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United Kingdom3482 Posts
On April 13 2012 06:09 willz22912 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2012 04:45 imallinson wrote:On April 13 2012 04:33 Acrofales wrote:On April 13 2012 04:19 imallinson wrote:On April 13 2012 04:18 Acrofales wrote:
Because I am currently trying to figure out Xatalos: imallison, mind telling me why you think he's so townie? Mainly because he was the first person to go out of his way to voice his suspicions of someone. That strikes me as very town like play. That was spectacularly underwhelming. Posting a case on someone is not a tell of anything, plenty of reason for scum to post cases (and I should know, I spent most of GoT mafia blowing up townie's mistakes into cases). He probably has the largest filter of anybody and your reason for listing him as your strongest town read is that he was the first to post a case. I won't ask for more, but I hope not everybody is as gullible as that. He is my strongest town read because I have no sort of town read on anyone else. It certainly isn't super strong and if someone had a good argument against him I could be swayed. I assumed that scum wouldn't want to put themselves out there like Xalatos had. I guess that scum could hide behind that which I hadn't thought of. Thank you for pointing that out. What's your opinion on my claims against you? Bandwagoning on any vote without good cause is still bandwagoning, even if you're the first person. If I have a different opinion of Xatalos's case vs ArcticFox and I disagree with it, but you still agree with him (meaning you don't agree with my interpretation), why? I also find it highly unlikely that you have no other town reads on anyone else, you just didn't think of anyone else because Xatalos's case against ArcticFox was the only discussion point. Be more assertive and decisive in your opinions. If one good argument sways you then you are the type of town Mafia love to keep around because you sheep other people's thoughts. Don't keep to this line of thinking.
Well your claims against me are just that I hadn't posted anything of my own, which I've done now so I'm not really sure there is much to say unless there is something else about me you think is suspicious. Your criticism of me was perfectly valid but I have rectified your concern.
As for other town reads I think dittert is more newb town than scum but it would be nice to hear from him. Acrofales I think is town but I'm not sure because he seems to jump his suspicion around a lot and I can't figure out why yet. You I'm leaning towards being town you seem to be fairly helpful and getting useful info from other people. Everyone else is neutral or a bit scummy in my mind.
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On April 13 2012 04:59 willz22912 wrote:
Greymist would it be possible to have a separate thread to track/count votes?
I don't think this is necessary, you can 'ctrl+f' for "##Vote" pretty easily. Myself or GreYMisT will give you a votecount a few times per day cycle and besides that if it's been a long time and you need one just ask and we'll get you an accurate one.
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At the moment we should be focusing on scum candidates. I would love to hear willz' actual opinions. It's funny that vonKlaust should mention that. I have both willz and vonKlaust pegged as excellent bullshit detectors. That's great for keeping the thread on track, but actual opinions from both of you would be nice. vonKlaust posted his. Your turn, willz.
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On April 13 2012 06:21 imallinson wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2012 06:09 willz22912 wrote:On April 13 2012 04:45 imallinson wrote:On April 13 2012 04:33 Acrofales wrote:On April 13 2012 04:19 imallinson wrote:On April 13 2012 04:18 Acrofales wrote:
Because I am currently trying to figure out Xatalos: imallison, mind telling me why you think he's so townie? Mainly because he was the first person to go out of his way to voice his suspicions of someone. That strikes me as very town like play. That was spectacularly underwhelming. Posting a case on someone is not a tell of anything, plenty of reason for scum to post cases (and I should know, I spent most of GoT mafia blowing up townie's mistakes into cases). He probably has the largest filter of anybody and your reason for listing him as your strongest town read is that he was the first to post a case. I won't ask for more, but I hope not everybody is as gullible as that. He is my strongest town read because I have no sort of town read on anyone else. It certainly isn't super strong and if someone had a good argument against him I could be swayed. I assumed that scum wouldn't want to put themselves out there like Xalatos had. I guess that scum could hide behind that which I hadn't thought of. Thank you for pointing that out. What's your opinion on my claims against you? Bandwagoning on any vote without good cause is still bandwagoning, even if you're the first person. If I have a different opinion of Xatalos's case vs ArcticFox and I disagree with it, but you still agree with him (meaning you don't agree with my interpretation), why? I also find it highly unlikely that you have no other town reads on anyone else, you just didn't think of anyone else because Xatalos's case against ArcticFox was the only discussion point. Be more assertive and decisive in your opinions. If one good argument sways you then you are the type of town Mafia love to keep around because you sheep other people's thoughts. Don't keep to this line of thinking. Well your claims against me are just that I hadn't posted anything of my own, which I've done now so I'm not really sure there is much to say unless there is something else about me you think is suspicious. Your criticism of me was perfectly valid but I have rectified your concern. As for other town reads I think dittert is more newb town than scum but it would be nice to hear from him. Acrofales I think is town but I'm not sure because he seems to jump his suspicion around a lot and I can't figure out why yet. You I'm leaning towards being town you seem to be fairly helpful and getting useful info from other people. Everyone else is neutral or a bit scummy in my mind.
