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Lol, yep, and you're still unable to defend yourself. Even your best defense for Willz is that he defended Oto in one post, who he had voted prior to that post, and ultimately went with in the end. I wonder why it's so hard to come up with a sold defense for either of you...
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On March 11 2012 13:28 DimmuKlok wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 13:19 DimmuKlok wrote:On March 11 2012 13:09 willz22912 wrote:On March 11 2012 11:45 DimmuKlok wrote:
Ok, I think that's enough lurking for everyone. It seems like everyone didn't want to post their opinion on Maverick before the night came. Understandable, but we need to begin discussion again. If you look at my counter post against Maverick, it should be pretty easy to see that he is one of the remaining mafia.
I need to hear what everyone thought about my post. Asap, because I don't want to waste time. Why are you rushing a vote on Maverick before Sufficiency? We have 48 hours. What time are we wasting? You bring up some interesting points yes, but why push this before someone we all agree on?Do you still agree that Sufficiency is Mafia? If so, both of you do agree with that, so one of you is lying and willing to bus your last teammate, which is still a win for town. Sufficiency first, and then we smoke out the last member. Otherwise this is pretty damning evidence against you DimmuKlok. Too easy. Blubb, you can come out now. Yes, in case you were wondering, that is me saying willz is the other mafia member.
Gee I'm glad your time wasn't wasted, we have ~44 hours left to vote and you immediately know who to vote for. Thanks.
I'll redo my case against you with the new evidence you kindly provided. You're being pretty desperate to pull this stuff with so much time left on the vote.
There's only 5 of us, to get a successful lynch off you need 3. Me and Maverick clearly won't vote against ourselves, which leaves you, blubb, and sufficiency. 2 of you are Mafia.
Give me a good reason why you pick me because of my post, when it could have been ANYONE town who called you out on your ridiculous notion of not wasting any time.
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It wasn't calling me out that made it obvious. It wasn't even defending Maverick. What sold the deal was that you, along with Maverick, wanted to push the Sufficiency lynch. Maverick should be considered confirmed mafia after the reply I made about him. His focus first and foremost was a Sufficiency lynch. This made it obvious that he was town. The only options was you or Blubb. I had suspected that it was you after going through your filter, but I knew one of you would slip.
Blubb, go through Mavericks and Willz filters and see their relations to eachother and gunman. You'll see it.
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I'm going to reference the two posts I was talking about from you when I made this post:
On March 11 2012 13:09 willz22912 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 11:45 DimmuKlok wrote:
Ok, I think that's enough lurking for everyone. It seems like everyone didn't want to post their opinion on Maverick before the night came. Understandable, but we need to begin discussion again. If you look at my counter post against Maverick, it should be pretty easy to see that he is one of the remaining mafia.
I need to hear what everyone thought about my post. Asap, because I don't want to waste time. Why are you rushing a vote on Maverick before Sufficiency? We have 48 hours. What time are we wasting? You bring up some interesting points yes, but why push this before someone we all agree on?Do you still agree that Sufficiency is Mafia? If so, both of you do agree with that, so one of you is lying and willing to bus your last teammate, which is still a win for town. Sufficiency first, and then we smoke out the last member. Otherwise this is pretty damning evidence against you DimmuKlok.
+ Show Spoiler +On March 10 2012 07:59 DimmuKlok wrote:I'm assuming Sufficiency is one of the mafia that we have left. I'm less confident with going with someone else at the time. Maverick, why do you suspect me of being mafia? Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 01:58 Maverick32x wrote:
Dim- This one kind of breaks my heart because for a long time I really thought Dim was town.. but allow me to explain. Dim targetted Trackd00r at the end of this rant. That means that him and Trackd00r can not be mafia. Dim also votes randomly for Beorn for being a lurker... The only other person who voted for Beorn was... Sufficiency!! (Starting to see the connection?) He defends sufficiency- and NEVER accusses him.. Dim and Sufficiency have a connection.
Read it, and dismantled it. Multiple times might I add when it comes to the whole beorn thing. You say I defended Sufficiency, but that's not true at all. I've done nothing but try to get information out of that guy, but it's completely useless since he's given up on the game. You people keep trying to make a connection to me and Sufficiency and I'm taking note of it.
Post2.
+ Show Spoiler +On March 10 2012 12:02 DimmuKlok wrote:This is a lot of text, but that's because I responded to every part of Mavericks post. It's crucial that you read it in it's entirety. It became painfully obvious to me that Maverick was Mafia by the end of the post. Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 08:20 Maverick32x wrote:Sure, I'll break down all my reasoning. On March 02 2012 19:25 DimmuKlok wrote:
My thoughts regarding Mementoss and Pablols, I think we have a case of 2 townies accusing each other. Yes Mementoss did misquote Pablols but his posts thus far have given me a town vibe, and a misquote is no reason to lynch someone. Pablols doesn't really have a solid case on him since Mementoss's case was addressed by Pablols, and in my opinion truth except for accusation of Mementoss.
Normally I wouldn't be posting who I think is town, but I don't want to see the discussion of who to lynch on these two, since I think it's a waste of time at the moment.
It's past 4 in the morning here so I'm going to wait to post who I think we should lynch for in the morning. What I do want to post now is who is slipping underneath the radar... Rainmaker has posted twice so far. In his last post he said he had to head to class and that he would post his later on, which he never did. Beorn has only had one post thus far in which he agrees with the general consensus on random lynches. Early on you pick out two people.. 1 of which is confirmed town, the other though lost interest in the game, his replacement I'm thinking is also town. Your first reason for me being mafia, is me defending 2 players that we later found out ended up being the correct decision... Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 08:20 Maverick32x wrote:On March 02 2012 20:36 DimmuKlok wrote:On March 02 2012 20:18 Sufficiency wrote:On March 02 2012 17:59 DimmuKlok wrote:
Sufficiency, while you're here could you explain to me in more detail why you chose OtoshimonoU and gunman103? gutty feelings. Fair enough... I was hoping it was something a little more elaborate, but ok.  Despite this complete dodge/slap in the face. You seem okay with taking this as answer. I seem ok with the answer... This is your second reason for me being mafia... I've already stated that was one of my multiple attempts at getting more info out of Sufficiency. My reaction and that face at the end was the face of me coming the realization that Sufficiency wasn't a mastermind, just someone who didn't want to put time into this thread. Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 08:20 Maverick32x wrote:On March 03 2012 03:24 DimmuKlok wrote:On March 03 2012 03:09 Sufficiency wrote:
If I have to choose from the three I listed above, however, I'd probably just lynch beorn. It feels to me that his inactivity is either because he is really scum, or his lack of power (i.e. he is probably vanilla). I really don't think he is a PR of any sort. It feels like a safe lynch to me.
In my opinion, day1 lynch is very difficult to conduct. Without any "hard" evidence (from kills, etc.) and only through talking, any mafia can be just as pro-town as anyone else. I agree. Lets lynch beorn. He has yet to contribute and say who he feels is a good lynch candidate for today. Targeting the lurker, seems safe... however what about sufficiency?! What about him? Am I supposed to be mentioning Sufficiency in all my posts? I've explained multiple times that post was to get Beorn out of hiding and had nothing to do with Sufficiency. Sufficiency just randomly accused beorn, and I took that opportunity to try and get him to start posting. Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 08:20 Maverick32x wrote:On March 03 2012 03:55 DimmuKlok wrote:On March 03 2012 03:33 Rainmaker5 wrote:Ok I'm going to draft up a list and announce my vote real quick. this formatiting will be a bit wonky but I don't have time to really make shit pretty right now. going to link post #s so I don't have to explain where I'm getting information Trapdoor http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=13742776This is just a good post that I feel I can stand behind. Against a no-lynch and wants people to talk. Standard behavior for a good town player. Dimmuclock http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=13743011same shit, for a lynch wants people to discuss. Otoshi~~~ http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=13743011Here's pretty suspcious to me, starts out against a lynch at all, when people say they're for it switches to random lynch. Seems pretty scummy. Up to this point I don't think people had mentioned a random lynch. Gunman Don't really have a read on him b/c he doesn't really seem sure of his own opinion would like to hear more from him but I can't really say that FoSing currently Tiy and fried are on the lynch train- seems good Mav is seems pretty opposed to a random lynch, not to much to say after that Pablos http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=13750765going out of his way to fly off the handle when someone is suspicious, is well suspicious. Also he seems to be supporting random lynch? I'm not really sure Beorn doesn't really seem to have an opinion- no read So I don't really like Pablos's style, but he cleaned up towards the end. Mav and Memtoss are off my radar currenly because even if they're scum they're encouraging posts and moving forward that's going to hurt them. Suff is kinda sketchy- takes attention away from his rampant fingering by putting it on people who didn't react. But I really feel the guy who's generating the most noise is definitely OtoshimonoU. He feels really scummy and even if he's jsut playing poorly is the type of guy that real scum can use to keep deflecting attention. Which I guess is something you can suspect me of doing lol Anyway that's my vote and my analysis. Wish me luck on my Midterm! The only useful thing about this post is your opinion on OtoshimonoU. There is no point in bringing up the names of people that are not on our current suspect list and then not even accuse them of anything. That kind of information is just taking up space. You haven't posted much up until now and that post is looking pretty suspicious to me... ##FoS: Rainmaker5 Again, confirmed townie. Him being a confirmed townie didn't make that post any more useful. I was correct in my suspicion of him. He ended up just being an inactive townie who got mod killed, instead of a mafia unwilling to contribute like I suspected. There is no need for this to be included in your case against me. The fact that it was included should be looked upon as suspicious.Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 08:20 Maverick32x wrote:On March 03 2012 05:06 DimmuKlok wrote:
