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On April 15 2012 08:06 yomi wrote: I'm good to go on dittert atm. ##vote: Dittert
also the afk guy was a lot more likely to be town than mafia since mafia would presumably find the game more exciting? dunno but please come out and post your thoughts on everything so far. it was very heated yesterday and a calm objective mind could really really help right now.
My previous experience had a Mafia subbing in D2 for Newbie V (blubbdavid) he replaced a heavy lurker at that time as well. I think it's possible the situation has repeated itself here, we have pretty much no read on Trumpet other than lurking, his replacement has to step it up a lot to clear him from that suspicion.
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I really have no idea what the hell Dittert is doing. Should we really ditch all D2 discussion and let this vote go through? If he's going to be modkilled/replaced we may as well look at someone else or at least save him from another day. If we mis-lynch him today and Mafia kill another town again N2 we're at 5-3 D3, going to be hard to win at that point.
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On April 15 2012 10:20 imallinson wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2012 08:29 willz22912 wrote: I really have no idea what the hell Dittert is doing. Should we really ditch all D2 discussion and let this vote go through? If he's going to be modkilled/replaced we may as well look at someone else or at least save him from another day. If we mis-lynch him today and Mafia kill another town again N2 we're at 5-3 D3, going to be hard to win at that point. We definitely shouldn't ditch the discussion and if a better candidate comes up we should lynch them. However, I for one am not going to let someone martyr themselves as an easy out.
Can you explain the underlined part here a little better? Are you saying you will or will not let Dittert martyr himself? I have no idea what Dittert's plan is for doing this as town considering if we mis-lynch again and lose another town during the night it's going to be 5-3 D3, which is pretty much mylo for town.
I can't believe I'm saying this, but can we please look at someone else besides Dittert? A lot of you have considered Yomi as the second most suspicious person in your minds (and voted him before the Broodwagon instead of me) but now are willing to go ahead and go after Dittert?
Why make cases against me and Yomi in the first place if you're not going to follow through? And before you call me out Xatalos for pointing out how you tunneled Yomi, I'm not specifically going to ask you to switch back to Yomi and resume your tunneling. I'm more interested in the other players and why the majority vote today is Dittert when we have 31 hours left and no other discussion is occurring about alternate vote targets except for HiroPro's case against Xatalos. Are you all willing to gamble that Dittert is really a newb town all along and this play along with Brood's is going to make it nigh unwinnable for town if we mis-lynch?
@Yomi we haven't had much of a direct interaction before, but you have supported me in the past. Why do you think I'm town so much when most everyone else thought I wasn't?(until I was about to be lynched and posted all the things I did) I can see from your filter that you've said this is also your first mafia game ever as well and that you got angry a lot against Xatalos' tunneling you, similar to how I got angry over Dittert doing the same. Is this the reason why you think I'm town as well, because we're both had similar experiences with tunneling? I really don't know what to think of you at this point, I think you're town, but everyone else seems to think you're highly suspicious, it would be good to dispel some of that by responding to this and what you think of anyone else besides Dittert and Xatalos.
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+ Show Spoiler +On April 15 2012 11:13 HiroPro wrote:The Blue ShiftShow nested quote +On April 12 2012 15:57 Xatalos wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 12 2012 08:58 ArcticFox wrote:
I hope our blues this game are as clever as you were that game, KB.
Discussion is good. Idle chat is not.