Your case on trumpetarm makes sense, are you still voting ArcticFox or are you changing your vote to trumpet based on what you've posted? I personally am giving a lot of people the benefit of being a newb and first game, but I may have clouded my own judgement in thinking this. You say that trumpetarm is more suspicious than dittert, when essentially they are making the same mistake, (lurking, not posting anything constructive)
I'm giving people at least another 12 hours for the EU folks to respond to the accusations I've made. I suggest you give a little bit more time for the accused to respond as well. We have the same 4-5 people posting and it's getting us nowhere at this point.
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@wiliz The problem I have with Dittert is his inactivity, after making an accusation. My vote is by no means confirmed by his inactivity, but its almost halfway through the day and he hasn't put in much effort at all. Hiro has offered nothing substantial as well, bandwagoning on the suspicions of Xatalos. Dittert's claim seems more shaky to me \so I'm going to keep my vote on him.
My last scum read is on Yomi, he has clearly built a stronger case against me, but refuses to vote against me. Is he afraid because he would have been at the helm of such an attack? I don't think much of his OMGUS reactions, I've had experience with townies doing that, but I will try and look more into those. I want to see what he does as we get closer to the vote.
We have to becareful about releasing scumlists though, as they give the mafia can use them to guide their KP.
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@wiliz The problem I have with Dittert is his inactivity after making an accusation. My vote is by no means confirmed by his inactivity, but its almost halfway through the day and he hasn't put in much effort at all. Hiro has offered nothing substantial as well, bandwagoning on the suspicions of Xatalos. Dittert's claim seems more shaky to me so I'm going to keep my vote on him.
My last scum read is on Yomi, he has clearly built a stronger case against me, but refuses to vote against me. Is he afraid because he would be blamed when I turn up townie? I think this is a good theory, but I want to see what he does in the coming hours. I don't think much of his OMGUS reactions, I've had experience with townies doing that, but I will try and look more into those.
We have to be careful about releasing scumlists though, as they give the mafia can use them to guide their KP.
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EBWOB : "I personally am giving a lot of people the benefit of the doubt for being a newb or having their first game." should be the correct sentence.
Acrofales, what do you want me to say currently before they respond? I see 5 lurkers and I could pick any of them for various reasons, I'm willing to be patient and catch them slipping. If you want to question me, ask me my opinion on one of your own reads. Why should I be the only one contributing, my opinion is no more important than any of yours because this is a team-game. I can't win the game single-handedly, in fact I'm pretty sure I'm going to be the first person killed by Mafia, so I have to make the cases I make ironclad, and make sure of my reads before I die.
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Permssion to edit? My browser crashed so it got posted twice.