Beorn, we're still waiting for your case on who to lynch. When you decide to start contributing, please also give me your opinion on Rainmaker and what you think about my read on him. Still nothing on sufficiency... Why would there be anything on Sufficiency? This was posted right after I proposed a lynch on Beorn with Sufficiency! The reason for the post was to pressure Beorn, which I explained here: Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 06:50 DimmuKlok wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Defending Mementoss was simply me trying to get the conversation in a more productive direction and off someone I thought was innocent at the time. Bandwagoning with Sufficiency actually had nothing to do with Sufficiency at all. When Sufficiency posted that he wanted to lynch Beorn, I quickly agreed and threw my vote on him. This was done in order to pressure Beorn out of hiding. In the post I hint at exactly what I want him to do, and that's to "contribute and say who he feels is a good lynch candidate". I suspected him as scum so his response was going to give me a lot of information. I even make another post to put the pressure back on Beorn and get some information out of him here: On March 03 2012 05:06 DimmuKlok wrote:
Beorn, we're still waiting for your case on who to lynch. When you decide to start contributing, please also give me your opinion on Rainmaker and what you think about my read on him. My vote was not initially intended for Beorn, nor did I intend to keep it on him, because I didn't think he would get enough votes before the deadline. I'm changing my vote to Oto, who I originally intended on voting for. I want to state however that we cannot let this continue after today. We will always be more conformable with lynching someone who we have a read on, but we need a way to get lurkers to post. Consider this scenario... mafia without any consequences of not contributing can just chill day after day while everyone kills each other. On Day 2 I think we should seriously consider lynching lurkers, or start conversation on how to get them to post more. You of all people should know this, considering this post was directed at you. Once again, highly suspicious that this made it into your case on me. Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 08:20 Maverick32x wrote:On March 03 2012 06:50 DimmuKlok wrote:On March 03 2012 05:51 Maverick32x wrote:+ Show Spoiler +@Sufficiency- Good posts!! I'm really glad to hear from you!! That being said, I truly am suspecting the following people as the most likely to be mafia at this point- Sufficiency- Its not so much the things you said, but the reactions that I've been gathering from the bottom two. Obviously I suspected you from the start due to your poor posting. But it seems like a lot of the other people were eager to let you get by as "poor town", and you weren't confronted at all. Then all of a sudden you post that you want to get rid of the lurker, and Dim hopes right on board. You've established zero credability in this thread, if anything you were seen as a non-helpful, yet for some reason you're getting bandwagon support..... Dim- You've spent a lot of time defending Mementoss, and bandwagoned with Sufficiency. On March 02 2012 19:25 DimmuKlok wrote:
My thoughts regarding Mementoss and Pablols, I think we have a case of 2 townies accusing each other. Yes Mementoss did misquote Pablols but his posts thus far have given me a town vibe, and a misquote is no reason to lynch someone. Pablols doesn't really have a solid case on him since Mementoss's case was addressed by Pablols, and in my opinion truth except for accusation of Mementoss.
Normally I wouldn't be posting who I think is town, but I don't want to see the discussion of who to lynch on these two, since I think it's a waste of time at the moment. On March 03 2012 03:24 DimmuKlok wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 03:09 Sufficiency wrote:
If I have to choose from the three I listed above, however, I'd probably just lynch beorn. It feels to me that his inactivity is either because he is really scum, or his lack of power (i.e. he is probably vanilla). I really don't think he is a PR of any sort. It feels like a safe lynch to me.
In my opinion, day1 lynch is very difficult to conduct. Without any "hard" evidence (from kills, etc.) and only through talking, any mafia can be just as pro-town as anyone else. I agree. Lets lynch beorn. He has yet to contribute and say who he feels is a good lynch candidate for today. On March 02 2012 07:59 DimmuKlok wrote:
Because some of you are starting to look at Mementoss, I'm going to post my opinion on him quickly and post my scum reads a bit later.
Mementoss's posts thus far seem pro town to me. He's been either giving his opinion on the topic at hand, pointing out inactives, and posting his scum reads.
Even if all his scum picks were wrong, it's still pro town to put it out there. It forces responses from the accused, which brings more information to the table. I think this is highly suspicous behavior. Both players have bounced off each other and defended each other's actions to establish credability. Mementos: On March 02 2012 05:46 Mementoss wrote:
Sufficiency (although trackd00r brings up a point about his sloppy posts)
Not counting Beorn cause I think it might be cause hes a noob and just forgot about the game starting to be honest. But he is in my mind too. Creating excuses for Sufficiency. On March 02 2012 10:37 Mementoss wrote:
@Maverick - I would also like to hear more from Sufficiency, I still have a decently scummy read on him based on his low amount of posting. Content related posters (includes at least 1 post unique opinion with logic and evidence to back it up.)
Mementoss
trackd00r
maverick
dimmuklok --> interested in your opinion of scum.
No unique opinion (bandwagoners) - Little content posts/one liners /derails
gunman
rainman
friedchicken
tiystus
otoshimoU
beornt
Quick to judge - Quick fos, multiple FoS, no evidence to back it up
Pablos FoS ->(trackd00r, mementoss)
Suffiency FoS ->(gunman, OtU)
I honestly was shocked when I saw Dimm in this list. I looked through his filter and did not see a whole lot of "Meaningful posts".. but I guess the bar was set kind of low for this... I think he kept Sufficiency in the bottom since obviously I have been making a scene about him. You later make a huge post about how scummy Sufficiency is, and how you think he is the worst townie ever, or mafia. On March 03 2012 02:57 Mementoss wrote:@Maverick, I still don't see the read on Tiystus personally, but would lvoe to hear more from him. I consider him more of a lurker than anything. If we lynch Sufficiency or OtoshimonoU I think there is a damn good chance one of them is scum, and they are both pretty worthless (so far ) as town. Don't forget OtoshimonoU not responding to you as well Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 12:04 Maverick32x wrote:
Maverick, you might sound very strong in your arguments, but to me it already shows your strange behavior.
@Oto: I would really be interested to know what it is that you mean by that? Its strange that I'm forming logical arguments? I'm trying to accomplish a goal. If you want to punch holes in my reads, by all means go ahead, but just blanket statements to create doubt doesn't seem like its very helpful. I want to get discussions going based off these reads so we can go into Day 1 Lynch with some suspicions and the ability to make an informed decision (as I've stated numerous times)
Not only ignores you but ignores trackd00r. Not only ignores you and trackd00rs question but also mine. About Sufficiency, I think he is town. No newbie mafia would try to catch up so much attention in that way. They'd rather stay more quiet and apparently contribute, which it's kinda working for them now. Beorn1 hasn't posted anything yet. The player I would worry right now is OtoshimonoU. He has been the least contributor (excluding beorn) so far. This is his only post with actual content. Right now the lack of posting is really hurting us seeing different point of views, and to get more of a read on where some people stand. Both sufficiency and OtoshimonoU are good lynches imo, and I just want to make sure we get the majority to get one out and gain some information. My vote right now is committed to [red]OtoshimonoU.[red] Yet you've flipped to Oto, and are actively trying to make me consider Oto, and point to his lack of answering to both myself and Trackd00r- trying to get us to sway our votes. All this being said!!!! I won't vote for mementoss or Dim. They do talk a lot, which would be useful later on if they do end up being Mafia... So I guess that leads me to who I should vote for... I have about 2 hours left!! So I'm going to keep reading through and seeing what people come up with!!! Feel free to respond Sufficiency, Dim and Mementoss- I'd like to hear a counter to what I've posted, since I'm trying to stay open-minded. Defending Mementoss was simply me trying to get the conversation in a more productive direction and off someone I thought was innocent at the time. Bandwagoning with Sufficiency actually had nothing to do with Sufficiency at all. When Sufficiency posted that he wanted to lynch Beorn, I quickly agreed and threw my vote on him. This was done in order to pressure Beorn out of hiding. In the post I hint at exactly what I want him to do, and that's to "contribute and say who he feels is a good lynch candidate". I suspected him as scum so his response was going to give me a lot of information. I even make another post to put the pressure back on Beorn and get some information out of him here: On March 03 2012 05:06 DimmuKlok wrote:
Beorn, we're still waiting for your case on who to lynch. When you decide to start contributing, please also give me your opinion on Rainmaker and what you think about my read on him. My vote was not initially intended for Beorn, nor did I intend to keep it on him, because I didn't think he would get enough votes before the deadline. I'm changing my vote to Oto, who I originally intended on voting for. I want to state however that we cannot let this continue after today. We will always be more conformable with lynching someone who we have a read on, but we need a way to get lurkers to post. Consider this scenario... mafia without any consequences of not contributing can just chill day after day while everyone kills each other. On Day 2 I think we should seriously consider lynching lurkers, or start conversation on how to get them to post more. Kind of a strange post.. seemingly distancing yourself from sufficiency since you're starting to worry that people are connecting you... You suspect Beorn of lurking and being scum.. but again.. no mention of sufficiency... Um, what? This is the post that was describing my bandwagoning with Sufficiency and our so called "connection" you claim we have. "No mention of Sufficiency", not sure what you mean by this. There is no reason for me to be randomly accusing him in that post. Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 08:20 Maverick32x wrote:On March 03 2012 07:18 DimmuKlok wrote:
I'm somewhat lost when it comes to Sufficiency. I can't tell if he's smart and trying to get reactions out of people with his posts, or one of the many other things I've considered. If people are interested I can make a more detailed case on my opinion of him, but even I'm not too confident in my read on him. This NEVER happens. Yes, actually it did. Nobody asked for it until willz, and when he did I answered his question about beorn, along with my read on Sufficiency in the next post. As I stated above, because of his inactivity it was hard to have a good case on him: Show nested quote +On March 08 2012 16:20 DimmuKlok wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 08 2012 15:14 Maverick32x wrote:
I really think we are pressuring the wrong guy if we are targeting Dim.... I completely agree with Trackd00r that we need to target one of those 3 lurkers.