As you newer people confirm, please post shortly after with your thoughts on these policies as well. First of all: why discuss about blue roles at all? This is the same mistake I did in A Game of Thrones Mafia - we kept talking about blue roles in the Mafia chat, so subconsciously I mentioned possibilities about the blue roles even in the normal thread. And what do you mean with "idle chat is not good"? So far this "idle chat" has been very useful (certainly much more useful than silence or the trolling/flaming we had in A Game of Thrones Mafia...). Also, you keep mentioning policies, which is something Mafia loves to do - you can appear somewhat useful without actually contributing anything. + Show Spoiler +On April 12 2012 09:21 ArcticFox wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 09:16 Dittert wrote: Not RNG lynch... RNG proposed lynch. I was trying to gauge people's reactions to things. If we RNG and hit scum, surely at least 2 people will jump up to defend that person or risk losing one of their own. If no one really cares about killing that person, they're probably town. Verrrrry WIFOM reasoning. Be careful of that. It sounds logical, but discussing motive rarely leads anywhere. What if scum decides to bus? What if someone jumps up to defend because they think RNG is silly, or they have a blue read on him? This line of reasoning leads nowhere fast, and it's best to ignore it. You're tripping my scum-o-meter pretty hard right now. Got any better suggestions? There he goes again, talking about blue roles. It's too bad it probably ends now after I mention this, but I would have wanted to see how many times he can talk about blue roles / blue reads during the game, since this is the second time already in only 7 hours... Show nested quote +On April 13 2012 02:51 Xatalos wrote: Talking about policy lynches or blue roles isn't Mafia-like only because of my metagame experiences - it's universally not something town SHOULD be doing. In the beginning of the game, Xatalos made a case against ArticFox based on his discussion of blues and policy lynching. But if you look at Xatalos's posting on the first night, almost all of it is concentrated around telling blues to perform certain actions: + Show Spoiler +On April 14 2012 08:39 Xatalos wrote: I'm not sure if all the roles are included in this game (?), but here are some suggestions for night actions:
Vigilante: yomi (this I have explained before) Jailer: Xatalos (I may not be a veteran, but at least I'm active and a threatening presence for Mafia, so I wouldn't be surprised if they chose to shoot me tonight) Detective: don't want to suggest anything for you, since there is a Framer Doctor: hmm... I don't have extreme confidence in anyone being town right now, but maybe Acrofales, vonKlaust, KharadBanar or Willz - none of them really strike me as Mafia at the moment
If nothing else, this list will at least create some WIFOM to make Mafia's night actions harder. Good night! On April 14 2012 15:19 Xatalos wrote: Dittert suggested a Vigi shot on you, which I might find a good idea in other circumstances, but I'm willing to see more from you (your later play on Day 1 was very pro-town, while yomi hasn't played pro-town so far). And a yomi Vigi shot will likely give us more information than shooting you + if yomi gets lynched tomorrow anyway, it's pointless to waste a day on him rather than shooting him now. On April 14 2012 19:24 Xatalos wrote: I wonder why this thread got so silent while I was sleeping. Acrofales, Willz, I'm most interested in hearing your thoughts about the Willz/yomi/BroodKing lynch event and what should be done next (Mafia reads, town reads, anything). Do you agree with Vigi shooting yomi or not? On April 14 2012 21:07 Xatalos wrote: I hope the Jailer jails me though. It's a win-win for me: I can't die, and it's proved I am not a Mafia Goon (Roleblocker and Framer are harder to prove being roleblocked during the night, but if for example the Framer is lynched and it gets revealed later someone was roleblocked tonight, I'm already confirmed then - and even if I were to be Framer, then it is clear that the Detective's investigations can be trusted - I really can't see a reason not to jail me).
I agree with the Vigilante saying out loud his target at the deadline. He only has one shot, so he's just a vanilla townie after that (no point for Mafia to roleblock him anymore) AND then he is confirmed town (unless Mafia would take a HUGE risk and pretend being Vigilante like that). Shooting yomi goes a bit against this, though, because it's easier to pretend being Vigilante now... But I definitely don't think it's worth it to shoot someone else just because of that.
