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On April 09 2012 10:59 Janaan wrote:
After a quick re-read of the early game, I'd say Jitsu is a good candidate. His first two posts are totally worthless to me, consisting of nothing but "you scum?". Then he mentions Grackroni, but doesn't feel the need to give a reason until asked about it. His reasoning doesn't make a whole lot of sense, if for no other reason that he doesn't really explain why what he's saying is true. Even though he REALLY thinks Grackroni is scum.
From there on, all he really does is berate Risen for what he calls "the smiley face incident" which no one could really say was a good idea, and Risen himself admits that. Then he just dismisses Risen's post explaining himself, saying that it was something scum and town would both do, which seems to me to serve no purpose other than to cast doubt on Risen.
Firstly, just because I haven't said anything since VE looking over Grack's filter doesn't mean I don't think he's scum. I value VE's opinion and thought process in this game, and since there isn't enough to do anything against Grack with yet, except for the fact that he's keep a massive low profile and blending in well, there isn't anything to push.
Secondly, if all you got from my post is that I think Risen's response is something that town or mafia would do, then there is no hope for you in this game at all.
Anyway, in response to gonzaw:
Janaan - Not sure, haven't even looked through his filter yet. I'm probably going to wait until tomorrow to delve into them, since at this point, we might have twenty pages in the thread, but a lot of it equates to less then one page of actual filter on some people. As for overall posting behavior, I think he needs to get hit shit straight because if i'm his best candidate to kill right now, he really needs to reassess his ability.
Toad - This Toad looks a lot like Toad from Storm, at least at surface value. I'd like to see more of him, only with better edited posts, because they are hurting my face.  (((.
As for others, I think Risen is pretty red, for reasons stated previously, and Grack looks red to me as well, but I want to see more of his behavior other then the fact that it's so hard to find.
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On April 09 2012 10:23 Janaan wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 06:54 gonzaw wrote:On April 08 2012 09:51 Janaan wrote:
1.I see we started early. Excellent. This will be my first non-newbie mini game, so bear with me while I get a handle on reading and analyzing a much bigger thread with 3 times the players.
2.Only things that have really stood out to me so far: I like VE's initiative to get rid of lurking in a proactive way. My town games have pretty much been ruined by just a couple people lurking, and I imagine with more people playing, that problem could potentially be even worse.
3.Sl0osh, I know you're a pretty smart guy, I find it interesting that you didn't understand the Stealthy mechanic, at least well enough to have a basic understanding of it. The first thing that came to my mind when you asked for clarification? You could need more information because you ARE stealthy. I've got my eye on you.
4.Other than that, so far it seems to be mostly people posting fluffy first hour of Day 1 statements as people often do.
God Save the Queen! I found this post pretty bad 1.I don't like this tone. He tries to undermine his own play right here, saying "bear with me while I get a handle...". 2.Why say this about VE? You "like" him because he wants to get rid of lurking in a proactive way? Are you kidding me? You are telling me you never played a game where people discussed lynching and killing lurkers? It's more fluff to make it appear he's contributing. 3.Notice the words he uses. "I find it interesting that you didn't understand the Stealthy mechanic"; "I've got my eye on you". First of all, he finds that behaviour from sloosh suspicious, which is totally bullshit since no sane scum with the Stealthy trait will directly talk about it in the thread instead of PMing the mods in the first place. Second, he doesn't even seem to directly confront sloosh. He says "I find it interesting", seems too wishy washy to be an actual accusation. Again, seems like a classic scumtell of accusing someone without directly confronting them, hoping someone else will read it and confront sloosh about it; or to put some doubt in sloosh so he can come back to said suspicious later, while nobody notices said suspicion right now. 4. Again, more fluff. What motivation does he have to post this? Just more fluff (which is just a "retelling" of what's happening in the thread, it serves no purpose) to make his post look bigger. Each individual thing from your post isn't enough to make one think you are scum, but the fact that you made all of them in a single post looks very bad. I'd say you are scum, specially since you've posted almost nothing at all since, yet your post seemed to imply you were eager to participate and kind of "enthusiastic" about the game, which you clearly aren't. That isn't too damning though, maybe it's the time-zone or something, but whenever I find lack of participation when one was eager to do so before suspicious I'm generally right. ##Vote: Janaan Let me walk through my train of thought when I posted this. Before I do, though, I want to address your last comment first. I haven't been posting because my internet was out at my apartment last night. I left for a few hours after making this post, and when I got back, I couldn't connect. I know this could be considered a cop out answer, but it's 100% true. Today, with Easter I got home from church later than usual, then I took a nap for a couple hours. I did briefly read the thread before taking the nap, but I didn't want to clutter the thread with what would have ended up being a totally useless post by any standard. Which brings us to now. 1. I know most people in this game haven't played with me before, and unless they pay attention to the newbie games, they haven't even heard my name before. I just wanted to give a quick overview of my experience (or lack thereof) without taking too much time. It may not have been necessary, but I felt that I should include it somewhere. 2. At this point in the game, not a whole lot had happened. From my point of view, the only post that I felt really had much content was VEs, so I gave my opinion on what he said. Sure, I've been in games where people discussed lurker lynching. Does that mean that we shouldn't ever discuss it again? No one else had really said much about it, and I thought it was good that VE was taking a proactive approach to getting rid of lurkers, so I said so. 3. You're basing this point off the specific words I chose to use? Really? These are pretty common words for me, honestly. It's just how I talk. Again, I was posting my first reaction of Sl0osh's post. It may not be the most insightful comment on what he said, but that's what I thought. I didn't intend on really accusing him, I was curious if/what he would say in response, but that observation is not even close to enough to call someone scum, at least for me. "I've got my eye on you" is just me saying I'll be paying close attention to Sl0osh's posts and nothing more. 4. Sure, it's fluff. If it was just to make my post look bigger as you say, though, it would be more than one line. As it is, it doesn't make anything look bigger. But sure, it was probably unnecessary.
