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Mattchew is helping me co-host this game. Any questions can be directed towards him or myself.
There are no coaches for this game.
Mr. Wiggles Mini Mafia II + Show Spoiler [Important Posts] +
Introduction: Mafia is an educated guessing game of epic proportions. The objective of the game is to lynch or kill all mafia members before they outnumber the rest of the town. It's much like a game of poker because mafia members are also part of the town during the day and may manipulate the vote to their liking. If the mafia at any time outnumber or equal the townspeople, they win. The town's goal is to lynch all the members of the mafia.
The game is typically very active, so the thread will get big quickly. However, it is essential to read the thread to play the game. If you do not have the time or patience to read the whole thread, do not play. I will not compensate for ignorance.
Rules: Cheating: Cheating includes (but is not limited to): 1. Posting after death. You may have one polite goodbye post, but it may not contain any potentially game-changing information. 2. Ruining the game by doing something like hand out your mafia's member list to the town. 3. Logging on to someone else's account to get their role or looking over someone's shoulder to get their role. 4. Comparing role PM times to determine roles. 5. Posting screenshots of your inbox. 6. Posting or sharing any PM you receive from a host. 7. Getting yourself modkilled to help your team. Your non-majority-decided death may not be used as a bargaining chip. 8. Signing up more than once using smurf accounts. 9. Betting items outside of the game in exchange for in-game benefits. 10. Sharing accounts with other players unless cleared by the host in advance. Otherwise, only you may post on your account. 11. Breadcrumbing the specific phrasing of your role PM. Do not compare the phrasing in your role PM to prove your alignment. You can claim the abilities you have, but you can't use the specific phrasing of your role PM. Cheating is not tolerated here. The punishment will be severe.
Posting: Mod Font: This is mod font. It is reserved for moderators. Please do not use it.
Question Font: This is question font. Use it to ask the moderators questions about the rules. Please do us a favor and read the rules before you ask anything.
Activity: You must post in this thread once per day/night cycle and vote every day while you are alive. If you fail to do so, you will be modkilled.
Smurfs:
On April 26 2011 13:22 mikeymoo wrote: Smurfs must PM the host because TL doesn't allow multiple accounts otherwise. If the host is unaware of smurfs, you (and/or your smurf) can be banned for having multiple accounts.
Spam: Spam is not tolerated, nor is any off-topic material. Do not discuss Proleague here. Do not talk about Starcraft II here. Play Mafia here.
Editing: Editing is not allowed for any reason. Editing will result in a warning. After that, you will be modkilled. This is the one part of the site where it is okay to be double posting, even triple-posting. While I ask for everybody to post as concisely as possible, post again if you have to edit anything.
Inappropriate posts: If you want to post something insulting or inappropriate and know the TL mods would have a problem with it elsewhere, don't post it here. If you do, a host will warn you or modkill you and request that you be banned from future games. The hosts have the final say on what is inappropriate. If you do not like how someone is talking to you, please PM a host, Flamewheel, or GMarshal before involving the TL staff. If you are unsatisfied with how the situation is resolved, then you can appeal to the TL staff normally.
Reporting posts: The report button is a nice feature for regular TL, but not for this forum. We prefer to deal with things in house if possible to avoid confusion among the TL staff. If you have a problem with how someone is posting, talk to the host, co-host, Flamewheel, or GMarshal before using your report button. Please do not use your report button for anything other than inappropriate posts which you feel are not being dealt with adequately.
Ban discussions: Please wait until this game is over to talk about modkills and bans resulting from this game.
Play to win. This means you play your best to help your team win while you are alive and in the game. However, this does not mean that you should try to win by being a jerk to the other players so they all want to quit playing.
This also means that you cannot leave the game without a good reason without a ban. These situations will be dealt with on a case by case basis. PM your host if you need to leave the game.
You have been warned.
Voting rules: 1. Voting is done in this thread. Please keep votes there, and only vote there. Do not PM me your vote. 2. Please vote in the following format: ##Vote Qatol. Votes not done in the correct fashion will not be counted. I will update vote counts whenever I get the chance. 3. No conditional voting. 4. You may vote for yourself. You may not vote for anyone dead or outside the game. 5. In the event of a tie the person with the most votes first wins (or loses). 6. Voting is mandatory. You may NOT abstain.
Signups: This game is open to anyone. Signups will remain open until all 14 spots have been filled.
Game-specific rules: Modkills: This game follows the TL Mafia Ban List. If you are modkilled, your punishment will go beyond being eliminated from this game. Please refer to it for questions about your punishment. If you want to use this game to sit out your ban, please PM Flamewheel or post in the Ban List.
Replacements This game uses replacements. Replacements will be made in the game until the end of day 1. If a player is modkilled during the designated time, then they will be replaced by a player on the replacement list.
Clues: There are no clues.
PMs PMs are not allowed in this game.
Time Cycle: This game will follow a 24 hour night/48 hour day cycle. In case I am not able to post around deadline, any votes after the 48 hour mark will not count and the game will be put on halt until the night post is up. Currently the deadline is UNDETERMINED, but that is subject to change. Actions/votes will be accepted up to and including the posted time, but not after.
Credits: Thanks to anyone who has ever hosted a game. This list grows ever longer. Thanks to everyone who helped balance this game.
If you have not read all the rules, go back and do so. I will not compensate for ignorance!
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This is a semi-open setup. Possible roles will be revealed, but role counts will remain hidden. Roles will be revealed on death.
Possible Mafia Roles:
Goon: You are a Goon! Your only powers are you voice and your vote! Use them wisely!
Vigilante: You are a Vigilante! Once per game, starting night 1, you may send in a night hit.
Roleblocker: You are a Roleblocker! Each night you may choose one target of your choice to block. That player will not be able to perform any actions for the night. Your target will be informed they were roleblocked. Roleblocks do not block passive abilities.
Medic: You are a Medic! Each night you may choose to protect one player from a night hit! You may not protect yourself. You will be notified if you successfully protect your target.
Possible Town Roles:
Townie: You are a Townie! Your only powers are your voice and your vote! Use them wisely!
Medic: You are a Medic! Each night you may choose to protect one player from a night hit! You may not protect yourself. You will be notified if you successfully protect your target.
Vigilante: You are a Vigilante! Once per game, starting night 1, you may send in a night hit.
Veteran: You are a Veteran! You have one extra night life.
Tracker: You are a Tracker! Each night, you may choose one player to follow, and learn who they visited that night!
Watcher: You are a Watcher! Each night, you may choose one player to watch, and learn who visited them that night!
Possible Third-Party Roles:
Serial Killer: You are a Serial Killer! Each night, starting night 1, you may send in a night hit. In addition, you have one extra night life.
Win Conditions:
Town win condition:
You win when all Anti-Town forces are eliminated.
Mafia Win Condition:
You win when all other factions are eliminated, or nothing can stop this from happening.
Third Party Win Condition:
You win when all other players are eliminated.
Provisional Win Conditions:
Any possible kingmaker scenarios will be left to play out. In the event that all players are killed, or only two players are left at the start of a Day cycle, the game will end, with win priority going:
Third Party > Mafia > Town
Voting:
This game uses plurality lynch. The person with the highest number of votes at the end of the day cycle will be lynched. If two players are tied for the most votes, the first person to receive that number of votes will be lynched. Voting is done in this thread.
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Player List: 1. Jackal58 Townie killed night 2 2. Paperscraps Vigilante killed night 3 3. Bluelightz 4. Probulous 5. Snarfs 6. rgTheSchworz Townie killed night 1 7. Misder Townie lynched day 1 8. Pandain Townie killed night 3 9. Palmar Watcher killed night 2 10. Sandroba Goon lynched day 2 11. TheToast 12. Adam4167 Townie lynched day 3 13. A Killer Cuppa Tea 14. deconduo
6/14 Players Alive
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There will be sailor talk.
1. Jackal58 2. Paperscraps 3. Bluelightz 4. Probulous 5. Snarfs 6. rgTheSchworz 7. Misder 8. Pandain 9. Palmer 10. sandroba 11. TheToast 12. Adam4167 13. A Killer Cuppa Tea 14. deconduo
On February 27 2012 06:06 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2012 07:28 GMarshal wrote: Are vets notified if they lose their extra life?
Vigi shots refunded if stacked with scum shots? Yes and yes.
Player list updated. On March 05 2012 02:35 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2012 00:57 deconduo wrote: What is the mafia KP formula?
Did anyone take a hit last night? If not, its not unreasonable to think that rg was hit twice. I highly doubt that the anti-town KP is only 1. While mafia doublestacking RG is unlikely, its possible both SK and mafia went after him independently.
However until I hear ACKT come up with an explanation,
##Vote A Killer Cup of Tea The KP formula is hidden
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United States22154 Posts
there are no mafia goons?
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On February 25 2012 12:59 GMarshal wrote: there are no mafia goons? What are you talking about?
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/IN. Haven't played in a mini for a while Should be fun.
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On February 25 2012 13:03 Mr. Wiggles wrote:What are you talking about? Mods can see posts before the edit, you know
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/IN.
Good old classic setup!
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United States22154 Posts
Are vets notified if they lose their extra life?
Vigi shots refunded if stacked with scum shots?
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/in
Oooooh yeah
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/in
Been looking for a mini to hop into.
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I would play but. Sitting out for ban list I geuss.
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On February 26 2012 07:28 GMarshal wrote: Are vets notified if they lose their extra life?
Vigi shots refunded if stacked with scum shots? Yes and yes.
Player list updated.
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United States5684 Posts
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United States5684 Posts
more peeps should sign up
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/in. Finally got to be in a mini!
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Oh god Jackal! Let us pray he rolls town. It seems we have one almighty vet and a bunch of newbies including a debutant. Should be interesting. Word to the wise, anyone going all emo this game will be lynched. I will treat any threats of quitting as a request to be hung. Play hard, play fair but above all play to win.
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Iceland22590 Posts
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On February 27 2012 20:13 Pandain wrote: /in
Holy shit, this just got more interesting.
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lol, this setup is crazy.
Stupid questions I have:
What happens if there is one mafia and a serial killer remaining, who wins?
If a Watcher is watching a Tracker who is tracking someone what information, if any, does the Watcher return?
Doesn't the serial killer introduce too much KP? If you have a 3 mafia setup, it would be theoretically possible for town to win night 1 right?
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United States22154 Posts
wiggles, I need a blurb about the fluff in this game for the S&G sticky!
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United States5684 Posts
On February 28 2012 00:43 TheToast wrote: lol, this setup is crazy.
Stupid questions I have:
What happens if there is one mafia and a serial killer remaining, who wins?
If a Watcher is watching a Tracker who is tracking someone what information, if any, does the Watcher return?
Doesn't the serial killer introduce too much KP? If you have a 3 mafia setup, it would be theoretically possible for town to win night 1 right?
Using bold blue text
When having equal members, Serial Killer wins over town and Mafia, Mafia wins over town.
IDK about the watcher/tracker scenario
The Setup is balanced
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United States22154 Posts
the watcher would see nothing toast, he sees who visits a player, so he would see who visits the tracker, no matter what the tracker does that night.
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On February 28 2012 02:35 Mattchew wrote: The Setup is balanced
Alright, I guess I believe you...
And maybe I have that tracker/watcher thing backwards? Basically I want to know if it's possible for either of them to detect that the other is a blue. So if the Tracker is tracking a Watcher, does the Tracker see the person is a watcher or do they just appear as though they are using no powers during the night.
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Nvm I think GMarshal just answered my question? It's the same if they are reversed though, right?
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A tracker see's who his target visits, a watcher see's who visits a target.
If a tracker is tracking a watcher who is watching someone, they would return "your target visited X last night"
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On February 28 2012 02:48 GreYMisT wrote: A tracker see's who his target visits, a watcher see's who visits a target.
If a tracker is tracking a watcher who is watching someone, they would return "your target visited X last night"
Ah, thank you, this is what I wanted to know!
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United States22154 Posts
On February 28 2012 02:40 TheToast wrote:Alright, I guess I believe you... And maybe I have that tracker/watcher thing backwards? Basically I want to know if it's possible for either of them to detect that the other is a blue. So if the Tracker is tracking a Watcher, does the Tracker see the person is a watcher or do they just appear as though they are using no powers during the night. They would see the watcher visit whoever they happen to watch that night.
EDIT: Ninjas!
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@GMarshal I agree, ninja's would make this game 100% better. Requesting ninja role be added, and promptly given to me.
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Give me a role that doesn't exist so everyone is like wtf
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Mid term break
/in
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So game is full, can we start!
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On February 28 2012 07:15 deconduo wrote:Mid term break /in
Holy shit again.
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This summer had been exceedingly average. There were no exciting raids. Foreign affairs were progressing as always. Politics were dead, with the term being served by a president that didn't evoke any specific reaction from the populace. Everything about it was absolutely and aggravatingly average.
That was, until one fateful day, there was a royal party in the loveliest of places. A giant summer mansion. One friendly owner. Eight golden tickets to happiness.
Monsieur Dragoné was bored, as was the entire continent. Owning a summer mansion in the San Francisco Bay of gloriously sunny California, he decided to fly from his home in New York to spend a few weeks at this paradise. But what fun is a mansion without some company?
That is when the invitations were sent out.
He called prominent members from around the globe to join him. Ghost, most beautiful princess in the world and soon to inherit the royal British throne,
TheToast, Scientist and Researcher of Marine Life at Hawaii's Pacific University,
Paperscraps- Brilliant child prodigy who by age 12 had solved Fermat's Last Theorem,
Palmar, Renowned brain surgeon with a PhD in neurology,
Misder, Advocate for the rights of adopted and foster children,
A Killer Cuppa Tea, there is nothing to say about him he is perfectly average and unremarkable,
Decondou, Owner of a large law firm and graduate of Harvard Law School,
Probulus Second Coming of Jesus, but his mortal parents died before they could tell him, and God took a century vacation.
Snarfs, French Billionaire who made his fortune in the coal industry,
Jackal, Writer of murder mystery novels living in London, Paris,
rtgICEMAN, Richest man in the universe after his invention of a new computer company that combined the best qualities of Apple and PC,
Pandain, Famous gay douchebag
Bluelightz, Eccentric microchip pioneer who named himself bluelightz after a near death experience where he saw a blue light,
and not rgTheSchworz With all of these people, he hoped to have the summer of a lifetime! All of them were very excited, for Monsieur Dragoné was very famous and being invited to his residency was of the highest honors. That is, until, they arrived in a heap of confusion to find Monsieur Dragoné no where to be found. He was about to play the game of a life time.
It is Day 1. You may now begin.
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Probulous, the apparently missing Edit: Cause I can
"Probulus Second Coming of Jesus, but his mortal parents died before they could tell him, and God took a century vacation."
This I can live with. Certainly explains my drunken childhood.
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United States5684 Posts
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Princess? Not happy.
Beautiful princess?
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I am brilliant, you all shall sheep me and town will win the game.
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On February 28 2012 09:11 Paperscraps wrote: I am brilliant, you all shall sheep me and town will win the game.
I'm Jesus 2.0, your point is invalid.
Reading the kaller game now which is mildly off beat. Wouldn't it be awesome if the inventor could invent Jesus, but no-one believed him because he had no proof he actually was Jesus? The only way the new Jesus could activate his godly powers is if the majority of the thread prayed to him Religious mafia!
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On February 27 2012 18:04 Probulous wrote: Oh god Jackal! Let us pray he rolls town. It seems we have one almighty vet and a bunch of newbies including a debutant. Should be interesting. Word to the wise, anyone going all emo this game will be lynched. I will treat any threats of quitting as a request to be hung. Play hard, play fair but above all play to win. Who the fuck are you?
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Just to clarify, the above descriptions of the players aren't clues/hints to alignments?
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Iceland22590 Posts
Probulous is pretty lovable jackal, you'll learn to like him
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On February 28 2012 09:23 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 18:04 Probulous wrote: Oh god Jackal! Let us pray he rolls town. It seems we have one almighty vet and a bunch of newbies including a debutant. Should be interesting. Word to the wise, anyone going all emo this game will be lynched. I will treat any threats of quitting as a request to be hung. Play hard, play fair but above all play to win. Who the fuck are you?
Someone who happens to read old games and knows your godliness when you roll scum. As for the rest of the post the last newbie game was ruined by players threatening to quit when they were labelled as scum. One just left the thread completely. It caused an absolute shitstorm because it put town at MYLO. Thats is why I have put this here.
♥ Palmar. You're too kind when you're not being an asshole
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Palmar is scum this game and will be lynched.
I can tell from his one post, because I am brilliant.
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United States22154 Posts
On February 28 2012 09:47 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 09:23 Jackal58 wrote:On February 27 2012 18:04 Probulous wrote: Oh god Jackal! Let us pray he rolls town. It seems we have one almighty vet and a bunch of newbies including a debutant. Should be interesting. Word to the wise, anyone going all emo this game will be lynched. I will treat any threats of quitting as a request to be hung. Play hard, play fair but above all play to win. Who the fuck are you? Someone who happens to read old games and knows your godliness when you roll scum. As for the rest of the post the last newbie game was ruined by players threatening to quit when they were labelled as scum. One just left the thread completely. It caused an absolute shitstorm because it put town at MYLO. Thats is why I have put this here. ♥ Palmar. You're too kind when you're not being an asshole You clearly don't know about Pandian, the only survivor of insane mafia, or who deconduo, the guy responsible for PTP 1 and 2 is . I think you are in for a bit of a surprise if you think you are surrounded by newbies :-P
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He signed up after the original post.
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On February 28 2012 08:12 Bluelightz wrote:Holy shit again.
On February 28 2012 09:16 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 09:11 Paperscraps wrote: I am brilliant, you all shall sheep me and town will win the game. I'm Jesus 2.0, your point is invalid. Reading the kaller game now which is mildly off beat. Wouldn't it be awesome if the inventor could invent Jesus, but no-one believed him because he had no proof he actually was Jesus? The only way the new Jesus could activate his godly powers is if the majority of the thread prayed to him Religious mafia!
Hey who are you guys?
On February 28 2012 09:41 Pandain wrote: Last edit: 2012-02-28 09:41:30
Burn the witch!
##Vote Pandain
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On February 28 2012 09:58 GMarshal wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 09:47 Probulous wrote:On February 28 2012 09:23 Jackal58 wrote:On February 27 2012 18:04 Probulous wrote: Oh god Jackal! Let us pray he rolls town. It seems we have one almighty vet and a bunch of newbies including a debutant. Should be interesting. Word to the wise, anyone going all emo this game will be lynched. I will treat any threats of quitting as a request to be hung. Play hard, play fair but above all play to win. Who the fuck are you? Someone who happens to read old games and knows your godliness when you roll scum. As for the rest of the post the last newbie game was ruined by players threatening to quit when they were labelled as scum. One just left the thread completely. It caused an absolute shitstorm because it put town at MYLO. Thats is why I have put this here. ♥ Palmar. You're too kind when you're not being an asshole You clearly don't know about Pandian, the only survivor of insane mafia, or who deconduo, the guy responsible for PTP 1 and 2 is . I think you are in for a bit of a surprise if you think you are surrounded by newbies :-P
I've wanted to do PTP3 for ages but I just don't have time. Final year of college, thesis, PhD applications, study, exams, Dota 2, etc. etc. However as soon as my finals are over I promise I'll be back >:D
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Oh, the go to last post viewed post feature is awesome.
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Sweet. I've always wanted to pretend I was a marine biologist.
And 8 golden tickets, are we going to the Grand Galloping Gala?! @_@
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On February 28 2012 11:50 deconduo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 08:12 Bluelightz wrote:On February 28 2012 07:15 deconduo wrote:Mid term break /in Holy shit again. Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 09:16 Probulous wrote:On February 28 2012 09:11 Paperscraps wrote: I am brilliant, you all shall sheep me and town will win the game. I'm Jesus 2.0, your point is invalid. Reading the kaller game now which is mildly off beat. Wouldn't it be awesome if the inventor could invent Jesus, but no-one believed him because he had no proof he actually was Jesus? The only way the new Jesus could activate his godly powers is if the majority of the thread prayed to him Religious mafia! Hey who are you guys? Burn the witch! ##Vote Pandain
I'm a relative newbie around here. I've played three games and lost all three But I tried damn hard to win in every one and somehow managed to lose.
Mafia History - 0:3
Aside from these games I am usually active in the Obs QT of most games, especially the newbie ones. Any questions in particular?
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Ok, so this is likely starting tomorrow, or else Wednesday. I need one, probably two more players.
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Iceland22590 Posts
dude, weren't you on my team in werewolves? didn't we win that game?
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Iceland22590 Posts
On February 28 2012 09:55 Paperscraps wrote: Palmar is scum this game and will be lynched.
I can tell from his one post, because I am brilliant.
Incorrect, there is a third party in the game so you can be pretty certain that's what my alignment is.
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Iceland22590 Posts
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United States5684 Posts
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rtgICEMAN is currently on the banlist, so I need one more player
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United States5684 Posts
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On February 28 2012 23:06 Palmar wrote:Will the teams be balanced or completely randomized?+ Show Spoiler + Hey, I'd love to have this answered too.
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United States5684 Posts
On February 29 2012 05:33 sandroba wrote:Hey, I'd love to have this answered too.
I am waiting to hear back from Wiggles on this
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On February 28 2012 18:46 Palmar wrote: dude, weren't you on my team in werewolves? didn't we win that game?
Incorrect, I died and my win condition was to be alive. I wasn't technically on either of the mafia teams. I checked it with Ciry to be sure. That was part of why I wanted to get the other teams list for you. Less opportunity for me to get shot. I was just too late. It was a great game and I think I played alright, I just didn't win. This is the one to break the streak, I know it.
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Iceland22590 Posts
Not like I ever understood that game.
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On February 29 2012 05:33 sandroba wrote:Hey, I'd love to have this answered too. Everything's random.
Still need one more.
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United States5684 Posts
On February 29 2012 06:54 Palmar wrote: Not like I ever understood that game. I got shot cause i looked too townie... therefore noone understood that game
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On February 29 2012 07:35 Adam4167 wrote: /in
I like random.
*Brofist*
Let us make this a game for the ages.
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Game's most likely starting tomorrow. Mattchew's sent out confirmation PMs.
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I've got a bad feeling about this.
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United States5684 Posts
Hey guys,
Thank you to everyone (literally EVERYONE) for getting back to me so quickly. If you all can keep up this attentiveness this should be an active and awesome game! As Wiggles said Role PM's should be going out and we should be starting tonight barring and unforeseen occurances.
GLHF Everyone, Ya Sea Lassies don't know what your in for. ARGH
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On February 29 2012 15:35 Adam4167 wrote: I've got a bad feeling about this.
I'm sorry the correct response was *in a dwarf voice* "and my mousepad". "Monitor" would also have been acceptable.
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I WANT MY PM NOW IM GONNA SLEEP SOON Q_Q
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United States5684 Posts
Bluelightz
You are the dead townie. You are dead.
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United States5684 Posts
that was meant to be pm'd.. oh shiii..
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United States5684 Posts
On March 01 2012 01:33 rgTheSchworz wrote: Pm s in??
If you are asking if Role PM's went out the answer is no
If you are asking if this is a PM game the answer is no
and if you are asking if that last post by me was an actual role PM the answer is no.
TLDR; No
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When will Pm s go out?? I must sleep, but Tactics come first. Hope it wont turn out as bad as the last ones. Gl all.
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On February 29 2012 15:35 Adam4167 wrote: I've got a bad feeling about this.
Too late, you're stuck here now. Looking at the player list this should be a decent game. I expect great things my Adelaide friend
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On March 01 2012 06:53 Probulous wrote:Too late, you're stuck here now. Looking at the player list this should be a decent game. I expect great things my Adelaide friend
inb4 SK victory
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I have something I need to do soon, but barring that taking forever, alignments should go out in 3 hours, 10 minutes. The game will start one hour after that. Deadlines will be at 12:00 KST. If I run late, I'll send out alignments at 12:00 KST, and the game will start then.
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Heads up people, the deadline is at 2pm Aus (syd) time. That means the lynch vote is at 2pm Sat for me. My best friend from Uni is getting married that day, so I won't be here at the vote deadline. I was hoping we would start yesterday but alas it was not to be. My vote will therefore be made earlier in the day. I will be active as I usually am at other times.
I am also trying to avoid my usual text walls. So far I have been failing but hopefully this game I get it right.
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Iceland22590 Posts
heads up people, deadline is like 2 or 3 am icelandic time. I'll be sleeping so feel free to be dumb as shit close to the lynch.
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10 AM here so gonna have to make it earlier aswell q_q
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On March 01 2012 08:03 Probulous wrote: Heads up people, the deadline is at 2pm Aus (syd) time. That means the lynch vote is at 2pm Sat for me. My best friend from Uni is getting married that day, so I won't be here at the vote deadline. I was hoping we would start yesterday but alas it was not to be. My vote will therefore be made earlier in the day. I will be active as I usually am at other times.
I am also trying to avoid my usual text walls. So far I have been failing but hopefully this game I get it right.
I have a wedding on Saturday as well. So looks like we need to get our first lynch sorted out quicksmart.
Scum, please do something dumb within the first 12 hours of game start. Thanks.
Otherwise, I can always update from my phone.
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Role PMs going out now, game starts in 34 minutes.
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Role PMs are out. If you did not receive a PM, please contact me.
I also made an observer QT, PM me if you're interested.
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Day 1: Mutineers Hushed murmers passed between the men of the SS Qatol as they waited nervously on the main deck of the ship. Behind them, the body of Foolishness hung by a rope around his neck from the central mast, his feet tracing little circles in the air as he swung in the calm sea breeze. His body had been found that morning, and the men on the night watch all claimed to have not seen or heard anything. Foolishness had been close to the Captain, often serving as his eyes and ears among the crew, and as such, hadn't been the most popular pirate among his bretheren. That someone would actually kill him though, and while at sea, went beyond mere dislike. Someone had decided to start a war against the Captain, and killing Foolishness was their first attack. So, the men talked quietly amongst themselves, making wagers on who the murderer, or murderers, were, and what would come to pass in the following days.
This talk died abrubtly, however, when the doors of the main cabin swung open. Preceded by his First Mate, Mattchew, Captain Wiggles slowly walked out of the dim interior of the ship. His gaze swept slowly over his crew, before coming to rest on the body hanging from the mast. He stared at it for a short while, before fixing his stare in his crew once again. Now he cleared his throat:
"GENTLEMEN! It has come to my attention that our much-valued comrade, Foolishness, has been most gruesomely murdered by someone on this very ship." Here, Captain Wiggles paused for a moment before continuing. "Now, this may come as a surprise to you, but Foolishness was one of my most trusted men, and a sailor I held in high esteem. That some wretch would kill him is something of a personal insult, to myself. It speaks of mutiny, and that is not something I will have on MY ship."
Wiggles stopped again, smiling softly, and then laughed. "So, I've decided to offer up a reward, which will be paid out to the men who manage to sniff out and punish these mutineers. I don't care how you do it. What methods you use is up to you, so long as they are dealt with. Make those maggots rue the day they spawned!"
And with that, Captain Wiggles and First Mate Mattchew left the deck as abruptly as they had arrived, slamming the doors to the cabin behind them, and leaving the crew alone to contemplate the words of the Captain and the lure of the promised reward.
Day 1 has begun! It's time to decide the first lynch!
Please place all votes in this thread. You have a little less than 48 hours from the time of this post, until 12 KST two days from now. Good luck, and have fun!
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glhf!
So, to start some discussion here's some topics,
1). Should we adopt LA-Liars/Lurkers? Or just stick to analysis? 2).
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I wonder how Qatol feels about being a ship? All those men riding in his bowels >_>
On to more important things, it feels so good to roll town again. As my first act I want to call out Bluelightz! Every game I have read or played with you I have not been able to tell your alignment. This diverts unecessary attention and time away from useful scum hunting. So shape up and be active. If you lurk this game I will make sure you swing from the yard-arm.
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derp, EBWOP
So, to start some discussion here's some topics,
1). Should we adopt LA-Liars/Lurkers? Or just stick to analysis? 2). The lynch. 3). Activity(Policy on lurkers)
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ROFL, the only one who posts is the one who shouldn't be lurking. Great start!
LAL is a stupid policy and so is discussing it. The whole point of mafia is to make decisions based on the evidence in game. Having premade policy's that by their very nature preclude taking each circumstance on its merits, is stupid. I will not support a LAL policy. I doubt anyone would.
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Awww, so slow...
1). I like lynch all liars. Lynch one lurker on Day 1 if needed- analysis takes care of the rest. I like analysis.
2).
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EBWOP: Oh dear lord I said policy's instead of policies. For shame
As for lynching lurkers, well I think they are good targets for any vigs we may have. Better to force them to post. There are different kinds of lurkers and so instituting a broad policy is stupid as well. Again, it doesn't take into account the specific information about the lurker. Has he posted at all or is he just AFK? I don't like it, there are better ways to deal with them.
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I can only take you at your word that you're town, Prob, but if you really are, we're either both getting a win or both getting a loss this game.
Even after the Arkham city debacle, I still hate policy lynches. Ill stick to analysis for my method of finding scum.
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We're screwing up posting so hard XD
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Palmar, Jackal, deconduo and Pandain. You guys are the vets of this game. Any of you guys around?
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On March 01 2012 12:19 Misder wrote: Awww, so slow...
1). I like lynch all liars. Lynch one lurker on Day 1 if needed- analysis takes care of the rest. I like analysis.
2).
Doesn't the one preclude the other? I mean following any policy requires the suspension of analysis. Besides if you institute a policy such as lynching lurkers day 1 you get no information going into day 2. I mean a lurker by their very nature has no information to give. In addition mafia can just push the lynch onto a town lurker. I am much happier voting for someone who is trying to lurk or is pushing a scummy agenda than someone who is just not here. Hence why I don't like policy lynches.
On a separate note, have you played much mafia here?
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3:30am in Iceland and Ireland right now, probably a bit hopeful that Palmar and deconduo are on. The other two may be around, depending on which US states they're in.
Welcome back Misder, second wiggles game for both of us. If you're town again, do you plan on playing out the whole game this time?
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On March 01 2012 12:22 Adam4167 wrote: I can only take you at your word that you're town, Prob, but if you really are, we're either both getting a win or both getting a loss this game.
Even after the Arkham city debacle, I still hate policy lynches. Ill stick to analysis for my method of finding scum.
I have a streak that needs breaking. I can't lose every game I play. Let's do this *brofist*
Paperscraps where you at brother?
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On March 01 2012 12:29 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2012 12:19 Misder wrote: Awww, so slow...
1). I like lynch all liars. Lynch one lurker on Day 1 if needed- analysis takes care of the rest. I like analysis.
2). Doesn't the one preclude the other? I mean following any policy requires the suspension of analysis. Besides if you institute a policy such as lynching lurkers day 1 you get no information going into day 2. I mean a lurker by their very nature has no information to give. In addition mafia can just push the lynch onto a town lurker. I am much happier voting for someone who is trying to lurk or is pushing a scummy agenda than someone who is just not here. Hence why I don't like policy lynches. On a separate note, have you played much mafia here? I don't exactly know which policy you are referring to. Lynch all Liars is a good policy lynch (suspension of analysis as you call it). Any "analysis" becomes WIFOM and stupid. Lynch all Lurkers is a pretty bad policy lynch, and as such, the only time I would consider lynching a lurker without analysis would be on day 1.
"Much" is relative (and I'm guessing by your standards, no), but I've been here for at least a year.
On March 01 2012 12:29 Adam4167 wrote: 3:30am in Iceland and Ireland right now, probably a bit hopeful that Palmar and deconduo are on. The other two may be around, depending on which US states they're in.
Welcome back Misder, second wiggles game for both of us. If you're town again, do you plan on playing out the whole game this time?
lol. I plan on not getting cocky and then getting depressed so much that I have given up.
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Keep on posting people!
I do agree with you Prob that we shouldnt use policies and...... but I think vigs we may have should fire on better targets then lurkers if possible, what do you think?
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Thanks for the reminder Adam. For reference
Player List: 1. Jackal58 - USA 2. Paperscraps - USA 3. Bluelightz - Indonesia 4. Probulous - Great Southern Land 5. Snarfs - Kanucksland 6. rgTheSchworz - Romania 7. Misder - Fairy Land AKA who the fucks knows 8. Pandain - USA 9. Palmar - Iceland 10. Sandroba - USA 11. TheToast - USA 12. Adam4167 - Land Down under 13. A Killer Cuppa Tea - Neighbours with Misder 14. deconduo - Ireland
This is what I have for countries based on profiles. Misder and Tea where are you boys based?
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I was going to go to sleep but I had to say it.
Probulous stop spamming the thread. Your pulling a Pandain and making the whole thread a shitfest of spam. Why does it matter where people are? Why do you say a post to say "hey is anyone here?" If you keep spamming the thread, it creates a bad atmosphere that hurts the town. I'm too tired to explain but just stop posting if it doesn't have a real purpose, and never post if your just bored. + Show Spoiler + On a separate note, have you played much mafia here?
Only contributes to spam. Keep outside conversations outside.
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On March 01 2012 12:40 Bluelightz wrote: Keep on posting people!
I do agree with you Prob that we shouldnt use policies and...... but I think vigs we may have should fire on better targets then lurkers if possible, what do you think?
Well, of course a vig is going to shoot an obvscum if one happens to wander into the thread, I think that doesn't need to be stated.
The only person in this game that I know zero about would be Snarfs, everyone else ive read/played at least one game of/with. I don't think you are a smurf, since your account is over a year old, but whats your story? Are you new to TL mafia? or new to forum mafia in general? Is this your first game?
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Updated country in profile for Probulous and for all others who care. I have a weird sleep schedule anyways.
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On March 01 2012 12:36 Misder wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2012 12:29 Probulous wrote:On March 01 2012 12:19 Misder wrote: Awww, so slow...
1). I like lynch all liars. Lynch one lurker on Day 1 if needed- analysis takes care of the rest. I like analysis.
2). Doesn't the one preclude the other? I mean following any policy requires the suspension of analysis. Besides if you institute a policy such as lynching lurkers day 1 you get no information going into day 2. I mean a lurker by their very nature has no information to give. In addition mafia can just push the lynch onto a town lurker. I am much happier voting for someone who is trying to lurk or is pushing a scummy agenda than someone who is just not here. Hence why I don't like policy lynches. On a separate note, have you played much mafia here? I don't exactly know which policy you are referring to. Lynch all Liars is a good policy lynch (suspension of analysis as you call it). Any "analysis" becomes WIFOM and stupid. Lynch all Lurkers is a pretty bad policy lynch, and as such, the only time I would consider lynching a lurker without analysis would be on day 1. "Much" is relative (and I'm guessing by your standards, no), but I've been here for at least a year. Show nested quote +On March 01 2012 12:29 Adam4167 wrote: 3:30am in Iceland and Ireland right now, probably a bit hopeful that Palmar and deconduo are on. The other two may be around, depending on which US states they're in.
Welcome back Misder, second wiggles game for both of us. If you're town again, do you plan on playing out the whole game this time? lol. I plan on not getting cocky and then getting depressed so much that I have given up.
I agree "much" was not the right word to use. Though I was not implying that I have any great skill at this game. I just do my best. I just wanted to know whether you had had these discussions before. Often policies look good on the surface and so are supported by new guys. I just wanted to check whether you are a new guy.
As for your main point, I don't like either policy. Liars or lurkers. Like I stated having a policy requires you follow it regardless of the circumstances, otherwise it isn't a policy. If you apply it based evidence other than the fact that the poster lied than it becomes analysis. Policies allow people to vote for a lynch without decent reasoning. They can abdicate their responsibility for logic by just saying "he lied, he must die". I don't like it.
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On March 01 2012 12:47 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2012 12:36 Misder wrote:On March 01 2012 12:29 Probulous wrote:On March 01 2012 12:19 Misder wrote: Awww, so slow...
1). I like lynch all liars. Lynch one lurker on Day 1 if needed- analysis takes care of the rest. I like analysis.
2). Doesn't the one preclude the other? I mean following any policy requires the suspension of analysis. Besides if you institute a policy such as lynching lurkers day 1 you get no information going into day 2. I mean a lurker by their very nature has no information to give. In addition mafia can just push the lynch onto a town lurker. I am much happier voting for someone who is trying to lurk or is pushing a scummy agenda than someone who is just not here. Hence why I don't like policy lynches. On a separate note, have you played much mafia here? I don't exactly know which policy you are referring to. Lynch all Liars is a good policy lynch (suspension of analysis as you call it). Any "analysis" becomes WIFOM and stupid. Lynch all Lurkers is a pretty bad policy lynch, and as such, the only time I would consider lynching a lurker without analysis would be on day 1. "Much" is relative (and I'm guessing by your standards, no), but I've been here for at least a year. On March 01 2012 12:29 Adam4167 wrote: 3:30am in Iceland and Ireland right now, probably a bit hopeful that Palmar and deconduo are on. The other two may be around, depending on which US states they're in.
Welcome back Misder, second wiggles game for both of us. If you're town again, do you plan on playing out the whole game this time? lol. I plan on not getting cocky and then getting depressed so much that I have given up. I agree "much" was not the right word to use. Though I was not implying that I have any great skill at this game. I just do my best. I just wanted to know whether you had had these discussions before. Often policies look good on the surface and so are supported by new guys. I just wanted to check whether you are a new guy. As for your main point, I don't like either policy. Liars or lurkers. Like I stated having a policy requires you follow it regardless of the circumstances, otherwise it isn't a policy. If you apply it based evidence other than the fact that the poster lied than it becomes analysis. Policies allow people to vote for a lynch without decent reasoning. They can abdicate their responsibility for logic by just saying "he lied, he must die". I don't like it.
And then what. "But maybe he had a reason to lie! He could have been doing <insert WIFOM here> and actually been trying to help town!" Do you think it's going to be net beneficial for town to have to deal with this crap (excuse the language) than for the supposed reason to lie? I don't think so.
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On March 01 2012 12:45 Pandain wrote:I was going to go to sleep but I had to say it. Probulous stop spamming the thread. Your pulling a Pandain and making the whole thread a shitfest of spam. Why does it matter where people are? Why do you say a post to say "hey is anyone here?" If you keep spamming the thread, it creates a bad atmosphere that hurts the town. I'm too tired to explain but just stop posting if it doesn't have a real purpose, and never post if your just bored. + Show Spoiler + On a separate note, have you played much mafia here?
Only contributes to spam. Keep outside conversations outside.
Do you want an answer to your questions or am I supposed to just stop posting? To answer your questions, Adam pointed out that some people are sleeping, hence knowing where people are based is useful to keep this in mind. Second I specifically pointed out that none of the vets are participating because it highlights that they won't be forgotten. I expect substance from you. Besides, it is a harmless one liner that received a response. I don't want anyone to skate by without contributing. As for asking about Misder's history, that is explained in my post above. I am not spamming with no purpose. I have to get people to post and this is how I do it.
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That took a long time to post. Are you hiding something?
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On March 01 2012 12:52 Misder wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2012 12:47 Probulous wrote:On March 01 2012 12:36 Misder wrote:On March 01 2012 12:29 Probulous wrote:On March 01 2012 12:19 Misder wrote: Awww, so slow...
1). I like lynch all liars. Lynch one lurker on Day 1 if needed- analysis takes care of the rest. I like analysis.
2). Doesn't the one preclude the other? I mean following any policy requires the suspension of analysis. Besides if you institute a policy such as lynching lurkers day 1 you get no information going into day 2. I mean a lurker by their very nature has no information to give. In addition mafia can just push the lynch onto a town lurker. I am much happier voting for someone who is trying to lurk or is pushing a scummy agenda than someone who is just not here. Hence why I don't like policy lynches. On a separate note, have you played much mafia here? I don't exactly know which policy you are referring to. Lynch all Liars is a good policy lynch (suspension of analysis as you call it). Any "analysis" becomes WIFOM and stupid. Lynch all Lurkers is a pretty bad policy lynch, and as such, the only time I would consider lynching a lurker without analysis would be on day 1. "Much" is relative (and I'm guessing by your standards, no), but I've been here for at least a year. On March 01 2012 12:29 Adam4167 wrote: 3:30am in Iceland and Ireland right now, probably a bit hopeful that Palmar and deconduo are on. The other two may be around, depending on which US states they're in.
Welcome back Misder, second wiggles game for both of us. If you're town again, do you plan on playing out the whole game this time? lol. I plan on not getting cocky and then getting depressed so much that I have given up. I agree "much" was not the right word to use. Though I was not implying that I have any great skill at this game. I just do my best. I just wanted to know whether you had had these discussions before. Often policies look good on the surface and so are supported by new guys. I just wanted to check whether you are a new guy. As for your main point, I don't like either policy. Liars or lurkers. Like I stated having a policy requires you follow it regardless of the circumstances, otherwise it isn't a policy. If you apply it based evidence other than the fact that the poster lied than it becomes analysis. Policies allow people to vote for a lynch without decent reasoning. They can abdicate their responsibility for logic by just saying "he lied, he must die". I don't like it. And then what. "But maybe he had a reason to lie! He could have been doing <insert WIFOM here> and actually been trying to help town!" Do you think it's going to be net beneficial for town to have to deal with this crap (excuse the language) than for the supposed reason to lie? I don't think so.
No you move on and based your decision on other actions. I agree that lieing hurts town and should be taken into account when pushing a lynch. But having a policy that straight up ignores how that person was playing when they weren't lying is stupid. I mean if a medic lied to stay alive but pushed good reads all game, you would lynch him without considering the rest of his play? You don't have to solve the lie. You are correct in that it leads to WIFOM, I merely use it as a piece of data in a larger case. No need for a policy.
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On March 01 2012 12:57 Pandain wrote: That took a long time to post. Are you hiding something?
I am trying to be clear. Like I said before the game started, I tend to write text walls and I am trying to improve on this. Making sure I am logical and concise helps everyone understand me better. Besides I have already had one stupid spelling/grammar mistake that bugs me.
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I'm kinda bore with Lynch all Liars/Lurkers talk. This game we shall try something new: Lynch whoever I tell you to lynch and win. It works wonders.
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Pandain, since your here what do you think about the Policies and how do you think we should deal with lurkers?
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Sandroba you too what d'you think?
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Hey everyone
On March 01 2012 12:46 Adam4167 wrote: The only person in this game that I know zero about would be Snarfs, everyone else ive read/played at least one game of/with. I don't think you are a smurf, since your account is over a year old, but whats your story? Are you new to TL mafia? or new to forum mafia in general? Is this your first game?
Figured I'd take these questions and give a little more information about myself too so that you know what you can expect of me.
Yes, I am new to TL mafia, forum mafia in general and this is my first game. Over about the last week and a half I've read/skimmed through quite a few games - I recognize most of the names in this game - and most of the guides as well. I'm really excited for the challenge presented by forum mafia, especially the behaviour (spelt with a 'u') analysis as I studied psych for a couple years at UBC.
As for my timetable -> I live on the west coast and can only really not post when I'm sleeping as my job requires me to be in front of a computer all day anyways; however, while I'm at work (regularish working hours) I may have to stop replying in the middle of a conversation if I need to take care of something but I will always come back to respond.
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Now, to the game at hand:
One thing I haven't quite picked up on in my readings is what sorts of things to talk about to get the ball rolling. Policy lynches seem like a common topic, but in the end it seems to come down to lynching whoever the most scummy person is, whether they're a lurker, a liar, both, or neither. Yes?
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On March 01 2012 12:18 Bluelightz wrote: derp, EBWOP
So, to start some discussion here's some topics,
1). Should we adopt LA-Liars/Lurkers? Or just stick to analysis? 2). The lynch. 3). Activity(Policy on lurkers)
Yeah, no lynching systems please. Lynches need to be based on strong logical analysis and evidence. Anything else really ends up hurting town more than anything.
On March 01 2012 12:45 Pandain wrote:I was going to go to sleep but I had to say it. Probulous stop spamming the thread. Your pulling a Pandain and making the whole thread a shitfest of spam. Why does it matter where people are? Why do you say a post to say "hey is anyone here?" If you keep spamming the thread, it creates a bad atmosphere that hurts the town. I'm too tired to explain but just stop posting if it doesn't have a real purpose, and never post if your just bored. + Show Spoiler + On a separate note, have you played much mafia here?
Only contributes to spam. Keep outside conversations outside.
Agreed. The more fluff, random posts in the thread, the easier it is for scum to hide. Keep it focused.
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Well, Snarfs responding to your question Policy Lynches end up like this
(I'll use LA-Lurkers as an example)
A: *Lurks*
*Enact Policy*
People : A is lurking Lynch him!
Anyway, what your saying is analysis, we deduce who is the most scummy in the thread through analysis and lynch him/her at the end of the day.
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On March 01 2012 12:59 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2012 12:52 Misder wrote:On March 01 2012 12:47 Probulous wrote:On March 01 2012 12:36 Misder wrote:On March 01 2012 12:29 Probulous wrote:On March 01 2012 12:19 Misder wrote: Awww, so slow...
1). I like lynch all liars. Lynch one lurker on Day 1 if needed- analysis takes care of the rest. I like analysis.
2). Doesn't the one preclude the other? I mean following any policy requires the suspension of analysis. Besides if you institute a policy such as lynching lurkers day 1 you get no information going into day 2. I mean a lurker by their very nature has no information to give. In addition mafia can just push the lynch onto a town lurker. I am much happier voting for someone who is trying to lurk or is pushing a scummy agenda than someone who is just not here. Hence why I don't like policy lynches. On a separate note, have you played much mafia here? I don't exactly know which policy you are referring to. Lynch all Liars is a good policy lynch (suspension of analysis as you call it). Any "analysis" becomes WIFOM and stupid. Lynch all Lurkers is a pretty bad policy lynch, and as such, the only time I would consider lynching a lurker without analysis would be on day 1. "Much" is relative (and I'm guessing by your standards, no), but I've been here for at least a year. On March 01 2012 12:29 Adam4167 wrote: 3:30am in Iceland and Ireland right now, probably a bit hopeful that Palmar and deconduo are on. The other two may be around, depending on which US states they're in.