Blue roles work best when town doesn't know what they are going to do or who they are; the risk from mafia hits or roleblocks is too high. But yet Xatalos continued to push attempts to direct blue roles and figure out other people's opinions on their actions. When you combine this with his sudden reversal on whether or not to discuss blue roles, it's scummy as hell. The Distraction FactorWhen you look at Xatalos's posting, it's all over the place. Irrelevant comparisions to a previous mafia game he played, superficial reads on pretty much every person in the game, suggestions on perhaps "lynching for information", constant speculation on well "if this person is mafia/town, then...". These kind of posts appear to be pro-town, when all they really accomplish is crowding out actual analysis and arguments. Xatalos's goal isn't to find out who mafia is, it's to identify several possible candidates to lynch and then focus on the one that he thinks town would be willing to follow through on. That's why in the beginning of the game, Xatalos made numerous posts where he would declare a different primary lynch target and then along with that, provide a list of 3-4 other names who he was willing to lynch. Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 16:17 Xatalos wrote: People I'm fine with lynching right now: ArcticFox, Dittert, yomi, imallinson. I'm pretty sure at least 1-2 of these players are Mafia. If you four want to clear yourselves in my eyes, something major needs to happen. I suggest everyone to read my case on ArcticFox and vote for him. I'd put his chances of being Mafia at 70-80%, which is extremely high for me considering it's this early. I also want to see his response, though, but I don't know what would convince me otherwise at this point (I guess an EVEN stronger Mafia read on someone else, which isn't an easy feat to achieve!). Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 18:18 Xatalos wrote: Actually, KharadBanar's fake pressure voting is the exact same tactic I used in A Game of Thrones as Mafia. Thanks for pointing that out, Acrofales. It definitely casts doubt on him, so I wouldn't be against lynching him. Still, he's not the best lynch target for now. I say ArcticFox and Dittert are our best Mafia reads at the moment. Anyone else want to vote? ##Vote: Xatalos
I think this case against Xatalos has merit, while I am inclined to believe that Xatalos is town for trying to offer a fellow town the solution to save himself (me changing my vote to Yomi and convincing others to do the same) He could also be Mafia and know that we were both town, and just happy with getting a mis-lynch on either of us and then skating the fallout. This part is complete WIFOM though and I don't really want to base a case around that, but it's still something to think about.
Other than the WIFOM part, I agree that Xatalos rambling about blue roles is pretty unhelpful and downright malicious to town. This is a newbie game setup, I can only speculate as to what roles are actually present, but in Newbie V the only blue role present was a Medic, and we had a miller among us as well, that was it, 2 power roles out of 12 people. It is not conceivable to assume that we also only have 1-2 roles as well, instead of the many you seem to be trying to direct, especially during night. Blue roles should act independently with their own judgement and reads, telling them what to do only helps Mafia (as ArcticFox points out in his filter from arguing with Xatalos during the night)
We can't learn much from Brood's filter obviously, but Arctic definitely had some good points to make, and I think he would have been fine with supporting a lynch on Xatalos based on how he acted during the night.
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Okay let's just take a look at the other possible outcomes of a lynch besides Dittert (lynching him wouldn't give town nearly as much information.
1. Lynch willz: Flips red, gives town cred to Acrofales, makes Xatalos look bad, makes Yomi look bad. Flips green makes Yomi look suspicious (until he responds to as why he thinks I'm town), makes Xatalos look better (for trying to save me)
2. Lynch Yomi: Flips red, makes Willz looks bad for defending him, makes Xatalos look good for tunneling him, ArcticFox was originally against Yomi from the beginning according to his filter, something to keep in note as Arctic flipped town. Flips green, makes Willz look suspicious in how he knew Yomi was green, makes Xatalos look bad for tunneling a townie in the end.
3. Lynch Xatalos: Flips red, makes Willz/Yomi look better since he was willing to lynch either of us D1. Gives towncred to HiroPro for bringing up the case against him? ArcticFox also argued against him during the night, might have thought he was Mafia because of the constant blue talk but didn't get to make his case since he was killed off. Flips green, makes Willz/Yomi look bad, makes HiroPro look suspicious for bringing a case against him.
This is in my opinion a decent summary of likely attitudes and results from the three other options besides Dittert. I really want to not leave Dittert as the vote target today unless we really have no alternative, so please comment on this.
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@KB, I disagree that I "warred" with Yomi. If look through my filter, I consistently said that I thought he was also newb town and that he was tunneling Dittert for the same reason Dittert was tunneling me. Xatalos also made a point in that Yomi continually referred to me as town without explaining why exactly that opinion was made, and Yomi was one of the few who didn't believe in the Acrofales case when most other people did (it was a good case, regardless of if I flip mafia/town)
You're also forgetting a pair in there as far as I can see, the interactions between myself and Xatalos.
If we're both mafia, Xatalos has a valid reason for trying to sway the vote from me towards Yomi in order to save his teammate. I know for myself that I am town, but I cannot prove it, so we should use this lynch to see what the real relationship is (if one of is us scum)
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Since a few people are around and active, if we are operating under the assumption that Xatalos and Dittert are both scum, shouldn't we lynch Xatalos first because he was by far more active than Dittert? This would also provide town with more information as to his interactions with other players, far more so than if we lynch Dittert.
