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I will comment your read soon Mav.
To my last post I just want to say that I completely forgot the option that trackdoor himself could be scum. I was pretty sucked in by his theory. Now I have to revise my reads.
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You still leave a 0.01% chance that YOU could be scum.
Boom. That is what it is. I think this is the only way it can happen... Allow me to explain-
Willz- was targetting VERY early on by Gunman at a time when ANYONE could of been voted out. This would not of happened if Gunman and Willz were together...
Gunman NEVER accused any of the likely scum that I posted above. In fact he was supportive of Dim, and NEVER brought up Sufficiency despite claiming that he wanted to lynch lurkers, and sufficiency is the BIGGEST lurker of them all...
I honestly don't see where willz pointed anything out about gunman. He followed the gunman train with this post:
On March 09 2012 09:09 willz22912 wrote:
In the interest of still trying to win as town, if I drop my vote on DimmuKlok because no one will go along with it, should I be voting gunman and hoping for the best?
If you ctrl+f his filter you see him exactly three times saying gunman and almost none of them says anything against gunman. Just sayin
Whereas I like willz case on Dimmu.
Dim- This one kind of breaks my heart because for a long time I really thought Dim was town.. but allow me to explain. Dim targetted Trackd00r at the end of this rant. That means that him and Trackd00r can not be mafia. Dim also votes randomly for Beorn for being a lurker... The only other person who voted for Beorn was... Sufficiency!! (Starting to see the connection?) He defends sufficiency- and NEVER accusses him.. Dim and Sufficiency have a connection.
He has been on my watchlist since early. Yes, Dimmu targeted trackdoor after that one made accusations against Suff. But rightly so, I have done this too because trackdoors accusations were really weird.
And you are right that he defends Suff. But this will only make much sense if Suff is confirmed scum. We still don't know yet, altough Suff is on the top of the priority list. And I really like (read: don't like) the case Dimmu and Suff made against my predecessor, only because he was a lurker.
And last, please notice the incredible amount of fluff in his posts.
Sufficiency- Just a lurker. The case against him in the things he says are weak.. its how others interact with him that is important.. though I suppose lurking is kind of evidence in itself...
Originally I thought he was a bad townie, now I think he is just bad scum. And he said he has lost interest in the game. Don't know how to interpret this.  He isn't very useful and is hindering even if he were town.
Trackd00r- He had his freak out at the end which kind of paints him poorly.. HOWEVER- consider the lengthy post that he made before he freaked out that outlines a lot of reasons to target Gunman... I find this behavior suspicious.. but I don't think he was trying to change the vote.. but rather felt strongly that sufficiency was mafia (which I think he is correct in)
Ha, I like his case on me and Dimmu. It's real detective work. Or he could be scum, trying to convice some innocent townies to change their vote to Suff, then make his scum comrades change the vote in the last second and so avoiding a lynch on gun. But seeing the amount he put into his theory, I see this as unlikely. Still possible, but unlikely.
Blubb- Based off my above statement, If Blubb was mafia, and trackd00r was mafia, he would not of jumped on Trackd00r that much.... Leaning towards Dim, which means they are probably not the 'same' despite both being suspicious of Trackd00r....Targets sufficiency... Likely not with Sufficiency and Dim because they both voted against him (in a former life when he was Beorn)..
Fully agree.
tldr, I am against Suff and Dimmu.
And I almost forgot:
My read on Mav:
Mav's stance on gunman:
Finds him wishy washy, but gets more and more convinced that gunman could be scum. Even puts the scum read on gunman higher than his suspicions against Dimmu.
What can I say more, I still say that Mav is the towniest of us all. But that doesn't mean that we should let us convince us from him to much.
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I haven't gotten a chance to look over what we learned from gunmans lynch. All I've done so far is read the newest posts. Trackd00r, I understand your post, and was pretty much what I was expecting. That move at the end could only have been 2 things, what you explained, or you were mafia and you tried to get everyone's vote off of your teammate last second and win the game.
Given that you initially brought up Gunman, I figured it was what you said. That's why I didn't FoS you or vote. I was only pointing out that if you thought that saying sorry was the only explanation that was needed for those actions, you were wrong.
The problem with your plan is that it almost costed us the game. Even with nearly 15mins left in voting, you were still trying to get everyone to change their vote, and it wasn't until there was 1 min left in the voting that you said you were going to go back to Gunman. This is what was the most suspicous to me, and was why I initially called you out.
About your speculation at the end, you forgot the possibility that we are both town. Did you just forget that it's possible you tried to pull that shit with 2 towns in the thread? If that were the case, it would have gone down how it did. You try to purpose your idea, and we shoot it down because it's a terrible idea.
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Please vote for me if you think I'm mafia. If you're all willing to throw the game away on such a stupid idea, then I'm not going to put in the effort to help this town.
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Thanks for the post Dim.
I really want to hear what sufficiency has to say on all this!! For a guy that posts everyday on other forums, he rarely posts in this thread... Also- if we have a DT, I'd say DON'T investigate Dim... he is likely the godfather if he is mafia... he would of been the only mafia that is outspoken.....
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I'll throw in my opinions on everyone as well in case I get killed off this Night phase as well:
Myself: I made a poor case of defending OtoshimonoU, I overly accused DimmuKlok, and I haven't contributed to this thread much targetting any other player. My vote on gunman was bandwagoning 100%, I wanted to push DimmuKlok but could not convince the majority, and I did not disagree with the read on gunman and I didn't want to waste my vote. Objectively, I can say that this is suspicious behavior and warrants more scrutiny, I can only hope that you can see that it's more poor town play than Mafia behavior, but I freely state that I should be a valid suspect for a Day4 lynch.
Sufficiency: Probably mafia. You can see through this posts that he hasn't put that much effort. He says that playing Mafia is too time consuming, and personally I agree with that, but there is no other read to make other than either really poor town play or scum, but we can't afford a mis-lynch, so this gets tricky.
DimmuKlok: Possible suspect. I made a case against him earlier using his interaction with Sufficiency as one of my key points. I honestly don't know about him now. If he was Mafia, he definitely bus'd gunman so that we would just finish ourselves off with a mis-lynch. However, he could just be town and I misread him, I really can't say and as stated, we can't afford a mis-lynch so we have to be really sure.
Maverick23: Probably town. One of the more active posters, but a lot of his posts reading through filter were pretty useless. He was also one of the ones who tunneled really hard on OtoshimonoU, so I was initially very concerned and kept him in mind as a possible suspect. Still, looking through his behavior throughout the game, the only thing I can really accuse him of using his own words is being a too "bloodthirsty" townie. He made several good points on other people like besides OtoshimonoU that I do agree wit
trackd00r: Neutral, possible suspect. The stunt you pulled last minute was pretty annoying to me to be honest. I was trying to keep track of the thread's activity in between doing schoolwork, and was lurking the thread for a good couple of hours to keep up to date on any shenanagins. Then I wasn't on the computer close to the deadline and you made your switch case. This really set off my suspicions, but if you say it was a bait tactic, I'll have to take your word for it.
I feel like your analysis of Mafia's possible options to be pretty spot on, but I think you're discounting the fact that vote was a mis-lynch = town lose situation. In that case, I think gunman was not worth saving if he was such a strong suspect for everyone, and a radical vote change to save him would be too obvious for his teammates . All Mafia need to do at this point is lie low and drive us to a mis-lynch. So your proposal was neat, but it was highly doubtful they were going to take the bait... but if you were Mafia it would give you the opportunity to show town goodwill while still bussing gunman103, so now you're a suspect to me, or I just read everything in a too suspicious doublethink measure (been reading 1984 for class ;p)
blubbdavid: Probably town. Defended me along with Sbrubbles against DimmuKlok's case. Don't know what else to make about that behavior when he could have easily supported DimmuKlok and made me a possible lynch candidate for Day3. He also threw valid holes in my counter-case against DimmuKlok, so he isn't a blind bandwagoner, even though he did end up "liking my case" a lot. I can't read this as anything besides town behavior towards me and in general.