There's no excuse for you to make such a post.
As in, there's nothing you can say that can make me think your post was more "townie". It is obvious you would defend yourself like you did just now, whether you are town or scum.
3.The point is that you paint sloosh suspicious but don't directly accuse him, and those words happen to reflect that.
Anyways, so you don't have any thoughts about anything else? I'm gonna keep my vote on you until you contribute more and convince me you are not scum.
I'll most likely keep my vote on you. The only other player I could see changing my vote to at this point would be Toad or Tunkeg; but I think you are more likely to flip scum.
Again, if someone didn't comment on Janaan by now, please do. I want your opinion on Janaan and that post of his, and I want you to know if you'd want to kill him or not.
About Risen:
I don't want him lynched right now.
Yes, he's being stubborn and possibly stupid; but I know he did something similar (i.e stubborn and stupid) on Game of Thrones Mafia, so it's not unlike him to act like this.
He was one of the first players to start discussion. He instantly accused johnny and ET, and posted very early. He was aggressive at a time where scum don't need to be aggressive. He moved discussion forwards, whether his case and accusations were stupid or not.
If he was scum he would have been content leaving every townie to fend for themselves in the first few hours only discussing Policy lynches, etc (I know I would have if I was scum).
I don't know what Caller did on JubJub, but Caller is a more experienced player that knows what to do as scum, and knows the consequences it can get.
I doubt you could say that Risen planned making a "joke" case on ET on the first hour of the game to create "chaos" or something.
It could be though, everything is possible, but there are far better candidates for a Day 1 lynch.
Grack is an interesting find though, his posts didn't strike me as odd (and like VE mentioned his first post was pretty good and had quite a lot of content), but I'm waiting for his thoughts on Toad/Janaan/etc as well.
@Sloosh: I'm waiting for your response and contributions as well, if not I wouldn't mind you getting lynched either.
@Jitsu: Dude, Janaan has 2-3 posts what the hell are you talking about "I don't have time to look at his filter" or something?
Anyways, please do, I'll wait for your thoughts on him.
There are a few players that haven't posted enough for my liking, like Hassybaby, Artanis, Zealos, Adam. So please do.
*sigh* I'm doing the same fucking thing I was doing on Aperture amn't I? >_>
Well, we have less time this time around, so I need contributions from more players if I want to see which other player I'd want to lynch other than Janaan/Tunkeg/Toad
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I think it would be obvious that I want the "vets" (Blazinghand, wherebugsgo, VisceraEyes, Jackal) to post their thoughts on Janaan, Toad, and which other players are suspicious to them as well.
Actually, I find it pretty bad how none of them took an active spot in this town or are trying to lead it.
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On April 09 2012 11:56 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 10:23 Janaan wrote:On April 09 2012 06:54 gonzaw wrote:On April 08 2012 09:51 Janaan wrote:
1.I see we started early. Excellent. This will be my first non-newbie mini game, so bear with me while I get a handle on reading and analyzing a much bigger thread with 3 times the players.
2.Only things that have really stood out to me so far: I like VE's initiative to get rid of lurking in a proactive way. My town games have pretty much been ruined by just a couple people lurking, and I imagine with more people playing, that problem could potentially be even worse.
3.Sl0osh, I know you're a pretty smart guy, I find it interesting that you didn't understand the Stealthy mechanic, at least well enough to have a basic understanding of it. The first thing that came to my mind when you asked for clarification? You could need more information because you ARE stealthy. I've got my eye on you.
4.Other than that, so far it seems to be mostly people posting fluffy first hour of Day 1 statements as people often do.
God Save the Queen! I found this post pretty bad 1.I don't like this tone. He tries to undermine his own play right here, saying "bear with me while I get a handle...". 2.Why say this about VE? You "like" him because he wants to get rid of lurking in a proactive way? Are you kidding me? You are telling me you never played a game where people discussed lynching and killing lurkers? It's more fluff to make it appear he's contributing. 3.Notice the words he uses. "I find it interesting that you didn't understand the Stealthy mechanic"; "I've got my eye on you". First of all, he finds that behaviour from sloosh suspicious, which is totally bullshit since no sane scum with the Stealthy trait will directly talk about it in the thread instead of PMing the mods in the first place. Second, he doesn't even seem to directly confront sloosh. He says "I find it interesting", seems too wishy washy to be an actual accusation. Again, seems like a classic scumtell of accusing someone without directly confronting them, hoping someone else will read it and confront sloosh about it; or to put some doubt in sloosh so he can come back to said suspicious later, while nobody notices said suspicion right now. 4. Again, more fluff. What motivation does he have to post this? Just more fluff (which is just a "retelling" of what's happening in the thread, it serves no purpose) to make his post look bigger. Each individual thing from your post isn't enough to make one think you are scum, but the fact that you made all of them in a single post looks very bad. I'd say you are scum, specially since you've posted almost nothing at all since, yet your post seemed to imply you were eager to participate and kind of "enthusiastic" about the game, which you clearly aren't. That isn't too damning though, maybe it's the time-zone or something, but whenever I find lack of participation when one was eager to do so before suspicious I'm generally right. ##Vote: Janaan Let me walk through my train of thought when I posted this. Before I do, though, I want to address your last comment first. I haven't been posting because my internet was out at my apartment last night. I left for a few hours after making this post, and when I got back, I couldn't connect. I know this could be considered a cop out answer, but it's 100% true. Today, with Easter I got home from church later than usual, then I took a nap for a couple hours. I did briefly read the thread before taking the nap, but I didn't want to clutter the thread with what would have ended up being a totally useless post by any standard. Which brings us to now. 1. I know most people in this game haven't played with me before, and unless they pay attention to the newbie games, they haven't even heard my name before. I just wanted to give a quick overview of my experience (or lack thereof) without taking too much time. It may not have been necessary, but I felt that I should include it somewhere. 