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I'm not going to really defend myself from your opinion, considering I really can't in the first place. Yomi and I voting each other to save ourselves doesn't prove alignment unless one of us actually flips, there are reasonable explanations for us doing that as either both town, 1 mafia/1town, or both mafia. Think whatever you want.
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@ Acrofales You're the one who made the case against me stick, not Dittert, and a lot of that was due to me OMGUSing Dittert during the night. If I kept my mouth shut against Dittert and not let him get to me, what would your case consist of?
You say you dislike connection play because it induces WIFOM, but can you really explain the motivations between myself and Dittert without it?
I'm not "soft defending Dittert" I really have no clue as to what the hell his motivations are for playing this game and posting the way he has. I am making the argument that lynching Dittert now wouldn't really give us as much information compared to lynching someone else (see the post I made with my list of outcomes)
Would you not agree that lynching someone who clammed up isn't as helpful as someone who tried to push cases on a lot of people without weight?
Here, just so my opinion is clear: ##Vote: Xatalos
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@ Dittert
Hi again, guess you're not willing to let yourself die just yet after all? (What was the point of the martyrdom post then when we all suck according to you and feelings shouldn't be considered in this game?) Also helpful note, you never unvoted yourself after your martyrdom post so the bot that checks votes will still count it on yourself, so you better revote me and first do a ##Unvote:. Also considering I'm not one of the two likely lynches for this day, that vote sure will come in handy in a tiebreaker situation! Well, at least you're consistent I guess, which is something I can't say for Xatalos. However will you please answer one thing? If you like to point out lies so much, can you correct your statement here: On April 12 2012 23:53 Dittert wrote:@Xatalos I think you have a decent case against ArcticFox, and I would feel comfortable voting for him Day 1 (as things stand right now). That being said, I am actually even more suspicious of willz22912. He's lurking now (or sleeping, or at work) after posting a decent number of posts in the first 2 hours of the game. In those posts, he says a couple of things that catch my attention. First, Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 09:05 willz22912 wrote: Lynch all liars is dumb, don't dwell on that.. How does that not scream scum? It's not just that he doesn't want a Lynch all Liars policy (which would in theory encourage, or at least allow for, lying), but he dismisses it out of hand. "Don't dwell on liars" is exactly the kind of thing scum would say. Second, we have this gem: Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 09:16 willz22912 wrote: If the rest of you are going to let that comment by Dittert slide, I'm going to be unhappy. That comment was 100% useless and even if he is town I'm willing to sacrifice him to weed out the real scum. Town willing to kill other town? Even a bad townie (or a townie with a bad idea) is still a townie. It seems to me that this is a numbers game, and you should want as many people on your team alive as possible. I think willz22912 saw my bad RNG play as an opportunity to get the town to lynch one of their own, hence all the commotion about it. That ArcticFox immediately joined willz makes me even more suspicious of him (him being AF). So basically, you were wrong (we were all wrong) for doubting ArcticFox, since he's the only pro-town player that has flipped. Arctic had many reasons to be suspicious of you as well, but you're going to ignore that because part of his filter mentions myself and Yomi, and that's what you want to use in your case, ignoring the part that incriminates you. So you claim to be consistent in your tunneling of me, fine, I'm assuming you've read my filter so you've seen that I've been consistent in defending you because I think you're town and that town should always try and defend other town. I could be wrong because I don't know for sure, but all your actions can be explained to either being a newb town or a scummy Mafia. Secondly, your basis on your original and continuing suspicion on me is a lie, I have never pushed for your mis-lynch, and for you to claim otherwise would be to put words in my mouth.
My vote on Xatalos is pretty much shooting in the dark for his motivations for pushing Yomi and switching to myself after Acro's case and then defending me. I just like Hiro's case against him and the spam he has done so far hasn't really helped much, I am also using the reasoning that Xatalos flipping would give us more information than Dittert flipping considering Xatalos has been much more spammy and all over the place. This is not good reasoning, but then again a lot of you voted Dittert for martyring himself and now that he's back, you're willing to change all the voting.
I'll be in class for most of today, back at 6pm EST to see what's happened.
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I just got back from class, took a read through the thread. I'm willing to change my vote off Xatalos, I never really had a good reason to lynch him today other than fishing for information from his flip.