Gunman, pablols or sufficiency... I would say the order that makes the most sense is the one I just listed... if we have a DT remaining, they should investigate sufficiency and hope hes just a regular mafia so we can set up a hit on the following day (assuming we get this next lynch correct)
My vote right now is for Gunman. I'm thinking that we are pointing fingers at each other while Mafia just slide into the background.... It seems like the remaining town are in a frenzy to try to stay alive and solve this... while the remaining people are not involved in this at all.... This is my assumption too. Of the three I'm thinking Gunman is the most likely candidate, but it's hard to say with them being so inactive in the late game. I have to look into this further before I vote. I would say Sufficiency is the least likely to be mafia, but that's only if I can make the assumption that this early posts were to get reads on their reactions, and not just bad play. The posts I'm referencing: On March 01 2012 13:15 Sufficiency wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 01 2012 13:10 trackd00r wrote:
Suffciency, If you are willing to random lynch anyone, which player it would be? I hardly see a point of RL someone later on this day because we already might have better reads in that moment. If you want to take this action, throw a name by now. I don't really like the idea though.
Going to bed now. See you in about 9 hours. I actually FoS gunman103 right now for suggesting no RL. On March 01 2012 13:16 Sufficiency wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
Oh great. Now he is defensive about it.
Anyway, since it's not the time to vote yet, we might as well wait until everyone talked a few lines.
On March 02 2012 12:45 Sufficiency wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
I say we lynch OtoshimonoU or gunman103
Later, I tried to confirm which it was, and sadly his answer was: On March 02 2012 20:18 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 17:59 DimmuKlok wrote:
Sufficiency, while you're here could you explain to me in more detail why you chose OtoshimonoU and gunman103? gutty feelings. Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 08:20 Maverick32x wrote:On March 05 2012 08:27 DimmuKlok wrote:
GG Mementoss, it's been fun.
OtoshimonoU, what is your read on Sufficiency? Also, who is your top scum read right now and why? It honestly sounds like you're trying to figure out who's the biggest threat in the town... That post is simply me trying to get more information out of Oto. How you came to that conclusion and felt it was worth including in your list of reasons I'm mafia, is beyond me. Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 08:20 Maverick32x wrote:On March 07 2012 01:55 DimmuKlok wrote:On March 07 2012 00:46 blubbdavid wrote:
Oh shoot, didn't think about the possibility of a Godfather.
Dimmu's now randomly pointed against Willz, that's confusing. Could you please elaborate more why Willz looks suspicious?
And I feel too that a DT case against Rain would be wasted. Even if Rain returned town, how would it be helpful? "Hey look guys, we have a townie here, but one who doesn't contibute." I don't see how a DT case on Rain is wasted, or even less effective than a DT case on anyone else. Everyone has the same chance of being mafia, statistically, and Rain is the most likely to come up as Mafia in my opinion. If you investigate anyone and they turn up town, what does that tell you? Nothing, because it could be wrong, and even if it's right then you just have a confirmed town player who will continue to do what they did before that. My opinion of Willz is after this. Possibly directing the DT towards a town? If I was mafia, why would I care if a DT case went down on Rain? We now know he was a inactive towny, which I would have known at the time if i was mafia. Another massive slip Maverick. Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 08:20 Maverick32x wrote:On March 07 2012 03:03 DimmuKlok wrote:Why I called out Willz: On March 04 2012 09:11 willz22912 wrote:
For now, based on our last vote counts, we can still vote OtoshimonoU off since he hasn't been modkilled or replaced and hasn't defended himself against the claims presented towards him. Refute any of my points if inconsistent, I'm still new and may be missing logic somewhere.
##Vote OtoshimonoU
Willz was the first person to vote for Oto. In this post he states clearly that he's completely ok with the current case on Oto and willing to lynch him. He even throws in a scapegoat for funzies(He's new). On March 05 2012 04:19 willz22912 wrote:
My opinion on OtoshimonoU: The active players were already pushing for OtoshimonoU's lynch prior to the replacements, with mementoss being targetted and flipping green, it doesn't make sense to me that Mafia would accept OtoshimonoU getting lynched in response unless he didn't want to play anymore, I would like to hear from him to see if he is actually still going to be active before I throw my vote. It feels like a mislynch to me because OtoshimonoU hasn't given much in the way for defense, it seems more apathetic than really bad scum play. As quoted, blubbdavid's post suggests that he is more of a bandwagoner than anything truly malicious, and everyone that is bandwagoning in response on him seems like it is being directed by one of the active mafia posters posing as town. Now I am new to Mafia, but if everyone is already against you, how can you defend yourself without incurring claims of OMGUS?...
...Final opinion: Give time for the accused to respond, but otherwise, I'm voting Sufficiency.
He then states here, as confusingly as possible, that he thinks lynching Oto would be a mislynch. Later in the post saying he's more ok with a Sufficiency lynch than Oto, because of Blubbdavids post. On March 05 2012 04:23 willz22912 wrote:
Just saw that OtoshimonoU just voted for himself, I think he's just giving up at this point because it's too hard to defend yourself if everyone already is on you. If he is that uninterested in the game, lynching him now seems really pointless and won't give any information. He's now sure that Oto is town and lynching him will give no information. I bolded it for importance. If Oto was mafia, obviously him getting lynched would give us plenty of information. All of these point of views are not incriminating yet, but important to keep in mind when you read this: On March 06 2012 08:12 willz22912 wrote:
Okay, took a look at the responses.
We definitely have to get a successful lynch off on someone today otherwise mafia gets another free kill and we're still clueless. My top suspect so far is still Sufficiency, he still hasn't contributed anything meaningful and hasn't responded to any of the new accusations brought upon him. The other suspects proposed are OtoshimonoU and Rainmaker because he hasn't been active.
I'm inclined to just leave OtoshimonoU alone for another day and vote someone else like Sufficiency or Rainmaker, but you guys are seriously pushing for OtoshimonoU...
I am 90% confident that if we do decide to lynch OtoshimonoU he will flip green making the situation completely muddled. Better to get rid of someone who is barely active than a ridiculously easy target. If mafia were really pushing for his lynch than as stated, why has the vote been so hard to pull off? 3 Mafia + bandwagoning townies would have made it easy, the most likely reasoning is that we had too many lurkers fail to vote. That doesn't mean the Mafia are targetting him, that means that they are most likely content to just let us go after a mis-lynch on our own without trying to influence us too much.
That being said, I will be willing to switch to the OtoshimonoU vote if people are dead set on it, and we need my vote. I will state for the record that I am against this, but if it's a choice between a no-lynch and OtoshimonoU then we have no choice, and can try and gain information from it. This is where he begins to try to prove his innocence, while still getting rid of Oto. When you read this post, it's made very clear to you that he thinks Oto is green. I'd go even further to say that he knows that he's green. But alas, "That being said, I will be willing to switch to the OtoshimonoU vote if people are dead set on it, and we need my vote. I will state for the record that I am against this, but if it's a choice between a no-lynch and OtoshimonoU then we have no choice, and can try and gain information from it." Yea, lets get that information out of him that you said there wasn't any of... On March 06 2012 08:15 willz22912 wrote:
Adding on/clarifying for my last sentence. If it's a choice between a no-lynch and OtoshimonoU again, then yeah we may as well see what his flipping will give us for information.
I guess I'll just switch my vote to OtoshimonoU now to make sure it goes through, but I still think it's a mistake. This post was made immediately after. He has the inherent feeling that he needs to defend his choice without anyone accusing him. Remember, it's for the information. On March 06 2012 09:22 willz22912 wrote:On March 06 2012 08:36 Maverick32x wrote:
I know I say 'significantly' like its a huge amount of people, but I really think that it clears both sufficiency (who I'm HIGHLY suspicious of, and burbbles) Which is a larger step than we've taken so far... and I'm sure if we look at the filters we may be able to pull some conclusions as well... one of the things that would confuse me if he flipped town.. why killl Mementoss? Either way, we'll have some answers in a couple hours...
See this is what bugs me. It really doesn't clear anyone. Sufficiency is currently voting for a no lynch and Sbrubbles is voting Rainmaker. How is OtoshimonoU flipping green going to clear them when if they were Mafia, they would know if OtoshimonoU is town and if we have enough votes without Mafia pitching in to get rid of him. We have multiple people who were already dead set on OtoshimonoU, and then we have a couple others (myself included) who are willing to switch our votes to make sure a lynch 100% goes through. Now we have at least 3 people who are not voting OtoshimonoU. If we didn't have the swing votes, the lynch wouldn't go through AGAIN. This is clearly what the Mafia wants, us to be indecisive and confused while we keep losing key members during the night. If we mis-lynch we mis-lynch, but don't overstate how much information we're going to get. I already stated my opinion on Mementoss being targetted earlier as well, I think it was more he was the most active poster than for anyone in particular he had suspicions on. This post is the most telling. He tells everyone what he knew all along. Oto flipping green will not give information. He also knows that Oto is going to flip green, and that explains all the effort he put in to make sure that he would not be a suspect after his death. His last 3 posts were shortly before the lynch, and all pushed the same message. Oto being lynched was the perfect way for Willz to look innocent and to stay out of the light. It was too suspicious not to bring up. After thinking about it, a DT check on Willz wouldn't be too bad of an idea either. Why you called out Willz- to protect Sufficiency? Pretty much switching the pressure.. Funny you say that now. You initial response was "Dim... I like that post.. a lot... ". Sounds like a lot of bandwagoning to me. It's obvious you're making wild assumptions. Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 08:20 Maverick32x wrote:On March 08 2012 16:20 DimmuKlok wrote:On March 08 2012 15:14 Maverick32x wrote:
I really think we are pressuring the wrong guy if we are targeting Dim.... I completely agree with Trackd00r that we need to target one of those 3 lurkers.