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
On April 13 2012 06:29 willz22912 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2012 06:21 imallinson wrote:On April 13 2012 06:09 willz22912 wrote:On April 13 2012 04:45 imallinson wrote:On April 13 2012 04:33 Acrofales wrote:On April 13 2012 04:19 imallinson wrote:On April 13 2012 04:18 Acrofales wrote:
Because I am currently trying to figure out Xatalos: imallison, mind telling me why you think he's so townie? Mainly because he was the first person to go out of his way to voice his suspicions of someone. That strikes me as very town like play. That was spectacularly underwhelming. Posting a case on someone is not a tell of anything, plenty of reason for scum to post cases (and I should know, I spent most of GoT mafia blowing up townie's mistakes into cases). He probably has the largest filter of anybody and your reason for listing him as your strongest town read is that he was the first to post a case. I won't ask for more, but I hope not everybody is as gullible as that. He is my strongest town read because I have no sort of town read on anyone else. It certainly isn't super strong and if someone had a good argument against him I could be swayed. I assumed that scum wouldn't want to put themselves out there like Xalatos had. I guess that scum could hide behind that which I hadn't thought of. Thank you for pointing that out. What's your opinion on my claims against you? Bandwagoning on any vote without good cause is still bandwagoning, even if you're the first person. If I have a different opinion of Xatalos's case vs ArcticFox and I disagree with it, but you still agree with him (meaning you don't agree with my interpretation), why? I also find it highly unlikely that you have no other town reads on anyone else, you just didn't think of anyone else because Xatalos's case against ArcticFox was the only discussion point. Be more assertive and decisive in your opinions. If one good argument sways you then you are the type of town Mafia love to keep around because you sheep other people's thoughts. Don't keep to this line of thinking. Well your claims against me are just that I hadn't posted anything of my own, which I've done now so I'm not really sure there is much to say unless there is something else about me you think is suspicious. Your criticism of me was perfectly valid but I have rectified your concern. As for other town reads I think dittert is more newb town than scum but it would be nice to hear from him. Acrofales I think is town but I'm not sure because he seems to jump his suspicion around a lot and I can't figure out why yet. You I'm leaning towards being town you seem to be fairly helpful and getting useful info from other people. Everyone else is neutral or a bit scummy in my mind. Your case on trumpetarm makes sense, are you still voting ArcticFox or are you changing your vote to trumpet based on what you've posted? I personally am giving a lot of people the benefit of being a newb and first game, but I may have clouded my own judgement in thinking this. You say that trumpetarm is more suspicious than dittert, when essentially they are making the same mistake, (lurking, not posting anything constructive) I'm giving people at least another 12 hours for the EU folks to respond to the accusations I've made. I suggest you give a little bit more time for the accused to respond as well. We have the same 4-5 people posting and it's getting us nowhere at this point.
I think in the interest of actually getting a response seeing as none has been given yet I will change my vote to trumpet. I think what Arctic and other people have posted about Xatalos's case has convinced me he might not be scum. It's not purely down lurkyness because Dittert has been lurking but apart from the dumb RNG suggestion hasn't posted anything that sounds that scummy.
##Unvote: ArcticFox
##Vote: trumpetarm
There are other people I think might be a bit scummy but haven't posted enough to get a good read on.
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On April 13 2012 06:39 BroodKingEXE wrote:
We have to be careful about releasing scumlists though, as they give the mafia can use them to guide their KP.
What do you mean by this? The idea of sharing scumlists is to build a consensus among town to reach a majority to successfully lynch someone. If multiple people think someone is scummy, there is a reason, and should be shared, even if it's misguided or incorrect because it builds/causes discussion.
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On April 13 2012 06:44 willz22912 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2012 06:39 BroodKingEXE wrote:
We have to be careful about releasing scumlists though, as they give the mafia can use them to guide their KP. What do you mean by this? The idea of sharing scumlists is to build a consensus among town to reach a majority to successfully lynch someone. If multiple people think someone is scummy, there is a reason, and should be shared, even if it's misguided or incorrect because it builds/causes discussion.
Mafia look at the scum lists and figure out who has the best sense of who they are. They then kill them
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Dittert's posting is not that of mafia. He made a silly suggestion and then backed off it, much more indicative of inexperienced town.
On April 13 2012 05:01 Acrofales wrote:
Please tell me who you think is scummy and why?
Read better.
On April 13 2012 06:39 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hiro has offered nothing substantial as well, bandwagoning on the suspicions of Xatalos.
Please explain to me how I am bandwagoning onto Xatalos when I am the only person that is voting for him and the first person to outright say that he is scum (Kharad gave a very wishy-washy response where he said that Xatalos is slightly suspicious).