2. At this point in the game, not a whole lot had happened. From my point of view, the only post that I felt really had much content was VEs, so I gave my opinion on what he said. Sure, I've been in games where people discussed lurker lynching. Does that mean that we shouldn't ever discuss it again? No one else had really said much about it, and I thought it was good that VE was taking a proactive approach to getting rid of lurkers, so I said so. 3. You're basing this point off the specific words I chose to use? Really? These are pretty common words for me, honestly. It's just how I talk. Again, I was posting my first reaction of Sl0osh's post. It may not be the most insightful comment on what he said, but that's what I thought. I didn't intend on really accusing him, I was curious if/what he would say in response, but that observation is not even close to enough to call someone scum, at least for me. "I've got my eye on you" is just me saying I'll be paying close attention to Sl0osh's posts and nothing more. 4. Sure, it's fluff. If it was just to make my post look bigger as you say, though, it would be more than one line. As it is, it doesn't make anything look bigger. But sure, it was probably unnecessary. There's no excuse for you to make such a post. As in, there's nothing you can say that can make me think your post was more "townie". It is obvious you would defend yourself like you did just now, whether you are town or scum. 3.The point is that you paint sloosh suspicious but don't directly accuse him, and those words happen to reflect that. Anyways, so you don't have any thoughts about anything else? I'm gonna keep my vote on you until you contribute more and convince me you are not scum. I'll most likely keep my vote on you. The only other player I could see changing my vote to at this point would be Toad or Tunkeg; but I think you are more likely to flip scum. Again, if someone didn't comment on Janaan by now, please do. I want your opinion on Janaan and that post of his, and I want you to know if you'd want to kill him or not. About Risen:I don't want him lynched right now. Yes, he's being stubborn and possibly stupid; but I know he did something similar (i.e stubborn and stupid) on Game of Thrones Mafia, so it's not unlike him to act like this. He was one of the first players to start discussion. He instantly accused johnny and ET, and posted very early. He was aggressive at a time where scum don't need to be aggressive. He moved discussion forwards, whether his case and accusations were stupid or not. If he was scum he would have been content leaving every townie to fend for themselves in the first few hours only discussing Policy lynches, etc (I know I would have if I was scum). I don't know what Caller did on JubJub, but Caller is a more experienced player that knows what to do as scum, and knows the consequences it can get. I doubt you could say that Risen planned making a "joke" case on ET on the first hour of the game to create "chaos" or something. It could be though, everything is possible, but there are far better candidates for a Day 1 lynch.
Grack is an interesting find though, his posts didn't strike me as odd (and like VE mentioned his first post was pretty good and had quite a lot of content), but I'm waiting for his thoughts on Toad/Janaan/etc as well. @Sloosh: I'm waiting for your response and contributions as well, if not I wouldn't mind you getting lynched either. @Jitsu: Dude, Janaan has 2-3 posts what the hell are you talking about "I don't have time to look at his filter" or something?Anyways, please do, I'll wait for your thoughts on him. There are a few players that haven't posted enough for my liking, like Hassybaby, Artanis, Zealos, Adam. So please do. *sigh* I'm doing the same fucking thing I was doing on Aperture amn't I? >_> Well, we have less time this time around, so I need contributions from more players if I want to see which other player I'd want to lynch other than Janaan/Tunkeg/Toad
I didn't say I didn't have time. I said I was going to probably wait until tomorrow when people actually have a filter to look through.
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Well thanks for quoting the entire post just to say that.
Yes, I know you didn't specifically say that, but that's what I thought you implied. I just wanted quick thoughts on Janaan, which would be pretty fast to do, since you just read his latest posts, and you only needed to read the one I pointed out initially.
@Toad: I still think you are suspicious (checked Storm, and again I don't find any similarities with your play here, at least not in the things I'm refering to), but don't think you can just do nothing now that I'm not responding back to you.
I want you to post your thoughts on Janaan, and other players other than Risen+wbg. For instance, what do you think about Jitsu? Or what about VE and BH?
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United States359 Posts
On April 09 2012 11:56 gonzaw wrote:
Again, if someone didn't comment on Janaan by now, please do. I want your opinion on Janaan and that post of his, and I want you to know if you'd want to kill him or not.
Your break down of Janaan's post pretty much consisted of the fact that it didnt have hard content, had too much fluff, and his suspicion of Sl0osh was indirect and weak. And then you said he defended himself... as he would... regardless...
I think most day 1 analysis posts are a bit forced to try and stimulate discussion. That's fine, but I don't think that you have sufficient evidence based on his 2 posts to convince me he is scum.
I tried to look back at the past few 30player games to see the results of day1 lynch. Of the few I looked at, the majority were vanilla townies, followed by special's (1 miller and 1 DT i think), and only like 1 scum. It seems to me like the town sucks at scumhunting off day 1 content.
For that reason, I'm leaving my vote on 4face. I'd rather kill something annoying than someone who is not annoying and probable town anyways.