Gunman, pablols or sufficiency... I would say the order that makes the most sense is the one I just listed... if we have a DT remaining, they should investigate sufficiency and hope hes just a regular mafia so we can set up a hit on the following day (assuming we get this next lynch correct)
My vote right now is for Gunman. I'm thinking that we are pointing fingers at each other while Mafia just slide into the background.... It seems like the remaining town are in a frenzy to try to stay alive and solve this... while the remaining people are not involved in this at all.... This is my assumption too. Of the three I'm thinking Gunman is the most likely candidate, but it's hard to say with them being so inactive in the late game. I have to look into this further before I vote. I would say Sufficiency is the least likely to be mafia, but that's only if I can make the assumption that this early posts were to get reads on their reactions, and not just bad play. The posts I'm referencing: On March 01 2012 13:15 Sufficiency wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 01 2012 13:10 trackd00r wrote:
Suffciency, If you are willing to random lynch anyone, which player it would be? I hardly see a point of RL someone later on this day because we already might have better reads in that moment. If you want to take this action, throw a name by now. I don't really like the idea though.
Going to bed now. See you in about 9 hours. I actually FoS gunman103 right now for suggesting no RL. On March 01 2012 13:16 Sufficiency wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
Oh great. Now he is defensive about it.
Anyway, since it's not the time to vote yet, we might as well wait until everyone talked a few lines.
On March 02 2012 12:45 Sufficiency wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
I say we lynch OtoshimonoU or gunman103
Later, I tried to confirm which it was, and sadly his answer was: On March 02 2012 20:18 Sufficiency wrote:On March 02 2012 17:59 DimmuKlok wrote:
Sufficiency, while you're here could you explain to me in more detail why you chose OtoshimonoU and gunman103? gutty feelings. You defend sufficiency some more.... That was not a defense of Sufficiency. I was giving my read on him at the time and I even said in the post that I would only consider him town if his early posts were to generate reactions and responses, which he never said was the case. Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 08:20 Maverick32x wrote:On March 09 2012 09:46 DimmuKlok wrote:
I went with Gunman. Obviously it's our only option at this point. Defending would be too obvious..... Once again you're just making the assumption I'm mafia. Saying "defending would be too obvious" isn't going to prove anything. How is this a reason I'm mafia? Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 08:20 Maverick32x wrote:
SO there are a couple examples of the 'connection'... I'm all for going for sufficiency first though.. so you still got time~
Lastly, who could the other 2 mafia be if not Sufficiency and Dim? Really try to answer that, and look at the connection between confirmed town and the 1 mafia that we have left.... There is a pattern of communication here- everyone left here had sufficiency in their sights at some point in the game... except Dim....
How bout you, buddy? With how many slips you made in that post, it's obvious. I urge everyone to go through Mavericks filter and see for yourself. ##FoS: Maverick32x
This is my point of view while reading the thread. You said you still suspected Sufficiency. Maverick still suspected Sufficiency. You now suspect Maverick. You are trying to convince other town to vote for you. By the time I came into this thread and read up tonight, you had declared your vote for Maverick and you were 100% confident. I am asking for clarification since we still have time and there is no need to rush, and you use this to justify calling me Mafia? The fact that I was willing to push a Sufficiency lynch that you yourself agreed with not more than a day ago?
It all comes to blubb in the tiebreaker and who he believes I guess. Or hell, I'll even listen to Sufficiency and see his reasons.
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Ok. I don't have time to keep going back and forth I'll back in a few hours, or in the morning when I wake up. If you're curious about my views, just read my recent posts. I've explained my thinking. I'll be back.
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On March 11 2012 14:18 willz22912 wrote:I'm going to reference the two posts I was talking about from you when I made this post: Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 13:09 willz22912 wrote:On March 11 2012 11:45 DimmuKlok wrote:
Ok, I think that's enough lurking for everyone. It seems like everyone didn't want to post their opinion on Maverick before the night came. Understandable, but we need to begin discussion again. If you look at my counter post against Maverick, it should be pretty easy to see that he is one of the remaining mafia.
I need to hear what everyone thought about my post. Asap, because I don't want to waste time. Why are you rushing a vote on Maverick before Sufficiency? We have 48 hours. What time are we wasting? You bring up some interesting points yes, but why push this before someone we all agree on?Do you still agree that Sufficiency is Mafia? If so, both of you do agree with that, so one of you is lying and willing to bus your last teammate, which is still a win for town. Sufficiency first, and then we smoke out the last member. Otherwise this is pretty damning evidence against you DimmuKlok. + Show Spoiler +On March 10 2012 07:59 DimmuKlok wrote:I'm assuming Sufficiency is one of the mafia that we have left. I'm less confident with going with someone else at the time. Maverick, why do you suspect me of being mafia? Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 01:58 Maverick32x wrote:
Dim- This one kind of breaks my heart because for a long time I really thought Dim was town.. but allow me to explain. Dim targetted Trackd00r at the end of this rant. That means that him and Trackd00r can not be mafia. Dim also votes randomly for Beorn for being a lurker... The only other person who voted for Beorn was... Sufficiency!! (Starting to see the connection?) He defends sufficiency- and NEVER accusses him.. Dim and Sufficiency have a connection.
Read it, and dismantled it. Multiple times might I add when it comes to the whole beorn thing. You say I defended Sufficiency, but that's not true at all. I've done nothing but try to get information out of that guy, but it's completely useless since he's given up on the game. You people keep trying to make a connection to me and Sufficiency and I'm taking note of it. Post2. + Show Spoiler +On March 10 2012 12:02 DimmuKlok wrote:This is a lot of text, but that's because I responded to every part of Mavericks post. It's crucial that you read it in it's entirety. It became painfully obvious to me that Maverick was Mafia by the end of the post. Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 08:20 Maverick32x wrote:Sure, I'll break down all my reasoning. On March 02 2012 19:25 DimmuKlok wrote:
My thoughts regarding Mementoss and Pablols, I think we have a case of 2 townies accusing each other. Yes Mementoss did misquote Pablols but his posts thus far have given me a town vibe, and a misquote is no reason to lynch someone. Pablols doesn't really have a solid case on him since Mementoss's case was addressed by Pablols, and in my opinion truth except for accusation of Mementoss.
Normally I wouldn't be posting who I think is town, but I don't want to see the discussion of who to lynch on these two, since I think it's a waste of time at the moment.
It's past 4 in the morning here so I'm going to wait to post who I think we should lynch for in the morning. What I do want to post now is who is slipping underneath the radar... Rainmaker has posted twice so far. In his last post he said he had to head to class and that he would post his later on, which he never did. Beorn has only had one post thus far in which he agrees with the general consensus on random lynches. Early on you pick out two people.. 1 of which is confirmed town, the other though lost interest in the game, his replacement I'm thinking is also town. Your first reason for me being mafia, is me defending 2 players that we later found out ended up being the correct decision... Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 08:20 Maverick32x wrote:On March 02 2012 20:36 DimmuKlok wrote:On March 02 2012 20:18 Sufficiency wrote:On March 02 2012 17:59 DimmuKlok wrote:
Sufficiency, while you're here could you explain to me in more detail why you chose OtoshimonoU and gunman103? gutty feelings. Fair enough... I was hoping it was something a little more elaborate, but ok. Despite this complete dodge/slap in the face. You seem okay with taking this as answer. I seem ok with the answer... This is your second reason for me being mafia... I've already stated that was one of my multiple attempts at getting more info out of Sufficiency. My reaction and that face at the end was the face of me coming the realization that Sufficiency wasn't a mastermind, just someone who didn't want to put time into this thread. Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 08:20 Maverick32x wrote:On March 03 2012 03:24 DimmuKlok wrote:On March 03 2012 03:09 Sufficiency wrote:
If I have to choose from the three I listed above, however, I'd probably just lynch beorn. It feels to me that his inactivity is either because he is really scum, or his lack of power (i.e. he is probably vanilla). I really don't think he is a PR of any sort. It feels like a safe lynch to me.