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I'm assuming Sufficiency is one of the mafia that we have left. I'm less confident with going with someone else at the time.
Maverick, why do you suspect me of being mafia?
On March 10 2012 01:58 Maverick32x wrote:
Dim- This one kind of breaks my heart because for a long time I really thought Dim was town.. but allow me to explain. Dim targetted Trackd00r at the end of this rant. That means that him and Trackd00r can not be mafia. Dim also votes randomly for Beorn for being a lurker... The only other person who voted for Beorn was... Sufficiency!! (Starting to see the connection?) He defends sufficiency- and NEVER accusses him.. Dim and Sufficiency have a connection.
Read it, and dismantled it. Multiple times might I add when it comes to the whole beorn thing. You say I defended Sufficiency, but that's not true at all. I've done nothing but try to get information out of that guy, but it's completely useless since he's given up on the game. You people keep trying to make a connection to me and Sufficiency and I'm taking note of it.
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Sure, I'll break down all my reasoning.
On March 02 2012 19:25 DimmuKlok wrote:
My thoughts regarding Mementoss and Pablols, I think we have a case of 2 townies accusing each other. Yes Mementoss did misquote Pablols but his posts thus far have given me a town vibe, and a misquote is no reason to lynch someone. Pablols doesn't really have a solid case on him since Mementoss's case was addressed by Pablols, and in my opinion truth except for accusation of Mementoss.
Normally I wouldn't be posting who I think is town, but I don't want to see the discussion of who to lynch on these two, since I think it's a waste of time at the moment.
It's past 4 in the morning here so I'm going to wait to post who I think we should lynch for in the morning. What I do want to post now is who is slipping underneath the radar... Rainmaker has posted twice so far. In his last post he said he had to head to class and that he would post his later on, which he never did. Beorn has only had one post thus far in which he agrees with the general consensus on random lynches.
Early on you pick out two people.. 1 of which is confirmed town, the other though lost interest in the game, his replacement I'm thinking is also town.
On March 02 2012 20:36 DimmuKlok wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 20:18 Sufficiency wrote:On March 02 2012 17:59 DimmuKlok wrote:
Sufficiency, while you're here could you explain to me in more detail why you chose OtoshimonoU and gunman103? gutty feelings. Fair enough... I was hoping it was something a little more elaborate, but ok. 
Despite this complete dodge/slap in the face. You seem okay with taking this as answer.
On March 03 2012 03:24 DimmuKlok wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 03:09 Sufficiency wrote:
If I have to choose from the three I listed above, however, I'd probably just lynch beorn. It feels to me that his inactivity is either because he is really scum, or his lack of power (i.e. he is probably vanilla). I really don't think he is a PR of any sort. It feels like a safe lynch to me.
In my opinion, day1 lynch is very difficult to conduct. Without any "hard" evidence (from kills, etc.) and only through talking, any mafia can be just as pro-town as anyone else. I agree. Lets lynch beorn. He has yet to contribute and say who he feels is a good lynch candidate for today.
Targeting the lurker, seems safe... however what about sufficiency?!
On March 03 2012 03:55 DimmuKlok wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 03:33 Rainmaker5 wrote:Ok I'm going to draft up a list and announce my vote real quick. this formatiting will be a bit wonky but I don't have time to really make shit pretty right now. going to link post #s so I don't have to explain where I'm getting information Trapdoor http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=13742776This is just a good post that I feel I can stand behind. Against a no-lynch and wants people to talk. Standard behavior for a good town player. Dimmuclock http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=13743011same shit, for a lynch wants people to discuss. Otoshi~~~ http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=13743011Here's pretty suspcious to me, starts out against a lynch at all, when people say they're for it switches to random lynch. Seems pretty scummy. Up to this point I don't think people had mentioned a random lynch. Gunman Don't really have a read on him b/c he doesn't really seem sure of his own opinion would like to hear more from him but I can't really say that FoSing currently Tiy and fried are on the lynch train- seems good Mav is seems pretty opposed to a random lynch, not to much to say after that Pablos http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=13750765going out of his way to fly off the handle when someone is suspicious, is well suspicious. Also he seems to be supporting random lynch? I'm not really sure Beorn doesn't really seem to have an opinion- no read So I don't really like Pablos's style, but he cleaned up towards the end. Mav and Memtoss are off my radar currenly because even if they're scum they're encouraging posts and moving forward that's going to hurt them. Suff is kinda sketchy- takes attention away from his rampant fingering by putting it on people who didn't react. But I really feel the guy who's generating the most noise is definitely OtoshimonoU. He feels really scummy and even if he's jsut playing poorly is the type of guy that real scum can use to keep deflecting attention. Which I guess is something you can suspect me of doing lol Anyway that's my vote and my analysis. Wish me luck on my Midterm! The only useful thing about this post is your opinion on OtoshimonoU. There is no point in bringing up the names of people that are not on our current suspect list and then not even accuse them of anything. That kind of information is just taking up space. You haven't posted much up until now and that post is looking pretty suspicious to me... ##FoS: Rainmaker5
Again, confirmed townie.
On March 03 2012 05:06 DimmuKlok wrote:
Beorn, we're still waiting for your case on who to lynch. When you decide to start contributing, please also give me your opinion on Rainmaker and what you think about my read on him.
Still nothing on sufficiency...
On March 03 2012 06:50 DimmuKlok wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 05:51 Maverick32x wrote:+ Show Spoiler +@Sufficiency- Good posts!! I'm really glad to hear from you!! That being said, I truly am suspecting the following people as the most likely to be mafia at this point- Sufficiency- Its not so much the things you said, but the reactions that I've been gathering from the bottom two. Obviously I suspected you from the start due to your poor posting. But it seems like a lot of the other people were eager to let you get by as "poor town", and you weren't confronted at all. Then all of a sudden you post that you want to get rid of the lurker, and Dim hopes right on board. You've established zero credability in this thread, if anything you were seen as a non-helpful, yet for some reason you're getting bandwagon support..... Dim- You've spent a lot of time defending Mementoss, and bandwagoned with Sufficiency. On March 02 2012 19:25 DimmuKlok wrote:
My thoughts regarding Mementoss and Pablols, I think we have a case of 2 townies accusing each other. Yes Mementoss did misquote Pablols but his posts thus far have given me a town vibe, and a misquote is no reason to lynch someone. Pablols doesn't really have a solid case on him since Mementoss's case was addressed by Pablols, and in my opinion truth except for accusation of Mementoss.
Normally I wouldn't be posting who I think is town, but I don't want to see the discussion of who to lynch on these two, since I think it's a waste of time at the moment. On March 03 2012 03:24 DimmuKlok wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 03:09 Sufficiency wrote:
If I have to choose from the three I listed above, however, I'd probably just lynch beorn. It feels to me that his inactivity is either because he is really scum, or his lack of power (i.e. he is probably vanilla). I really don't think he is a PR of any sort. It feels like a safe lynch to me.
In my opinion, day1 lynch is very difficult to conduct. Without any "hard" evidence (from kills, etc.) and only through talking, any mafia can be just as pro-town as anyone else. I agree. Lets lynch beorn. He has yet to contribute and say who he feels is a good lynch candidate for today. On March 02 2012 07:59 DimmuKlok wrote:
Because some of you are starting to look at Mementoss, I'm going to post my opinion on him quickly and post my scum reads a bit later.
Mementoss's posts thus far seem pro town to me. He's been either giving his opinion on the topic at hand, pointing out inactives, and posting his scum reads.