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RE: gonzaw
I am suspicious of gonzaw. In gonzaw's posting he is commenting on a LOT of the thread happenings, but he is just sort of giving summaries of them, such as here. You mention several topics but don't say if you think person X or Y is scummy or not, just that "ho hum I wonder what is going on". This reminds me a lot of your scum play, where you look very active but you don't post nearly as many decisive stances. Compare Sum of All Fears(scum) and Aperture(town), to see what I'm talking about.
I also really don't like his case on Janaan. You're using PBPA in a way that doesn't seem genuine:
Each individual thing from your post isn't enough to make one think you are scum, but the fact that you made all of them in a single post looks very bad. I'd say you are scum, specially since you've posted almost nothing at all since, yet your post seemed to imply you were eager to participate and kind of "enthusiastic" about the game, which you clearly aren't.
That isn't too damning though, maybe it's the time-zone or something, but whenever I find lack of participation when one was eager to do so before suspicious I'm generally right.
You admit that the parts alone don't constitute scummy enough, but you think that "together it is enough"; I don't really buy that. That reminds me of myself in Sum of All Fears Mafia, when I posted my "read" on Sinensis, saying that "these things together add up to scummy", which sounds like you're trying to justify something to yourself rather than actually believing it. Instead of saying X, Y, and Z make person scummy which would be a more genuine way of saying it, you say X, Y, and Z isn't individually enough to make you scummy, but somehow X+Y+Z does, even though you are ONLY basing this off of one post.
I also find it strange that you write "I'm generally right" about such and such, when you've played like 1-2 town games. It sounds like you are trying to give your read more right by saying "I'm usually right about this thing guys listen to me".
You are not currently the scummiest player to me, but you don't seem very townie at the moment; if this continues then I'm going after you.
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Yo Risen who would you kill right now?
Name some scum and give some reasons.
As for gonzaw, about what you said about vets not taking action: there's several things to consider here.
1. You don't need to post all the time to "take action." Some of the best scumhunters on this forum, e.g. Foolishness, sandroba, syllogism, Incognito, Ver, etc. don't often post that much, especially not day 1. In fact, I think they actually perform better because of it.
2. Sometimes it takes a while to discern bad play from actual scum play. I've always had a hard time doing that and right now I can honestly tell you that there must be townies in the game who are not playing well, because I think they are scummy and there cannot be a scumteam of 15 people.
3. There are probably a million real-life excuses any one of these players could come up with to explain their (in)activity that would be completely alignment-irrelevant. I, for example, originally intended to be a replacement but I was graced with a role PM by GM on game start.
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RE: FourFace
I disagree that FF is being actively disruptive. His posting is relatively unclear, but people just saying "I don't get the FourFace/Nefron thing FF is being anti-town" shows that people haven't even tried to understand his posting. It's clear that when he posts a "Nefron", he is pointing out the views of people in an ironic fashion, saying how he thinks this or that is stupid. Examples: myselfS.T. S.T. again Mementoss/S.T. againagain
This reminds me sort of when people called Foolishness "anti-town" for his limericks. They would only be specifically anti-town if one cannot understand what the person is saying, but it's pretty clear that FF wants S.T. dead for the reasons that I linked, and the rest of his time has been wasted defending himself from people. There's nothing specifically scummy about posting the way he has, and in voting/putting a stance up, he has done a lot more than many people in this game.
FourFace should not be today's lynch.
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Are you kidding me ET?
On April 09 2012 12:34 EchelonTee wrote:RE: gonzawI am suspicious of gonzaw. In gonzaw's posting he is commenting on a LOT of the thread happenings, but he is just sort of giving summaries of them, such as here. You mention several topics but don't say if you think person X or Y is scummy or not, just that "ho hum I wonder what is going on". This reminds me a lot of your scum play, where you look very active but you don't post nearly as many decisive stances. Compare Sum of All Fears(scum) and Aperture(town), to see what I'm talking about.
I wouldn't be against killing him if he doesn't step up his game like I know he can do.
I don't think he's scum
I don't find him scummy
so far he hasn't done anything scummy
it actually makes me think both are town because of that
I wouldn't be against lynching Toad though
I think Risen and ET are town for other reasons too
So try to actually read the posts you reference and pay attention, don't make me take back that last statement.
You admit that the parts alone don't constitute scummy enough, but you think that "together it is enough"; I don't really buy that. That reminds me of myself in Sum of All Fears Mafia, when I posted my "read" on Sinensis, saying that "these things together add up to scummy", which sounds like you're trying to justify something to yourself rather than actually believing it. Instead of saying X, Y, and Z make person scummy which would be a more genuine way of saying it, you say X, Y, and Z isn't individually enough to make you scummy, but somehow X+Y+Z does, even though you are ONLY basing this off of one post.
Yes, a player saying "Hi guys, I'm new so bare with me here" alone doesn't make him scum.
I've seen countless of 1st posts like that, hell even sloosh made one like that I think.
And yes, a player pointing out sloosh's question about ninjas in a wishy washy manner alone doesn't make someone scum.
But someone doing all of the above (and what I mentioned earlier) in the same post does.
Why don't you tell me what you actually think about Janaan's 1st post, and his "case" against Jitsu then?
You didn't mention anything about Janaan's play yet you still said my case was "bad" and "not geniune".
Also no, I did almost exactly the same thing with my RayzorFlash vote on Aperture, so if you really want to "compare" my play between games check it out.
I also find it strange that you write "I'm generally right" about such and such, when you've played like 1-2 town games. It sounds like you are trying to give your read more right by saying "I'm usually right about this thing guys listen to me".
I said/thought the same thing about Paperscraps in Aperture, and in the end I was right (even though I chose not to push him more).