In my opinion, day1 lynch is very difficult to conduct. Without any "hard" evidence (from kills, etc.) and only through talking, any mafia can be just as pro-town as anyone else. I agree. Lets lynch beorn. He has yet to contribute and say who he feels is a good lynch candidate for today. Targeting the lurker, seems safe... however what about sufficiency?! What about him? Am I supposed to be mentioning Sufficiency in all my posts? I've explained multiple times that post was to get Beorn out of hiding and had nothing to do with Sufficiency. Sufficiency just randomly accused beorn, and I took that opportunity to try and get him to start posting. Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 08:20 Maverick32x wrote:On March 03 2012 03:55 DimmuKlok wrote:On March 03 2012 03:33 Rainmaker5 wrote:Ok I'm going to draft up a list and announce my vote real quick. this formatiting will be a bit wonky but I don't have time to really make shit pretty right now. going to link post #s so I don't have to explain where I'm getting information Trapdoor http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=13742776This is just a good post that I feel I can stand behind. Against a no-lynch and wants people to talk. Standard behavior for a good town player. Dimmuclock http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=13743011same shit, for a lynch wants people to discuss. Otoshi~~~ http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=13743011Here's pretty suspcious to me, starts out against a lynch at all, when people say they're for it switches to random lynch. Seems pretty scummy. Up to this point I don't think people had mentioned a random lynch. Gunman Don't really have a read on him b/c he doesn't really seem sure of his own opinion would like to hear more from him but I can't really say that FoSing currently Tiy and fried are on the lynch train- seems good Mav is seems pretty opposed to a random lynch, not to much to say after that Pablos http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=13750765going out of his way to fly off the handle when someone is suspicious, is well suspicious. Also he seems to be supporting random lynch? I'm not really sure Beorn doesn't really seem to have an opinion- no read So I don't really like Pablos's style, but he cleaned up towards the end. Mav and Memtoss are off my radar currenly because even if they're scum they're encouraging posts and moving forward that's going to hurt them. Suff is kinda sketchy- takes attention away from his rampant fingering by putting it on people who didn't react. But I really feel the guy who's generating the most noise is definitely OtoshimonoU. He feels really scummy and even if he's jsut playing poorly is the type of guy that real scum can use to keep deflecting attention. Which I guess is something you can suspect me of doing lol Anyway that's my vote and my analysis. Wish me luck on my Midterm! The only useful thing about this post is your opinion on OtoshimonoU. There is no point in bringing up the names of people that are not on our current suspect list and then not even accuse them of anything. That kind of information is just taking up space. You haven't posted much up until now and that post is looking pretty suspicious to me... ##FoS: Rainmaker5 Again, confirmed townie. Him being a confirmed townie didn't make that post any more useful. I was correct in my suspicion of him. He ended up just being an inactive townie who got mod killed, instead of a mafia unwilling to contribute like I suspected. There is no need for this to be included in your case against me. The fact that it was included should be looked upon as suspicious.Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 08:20 Maverick32x wrote:On March 03 2012 05:06 DimmuKlok wrote:
Beorn, we're still waiting for your case on who to lynch. When you decide to start contributing, please also give me your opinion on Rainmaker and what you think about my read on him. Still nothing on sufficiency... Why would there be anything on Sufficiency? This was posted right after I proposed a lynch on Beorn with Sufficiency! The reason for the post was to pressure Beorn, which I explained here: Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 06:50 DimmuKlok wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Defending Mementoss was simply me trying to get the conversation in a more productive direction and off someone I thought was innocent at the time. Bandwagoning with Sufficiency actually had nothing to do with Sufficiency at all. When Sufficiency posted that he wanted to lynch Beorn, I quickly agreed and threw my vote on him. This was done in order to pressure Beorn out of hiding. In the post I hint at exactly what I want him to do, and that's to "contribute and say who he feels is a good lynch candidate". I suspected him as scum so his response was going to give me a lot of information. I even make another post to put the pressure back on Beorn and get some information out of him here: On March 03 2012 05:06 DimmuKlok wrote:
Beorn, we're still waiting for your case on who to lynch. When you decide to start contributing, please also give me your opinion on Rainmaker and what you think about my read on him. My vote was not initially intended for Beorn, nor did I intend to keep it on him, because I didn't think he would get enough votes before the deadline. I'm changing my vote to Oto, who I originally intended on voting for. I want to state however that we cannot let this continue after today. We will always be more conformable with lynching someone who we have a read on, but we need a way to get lurkers to post. Consider this scenario... mafia without any consequences of not contributing can just chill day after day while everyone kills each other. On Day 2 I think we should seriously consider lynching lurkers, or start conversation on how to get them to post more. You of all people should know this, considering this post was directed at you. Once again, highly suspicious that this made it into your case on me. Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 08:20 Maverick32x wrote:On March 03 2012 06:50 DimmuKlok wrote:On March 03 2012 05:51 Maverick32x wrote:+ Show Spoiler +@Sufficiency- Good posts!! I'm really glad to hear from you!! That being said, I truly am suspecting the following people as the most likely to be mafia at this point- Sufficiency- Its not so much the things you said, but the reactions that I've been gathering from the bottom two. Obviously I suspected you from the start due to your poor posting. But it seems like a lot of the other people were eager to let you get by as "poor town", and you weren't confronted at all. Then all of a sudden you post that you want to get rid of the lurker, and Dim hopes right on board. You've established zero credability in this thread, if anything you were seen as a non-helpful, yet for some reason you're getting bandwagon support..... Dim- You've spent a lot of time defending Mementoss, and bandwagoned with Sufficiency. On March 02 2012 19:25 DimmuKlok wrote:
My thoughts regarding Mementoss and Pablols, I think we have a case of 2 townies accusing each other. Yes Mementoss did misquote Pablols but his posts thus far have given me a town vibe, and a misquote is no reason to lynch someone. Pablols doesn't really have a solid case on him since Mementoss's case was addressed by Pablols, and in my opinion truth except for accusation of Mementoss.
Normally I wouldn't be posting who I think is town, but I don't want to see the discussion of who to lynch on these two, since I think it's a waste of time at the moment. On March 03 2012 03:24 DimmuKlok wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 03:09 Sufficiency wrote:
If I have to choose from the three I listed above, however, I'd probably just lynch beorn. It feels to me that his inactivity is either because he is really scum, or his lack of power (i.e. he is probably vanilla). I really don't think he is a PR of any sort. It feels like a safe lynch to me.
In my opinion, day1 lynch is very difficult to conduct. Without any "hard" evidence (from kills, etc.) and only through talking, any mafia can be just as pro-town as anyone else. I agree. Lets lynch beorn. He has yet to contribute and say who he feels is a good lynch candidate for today. On March 02 2012 07:59 DimmuKlok wrote:
Because some of you are starting to look at Mementoss, I'm going to post my opinion on him quickly and post my scum reads a bit later.
Mementoss's posts thus far seem pro town to me. He's been either giving his opinion on the topic at hand, pointing out inactives, and posting his scum reads.
Even if all his scum picks were wrong, it's still pro town to put it out there. It forces responses from the accused, which brings more information to the table. I think this is highly suspicous behavior. Both players have bounced off each other and defended each other's actions to establish credability. Mementos: On March 02 2012 05:46 Mementoss wrote:
Sufficiency (although trackd00r brings up a point about his sloppy posts)
Not counting Beorn cause I think it might be cause hes a noob and just forgot about the game starting to be honest. But he is in my mind too. Creating excuses for Sufficiency. On March 02 2012 10:37 Mementoss wrote:
@Maverick - I would also like to hear more from Sufficiency, I still have a decently scummy read on him based on his low amount of posting. Content related posters (includes at least 1 post unique opinion with logic and evidence to back it up.)
Mementoss
trackd00r
maverick
dimmuklok --> interested in your opinion of scum.
No unique opinion (bandwagoners) - Little content posts/one liners /derails
gunman
rainman
friedchicken
tiystus
otoshimoU
beornt
Quick to judge - Quick fos, multiple FoS, no evidence to back it up
Pablos FoS ->(trackd00r, mementoss)
Suffiency FoS ->(gunman, OtU)
I honestly was shocked when I saw Dimm in this list. I looked through his filter and did not see a whole lot of "Meaningful posts".. but I guess the bar was set kind of low for this... I think he kept Sufficiency in the bottom since obviously I have been making a scene about him. You later make a huge post about how scummy Sufficiency is, and how you think he is the worst townie ever, or mafia. On March 03 2012 02:57 Mementoss wrote:@Maverick, I still don't see the read on Tiystus personally, but would lvoe to hear more from him. I consider him more of a lurker than anything. If we lynch Sufficiency or OtoshimonoU I think there is a damn good chance one of them is scum, and they are both pretty worthless (so far ) as town. Don't forget OtoshimonoU not responding to you as well Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 12:04 Maverick32x wrote:
Maverick, you might sound very strong in your arguments, but to me it already shows your strange behavior.
