TL Mafia LI - Page 60

On April 11 2012 17:20 VisceraEyes wrote:


Okay, first of all, no one is confirmed until they die and flip. In a game with possible framers, uncertain sanities and godfathers, no one is confirmed until they die and flip. I don't care if you explain it in seven thousand phases. No one is confirmed until they die and flip.

This is so important, and I'll be repeating it often.

Of course noone is confirmed until death, you know I'm using that word like that...
I said you are confirmed mafia in storm. I said bugs is confirmed mafia in storm. I said sandro is confirmed mafia in L.
I said I am confirmed town in AC, I said the docH is confirmed town in AC, I said I am confirmed town in my first ever game of mafia on the last day.
The point is, I am looking incredible good


I'll do you one better. I'll assume we have two town vigs for a second. Know why? BECAUSE TWO OF THEM FLIPPED WITH THE NIGHT KILLS. Two town vigs flipped with the night-kills. But, none of that matters because...



...your entire reasoning for being "confirmed" by the night-kills is at best COMPLETELY WIFOM and at worst indicative of you having knowledge of what happened overnight. Let me explain.

First of all, your point on "asking medics to protect Jackal" is completely moot because Jackal died. Not only does it not prove that you're town, but you drawing attention to it only makes you seem desperate to "look town".

Secondly, I have NO idea what happened overnight. While it appears likely that scum hit 3 targets, I can't know that for sure because we FLIPPED 2 vigs who aren't here to tell us if they shot and we have one vig (alignment undetermined) who claims the shot on michael. So it's entirely possible that both Jackal AND sputnik shot and, for instance, scum double-stacked Jackal (what I would have done) or bugs (also what I would have done). The fact of the matter is that A TOWNIE CANNOT CLAIM TO KNOW WITH ANY CERTAINTY WHAT HAPPENED OVERNIGHT. The fact that you are claiming that this is some kind of "proof" that "scum one-shotted all 3 of these people" tells me without a doubt that you KNOW this to be the case. Why do I think this? Because I was on your team in XLVIII and you're a scumslipping maniac. So if I had to guess, I'd say that you're absolutely right about the night-kills...but not because you've "proven" it with your WIFOM bullshit, but because I know you like to give town more information than it has when you roll scum.

What now?

I like it when people talk about wifom. That's usually mafia not knowing what to do anymore. You said it. There is no confirmation in this game other than death. Therefore pretty much every thing is wifom to some degree and it comes down to judging what degree that is and what is more likely.
Remember SSB-IRC-Mafia where I took 6 hits as town and 6 KP were missing (missing KP was actually confirmed)?
You said that's wifom and I could be mafia shooting myself 6 times in a row to look townish. Sure that's possible but come on, who believes that kind of stuff.
There's a reason people like Syllo keep saying there is no such thing as wifom and that "wifom" is the worst word ever to be included in mafia vocabulary.

Secondly I think I have a pretty good idea what happened overnight. That's because I look at the nightkills and ask myself what makes sense, not what's possible.
So you think Mafia might have doublestacked Jackal or WBG? Awesome, that's making my point looking even better because that makes 3 more KP makeing it even less likely I am mafia considering I said I want people to protect myself and Jackal.
About that 48 thing and me scumslipping. Want to have a collection of me "scumslipping" as town as well? I can deliver a dozen of those if you give me enough time to search. I remember most of those moments because I'm raging hardcore if someone gets what I am saying completly wrong when I am town. Like Jackal did in storm, like wbg did in storm 2 or 3 (?) times, like *whoever was the guy* in my 2nd game of mafia. Seriously I ask you to find a single game of mafia in which noone pointed out a "scumslip" about me EXCEPT for 48 because frankly noone found something there.
That's because I'm not checking my posts as much as town and that way I do end up having poor grammar or spelling from time to time as town. Yeah I could do that on purpose right now and scumslip on purpose, but do you really think so?
If you're someone from the US or UK that might be something but as a non-native speaking guy you have people misunderstanding you ALL THE TIME because you posted something that makes perfect sense with german gramar for example but sounds weird in english because I used "and" instead of "but" (that's the one Jackal found in storm) I think



First of all, there was no trouble getting the lynch done on Janaan, and that's due partially to myself and bugs switching to make it happen when the Hassybaby wagon was going nowhere. You're framing your argument with a fact that is completely irrelevant to your point.

Yeah you made a townie Lynch happen EASILY. Good job VE on EASILY getting 17 people on someone (I think?) when 16 was the magic number and people switched the last 20 mins or something like that. Also I like to another time emphasize the townie aspect of me saying that townie was a townie you lynched

Second of all, look at the times bro. Between the time you and Bugs voted for Hassybaby and my case was ~1 hour, and guess what? It was the hour that I was reading filters and writing my cases on Hassybaby and you. You know, The scum-read you've completely forsaken to push this fail-wagon? Bugs too? Remember Hassybaby? Yeah, I was suspicious of Hassybaby, but I didn't "hop on when it was convenient"...I hopped on as soon as I saw that there was support and thought I could help in pushing the wagon. Remind me again how this is "convenient"? And remind me how your vote on Hassybaby a mere hour before mine was any LESS convenient? Your reasoning is seriously faulty here, and it's maliciously wrong. Again, this isn't confirming you as town. Know why? Because no one is confirmed until they die and flip.

