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On April 10 2012 09:35 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2012 09:16 EchelonTee wrote:On April 10 2012 09:11 Jackal58 wrote:On April 10 2012 09:05 wherebugsgo wrote:
From my perspective, I found it somewhat odd that people were all of a sudden willing to lynch Hassy. I didn't expect it, but I didn't care much because I need support to be able to kill Hassy anyway. So far the support has not come from suspicious players to me (I count one potential scum in the Hassy lynch supporters, unless I'm just being bad right now)
To me this indicates one of a few different possibilities;
1. Hassy was scummy to several people but not brought up because of the current sentiment to lynch Janaan (i.e. potential resistance to a new lynch this late would make it difficult or possibly even impossible to kill Hassy)
2. Janaan is scum and Hassy is town, which indicates scum want to kill Hassy over Janaan. We'd find out relatively quickly if that were the case, though, I think. (and by that, I mean within a cycle or so) So far I don't find any glaring indications of this.
3. Both are town, both are scum, or Hassy is scum and Janaan is town; in the first case, anything goes. In both of the second cases resistance to a Hassy lynch is just indication of a good lynch. + Show Spoiler +On April 10 2012 07:10 wherebugsgo wrote:
Are you scum? Only scum care more about which lynch will "give more info" rather than actually trying to lynch the guy...oh I dunno...that is actually more likely to be scum. O-^ Jackal, shred your "intelligent townie" card, now you're just trying to call people stupid. In WBG's first post, he says, here I'll caps it for you SO FAR I DON'T FIND ANY GLARING INDICATIONS OF THIS. Translation: He DOES NOT think Janaan is scum and that Hassy is town. Therefore, his later post saying that hassy is "actually more likely to be scum, is um CONSISTENT. I'm very disappointed in you Jackal, I had respect for you. I now carry the hurt one sustains in a marshmallow fight. The comparison was to his statement regarding "lynching for info instead of lynching scum" To his apparent desire to lynch for info.
nope, I prefer lynching Hassy because I think he's more likely to be scum than Janaan.
If ultimately it's apparent that continuing to vote Hassy will result in a no-lynch I will switch to Janaan, since I find him scummy as well, just not as scummy.
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On April 10 2012 08:53 ghost_403 wrote:@WBG: this post is why I'm happy with lynching Janaan. If you are a townie paying the least bit of attention, you should always know who you want to lynch. This is a lob, and he should have hit it out of the park. Instead, he has to sit down and figure it out. Classic scum, in my book.
lmao. it's not always about WHAT you say, it's about HOW you say it. See look:
It is the "how" that is really important, not the "what." -Ver, in How to Improve
That post by Janaan is actually one of the more genuine posts in his filter. He is just saying plainly that he doesn't know at that point; the manner in which he says it is very matter-of fact. I find other things about Janaan scummy, but being happy with lynching someone ONLY b/c they say "I don't know who I want to lynch", disregarding that they DID come back later after being pressured? Your reasoning is odd ghost. FoS
@Risen WBG is trying to get at something; whether he's town or not, this is giving a lot of information about people in the game. It irks me (on a personal level) that you said "unlike you useless WBG i've been here whole time". It's fine if you disagree with him and you outline why (which you have), but it's not a good town atmosphere to call this or that person useless unless they are being outlandishly disruptive, which is quite rare. Think Caller in TL LII: JubJub Mafia. Also, stop buddying up to me, it's making me suspicious of you.
@Hassybaby, pray tell me why is a late switch inherently scummy? A late switch is bad only if it is a random easy bandwagon. Think Dimmuklok's D1 Lynch in Surprisingly Normal VII. Quoting Ver's guide again:
The most useless kind of lynch is a last minute switch that is really easy and safe to hop on the bandwagon for. If there's a highly polarized lynch, the dead information + voting lists can provide a lot, even if the people accused are all innocent (then you can see who's manipulating just out of site).
This new wagon is polarized as fck and can provide a lot. You didn't respond to the accusations at you at all, and all you are doing is implying that Janaan is scum and that WBG must be coming in with a late surge to protect him. How can you so easily conclude that WBG must be scum defending Janaan?
What is really annoying me so far in this game is people concluding "oh scum wouldn't do this so blah blah", or "both of these people can't be scum let's flip one and see what happens" because this model only works if people playing scum are bad as hell. Imagine a scum WBG sees his scum-mate Janaan getting hammered; you don't think that WBG would think "hmm I don't like my scumbuddy's imminent lynch. I'm going to attempt a vote switch, knowing that it will put me under a lot of scrutiny, and that if Janaan flips I am fcked. Yep, I'm going to do that". You think that is the most likely scenario, and that it couldn't POSSIBLY be that WBG just thought Hassy was scummy for a while?
