain what purpose his actions serve for mafia.
In essence
VE calls for the death of a guy who will be forced to prove his claim tomorrow. There’s literally no way for toad to not produce and if he doesn’t then he’s signed his own death warrant. There is no reason to kill him and yet that’s what VE wants.
Why would he do this?
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@WBG, regardless of VE, what do you think Hyaach?
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Behold the great Manason!
He can tell who is scum by his daily bowel movements.
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On May 31 2012 12:54 wherebugsgo wrote:
That's not the problem. The problem is that you jump ship every time a new name comes along. You ask irrelevant and distracting questions (like why am I not focused on scummy MZ over here) when it's public knowledge that the primary reason MZ is not and probably never will be suspicious is because of a game mechanic (his shot claim)
@WBG, what makes you think MZ is scummy? This looks like a pretty townie post to me.
On May 30 2012 04:43 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 04:22 supersoft wrote:On May 30 2012 04:10 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
hey supersoft, do something useful and write an analysis on me and wiggles. what is this? "write an analysis" I already posted what I think about you an wiggles. Why don't you tell me what you think about wiggles? Do you think it's normal townbehaviour, to be elected to chose the lynch and not participate at the final discussion about it?And another question: Do you REALLY think I am scum?! Or do you even know I am not. I really don't care about wiggles behavior before the lynch and since you didn't bother taking any strong actions before the lynch you're just as bad as he is so stop whining. And no I don't think you're scum, unlike you I've been reading between the lines and I've picked up things. What I'm trying to do now is make sure you don't do anything stupid.
Seems odd to notice supersoft's craziness for what it was and then point it out in the thread. If he was scum, supersoft would be dead right?
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Hmm, quote mix up?
Yeah I have been reading Forumite and Supersoft's filters and this post seems to be the crux of the case against Zealos
On May 28 2012 05:52 supersoft wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2012 02:31 Zealos wrote:On May 28 2012 01:47 Forumite wrote:On May 28 2012 01:44 Zealos wrote:
I think we're being a bit too quick to rush and attack Toad for something reasonably small. Although his entire election campaign was him showing off, the logic was at least there is some way or another. I certainly don't plan on voting for him based off of it though. Why are you defending Toades? Because that's my opinion of the game so far. It seems like everyone is ready to jump on, without really looking at rest of the game.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I know scum defend townies all the time and Toad hadn't claimed at this point so there was no reason to assume he was innocent. I could get down with a Zealos lynch if my Hyaach lynch is not gaining the traction required.
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ROFL Meapak, you're fun to play with. Your second half matches up nicely with what WBG was saying about VE jumping all over the place.
Can you answer my earlier question
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=336250¤tpage=78#1559
Do you think VE actually wanted to get Toad lynched. He is clearly focused on him but I fail to see the upside for mafia. No-one is going to lynch Toad so why bangd on about it? To hide in plain sight?
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How we haven't lynched yet?
I mean it should have been obvious that Toad would be confirmed when he announced who he was masoned with and that person confirmed it (in this case you). The rest of your case is great but a large proportion is about a scum VE discrediting Toad, which would never lead to his lynch.
VE definitely wanted toad dead, however he didn't want to do the dirty work.
TLDR: Toad would be confirmed town before the lynch vote, why discredit him?
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Oh shit I forgot that Wiggles lynched Sinensis. Sorry Meapak, I blame it on replacing in.
Ok so he was trying to convince Wiggles to lynch Toad.
Well he has claimed vigilante now.
@VE did you get your shot back?
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Well before VE posts what he thinks his breadcrumb is this is what I pick up from his filter.
Regarding Zealos (Klicky)
ET what do you think about Zealos? Still think he's scummyscumscum?
Which is hardly damning. Especially when compared to his only other read posted before the day post
Regarding Supersoft (Klicky)
In short, I think he's suspicious. I'll go into detail when I get to a computer but like you I've been underwhelmed with his posts since the flip and he was pseudo suspicious yesterday.
Reading that blind, it looks like if he was going to shoot anyone it would be supersoft, not Zealos.
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Oh and these were his last posts before the day post that mentioned suspicions on people. To me if you are going to crumb, doing it close to the deadline makes more sense than any other time. Simply because that is where people are going to look.
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Can you at least link your crumb?
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That's not helping VE.
Put together your Kita case. If you are town and end up getting lynched, then at least we have something concrete to use. Right now you are making yourself look worse.
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Wow the crazies are lining you up VE.
First Maju and now the speaking intestine himself. Seriously Manason, can you post something of substance that doesn't relate to your "movements".
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Ok I am back and specifically came into work early to catch up.
The case against VE is based primarily on the following
- He tried to discredit Toad
- He has jumped all over the place with his votes and didn't follow through on his supicions, but rather sheeped others.
- He tried to shoot Zealos but then gave him a bye the next day
His claim has no effect on his alignment because we cannot prove it. The assumption that we have a watcher is stupid because as has been pointed out, the only way that works is if we out the watcher. If the watcher is useful they would be following VE who might actually shoot someone in which case we lose two blues for a red. It's a dumb plan and is based on assumptions we can't make.
What do we do if VE claims roleblock tomorrow and there is no watcher?
No we have to make up our minds based on his posting. The MZ case has holes which I have alluded to especially around discrediting Toad. MZ's logic has gone from VE wanting Toad dead to now creating "subtle" doubt about him. It makes no sense and is a large part of both of MZ case. I don't buy it.
Next, note that the people who are hesitant about this lynch seem pretty townie to me. I like Mattchew, I don't see why scum would pull the stunt he did. I like austin, he is making sense. I am town. WBG had doubts, ET had doubts. These are townie responses to a case that doesn't explain WHY VE would act the way he did if he was scum. It is easy to point out stuff that looks scummy, but much harder to explain why scum would do that.
Note how Kita has dissapeared and let others do his bidding. Remember he was the one that started this whole thing with his base case on VE. I don't like this wagon, there is no coutner push, no other option, nothing. It is simply the loudest players bullying through their choice of target.
Finally, yes VE looks desperate but he giving us everything we ask for. He reads as desperately town to me and I will stand by that. I will not be voting for him today.
Supersoft, what is deal? You hardly post anything and then when you do it is a stupid plan that is bound to fail. Wiggles, get your fat ass in here because as mayor you should have a spine. MZ, get your head out of your ass and think for a second about what VE would do if he was town.
Right now Kita is the best choice of lynch. He started this VE train and has gently nudged it along letting others do the dirty work. I can deal with a Zealos lynch if it means VE survives.
People think for yourselves in this matter, there is no reason for town to bully through a lynch like this, especially when we lost third party last night. For once we have a little leeway and can actually question, instead MZ is acting like a bull in china shop and that helps no-one.
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Oh and Marv you are articulating exactly my thoughts. I don't like this lynch one bit.
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On June 01 2012 07:04 EchelonTee wrote:I think he's scum based a lot off of MZ's case; his fixation on the lyncher role (and being against Toad despite the fact that he had 0 chance of being scum), and his continous flipfloppiness and lack of focus. I'll admit that I was against toad being elected simply because I don't like him having power (<3), but I articulated that it was very unlikely that Toad was scum, while VE tried to cast suspicion on him, even after the night actions and he had become masoned. VE claims to be intent on scumhunting, but for the most part hasn't made any big cases on his own other than the kita case, which is bad. all of his other targets originated from other sources, such as Zealos, G32. I might be mistaken (perhaps he did start a few small cases?), but for the most part, VE is playing very loose and unfocused, which you could argue is a lot like his town play, but he feels a lot more like TL LI VE atm. Shit up the thread, have little focus, try and make a ballooned up case when the going gets tough. Seriously, the case kita is quite bad
ET, VE wasn't fixated on teh lyncher role that was Kita. No-one has explained to me why trying to discredit a soon to be confirmd townie makes sense from a mafia point of view. The flip-flopping is bad, I'll give you that. The point I am trying to make is that this makes sense from a townie point of view just as much as it does from a scum point of view and VE general determination to survive just looks townie to me. I mean the guy is busting his balls and the only way that makes as sense as scum is if he is covering for his team. But he isn't the one driving town on a single case, no that is MZ. It doesn't fit a scum agenda.
WHY? That is what I want, WHY would he do this?
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On June 01 2012 07:21 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2012 07:13 Probulous wrote:
Note how Kita has dissapeared and let others do his bidding. Remember he was the one that started this whole thing with his base case on VE. I don't like this wagon, there is no coutner push, no other option, nothing. It is simply the loudest players bullying through their choice of target. I was the first person to bring up a case against him. How is that letting others do my bidding? Spending time convincing VE that he is scum isn't going to solve anything. I haven't disappeared. If you'd like a long list of individuals who have disappeared, I'd be more than happy to direct you their way.
Yes, my friend you have. Once MZ posted his case you have been happy to nudge it along, letting him bully town into submission. I don't like it. Apparently there is only one lynch in this town, and that gives me the willies. I just want to remind people that it was Kita who started this. Everyone is quoting MZ and his case but it was Kita's post and Kita's filter that miraculously converted MZ.
I would be happy to lynch any of those that have disappeared. Any of these would be acceptable to me
Zealos (he hasn't shaped up and is still complaining about reading the thread, I gave hima cahnce now he can die)
papapanda
Gambit (I don't buy the mason thing, why can't he explain it, he has posted since then)
Hassy (mr diplomat himself)
Manason the talking bowel
phagga or cwave (though they look like getting modkilled)
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##Vote: Zealos
He is the lurker with the most votes besides VE. If there is a wiggles swing, I am happy to do that too. No mayor should be able to just dissapear like he has.
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On June 01 2012 07:26 marvellosity wrote:
Prob, let's get married.
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BTW, Hyaach gets a break because he has been making sense since he came back to thread. That is why he isn't on my shortlist anymore.
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On June 01 2012 07:30 strongandbig wrote:
Ugh. Marv, I'm feeling again like I did before we lynched you in wof. Why am I so bad at this game?
Tell me this - if VE gets roleblocked tonight then won't we just waste all of day 3 on the same crap if we no lynch today?
Ugh, MZ's case is covincing but my gut is like "no bro don't do it!"
Yes, we will have to go through this crap again. That is why you need to make up your mind now. I'm sorry but that is mafia for you. VE will always be suspicious but I am not lynching a townie just because he looks bad.
The question you need to answer is does VE's play make more sense from a scum or town perspective?
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On June 01 2012 07:34 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2012 07:31 Probulous wrote:On June 01 2012 07:26 marvellosity wrote:
Prob, let's get married. Which of us is the lady?
You were the one asking...
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Well that's the hammer right there. It doesn't look like people are listening VE.
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On June 01 2012 07:41 Ange777 wrote:
I should stop clicking "Post" for "Preview" ....
VE was asked why he didn't for push any cases.
I believe this fits very well to the careful playstyle of not pushing for any lynches yourself.
I don't think there is anything careful about VE's playstyle.
I was wrong, it seems it seems 14 was the hammer. VE where you at? Don't go missing now.
Note:
Zealos hasn't voted.
Mattchew is still on SnB?
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With 28 players alive it takes 14 to lynch
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On June 01 2012 07:46 supersoft wrote:
"Supersoft, what is deal? You hardly post anything and then when you do it is a stupid plan that is bound to fail. Wiggles, get your fat ass in here because as mayor you should have a spine. MZ, get your head out of your ass and think for a second about what VE would do if he was town. "
ah shut up scum! really.
That is not a response. I am not scum, so your scumlist has at least one thing wrong.
Do you not agree that your plan is bound to fail? I mean it cannot work unless VE shoots, that watcher sees him and outs himself. That presumes two blues. If we he gets roleblocked we might get a red for it.
It's a dumb plan and you know it.
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Right, well Grey should update his Voting List post because it still says 14. So Ange was the hammer. Thanks Toad.
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On June 01 2012 07:21 Probulous wrote:
WHY? That is what I want, WHY would he do this?
No-one has been able to answer this for me.
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Ok, so it was actually papapanda who laid the smack down on VE. Interesting.
Wiggles needs to shape up because he is playing ghost mayor. With two votes he should be doubly accountable but he doesn't seem to care.
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MOTHERFUCKER did it again!!!
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Come on Ange, give him a day! Gambit is clearly scum now switch!!!!
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Kita, if you think he is scum, so do we. Switch!
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ACtually that makes no sense
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On June 01 2012 08:03 Toadesstern wrote:
Ok VE seems like some idiots forced us to do supersofts plan.
You deliver us a dead mafia and you life. I will not choose the target nor will someone else, you choose it yourself. If I am REALLY wrong about you I am probably also wrong about other assumptions and with this voteswitch of doom I'm not willing to consider you (or Hassy or BH or Gambit) unless something BIG happens.