Welcome back Misder, second wiggles game for both of us. If you're town again, do you plan on playing out the whole game this time? lol. I plan on not getting cocky and then getting depressed so much that I have given up. I agree "much" was not the right word to use. Though I was not implying that I have any great skill at this game. I just do my best. I just wanted to know whether you had had these discussions before. Often policies look good on the surface and so are supported by new guys. I just wanted to check whether you are a new guy. As for your main point, I don't like either policy. Liars or lurkers. Like I stated having a policy requires you follow it regardless of the circumstances, otherwise it isn't a policy. If you apply it based evidence other than the fact that the poster lied than it becomes analysis. Policies allow people to vote for a lynch without decent reasoning. They can abdicate their responsibility for logic by just saying "he lied, he must die". I don't like it. And then what. "But maybe he had a reason to lie! He could have been doing <insert WIFOM here> and actually been trying to help town!" Do you think it's going to be net beneficial for town to have to deal with this crap (excuse the language) than for the supposed reason to lie? I don't think so. No you move on and based your decision on other actions. I agree that lieing hurts town and should be taken into account when pushing a lynch. But having a policy that straight up ignores how that person was playing when they weren't lying is stupid. I mean if a medic lied to stay alive but pushed good reads all game, you would lynch him without considering the rest of his play? You don't have to solve the lie. You are correct in that it leads to WIFOM, I merely use it as a piece of data in a larger case. No need for a policy.
If you think you can analyze lying as a piece of data correctly, go right ahead. Don't blame me when scum tricks you.
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@TheToast
What do you think about how we should deal with lurkers?
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@Toast, did you read my response?
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On March 01 2012 13:23 Bluelightz wrote: Well, Snarfs responding to your question Policy Lynches end up like this
(I'll use LA-Lurkers as an example)
A: *Lurks*
*Enact Policy*
People : A is lurking Lynch him!
Anyway, what your saying is analysis, we deduce who is the most scummy in the thread through analysis and lynch him/her at the end of the day.
Yes, I understood that, but my point was that analysis can (should?) include lurking and lying. Of course, you would need to differentiate between "lurking" and "afking" while assuming as little as possible which I imagine is a difficult but not always impossible task.
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@Misder
I am not advocating analysing a lie. We all agree that lieing is scummy. That is all I meant by using it as a piece of data. Town should not lie unless they absolutely have to and have damn good reasons for it. If you do, it should be counted as evidence towards you being mafia. That is all, just another brick in the wall so to speak. Your case should stand on its own regardless of the lie. If the liar can't show why they did it and they looked scummy already then yes they should be lynched, but be aware that is not a policy lynch.
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On March 01 2012 13:33 Probulous wrote: @Misder
I am not advocating analysing a lie. We all agree that lieing is scummy. That is all I meant by using it as a piece of data. Town should not lie unless they absolutely have to and have damn good reasons for it. If you do, it should be counted as evidence towards you being mafia. That is all, just another brick in the wall so to speak. Your case should stand on its own regardless of the lie. If the liar can't show why they did it and they looked scummy already then yes they should be lynched, but be aware that is not a policy lynch.
Again, go right ahead w/ your analysis. If you believe that you can tell if scum is lying about having good reasons or even that town had good reasons to lie, fine.
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On March 01 2012 13:28 Probulous wrote: @Toast, did you read my response?
I have now :D
Pandain's point is valid none-the-less. We need to avoid getting sidetracked. That's all I was trying to say.
On March 01 2012 13:25 Bluelightz wrote: @TheToast
What do you think about how we should deal with lurkers?
I would say why don't we wait for a few hours and see if we actually have any lurkers. And obvious scum should still be lynched first day one, if there are really no good candidates I would say then we should consider lynching a lurker. But in that case the lurker would be the best candidate, so I still say lynches need to be based on good analysis.
I reiterate: silly lynch rules really only benefit scum. Logical analysis first please.
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On March 01 2012 13:39 TheToast wrote:I have now :D Pandain's point is valid none-the-less. We need to avoid getting sidetracked. That's all I was trying to say.
See this bugs me. It is the same for Pandain. I am trying to get people to post. I am actively pushing the thread along as best I can. What exactly do we have to avoid here? We are not on a track. I agree with Sandroba that policy talk is useless but it was brought up and I responded to those that asked me questions. However both of you guys are saying that I am spamming the thread with useless information. When I respond with my reasoning, neither of you acknowledge it. Pandain then ignores it and suggests that because I took "so long" writing it, I am hiding something.
How do those things go together? Pandain calls me out for posting too much, but I am hiding something? Does anyone else find this strange?
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On March 01 2012 13:51 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2012 13:39 TheToast wrote:On March 01 2012 13:28 Probulous wrote: @Toast, did you read my response? I have now :D Pandain's point is valid none-the-less. We need to avoid getting sidetracked. That's all I was trying to say. See this bugs me. It is the same for Pandain. I am trying to get people to post. I am actively pushing the thread along as best I can. What exactly do we have to avoid here? We are not on a track. I agree with Sandroba that policy talk is useless but it was brought up and I responded to those that asked me questions. However both of you guys are saying that I am spamming the thread with useless information. When I respond with my reasoning, neither of you acknowledge it. Pandain then ignores it and suggests that because I took "so long" writing it, I am hiding something. How do those things go together? Pandain calls me out for posting too much, but I am hiding something? Does anyone else find this strange?
I wasn't trying to specifically call you out. See the first word in that bolded sentence? "WE" As in ALL of us, together, need to avoid getting side tracked. I'm also unsure how you get me accusing you of "spamming" from me saying we need to avoid getting side tracked.
And to be fair, you did start a side conversation with Misder. I don't know that constitutes "spamming", but it's not going to lead to posts that can provide good analysis one way or the other. Just saying.
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You said you agreed with Pandain, his accusation was that I am spamming. Hence you think I am spamming. What exactly are we getting sidetracked from? The only thing we can analyse is what people post. If people don't post, then we can't analyse. We don't have any defined targets, we have no direction, we have nothing right now.
As for Misder, I don't like policies, he did. We discussed it. We agreed to disagree. Problem? That is the only thing of substance in this thread so far.
Toast, I know you think logically. Do you find this post scummy?
On March 01 2012 12:57 Pandain wrote: That took a long time to post. Are you hiding something?
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On March 01 2012 14:15 Probulous wrote:You said you agreed with Pandain, his accusation was that I am spamming. Hence you think I am spamming. What exactly are we getting sidetracked from? The only thing we can analyse is what people post. If people don't post, then we can't analyse. We don't have any defined targets, we have no direction, we have nothing right now. As for Misder, I don't like policies, he did. We discussed it. We agreed to disagree. Problem? That is the only thing of substance in this thread so far. Toast, I know you think logically. Do you find this post scummy? Show nested quote +On March 01 2012 12:57 Pandain wrote: That took a long time to post. Are you hiding something?
I wasn't trying to say you were spamming, I don't know why you are being so defensive about this. Pandain made a point about avoiding outside conversation in the thread, I agreed with that point. I wasn't trying to accuse you of anything. So no, I don't have a problem with it.
And you're right, I do try to think logically. As such I don't think two posts by themselves are enough to prove anyone as scum.
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Fair enough. I don't like how he was insinuating that I had something to hide when I responded to his accusation of spamming. He didn't have an issue with my reasoning (apparently) but he did have an issue with how long I took to reply (10 minutes, though I was responding to Misder at the time). You're right it is not enough to call someone scum, but it is worth noting.
Well work is over, I'll see you guys tomorrow. Happy scum hunting!
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Hey everybody!
Just got home from school.
The Probulous spam makes me laugh.
I am cool with lynching all lurkers. Hopefully this will be an active game, so we don't have to resort to such measures. I am excited to play with a few more vets in this game, than my previous games.
Quality of posts > Quantity of posts
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Well, Sorry I went blank for a while >< Had to turn of the computer ><
Anyway, I gotta go now :3, See you guys back when I reach home.
P.S Also hope to see more people post!
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On March 01 2012 13:02 sandroba wrote: I'm kinda bore with Lynch all Liars/Lurkers talk. This game we shall try something new: Lynch whoever I tell you to lynch and win. It works wonders.
Your chances of surviving another night are now halved,sir.
Best way to start this is with a feeler vote, so ##Vote: Probulous
On March 01 2012 12:41 Probulous wrote: Thanks for the reminder Adam. For reference
Player List: 1. Jackal58 - USA 2. Paperscraps - USA 3. Bluelightz - Indonesia 4. Probulous - Great Southern Land 5. Snarfs - Kanucksland 6. rgTheSchworz - Romania 7. Misder - Fairy Land AKA who the fucks knows 8. Pandain - USA 9. Palmar - Iceland 10. Sandroba - USA 11. TheToast - USA 12. Adam4167 - Land Down under 13. A Killer Cuppa Tea - Neighbours with Misder 14. deconduo - Ireland
This is what I have for countries based on profiles. Misder and Tea where are you boys based?
Arguing with Misder about lynching liars and lurkers is unproductive. We all knew beforehand that most players were gonna be US-based, so why bother with a list? Besides,duh, its in the profile, and we only have 14 players, not veery hard to remember. This ,,friendly chat,, provides the opportunity for scum to blend in perfectly.They arent forced in any way to react scummy, and can just sheep the towniest around.Your spam, Probulous, doesnt inspire me, because indeed it is spam.If we are gonna discuss strategy, then let it be based on names, which we can hold accountable on further days.
If not, just vote between posting. A feeler vote D1 is absolutely justified,as long as you are willing to change who you are voting for once you have a strong suspicion.It provides pressure on normally presureless D1 s for scum.Waiting for scum to fuck up is lame, lets make em fuck up.
Ive randomed a purely awesome role this game.
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On March 01 2012 16:28 rgTheSchworz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2012 13:02 sandroba wrote: I'm kinda bore with Lynch all Liars/Lurkers talk. This game we shall try something new: Lynch whoever I tell you to lynch and win. It works wonders. Your chances of surviving another night are now halved,sir.
Why is this?
Granted hes trolling, but I don't see why this statement would make anyone any more or less likely to kill him.
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Iceland22590 Posts
yo guys, I rolled Vanilla Townie.
Also, I think sandroba's plan is actually excellent.
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Iceland22590 Posts
like seriously, if sandroba or I turn out to be town, you should probably just do whatever we tell you to do.
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On March 01 2012 18:55 Palmar wrote: like seriously, if sandroba or I turn out to be town, you should probably just do whatever we tell you to do.
You roll scum this game Palmar? If you were town, you would know it. You wouldn't "turn out to be town".
@rg. Ok you have felt me. Honestly what is a feeler? Call me when you're serious.
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Iceland22590 Posts
Do you think that's a valid question Probulous? Do you honestly think I would scumslip? The obvious (and correct) explanation was that I meant post-death. ie: if I get shot and flip, please re-read what I said and consider that I may have been right.
However, the fact that you jump on it is interesting to me, and why do you do it in such a soft way? Do you actually think that I might be scum because of this? Or are you just looking for an easy opportunity to discredit me?
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OK, how are we meant to do whatever you tell us to do if you meant after your death?
Do you plan on communicating from beyond the grave?
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On March 01 2012 12:41 Probulous wrote: Thanks for the reminder Adam. For reference
Player List: 1. Jackal58 - USA 2. Paperscraps - USA 3. Bluelightz - Indonesia 4. Probulous - Great Southern Land 5. Snarfs - Kanucksland 6. rgTheSchworz - Romania 7. Misder - Fairy Land AKA who the fucks knows 8. Pandain - USA 9. Palmar - Iceland 10. Sandroba - USA 11. TheToast - USA 12. Adam4167 - Land Down under 13. A Killer Cuppa Tea - Neighbours with Misder 14. deconduo - Ireland
This is what I have for countries based on profiles. Misder and Tea where are you boys based?
I'm from the UK. I'm also preeeeeetty fucking hungover right now. Drank way too much last night.
As for policy talk, it's not only non-productive, it's also potentially harming in that it may help scum figure out how we scum hunt and use that information against us. If you have your own personal "policies", sure, but don't lynch based purely on them.
In fact, the only policy that i am even willing to discuss is "Always Lynch/NoLynch is Bad (except in MYLO).
Finally, Vote: Probulus
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I know you're just going to reiterate what you already said 'please reread what i said and consider that i may have been right'
But doesn't that just go without saying? Isn't that what everyone does when a townie flips? consider that they may have been right
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Iceland22590 Posts
That's dumb.
No, what I mean is that for some reason it's still a viable strategy for mafia on TL to shoot good townies because the derp townies will ignore what the good townies had to say once the good townies are dead, and pursue their own bad ideas. What I am suggesting for this game is that whenever a townie, especially a recognizable good town player like myself or sandroba, flips, people go back and re-read their suspicions and concerns.
Mafia needs to not be able to get away with just killing the people who happen to be right, and then relying on the rest just being wrong and derping their way to a loss.
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Iceland22590 Posts
On March 01 2012 20:34 Adam4167 wrote: I know you're just going to reiterate what you already said 'please reread what i said and consider that i may have been right'
But doesn't that just go without saying? Isn't that what everyone does when a townie flips? consider that they may have been right
That's what should happen, not what usually actually happens. Remember xlviii where syllogism the vigilante flipped and it was basically certain that he tried to shoot annul (the mafia who claimed taking a hit) during the night. I read syllo's posts and saw that he was most likely correct about annul, however rest of town simply ignored the case, and syllo wasn't alive to help me push it.
Honestly, the most help I got that game in support of my theory that syllo was right was from sandroba (the scum) who felt that he had to agree to me because disagreeing was so dumb that it'd give him away. Thankfully for mafia, the rest of town WERE THAT DUMB, and the game imploded.
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Whaddup, Hydralisk icon.
Killer Cup, what exactly are you voting for Probulous for?
From what I gather from your post, its because he was discussing policy. If that's the case, why not vote for myself, or Misder, or bluelightz? we were all discussing policy. Why single out Probulous specifically? You then go on to say you're willing to talk about another policy.
Please, be clear with your reasons. As it stands I find your vote contradictory and bandwagony.
Plus, you messed up the voting format and Probulous name.
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Town has Multiple minds at their disposal. Palmar, you are not Flash or some other god. If you flip town, we will surely take a look at your filter,but I will not take your opinion for granted. I havent seen a good town game from either you or sandro. What is a fact is that you gather support quite quickly-people pointed you as town in WW2, which I did not believe it was the case.With 2 scum factions on top of that, it was quite obvious that one would go after the other at daytime.
Derp townies always exist, though here they re not a majority. Why so serious?Calm down.Vets are vets, but if scum takes over town leadership.......Lets say that it might be troublesome.
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Yeah, and Mr Hydra, I rolled something awesome this game, so I can make Sandro and others pay for their cockiness. Plus,saying ,, listen to me and only to me'' is somewhat scummy. Scum's disadvantage is numbers, so if even half the town turns out to be useful, then we re going the right way, regardless of who s scum.They will not have a majority in even that group.
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Just some random stuff but, Misder played in TL Mafia XXX :p
So, Let's start discussing more stuff!
I Agree with Adam, why are you voting Prob? I don't see how discussing stuff(In this case LAL) causes much harm unless we actually adopt said policy.
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Ok, spam this post out, will ya? I'm also waiting for Cup to get undrunk, ya know, to see if his opinion stands. ATM hes scummy, I am considering voting for him. Wagoning without a reason and saying policy lynches give off our strat?.He doesnt make sense.
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Iceland22590 Posts
you see, until you start making sense rgTS, I don't value your opinions. If you actually think saying "listen to me and only me" has some indication of that player's alignment, your opinions don't matter.
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Have your opinions, I make sense.
You see, Scum are more likely to do that since if Town becomes scum-led, the game really becomes simple from their POV.They just have to mislead a few days and leave no trails and Voila.
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Iceland22590 Posts
It's very, very, very rare that a town is lead by scum. Almost always the most vocal people are going to be town. I can't remember the last time I played in a game that was being actively bossed around by scum. I guess wherebugsgo is like the one example of someone who really can fuck with towns.
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Iceland22590 Posts
Sandroba did you roll scum or are you just doing your bored townie impression?
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Iceland22590 Posts
If you don't talk to me I'll lynch you, you know I can tell when you're scum.
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Sleeping Now good night people.
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My 2 suspects so far are Probulous and Misder:
On March 01 2012 12:19 Misder wrote: Awww, so slow...
1). I like lynch all liars. Lynch one lurker on Day 1 if needed- analysis takes care of the rest. I like analysis.
2).
LAL, like most policy lynches, is a massively stupid idea. There are situations where a good move is to lie, blue claiming/softclaiming to draw hits for example.
On March 01 2012 12:18 Probulous wrote: ROFL, the only one who posts is the one who shouldn't be lurking. Great start!
LAL is a stupid policy and so is discussing it. The whole point of mafia is to make decisions based on the evidence in game. Having premade policy's that by their very nature preclude taking each circumstance on its merits, is stupid. I will not support a LAL policy. I doubt anyone would.
LAL is dumb, however discussing it isn't bad at all. It gets people talking day 1 when there's no elections to stir things up. You shouldn't shoot down discussion of anything just because you disagree with it.
On March 01 2012 12:41 Probulous wrote: Thanks for the reminder Adam. For reference
Player List: 1. Jackal58 - USA 2. Paperscraps - USA 3. Bluelightz - Indonesia 4. Probulous - Great Southern Land 5. Snarfs - Kanucksland 6. rgTheSchworz - Romania 7. Misder - Fairy Land AKA who the fucks knows 8. Pandain - USA 9. Palmar - Iceland 10. Sandroba - USA 11. TheToast - USA 12. Adam4167 - Land Down under 13. A Killer Cuppa Tea - Neighbours with Misder 14. deconduo - Ireland
This is what I have for countries based on profiles. Misder and Tea where are you boys based?
Making pointless lists sets off my scumdar like crazy.
On March 01 2012 13:33 Probulous wrote: @Misder
I am not advocating analysing a lie. We all agree that lieing is scummy. That is all I meant by using it as a piece of data. Town should not lie unless they absolutely have to and have damn good reasons for it. If you do, it should be counted as evidence towards you being mafia. That is all, just another brick in the wall so to speak. Your case should stand on its own regardless of the lie. If the liar can't show why they did it and they looked scummy already then yes they should be lynched, but be aware that is not a policy lynch.
Good post, good points.
On March 01 2012 13:51 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2012 13:39 TheToast wrote:On March 01 2012 13:28 Probulous wrote: @Toast, did you read my response? I have now :D Pandain's point is valid none-the-less. We need to avoid getting sidetracked. That's all I was trying to say. See this bugs me. It is the same for Pandain. I am trying to get people to post. I am actively pushing the thread along as best I can. What exactly do we have to avoid here? We are not on a track. I agree with Sandroba that policy talk is useless but it was brought up and I responded to those that asked me questions. However both of you guys are saying that I am spamming the thread with useless information. When I respond with my reasoning, neither of you acknowledge it. Pandain then ignores it and suggests that because I took "so long" writing it, I am hiding something. How do those things go together? Pandain calls me out for posting too much, but I am hiding something? Does anyone else find this strange?
Scummy post. You are getting overly defensive over one small accusation from Pandain and a post by Toast that wasn't even directed at you. Its easy to post a lot of fluff as mafia, without actually saying anything significant. Your list of people/countries is a good example of a filler post. Stop trying to post so much and worry more about the content of your posts. You're not inspiring me so far.
On March 01 2012 12:52 Misder wrote: And then what. "But maybe he had a reason to lie! He could have been doing <insert WIFOM here> and actually been trying to help town!" Do you think it's going to be net beneficial for town to have to deal with this crap (excuse the language) than for the supposed reason to lie? I don't think so.
On March 01 2012 13:25 Misder wrote: If you think you can analyze lying as a piece of data correctly, go right ahead. Don't blame me when scum tricks you.
On March 01 2012 13:39 Misder wrote: Again, go right ahead w/ your analysis. If you believe that you can tell if scum is lying about having good reasons or even that town had good reasons to lie, fine.
Using WIFOM as an excuse to push LAL is pretty weak. The only justification for LAL is a universal rule to punish lying in any game. It only works if its used in every game. As it never has enough support in TL games its pointless to try and implement now. Your posts so far this game have been short and one dimensional.
##Vote Misder
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I'm doing my just woke up impression. So far I want to lynch pandain, what about you?
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Iceland22590 Posts
I don't have any strong feelings one way or the other.
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Iceland22590 Posts
There is one confirmed townie in the game Sandroba, if you can find him I won't lynch you.
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Iceland22590 Posts
I think that analysis is surprisingly bad deconduo. Why is it so bad? Can you explain that to me?
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On March 01 2012 16:28 rgTheSchworz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2012 13:02 sandroba wrote: I'm kinda bore with Lynch all Liars/Lurkers talk. This game we shall try something new: Lynch whoever I tell you to lynch and win. It works wonders. Your chances of surviving another night are now halved,sir. Best way to start this is with a feeler vote, so ##Vote: Probulous Show nested quote +On March 01 2012 12:41 Probulous wrote: Thanks for the reminder Adam. For reference
Player List: 1. Jackal58 - USA 2. Paperscraps - USA 3. Bluelightz - Indonesia 4. Probulous - Great Southern Land 5. Snarfs - Kanucksland 6. rgTheSchworz - Romania 7. Misder - Fairy Land AKA who the fucks knows 8. Pandain - USA 9. Palmar - Iceland 10. Sandroba - USA 11. TheToast - USA 12. Adam4167 - Land Down under 13. A Killer Cuppa Tea - Neighbours with Misder 14. deconduo - Ireland
This is what I have for countries based on profiles. Misder and Tea where are you boys based? Arguing with Misder about lynching liars and lurkers is unproductive. We all knew beforehand that most players were gonna be US-based, so why bother with a list? Besides,duh, its in the profile, and we only have 14 players, not veery hard to remember. This ,,friendly chat,, provides the opportunity for scum to blend in perfectly.They arent forced in any way to react scummy, and can just sheep the towniest around.Your spam, Probulous, doesnt inspire me, because indeed it is spam.If we are gonna discuss strategy, then let it be based on names, which we can hold accountable on further days. If not, just vote between posting. A feeler vote D1 is absolutely justified,as long as you are willing to change who you are voting for once you have a strong suspicion.It provides pressure on normally presureless D1 s for scum.Waiting for scum to fuck up is lame, lets make em fuck up. Good post up to this point. Calling out Probu for posting a pointless list is spot on. However..Ive randomed a purely awesome role this game. .. I really hate when people do this.
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On March 02 2012 01:12 Palmar wrote: I think that analysis is surprisingly bad deconduo. Why is it so bad? Can you explain that to me?
Dunno I'm going through filters so I might be missing the order in which things were posted. I'm just reading the game for the first time now.
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Iceland22590 Posts
There is nothing wrong with making a list, you guys are insane.
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Iceland22590 Posts
On March 02 2012 01:14 deconduo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 01:12 Palmar wrote: I think that analysis is surprisingly bad deconduo. Why is it so bad? Can you explain that to me? Dunno I'm going through filters so I might be missing the order in which things were posted. I'm just reading the game for the first time now.
So you agree it's bad?
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It doesn't matter if LaL is stupid or not we will talk about it when/if it becomes a problem. I don't mind any of the people that start talking about it because I realize we have to start at something and it's as good as any starting subject but that's it. I agree that the list is pointless but, I wouldn't touch on probulous right now as he is posting a lot and trying to get things moving.
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Iceland22590 Posts
On March 02 2012 01:15 sandroba wrote: It doesn't matter if LaL is stupid or not we will talk about it when/if it becomes a problem. I don't mind any of the people that start talking about it because I realize we have to start at something and it's as good as any starting subject but that's it. I agree that the list is pointless but, I wouldn't touch on probulous right now as he is posting a lot and trying to get things moving.
Less posting, more proving you're town by finding the one confirmed townie in the game. (pro-tip: it's not me)
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Sorry no one is confirmed townie to me so far. You certainly not.
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On March 02 2012 01:14 Palmar wrote: There is nothing wrong with making a list, you guys are insane.
Do you want me to show you how often scum make pointless lists in games? Its the most obvious filler you can make, because it a massive important looking post that adds absolutely nothing to the game.
On March 02 2012 01:15 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 01:14 deconduo wrote:On March 02 2012 01:12 Palmar wrote: I think that analysis is surprisingly bad deconduo. Why is it so bad? Can you explain that to me? Dunno I'm going through filters so I might be missing the order in which things were posted. I'm just reading the game for the first time now. So you agree it's bad?
No, I have no idea why YOU think its bad.
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Iceland22590 Posts
well, there's one guy in the thread who's almost certainly town. If you can't find him you're scum.
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Iceland22590 Posts
On March 02 2012 01:18 deconduo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 01:14 Palmar wrote: There is nothing wrong with making a list, you guys are insane. Do you want me to show you how often scum make pointless lists in games? Its the most obvious filler you can make, because it a massive important looking post that adds absolutely nothing to the game. Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 01:15 Palmar wrote:On March 02 2012 01:14 deconduo wrote:On March 02 2012 01:12 Palmar wrote: I think that analysis is surprisingly bad deconduo. Why is it so bad? Can you explain that to me? Dunno I'm going through filters so I might be missing the order in which things were posted. I'm just reading the game for the first time now. So you agree it's bad? No, I have no idea why YOU think its bad.
Yeah, please show me examples of scum making fluffy lists.
And I think it's bad because none of the things you mentioned say anything about the alignment of the players in question. It doesn't mean they're town, it just means that your analysis is invalid. For example, you're being massively dumb and saying LAL is stupid when it isn't (I'm not going to argue this, I'm right). However that tells me very little about your alignment.
While the posts you quoted from both probulous and misder do reflect something about them, what you pointed out certainly isn't it.
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On March 02 2012 01:18 Palmar wrote: well, there's one guy in the thread who's almost certainly town. If you can't find him you're scum. That makes a lot of sense. Even if I have leaning town reads I'm not going to share it unless trying to stop a lynch and certainly not to prove to anyone I'm town.
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Iceland22590 Posts
lol, you so scum.
Please post more so I can prove it to the rest of the thread.
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On March 02 2012 01:10 sandroba wrote: I'm doing my just woke up impression. So far I want to lynch pandain, what about you? I hate this because scum can copy it so easily and get away. Thats why I want you dead ASAP. And i may have the power to do so... Tonight.
Explain, why Pandain?
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Iceland22590 Posts
Sharing town reads isn't bad, it's just something some scum invented at some point in order to not have to call either their teammates or townies town. One incriminates them when either flips, and the other is bad because it limits their options.
I think it's very likely rgTS is town from his posting so far in the thread. It's not unreasonable that you didn't find him because you're not looking for it in the same way I am, we are different people after all. The problem is the reasoning you gave for not looking for or sharing your town reads.
##Vote Sandroba
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And that guy whos town is clearly me, lol. I have access to my role PM, you dont. Hack me if you can.
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Palmar posted at the same time.
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On March 02 2012 01:21 Palmar wrote: Yeah, please show me examples of scum making fluffy lists.
PYP3 LSB posts lists all through day 1. Bum posts 2 lists as well. Both are scum. No one else posts lists. Its happened in at least one other game I've played but I can't find it. Because no one does it. Because its scummy.
On March 02 2012 01:21 Palmar wrote: And I think it's bad because none of the things you mentioned say anything about the alignment of the players in question. It doesn't mean they're town, it just means that your analysis is invalid. For example, you're being massively dumb and saying LAL is stupid when it isn't (I'm not going to argue this, I'm right). However that tells me very little about your alignment.
LAL is stupid. It only works if its applied to every single player in every single game. Arguing about LAL doesn't indicate alignment, thats correct. However when someone like Misder makes a bunch of oneliners about LAL, while not actually making any good argument about it, and doesn't post anything else in the game. That is scummy, and thats why I'm voting for him.
On March 02 2012 01:21 Palmar wrote: While the posts you quoted from both probulous and misder do reflect something about them, what you pointed out certainly isn't it.
If you think I'm wrong, point out why. Don't say I'm wrong and not elaborate, its pointless. If you're town you should be explaining your opinions rather than brick walling.
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Probulous is town Palmar is null rg is town
deconduo is scum for his horrible reads so far
Vote: deconduo
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On March 01 2012 20:54 Adam4167 wrote: Whaddup, Hydralisk icon.
Killer Cup, what exactly are you voting for Probulous for?
From what I gather from your post, its because he was discussing policy. If that's the case, why not vote for myself, or Misder, or bluelightz? we were all discussing policy. Why single out Probulous specifically? You then go on to say you're willing to talk about another policy.
Please, be clear with your reasons. As it stands I find your vote contradictory and bandwagony.
Plus, you messed up the voting format and Probulous name. I blame the alcohol.
Also, I'm voting Probulous because of a hunch that basically arose from "we should lynch all lurkers" and then proceeding to spam it up. Looks like it could potentially be scum diverting attention from himself, like.
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EBWOP: also, the majority of his posts had been town-sounding mechanics/theory posts which are incredibly easy for scum to make to help themselves look a lot townier (it's a good strategy!), but very little in the way of actual scumhunting, so they don't have to worry about statements that can come back and haunt them later.
Certain things are always "correct" in a game of mafia. Lurking benefits mafia. No Lynching is bad. Etc... You can't fault a guy for saying something along them lines. But if he Coles out today and says "wow, X is so totally townie"'and X later flips scum, it'll be held against him. By actively posting "correct" mafia theories, it's easy townpoints to be gained.
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Since the conversation seems stalled I think it's a good time to ask a noob question:
Is the SK more likely to be of benefit to the town or the mafia during the beginning, middle, and late parts of the game and why? What's his mindset? Is it right to assume he is trying to kill players with KP first?
In case you're wondering my motives for asking the question: Understanding each role's motives/mindset helps to uncover the players assuming these roles. Mafia and town are fairly obvious, but I still don't know about the SK (aside from the destroy all humans factor).
Also, feel free to berate me for asking such a question. I'm still learning and it'd be good to know if this is not something I should be asking.
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it s probable that we dont have an SK. Either way, he is town at first, cause Mafia are his enemies. He doesnt want to end up alone Vs scum, cuz scum know who s scum and can find him pretty easily. So, Mr SK, we lynch u after all scum have gone,ok?
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United States5684 Posts
vote like this and so on and so forth
##vote Mattchew
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Pandain is likely scum because of his entry in the thread.
On March 01 2012 12:45 Pandain wrote:I was going to go to sleep but I had to say it. Probulous stop spamming the thread. Your pulling a Pandain and making the whole thread a shitfest of spam. Why does it matter where people are? Why do you say a post to say "hey is anyone here?" If you keep spamming the thread, it creates a bad atmosphere that hurts the town. I'm too tired to explain but just stop posting if it doesn't have a real purpose, and never post if your just bored. + Show Spoiler + On a separate note, have you played much mafia here?
Only contributes to spam. Keep outside conversations outside. Somehow he is tired to post anything productive, but not tired enough to make a fake contribution saying doing something to get the thread going is wrong. Unlike probulous which I believe was trying to somehow produce content, his post is exactly what he accuses probulous of doing, which is posting with no purpose just to appear to be contributing. Town has no reason to do that and suggest nothing better to discuss.
##Vote: Pandain
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On March 02 2012 04:16 sandroba wrote:Pandain is likely scum because of his entry in the thread. Show nested quote +On March 01 2012 12:45 Pandain wrote:I was going to go to sleep but I had to say it. Probulous stop spamming the thread. Your pulling a Pandain and making the whole thread a shitfest of spam. Why does it matter where people are? Why do you say a post to say "hey is anyone here?" If you keep spamming the thread, it creates a bad atmosphere that hurts the town. I'm too tired to explain but just stop posting if it doesn't have a real purpose, and never post if your just bored. + Show Spoiler + On a separate note, have you played much mafia here?
Only contributes to spam. Keep outside conversations outside. Somehow he is tired to post anything productive, but not tired enough to make a fake contribution saying doing something to get the thread going is wrong. Unlike probulous which I believe was trying to somehow produce content, his post is exactly what he accuses probulous of doing, which is posting with no purpose just to appear to be contributing. Town has no reason to do that and suggest nothing better to discuss. ##Vote: Pandain I don't think this is reason enough to vote Pandain. He's calling Prob out on talking about where people live and saying "hey is anyone here?" (Pandain's quote, not mine). He's not calling him out for talking about things like policy or how to catch scum. Plus, if you look at TL Mafia XXXVIII where he rolls town-side he makes a similar post:
On April 09 2011 08:10 Pandain wrote: Alright broskis, let's get some things straight.
1.No Spam To paraphrase Ver, to spam is almost as bad as being useless, sometimes even more so. In fact, I will probably be either lynching a "inactive" or a very spammy person. I have no idea how town nearly won last game(Insane mafia.) That game was a shitfest, and seriously analysis was a drop of water in the desert there. You don't need to share every thought you have. Just don't be inactive, and don't post 70x the amount in a LR thread, and you'll be good.
Why are you so quick to jump on him for posting something that typifies his town play?
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EBWOP:
Not enought reason to lynch him. (Rather than vote in my first sentence).
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You only quoted part of his post in that game. What makes me believe that is a scum post is the way it's written and the lack of follow up. Why does it bother you that I'm voting pandain?
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It bothers me because
A) It didn't seem like enough reason to lynch somebody based on the quote I gave and B) Based on the lynch rules, it seems like we have to be a bit more careful with throwing around votes without gathering as much info as possible.
I could be mistaken on B though, and if I am I would appreciate you letting me know.
To follow up though, what part of the rest of the quote in that game which I left out changes the context of what he was saying?
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That game he is running for office and talking about policy of lynching people that lurk or spam the thread. The tone on this way different: It's pls guys don't spam gg I'm out. So tired sorry. My hunches on scum are based on subtleties but they are more often then not correct.
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On March 02 2012 01:18 deconduo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 01:14 Palmar wrote: There is nothing wrong with making a list, you guys are insane. Do you want me to show you how often scum make pointless lists in games? Its the most obvious filler you can make, because it a massive important looking post that adds absolutely nothing to the game. Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 01:15 Palmar wrote:On March 02 2012 01:14 deconduo wrote:On March 02 2012 01:12 Palmar wrote: I think that analysis is surprisingly bad deconduo. Why is it so bad? Can you explain that to me? Dunno I'm going through filters so I might be missing the order in which things were posted. I'm just reading the game for the first time now. So you agree it's bad? No, I have no idea why YOU think its bad.
Decon, are you seriously saying that my list was the only thing I contributed to this game? Because that is the only way it could be used to drive an agenda. To make it look like I was contributing while actually posting nothing. Well so far I pointed out Pandain's scummy attempt to undermine me, Palmar's "scumslip" (I don't believe it, just needed a response) and I had the discussion with Misder which convinced you he was scum. How can you cast suspicion on me for hiding?
It should be clear to everyone that the list was made early game to help people be aware of timezones. That is all. How that is scummy I will never know.
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On March 01 2012 20:27 Palmar wrote: Do you think that's a valid question Probulous? Do you honestly think I would scumslip? The obvious (and correct) explanation was that I meant post-death. ie: if I get shot and flip, please re-read what I said and consider that I may have been right.
However, the fact that you jump on it is interesting to me, and why do you do it in such a soft way? Do you actually think that I might be scum because of this? Or are you just looking for an easy opportunity to discredit me?
Here is what you wrote.
On March 01 2012 18:55 Palmar wrote: like seriously, if sandroba or I turn out to be town, you should probably just do whatever we tell you to do.
Note that you finish the sentence in present tense (bolded). How can you tell us anything after death? If that is what you meant the sentence doesn't make sense. Secondly the reason I asked in a soft manner is exactly because I don't think you would slip so easily. It's not an attempt at discrediting you, it was to get a reaction and a response. I like your follow up though
On March 02 2012 00:12 Palmar wrote: Sandroba did you roll scum or are you just doing your bored townie impression?
Hypocrisy much? Same tone, same soft manner.
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On March 02 2012 03:29 A Killer Cuppa Tea wrote: EBWOP: also, the majority of his posts had been town-sounding mechanics/theory posts which are incredibly easy for scum to make to help themselves look a lot townier (it's a good strategy!), but very little in the way of actual scumhunting, so they don't have to worry about statements that can come back and haunt them later.
Certain things are always "correct" in a game of mafia. Lurking benefits mafia. No Lynching is bad. Etc... You can't fault a guy for saying something along them lines. But if he Coles out today and says "wow, X is so totally townie"'and X later flips scum, it'll be held against him. By actively posting "correct" mafia theories, it's easy townpoints to be gained.
Tea, in all your posts you have not been able even once to explain how my actions are mafia driven. You entire case is that I have been saying the right things. How does that make me mafia? You my friend have started with a conclusion and then made your argument based on it.
What scumhunting have you done? You sheeped RG's terrible analysis on me and have called me out for providing nothing. See my decon post for my rebuttal to that silly idea. You sir better shape up because right now you are being hypocritical and targeting me with aweful logic, both of those make you scum in my book.
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Lest I forget
##vote AKillerCuppaTea
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On March 02 2012 06:59 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 03:29 A Killer Cuppa Tea wrote: EBWOP: also, the majority of his posts had been town-sounding mechanics/theory posts which are incredibly easy for scum to make to help themselves look a lot townier (it's a good strategy!), but very little in the way of actual scumhunting, so they don't have to worry about statements that can come back and haunt them later.
Certain things are always "correct" in a game of mafia. Lurking benefits mafia. No Lynching is bad. Etc... You can't fault a guy for saying something along them lines. But if he Coles out today and says "wow, X is so totally townie"'and X later flips scum, it'll be held against him. By actively posting "correct" mafia theories, it's easy townpoints to be gained. Tea, in all your posts you have not been able even once to explain how my actions are mafia driven. You entire case is that I have been saying the right things. How does that make me mafia? You my friend have started with a conclusion and then made your argument based on it. What scumhunting have you done? You sheeped RG's terrible analysis on me and have called me out for providing nothing. See my decon post for my rebuttal to that silly idea. You sir better shape up because right now you are being hypocritical and targeting me with aweful logic, both of those make you scum in my book.
nooo...? I think you're doing scummy things.
There's a difference between doing townie things and trying to do townie things.
And also different types of "townie" things.
See, people are often confused that only townies can say things that are beneficial for townies. I've caught out so many scum who spend their time with mechanics based posts but virtually no scumhunting.
However, your rebuttal of my pressure on you (ie, starting scumhunting) is a good start.
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I believe Probulous is town, or at least not scummy enough to lynch day 1. He's way too active/aggressive I feel for him to be mafia, although I'll have to look at his previous games for confirmation.
I'm most suspicious of The_Toast. Contrary to his last game as town, (filter HERE) he is much more taciturn this game.
Compare that with his current posts. All hes done is agree with what others said, and justify his own views(almost guiltily/apolegtic.)
Pandain's point is valid none-the-less. We need to avoid getting sidetracked. That's all I was trying to say.
I would say why don't we wait for a few hours and see if we actually have any lurkers. And obvious scum should still be lynched first day one, if there are really no good candidates I would say then we should consider lynching a lurker. But in that case the lurker would be the best candidate, so I still say lynches need to be based on good analysis.
I reiterate: silly lynch rules really only benefit scum. Logical analysis first please. generic, "pro town" advice.
wasn't trying to specifically call you out. See the first word in that bolded sentence? "WE" As in ALL of us, together, need to avoid getting side tracked. I'm also unsure how you get me accusing you of "spamming" from me saying we need to avoid getting side tracked.
And to be fair, you did start a side conversation with Misder. I don't know that constitutes "spamming", but it's not going to lead to posts that can provide good analysis one way or the other. Just saying.
I wasn't trying to say you were spamming, I don't know why you are being so defensive about this. Pandain made a point about avoiding outside conversation in the thread, I agreed with that point. I wasn't trying to accuse you of anything. So no, I don't have a problem with it.
And you're right, I do try to think logically. As such I don't think two posts by themselves are enough to prove anyone as scum. #vote the Toast
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Whilst I am enjoying Toast being more "taciturn" this game you are correct in that it is a change of style. What he actually says makes sense though. I think he didn't enjoy getting pulled into a back and forth with me about stuff he didn't think was significant. That was my understanding when I dropped it.
Pandain, what do you think about the others that jumped on your suggestion that I was spamming? Specifically RG and AKCT (tea, whatever he wants to be called).
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RG is either blue(lets put it out there, he basically claimed blue), townie trying to pull off a badass plan, or a badass mafia trying to pull off an even more badass plan.
Given that I don't think mafia would ever have the balls to fake claim blue day 1, I'm going to have to go with townie/blue. Speaking of which, if theres a watcher out there watch RG because mafia are going to try to kill him unless we have someone watching him.
AKCT hasn't done anything scummy. At least not anything that we can pinpoint definitively too. Right now your just clouded by the fact they both accused you, and you probably think anyone who supports you is town to. That's a dangerous, oftentimes wrong assumption to make. The_Toast, to the best of day1 analysis can go, is our best bet for right now.
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On March 02 2012 08:26 Pandain wrote: AKCT hasn't done anything scummy. At least not anything that we can pinpoint definitively too. Right now your just clouded by the fact they both accused you, and you probably think anyone who supports you is town to. That's a dangerous, oftentimes wrong assumption to make. The_Toast, to the best of day1 analysis can go, is our best bet for right now.
I agree on RG. If you have courage take a look at Arkham City (Adam rolls his eyes). He claimed everything under the sun and looked scummy as hell but ended up being a regular vet. The fact that he put together an atrocious case on me and called it so makes him pretty much town in my eyes. Weird play but produced some interesting results.
Tea however jumped at the opportunity to call me scum when everyone else who pushed me, never did. RG clearly didn't believe I was scum or he would have pushed much harder but tea sheeps. Then he tries to explain his sheep with the worst possible logic available. He could be townie who doesn't know what is going on, but if that is the case why jump at me? He wants to look like he is contributing when he isn't.
I am fully aware that townies will target other townies. That happens all the time, that is why people's motivations for posting are important. From what I have seen from Tea he wants to look like he is contributing without contributing. Hence my suspicion. The fact that it was me is irrelevant.
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On March 02 2012 07:51 Pandain wrote:I believe Probulous is town, or at least not scummy enough to lynch day 1. He's way too active/aggressive I feel for him to be mafia, although I'll have to look at his previous games for confirmation. I'm most suspicious of The_Toast. Contrary to his last game as town, (filter HERE) he is much more taciturn this game. Compare that with his current posts. All hes done is agree with what others said, and justify his own views(almost guiltily/apolegtic.) Show nested quote + Pandain's point is valid none-the-less. We need to avoid getting sidetracked. That's all I was trying to say. Show nested quote + I would say why don't we wait for a few hours and see if we actually have any lurkers. And obvious scum should still be lynched first day one, if there are really no good candidates I would say then we should consider lynching a lurker. But in that case the lurker would be the best candidate, so I still say lynches need to be based on good analysis.
I reiterate: silly lynch rules really only benefit scum. Logical analysis first please. generic, "pro town" advice. Show nested quote + wasn't trying to specifically call you out. See the first word in that bolded sentence? "WE" As in ALL of us, together, need to avoid getting side tracked. I'm also unsure how you get me accusing you of "spamming" from me saying we need to avoid getting side tracked.
And to be fair, you did start a side conversation with Misder. I don't know that constitutes "spamming", but it's not going to lead to posts that can provide good analysis one way or the other. Just saying. Show nested quote + I wasn't trying to say you were spamming, I don't know why you are being so defensive about this. Pandain made a point about avoiding outside conversation in the thread, I agreed with that point. I wasn't trying to accuse you of anything. So no, I don't have a problem with it.
And you're right, I do try to think logically. As such I don't think two posts by themselves are enough to prove anyone as scum. #vote the Toast
Let me get this straight. You think I'm scum because I'm being too nice? Based on what, the one* other game of mafia I've played? Well then, why don't you take a closer look at that game, you might see that I didn't post any serious analysis or votes until like 24 hours into the game. I prefer to wait until there is a good amount of evidence before making any votes or claims. And why does agreeing with you contribute to my scumminess? Are you now suddenly in favor of conversations that side track the game? Or just in favor of lynching people who agree with you about avoiding conversations that side track the thread? I love how you quoted me defending you against Probe's accusation as well. Excellent evidence you have provided.
Pandain right now you have 4 posts in this game. You called out Probulous with some vague accusations:
On March 01 2012 12:57 Pandain wrote: That took a long time to post. Are you hiding something?
Then after both probe and sandroba call you out on this, you've very next post is--not responding to either of these--but rather to come out claiming Probulous is town--without a single shred of evidence or analysis--and claiming that I am scum based on scant evidence. Then post #4, have you addressed probe or sandroba's accusations? Nope. You tell Probe (who again, has not mysteriously become townish) that his vote on AKCoT is bad and that tunneling me is the best bet.
Pandain, right now I still don't think there is enough evidence against you to make a scum call; but it looks to me like you are desperately trying to focus attention off of yourself.
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On March 02 2012 08:55 TheToast wrote: Pandain, right now I still don't think there is enough evidence against you to make a scum call; but it looks to me like you are desperately trying to focus attention off of yourself.