Even if all his scum picks were wrong, it's still pro town to put it out there. It forces responses from the accused, which brings more information to the table. I think this is highly suspicous behavior. Both players have bounced off each other and defended each other's actions to establish credability. Mementos: On March 02 2012 05:46 Mementoss wrote:
Sufficiency (although trackd00r brings up a point about his sloppy posts)
Not counting Beorn cause I think it might be cause hes a noob and just forgot about the game starting to be honest. But he is in my mind too. Creating excuses for Sufficiency. On March 02 2012 10:37 Mementoss wrote:
@Maverick - I would also like to hear more from Sufficiency, I still have a decently scummy read on him based on his low amount of posting. Content related posters (includes at least 1 post unique opinion with logic and evidence to back it up.)
Mementoss
trackd00r
maverick
dimmuklok --> interested in your opinion of scum.
No unique opinion (bandwagoners) - Little content posts/one liners /derails
gunman
rainman
friedchicken
tiystus
otoshimoU
beornt
Quick to judge - Quick fos, multiple FoS, no evidence to back it up
Pablos FoS ->(trackd00r, mementoss)
Suffiency FoS ->(gunman, OtU)
I honestly was shocked when I saw Dimm in this list. I looked through his filter and did not see a whole lot of "Meaningful posts".. but I guess the bar was set kind of low for this... I think he kept Sufficiency in the bottom since obviously I have been making a scene about him. You later make a huge post about how scummy Sufficiency is, and how you think he is the worst townie ever, or mafia. On March 03 2012 02:57 Mementoss wrote:@Maverick, I still don't see the read on Tiystus personally, but would lvoe to hear more from him. I consider him more of a lurker than anything. If we lynch Sufficiency or OtoshimonoU I think there is a damn good chance one of them is scum, and they are both pretty worthless (so far ) as town. Don't forget OtoshimonoU not responding to you as well Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 12:04 Maverick32x wrote:
Maverick, you might sound very strong in your arguments, but to me it already shows your strange behavior.
@Oto: I would really be interested to know what it is that you mean by that? Its strange that I'm forming logical arguments? I'm trying to accomplish a goal. If you want to punch holes in my reads, by all means go ahead, but just blanket statements to create doubt doesn't seem like its very helpful. I want to get discussions going based off these reads so we can go into Day 1 Lynch with some suspicions and the ability to make an informed decision (as I've stated numerous times)
Not only ignores you but ignores trackd00r. Not only ignores you and trackd00rs question but also mine. About Sufficiency, I think he is town. No newbie mafia would try to catch up so much attention in that way. They'd rather stay more quiet and apparently contribute, which it's kinda working for them now. Beorn1 hasn't posted anything yet. The player I would worry right now is OtoshimonoU. He has been the least contributor (excluding beorn) so far. This is his only post with actual content. Right now the lack of posting is really hurting us seeing different point of views, and to get more of a read on where some people stand. Both sufficiency and OtoshimonoU are good lynches imo, and I just want to make sure we get the majority to get one out and gain some information. My vote right now is committed to [red]OtoshimonoU.[red] Yet you've flipped to Oto, and are actively trying to make me consider Oto, and point to his lack of answering to both myself and Trackd00r- trying to get us to sway our votes. All this being said!!!! I won't vote for mementoss or Dim. They do talk a lot, which would be useful later on if they do end up being Mafia... So I guess that leads me to who I should vote for... I have about 2 hours left!! So I'm going to keep reading through and seeing what people come up with!!! Feel free to respond Sufficiency, Dim and Mementoss- I'd like to hear a counter to what I've posted, since I'm trying to stay open-minded. Defending Mementoss was simply me trying to get the conversation in a more productive direction and off someone I thought was innocent at the time. Bandwagoning with Sufficiency actually had nothing to do with Sufficiency at all. When Sufficiency posted that he wanted to lynch Beorn, I quickly agreed and threw my vote on him. This was done in order to pressure Beorn out of hiding. In the post I hint at exactly what I want him to do, and that's to "contribute and say who he feels is a good lynch candidate". I suspected him as scum so his response was going to give me a lot of information. I even make another post to put the pressure back on Beorn and get some information out of him here: Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 05:06 DimmuKlok wrote:
Beorn, we're still waiting for your case on who to lynch. When you decide to start contributing, please also give me your opinion on Rainmaker and what you think about my read on him. My vote was not initially intended for Beorn, nor did I intend to keep it on him, because I didn't think he would get enough votes before the deadline. I'm changing my vote to Oto, who I originally intended on voting for. I want to state however that we cannot let this continue after today. We will always be more conformable with lynching someone who we have a read on, but we need a way to get lurkers to post. Consider this scenario... mafia without any consequences of not contributing can just chill day after day while everyone kills each other. On Day 2 I think we should seriously consider lynching lurkers, or start conversation on how to get them to post more.
Kind of a strange post.. seemingly distancing yourself from sufficiency since you're starting to worry that people are connecting you... You suspect Beorn of lurking and being scum.. but again.. no mention of sufficiency...
On March 03 2012 07:18 DimmuKlok wrote:
I'm somewhat lost when it comes to Sufficiency. I can't tell if he's smart and trying to get reactions out of people with his posts, or one of the many other things I've considered. If people are interested I can make a more detailed case on my opinion of him, but even I'm not too confident in my read on him.
This NEVER happens.
On March 05 2012 08:27 DimmuKlok wrote:
GG Mementoss, it's been fun.
OtoshimonoU, what is your read on Sufficiency? Also, who is your top scum read right now and why?
It honestly sounds like you're trying to figure out who's the biggest threat in the town...
On March 07 2012 01:55 DimmuKlok wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 00:46 blubbdavid wrote:
Oh shoot, didn't think about the possibility of a Godfather.
Dimmu's now randomly pointed against Willz, that's confusing. Could you please elaborate more why Willz looks suspicious?
And I feel too that a DT case against Rain would be wasted. Even if Rain returned town, how would it be helpful? "Hey look guys, we have a townie here, but one who doesn't contibute." I don't see how a DT case on Rain is wasted, or even less effective than a DT case on anyone else. Everyone has the same chance of being mafia, statistically, and Rain is the most likely to come up as Mafia in my opinion. If you investigate anyone and they turn up town, what does that tell you? Nothing, because it could be wrong, and even if it's right then you just have a confirmed town player who will continue to do what they did before that. My opinion of Willz is after this.
Possibly directing the DT towards a town?
On March 07 2012 03:03 DimmuKlok wrote:Why I called out Willz: Show nested quote +On March 04 2012 09:11 willz22912 wrote:
For now, based on our last vote counts, we can still vote OtoshimonoU off since he hasn't been modkilled or replaced and hasn't defended himself against the claims presented towards him. Refute any of my points if inconsistent, I'm still new and may be missing logic somewhere.
##Vote OtoshimonoU
Willz was the first person to vote for Oto. In this post he states clearly that he's completely ok with the current case on Oto and willing to lynch him. He even throws in a scapegoat for funzies(He's new). Show nested quote +On March 05 2012 04:19 willz22912 wrote:
My opinion on OtoshimonoU: The active players were already pushing for OtoshimonoU's lynch prior to the replacements, with mementoss being targetted and flipping green, it doesn't make sense to me that Mafia would accept OtoshimonoU getting lynched in response unless he didn't want to play anymore, I would like to hear from him to see if he is actually still going to be active before I throw my vote. It feels like a mislynch to me because OtoshimonoU hasn't given much in the way for defense, it seems more apathetic than really bad scum play. As quoted, blubbdavid's post suggests that he is more of a bandwagoner than anything truly malicious, and everyone that is bandwagoning in response on him seems like it is being directed by one of the active mafia posters posing as town. Now I am new to Mafia, but if everyone is already against you, how can you defend yourself without incurring claims of OMGUS?...
...Final opinion: Give time for the accused to respond, but otherwise, I'm voting Sufficiency.