Make that BIG happen and you life VE.
Why would scum not block VE? It makes no sense to me. If they block him he gets lynched. If there is a watcher they get to out the vig and the watcher for one red. Hell even if he is scum they could choose him to shoot and then he looks like a vig. I don't understand the plan at all.
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ROFL you guys, like seriously, seriously. You got some splainin to do
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On June 01 2012 08:07 kitaman27 wrote:
Dang it VE, you distracted me from pushing my true target, Zealos!
![[image loading]](http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2010/5/4/129174959571570520.jpg)
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On June 01 2012 08:03 supersoft wrote:
WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU KIDDING ME? A NO LYNCH? FUCK I AM LATE!!
Where were you? You posted not long before this.
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On June 01 2012 07:46 supersoft wrote:
"Supersoft, what is deal? You hardly post anything and then when you do it is a stupid plan that is bound to fail. Wiggles, get your fat ass in here because as mayor you should have a spine. MZ, get your head out of your ass and think for a second about what VE would do if he was town. "
ah shut up scum! really.
On June 01 2012 08:03 supersoft wrote:
WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU KIDDING ME? A NO LYNCH? FUCK I AM LATE!!
You were here 14 minutes before the deadline and then three minutes after. Explain.
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Sorry Jaj, I missed that in the chaos. It doesn't matter now but thanks for posting it.
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Don't worry Marv, I won't forget it.
I'm going to take a look into the Zealos case and those that soft-defended him, might strike gold.
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Mattchew is not scum, I just don't see it, so leave him alone. Tonight we focus on Kita and supersoft.
Gambit will die. Either tonight (by vig) or tomorrow at the lynch, we can't forgive two ninja votes. WBG and BH are right in that regard.
I want Wiggles in here because, damn he popped in to place two votes on VE with a shit reason and then vanished. He promised to be a decent mayor and has failed.
Kenpachi, where have you been? You've made more posts after the lynch than before it and you pick Mattchew as scum? How about looking at those pushing this massive misslynch wagon? You can play when you want to, I've seen it. Shape up.
@ET, jaj had the decency to actually try and explain why VE was "scum". Unlike the rest of the voters he tried to show VE's motivation. He won't be getting my vote tomorrow.
We know that scum pushed this wagon. There was enough resistance that any sane townie would doubt themselves. MZ had tunnel fever but he has posted some pretty townie things, plus he claimed a shot. I more worried about Kita who started this and then kept his distance. Supersoft who seems to enjoy posting snide remarks and not responding to posts. He also disappeared for 14 minutes before the lynch and then reappeared too late. He hasn't explained this.
This is the only interaction he has with me
On May 31 2012 09:19 supersoft wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2012 09:12 Probulous wrote:On May 31 2012 09:06 Toadesstern wrote:On May 31 2012 09:03 Probulous wrote:On May 31 2012 08:55 supersoft wrote:On May 31 2012 08:50 Probulous wrote:On May 31 2012 08:45 supersoft wrote:
solve of the mysterious riddle you struggle with: I thought your mason PM would be the first PM that goes out because everyone waited for that in the thread and Greymist obviously should have noticed that.
Don't hype that shit. Thanks, that is all I wanted. Like I said it was bugging me that is all. i have a different explanation. You were blue fishing weren't you? Docs and Jailers should get a PM if the save something, too right? Face meet palm How exactly is asking how you "knew" that hit PMs were late when you weren't hit, role fishing? What he said: You asked him about this to find out wether or not he is one of the medics / jailers who protected someone ELSE. They get a pm as well. So by asking super how he "knew", I was checking whether he is Jailer or Doc and got a late PM? Ok I see that. That was not the reason for asking but I can see his point. of course not. Suddenly this pops up?
On May 31 2012 17:39 supersoft wrote:
22. Mr. Wiggles
4. Zealos
28. VisceraEyes
13. Probulous
scumteam! I really don't care which one of them we lynch today. I prefer Zealos and give VE a chance to shoot Wiggles tonight. Watchers obviously on VE. We don't want the "roleblocker" to deny the party.
I am apparently just as scummy as VE and Zealos? No reason, no attempt to explain himself. No attempt to drive a case or anything, just oh yeah he is scum. Then he writes this
On June 01 2012 07:46 supersoft wrote:
"Supersoft, what is deal? You hardly post anything and then when you do it is a stupid plan that is bound to fail. Wiggles, get your fat ass in here because as mayor you should have a spine. MZ, get your head out of your ass and think for a second about what VE would do if he was town. "
ah shut up scum! really.
Again, no explanation, no case. Nothing. This is undermining 101. When I push him about it
On June 01 2012 07:48 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2012 07:46 supersoft wrote:
"Supersoft, what is deal? You hardly post anything and then when you do it is a stupid plan that is bound to fail. Wiggles, get your fat ass in here because as mayor you should have a spine. MZ, get your head out of your ass and think for a second about what VE would do if he was town. "
ah shut up scum! really. That is not a response. I am not scum, so your scumlist has at least one thing wrong. Do you not agree that your plan is bound to fail? I mean it cannot work unless VE shoots, that watcher sees him and outs himself. That presumes two blues. If we he gets roleblocked we might get a red for it. It's a dumb plan and you know it. I get no response and he completely ignores me. He didn't even try to explain why his plan would work. Why? because it could never work and he knows it. He just wants to hedge. If VE dies, great for scum. If he lives, well hopefully they can out the watcher and get VE lynched the next day.
People need to focus, chasing tails is not going to get us anywhere. I want thoughts on the main people pushing the VE wagon. Take a look at that voting list and give me something.
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On June 01 2012 09:38 EchelonTee wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2012 09:24 Mattchew wrote:
SnB, Gambit, kita, papa should all be killed immediately
I'd FOS wiggles, manason, ange hyaach I think Ange and hyaach are fine. I'm looking at: Kill: G32 - ninja vote, derp posting papa - that weird vote on VE kita - dgafs about game, lol's at VE dying??? Maju - wishy washy posts, bashes Sinensis at one point, extremely low content to post ratio FoS: jaj22, Wiggles, Manason, Kenpachi There are some outliers but those are my focus atm.
ET, you can do better. What is your opinion of Kita and on supersoft, Meapak as well. Be clear and thorough. "Lol's at VE dying" is not enough.
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On June 01 2012 10:33 supersoft wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2012 10:23 Probulous wrote:
Again, no explanation, no case. Nothing. This is undermining 101. When I push him about it
You're a joke.
That is not very nice. Can you please explain why you disappeared from the thread for 14 minutes in which time VE was misslynched and then miraculously appeared 3 minutes too late?
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On June 01 2012 10:23 Probulous wrote:Mattchew is not scum, I just don't see it, so leave him alone. Tonight we focus on Kita and supersoft. Gambit will die. Either tonight (by vig) or tomorrow at the lynch, we can't forgive two ninja votes. WBG and BH are right in that regard. I want Wiggles in here because, damn he popped in to place two votes on VE with a shit reason and then vanished. He promised to be a decent mayor and has failed. Kenpachi, where have you been? You've made more posts after the lynch than before it and you pick Mattchew as scum? How about looking at those pushing this massive misslynch wagon? You can play when you want to, I've seen it. Shape up. @ET, jaj had the decency to actually try and explain why VE was "scum". Unlike the rest of the voters he tried to show VE's motivation. He won't be getting my vote tomorrow. We know that scum pushed this wagon. There was enough resistance that any sane townie would doubt themselves. MZ had tunnel fever but he has posted some pretty townie things, plus he claimed a shot. I more worried about Kita who started this and then kept his distance. Supersoft who seems to enjoy posting snide remarks and not responding to posts. He also disappeared for 14 minutes before the lynch and then reappeared too late. He hasn't explained this. + Show Spoiler [RE:Supersoft. It's big so spoiler] +This is the only interaction he has with me On May 31 2012 09:19 supersoft wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2012 09:12 Probulous wrote:On May 31 2012 09:06 Toadesstern wrote:On May 31 2012 09:03 Probulous wrote:On May 31 2012 08:55 supersoft wrote:On May 31 2012 08:50 Probulous wrote:On May 31 2012 08:45 supersoft wrote:
solve of the mysterious riddle you struggle with: I thought your mason PM would be the first PM that goes out because everyone waited for that in the thread and Greymist obviously should have noticed that.
Don't hype that shit. Thanks, that is all I wanted. Like I said it was bugging me that is all. i have a different explanation. You were blue fishing weren't you? Docs and Jailers should get a PM if the save something, too right? Face meet palm How exactly is asking how you "knew" that hit PMs were late when you weren't hit, role fishing? What he said: You asked him about this to find out wether or not he is one of the medics / jailers who protected someone ELSE. They get a pm as well. So by asking super how he "knew", I was checking whether he is Jailer or Doc and got a late PM? Ok I see that. That was not the reason for asking but I can see his point. of course not. Suddenly this pops up? On May 31 2012 17:39 supersoft wrote:
22. Mr. Wiggles
4. Zealos
28. VisceraEyes
13. Probulous
scumteam! I really don't care which one of them we lynch today. I prefer Zealos and give VE a chance to shoot Wiggles tonight. Watchers obviously on VE. We don't want the "roleblocker" to deny the party.
I am apparently just as scummy as VE and Zealos? No reason, no attempt to explain himself. No attempt to drive a case or anything, just oh yeah he is scum. Then he writes this On June 01 2012 07:46 supersoft wrote:
"Supersoft, what is deal? You hardly post anything and then when you do it is a stupid plan that is bound to fail. Wiggles, get your fat ass in here because as mayor you should have a spine. MZ, get your head out of your ass and think for a second about what VE would do if he was town. "
ah shut up scum! really. Again, no explanation, no case. Nothing. This is undermining 101. When I push him about it On June 01 2012 07:48 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2012 07:46 supersoft wrote:
"Supersoft, what is deal? You hardly post anything and then when you do it is a stupid plan that is bound to fail. Wiggles, get your fat ass in here because as mayor you should have a spine. MZ, get your head out of your ass and think for a second about what VE would do if he was town. "
ah shut up scum! really. That is not a response. I am not scum, so your scumlist has at least one thing wrong. Do you not agree that your plan is bound to fail? I mean it cannot work unless VE shoots, that watcher sees him and outs himself. That presumes two blues. If we he gets roleblocked we might get a red for it. It's a dumb plan and you know it. I get no response and he completely ignores me. He didn't even try to explain why his plan would work. Why? because it could never work and he knows it. He just wants to hedge. If VE dies, great for scum. If he lives, well hopefully they can out the watcher and get VE lynched the next day. People need to focus, chasing tails is not going to get us anywhere. I want thoughts on the main people pushing the VE wagon. Take a look at that voting list and give me something.
I just remembered that supersoft along with Forumite were the first to push Zealos so unless that was an incredibly early bus, he is probably town.
So I guess that leaves Kita.
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On May 31 2012 15:43 Manason wrote:
Sorry VE, but theres a lot of evidence making you look bad.
##Unvote: Kitaman
##Vote: VisceraEyes
However I still do look forward to what you have on Kita, If it's good enough you might have a chance to not get lynched.
Where you at son?
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On June 01 2012 11:40 MajuGarzett wrote:What scum did you personally find? Everyone suspected Zealos.
He was actually one of the first. Between super and Forumite, the day 1 Zealos wagon started. I don't like his play since then but I have to give him credit for that.
Ok having had a stroll through the voting list against VE here are the lurkers who had really bad reasoning for voting for VE. The others look relatively townie to me so I won't include them in my list.
Ange777
His reason was seriously non-commital (Klicky) but it is other posting that makes me suspicious.
On May 31 2012 05:08 Ange777 wrote:
I would prefer voting Gambit over Zealos. A Zealos lynch won't give us much info. If the possibility of him being mason is the only reason against it, I'd still vote for Gambit.
On May 31 2012 05:31 Ange777 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2012 05:09 marvellosity wrote:On May 31 2012 05:08 Ange777 wrote:
I would prefer voting Gambit over Zealos. A Zealos lynch won't give us much info. If the possibility of him being mason is the only reason against it, I'd still vote for Gambit. Do you think Gambit's posts have been scummier? What information do you expect to glean from a Gambit lynch? To be honest, I think both are at a same scummy level. Posting a big list with names and commenting on them seems like a nice way to fake a townvibe. They don't really address any follow up questions (especially Gambit with his two posts only). Wiggles quoted some people soft defending Gambit which could give us some information if we lynch Gambit. For a lack of a better lynch target I am willing to give a Gambit lynch a try.
On May 31 2012 05:35 Ange777 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2012 05:21 marvellosity wrote:
P.S. - I want a good reason why people aren't voting Zealos. Why is Gambit a stronger lynch? Why is Zealos a stronger lynch in your opinion? All soft-defending Zealos.