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On March 02 2012 08:49 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 08:26 Pandain wrote: AKCT hasn't done anything scummy. At least not anything that we can pinpoint definitively too. Right now your just clouded by the fact they both accused you, and you probably think anyone who supports you is town to. That's a dangerous, oftentimes wrong assumption to make. The_Toast, to the best of day1 analysis can go, is our best bet for right now. I agree on RG. If you have courage take a look at Arkham City (Adam rolls his eyes). He claimed everything under the sun and looked scummy as hell but ended up being a regular vet. The fact that he put together an atrocious case on me and called it so makes him pretty much town in my eyes. Weird play but produced some interesting results. Tea however jumped at the opportunity to call me scum when everyone else who pushed me, never did. RG clearly didn't believe I was scum or he would have pushed much harder but tea sheeps. Then he tries to explain his sheep with the worst possible logic available. He could be townie who doesn't know what is going on, but if that is the case why jump at me? He wants to look like he is contributing when he isn't. I am fully aware that townies will target other townies. That happens all the time, that is why people's motivations for posting are important. From what I have seen from Tea he wants to look like he is contributing without contributing. Hence my suspicion. The fact that it was me is irrelevant.
AKCT isn't actingi scummy. What was his first post? A vote of you with no explanation. Mafia would never ever EVER do that, that's so suspicious. Mafia are usually careful, and reticent in demeanor(part of why I think The_Toast is mafia). Theres one thing I have suspicions about but as of yet I'm waiting to see what he does about it, and telling him will ruin it. As of now I feel any evidence regarding AKCT is speculative, while more conclusive evidence is elsewhere.
Toast's latest response is more interesting actually....
On March 02 2012 08:55 TheToast wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 07:51 Pandain wrote:I believe Probulous is town, or at least not scummy enough to lynch day 1. He's way too active/aggressive I feel for him to be mafia, although I'll have to look at his previous games for confirmation. I'm most suspicious of The_Toast. Contrary to his last game as town, (filter HERE) he is much more taciturn this game. Compare that with his current posts. All hes done is agree with what others said, and justify his own views(almost guiltily/apolegtic.) Pandain's point is valid none-the-less. We need to avoid getting sidetracked. That's all I was trying to say. I would say why don't we wait for a few hours and see if we actually have any lurkers. And obvious scum should still be lynched first day one, if there are really no good candidates I would say then we should consider lynching a lurker. But in that case the lurker would be the best candidate, so I still say lynches need to be based on good analysis.
I reiterate: silly lynch rules really only benefit scum. Logical analysis first please. generic, "pro town" advice. wasn't trying to specifically call you out. See the first word in that bolded sentence? "WE" As in ALL of us, together, need to avoid getting side tracked. I'm also unsure how you get me accusing you of "spamming" from me saying we need to avoid getting side tracked.
And to be fair, you did start a side conversation with Misder. I don't know that constitutes "spamming", but it's not going to lead to posts that can provide good analysis one way or the other. Just saying. I wasn't trying to say you were spamming, I don't know why you are being so defensive about this. Pandain made a point about avoiding outside conversation in the thread, I agreed with that point. I wasn't trying to accuse you of anything. So no, I don't have a problem with it.
And you're right, I do try to think logically. As such I don't think two posts by themselves are enough to prove anyone as scum. #vote the Toast Let me get this straight. You think I'm scum because I'm being too nice? Based on what, the one* other game of mafia I've played? Well then, why don't you take a closer look at that game, you might see that I didn't post any serious analysis or votes until like 24 hours into the game. I prefer to wait until there is a good amount of evidence before making any votes or claims. And why does agreeing with you contribute to my scumminess? Are you now suddenly in favor of conversations that side track the game? Or just in favor of lynching people who agree with you about avoiding conversations that side track the thread? I love how you quoted me defending you against Probe's accusation as well. Excellent evidence you have provided. Pandain right now you have 4 posts in this game. You called out Probulous with some vague accusations: Show nested quote +On March 01 2012 12:57 Pandain wrote: That took a long time to post. Are you hiding something? Then after both probe and sandroba call you out on this, you've very next post is--not responding to either of these--but rather to come out claiming Probulous is town--without a single shred of evidence or analysis--and claiming that I am scum based on scant evidence. Then post #4, have you addressed probe or sandroba's accusations? Nope. You tell Probe (who again, has not mysteriously become townish) that his vote on AKCoT is bad and that tunneling me is the best bet. Pandain, right now I still don't think there is enough evidence against you to make a scum call; but it looks to me like you are desperately trying to focus attention off of yourself.
Contrast this tone with the others. Looks like hes trying hard to make a good point(with italics + bolding and shit). Not only that but while writing this post he researched other players(shown by his accusations of me, saying how I had 4 posts, noting my play).
His accusations of me mean that he could either be a trigger-happy townie, or that he's trying to downplay me. I can't determine anything out of that, actually it sort of helps his case.
This part is quite interesting though:
I love how you quoted me defending you against Probe's accusation as well. Excellent evidence you have provided. I'm interested what you meant by that, Toast. Why would you defending me lend you any town support? How would you know if I'm town?
By far though the most compelling and persuasive argument against him is the fact that he accused me, rather certainly in his opinion, that i was "desperately trying to hide something", and that I'm playing scummily. And yet overall, I'm not a good enough vote? Seems a bit of a paradox there.
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On March 02 2012 02:09 Paperscraps wrote: Probulous is town Palmar is null rg is town
deconduo is scum for his horrible reads so far
Vote: deconduo
Scumslip much? I might have bad reads, but the only way you could know they were bad is if you're scum. Especially seeing as neither read was about you.
On March 02 2012 06:45 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 01:18 deconduo wrote:On March 02 2012 01:14 Palmar wrote: There is nothing wrong with making a list, you guys are insane. Do you want me to show you how often scum make pointless lists in games? Its the most obvious filler you can make, because it a massive important looking post that adds absolutely nothing to the game. On March 02 2012 01:15 Palmar wrote:On March 02 2012 01:14 deconduo wrote:On March 02 2012 01:12 Palmar wrote: I think that analysis is surprisingly bad deconduo. Why is it so bad? Can you explain that to me? Dunno I'm going through filters so I might be missing the order in which things were posted. I'm just reading the game for the first time now. So you agree it's bad? No, I have no idea why YOU think its bad. Decon, are you seriously saying that my list was the only thing I contributed to this game? Because that is the only way it could be used to drive an agenda. To make it look like I was contributing while actually posting nothing. Well so far I pointed out Pandain's scummy attempt to undermine me, Palmar's "scumslip" (I don't believe it, just needed a response) and I had the discussion with Misder which convinced you he was scum. How can you cast suspicion on me for hiding? It should be clear to everyone that the list was made early game to help people be aware of timezones. That is all. How that is scummy I will never know.
I never said the list was the only thing you contributed, I said the complete opposite. The list didn't contribute, which is why I found it scummy. Compared to your other posts it stands out. Everyone who's played mafia before understands that people are in different timezones, and even people in the same country can be on at different times. After Adam posted this:
On March 01 2012 12:29 Adam4167 wrote: 3:30am in Iceland and Ireland right now, probably a bit hopeful that Palmar and deconduo are on. The other two may be around, depending on which US states they're in.
Welcome back Misder, second wiggles game for both of us. If you're town again, do you plan on playing out the whole game this time?
There was no need for your post, as it added nothing to the game. However your posting since has been good, so I'm not as suspicious of you anymore. I think you are wrong about teacup though.
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On March 02 2012 09:18 Pandain wrote: AKCT isn't actingi scummy. What was his first post? A vote of you with no explanation. Mafia would never ever EVER do that, that's so suspicious. Mafia are usually careful, and reticent in demeanor(part of why I think The_Toast is mafia). Theres one thing I have suspicions about but as of yet I'm waiting to see what he does about it, and telling him will ruin it. As of now I feel any evidence regarding AKCT is speculative, while more conclusive evidence is elsewhere.
You're making some big assumptions there but that is your perogative. My vote stands until he produces something of worth. I don't see Toast as scum, you neither so I will be looking elsewhere.
My logic is simple really. You insinuated I was spamming/hiding something and but never followed it up. Hence it was a fish. Those that jumped on it are trying to push and discredit me, thus they go on my scummy list until they do something that redeems them.
Adam, you've been pretty quiet this game. Your thoughts on Palmar's response to you would be nice. I'm finding him hard to read.
Finally has anyone noticed a distinct lack of Jackal about? It's almost been 24hrs and nothing. It would suck if he couldn't play.
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Didn't realize this had started.
On March 02 2012 09:19 deconduo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 02:09 Paperscraps wrote: Probulous is town Palmar is null rg is town
deconduo is scum for his horrible reads so far
Vote: deconduo Scumslip much? I might have bad reads, but the only way you could know they were bad is if you're scum. Especially seeing as neither read was about you. Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 06:45 Probulous wrote:On March 02 2012 01:18 deconduo wrote:On March 02 2012 01:14 Palmar wrote: There is nothing wrong with making a list, you guys are insane. Do you want me to show you how often scum make pointless lists in games? Its the most obvious filler you can make, because it a massive important looking post that adds absolutely nothing to the game. On March 02 2012 01:15 Palmar wrote:On March 02 2012 01:14 deconduo wrote:On March 02 2012 01:12 Palmar wrote: I think that analysis is surprisingly bad deconduo. Why is it so bad? Can you explain that to me? Dunno I'm going through filters so I might be missing the order in which things were posted. I'm just reading the game for the first time now. So you agree it's bad? No, I have no idea why YOU think its bad. Decon, are you seriously saying that my list was the only thing I contributed to this game? Because that is the only way it could be used to drive an agenda. To make it look like I was contributing while actually posting nothing. Well so far I pointed out Pandain's scummy attempt to undermine me, Palmar's "scumslip" (I don't believe it, just needed a response) and I had the discussion with Misder which convinced you he was scum. How can you cast suspicion on me for hiding? It should be clear to everyone that the list was made early game to help people be aware of timezones. That is all. How that is scummy I will never know. I never said the list was the only thing you contributed, I said the complete opposite. The list didn't contribute, which is why I found it scummy. Compared to your other posts it stands out. Everyone who's played mafia before understands that people are in different timezones, and even people in the same country can be on at different times. After Adam posted this: Show nested quote +On March 01 2012 12:29 Adam4167 wrote: 3:30am in Iceland and Ireland right now, probably a bit hopeful that Palmar and deconduo are on. The other two may be around, depending on which US states they're in.
Welcome back Misder, second wiggles game for both of us. If you're town again, do you plan on playing out the whole game this time? There was no need for your post, as it added nothing to the game. However your posting since has been good, so I'm not as suspicious of you anymore. I think you are wrong about teacup though.
I rarely agree with Decon but when I do we lynch scum.
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Let's get this game rolling and focus on one person for now. If someone lurks in the meantime, they'll only hurt themselves later. By focusing on one, we get to see the reactions of all.
Can you explain why you don't view Toast as scum? You gave a vague reason but I'm sure you have more.
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I have magic powers! I summon a Jackal and here he appears
Seriously though just for clarity's sake, what exactly do you agree with from deconduo? That paperscraps is scum?
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On March 02 2012 09:44 Probulous wrote:I have magic powers! I summon a Jackal and here he appears Seriously though just for clarity's sake, what exactly do you agree with from deconduo? That paperscraps is scum? Yes and also that your location list serves no purpose. And no, sorry, you have no magic powers.
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On March 02 2012 09:44 Pandain wrote: Let's get this game rolling and focus on one person for now. If someone lurks in the meantime, they'll only hurt themselves later. By focusing on one, we get to see the reactions of all.
Can you explain why you don't view Toast as scum? You gave a vague reason but I'm sure you have more.
Well for one he has been pretty consistent.
The more fluff, random posts in the thread, the easier it is for scum to hide. Keep it focused.
We need to avoid getting sidetracked. That's all I was trying to say
I wasn't trying to specifically call you out. See the first word in that bolded sentence? "WE" As in ALL of us, together, need to avoid getting side tracked. I'm also unsure how you get me accusing you of "spamming" from me saying we need to avoid getting side tracked.
Then he got indignant when I was needling him. I admit that my reading of his accusation was weak, I was really just seeking clarity around what he meant by "sidetracked" but he got flustered. To me this reads like someone trying to avoid a stupid argument.
I wasn't trying to say you were spamming, I don't know why you are being so defensive about this. Pandain made a point about avoiding outside conversation in the thread, I agreed with that point. I wasn't trying to accuse you of anything. So no, I don't have a problem with it. Given that was what he was trying to do from the start, it looks townie. Finally his response to your case is clear frustation. He isn't scared or submissive but rather frustrated that he can't seem to establish his innocence. It would have been much easier for him to target someone else but instead he attempts to clarify his position. His point about you quoting me looks like sarcasm.
All in all it doesn't read as scum to me.
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Paperscraps usually posts like that. Still not enough for him to be lynched D1, I d say.
I d prefer not to talk about Arkham, I had a simple plan, but it failed, due to some truth-loving townies. Still baffled that only 3rd parties managed to figure out my role and that I did not look scummy.
##Unvote
[QUOTE]On March 02 2012 09:18 Pandain wrote: [QUOTE]On March 02 2012 08:49 Probulous wrote: [QUOTE]On March 02 2012 08:26 Pandain wrote: AKCT hasn't done anything scummy. At least not anything that we can pinpoint definitively too. Right now your just clouded by the fact they both accused you, and you probably think anyone who supports you is town to. That's a dangerous, oftentimes wrong assumption to make. The_Toast, to the best of day1 analysis can go, is our best bet for right now.[/QUOTE]
I agree on RG. If you have courage take a look at Arkham City (Adam rolls his eyes). He claimed everything under the sun and looked scummy as hell but ended up being a regular vet. The fact that he put together an atrocious case on me and called it so makes him pretty much town in my eyes. Weird play but produced some interesting results.
Tea however jumped at the opportunity to call me scum when everyone else who pushed me, never did. RG clearly didn't believe I was scum or he would have pushed much harder but tea sheeps. Then he tries to explain his sheep with the worst possible logic available. He could be townie who doesn't know what is going on, but if that is the case why jump at me? He wants to look like he is contributing when he isn't.
I am fully aware that townies will target other townies. That happens all the time, that is why people's motivations for posting are important. From what I have seen from Tea he wants to look like he is contributing without contributing. Hence my suspicion. The fact that it was me is irrelevant.
[/QUOTE]
AKCT isn't actingi scummy. What was his first post? A vote of you with no explanation. Mafia would never ever EVER do that, that's so suspicious. Mafia are usually careful, and reticent in demeanor(part of why I think The_Toast is mafia). Theres one thing I have suspicions about but as of yet I'm waiting to see what he does about it, and telling him will ruin it. As of now I feel any evidence regarding AKCT is speculative, while more conclusive evidence is elsewhere.
Toast's latest response is more interesting actually....
[QUOTE]On March 02 2012 08:55 TheToast wrote: [QUOTE]On March 02 2012 07:51 Pandain wrote: I believe Probulous is town, or at least not scummy enough to lynch day 1. He's way too active/aggressive I feel for him to be mafia, although I'll have to look at his previous games for confirmation.
I'm most suspicious of The_Toast. Contrary to his last game as town, [url=http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=306452&user=89961](filter HERE)[/url] he is much more taciturn this game.
Compare that with his current posts. All hes done is [url=http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=315210¤tpage=7#134]agree with what others said[/url], and justify his own views(almost guiltily/apolegtic.) [quote] Pandain's point is valid none-the-less. We need to avoid getting sidetracked. That's all I was trying to say. [/quote] [quote] I would say why don't we wait for a few hours and see if we actually have any lurkers. And obvious scum should still be lynched first day one, if there are really no good candidates I would say then we should consider lynching a lurker. But in that case the lurker would be the best candidate, so I still say lynches need to be based on good analysis.
I reiterate: silly lynch rules really only benefit scum. Logical analysis first please.[/quote] generic, "pro town" advice. [quote] wasn't trying to specifically call you out. See the first word in that bolded sentence? "WE" As in ALL of us, together, need to avoid getting side tracked. I'm also unsure how you get me accusing you of "spamming" from me saying we need to avoid getting side tracked.
And to be fair, you did start a side conversation with Misder. I don't know that constitutes "spamming", but it's not going to lead to posts that can provide good analysis one way or the other. Just saying.[/quote] [quote] I wasn't trying to say you were spamming, I don't know why you are being so defensive about this. Pandain made a point about avoiding outside conversation in the thread, I agreed with that point. I wasn't trying to accuse you of anything. So no, I don't have a problem with it.
And you're right, I do try to think logically. As such I don't think two posts by themselves are enough to prove anyone as scum.[/quote] #vote the Toast[/QUOTE]
Let me get this straight. You think I'm scum because I'm being too nice? Based on what, the one* other game of mafia I've played? Well then, why don't you take a closer look at that game, you might see that I didn't post any serious analysis or votes until like 24 hours into the game. I prefer to wait until there is a good amount of evidence before making any votes or claims. And why does agreeing with you contribute to my scumminess? Are you now suddenly in favor of conversations that side track the game? Or just in favor of lynching people who agree with you about avoiding conversations that side track the thread? I love how you quoted me defending you against Probe's accusation as well. Excellent evidence you have provided.
Pandain right now you have 4 posts in this game. You called out Probulous with some vague accusations:
[QUOTE]On March 01 2012 12:57 Pandain wrote: That took a long time to post. Are you hiding something?[/QUOTE]
Then after both probe and sandroba call you out on this, you've very next post is--not responding to either of these--but rather to come out claiming Probulous is town--without a single shred of evidence or analysis--and claiming that I am scum based on scant evidence. Then post #4, have you addressed probe or sandroba's accusations? Nope. You tell Probe (who again, has not mysteriously become townish) that his vote on AKCoT is bad and that tunneling me is the best bet.
Pandain, right now I still don't think there is enough evidence against you to make a scum call; but it looks to me like you are desperately trying to focus attention off of yourself. [/QUOTE]
Contrast this tone with the others. Looks like hes trying hard to make a good point(with italics + bolding and shit). Not only that but while writing this post he researched other players(shown by his accusations of me, saying how I had 4 posts, noting my play).
His accusations of me mean that he could either be a trigger-happy townie, or that he's trying to downplay me. I can't determine anything out of that, actually it sort of helps his case.
This part is quite interesting though: [quote] I love how you quoted me defending you against Probe's accusation as well. Excellent evidence you have provided.[/quote] I'm interested what you meant by that, Toast. Why would you defending me lend you any town support? How would you know if I'm town?
By far though the most compelling and persuasive argument against him is the fact that he accused me, rather certainly in his opinion, that i was "desperately trying to hide something", and that I'm playing scummily. And yet overall, I'm not a good enough vote? Seems a bit of a paradox there.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, Pandain,softdefend your scumbuddy,Cup? Saying that he isnt scummy because of WIFOM(scum wouldnt do that) and that more conclusive evidence is to be found elsewhere is, on the other hand, scummy as hell.
The Toast has shown his(its?) teeth once he was attacked. Typical town, scum usually get defensive in this spot. Probulous, that s why you have lost 3 games. The Toast isnt trying to divert attention, not with such a vocal post.Plain wrong, though I would like to see something other than OMGUS from him.He is leaning town, actually. Glad you arent spamming anymore.
So far, It s between Cup and Pandain. Especially as Cup is a newbie and could very well have scumslipped. Lurkers, speak up.
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Oh, I must ve done something wrong. The text didnt appear under normal format.
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On March 02 2012 09:59 rgTheSchworz wrote: Oh, I must ve done something wrong. The text didnt appear under normal format.
Here you go:
Paperscraps usually posts like that. Still not enough for him to be lynched D1, I d say.
I d prefer not to talk about Arkham, I had a simple plan, but it failed, due to some truth-loving townies. Still baffled that only 3rd parties managed to figure out my role and that I did not look scummy.
##Unvote
On March 02 2012 09:18 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 08:49 Probulous wrote:On March 02 2012 08:26 Pandain wrote: AKCT hasn't done anything scummy. At least not anything that we can pinpoint definitively too. Right now your just clouded by the fact they both accused you, and you probably think anyone who supports you is town to. That's a dangerous, oftentimes wrong assumption to make. The_Toast, to the best of day1 analysis can go, is our best bet for right now. I agree on RG. If you have courage take a look at Arkham City (Adam rolls his eyes). He claimed everything under the sun and looked scummy as hell but ended up being a regular vet. The fact that he put together an atrocious case on me and called it so makes him pretty much town in my eyes. Weird play but produced some interesting results. Tea however jumped at the opportunity to call me scum when everyone else who pushed me, never did. RG clearly didn't believe I was scum or he would have pushed much harder but tea sheeps. Then he tries to explain his sheep with the worst possible logic available. He could be townie who doesn't know what is going on, but if that is the case why jump at me? He wants to look like he is contributing when he isn't. I am fully aware that townies will target other townies. That happens all the time, that is why people's motivations for posting are important. From what I have seen from Tea he wants to look like he is contributing without contributing. Hence my suspicion. The fact that it was me is irrelevant. AKCT isn't actingi scummy. What was his first post? A vote of you with no explanation. Mafia would never ever EVER do that, that's so suspicious. Mafia are usually careful, and reticent in demeanor(part of why I think The_Toast is mafia). Theres one thing I have suspicions about but as of yet I'm waiting to see what he does about it, and telling him will ruin it. As of now I feel any evidence regarding AKCT is speculative, while more conclusive evidence is elsewhere.Toast's latest response is more interesting actually.... Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 08:55 TheToast wrote:On March 02 2012 07:51 Pandain wrote:I believe Probulous is town, or at least not scummy enough to lynch day 1. He's way too active/aggressive I feel for him to be mafia, although I'll have to look at his previous games for confirmation. I'm most suspicious of The_Toast. Contrary to his last game as town, (filter HERE) he is much more taciturn this game. Compare that with his current posts. All hes done is agree with what others said, and justify his own views(almost guiltily/apolegtic.) Pandain's point is valid none-the-less. We need to avoid getting sidetracked. That's all I was trying to say. I would say why don't we wait for a few hours and see if we actually have any lurkers. And obvious scum should still be lynched first day one, if there are really no good candidates I would say then we should consider lynching a lurker. But in that case the lurker would be the best candidate, so I still say lynches need to be based on good analysis.
I reiterate: silly lynch rules really only benefit scum. Logical analysis first please. generic, "pro town" advice. wasn't trying to specifically call you out. See the first word in that bolded sentence? "WE" As in ALL of us, together, need to avoid getting side tracked. I'm also unsure how you get me accusing you of "spamming" from me saying we need to avoid getting side tracked.
And to be fair, you did start a side conversation with Misder. I don't know that constitutes "spamming", but it's not going to lead to posts that can provide good analysis one way or the other. Just saying. I wasn't trying to say you were spamming, I don't know why you are being so defensive about this. Pandain made a point about avoiding outside conversation in the thread, I agreed with that point. I wasn't trying to accuse you of anything. So no, I don't have a problem with it.
And you're right, I do try to think logically. As such I don't think two posts by themselves are enough to prove anyone as scum. #vote the Toast Let me get this straight. You think I'm scum because I'm being too nice? Based on what, the one* other game of mafia I've played? Well then, why don't you take a closer look at that game, you might see that I didn't post any serious analysis or votes until like 24 hours into the game. I prefer to wait until there is a good amount of evidence before making any votes or claims. And why does agreeing with you contribute to my scumminess? Are you now suddenly in favor of conversations that side track the game? Or just in favor of lynching people who agree with you about avoiding conversations that side track the thread? I love how you quoted me defending you against Probe's accusation as well. Excellent evidence you have provided. Pandain right now you have 4 posts in this game. You called out Probulous with some vague accusations: On March 01 2012 12:57 Pandain wrote: That took a long time to post. Are you hiding something? Then after both probe and sandroba call you out on this, you've very next post is--not responding to either of these--but rather to come out claiming Probulous is town--without a single shred of evidence or analysis--and claiming that I am scum based on scant evidence. Then post #4, have you addressed probe or sandroba's accusations? Nope. You tell Probe (who again, has not mysteriously become townish) that his vote on AKCoT is bad and that tunneling me is the best bet. Pandain, right now I still don't think there is enough evidence against you to make a scum call; but it looks to me like you are desperately trying to focus attention off of yourself. Contrast this tone with the others. Looks like hes trying hard to make a good point(with italics + bolding and shit). Not only that but while writing this post he researched other players(shown by his accusations of me, saying how I had 4 posts, noting my play). His accusations of me mean that he could either be a trigger-happy townie, or that he's trying to downplay me. I can't determine anything out of that, actually it sort of helps his case. This part is quite interesting though: Show nested quote + I love how you quoted me defending you against Probe's accusation as well. Excellent evidence you have provided. I'm interested what you meant by that, Toast. Why would you defending me lend you any town support? How would you know if I'm town? By far though the most compelling and persuasive argument against him is the fact that he accused me, rather certainly in his opinion, that i was "desperately trying to hide something", and that I'm playing scummily. And yet overall, I'm not a good enough vote? Seems a bit of a paradox there.
Yeah, Pandain,softdefend your scumbuddy,Cup? Saying that he isnt scummy because of WIFOM(scum wouldnt do that) and that more conclusive evidence is to be found elsewhere is, on the other hand, scummy as hell.
The Toast has shown his(its?) teeth once he was attacked. Typical town, scum usually get defensive in this spot. Probulous, that s why you have lost 3 games. The Toast isnt trying to divert attention, not with such a vocal post.Plain wrong, though I would like to see something other than OMGUS from him.He is leaning town, actually. Glad you arent spamming anymore.
So far, It s between Cup and Pandain. Especially as Cup is a newbie and could very well have scumslipped. Lurkers, speak up.
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On March 02 2012 09:53 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 09:44 Probulous wrote:I have magic powers! I summon a Jackal and here he appears Seriously though just for clarity's sake, what exactly do you agree with from deconduo? That paperscraps is scum? Yes and also that your location list serves no purpose. And no, sorry, you have no magic powers.
What do you think of misder, for a vet his posts have been pretty lacklustre.
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On March 02 2012 10:02 deconduo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 09:53 Jackal58 wrote:On March 02 2012 09:44 Probulous wrote:I have magic powers! I summon a Jackal and here he appears Seriously though just for clarity's sake, what exactly do you agree with from deconduo? That paperscraps is scum? Yes and also that your location list serves no purpose. And no, sorry, you have no magic powers. What do you think of misder, for a vet his posts have been pretty lacklustre. He's picking a fight over an issue that really has no bearing on the game. I've seen other scum do that before. Choose a side on a LaL or lurker argument and beat it to death. Oh wait, that was you! I'd have no problem lynching either of them.
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I could see Pandain as scum, I'll explain later, I can't explain now cuz I got school work tho.
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@Pandain I'm surprised you responded to me. I thought maybe you would ignore my post and show up in another 10 hours with random accusations against someone else.
On March 02 2012 09:18 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 08:49 Probulous wrote:On March 02 2012 08:26 Pandain wrote: AKCT hasn't done anything scummy. At least not anything that we can pinpoint definitively too. Right now your just clouded by the fact they both accused you, and you probably think anyone who supports you is town to. That's a dangerous, oftentimes wrong assumption to make. The_Toast, to the best of day1 analysis can go, is our best bet for right now. I agree on RG. If you have courage take a look at Arkham City (Adam rolls his eyes). He claimed everything under the sun and looked scummy as hell but ended up being a regular vet. The fact that he put together an atrocious case on me and called it so makes him pretty much town in my eyes. Weird play but produced some interesting results. Tea however jumped at the opportunity to call me scum when everyone else who pushed me, never did. RG clearly didn't believe I was scum or he would have pushed much harder but tea sheeps. Then he tries to explain his sheep with the worst possible logic available. He could be townie who doesn't know what is going on, but if that is the case why jump at me? He wants to look like he is contributing when he isn't. I am fully aware that townies will target other townies. That happens all the time, that is why people's motivations for posting are important. From what I have seen from Tea he wants to look like he is contributing without contributing. Hence my suspicion. The fact that it was me is irrelevant. AKCT isn't actingi scummy. What was his first post? A vote of you with no explanation. Mafia would never ever EVER do that, that's so suspicious. Mafia are usually careful, and reticent in demeanor(part of why I think The_Toast is mafia). Theres one thing I have suspicions about but as of yet I'm waiting to see what he does about it, and telling him will ruin it. As of now I feel any evidence regarding AKCT is speculative, while more conclusive evidence is elsewhere. Toast's latest response is more interesting actually.... Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 08:55 TheToast wrote:On March 02 2012 07:51 Pandain wrote:I believe Probulous is town, or at least not scummy enough to lynch day 1. He's way too active/aggressive I feel for him to be mafia, although I'll have to look at his previous games for confirmation. I'm most suspicious of The_Toast. Contrary to his last game as town, (filter HERE) he is much more taciturn this game. Compare that with his current posts. All hes done is agree with what others said, and justify his own views(almost guiltily/apolegtic.) Pandain's point is valid none-the-less. We need to avoid getting sidetracked. That's all I was trying to say. I would say why don't we wait for a few hours and see if we actually have any lurkers. And obvious scum should still be lynched first day one, if there are really no good candidates I would say then we should consider lynching a lurker. But in that case the lurker would be the best candidate, so I still say lynches need to be based on good analysis.
I reiterate: silly lynch rules really only benefit scum. Logical analysis first please. generic, "pro town" advice. wasn't trying to specifically call you out. See the first word in that bolded sentence? "WE" As in ALL of us, together, need to avoid getting side tracked. I'm also unsure how you get me accusing you of "spamming" from me saying we need to avoid getting side tracked.
And to be fair, you did start a side conversation with Misder. I don't know that constitutes "spamming", but it's not going to lead to posts that can provide good analysis one way or the other. Just saying. I wasn't trying to say you were spamming, I don't know why you are being so defensive about this. Pandain made a point about avoiding outside conversation in the thread, I agreed with that point. I wasn't trying to accuse you of anything. So no, I don't have a problem with it.
And you're right, I do try to think logically. As such I don't think two posts by themselves are enough to prove anyone as scum. #vote the Toast Let me get this straight. You think I'm scum because I'm being too nice? Based on what, the one* other game of mafia I've played? Well then, why don't you take a closer look at that game, you might see that I didn't post any serious analysis or votes until like 24 hours into the game. I prefer to wait until there is a good amount of evidence before making any votes or claims. And why does agreeing with you contribute to my scumminess? Are you now suddenly in favor of conversations that side track the game? Or just in favor of lynching people who agree with you about avoiding conversations that side track the thread? I love how you quoted me defending you against Probe's accusation as well. Excellent evidence you have provided. Pandain right now you have 4 posts in this game. You called out Probulous with some vague accusations: On March 01 2012 12:57 Pandain wrote: That took a long time to post. Are you hiding something? Then after both probe and sandroba call you out on this, you've very next post is--not responding to either of these--but rather to come out claiming Probulous is town--without a single shred of evidence or analysis--and claiming that I am scum based on scant evidence. Then post #4, have you addressed probe or sandroba's accusations? Nope. You tell Probe (who again, has not mysteriously become townish) that his vote on AKCoT is bad and that tunneling me is the best bet. Pandain, right now I still don't think there is enough evidence against you to make a scum call; but it looks to me like you are desperately trying to focus attention off of yourself. Contrast this tone with the others. Looks like hes trying hard to make a good point(with italics + bolding and shit). Not only that but while writing this post he researched other players(shown by his accusations of me, saying how I had 4 posts, noting my play).
Bolded and italics and shit. Yeah, I never use those. Rock solid analysis. And lol @ the "research part". Wow, I clicked on your filter, crazy hard research.
His accusations of me mean that he could either be a trigger-happy townie, or that he's trying to downplay me. I can't determine anything out of that, actually it sort of helps his case.
I didn't make any accusations, I made some insinuations but no outright accusations. Again, going back to the last game I played (which you seem to like to reference) you will note I really don't like to make any votes or call out anyone as scum without some good analysis and lots of evidence.
This part is quite interesting though: Show nested quote + I love how you quoted me defending you against Probe's accusation as well. Excellent evidence you have provided. I'm interested what you meant by that, Toast. Why would you defending me lend you any town support? How would you know if I'm town?
Are you saying you're not town?? More than anything I was bemused by the fact that you quoted that as evidence against me. Go back to that page, I wasn't arguing that you were town. All I said was that 2 posts weren't enough to support any of Probe's accusations against you. Basically I wanted to prevent a day 1 bandwagoning, and as I have said multiple times now, I prefer to use analysis and evidence before calling anyone out as scum. I was (and still am) completely lost as to how that figured into the rest of your argument about me being too nice and therefore scum.
By far though the most compelling and persuasive argument against him is the fact that he accused me, rather certainly in his opinion, that i was "desperately trying to hide something", and that I'm playing scummily. And yet overall, I'm not a good enough vote? Seems a bit of a paradox there.
Allow me to quote myself, as you apparently didn't read this the first time:
Pandain, right now I still don't think there is enough evidence against you to make a scum call;
Doesn't mean your not scum. Just means I can't prove it yet. The part about you trying to refocus attention has more to do with the fact that you still haven't responded to probe or sandro's posts against you.
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On March 02 2012 08:49 Probulous wrote: Tea however jumped at the opportunity to call me scum when everyone else who pushed me, never did. RG clearly didn't believe I was scum or he would have pushed much harder but tea sheeps. Then he tries to explain his sheep with the worst possible logic available. He could be townie who doesn't know what is going on, but if that is the case why jump at me? He wants to look like he is contributing when he isn't.
Excuse me? thats bullshit. I saw something scummy and pointed it out, My reasoning is sound, and your misrepresentation of me does you no favours.
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On March 02 2012 09:29 Probulous wrote: My logic is simple really. You insinuated I was spamming/hiding something and but never followed it up. Hence it was a fish. Those that jumped on it are trying to push and discredit me, thus they go on my scummy list until they do something that redeems them.
Bah, you know what, you're pretty blatantly just derp.town at this point. ##Unvote. Did it not occur to you that you were called out on it by multiple people because it was scummy? Its alright though, you're no longer focusing solely on mechanics, and have decided to scumhunt, albeit misguidedly.
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On March 02 2012 10:46 A Killer Cuppa Tea wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 08:49 Probulous wrote: Tea however jumped at the opportunity to call me scum when everyone else who pushed me, never did. RG clearly didn't believe I was scum or he would have pushed much harder but tea sheeps. Then he tries to explain his sheep with the worst possible logic available. He could be townie who doesn't know what is going on, but if that is the case why jump at me? He wants to look like he is contributing when he isn't.
Excuse me? thats bullshit. I saw something scummy and pointed it out, My reasoning is sound, and your misrepresentation of me does you no favours.
OK maybe you can explain this then, your first post (klicky) doesn'st actually state why you voted for me. I assume it is because of the list. Your point about policy has nothing to do with what you quoted hence my assumption. If you didn't like my policy discussions, as Adam pointed out why me? You even agree with my stance on policy.
On March 02 2012 03:23 A Killer Cuppa Tea wrote: Also, I'm voting Probulous because of a hunch that basically arose from "we should lynch all lurkers" and then proceeding to spam it up. Looks like it could potentially be scum diverting attention from himself, like
...
EBWOP: also, the majority of his posts had been town-sounding mechanics/theory posts which are incredibly easy for scum to make to help themselves look a lot townier (it's a good strategy!), but very little in the way of actual scumhunting, so they don't have to worry about statements that can come back and haunt them later.
Certain things are always "correct" in a game of mafia. Lurking benefits mafia. No Lynching is bad. Etc... You can't fault a guy for saying something along them lines. But if he Coles out today and says "wow, X is so totally townie"'and X later flips scum, it'll be held against him. By actively posting "correct" mafia theories, it's easy townpoints to be gained.
I opposed LAL so I never said we should lynch lurkers. Your accusation is based on me spamming which I explained earlier, you just ignored that. So far nothing you have written has any substance. Then you say that I am pretending to be town by saying townie things. How that makes sense I have no idea. The only thing you have done this game is actively discredit me with no substance behind it.
I mean what was your actual reason for voting for me?
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My reason for voting you was a high concentration of Mechanics post coupled with very few Scumhunting posts (at the time). I made that clear in my 2nd post when i realised that it might not have been obvious to everyone that that was what i was getting at (was pretty damned hungover at the time of making that first post). I've explained that its not so much the mechanics/policy posts that are the scummy part, its them at the absence (or infrequency) of anything else. Since then you've started scumhunting proper, which pretty much negates my reason for voting you, and a couple of other things have convinced me of your towniness. Successful probing, imo.
Incidentally, i'd like to stress again that its not your policy that i had a problem with. It was the discussion of policy with a lack of anything else. Its another reason why i dont like discussions on policy alone - too easy for scum to hide there.
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On March 02 2012 11:26 A Killer Cuppa Tea wrote: My reason for voting you was a high concentration of Mechanics post coupled with very few Scumhunting posts (at the time). I made that clear in my 2nd post when i realised that it might not have been obvious to everyone that that was what i was getting at (was pretty damned hungover at the time of making that first post). I've explained that its not so much the mechanics/policy posts that are the scummy part, its them at the absence (or infrequency) of anything else. Since then you've started scumhunting proper, which pretty much negates my reason for voting you, and a couple of other things have convinced me of your towniness. Successful probing, imo.
Incidentally, i'd like to stress again that its not your policy that i had a problem with. It was the discussion of policy with a lack of anything else. Its another reason why i dont like discussions on policy alone - too easy for scum to hide there.
Would you vote for misder then?
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EBWOP: you know what, rereading my post i can totally see where you coulda got the impression that spamming was the problem i had with you. It was a very disjointed post. The reason i (meant to) gave with that post was "People are talking about how lurking is bad. Probulous spams it up, potentially as a result of this anti-lurker sentiment".
It is important to note that often when using one's vote, one acts more sure than one is - otherwise its not much of pressure. I had a scumread on you, sure, but it was a very slight one - and oen that you have since alleviated.
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ROFL
"People are talking about how lurking is bad. Probulous spams it up, potentially as a result of this anti-lurker sentiment".
That's some serious mental gymnastics. Especially since we have played together before and I posted a lot then too. Anyway, from your response I think you just didn't think through your vote clearly.
##unvote
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Upon rereading his Filter, yes. yes i could most certainly get behind Misder pressure - in fact, he's doing pretty much exactly what i accused you of doing, but worse (posting a lot less).
##Vote Misder (have i got the syntax right?)
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On March 02 2012 11:33 Probulous wrote: ROFL
"People are talking about how lurking is bad. Probulous spams it up, potentially as a result of this anti-lurker sentiment".
That's some serious mental gymnastics. Especially since we have played together before and I posted a lot then too. Anyway, from your response I think you just didn't think through your vote clearly.
I blame the alcohol >.<
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I'm glad I'm under fire. This whole thing that I'm spouting one-liners thing is pretty messed up. There is nothing wrong with saying what my opinions are on policy lynches. It's not like I push that we should implement Lynch all Liars, but rather that it really is a good policy and I'm going to vote based on that policy.
(I also find it cute that deconduo called me a vet)
Anyways, Paperscraps is town. Probulous is town. Bluelightz is town. Snarfs is town. Palmar is town. A Killer Cuppa Tea is town. Pandain leaning town. rgTheSchworz is null. Adam is leaning scum. Sandroba is leaning scum.
##Vote: deconduo His reason for voting for me was because he disagreed that LaL should be a policy. I don't know why his reads are the opposites of my reads (namely, Paperscraps and Probulous).
I'm missing some people because I missed them when I did my first impressions sheet/I wasn't paying enough attention to everyone/nothing stood out from anyone else.
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"His reason for voting for me was because he disagreed that LaL should be a policy. I don't know why his reads are the opposites of my reads (namely, Paperscraps and Probulous)."
People really are not being clear in this game. Misder, please can you clarify your reason for voting for decon? My understanding is that his reads are bad and his reason for voting for you was your position on LAL. Is that correct?
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Prob, my activity will come in bursts most of the game. I have uni back on now and also I don't like posting just for the sake of it, only when I feel I have something relevant to contribute.
I find Palmar interesting, as I do in every one of our games. I think his exchange with you from yesterday was an exercise in stating the obvious, something I don't expect from him. As I said to him yesterday, everything he was stating was stuff that townies should already be doing and the fact that he needed to stress it across 4 posts shows that he is either just talking for the sake of putting words on a page, or he has no faith in this town. Right now, I am leaning towards he is not town.
I find Pandains 'analysis' of Killer Cup interesting also. Pandain warns about making assumptions about your accusers here. Then he goes on to make the assumption that Killer Cup is so scummy that he cant be scum here. I made that assumption in Arkham City with jaybrundage, that he looked so damn scummy that he had to be bad town. Nope, wrong. He was just obvscum. I don't agree with Pandains logic, but that doesn't make him scum, so I have him as null for now.
Misder, if you have all those reads on everyone, why not write a paragraph on each one and detail how you got to those reads. Writing everyone's name and then an alignment is pointless and we all love pointless lists around here. Your OMGUS vote on deconduo is weak. You're voting him because he has different reads to you? You need to start putting effort into your reads.
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Question do we know how many scum there are in the game?
My scum reads so far. Jackal - Has posted nothing of substance. He also agrees with Deconduo who is scum Deconduo - His reaction to me calling him scum was pretty bad, telling me I slipped, when I just disagreed. TheToast - Very defensive, diplomatic and not scum hunting at all.
##Vote: Deconduo
I messed up the format last time.
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Iceland22590 Posts
I still think we should be lynching sandroba.
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Iceland22590 Posts
i don't think deconduo is scum, or well, his response to me calling him terrible seemed kinda towny
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Iceland22590 Posts
Paperscraps looks towny, so does rgTS. I'm not really sure about teacup, but there's nothing super scummy in his posting so far.
I refuse to analyse jackal58, cause I never get it right. misder seems towny i think. Adam not so much, he could be scummer. I'm not quite sure about probulous, something is off about his play I think, but I can't exactly tell if it's because he's scum. Bluelightz is impossible to read, but assuming the obvious he's town.
I actually think snarfs looks pretty towny from his sk asking post, it just seemed genuine enough not to be fabricated to make us think he's clueless town, in addition I don't think scum often does that.
No clue about the rest really. Toast and Pandain and anyone else I might be forgetting, but if I forget you it's because your content has been worthless so far. So take it as an insult please.
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Iceland22590 Posts
I think it's very likely we have an SK, due to the number of players in the game.
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Jackal given you said this in Mafia L
On January 16 2012 23:39 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2012 18:46 wherebugsgo wrote: anyway, for the world outside of Scamp, I have some pressing questions I want answered while I'm asleep: Jackal58: I agreed with everything you said day 1, which is either really good or really bad. What are your thoughts right now? Who's scum? Sandroba. When he disappears he's scum. He has disappeared.
Would you shoot Sandroba if you had a gun this game. I agree with Palmar that he has been hiding which is scummy as hell. His case on Pandain is insubstantial and he isn't here. I have never played with him but since Jackal has a history of recognising Sandroba's scum, I think your opinion here would be useful.
LOL at Palmar basically calling me an SK.
"I'm not quite sure about probulous, something is off about his play I think, but I can't exactly tell if it's because he's scum. "
If my play is off (implying I am not town) and I am not scum, I must be an SK right? Sorry to disappoint you but this game I rolled regular townie. I will try and improve my play so it isn't so "off". It's time for bed here (early start tomorrow). I will check in, in the morning and vote before I head off to the wedding. Sorry I can't be at the deadline but there are some things more important than mafia (shock horror).
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Iceland22590 Posts
That's an incorrect conclusion to draw from my wording, an alternative scenario is that you're simply town and playing in a different way than I expected. That would certainly make something off about your play, without making you either sk or scum.
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I do agree that there is an SK here.
I Believe Paperscraps is scum.
Let's look at his posts.
On March 01 2012 14:35 Paperscraps wrote:Hey everybody!
Just got home from school.
The Probulous spam makes me laugh. I am cool with lynching all lurkers. Hopefully this will be an active game, so we don't have to resort to such measures. I am excited to play with a few more vets in this game, than my previous games. Quality of posts > Quantity of posts
The part I italiced is just fluff. The other part of this post is just voicing his opinion
On March 02 2012 02:09 Paperscraps wrote: Probulous is town Palmar is null rg is town
deconduo is scum for his horrible reads so far
Vote: deconduo
List = Useless, he didnt even provide reasons for why X is town, his reason for voting deconduo, I don't agree how reads can be horrible unless you know other people's alignment.
On March 02 2012 17:07 Paperscraps wrote: Question do we know how many scum there are in the game?
My scum reads so far. Jackal - Has posted nothing of substance. He also agrees with Deconduo who is scum Deconduo - His reaction to me calling him scum was pretty bad, telling me I slipped, when I just disagreed. TheToast - Very defensive, diplomatic and not scum hunting at all.
##Vote: Deconduo
I messed up the format last time.
Fixed his vote, his list is not useless this time.
and.........
No more posts! Also, he is not providing anything useful to town and not contributing to the discussion.
So, ##Vote: Paperscraps
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On March 02 2012 18:52 Palmar wrote: Toast and Pandain and anyone else I might be forgetting, but if I forget you it's because your content has been worthless so far. So take it as an insult please.
Lol jerk
On March 02 2012 18:41 Palmar wrote: I still think we should be lynching sandroba.
His play so far this game has been weird, all he's done is shown up a few times to make some short stubby posts and then disappears again. Seems odd since every tutorial/analysis I've read says lurking is a bad way to play as Mafia. Shouldn't a vet like sandro know this? What does he have to gain as scum by lurking? I've got my money on SK, it makes the most sense.