He then states here, as confusingly as possible, that he thinks lynching Oto would be a mislynch. Later in the post saying he's more ok with a Sufficiency lynch than Oto, because of Blubbdavids post. Show nested quote +On March 05 2012 04:23 willz22912 wrote:
Just saw that OtoshimonoU just voted for himself, I think he's just giving up at this point because it's too hard to defend yourself if everyone already is on you. If he is that uninterested in the game, lynching him now seems really pointless and won't give any information. He's now sure that Oto is town and lynching him will give no information. I bolded it for importance. If Oto was mafia, obviously him getting lynched would give us plenty of information. All of these point of views are not incriminating yet, but important to keep in mind when you read this: Show nested quote +On March 06 2012 08:12 willz22912 wrote:
Okay, took a look at the responses.
We definitely have to get a successful lynch off on someone today otherwise mafia gets another free kill and we're still clueless. My top suspect so far is still Sufficiency, he still hasn't contributed anything meaningful and hasn't responded to any of the new accusations brought upon him. The other suspects proposed are OtoshimonoU and Rainmaker because he hasn't been active.
I'm inclined to just leave OtoshimonoU alone for another day and vote someone else like Sufficiency or Rainmaker, but you guys are seriously pushing for OtoshimonoU...
I am 90% confident that if we do decide to lynch OtoshimonoU he will flip green making the situation completely muddled. Better to get rid of someone who is barely active than a ridiculously easy target. If mafia were really pushing for his lynch than as stated, why has the vote been so hard to pull off? 3 Mafia + bandwagoning townies would have made it easy, the most likely reasoning is that we had too many lurkers fail to vote. That doesn't mean the Mafia are targetting him, that means that they are most likely content to just let us go after a mis-lynch on our own without trying to influence us too much.
That being said, I will be willing to switch to the OtoshimonoU vote if people are dead set on it, and we need my vote. I will state for the record that I am against this, but if it's a choice between a no-lynch and OtoshimonoU then we have no choice, and can try and gain information from it. This is where he begins to try to prove his innocence, while still getting rid of Oto. When you read this post, it's made very clear to you that he thinks Oto is green. I'd go even further to say that he knows that he's green. But alas, "That being said, I will be willing to switch to the OtoshimonoU vote if people are dead set on it, and we need my vote. I will state for the record that I am against this, but if it's a choice between a no-lynch and OtoshimonoU then we have no choice, and can try and gain information from it." Yea, lets get that information out of him that you said there wasn't any of... Show nested quote +On March 06 2012 08:15 willz22912 wrote:
Adding on/clarifying for my last sentence. If it's a choice between a no-lynch and OtoshimonoU again, then yeah we may as well see what his flipping will give us for information.
I guess I'll just switch my vote to OtoshimonoU now to make sure it goes through, but I still think it's a mistake. This post was made immediately after. He has the inherent feeling that he needs to defend his choice without anyone accusing him. Remember, it's for the information. Show nested quote +On March 06 2012 09:22 willz22912 wrote:On March 06 2012 08:36 Maverick32x wrote:
I know I say 'significantly' like its a huge amount of people, but I really think that it clears both sufficiency (who I'm HIGHLY suspicious of, and burbbles) Which is a larger step than we've taken so far... and I'm sure if we look at the filters we may be able to pull some conclusions as well... one of the things that would confuse me if he flipped town.. why killl Mementoss? Either way, we'll have some answers in a couple hours...
See this is what bugs me. It really doesn't clear anyone. Sufficiency is currently voting for a no lynch and Sbrubbles is voting Rainmaker. How is OtoshimonoU flipping green going to clear them when if they were Mafia, they would know if OtoshimonoU is town and if we have enough votes without Mafia pitching in to get rid of him. We have multiple people who were already dead set on OtoshimonoU, and then we have a couple others (myself included) who are willing to switch our votes to make sure a lynch 100% goes through. Now we have at least 3 people who are not voting OtoshimonoU. If we didn't have the swing votes, the lynch wouldn't go through AGAIN. This is clearly what the Mafia wants, us to be indecisive and confused while we keep losing key members during the night. If we mis-lynch we mis-lynch, but don't overstate how much information we're going to get. I already stated my opinion on Mementoss being targetted earlier as well, I think it was more he was the most active poster than for anyone in particular he had suspicions on. This post is the most telling. He tells everyone what he knew all along. Oto flipping green will not give information. He also knows that Oto is going to flip green, and that explains all the effort he put in to make sure that he would not be a suspect after his death. His last 3 posts were shortly before the lynch, and all pushed the same message. Oto being lynched was the perfect way for Willz to look innocent and to stay out of the light. It was too suspicious not to bring up. After thinking about it, a DT check on Willz wouldn't be too bad of an idea either.
Why you called out Willz- to protect Sufficiency? Pretty much switching the pressure..
On March 08 2012 16:20 DimmuKlok wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2012 15:14 Maverick32x wrote:
I really think we are pressuring the wrong guy if we are targeting Dim.... I completely agree with Trackd00r that we need to target one of those 3 lurkers.
Gunman, pablols or sufficiency... I would say the order that makes the most sense is the one I just listed... if we have a DT remaining, they should investigate sufficiency and hope hes just a regular mafia so we can set up a hit on the following day (assuming we get this next lynch correct)
My vote right now is for Gunman. I'm thinking that we are pointing fingers at each other while Mafia just slide into the background.... It seems like the remaining town are in a frenzy to try to stay alive and solve this... while the remaining people are not involved in this at all.... This is my assumption too. Of the three I'm thinking Gunman is the most likely candidate, but it's hard to say with them being so inactive in the late game. I have to look into this further before I vote. I would say Sufficiency is the least likely to be mafia, but that's only if I can make the assumption that this early posts were to get reads on their reactions, and not just bad play. The posts I'm referencing: Show nested quote +On March 01 2012 13:15 Sufficiency wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 01 2012 13:10 trackd00r wrote:
Suffciency, If you are willing to random lynch anyone, which player it would be? I hardly see a point of RL someone later on this day because we already might have better reads in that moment. If you want to take this action, throw a name by now. I don't really like the idea though.
Going to bed now. See you in about 9 hours. I actually FoS gunman103 right now for suggesting no RL. Show nested quote +On March 01 2012 13:16 Sufficiency wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
Oh great. Now he is defensive about it.
Anyway, since it's not the time to vote yet, we might as well wait until everyone talked a few lines.
Later, I tried to confirm which it was, and sadly his answer was: Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 20:18 Sufficiency wrote:On March 02 2012 17:59 DimmuKlok wrote:
Sufficiency, while you're here could you explain to me in more detail why you chose OtoshimonoU and gunman103? gutty feelings.
You defend sufficiency some more....
On March 09 2012 09:46 DimmuKlok wrote:
I went with Gunman. Obviously it's our only option at this point.
Defending would be too obvious.....
SO there are a couple examples of the 'connection'... I'm all for going for sufficiency first though.. so you still got time~
Lastly, who could the other 2 mafia be if not Sufficiency and Dim? Really try to answer that, and look at the connection between confirmed town and the 1 mafia that we have left.... There is a pattern of communication here- everyone left here had sufficiency in their sights at some point in the game... except Dim....
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*look for the connection between who we have left, the confirmed town that died and the 1 confirmed mafia*
Sorry, that last sentence was REALLY confusing...
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
Just a heads up, the day post will be delayed for a couple hours tonight. Sorry for the inconvenience.
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I see that I confused a lot of people here with my 'investigation' in a way.
I would like to apologize that I was an obstacle to town. I messed up with the timings and I admit it was too risky with my intentions, plus at any moment I could just had my internet not working by the time of the deadline and screw up everything, who knows...
But I'll admit that some information might be useful in the future.
@ Dimmuklok:
On March 10 2012 07:18 DimmuKlok wrote:
Please vote for me if you think I'm mafia. If you're all willing to throw the game away on such a stupid idea, then I'm not going to put in the effort to help this town.
Hey, If you are actually town, don't drop the towel now. Your last post seems like you are just interesting or unwilling to help. I don't know if you directed this to all of us or just me, but this is the worst time where you could surrender.
@Willz: So you say that blubb leans town because he defended you and evaluated your case against Dimmu. What about his behavior towards everyone in general?