On April 13 2012 06:47 BroodKingEXE wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2012 06:44 willz22912 wrote:On April 13 2012 06:39 BroodKingEXE wrote:
We have to be careful about releasing scumlists though, as they give the mafia can use them to guide their KP. What do you mean by this? The idea of sharing scumlists is to build a consensus among town to reach a majority to successfully lynch someone. If multiple people think someone is scummy, there is a reason, and should be shared, even if it's misguided or incorrect because it builds/causes discussion. Mafia look at the scum lists and figure out who has the best sense of who they are. They then kill them
This is beyond dumb. Why would mafia kill people who appear scummy. That does not hurt town in any way. If anything it helps town, by narrowing down possible people to lynch.
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Oops, when I called out Willz, I missed his almost immediate response to vonKlaust.
On April 13 2012 06:19 willz22912 wrote:
I'm waiting on responses from at least half the thread, I'm not going to make a case based on this little posting, that's not going to convince anyone. I will have a case written up and posted at least 4-5 hours before deadline tomorrow(~1-2pm est), so that's enough time for discussion. Specifically, I'm calling out Yomi, BroodkingExe, HiroPro, imallinson, trumpetarm to post something, at least either their top town or scum read and their own opinions. I'm tired of seeing people pick on the easiest targets with little to no explanation.
I think all our scum lists are quite similar at the moment. I have dittert as a scumspect and am not as suspicious of trumpetarm: I find dittert's few posts more suspect than trumpetarm's, who seems to at least be trying to contribute.
BroodkingExe has posted very actively in the first few hours of the game and seriously shat up the thread, but I didn't really get a read. His latest post is a mix. On the one hand, he posts some analysis (mostly rehashed, but still, it's an opinion). On the other hand, he writes in bold letters that discussion of scumspects is bad for town. This is so utterly and blatantly wrong that it wasn't even worth responding to. At first I thought it was a scummy thing to say, but rethinking it, I kinda think it's probably just a noobie error who is alarmed at suspicions running wild. His vote for dittert is, imho neither here nor there. Dittert is in my top 3 scum and Broodking tries to offer some new reasons, which are pretty weak imho, but I don't think it's a mindless hop on the Dittert bandwagon.
Summary: I have my eye on him, but am not in favour of lynching him yet.
I'm also still on the fence about Imallison. I will have to take a good look at his filter (I did earlier and came up null, but he's posted more since).
That makes my list: Dittert, Yomi and HiroPro.
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Ah wait I misunderstood you. You mean to say that mafia kill people that have right reads? Sure, but if the reads dont get shared they're useless.
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EWBOP: I was referring to BroodKingEXE's post.
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Hey, after being away for a little while the thread is actually shaping up to be a little bit more productive, with people posting their reads and being generally quite sane around here. One thing I'm missing though is a bit more interaction with Yomi, because he got a case posted on him which I can definitely agree with, but has since not been around in the thread. If he's lurking out there, perhaps there's something we can do about that.
##Vote: Yomi
I would do a similar thing for HiroPro too, but I have only one vote and Yomi takes precedence to me because nobody got around to a case on Hiro yet.
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EBWOP: HiroPro actually posted while I wrote my contribution. Reading now.
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On April 13 2012 06:49 HiroPro wrote:Dittert's posting is not that of mafia. He made a silly suggestion and then backed off it, much more indicative of inexperienced town. Show nested quote +On April 13 2012 05:01 Acrofales wrote:
Please tell me who you think is scummy and why? Read better.
All I got from your contributions to this game is a really incoherent summary of Xatalos' scummy behaviour and a vote. If that is your only suspect I am unimpressed. What do you think of BroodkingExe?
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On April 13 2012 06:49 Acrofales wrote:
I think all our scum lists are quite similar at the moment. I have dittert as a scumspect and am not as suspicious of trumpetarm: I find dittert's few posts more suspect than trumpetarm's, who seems to at least be trying to contribute.
Why do you say that trumpetarm's post contribute more than dittert's? All he's said was that the pressure votes were useless and that Xatalos may be town or sneaky mafia.
