Other people: do you see what I'm seeing with my wbg analysis? Or am I going nuts. Discuss
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
Other people: do you see what I'm seeing with my wbg analysis? Or am I going nuts. Discuss | ||
EchelonTee
United States5239 Posts
On April 13 2012 00:25 Toadesstern wrote: Awesome, so you agree to lynch gonzaw and VE? Because everything you said besides wifom is true for those two as well. Not to mention that calling something wifom is the thing that is scummy, not someone trying to figure out what happened. I am trying to figure out what happened the night. That's a townie treat. VE is calling it wifom. That's a mafia treat because wifom is the worst vocabulary there is in mafia games because nowadays you can call everything and their dog wifom without even a second of a thought and people will say "ok" because EVERYTHING is wifom to some degree in this game. This is a game of chance to some degree and it's about judging what makes most sense (Occams Razor anyone?). A townie would have NO PROBLEM AT ALL simply pointing out another more reasonable explanation. A mafia will simply call wifom to discredit someone without actually having to explain shit. So no, that's not a mafia treat at all. Oh and actually pointing fingers all over the place isn't a mafiatreat either. You think a mafia is happy being on 5 different lists of people who fos'ed townies all game long? Hell no, a mafia is trying to be diplomatic, not talking about his reads at all always trying to dodge having to give reads. That's were gonzaw is absolutely right, just that I am not doing that. Why exactly do you find gonzaw scummy again? I re-read your case: it can literally be summed up as "he put a bad case on me, must be scum". If we lynched based off bad cases, I would want Risen dead on a stake. Your next chunk is a lot of rationalizing about WIFOM, which is ironic when you claim that WIFOM is overused and shouldn't be used. Trying to figure out night actions if fine, but the problem is that you used the night actions to imply that you are town (I told people to protect Jackal so I'm town). You say "A mafia will simply call wifom to discredit someone without actually having to explain shit.", but it has already been explained why your WIFOM speculation was erroenous and suspicious. Pointing fingers can be a mafia trait if it disrupts activities. Not all mafia hide in little corners in lurk; I always accuse people as scum. | ||
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On April 13 2012 00:41 marvellosity wrote: Ok, that's lovely toad. Other people: do you see what I'm seeing with my wbg analysis? Or am I going nuts. Discuss Yeah the way you show it, it looks like WBG is really inconsistent, to the same flavour I showed on day 1. Reference: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=325046¤tpage=65#1282 He mentions VE being hypocritcal but you point out a lot that he himself is hypocritical. I agree with all your points made in the WBG post actually, they make a lot of sense. I was getting the feeling while in the thread last night that WBG genuinely thought VE was scum, but it coulda just been him shitting up the thread to try and ensure VE's death. Cause hey, lynching a potential DT is a lot better than using a night kill on it. | ||
Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On April 13 2012 00:48 EchelonTee wrote: I'm still at school but these last few pages have been fruitful as fck. Why exactly do you find gonzaw scummy again? I re-read your case: it can literally be summed up as "he put a bad case on me, must be scum". If we lynched based off bad cases, I would want Risen dead on a stake. Your next chunk is a lot of rationalizing about WIFOM, which is ironic when you claim that WIFOM is overused and shouldn't be used. Trying to figure out night actions if fine, but the problem is that you used the night actions to imply that you are town (I told people to protect Jackal so I'm town). You say "A mafia will simply call wifom to discredit someone without actually having to explain shit.", but it has already been explained why your WIFOM speculation was erroenous and suspicious. Pointing fingers can be a mafia trait if it disrupts activities. Not all mafia hide in little corners in lurk; I always accuse people as scum. I never said to not use "wifom". By all means, try to think about what makes sense and what does not and try and find the most reasonable explantion. Instavoting me after the nightkills makes no sense because assuming "Toad told people to protect Jackal and is a mafia who used a single bullet on Jackal to kill him" is not the most reasonable explantion. Since both VE and gonzaw instavoted me and I had a mafia read on both of them I am assuming they are not even trying to figure out what's happening because clearly they didn't even look at the nightkills. I said telling someone "that's just wifom" is a bad treat. | ||
marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