Next up
Manason
He is the opposite in that his filter looks OK (weird stuff about Kita) but then BOOM random vote for VE
On May 31 2012 15:43 Manason wrote:
Sorry VE, but theres a lot of evidence making you look bad.
##Unvote: Kitaman
##Vote: VisceraEyes
However I still do look forward to what you have on Kita, If it's good enough you might have a chance to not get lynched.
He also never reappears to evaluate the VE case on Kita.
If people want to know why I have left someone specific off, just ask.
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On June 01 2012 11:21 supersoft wrote:
You ask the wrong questions.
Better ask yourself why I found scum and you didn't.
How is the air up there on your high horse? Are you saying that Kita is 100% not scum? Because that is how this reads. It is not beyong the realm of possibility that you bussed Zealos early. Scum had six players so it makes sense to bus the useless ones early if it can get you some credit.
What do you think about my new questions then? Do you think Ange or Manason have a case to answer?
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On June 01 2012 13:12 wherebugsgo wrote:
Read PYP interesting for an example of Supersoft scum. XLIV is a decent example of supersoft town.
Thanks, ive been searching through his profile for a game where he rolls scum. They are so few and far between. It is worth noting
On September 28 2011 12:22 Protactinium wrote:
17. supersoft, Hider House of Tudor
19. Meapak_Ziphh, Rock Star, House of Tudor
Supersofts very first vote of the game?
On October 18 2011 01:37 supersoft wrote:
##Vote Meapak_Ziphh
palmar made a huge post. i agree. reasons and details follow in about 4 hours if i dont change my mind.
@wbg: your case against me is so bad. my exam lasted from 9.00 to 14.00; i left my house at about 8.15 and entered the university at about 8.50
in the meantime from 14.00 to now i was in my repetitorium university course whatever its called in E and only could pm palmar from time to time.
if you want to use a kp on me for being wishy washy with these times i really dont care.
Yes he does bus, and he busses early. Clearly the games are different but it does set a precedent.
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Dammit, I can't edit the post.
Well if people read that and get the wrong idea, than they should read this and get the right idea.
THAT IS NOT A CASE OF SUPER BUSSING, I'M AN IDIOT
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He got nuked early in that game but there is no bussing that I can see. He actually defends Sinani who is his scumbuddy. It is hard to tell because he only goes after people once he is confirmed to be dying. Does anyone know of any other games where he has been scum?
I did giggle at this
On October 21 2011 06:29 supersoft wrote:
lol seriously. i know how to play this game.
if i were scum i'd just disappear until you lynch and kill someone else.
Sounds kind of similar to this
On May 29 2012 15:09 supersoft wrote:
lol why am i so much better at this game than you, stofu
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No-one have any thoughts on Ange or Manason?
What is the point of putting them up if noone can be bothered to respond ><
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##Vote: Kitaman
He's scum. He dies today.
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The case is clear against you. You pushed a VE lynch and then let MZ railroad it through. You wre apparently in the thread all day but hardly contributed. Then you blame VE for distracting you from zealos?
This is regardless of your shady day 1 play. Sorry but this time you got caught.
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This is for Marvel 
Here is my story of Kita's game so far. There is more in filter but this cover the main ideas. It's a little long but please read it.
1.Brings up Lyncher for no real reason.
I have been over this but essentially it seemed like Kita was more concerned about a lyncher than scum. The lyncher would be taking a huge risk to push himself into the mayor role even more so if they do not know their target. The whole lyncher thing was a distraction.
Why do it?
To me this did a few things
- It allowed Kita to add something to the thread and make it look he was contributing without scum hunting. Note he is focused on the lyncher not mafia but he still looks like he is actively participating.
- It created a huge distraction from what should have been the real focus of day 1, making sure that TOWN get into the power roles. By focusing on a minor role, he distracted us from our main goal.
- it creates a climate of fear. He blew up the potential effect of the lyncher well beyond what is reasonable which meant that a lot of people were truly worried about a lyncher getting into the mayor role.
- This gives Kita a source of credibility that is not really warranted.
2.Plants suspicion that Toad is a lyncher
Here is his response to Toad's claim and some follow up quotes
On May 28 2012 04:08 kitaman27 wrote:
Hmm, mason would be a great claim for a lyncher. Doesn't matter if he's telling the truth on day two since he's already won by then. As much as I'd like to see a town role elected, we can't automatically assume toad is town.
Why do it?
- It subtly discredits Toad. Yes he says that Toad can prove his innocence the next day but his initial reaction is to label him as the role he has been obsessing about. It creates doubt which can then be expelled. Note that instead of Toad immediately being town (why would scum claim the easiest role to prove?) he is the lyncher until he proves otherwise.
But Prob, didn't Kita defend Toad? Why yes that is his next action.
3. Kita defends Toad and discredits VE
Now it is important to remember that Kita has done no scum hunting yet but he has managed to plant the seed that Toad is the lyncher which is apparently I really bad role. Now he comes to the rescue and shows how Toad can prove his innocence. When VE doesn't agree, VE is presented as scum. Think about this carefully because it became a big part of the reason VE got lynched.
Kita says Toad is the lyncher (Klicky). The lyncher is a bad role (he made this clear). Why would VE be scum if he had reservations about Toad being elected as pardoner. Yes he would be held responsible but only AFTER he used the role. There is a conflict between thinking Toad is lyncher and he should be elected pardoner. It is not unreasonable to be wary especially when Toad (who is notorious for being a little unhinged) is the person in question. But suddenly this makes VE mafia?
Why? I raised this multiple times but have not received a satisfactory answer. VE's suspicion of someone who WILL prove themselves (ie they haven't yet) makes little sense from a scum point of view. Anyway, Toad is not elected pardoner and the night comes and goes.
4. Kita pushes VE case
Here is the link to the case (Klicky) and here is my response (Klicky). This is his big case against VE which is mostly about Toad and the fact that VE dropped his case against Kita. We now know he is town and can probably assume that he felt that a Kita lynch was not going to happen. Anyway Kita hammers this point again here (Klicky).
Kita then raises the point that VE should have been focused on Zealos if his shot was blocked On May 31 2012 14:51 kitaman27 wrote:If you vig'd him at night and was roleblocked, why am I you're primary lynch target going into day two? Wouldn't it make more sense for your target to be the guy you just tried to kill?
Whilst a valid point I would like to remind people that so far the case is that he discredited Toad (which make no sense from a mafia perspective); that he didn't follow through on the Kita case and that he didn't follow through on the Zealos case. Essentially it boils down to VE being unsure of his reads which is what most townies are. Yes he was all over the place but his actions could be explained from a town point of view and Kita based his entire case on that.
Note that this post is a long way before the deadline but he never adds anything further. VE meanwhile was frantically flailing about trying to prove his innocence. I even prodded Kita about letting other do his dirty work but he just laughed it off. If he was so sure about VE why wasn't he the one pushing the wagon.
No Kita was hoping that people would see MZ as the real force behind the VE lynch. After all he was the one who was shouting at people to lynch VE. MZ had the big walls of text explaining in detail why VE was mafia. Once that happened he could sit back and let the party roll confident that he had a chance for someone else to take the blame. Or better yet for everyone to take the blame and no consequences metered out. Kita started the wagon but once it gained speed he was nowhere to be seen. He was reading the thread because he responded quickly to me but he never added anything new. Even when others (Marvel, ET, WBG, myself) expressed doubts he never responded. He never explained anything, he just let the momentum take VE to the gallows.
TLDR Kita created an atmosphere of fear that distracted town from scumhunting. He used the lyncher to subtly discredit Toad and then used Toad's ability to prove himself, to discredit VE. He posted a case on VE that boiled down to VE being unsure of his reads and let others railroad it home. kitaman27 must swing.
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Well either is fine with me. There isn't much left to say about Gambit whilst there is plenty to say about Kita.
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Marvel, do you really think Manason is getting lynched today over Gambit or Kita?
I agree with you that his behaviour looks like scum. He can be added to the list of people to die but I think the question is whether we lynch Kita today or Gambit. I would prefer Kita because I can see him wiggling out of the lynch tomorrow. If we lynch Gambit and then scum shoot those pushing for a Kita lynch there is a possibility that they can distract town from him.
On the flipside we have a near confirmed scum in Gambit which would lower scum KP tonight. I am convinced Kita is mafia as well but if we can't get him lynched then I am happy to lynch Gambit.
I still think Ange could be scum, his soft defence of Zealos is just to convenient to dismiss. In short here is my preference for the lynch today.
kitaman27 > GambitX32 > Manason / Ange777
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@ET
RE: MZ and Toad
Can you explain what you meant here? (klicky)
On June 01 2012 12:33 EchelonTee wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2012 10:28 Probulous wrote:On June 01 2012 09:38 EchelonTee wrote:On June 01 2012 09:24 Mattchew wrote:
SnB, Gambit, kita, papa should all be killed immediately
I'd FOS wiggles, manason, ange hyaach I think Ange and hyaach are fine. I'm looking at: Kill: G32 - ninja vote, derp posting papa - that weird vote on VE kita - dgafs about game, lol's at VE dying??? Maju - wishy washy posts, bashes Sinensis at one point, extremely low content to post ratio FoS: jaj22, Wiggles, Manason, Kenpachi There are some outliers but those are my focus atm. ET, you can do better. What is your opinion of Kita and on supersoft, Meapak as well. Be clear and thorough. "Lol's at VE dying" is not enough. mz is town unless him and toad did some intense as fck wifom. I have MZ as town as well but not because of Toad.
Toad could easily have masoned a scum. If MZ was scum he would have direct access to Toad in private which is probably worth keeping. I mean if he claimed to have not received the PM, Toad would have been "lying" and then would have been lynched. After the flip MZ would have been shown to be lying so I don't see why scum would do it?
Why would Toad masoning MZ make MZ town?
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Thanks ET, I thought it was something like that, it was just the way you worded it that had me thinking.
I agree with lynching Gambit first as long as Kita swings tomorrow. I think the only going for Gambit is that he might be two minutes too late this time and get himself modkilled. It is kind of sad when the most townie you can do is to die.
Gambit what happened to you? You had so much potential and then you started hanging out with the wrong crowd. Kita offers you a ciggie and next thing you know you're snorting crack from Zealos' butt-cheeks. Peer pressure, it makes you do crazy things.
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I might not be around at lynch time, it depends if I can get into work in time. So just in case.
##Unvote
##Vote GambitX32
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On June 04 2012 06:59 Hassybaby wrote:
I'm suspicious of everyone. But the levels of suspicion vary. Kita? As it stands, a bit less suspicious than the rest. I think the cases on his are pretty stretched, and I like his responses for now.
On June 04 2012 07:00 Hassybaby wrote:
Wait...that came out a bit wrong. He's not my most not-scum read, but he's one of the guys who I think is more likely to be not-scum than others.
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On June 04 2012 08:02 slOosh wrote:
Sorry got sidetracked figuring stuff out. Night post out in 5 minutes I promise!
Liar!
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Stofu and Ange
Seriously, it isn't that hard to vote. Hell even Gambit managed to do it.
Hassy, what are your reasons for being so careful about Kita? You're never going to catch him saying "hey look here, I am an obvious scum". What do you mean by "all the rest"? As in he is the towniest here?
Quite jumping around and give us an answer, Kita = Scum/Town/Third party?
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I think this is appropriate
[image blocked]
Now answer the question.
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Thanks for posting Hassy.
Instead of selecting a couple of random quotes, can you provide your thoughts on my last case against Kita (klicky).
I can respond to your points if you wish but not surprisingly, I disagree.
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On May 31 2012 15:13 MajuGarzett wrote:
##Vote:VisceraEyes
MZ's case contained some valid points and that breadcrumb makes absolutely no sense. A lynch of VE would also be much more informative than the lynch of gambit or zealos. Lynches on Kita and Hyaach are to me less well substantiated as well as unlikely to materialise.