At this point I'm pretty convinced Probulous is town. The whole "spam" thing was rediculous, the list he posted served a purpose it wasn't just fluff. He's also been one of the most active members of this game so far, he's got just about the most posts to go through and there's really nothing that jumps out as specifically scummy. He's so far been pretty even handed with his analysis. I thought his defense against AKCT was pretty good as well:
On March 02 2012 06:59 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 03:29 A Killer Cuppa Tea wrote: EBWOP: also, the majority of his posts had been town-sounding mechanics/theory posts which are incredibly easy for scum to make to help themselves look a lot townier (it's a good strategy!), but very little in the way of actual scumhunting, so they don't have to worry about statements that can come back and haunt them later.
Certain things are always "correct" in a game of mafia. Lurking benefits mafia. No Lynching is bad. Etc... You can't fault a guy for saying something along them lines. But if he Coles out today and says "wow, X is so totally townie"'and X later flips scum, it'll be held against him. By actively posting "correct" mafia theories, it's easy townpoints to be gained. Tea, in all your posts you have not been able even once to explain how my actions are mafia driven. You entire case is that I have been saying the right things. How does that make me mafia? You my friend have started with a conclusion and then made your argument based on it. What scumhunting have you done? You sheeped RG's terrible analysis on me and have called me out for providing nothing. See my decon post for my rebuttal to that silly idea. You sir better shape up because right now you are being hypocritical and targeting me with aweful logic, both of those make you scum in my book.
He easily points out the flaw in AKCT's bizzare argument, doesn't use any fluff (there are no pointless quotes here, no out of place lists), and all around presents a solid defense of himself. Probe's been a bit inconsistant as to who he is focusing on for Day 1, but overall I don't see anything in any of his posts that should indicate he is anything other than town.
Still not sure what the deal is with Pandain, his posts have been sporatic and his analysis wierd, but I still don't think that there is enough to make any kind of a scum call on him yet. But I'm going to be keeping my eyes on him.
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On March 02 2012 19:59 Probulous wrote:Jackal given you said this in Mafia L Show nested quote +On January 16 2012 23:39 Jackal58 wrote:On January 16 2012 18:46 wherebugsgo wrote: anyway, for the world outside of Scamp, I have some pressing questions I want answered while I'm asleep: Jackal58: I agreed with everything you said day 1, which is either really good or really bad. What are your thoughts right now? Who's scum? Sandroba. When he disappears he's scum. He has disappeared. Would you shoot Sandroba if you had a gun this game. I agree with Palmar that he has been hiding which is scummy as hell. His case on Pandain is insubstantial and he isn't here. I have never played with him but since Jackal has a history of recognising Sandroba's scum, I think your opinion here would be useful.
This is interesting. I'm interested to know Jackal's answer to this as well. Pandain has made a number of posts since sandro's accusations but sandro still hasn't shown back up to comment on them. If Palmar is right and Sandro is scum, why isn't Sandro pushing Pandain harder? And where is he? To me his his behavior makes no sense in the context of scum. I'm thinking he's the serial killer.
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On March 02 2012 10:19 Bluelightz wrote:I could see Pandain as scum, I'll explain later, I can't explain now cuz I got school work tho.
Seems you've decided Paper is more scummy, but I'd still like to hear an explanation for this one.
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United States5684 Posts
Current Vote Count: Ties are ordered Chronologically due to Voting Rules
Misder - 2 deconduo A Killer Cuppa Tea
deconduo - 2 Misder Paperscraps
Sandroba - 1 Palmar
Pandain -1 Sandroba
TheToast - 1 Pandain
Paperscraps - 1 Bluelightz
Probulous - 0
rgTheSchworz
A Killer Cuppa Tea - 0
Probulous
Not Yet Voted: (Player List Order) Jackal58, Probulous, Snarfs, rgTheSchworz, TheToast, Adam4167
If there is a mistake, please let me know! There are about 10 hours until voting ends.
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I ve got to vote Pandain here. I am not fond of defending someone scummy. Cup's justification isnt satisfying, but we can deduce something of it when Pandain flips. It s probable that theyre both scum. ##Voteandain
Sandro's town, at least from my POV right now. He usually doesnt post walls of text, but when he rolls scum, he dissapears, and sometimes trolls like hell. I see that at least hes putting a little effort in right now.
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I changed my mind about pandain. His following posts and the comment about the watcher made me reconsider. Apparently thetoast seems to know I'm not scum and can only be sk from his perspective.
@Palmar why do you think I'm scum?
Unvote ##Vote:TheToast
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ebwop: ##Unvote ##Vote TheToast
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@rgt I'm pretty sure pandain is not the best lynch.
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misder and Papaerscraps both appear to be doing an omgus vote on Decon.
Why do you guys think Decon is scummy?
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On March 02 2012 12:27 Misder wrote: I'm glad I'm under fire. This whole thing that I'm spouting one-liners thing is pretty messed up. There is nothing wrong with saying what my opinions are on policy lynches. It's not like I push that we should implement Lynch all Liars, but rather that it really is a good policy and I'm going to vote based on that policy.
(I also find it cute that deconduo called me a vet)
Anyways, Paperscraps is town. Probulous is town. Bluelightz is town. Snarfs is town. Palmar is town. A Killer Cuppa Tea is town. Pandain leaning town. rgTheSchworz is null. Adam is leaning scum. Sandroba is leaning scum.
##Vote: deconduo His reason for voting for me was because he disagreed that LaL should be a policy. I don't know why his reads are the opposites of my reads (namely, Paperscraps and Probulous).
I'm missing some people because I missed them when I did my first impressions sheet/I wasn't paying enough attention to everyone/nothing stood out from anyone else.
I love when people OMGUS, it means I'm probably right about them. Also I voted for you because you posted 3 one liners about LAL and then disappeared. You come back with a list of reads with no explanation behind them, OMGUS me and then disappear again. You haven't made a single worthwhile post. You haven't done any analysis. This is typical mafia behaviour.
On March 02 2012 17:07 Paperscraps wrote: Question do we know how many scum there are in the game?
My scum reads so far. Jackal - Has posted nothing of substance. He also agrees with Deconduo who is scum Deconduo - His reaction to me calling him scum was pretty bad, telling me I slipped, when I just disagreed. TheToast - Very defensive, diplomatic and not scum hunting at all.
##Vote: Deconduo
I messed up the format last time.
Please explain how could you know my reads were bad if you are town?
We lynch Misder today and Paper tomorrow. I had a look at Pandain's filter and its nothing as bad as these two.
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On March 03 2012 01:59 Mattchew wrote: Current Vote Count:
Paindain -1 Sandroba
TheToast - 1 Paindain
...
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On March 03 2012 04:40 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 01:59 Mattchew wrote: Current Vote Count:
Paindain -1 Sandroba
TheToast - 1 Paindain
...
You realize you voted for me AFTER sandro voted you, right? So what exactly are you trying to say here?
Why are you even quoting this? What's the point here?
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On March 03 2012 04:44 TheToast wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 04:40 Pandain wrote:On March 03 2012 01:59 Mattchew wrote: Current Vote Count:
Paindain -1 Sandroba
TheToast - 1 Paindain
... You realize you voted for me AFTER sandro voted you, right? So what exactly are you trying to say here? Why are you even quoting this? What's the point here?
His name is spelled wrong.
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United States5684 Posts
sorry Pandain my fault
I will update Vote Count with 2 hours to lynch aka in a little over 5 hours
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On March 03 2012 04:49 deconduo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 04:44 TheToast wrote:On March 03 2012 04:40 Pandain wrote:On March 03 2012 01:59 Mattchew wrote: Current Vote Count:
Paindain -1 Sandroba
TheToast - 1 Paindain
... You realize you voted for me AFTER sandro voted you, right? So what exactly are you trying to say here? Why are you even quoting this? What's the point here? His name is spelled wrong.
Oh, I missed that.
All I saw was sandro switch his vote to me and suddenly Pandain is quoting both of their votes. >.>
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Hey toast your explanation of why I can't be scum reeks of extreme bs what can you say about that?
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On March 03 2012 05:05 sandroba wrote: Hey toast your explanation of why I can't be scum reeks of extreme bs what can you say about that?
Are you trying to discourage me from arguing against you as scum? Sandro, you've got only got 12 posts this game, clearly you've been lurking. You've made only one piss poor attempt at analysis, every other post you have made so far has been a short bit of weird fluff. It's glaringly clear you're not a vanilla townie this game. Idk what you rolled, but SK makes the most sense to me right now. It explains the lurker, and explains the abundance of fluff--even scum would be attempting to steer the game in some direction.
If you can come up with something that explains your behavior this game, I'm all ears.
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On March 02 2012 19:59 Probulous wrote:Jackal given you said this in Mafia L Show nested quote +On January 16 2012 23:39 Jackal58 wrote:On January 16 2012 18:46 wherebugsgo wrote: anyway, for the world outside of Scamp, I have some pressing questions I want answered while I'm asleep: Jackal58: I agreed with everything you said day 1, which is either really good or really bad. What are your thoughts right now? Who's scum? Sandroba. When he disappears he's scum. He has disappeared. Would you shoot Sandroba if you had a gun this game.
Jackal, maybe you missed this. Please can you respond.
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On March 02 2012 12:33 Probulous wrote: "His reason for voting for me was because he disagreed that LaL should be a policy. I don't know why his reads are the opposites of my reads (namely, Paperscraps and Probulous)."
People really are not being clear in this game. Misder, please can you clarify your reason for voting for decon? My understanding is that his reads are bad and his reason for voting for you was your position on LAL. Is that correct?
Misder, please respond to my question.
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Right now my reads correlate best with Palmar. I don't think Paperscraps is scum. He always writes very short posts with not much content, he correctly identified me as town early and I agree that decon's case was terrible. Sure Misder had engaged in a fluffy discussion regarding LAL (with me) but if that is all the case was based on then bluelightz should have been a bigger target. He was asking everyone for their opinions and sharing none. I agree that his absence since then and his terrible reason for voting decon (as far as I can tell) makes look really scummy but when Paperscraps replied the case was very weak.
Jackal is making himself hard to read. As above I disagree with paper but agree with Misder. He's lurking but that seems to be his usual day 1 play. Pandain seems towny to me. His case on toast helped clarify toast's alignment to me. Adam needs to post something of substance. His only game as scum (that I remember) he lurked all game long.
Sandroba, you're not helping yourself. The quote from Jackal in L corresponds very well to your current play. This is why I want Jackal's opinion. He shot you then, would he shoot you now? Toast is right to call you out for lack of contribution. Your response enforces his case.
##vote Sandroba
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On March 02 2012 09:54 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 09:44 Pandain wrote: Let's get this game rolling and focus on one person for now. If someone lurks in the meantime, they'll only hurt themselves later. By focusing on one, we get to see the reactions of all.
Can you explain why you don't view Toast as scum? You gave a vague reason but I'm sure you have more. Well for one he has been pretty consistent. Show nested quote +The more fluff, random posts in the thread, the easier it is for scum to hide. Keep it focused. Show nested quote +I wasn't trying to specifically call you out. See the first word in that bolded sentence? "WE" As in ALL of us, together, need to avoid getting side tracked. I'm also unsure how you get me accusing you of "spamming" from me saying we need to avoid getting side tracked. Then he got indignant when I was needling him. I admit that my reading of his accusation was weak, I was really just seeking clarity around what he meant by "sidetracked" but he got flustered. To me this reads like someone trying to avoid a stupid argument. Show nested quote +I wasn't trying to say you were spamming, I don't know why you are being so defensive about this. Pandain made a point about avoiding outside conversation in the thread, I agreed with that point. I wasn't trying to accuse you of anything. So no, I don't have a problem with it. Given that was what he was trying to do from the start, it looks townie. Finally his response to your case is clear frustation. He isn't scared or submissive but rather frustrated that he can't seem to establish his innocence. It would have been much easier for him to target someone else but instead he attempts to clarify his position. His point about you quoting me looks like sarcasm. All in all it doesn't read as scum to me.
He was consistent because he had to explain himself. All the posts were related to you calling him out(unjustly). And just because he's consistent doesn't mean he's not scum. I look at all those posts in a different perspective.
The apologetic mood(refer to Ver's analysis of Misder in "How to Improve", the strong reaction to being accused, and the lack of any contribution to town(all he's done is defend himself) is very suspicious to me.
I feel the suspicions against Misder are weak. The real suspicious thing hes done is his latest post, where he just posted a list with no substance, but people seem to focus on his earlier posts, which took place at the very beginning of the game. I don't think there's a better case on Misder then there is Toast.
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Also anyone who realizes about what Palmar is should note the same for Toast
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On March 03 2012 06:07 Pandain wrote:He was consistent because he had to explain himself. All the posts were related to you calling him out(unjustly). And just because he's consistent doesn't mean he's not scum. I look at all those posts in a different perspective. The apologetic mood(refer to Ver's analysis of Misder in "How to Improve", the strong reaction to being accused, and the lack of any contribution to town(all he's done is defend himself) is very suspicious to me. I feel the suspicions against Misder are weak. The real suspicious thing hes done is his latest post, where he just posted a list with no substance, but people seem to focus on his earlier posts, which took place at the very beginning of the game. I don't think there's a better case on Misder then there is Toast.
Toast has since changed his position. He has correctly pointed out Sandroba's lurking and has been the most forceful in defending me. Now he could be scum, but if he keeps playing like this I don't mind keeping him around. I think you are focused on his early play. His play since then has been better than most.
Misder however when called out responded with a terrible list of towny people and voted decon for reasons that still don't make sense to me. He then disappeared. The attitude is completely different. One of them has clearly tried to better the other hasn't.
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Stop saying stuff like "correctly"... "correctly..." How do you know what is correct? "They have correctly identified me as town", mafia do that all the time. In fact one of the best ways to gain town cred as mafia is to say "yeah this guy is innocent" when he's getting lynched.
And his latest play is suspicious. The harsh reaction to Sandroba's bad vote reasoning, as well as to my quote of the above material, hes playing like he's mafia.
Misder's made one crappy post and now people are lynching him. And personally, there is more reason for the mafia to try to get better than for a bored townie.
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On March 03 2012 06:20 Pandain wrote: Stop saying stuff like "correctly"... "correctly..." How do you know what is correct? "They have correctly identified me as town", mafia do that all the time. In fact one of the best ways to gain town cred as mafia is to say "yeah this guy is innocent" when he's getting lynched.
And his latest play is suspicious. The harsh reaction to Sandroba's bad vote reasoning, as well as to my quote of the above material, hes playing like he's mafia.
Misder's made one crappy post and now people are lynching him. And personally, there is more reason for the mafia to try to get better than for a bored townie.
He could be town or he could be mafia. Right now he is doing things I agree with. Why would I lynch him? You are right in that I could be wrong but so could you. I think Sandroba is scum, he is pushing Sandroba. Either he is bussing his team-mate (unlikely day 1 but could be true) or he is town with a correct read. From what I read he is making an effort to improve. You are right in that scum can do that as well, but if they do they become clearer to read. They make their views more apparent and ultimately become easier to catch.
Toast may be scum but I will not be voting for him today unless something drastic happens in the next few hours.
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On March 03 2012 06:07 Pandain wrote: Also anyone who realizes about what Palmar is should note the same for Toast
Wait, when did Palmar come into this? You've accused me of being scum, so are you now implying that Palmar is scum too?
And his latest play is suspicious. The harsh reaction to Sandroba's bad vote reasoning, as well as to my quote of the above material, hes playing like he's mafia.
My harsh reaction? Really? I don't even have a vote on him, I've just pointed that his posts are weird and lurky, and he could very possibly be the SK. Why is it you call me out for this and not the one person who is actively seeking a lynch on him? Your reasoning is so selective here.
On March 03 2012 06:20 Pandain wrote: How do you know what is correct? "They have correctly identified me as town", mafia do that all the time. In fact one of the best ways to gain town cred as mafia is to say "yeah this guy is innocent" when he's getting lynched.
So everyone who has declaired anybody as town this game is scum? Pandain, again your powers of absurd selective reasoning are beyond me. Everyone of the reasons you have used against me could be applied to half the people in this game. More rediculously the "core" of your evidence seems to stem from the ONE other full game of mafia I've played. Either you are a terrible town or you are scum trying to drum up a bandwagon. I'm beginning to think it's the latter.
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You don't let a scum go just because "they're improving". That's like: Person A: Hey I think your hair is ugly! Person B: HEY! But ok I'll fix it. Person A: Ok Now your alright.
Its counter productive. What's the point of accusing them if the goal is "to improve". We lynch scum, we don't lynch lurkers.
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I'm not lurking, I just don't have the same amount of time that I used to have to play mafia and make big posts. On that note I'm heading out, it's friday!
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On March 03 2012 05:31 TheToast wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 05:05 sandroba wrote: Hey toast your explanation of why I can't be scum reeks of extreme bs what can you say about that? Are you trying to discourage me from arguing against you as scum? Sandro, you've got only got 12 posts this game, clearly you've been lurking. You've made only one piss poor attempt at analysis, every other post you have made so far has been a short bit of weird fluff. It's glaringly clear you're not a vanilla townie this game. Idk what you rolled, but SK makes the most sense to me right now. It explains the lurker, and explains the abundance of fluff--even scum would be attempting to steer the game in some direction. If you can come up with something that explains your behavior this game, I'm all ears.
That's not "pointing out his posts are weird and lurky. " That's saying "no your analysis is shit." when Sandorba just made a one liner.
The other game is just support. The main thing, regardless, is that you have played "guiltily" like mafia do, you have not contributed original thoughts, and your harsh reactions to weak accusations. That could be a thesis statement for an AP english essay. Think about that.
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On March 03 2012 05:51 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 19:59 Probulous wrote:Jackal given you said this in Mafia L On January 16 2012 23:39 Jackal58 wrote:On January 16 2012 18:46 wherebugsgo wrote: anyway, for the world outside of Scamp, I have some pressing questions I want answered while I'm asleep: Jackal58: I agreed with everything you said day 1, which is either really good or really bad. What are your thoughts right now? Who's scum? Sandroba. When he disappears he's scum. He has disappeared. Would you shoot Sandroba if you had a gun this game. Jackal, maybe you missed this. Please can you respond. I'd try not to shoot anybody day 1. I'm almost always wrong.
On March 03 2012 06:04 Probulous wrote: Right now my reads correlate best with Palmar. I don't think Paperscraps is scum. He always writes very short posts with not much content, he correctly identified me as town early and I agree that decon's case was terrible. Sure Misder had engaged in a fluffy discussion regarding LAL (with me) but if that is all the case was based on then bluelightz should have been a bigger target. He was asking everyone for their opinions and sharing none. I agree that his absence since then and his terrible reason for voting decon (as far as I can tell) makes look really scummy but when Paperscraps replied the case was very weak.
Jackal is making himself hard to read. As above I disagree with paper but agree with Misder. He's lurking but that seems to be his usual day 1 play. Pandain seems towny to me. His case on toast helped clarify toast's alignment to me. Adam needs to post something of substance. His only game as scum (that I remember) he lurked all game long.
Sandroba, you're not helping yourself. The quote from Jackal in L corresponds very well to your current play. This is why I want Jackal's opinion. He shot you then, would he shoot you now? Toast is right to call you out for lack of contribution. Your response enforces his case.
##vote Sandroba I'm not hard to read. My English is exquisite.
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Sorry, no. I'm not letting you get away without answering the question. I'll quote this again:
On March 03 2012 06:07 Pandain wrote: Also anyone who realizes about what Palmar is should note the same for Toast
What does Palmar have to do with anything?
and your harsh reactions to weak accusations
So what, you are admitting your accusations are weak?
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I didn't call him scum. Anyone who understands will understand, I willl not go into more detail. And Sandroba's were poor, yes.
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##Vote Paperscraps
I've noted the defence of Paper, namely that posting short lists of players with little analysis is something he just does. That being said, something else he does is back up his votes with some reasoning. So far, his reasoning for voting deconduo is:
deconduo is scum for his horrible reads so far
His reaction to me calling him scum was pretty bad, telling me I slipped, when I just disagreed. Furthermore, Paperscraps' vote for deconduo came shortly after Palmar was grilling him, making him a seemingly easier target to jump on. The combination of the lack of reasoning and the fact that Palmar was grilling dec makes me think that Paper was trying to hop on a wagon while it was forming.
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On March 02 2012 18:52 Palmar wrote: Paperscraps looks towny, so does rgTS. I'm not really sure about teacup, but there's nothing super scummy in his posting so far.
I refuse to analyse jackal58, cause I never get it right. misder seems towny i think. Adam not so much, he could be scummer. I'm not quite sure about probulous, something is off about his play I think, but I can't exactly tell if it's because he's scum. Bluelightz is impossible to read, but assuming the obvious he's town.
I actually think snarfs looks pretty towny from his sk asking post, it just seemed genuine enough not to be fabricated to make us think he's clueless town, in addition I don't think scum often does that.
No clue about the rest really. Toast and Pandain and anyone else I might be forgetting, but if I forget you it's because your content has been worthless so far. So take it as an insult please.
These reads are only a fraction better then the list Misder posted, useless and effortless. You label me as scum yet you never follow it up. Why aren't you pressing me to try and find out my alignment if you think I could be 'scummer'. I think its because you have zero interest in finding scum.
Look at his town play: Hammer Mini Mafia
He is aggressive, he presses his reads. He doesn't give a shit what the rest of the town is doing. Contrast that with what we've seen so far this game.
##Vote Palmar
On March 03 2012 06:04 Probulous wrote: Right now my reads correlate best with Palmar. I don't think Paperscraps is scum. He always writes very short posts with not much content, he correctly identified me as town early and I agree that decon's case was terrible. Sure Misder had engaged in a fluffy discussion regarding LAL (with me) but if that is all the case was based on then bluelightz should have been a bigger target. He was asking everyone for their opinions and sharing none. I agree that his absence since then and his terrible reason for voting decon (as far as I can tell) makes look really scummy but when Paperscraps replied the case was very weak.
Jackal is making himself hard to read. As above I disagree with paper but agree with Misder. He's lurking but that seems to be his usual day 1 play. Pandain seems towny to me. His case on toast helped clarify toast's alignment to me. Adam needs to post something of substance. His only game as scum (that I remember) he lurked all game long.
Sandroba, you're not helping yourself. The quote from Jackal in L corresponds very well to your current play. This is why I want Jackal's opinion. He shot you then, would he shoot you now? Toast is right to call you out for lack of contribution. Your response enforces his case.
##vote Sandroba
Probulous, why are you sheeping Palmar? His case on sandroba is weak. "You couldn't spot a townie??? oh, you're scum!".
You are remembering my game as scum incorrectly, I stayed as active as everyone else and directed the town into stupid mislynches. I spent the whole game jumping on the easiest bandwagons that came along. I made it clear pre-game that I would be inactive for a majority of the first day. I don't find inactivity as a scum-tell, hence why I have not voted Misder.
Also, in TL50, Jackal did not shoot sandroba, he shot L. sandroba was lynched by the town.
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Iceland22590 Posts
Cause I want to lynch sandroba you dumbass. Don't be thick.
The case on sandroba isn't weak at all. It's based on the simple fact that his reads are off, he's disagreeing with me for the incorrect reasons and not putting any time into the game at all. I'll list it up:
1. Sandroba refused to try and point out a random townie in the thread because "he doesn't want to give away townreads". Now I know this is a common misconception, but sandroba is not dumb enough to fall for it like all the newbies. Giving away town reads is fine because if you force mafia to do it, they have to either call their scum mates town, or double back later in the game.
2. Sandroba's reasons for voting people in this game seem to not be the ones I'd expect him to use. he has basically attacked two people who in my opinion had at the time done very little that reveals much about their alignment in the thread.
3. Sandroba has put almost no effort into figuring out my alignment this game. While as town it would be a very obvious thing to do for him to put in a lot of effort into seeing if I'm scum, both because my scum play tends to be quite obvious and also because he knows that as a team we could probably smash the game.
I conclude, he must be scum.
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On March 03 2012 07:36 Snarfs wrote:##Vote PaperscrapsI've noted the defence of Paper, namely that posting short lists of players with little analysis is something he just does. That being said, something else he does is back up his votes with some reasoning. So far, his reasoning for voting deconduo is: Show nested quote +His reaction to me calling him scum was pretty bad, telling me I slipped, when I just disagreed. Furthermore, Paperscraps' vote for deconduo came shortly after Palmar was grilling him, making him a seemingly easier target to jump on. The combination of the lack of reasoning and the fact that Palmar was grilling dec makes me think that Paper was trying to hop on a wagon while it was forming.
The irony in this post is pretty laughable.
This whole entire post is pretty hypocritical as well.
I play a certain way at the beginning of games to gauge people's reactions. My FoS on Deconduo was because I thought his reads were off base. Then his reaction to my vote seemed overdone. I mean who cares what I think really. I was just one guy voting him up for a reaction test, in which he failed.
Now if I understand you correctly, Snarfs, two whole votes on some one is a bandwagon. You could accuse Deconduo for the same logic, which is bad logic btw. Palmar grilling Deconduo has nothing to do with this. Palmar didn't even vote him up, so your last point makes no sense at all. There is no bandwagon.
I will be the last person to be lynched in this game and probably one of the first to be murdered during the night.
Also Bluelightz has voted me which is hilarious.
On March 03 2012 03:58 Jackal58 wrote: misder and Papaerscraps both appear to be doing an omgus vote on Decon.
Why do you guys think Decon is scummy?
Jackal, it isn't OMGUS when I voted him first, which I have stated my reasons for doing so. If anything Decon has OMGUS on me right now.
On March 03 2012 04:06 deconduo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 17:07 Paperscraps wrote: Question do we know how many scum there are in the game?
My scum reads so far. Jackal - Has posted nothing of substance. He also agrees with Deconduo who is scum Deconduo - His reaction to me calling him scum was pretty bad, telling me I slipped, when I just disagreed. TheToast - Very defensive, diplomatic and not scum hunting at all.
##Vote: Deconduo
I messed up the format last time. Please explain how could you know my reads were bad if you are town? We lynch Misder today and Paper tomorrow. I had a look at Pandain's filter and its nothing as bad as these two.
I know Decon's reads are bad, because I am getting towntells from the people Decon is calling scum.
Doesn't the last sentence of this quote strike you as odd? Pushing on Misder and I, the only two people to have him voted up. If that isn't OMGUS, then I don't know what is.
I can see a bit of a team forming between Decon and Jackal right now.
Pandain has been playing more town as of late.
Palmar is playing weird this game so far. He might be scum.
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On March 03 2012 01:29 Snarfs wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 10:19 Bluelightz wrote:I could see Pandain as scum, I'll explain later, I can't explain now cuz I got school work tho. Seems you've decided Paper is more scummy, but I'd still like to hear an explanation for this one.
Oh, I forgot to tell I don't find Pandain scummy after I read his filter
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Hey Bluelightz are you going to change your vote to a better lynch like Decon or Jackal?
First off your case against me is weaksauce.
On March 02 2012 20:38 Bluelightz wrote:I do agree that there is an SK here.
I Believe Paperscraps is scum. Let's look at his posts. Show nested quote +On March 01 2012 14:35 Paperscraps wrote:Hey everybody!
Just got home from school.
The Probulous spam makes me laugh. I am cool with lynching all lurkers. Hopefully this will be an active game, so we don't have to resort to such measures. I am excited to play with a few more vets in this game, than my previous games. Quality of posts > Quantity of posts The part I italiced is just fluff. The other part of this post is just voicing his opinion Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 02:09 Paperscraps wrote: Probulous is town Palmar is null rg is town
deconduo is scum for his horrible reads so far
Vote: deconduo List = Useless, he didnt even provide reasons for why X is town, his reason for voting deconduo, I don't agree how reads can be horrible unless you know other people's alignment. Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 17:07 Paperscraps wrote: Question do we know how many scum there are in the game?
My scum reads so far. Jackal - Has posted nothing of substance. He also agrees with Deconduo who is scum Deconduo - His reaction to me calling him scum was pretty bad, telling me I slipped, when I just disagreed. TheToast - Very defensive, diplomatic and not scum hunting at all.
##Vote: Deconduo
I messed up the format last time. Fixed his vote, his list is not useless this time. and......... No more posts! Also, he is not providing anything useful to town and not contributing to the discussion. So, ##Vote: Paperscraps
I have provided a lot of useful information to town. I got a reaction out of Decon to show his true colors.
On March 02 2012 09:19 deconduo wrote: Scumslip much? I might have bad reads, but the only way you could know they were bad is if you're scum. Especially seeing as neither read was about you.
He is already doubting his reads. Of course I can't be 100% sure on anything, but some players are obviously townie.
Bluelightz and Deconduo argument's against me hinge on two main points. 1. I can't know if their reads are bad, unless I am scum 2. Making lists are bad and scummy.
When player A towntells and player B calls player A scum, then of course I am going to think something is wrong here. It is pretty reasonable to think they either (a) Player B is scum trying to get a townie lynched or (b) Player B is just bad at mafia and reading bad. I don't see the latter
Making lists is NOT scummy. Just because I don't provide a book long post on the merits of each player doesn't make me scum. Making lists is town. It lets you know where my reads are at and gauge me at my scum hunting abilities.
Just look at Decon and Jackal's filters and tell me they aren't scum. Jackal's filter takes 5 seconds to read and Decon's filter is full of non-sense and bad arguments.
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Yeah im changing it but im still typing up the post :|
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I'm here guys, I think I'll go into starting my list now,
Jackal58 - Leaning Scum - He post's nothing of worth and is useless.
Paperscraps - Null - His response to my case well.... wasn't THAT good, but im gonna unvote him for now.
Probulous - Leaning Town - Has posted much content and is being active and contributing to the discussion
Snarfs - Leaning Town - He is looking townie to me but, he could easily flip scum though.
rgTheSchworz - Leaning Third Party Maybe - This post is interesting because IF he is the SK he is trying to make people thinking he's not the SK
Misder - Null - He didnt explain his lists, but he did hel;pl move discussion so, Null.
Pandain - Leaning Town - He has been acting fairly townish.
Palmar - Null - He has been posting a lot of one liners, but he could be town.
Sandroba - Null - Same as Palmar
TheToast - Null - He is looking fairly townish, but he could easily be scum.....
Adam4167 - Leaning Town - He is actively contributing and providing opinions.
A Killer Cuppa Tea - Leaning Town - He does look townish, but he has to step up and be more active & contribute.
deconduo - Null - As paper said he overreacted to paper's vote, but he could be town.
Right now, I believe rgTS has the largest chance of being scum so I am voting him.
##Vote: rgTheSchworz
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On March 03 2012 08:42 Palmar wrote: Cause I want to lynch sandroba you dumbass. Don't be thick.
The case on sandroba isn't weak at all. It's based on the simple fact that his reads are off, he's disagreeing with me for the incorrect reasons and not putting any time into the game at all. I'll list it up:
1. Sandroba refused to try and point out a random townie in the thread because "he doesn't want to give away townreads". Now I know this is a common misconception, but sandroba is not dumb enough to fall for it like all the newbies. Giving away town reads is fine because if you force mafia to do it, they have to either call their scum mates town, or double back later in the game.
2. Sandroba's reasons for voting people in this game seem to not be the ones I'd expect him to use. he has basically attacked two people who in my opinion had at the time done very little that reveals much about their alignment in the thread.
3. Sandroba has put almost no effort into figuring out my alignment this game. While as town it would be a very obvious thing to do for him to put in a lot of effort into seeing if I'm scum, both because my scum play tends to be quite obvious and also because he knows that as a team we could probably smash the game.
I conclude, he must be scum.
I am not being thick, I am following my read.
Your entire case boils down to 'meta' of Sandroba. I've underlined everything 'meta' in your case on him that you just expanded on.
I find pure meta cases weak and so do you.
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Iceland22590 Posts
this isn't a pure meta case. Of course it's influenced by the fact that I give sandroba less leeway then the normal newbie, but anyone posting the way he is would be wrong and scummy, it's just less likely he's dumb than the normal townie.
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United States5684 Posts
Current Vote Count: Ties are ordered Chronologically due to Voting Rules
Misder - 3 deconduo A Killer Cuppa Tea Jackal58
TheToast - 2 Pandain Sandroba
Palmar - 2 Paperscraps Adam4167
Sandroba - 2 Palmar Probulous
deconduo - 1 Misder
Paperscraps
Pandain - 1
Sandroba rgTheSchworz
Paperscraps - 1
Bluelightz Snarfs
rgTheSchworz - 1 Bluelightz
Probulous - 0
rgTheSchworz
A Killer Cuppa Tea - 0
Probulous
Not Yet Voted: (Player List Order) TheToast
If there is a mistake, please let me know! There are about 1.75 hours until voting ends.
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I voted rgTS now not paper.
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Iceland22590 Posts
Can we get some people to switch to sandroba please, misder is very unlikely to flip scum.
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A correction: Voting ends at 12:00 KST, in two hours.
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I'm having some major issues with my ISP right now (interent has been down for over an hour). Just in case I don't get back online in time I'm just setting a place holder vote.
Vote: No Lynch
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There are no No Lynches, you may only vote for other players, or yourself.
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United States5684 Posts
Voting rules: 1. Voting is done in this thread. Please keep votes there, and only vote there. Do not PM me your vote. 2. Please vote in the following format: ##Vote Qatol. Votes not done in the correct fashion will not be counted. I will update vote counts whenever I get the chance. 3. No conditional voting. 4. You may vote for yourself. You may not vote for anyone dead or outside the game. 5. In the event of a tie the person with the most votes first wins (or loses). 6. Voting is mandatory. You may NOT abstain.
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##Unvote
##Vote Sandroba
I'll give a longer(ish) post later, before the day ends. I'm leaving work now and want to make sure that if I get stuck in traffic or anything at least this gets in.
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I gotta go now, cant make it for deadline.
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Palmar, I see nothing in sandroba's filter that is jumping out at me as him being an obvious scum, if you take away the sandroba name.
Hes posted very little, but the same can be said for several other players, myself included.
Who is your next best scum read?
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I urge everyone to look over my analysis of the Toast, and realize that he has played mafia the entire game. I urge you to take a reread through the thread (not the filter [/b], and realize where he has said things and at what time.
The beginning: Played apologetically(note this is how Ver caught Misder in his guide ), played defensively, cautiously. This is what new mafia do.
Note the stuff he's said, like "thats all i was saying" and the general "im sorry" mood.
The middle: I post an analysis of him and he reacts STRONGLY. Despite not having actually contributed to the thread before or since , whenever he gets accused he happens to be passionate. More than that, notice that anytime hes accused he reacts. Like when Sandroba posted that one liner, or I quoted the vote thing(which wasn't even an accusation.) He treated it like one, because that was in his mindset. Mafia will be afraid of getting caught, so they view everything in perspective of making sure they appear town.
Not only that, but his whole "damm pandain you have horrible arguments and are acting scum" and "but your still not good enough to vote" are pretty ironic considering the strength of his accusations of me.
No one else is more suspicious. The votes on Misder are suspicious( no reason Jackal, poor reason Jackal, and then decondou is ok).
Palmar is not a good vote. while he is definitely suspicious, we should not lynch a vet day 1 just because he hasn't played 100% pro townish. I think we need to examine him more later, when we have more evidence. I feel there's just not enough on him.
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Iceland22590 Posts
you Adam4167
also, if I'm scum you lynch me, vet or not it's bad logic to let vets get away with shit.
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On March 03 2012 10:17 Mr. Wiggles wrote: There are no No Lynches, you may only vote for other players, or yourself.
Sorry.
##Vote: TheToast
+ Show Spoiler + The issue appears resolved, but I was having problems when I re-enabled windows firewall; also same deal with my router... Either way I think I've almost got it fixed
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Then build your case. You have more experience with my town play then anyone else in this game, so if you think this isn't it, do something about it.
I can tell you that you're wrong, since I'm town, but I have nothing to hide.
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Iceland22590 Posts
I can only lynch one person today, and I think sandroba has a much higher chance of flipping scum than you. Hell, he isn't even trying to deflect the lynch off of him.
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United States5684 Posts
Current Vote Count: Ties are ordered Chronologically due to Voting Rules
Misder - 3 deconduo A Killer Cuppa Tea Jackal58
Sandroba - 3 Palmar Probulous Snarfs
TheToast - 3 Pandain Sandroba TheToast
Palmar - 2 Paperscraps Adam4167
deconduo - 1 Misder
Paperscraps
Pandain - 1
Sandroba rgTheSchworz
rgTheSchworz - 1 Bluelightz
Probulous - 0
rgTheSchworz
A Killer Cuppa Tea - 0
Probulous
Paperscraps - 0
Bluelightz
Snarfs
If there is a mistake, please let me know! There is less than 1 hour until voting ends.
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Adam I am not sheeping Palmar. You hadn't produced anything of note until recently. Sandrona is actively lurking and seemingly has no interest in this game. When he is town he has shown skill in putting together decent cases. He isn't even bothering to try this game. He played like this L where he was scum. Add those together and you get mafia.
My vote stands. I am heading to the wedding now. The cases against Paper and Decon are terrible. Misder is a maybe. Toast looks town to me. Palmar has some interesting points and his reads aligned with mine, I won't be voting for him today.
From phone.
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+ Show Spoiler +alright, pretty sure the wireless router is dead, but I think I'm good for right now '
Right now Pandain is looking awful scumish to me. He caught my attention with this post again Probulous early in the game:
On March 01 2012 12:57 Pandain wrote: That took a long time to post. Are you hiding something?
It was weird and out of place at the time. Both Probulous and sandro called him out on it and he completely ignored them. He has yet to respond to their accusations. Instead he comes back at me with accusations that I'm scum because I've been too nice this game, based off the one other full game of Mafia I've played.
His accusations have just gotten weirder from there:
Contrast this tone with the others. Looks like hes trying hard to make a good point(with italics + bolding and shit). Not only that but while writing this post he researched other players(shown by his accusations of me, saying how I had 4 posts, noting my play).
Apparently I'm scum because I bold things. wut? I've gone into why these couple of posts are complete BS in my previous posts, so I will refrain from repeating myself here.
These two posts were really what convinced me though:
Also anyone who realizes about what Palmar is should note the same for Toast
On March 03 2012 06:46 Pandain wrote: I didn't call him scum. Anyone who understands will understand, I willl not go into more detail. Given his accusations against me, he's basically making a scum claim against Palmar; then comes back and says he won't elaborate on that. To me, Palmar is reading townish right now. I have no idea where Pandain got this from and since he refuses to elaborate, I can only assume that he's decided to setup one of the most veteran scum hunters in this game for a day 2 lynch.
I think even if most of us though Palmar was scum, no one is going to support his lynch Day 1. So what's the next best thing for scum to do? Yup, set him up for the day 2 lynch. This reads completely scummy to me.
##Unvote ##Vote: Pandain
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Voting is now over, Misder is to be lynched
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Why Sandroba:
First off, I didn't like Sandroba's vote on Pandain that early in the day with such terrible reasoning. To paraphrase: "I notice subtleties, that's how I hunt scum". If that's the case, why don't you point out the subtleties for me? I wouldn't be offended.
Second, as Probulous mentioned, he doesn't seem to care. This is a stark contrast to previous games I've looked through where he is town.
Finally, I will put my trust in some of the more experienced members of this game, especially when it adds up with other things I'm noticing. If Palmar says someone is scum and I have a scummy feeling about them, vs if someone else says someone is scum and I have a scummy feeling about them, it's going to weigh differently and I don't see any point in denying it. That being said, I also have to be more wary of people like Palmar because I am putting a little more faith in them.
Anyways, it's 7:00 now so should see the results before I post more....
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Night 1: A Messy Start "So, this is one of them, you say?" Captain Wiggles asked, looking down at Misder, who had been forced to his knees between his two captors.
"Aye, Cap'n, we caught 'im snoopin' around near your quarters, acting suspicious-like. So we ask 'im what 'e was doing down there, and 'e say 'e was just lookin'", the sailor spat onto the ground, "Bah, like we would believe somethin' like that, there ain't no reason to be where 'e was, so we brought 'im straight 'ere, to you.".
Captain Wiggles scrutinized Misder closely, but received no reaction besides a blank stare. He sighed, "Well, if that's how you want to do things..."
With those words, Captain Wiggles quickly pulled out his pistol and shot Misder through the heart. The two men holding Misder jumped back from the corpse, and stared at the Captain with a mix of suprise and fear as the body toppled over sideways onto the deck.
Captain Wiggles paid no attention to the two men, but was instead staring at the green blood pooling from the body onto the planks beneath it with a look of disgust on his face.
"Well, it looks as if you haven't done your jobs properly, doesn't it?"
"We're sorry, Cap'n, we swear we thought 'e was one of them mutineers!"
Now the Captain turned his back on the two men, "Just clean this mess up, and make sure it doesn't happen again.".
Misder the Townie has been lynched!
Night 1 has now begun. Day 2 will begin at 11:00 KST, 23 hours from now. Please remember to submit all actions to myself and Mattchew before then.
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You have got to be shitting me. 3 votes? Really? 3 fucking votes? And nobody has posted since the fucking flip? You have got to be fucking shitting me.
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On March 03 2012 13:46 Jackal58 wrote: You have got to be shitting me. 3 votes? Really? 3 fucking votes? And nobody has posted since the fucking flip? You have got to be fucking shitting me.
Oh, give me a break.
If you are are so unimpressed with the current state of the game, why don't you try contributing something instead of lurking and trolling.
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I'm back and drunk. I was leaning scum on misder so not such a bad lynch, but the fucker flipped town. Fuck everyone that voted him. I kill you. GG
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Yeah, like always, someone says something wrong day 1 and gets accused of uselessness and watnot. The guy was just stating his opinion and didnt have anything scummy about him. Ergo, there is probably 1 scum who voted him,2 would be too risky, because he was the first to 3 votes.Scum like to hedge their bets.
I would still vote Pandain today, his way of defending Cup with WIFOM and voting the Toast, who, by his reaction, is fairly townish.
Also, sandro looks scum.
Gotta sharpen my knife for the night.Or is it a gun?
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Wait for me to kill bitches b4 you shoot me thx
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rg who are you shooting tonight?
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I.... I.... what happened
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Who said I m a vig? I didnt roll scum, FYI.
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On March 03 2012 15:36 Adam4167 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 13:46 Jackal58 wrote: You have got to be shitting me. 3 votes? Really? 3 fucking votes? And nobody has posted since the fucking flip? You have got to be fucking shitting me. Oh, give me a break. If you are are so unimpressed with the current state of the game, why don't you try contributing something instead of lurking and trolling.
That is the towniest thing you've done all game
Jackal if you were so adamant that paper was scum your two line case that he OMGUSing is not enough. Push harder next time. Paper did more than Misder who turned up town. I still think sandroba is scum. Drunk or not. The case against Misder was weak but he did place a crappy vote and then disappear. You don't shoot everyone who voted for him. Sarcasm or not that is a stupid comment to make because real vigs might take you seriously.
RG stop playing the idiot. No-one believes the 1001 things you have claimed. Going to bed now. Thoughts in the morning.
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Sorry for not being all that active so far this game guys, i got a sudden and unexpected spurt of busy-ness that should be over with now!
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On March 03 2012 16:44 sandroba wrote: I'm back and drunk. I was leaning scum on misder so not such a bad lynch, but the fucker flipped town. Fuck everyone that voted him. I kill you. GG
There have been two useless players in this game, Misder and you. I'd be quite happy if a vig takes you out tonight. Its unfortunate that Misder flipped town, but he wasn't doing anything to help anyway. He had a single useless post over a 44 hour period.
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Iceland22590 Posts
misder as far from useless, anyone voting him is not reading the thread, stupid, or scum.
Deconduo, you decided to use an easy fucking bullshit explanation to vote a townie, even after I told you that it was bullshit, and I later explained that I thought he was town. I take that as an insult. You're literally calling me bad at mafia by straight up refusing to listen to me.
I will make sure you die this game.
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Please remember to send any possible night actions to both myself and Mattchew before Night ends in 7 and a half hours. Any actions sent after the deadline will not be counted.
Also, to anyone not playing in the game, there is an observer QT. Right now there's only one person in it, so he might be lonely. Join!
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On March 04 2012 03:14 Palmar wrote: misder as far from useless, anyone voting him is not reading the thread, stupid, or scum.
Show me a single useful post from him. Just one post where he makes one good analysis against one player. Even sandroba has one. Now shut up and play.
On March 04 2012 03:14 Palmar wrote: Deconduo, you decided to use an easy fucking bullshit explanation to vote a townie, even after I told you that it was bullshit, and I later explained that I thought he was town. I take that as an insult. You're literally calling me bad at mafia by straight up refusing to listen to me.
I will make sure you die this game.
LOL
All you said is that I was wrong. You gave no explanation or reasoning behind that opinion, even after I asked:
On March 02 2012 01:48 deconduo wrote: If you think I'm wrong, point out why. Don't say I'm wrong and not elaborate, its pointless. If you're town you should be explaining your opinions rather than brick walling.
If you don't give me any reason to listen to you, why should I give a fuck about your opinion. Its your own fault Misder died because you are too full of yourself and think everyone should listen to you, rather than making a decent argument. Start playing properly and lose the god complex.
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Iceland22590 Posts
are you dumb? do you need obvious information spoonfed to you?
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Iceland22590 Posts
and everyone should listen to me, we'd have one less townie dead if people did
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On March 04 2012 04:41 Palmar wrote: are you dumb? do you need obvious information spoonfed to you?
If thats what you take from it, then yes. I have no respect for you as a mafia player. The fact that Misder got lynched proves that you are either wrong or bad.
-Either you are such a terrible mafia player that you couldn't convince people to lynch Sandroba over Misder, despite the fact that the case against Misder was obviously wrong.
-Or the case against Misder wasn't obviously wrong and you are just butthurt.