@Oto: I would really be interested to know what it is that you mean by that? Its strange that I'm forming logical arguments? I'm trying to accomplish a goal. If you want to punch holes in my reads, by all means go ahead, but just blanket statements to create doubt doesn't seem like its very helpful. I want to get discussions going based off these reads so we can go into Day 1 Lynch with some suspicions and the ability to make an informed decision (as I've stated numerous times)
Not only ignores you but ignores trackd00r. Not only ignores you and trackd00rs question but also mine. About Sufficiency, I think he is town. No newbie mafia would try to catch up so much attention in that way. They'd rather stay more quiet and apparently contribute, which it's kinda working for them now. Beorn1 hasn't posted anything yet. The player I would worry right now is OtoshimonoU. He has been the least contributor (excluding beorn) so far. This is his only post with actual content. Right now the lack of posting is really hurting us seeing different point of views, and to get more of a read on where some people stand. Both sufficiency and OtoshimonoU are good lynches imo, and I just want to make sure we get the majority to get one out and gain some information. My vote right now is committed to [red]OtoshimonoU.[red] Yet you've flipped to Oto, and are actively trying to make me consider Oto, and point to his lack of answering to both myself and Trackd00r- trying to get us to sway our votes. All this being said!!!! I won't vote for mementoss or Dim. They do talk a lot, which would be useful later on if they do end up being Mafia... So I guess that leads me to who I should vote for... I have about 2 hours left!! So I'm going to keep reading through and seeing what people come up with!!! Feel free to respond Sufficiency, Dim and Mementoss- I'd like to hear a counter to what I've posted, since I'm trying to stay open-minded. Defending Mementoss was simply me trying to get the conversation in a more productive direction and off someone I thought was innocent at the time. Bandwagoning with Sufficiency actually had nothing to do with Sufficiency at all. When Sufficiency posted that he wanted to lynch Beorn, I quickly agreed and threw my vote on him. This was done in order to pressure Beorn out of hiding. In the post I hint at exactly what I want him to do, and that's to "contribute and say who he feels is a good lynch candidate". I suspected him as scum so his response was going to give me a lot of information. I even make another post to put the pressure back on Beorn and get some information out of him here: On March 03 2012 05:06 DimmuKlok wrote:
Beorn, we're still waiting for your case on who to lynch. When you decide to start contributing, please also give me your opinion on Rainmaker and what you think about my read on him. My vote was not initially intended for Beorn, nor did I intend to keep it on him, because I didn't think he would get enough votes before the deadline. I'm changing my vote to Oto, who I originally intended on voting for. I want to state however that we cannot let this continue after today. We will always be more conformable with lynching someone who we have a read on, but we need a way to get lurkers to post. Consider this scenario... mafia without any consequences of not contributing can just chill day after day while everyone kills each other. On Day 2 I think we should seriously consider lynching lurkers, or start conversation on how to get them to post more. Kind of a strange post.. seemingly distancing yourself from sufficiency since you're starting to worry that people are connecting you... You suspect Beorn of lurking and being scum.. but again.. no mention of sufficiency... Um, what? This is the post that was describing my bandwagoning with Sufficiency and our so called "connection" you claim we have. "No mention of Sufficiency", not sure what you mean by this. There is no reason for me to be randomly accusing him in that post. Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 08:20 Maverick32x wrote:On March 03 2012 07:18 DimmuKlok wrote:
I'm somewhat lost when it comes to Sufficiency. I can't tell if he's smart and trying to get reactions out of people with his posts, or one of the many other things I've considered. If people are interested I can make a more detailed case on my opinion of him, but even I'm not too confident in my read on him. This NEVER happens. Yes, actually it did. Nobody asked for it until willz, and when he did I answered his question about beorn, along with my read on Sufficiency in the next post. As I stated above, because of his inactivity it was hard to have a good case on him: Show nested quote +On March 08 2012 16:20 DimmuKlok wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 08 2012 15:14 Maverick32x wrote:
I really think we are pressuring the wrong guy if we are targeting Dim.... I completely agree with Trackd00r that we need to target one of those 3 lurkers.
Gunman, pablols or sufficiency... I would say the order that makes the most sense is the one I just listed... if we have a DT remaining, they should investigate sufficiency and hope hes just a regular mafia so we can set up a hit on the following day (assuming we get this next lynch correct)
My vote right now is for Gunman. I'm thinking that we are pointing fingers at each other while Mafia just slide into the background.... It seems like the remaining town are in a frenzy to try to stay alive and solve this... while the remaining people are not involved in this at all.... This is my assumption too. Of the three I'm thinking Gunman is the most likely candidate, but it's hard to say with them being so inactive in the late game. I have to look into this further before I vote. I would say Sufficiency is the least likely to be mafia, but that's only if I can make the assumption that this early posts were to get reads on their reactions, and not just bad play. The posts I'm referencing: On March 01 2012 13:15 Sufficiency wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 01 2012 13:10 trackd00r wrote:
Suffciency, If you are willing to random lynch anyone, which player it would be? I hardly see a point of RL someone later on this day because we already might have better reads in that moment. If you want to take this action, throw a name by now. I don't really like the idea though.
Going to bed now. See you in about 9 hours. I actually FoS gunman103 right now for suggesting no RL. On March 01 2012 13:16 Sufficiency wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
Oh great. Now he is defensive about it.
Anyway, since it's not the time to vote yet, we might as well wait until everyone talked a few lines.
On March 02 2012 12:45 Sufficiency wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
I say we lynch OtoshimonoU or gunman103
Later, I tried to confirm which it was, and sadly his answer was: On March 02 2012 20:18 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 17:59 DimmuKlok wrote:
Sufficiency, while you're here could you explain to me in more detail why you chose OtoshimonoU and gunman103? gutty feelings. Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 08:20 Maverick32x wrote:On March 05 2012 08:27 DimmuKlok wrote:
GG Mementoss, it's been fun.
OtoshimonoU, what is your read on Sufficiency? Also, who is your top scum read right now and why? It honestly sounds like you're trying to figure out who's the biggest threat in the town... That post is simply me trying to get more information out of Oto. How you came to that conclusion and felt it was worth including in your list of reasons I'm mafia, is beyond me. Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 08:20 Maverick32x wrote:On March 07 2012 01:55 DimmuKlok wrote:On March 07 2012 00:46 blubbdavid wrote:
Oh shoot, didn't think about the possibility of a Godfather.
Dimmu's now randomly pointed against Willz, that's confusing. Could you please elaborate more why Willz looks suspicious?
And I feel too that a DT case against Rain would be wasted. Even if Rain returned town, how would it be helpful? "Hey look guys, we have a townie here, but one who doesn't contibute." I don't see how a DT case on Rain is wasted, or even less effective than a DT case on anyone else. Everyone has the same chance of being mafia, statistically, and Rain is the most likely to come up as Mafia in my opinion. If you investigate anyone and they turn up town, what does that tell you? Nothing, because it could be wrong, and even if it's right then you just have a confirmed town player who will continue to do what they did before that. My opinion of Willz is after this. Possibly directing the DT towards a town? If I was mafia, why would I care if a DT case went down on Rain? We now know he was a inactive towny, which I would have known at the time if i was mafia. Another massive slip Maverick. Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 08:20 Maverick32x wrote:On March 07 2012 03:03 DimmuKlok wrote:Why I called out Willz: On March 04 2012 09:11 willz22912 wrote:
For now, based on our last vote counts, we can still vote OtoshimonoU off since he hasn't been modkilled or replaced and hasn't defended himself against the claims presented towards him. Refute any of my points if inconsistent, I'm still new and may be missing logic somewhere.
##Vote OtoshimonoU
Willz was the first person to vote for Oto. In this post he states clearly that he's completely ok with the current case on Oto and willing to lynch him. He even throws in a scapegoat for funzies(He's new). On March 05 2012 04:19 willz22912 wrote:
My opinion on OtoshimonoU: The active players were already pushing for OtoshimonoU's lynch prior to the replacements, with mementoss being targetted and flipping green, it doesn't make sense to me that Mafia would accept OtoshimonoU getting lynched in response unless he didn't want to play anymore, I would like to hear from him to see if he is actually still going to be active before I throw my vote. It feels like a mislynch to me because OtoshimonoU hasn't given much in the way for defense, it seems more apathetic than really bad scum play. As quoted, blubbdavid's post suggests that he is more of a bandwagoner than anything truly malicious, and everyone that is bandwagoning in response on him seems like it is being directed by one of the active mafia posters posing as town. Now I am new to Mafia, but if everyone is already against you, how can you defend yourself without incurring claims of OMGUS?...
...Final opinion: Give time for the accused to respond, but otherwise, I'm voting Sufficiency.
He then states here, as confusingly as possible, that he thinks lynching Oto would be a mislynch. Later in the post saying he's more ok with a Sufficiency lynch than Oto, because of Blubbdavids post. On March 05 2012 04:23 willz22912 wrote:
Just saw that OtoshimonoU just voted for himself, I think he's just giving up at this point because it's too hard to defend yourself if everyone already is on you. If he is that uninterested in the game, lynching him now seems really pointless and won't give any information. He's now sure that Oto is town and lynching him will give no information. I bolded it for importance. If Oto was mafia, obviously him getting lynched would give us plenty of information. All of these point of views are not incriminating yet, but important to keep in mind when you read this: On March 06 2012 08:12 willz22912 wrote:
Okay, took a look at the responses.
We definitely have to get a successful lynch off on someone today otherwise mafia gets another free kill and we're still clueless. My top suspect so far is still Sufficiency, he still hasn't contributed anything meaningful and hasn't responded to any of the new accusations brought upon him. The other suspects proposed are OtoshimonoU and Rainmaker because he hasn't been active.
I'm inclined to just leave OtoshimonoU alone for another day and vote someone else like Sufficiency or Rainmaker, but you guys are seriously pushing for OtoshimonoU...
I am 90% confident that if we do decide to lynch OtoshimonoU he will flip green making the situation completely muddled. Better to get rid of someone who is barely active than a ridiculously easy target. If mafia were really pushing for his lynch than as stated, why has the vote been so hard to pull off? 3 Mafia + bandwagoning townies would have made it easy, the most likely reasoning is that we had too many lurkers fail to vote. That doesn't mean the Mafia are targetting him, that means that they are most likely content to just let us go after a mis-lynch on our own without trying to influence us too much.
That being said, I will be willing to switch to the OtoshimonoU vote if people are dead set on it, and we need my vote. I will state for the record that I am against this, but if it's a choice between a no-lynch and OtoshimonoU then we have no choice, and can try and gain information from it. This is where he begins to try to prove his innocence, while still getting rid of Oto. When you read this post, it's made very clear to you that he thinks Oto is green. I'd go even further to say that he knows that he's green. But alas, "That being said, I will be willing to switch to the OtoshimonoU vote if people are dead set on it, and we need my vote. I will state for the record that I am against this, but if it's a choice between a no-lynch and OtoshimonoU then we have no choice, and can try and gain information from it." Yea, lets get that information out of him that you said there wasn't any of... On March 06 2012 08:15 willz22912 wrote:
Adding on/clarifying for my last sentence. If it's a choice between a no-lynch and OtoshimonoU again, then yeah we may as well see what his flipping will give us for information.
I guess I'll just switch my vote to OtoshimonoU now to make sure it goes through, but I still think it's a mistake. This post was made immediately after. He has the inherent feeling that he needs to defend his choice without anyone accusing him. Remember, it's for the information. On March 06 2012 09:22 willz22912 wrote:On March 06 2012 08:36 Maverick32x wrote:
I know I say 'significantly' like its a huge amount of people, but I really think that it clears both sufficiency (who I'm HIGHLY suspicious of, and burbbles) Which is a larger step than we've taken so far... and I'm sure if we look at the filters we may be able to pull some conclusions as well... one of the things that would confuse me if he flipped town.. why killl Mementoss? Either way, we'll have some answers in a couple hours...