I've said before that I saw HiroPro as a little suspicious, he hasn't really contributed nearly as much as other people and seems to fly under the radar, the first time I took note of him was the case he posted against Xatalos D2 that got that bandwagon started.
I'm willing to admit that my read of Dittert as newb town can really be called into question now and that I may have been blinded by my willingness to see what I wanted to see based on the actions so far. I can see the connection between HiroPro and Dittert, and I'm beginning to question how townie a person would be for consistently tunneling one person all game.
However, since we can only lynch one person today, which is it going to be? Dittert or HiroPro seems to be the split. If Hiro flips red it gives a lot of weight to the assumptions that Dittert is red as well. I'm still hesitant to write off Dittert(I don't know, I've held onto this opinion all game of him being newbie town, I'd be really sad to be proven wrong) so I'd prefer to vote Hiro for now and let his flip decide what I think about Dittert. So accordingly: ##Unvote: Xatalos ##Vote: HiroPro
Finally, the main thing I think we need is information to either ferret out remaining scum or help clear suspicious town, this was the main reason I voted Xatalos, I felt like his flip would at least give a lot more information than a Dittert one. However with Acrofales connection reasoning, it could be possible Hiro/Dittert are both scum, but we need to lynch one of them to confirm, and Hiro flipping scum would incriminate Dittert more so than the other way around imo.
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So now we have a super bandwagon on HiroPro again, but at least for better reasons than Brood's herpderp moment. Definitely going to have to analyze voting behavior for this day's vote. Here's hoping we nail scum, we could use the morale boost.
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That explains Hiro's lurking, he didn't want to draw attention to himself as a blue role.
Sigh, ok town is really fucked at this point since we're going to be at 5-3 at the end of this night. However, I'm taking a harder look at Acro, it was his lead here that got us to lynch Hiro and I know for sure I'm town and he made that case against me. It may be OMGUS on my part, but I'm willing to lynch him D3.
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If you're under the impression you will be shot, feel free to post this night.
However, the following players are under suspicion, myself, Xatalos, Yomi, Dittert. Any of these players being shot would not make sense in Mafia's line of thinking, we are too easy cases to push for a mis-lynch.
Acro you better start posting your heart out if you think you're going to be killed off today, as I quote your lovely farewell post to Arctic: On April 15 2012 08:04 Acrofales wrote: ArcticFox: too townie to live, too quiet to get protected. He will be missed. Now people. Lets get scumhunting.
##vote Dittert Now that town has successfully killed their own doctor (/facepalm) we can probably assume that Hiro probably medic'd Acro N1 because he had the most towncred among us. There are two explanations for Arctic being shot instead, Mafia assumed there was a medic and Acro would be on the most obvious target, so they switched to target #2 Arctic, or Acro is Mafia and they knew Arctic was either on the right track or the town with the most towncred.
Also I find this defense by Xatalos of Acrofales troubling. Especially the DT talk, DT cannot be claimed at this point and proven, Mafia can easily counter-claim, all you're doing is making it easier for the Mafia to bluesnipe, very untownlike.
If Acro doesn't get shot tonight, there is no other explanation other than that he is Mafia, he has been too visible for a town to be left alive this long. If Acro gets shot tonight, then Xatalos is probably Mafia for trying to buddy/defend Acro so hard (I will add more on to this as night rolls over, have to head to class soon.)
Don't forget Acrofales and Xatalos were both scum in GoT Mafia (which they won) so they have good experience of what to do as Mafia. They also can play 100% completely opposite of what they did in GoT because of meta arguments. They've both referenced what "Mafia should do" as part of their thinking, and then pointed out how they couldn't possibly be Mafia because they haven't done what "Mafia should do." This is flimsy reasoning, especially for a newbie game, people make mistakes and not optimal play, we've seen that numerous times in this game, trying to defend yourself by saying this is not what Mafia would do (what Xatalos has done) should not be a good defense.
Also notice Xatalos trying to discredit HiroPro's last testament and will, even though he didn't manage to finish his thoughts in time, HiroPro was 100% town, and he may have been on to something. Remember what he said, ignore Xatalos and look at Acro's filter.