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HiroPro, you really need to post more. Right now you're just a huge question mark to me, which is worse than if I had at least a neutral read on you. Your case against me also seems pretty half-hearted at best... I can't say if you're serious or just making a weak fake pressure. In any case, your play so far has been anti-town and unproductive. I just need to see something more from you before coming to conclusions.
I went through every player's filters and rearranged my preferences for lynching. At the moment I'm willing to unvote ArcticFox and see more from him before a lynch. There are a couple of reasons for this:
A) His later posts have actually been useful and contributive.
B) I must admit my original case on him wasn't as strong as I first thought it was... It lacked sufficient cold facts (except the policy lynch talk) and was more based on intuition than logic. Still, I don't regret voting for him, as this case pushed the discussion forward and revealed a lot of opinions. I'm not saying it was just a calculated pressure, but partly so.
C) Some of the most pro-town players, in my opinion, have also defended him (such as Acrofales and Willz).
So, who to vote for if not ArcticFox? I agree with BroodKing's case on vonKlaust and imallinson's case on trumpetarn. Either of them would be good lynches. Acrofales made a good case against Dittert and yomi, and I'd be willing to lynch either of them, but neither of them has posted much yet (same as HiroPro).
Right now I'm leaning the most towards vonKlaust. Here are the parts of his posts I'm most suspicious about:
On April 12 2012 21:36 vonKlaust wrote:
Ok, I must disappointedly admit that I feel pretty lost. So far I think most cases have felt a bit rushed, but I guess that could be because I'm simply not used to this kind of speculative reasoning. I do however think that Xatalos case on ArticFox seems to carry some truth. If I would have to vote right now, I would probably go with this.
Both the blue-talk and the policy lynching-talk seems a bit odd. I guess you could agrue that ArticFox could be blue himself, but it doesn't strike me as very natural behaviour to talk so much about blues if you are one yourself since you would desperately want to stay hidden. I'm not quite as confident about this as Xatalos seems to be, but to me this seems to be the best analysis so far.
This post is just... Very indecisive and unproductive. He tries to ride on his own newbieness/confusion without providing anything other than vague or pointless remarks. What is that part about ArcticFox's possible blue role even supposed to mean? Could it be that same Mafia slip I thought I already saw in ArcticFox's posts?
On April 12 2012 23:24 vonKlaust wrote:
Well, I AM confused. And I can agree that I come across as somebody who doesn't take solid stances. I don't know alot about this game, and I try to be humble to that fact. I say what I think, but you're likely not gonna see me write something like "I am perfectly comfident this is how we should play this game" or "I know for a fact that X is scum". That's just not how my brain works.
Again he is trying to hide behind his confusion/newbieness. I find it suspicious how he keeps repeating how confused he is. Even if you are truly confused, why spend your energy explaining to others that you are a useless and confused townie?
On April 13 2012 05:43 vonKlaust wrote:
I still have a feeling that Dittert is just a confused townie. I think the whole RNG-thing have been blown out of proportions and I think his weak case against Willz might have been rushed since he felt pressured to contribute to the scumhunt.
I'm unsure about Xatalos. While he have done a couple of potential scumslips he feels a tad to vocal for a mafia member. And those slips can just have been the result of bad reasoning, even though I doubt it.
HiroPro also comes across as a bit suspiscious. The way he has just popped in a couple of times. Both of the times short after someone called him out as lurking. It makes me feel he is actively lurking.
I would like HiroPro to write more, but for now I think I'll go with Xatalos as my prime suspect.
That comment about Dittert being a "confused townie" adds fuel to the fire that you attempting to make "being confused" a state where everything is forgiven - there should never be free passes for being confused/newb, not for you, not for Dittert. I also have to wonder how I am now your "prime suspect", although earlier you jumped eagerly on my case against ArcticFox. You also mentioned ONLY me as your suspect, for some reason. I want to hear some reasonable excuse for this. Am I truly the biggest/only Mafia read you have so far for making a slightly faulty case to get things going?
##Unvote
##Vote: vonKlaust
I also definitely want HiroPro, Dittert, yomi and trumpetarn to post more. If you are town, there is nothing to lose by being active, and everything to lose by being inactive.
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EPT