See this is what bugs me. It really doesn't clear anyone. Sufficiency is currently voting for a no lynch and Sbrubbles is voting Rainmaker. How is OtoshimonoU flipping green going to clear them when if they were Mafia, they would know if OtoshimonoU is town and if we have enough votes without Mafia pitching in to get rid of him. We have multiple people who were already dead set on OtoshimonoU, and then we have a couple others (myself included) who are willing to switch our votes to make sure a lynch 100% goes through. Now we have at least 3 people who are not voting OtoshimonoU. If we didn't have the swing votes, the lynch wouldn't go through AGAIN. This is clearly what the Mafia wants, us to be indecisive and confused while we keep losing key members during the night. If we mis-lynch we mis-lynch, but don't overstate how much information we're going to get. I already stated my opinion on Mementoss being targetted earlier as well, I think it was more he was the most active poster than for anyone in particular he had suspicions on. This post is the most telling. He tells everyone what he knew all along. Oto flipping green will not give information. He also knows that Oto is going to flip green, and that explains all the effort he put in to make sure that he would not be a suspect after his death. His last 3 posts were shortly before the lynch, and all pushed the same message. Oto being lynched was the perfect way for Willz to look innocent and to stay out of the light. It was too suspicious not to bring up. After thinking about it, a DT check on Willz wouldn't be too bad of an idea either. Why you called out Willz- to protect Sufficiency? Pretty much switching the pressure.. Funny you say that now. You initial response was "Dim... I like that post.. a lot... ". Sounds like a lot of bandwagoning to me. It's obvious you're making wild assumptions. Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 08:20 Maverick32x wrote:On March 08 2012 16:20 DimmuKlok wrote:On March 08 2012 15:14 Maverick32x wrote:
I really think we are pressuring the wrong guy if we are targeting Dim.... I completely agree with Trackd00r that we need to target one of those 3 lurkers.
Gunman, pablols or sufficiency... I would say the order that makes the most sense is the one I just listed... if we have a DT remaining, they should investigate sufficiency and hope hes just a regular mafia so we can set up a hit on the following day (assuming we get this next lynch correct)
My vote right now is for Gunman. I'm thinking that we are pointing fingers at each other while Mafia just slide into the background.... It seems like the remaining town are in a frenzy to try to stay alive and solve this... while the remaining people are not involved in this at all.... This is my assumption too. Of the three I'm thinking Gunman is the most likely candidate, but it's hard to say with them being so inactive in the late game. I have to look into this further before I vote. I would say Sufficiency is the least likely to be mafia, but that's only if I can make the assumption that this early posts were to get reads on their reactions, and not just bad play. The posts I'm referencing: On March 01 2012 13:15 Sufficiency wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 01 2012 13:10 trackd00r wrote:
Suffciency, If you are willing to random lynch anyone, which player it would be? I hardly see a point of RL someone later on this day because we already might have better reads in that moment. If you want to take this action, throw a name by now. I don't really like the idea though.
Going to bed now. See you in about 9 hours. I actually FoS gunman103 right now for suggesting no RL. On March 01 2012 13:16 Sufficiency wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
Oh great. Now he is defensive about it.
Anyway, since it's not the time to vote yet, we might as well wait until everyone talked a few lines.
On March 02 2012 12:45 Sufficiency wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
I say we lynch OtoshimonoU or gunman103
Later, I tried to confirm which it was, and sadly his answer was: On March 02 2012 20:18 Sufficiency wrote:On March 02 2012 17:59 DimmuKlok wrote:
Sufficiency, while you're here could you explain to me in more detail why you chose OtoshimonoU and gunman103? gutty feelings. You defend sufficiency some more.... That was not a defense of Sufficiency. I was giving my read on him at the time and I even said in the post that I would only consider him town if his early posts were to generate reactions and responses, which he never said was the case. Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 08:20 Maverick32x wrote:On March 09 2012 09:46 DimmuKlok wrote:
I went with Gunman. Obviously it's our only option at this point. Defending would be too obvious..... Once again you're just making the assumption I'm mafia. Saying "defending would be too obvious" isn't going to prove anything. How is this a reason I'm mafia? Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 08:20 Maverick32x wrote:
SO there are a couple examples of the 'connection'... I'm all for going for sufficiency first though.. so you still got time~
Lastly, who could the other 2 mafia be if not Sufficiency and Dim? Really try to answer that, and look at the connection between confirmed town and the 1 mafia that we have left.... There is a pattern of communication here- everyone left here had sufficiency in their sights at some point in the game... except Dim....
How bout you, buddy? With how many slips you made in that post, it's obvious. I urge everyone to go through Mavericks filter and see for yourself. ##FoS: Maverick32x This is my point of view while reading the thread. You said you still suspected Sufficiency. Maverick still suspected Sufficiency. You now suspect Maverick. You are trying to convince other town to vote for you. By the time I came into this thread and read up tonight, you had declared your vote for Maverick and you were 100% confident. I am asking for clarification since we still have time and there is no need to rush, and you use this to justify calling me Mafia? The fact that I was willing to push a Sufficiency lynch that you yourself agreed with not more than a day ago? It all comes to blubb in the tiebreaker and who he believes I guess. Or hell, I'll even listen to Sufficiency and see his reasons.
It's not hard to understand. Mavericks case on me made it obvious he was mafia. A simple look through his filter is all it takes to confirm the suspicion. With that knowledge it was easy to see that the push to lynch Sufficiency was something that was going to cost us the game.
Looking at Sufficiency's posts, you can't be clear if he is a bad town or mafia. Either way, he's inactive. What makes it a dead give away is Mavericks eagerness to lynch him. Even with me being just as likely as a suspect in his eyes, he's willing to wait because the Sufficiency lynch was easier at the time.
When you posted with the exact same intentions, it was too obvious.
Blubb and Sufficiency, please read everything I've posted and post back.
This is all I'm going to have time for tonight, but I'll be back in the morning.
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On March 11 2012 14:01 DimmuKlok wrote:
It wasn't calling me out that made it obvious. It wasn't even defending Maverick. What sold the deal was that you, along with Maverick, wanted to push the Sufficiency lynch. Maverick should be considered confirmed mafia after the reply I made about him. His focus first and foremost was a Sufficiency lynch. This made it obvious that he was town. The only options was you or Blubb. I had suspected that it was you after going through your filter, but I knew one of you would slip.
Blubb, go through Mavericks and Willz filters and see their relations to eachother and gunman. You'll see it.
On March 01 2012 13:48 DimmuKlok wrote:
We shouldn't need to worry about a RL and I don't see the point in discussing one. Even if we don't have a solid case on someone after the first day, we would be better off lynching a lurker than someone at random. Mafia would love to not have to contribute.
Those are your words. Yet Sufficiency literally hasn't contributed at all.. and somehow wanting to vote him off his considered "confirmed mafia?" Give me a break... you're falling all over yourself right now!!!
And whats my relationship to gunman? The fact that I was the first person who committed to Gunman's vote? I don't see how you can say otherwise when its clear that I was the person that made that shift.. in essence... SAVING you Dim.....
Now lets take a bit of a deeper look into Mafia's reasons for lynching trackd00r.... It was clear that he had already been posting negatively about Dim.. he had come up with a large list of reasons why he was mafia.... Perhaps this was an attempt to keep Dim safe from his major opposition?
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First off, it was ME who pushed on gunman first, please don't forget that Mav.
Ok Dimmu, you say that by pushing Suffiency, Mav makes himself obvious as scum. Why that? That's only the case if you know whether Suff is townie. Why is pushing against a lurking, inactive player an obvious sign for scum? I am doing it myself too.
And I looked through Mav's filter again, and apart from some false assumption (*cough* at the beginning of my post), his posting is very stable, contrary to your's where you FOSed willz, and now Mav. And are you additionally assuming that Suff is scum too? Who of these three players would you say is town? Could you please tell me? Hmm?
You say that there is an obvious connection between them and gunman? While they both somehow bandwagoned on gunman, I don't see any defense in regard to gunman. Now please tell me where this connection is. I don't see a connection. But I see a connection between you and gunman, as pointed out from you and the others.
The case you have on Mav is ridiculous. If you had played a bit better, you would have stayed on willz. Atm Mav has his vote on Suff which is a good sign, but imo we should get rid of the more manipulating scum first.
I'll leave my vote on you, Dimmu, till you can satisfyingly answer the questions I stressed out.
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EBWOP:
But I see a connection between you and gunman, as pointed out from you and the others.
Should be
But I see a connection between you and gunman, as pointed out from the others.
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On March 12 2012 05:11 blubbdavid wrote:
First off, it was ME who pushed on gunman first, please don't forget that Mav.
Ok Dimmu, you say that by pushing Suffiency, Mav makes himself obvious as scum. Why that? That's only the case if you know whether Suff is townie. Why is pushing against a lurking, inactive player an obvious sign for scum? I am doing it myself too.
And I looked through Mav's filter again, and apart from some false assumption (*cough* at the beginning of my post), his posting is very stable, contrary to your's where you FOSed willz, and now Mav. And are you additionally assuming that Suff is scum too? Who of these three players would you say is town? Could you please tell me? Hmm?
You say that there is an obvious connection between them and gunman? While they both somehow bandwagoned on gunman, I don't see any defense in regard to gunman. Now please tell me where this connection is. I don't see a connection. But I see a connection between you and gunman, as pointed out from you and the others.