Maju what is this? You hardly mentioned VE before this post and then suddenly he gets your vote? You don't even wholeheartedly agree with MZ's case rather it just has some valid points? You also give youself a nice excuse not to vote for either Zealos or Gambit. As far as a I can tell from your filter you thought VE was scum because MZ said so and you didn't understand why VE breadcrumbed the way he did. Then comes this post
On May 31 2012 15:41 MajuGarzett wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2012 15:33 VisceraEyes wrote:
No one is SUPPOSED to glean that I'm a vigilante from it...crumbs are for determining targets posthumously....not for proving claims Maju. Show nested quote +On May 31 2012 15:34 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On May 31 2012 15:26 VisceraEyes wrote:
What do you want to know about it? MZ knew exactly which post I was talking about. If he's town, and if I died overnight, I'm pretty sure he'd have said something about that very post considering how hot to trot I was about Zealos N1. It's not supposed to make sense to everyone Maju, it's only supposed to be picked up by very observant and by people knowing what they're looking for. That's what a breadcrumb is. No I wouldn't have said anything about zealos because it wasn't a breadcrumb. A breadcrumb is where you spell out who you're hitting or the name of your role using the first letters of each post or name your role in a certain manner or something clever like that (that's a tip kids write it down). That way there's no ambiguity when you say "hey guys I'm an ___ and I breadcrumbed here." What you did was post a little symbol which means nothing, allowing you to tell us how to interpret it however you need. I only knew which post you were gonna reference because with the amount of time I've spent reading your filter I knew there wasn't anything remotely close to a real breadcrumb. I and apparently MZ would disagree. I have to sleep now so perhaps you'll be able to prove your innocence by morning.
Which you never follow up on. In fact you don't even post before VE flips. You had no real reason to vote for VE whilst there was plenty said about Zealos or Gambit but you conveniently found a way to slip your vote in without making a stand. You don't even call VE mafia, rather his flip would provide more information? Well what information did you glean that you wouldn't have gleaned from an actual mafia flip of Zealos or Gambit?
I know some people have looked at Maju but the rest take a look and let me know what you think.
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On June 04 2012 14:39 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2012 14:28 MajuGarzett wrote:On June 04 2012 14:02 EchelonTee wrote:
Maju: opinion on Marv and Manason pls. Lynch or no?
Gotta get those M's in place. Has there been a case made on Marv to look at by any chance? I don't think I saw one. I've felt pretty safe about him though. I'd not vote for his lynch unless I've missed some really obvious scum tell. Manason would be a good lynch I think. Marv's case on him was pretty sensible though I hope that Mana comes back to reply to it fully and also to present the promised case on Kita. I also found it strange that Mana never really commented on other cases on Kita and just went and said he'd construct his own case. It would make sense to do this if he had different reasons for suspecting Kita than others do but from what I can see he has only expressed agreement with the cases. He could be trying to avoid looking like he's blindly agreeing with people by saying he'll make his own case. answer one question: what's the single most important thing marvellosity did this game?
*waves hand in the air*
"ooh ooh, pick me, pick me!!!"
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 You didn't pick me
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Well MY answer would be that he has been right when he didn't have to be.
He was right about Zealos
He was right about supersoft
He was right about SnB
He was right about VE
But I guess that is more than one thing. Oh and he proposed to me. I'm a sucker for a girl on her knees.
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Ok I am about to head home so if I die before I get back to post here are my last wishes
We kill the Kitaman27.
Then we take a good look at Hassybaby, Maju and Manason as the next lynch targets.
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On June 04 2012 19:49 marvellosity wrote:
also stop flirting Prob, I don't wish to play mafia in a state of sexual arousal
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There are enough targets around. Thankfully there are a more players putting in the effort than there are shots available so all will not be lost tomorrow.
If you do die warty one, we will avenge you by killing the Kitaman. If I die, do me the same.
4 VE 
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"If I die before I wake
At least in heaven I can sk8
Cause right now on earth I can't do shit
Without Kit-a-man fuck-in with it"
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Yeah that is my question too.
WBG been shot twice and he isn't protected the third time?
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##Vote: Kitaman27
For VE, Bugs, Jaj, BH, supersoft and for mattchew.
DIE Bastard DIE!
Sorry, Kita I wouldn't normally say that but Toad made me do it.
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On June 05 2012 08:05 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 08:02 Probulous wrote:
Yeah that is my question too.
WBG been shot twice and he isn't protected the third time? Bugs was shot three times? Did I miss something? I only recall the day one claimed shot and today's shot.
Bugs claimed two shots. Night 1 and 2.
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On June 05 2012 08:07 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 08:05 kitaman27 wrote:On June 05 2012 08:02 Probulous wrote:
Yeah that is my question too.
WBG been shot twice and he isn't protected the third time? Bugs was shot three times? Did I miss something? I only recall the day one claimed shot and today's shot. Bugs claimed two shots. Night 1 and 2.
Woops he claimed roleblock not shot, my bad
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On June 05 2012 08:14 Toadesstern wrote:there: Show nested quote +four mafia left, possibly some third party but that's doubtful to me.
These people need to die immediately:
kita
maju
papanda
manason
any of them flip town and we need to kill Austin and Hassy as well, potentially. I lean town on them both for now given that the named four above look much worse. I'm leaning on austin being town as well and would rather put someone else on spot 6 but I'm just quoting bugs
I'm with ET on this one. Seems a little lobsided to have a scum team with only Kita as a leader. The others are all newbs and against a town that has
MZ
WBG
supersoft
Forumite
BH
VE (when he is on form)
Wiggles
Seems a little one-sided. Best to keep eyes open for scum leaders. I agree wholeheartedly with Maju. Manason is a possibility.
WBG's case on Papanda seems to based off of this
On June 04 2012 13:13 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2012 12:57 papapanda wrote:
Kenpachi, reading through your filter again I saw that you fos me. Can you post some things I can try to defend against if you still find me scummy? I'll be out the rest of tonight, but I will respond as soon as I can. based on this post I'm going to assume you are scum and that kenpachi is town. Thanks for making it that easy.
Did he say anything else?
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OK austin, what are your thoughts on Hyaach and papapanda?
It would be most excellent if you could include a quote or two to explain why you think they are the alignment you think they are. That made sense in my head.
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I think papapanda is scummy and was just easing things away from Zealos, he was always easing them towards Hyaach without too much reasoning (To be fair, I thought Hyaach's no-vote thought and eventual vote were bad plays, but not scummy). Hmm that is what I am grappling with.
Papapanda did defend Zealos by pushing Hyaach over him, but he FOS'd Hyaach very early. I had similar suspicions about Hyaach so I can understand where he was coming from. Zealos was, and always was, a lurker, so choosing someone you have a scum read on over a lurker is not terrible. Unfortunately for Papapanda Zealos flipped scum and now he looks like he was trying to avoid voting for him.
However I agree with WBG's point about this
On June 04 2012 13:13 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2012 12:57 papapanda wrote:
Kenpachi, reading through your filter again I saw that you fos me. Can you post some things I can try to defend against if you still find me scummy? I'll be out the rest of tonight, but I will respond as soon as I can. based on this post I'm going to assume you are scum and that kenpachi is town. Thanks for making it that easy. He avoids everyone else, doesn't bother to find the case, doesn't respond to any other case and doesn't bother pushing his own scum reads. Oh and he responds to Kenpachi who is another lurker instead of the others who are actually participating in the thread. It just rings scum, scum, scum.
Anyone else have an idea about the panda man? People seem to have him labelled as mafia so it would be nice to have something fleshy to look at. Does one post a case make?
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On June 05 2012 10:57 Kenpachi wrote:
we finally doing this? good.
ROFL, well we did lynch scum yesterday so no harm done right?
Ken, since you're here. Aside from Kita, I assume you still want to lynch papapanda?
On May 30 2012 10:43 Kenpachi wrote:
##vote papapanda intuition tells me hes mafia
On June 01 2012 10:31 Kenpachi wrote:
...if ihad a gun, id shoot papapanda. i know hes mafia. i just know it
Anything to add to this? We don't all have your godly intuition.
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On June 05 2012 11:15 kitaman27 wrote:
With so few people willing to listen to anything I have to say, it seems unlikely that I will be argue myself out of a lynch today. Even if I am able, it will be a waste of discussion and I'd rather have a full day to go after actual scum targets than defend myself.
I am a Medic. I saved Meapak from a hit on night one. I have been on Toad night two and three. Don't waste time discussing whether or not my claim is real. If there is another medic who claims to have saved Meapak night one, then he can counter-claim me. Otherwise, I am confirmed town and we can end this lynch Kita nonsense. I'll make a post about my suspects later tonight.
Blatant attempt to out our medic. Scum know there is one because a shot was blocked on Night 1 and now since Kita is likely to be lynched he suddenly becomes our medic. No this is way too convenient and unfortunately the only way to tell for sure is to out another blue, or lynch him. Based on his posting I say we lynch him.
Don't be sheep.
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On June 05 2012 11:33 kitaman27 wrote:
We have the ability to stop a mislynch and confirm myself as town, yet you don't want to go through with it because the non-existant other medic may have a really slim chance to make a save on day five or day six (after which the game is probably over)? I don't believe your claim, so yes there is another medic, who would be town. Point being that if the medic claims than we lynch you anyway and he gets shot overnight. Your claim is just that, a claim, and I don't buy it. We have no way of verifying it, so we judge you based on your posts. What is the alternative? We let you live indefinitely? You are not confirmed town, you are the major lynch target who has claimed a very convenient role which I don't think is true.
I'm not sure if you'd be a bold enough scum to oppose this plan or are just tunneling so hard you refuse to consider that I am town. So I'm scum now. Wriggle some more.
Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 14:55 kitaman27 wrote:
With myself and Meapak being town, it doesn't bode well for him for him from a balance perspective, although VE could also serve as the scum leader. I even breadcrumbed the save. I don't consider that Meapak could be fake-claiming the hit because I saved him. Please don't waste time arguing of this nonsense.
Right so the fact that you took MZ claimed hit at face value is a crumb? Does that mean that everyone in this thread who didn't doubt MZ's claim is also breadcrumbing a save? Sorry but this adds nothing to your defence.
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On June 05 2012 11:42 Hyaach wrote:
Im sorry but i cant find your breadcrumb.
As far as I can tell his crumb is that he did not doubt MZ's claim. That makes me a medic too, and you as well. Hell most of the thread are medics
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Ok Kita, I'm not going to argue with you about your claim. I don't buy it and I hope that the rest of the town doesn't either.
How about you give us your scum list? Who would you lynch today?
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On June 05 2012 12:06 kitaman27 wrote:lol @ prob's summary of the most recent mini game <3 Show nested quote +Town got screwed because they never established a set of "confirmed" townies. No-one is ever 100% confirmed but you were all suspecting each other all game long which meant mafia could easily blend in.
I think we have a pretty clear idea who is town in this game. I am sure you have a much better picture but we are certainly in a stronger position than the town in that game.
Relevance?
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Wiggles, be smart about this. Evaluate his play regardless of his claim.
I don't understand how players of Kita's calibre can push a mafia agenda all game and then get away by just claiming. If he is scum it's a win-win situation for him to claim. Either he escapes the noose, or he finds the medic. So the smart thing to do is just ignore the claim. Without it he is clearly mafia, so why does his claim change things?
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To our real medic
DON'T CLAIM!
We will convince the doubters, somehow. Kita is red and he is wriggling out of this lynch like I thought he would try to do. He had no other option and so chose the best possible claim he could. His breadcrumb makes 0 sense.
MZ, I take it you think my cases against him are shit then?
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On June 05 2012 15:00 EchelonTee wrote:
Why should the real medic not claim? This reminds me of MrZentor's doctor claim in SoaF.
Because all that does is out the actual medic. I don't believe Kita's claim for one second. It is way too convenient and doesn't match with his play. He has been scummy scummy scum all game and now that his head is on the chopping block he can wriggle out by claiming the most convenient role yet.
At worst he gets to out our medic, at best he gets off and gets major town credit. It's win, super win if he is scum. If he is town he would have shown something before now. Almost the entire thread has voted for him at some point this game, but suddenly now he is town?
I repeat medic, don't claim. If we still have over 24hrs until lynch so if it looks like he won't be lynched closer to time, we can chat about it then. I'm fine with looking at other scummy people, we need to anyway, but don't claim until you absolutely have to.
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On June 05 2012 15:02 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 14:52 Probulous wrote:To our real medic DON'T CLAIM! We will convince the doubters, somehow. Kita is red and he is wriggling out of this lynch like I thought he would try to do. He had no other option and so chose the best possible claim he could. His breadcrumb makes 0 sense. MZ, I take it you think my cases against him are shit then? Probulous how much have you played here? I'm not trying to be patronizing, I'm just trying to work some stuff out and it would help to know approximately how long you've been playing.
I've played enough to know a bad claim when I see one. Kita is red. VE knew it, WBG knew it, I know it. He is mafia and he needs to swing.
I have written more words about him than the rest of my posts puts together and I still can't convince you guys. I don't know what I am doing wrong but it should be plain to see. Everyone, almost everyobody had him as their number one scum target at some point this game, but a badly crumbed convenient medic claim is suddenly credible?
Put yourself in Kita's shoes, why would you not make this claim if you were scum?
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On June 05 2012 15:25 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: someone please enlighten me how a 1/1 trade is good for scum right now?