You fit a lot of the bills of common mafia - posting a little but not a lot, rarely posting original ideas or contributions, content not to do much as bandwagons build up. And your only response is "lol scum trying to take me down" and a nonsensical poem.Frankly your lynch is looking more and more accurate as a scum lynch, will provide information, and has enough following to happen, with enough resistance that it feels more likely that it isn't just another random townie. Especially since none of the resistance really revolves around the actual cases against you, and only the situation. I need to do more reading/meta but I'm very on board with a Hassy lynch.
I end this post with a final quote from Ver's guide:
Overall, when a mafia is suddenly put in the spotlight out of nowhere, especially this early on, the entire mafia team will be thrown into a state of chaos and will not know how to react properly.
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I liked how everyone pushing the Hassy lynch are people who havent posted actively in this thread barely at all for the good part of day 1.
Sloosh, Michael, WBG, Grackaroni, VE
Literally all were considered to be lurking/not really contributing for the good part of day 1, then come in a couple hours before the lynch for the Hassy Push, and conviently they all just agree its a good idea. Even though there is no way it will reach majority, and we were already struggling to gain a majority on Janaan, but at least it was happening.
VE just happens to wait till the end of the day to post anything that can be used as a case. Most of WBG filter is just him defending the push of the Hassy No lynch. Grackaroni hasn't said much of anything other than I'll read the thread and then states a half ass last minute Hassy case to get on this Hassy train started by VE(mainly - not first to vote but got idea rolling). Michael states no lynch would be bad, then votes Hassy. Completely contradicting. Sat on 3 fluff posts, defends himself somewhat, then immediately jumps the hassy train. Here is slooshs exact reasoning for changing onto the Hassy train:
On April 10 2012 06:44 slOosh wrote:
I wanna lynch Hassybaby.
On April 10 2012 06:57 slOosh wrote:
Nice.
##Vote: Hassybaby
Derp.
Im not saying everyone voting hassy is scum, the case is interesting (though I don't think it is the best), I'm just saying the timing is incredibly odd by these players to finally state their opinions. Toad is also on hassy train, but he has been going on about a bunch of stuff all day.
The way this thing a good portion of this happened smells scummy to me.
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Hassy and Risen are both defending Hassy too much for them both to be scum. Maybe Risen is just actually convinced Hassy inst scum.
On the other hand, their defense, esp. from Hassy, relies on the premise that they've identified 3/6 scum, which is so unlikely on day 1.
Although, now we have Janaan's post just now. He identified: Jakal, Artanis, Hussy, and myself as "scummy". Grats gai! you got 4/6 of us on day 1! /sarcasm
I duno, I just can't really imagine Risen and Hassy buddying up so close if Hassy were scum.
Then again, Im not really convinced Janaan is actually scum. I guess if Im not convienced that either is scum, Id rather have around Hassy than Janaan tomorrow.
##Unvote: Hassybaby
##Vote: Janaan
We'd better not end today with a friggen no lynch though.
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On April 10 2012 09:41 EchelonTee wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2012 08:53 ghost_403 wrote:@WBG: this post is why I'm happy with lynching Janaan. If you are a townie paying the least bit of attention, you should always know who you want to lynch. This is a lob, and he should have hit it out of the park. Instead, he has to sit down and figure it out. Classic scum, in my book. lmao. it's not always about WHAT you say, it's about HOW you say it. See look: Show nested quote + It is the "how" that is really important, not the "what." -Ver, in How to Improve That post by Janaan is actually one of the more genuine posts in his filter. He is just saying plainly that he doesn't know at that point; the manner in which he says it is very matter-of fact. I find other things about Janaan scummy, but being happy with lynching someone ONLY b/c they say "I don't know who I want to lynch", disregarding that they DID come back later after being pressured? Your reasoning is odd ghost. FoS
@Risen WBG is trying to get at something; whether he's town or not, this is giving a lot of information about people in the game. It irks me (on a personal level) that you said "unlike you useless WBG i've been here whole time". It's fine if you disagree with him and you outline why (which you have), but it's not a good town atmosphere to call this or that person useless unless they are being outlandishly disruptive, which is quite rare. Think Caller in TL LII: JubJub Mafia. Also, stop buddying up to me, it's making me suspicious of you.