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On March 04 2012 04:45 Palmar wrote: and everyone should listen to me, we'd have one less townie dead if people did
Why should people listen to you if you don't give them any reason to.
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Iceland22590 Posts
it was obviously wrong, as has been proven.
And yes, I'll fully admit I have no idea how to make people listen to me.
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Three people voted Misder: Deconduo, AKCT and Jackal. They all give me a scum vibe, but I can't believe that scum would vote together like that on the first day. At least one of them has to be scum though or they are all just bad at this game.
Deconduo's little back and forth with Palmar today was interesting. Deconduo calling Palmar bad at scum hunting is pretty funny imo. Deconduo blamed Palmar for Misder's death, but Decon was the one with the vote on Misder. Pretty contradictory. Palmar is still null to me right now although Palmar's read on Misder was correct and Decon's read was wrong, as I have said in previous posts. I am still leaning towards Decon being scum. He is redirecting blame on to others when he should accept responsibility.
Jackal has posted no substance at all. His reaction to the Misder lynch was over done. He has buddied/defended Decon which I find scummy. @Jackal: I would like to see some actual scum hunting come from you. Anything at all really, that isn't filler
A Killer Cuppa Tea uses being drunk as an excuse for pretty much everything. Also AKCT thought Probulous was mafia which is a pretty bad read. Right now I think AKCT is just a ignorant townie.
Sandroba will by far be the easy lynch tomorrow and maybe rightly so. Posts one line content and filler. I don't agree with Sandroba's read on TheToast as of now. TheToast is null to me at the moment. I feel as though Sandroba might be too easy of a lynch. If Sandroba is mafia, then why lurk and post crap and be sure to get lynched. Does Sandroba just not care about the game? Maybe just a bored vanilla townie?
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On March 01 2012 12:16 Probulous wrote: As my first act I want to call out Bluelightz! Every game I have read or played with you I have not been able to tell your alignment. This diverts unecessary attention and time away from useful scum hunting. So shape up and be active. If you lurk this game I will make sure you swing from the yard-arm.
I know it is odd to quote yourself out of nowhere but I feel this has been neglected.
@Bluelightz, what the shit?
I asked you in my very first post to not lurk. You started the game by spamming stupid policy questions and asking everyone under the sun for their opinions. Then you disappeared. The only thing of yours that is more than two lines is your ridiculous reads page. Let's take a look.
On March 03 2012 09:56 Bluelightz wrote:Jackal58 - Leaning Scum - He post's nothing of worth and is useless. rgTheSchworz - Leaning Third Party Maybe - This post is interesting because IF he is the SK he is trying to make people thinking he's not the SK
Right now, I believe rgTS has the largest chance of being scum so I am voting him. ##Vote: rgTheSchworz
I'll ignore the fact that you voted for Paperscraps because he made a useless list for now What the fuck is this? You have been told numerous times not to post town/null lists. At least this time you label someone red. But your reason is so majorly hypocritical and stupid it hurts my brain. Jackal, from what I have read always lurks day 1. But the real kicker is that you then decide not to vote for him? Instead you vote for the person you called third party and then in the same post they changed to scum?
You also left your vote there when it was clear he was never going to get lynched. That is an easy way to avoid responsibility.
I charged you this game with making your alignment clear. Especially by not lurking. You have chosen not to do this. In addition you are voting and pushing people with stupid reasoning. If you don't provide something useful before the end of today, I will be happy pushing for your lynch. You know that people have let you off previously for lurking. That is why I called you out, if you continue to do it I can only assume you are doing it on purpose and so must die.
Before someone says he can't be scum because they wouldn't let him post like this, he has done this before and gotten off with that excuse. I wouldn't put it past them to use that against us.
Sorry about the wall, told you it was hard to avoid
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Final Vote Count:
Misder - 3 deconduo A Killer Cuppa Tea Jackal58
Sandroba - 3 Palmar Probulous Snarfs
TheToast - 3 Pandain Sandroba
TheToast
Palmar - 2 Paperscraps Adam4167
deconduo - 1 Misder
Paperscraps
Pandain - 1
Sandroba rgTheSchworz TheToast
rgTheSchworz - 1 Bluelightz
Probulous - 0
rgTheSchworz
A Killer Cuppa Tea - 0
Probulous
Paperscraps - 0
Bluelightz
Snarfs
inb4 posting useless lists
These people need to explain their votes
TheToast You deliberately chose to vote for someone who was not going to be lynched. Your vote was at 11:50 and you voted for Pandain who had two votes at the time. It was obvious that only Sandroba or Misder were possible candidates because everyone had already placed their votes. Yours was last. You effectively chose Misder over Sandroba without saying so. Explain.
Paperscraps I can't find your vote on Palmar. What the hell happened with your vote, the only thing I see in your filter is a vote for decon. Am I missing something?
Adam You were at a wedding yesterday so I expected you to be absent like myself (I tried to be around). But you posted at 1:30 before deadline when most votes had already been placed. So you had the information available to make a choice for a candidate who had the possibility of being lynched. You voted for Palmar when it was clear he was not a possible candidate. I can't find Paperscraps' vote so right now you effectively voted on your own. Nice way to avoid taking responsibility for a lynch. Explain.
Bluelightz As explained in my previous post about you. What the fuck dude?
These four had votes for people who clearly had little to no chance of being lynched. Now doubt you are all scum but I am sure that at least one of you is. What easier way to avoid taking responsibility for your vote then by placing it on someone who will not be lynched. I've done that as scum successfully in the past.
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Oh yeah, that is a mod error. I voted for Deconduo. I don't know that happened.
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United States5684 Posts
Uh. My bad lol. Incorrect mod count
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On March 04 2012 07:49 Probulous wrote:
Adam You were at a wedding yesterday so I expected you to be absent like myself (I tried to be around). But you posted at 1:30 before deadline when most votes had already been placed. So you had the information available to make a choice for a candidate who had the possibility of being lynched. You voted for Palmar when it was clear he was not a possible candidate. I can't find Paperscraps' vote so right now you effectively voted on your own. Nice way to avoid taking responsibility for a lynch. Explain.
These four had votes for people who clearly had little to no chance of being lynched. Now doubt you are all scum but I am sure that at least one of you is. What easier way to avoid taking responsibility for your vote then by placing it on someone who will not be lynched. I've done that as scum successfully in the past.
I didn't support either of the 'main' lynches yesterday and considering the votes ended up being split 3-3 in favour of your two main candidates, neither did most other people. I was not avoiding responsibility by not voting for Misder, go read my filter, I didn't think he was scum. Lazy, yes. scum, no. I also didn't vote for sandroba on similar reasons, I think he is being lazy or just plain doesn't give a shit, which is not indicative of his alignment to me. So I was presented with the 'choice' of voting for two people, neither of which I find overly scummy. So I decided to provoke Palmar, partly because I feel his play is different to what I expect from town Palmar, partly to gain a better read on him in case I am wrong and he is town. The result is I still don't know what his alignment is. I asked him to produce more content (in the form of a case on me), but he refused as he was hell-bent on only focusing on sandroba yesterday, so I don't know what to make of him.
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I was sleeping bro, I'm gonna get on my comp first though to explain it.
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On March 04 2012 09:05 Adam4167 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2012 07:49 Probulous wrote:
Adam You were at a wedding yesterday so I expected you to be absent like myself (I tried to be around). But you posted at 1:30 before deadline when most votes had already been placed. So you had the information available to make a choice for a candidate who had the possibility of being lynched. You voted for Palmar when it was clear he was not a possible candidate. I can't find Paperscraps' vote so right now you effectively voted on your own. Nice way to avoid taking responsibility for a lynch. Explain.
These four had votes for people who clearly had little to no chance of being lynched. Now doubt you are all scum but I am sure that at least one of you is. What easier way to avoid taking responsibility for your vote then by placing it on someone who will not be lynched. I've done that as scum successfully in the past. I didn't support either of the 'main' lynches yesterday and considering the votes ended up being split 3-3 in favour of your two main candidates, neither did most other people. I was not avoiding responsibility by not voting for Misder, go read my filter, I didn't think he was scum. Lazy, yes. scum, no. I also didn't vote for sandroba on similar reasons, I think he is being lazy or just plain doesn't give a shit, which is not indicative of his alignment to me. So I was presented with the 'choice' of voting for two people, neither of which I find overly scummy. So I decided to provoke Palmar, partly because I feel his play is different to what I expect from town Palmar, partly to gain a better read on him in case I am wrong and he is town. The result is I still don't know what his alignment is . I asked him to produce more content (in the form of a case on me), but he refused as he was hell-bent on only focusing on sandroba yesterday, so I don't know what to make of him.
This is my biggest problem with him too.
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Alright, at the time I didnt believe either Sandroba or Misder was scum.
At the time I already said I wouldnt be there for the deadline so I couldnt change it.\
I voted rgTS like I said, he had the highest chance of flipping scum to me.
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Day 2: The Voyage Continues rgTheSchworz was leaning on the railing of the ship, sipping rum from a canteen. He was supposed to be on night lookout, watching for any suspicious activities, to avoid a reapeat of what had happened to Foolishness, but he didn't take his task too seriously. He instead opted to spend the night swigging rum and reminiscing about old times on the ship. He liked the Captain, he was the one who made sure they had rum and other luxuries; he took care of the crew. rgTheSchworz smiled, and stood up unsteadily from the railing, to walk around the ship. He had to at least look like he was doing his job.
That was when a pair of strong hands suddenly took hold of him from behind. In his drunkenness, he was too slow to react, as they pushed him back to the railing, and toppled him over into the sea.
rgTheSchworz the Townie has been lost at sea!
Day 2 has begun! The deadline for Day 2 is 12 KST 49 hours from now!
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Cant say i'm surprised with that.
Id like to hear something worthwhile out of sandroba or jackal today, skating by doing nothing is a lame effort from vets.
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AKCT visited rhtheschworz last night.
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On March 04 2012 13:29 Pandain wrote: AKCT visited rhtheschworz last night.
Well well, isn't that interesting.
Since you've claimed blue already, can you tell me if you Tracked AKCT or if you Watched rgTheSchworz? I assume its the latter, but id like to know for sure.
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If AKCT flips scum Pandain is confirmed town. also, wrong read on rgTS .
I agree Adam I'd also like to see more from the vets.
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On March 04 2012 13:29 Pandain wrote: AKCT visited rhtheschworz last night.
Honestly this is very believable. AKCT has played a scummy game so far. AKCT needs to claim a role though, before we proceed with anything.
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Iceland22590 Posts
I don't actually care what AKCT claims.
##Vote A killer cuppa tea
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GG, guys, hope what I planned works.
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Meh gonna vote
##Vote: A Killer Cuppa Tea
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Iceland22590 Posts
There is no sensible reason to disbelieve pandain's claim, so AKCT is going to have to claim. Now, he can't really claim medic because the chances of scum double stacking rgTS on night 1 seem very slim.
If he claims vig we lynch him, because that shot was beyond stupid.
so what's left are the tracker and the watcher. I just don't think we have multiple of those in such a small setup. He can't exactly claim watcher either because that way he'd know who visited rgTS, so I guess he's going to counterclaim tracker or something? Or try to make us believe we have more than one?
For this reason I am going to disbelieve any claim he claims. The only reasonable claim for him from a balance/viability standpoint i claiming watcher and point to a random townie and getting that player lynched, but in this case we lynch him anyway, and before we lynch the guy he points a finger at.
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On March 04 2012 12:28 Adam4167 wrote: Cant say i'm surprised with that.
Id like to hear something worthwhile out of sandroba or jackal today, skating by doing nothing is a lame effort from vets. You will. This is the one of the very few day 2s I've seen in a long time. Now it's worth playing.
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What is the mafia KP formula?
Did anyone take a hit last night? If not, its not unreasonable to think that rg was hit twice. I highly doubt that the anti-town KP is only 1. While mafia doublestacking RG is unlikely, its possible both SK and mafia went after him independently.
However until I hear ACKT come up with an explanation,
##Vote A Killer Cup of Tea
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On March 05 2012 00:57 deconduo wrote: What is the mafia KP formula?
Did anyone take a hit last night? If not, its not unreasonable to think that rg was hit twice. I highly doubt that the anti-town KP is only 1. While mafia doublestacking RG is unlikely, its possible both SK and mafia went after him independently.
However until I hear ACKT come up with an explanation,
##Vote A Killer Cup of Tea The KP formula is hidden
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##Vote: A Killer Cuppa Tea
I agree that it's highly unlikely that AKCT can come up with an explanation that isn't too complicated to be believable. At this point, no matter what he says, the most likely case is that he's a killer.
On March 05 2012 00:57 deconduo wrote: What is the mafia KP formula?
Did anyone take a hit last night? If not, its not unreasonable to think that rg was hit twice. I highly doubt that the anti-town KP is only 1. While mafia doublestacking RG is unlikely, its possible both SK and mafia went after him independently.
However until I hear ACKT come up with an explanation,
##Vote A Killer Cup of Tea Assuming Pandain is a watcher unless he claims otherwise, would he not have seen more than one person visiting rgTS if there was more than one person hitting him? If he's a tracker this might work.
On March 04 2012 18:07 Paperscraps wrote:Honestly this is very believable. AKCT has played a scummy game so far. AKCT needs to claim a role though, before we proceed with anything. Why's that? Is he your scumbuddy and you want to give him an out?
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/shrug
i'm vanilla townie, lynch Pandain when i flip town? I don't know why scum would make such a silly trade.
##Vote Pandain for the record, cos i dont even have a visiting role :V
(unless he's, like, paranoid tracker or something, i've seen that before)
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I can't think of any way AKCT can be anything but scum. It's very unlikely pandain would make that claim as scum so I'm going to roll with it. ##Vote A Killer Cup of Tea
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it kinda sucks cos i was reading town on Pandain yesterday. Hmm. Also, i think its alarming that he didnt vote me in the same post he claimed i visited the dead person? Why's that? Waiting for others to jump on the wagon first?
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Yea, to be honest with you, town's best option prolly is to lynch me - its like cop claiming guilty on someone and we lynch the cop claim to test it, it just doesnt work that way. Owell, at least my flip will be worth something.
Incidentally, blue role do not counterclaim Pandain.
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On March 05 2012 00:57 deconduo wrote: What is the mafia KP formula?
Did anyone take a hit last night? If not, its not unreasonable to think that rg was hit twice. I highly doubt that the anti-town KP is only 1. While mafia doublestacking RG is unlikely, its possible both SK and mafia went after him independently.
However until I hear ACKT come up with an explanation,
##Vote A Killer Cup of Tea Speculation does nothing for us. rg was one of the most active voices day 1.
Activity level in this game is amazingly low. I know my level is as bad or worse than anybodies. Prior commitments are now out of the way.
Adam are you going to do anything other than defend Sandroba, fish for blues and call me out for my disbelief in Misder being lynched by 3 people? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=315210&user=192320
Adam is scum.
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On March 05 2012 04:45 A Killer Cuppa Tea wrote: /shrug
i'm vanilla townie, lynch Pandain when i flip town? I don't know why scum would make such a silly trade.
##Vote Pandain for the record, cos i dont even have a visiting role :V
(unless he's, like, paranoid tracker or something, i've seen that before) Pandain makes claims as scum just to make claims as scum. That said you're still first.
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On March 05 2012 04:57 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2012 00:57 deconduo wrote: What is the mafia KP formula?
Did anyone take a hit last night? If not, its not unreasonable to think that rg was hit twice. I highly doubt that the anti-town KP is only 1. While mafia doublestacking RG is unlikely, its possible both SK and mafia went after him independently.
However until I hear ACKT come up with an explanation,
##Vote A Killer Cup of Tea Speculation does nothing for us. rg was one of the most active voices day 1. Activity level in this game is amazingly low. I know my level is as bad or worse than anybodies. Prior commitments are now out of the way. Adam are you going to do anything other than defend Sandroba, fish for blues and call me out for my disbelief in Misder being lynched by 3 people? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=315210&user=192320Adam is scum.
Yeah the fact that AKCT claimed vanilla means its irrelevant. One of them is scum so we lynch AKCT today. The last thing we need to do today is to go inactive though. We can't let the discussion die just because we've caught one mafia.
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I got hit last night btw.
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AKCT is town. I was just seeing how he reacted :<.
He was the second most suspicious person I had, so I just decided to pressure him a little. What he did was opposite of mafia. If he was mafia, he would have claimed to have a blue role, not a vanilla townie. Instead, he's been actively offering the right thing to do in his situation(if town): Lynch him, and then lynch me.
If he's SK the situation is a little different, but still points to him as town. He's perfectly alright with being lynched( when he CAN'T as SK if he wants to live.) So basically now, in my opinion, AKCT is 100% town.
+ Show Spoiler + basically im not watcher/tracker unless im pulling epic mindfuck games
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Also I know this is going to come up so to get it out of the way:
1. There is NO reason I would do this if mafia. Think of one. Please. Tell me.
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On March 05 2012 06:29 Pandain wrote: Also I know this is going to come up so to get it out of the way:
1. There is NO reason I would do this if mafia. Think of one. Please. Tell me.
No reason to do it as mafia at all. But you never use rationality as a reason when you make claims.
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I leave the thread for a while and this happens!
Nice ploy Pandain, I agree AKCT gets town for his response.
This I find strange
On March 04 2012 12:28 Adam4167 wrote: Cant say i'm surprised with that. I was very surprised.
Rg basically claimed Vanilla Townie or possibly Veteran. Here is something I wrote and was keeping for when his claims became useful.
Claims to be able to half sandrobas chance of surviving night -> Vig/SK
On March 01 2012 16:28 rgTheSchworz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2012 13:02 sandroba wrote: I'm kinda bore with Lynch all Liars/Lurkers talk. This game we shall try something new: Lynch whoever I tell you to lynch and win. It works wonders. Your chances of surviving another night are now halved,sir. ... Ive randomed a purely awesome role this game.
Repeat of above -> Vig/SK
On March 01 2012 21:06 rgTheSchworz wrote: Yeah, and Mr Hydra, I rolled something awesome this game, so I can make Sandro and others pay for their cockiness.
Claims not to be SK -> Vig
On March 02 2012 03:48 rgTheSchworz wrote: it s probable that we dont have an SK. ... So, Mr SK, we lynch u after all scum have gone,ok? Therefore is either a Vig or a Veteran trying to get shot in a really stupid way (again).
The he says
On March 03 2012 19:33 rgTheSchworz wrote: Who said I m a vig? I didnt roll scum, FYI. So just from reading his filter his claims don't make sense. Strange hit for me. I guess I was wrong about his attempts to get shot being stupid but that just says mafia aren't reading filters properly.
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On March 04 2012 09:05 Adam4167 wrote: I didn't support either of the 'main' lynches yesterday and considering the votes ended up being split 3-3 in favour of your two main candidates, neither did most other people. I was not avoiding responsibility by not voting for Misder, go read my filter, I didn't think he was scum. Lazy, yes. scum, no. I also didn't vote for sandroba on similar reasons, I think he is being lazy or just plain doesn't give a shit, which is not indicative of his alignment to me. So I was presented with the 'choice' of voting for two people, neither of which I find overly scummy. So I decided to provoke Palmar, partly because I feel his play is different to what I expect from town Palmar, partly to gain a better read on him in case I am wrong and he is town. The result is I still don't know what his alignment is. I asked him to produce more content (in the form of a case on me), but he refused as he was hell-bent on only focusing on sandroba yesterday, so I don't know what to make of him.
Fair enough. You had explained your reasons for not voting these two. Misder's was a little difficult to find but it is in there.
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On March 04 2012 10:41 Bluelightz wrote: Alright, at the time I didnt believe either Sandroba or Misder was scum.
At the time I already said I wouldnt be there for the deadline so I couldnt change it.\
I voted rgTS like I said, he had the highest chance of flipping scum to me.
What above the rest of my post? Don't you go lurking again or I will push for your lynch. You have provided nothing this game and I still can't read you. Read some filters, find me a useful quote, do something and I will get off your back.
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On March 05 2012 06:12 Pandain wrote:AKCT is town. I was just seeing how he reacted :<. He was the second most suspicious person I had, so I just decided to pressure him a little. What he did was opposite of mafia. If he was mafia, he would have claimed to have a blue role, not a vanilla townie. Instead, he's been actively offering the right thing to do in his situation(if town): Lynch him, and then lynch me. If he's SK the situation is a little different, but still points to him as town. He's perfectly alright with being lynched( when he CAN'T as SK if he wants to live.) So basically now, in my opinion, AKCT is 100% town. + Show Spoiler + basically im not watcher/tracker unless im pulling epic mindfuck games
You do realise this doesn't work. The ploy tells us nothing about his alignment except that he probably didn't kill RG. Unless he actually did visit rg last night, he would know you are lying. All you've done is waste a day.
##Unvote
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On March 04 2012 14:15 Adam4167 wrote: Since you've claimed blue already, can you tell me if you Tracked AKCT or if you Watched rgTheSchworz? I assume its the latter, but id like to know for sure.
What use does that answer provide to town? The only possible thing I can think of is that he didn't believe Pandain and was using this as a way of getting him to possibly slip up. Pandain had announced his suspicion of AKCT so it makes sense for him to follow him. I don't see why watching RG would necessarily be more likely. As I previously stated it was obvious that RG claims were bogus from a simple read of his filter.
Even if you disregard the above, why ask? I read guilty concience here. Mafia shot RG and wanted to find out if they had been caught. If Pandain claims he tracked AKCT, no harm done. If he claims he watched RG they can counterclaim because they know they were the one's who were shot RG. Thus Pandain was either lying or he knows they are scum. They know that he knows. Thus the only possible way out is to counterclaim as soon as possible with more information.
It is a scummy scummy question.
##vote Adam4167
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On March 05 2012 05:46 sandroba wrote: I got hit last night btw.
This adds more evidence for a SK. Unless there is a really trigger happy Vig. I doubt our vigs (if we have any) would shoot night 1. Mafia shooting (they could have a vig) you makes little to no sense, you were the highest (tied) voted for person on day 1, you were always going to be under suspicion today. I'm not sure what else to draw from this.
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Don't forget attack Palmar, I've done plenty of that as well.
How does any of that make me scum and only scum?
You are assuming Sandroba's guilt from his lack of effort (something BOTH of you were doing) and then inferring my guilt from that.
I never fished for blue roles. Pandain claimed a blue role, I wanted clarification as to which one he was claiming, so I could better assess the situation which we were faced with.
And I am entirely justified in calling you out for doing NOTHING all of day 1 and then insulting the entire town when you are not happy with the result.
None of those things make me scum. Your case is shit.
+ Show Spoiler +On March 05 2012 07:13 Probulous wrote:I leave the thread for a while and this happens! Nice ploy Pandain, I agree AKCT gets town for his response. This I find strange I was very surprised. Rg basically claimed Vanilla Townie or possibly Veteran. Here is something I wrote and was keeping for when his claims became useful. Claims to be able to half sandrobas chance of surviving night -> Vig/SKShow nested quote +On March 01 2012 16:28 rgTheSchworz wrote:On March 01 2012 13:02 sandroba wrote: I'm kinda bore with Lynch all Liars/Lurkers talk. This game we shall try something new: Lynch whoever I tell you to lynch and win. It works wonders. Your chances of surviving another night are now halved,sir. ... Ive randomed a purely awesome role this game. Repeat of above -> Vig/SKShow nested quote +On March 01 2012 21:06 rgTheSchworz wrote: Yeah, and Mr Hydra, I rolled something awesome this game, so I can make Sandro and others pay for their cockiness. Claims not to be SK -> VigShow nested quote +On March 02 2012 03:48 rgTheSchworz wrote: it s probable that we dont have an SK. ... So, Mr SK, we lynch u after all scum have gone,ok? Therefore is either a Vig or a Veteran trying to get shot in a really stupid way (again). The he says Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 19:33 rgTheSchworz wrote: Who said I m a vig? I didnt roll scum, FYI. So just from reading his filter his claims don't make sense. Strange hit for me. I guess I was wrong about his attempts to get shot being stupid but that just says mafia aren't reading filters properly.
This is just spam, Probulous. I was not surprised at all that he flipped townie, nor was I surprised that he was lying all game. You didn't even believe all of his claims, you said as much here:
On March 03 2012 20:42 Probulous wrote: RG stop playing the idiot. No-one believes the 1001 things you have claimed. Going to bed now. Thoughts in the morning. Your post doesn't even make sense, you start by stating that he claimed Vanilla Townie or possibly Veteran, then somehow finish that he's possibly a Vig or Veteran. What was the point of even posting that wall of text? It contributes nothing.
On March 05 2012 07:44 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2012 14:15 Adam4167 wrote: Since you've claimed blue already, can you tell me if you Tracked AKCT or if you Watched rgTheSchworz? I assume its the latter, but id like to know for sure. What use does that answer provide to town? The only possible thing I can think of is that he didn't believe Pandain and was using this as a way of getting him to possibly slip up. Pandain had announced his suspicion of AKCT so it makes sense for him to follow him. I don't see why watching RG would necessarily be more likely. As I previously stated it was obvious that RG claims were bogus from a simple read of his filter. Even if you disregard the above, why ask? I read guilty concience here. Mafia shot RG and wanted to find out if they had been caught. If Pandain claims he tracked AKCT, no harm done. If he claims he watched RG they can counterclaim because they know they were the one's who were shot RG. Thus Pandain was either lying or he knows they are scum. They know that he knows. Thus the only possible way out is to counterclaim as soon as possible with more information. It is a scummy scummy question. ##vote Adam4167
The answer to that question provides nothing to town. It provides information to me. I ask because I wanted to know what Pandain was claiming to get a better grasp on if he was fake-claiming.
"As I previously stated it was obvious that RG claims were bogus from a simple read of his filter", No, you didn't. You finished with the conclusion that he was a Veteran or a Vig.
It is not a scummy question. Why aren't you calling me scum? You're implying it, but you aren't saying it.
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Ok so Sandroba claims vet or saved by medic. Why would Sandroba have been targeted as all last night? I don't think a medic would have been on Sandroba either. Thus that leaves the vet claim. Honestly I think Sandroba is SK that is claiming a fake hit.
On March 05 2012 07:44 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2012 14:15 Adam4167 wrote: Since you've claimed blue already, can you tell me if you Tracked AKCT or if you Watched rgTheSchworz? I assume its the latter, but id like to know for sure. What use does that answer provide to town? The only possible thing I can think of is that he didn't believe Pandain and was using this as a way of getting him to possibly slip up. Pandain had announced his suspicion of AKCT so it makes sense for him to follow him. I don't see why watching RG would necessarily be more likely. As I previously stated it was obvious that RG claims were bogus from a simple read of his filter. Even if you disregard the above, why ask? I read guilty concience here. Mafia shot RG and wanted to find out if they had been caught. If Pandain claims he tracked AKCT, no harm done. If he claims he watched RG they can counterclaim because they know they were the one's who were shot RG. Thus Pandain was either lying or he knows they are scum. They know that he knows. Thus the only possible way out is to counterclaim as soon as possible with more information. It is a scummy scummy question. ##vote Adam4167
Probulous this makes no sense. It is reasonable to wonder what role Pandain might have been. A watcher on rg the first night makes complete sense, since rg was soft claiming vig, whether you believed him or not.
No I gather you are wondering that if maybe mafia hit and roleblocked rg, then Adam's question would show some concern. We have know way of knowing that. Also Adam has been towntelling recently. I don't think he is scum.
On March 05 2012 07:40 deconduo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2012 06:12 Pandain wrote:AKCT is town. I was just seeing how he reacted :<. He was the second most suspicious person I had, so I just decided to pressure him a little. What he did was opposite of mafia. If he was mafia, he would have claimed to have a blue role, not a vanilla townie. Instead, he's been actively offering the right thing to do in his situation(if town): Lynch him, and then lynch me. If he's SK the situation is a little different, but still points to him as town. He's perfectly alright with being lynched( when he CAN'T as SK if he wants to live.) So basically now, in my opinion, AKCT is 100% town. + Show Spoiler + basically im not watcher/tracker unless im pulling epic mindfuck games You do realise this doesn't work. The ploy tells us nothing about his alignment except that he probably didn't kill RG. Unless he actually did visit rg last night, he would know you are lying. All you've done is waste a day. ##Unvote
Deconduo is scum or just bad at this game. Both AKCT and Pandain are definitely more town than before.Mafia would have counter-claimed as a PR not a vanilla townie. AKCT reacted very well to this.
##Vote: Deconduo
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On March 05 2012 08:37 Paperscraps wrote:Ok so Sandroba claims vet or saved by medic. Why would Sandroba have been targeted as all last night? I don't think a medic would have been on Sandroba either. Thus that leaves the vet claim. Honestly I think Sandroba is SK that is claiming a fake hit. Show nested quote +On March 05 2012 07:44 Probulous wrote:On March 04 2012 14:15 Adam4167 wrote: Since you've claimed blue already, can you tell me if you Tracked AKCT or if you Watched rgTheSchworz? I assume its the latter, but id like to know for sure. What use does that answer provide to town? The only possible thing I can think of is that he didn't believe Pandain and was using this as a way of getting him to possibly slip up. Pandain had announced his suspicion of AKCT so it makes sense for him to follow him. I don't see why watching RG would necessarily be more likely. As I previously stated it was obvious that RG claims were bogus from a simple read of his filter. Even if you disregard the above, why ask? I read guilty concience here. Mafia shot RG and wanted to find out if they had been caught. If Pandain claims he tracked AKCT, no harm done. If he claims he watched RG they can counterclaim because they know they were the one's who were shot RG. Thus Pandain was either lying or he knows they are scum. They know that he knows. Thus the only possible way out is to counterclaim as soon as possible with more information. It is a scummy scummy question. ##vote Adam4167 Probulous this makes no sense. It is reasonable to wonder what role Pandain might have been. A watcher on rg the first night makes complete sense, since rg was soft claiming vig, whether you believed him or not. No I gather you are wondering that if maybe mafia hit and roleblocked rg, then Adam's question would show some concern. We have know way of knowing that. Also Adam has been towntelling recently. I don't think he is scum. Show nested quote +On March 05 2012 07:40 deconduo wrote:On March 05 2012 06:12 Pandain wrote:AKCT is town. I was just seeing how he reacted :<. He was the second most suspicious person I had, so I just decided to pressure him a little. What he did was opposite of mafia. If he was mafia, he would have claimed to have a blue role, not a vanilla townie. Instead, he's been actively offering the right thing to do in his situation(if town): Lynch him, and then lynch me. If he's SK the situation is a little different, but still points to him as town. He's perfectly alright with being lynched( when he CAN'T as SK if he wants to live.) So basically now, in my opinion, AKCT is 100% town. + Show Spoiler + basically im not watcher/tracker unless im pulling epic mindfuck games You do realise this doesn't work. The ploy tells us nothing about his alignment except that he probably didn't kill RG. Unless he actually did visit rg last night, he would know you are lying. All you've done is waste a day. ##Unvote Deconduo is scum or just bad at this game. Both AKCT and Pandain are definitely more town than before.Mafia would have counter-claimed as a PR not a vanilla townie. AKCT reacted very well to this. ##Vote: Deconduo
Hi again mister tunnel.
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On March 05 2012 08:30 Adam4167 wrote:This is just spam, Probulous. I was not surprised at all that he flipped townie, nor was I surprised that he was lying all game. You didn't even believe all of his claims, you said as much here: Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 20:42 Probulous wrote: RG stop playing the idiot. No-one believes the 1001 things you have claimed. Going to bed now. Thoughts in the morning.
Well I gues that is a misunderstanding of what you were surprised at, I read it as you were not surprised he was shot.
Your post doesn't even make sense, you start by stating that he claimed Vanilla Townie or possibly Veteran, then somehow finish that he's possibly a Vig or Veteran. What was the point of even posting that wall of text? It contributes nothing.
There was no way he was going to be a vig, he even stated so in the last thing I quoted. His claims made no sense so to me it is surprising he was shot. I read your post as not finding this surprising.
The answer to that question provides nothing to town. It provides information to me. I ask because I wanted to know what Pandain was claiming to get a better grasp on if he was fake-claiming.
How? I don't see how you could know Pandain was fakeclaiming unless you knew shot RG. You also seem to be claiming you are not town but I'll take that as a heat of the moment thing.
"As I previously stated it was obvious that RG claims were bogus from a simple read of his filter", No, you didn't. You finished with the conclusion that he was a Veteran or a Vig.
It is not a scummy question. Why aren't you calling me scum? You're implying it, but you aren't saying it.
My vote makes it clear I think you are scum. If it makes you feel better, here how about this.
Adam4167 is scum.
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On March 05 2012 08:37 Paperscraps wrote: Probulous this makes no sense. It is reasonable to wonder what role Pandain might have been. A watcher on rg the first night makes complete sense, since rg was soft claiming vig, whether you believed him or not.
No I gather you are wondering that if maybe mafia hit and roleblocked rg, then Adam's question would show some concern. We have know way of knowing that. Also Adam has been towntelling recently. I don't think he is scum.
Why would you ask that question? The answer provides nothing to town. So Pandain watched him, what difference does it make? That information is useless to everyone except mafia. The useful information was that AKCT visited RG. I don't know if you just don't understand what I was explaining or whether you just don't believe it. If you need clarification of my point, just ask.
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You have to look at motivations behind peoples night actions. I have to go to work. I will post more later.
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I'll try and make my case simple to understand because what I wrote obviously isn't clear.
If Adam is mafia If Adam is mafia he knows that AKCT didn't shoot RG. When Pandain claims that AKCT visited RG he knows that either Pandain was tracking AKCT or he was watching RG. If Pandain was watching RG then he knows that Pandain is lying. He also knows that Pandain knows who shot RG. Thus the best play is to counterclaim. Now, there is no point claiming until you know that Pandain was watching RG. Hence the question. It solidifies the best play for mafia.
If Adam is town Pandain says AKCT visited RG who died over night. Therefore AKCT is likely to be the shooter. Pandain has already made his suspicion of AKCT clear thus there is no reason to believe he was more likely to watch RG over tracking ACKT. If Pandain had claimed tracker, does that make his claim invalid? The answer to the question provides nothing useful.
I hope this is clear to people.
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You have good reasoning in regards to why he would ask that if he was mafia, but I feel you skip over key details.
There are a multidinous amount of reasons why he might want to ask: 1. If I was watcher, then I would know for certain whether only AKCT visted him. That would mean that indeed, he was scum. However, if I was tracker, then it meant that AKCT might've merely been vigi, medic, tracker, or watcher. 2. If he was watcher/tracker, then he would be able to infer whether I was fake claiming. After all, there was a reason why I left it ambiguous whether I "was" tracker or watcher. If I claimed one, the real one could've counterclaimed and I would've looked super scummy.
At first reading his latest posts I was suspicious of Adam, and inclined to agree with you, but after looking at all his posts I feel he has been playing town like. He's probed people for knoweldge, questioned people when they did weird stuff, pushed people, and contributed overall. I don't feel theres enough evidence to justify a lynching of Adam.
I am still going to push The_Toast. First, please reread all my prior evidence against him. Then note the fact that he ended up voting me TEN MINUTES before the lynch ended. There was NO WAY I was going to get lynched. Heck, he even accused me of trying to start a conspiracy to get Palmar lynched day2.
Besides all the information I've presented to you previously, note the fact that he has not once posted since day1 has ended. He's not remarked on the two deaths, the hit of sandroba, my claim , and he's just preferred to lurk. He's had enough time to post, now its obvious that he merely doesn't want to.
##vote The_Toast
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I noted Toast's crazy voting earlier. I am waiting for his explanation before I vote for him. The fact that he has been away for so long and that he said he was having ISP issues makes me think his absence is not just avoidance.
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I'm here guys, but im at school so can't post most of what I want to post till maybe later.
I'm gonna unvote AKCT for now.
##Unvote: A Killer Cuppa Tea
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On March 05 2012 09:58 Probulous wrote: I noted Toast's crazy voting earlier. I am waiting for his explanation before I vote for him. The fact that he has been away for so long and that he said he was having ISP issues makes me think his absence is not just avoidance.
There's no excuse. And he said he fixed the ISP issue.
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Nope, don't like Adam. You seemed to be setting yourself up for an "i told you so" moment when i flipped town/non-visiting, making you look townier at the end of it - knowledge that you would only have if you knew who really did make the kill, meaning you are either a Blue or Scum. I'm leaning towards the latter.
##Vote Adam4167
I really don't like the gambit @Pandain. If i was a blue role, you would have prolly gone through with the lynch on me, or given scum an easy target. In fact, with the revocation of your claim, the likelihood of you being scum does go up: this gambit could just as easily be a scum one to draw out a potential Blue claim. Not enough to vote you just yet - especially as i had a town read on you beforehand - but i'm certainly gonna be keeping an eye on you.
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On March 05 2012 10:46 A Killer Cuppa Tea wrote: Nope, don't like Adam. You seemed to be setting yourself up for an "i told you so" moment when i flipped town/non-visiting, making you look townier at the end of it - knowledge that you would only have if you knew who really did make the kill, meaning you are either a Blue or Scum. I'm leaning towards the latter.
##Vote Adam4167
I really don't like the gambit @Pandain. If i was a blue role, you would have prolly gone through with the lynch on me, or given scum an easy target. In fact, with the revocation of your claim, the likelihood of you being scum does go up: this gambit could just as easily be a scum one to draw out a potential Blue claim. Not enough to vote you just yet - especially as i had a town read on you beforehand - but i'm certainly gonna be keeping an eye on you.
Your not playing like a blue would, and irregardless the scenario of a blue visiting rg is a very unlikely one. Why would a medic protect a vig/townie. Why would a watcher/tracker visit him when he clearly did nothing. In fact the mafia hit was very weird/bad, but thats besides the point.
If you had claimed blue, by far the more likely explanation is that your actually scum/sk trying to cover up your kill.
And adam never set himself up to gain town cred, I don't know where that's coming from, if you could explain.
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When is day over? 1 hour? or 25 more hours?
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United States5684 Posts
in a little under 25 hours
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♥ Mattchew on the ball
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Last time what happened is that there was no clear town choice. THe ultimate result is that votes were divided, and mafia were content to just split their votes and give town no information later on. They could've even voted each other.......
Town needs to make a stand. We need to lynch a scummy person, or at least pressure them heavily.
The reasons against Adam are tenous. They involve accusations of blue fishing(which he done none), trying to set up for a later town cred (which he did not), and compromise both misinformation and poor reasoning.
If your going to vote Decondou, you might as well look at far more suspicious people such as Jackal, or Palmar, both vets who have done close to none(jackal in particular.) Palmar seems at least somewhat contributory, leading a semi charge on Sandroba, but the fact of the matter is he never really took charge like a vet should.
We have 24 hours to go. We have a day to decide who we lynch. The time is now to lynch the Toast. The time is now to make a stand.
Reference Guide 1. Jackal58-Uncertain- has done nothing to help town. But then again, I don't even know how people started to view him as a vet, as I will always remember him as the guy who never contributed(regardless of alignment), tunneled, and made this post. I would suggest a tracker track him. 2. Paperscraps: Town: Keeps tunneling but no one supports him( LOL.) Makes me believe he's just a misguided town, and mafia hasn't helped him at all. And mafia wouldn't keep pushing the same person again and again and again. SK wouldn't be that active. 3. Bluelightz- scum. Has contributed but hasn't contributed in content. But he keeps posting but alot of it is spam. he's made lists without good reasons, bandwagoned on AKCT when he said he was going to wait. In his list he said Jackal was most suspicious but in the end he voted RG because " he was most likely of being scum. I heavily urge people to view this post . Note how uncertain, and lack of actual accusation, he puts against RG, but then he votes him. Super suspicious. 4. Probulous - town: Contributing greatly, pushing people, making town active. Posts when no one else does and conversation is dying. 5. Snarfs - town. First game I believe, and he's done fine. would like to see a bit more but he contributes, makes good reasoning, and votes for good reasons. 8. Pandain- Town. I honestly feel like this main is the greatest person I've ever met, and he's contributed so much with great reasoning, and made an awesome ploy to figure out AKCT as town. 9. Palmar- Uncertain Claimed Vanillia townie when actutually the role is called townie, but that's less powerful evidence. Has been a dick but that's about it. Posted alot but never any long posts, but he's given reasons. I don't know. 10. Sandroba-Uncertain. He got hit, but I could easily see mafia/sk just aiming for a blue and end up hitting sk/mafia. Hasn't contributed greatly. 11. TheToast-scum, see prior posts 12. Adam4167- town, see prior posts 13. A Killer Cuppa Tea- town, see prior posts. 14. deconduo Mostly Town Has posted alot and given reasons, with long posts. Never has helped try to lead town/accusation, but has posted. Given he's a vet I would expect more but no reason to lynch him.
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In fact I'm changing my mind and voting blue lights #unvote Toast #vote-blue lights
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If your going to vote me atleast spell it right -_-"
I don't care If I get lynched, If Town wants to lynch me fine. Know that the mislynch is on you.
Again no time wil post in like 2 hours maybe.
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On March 05 2012 08:37 Paperscraps wrote: Ok so Sandroba claims vet or saved by medic. Why would Sandroba have been targeted as all last night? I don't think a medic would have been on Sandroba either. Thus that leaves the vet claim. Honestly I think Sandroba is SK that is claiming a fake hit.
Theres an option 3 here. Sandroba is an SK that is claiming a real hit (from the mafia):
On February 25 2012 12:25 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Serial Killer: You are a Serial Killer! Each night, starting night 1, you may send in a night hit. In addition, you have one extra night life.
On March 05 2012 10:46 A Killer Cuppa Tea wrote: Nope, don't like Adam. You seemed to be setting yourself up for an "i told you so" moment when i flipped town/non-visiting, making you look townier at the end of it - knowledge that you would only have if you knew who really did make the kill, meaning you are either a Blue or Scum. I'm leaning towards the latter.
##Vote Adam4167
AKCT: I don't even understand how the hell you are getting that from:
On March 04 2012 14:15 Adam4167 wrote: Well well, isn't that interesting.
Since you've claimed blue already, can you tell me if you Tracked AKCT or if you Watched rgTheSchworz? I assume its the latter, but id like to know for sure. Please elaborate and make yourself more clear.
On March 05 2012 12:35 Bluelightz wrote:If your going to vote me atleast spell it right -_-"
I don't care If I get lynched, If Town wants to lynch me fine. Know that the mislynch is on you. Again no time wil post in like 2 hours maybe. Bluelightz, why are you giving up so easily after one vote? Compared to your play in Normal Mini Mafia I, where you had 4 votes piled on you the first day and you tried to defend yourself.
Do you feel guilty again, like in Student Mafia?
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No, I don't feel guilty, I was just saying that if I get mislynched blaime will be on Pandain.
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On March 05 2012 13:23 Adam4167 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2012 08:37 Paperscraps wrote: Ok so Sandroba claims vet or saved by medic. Why would Sandroba have been targeted as all last night? I don't think a medic would have been on Sandroba either. Thus that leaves the vet claim. Honestly I think Sandroba is SK that is claiming a fake hit.
Theres an option 3 here. Sandroba is an SK that is claiming a real hit (from the mafia): Show nested quote +On February 25 2012 12:25 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Serial Killer: You are a Serial Killer! Each night, starting night 1, you may send in a night hit. In addition, you have one extra night life.
I thought of this but this quote makes me less certain.
On March 03 2012 17:12 sandroba wrote: Wait for me to kill bitches b4 you shoot me thx
If he was SK he wouldn't be worried about getting shot. We haven't had a vig claim the shot so it could only have come from mafia which makes zero sense. Why target someone who was the leading vote getter the day before? No I think he was a saved by a medic. I agree with Paperscraps that a town medic saving Sandroba is just not credible. So we are left with veteran or mafia medic. He was under pressure and was worried about dying so a mafia medic protect makes sense. His way of claiming the shot doesn't ring Vet to me. Vets normally celebrate when they are shot.
Finally you can credit Pandain with redeeming you. His explanation of your question made me read your filter again and aside from that question, the rest could be town. Hence
##unvote
Bluelightz, I repeat my earlier warning, provide something useful or I will push for your lynch.
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On March 05 2012 13:47 Bluelightz wrote: No, I don't feel guilty, I was just saying that if I get mislynched blaime will be on Pandain.
Ok that's it
##vote Bluelightz
You are around enough to post but not enough to provide content. Not a single little tiny little morsel of usefullness. I outlined in my previous post what you had to do and that was yesterday. Since then all you have done is provide excuses. You have been here all day, you have posted regularly but you haven't even bothered to point out anything about anyone. Today you swing.
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On March 05 2012 13:47 Probulous wrote:I thought of this but this quote makes me less certain. Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 17:12 sandroba wrote: Wait for me to kill bitches b4 you shoot me thx If he was SK he wouldn't be worried about getting shot. We haven't had a vig claim the shot so it could only have come from mafia which makes zero sense. Why target someone who was the leading vote getter the day before? No I think he was a saved by a medic. I agree with Paperscraps that a town medic saving Sandroba is just not credible. So we are left with veteran or mafia medic. He was under pressure and was worried about dying so a mafia medic protect makes sense. His way of claiming the shot doesn't ring Vet to me. Vets normally celebrate when they are shot.
I am not making a habit of quoting myself I just realised I completely missed one possibility. The one that Paperscraps was saying
Sandroba could be an SK claiming a fake shot. I don't know that an SK would give up the possibility to shoot for the credit that comes with claiming the hit. Especially that he didn't staight up claim veteran. I still think it more likely that he got hit and saved by a medic. I just can't tell whether it was a town or mafia medic.
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Probulous just to help your mind out, Why would a MAFIA medic protect TOWN????