If we have scum lined up for a lynch, then a 1:1 is better than a 0:1 from their point of view, right?
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I didn't want to do this but it seems that my hand is being forced. I am Dibs the detective. Here is my post in the thread. I checked Hassybaby last night and he returned Earth, I checked Kitaman the night before and he returned Not Earth.
On May 30 2012 10:03 Probulous wrote:
Hi everybody!
I am counting on people giving me a break to read the thread, so don't expect too much from me immediately. At least I am replacing in fairly early into the game.
It's about time I won a game so I will be putting in the effort here. The roster looks good and from my initial read some of the vets are looking pretty townie so we have no reason not to win.
Note: To help get an idea on people's thoughts, please ask me some specific questions. It is always hard when catching up to get a feel for people because the timing of posts is hard to work out. So fire away and I will do my best.
This is why I have tunnelled him so hard and now people are getting cold feet. I will not let him get away from this lynch, hence my claim.
I purposefully did not breadcrumb my Kita check because he was clearly a target for a possible framer. Instead I tried to push the thread to look elsewhere that night (supersoft and others). In addition I had mentioned earlier in the day that the best way to crumb is just before deadline so people can find it. I thought it stupid to do that for my Kita check in case it outed me. Last night in my last post I labelled three people (along with Hassy as number 1) as mafia target. This was my crumb in the hope that a framer would not know which one to pick.
The reason I didn't want the doc to claim is two fold.
Firstly it should have been clear that Kita is scum and so we don't need to expose the Doc. This no longer appears to be true.
Secondly, by outing myself, we can play a little follow the cop with mafia having to try and find the medic. I know this puts other lead townies at risk but in return we get a clear read in the morning. There is no more roleblocker to worry about. If I soak up two bullets, so be it. Now about sanity, it seems that in a gesture of goodwill, Greymist told me that I checked Toad night 1 and got Earth. With the red check, I know I am a regular DT.
We lynch the Kitaman27.
Finally I am sorry guys but it is 4:50pm and I am about to leave work. I wanted to do this before I left so you can think about it whilst I sleep. I will be on tomorow morning (my time). Think about this carefully and do the right thing.
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Who is Prof Membrane?
I never watched the show so I don't know what you are talking about?
The only possible explanation with you as town would be that you were framed night 2. I doubt that is the case given the rest of your posting. The only people you have pushed as serious lynches are town (VE and Hassy).
From phone.
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On June 05 2012 16:37 kitaman27 wrote:
With the roleblocker dead, its likely that the scum team cannot stop my save. Therefore, if I protect prob, it takes both of their kp to take him out. If we lynch a secondary scum suspect other than myself today, I can prove to the thread that both Prob and an additional townie cannot die while I live. It's possible that the mafia team will double stack prob and then push my lynch the following cycle, but that opens up the risk of a watcher or tracker, which is potentially game ending for them.
OK Kita, I am willing to give this a try. If myself and someone else die overnight, you get lynched tomorrow. If it is just me than the rest of the town can decide what to do with you (I would suggest he swings). This is the right play given the circumstances and much as I dislike giving Kita a break, I am having doubts.
So my other targets, well I've spoken about them previously. Maju, Manason and possibly papapanda but I would prefer one of the first two. I won't be voting for Kenpachi, he has posted, which is more than he normally does. Wiggles is a possibility but for this lynch I would be happier with one of the other three. Everytime I read his filter I come away feeling that he has been reasonable but ineffective. He clearly isn't putting in the effort we want of him but right now, I would be more comfortable with either Maju or Manason. I know it isn't a logical position to take, but my brain hurts and I am feeling pretty shitty for how I have been played. So give me a break. We can lynch him tomorrow if necessary.
Toad, I share your sentiments. The evidence for Kita being scum is huge and the only thing saving him is the possibility that he got framed on night 2. People seem to forget that he looked scummy to most people at some point and has never looked outright townie. Before his claim we were all sure he was scum but now based solely off a claim which scum could make, he is suddenly town.
If we have another medic, I now agree that he should claim. I wanted to lynch Kita with out our medic being revealed but that is not going to happen, so he if he is out there, he needs to claim. It would prove Kita is scum (well depending on who claims but it is highly likely) and so we would go into the night with only three scum left. Yes, the medic would probably die but that would give me the opportunity to check one more person. Given the number of cleared players that is huge. If I get doublestacked, that means more of you "probably townies" survive which is OK.
Sorry guys, I think I fucked up yesterday by claiming. Everything lined up for Kita being scum that I felt I had to do it to ensure his lynch. The possibility of a framer did enter my calculations but that was one source of doubt against a tide of confirmatory information. I got played, or I am being played and it feels real shitty.
Let's lynch maju and get us back on track.
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Your Manason stuff is pretty good, it fits with my read as well. I'll take another look at his filter and see whether I can find a townie explanation for his actions. If not, he is a decent lynch target.
On June 06 2012 08:07 marvellosity wrote:
Lots of questions as with much of his filter in general. This is the kind of post that's a post for the sake of it. Filler is filler, VE had filler too. It was day 1 too so newbs are obviously going to be asking questions and stuff. That doesn't really add anything.
Show nested quote +On June 01 2012 06:12 papapanda wrote:
Grush, if you starsense is telling you VE is not scum, don't vote for him...vote for who you believe to be scum; I would recommend wriggles(long as its not me). Gambit didn't respond yet, if he ninjas today he is dead tomorrow. The only reliable way I can think of to confirm VE is 1)tell him who to shoot 2)someone protect the target 3) target tells us whats up.
Before you post comments on why this is a stupid plan, I want to say that I agree it's a stupid plan and this is not going to happen tonight because so many things can go wrong. #Vote:VE This post is obviously the big one. It just screams scum. Don't vote for VE! Wiggles is more likely scum, vote for him! Except I will vote for VE! The reason he's voting for VE? The plan to confirm his vig shot is flawed. Well where the fuck does that say VE is scum? It just doesn't. As far as single condemning posts go, this one is pretty high up the list.
See this is where I disagree. Whilst the internal logic is inconsistent (ie he thinks VE is scum but telling someone else to vote for Wiggles) but the external logic is alright. He was saying "vote for who you believe to be scum". Grush had just FOS'd Wiggles so that is why he mentioned Wiggles. It actually reads as pretty townie to me because he is saying something stupid without realising it. I know he is being blatantly contradictory but the motivation behind it is townie. The reality is that Wiggles could be scum and so telling Grush to vote for Wiggles, if Wiggles was his number one scum read is not scummy.
Maybe I am misunderstanding something but that is the read I get from that post.
Show nested quote +On June 01 2012 06:43 papapanda wrote:
Both you and I have read MZ's cases, as well as other posts, can we agree that his points are valid?
However as I was reading it, I was, using your term, on the fence for VE's lynch.
What I didn't like was how he responded to the pressure. He claimed vig, one the the toughest role to prove at this stage of the game. Ofcourse it's possible he is vig, and what ticked for me was what he said about if he was the mafia leader, the mafia would try more to save him...(can't find the post, but I'm pretty certain that I read it today). Wifom doesn't work as defenses...(learned that the hard way last game, marvellosity;p).
Anyhow, my point is I find VE scummy and people trying to spread the vote are also worth looking at(hi kenpachi). More bad, just everywhere. At the start, he's just saying "MZ made a good case no? didn't he just?" But still NO explanation from him on what HE finds particularly scummy. Then again we have him talking about vig for most of his post. Between his last post and this one we have him spending most of the time talking about the vig part, which is actually relatively pretty unimportant. He concludes by saying 'I find VE scummy'. Why? How? ... Show nested quote +On June 01 2012 07:12 papapanda wrote:
VE has been contradicting himself through the game. The thing about playing completely different playstyle, day-game and night-game, is just bullocks.
VE's vote-jumping I dislike.
VE's responses are inappropriate as a town.
Marv,
May I ask you what part of the case you find invalid? The day-night game difference. I'm pretty sure that was supersoft that said this, not VE. So we can scratch that as a non-point. VE's vote-jumping is null, and the third point, his responses are 'inappropriate'? What does this even mean? I'm going on a bit now but everything about papapanda's vote on VE and his subsequent explanation reeks of scum.
So we come down to his vote on VE. He was not the only one with terrible reasoning for voting for VE. Townies had terrible reasoning for voting for VE, so if the case rests on this than it doesn't hold much weight. I still think this post is the most damning
On June 05 2012 11:09 Probulous wrote:However I agree with WBG's point about this Show nested quote +On June 04 2012 13:13 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 04 2012 12:57 papapanda wrote:
Kenpachi, reading through your filter again I saw that you fos me. Can you post some things I can try to defend against if you still find me scummy? I'll be out the rest of tonight, but I will respond as soon as I can. based on this post I'm going to assume you are scum and that kenpachi is town. Thanks for making it that easy. He avoids everyone else, doesn't bother to find the case, doesn't respond to any other case and doesn't bother pushing his own scum reads. Oh and he responds to Kenpachi who is another lurker instead of the others who are actually participating in the thread. It just rings scum, scum, scum.
Plus he hammered VE.
For further reading, here is his filter from LIV where he was town. He's more open, more engaging, less afraid to post. There's an honesty and lack of deception in his filter in LIV that does not seem present here.
Reading now.
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Fuck I just deleted a post ><
Rewrite
I agree with Marvel regarding Papapanda's meta. We have not seen anything out of the pandaman that is remotely close to this post (Klicky)
On May 05 2012 13:06 papapanda wrote:Yeah, mafia is going to hit SlOosh real hard, as he is 2/2, calling out both sinani and katina. I believe the lynching of BM was orchestrated by the red. The plan for red might have been to target veterans who are slightly inactive. As we can see, Katina passively pushed for lynching of BM. Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 05:05 Katina wrote:
BM has been not been his usual posting self lately. He likes to lurk when he is Mafia. He made a few brief posts early on then disappeared into La La land. So that is something to keep an eye on. Keeping this is mind, I would like to bring up marvellosity. 1. His first few post was to bring Palmer into attention. No, he didn't vote for him, but just bringing him up and possibly started a bandwagon is good enough. 2. He gives his read on NT, saying he "looks the scummiest" but then votes for BM(yes, I voted BM too, I will explain my change of heart if it isn't clear enough-_-), claiming same reason as layabout. His willingness to switch sides so fast is a little scummy. 3. He defends Katina by basically saying she has odd posting style. By association, this also is a little suspicious and him adding on saying that DoYouHas nailed it actually made it sound even worst for me. I would like to conclude by saying that this was pieced together AFTER I assumed he was red. I would like to ask others to help me analyse marvellosity from the point of view of blue. Basically: FoS on marvellosity Combined with his hammer of VE (for terrible reasons), and his terrible post "replying" to Kenpachi but noone else and avoiding talking about anything relevant; I am happy to put him on my scum list. It now stands at
Maju, Manason and Papapanda
Here are thoughts on Maju and hmmm. It seems my thoughts on Manason are not as developed as I thought, well at least not in the thread. Will write something up now.
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On June 06 2012 09:31 marvellosity wrote:We're not quite seeing eye to eye on the VE vote thing. You get a town vibe from it, but I don't know in what world a townie votes to lynch someone while at the same time trying to persuade someone to move their vote off their favoured lynch target. Not only this but he can't even really explain WHY VE is his favoured lynch target. That is the crux of it. I read that post as just general advice to vote for who you think is scummy. I don't think he realised how contradictory it was. What purpose does the post serve from a mafia point of view? There was no way Wiggles was getting lynched with only Grush pushing it, so why post something that contradictory? The answer is simple, he didn't think he was contradicting himself. Rather he was pushing his read, and telling Grush to push his read. The fact that they were on different people is beside the point.
I agree with the VE point though.
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On May 29 2012 11:17 Manason wrote:
Anyway on with it. Mr. Wiggles and Toad are going to need protection most tonight. Mr. Wiggles moreso. Perhaps we should be focusing on people that aren't posting a lot? Or at least taking a closer look. The scum reads I've seen so far are only for people that have been actively posting and while more posts does help you when figuring out someones alignment, the smaller posts can be more telling.
Why would Wiggles need protection over Toad? Toad had claimed a powerful town role and all Wiggles had was an extra vote. Bad logic, bad! Also I love the way Manason tells people to look at people who don' post a lot and then doesn't bother doing it himself. Note his his first vote.
On May 30 2012 10:26 Manason wrote:
A lot of people are apparently making hasty votes, the day just began. We have roughly 45 hours to decide who is Scum and while you can change your vote why not focus the pressure on someone who is more likely to read the forum.##Vote Kitaman
Which is completely opposite to what he was saying earlier. I also like that this is a pressure vote, when others have been actually pressuring Kita. This is like pissing into a river in the hope it flows faster. This has to be the weakest possible pressure vote I have seen. Kita was an easy target and he gave Kita all manner of excuses not to respond which is what he wanted. That was why he couldn't explain his reasoning behind his vote for Kita, he didn't have any.