The case you have on Mav is ridiculous. If you had played a bit better, you would have stayed on willz. Atm Mav has his vote on Suff which is a good sign, but imo we should get rid of the more manipulating scum first.
I'll leave my vote on you, Dimmu, till you can satisfyingly answer the questions I stressed out.
Uhg, I'm not saying pushing Sufficiency makes Mav obvious scum... I'm saying this:
On March 11 2012 14:01 DimmuKlok wrote:
It wasn't calling me out that made it obvious. It wasn't even defending Maverick. What sold the deal was that you, along with Maverick, wanted to push the Sufficiency lynch. Maverick should be considered confirmed mafia after the reply I made about him. His focus first and foremost was a Sufficiency lynch. This made it obvious that he (Sufficiency) was town. The only options was you or Blubb. I had suspected that it was you after going through your filter, but I knew one of you would slip.
Blubb, go through Mavericks and Willz filters and see their relations to eachother and gunman. You'll see it.
And this:On March 11 2012 17:26 DimmuKlok wrote:
It's not hard to understand. Mavericks case on me made it obvious he was mafia. A simple look through his filter is all it takes to confirm the suspicion. With that knowledge it was easy to see that the push to lynch Sufficiency was something that was going to cost us the game.
What connection between me and gunman that they pointed out are you referring to? They've been talking about a connection between me and Sufficiency...
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Suff of the 3 is the town player. I'm getting this from my read of Maverick. I don't know how I can say this more clear.
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Ok, sry, I meant that they were pointing out on a connection between Suff and you, while you were pointing on their alleged connection to gunman.
The connection between Suff and you:
On March 02 2012 20:36 DimmuKlok wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 20:18 Sufficiency wrote:On March 02 2012 17:59 DimmuKlok wrote:
Sufficiency, while you're here could you explain to me in more detail why you chose OtoshimonoU and gunman103? gutty feelings. Fair enough... I was hoping it was something a little more elaborate, but ok.
This was before you both jumped both on Beorn. You jumped BOTH oN him after this "harmless" little conversation.
Now you are suspecting both willz and Mav, saying that Suff is the most townie player of them all. Regardless of his real alignment, even a blind man could see that he is not acting townlike.
Atm you act like desperate scum, knowing that it could end any moment.
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MMmmm, I disagree. I'd say I'm acting like a town player that solved the puzzle.
Explain this post please:On March 03 2012 07:18 DimmuKlok wrote:
I'm somewhat lost when it comes to Sufficiency. I can't tell if he's smart and trying to get reactions out of people with his posts, or one of the many other things I've considered. If people are interested I can make a more detailed case on my opinion of him, but even I'm not too confident in my read on him.
Why would I be so willing with posting my read on Sufficiency so early in the game, un provoked, if he and I were both mafia? It brought attention where, if we were both mafia, shouldn't be brought. Anything I say about him would eventually come back to hurt me. And when asked, I gave my honest read on him, and my explanation of using Sufficiency to pressure Beorn into posting.
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But you didn't post any read.. in fact you are trying to instill doubt with that post right there.... Despite the fact that all he has done all game is lurk.. some how he's "smart"....
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How is he smart? This post was made early. At the time he was getting everyone worked up with his posting. This can be pro town because it can give you reads. Obviously we can assume now it was just bad play, but at the time it was a possibility.
I posted that read, once it was requested, as stated I would. We can go in circles all day.
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Sufficiency, please say something.
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around 14 hours left, hype hype
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It's not hard to understand. Mavericks case on me made it obvious he was mafia. A simple look through his filter is all it takes to confirm the suspicion. With that knowledge it was easy to see that the push to lynch Sufficiency was something that was going to cost us the game.
Looking at Sufficiency's posts, you can't be clear if he is a bad town or mafia. Either way, he's inactive. What makes it a dead give away is Mavericks eagerness to lynch him. Even with me being just as likely as a suspect in his eyes, he's willing to wait because the Sufficiency lynch was easier at the time.
When you posted with the exact same intentions, it was too obvious.
Blubb and Sufficiency, please read everything I've posted and post back.
This is all I'm going to have time for tonight, but I'll be back in the morning.
Fine, even assuming your assumptions about Maverick are true, why is anyone going along with Sufficiency first whom I suspected more than OtoshimonoU when they were the two likely suspects = Mafia behavior? Blubbdavid( who we both agree with is town) has commented that even he agrees with the case on Sufficiency as well.
You also state here: "Looking at Sufficiency's posts, you can't be clear if he is a bad town or mafia." This is the exact same reasoning we lynched OtoshimonoU, we didn't know any better that early in the game if he was bad town or mafia. Sufficiency exhibited the exact same behavior and has hardly been present in any discussion, but now you're willing to believe in him being town late game? You were perfectly fine with lynching OtoshimonoU, but now you leap to defend Sufficiency, who isn't even active enough to contribute?
Myself, Blubbdavid and Maverick have all made various posts detailing how we were against Sufficiency because of his behavior. You have agreed with this up until now, I have quoted a post you made here that you still haven't made any comment on:
On March 10 2012 07:59 DimmuKlok wrote:
I'm assuming Sufficiency is one of the mafia that we have left. I'm less confident with going with someone else at the time.
You only change your opinion after Maverick questions you, and you lump me into it based on your previous case of me + the fact that I was still willing to push sufficiency? EVEN IF YOU ARE RIGHT ABOUT MAVERICK, I asked if you still agreed with the case on Sufficiency, because in that case we should still push for that lynch and sort out the last mafia with that information. I would have been willing to hear you out regarding Maverick if you made a better case and you did not deflect my questions about your views on Sufficiency. I was asking clarification, you used that post to justify lumping me with Maverick. In your spat with Maverick before I made that post, you also posted this: On March 10 2012 13:42 DimmuKlok wrote:
What makes you think I know? I'm sure they will reveal themselves eventually. Probably in a similar fashion.
So you were setting up anyone who was going to question you with this post. This is right after you make your case against Maverick, but no one is allowed to punch holes in it? No one is allowed to comment on the suddeness of this change when you have consistently been against Sufficiency? It's either your way or Mafia?
If you have one agreed on suspect, and still have 1 more Mafia to find, and you claim to find that Mafia, why not go for the agreed on suspect first? How is that un-townlike behavior? It is still removing a Mafia if we are correct, and all evidence points against Sufficiency. You still have to convince the rest of the town to your opinion
You made the radical switch, claiming this as you "solving the puzzle". Why is this town behavior? Did you not agree with Sufficiency's case, then why keep posting that you do? We keep pointing to your "connection" with Sufficiency. The fact is, he hasn't posted enough to justify any defense of him. I tried with OtoshimonoU but still couldn't convince anyone to switch, how is this now any different? How are you willing to suggest Sufficiency is town when he hasn't posted anything worth defending. Where is his town behavior, where is his opinions on the rest of us, who does he think is Mafia? None of that exists. It could likely be Sufficiency is really town and we force a mis-lynch, but it also equally likely that Sufficiency is Mafia and we keep going, but like OtoshimonoU, we won't know until we lynch him. Unless you have inside information like being our DT or being Mafia, those are the only two explanations to really "know" what alignment he really is.
And this final quote from you is what really annoys me: On March 10 2012 07:18 DimmuKlok wrote:
Please vote for me if you think I'm mafia. If you're all willing to throw the game away on such a stupid idea, then I'm not going to put in the effort to help this town.
This is still Mafia, this is still a my-lo situation, we still don't have concrete reads unless one of us is the DT, and he hasn't claimed. But no we can't suspect you because we would throw the game away because of your arrogant behavior. You aren't going to single handedly win this game even if you made all the correct reads if you can't convince others to support you by being supremely arrogant.
Even now though DimmuKlok, I'm willing to hold off on voting against you, because I'm trying to be objective and not use my previous angry feelings towards you. So make your case to sway my vote, I'll be back in 12 hours and I will decide then.
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I'd have to have REALLY compelling evidence to not vote sufficiency.. the way I see it- if sufficiency is mafia, then we've won the game..
Lets play out a couple scenarios-
We vote out Sufficiency who is Mafia- Dim is the clear next target based off everything we have said, and his reaction so far.
We vote out Willz who is Mafia- Well I guess I'd be the logical next target, and we lose, thought it could still be sufficiency or Blubbz....
We vote out Blubbz who is mafia- Well, it could be any of the remainders really...
We vote out Dim who is mafia- This leaves Sufficiency or Blubbz, since either of them COULD be mafia....
And I guess for the fun of it, I get voted out and we lose.
Obviously any person we vote out and we're wrong about.. we will lose.
This is something that worries me however.. a lot.. and I was thinking about this before I went to bed...
I made my read BEFORE the night ended... yet I'm still alive and trackd00r was killed... Is it possible that I was left alive so that I would be able to mislead the town into lynching Sufficiency/Dim? Or would my death be seen as a confirmation of my theory, so I couldn't be killed or else the mafia would be sure to lose?
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There are five possibilities why you are still alive, Mavz:
1. You are scum
2. They want to mislead us.
3. They don't see a threat in you.
4. Your death undermines our theories.
5. You are scum
Note how the first and the last option are alike. Maybe I should stop assuming that you are town and start to look at you from a neutral point of view.
The second option: I am against Suff and Dimmu too, as was trackdoor. Which leads me to the third option: trackdoor argued much stronger than you in the last round, suspecting me and Dimmu. The fourth option... honestly I don't know about that one.
In your opinion, lynching Suff is the safest way? Well, I think that Dimmu is mafia, and Suff close second. If you can convince me, I will change my vote to Suff.
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EPT