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@ trackd00r Re: blubbdavid-
He came into this thread as a replacement and with some strong analysis against Sufficiency and OtoshimonoU. As we've seen Oto flipped green, making this suspect now. Other than that, he hasn't posted that much except in my defense. He was one of the ones who started the vote against gunman, and was the one I listened to after I asked who to vote for Day3. I don't have a good read on him other than how he's interacted with me, and pointing me towards gunman seems like town behavior.
I apologize but this is my first game and I came in as a replacement. I also have been getting busier with school so I would like to wrap this up win or lose pretty fast, and I just don't have time to really read over every single world everyones ever said. I have played pretty poorly so far in my own opinion and I can't really offer much in the way of evidence against anyone except for the case that I made against DimmuKlok which is too risky to pursue until we see how Sufficiency flips.
In summary as well, I'm most likely going to vote Sufficiency Day4 unless major information is obtained on who gets killed this night that gives us a better suspect.
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Sigh, I should have proofread instead of just blindly posting. In clarification, blubbdavid hasn't posted that much in terms of analysis except for what I originally said and my defense, the rest of his posts are pretty short responses. In this sense, I suppose he's a little suspicious, but I don't have enough to go on to suddenly make him the top suspect over anyone else. Sorry.
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This is a lot of text, but that's because I responded to every part of Mavericks post. It's crucial that you read it in it's entirety. It became painfully obvious to me that Maverick was Mafia by the end of the post.
On March 10 2012 08:20 Maverick32x wrote:Sure, I'll break down all my reasoning. Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 19:25 DimmuKlok wrote:
My thoughts regarding Mementoss and Pablols, I think we have a case of 2 townies accusing each other. Yes Mementoss did misquote Pablols but his posts thus far have given me a town vibe, and a misquote is no reason to lynch someone. Pablols doesn't really have a solid case on him since Mementoss's case was addressed by Pablols, and in my opinion truth except for accusation of Mementoss.
Normally I wouldn't be posting who I think is town, but I don't want to see the discussion of who to lynch on these two, since I think it's a waste of time at the moment.
It's past 4 in the morning here so I'm going to wait to post who I think we should lynch for in the morning. What I do want to post now is who is slipping underneath the radar... Rainmaker has posted twice so far. In his last post he said he had to head to class and that he would post his later on, which he never did. Beorn has only had one post thus far in which he agrees with the general consensus on random lynches. Early on you pick out two people.. 1 of which is confirmed town, the other though lost interest in the game, his replacement I'm thinking is also town.
Your first reason for me being mafia, is me defending 2 players that we later found out ended up being the correct decision...
On March 10 2012 08:20 Maverick32x wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 20:36 DimmuKlok wrote:On March 02 2012 20:18 Sufficiency wrote:On March 02 2012 17:59 DimmuKlok wrote:
Sufficiency, while you're here could you explain to me in more detail why you chose OtoshimonoU and gunman103? gutty feelings. Fair enough... I was hoping it was something a little more elaborate, but ok. Despite this complete dodge/slap in the face. You seem okay with taking this as answer.
I seem ok with the answer... This is your second reason for me being mafia...
I've already stated that was one of my multiple attempts at getting more info out of Sufficiency. My reaction and that face at the end was the face of me coming the realization that Sufficiency wasn't a mastermind, just someone who didn't want to put time into this thread.
On March 10 2012 08:20 Maverick32x wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 03:24 DimmuKlok wrote:On March 03 2012 03:09 Sufficiency wrote:
If I have to choose from the three I listed above, however, I'd probably just lynch beorn. It feels to me that his inactivity is either because he is really scum, or his lack of power (i.e. he is probably vanilla). I really don't think he is a PR of any sort. It feels like a safe lynch to me.
In my opinion, day1 lynch is very difficult to conduct. Without any "hard" evidence (from kills, etc.) and only through talking, any mafia can be just as pro-town as anyone else. I agree. Lets lynch beorn. He has yet to contribute and say who he feels is a good lynch candidate for today. Targeting the lurker, seems safe... however what about sufficiency?!
What about him? Am I supposed to be mentioning Sufficiency in all my posts? I've explained multiple times that post was to get Beorn out of hiding and had nothing to do with Sufficiency. Sufficiency just randomly accused beorn, and I took that opportunity to try and get him to start posting.
On March 10 2012 08:20 Maverick32x wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 03:55 DimmuKlok wrote:On March 03 2012 03:33 Rainmaker5 wrote:Ok I'm going to draft up a list and announce my vote real quick. this formatiting will be a bit wonky but I don't have time to really make shit pretty right now. going to link post #s so I don't have to explain where I'm getting information Trapdoor http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=13742776This is just a good post that I feel I can stand behind. Against a no-lynch and wants people to talk. Standard behavior for a good town player. Dimmuclock http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=13743011same shit, for a lynch wants people to discuss. Otoshi~~~ http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=13743011Here's pretty suspcious to me, starts out against a lynch at all, when people say they're for it switches to random lynch. Seems pretty scummy. Up to this point I don't think people had mentioned a random lynch. Gunman Don't really have a read on him b/c he doesn't really seem sure of his own opinion would like to hear more from him but I can't really say that FoSing currently Tiy and fried are on the lynch train- seems good Mav is seems pretty opposed to a random lynch, not to much to say after that Pablos http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=13750765going out of his way to fly off the handle when someone is suspicious, is well suspicious. Also he seems to be supporting random lynch? I'm not really sure Beorn doesn't really seem to have an opinion- no read So I don't really like Pablos's style, but he cleaned up towards the end. Mav and Memtoss are off my radar currenly because even if they're scum they're encouraging posts and moving forward that's going to hurt them. Suff is kinda sketchy- takes attention away from his rampant fingering by putting it on people who didn't react. But I really feel the guy who's generating the most noise is definitely OtoshimonoU. He feels really scummy and even if he's jsut playing poorly is the type of guy that real scum can use to keep deflecting attention. Which I guess is something you can suspect me of doing lol Anyway that's my vote and my analysis. Wish me luck on my Midterm! The only useful thing about this post is your opinion on OtoshimonoU. There is no point in bringing up the names of people that are not on our current suspect list and then not even accuse them of anything. That kind of information is just taking up space. You haven't posted much up until now and that post is looking pretty suspicious to me... ##FoS: Rainmaker5 Again, confirmed townie.
Him being a confirmed townie didn't make that post any more useful. I was correct in my suspicion of him. He ended up just being an inactive townie who got mod killed, instead of a mafia unwilling to contribute like I suspected.
There is no need for this to be included in your case against me. The fact that it was included should be looked upon as suspicious.
On March 10 2012 08:20 Maverick32x wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 05:06 DimmuKlok wrote:
Beorn, we're still waiting for your case on who to lynch. When you decide to start contributing, please also give me your opinion on Rainmaker and what you think about my read on him. Still nothing on sufficiency...
Why would there be anything on Sufficiency? This was posted right after I proposed a lynch on Beorn with Sufficiency! The reason for the post was to pressure Beorn, which I explained here:
On March 03 2012 06:50 DimmuKlok wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Defending Mementoss was simply me trying to get the conversation in a more productive direction and off someone I thought was innocent at the time. Bandwagoning with Sufficiency actually had nothing to do with Sufficiency at all. When Sufficiency posted that he wanted to lynch Beorn, I quickly agreed and threw my vote on him. This was done in order to pressure Beorn out of hiding. In the post I hint at exactly what I want him to do, and that's to "contribute and say who he feels is a good lynch candidate". I suspected him as scum so his response was going to give me a lot of information. I even make another post to put the pressure back on Beorn and get some information out of him here: On March 03 2012 05:06 DimmuKlok wrote:
Beorn, we're still waiting for your case on who to lynch. When you decide to start contributing, please also give me your opinion on Rainmaker and what you think about my read on him. My vote was not initially intended for Beorn, nor did I intend to keep it on him, because I didn't think he would get enough votes before the deadline. I'm changing my vote to Oto, who I originally intended on voting for. I want to state however that we cannot let this continue after today. We will always be more conformable with lynching someone who we have a read on, but we need a way to get lurkers to post. Consider this scenario... mafia without any consequences of not contributing can just chill day after day while everyone kills each other. On Day 2 I think we should seriously consider lynching lurkers, or start conversation on how to get them to post more.