On May 30 2012 13:11 Manason wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 12:26 VisceraEyes wrote:On May 30 2012 08:15 VisceraEyes wrote:
There you have it. Nice work Matt.
Forumite had me fooled, though I guess since his target was scum that was going to be EZPZ to do. I was afraid of the assassin/lyncher needing to target scum, that was going to make finding them exceedingly hard since they could just scumhunt like normal. Thank God scum took care of it for us. ^^
Now, who's the lynch today? I'm liking a lynch inside of (Zealos, supersoft, Kitaman) presently. What does everyone else think? He's on the radar, but I don't know if there's enough support for his lynch yet. As you say, no one is really mentioning him and aside from a few people thinking his play is "odd" it doesn't seem like many people find him suspicious. I'm trying to get a GOOD lynch to happen, not MY lynch. MY lynch would be Kita. I'm behind you on Kita. Kita or Zealous, those are the two I'd be happy to see lynched. I think we need to start putting some pressure on these two and see what they have to say in their defence. Note how how mentions Zealos? Nothing in his filter before this suggest suspicion of Zealos, but suddenly he is a lynch target. OK, well you have planted the seed, how are you going to make it grow?
On May 31 2012 12:35 Manason wrote:
...
VisceraEyes: He's for lynching Kita, so I want to work with him for now.
sToFu: I don't think he's scum.
Mr. Wiggles: I voted for him because I trusted his judgment. Nothing I've seen so far has led me to not trust my intial insticts.
strongandbig: at some points I've thought he's scum, other times town. To be honest I have no opinion at the moment.
Hassybaby: I'm not for lynching the lurkers at the moment as we have better targets that are active. Like Kita and Zealous.
Note targets are still Kita and Zealos. He supports VE because VE wants to lynch Kita and then we get
On May 31 2012 15:43 Manason wrote:
Sorry VE, but theres a lot of evidence making you look bad.
##Unvote: Kitaman
##Vote: VisceraEyes
However I still do look forward to what you have on Kita, If it's good enough you might have a chance to not get lynched.
Out of nowhere. Where is this new evidence that makes VE look bad? MZ had posted his case really early on in the day so it couldn't be that. The evidence was the ginormous bandwagon forming which Manason wanted to be part of. Remember he mentioned BOTH kita and Zealos and yet even when there was a counter push for a Zealos lynch he chose to vote for the guy pushing a Kita lynch.
A newbie town in this circumstance would just stick to his earlier pressure and vote for Kita or Zealos. If he was going to bandwagon VE, he would outright say so. He would not give VE an out by saying the Kita case could save him and then not bother to read it and comment. Especially if Kita was his number one scum read all day.
This is why I think he is scum. Marvel's case is good and hopefully this adds something a little different.
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On June 06 2012 09:52 MajuGarzett wrote:Well other than Manason, I'm suspicious of Hassy and papapanda. While I have been accused of a dearth of informational posting, Hassy has also been a culprit in this matter. + Show Spoiler +The first real instance seen of him posting an analysis of anything occurs here: On June 03 2012 05:19 Hassybaby wrote:My main read as it stands it Manason. Take the other posts aside for a second, but Bh and myself saw this at the same time it seems (well we ARE the same person): Show nested quote +On June 01 2012 23:29 Manason wrote:
Ok well there is something I want to make clear right now. I never thought VE was Scum. The reason why I gave him a vote was because I was suspicious by the whole bread crumb deal, added on to the fact that he was going to get lynched and I would rather a VE lynch than a no-lynch. For the people saying that I don't provide any evidence, you guys don't seem to be quoting anything in my filter to prove I'm scum either, although I would give you the benefit of the doubt as it is night, I expect something tomorrow and as a show of good will I will make a complete case against who I think is scum.
I know this isn't going to go in my favor and probably harm my chances even more, but I'm lazy and don't want to go digging through peoples filters and making a case. I like to leave that to the vets. Like I've already said though I'll attempt a case D3. Show nested quote +On June 01 2012 23:48 Manason wrote:On June 01 2012 23:40 marvellosity wrote:On June 01 2012 23:29 Manason wrote:
Ok well there is something I want to make clear right now. I never thought VE was Scum. The reason why I gave him a vote was because I was suspicious by the whole bread crumb deal, added on to the fact that he was going to get lynched and I would rather a VE lynch than a no-lynch. For the people saying that I don't provide any evidence, you guys don't seem to be quoting anything in my filter to prove I'm scum either, although I would give you the benefit of the doubt as it is night, I expect something tomorrow and as a show of good will I will make a complete case against who I think is scum.
I know this isn't going to go in my favor and probably harm my chances even more, but I'm lazy and don't want to go digging through peoples filters and making a case. I like to leave that to the vets. Like I've already said though I'll attempt a case D3. Remind me for a moment how a complete lack of scumhunting and voting for a townie lynch isn't scummy the complete lack of scum hunting is scummy, but voting for VE is completely understandable, while I did think he was town I wasn't without doubts. Like I've said above, better a VE lynch than a no-lynch, no one was going for Kita so I hopped on the bandwagon so that we didn't have a no-lynch. Fuck lynch for information. Fuck whether you can get a switch going to another person so we edefinitely get a lynch. AT NO POINT is it a good idea to vote for a guy to be lynched that you think is not scum, and most definitely not one you think it town. He said he had doubts that VE was town, but that doesn't mean you vote for him...that's like his thinking "well the best way to find out is to kill him!" And imo a no-lynch is so much better than lynching a townie. That's why I took my vote off. I really don't like that thinking. It's the same shit that acro and I suggested in Holy Roman, and that turned out balls. He says that he and BH came upon these posts at the same time but seeing how this was posted after BH died, it would have been fairly easy to say he found it while in fact just taking BH's thoughts and not really having to scum hunt. His next seeming analysis was of Kita On June 04 2012 09:41 Hassybaby wrote:Fs...erased my message 3 times now.... ET you picture was....actually quite accurate. I feel that kita has made some town posts: + Show Spoiler +On May 31 2012 01:51 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2012 01:38 VisceraEyes wrote:
Kita are you town?
I mean, obviously I have doubts...but I was unable to make a cohesive case against you last night when I tried. I think you're playing a pretty manipulative game, but not necessarily scummy after trying to build a case. I'm willing to work with you if you're town. I wanted to work together VE! I really did! But then you shunned logic and focused on your nonsense manipulation arguement to the point where you could no longer be included in our order! Don't blame us for your failings VE. I counted 17 instances in your filter where you found me suspicious, wanted me lynched, or suggested that I should be shot. My policy has not changed. The only change is that I have written a case against you and Meapak no longer suspects me. So tell me, what has changed that made you go from the point of stating that I "claimed scum in the thread" to being town. You say you cannot build a case against me, but that did not stop you from pushing for my death the previous cycle. What gives? Furthermore, why were you unwilling to push a case on me without Meapak's support? If I was truly your number one suspect, why does he have to push the lynch on me, rather than yourself? On June 02 2012 12:34 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2012 12:31 Probulous wrote:
The case is clear against you. You pushed a VE lynch and then let MZ railroad it through. You wre apparently in the thread all day but hardly contributed. Well it's not clear to me. I can't defend myself against something that isn't written. I pushed a VE lynch, which the majority of the players in the game found perfectly reasonable. Why does whether or not Meapak also posted a case have any impact on my alignment? Mine came first and my prefered lynch target was pushed through, what else was there to contribute? Show nested quote +On June 02 2012 12:31 Probulous wrote:
Then you blame VE for distracting you from zealos? Remind me to include my sarcasm tag next time. but has shown some scummy posting too: + Show Spoiler +On June 03 2012 01:29 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2012 20:13 Probulous wrote:
I have been over this but essentially it seemed like Kita was more concerned about a lyncher than scum. The lyncher would be taking a huge risk to push himself into the mayor role even more so if they do not know their target. Well I guess we disagree. I know I would have 100% gone all out to get elected mayor as a lyncher or assassin and I felt my plan increased our chances of getting an anti-town player into office. so I've come to a null. But when I come to a null, I put them as slightly more town as compared to people who I've barely seen. Personal thing. So I put kita as a bit closer to town as, say, austin or kenpachi. Thus me saying I like that. So I'm null right now, possibly leaning more town but that's purely gut feeling. Then again, my gut was why I took my vote off VE... But this read comes out null. From what I see Hassybaby just hasn't contributed all that much.
In the words of the immortal WBG
On June 04 2012 15:34 wherebugsgo wrote:
cool, you're not reading the thread so that affirms my suspicion you're scum.
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On June 05 2012 15:52 Probulous wrote:
I didn't want to do this but it seems that my hand is being forced. I am Dibs the detective. Here is my post in the thread. I checked Hassybaby last night and he returned Earth, I checked Kitaman the night before and he returned Not Earth. ...
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=336250¤tpage=122#2435
Unless you think I am a lying scum, or he was framed last night, you weren't reading the thread. The fact that you didn't even mention that he had a green check against him says you didn't read it.
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On June 06 2012 10:55 wherebugsgo wrote:
why does it say I was modkilled
e: in the op
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On June 06 2012 11:47 Manason wrote:
Three things.
1) Look at my filter under the notion that I'm just a lazy town and everything should fit.
2) I made a mistake in lynching VE, but nothing to be done about that now. The evidence I was referring to was MZ post.
3) I urge you all to still look at Kita, because if you want to turn a skeptical eye towards me fine, but at least lynch scum first.
On June 06 2012 10:09 Probulous wrote:In the words of the immortal WBG Show nested quote +On June 04 2012 15:34 wherebugsgo wrote:
cool, you're not reading the thread so that affirms my suspicion you're scum.
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On June 06 2012 12:00 Manason wrote:
I read all the time, I just never post. Posting requires me to go digging through peoples filters and finding evidence. I'd much rather state my opinion and let others do the convincing.
No, you didn't actually read. Because if you did read, you would know that we have a way of dealing with the Kita claim overnight. You don't mention that at all, so I conclude you didn't read it.
Now you are abstaining from finding scum and would rather other people do the work for you. Sorry mate but in this town, you carry your weight, or the rope carries it for you.
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On June 06 2012 14:47 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
My dear fellows, where on earth is our fair mayor?
He clearly doesn't want to play, so maybe we should help him out?
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Changed vote. Will explain when I get to comp. Should be obvious. Check filter if in doubt.
From phone.
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People with their tin foil hats are stupid. Toad is town, besides the absurdity of having Meapak , Kita and Toad as scum (which is what you would need) Toad would have had to have been framed on Night 1 as well when I checked him. Like I said, I think Grey gave me Toad as my target to secure my sanity given I replaced in. It's just so unlikely that is it is the case than I happy enough to lose to it.
People need to read the thread.
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On June 07 2012 07:49 Hassybaby wrote:
Yay prob is back!
Switching your vote Proob?
You never read the thread do you?
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Austin here is the situation.
Toad claimed mason, masoned MZ who confirmed receiving it and Toad has a green check against him. Besides that he has been open and clear about his reads. MZ claimed a hit which Kita says he stopped. Well if we can get some clarity around Kita, than that helps us with MZ. I understand your scepticism but you need to be realistic. The chances of scum taking that risk AND the night actions from others lining up perfectly is very very remote.
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On June 07 2012 06:41 Hyaach wrote:
I would like a third party to flip through Toad's filter because he claim to answer me three times but i can't find it.
And if its 3 times today, it does not count.
I'm fine with Maju and Manason. Manason moreso tho.
Why does it matter to you? Either you think Toad is scum (in which case give us a reasonable scenario where this is possible) or you are digging for useless information and discrediting Toad for no reason.
If you think Toad is town, than tell me why this information is so important to you?
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Urgh
I am not telling people who I will be checking tonight. I won't be putting a list out or anything like that. So don't ask.
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On June 07 2012 08:04 Toadesstern wrote:
Told you we should have lynched Maju once I saw the people voting mana...
At least it was no lyncher work.
Still going with the plan?
I'm going to make a post before the deadline to sum up reads.
Yes, we need some clarity of Kita and this is the only way it getting it. I will put my final reads together before the day post because I suspect I wont see sunrise.
For those not versed in the plan here are the scenarios that might play out.
Only I die
It is likely that I have been doublestacked. Kita will claim a protection that failed. You guys have to work out what to do with him. This is the situation I think is most likely to happen. It isn't terrible as I have effectively bought you an extra day.
I die and someone else dies
Kill Kita. No if, no buts, he dies.