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On February 25 2012 12:25 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Possible Mafia Roles: Medic: You are a Medic! Each night you may choose to protect one player from a night hit! You may not protect yourself. You will be notified if you successfully protect your target.
Read the OP.
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Palmar, Decon, Jackal, Snarfs, Toast, sandroba all disappeared. Come on guys we can't play this by ourselves.
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Sorry about that Prob, I've been rereading the thread for the last while and before that was doing some work.
Now I'm about to go to bed, but I did come across something interesting in my reread. Maybe it's something for you guys to discuss.
Before rgTS was killed, he was one of the only people pushing a vote on Pandain. Then, afterwards, Pandain causes a bunch of drama that, while throwing the spotlight on himself, also provides the perfect timing for him to say something along the lines of: "There's no way I could do this as mafia. Not a single way." Then, he goes back to pushing a lynch on TheToast, who was another person to push for him. When he fails to garner support for that, he switches to Bluelightz, an easy target because he hasn't posted very much... but maybe that's just what Bluelightz does... he is a hard read as several people have mentioned before.
Take this as you will. I know I need to sleep on it and have a look again in the morning before casting my vote.
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On March 05 2012 08:41 deconduo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2012 08:37 Paperscraps wrote:Ok so Sandroba claims vet or saved by medic. Why would Sandroba have been targeted as all last night? I don't think a medic would have been on Sandroba either. Thus that leaves the vet claim. Honestly I think Sandroba is SK that is claiming a fake hit. On March 05 2012 07:44 Probulous wrote:On March 04 2012 14:15 Adam4167 wrote: Since you've claimed blue already, can you tell me if you Tracked AKCT or if you Watched rgTheSchworz? I assume its the latter, but id like to know for sure. What use does that answer provide to town? The only possible thing I can think of is that he didn't believe Pandain and was using this as a way of getting him to possibly slip up. Pandain had announced his suspicion of AKCT so it makes sense for him to follow him. I don't see why watching RG would necessarily be more likely. As I previously stated it was obvious that RG claims were bogus from a simple read of his filter. Even if you disregard the above, why ask? I read guilty concience here. Mafia shot RG and wanted to find out if they had been caught. If Pandain claims he tracked AKCT, no harm done. If he claims he watched RG they can counterclaim because they know they were the one's who were shot RG. Thus Pandain was either lying or he knows they are scum. They know that he knows. Thus the only possible way out is to counterclaim as soon as possible with more information. It is a scummy scummy question. ##vote Adam4167 Probulous this makes no sense. It is reasonable to wonder what role Pandain might have been. A watcher on rg the first night makes complete sense, since rg was soft claiming vig, whether you believed him or not. No I gather you are wondering that if maybe mafia hit and roleblocked rg, then Adam's question would show some concern. We have know way of knowing that. Also Adam has been towntelling recently. I don't think he is scum. On March 05 2012 07:40 deconduo wrote:On March 05 2012 06:12 Pandain wrote:AKCT is town. I was just seeing how he reacted :<. He was the second most suspicious person I had, so I just decided to pressure him a little. What he did was opposite of mafia. If he was mafia, he would have claimed to have a blue role, not a vanilla townie. Instead, he's been actively offering the right thing to do in his situation(if town): Lynch him, and then lynch me. If he's SK the situation is a little different, but still points to him as town. He's perfectly alright with being lynched( when he CAN'T as SK if he wants to live.) So basically now, in my opinion, AKCT is 100% town. + Show Spoiler + basically im not watcher/tracker unless im pulling epic mindfuck games You do realise this doesn't work. The ploy tells us nothing about his alignment except that he probably didn't kill RG. Unless he actually did visit rg last night, he would know you are lying. All you've done is waste a day. ##Unvote Deconduo is scum or just bad at this game. Both AKCT and Pandain are definitely more town than before.Mafia would have counter-claimed as a PR not a vanilla townie. AKCT reacted very well to this. ##Vote: Deconduo Hi again mister tunnel.
Riveting defense. Would read again.
Care to start scum hunting? or push a lynch? anything?
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After reading Bluelightz filter, I am not sure what to really think haha. I just played with him in Werewolves Mafia and he was hard to read as well. He always seems to sheep and is easily swayed to vote one way or another. If I were to read him purely based from meta, I would say he is town. He has played pretty similar to the last game I was in with him. I think there are better lynches today.
Deconduo, TheToast, and Jackal are all better lynches. I don't know if we should lynch Sandroba yet, due to the hit claim. Sandroba is on ice though and needs to start contributing as do a lot of other players.
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On March 05 2012 13:47 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2012 13:23 Adam4167 wrote:On March 05 2012 08:37 Paperscraps wrote: Ok so Sandroba claims vet or saved by medic. Why would Sandroba have been targeted as all last night? I don't think a medic would have been on Sandroba either. Thus that leaves the vet claim. Honestly I think Sandroba is SK that is claiming a fake hit.
Theres an option 3 here. Sandroba is an SK that is claiming a real hit (from the mafia): On February 25 2012 12:25 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Serial Killer: You are a Serial Killer! Each night, starting night 1, you may send in a night hit. In addition, you have one extra night life.
I thought of this but this quote makes me less certain. Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 17:12 sandroba wrote: Wait for me to kill bitches b4 you shoot me thx If he was SK he wouldn't be worried about getting shot. We haven't had a vig claim the shot so it could only have come from mafia which makes zero sense. Why target someone who was the leading vote getter the day before? No I think he was a saved by a medic. I agree with Paperscraps that a town medic saving Sandroba is just not credible. So we are left with veteran or mafia medic. He was under pressure and was worried about dying so a mafia medic protect makes sense. His way of claiming the shot doesn't ring Vet to me. Vets normally celebrate when they are shot.
Why would he be worried about getting shot if he knew he had a medic to save him? In fact, I think SK is far far more likely as they would have the most to lose by getting shot; losing their night life. A mafia with a medic to back them up is basically immune to night hits, so shouldn't be worried at all.
##Vote Sandroba
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Iceland22590 Posts
yeah I'm still fine with killing sandroba.
Pandain is dumb, but he's probably town. Doesn't say anything about AKCT's alignment really. But hey who cares.
##Vote Sandroba
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Current Vote Count:
Bluelightz - 2 Pandain Probulous
Sandroba - 2 deconduo Palmar
Deconduo - 1 Paperscraps
Adam4167 - 1
Probulous A Killer Cuppa Tea
A Killer Cuppa Tea - 1
Palmar
Bluelightz
deconduo
Snarfs sandroba
TheToast - 0
Pandain
Pandain - 0
A Killer Cuppa Tea
If there is a mistake, please let me know. Voting ends in 12 hours. If you are not currently voting, please remember to do so before the deadline.
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Iceland22590 Posts
let's kill sandroba people, it's the right thing to do.
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Alright, I'm voting sandroba, I believe his scum because he is useless and has not provided good content, his hit claim is interesting though.
##Vote: sandroba
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On March 06 2012 00:03 Palmar wrote: let's kill sandroba people, it's the right thing to do. Do you think Sand is scum or SK?
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Iceland22590 Posts
how the fuck would I know jackal?
What I'm pretty certain of is that he's not town.
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I'm busy as fuck right now and I'm already working towards being replaced. I'm veteran. I got shot last night. That's all the info I have good luck.
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Okay people, sorry for being inactive. I started a game of Civ V Friday night and when I looked up again it was Sunday afternoon
On March 04 2012 07:49 Probulous wrote: TheToast You deliberately chose to vote for someone who was not going to be lynched. Your vote was at 11:50 and you voted for Pandain who had two votes at the time. It was obvious that only Sandroba or Misder were possible candidates because everyone had already placed their votes. Yours was last. You effectively chose Misder over Sandroba without saying so. Explain.
How do you know that he wasn't going to be lynched? 10 minutes is more than enough time for two people to change their votes; I've seen it happen before. I wasn't the only one with my vote on Pandain, RG did as well; I think (and still think) there was more than enough reason to vote him for lynch. I also posted my analysis of Pandain, it's not like I just dropped a vote and left. I would have done it sooner but I had IRL stuff that was in the way. Fact is I didn't have a good read on Misder and I was at the time pretty sure Sandro was the SK. I think Pandain was the better day 1 lynch.
As far as Bluelightz goes; lynching him is tricky business. Based on the game I played with him and the past games of his that I've looked through, he is such a bad town player that he is impossible to get a decent read off of. In NMM 1 I was pretty convinced through most of the game he was mafia just because his posting was so random and contained so much fluff. Turns out he was town, but I honestly think we would have been better off lynching him early on to eliminate him as a suspect and stop him from muddying the waters (which I believe I used as an argument for his lynching in that game). If the votes are there at the end of the day, I'll support his lynch but I seriously think he could flip either way.
Sandro; well it looks like I may have been wrong about the SK thing. If this game had an SK we should have seen two killed last night, though I suppose it's possible that the SK and scum both tried to kill RG? I suppose there's a decent chance of that given the fact that RG basically claimed blue. Fact is though that Sandro's posting has been and continues to be strange and pointless as well as very irregular. While there's a chance he could still be the SK, he's leaning scum in my mind. I don't know what to make about the alleged hit, I would think if he was a vet he wouldn't have been so lurky day 1. I would be interested to see what his response to the arguments against him; if it isn't good I'd say he would make a good Day 2 lynch.
Pandain; still tunneling me, still scummy IMO. I don't know why no one else has called him out about the fake blue claim. He claims watcher, get's half the town bandwagoning against AKCT, then after AKCT's response looks completely townish Pandain backs off and claims he was lying about the blue claim. Is that suppose to make me believe Pandain is town? Why was it even necessary to test AKCT?? There was one vote against him Day1, obviously most of town already decided that AKCT was town or at least leaning-town, why waste a fake claim testing him? Why not test one of the other people who are more scum leaning like sandro or Bluelightz? Pandain seems to be convinced I'm scum, why didn't he test me with the fake claim??? This makes no sense at all. The only way it makes sense is in the context that Pandain is scum. AKCT is a newbie who's been reletively quiet this game and hasn't really been aggressive at all. I think Pandain knew he could count on AKCT looking townish when accused. Then Pandain gets to call off the bandwagon and declairs that AKCT is town (seems like everyone else figured that out already without the rediculous theatrics...).
Sorry, but this seems to me like an attempt to frame himself as town, nothing more. Pandain is a vet player, I can see him trying something like this. IMO this whole fake claim changes nothing, Pandain is just as suspicious as before. I'm putting my vote right back on him for Day 2. If the majority isn't there by the end of day 2, I'll consider moving my vote; but right now he is the best candidate IMO for this and the other stuff I've previously posted.
##Vote: Pandain
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On March 05 2012 11:00 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2012 10:46 A Killer Cuppa Tea wrote: Nope, don't like Adam. You seemed to be setting yourself up for an "i told you so" moment when i flipped town/non-visiting, making you look townier at the end of it - knowledge that you would only have if you knew who really did make the kill, meaning you are either a Blue or Scum. I'm leaning towards the latter.
##Vote Adam4167
I really don't like the gambit @Pandain. If i was a blue role, you would have prolly gone through with the lynch on me, or given scum an easy target. In fact, with the revocation of your claim, the likelihood of you being scum does go up: this gambit could just as easily be a scum one to draw out a potential Blue claim. Not enough to vote you just yet - especially as i had a town read on you beforehand - but i'm certainly gonna be keeping an eye on you. Your not playing like a blue would, and irregardless the scenario of a blue visiting rg is a very unlikely one. Why would a medic protect a vig/townie. Why would a watcher/tracker visit him when he clearly did nothing. In fact the mafia hit was very weird/bad, but thats besides the point. If you had claimed blue, by far the more likely explanation is that your actually scum/sk trying to cover up your kill. And adam never set himself up to gain town cred, I don't know where that's coming from, if you could explain.
I play blue very much like i play mafia, to be fair. To avoid the NK. It usually gets me lynched instead.
As for Adam, its less him trying to gain towncred, more that he seemed to be avoiding my wagon. If i did flip town, he could be all like "Meh, i didnt like that wagon, see, you should trust me reads" or whatever. Its a subtle tactic that can work if done right.
Added to the fact that he's been rolefishing a little, and his seeming avoidance of other lynches for, perhaps, similar reasons, i see him as a mafia who doesnt want to be seen as overeager for a mislynch, and is overcompensating and doing the opposite instead.
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Iceland22590 Posts
That's a dumb vote Toast. While Pandain's gambit was hilariously bad, I'd still bet on this being a town-pandain idea rather than scum Pandain.
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On March 06 2012 02:59 Palmar wrote: That's a dumb vote Toast. While Pandain's gambit was hilariously bad, I'd still bet on this being a town-pandain idea rather than scum Pandain.
If it was a town idea, why focus on AKCT? That's the part that has me suspicious, he's been tunneling me all game long then decides to use a fake claim to test AKCT? Why not use it on Bluelightz if he's suspicious of him? It just doesn't make any sense.
In all honesty, the whole fake claim isn't any kind of proof that Pandain is scum. But when taken into account with all the other scummy stuff he's done this game; I think there is a good case for Pandain being mafia. Paperscraps made a good point too, about Pandain tunneling me the whole game then switching to Bluelightz halfway through day 2 is strange too.
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Iceland22590 Posts
can we kill sandroba today? I don't mind then killing pandain later for bad.
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##Vote Sandroba
I don't have enough of a read on Pandain yet, but he's on my watch list. He's saying some weird things. Ordering blues around... Making false claims then claiming he's not mafia before anyone accuses him of it... On the other hand, he's contributing a lot and certainly isn't afraid to throw himself in the spotlight.
Then there's Sandroba. Either Sandroba is a townie who doesn't care about winning, or he's not a townie. Either way he deserves at least to be lynched. On the plus side, if he does turn out to be a Vet, at least he did his job before going out.
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On March 06 2012 04:26 Palmar wrote: can we kill sandroba today? I don't mind then killing pandain later for bad.
.... for bad what?
Frankly I think there is a better case against Pandain. Sandro said a few pages back that he was requesting a replacement, so idk if he's got IRL stuff that's causing him to be lurky. I have to say though the posts he has made so far have been kind of strange and out of place. I want to see if he has any response to the accusations, the vet claim is interesting and could explain some of his posts but he needs to give us some reason to believe this. In all, I think he is a good lynch candidate, but Pandain is better IMO.
Palmar, seriously, who writes this:
On March 05 2012 06:29 Pandain wrote: Also I know this is going to come up so to get it out of the way:
1. There is NO reason I would do this if mafia. Think of one. Please. Tell me.
He does some stupid blue fake claim then tells everyone that this means he can't possibly be mafia. Seriously wtf is this?
When have you ever seen a town player do this?
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On March 06 2012 01:06 sandroba wrote: I'm busy as fuck right now and I'm already working towards being replaced. I'm veteran. I got shot last night. That's all the info I have good luck.
If you aren't even going to try, then you are going to get lynched.
##Unvote
##Vote Sandroba
Side note: TheToast is scum.
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On March 06 2012 05:02 Paperscraps wrote:
Side note: TheToast is scum.
Would you like to explain that or are you just going to sling unsupported accusations at me?
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Slinging unsupported accusations is what I do! Have you been playing this game?
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On March 06 2012 05:27 Paperscraps wrote: Have you been playing this game?
Idk have I? Maybe I just imagined it? O.O
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On March 06 2012 01:14 TheToast wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2012 07:49 Probulous wrote: TheToast You deliberately chose to vote for someone who was not going to be lynched. Your vote was at 11:50 and you voted for Pandain who had two votes at the time. It was obvious that only Sandroba or Misder were possible candidates because everyone had already placed their votes. Yours was last. You effectively chose Misder over Sandroba without saying so. Explain.
How do you know that he wasn't going to be lynched? 10 minutes is more than enough time for two people to change their votes; I've seen it happen before. I wasn't the only one with my vote on Pandain, RG did as well; I think (and still think) there was more than enough reason to vote him for lynch. I also posted my analysis of Pandain, it's not like I just dropped a vote and left. I would have done it sooner but I had IRL stuff that was in the way. Fact is I didn't have a good read on Misder and I was at the time pretty sure Sandro was the SK. I think Pandain was the better day 1 lynch.
This is not an explanation. Like you said there was 10 minutes left. So you drop a vote on someone who was neither first or second on the list. When you made that vote you were effectively choosing Misder. If there was only 10 minutes left, why did you leave it there? You say "it's not like I just dropped a vote and left" but either you did leave the thread immediately, or you chose to keep your vote on someone who was clearly not getting lynched. The fact that you say "I was at the time pretty sure Sandro was the SK" and he was second in votes yet you didn't vote for him is damning in my eyes.
Updated scum list Sandroba TheToast Bluelightz
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On March 06 2012 06:42 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2012 01:14 TheToast wrote:On March 04 2012 07:49 Probulous wrote: TheToast You deliberately chose to vote for someone who was not going to be lynched. Your vote was at 11:50 and you voted for Pandain who had two votes at the time. It was obvious that only Sandroba or Misder were possible candidates because everyone had already placed their votes. Yours was last. You effectively chose Misder over Sandroba without saying so. Explain.
How do you know that he wasn't going to be lynched? 10 minutes is more than enough time for two people to change their votes; I've seen it happen before. I wasn't the only one with my vote on Pandain, RG did as well; I think (and still think) there was more than enough reason to vote him for lynch. I also posted my analysis of Pandain, it's not like I just dropped a vote and left. I would have done it sooner but I had IRL stuff that was in the way. Fact is I didn't have a good read on Misder and I was at the time pretty sure Sandro was the SK. I think Pandain was the better day 1 lynch. This is not an explanation. Like you said there was 10 minutes left. So you drop a vote on someone who was neither first or second on the list. When you made that vote you were effectively choosing Misder. If there was only 10 minutes left, why did you leave it there? You say "it's not like I just dropped a vote and left" but either you did leave the thread immediately, or you chose to keep your vote on someone who was clearly not getting lynched. The fact that you say "I was at the time pretty sure Sandro was the SK" and he was second in votes yet you didn't vote for him is damning in my eyes. Updated scum list Sandroba TheToast Bluelightz
So everyone who didn't have their votes on Misder or Sandro are auto-scum? I didn't think either of the top lynch candidates were scum, so who was I suppose to vote for? SK is going to go after scum first, so even if I was right abou that it wouldn't have been as helpful as killing scum Day 1. Pandain was the best candidate, that's who I voted for.
I don't know why you're trying to pin this on me. I'm not one of the idiots that jumped on the lynch Misder bandwagon. I put my vote on scum; I'm not responsible for what the rest of you did Day1. I didn't "effectively" choose Misder, he was lynched by the three idiots who hopped on the bandwagon.
What's your argument here Probulous? Would I look less scummy in your eyes if I had voted to lynch a townie? Pandain is scum, that's who I voted to lynch.
I wasn't the only vote on Pandain, RG had his vote on him too. Why is that? Maybe it's because Pandain looks scummy as all hell? That was two votes on Pandain, only two people would have needed to switch to make the lynch. Same exact fucking situation for Palmar. Paperscraps & Adam4167 were both on Palmar, and Adam4167 posted less than two hours before the deadline. Why didn't he switch his vote, after all Palmar had no chance of getting lynched? Maybe it was because Adam had reason to believe Palmar was scummy.
Probulous the logic you are using is what allows scum to start the lynch bandwagons like they used against Misder. This idea that everyone has to vote one or two candidates is exactly what Mafia loves as it allows them to railroad town into picking between two townies. It's up to town to vote for who they think is scum, not who they think have the best chance of getting lynched. News flash, townies ALWAYS have the best chance of getting lynched.
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I try and make this brief
- You didn't think Misder was scum
- You thought sandroba was SK
- Both had the same number of votes but Misder reached there first.
- You voted Pandain.
- Misder gets lynched.
You were around when the lynch went down, you could see that no-one was switching. Pushing for a Pandain lynch is fine but you cannot deny that you chose not to lynch the SK. Now you say that the SK would be working for town. That's a big assumption. How do you know he shoots straight?
More importantly you chose to let someone you didn't think was scum die just so you could vote for Pandain.
Either you did drop your vote and leave in which case you have lied to us, OR you watched Misder get lynched (someone you thought was town) and chose to keep the SK alive.
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On March 06 2012 02:59 Palmar wrote: That's a dumb vote Toast. While Pandain's gambit was hilariously bad, I'd still bet on this being a town-pandain idea rather than scum Pandain. . No your just either a dick/stupid. I effectively confirmed (90%) AKCT as town, generated discussion when there wAs none, managed to see how people reacted to the claim, all In the course of 12 hours. Which is Alot more then anyone did/would've done. Your just blind to any idea which you didn't do.
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On March 06 2012 07:07 Probulous wrote:I try and make this brief - You didn't think Misder was scum
- You thought sandroba was SK
- Both had the same number of votes but Misder reached there first.
- You voted Pandain.
- Misder gets lynched.
You were around when the lynch went down, you could see that no-one was switching. Pushing for a Pandain lynch is fine but you cannot deny that you chose not to lynch the SK. Now you say that the SK would be working for town. That's a big assumption. How do you know he shoots straight? More importantly you chose to let someone you didn't think was scum die just so you could vote for Pandain. Either you did drop your vote and leave in which case you have lied to us, OR you watched Misder get lynched (someone you thought was town) and chose to keep the SK alive.
I don't think it's an assumption at all. Allow me to quote something the late RG wrote:
On March 02 2012 03:48 rgTheSchworz wrote: it s probable that we dont have an SK. Either way, he is town at first, cause Mafia are his enemies. He doesnt want to end up alone Vs scum, cuz scum know who s scum and can find him pretty easily. So, Mr SK, we lynch u after all scum have gone,ok?
RG's point was really good. If SK takes out town first, SK looses the game. Simple as that. Early on SK is essentially an extra vig for town. Makes no sense to kill them when there is a practically confirmed scum player.
And I didn't LET anyone die. You all were quite capable of changing your votes. Stop trying to stick the Misder lynch on me. I didn't hop on the bandwagon, I didn't vote for him. I would have posted my analysis against Pandain earlier but I was seriously having IRL interet issues. If that makes me scum, then whatever, there's nothing I can do to confirm myself as town then apparently.
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It's simple Toast, you had choice to keep your vote on Pandain and watch a townie die, or put your vote on Sandroba and watch a SK die. I have pushed the others who voted on different targets and most (beside Blue) have given decent reasoning. Whilst the people who voted Misder could be scum they could also be town who believed they were voting for mafia.
Now you say that the SK would shoot mafia. That much is obvious. I go back to my previous point. He doesn't know who mafia are (he could shoot town) and we have to kill him before the end of the game. Obviously it is better to lynch mafia over the SK, but it is better to lynch the SK over town.
You can't dodge your responsibility here. As far as I can tell from the posts around that time the only two people posting were you and Snarfs. Snarfs voted for Sandroba which tied the votes and then you voted for Pandain. You never even addressed Snarfs. You posted 10 minutes before the deadline and then sat back and watched nothing change.
As for proving you're town, a defense that I might have accepted would have been that you misread the voting rules and thought a no-lynch was going to happen. Or even if you could point to somewhere in your filter where you say that both Misder and Sandroba are town (that's what Adam did). Instead you say you think Sandroba is the SK but you didn't nail him to the wall. Instead you watched Misder swing and you could have done something about it.
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There's no reason to vote sandroba, he's not scum(no resistance at all)so that leaves either sk or town. Rather than vote him, we should merely track him. This will effectively negate any chance of him shooting again. I do believe he's sk but feel this is A better alternative as it encompasses all the reasons we would want to lynch sk without the risk of lynching town. We should use today instead as an opportunity to lynch scum.
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I'm up for lynching either bluelightz or toast
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On March 06 2012 07:43 Pandain wrote: There's no reason to vote sandroba, he's not scum(no resistance at all)so that leaves either sk or town. Rather than vote him, we should merely track him. This will effectively negate any chance of him shooting again. I do believe he's sk but feel this is A better alternative as it encompasses all the reasons we would want to lynch sk without the risk of lynching town. We should use today instead as an opportunity to lynch scum.
I agree that he isn't scum, but he's almost certainly SK. We're better off lynching him now, rather than letting him get another shot off.
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On March 06 2012 07:43 Probulous wrote: Now you say that the SK would shoot mafia. That much is obvious. I go back to my previous point. He doesn't know who mafia are (he could shoot town) and we have to kill him before the end of the game. Obviously it is better to lynch mafia over the SK, but it is better to lynch the SK over town.
Probulous, by your logic vig's should all be lynched day 1 too. Because that's exactly what the SK is, an extra town vig. I've given my reasons for what I did and honestly, you aren't the mayor here so I don't have to defend myself to you anymore that I have already. Pandain is scum. I wanted to lynch him. That's all there was to it.
As for proving you're town, a defense that I might have accepted would have been that you misread the voting rules and thought a no-lynch was going to happen. Or even if you could point to somewhere in your filter where you say that both Misder and Sandroba are town (that's what Adam did).
What is this? Fine, next time I'll lie to you and tell you what you want to hear. lol Also Sandroba is not town, that much is pretty obvious.
On March 06 2012 07:43 Pandain wrote: There's no reason to vote sandroba, he's not scum(no resistance at all)so that leaves either sk or town. Rather than vote him, we should merely track him. This will effectively negate any chance of him shooting again. I do believe he's sk but feel this is A better alternative as it encompasses all the reasons we would want to lynch sk without the risk of lynching town. We should use today instead as an opportunity to lynch scum.
I would have agreed with you before Day 2. See the thing is, SK has 1kp per night. So where is the second night 2 hit? Sandro so far is the only one to have claimed vet and says he took the hit. Are we to assume he shot himself? I suppose there's a chance that both the SK and mafia hit RG, but that doesn't seem terribly likely.
This set off alarm bells for me. I took a look at your filter Pandain, what's interesting is that this is the first time you've really discussed Sandro at all. And to come out arguing that he could possibly be town? Really? Sandro is not town this game. He's been lurky and posting weird pointless short fluff. I don't understand where you are getting this from.
I'm leaving work now, so I'll be posting a bit more detailed explanation of my thoughts in a bit. But after this, my leading scum suspects are Pandain and now Sandroba.
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On March 06 2012 07:43 Pandain wrote: There's no reason to vote sandroba, he's not scum(no resistance at all)so that leaves either sk or town. Rather than vote him, we should merely track him. This will effectively negate any chance of him shooting again. I do believe he's sk but feel this is A better alternative as it encompasses all the reasons we would want to lynch sk without the risk of lynching town. We should use today instead as an opportunity to lynch scum.
I don't know why you say there is no resistance to him being lynched. Toast is screaming blue murder that you are scum. If my team is correct then blue is soft-bussing which is unsurprising. The way I see it these are the possible explanations for Sandroba "hit"
Fake Claim- He is trying to gain cred by faking a claimed hit.
- Serial Killer / Mafia - Helps him avoid suspicion Day 2
- Town - Clears his name to some extent
The implications of this are that there may not be a SK. The problem with the fake claim is that the benefit for him is minimal. The way he claimed makes him look less like a veteran than someone who got medic saved and no town medic would save him. I believe he was shot.
Real Claim- He survived a hit and claimed it
- Serial Killer - Knows someone has hit him and wants to flush that person out.
- Mafia - Knows that someone has hit him and will claim the hit if they are a vigilante. The vig gets town cred and he looks bad for not claiming the hit so he does it first. The claim also might flush out the shooter. The SK could act like a vig too so either way he had to claim.
- Veteran - He has been shot and can excuse his crappy play as an attempt to get shot.
The issue I have with the veteran claim is the manner in which he claimed it. Most vets celebrate when they get shot, they have achieved their aim. His was a BTW sort of admission. Combined with his lurky play I don't believe his vet claim. That leaves SK or mafia. I don't agree with Pandain that he isn't being defended. Toast is pretty vehement that Pandain is scum. Chainsaw much?
A Sandroba lynch will confirm the existence of a Serial Killer if he flips Veteran (unlikely). If he flips scum we celebrate and we know they have a medic. If he flips SK we have removed a potential issue for town. He isn't playing well and I would guess would probably shoot town before he shoots scum.
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On March 06 2012 07:52 deconduo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2012 07:43 Pandain wrote: There's no reason to vote sandroba, he's not scum(no resistance at all)so that leaves either sk or town. Rather than vote him, we should merely track him. This will effectively negate any chance of him shooting again. I do believe he's sk but feel this is A better alternative as it encompasses all the reasons we would want to lynch sk without the risk of lynching town. We should use today instead as an opportunity to lynch scum. I agree that he isn't scum, but he's almost certainly SK. We're better off lynching him now, rather than letting him get another shot off.
That's the beauty behind this plan. You see, by having the tracker track him continously, we effectively negate any chance of him shooting anyone(because he would get caught.) In fact, it doesn't even matter if we have a tracker or not, the mere threat of being revealed(and he's alone so if he gets caught he loses), forces him to not shoot.
The point I'm trying to make by saying we should lynch someone else, is that if we lynch sandroba we will have no more information, and no more reads on anyone(unless he flips town.) We all are 90-95% sure he's SK, the point is that he's now effectively out of the game and useless to us. Right now we should be focusing on lynching scum so we can have a chance to lynch scum and KEEP lynching scum, rather then wasting a day on someone who can't even hurt town(can't shoot.).
If there's a flaw please tell me, but as of now I see no good reason to waste today on him when we could critically decide between blue lightz and toast.
I would have agreed with you before Day 2. See the thing is, SK has 1kp per night. So where is the second night 2 hit? Sandro so far is the only one to have claimed vet and says he took the hit. Are we to assume he shot himself? I suppose there's a chance that both the SK and mafia hit RG, but that doesn't seem terribly likely.
What? I don't get it. Theres a possibility that he's a vet and someone else is a SK. its not a good one but again, the point is that we not waste a lynch if we can force him to not shoot.
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And toast is negligient, he merely is focused on me because I've been focused on him. He's been on me since day 1, and he hasn't supported Sandroba. There is effectively no support for Sandroba. But again, this only indicates he's not scum, as they wouldn't just let him(and he wouldn't be so lethargic about getting lynched), die when theres a valid excuse.
But I'm not even denying that Sandroba is probably scum. The key fact is that by lynching him we effectively waste a day to either confirm what we already assumed(he's SK), or the fact that he's a vet(in which case we just lynched a town woopdie doo). If we make him unable to shoot for fear of getting caught, then we don't even have to worry about him harming town.
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On March 06 2012 08:01 TheToast wrote: Probulous, by your logic vig's should all be lynched day 1 too. Because that's exactly what the SK is, an extra town vig. I've given my reasons for what I did and honestly, you aren't the mayor here so I don't have to defend myself to you anymore that I have already. Pandain is scum. I wanted to lynch him. That's all there was to it.
A vig that shoots repeatedly and wins when town dies is not the same as a normal vig. You can't deny that the existence of a SK is a danger to town. It means there is more KP around that needs town to die to win. Like I said, it makes sense for an SK to go after mafia but ultimately he has to go after town as well. So as town we lynch Mafia>SK>Town.
Show nested quote + As for proving you're town, a defense that I might have accepted would have been that you misread the voting rules and thought a no-lynch was going to happen. Or even if you could point to somewhere in your filter where you say that both Misder and Sandroba are town (that's what Adam did).
What is this? Fine, next time I'll lie to you and tell you what you want to hear. lol Also Sandroba is not town, that much is pretty obvious. No you don't lie. All I was saying is that there non-summy reasons for doing what you did, but they aren't the reasons you had. Your actions could have come from town but your reasoning confirms you as scum. Anyway I am voting for sandroba today as his lynch gives me more information than yours and is more likely to succeed. But you will be on my lynch list tomorrow.
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On March 06 2012 08:19 Pandain wrote: And toast is negligient, he merely is focused on me because I've been focused on him. He's been on me since day 1, and he hasn't supported Sandroba. There is effectively no support for Sandroba. But again, this only indicates he's not scum, as they wouldn't just let him(and he wouldn't be so lethargic about getting lynched), die when theres a valid excuse.
But I'm not even denying that Sandroba is probably scum. The key fact is that by lynching him we effectively waste a day to either confirm what we already assumed(he's SK), or the fact that he's a vet(in which case we just lynched a town woopdie doo). If we make him unable to shoot for fear of getting caught, then we don't even have to worry about him harming town.
You reasoning rests of two assumptions- He is the SK
- Mafia would defend him if he was scum
The first can only be confirmed by a flip. The second is big. He was scummy since Day 1 and was almost lynched. Then he was shot overnight. Despite all this he has not attempted to provide any analysis at all. Anyone straight up defending him would have to use really weird logic or a chainsaw defense. Surely it is better to let him swing and waste town's time on someone who is clearly not town. Plus they can gain a little cred for his flip and can hide amongst the rest of the votes. I don't see why this is unlikely. If he is mafia they have a medic and he clearly isn't it (he can't protect himself).
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Jackal, so far you have been as useful as tits on a bull.
You survived night 1 which was your reason for lurking day 1. Well it is day 2 and we have nothing from you. What is your reason today? If this keeps up I will have to assume you don't care about town winning and so must be scum. You're good at this game gives us something.
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I actually change my mind, but mainly for two reasons:
1. By having tracker continuously track him, it wastes tracker time when he could be finding more scum(and tracker tracking new people is arguably more important then finding out more evidence). 2. Mafia KP is hidden, so the SK might not actually exist.
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On March 06 2012 08:37 Pandain wrote: 2. Mafia KP is hidden, so the SK might not actually exist.
This will hopefully get clarified by the sandroba lynch. If he flips SK then obviously there was one. If he is veteran then we can assume he was shot and so there are two KP meaning there is a SK. If he is mafia, who cares? If he is town then my mind is full of fuck.
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I was occupied with life events yesterday, hence my inactivity for a large portion of it.
Its far too late in the day to start pushing another case. Id like to see a resolution to this night-hit situation.
##Vote sandroba
Jackal, for a game you claimed 'is worth playing', you sure are going about it strangely. Do you plan to just ignore me calling your case shit? is that because you know it was?
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On March 06 2012 08:20 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2012 08:01 TheToast wrote: Probulous, by your logic vig's should all be lynched day 1 too. Because that's exactly what the SK is, an extra town vig. I've given my reasons for what I did and honestly, you aren't the mayor here so I don't have to defend myself to you anymore that I have already. Pandain is scum. I wanted to lynch him. That's all there was to it. A vig that shoots repeatedly and wins when town dies is not the same as a normal vig. You can't deny that the existence of a SK is a danger to town. It means there is more KP around that needs town to die to win. Like I said, it makes sense for an SK to go after mafia but ultimately he has to go after town as well. So as town we lynch Mafia>SK>Town.
Why didn't you bring any of this up yesterday when I came up with the sandro is SK theory? I suppose it makes sense, but I still say if there is a confirmed scum you vote them over the SK. Pandain is confirmed scum IMO. If in your terrible reasoning that makes me scum, then whatever.
On March 06 2012 08:37 Pandain wrote: I actually change my mind, but mainly for two reasons:
1. By having tracker continuously track him, it wastes tracker time when he could be finding more scum(and tracker tracking new people is arguably more important then finding out more evidence). 2. Mafia KP is hidden, so the SK might not actually exist.
1. Toast calls out Pandain for defending Sandro 2. Pandain 180s and decides to lynch sandro
Calling it now, Pandain Sandro scum team.
Sandro's lurkiness makes me think he's not a vanilla mafia, possibly a vig. Pandain can wait for day 3.
##Unvote ##Vote: Sandroba
Eating dinner now, I'll post a nice long analysis later.
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On March 06 2012 08:32 Probulous wrote: Jackal, so far you have been as useful as tits on a bull.
You survived night 1 which was your reason for lurking day 1. Well it is day 2 and we have nothing from you. What is your reason today? If this keeps up I will have to assume you don't care about town winning and so must be scum. You're good at this game gives us something. Thank you. Just got home from work. I don't know why anybody thinks I'm good at this. It pops up every game.
Dunno what Sandroba is. I was hoping Palmar would slip but it's hard to get Palmar to slip, but any ways I think Palmar is SK. If he's scum he has done a good job changing his scum persona. If he's 3rd party he's changed that a bit as well but I certainly don't see him as town. I stand by my belief Adam is scum. I've been absent. He's been useless. Pandain scares the hell out of me. I've seen him pull this kind of fake claim as scum before. And get away with it. Everybody else no freaking clue.
##VOTE: Adam4167
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Current Vote Count:
Sandroba - 9 TheToast Adam4167 Pandain Probulous Paperscraps Snarfs Bluelightz deconduo Palmar
Adam4167 - 2 Jackal58
Probulous A Killer Cuppa Tea
A Killer Cuppa Tea - 1
Palmar
Bluelightz
deconduo
Snarfs sandroba
Bluelightz - 0
Pandain
Probulous
Deconduo - 0
Paperscraps
TheToast - 0
Pandain
Pandain - 0
TheToast
A Killer Cuppa Tea
If there is a mistake, please let me know. Voting ends in 2 hours 50 minutes.
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Hmmmm, my gut tells me that Sandroba is vet, but logic dictates that Sandroba is mafia/SK. This bandwagon on Sandroba went up pretty darn fast. But, alas Sandroba hasn't taken his vote off of AKCT and not putting up a fight at all.
This lynch on Sandroba doesn't feel right. I feel if I change my vote though, people will think that scummy.
Only one person died last night. Something doesn't fit here.
Going to change my vote anyways. Back to my "tunnel" on Deconduo, who has been coasting.
##Unvote
##Vote: Deconduo
Inb4 people say I am scum trying to make myself look townie "if" Sandroba flips vet.
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On March 06 2012 09:08 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2012 08:32 Probulous wrote: Jackal, so far you have been as useful as tits on a bull.
You survived night 1 which was your reason for lurking day 1. Well it is day 2 and we have nothing from you. What is your reason today? If this keeps up I will have to assume you don't care about town winning and so must be scum. You're good at this game gives us something. Thank you. Just got home from work. I don't know why anybody thinks I'm good at this. It pops up every game. Dunno what Sandroba is. I was hoping Palmar would slip but it's hard to get Palmar to slip, but any ways I think Palmar is SK. If he's scum he has done a good job changing his scum persona. If he's 3rd party he's changed that a bit as well but I certainly don't see him as town. I stand by my belief Adam is scum. I've been absent. He's been useless. Pandain scares the hell out of me. I've seen him pull this kind of fake claim as scum before. And get away with it. Everybody else no freaking clue. ##VOTE: Adam4167
What you're saying makes no sense.
You don't know what sandroba is, yet you were inferring my guilt from me defending him earlier. You think Palmar could be 3rd party or scum. I spent a large portion of D1 attacking Palmar. Yet i'm scum.
You calling someone useless is rich. I hope for your sake you aren't town, because if this is your town play, you have a very inflated reputation.
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I'm not scum. I doubt AKCT is. You guys see a fucking problem with this lynch?
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On March 06 2012 09:25 Adam4167 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2012 09:08 Jackal58 wrote:On March 06 2012 08:32 Probulous wrote: Jackal, so far you have been as useful as tits on a bull.
You survived night 1 which was your reason for lurking day 1. Well it is day 2 and we have nothing from you. What is your reason today? If this keeps up I will have to assume you don't care about town winning and so must be scum. You're good at this game gives us something. Thank you. Just got home from work. I don't know why anybody thinks I'm good at this. It pops up every game. Dunno what Sandroba is. I was hoping Palmar would slip but it's hard to get Palmar to slip, but any ways I think Palmar is SK. If he's scum he has done a good job changing his scum persona. If he's 3rd party he's changed that a bit as well but I certainly don't see him as town. I stand by my belief Adam is scum. I've been absent. He's been useless. Pandain scares the hell out of me. I've seen him pull this kind of fake claim as scum before. And get away with it. Everybody else no freaking clue. ##VOTE: Adam4167 What you're saying makes no sense. You don't know what sandroba is, yet you were inferring my guilt from me defending him earlier. You think Palmar could be 3rd party or scum. I spent a large portion of D1 attacking Palmar. Yet i'm scum. You calling someone useless is rich. I hope for your sake you aren't town, because if this is your town play, you have a very inflated reputation.
Makes me believe even all the more he's SK. Scum love to find SKs.
And thanks for showing up only when I mention you.
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You arent even reading the thread, are you?
I posted before you did, at 8:55 KST
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On March 05 2012 18:25 deconduo wrote:Why would he be worried about getting shot if he knew he had a medic to save him? In fact, I think SK is far far more likely as they would have the most to lose by getting shot; losing their night life. A mafia with a medic to back them up is basically immune to night hits, so shouldn't be worried at all.
On March 06 2012 07:52 deconduo wrote: I agree that he isn't scum, but he's almost certainly SK. We're better off lynching him now, rather than letting him get another shot off.
Paper, decon doesn't read as scum to me. Your case was that he was pushing bad cases. Well when it was clear they weren't happening (me) he dropped it. That could be scum or town. Misder disappeared and never responded to anything so it would be monumentally stupid of decon to remove his vote without something to explain it. I mean if Misder could get off by just not saying anything then we would never lynch mafia. He followed through with his case and was wrong. At least he was clear on his intention to lynch Misder.
Compare that with Toast's actions. He chose to not to vote for his "SK" and let a townie swing. His actions are far more scummy than decon. Sandroba has been actively useless (is there such a thing?). He is around and posts enough to avoid the modkill but doesn't bother to add anything of use.
Is there anything more to your case than his bad reads?
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On March 06 2012 09:31 Adam4167 wrote: You arent even reading the thread, are you?
I posted before you did, at 8:55 KST Jumping on a Sandroba wagon does not count.
And seriously at that point you should be able to see that nobody had voted anywhere else. You're scum bro.
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On March 06 2012 10:16 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2012 09:31 Adam4167 wrote: You arent even reading the thread, are you?
I posted before you did, at 8:55 KST Jumping on a Sandroba wagon does not count. And seriously at that point you should be able to see that nobody had voted anywhere else. You're scum bro.
You keep banging that drum.
And I'm not your 'bro'.
You come back with a coherent case that consists of more then baseless accusations, and then I'll defend myself. Otherwise, find something more productive to do, because right now you're just filling the thread with pointless noise.
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On March 06 2012 10:37 Adam4167 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2012 10:16 Jackal58 wrote:On March 06 2012 09:31 Adam4167 wrote: You arent even reading the thread, are you?
I posted before you did, at 8:55 KST Jumping on a Sandroba wagon does not count. And seriously at that point you should be able to see that nobody had voted anywhere else. You're scum bro. You keep banging that drum. And I'm not your 'bro'. You come back with a coherent case that consists of more then baseless accusations, and then I'll defend myself. Otherwise, find something more productive to do, because right now you're just filling the thread with pointless noise. Calling scum scum is never pointless.
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On March 04 2012 09:05 Adam4167 wrote: I also didn't vote for sandroba on similar reasons, I think he is being lazy or just plain doesn't give a shit, which is not indicative of his alignment to me.So I was presented with the 'choice' of voting for two people, neither of which I find overly scummy. So I decided to provoke Palmar, partly because I feel his play is different to what I expect from town Palmar, partly to gain a better read on him in case I am wrong and he is town.
On March 05 2012 08:30 Adam4167 wrote: Don't forget attack Palmar, I've done plenty of that as well. How does any of that make me scum and only scum? You are assuming Sandroba's guilt from his lack of effort (something BOTH of you were doing) and then inferring my guilt from that.
From this I read suspicion of Palmar for his case against sandroba. Therefore in terms of likelihood of being mafia Palmar > sandroba.
On March 05 2012 13:23 Adam4167 wrote:Bluelightz, why are you giving up so easily after one vote? Compared to your play in Normal Mini Mafia I, where you had 4 votes piled on you the first day and you tried to defend yourself.Do you feel guilty again, like in Student Mafia?
Suspicion of Bluelightz, therefore likelihood of mafia Bluelightz > sandroba.
On March 06 2012 08:55 Adam4167 wrote: Its far too late in the day to start pushing another case. Id like to see a resolution to this night-hit situation. ##Vote sandroba
What happened?
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Current Vote Count:
Sandroba - 8 TheToast Adam4167 Pandain Probulous
Paperscraps Snarfs Bluelightz deconduo Palmar
Adam4167 - 2 Jackal58
Probulous A Killer Cuppa Tea
A Killer Cuppa Tea - 1
Palmar
Bluelightz
deconduo
Snarfs sandroba
Deconduo - 1 Paperscraps
Bluelightz - 0
Pandain
Probulous
TheToast - 0
Pandain
Pandain - 0
TheToast
A Killer Cuppa Tea
If there is a mistake, please let me know. Voting ends in 1 hour at 12 KST. Sandroba is currently to be lynched.
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On March 03 2012 10:27 Palmar wrote: you Adam4167 also, if I'm scum you lynch me, vet or not it's bad logic to let vets get away with shit.
On March 04 2012 03:14 Palmar wrote:Deconduo, you decided to use an easy fucking bullshit explanation to vote a townie, even after I told you that it was bullshit, and I later explained that I thought he was town. I take that as an insult. You're literally calling me bad at mafia by straight up refusing to listen to me.I will make sure you die this game. Palmar do you still think a scum team of sandroba, Adam and decon makes sense? Your input would be appreciated. As with Jackal you're good when you're town so I value your thoughts.
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I don't think Sandroba is going to flip scum. He claimed he was looking to be replaced. Nobody has voted against or argued against his lynch. If sand is scum they are bussing him.
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@Everyone
What would be a reasonably balanced number of scum if there was a Serial Killer. I know this is setup speculation and so cannot be relied upon but I have no idea how these setups are usually balanced. I have been basing on reads on the assumption of three mafia, is this reasonable?