@Hassybaby, pray tell me why is a late switch inherently scummy? A late switch is bad only if it is a random easy bandwagon. Think Dimmuklok's D1 Lynch in Surprisingly Normal VII. Quoting Ver's guide again: Show nested quote +The most useless kind of lynch is a last minute switch that is really easy and safe to hop on the bandwagon for. If there's a highly polarized lynch, the dead information + voting lists can provide a lot, even if the people accused are all innocent (then you can see who's manipulating just out of site). This new wagon is polarized as fck and can provide a lot. You didn't respond to the accusations at you at all, and all you are doing is implying that Janaan is scum and that WBG must be coming in with a late surge to protect him. How can you so easily conclude that WBG must be scum defending Janaan? What is really annoying me so far in this game is people concluding "oh scum wouldn't do this so blah blah", or "both of these people can't be scum let's flip one and see what happens" because this model only works if people playing scum are bad as hell. Imagine a scum WBG sees his scum-mate Janaan getting hammered; you don't think that WBG would think "hmm I don't like my scumbuddy's imminent lynch. I'm going to attempt a vote switch, knowing that it will put me under a lot of scrutiny, and that if Janaan flips I am fcked. Yep, I'm going to do that". You think that is the most likely scenario, and that it couldn't POSSIBLY be that WBG just thought Hassy was scummy for a while? You fit a lot of the bills of common mafia - posting a little but not a lot, rarely posting original ideas or contributions, content not to do much as bandwagons build up. And your only response is "lol scum trying to take me down" and a nonsensical poem.Frankly your lynch is looking more and more accurate as a scum lynch, will provide information, and has enough following to happen, with enough resistance that it feels more likely that it isn't just another random townie. Especially since none of the resistance really revolves around the actual cases against you, and only the situation. I need to do more reading/meta but I'm very on board with a Hassy lynch. I end this post with a final quote from Ver's guide: Show nested quote +Overall, when a mafia is suddenly put in the spotlight out of nowhere, especially this early on, the entire mafia team will be thrown into a state of chaos and will not know how to react properly.
I like you, you actually read and use your brain.
If there were 15 of you in DFM2 I might have actually enjoyed that game.
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Going to bed now guess I will see if we get a lynch or not tommorrow.
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Thanks WBG. I guess I don't use my brain. 
I'm at work. This will be short and sweet.
Vote Janaan.
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On April 10 2012 09:35 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2012 09:16 EchelonTee wrote:On April 10 2012 09:11 Jackal58 wrote:On April 10 2012 09:05 wherebugsgo wrote:
From my perspective, I found it somewhat odd that people were all of a sudden willing to lynch Hassy. I didn't expect it, but I didn't care much because I need support to be able to kill Hassy anyway. So far the support has not come from suspicious players to me (I count one potential scum in the Hassy lynch supporters, unless I'm just being bad right now)
To me this indicates one of a few different possibilities;
1. Hassy was scummy to several people but not brought up because of the current sentiment to lynch Janaan (i.e. potential resistance to a new lynch this late would make it difficult or possibly even impossible to kill Hassy)
2. Janaan is scum and Hassy is town, which indicates scum want to kill Hassy over Janaan. We'd find out relatively quickly if that were the case, though, I think. (and by that, I mean within a cycle or so) So far I don't find any glaring indications of this.
3. Both are town, both are scum, or Hassy is scum and Janaan is town; in the first case, anything goes. In both of the second cases resistance to a Hassy lynch is just indication of a good lynch. + Show Spoiler +On April 10 2012 07:10 wherebugsgo wrote:
Are you scum? Only scum care more about which lynch will "give more info" rather than actually trying to lynch the guy...oh I dunno...that is actually more likely to be scum. O-^ Jackal, shred your "intelligent townie" card, now you're just trying to call people stupid. In WBG's first post, he says, here I'll caps it for you SO FAR I DON'T FIND ANY GLARING INDICATIONS OF THIS. Translation: He DOES NOT think Janaan is scum and that Hassy is town. Therefore, his later post saying that hassy is "actually more likely to be scum, is um CONSISTENT. I'm very disappointed in you Jackal, I had respect for you. I now carry the hurt one sustains in a marshmallow fight. The comparison was to his statement regarding "lynching for info instead of lynching scum" To his apparent desire to lynch for info.
His first statement doesn't say he wants to lynch for info, he is saying that over time, if it's Scenario 2, it should be come obvious quickly, and the he doesn't find Scenario 2 to be most likely. Saying that a lynch will give such and such information is not the same as saying "I support this lynch more becuase it gives information", he already stated that he thought Hassy had a higher chance of being scum. His second statement obviously he is against primarily lynching for info.
It would've helped if you had posted this comparison, though erroneous, in your original post instead of just putting an emoticon. I wish people like you who were both A. intelligent, and B. legitimately good at mafia would actually post clearly and, you know, play the game. It seems you guys only get aroused when people call you out for your BS.
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Adam and gonzaw, you should be around by now. I don't know your alignment but I know that you're logical. Hassy or Janaan, 1 hour, that's what we've got. I'll be around for the hour, thinking.
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Tunkeg, saying that I should be aware of your meta is not a vaild reason for me to not be pressing you, to try and figure out your alignment. Your reads were vague, so I pressed you, that's how this game works.