Kita and someone else dies
I come back with a check and we get clarity on Kita and if he is telling the truth, some clarity of MZ.
Neither Kita nor I die
Mafia are playing some ridiculous game, but that doesn't bother me because we get another night of checks.
Any questions?
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Toad, as much I would like you to mason me, I think it is a bad idea. The chances are high that I die tonight and I suspect some people in this town may object to you masoning three dead people in a row.
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On June 07 2012 06:20 marvellosity wrote:
Where's Probulous? He's still on kita and he helped me push this Manason case, so he should be moving his vote off kita pronto.
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On June 07 2012 08:30 Hyaach wrote:no one pointed it out except you and kitaman and i'm inclined to believe either of you. Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 19:57 Toadesstern wrote:On June 06 2012 17:17 EchelonTee wrote:
About the whole "there needs to be veterans in scum team" or whatever.
I spam that because it's important to be aware of the possibilty, and not to be complacent, but sometimes it doesn't work out that way. In MTG mafia recently, it was Navilus, Katina, HiroPro, and Zealos. They are competent players sure, but WBG and VE were both town, yet fought at lot under a pretense that balance dictated their opposal. Another example is SoaF, where scum team was myself, gonzaw, Bluelightz, and cccalf, vs. VE and BH. You don't NEED a scum vet; it's just a possibility.
Anyways, if we're talking scum vets, I'm leaning Wiggles at this point. Why is he so hilariously AWOL? Are you busy or something?
It's appearing that the greatest consensus is towards killing Manason. There is no medic counter claim, so I do not want to lynch kita right now. Like someone mentioned, if probe+another dies, then we lynch Kita. If probe doesn't die (or kita dies) then his claim is truer. If Probe dies alone, then it's null. Either way, the path of least risk is to not lynch kita, and his actions are decently explainable at times. He's mostly been wishy washy/not scumhunting that hard, but then again we were all wrong about VE, weren't we?
I want another mason in the circle to claim by tomorrow day, at the latest. I have a sneaking fear that MZ is doing a crazy ass mafia plan with toad. If another mason claims to be part of the circle, then I will no longer have to consider that fear as deeply.
There a million possibilities or WIFOM, blue fake claims, etc etc, but the least risky proposition right now is to leave kita, and lynch elsewhere. Since Manason has claimed scum a few times, let's continue lynching down the line.
##Unvote
##Vote: ManasonI haven't read those games but yeah if there's only few vets in the game there won't be mafia vets most times and you make it look like there were few vets in those games. If there's 2 or less vets in general it's usually no mafia vet. About 1/3 or 1/4 of vets usually "should be" mafia. If you don't even have 3 or 4 vets in a game a mafia vet would be "imba" because they shoot the other town vet n1 and instantly win the game that way. Just look at WoF and what happened after Rad and I died... 3 fucking nolynches in a row (kind of, a mislynch inbetween because town was furstrated) because noone knew what to do anymore with Rad and myself being dead. It's a bit tricky because WBGs C9++ games tend to be completly true randomized for example and so are other games but most people see to it that it's even vet-vise. So basicly I completly disagree. We NEED a scumvet. There's no way greymist will make a game that is 6 newbies vs Toadesstern, Supersoft, Mr. Wiggles, Forumite, kitaman27, VisceraEyes, (Kenpachi) and all of them are town. Yes I know foru flipped 3rd party but as far as I understood it was town favored 3rd party and we're still missing the mafia favored 3rd party. Especially with WBG replacing in as town as well. ET pointed it out here but you choose to ignore the bold and divert the attention to balance. We don't lynch on balance design, we hunt scum on scummy post. Then you decided to discredit the case and multiple times stated you are town MASON. Why? to reinforce that image into lazy town's mind? No you are not confirm is what I want to say here. Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 23:39 Toadesstern wrote:Actually screw everything I said about myself, about austin or about kita. We're NOT lynching kita today. I have the most awesome plans of them all to combine all of our problems. Kita claimed medic and mafia already lost their RB. Here's the plan- Lynch someone who's nick is not kita (right now it looks like mana although I'd prefer maju)
- I call out who I will mason at the very beginning of the night, OPENLY and I will choose to most townish looking guy around.
- If kita is a town medic he will medic that dude no matter what.
Either way we're good.: - If the dude survives because they went for 2 other guys I'm not only confirmed but also mod-confirmed townie while kita remains the same as before. At the same time mafia went for 2 people who are looking not so townish which I am totally fine with.
- If the dude gets hit by one shot and kita saved him Kita's good and and I am mod-confirmed although that's not going to happen because no way mafia is that stupid.
- If the dude gets doublestacked Kita remains the same as before, will claim he mediced him no matter if he's town or mafia. I am still confirmed town just not mod-confirmed but we lost 1 townie instead of 2. I am very much liking that scenario as well.
- If we see 2 people dead and one of them is the dude kita was suppossed to protect / I masoned he's a goner.
Can anyone see drawbacks to that plan? I like it very much atm because we're probably going to maka mafia shoot into people they don't want to shoot or make them doublestack when they don't want to. What's this? Everynight action revolves around you? Did you forgot our Cop claimed? Oh right, if you divert potentially everything on you, our cop will not be protected. In the chance that all 3 of you are mafia. Cop will die. you will shoot another town. or double stacked our cop. and maybe out the last member of your mafia.
What is with people and not reading the thread
Read what Toad wrote at the top of THIS page. Seriously Hyaach you are bugging me now. Answer my earlier question
On June 07 2012 07:57 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 06:41 Hyaach wrote:
I would like a third party to flip through Toad's filter because he claim to answer me three times but i can't find it.
And if its 3 times today, it does not count.
I'm fine with Maju and Manason. Manason moreso tho. Why does it matter to you? Either you think Toad is scum (in which case give us a reasonable scenario where this is possible) or you are digging for useless information and discrediting Toad for no reason. If you think Toad is town, than tell me why this information is so important to you?
Do you think Toad is town?
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I'm following Toad's advice when it comes to Hyaach.
MZ, what are you going to do with Kita if I get doublestacked tonight?
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ROFL Toad, follow your own advice man
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On May 25 2012 16:03 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
I feel like an addict. /in
need to kill EchelonTee On June 07 2012 09:09 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Tomorrow we should kill either ET or Wiggles.
Barring probulous nailing a scum I will be working tirelessly towards this goal. Sorry Meapak, this is not a judgment on your case or your play but damn I laughed when you wrote that. It's like destiny
I'll take a look over ET's filter. I had him as pretty much town in my books but I have been wrong. Can you do me a favour and give me your thoughts on austin?
All you mentioned about him is
On May 30 2012 03:39 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 03:39 austinmcc wrote:
You want them vigged because you think Zealos will get lynched tomorrow? Or do you want a third bullet. good post
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On June 07 2012 09:15 Hyaach wrote:
A free lynch is only good if you get scum.
It could be 12 or 11 players tomorrow assuming there's only 2 KP from mafias left. 6-7 to lynch. You just need to convince 3 townies.
And if i may add, apart from Maju, Me, Hassy, Austin, Kenpenchi and [big]Papapanda(i've never look through his filter)[/bog].
The rest have the ability to post a good case.
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ET pushed a Zealos lynch pretty hard on Day 2 when VE was on the chopping block. When I defended Zealos he came back with this post
On May 31 2012 13:49 EchelonTee wrote:No probulous, by god. Show nested quote +On May 28 2012 18:34 Zealos wrote:
Right so, here are my thoughts:
SnB - He's seemed "Fishy" this game so far, and I would be happy to FoS him, however, I don't think there is enough there to say it is a good lynch. I'd like to see him post more thoughts though.
Thoughts on Mayor: If possible, would the best mayor be the one that chooses the day1 lynch based off of a vote from town? Seems like this would be the most pro-town play?
Pardoner: Whoever agree's not to use the power ever seems to be the best bet. Yes, in some select scenario's it might be good to use it, but that seems to just be giving an excuse to any mafia player that could convince people that make him pardoner to use the power.
Now some of my reads: Toad - Seems to be very town provided he can prove it using his "mason" powers. If not, we can lynch him tomorrow.
BE - Leaning on town. His arguments earlier were annoying, but nothing that led me to think he's scum.
Hyaah - ???? Lurker, could well be scum, want to hear what he has to say about the game so far.
If I were to kill someone now: Sinesis - Been said before, but he's tunnelling very hard and doesn't seem willing to add anything to conversation except kill Grush. Who are your other scumreads? Who are you voting for as mayor and why?
I'd also like to note - I'm pretty lurky Day1 atm, I'm pretty busy, however, I'll have finished my last exam come midway through day2, and will become a lot more active then. This is the crux of the case on Zealos. You replaced in, so maybe you don't have a frame, but this one post is why Zealos looks incredible scummy. You don't find scum by making an extended PBPA case; anyone, literally anyone can do that. You only need 1 post to find scum, and this is it. I'm sad to see that the spam continued. Do you know what is happening right now? It's the Avengers: we're all arguing with each other instead of consolidating. Stop the infighting, and kill Loki, aka VE. VE scum, Zealos scum. We lynch Zealos today, thats it. Stop spamming. We're not lynching kita.
Now sure he had VE as scum but he clearly wanted Zealos over VE which I don't get if he is mafia. Much easier to jump on the bigger wagon which just happens to be town. Plus he defends Kita who is town (presumably, grumble grumble ). Surely it would be more beneficial for him (if he is scum) to make the lynch between VE and Kita and let the Zealos case die?
Outside of a major longterm bus, this needs some explaining in your case if you want my vote.
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Alright Kenpachi, do you think MZ is scum?
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Ok guys here are my final thoughts.
Re: Meapak and Kita
For those doubting Kita's claim, you need to realise it would only work if Meapak was in on the game. Otherwise Kita would be taking an even bigger risk for very little gain. Why claim he saved Meapak when
A) There could be another medic
B) Meapak could be a Vet
It is simpler to just assume he made the save. Now apart from the way Meapak has been playing the fact I have a town read on the both of them now. Think about this, if Meapak and Kita planned this whole thing Night 1, they were planning based on the expectation that there is no other medic. The only way this claim would work is if Kita could claim medic, which could be counter claimed. Yes, the other medic might not have save the same person, but two medics in this setup? It is super hella risky and it just makes more sense to assume they are town.
EchelonTee
Meapak, besides your gut you have given no reason to doubt him. Austin apparently suspects him as well. If you are going to push an ET case, than you need to respond to my earlier post (Klicky). I don't see why he would push a Zealos lynch over a Kita one, given my position on Kita. If you can't explain that, don't lynch him.
Scum
I would be concentrating my search for scum on the following
- MajuGarzett (he needs to die)
- Hyaach (he is making no sense and refusing to respond to reasonable posts. I suspect diversionary tactics)
- Papapanda (see my filter)
- Mr. Wiggles (His continued absence is really disturbing. I also don't like his defence of Manason which boils down to he is a newb and his team would have helped him. That could explain Gambit's play but his team certainly didn't help him, or Zealos. To me that reads as a distancing attempt. Trying to look like he is thinking about the game when he couldn't be bothered to contribute.
- Kenpachi (Despite asking him nicely twice, he won't give me his opinion on MZ. Given his insistence Kita is scum, he should think MZ is scum but he won't say it. )
The rest I think are town.
I'll post who I checked right on the hour. I basically flipped a series of coins (RNG) and came up with a check. So there is a 20% chance my target has been framed.
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Sorry guys, boss walked in for a Friday catchup at exactly the wrong time
I checked Wiggles and he returned Green. With Kita flipping medic we have plenty of info. My sincere apologies Kita for shitting on you early game. We can chat postgame.
Meapak looking good. Wiggles good, oh and I received an invite into Toad's circle, so people pushing Toad as scum, just quit it.
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We are MYLO people so if anyone has any real analysis as to why Maju is not scum, we need to hear it.
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Has anyone watched this show? As in, does anyone know the characters?
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On June 08 2012 08:18 Kenpachi wrote:
wat
I know you don't like writing much but can you give us your thoughts on the final scum team. We are at our final lynch so if you aren't going to do it now, we have to assume you will never do it.
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It won't work. Right now I want to hear from Maju. The silence is deafening from most of this thread.
Wiggles, you just got check so please show some initiative. There is still a chance you're the godfather or were framed. Contributing absolutely dick, is not good enough.
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On June 08 2012 09:02 MajuGarzett wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2012 08:57 Probulous wrote:
It won't work. Right now I want to hear from Maju. The silence is deafening from most of this thread.
Wiggles, you just got check so please show some initiative. There is still a chance you're the godfather or were framed. Contributing absolutely dick, is not good enough. What would you like to hear? I've responded to the cases I've seen. If there's one I missed and you want answered just quote it and I'll respond.