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EBWOP: *my reads
What a fail
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Once the lynch is done can we please get a final vote count that includes the ordering of the votes? eg Toast is labelled as the first voter for sandroba which is not correct. I can do this if it is not part of the hosts' responsibility. Thanks
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United States5684 Posts
On March 06 2012 11:18 Probulous wrote: Once the lynch is done can we please get a final vote count that includes the ordering of the votes? eg Toast is labelled as the first voter for sandroba which is not correct. I can do this if it is not part of the hosts' responsibility. Thanks
yeah i'll do this with the night post
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I'm posting from my phone so I can't quote stuff.
Prob, I already stated why I'm on the sandroba lynch in that post. It's too late in the day for me to push the cases I want to push, so I'm bandwagon voting on sandroba to try and get a better grasp on what happened last night. I like other lynches better but convincing at least 4 people to move off of sandroba is something that would take more time then we had when I voted.
It's a shit vote and I know it, but my vote going anywhere else is just as shit, considering the current vote tally.
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On March 06 2012 11:38 Adam4167 wrote: I'm posting from my phone so I can't quote stuff.
Prob, I already stated why I'm on the sandroba lynch in that post. It's too late in the day for me to push the cases I want to push, so I'm bandwagon voting on sandroba to try and get a better grasp on what happened last night. I like other lynches better but convincing at least 4 people to move off of sandroba is something that would take more time then we had when I voted.
It's a shit vote and I know it, but my vote going anywhere else is just as shit, considering the current vote tally.
Well this is completely illogical. Your last sentence implies that sandroba is getting lynched regardless of your vote. The rest of your post suggests you want a conclusion to the night hit. Well combining those would suggest that you will get that conclusion regardless of how you vote.
In this situation it would make sense to stick with your reads. If people switch to your reads then great, if not you get clarification on the hit. Either way it looks like you don't believe he is scum, so why vote for him? You're taking the easy way out and I don't like it. Town Adam doesn't do things the easy way.
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On March 06 2012 11:09 Jackal58 wrote: I don't think Sandroba is going to flip scum. He claimed he was looking to be replaced. Nobody has voted against or argued against his lynch. If sand is scum they are bussing him.
I think you are wrong.
Sandro originally caught my attention for his posts, they've been really irregular to start, clearly he's been pretty lurky this game. Of the few there are, almost all of them have been really pointless, strange, and full of fluff. Originally day 1 I was thinking SK, it seemed to make sense given how lurky he is and what has seemed to be him trying to avert attention from himself. As soon as I made this accusation against him he immediately voted for my lynch day 1. Who immediately votes to lynch someone for one post?
Despite there being no second kill night one (doesn't prove no SK, votes could have stacked) the real evidence for me was Pandain's reaction to sandro's imminent lynch. Pandain has barely even recognized sandro's existence this game then posts this:
On March 06 2012 07:43 Pandain wrote: There's no reason to vote sandroba, he's not scum(no resistance at all)so that leaves either sk or town. Rather than vote him, we should merely track him. This will effectively negate any chance of him shooting again. I do believe he's sk but feel this is A better alternative as it encompasses all the reasons we would want to lynch sk without the risk of lynching town. We should use today instead as an opportunity to lynch scum.
So here's Pandain basically defending sandro saying he could be town. Take a look at sandro's filter for this game, there's no way that he is town. Sandro's town play looks nothing like this. I called Pandain out and posted this (spoilered)
+ Show Spoiler +On March 06 2012 08:01 TheToast wrote: I would have agreed with you before Day 2. See the thing is, SK has 1kp per night. So where is the second night 2 hit? Sandro so far is the only one to have claimed vet and says he took the hit. Are we to assume he shot himself? I suppose there's a chance that both the SK and mafia hit RG, but that doesn't seem terribly likely.
This set off alarm bells for me. I took a look at your filter Pandain, what's interesting is that this is the first time you've really discussed Sandro at all. And to come out arguing that he could possibly be town? Really? Sandro is not town this game. He's been lurky and posting weird pointless short fluff. I don't understand where you are getting this from.
I'm leaving work now, so I'll be posting a bit more detailed explanation of my thoughts in a bit. But after this, my leading scum suspects are Pandain and now Sandroba.
Just over a half hour later Pandain goes a complete 180 and posts this:
On March 06 2012 08:37 Pandain wrote: I actually change my mind, but mainly for two reasons:
1. By having tracker continuously track him, it wastes tracker time when he could be finding more scum(and tracker tracking new people is arguably more important then finding out more evidence). 2. Mafia KP is hidden, so the SK might not actually exist.
All that reasoning about the tracker/no lynch plan? Out the window! No clearly it was all just a terrible idea, screw it just lynch him!
This is clearly a scum move. He defends him with a ridiculous argument then after getting called on it completely back tracks but does so in a way that attempts to make it look like the result of some logical reasoning. Sorry, nope.
Pandain is scum and this little diddly of a post convinced me he's trying to protect Sandro and then bailed when I called him out on it. My guess is Sandro is a vig or medic. It explains why he was lurking all game and why he's been trying to keep attention off himself. Also explains why Pandain has practically ignored him this game and why he tried this clumsy defense. Also explains why there was no second kill night 1 (because there is no SK)
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Waiting for a typical TL last minute vote switch that leads to a medic outing themselves and a no-lynch. This game has been pretty boring. Half the time I end up talking to myself.
Paper I am still waiting on your response to my question about decon.
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ROFL that timing again. Always gets me.
f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5
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United States5684 Posts
Final Vote Count: (Voters in Chronological order)
Sandroba - 8 decon palmar bluelightz snarfs
paperscraps probulous pandain adam4167 thetoast
Adam4167 - 2 A Killer Cuppa Tea
Probulous Jackal58
A Killer Cuppa Tea - 1
Palmar
Bluelightz
deconduo
Snarfs sandroba
Deconduo - 1 Paperscraps
Bluelightz - 0
Pandain
Probulous
TheToast - 0
Pandain
Pandain - 0
TheToast
A Killer Cuppa Tea
If there is a mistake, please let me know.
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United States5684 Posts
Night 2: A Clear Majority
After losing two of the ships finest sea lassies the crew got to work hunting down any possible mutiny. Uproar of hidden plans and trickery were a plenty. In the end the vast majority of fingers, of those who still had theirs, and pegs were all pointed at one Pirate. "Sandroba" called out Captain Wiggles, "the rest of the ship wants you dead, any words for yourself?"
With a smirk on his face Sandroba stood tall and said nothing.
"Fine," proclaimed Captain Wiggles, "it is YOU who will walk the plank today."
Behind the screams and cheers of the rest of the ship, Sandroba , weighted with cannons tied around his waist, walked eerily silent off the plank and into the sudden death of the Sea.
As the ship pulled away, a thin trace of red could be seen from where Sandroba's body would remain for eternity.
Sandroba the Mafia Goon has walked the plank!
Night 2 has now begun. Day 3 will begin at 11:00 KST, 23 hours from now. Please remember to submit all actions to myself and Mr. Wiggles before then.
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*dancing in the street*
ooooh yeah!!!!
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Town Adam does as he pleases, regadless of what people think of him.
Town Adam is also developing a habit of defending mafia. Really need to work on that.
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On March 06 2012 11:57 Probulous wrote: Waiting for a typical TL last minute vote switch that leads to a medic outing themselves and a no-lynch. This game has been pretty boring. Half the time I end up talking to myself.
lmao.
And I was right about BF that time too, that's what made it all the worse.
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So Pandain, I'm interested in hearing your response to TheToast's latest accusation.
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On March 06 2012 11:18 Probulous wrote: Once the lynch is done can we please get a final vote count that includes the ordering of the votes? eg Toast is labelled as the first voter for sandroba which is not correct. I can do this if it is not part of the hosts' responsibility. Thanks My vote counts normally go most recent to least recent, with small discrepancies. Read the list from bottom to top. :p
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Honestly I've only half read Toast's accusations, as they were mostly just crazy conspiracy's and rampant accusations, that somehow made all my actions seem preplanned.
But I guess it turns out that Sandroba is mafia, and not sk, so Toast was right there. Guess every once in a while conspiracies are right :p.
No real point in addressing them, anyone who sees all my posts can see I'm clearly pro town.
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I meant specifically the flip flopping between Sandroba being not worth lynching, then being a good lynch target.
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If you care to take a look, my thought process was clear and logical. No one ended up pointing out the flaws in the plan which I would later discover on my own, so when I did discover them I changed.
I wouldn't change because of Toast lol.
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Final Scummy Votes
Sandroba - 8 3) bluelightz
Deconduo - 1 1) Paperscraps
Bluelightz
On March 06 2012 00:12 Bluelightz wrote: Alright, I'm voting sandroba, I believe his scum because he is useless and has not provided good content, his hit claim is interesting though. ##Vote: sandroba He needs to be splattered across the pavement, preferably across many pavements.
Paperscraps
On March 06 2012 09:22 Paperscraps wrote: Hmmmm, my gut tells me that Sandroba is vet, but logic dictates that Sandroba is mafia/SK. This bandwagon on Sandroba went up pretty darn fast. But, alas Sandroba hasn't taken his vote off of AKCT and not putting up a fight at all. This lynch on Sandroba doesn't feel right. I feel if I change my vote though, people will think that scummy. Only one person died last night. Something doesn't fit here. Going to change my vote anyways. Back to my "tunnel" on Deconduo, who has been coasting. ##Unvote ##Vote: Deconduo Inb4 people say I am scum trying to make myself look townie "if" Sandroba flips vet.
A single person getting shot simply implies there is no SK. It's almost like he knows there is another kill point and that is what is causing the confusion. In other words sandroba did get shot and his claim was real. I believe this to be true as referenced by my earlier posts. Sandroba's claim was not one of celebration that a vet or fake claim would be. He didn't want to claim the shot but he had to. He flipped red which means that if sandroba was shot he was saved by a mafia medic.
The rest of this post is a clear attempt to distance himself from sandroba. His decision to vote for decon isn't that he thinks decon is scum but rather that sandroba "feels" like a vet. I've asked him to clarify his reason for voting for decon because all I read is "bad reads" which clearly Paper also has. I would not be upset if I saw him missing a head.
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On March 06 2012 12:06 Adam4167 wrote: Town Adam does as he pleases, regadless of what people think of him.
Town Adam is also developing a habit of defending mafia. Really need to work on that. As it should be.
I knew GMarshall. You sir are no GMarshall.
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Urrgh this thread is dead. I'm going to laugh if I die overnight cause this thread will turn into a ghost town. Come on guys post your thoughts, move this thread along. There is plenty to analyse but no-one is here. I'm heading home now and might log on later.
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I got something coming up for you, you should definitely check later.
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On March 06 2012 15:01 Probulous wrote: Urrgh this thread is dead. I'm going to laugh if I die overnight cause this thread will turn into a ghost town. Come on guys post your thoughts, move this thread along. There is plenty to analyse but no-one is here. I'm heading home now and might log on later.
I'm home now.
What do you want to talk about?
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On March 06 2012 12:34 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2012 12:06 Adam4167 wrote: Town Adam does as he pleases, regadless of what people think of him.
Town Adam is also developing a habit of defending mafia. Really need to work on that. As it should be. I knew GMarshall. You sir are no GMarshall.
Whats with the GMarshall comment?
Even though I have massive respect for him, I was never trying to be him??
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The town now needs something to discuss. With Sandroba gone, everyone should go back and reread the thread with his flip in mind (obvious, I know). Come up with some different conclusions. We have almost 3 days to discuss now (except for one or maybe two of us *sad face). I have done this and here is what I have come up with (I've spoilered the longer quotes):
Why Paperscraps should be lynched tomorrow:
To start off the game, we have a couple of not so awesome posts:
On March 02 2012 02:09 Paperscraps wrote: Probulous is town Palmar is null rg is town
deconduo is scum for his horrible reads so far
Vote: deconduo
On March 02 2012 17:07 Paperscraps wrote: Question do we know how many scum there are in the game?
My scum reads so far. Jackal - Has posted nothing of substance. He also agrees with Deconduo who is scum Deconduo - His reaction to me calling him scum was pretty bad, telling me I slipped, when I just disagreed. TheToast - Very defensive, diplomatic and not scum hunting at all.
##Vote: Deconduo
I messed up the format last time. I point out the fact that his vote lacked any sort of his usual reasoning (something he still hasn't provided), and then add that it came after Palmar was hassling dec. Here is his reply:
+ Show Spoiler +On March 03 2012 08:42 Paperscraps wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 07:36 Snarfs wrote:##Vote PaperscrapsI've noted the defence of Paper, namely that posting short lists of players with little analysis is something he just does. That being said, something else he does is back up his votes with some reasoning. So far, his reasoning for voting deconduo is: deconduo is scum for his horrible reads so far His reaction to me calling him scum was pretty bad, telling me I slipped, when I just disagreed. Furthermore, Paperscraps' vote for deconduo came shortly after Palmar was grilling him, making him a seemingly easier target to jump on. The combination of the lack of reasoning and the fact that Palmar was grilling dec makes me think that Paper was trying to hop on a wagon while it was forming. The irony in this post is pretty laughable. This whole entire post is pretty hypocritical as well. I play a certain way at the beginning of games to gauge people's reactions. My FoS on Deconduo was because I thought his reads were off base. Then his reaction to my vote seemed overdone. I mean who cares what I think really. I was just one guy voting him up for a reaction test, in which he failed. Now if I understand you correctly, Snarfs, two whole votes on some one is a bandwagon. You could accuse Deconduo for the same logic, which is bad logic btw. Palmar grilling Deconduo has nothing to do with this. Palmar didn't even vote him up, so your last point makes no sense at all. There is no bandwagon. I will be the last person to be lynched in this game and probably one of the first to be murdered during the night.
What does Paper focus on? He focuses first on attacking my credibility: Calling the irony in my post laughable and calling my post hypocritical. Then, he gives a short one-liner explaining his vote ("thought his reads were off base"), then justifying a reason for keeping it ("his reaction to my vote seemed overdone"). For reference, dec's response was this:
+ Show Spoiler +On March 02 2012 09:19 deconduo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 02:09 Paperscraps wrote: Probulous is town Palmar is null rg is town
deconduo is scum for his horrible reads so far
Vote: deconduo Scumslip much? I might have bad reads, but the only way you could know they were bad is if you're scum. Especially seeing as neither read was about you.
Is that really an unreasonable response given the accusation? No, it isn't. At the end of the above quote, Paperscraps again attacks my credibility, saying my last point makes no sense at all. Reread the thread. Palmar starts calling out deconduo for a bad read. Paperscraps jumps in with a vote and his reasoning is that deconduo's reads are bad. I make the connection. Makes sense.
Then we see this:
Also Bluelightz has voted me which is hilarious. Funny, he provided more reasoning for voting than Paperscraps did for his vote. Good attempt at discrediting him though.
Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 03:58 Jackal58 wrote: misder and Paperscraps both appear to be doing an omgus vote on Decon.
Why do you guys think Decon is scummy? Jackal, it isn't OMGUS when I voted him first, which I have stated my reasons for doing so. If anything Decon has OMGUS on me right now. At this point, Dec has mentioned Paper in two one-liners this game, the worst of which is to say "We lynch Misder today and Paper tomorrow. I had a look at Pandain's filter and its nothing as bad as these two." Hardly OMGUS when you consider that up until this point, Paper's filter is indeed pretty bad.
Followed by some defending of himself:
+ Show Spoiler +Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 04:06 deconduo wrote:On March 02 2012 17:07 Paperscraps wrote: Question do we know how many scum there are in the game?
My scum reads so far. Jackal - Has posted nothing of substance. He also agrees with Deconduo who is scum Deconduo - His reaction to me calling him scum was pretty bad, telling me I slipped, when I just disagreed. TheToast - Very defensive, diplomatic and not scum hunting at all.
##Vote: Deconduo
I messed up the format last time. Please explain how could you know my reads were bad if you are town? We lynch Misder today and Paper tomorrow. I had a look at Pandain's filter and its nothing as bad as these two. I know Decon's reads are bad, because I am getting towntells from the people Decon is calling scum. Doesn't the last sentence of this quote strike you as odd? Pushing on Misder and I, the only two people to have him voted up. If that isn't OMGUS, then I don't know what is. I can see a bit of a team forming between Decon and Jackal right now.
Pandain has been playing more town as of late. Palmar is playing weird this game so far. He might be scum.
This part makes sense: Paper thinks Decon's reads are bad because he's getting town reads from the people Decon is calling scum. This part doesn't: Decon has 2 bad reads a day into the game; therefore, he's scum. Good analysis of Pandain and Palmar as well. Note who he claims who is playing more town and who might be scum; this might be important later.
Next up, Paper attempts to defend himself. Nothing really to gather from here, except for the fact that Jackal is one of his top two scum at this point. Jackal who had 8 posts up until that point, none of which could possibly be considered either pro-town or anti-town. However, Jackal did mention that he was okay with lynching Paperscraps.
+ Show Spoiler +On March 03 2012 09:07 Paperscraps wrote:Hey Bluelightz are you going to change your vote to a better lynch like Decon or Jackal? First off your case against me is weaksauce. Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 20:38 Bluelightz wrote:I do agree that there is an SK here.
I Believe Paperscraps is scum. Let's look at his posts. On March 01 2012 14:35 Paperscraps wrote:Hey everybody!
Just got home from school.
The Probulous spam makes me laugh. I am cool with lynching all lurkers. Hopefully this will be an active game, so we don't have to resort to such measures. I am excited to play with a few more vets in this game, than my previous games. Quality of posts > Quantity of posts The part I italiced is just fluff. The other part of this post is just voicing his opinion On March 02 2012 02:09 Paperscraps wrote: Probulous is town Palmar is null rg is town
deconduo is scum for his horrible reads so far
Vote: deconduo List = Useless, he didnt even provide reasons for why X is town, his reason for voting deconduo, I don't agree how reads can be horrible unless you know other people's alignment. On March 02 2012 17:07 Paperscraps wrote: Question do we know how many scum there are in the game?
My scum reads so far. Jackal - Has posted nothing of substance. He also agrees with Deconduo who is scum Deconduo - His reaction to me calling him scum was pretty bad, telling me I slipped, when I just disagreed. TheToast - Very defensive, diplomatic and not scum hunting at all.
##Vote: Deconduo
I messed up the format last time. Fixed his vote, his list is not useless this time. and......... No more posts! Also, he is not providing anything useful to town and not contributing to the discussion. So, ##Vote: Paperscraps I have provided a lot of useful information to town. I got a reaction out of Decon to show his true colors. Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 09:19 deconduo wrote: Scumslip much? I might have bad reads, but the only way you could know they were bad is if you're scum. Especially seeing as neither read was about you. He is already doubting his reads. Of course I can't be 100% sure on anything, but some players are obviously townie. Bluelightz and Deconduo argument's against me hinge on two main points. 1. I can't know if their reads are bad, unless I am scum 2. Making lists are bad and scummy. When player A towntells and player B calls player A scum, then of course I am going to think something is wrong here. It is pretty reasonable to think they either (a) Player B is scum trying to get a townie lynched or (b) Player B is just bad at mafia and reading bad. I don't see the latter Making lists is NOT scummy. Just because I don't provide a book long post on the merits of each player doesn't make me scum. Making lists is town. It lets you know where my reads are at and gauge me at my scum hunting abilities. Just look at Decon and Jackal's filters and tell me they aren't scum. Jackal's filter takes 5 seconds to read and Decon's filter is full of non-sense and bad arguments.
Next, Paper tries to get rg to claim Vig.
On March 03 2012 18:02 Paperscraps wrote: rg who are you shooting tonight? At this point my read on rg was either Veteran trying to draw fire, or SK without a clue as to what he was doing. Am I going to try and get rg to claim his blue role though? No. Is any townie going to try and get rg to claim his blue role? No. So why is Paper trying to get him to claim his blue role?
Next up we see a great example of how to make a meaningful looking post without actually posting anything, followed by defending a scum buddy:
On March 04 2012 07:07 Paperscraps wrote: A)Three people voted Misder: Deconduo, AKCT and Jackal. They all give me a scum vibe, but I can't believe that scum would vote together like that on the first day. At least one of them has to be scum though or they are all just bad at this game.
B)Deconduo's little back and forth with Palmar today was interesting. Deconduo calling Palmar bad at scum hunting is pretty funny imo. Deconduo blamed Palmar for Misder's death, but Decon was the one with the vote on Misder. Pretty contradictory. Palmar is still null to me right now although Palmar's read on Misder was correct and Decon's read was wrong, as I have said in previous posts. I am still leaning towards Decon being scum. He is redirecting blame on to others when he should accept responsibility.
C)Jackal has posted no substance at all. His reaction to the Misder lynch was over done. He has buddied/defended Decon which I find scummy. @Jackal: I would like to see some actual scum hunting come from you. Anything at all really, that isn't filler
D)A Killer Cuppa Tea uses being drunk as an excuse for pretty much everything. Also AKCT thought Probulous was mafia which is a pretty bad read. Right now I think AKCT is just a ignorant townie.
E)Sandroba will by far be the easy lynch tomorrow and maybe rightly so. Posts one line content and filler. I don't agree with Sandroba's read on TheToast as of now. TheToast is null to me at the moment. I feel as though Sandroba might be too easy of a lynch. If Sandroba is mafia, then why lurk and post crap and be sure to get lynched. Does Sandroba just not care about the game? Maybe just a bored vanilla townie? A) We can all see who voted Misder. Saying that at least one of them has to be scum? A terrible assumption. 3 out of 13 people (not including Misder himself). And at least one of them has to be scum? Hardly.
B) Summarizes Deconduo and Palmar's chat for us. Ends with a slightly weaker read on Dec. Now he's only "leaning towards Decon being scum". What happened there?
C) Calls Jackal out for not posting much. Fluff.
D) More fluff about AKCT
E)Now this is very interesting. Agrees that Sandroba is the easy lynch. Agrees that he's been posting nothing. Disagrees with Sandroba's read (sounds familiar to the Decon case). Then spends 4 sentences convincing himself that Sandroba is a bored vanilla townie? Not looking so good given Sandroba flipped scum.
Next up we see Paper claim that he thinks Sandroba is SK and is claiming a fake hit.
On March 05 2012 08:37 Paperscraps wrote: Ok so Sandroba claims vet or saved by medic. Why would Sandroba have been targeted as all last night? I don't think a medic would have been on Sandroba either. Thus that leaves the vet claim. Honestly I think Sandroba is SK that is claiming a fake hit. Then, 9 hours later, his opinion is changed.
On March 05 2012 17:35 Paperscraps wrote: Deconduo, TheToast, and Jackal are all better lynches. I don't know if we should lynch Sandroba yet, due to the hit claim. Sandroba is on ice though and needs to start contributing as do a lot of other players. And finally, this beauty:
On March 06 2012 05:02 Paperscraps wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2012 01:06 sandroba wrote: I'm busy as fuck right now and I'm already working towards being replaced. I'm veteran. I got shot last night. That's all the info I have good luck. If you aren't even going to try, then you are going to get lynched. ##Unvote##Vote Sandroba
Side note: TheToast is scum. Followed by this:
On March 06 2012 05:27 Paperscraps wrote: Slinging unsupported accusations is what I do! Have you been playing this game? Oh, and this:
On March 06 2012 09:22 Paperscraps wrote: Hmmmm, my gut tells me that Sandroba is vet, but logic dictates that Sandroba is mafia/SK. This bandwagon on Sandroba went up pretty darn fast. But, alas Sandroba hasn't taken his vote off of AKCT and not putting up a fight at all.
This lynch on Sandroba doesn't feel right. I feel if I change my vote though, people will think that scummy.
Only one person died last night. Something doesn't fit here.
Going to change my vote anyways. Back to my "tunnel" on Deconduo, who has been coasting.
##Unvote
##Vote: Deconduo
Inb4 people say I am scum trying to make myself look townie "if" Sandroba flips vet. To recap, first he states Sandroba is an SK with a fake claim. Then, he states Sandroba is not worth lynching. Then, he is worth lynching (after votes are 4-2 Sandroba over Bluelightz, with a single vote on Pandain, AKCT, Adam and his own on Dec). Then, the "lynch on Sandroba doesn't feel right".
Now, you should all compare Paperscraps' posting to his previous games where he was town. The contrast is frightening. There we have such great gems as:
On January 27 2012 18:38 Paperscraps wrote: I just want to clarify that I am not taking the lynch lightly. Rash decisions and shotgun voting are a bad idea. Honestly we don't have much to go on yet for the D1 lynch. Why am I the one stalling when the majority of the town hasn't voted yet either? By your logic they should all be scum as well for "stalling".
I am not waiting to vote. My mind is still changing. Just because I don't vote and unvote every other post doesn't make timid.
I will vote when I am ready to vote, not before.
On January 27 2012 19:27 Paperscraps wrote: I meant this
*Being 100% sure of anything is impossible for a townie during N1. And he can be reasoned with and isn't afraid to change is vote:
On January 29 2012 04:42 Paperscraps wrote:##Unvote: Palmar##Vote: PrplhzTwo reasons for my change here. 1. My read on Palmar is neutral, by voting him up earlier I was hoping to get him to be more constructive and reasonable. This doesn't look likely now. I don't know all the meta everyone else knows about Palmar, but I think this can be a good thing. I can be more objective about my reads on him in the future. 2. Prplhz voted up wherebugsgo and then just left. No reason at all. Show nested quote +On January 28 2012 01:06 prplhz wrote: I need to go shopping now but I'll write something when I get back.
##Vote: wherebugsgo If you say you are going to do something, then follow through. Accountability!
Finally, he has the ability to perform good analysis: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=299955¤tpage=46#911
Does this look like the same Paperscraps? It certainly doesn't to me.
And THAT is why Paperscraps is scum, and should be lynched tomorrow.
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*High five*
You could have boiled that down but it is a decent case. I laughed when I jumped back on here and you had posted this massive case and Adam has posted "what do you want to talk about?" There is a reason you look town and he doesn't. I am interested in Paper's response, especially an explanation for his voting.
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I don't push cases at night time, unless its so close to the deadline that mafia cant shoot me for it.
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Iceland22590 Posts
No let's lynch Deconduo for being an asshole to me when I'm right and he's wrong.
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Nice flip ^^! Was at school for most of the day so couldnt post much.
We should take a look at the people who wanted to derail the lynch.
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Holy crap this is awesome! People are actually playing the game now.
My responses below are bolded and underlined.
On March 06 2012 15:33 Snarfs wrote:The town now needs something to discuss. With Sandroba gone, everyone should go back and reread the thread with his flip in mind (obvious, I know). Come up with some different conclusions. We have almost 3 days to discuss now (except for one or maybe two of us *sad face). I have done this and here is what I have come up with (I've spoilered the longer quotes): Why Paperscraps should be lynched tomorrow: To start off the game, we have a couple of not so awesome posts: Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 02:09 Paperscraps wrote: Probulous is town Palmar is null rg is town
deconduo is scum for his horrible reads so far
Vote: deconduo Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 17:07 Paperscraps wrote: Question do we know how many scum there are in the game?
My scum reads so far. Jackal - Has posted nothing of substance. He also agrees with Deconduo who is scum Deconduo - His reaction to me calling him scum was pretty bad, telling me I slipped, when I just disagreed. TheToast - Very defensive, diplomatic and not scum hunting at all.
##Vote: Deconduo
I messed up the format last time. I point out the fact that his vote lacked any sort of his usual reasoning (something he still hasn't provided), and then add that it came after Palmar was hassling dec. "Usual reasoning". Can you be more clear on what you think this is?Are you trying to imply that my read came solely from the Palmar/Deconduo exchange?Here is his reply: + Show Spoiler +On March 03 2012 08:42 Paperscraps wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 07:36 Snarfs wrote:##Vote PaperscrapsI've noted the defence of Paper, namely that posting short lists of players with little analysis is something he just does. That being said, something else he does is back up his votes with some reasoning. So far, his reasoning for voting deconduo is: deconduo is scum for his horrible reads so far His reaction to me calling him scum was pretty bad, telling me I slipped, when I just disagreed. Furthermore, Paperscraps' vote for deconduo came shortly after Palmar was grilling him, making him a seemingly easier target to jump on. The combination of the lack of reasoning and the fact that Palmar was grilling dec makes me think that Paper was trying to hop on a wagon while it was forming. The irony in this post is pretty laughable. This whole entire post is pretty hypocritical as well. I play a certain way at the beginning of games to gauge people's reactions. My FoS on Deconduo was because I thought his reads were off base. Then his reaction to my vote seemed overdone. I mean who cares what I think really. I was just one guy voting him up for a reaction test, in which he failed. Now if I understand you correctly, Snarfs, two whole votes on some one is a bandwagon. You could accuse Deconduo for the same logic, which is bad logic btw. Palmar grilling Deconduo has nothing to do with this. Palmar didn't even vote him up, so your last point makes no sense at all. There is no bandwagon. I will be the last person to be lynched in this game and probably one of the first to be murdered during the night. What does Paper focus on? He focuses first on attacking my credibility: Calling the irony in my post laughable and calling my post hypocritical. Then, he gives a short one-liner explaining his vote ("thought his reads were off base"), then justifying a reason for keeping it ("his reaction to my vote seemed overdone"). You are using the same meta on me in two different ways. You are saying that my posting makes me town, because that is how I played in werewolves mafia. Then you say that my posting makes me scum, because it differs from my posting in my newbie mafia game. I have been town in every mafia game I have played on teamliquid so far.For reference, dec's response was this: + Show Spoiler +On March 02 2012 09:19 deconduo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 02:09 Paperscraps wrote: Probulous is town Palmar is null rg is town
deconduo is scum for his horrible reads so far
Vote: deconduo Scumslip much? I might have bad reads, but the only way you could know they were bad is if you're scum. Especially seeing as neither read was about you. Is that really an unreasonable response given the accusation? No, it isn't. At the end of the above quote, Paperscraps again attacks my credibility, saying my last point makes no sense at all. Reread the thread. Palmar starts calling out deconduo for a bad read. Paperscraps jumps in with a vote and his reasoning is that deconduo's reads are bad. I make the connection. Makes sense. So how do we know anyone is anything when we are town? Certain towntells are obvious and Deconduo is either missing them or over looking them. Deconduo's response is loaded, because Deconduo is saying that the only way I can know his reads are bad is if I am scum. I could use this argument against you right now, saying that you read is horrible, because you think I am scum, when I am town. Just because his reads were on other people, doesn't mean I can't deem them bad. I can't know with 100% certainty if they are wrong or not, but mafia is a game of induction and deduction.Then we see this: Funny, he provided more reasoning for voting than Paperscraps did for his vote. Good attempt at discrediting him though. Quality > quantity. Bluelightz says a lot of things, but there is really no substance behind anything he says.Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 03:58 Jackal58 wrote: misder and Paperscraps both appear to be doing an omgus vote on Decon.
Why do you guys think Decon is scummy? Jackal, it isn't OMGUS when I voted him first, which I have stated my reasons for doing so. If anything Decon has OMGUS on me right now. At this point, Dec has mentioned Paper in two one-liners this game, the worst of which is to say "We lynch Misder today and Paper tomorrow. I had a look at Pandain's filter and its nothing as bad as these two." Hardly OMGUS when you consider that up until this point, Paper's filter is indeed pretty bad. Not sure, what you are trying to get at here. You are saying that my voting of Decon is unjustified. Then Decon foses me with very little reasoning and that isn't OMGUS? Double standard.Followed by some defending of himself: + Show Spoiler +Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 04:06 deconduo wrote:On March 02 2012 17:07 Paperscraps wrote: Question do we know how many scum there are in the game?
My scum reads so far. Jackal - Has posted nothing of substance. He also agrees with Deconduo who is scum Deconduo - His reaction to me calling him scum was pretty bad, telling me I slipped, when I just disagreed. TheToast - Very defensive, diplomatic and not scum hunting at all.
##Vote: Deconduo
I messed up the format last time. Please explain how could you know my reads were bad if you are town? We lynch Misder today and Paper tomorrow. I had a look at Pandain's filter and its nothing as bad as these two. I know Decon's reads are bad, because I am getting towntells from the people Decon is calling scum. Doesn't the last sentence of this quote strike you as odd? Pushing on Misder and I, the only two people to have him voted up. If that isn't OMGUS, then I don't know what is. I can see a bit of a team forming between Decon and Jackal right now.
Pandain has been playing more town as of late. Palmar is playing weird this game so far. He might be scum. This part makes sense: Paper thinks Decon's reads are bad because he's getting town reads from the people Decon is calling scum. This part doesn't: Decon has 2 bad reads a day into the game; therefore, he's scum. Good analysis of Pandain and Palmar as well. Note who he claims who is playing more town and who might be scum; this might be important later. Deconduo's read coupled with his reaction to my fos is what made me think he is scumNext up, Paper attempts to defend himself. Nothing really to gather from here, except for the fact that Jackal is one of his top two scum at this point. Jackal who had 8 posts up until that point, none of which could possibly be considered either pro-town or anti-town. However, Jackal did mention that he was okay with lynching Paperscraps. + Show Spoiler +On March 03 2012 09:07 Paperscraps wrote:Hey Bluelightz are you going to change your vote to a better lynch like Decon or Jackal? First off your case against me is weaksauce. Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 20:38 Bluelightz wrote:I do agree that there is an SK here.
I Believe Paperscraps is scum. Let's look at his posts. On March 01 2012 14:35 Paperscraps wrote:Hey everybody!
Just got home from school.
The Probulous spam makes me laugh. I am cool with lynching all lurkers. Hopefully this will be an active game, so we don't have to resort to such measures. I am excited to play with a few more vets in this game, than my previous games. Quality of posts > Quantity of posts The part I italiced is just fluff. The other part of this post is just voicing his opinion On March 02 2012 02:09 Paperscraps wrote: Probulous is town Palmar is null rg is town
deconduo is scum for his horrible reads so far
Vote: deconduo List = Useless, he didnt even provide reasons for why X is town, his reason for voting deconduo, I don't agree how reads can be horrible unless you know other people's alignment. On March 02 2012 17:07 Paperscraps wrote: Question do we know how many scum there are in the game?
My scum reads so far. Jackal - Has posted nothing of substance. He also agrees with Deconduo who is scum Deconduo - His reaction to me calling him scum was pretty bad, telling me I slipped, when I just disagreed. TheToast - Very defensive, diplomatic and not scum hunting at all.
##Vote: Deconduo
I messed up the format last time. Fixed his vote, his list is not useless this time. and......... No more posts! Also, he is not providing anything useful to town and not contributing to the discussion. So, ##Vote: Paperscraps I have provided a lot of useful information to town. I got a reaction out of Decon to show his true colors. Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 09:19 deconduo wrote: Scumslip much? I might have bad reads, but the only way you could know they were bad is if you're scum. Especially seeing as neither read was about you. He is already doubting his reads. Of course I can't be 100% sure on anything, but some players are obviously townie. Bluelightz and Deconduo argument's against me hinge on two main points. 1. I can't know if their reads are bad, unless I am scum 2. Making lists are bad and scummy. When player A towntells and player B calls player A scum, then of course I am going to think something is wrong here. It is pretty reasonable to think they either (a) Player B is scum trying to get a townie lynched or (b) Player B is just bad at mafia and reading bad. I don't see the latter Making lists is NOT scummy. Just because I don't provide a book long post on the merits of each player doesn't make me scum. Making lists is town. It lets you know where my reads are at and gauge me at my scum hunting abilities. Just look at Decon and Jackal's filters and tell me they aren't scum. Jackal's filter takes 5 seconds to read and Decon's filter is full of non-sense and bad arguments. Next, Paper tries to get rg to claim Vig.At this point my read on rg was either Veteran trying to draw fire, or SK without a clue as to what he was doing. Am I going to try and get rg to claim his blue role though? No. Is any townie going to try and get rg to claim his blue role? No. So why is Paper trying to get him to claim his blue role? LOL. Ok let me explain something to you here. rg was soft claiming Vig pretty hard. Why would someone do this? THEY WANT TO GET SHOT. Ok, so now that we all understand that, we have to try and decipher if the claim seems legit or not. rg was being pretty obvious and blunt about it. My assumption was that he was either a Vet or vanilla townie trying to take one for the team. How can I help rg get shot then? Try and make people believe that I think he is a real vig. (hint hint I really didn't think this) Thus, rg's plan worked out perfectly. I may have even helped.Next up we see a great example of how to make a meaningful looking post without actually posting anything, followed by defending a scum buddy: Show nested quote +On March 04 2012 07:07 Paperscraps wrote: A)Three people voted Misder: Deconduo, AKCT and Jackal. They all give me a scum vibe, but I can't believe that scum would vote together like that on the first day. At least one of them has to be scum though or they are all just bad at this game.
B)Deconduo's little back and forth with Palmar today was interesting. Deconduo calling Palmar bad at scum hunting is pretty funny imo. Deconduo blamed Palmar for Misder's death, but Decon was the one with the vote on Misder. Pretty contradictory. Palmar is still null to me right now although Palmar's read on Misder was correct and Decon's read was wrong, as I have said in previous posts. I am still leaning towards Decon being scum. He is redirecting blame on to others when he should accept responsibility.
C)Jackal has posted no substance at all. His reaction to the Misder lynch was over done. He has buddied/defended Decon which I find scummy. @Jackal: I would like to see some actual scum hunting come from you. Anything at all really, that isn't filler
D)A Killer Cuppa Tea uses being drunk as an excuse for pretty much everything. Also AKCT thought Probulous was mafia which is a pretty bad read. Right now I think AKCT is just a ignorant townie.
E)Sandroba will by far be the easy lynch tomorrow and maybe rightly so. Posts one line content and filler. I don't agree with Sandroba's read on TheToast as of now. TheToast is null to me at the moment. I feel as though Sandroba might be too easy of a lynch. If Sandroba is mafia, then why lurk and post crap and be sure to get lynched. Does Sandroba just not care about the game? Maybe just a bored vanilla townie? A) We can all see who voted Misder. Saying that at least one of them has to be scum? A terrible assumption. 3 out of 13 people (not including Misder himself). And at least one of them has to be scum? Hardly. Misder was town. People voting him are stupid or mafia/skB) Summarizes Deconduo and Palmar's chat for us. Ends with a slightly weaker read on Dec. Now he's only "leaning towards Decon being scum". What happened there? I was always leaning towards Decon being scum. I don't understand your implication.C) Calls Jackal out for not posting much. Fluff. Yeah definite fluff. Trying to get someone to be more active, help scumhunt and all that jazz. /sarcasmD) More fluff about AKCT Honestly this analysis on AKCT holds the same weight as people's read on Sandroba. Sandroba says he is too busy to post. AKCT says he is too drunk to post or post anything coherent. Maybe scum is playing the afk/lurk/not care game.E)Now this is very interesting. Agrees that Sandroba is the easy lynch. Agrees that he's been posting nothing. Disagrees with Sandroba's read (sounds familiar to the Decon case). Then spends 4 sentences convincing himself that Sandroba is a bored vanilla townie? Not looking so good given Sandroba flipped scum.I am not infallible. Honestly though I would be raging pretty hard if I were mafia this game, because Sandroba played horribly.Next up we see Paper claim that he thinks Sandroba is SK and is claiming a fake hit. Show nested quote +On March 05 2012 08:37 Paperscraps wrote: Ok so Sandroba claims vet or saved by medic. Why would Sandroba have been targeted as all last night? I don't think a medic would have been on Sandroba either. Thus that leaves the vet claim. Honestly I think Sandroba is SK that is claiming a fake hit. Then, 9 hours later, his opinion is changed. Show nested quote +On March 05 2012 17:35 Paperscraps wrote: Deconduo, TheToast, and Jackal are all better lynches. I don't know if we should lynch Sandroba yet, due to the hit claim. Sandroba is on ice though and needs to start contributing as do a lot of other players. And finally, this beauty: Show nested quote +On March 06 2012 05:02 Paperscraps wrote:On March 06 2012 01:06 sandroba wrote: I'm busy as fuck right now and I'm already working towards being replaced. I'm veteran. I got shot last night. That's all the info I have good luck. If you aren't even going to try, then you are going to get lynched. ##Unvote##Vote Sandroba
Side note: TheToast is scum. Followed by this: Show nested quote +On March 06 2012 05:27 Paperscraps wrote: Slinging unsupported accusations is what I do! Have you been playing this game? Oh, and this: Show nested quote +On March 06 2012 09:22 Paperscraps wrote: Hmmmm, my gut tells me that Sandroba is vet, but logic dictates that Sandroba is mafia/SK. This bandwagon on Sandroba went up pretty darn fast. But, alas Sandroba hasn't taken his vote off of AKCT and not putting up a fight at all.
This lynch on Sandroba doesn't feel right. I feel if I change my vote though, people will think that scummy.
Only one person died last night. Something doesn't fit here.
Going to change my vote anyways. Back to my "tunnel" on Deconduo, who has been coasting.
##Unvote
##Vote: Deconduo
Inb4 people say I am scum trying to make myself look townie "if" Sandroba flips vet. To recap, first he states Sandroba is an SK with a fake claim. Then, he states Sandroba is not worth lynching. Then, he is worth lynching (after votes are 4-2 Sandroba over Bluelightz, with a single vote on Pandain, AKCT, Adam and his own on Dec). Then, the "lynch on Sandroba doesn't feel right". The bandwagon on Sandroba went up very quickly and Sandroba was very scummy, that it was almost too easy. Like seriously I called it the night before how easy it would be to lynch Sandroba. So, I second guess myself and look bad. Not voting with the majoity doesn't make me scum. If I were scum, I would have just bussed Sandroba to make myself look town. See the contrast here? Scum obviously bussed Sandroba.Now, you should all compare Paperscraps' posting to his previous games where he was town. The contrast is frightening. Look at my last game in werewolves mafia. I have played the same. You are basing your meta off my game in newbie mafia, I don't play like that anymore with big long analytic posts, because they are unnecessary and anyone can contort peoples words to whatever they like. Just as you have done above.There we have such great gems as: Show nested quote +On January 27 2012 18:38 Paperscraps wrote: I just want to clarify that I am not taking the lynch lightly. Rash decisions and shotgun voting are a bad idea. Honestly we don't have much to go on yet for the D1 lynch. Why am I the one stalling when the majority of the town hasn't voted yet either? By your logic they should all be scum as well for "stalling".
I am not waiting to vote. My mind is still changing. Just because I don't vote and unvote every other post doesn't make timid.
I will vote when I am ready to vote, not before. Show nested quote +On January 27 2012 19:27 Paperscraps wrote: I meant this
*Being 100% sure of anything is impossible for a townie during N1. And he can be reasoned with and isn't afraid to change is vote: Show nested quote +On January 29 2012 04:42 Paperscraps wrote:##Unvote: Palmar##Vote: PrplhzTwo reasons for my change here. 1. My read on Palmar is neutral, by voting him up earlier I was hoping to get him to be more constructive and reasonable. This doesn't look likely now. I don't know all the meta everyone else knows about Palmar, but I think this can be a good thing. I can be more objective about my reads on him in the future. 2. Prplhz voted up wherebugsgo and then just left. No reason at all. On January 28 2012 01:06 prplhz wrote: I need to go shopping now but I'll write something when I get back.
##Vote: wherebugsgo If you say you are going to do something, then follow through. Accountability! Finally, he has the ability to perform good analysis: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=299955¤tpage=46#911Does this look like the same Paperscraps? It certainly doesn't to me. Let me bring up some points to you. 1. I have rolled town every game in tl mafia, thus you have no scum play to read. 2. You are using proof by contradiction off my town meta to call me scum. My town play has been evolving since newbie mafia, so this isn't valid. 3. I have played pretty similar to my last game in werewolves mafia, where my reads were decent when it came to finding scum. If you want to use meta to read me then use that.And THAT is why Paperscraps is scum, and should be lynched tomorrow.
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On March 06 2012 09:41 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2012 18:25 deconduo wrote:Why would he be worried about getting shot if he knew he had a medic to save him? In fact, I think SK is far far more likely as they would have the most to lose by getting shot; losing their night life. A mafia with a medic to back them up is basically immune to night hits, so shouldn't be worried at all. Show nested quote +On March 06 2012 07:52 deconduo wrote: I agree that he isn't scum, but he's almost certainly SK. We're better off lynching him now, rather than letting him get another shot off. Paper, decon doesn't read as scum to me. Your case was that he was pushing bad cases. Well when it was clear they weren't happening (me) he dropped it. That could be scum or town. Misder disappeared and never responded to anything so it would be monumentally stupid of decon to remove his vote without something to explain it. I mean if Misder could get off by just not saying anything then we would never lynch mafia. He followed through with his case and was wrong. At least he was clear on his intention to lynch Misder. Compare that with Toast's actions. He chose to not to vote for his "SK" and let a townie swing. His actions are far more scummy than decon. Sandroba has been actively useless (is there such a thing?). He is around and posts enough to avoid the modkill but doesn't bother to add anything of use. Is there anything more to your case than his bad reads?
1. Decon's read on Misder was wrong. Probulous he called you scum as well. Was he wrong in that? 2. Decon says making lists are pointless, claiming they are filler. I disagree 3. Decon's reaction to me calling him scum was bad. He over reacted. I find this scummy. 4. Decon's reaction to Misder flipping scum was bad. He wasn't remorseful about it. 5. Decon also rages at Sandroba for being useless this game, saying a vig should shoot Sandroba. There is merit here for both town and mafia play. 6. Decon has been coasting the past two days. Posting filler, no scum hunting, not very town. 7. Decon votes up Sandroba, calling him "almost certainly SK". There is merit here for both town and mafia play once again.
It seems like everyone thinks Decon is town except for me, so I could very well be wrong. I will be objective about this and look into the filters of others I think are scummy.
inb4 "you are backpedaling scum"
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Also on side note: Since Sandroba flipped mafia. What does everyone think of the hit claim?