On April 13 2012 00:53 Mementoss wrote: Yeah the way you show it, it looks like WBG is really inconsistent, to the same flavour I showed on day 1. Reference: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=325046¤tpage=65#1282 He mentions VE being hypocritcal but you point out a lot that he himself is hypocritical. I agree with all your points made in the WBG post actually, they make a lot of sense. I was getting the feeling while in the thread last night that WBG genuinely thought VE was scum, but it coulda just been him shitting up the thread to try and ensure VE's death. Cause hey, lynching a potential DT is a lot better than using a night kill on it. That was also the impression I got at the time. imo it shows the importance of not letting yourself simply 'feel' something as it happens, but to take a step back and look at the whole picture. | ||
EchelonTee
United States5239 Posts
On April 13 2012 00:55 Toadesstern wrote: I never said to not use "wifom". By all means, try to think about what makes sense and what does not and try and find the most reasonable explantion. Instavoting me after the nightkills makes no sense because assuming "Toad told people to protect Jackal and is a mafia who used a single bullet on Jackal to kill him" is not the most reasonable explantion. Since both VE and gonzaw instavoted me and I had a mafia read on both of them I am assuming they are not even trying to figure out what's happening because clearly they didn't even look at the nightkills. I said telling someone "that's just wifom" is a bad treat. uh you ignored 2/3 of my post. the first 1/3 was a direct question. Hmm so does it make sense for a veteran to call for medic protection? No? Maybe you're lying then. Gonzaw posted like 3 cases on you the last night. After D2 started, gonzaw spent a few posts considering the night kills. It's obvious that he looked at the night kills. You don't have any legitimate reason to call gonzaw mafia.... OMGUS only extends so far. | ||
prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
VisceraEyes is town because he posted like he was a DT and that is very hard for scum to fake (these are his posts at the start of day2). Scum don't purposely try to do that, because they just end up in situations like the one VisceraEyes is in right now. If you want to lynch people for being "dumb" (which I don't really think VisceraEyes has been even though I probably would have used my role in a different way) then you can lynch from here on until the game ends in a perfect scum victory. If you want to lynch people because you're afraid they might be scum then you're also doing it wrong. In the very unlikely case that he's actually scum, then we have tracker/watcher to make sure that he actually visits someone tonight so hopefully you will calm down about this tomorrow when we determine that he actually also has the ability to visit someone. The case on Artanis[Xp] is actually quite clear. He hasn't done anything townie yet. Townies have ALWAYS done something townie, not because they're all brilliant but because they all actually try and when you try then you always end up doing something that it townie, even if you have to look scummy on your way there. Artanis[Xp] hasn't done this and he is quite clearly scum. Now he's just showing up to defend himself in a very scum like way. So pile on to him now. You guys have no excuse because I have now repeatedly told you that Artanis[Xp] is very likely scum and that VisceraEyes is very likely town. If you decide to screw this up then shame on you. | ||
marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
On April 13 2012 01:07 prplhz wrote: Why the fuck are you guys not listening? VisceraEyes is town because he posted like he was a DT and that is very hard for scum to fake (these are his posts at the start of day2). Scum don't purposely try to do that, because they just end up in situations like the one VisceraEyes is in right now. If you want to lynch people for being "dumb" (which I don't really think VisceraEyes has been even though I probably would have used my role in a different way) then you can lynch from here on until the game ends in a perfect scum victory. If you want to lynch people because you're afraid they might be scum then you're also doing it wrong. In the very unlikely case that he's actually scum, then we have tracker/watcher to make sure that he actually visits someone tonight so hopefully you will calm down about this tomorrow when we determine that he actually also has the ability to visit someone. The case on Artanis[Xp] is actually quite clear. He hasn't done anything townie yet. Townies have ALWAYS done something townie, not because they're all brilliant but because they all actually try and when you try then you always end up doing something that it townie, even if you have to look scummy on your way there. Artanis[Xp] hasn't done this and he is quite clearly scum. Now he's just showing up to defend himself in a very scum like way. So pile on to him now. You guys have no excuse because I have now repeatedly told you that Artanis[Xp] is very likely scum and that VisceraEyes is very likely town. If you decide to screw this up then shame on you. We're not listening when YOU have totally ignored my wbg case? Nice one | ||
prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
Why are you not voting him? We could lynch scum today. | ||
ghost_403
United States1825 Posts
##vote: Artanis[Xp] | ||
EchelonTee
United States5239 Posts
On April 13 2012 01:09 prplhz wrote: ghost_403, gonzaw, EchelonTee, I have seen all of you call Artanis[Xp] scummy. Why are you not voting him? We could lynch scum today. You don't think Toad is scummy? It seems foolhardy to not resolve this issue now, unless you think toad is town too. I think Nisani is one of the few who has stated he thinks both are town. I do think Artanis is scummy, but I was wrong about michealthe. If we mislynch here, then we end up with VE and Toad feud still going on at MYLO. That is not a situation I want to be in. | ||
Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On April 13 2012 01:02 EchelonTee wrote: uh you ignored 2/3 of my post. the first 1/3 was a direct question. Hmm so does it make sense for a veteran to call for medic protection? No? Maybe you're lying then. Gonzaw posted like 3 cases on you the last night. After D2 started, gonzaw spent a few posts considering the night kills. It's obvious that he looked at the night kills. You don't have any legitimate reason to call gonzaw mafia.... OMGUS only extends so far. Sure it does make sense. Why shouldn't it? I am a vet. I am trying to achieve high thread presence (although the threadbombing was not on purpose). What do you think mafia would have thought about me if I had not asked for protection that night? Also you make it sound like a protected life on a vet is something incredible bad, but as mentioned I wasn't even aiming for that oO So yeah. I consider it to make way more sense than claiming a red check that has a 1/3 chance to be right and even with his incredible stupid explanation that he told us that's still only a 1/2 chance to be right. You think a DT would claim because of a coinflip after a night with 5 kills and gonzaw already calculatiing how long it takes until lylo like that? Possibly risking the whole game based on a coinflip? Sry I ignored 2/3 of your posts. I thought I don't have to talk about your gonzaw accusation (pointing figers is a mafia treat if it's disruptive) and therefore thought I don't have to talk about why I think gonzaw is mafia, because you seemed to agree with me although you apparently don't know that oO For why I call gonzaw mafia: Pretty much for what you accused him just now. Being disruptive on purpose with his fingerpointing asking EVERYONE in the thread about his case, being all over the place to hear someone about his own cases from every single player in the game. And yeah, pretty much everyone said the case he did is a null, yet he proceeds to push me for that like a maniac. I am pretty sure a townie would reconsider for a bried second if he would get that much "no" about his case and observe me while watching what happens when I am not forced to bomb the thread because of him. | ||
ghost_403
United States1825 Posts
On April 12 2012 21:38 ghost_403 wrote: This isn't derailing the thread, this is moving the thread back towards sanity. This is a town. We are supposed to hunt scum, not argue over a VE lynch versus a Toads lynch. Right now, we're hunting scum. If you don't think Artanis is a good lynch, tell me why. | ||
Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On April 13 2012 01:07 prplhz wrote: Why the fuck are you guys not listening? VisceraEyes is town because he posted like he was a DT and that is very hard for scum to fake (these are his posts at the start of day2). Scum don't purposely try to do that, because they just end up in situations like the one VisceraEyes is in right now. If you want to lynch people for being "dumb" (which I don't really think VisceraEyes has been even though I probably would have used my role in a different way) then you can lynch from here on until the game ends in a perfect scum victory. If you want to lynch people because you're afraid they might be scum then you're also doing it wrong. In the very unlikely case that he's actually scum, then we have tracker/watcher to make sure that he actually visits someone tonight so hopefully you will calm down about this tomorrow when we determine that he actually also has the ability to visit someone. The case on Artanis[Xp] is actually quite clear. He hasn't done anything townie yet. Townies have ALWAYS done something townie, not because they're all brilliant but because they all actually try and when you try then you always end up doing something that it townie, even if you have to look scummy on your way there. Artanis[Xp] hasn't done this and he is quite clearly scum. Now he's just showing up to defend himself in a very scum like way. So pile on to him now. You guys have no excuse because I have now repeatedly told you that Artanis[Xp] is very likely scum and that VisceraEyes is very likely town. If you decide to screw this up then shame on you. I want to know your resolution day 3, when mafia hasn't hit VE or Toad. And its still in the back of everyones minds whether there truthful or lying. I know your stance on VE what are your thoughts on Toad? I also think Artanis is scummy, but that is not the point ATM, im almost certain there is scum between VE and Toad, and we can't let Day 3 discussion be taken over by this issue. | ||
prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
On April 13 2012 01:08 marvellosity wrote: We're not listening when YOU have totally ignored my wbg case? Nice one I am telling you that Artanis[Xp] is pretty clearly scum and now you're telling me that you have a good reason not to listen because I didn't read some shabby case you wrote? The only reason you have not to listen to my case is that it's bad, not that I didn't listen to your case. I just replaced into this game, I have a very much more valid excuse for not having read this entire thread than you do. I can tell you that this is one of the worst threads that I have ever had to fight my way through and people like you are responsible for that, you just post whatever meaningless one liner you have on your mind and allow scum to easily blend into the spammy madness. I didn't see your case but I'm pretty sure it's bad because wherebugsgo looks pretty townie to me. Now pile on to Artanis[Xp] @EchelonTee No I don't really think that Toadesstern is too scummy right now. There's no "resolution", no big "epiphany" that we will get from lynching either of those. We lynch someone because they are scum and Artanis[Xp] is the most clear scum in this game. I don't really care that you were wrong about michaelthe because I'm not wrong about Artanis[Xp]. | ||
marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
On April 13 2012 01:21 prplhz wrote: I am telling you that Artanis[Xp] is pretty clearly scum and now you're telling me that you have a good reason not to listen because I didn't read some shabby case you wrote? The only reason you have not to listen to my case is that it's bad, not that I didn't listen to your case. I just replaced into this game, I have a very much more valid excuse for not having read this entire thread than you do. I can tell you that this is one of the worst threads that I have ever had to fight my way through and people like you are responsible for that, you just post whatever meaningless one liner you have on your mind and allow scum to easily blend into the spammy madness. I didn't see your case but I'm pretty sure it's bad because wherebugsgo looks pretty townie to me. Now pile on to Artanis[Xp] @EchelonTee No I don't really think that Toadesstern is too scummy right now. There's no "resolution", no big "epiphany" that we will get from lynching either of those. We lynch someone because they are scum and Artanis[Xp] is the most clear scum in this game. I don't really care that you were wrong about michaelthe because I'm not wrong about Artanis[Xp]. Wow. Douchemode GO! My case was only a couple of pages ago, quite considerably AFTER you replaced in. If you're not willing to keep up with the thread once you've joined, gtfo. Calling my case shabby and bad before you read it? gtfo. | ||
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GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On March 31 2012 10:37 GMarshal wrote: A few GMarshal specific tidbits 1.) Play nice. This is a refined game, I expect you all to behave like Gentlemen (or Ladies, as the case may be). I will not hesitate to modkill or outright ban you for excessive behavior My patience is wearing thin on this one. Behave guys. | ||
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GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
On April 13 2012 01:20 Mementoss wrote: I want to know your resolution day 3, when mafia hasn't hit VE or Toad. And its still in the back of everyones minds whether there truthful or lying. I know your stance on VE what are your thoughts on Toad? I also think Artanis is scummy, but that is not the point ATM, im almost certain there is scum between VE and Toad, and we can't let Day 3 discussion be taken over by this issue. If it's a bad thing that people are thinking about VisceraEyes and Toadesstern then they should stop thinking about them. You are literally saying "If we're in MYLO tomorrow, I'm going to ruin the day by talking and thinking solely about VisceraEyes and Toadesstern even though I think that that is bad for town." and I can't really prevent you from doing that in any sensible way. If you think it's bad to think about those two then stop doing it. We can't kill everybody just because you don't really know what to think about them. Furthermore, I believe that Artanis[Xp] should be lynched. | ||
prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
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