You of all people should know this, considering this post was directed at you. Once again, highly suspicious that this made it into your case on me.
On March 10 2012 08:20 Maverick32x wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 06:50 DimmuKlok wrote:On March 03 2012 05:51 Maverick32x wrote:+ Show Spoiler +@Sufficiency- Good posts!! I'm really glad to hear from you!! That being said, I truly am suspecting the following people as the most likely to be mafia at this point- Sufficiency- Its not so much the things you said, but the reactions that I've been gathering from the bottom two. Obviously I suspected you from the start due to your poor posting. But it seems like a lot of the other people were eager to let you get by as "poor town", and you weren't confronted at all. Then all of a sudden you post that you want to get rid of the lurker, and Dim hopes right on board. You've established zero credability in this thread, if anything you were seen as a non-helpful, yet for some reason you're getting bandwagon support..... Dim- You've spent a lot of time defending Mementoss, and bandwagoned with Sufficiency. On March 02 2012 19:25 DimmuKlok wrote:
My thoughts regarding Mementoss and Pablols, I think we have a case of 2 townies accusing each other. Yes Mementoss did misquote Pablols but his posts thus far have given me a town vibe, and a misquote is no reason to lynch someone. Pablols doesn't really have a solid case on him since Mementoss's case was addressed by Pablols, and in my opinion truth except for accusation of Mementoss.
Normally I wouldn't be posting who I think is town, but I don't want to see the discussion of who to lynch on these two, since I think it's a waste of time at the moment. On March 03 2012 03:24 DimmuKlok wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 03:09 Sufficiency wrote:
If I have to choose from the three I listed above, however, I'd probably just lynch beorn. It feels to me that his inactivity is either because he is really scum, or his lack of power (i.e. he is probably vanilla). I really don't think he is a PR of any sort. It feels like a safe lynch to me.
In my opinion, day1 lynch is very difficult to conduct. Without any "hard" evidence (from kills, etc.) and only through talking, any mafia can be just as pro-town as anyone else. I agree. Lets lynch beorn. He has yet to contribute and say who he feels is a good lynch candidate for today. On March 02 2012 07:59 DimmuKlok wrote:
Because some of you are starting to look at Mementoss, I'm going to post my opinion on him quickly and post my scum reads a bit later.
Mementoss's posts thus far seem pro town to me. He's been either giving his opinion on the topic at hand, pointing out inactives, and posting his scum reads.
Even if all his scum picks were wrong, it's still pro town to put it out there. It forces responses from the accused, which brings more information to the table. I think this is highly suspicous behavior. Both players have bounced off each other and defended each other's actions to establish credability. Mementos: On March 02 2012 05:46 Mementoss wrote:
Sufficiency (although trackd00r brings up a point about his sloppy posts)
Not counting Beorn cause I think it might be cause hes a noob and just forgot about the game starting to be honest. But he is in my mind too. Creating excuses for Sufficiency. On March 02 2012 10:37 Mementoss wrote:
@Maverick - I would also like to hear more from Sufficiency, I still have a decently scummy read on him based on his low amount of posting. Content related posters (includes at least 1 post unique opinion with logic and evidence to back it up.)
Mementoss
trackd00r
maverick
dimmuklok --> interested in your opinion of scum.
No unique opinion (bandwagoners) - Little content posts/one liners /derails
gunman
rainman
friedchicken
tiystus
otoshimoU
beornt
Quick to judge - Quick fos, multiple FoS, no evidence to back it up
Pablos FoS ->(trackd00r, mementoss)
Suffiency FoS ->(gunman, OtU)
I honestly was shocked when I saw Dimm in this list. I looked through his filter and did not see a whole lot of "Meaningful posts".. but I guess the bar was set kind of low for this... I think he kept Sufficiency in the bottom since obviously I have been making a scene about him. You later make a huge post about how scummy Sufficiency is, and how you think he is the worst townie ever, or mafia. On March 03 2012 02:57 Mementoss wrote:@Maverick, I still don't see the read on Tiystus personally, but would lvoe to hear more from him. I consider him more of a lurker than anything. If we lynch Sufficiency or OtoshimonoU I think there is a damn good chance one of them is scum, and they are both pretty worthless (so far ) as town. Don't forget OtoshimonoU not responding to you as well Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 12:04 Maverick32x wrote:
Maverick, you might sound very strong in your arguments, but to me it already shows your strange behavior.
@Oto: I would really be interested to know what it is that you mean by that? Its strange that I'm forming logical arguments? I'm trying to accomplish a goal. If you want to punch holes in my reads, by all means go ahead, but just blanket statements to create doubt doesn't seem like its very helpful. I want to get discussions going based off these reads so we can go into Day 1 Lynch with some suspicions and the ability to make an informed decision (as I've stated numerous times)
Not only ignores you but ignores trackd00r. Not only ignores you and trackd00rs question but also mine. About Sufficiency, I think he is town. No newbie mafia would try to catch up so much attention in that way. They'd rather stay more quiet and apparently contribute, which it's kinda working for them now. Beorn1 hasn't posted anything yet. The player I would worry right now is OtoshimonoU. He has been the least contributor (excluding beorn) so far. This is his only post with actual content. Right now the lack of posting is really hurting us seeing different point of views, and to get more of a read on where some people stand. Both sufficiency and OtoshimonoU are good lynches imo, and I just want to make sure we get the majority to get one out and gain some information. My vote right now is committed to [red]OtoshimonoU.[red] Yet you've flipped to Oto, and are actively trying to make me consider Oto, and point to his lack of answering to both myself and Trackd00r- trying to get us to sway our votes. All this being said!!!! I won't vote for mementoss or Dim. They do talk a lot, which would be useful later on if they do end up being Mafia... So I guess that leads me to who I should vote for... I have about 2 hours left!! So I'm going to keep reading through and seeing what people come up with!!! Feel free to respond Sufficiency, Dim and Mementoss- I'd like to hear a counter to what I've posted, since I'm trying to stay open-minded. Defending Mementoss was simply me trying to get the conversation in a more productive direction and off someone I thought was innocent at the time. Bandwagoning with Sufficiency actually had nothing to do with Sufficiency at all. When Sufficiency posted that he wanted to lynch Beorn, I quickly agreed and threw my vote on him. This was done in order to pressure Beorn out of hiding. In the post I hint at exactly what I want him to do, and that's to "contribute and say who he feels is a good lynch candidate". I suspected him as scum so his response was going to give me a lot of information. I even make another post to put the pressure back on Beorn and get some information out of him here: On March 03 2012 05:06 DimmuKlok wrote:
Beorn, we're still waiting for your case on who to lynch. When you decide to start contributing, please also give me your opinion on Rainmaker and what you think about my read on him. My vote was not initially intended for Beorn, nor did I intend to keep it on him, because I didn't think he would get enough votes before the deadline. I'm changing my vote to Oto, who I originally intended on voting for. I want to state however that we cannot let this continue after today. We will always be more conformable with lynching someone who we have a read on, but we need a way to get lurkers to post. Consider this scenario... mafia without any consequences of not contributing can just chill day after day while everyone kills each other. On Day 2 I think we should seriously consider lynching lurkers, or start conversation on how to get them to post more. Kind of a strange post.. seemingly distancing yourself from sufficiency since you're starting to worry that people are connecting you... You suspect Beorn of lurking and being scum.. but again.. no mention of sufficiency...
Um, what? This is the post that was describing my bandwagoning with Sufficiency and our so called "connection" you claim we have. "No mention of Sufficiency", not sure what you mean by this. There is no reason for me to be randomly accusing him in that post.