I found something similar in his post.
I guess if he tells the truth about his internet connection going down then that's irrelevant though.
You are not currently the scummiest player to me, but you don't seem very townie at the moment; if this continues then I'm going after you.
So who is currently the "scummiest player to you"?
What do you think about Toad, and what about other "laying low" players like johnny, sloosh, grack, etc?
On April 09 2012 12:41 wherebugsgo wrote:
1. You don't need to post all the time to "take action." Some of the best scumhunters on this forum, e.g. Foolishness, sandroba, syllogism, Incognito, Ver, etc. don't often post that much, especially not day 1. In fact, I think they actually perform better because of it.
You, BH and VE aren't Foolishness, sandroba, syllogism, Incognito and Ver aren't you?
The 3 of you, or at least BH+VE always try to drive discussion, or be part of it when you guys are town. At least when I look at games you guys played a little while ago. You are not the kind of player (like Incognito for instance) that just lurks for a while and then makes a gigantic post with 3-4 cases.
So if you guys see that there's not much going on, I'd expect you guys (or at least VE) to come in and do your thing.
3. There are probably a million real-life excuses any one of these players could come up with to explain their (in)activity that would be completely alignment-irrelevant. I, for example, originally intended to be a replacement but I was graced with a role PM by GM on game start.
It's not about inactivity alone; it's also about what they (and you) do when you are in fact active.
When BH was active he just pointed fingers at 4Face and ST and then drove off. Right, maybe he is in fact inactive for any reason and didn't have time to do anything else, but with that "excitement" of his (with him creating a monologue, etc) I'd expect him to be more active than that.
But VE had plenty of time, and proved so by actually being active at times, but didn't try to drive discussion like I would expect him to do, and like he did in previous games, specially now that nobody else is driving the discussion and he has the chance to do so.
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On April 09 2012 12:46 EchelonTee wrote:RE: FourFaceI disagree that FF is being actively disruptive. His posting is relatively unclear, but people just saying "I don't get the FourFace/Nefron thing FF is being anti-town" shows that people haven't even tried to understand his posting. It's clear that when he posts a "Nefron", he is pointing out the views of people in an ironic fashion, saying how he thinks this or that is stupid. Examples: myselfS.T. S.T. again Mementoss/S.T. againagainThis reminds me sort of when people called Foolishness "anti-town" for his limericks. They would only be specifically anti-town if one cannot understand what the person is saying, but it's pretty clear that FF wants S.T. dead for the reasons that I linked, and the rest of his time has been wasted defending himself from people. There's nothing specifically scummy about posting the way he has, and in voting/putting a stance up, he has done a lot more than many people in this game. FourFace should not be today's lynch.
I disagree. In a game this large, it is especially important to post clearly and concisely. Otherwise, you risk making the thread a pain to read, leading players to skim instead of reading in detail, and weakening the town's efforts to scumhunt behaviorally across multiple days.
We gain nothing of substance from his posting style, beyond the time taken by other players to discourage it, and the potential costs are huge. Why are you defending such a play style, anyways? If we shouldn't lynch him, who would you prefer?
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Midnight, do you still think 4face is scum?
You do know that 4Face is known for doing wacky crazy shit, right? You think he planned doing this on purpose as scum?
You say we gain nothing from his posting style, and it may be true, but that doesn't make him scum, ergo it doesn't make him a lynch candidate, which you still think he should be.
MG, what do you think about the other things that have happened? What do you think about VE+BH+wgb, and what about Janaan and Toad, etc?
On April 09 2012 07:59 michaelthe wrote:
/\ /\ lawl, ninja'd the same minute by a post asking you to contribute.
Tunkeg- your list really is crap. It's not actual hard analysis, you subjectively add values as to what to value. I tried to point that out when I jokingly noted I was in the top 9 with only 1 game as a win as scum in a noob game. You SUBJECTIVELY decided to not take a lot of things into account, how to score certain things, etc.
Perhaps more importantly, if the goal is to scum hunt on day 1, your list will never actually indicate alignment, as someone on this page pointed out.
lynch target:
I honestly think that most day 1 tells are crap- maybe I should check some of the previous games similar to this and see if that holds true or not.
Are people saying they just bracket out fourface since he intentionally posts confusingly? Is this par for the course? Why wouldnt we day 1 lynch him, unless we can reasonably expect to hit a scum on day 1, which I doubt.
What?
Why wouldn't you try and lynch scum on D1?
Look, whether this is D1 or D7 the scum are the same people, and are bound to act the same way; so if you put enough effort you can catch them on D7 or on D1.
It seems to me you don't even think 4face is scum (you just don't like him), but you still want to lynch him?
Instead of focusing 100% of your efforts in discrediting 4face and trying to get him lynched, you could put that effort in scumhunting, giving your thoughts on people and trying to contribute more to a good atmosphere.
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RE: Gonzaw
the post I referred is below:
On April 09 2012 06:58 gonzaw wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
Regarding other lynch "candidates":
FourFace:
I still don't get what he's trying to do; but I don't see how his actions make him scum. He acted like this in previous games; I'd prefer if he's ignored, or at least the discussion is not about him. Saying he's "creating chaos" is only right if people start arguing about/with him and let the thread be clogged up with pointless "Oh 4face is anti-town oh oh" stuff.
Tunkeg:
His "win/loss ratio" list didn't do any good; but it's not an alignment tell.
I find his tone and posting style weird, like saying things like "Phone home, goddammed alien" and shit. That's certainly NOT the way he played when we played together; and apart from discussing his list/random lynch, and discrediting BH I haven't seen him contribute that much.