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EBWOB: Clarification of this sentence. There are two explanations for Arctic being shot instead, 1. Mafia assumed there was a medic and would be on the most obvious townie/target Acrofales, so they switched to target #2 Arctic. Or 2. Acrofales is Mafia and they knew Arctic was either on the right track or the next in line for townieness.
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Alright, guess I'm on the chopping block again. First off, my read on Acrofales was that he was probably town from his behavior, but I was suspicious/could not dismiss the reasons as to why he stayed alive N1 compared to Arctic. Yes it is speculation on why Mafia choose to shoot, but if he stayed alive again another night would you not have been suspicious? The most towny of all of us continuing to stay alive? Think what you will, but Acro and Xata started defending each other heavily during the night as you can see, I was not willing to let that slide as a possible scum/scum or scum/town relationship (obviously Acro has flipped town, are you not suspicious of why Xata was so willing to go out of his way to defend Acro during a night phase when Acro was no where close to being lynched?) Why defend him so hard during night of all phases unless you think he's going to die and want to build up towncred from associating with him?
Secondly, here is my schedule. I am busy weekdays from 10am EST to 6PM EST with class, I have a 1hour30m commute, I have no smartphone to post on TL. I am sorry for my inactivity, it's pretty much the same reasons as what vonKlaust stated (that I am choosing to focus more on school than this) As many players are also European, this leaves me with no time to respond during key periods to when they are active compared to when I am. It's kind of hard to have a discussion when you guys are staying up late, and I can't because of schoolwork to do.
Thirdly, yes I have been terrible with posting reads of likely scum, it was one of the reasons I signed up to play another newbie game, I can post in a townie manner (as most of you can attest to the beginning of D1 at least) but I fail in identifying scum, which is a crucial part of playing this game. Considering I was also the preferred lynch for D1 as well, I have posted that a lot of you still find me as suspicious and posting bad cases would only continue to make me look bad, and posting cases on people who suspected me would only reek of OMGUS and be hard to substantiate. This is defensive reasoning for why I haven't contributed, but it's the truth unfortunately.
That being said, here are my reads so far for what they are worth.
Funcmode, the easiest opinion to reach, I have none because he hasn't posted enough to get a real feel for, he's still a lurker but the posts he's made have been semi-helpful, so I cannot rate him anything but neutral at this point.
Dittert, I don't believe that a Mafia would be so willing to tunnel a case on one player for the entire game, I think they would try and get a lynch in on a scummy looking town when they can. Yes he voted Yomi that one time, but other than that he's been consistent in targeting me. His case is also still really bad on its own, it never had any traction until a better town player came along and made the case for him, this can mean Dittert is really scum willing to let a town take the lead in a mis-lynch but this is his first game ever and I'm not sure if he would know to do that. Like I said, hard to read for me, I think he's town, others think he's mafia.
Xatalos, in the beginning I thought he was town, but he has been very spammy and willing to go after everyone at one point or another. Tunneled Yomi for a long time, switched the vote to me at my lynch, and then switched back to Yomi after I "convinced him of my towniness". This feels weak to me, I know I'm town but he can't know for sure, if he was willing to lynch me I think he should have stuck to it, and I even agreed with the reasons for lynching me (hence my martyrdom) Then Hiro makes his decent case against Xatalos D2 calling out his spam and his overmention of blues (the thing he initially called Arctic out for) Xatalos was set to be lynched, but Acro came in and posted a better case on Hiro and that caused everyone to change their minds, and led Xatalos to be gleefully happy and post this:
Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 03:23 imallinson wrote: I'm not so sure Hiro is scum. I think either Dittert or Xatalos are scum and whether Hiro is scum or not depends a lot on Dittert's alignment. I think what is interesting is that Hiro went from thinking Xatalos is reasonably town to picking him out as scum at the beginning of day 2. I haven't quite figured out his motivations for this yet and there is definitely a town explanation for this as well as a scum one.
Dittert is Scum If Dittert is scum it makes a lot of sense that Hiro is scum as well. Hiro makes a case for someone who is weak when his team mate is looking to get lynched. I think this is probably the case both ways (If Hiro ends up getting lynched and flips scum Dittert is probably scum too).
Dittert is Town However, if Dittert is town then it makes no sense for Hiro to be scum, he completely shuns the current consensus that Dittert is scum and goes for someone else to get lynched when it makes no difference to him. Therefore if Dittert is town I'm fairly sure Hiro is town. Consequently this makes me think Xatalos is scum.