On March 10 2012 08:20 Maverick32x wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 07:18 DimmuKlok wrote:
I'm somewhat lost when it comes to Sufficiency. I can't tell if he's smart and trying to get reactions out of people with his posts, or one of the many other things I've considered. If people are interested I can make a more detailed case on my opinion of him, but even I'm not too confident in my read on him. This NEVER happens.
Yes, actually it did. Nobody asked for it until willz, and when he did I answered his question about beorn, along with my read on Sufficiency in the next post. As I stated above, because of his inactivity it was hard to have a good case on him: On March 08 2012 16:20 DimmuKlok wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 08 2012 15:14 Maverick32x wrote:
I really think we are pressuring the wrong guy if we are targeting Dim.... I completely agree with Trackd00r that we need to target one of those 3 lurkers.
Gunman, pablols or sufficiency... I would say the order that makes the most sense is the one I just listed... if we have a DT remaining, they should investigate sufficiency and hope hes just a regular mafia so we can set up a hit on the following day (assuming we get this next lynch correct)
My vote right now is for Gunman. I'm thinking that we are pointing fingers at each other while Mafia just slide into the background.... It seems like the remaining town are in a frenzy to try to stay alive and solve this... while the remaining people are not involved in this at all.... This is my assumption too. Of the three I'm thinking Gunman is the most likely candidate, but it's hard to say with them being so inactive in the late game. I have to look into this further before I vote. I would say Sufficiency is the least likely to be mafia, but that's only if I can make the assumption that this early posts were to get reads on their reactions, and not just bad play. The posts I'm referencing: On March 01 2012 13:15 Sufficiency wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 01 2012 13:10 trackd00r wrote:
Suffciency, If you are willing to random lynch anyone, which player it would be? I hardly see a point of RL someone later on this day because we already might have better reads in that moment. If you want to take this action, throw a name by now. I don't really like the idea though.
Going to bed now. See you in about 9 hours. I actually FoS gunman103 right now for suggesting no RL. On March 01 2012 13:16 Sufficiency wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
Oh great. Now he is defensive about it.
Anyway, since it's not the time to vote yet, we might as well wait until everyone talked a few lines.
On March 02 2012 12:45 Sufficiency wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
I say we lynch OtoshimonoU or gunman103
Later, I tried to confirm which it was, and sadly his answer was: On March 02 2012 20:18 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 17:59 DimmuKlok wrote:
Sufficiency, while you're here could you explain to me in more detail why you chose OtoshimonoU and gunman103? gutty feelings.
On March 10 2012 08:20 Maverick32x wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2012 08:27 DimmuKlok wrote:
GG Mementoss, it's been fun.
OtoshimonoU, what is your read on Sufficiency? Also, who is your top scum read right now and why? It honestly sounds like you're trying to figure out who's the biggest threat in the town...
That post is simply me trying to get more information out of Oto. How you came to that conclusion and felt it was worth including in your list of reasons I'm mafia, is beyond me.
On March 10 2012 08:20 Maverick32x wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 01:55 DimmuKlok wrote:On March 07 2012 00:46 blubbdavid wrote:
Oh shoot, didn't think about the possibility of a Godfather.
Dimmu's now randomly pointed against Willz, that's confusing. Could you please elaborate more why Willz looks suspicious?
And I feel too that a DT case against Rain would be wasted. Even if Rain returned town, how would it be helpful? "Hey look guys, we have a townie here, but one who doesn't contibute." I don't see how a DT case on Rain is wasted, or even less effective than a DT case on anyone else. Everyone has the same chance of being mafia, statistically, and Rain is the most likely to come up as Mafia in my opinion. If you investigate anyone and they turn up town, what does that tell you? Nothing, because it could be wrong, and even if it's right then you just have a confirmed town player who will continue to do what they did before that. My opinion of Willz is after this. Possibly directing the DT towards a town?
If I was mafia, why would I care if a DT case went down on Rain? We now know he was a inactive towny, which I would have known at the time if i was mafia. Another massive slip Maverick.
On March 10 2012 08:20 Maverick32x wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 03:03 DimmuKlok wrote:Why I called out Willz: On March 04 2012 09:11 willz22912 wrote:
For now, based on our last vote counts, we can still vote OtoshimonoU off since he hasn't been modkilled or replaced and hasn't defended himself against the claims presented towards him. Refute any of my points if inconsistent, I'm still new and may be missing logic somewhere.
##Vote OtoshimonoU
Willz was the first person to vote for Oto. In this post he states clearly that he's completely ok with the current case on Oto and willing to lynch him. He even throws in a scapegoat for funzies(He's new). On March 05 2012 04:19 willz22912 wrote:
My opinion on OtoshimonoU: The active players were already pushing for OtoshimonoU's lynch prior to the replacements, with mementoss being targetted and flipping green, it doesn't make sense to me that Mafia would accept OtoshimonoU getting lynched in response unless he didn't want to play anymore, I would like to hear from him to see if he is actually still going to be active before I throw my vote. It feels like a mislynch to me because OtoshimonoU hasn't given much in the way for defense, it seems more apathetic than really bad scum play. As quoted, blubbdavid's post suggests that he is more of a bandwagoner than anything truly malicious, and everyone that is bandwagoning in response on him seems like it is being directed by one of the active mafia posters posing as town. Now I am new to Mafia, but if everyone is already against you, how can you defend yourself without incurring claims of OMGUS?...
...Final opinion: Give time for the accused to respond, but otherwise, I'm voting Sufficiency.
He then states here, as confusingly as possible, that he thinks lynching Oto would be a mislynch. Later in the post saying he's more ok with a Sufficiency lynch than Oto, because of Blubbdavids post. On March 05 2012 04:23 willz22912 wrote:
Just saw that OtoshimonoU just voted for himself, I think he's just giving up at this point because it's too hard to defend yourself if everyone already is on you. If he is that uninterested in the game, lynching him now seems really pointless and won't give any information. He's now sure that Oto is town and lynching him will give no information. I bolded it for importance. If Oto was mafia, obviously him getting lynched would give us plenty of information. All of these point of views are not incriminating yet, but important to keep in mind when you read this: On March 06 2012 08:12 willz22912 wrote:
Okay, took a look at the responses.
We definitely have to get a successful lynch off on someone today otherwise mafia gets another free kill and we're still clueless. My top suspect so far is still Sufficiency, he still hasn't contributed anything meaningful and hasn't responded to any of the new accusations brought upon him. The other suspects proposed are OtoshimonoU and Rainmaker because he hasn't been active.
I'm inclined to just leave OtoshimonoU alone for another day and vote someone else like Sufficiency or Rainmaker, but you guys are seriously pushing for OtoshimonoU...
I am 90% confident that if we do decide to lynch OtoshimonoU he will flip green making the situation completely muddled. Better to get rid of someone who is barely active than a ridiculously easy target. If mafia were really pushing for his lynch than as stated, why has the vote been so hard to pull off? 3 Mafia + bandwagoning townies would have made it easy, the most likely reasoning is that we had too many lurkers fail to vote. That doesn't mean the Mafia are targetting him, that means that they are most likely content to just let us go after a mis-lynch on our own without trying to influence us too much.
That being said, I will be willing to switch to the OtoshimonoU vote if people are dead set on it, and we need my vote. I will state for the record that I am against this, but if it's a choice between a no-lynch and OtoshimonoU then we have no choice, and can try and gain information from it. This is where he begins to try to prove his innocence, while still getting rid of Oto. When you read this post, it's made very clear to you that he thinks Oto is green. I'd go even further to say that he knows that he's green. But alas, "That being said, I will be willing to switch to the OtoshimonoU vote if people are dead set on it, and we need my vote. I will state for the record that I am against this, but if it's a choice between a no-lynch and OtoshimonoU then we have no choice, and can try and gain information from it." Yea, lets get that information out of him that you said there wasn't any of... On March 06 2012 08:15 willz22912 wrote:
Adding on/clarifying for my last sentence. If it's a choice between a no-lynch and OtoshimonoU again, then yeah we may as well see what his flipping will give us for information.