Who is scum and why?
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On June 08 2012 09:20 MajuGarzett wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2012 09:14 Probulous wrote:On June 08 2012 09:02 MajuGarzett wrote:On June 08 2012 08:57 Probulous wrote:
It won't work. Right now I want to hear from Maju. The silence is deafening from most of this thread.
Wiggles, you just got check so please show some initiative. There is still a chance you're the godfather or were framed. Contributing absolutely dick, is not good enough. What would you like to hear? I've responded to the cases I've seen. If there's one I missed and you want answered just quote it and I'll respond. Who is scum and why? I've already given my thoughts on that. They're not much different except for that manason flipped town.
OKL, yeah this guy is scum. The only "cases" he has pushed are two weak ones on Hassy and Papapanda. He dropped the Hassy case after I pointed out the green check and he has not pushed his papapanda read at all. He hasn't added to it, he hasn't brought it up, he hasn't even asked people about it. He clearly doesn't want to be associated with it.
Let's get this over with.
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I agree with Toad's reads. I find Hyaach scummy because he has been focusing on stuff that makes zero sense. Austin at least went back and re-evaluated (he looks pretty townie to me). Kenpachi has actively pushed Kita without explaining the MZ link despite being asked multiple times.
I would suggest Maju->Kenpachi->Hyaach->Papapanda
It doesn't really matter because that is my take on the scum team and they all need to be lynched.
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On June 08 2012 08:41 Probulous wrote:I know you don't like writing much but can you give us your thoughts on the final scum team. We are at our final lynch so if you aren't going to do it now, we have to assume you will never do it.
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I guess that was expected
Since you have no idea about Maju, can you read his filter give us your thoughts?
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On June 04 2012 10:38 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2012 15:13 MajuGarzett wrote:
##Vote:VisceraEyes
MZ's case contained some valid points and that breadcrumb makes absolutely no sense. A lynch of VE would also be much more informative than the lynch of gambit or zealos. Lynches on Kita and Hyaach are to me less well substantiated as well as unlikely to materialise. Maju what is this? You hardly mentioned VE before this post and then suddenly he gets your vote? You don't even wholeheartedly agree with MZ's case rather it just has some valid points? You also give youself a nice excuse not to vote for either Zealos or Gambit. As far as a I can tell from your filter you thought VE was scum because MZ said so and you didn't understand why VE breadcrumbed the way he did. Then comes this post Show nested quote +On May 31 2012 15:41 MajuGarzett wrote:On May 31 2012 15:33 VisceraEyes wrote:
No one is SUPPOSED to glean that I'm a vigilante from it...crumbs are for determining targets posthumously....not for proving claims Maju. On May 31 2012 15:34 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On May 31 2012 15:26 VisceraEyes wrote:
What do you want to know about it? MZ knew exactly which post I was talking about. If he's town, and if I died overnight, I'm pretty sure he'd have said something about that very post considering how hot to trot I was about Zealos N1. It's not supposed to make sense to everyone Maju, it's only supposed to be picked up by very observant and by people knowing what they're looking for. That's what a breadcrumb is. No I wouldn't have said anything about zealos because it wasn't a breadcrumb. A breadcrumb is where you spell out who you're hitting or the name of your role using the first letters of each post or name your role in a certain manner or something clever like that (that's a tip kids write it down). That way there's no ambiguity when you say "hey guys I'm an ___ and I breadcrumbed here." What you did was post a little symbol which means nothing, allowing you to tell us how to interpret it however you need. I only knew which post you were gonna reference because with the amount of time I've spent reading your filter I knew there wasn't anything remotely close to a real breadcrumb. I and apparently MZ would disagree. I have to sleep now so perhaps you'll be able to prove your innocence by morning. Which you never follow up on. In fact you don't even post before VE flips. You had no real reason to vote for VE whilst there was plenty said about Zealos or Gambit but you conveniently found a way to slip your vote in without making a stand. You don't even call VE mafia, rather his flip would provide more information? Well what information did you glean that you wouldn't have gleaned from an actual mafia flip of Zealos or Gambit? I know some people have looked at Maju but the rest take a look and let me know what you think.
On June 08 2012 09:23 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2012 09:20 MajuGarzett wrote:On June 08 2012 09:14 Probulous wrote:On June 08 2012 09:02 MajuGarzett wrote:On June 08 2012 08:57 Probulous wrote:
It won't work. Right now I want to hear from Maju. The silence is deafening from most of this thread.
Wiggles, you just got check so please show some initiative. There is still a chance you're the godfather or were framed. Contributing absolutely dick, is not good enough. What would you like to hear? I've responded to the cases I've seen. If there's one I missed and you want answered just quote it and I'll respond. Who is scum and why? I've already given my thoughts on that. They're not much different except for that manason flipped town. OKL, yeah this guy is scum. The only "cases" he has pushed are two weak ones on Hassy and Papapanda. He dropped the Hassy case after I pointed out the green check and he has not pushed his papapanda read at all. He hasn't added to it, he hasn't brought it up, he hasn't even asked people about it. He clearly doesn't want to be associated with it. Let's get this over with.
My thoughts
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On June 08 2012 11:10 Kenpachi wrote:
awesome. Wiggles is definitely godfather. he has been pseudo useful. completely useless and invisible the entire game.
Thats how i see it. papapanda is likely scum and you guys say maju is so i guess ill agree there. the 3rd scum might be Hyaach.
am i scum? no
Well that lines perfecly with my reads so how about we ignore Wiggles for now because I won't be lynching him today. If you have no reason to believe Maju is town than we lynch him right?
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Well I would be happy if the scum team claimed.
Right now I think it is
Maju, Kenpachi, Hyaach and Papapanda. I think most of town that is not those four would probably agree, so if that is the case the mafia can end it early.
Who disagrees with those four?
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And so begins the long night. I doubt I'll see you guys in the morning. Kill papa, ken and hyaach for me. The order doesn't matter.
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On May 10 2012 01:40 GreYMisT wrote:
Godfather
Appears as whatever he wants to all checks
Roleblocker
Blocks your role
Goon
No powers, Can carry out kills
Rolecop
Is told the name of his targets role (not character name)
Framer
Causes a target player to return the opposite result to DT checks
Austin get off the crazy juice, it is impairing your judgement. There is no pardoner, Toad mentioned that to Kita who dropped the whole thing. You should do the same, or at the very least, read the OP.
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Come on town win me my first game
GG mafia
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MARV![[image loading]](http://womenonthefence.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Divorce.jpg)
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On June 17 2012 11:18 GMarshal wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2012 11:14 Probulous wrote:On June 17 2012 09:18 gonzaw wrote:lol well played marv I feel bad for Prob; your anticipated win will have to wait For those unaware, I am now officially, 0 for 6. It will come, and when it does, it will be glorious. So basically, if Probulous is in your scumteam GG. :-P
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On June 04 2012 14:39 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2012 14:28 MajuGarzett wrote:On June 04 2012 14:02 EchelonTee wrote:
Maju: opinion on Marv and Manason pls. Lynch or no?
Gotta get those M's in place. Has there been a case made on Marv to look at by any chance? I don't think I saw one. I've felt pretty safe about him though. I'd not vote for his lynch unless I've missed some really obvious scum tell. Manason would be a good lynch I think. Marv's case on him was pretty sensible though I hope that Mana comes back to reply to it fully and also to present the promised case on Kita. I also found it strange that Mana never really commented on other cases on Kita and just went and said he'd construct his own case. It would make sense to do this if he had different reasons for suspecting Kita than others do but from what I can see he has only expressed agreement with the cases. He could be trying to avoid looking like he's blindly agreeing with people by saying he'll make his own case. answer one question: what's the single most important thing marvellosity did this game?
On June 04 2012 15:51 Probulous wrote:
Well MY answer would be that he has been right when he didn't have to be.
He was right about Zealos
He was right about supersoft
He was right about SnB
He was right about VE
But I guess that is more than one thing. Oh and he proposed to me. I'm a sucker for a girl on her knees.
This makes so much sense now. I've been used like a dirty dirty whore.
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I've also never been a Vanilla Townie. I have a crazy mafia history.
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On June 17 2012 21:54 supersoft wrote:
Probulus. You outed me as blue :-(
G_G
Yeah sorry about that, I really didn't realise until you pointed it out. To me it was simply a case of you knowing too much information.
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On June 19 2012 01:19 marvellosity wrote:
your game was awesome and thanks for hosting (i feel i forgot to say this already!)
P.S. greymist, probably the insane amount of bussing too
General question to the thread. How to deal with this as town?
I mean if scum are bussing the shit out themselves, how do you pick that up? I had Marv as "confirmed" town because he was being logical, consistent and finding scum. He was my strongest town read at end game and he turned out to be mafia. Yes Marv played well, but how do we counteract a scum bussing their entire team?
@Marv, I'm keeping the house and the car and keep your clammy paws away from my sound-system
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On June 19 2012 08:07 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 08:05 Probulous wrote:On June 19 2012 01:19 marvellosity wrote:
your game was awesome and thanks for hosting (i feel i forgot to say this already!)
P.S. greymist, probably the insane amount of bussing too General question to the thread. How to deal with this as town? I mean if scum are bussing the shit out themselves, how do you pick that up? I had Marv as "confirmed" town because he was being logical, consistent and finding scum. He was my strongest town read at end game and he turned out to be mafia. Yes Marv played well, but how do we counteract a scum bussing their entire team? Generally by noticing a player who has found the entire scum team is still alive by endgame.
Hmmm, that is going to be difficult to argue.
Probulous: Take a look at marv over here. He has been reasonable, consistent and sucessfully scum hunting all game, but he is stil alive. He is clearly bussing his team and must die.
Marv: Right, so being good as this game makes me scum?
Probulous: Well scum should have shot you by now.
Marv: Hang on whilst I call the mafia line to explain to them how to play the game. They are clearly doing a terrible job.
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I am so confused
Heading into end game there were plenty of confirmed town to choose from so that alllowed you to shoot someone else and not look suspicious. So in this case, people being confirmed worked against town.
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On June 19 2012 08:26 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 08:24 Probulous wrote:I am so confused Heading into end game there were plenty of confirmed town to choose from so that alllowed you to shoot someone else and not look suspicious. So in this case, people being confirmed worked against town. Correct, in this particular instance having plenty of confirmed town helped me out a shit-ton. Imagine I went through say the last 2 nights surviving while a bunch of random other dudes died, but I somehow lived. At some point the question is "why is he alive?". But as there were so many confirmed townies I avoided that fate
That is my problem and that is why it will be hard to argue. Assuming I am end gamed and so in a position to argue this point, surely you could turn the arguement around and say
"Well, you're alive. You must be scum."
I fail to see how that is a convincing argument. It seems like a free kill for mafia.
Step 1: Bus entire team but play a little scummy
Step 2: Keep one obvious townie alive till end game
Step 3: Call him out for not dying
Step 4: Profit?
Is end game a time when being rational is no longer a reasonable position to take? As in why assume the biggest townie around is actually scum bussing his whole team, over scum chose their shots for reasons we cannot know?
I'm failing hard here ><
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On June 19 2012 08:39 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 08:35 Probulous wrote:
I fail to see how that is a convincing argument. It seems like a free kill for mafia.
Step 1: Bus entire team but play a little scummy
Step 2: Keep one obvious townie alive till end game
Step 3: Call him out for not dying
Step 4: Profit?
Is end game a time when being rational is no longer a reasonable position to take? As in why assume the biggest townie around is actually scum bussing his whole team, over scum chose their shots for reasons we cannot know?
I'm failing hard here >< In most games if you're busing the entire game, its going to be 12v1 at step three and its going to take more than free kill to win. Just remember its always the correct decision to lynch a Radfield who has not been shot by night two.
Well we'll get to test that theory very soon.
Marv, you can play a little scummy by pushing easy miss-lynches. You played me really well this game because you defended VE hard core when I started defending him. To me you were the only one making sense and so naturally you gained points in my book. Then Zealos flipped and you looked even better plus you were right about supersoft. By the time that information was known I had come to same conclusions and so you were my biggest town read.
The manason miss-lynch has a lot to do with his terrible play. If you look at it, if maju had been lynched first, would manason have gotten off scott free? I doubt it. So you were not going to be lynched over that.
I guess the big play you made was defending VE when you replaced in. It allowed you to legitimately say you came with fresh eyes and don't believe the case (like me). When he flipped you gain a lot of cred which allowed you to hide among the "confirmed" townies but not be too confirmed. It was great play, I am just trying to figure out what I should do next time we play together.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://xe9.xanga.com/22fe375a02d37275067569/z219249989.png)
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