I don't know what to think about his behaviour (seems trollish, but again that doesn't determine his alignment); but I wouldn't be against killing him if he doesn't step up his game like I know he can do.
Wherebugsgo:
I dunno why, but I don't think he's scum because I think he would play better if he was scum; and I know some people think he plays "bad" as town.
Apart from some trolling of him, I don't find him scummy, and wouldn't want him lynched today.
Sputnik:
He's very aggressive, and so far he hasn't done anything scummy IMO.
Waiting for more contributions from him.
About Risen vs ET and other stuff:
The Risen vs ET thing has been fully covered I think.
2 players clogging the thread and going against each other because of some petty stuff. Nothing suspicious here, it actually makes me think both are town because of that.
I think Risen and ET are town for other reasons too (small ones actually), but if it doesn't help mentioning them I won't.
Although it was stupid for Risen to do so, but I can see where he's coming from (making "playful" posts, full of smileys, etc); but his execution was very bad.
I would like leaving him alone for now.
If you have any questions to me ask away. I chose not to comment on ALL interactions this game or ask questions to everybody since that didn't do very good last time I did it.
@sloosh: I'd like more contributions from you, you say that we shouldn't spend time arguing about the spreadshit, but you don't do anything yourself.
I wouldn't be against lynching Toad though; will post more about him after people comment on Janaan.
Perhaps I mis-worded some of my initial post: while you LITERALLY state "I think X or Y are scummy/not scummy", you don't substantiate these claims much, or sound decisive in doing so. What you are doing is equivalent to posting a list, but with more sentences. I can summarize your post as such:
FourFace: I don't find him scummy because he acts like this in other games.
You don't address WHY people find him scummy, you just state that he's acted like this in previous games, which has no bearing because he hasn't rolled scum in any finished game.
Tunkeg: I find him scummy because his "posting style is weird", and he "isn't acting how I remember him".
You don't say what about his posting style is scummy, and you don't say how he is acting differently from his town games.
WBG: I don't find him scummy because he usually plays better.
You don't explain why this makes WBG scummy or non-scummy. In fact this point just doesn't make sense.
S.T.: I don't find him scummy because [no reason given]
You don't explain anything.
If you had instead posted
"I think FourFace, S.T. and WBG aren't scummy because I feel like it, and I think Tunkeg is scummy because he feels funny"
your post would have the same amount of content as it currently does. You aren't taking decisive stances, is my point; you aren't pushing your main lynch candidates very hard at all (Janaan/Toad), meanwhile you comment on many situations in a way that makes you look active, but you really aren't saying much.
I won't discuss my opinion of Janaan and others with you because I do not trust you, and I don't give out reads if it is not necessary for me to do so. Since I am not currently voting him, it should be obvious that I don't find him currently scummy enough to lynch.
I could care less whether or not you call me town, and you shouldn't be so taken aback that I'm suspicious of you; I am paying plenty of attention to the game, and I'm calling it as I see it. If you are town then it should show better as the game goes on. The infuriating thing about you is that it is quite hard to read you as town or scum, so if I have even an inkling that I think you're scum I am going to state it. I am in the process of making a post about who I find scummy and who I want to lynch, so I would appreciate it if you don't shower me with condescending questions.
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My thoughts about Fourface are that, yeah, his posting style isn't all that helpful, but I don't think he's scum. He set out to play a specific way, and stated it before the game even started, and has for the most part kept to that. If we do decide that he should be lynched, it would have to be to get rid of an annoying player, not to lynch scum, which is something I'm not prepared to do.
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Tunkeg, I asked you for your reads on those two players and you responded:
On April 09 2012 00:20 Tunkeg wrote:
My thoughts are that Risen made a joke about the smiley being suspect. ET overreacted, and then Risen overreacted again by voting for him. To me their brawl can be anything and nothing. It could be two bored townies going at it, one edgy scum overacting, or two scum "pretending" to fight to cause distance between eachother. I can't get nothing from the arguement, and get no reads from it. I just ignore that fight for now.
This is just blatantly non-committal, you run through every possibility and then finish on a 'null' read on both.
On April 09 2012 07:44 Tunkeg wrote:
Toad isn't as spammy as last time I played with him AC. Does this make him scum, I don't know. I don't see what some players see in him. I see him as pretty much null. Like almost every other player in this game thus far.
Your case on Janaan. Well I think it is forced, and somewhat premature. Reading that much from one post. I put it in the same category as BH's posts. Are you wrong for doing it? Who am I to judge. Maybe your pressure will create results from Janaan, maybe not. Still I like your case on Janaan better then BH's pressure on ST. He just kept pounding on him, not giving him a chance to explain himself.
Again, you are non-committal and you compare Gonzaw's case on Janaan to Blazinghands case on Fourface/ST, someone who you have named as scum. Do you think Gonzaw is scum?
BH was hardly 'pounding' on ST, he's made two posts totalling three lines aimed at him. Why is it scummy to push cases on the newer players when by the balance of probability, some of them will be scum.
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I think that FourFace is scum. This decision is not dependent on his previous behavior, only on his posting in this game so far. If that doesn't make him a lynch candidate, what would? If I can't judge his alignment based on his actions in-game, then how am I supposed to do so?
I don't fault VE, BH, and WBG for being less active than you think they should be. I don't think that it's fair to hold others to your personal schedule or expectations of activity, as long as you play constructively and responsibly. Looking over their filters, I'm not getting a scummy feeling from any of them. WBG explained his earlier erratic behavior, and his more recent posts are good, which is all I asked of him earlier.