I guess I'll just switch my vote to OtoshimonoU now to make sure it goes through, but I still think it's a mistake. This post was made immediately after. He has the inherent feeling that he needs to defend his choice without anyone accusing him. Remember, it's for the information. On March 06 2012 09:22 willz22912 wrote:On March 06 2012 08:36 Maverick32x wrote:
I know I say 'significantly' like its a huge amount of people, but I really think that it clears both sufficiency (who I'm HIGHLY suspicious of, and burbbles) Which is a larger step than we've taken so far... and I'm sure if we look at the filters we may be able to pull some conclusions as well... one of the things that would confuse me if he flipped town.. why killl Mementoss? Either way, we'll have some answers in a couple hours...
See this is what bugs me. It really doesn't clear anyone. Sufficiency is currently voting for a no lynch and Sbrubbles is voting Rainmaker. How is OtoshimonoU flipping green going to clear them when if they were Mafia, they would know if OtoshimonoU is town and if we have enough votes without Mafia pitching in to get rid of him. We have multiple people who were already dead set on OtoshimonoU, and then we have a couple others (myself included) who are willing to switch our votes to make sure a lynch 100% goes through. Now we have at least 3 people who are not voting OtoshimonoU. If we didn't have the swing votes, the lynch wouldn't go through AGAIN. This is clearly what the Mafia wants, us to be indecisive and confused while we keep losing key members during the night. If we mis-lynch we mis-lynch, but don't overstate how much information we're going to get. I already stated my opinion on Mementoss being targetted earlier as well, I think it was more he was the most active poster than for anyone in particular he had suspicions on. This post is the most telling. He tells everyone what he knew all along. Oto flipping green will not give information. He also knows that Oto is going to flip green, and that explains all the effort he put in to make sure that he would not be a suspect after his death. His last 3 posts were shortly before the lynch, and all pushed the same message. Oto being lynched was the perfect way for Willz to look innocent and to stay out of the light. It was too suspicious not to bring up. After thinking about it, a DT check on Willz wouldn't be too bad of an idea either. Why you called out Willz- to protect Sufficiency? Pretty much switching the pressure..
Funny you say that now. You initial response was "Dim... I like that post.. a lot... ". Sounds like a lot of bandwagoning to me. It's obvious you're making wild assumptions.
On March 10 2012 08:20 Maverick32x wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2012 16:20 DimmuKlok wrote:On March 08 2012 15:14 Maverick32x wrote:
I really think we are pressuring the wrong guy if we are targeting Dim.... I completely agree with Trackd00r that we need to target one of those 3 lurkers.
Gunman, pablols or sufficiency... I would say the order that makes the most sense is the one I just listed... if we have a DT remaining, they should investigate sufficiency and hope hes just a regular mafia so we can set up a hit on the following day (assuming we get this next lynch correct)
My vote right now is for Gunman. I'm thinking that we are pointing fingers at each other while Mafia just slide into the background.... It seems like the remaining town are in a frenzy to try to stay alive and solve this... while the remaining people are not involved in this at all.... This is my assumption too. Of the three I'm thinking Gunman is the most likely candidate, but it's hard to say with them being so inactive in the late game. I have to look into this further before I vote. I would say Sufficiency is the least likely to be mafia, but that's only if I can make the assumption that this early posts were to get reads on their reactions, and not just bad play. The posts I'm referencing: On March 01 2012 13:15 Sufficiency wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 01 2012 13:10 trackd00r wrote:
Suffciency, If you are willing to random lynch anyone, which player it would be? I hardly see a point of RL someone later on this day because we already might have better reads in that moment. If you want to take this action, throw a name by now. I don't really like the idea though.
Going to bed now. See you in about 9 hours. I actually FoS gunman103 right now for suggesting no RL. On March 01 2012 13:16 Sufficiency wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
Oh great. Now he is defensive about it.
Anyway, since it's not the time to vote yet, we might as well wait until everyone talked a few lines.
On March 02 2012 12:45 Sufficiency wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
I say we lynch OtoshimonoU or gunman103
Later, I tried to confirm which it was, and sadly his answer was: On March 02 2012 20:18 Sufficiency wrote:On March 02 2012 17:59 DimmuKlok wrote:
Sufficiency, while you're here could you explain to me in more detail why you chose OtoshimonoU and gunman103? gutty feelings. You defend sufficiency some more....
That was not a defense of Sufficiency. I was giving my read on him at the time and I even said in the post that I would only consider him town if his early posts were to generate reactions and responses, which he never said was the case.
On March 10 2012 08:20 Maverick32x wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 09:46 DimmuKlok wrote:
I went with Gunman. Obviously it's our only option at this point. Defending would be too obvious.....
Once again you're just making the assumption I'm mafia. Saying "defending would be too obvious" isn't going to prove anything. How is this a reason I'm mafia?
On March 10 2012 08:20 Maverick32x wrote:
SO there are a couple examples of the 'connection'... I'm all for going for sufficiency first though.. so you still got time~
Lastly, who could the other 2 mafia be if not Sufficiency and Dim? Really try to answer that, and look at the connection between confirmed town and the 1 mafia that we have left.... There is a pattern of communication here- everyone left here had sufficiency in their sights at some point in the game... except Dim....
How bout you, buddy? With how many slips you made in that post, it's obvious. I urge everyone to go through Mavericks filter and see for yourself.
##FoS: Maverick32x
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When I say read it in it's entirety, I mean read the post maverick is quoting, as well as my response. It's crucial to see what he was commenting about when I responded to him.
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Finally!! I've been waiting for someone to FoS me!!! I've been eager to step up to this challenge and prove my innocence to everyone. I dont know if this is one of those "I'm targeting you, so you're targeting me sort of things" but if you truly are town I find it hard to believe that you would try to turn this to me- as opposed to trying to side with me and convince me- as opposed to trying to get me voted out.
But okay- flip through my filters. I realize that I've made some bad calls (oto specifically), and I accused people early on to try to get some motion going. But I want you guys to take note of the fact that I spared no one in my critical analysis of every single person in here. I didn't do it to make you guys angry- I did it to get people thinking and to also think critically about what I was saying. I came into this game not trusting anyone and assuming everyone is mafia- so I would read through every post and look for the connections....
1) I just want to remind everyone that there were accusations that I was 'teaming up' with Mementoss.. a confirmed townie.
2) I also initiated the vote on the ONLY mafia that we have found so far.
3) I've been a constant presence in all of these threads in order to target mafia- and to win.
@Dim- your only 'proof' of me being mafia is the fact that I'm targeting you right now based off of what I've written. You're not my target on this next vote so don't worry... I'm aiming for sufficiency... (but you will be next)
Actually, all of your proof now that I re-read it is empty and from the assumption that I'm somehow making up all of this information?
I'd also love to hear who you think the second mafia is if you think I am one also- who have I teamed up?
I realize that a lot of you guys have taken for granted the fact that someone who posts a lot and is active in finding mafia is actually town and not trying to trick you. I appreciate your faith and trust in me- and I look forwards to seeing this through till the end...
If you're going to target someone, it only makes sense to do this in pairs... We need to look at the rest of this game from a more global perspective.. if we try to just target ONE person... we will be guessing....
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If you want to convince me, you're going to have to do better than that.
1. Accusations that you and Mementoss were teaming up means nothing. Mementoss himself said that I should be a confirmed towny from there on. Also means nothing.
2. Blubbdavid was the first person to vote for gunman, not you.
3. That's your opinion.
Looking forward to you actually addressing my post in the future, Maverick.
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whos the second mafia dim?
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What makes you think I know? I'm sure they will reveal themselves eventually. Probably in a similar fashion.
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I want to hear you prediction- You claim I'm Mafia, so who's the other one? You can have one without the other...
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EPT