So while your Hiro case has merit Acrofales, I still think Xatalos is the scummier of him and Dittert leaving Hiro as town. This gets me very interested in the possibility of HiroPro&Dittert&imallinson... I'll have to look how HiroPro and Dittert have talked about imallinson next! I'm actually getting pretty excited already. It's not too bad even if I die now, since the whole Mafia team has been potentially revealed. If I die and flip town, please focus your attention on these three players immediately. Don't forget to use DT/Vigi/Jailer. And heal Acrofales, I think. After we end up lynching HiroPro, he exhibits sadness but then has the bright idea to call for a DT to reveal themselves during the night when they 1) can't be verified, 2) can be counter-claimed so easily by Mafia, 3) if they do reveal themselves especially during night they can be killed off by Mafia. Did anyone really think this was a good idea? I would have expected better for Xatalos considering this is not his first mafia game and that he played scum previously and that is exactly what they want. I will make a followup post defending myself from his case as well. This is something to take note of for his behavior, please look through his filter and really think about whose scummier between us. If you want to claim OMGUS by me fine, I'm not going to defend that it's not, but look at the actions he's done compared to mine, and especially when he was the top vote candidate for D2 for the brief time he was. Was he really that helpful?
imallinson Summary of events, sheeped Xatalos's case on Arctic, I called him out on it. Contributed to thread by posting a case on the lurker trumpetarn (pretty easy to do as anybody, but as Mafia builds towncred) Other than his filter has generally been very short, he has been lurking a lot, decided not to bandwagon the case Acro made against me (even though it was a good case and worth lynching me over, decides to waste his vote continuing to vote trumpetarn) Broodking makes his fuckup, imallinson conveniently comes in late when the vote's already decided and sheeps that vote. D2 rolls over, posts that he's suspicious of Dittert now, sheeps Acro's vote on Dittert beginning of D2. Changes mind to Xatalos based on scummy behavior, then changes mind to Hiro following Acro's lead. Switches back to Xatalos during the night when discussing with Acro. Seems to me like he really is following in someone else's shadows, and I don't think he's very committed to lynching Xatalos considering he's been willing to switch to Dittert or someone else when convenient. Something to think about in my mind.
Yomi, I've stated it before, repeating it again, his aggressive behavior may be unpleasant, but that doesn't mean he's Mafia. I think he's tunneled several people which is a newbie town trait, and I don't think a scum would get into a rambling argument against Xatalos for that long. I could be wrong about this, but I'm focusing on trying to find one guaranteed scum, not look for connections.
vonKlaust, probably town, has been helpful with most of the posts, and comes off as unsure of himself, something that Mafia wouldn't probably exhibit cause it makes them look suspicious, at least to my mind.
KB, I'm still waiting for his game to step up, considering everyone gave him high praise for his play in Newbie VI. I took a look at his filter both this game and Newbie VI and while I consider him town, he needs to really step it up since we're at a mylo situation for town. This was why I was hesitant to trust in him even though its based on meta, but I'm really hoping he'll take over as town leader since Acro is dead.