Janaan is also suspicious to me for posting fluffily and accusing Jitsu without conviction or a vote, but he's not my top priority, because he's easy to read, and if he continues posting minimal/inaccurate analysis even as we get access to more information, then it will be easier to pin him as scum.
I don't have a good read on Toad yet. He has a lot of content in his filter, but much of it is discussion what is and isn't good town play, which doesn't belong here but isn't the worst. I haven't read his other games, and I don't like playing by meta in any case, so I won't comment on that. I would certainly like to see him put down a vote, however.
@Toad, do you think that WBG has explained himself to your satisfaction, or do you still think that he's the most suspicious player here? Given that Kenpachi still has yet to contribute, would you vote for him?
@michaelthe, in the course of looking at Day 1 lynches in previous games, did you find any helpful trends that might better identify scum here and now, or did you just want to discourage us from actually lynching scum? That seems like a lot of effort for not very much of a result.
@Tunkeg, who do you actually think is scum, based on behavior in thread and not your win/loss statistics? Your last post indicated that you still have yet to get a good scum read, but how about now?
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EBWOP:
That last post should have begun with "@gonzaw".
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At ET:
I don't need to make a gigantic post on people I don't think are scum if it's not necessary (for instance, I just did one on Risen because he seems to get a lot of heat and this discussion about him distracts people from the players I think are scum).
I decided to speak my thoughts on the current lynch candidates (by that point), and basically say that I wouldn't lynch any of them (with the exception of Tunkeg). It's just that, thoughts. If you think I don't sound decisive, or even if I wasn't decisive you think that makes me scummy, well good for you; I'm just trying to be as transparent as possible without giving unnecessary information.
If you really want me to make a heavy subtanced opinion on those players then I will, but it's not necessary.
I won't discuss my opinion of Janaan and others with you because I do not trust you
Right, because even if I was scum I would be the only one that would read it /sarcasm
Yes, I, and hopefully the rest of town, want your opinion on Janaan to get more info about you and your alignment, and to see everybody's stance on Janaan to determine if he could get lynched, and if his lynch would get support or resistance.
Why would you even post something like that?
Anyways I don't really think you are scum right now so I will just ignore this.
If you have any question to me then I'll be glad to answer, but in the meantime I hope you start contributing more as well (I'm eagerly waiting for that post of yours).
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On April 09 2012 12:41 wherebugsgo wrote:
Yo Risen who would you kill right now?
Name some scum and give some reasons.
As for gonzaw, about what you said about vets not taking action: there's several things to consider here.
1. You don't need to post all the time to "take action." Some of the best scumhunters on this forum, e.g. Foolishness, sandroba, syllogism, Incognito, Ver, etc. don't often post that much, especially not day 1. In fact, I think they actually perform better because of it.
2. Sometimes it takes a while to discern bad play from actual scum play. I've always had a hard time doing that and right now I can honestly tell you that there must be townies in the game who are not playing well, because I think they are scummy and there cannot be a scumteam of 15 people.
3. There are probably a million real-life excuses any one of these players could come up with to explain their (in)activity that would be completely alignment-irrelevant. I, for example, originally intended to be a replacement but I was graced with a role PM by GM on game start.
Ok I have to go work out right now, I promise I'm going to be analyzing people/posting my thoughts on them in a giant spoiler tomorrow morning. Thought I'd have plenty of free time but my sister guilt tripped the shit out of me and made me be a family kind of guy today.
+ Show Spoiler +I really don't like VE. I originally thought oh hey he's just trying to get a wagon started on me so he can get some analysis of anyone who agrees with him, but he's been harping it for so long now. It seems really dumb to me. I want him to be town so bad b/c I like his posting otherwise. Contrary to my earlier posting, I'm not getting any scum vibes off ET and I really like his posting thus far (past our little shit storm early on) Zephirdd seems pretty cool to me. He freaked out when I initially called out ET, but he since has shown a little faith in me. Also, I like that he's calling people out for scummy shit, like michaelthe's vote. Kenpachi is useless, but it's day 1 and I'm not expecting real contributions, just action (he isn't acting much either, but he posted some thoughts on sloosh. How he doesn't understand why sputnik is suspicious is beyond me) MG calls VE out on his bullshit meta read and he also hates the dual personality troll FourFace. Seems solid to me. Blazinghand comes out of nowhere with a post on Fourface, and while he caught flak for it because lets face it, Fourface is one of the easier targets in this game, at least he's posting. He also calls out S.T for his trash. I don't think anyone has talked as much as Tunkeg, or been as useless. I think he spent way too much time pushing his "random" vote that NO ONE ELSE THINKS IS RANDOM. He makes a meta call on Toad which is ok, leaves room to grow on later. I absolutely do not like what he did, but hey at least it got people talking. Oh and this On April 09 2012 07:38 Tunkeg wrote:
Also some more funny statistics from my list. Town is 6-14-1 (tie) in 2012 (including Game of Thrones). For the last 15!!! games town is 2-13. Why, well I'd say because players suck at reading the game (I am pretty sucky at this as well). But at least I don't just vote on anyone who have an idea that isn't to my liking. The ones voting for me now are the ones who makes town lose every game, they don't have a clue whats scummy and whats not... What the fuck kind of useless shit is this? Jackal is trying to troll me early on, but I got what I wanted out of the ET tunnel so it's no biggie. As for the rest of his posts, dude wtf is it with you and Tunkeg? Everyone knows his "random" shit is retarded, you don't need to go on and on about it, and that's almost literally all you've done. Not being useful at all, and if Tunkeg just wanted to pressure Jackal then I'd say he's doing a good job, because Jackal hasn't done anything good this game. Whoops how could I forget this! On April 09 2012 11:35 Jackal58 wrote:
Janaan is scum. Yeah... Stormtrout. You're doing great bro, keep on truckin. Lyter you always amaze me. This is his standard town play from what I've seen. He doesn't participate and he just makes sure he sin't modkilled for inactivity (which he hasn't done yet, better get on that bro). I honestly never wanted to play another game with him after GoT but I'm not a host. I'd never allow him in my games but whatever. Adam has a single post in this game, and even though he nailed my case against ET as paper thin, I think he's absolutely useless. Then again, it's easter, maybe he's busy. We'll see tomorrow. I don't like Katina's vote on Toad, but to be honest I don't blame him for it entirely. At the time I thought Toad's post was largely useless as well. He's pushing pretty hard on Toad right now, we'll see how it develops. I hate his instant town read on ET. Screams bullshit to me. Pretty scummy just because of that one thing, but I don't know if one thing makes him scum. Grackaroni is posting largely filler. Oh Tunkeg's case against Jackal is stupid? Thank heaven you told me that. I thought it was air-tight! Then he says this On April 09 2012 03:27 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 03:22 Zephirdd wrote:
Grack, do you really believe 4F is the easiest target right now? What do you think about the S.T who looks much like a noob scum(as pointed out by BH)?