I am glad you are putting some non-vague content into the thread, even if I had to provoke you to do it. I do not agree with you on Gonzaw, he seems to be posting without fear or hesitation. I am slightly suspicious of Blazinghands lower then usual activity, but it is Easter and there are people that look worse then he does right now.
I prefer a Janaan lynch over Hassybaby right now, if those are the only two on offer. Hassy is trolling with RP, which is needlessly drawing attention to himself whereas Janaan is trying to blend in with the crowd. I also think the way all of these votes for Hassy have flooded in just screams suspect and diversion.
Janaan had produced very little until he was prodded by Gonzaw, to which he put out a weak case against Jitsu.
On April 10 2012 02:47 Janaan wrote:At this point in the day, just going by the latest vote count, the only real chance we have to lynch today is Tunkeg, myself, and MAYBE Sputnik, so I'll be focusing my attention on Tunkeg for the time being. He spent a lot of time defending his "random lynch" idea. It seems to me that if it was merely to generate discussion like he claims, it would have made more sense to drop it, after seeing that no one wanted to talk about random lynching. Instead, all he really did was inflate his post count, and stall actual discussion. He also seems a bit wishy washy on his stance on me when Gonzaw asked about it. + Show Spoiler +On April 09 2012 07:44 Tunkeg wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 07:18 gonzaw wrote:
Tunkeg, Jackal, jhonny.
What do you guys think about Toad? And what do you think about Janaan? Do you think my previous case holds enough water or not to lynch Janaan? Toad isn't as spammy as last time I played with him AC. Does this make him scum, I don't know. I don't see what some players see in him. I see him as pretty much null. Like almost every other player in this game thus far. Your case on Janaan. Well I think it is forced, and somewhat premature. Reading that much from one post. I put it in the same category as BH's posts. Are you wrong for doing it? Who am I to judge. Maybe your pressure will create results from Janaan, maybe not. Still I like your case on Janaan better then BH's pressure on ST. He just kept pounding on him, not giving him a chance to explain himself. He says the case was forced, reading that much from a single post was bad, but then he says he still likes it better than BH. Which is it? If it was bad, then does it matter if it's better than another bad case? Make up your mind. When asked by WBG who he would lynch, he shows that he hasn't really been scum hunting much at all by saying no one, and if he has been scum hunting, he doesn't believe his own reads. Then, just 4 hours later, he calls Gonzaw "obvious scum" and never gives a reason for it. Now he seems to have just given up. He says he'll post his reads later, but regardless, later will be too late if he really is town. I'll be back on long before the deadline, for now I'll be in class for a few hours, though. ##Vote: Tunkeg
This post here caught my interest. His first line he admits that he is in the firing line, so he is just going to build a case against the other guy with the most votes. The rest of it is just rehashing ideas that I and other people have already put forward on Tunkeg.
His case again, feels forced, same as the case on Jitsu, as it was only produced after he was pressed for it. He only seems to put content into the thread when he is attacked, and then he disappears again until the next time someone takes an interest in him.
##Vote: Janaan
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alright screw this, there isn't enough support for a Hassy lynch. I'm switching back over to Janaan.
If he flips town then I hope scum shoot me tonight so I don't have to endure another DFM2 all over again.
##unvote Hassybaby
##vote Janaan
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Yeah, I'm okay with Janaan as well. I'm more confident in Hassy and Toad, but I was never really AGAINST a Janaan lynch.
Let's do this guys.
##Unvote: Hassybaby
##Vote: Janaan
If Janaan flips town OR scum, I hope scum shoot someone other than me so I can maybe play a game of Mafia up in this piece. ^^
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VE if you're still alive D2 then you're obviously scum. You're the #1 town player in this game scum know this
+ Show Spoiler +
eh. This is leaving a sour taste in my mouth but I guess this is how it's going to be. My vote is still on Janaan. GL, no more vote switch shenanigans town kk.
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kk. I've been willing to lynch either hassy or janaan (or sputnik but there hasnt been much interest surrounding that), so if it's either i'm cool with it.
##Unvote: Hassybaby
##Vote: Janaan
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I put myself at a solid #3 behind Jackal and Bugs. I have good instincts, but they use actual logic. :S But yeah, I've been "Flavor of the Month" for N1 hits, that's for sure.
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I'm praying the scum swapping back to janaan are doing so b/c it's a lost cause trying to save him and not b/c we're lynching a townie. johnnywup D2 lynch go.
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Risen you're not using your brain at all. Stop letting your emotions tell you what to say.
Thank you, that is all.
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I wanted either Janaan or Hassy to be lynched. Switching between the two when interest on one wanes isn't scummy. I'm supportive of either lynch, Risen.
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I would be good if I could actually make good reads. sigh...
playing LoL, be back at deadline.
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to be fair I haven't played much town recently and my reads have never been that good
not since PYP:I or resurrection anyway, and those were a long time ago
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EPT