My vote is better because I already anounced it like 6 hours before that?
And yeah I get that noone is confirmed until they die. Yet I still am trying to make the most reasonable calls with the information I got isntead of crawling in the edge of my room whining about how I can't confirm a single person in this game
Your whole reasoning for being "confirmed" is a fucking joke, and the fact that town is buying it is also a fucking joke.

I'm not laughing anymore.



Yeah fucker, really. I saw town consolidating (finally) on SOMEONE in Janaan in my readthrough, so in my case I gave my top scum-reads and voted for who was (by my estimation) our best bet for a lynch. I missed your vote and Bugs' vote in my case-building time, and I had no idea there would be support for my scum candidate. What did I do when I realized my oversight? Why, I acted to correct it! Immediately! I pushed what I thought was the more PRO-TOWN lynch in Hassybaby. I've explained all this. Who isn't reading again?

Still saying, you could have done that way earlier



Actually, Katina has been calling you scum all game. I find it awfully convenient that you forgot this fact considering MY ENTIRE CASE AGAINST YOU TO BEGIN WITH WAS YOUR REACTION TO KATINA VOTING FOR YOU. Oh that's right, you conveniently forget that I did actually write you up as scum in that post too. Who isn't reading again? Wasn't me...

Katina did not call me scum the entire game. He got in this thread, saying "sup, Toad is posting walls of texts therefore Toad is mafia" and left the thread for almost 2 days. Not posting something, not pushing me, nothing.
He gets in here today again saying I need to die without saying anything else. I don't consider that calling me scum.

You think my reaction to Katina makes me scum? Yeah next time I'll vote myself and pull a hyshes, sry I was defending myself



So your case on me is: that I think you're unreadable, but have a read on you? My OPINION is that you were unreadable before. Now you've shown your colors. Now you're going to fucking die.

Nah, the case is you being mafia due to meta. Things like those just add up

To Summarize:
Toadesstern's case against me is 2 phases of WIFOM and bullshit about him being lolConfirmed and 1 phase of "he said I'm unreadable but he has a read on me".

This is the case that everyone is saying "makes so much sense" and sheeping Toad and Bugs over.

If you read this post and made it to the bottom, please go back and read Toad's case again, then come read my response again. He really is this dumb.

Stay tuned for my own little Phase 2 where I describe in great detail why Bugs is scum for being so maliciously stupid in regards to Toad!

On April 11 2012 17:51 Zealos wrote:
It's a fair point you make in the 2nd half of the post, and should have said that to begin with, instead of getting so pissy. I think it's easy to point me as inactive as I miss most of the discussion while I am asleep, and have to catch up and try to post something useful in the morning.

I think WBG is very difficult to analyse. I am leaning towards scum, but I think VE would be a stronger lynch for today. Kenpachi seems useless, making odd votes and not often trying to make a case about it, or convince the rest of town to vote the same way.

I think you are town. However, I also think you are getting too emotionally attached to the game and need to step back and look at the bigger picture. An angry town is a bad town, we need to analyse posts with objectivity in order to get the best reads.

Scum
VisceraEyes
Possibly Toad, based on the VE flip

Suspicious
Kenpachi
Zelblade (inactivity and unwilling to post, I'd like him to answer the same questions as me)

The people I think are town
Jitsu
ET
Gonzaw
Toad (again, depending on whether or not VE flips mafia)

On April 08 2012 16:15 zelblade wrote:
Hi guys :D

First off, I'll be all for lynching a lurker today assuming we cant find a better targert. We probably could do better though, so lets start hunting some scum.

I find Risen's "case" on ET to be bad. Whilst ET was being fluffy in his first couple of posts (which is rather normal on the start of day 1 considering there is little to analyze), I dont really see how ET is kicking up dirt or how a smiley face or 2 is scummy. Its weak, and based off nothing much though.

The question here is if Risen is being dense on purpose. I dont think he is for now... Although I dont like his case, he could easily be a bad townie, and I feel that scum (esp considering that hes relatively new) wouldnt be this agressive early.

On April 11 2012 19:46 Hassybaby wrote:
VE, what do you think about gonzaw? A few points I've felt recently:

- I really don't like how he's trying to cut the main discussion of today (between you and Toad) to get people's opinions on his cases.
- Also, is pushes on people who are not the main candidates doesn't sit well for me because he's not given a good reason of saying your cases are not as good as his.
- That program was just pointless. Firstly, we all know that the first cycle has not gone well, and we need to get lynches right. Second, the lost of potential insta-loss situations is fearmongering, and that's never a town thing.