4F is definitely the easiest target. He said that he will not justify his votes and that he doesn't care about the game. You can tell he is the easy target just from the last couple posts alone voting for him. It's still day1 but I think that S.T looks like a noob scum because he is a noob scum and I think that Tunkeg was trying to protect him by chainsaw attacking BH. What the... Wha... I don't even... What does that last line even mean? Artanis posts something along the lines of "Don't lynch people just because they're bad" Sweet dude. Any thoughts on anyone who's been posting? He's lurking, what can I say? I like hassybaby's posting style tbh. On the other hand, he's made one post of substance since the game started. Within that post, though, he fingers who he thinks is the best lynch target and explains his actions. Jitsu. You've called me out for saying I voted ET for his smileys, when I've made it clear since that it was an idiotic case meant to generate discussion and flush out someone looking for an easy bandwagon. How am I conforming? I'll wait for him to read through everyone's filter tomorrow since he had to go to sleep tonight apparently. Ghost has made some posts, but he's in the same boat as the lurkers. Mementoss doesn't appear scummy to me. He's got one substantive post, but it's quality. I'll wait to see more from him since he says he's keeping an eye on filters. I don't get what Toads didn't like about my post where I called out Katina. He's generating discussion, though, asking questions that aren't heavily biased, and I like that. The one thing I think is super pro-town is discussion, and he's been doing just that while generating it himself. Not a lynch target imo I haven't read through much of gonzaw's filter, but he's posting a lot and I haven't seen a case on him. I'm not voting for someone day 1 who is talking that much. I like talking. Talking is pro-town. I'll go more into depth on this in the morning when I read through filters and analyze more heavily. I hate johnnywup and I want him dead. Why? Because of this. On April 09 2012 11:07 johnnywup wrote:
I'm willing to kill Risen if it comes down to it. I Doesn't mention me a SINGLE time before this. Suddenly sees a potential train on Risen developing and drops a little line that will pave the way for him later should he decide to vote me. I hate, hate, hate him and I hope he's lynched today or shot tonight (unless he wants to come in and try to justify that?) Time for another person I dislike. Fourface. I don't care that there's a huge wagon on him right now. How can you not dislike this guy? Is he trying to protect himself by appearing as an easy lynch so therefor don't lynch him b/c scum looks for easy lynches? WIFOM or something idk, thinking about dual personality players makes my head hurt and I hate it. I don't like newbie claims. Pregame jokes aside, I don't think I'm a noop is a good defense and posting it isn't doing anything to help you look town. Just gives people a reason to doubt your analysis. I feel like he defended himself from gonzaw in an adequate manner. Don't think he's a good vote Day 1. Ohhhh zealos. I don't like how he definitively says townies are voting for ET. How do you know they're townies? Maybe they're scum. Not something huge, but it's worth noting. Also... On April 09 2012 05:40 Zealos wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 05:30 Risen wrote:
EBWOP: And it's my tunneling that started discussion of ANYTHING in the first place VE, you're full of horse manure. We've had plenty of discussion not based around the use of smiley faces in a post. You just seem to be making pointless points followed by a poor ramshackle defense. Yeah I know we have, which is probably why I said I STARTED the discussion of anything in the first place, not that it was ALL we had discussed. Reading comprehension. Don't know whether he's being intentionally thick or just misread it. I don't like sputnik. Sorry but a blend post and an outrage post at being called out for a blend post aren't working in your favor. slOosh hasn't posted anything useful. Sweet you called out Tunkeg... anything else to add? I can't tell anything with wbg, I can't tell if he voted ET just to try and flush out someone like FF or what. I like that he appears to be taking the game seriously now, though. Zelblade calls out something he shouldn't call out, and then doesn't do anything else useful with his posting. Don't like him. michaelthe has a point that most day1 reads are going to be crap, but you have to try. Otherwise why not just nolynch? (I am NOT advocating this at all)
Well fuck. I was supposed to go work out at ten, but it's looking like eleven now. Got a little wrapped up in that.
To answer the original question. Who would I kill? I would kill johnnywup. In keeping with this.
##unvote EchelonTee
##vote johnnywup
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EBWOP: I am leaving now. I don't know if I'll be awake enough when I get back, probably just shower and sleep. As always, discussion is pro-town. Don't agree with me? Post why. Agree with me? Still post why. Hope I've answered some questions with that post, feel free to ask more if I missed something.
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EPT