In summary since this is a long post. My top scum reads are 1. Xatalos, 2/3 not sure about but I'm willing to vote Dittert/imallinson at this spot if it's the only alternative. ##Vote: Xatalos
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On April 18 2012 04:04 Xatalos wrote:Why To Lynch WillzShow nested quote +On April 12 2012 09:16 willz22912 wrote: If the rest of you are going to let that comment by Dittert slide, I'm going to be unhappy. That comment was 100% useless and even if he is town I'm willing to sacrifice him to weed out the real scum. First Mafia slip: why would you want to kill a townie just for posting a stupid suggestion? You even say specifically that his town flip would help "weeding out the real scum"... How exactly? It's not like a bandwagon on Dittert for his stupid play and a town flip would reveal anything useful for us, especially if there would be just a bandwagon on him and nothing else during Day 1. It would be a dream come true for Mafia, not for town. This was the beginning of D1, I was calling out Dittert for his bad suggestion and continuing to defend it, compare Dittert to Brood in terms of helpfulness overall. Dittert makes a rant against us after we lynch Brood for what everyone agrees was a 100% dumb move as town and a total scumslip, then makes an emo post martyring himself when he was the #1 target D2. If you think he's town, is this really helping? Both of them are "bad town" and have been very unhelpful, Brood especially pretty much ruined D1 because at least we would have ascertained either myself or Yomi's alignment with a successful lynch, which would have been more beneficial overall! Mis-lynches happen, it's part of Mafia, but that was seriously the worst thing he could ever have done to screw town over. I'm not sad over Brood's death since he wasn't helpful, but I can be angry at him and Dittert for being useless. I've been consistently defending Dittert and he's been consistently attacking me, when this game is over I really would appreciate an apology coming from him if we're both town, it's the least he can do.Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 04:07 willz22912 wrote: It's better to have me martyr myself for town than to try and save me at this point. In hindsight, this looks like potentially suiciding and denying additional information about Mafia connections for town. It's always better to say everything you have and prove your innocence: at the very least others will have something to discuss about next when you flip town. If you suicide as town, you just deny information and give a free kill for Mafia. If you suicide as Mafia, you protect your teammates and confuse town. [i] Are you conveniently ignoring the fact that when you told me to post what I could to be helpful that I did so? Are you really going to say my martyring myself was unhelpful for town considering the vote was 6+ at that point and I WAS AGREEING WITH YOUR REASONING TO LYNCH ME? You're acting like I did nothing but say, welp I guess I'm dead, /voteself, and left the thread. This is what Dittert did, not me, and I think this part of your case is terrible. Show nested quote +On April 16 2012 02:52 willz22912 wrote: Would you not agree that lynching someone who clammed up isn't as helpful as someone who tried to push cases on a lot of people without weight?
Here, just so my opinion is clear: ##Vote: Xatalos So it's better to lynch an active poster than a lurker, regardless of what you think of our Mafia probabilities? Lurkers benefit Mafia, active posters benefit town. Just because you're an active poster doesn't give you any more credibility than a lurker. What does lynching a lurker do when they haven't commented or associated themselves with anyone else? This is the main point I was against voting Dittert in favor of you, you have commented on many people, for example, your tunneling on Yomi can give towncred to Yomi if you flip scum, alternatively it can make Yomi look more suspicious if you flip town. You act like town knows exactly who to lynch at every point, I wish it was that easy, lynching is the only method for town to reliably obtain information outside of blue roles, we can't do the same for who Mafia shoots because it's entirely WIFOM speculation as to Mafia's motives which we do not have as town. Lynching you over a lurker would give more information, don't lie and say it wouldn't.Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 23:18 willz22912 wrote: If Acro doesn't get shot tonight, there is no other explanation other than that he is Mafia, he has been too visible for a town to be left alive this long. If Acro gets shot tonight, then Xatalos is probably Mafia for trying to buddy/defend Acro so hard (I will add more on to this as night rolls over, have to head to class soon.)
Malicious WIFOM making Acrofales look "bad" once KharadBanar or someone else with high credibility gets killed instead. Possibly a Mafia strategy to plant suspicion on Acrofales beforehand with this really weak WIFOM. This was WIFOM as to why Acro did not die N1, and don't tell me I was the only one who thought this. You have to speculate at some point as why to why certain people are being targeted and some people aren't. I already stated this to be WIFOM so calling it WIFOM isn't really a shocker. Considering Acrofales was shot, how does my WIFOM help him now since he's dead? We obviously know he's town now, can I ask you why you were defending him so hard during the night when he was only in danger from Mafia, not from town trying to lynch him?I'm in a hurry so this'll have to do, I'll be back later!
Responded to this case by Xatalos, my responses are in italics.
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EBWOB, fucked up my italics at one part of the response, you can clearly see the i in [] starting it but I forgot to end it, I hope you can notice that.
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EBWOB2: Reposting it to make it easier + added "to town" to the being unhelpful part.
Are you conveniently ignoring the fact that when you told me to post what I could to be helpful to town that I did so? Are you really going to say my martyring myself was unhelpful for town considering the vote was 6+ at that point and I WAS AGREEING WITH YOUR REASONING TO LYNCH ME? You're acting like I did nothing but say, "welp I guess I'm dead, /voteself" and left the thread. This is what Dittert did, not me, and I think this part of your case is terrible.
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