1. The hit claim was fake. 2. The hit was real and mafia/town medic saved Sandroba?
There is a lot of wifom here. Thinking about this could help determine if there is an SK or not.
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There's really no way to know which it is until morning.
Even then, there's situations where it could be ambiguous.
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Iceland22590 Posts
Adam, why did you disagree with me? Do you think I'm dumb?
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Nope, not in the slightest. I disagreed with you because I thought you might be scum.
I wanted to see your reaction and get a better grip on what was actually happening.
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Iceland22590 Posts
do you think I'm scum now?
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On March 06 2012 15:12 Adam4167 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2012 12:34 Jackal58 wrote:On March 06 2012 12:06 Adam4167 wrote: Town Adam does as he pleases, regadless of what people think of him.
Town Adam is also developing a habit of defending mafia. Really need to work on that. As it should be. I knew GMarshall. You sir are no GMarshall. Whats with the GMarshall comment? Even though I have massive respect for him, I was never trying to be him?? I don't remember the game but GMarshall defended almost every scum that got lynched. As a townie. Was quite funny after the fact.
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On March 06 2012 23:08 Palmar wrote: do you think I'm scum now? I think you're 3rd party.
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Iceland22590 Posts
On March 06 2012 23:12 Jackal58 wrote:I think you're 3rd party.
Of course you do!
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On March 06 2012 23:08 Palmar wrote: do you think I'm scum now?
No.
Its not out of the realm of possibility that you knew sandroba was going to be useless and bused him, but I think looking elsewhere right now is a better usage of my time.
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Wow Snarfs with some nice analysis. Paper's scum hunting this game has really been pretty lackluster so far this game. I don't know that makes him scum, but definitely a reason to keep an eye on him.
This caught my eye though:
On March 06 2012 21:04 Paperscraps wrote: Also on side note: Since Sandroba flipped mafia. What does everyone think of the hit claim?
1. The hit claim was fake. 2. The hit was real and mafia/town medic saved Sandroba?
There is a lot of wifom here. Thinking about this could help determine if there is an SK or not.
It's interesting that you are the one who asked this question, given your last minute vote change day 2.
But let's set that aside for a minute and address this question. Two possibilities here, the hit on Sandro was real, or the hit on Sandro was made up BS. Let's assume:
The hit on Sandro was real: In this case we either have a vig or an SK. In the case of a vig, I would think they would have claimed by now. After a vig uses their shot they are basically not really a danger to scum anymore, other than being a confirmed townie. (in NMM 1 prphlz made it all the way to the end of the game after claiming vig) So really, there isn't much good reason for a vig to not to claim, especially in a circumstance where a claim could have really helped determine a players alignment and determine if there is an SK in this game.
If the hit was real, I think the most likely circumstance is an SK. Let's assume that the SK hit Sandro and a medic protected him. From the point of view of the SK, Sandro's vet claim would have probably seemed decently legit. This makes me wonder about the people who made passionate strange defenses of Sandro Day 2 (after all the SK would want to keep town around and kill mafia). In this theorectical situation the people who come out looking SK-ish are Jackle and Paperscraps (that's where I tie this in with my previous point about Paper being the one to ask this question) for their aversion to voting Sandro. Neither provided very good reasoning for not voting Sandro, could have been they believed the vet claim. The other person that I would have to give a big FOS to in this situation would be Pandain, his bizzare defense of Sandro then flip-flop seems really strange. Maybe he also had good reason to believe Sandro's claim?
The hit on Sandro was fake: If the hit was fake, SK could still exist (shot stacked with mafia shot on RG?). But this seems less likely, RG basically fake claimed blue and alluded that he was going to hit sandro night 1. From the POV of the SK, this would be a good thing. I just don't see why the SK would have a reason to hit RG, now that we know for sure Sandro wasn't the SK. So, more than likely if Sandro's claim is fake there is no SK.
I happen to have my doubts that mafia would risk fake claiming a hit, but Sandro's play this game has been so weird I suppose it's a distinct possibility. In this case that it was fake, there's really not much that tells us. If we can later prove somehow that the hit was fake then FOS should probably go on the people that were pushing really hard to find the SK, probably scum who were working with Sandro to drum up some fake SK lynches. The problem is, if there is a Mafia vig or if the SK decides to not kill night 2, this could be almost difficult to prove.
So if a town Vig took a shot on Sandro, that could prove there is no SK. I highly doubt SK would choose not to kill night 1 given how easily it could be passed off as a vig hit and the difficulty the SK faces in winning this game. So if there's a vig who did take a shot on Sandro Night 1 and we see two kills tonight, role claim!!! as that would prove there is a Mafia vig and stop us from wasting time looking for an SK.
Other than that, I think it's wise to proceed as if Sandro's claim was real. If it was, this could potentially lead us to the SK given what I said above. I'm not suggesting we lynch anyone based on Sandro's info (that would be stupid), but it could lead us in the right direction. If he was lying, then we go in the wrong direction for a bit. But if he was telling the truth we could use it to identify the SK.
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Thanks for responding Paper. I'll try to clarify myself in response to your questions/statements.
"Usual reasoning". Can you be more clear on what you think this is?
Are you trying to imply that my read came solely from the Palmar/Deconduo exchange? By usual reasoning, I am referring to previous games where you've actually provided good reasons for going after someone. Whether you're right or wrong makes no difference, it is in town's best interest for people to back up their votes with good reasoning so that we can pull the bullshit away from the truth. If you're not going to back up your vote with good, logical reasoning, or at least a decent attempt at it, then I can only assume that you don't have a good reason and therefore are scum. I am not implying, I am inferring. I am inferring that because of what I just wrote: You hadn't provided good reasons for your vote. If you still think your reasons for voting Deconduo the first time, and then reaffirming your vote were good, then we will have to agree to disagree.
You are using the same meta on me in two different ways. You are saying that my posting makes me town, because that is how I played in werewolves mafia. Then you say that my posting makes me scum, because it differs from my posting in my newbie mafia game. I have been town in every mafia game I have played on teamliquid so far. I did not think werewolves was a good game to study because it utilized IRC a lot. Much of the discussion for that game appeared to have taken place outside of the forum. Also, I do not say anywhere that this post makes you town, nor do I compare it to werewolves mafia. You are putting words in my mouth in an attempt to either discredit me or make yourself look better. Focus on what I actually say.
So how do we know anyone is anything when we are town? Certain towntells are obvious and Deconduo is either missing them or over looking them. Deconduo's response is loaded, because Deconduo is saying that the only way I can know his reads are bad is if I am scum. I could use this argument against you right now, saying that you read is horrible, because you think I am scum, when I am town. Just because his reads were on other people, doesn't mean I can't deem them bad. I can't know with 100% certainty if they are wrong or not, but mafia is a game of induction and deduction. We know from logic and reasoning as you say at the end of this paragraph. Your argument lacked both and if you were to use the same argument against me, it would again lack both. To clarify, this is good logic: Deconduo thinks Probulous and Misder are scum Probulous and Misder are both town (assuming Prob at this point) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Therefore, Deconduo's reasoning for thinking Probulous and Misder are scum is bad
This is not good logic: Deconduo's reasoning for thinking Probulous and Misder are scum is bad ----------------------------------------------------- Therefore, Deconduo is scum
You mentioned deduction. Show me how you made this argument. I've taken logic and philosophy courses, I'll be happy to admit that I'm wrong when you show me what I'm missing.
Quality > quantity. Bluelightz says a lot of things, but there is really no substance behind anything he says. I agree, Bluelightz is lacking in substance. Hard to argue against that. What I'm focusing on though is that your posts have lacked substance while trying to appear to have substance.
Not sure, what you are trying to get at here. You are saying that my voting of Decon is unjustified. Then Decon foses me with very little reasoning and that isn't OMGUS? Double standard. No comment here. I agree, Decon FoSing you was silly.
Deconduo's read coupled with his reaction to my fos is what made me think he is scum
LOL. Ok let me explain something to you here. rg was soft claiming Vig pretty hard. Why would someone do this? THEY WANT TO GET SHOT. Ok, so now that we all understand that, we have to try and decipher if the claim seems legit or not. rg was being pretty obvious and blunt about it. My assumption was that he was either a Vet or vanilla townie trying to take one for the team. How can I help rg get shot then? Try and make people believe that I think he is a real vig. (hint hint I really didn't think this) Thus, rg's plan worked out perfectly. I may have even helped. I don't think he was soft claiming. I think he was slapping us in the face with the fact that he had killing power. Why would he do this if he was actually a vig? I don't think anyone would think he's actually a vig at that point. But you know who would want to make sure? Mafia.
Misder was town. People voting him are stupid or mafia/sk Misder was contributing nothing and could easily have garnered 3 out of 13 votes without any of them being Mafia. Why would you discount the possibility that there were no mafia on him?
I was always leaning towards Decon being scum. I don't understand your implication. My implication was this: First you are certain Decon is scum. Now you are only leaning towards him being scum. If this is false, please correct me.
Yeah definite fluff. Trying to get someone to be more active, help scumhunt and all that jazz. /sarcasm I don't think you can count calling out inactive people as a contribution either way.
Honestly this analysis on AKCT holds the same weight as people's read on Sandroba. Sandroba says he is too busy to post. AKCT says he is too drunk to post or post anything coherent. Maybe scum is playing the afk/lurk/not care game. This was not an analysis. This was stating the obvious on someone you think is town. This was fluff.
Me:
E)Now this is very interesting. Agrees that Sandroba is the easy lynch. Agrees that he's been posting nothing. Disagrees with Sandroba's read (sounds familiar to the Decon case). Then spends 4 sentences convincing himself that Sandroba is a bored vanilla townie? Not looking so good given Sandroba flipped scum. You:
I am not infallible. Honestly though I would be raging pretty hard if I were mafia this game, because Sandroba played horribly. I would like to hear more about why you still thought Decon was a better vote than Sandroba day 1. Surely you thought that Misder was town based on Deconduo's horrible read. That gave you the chance at the end of Day 1 of lynching Sandroba instead. My problem here is that if Sandroba has bad reads and is posting nothing, you assume he's a bored townie. If Decon has bad reads and is posting nothing, you assume he's scum. I can't make a good argument against you for why you left your vote on Deconduo instead of Sandroba without making any assumptions; but it would certainly help your case if you could explain it to me (preferably without taking it personally, but that's up to you).
The bandwagon on Sandroba went up very quickly and Sandroba was very scummy, that it was almost too easy. Like seriously I called it the night before how easy it would be to lynch Sandroba. So, I second guess myself and look bad. Not voting with the majoity doesn't make me scum. If I were scum, I would have just bussed Sandroba to make myself look town. See the contrast here? Scum obviously bussed Sandroba. Or maybe you would switch your vote so that later you can say that if you were scum, you would have just bussed Sandroba to make yourself look town. I don't know that I can argue with you here, scum could do either, always looking to get one step ahead of town in situations like this.
Look at my last game in werewolves mafia. I have played the same. You are basing your meta off my game in newbie mafia, I don't play like that anymore with big long analytic posts, because they are unnecessary and anyone can contort peoples words to whatever they like. Just as you have done above. I'll reiterate that much of werewolves appeared to be played in IRC. Also, I'll give you that you don't make big long analytic posts anymore. That's fine. But for the sake of the town, please don't stop giving good, logical reasoning for your votes! If you really are town, then you've certainly wasted a lot of my time by acting scummy.
What happened to this Paperscraps?
On January 27 2012 18:38 Paperscraps wrote: I just want to clarify that I am not taking the lynch lightly. Rash decisions and shotgun voting are a bad idea. Honestly we don't have much to go on yet for the D1 lynch. Why am I the one stalling when the majority of the town hasn't voted yet either? By your logic they should all be scum as well for "stalling".
I am not waiting to vote. My mind is still changing. Just because I don't vote and unvote every other post doesn't make timid.
I will vote when I am ready to vote, not before.
Or this one?
On January 27 2012 19:27 Paperscraps wrote: I meant this
*Being 100% sure of anything is impossible for a townie during N1.
Or this one?
On January 29 2012 04:42 Paperscraps wrote:##Unvote: Palmar##Vote: PrplhzTwo reasons for my change here. 1. My read on Palmar is neutral, by voting him up earlier I was hoping to get him to be more constructive and reasonable. This doesn't look likely now. I don't know all the meta everyone else knows about Palmar, but I think this can be a good thing. I can be more objective about my reads on him in the future. 2. Prplhz voted up wherebugsgo and then just left. No reason at all. Show nested quote +On January 28 2012 01:06 prplhz wrote: I need to go shopping now but I'll write something when I get back.
##Vote: wherebugsgo If you say you are going to do something, then follow through. Accountability!
Just because you don't make big long analytic posts anymore doesn't mean you're throwing logic and reasoning completely out the window. Only scum would do that because they really have no logic or reasoning to back their suspicions.
Let me bring up some points to you. 1. I have rolled town every game in tl mafia, thus you have no scum play to read. 2. You are using proof by contradiction off my town meta to call me scum. My town play has been evolving since newbie mafia, so this isn't valid. 3. I have played pretty similar to my last game in werewolves mafia, where my reads were decent when it came to finding scum. If you want to use meta to read me then use that. If this is your town play "evolving" then you should really reconsider what your end goal is.
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On March 07 2012 04:04 Snarfs wrote: By usual reasoning, I am referring to previous games where you've actually provided good reasons for going after someone. Whether you're right or wrong makes no difference, it is in town's best interest for people to back up their votes with good reasoning so that we can pull the bullshit away from the truth. If you're not going to back up your vote with good, logical reasoning, or at least a decent attempt at it, then I can only assume that you don't have a good reason and therefore are scum.
This is your opinion. I believe my reasons are good/logical. You disagree, end of story.
I am not implying, I am inferring. I am inferring that because of what I just wrote: You hadn't provided good reasons for your vote. If you still think your reasons for voting Deconduo the first time, and then reaffirming your vote were good, then we will have to agree to disagree.
I have restated my reasons for Deconduo being scum.
I did not think werewolves was a good game to study because it utilized IRC a lot. Much of the discussion for that game appeared to have taken place outside of the forum. Also, I do not say anywhere that this post makes you town, nor do I compare it to werewolves mafia. You are putting words in my mouth in an attempt to either discredit me or make yourself look better. Focus on what I actually say.
You said that I was playing towards my town meta with the way I was posting. I backed up my votes with reasoning, so I don't see what the problem is? You speculate I was trying to hop on a wagon, but have no way of proving this. The post was hypocritical and ironic, because you were doing the same thing to me. You voted me up saying my reasons for Deconduo being scum were bad, implying I read him wrong.
Also you can't discount werewolves, because of IRC. If you are going to use meta to read me, you have to use it all. Here are the IRC logs for you. http://www.palmar.org/mafia/ You can filter me by hitting search at the bottom. I just searched my name "Paperscraps" (case sensitive). It isn't that much to read at all. I think I contributed as much in that thread as I did in IRC. I talked with Palmar and Bluelightz most in PMs. You can ask them if there is any relevant meta to be gained from that.
We know from logic and reasoning as you say at the end of this paragraph. Your argument lacked both and if you were to use the same argument against me, it would again lack both. To clarify, this is good logic: Deconduo thinks Probulous and Misder are scum Probulous and Misder are both town (assuming Prob at this point) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Therefore, Deconduo's reasoning for thinking Probulous and Misder are scum is bad
This is not good logic: Deconduo's reasoning for thinking Probulous and Misder are scum is bad ----------------------------------------------------- Therefore, Deconduo is scum
You mentioned deduction. Show me how you made this argument. I've taken logic and philosophy courses, I'll be happy to admit that I'm wrong when you show me what I'm missing.
Day 1 is mostly inductive reasoning. You can't be 100% sure of anything. I used inductive logic based on Deconduo's reads and reactions to read him as scum. I used my reads on others as well to deduce that Deconduo seemed the most scummy out of everyone.
I don't think he was soft claiming. I think he was slapping us in the face with the fact that he had killing power. Why would he do this if he was actually a vig? I don't think anyone would think he's actually a vig at that point. But you know who would want to make sure? Mafia.
I disagree here. When you soft claim a power role like rg did, the first thing that comes to mind is that he is fake. Now you can either stop there or wonder if rg knows that is what others will think of him. If rg knows that claiming in this way will make others think he is fake, then wouldn't be smart, albeit risky, to claim this way as an actual power role? Now mafia has to consider if rg is fake claiming or fake fake claiming or fake fake fake claiming, etc...(ad infinitum) We call this a regress argument. It was a gamble, but I asked him that question because I thought he was fake and wanted others to think he was real.
Misder was contributing nothing and could easily have garnered 3 out of 13 votes without any of them being Mafia. Why would you discount the possibility that there were no mafia on him?
Misder seemed town to me. You are right, no mafia could have voted him, but I think that unlikely.
My implication was this: First you are certain Decon is scum. Now you are only leaning towards him being scum. If this is false, please correct me.
I guess my word choice wasn't the best here. I have always been leaning as Decon being scum. I am not 100% certain. When trying to persuade others though, you want to sound sure of yourself and not wishywashy. Hence, my word choice.
I don't think you can count calling out inactive people as a contribution either way.
This is your opinion/view.
I would like to hear more about why you still thought Decon was a better vote than Sandroba day 1. Surely you thought that Misder was town based on Deconduo's horrible read. That gave you the chance at the end of Day 1 of lynching Sandroba instead. My problem here is that if Sandroba has bad reads and is posting nothing, you assume he's a bored townie. If Decon has bad reads and is posting nothing, you assume he's scum. I can't make a good argument against you for why you left your vote on Deconduo instead of Sandroba without making any assumptions; but it would certainly help your case if you could explain it to me (preferably without taking it personally, but that's up to you).
Sandroba seemed more town to me day 1 when he switched his vote from Pandain to TheToast. Deconduo stayed with the vote on Misder and reacted poorly to my FoS. I wasn't around duing the last hours before the day ended to change my vbote to save Misder. I have posted my reasons for my FoS on Deconduo.
Or maybe you would switch your vote so that later you can say that if you were scum, you would have just bussed Sandroba to make yourself look town. I don't know that I can argue with you here, scum could do either, always looking to get one step ahead of town in situations like this.
Mafia bussing makes much more sense, then going against the majority and standing out. Going against the majority casts suspicion on me and mafia doesn't like to be in the spot light like that. I agree this point can't really be argued though. That is just my take on it.
I'll reiterate that much of werewolves appeared to be played in IRC. Also, I'll give you that you don't make big long analytic posts anymore. That's fine. But for the sake of the town, please don't stop giving good, logical reasoning for your votes! If you really are town, then you've certainly wasted a lot of my time by acting scummy.
I haven't been scummy at all. No one has really presented a case on my except for you. I will not be lynched tomorrow. Thus I am doing my job as town. The best scum hunters usually seem scummy themselves.
What happened to this Paperscraps? Show nested quote +On January 27 2012 18:38 Paperscraps wrote: I just want to clarify that I am not taking the lynch lightly. Rash decisions and shotgun voting are a bad idea. Honestly we don't have much to go on yet for the D1 lynch. Why am I the one stalling when the majority of the town hasn't voted yet either? By your logic they should all be scum as well for "stalling".
I am not waiting to vote. My mind is still changing. Just because I don't vote and unvote every other post doesn't make timid.
I will vote when I am ready to vote, not before. Or this one? Show nested quote +On January 27 2012 19:27 Paperscraps wrote: I meant this
*Being 100% sure of anything is impossible for a townie during N1. Or this one? Show nested quote +On January 29 2012 04:42 Paperscraps wrote:##Unvote: Palmar##Vote: PrplhzTwo reasons for my change here. 1. My read on Palmar is neutral, by voting him up earlier I was hoping to get him to be more constructive and reasonable. This doesn't look likely now. I don't know all the meta everyone else knows about Palmar, but I think this can be a good thing. I can be more objective about my reads on him in the future. 2. Prplhz voted up wherebugsgo and then just left. No reason at all. On January 28 2012 01:06 prplhz wrote: I need to go shopping now but I'll write something when I get back.
##Vote: wherebugsgo If you say you are going to do something, then follow through. Accountability!
He is still here. You are just using certain parts of meta on me to further your skewed view.
Just because you don't make big long analytic posts anymore doesn't mean you're throwing logic and reasoning completely out the window. Only scum would do that because they really have no logic or reasoning to back their suspicions.
I posted valid reasons for my FoS on Deconduo.
If this is your town play "evolving" then you should really reconsider what your end goal is.
My end goal is to find scum and lynch them.
TLDR: One townie calls another townie scum. They argue back and forth and nothing is gained.
This is the main reason I don't post big huge analytic posts. I did that in my first game against CatsNHats, who I thought was scum and made pretty convincing cases against him. CatsNHats was actually town and thus I was blind to the real mafia,Cephiro, who I thought was town. Basically CatsNHats and I tunneled each other and argued constantly losing the game for town. This is what is happening here. Mafia is sitting back, watching two townies rip each other apart. But wait there is a difference this time! I think Snarfs is town and won't tunnel him back, so we have a chance!
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On March 06 2012 20:58 Paperscraps wrote: 1. Decon's read on Misder was wrong. Probulous he called you scum as well. Was he wrong in that? 2. Decon says making lists are pointless, claiming they are filler. I disagree 3. Decon's reaction to me calling him scum was bad. He over reacted. I find this scummy. 4. Decon's reaction to Misder flipping scum was bad. He wasn't remorseful about it. 5. Decon also rages at Sandroba for being useless this game, saying a vig should shoot Sandroba. There is merit here for both town and mafia play. 6. Decon has been coasting the past two days. Posting filler, no scum hunting, not very town. 7. Decon votes up Sandroba, calling him "almost certainly SK". There is merit here for both town and mafia play once again.
I don't think you thought your case through very well. You have seven points all of which could come from a town or mafia agenda. What is with the bolded bit?
As for this
On March 06 2012 21:04 Paperscraps wrote: Also on side note: Since Sandroba flipped mafia. What does everyone think of the hit claim? 1. The hit claim was fake. 2. The hit was real and mafia/town medic saved Sandroba?
I've explained my reasoning why I think the shot was real. Why would a mafia sandroba claim veteran with such a weak claim? If he wanted to get credit for it he would have celebrated the shot, make it clear to everyone he was targeted. Instead he responds to something else and then casually mentions the fact. It makes sense that he was shot given his reaction to it. This means scum have a medic and we have a SK. Vig would have claimed by now.
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On March 06 2012 15:55 Adam4167 wrote: I don't push cases at night time, unless its so close to the deadline that mafia cant shoot me for it.
On March 06 2012 21:21 Adam4167 wrote: There's really no way to know which it is until morning. Even then, there's situations where it could be ambiguous. Why you such a downer this game Adam? I don't think I have ever seen someone get shot for posting at night. All you are doing is refusing to contribute behind a weak excuse. The sandoba shot is the one thing we have right now that can help provide some useful information. Of course the conclusions have to be tentative but we can still work it out based on his posting. I think my logic is clear and fairly robust. Besides if there was one thing you could comment on that would surely not get you shot it would be the dead guy. You're avoiding posting, why?
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On March 07 2012 06:46 Probulous wrote:As for this Show nested quote +On March 06 2012 21:04 Paperscraps wrote: Also on side note: Since Sandroba flipped mafia. What does everyone think of the hit claim? 1. The hit claim was fake. 2. The hit was real and mafia/town medic saved Sandroba? I've explained my reasoning why I think the shot was real. Why would a mafia sandroba claim veteran with such a weak claim? If he wanted to get credit for it he would have celebrated the shot, make it clear to everyone he was targeted. Instead he responds to something else and then casually mentions the fact. It makes sense that he was shot given his reaction to it. This means scum have a medic and we have a SK. Vig would have claimed by now.
Agreed about the vig.
The problem that we have is whatever happens Night 2 doesn't prove anything. Two kills could mean Mafia have a vig, only one kill could mean SK decided not to submit their night action. Second one seems unlikely, but it could potentially throw everyone off. If they did this we wouldn't know about the SK until Night 4, possibly Night 5 if they did a successful fake town vig claim. So figuring out the validity of Sandro's claim is pretty important. Again, if there's a vig that hit sandro day 1 you need to role claim.
While I agree with you, thing is Sandro's play was really weird this game. I don't know that we can assume anything, but as I said before, I think we should proceed under the assumption that Sandro's claim is true. If it's true, we get a good lead, if not then nothing happens (as long as we are smart and don't lynch anyone based only on his claim).
If Sandro's claim is true, and there is an SK; top people to question/track/watch should be Paper, and Jackal.
Jackal and Paper borth for their defense of sandro; if they thought he was a vet (since their shot didn't kill him) they may have seen this as an opportunity to get on the opposite side of a town lynch and make themselves look townish.
Pandain is the other person I have in mind for his vote reversal thing on Day 2, but as I think about it the whole fake blue claim thing doesn't seem like something the SK would do. If he did try to shoot Sandro night 1 and was unsuccessful, it doesn't stand to reason that he would need to divert attention from himself--he would be suspect #12 or #13 in that particular investigation. It does make sense for scum to do that to try to start a bandwagon or to take that risk to be confirmed town. But as for SK, I guess it doesn't make sense when he wouldn't be remotely suspected for the action.
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On March 06 2012 19:01 Bluelightz wrote: Nice flip ^^! Was at school for most of the day so couldnt post much. We should take a look at the people who wanted to derail the lynch. In my ideal world there are two possible things happening to you- You actually provide this analysis and it is useful
- You make a handsome throw rug
I'm clearing the floor to make room cause I think hell will freeze before I get useful information from you.
I love how you completely ignore this post
On March 06 2012 12:34 Probulous wrote:Final Scummy VotesSandroba - 83) bluelightz BluelightzShow nested quote +On March 06 2012 00:12 Bluelightz wrote: Alright, I'm voting sandroba, I believe his scum because he is useless and has not provided good content, his hit claim is interesting though. ##Vote: sandroba He needs to be splattered across the pavement, preferably across many pavements. You still haven't explained responded to my original case/s (1, 2) You are lurking and need to die.
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On March 07 2012 06:45 Paperscraps wrote: TLDR: One townie calls another townie scum. They argue back and forth and nothing is gained.
This is the main reason I don't post big huge analytic posts. I did that in my first game against CatsNHats, who I thought was scum and made pretty convincing cases against him. CatsNHats was actually town and thus I was blind to the real mafia,Cephiro, who I thought was town. Basically CatsNHats and I tunneled each other and argued constantly losing the game for town. This is what is happening here. Mafia is sitting back, watching two townies rip each other apart. But wait there is a difference this time! I think Snarfs is town and won't tunnel him back, so we have a chance! Meh, I don't think anything was lost here. I had fun typing it up if nothing else.
So which of these is the most scummy: Decon, Adam, Pandain, other?
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EBWOP: explained
I think I need a coffee. BRB
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On March 07 2012 06:46 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2012 20:58 Paperscraps wrote: 1. Decon's read on Misder was wrong. Probulous he called you scum as well. Was he wrong in that? 2. Decon says making lists are pointless, claiming they are filler. I disagree 3. Decon's reaction to me calling him scum was bad. He over reacted. I find this scummy. 4. Decon's reaction to Misder flipping scum was bad. He wasn't remorseful about it. 5. Decon also rages at Sandroba for being useless this game, saying a vig should shoot Sandroba. There is merit here for both town and mafia play. 6. Decon has been coasting the past two days. Posting filler, no scum hunting, not very town. 7. Decon votes up Sandroba, calling him "almost certainly SK". There is merit here for both town and mafia play once again. I don't think you thought your case through very well. You have seven points all of which could come from a town or mafia agenda. What is with the bolded bit?
I see now that some of points have an ambiguity to them. So I am reevaluating my FoS on Deconduo.
The bolded part is a question to you? Was Decon wrong in calling you scum?
On March 07 2012 06:46 Probulous wrote:As for this Show nested quote +On March 06 2012 21:04 Paperscraps wrote: Also on side note: Since Sandroba flipped mafia. What does everyone think of the hit claim? 1. The hit claim was fake. 2. The hit was real and mafia/town medic saved Sandroba? I've explained my reasoning why I think the shot was real. Why would a mafia sandroba claim veteran with such a weak claim? If he wanted to get credit for it he would have celebrated the shot, make it clear to everyone he was targeted. Instead he responds to something else and then casually mentions the fact. It makes sense that he was shot given his reaction to it. This means scum have a medic and we have a SK. Vig would have claimed by now.
I agree.
On March 07 2012 07:18 Snarfs wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 06:45 Paperscraps wrote: TLDR: One townie calls another townie scum. They argue back and forth and nothing is gained.
This is the main reason I don't post big huge analytic posts. I did that in my first game against CatsNHats, who I thought was scum and made pretty convincing cases against him. CatsNHats was actually town and thus I was blind to the real mafia,Cephiro, who I thought was town. Basically CatsNHats and I tunneled each other and argued constantly losing the game for town. This is what is happening here. Mafia is sitting back, watching two townies rip each other apart. But wait there is a difference this time! I think Snarfs is town and won't tunnel him back, so we have a chance! Meh, I don't think anything was lost here. I had fun typing it up if nothing else. So which of these is the most scummy: Decon, Adam, Pandain, other?
My top scum reads are TheToast, Jackal and Deconduo.
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On March 07 2012 07:32 Paperscraps wrote: The bolded part is a question to you? Was Decon wrong in calling you scum? Now that right there is a stupid question I have made it clear all game long that I am just your regular townie, which given my game history is a refreshing change. Decon being wrong does not make him scum.
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I find it hard to believe that Decon would be the first on Sandroba D2 if he was scum. Was it that obvious Sandroba was going down Day 2 even before the votes started?
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On March 07 2012 06:58 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2012 15:55 Adam4167 wrote: I don't push cases at night time, unless its so close to the deadline that mafia cant shoot me for it. Show nested quote +On March 06 2012 21:21 Adam4167 wrote: There's really no way to know which it is until morning. Even then, there's situations where it could be ambiguous. Why you such a downer this game Adam? I don't think I have ever seen someone get shot for posting at night. All you are doing is refusing to contribute behind a weak excuse. The sandoba shot is the one thing we have right now that can help provide some useful information. Of course the conclusions have to be tentative but we can still work it out based on his posting. I think my logic is clear and fairly robust. Besides if there was one thing you could comment on that would surely not get you shot it would be the dead guy. You're avoiding posting, why?
I said right at the beginning that I will only be contributing where I see it relevant, not just for the sake of it.
I disagree that we can get anything useful out of sandroba or his actions. It boils down to complete speculation as to his motives and mindset. As I have no idea what those are, trying to speculate setup from mafia motives and strategies is a complete waste of time.
I am not avoiding posting, I am avoiding irrelevant and speculative posts.
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@prob as soon as i can get on comp I'll reply to your case. Fucking hard to do it on an iPad.
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bluelightz I swear your as useless as Seal is to his team....
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Iceland22590 Posts
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Iceland22590 Posts
sometimes I just wanna cuddle
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Poll: ♦♣◘7○♠☻)♥omg i can vote (3) 75% 2 (1) 25% 1 (0) 0% 3 (0) 0% 4 total votes Your vote: ♦♣◘7○♠☻)♥ (Vote): 1 (Vote): 2 (Vote): 3 (Vote): omg i can vote
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On March 07 2012 09:05 Palmar wrote: I am a soft kitty Clearly this game is playing tricks on my mind.
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Iceland22590 Posts
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ROFL Snarfs on the ball
Palmar needs a hug but it is a long way to go for me. Can I send a hug through the internet or is that just weaksauce?
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I voted 2.
I like even numbers and being the only even prime, 2 has to get my vote.
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Palmar
Do you think that's a valid question Probulous? Do you honestly think I would scumslip?
you see, until you start making sense rgTS, I don't value your opinions.
I think that analysis is surprisingly bad deconduo. Why is it so bad? Can you explain that to me?
. For example, you're being massively dumb and saying LAL is stupid when it isn't (I'm not going to argue this, I'm right).
No clue about the rest really. Toast and Pandain and anyone else I might be forgetting, but if I forget you it's because your content has been worthless so far. So take it as an insult please.
Cause I want to lynch sandroba you dumbass. Don't be thick.
are you dumb? do you need obvious information spoonfed to you?
how the fuck would I know jackal?
What I'm pretty certain of is that he's not town.
No let's lynch Deconduo for being an asshole to me when I'm right and he's wrong.
Adam, why did you disagree with me? Do you think I'm dumb?
and my favorite
There is no sensible reason to disbelieve pandain's claim
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That's a big post, what's it say?
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On March 07 2012 08:35 Bluelightz wrote: @prob as soon as i can get on comp I'll reply to your case. Fucking hard to do it on an iPad.
On March 02 2012 10:19 Bluelightz wrote:I could see Pandain as scum, I'll explain later, I can't explain now cuz I got school work tho.
On March 04 2012 10:15 Bluelightz wrote: I was sleeping bro, I'm gonna get on my comp first though to explain it.
On March 05 2012 10:05 Bluelightz wrote: I'm here guys, but im at school so can't post most of what I want to post till maybe later.
I'm gonna unvote AKCT for now.
##Unvote: A Killer Cuppa Tea
On March 05 2012 12:35 Bluelightz wrote:Again no time wil post in like 2 hours maybe.
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United States5684 Posts
On March 07 2012 09:03 Pandain wrote: bluelightz I swear your as useless as Seal is to his team.... If you are referring to nshs.seal I will destroy you
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I see you have a full grasp of the quoting function. Whilst this is a useful skill to have it would be more beneficial if you made a point. If this continues you will be guilty of spamming which is highly ironic given your first post.
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On March 07 2012 09:31 Probulous wrote: I see you have a full grasp of the quoting function. Whilst this is a useful skill to have it would be more beneficial if you made a point. If this continues you will be guilty of spamming which is highly ironic given your first post.
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Ok I guess that was hypocritical, my bad. I still fail to see your point. Bluelightz always lurks he can't help it. Maybe it is an addiction or some kind of phobia but I have yet to see a game where he contributes. The difference here is that he has specific things to respond to that he is ignoring.
Palmar on the other hand can go from one liners to decent cases. He doesn't have a set style. As for your favourite quote of his
Should we just not believe any claims? I agree with his logic that there was no reason not to believe you. AKCT was suspicious and you made it clear you thought so before you claimed. It is far more likely that you were telling the truth than you were lying in an attempt to trap him. Turns out we were wrong but that doesn't make the logic bad.
Again, if you have a point, make it because right now you are just being annoying.
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Lol I was making fun of palmar for being a dick all the time, and bluelightz for always having to "i'll post later".
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See that is why you need to make your point clear. Didn't seem funny to me and I have a fucked up sense of humour. Whilst I have, I assume you still think Bluelightz is scum? Anyone else?
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Palmar is town or badass sk. Jackal COULD be SK but I'm leaning towards not. He's definitely not playing pro town.... bluelightz/adam/jackal one or more of them is mafia.
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On March 07 2012 09:59 Pandain wrote: Palmar is town or badass sk. Jackal COULD be SK but I'm leaning towards not. He's definitely not playing pro town.... bluelightz/adam/jackal one or more of them is mafia.
IMO
Adam > Bluelightz > Jackal
order of scumminess
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Prob to Bluelightz: Come out come out where-ever you are. I knowed you around cause I seed you posting elsewhere.
Bluelightz to Prob: ...
Prob to Bluelightz: *swings mighty hammer of the gods squishing him into sticky bloo goo*
Prob
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United States5684 Posts
Im in the car ffor an hour if wiggles isn't around I'll make post then don't go crazy
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On March 07 2012 11:30 Probulous wrote:Prob to Bluelightz: Come out come out where-ever you are. I knowed you around cause I seed you posting elsewhere. Bluelightz to Prob: ... Prob to Bluelightz: *swings mighty hammer of the gods squishing him into sticky bloo goo* Prob
Before anyone claims this is me implying Bluelightz is blue and I want to kill him, I would point out that his name is Bluelightz. Don't derp people, it's bad for your health. I am serious though, he posted in the Kaller game and has decided to avoid this thread. If he turns out to be town this game, than I will vote for him on Day 1 whenever we meet again. This shit is crazy.
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On March 07 2012 11:45 Mattchew wrote: Im in the car ffor an hour if wiggles isn't around I'll make post then don't go crazy
Pfft where is the commitment? I can't believe you haven't built yourself a hands-free voice recognition based dictation plugin for your car radio combined with a mobile wifi satellite to ensure we have our night post on time. It's just not good enough.
Yes I have no idea about technology stuff...
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Day post coming up in 10 minutes.
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Day 3: Bloodying the Waters The sharks followed lazily beneath the shadow of the SS Qatol. Over the last few days, they had been fed generously by the bodies that had fallen into the sea, and summarily into their jaws. Now, they waited patiently again for their next meal.
They were soon rewarded, as first the body of Jackal58, who had had his throat slit with a cutlass fell into the water, and was quickly devoured. Several hours later, Palmar followed him into the depths, with a pistol shot lodged in his brain. The sharks consumed him as well, and were dissapointed that no more corpses came to them before the sun rose.
Palmar the Watcher has been shot in the face! Jackal58 the Townie has had his throat slit!
Day 3 has begun! You have until 12 KST 48 hours from now to vote for the lynch!
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Well we're fucked
Bluelightz I am coming for you. You don't get by with your lurking and such nonsense anymore.
##vote Bluelightz
Adam, now that night is over and you are safe in your cosy little house, where is this analysis you were so scared of showing? You never even posted before the deadline which means your excuse of not wanting to die is just that, an excuse.
On a separate note, Vig anyone? If there is no claim we can be pretty sure there is a serial killer (2 KP). I can see a Vig shooting Jackal (maybe) but not Palmar. He was pretty clearly town after he pushed sandroba so early. Combined with the Sandroba claim I think we can be pretty sure there is a SK.
Is there anyone else here?
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On March 07 2012 12:02 Paperscraps wrote: I shot Jackal58.
Uhhh, I am Vigilante. Although I guess I used a knife on Jackal instead of a high-powered rifle.
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On March 07 2012 12:02 Paperscraps wrote: I shot Jackal58.
Why? I mean I know he was lurking and stuff but to shoot him on Night 2 is adventurous to say the least. Why didn't you claim your shot before the deadline?
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Because I like surprises!
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Yeah I don't like that. You were on the scummy list of a few people and so were unlikely to be shot overnight. There are plenty of others who you could have pushed to lynch today and saved your shot for tonight when you have more information. I wouldn't put it past you as scum to claim your shot as a vigilante shot and try to coast on that. I'll wait and see what others have to say because I was pretty convinced we have a SK. It lines up with sandroba's claim and just makes mores sense to me than you being a vig who shot Jackal. I'll keep an open mind for the moment.
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Knowing Palmar's role now from his posts I see the following
Option 1 - Night 1 he watched someone and got nothing. His first reaction after the night is to say to Decon "I will make sure you die this game." But then he straight up votes for AKCT after Pandain's claim and goes on to vote for Sandroba. Now given RG was shot by mafia (I think we all agree on that at least) if he watched RG, then he would have no reason to believe Pandain's claim unless AKCT was the shooter. If ACKT was the shooter then he wouldn't have changed his vote. So I don't think he watched RG night 1. He also didn't push anyone really hard except sandroba.
Option 2 - He watched sandroba and saw no hit Now if we assume he was watching sandroba his insistence on lynching sandroba would make sense if he knew that sandroba was lying. But then again he didn't push for sandroba's lynch very hard. This in particular
yeah I'm still fine with killing sandroba. Pandain is dumb, but he's probably town. Doesn't say anything about AKCT's alignment really. But hey who cares. ##Vote Sandroba doesn't read like someone convinced 100% of sandroba's guilt. Especially not a Palmar. So I don't think he watched sandroba. If he did he would either have seen who shot him (real claim) or he would have pushed for the sandroba lynch harder (fake claim).
Maybe I am WIFOMing myself but I think this is useful information. Anyone else have any ideas about this.
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this seems set up. Claim immediately after, because you like "suprises?" When your already under suspicion? Yeah, no.
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On March 07 2012 12:48 Pandain wrote: this seems set up. Claim immediately after, because you like "suprises?" When your already under suspicion? Yeah, no.
That was my thinking too. If you want to claim a shot as vig especially if you are under suspicion you do it just before the deadline. That way there is no doubt about your shot. 2 minutes after the deadline is just too late. That being said if this was a gambit by mafia they would know who they were going to shoot and so could claim in the same manner. Unfortunately this tells us nothing about his alignment.
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On March 07 2012 12:34 Pandain wrote: #vote Paperscraps Awful quick vote there against a guy who's claiming blue. We have 2 days to figure out if he's lying or not, we should use it.
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I think Adam4167 and Paperscraps are both on the mafia team. Both of them defended sandroba in one way or another. They have hardly communicated in thread and neither have given an opinion on the other. When I called Adam for his scummy question this is what Paper wrote
No I gather you are wondering that if maybe mafia hit and roleblocked rg, then Adam's question would show some concern. We have know way of knowing that. Also Adam has been towntelling recently. I don't think he is scum. But he never gives us any indication of why Adam is town. What is towntelling about his behaviour? He completely dismisses my point without actually explaining why. It took Pandain to do that.
Then his scummy claim of the Jackal shot rings false to me. He never outlines a case on Jackal other than he was lurking. Jackal lurks a lot and he could have saved his shot for at least another night. It is way too risky a kill for a Vig who was never going to get shot. It doesn't make sense from a town Paperscraps point of view. There are other lurkers including Bluelightz who look far worse but he chooses to shoot the veteran? From scum point of view Jackal is liability to keep around better to shoot him and claim the shot. This way Paper might be believed as a Vig and Jackal dies. In addition attention is drawn away from the Jackal kill itself.
As for Adam he is trying really hard not to contribute but seem like he is. The only case he has put together has been on Palmar. What is also interesting but somewhat prone to WIFOM is that he targeted Palmar who is now dead. Jackal targeted him and is also now dead. This ties in with Paper taking credit for the shot. It draws attention away from Adam. He was not surprised that RG flipped green (implying he didn't believe his claims) but he wasn't surprised that he was shot. This is contradictory because if you don't believe his claims you would not expect him to be shot. He has never mentioned Paperscraps despite the abundance of people who have. Their only direct communication was about sandroba being a SK.
All of this is despite their terrible voting. Adam's wishy-washy switch to sandroba at the last minute which flatly contradicts his reasoning for voting for Palmar. Paperscraps vote on decon and then using this as a reason to vote for sandroba
If you aren't even going to try, then you are going to get lynched. Which is the very next post after Deconduo, TheToast, and Jackal are all better lynches. I don't know if we should lynch Sandroba yet, due to the hit claim. Sandroba is on ice though and needs to start contributing as do a lot of other players. It's way too convenient. Sandroba had made it clear that he was actively not contributing. Why the sudden change? I'll tell you because it became clear they couldn't save him.
I would be happy to vote for either of these two.
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On March 07 2012 13:01 Snarfs wrote:Awful quick vote there against a guy who's claiming blue. We have 2 days to figure out if he's lying or not, we should use it.
Snarfs you have been logical this game. Who do you think is the best lynch out of Adam, Paperscraps and Bluelightz. Right now they are the one's I would consider lynching.
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Hah, your case is laughable. How can you possibly claim I seem like i'm trying to contribute? I have been actively not contributing since day 1. The rest of it is a pile of turds about my interactions with the now deceased and is complete WIFOM.
I've been acting like a dick to you because I thought you were scum the second you sheep voted onto sandroba with the reasoning of "my reads look a lot like Palmars, so ill vote like he does".
You've sidetracked this game into setup discussion which boils down to an answer no townie can know on more than one occasion.
You asked Pandain for his reads on who he thought was scum, he named Bluelightz, Jackal and myself.
This is a glaring contradiction to his stance towards me yesterday. He was actively defending me and pushing the lynch in any other direction. Yet you don't even bat an eye-lid at his complete 180.
Town Probulous is better then that, he would call out the glaring contradiction.
##Vote Probulous
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I hope you are not serious cause this is like WTF fail.
On March 07 2012 13:43 Adam4167 wrote: I've been acting like a dick to you because I thought you were scum the second you sheep voted onto sandroba with the reasoning of "my reads look a lot like Palmars, so ill vote like he does".
Let me clarify that for you (linky) Here are the important bits from that quote
On March 03 2012 06:04 Probulous wrote: Right now my reads correlate best with Palmar....Sandroba, you're not helping yourself. The quote from Jackal in L corresponds very well to your current play. This is why I want Jackal's opinion. He shot you then, would he shoot you now? Toast is right to call you out for lack of contribution. Your response enforces his case. ##vote Sandroba
It is pretty clear that I just said my reads correlate. I then go on to explain that sandroba's play is very similar to his play in Mafia L where he was scum. I even asked Jackal to comment because I (wrongly it turns out) thought he had shot sandroba. The point being I clearly thought he was scum. Compare this to your vote reason
On March 06 2012 08:55 Adam4167 wrote: Its far too late in the day to start pushing another case. Id like to see a resolution to this night-hit situation. ##Vote sandroba This after defending him all day long. You don't even say he is scum.
You've sidetracked this game into setup discussion which boils down to an answer no townie can know on more than one occasion. You asked Pandain for his reads on who he thought was scum, he named Bluelightz, Jackal and myself. This is a glaring contradiction to his stance towards me yesterday. He was actively defending me and pushing the lynch in any other direction. Yet you don't even bat an eye-lid at his complete 180.
He has been town to me since very early game. His interactions with Toast up front made him townie to me. Then his gambit which confirmed AKCT could be mafia but from my reading seems to be town. Besides he is actively contributing. He is here and discussing stuff with me. You are never here. Besides if you are so sure he is scum, why the vote on me? Either you think he is town (like me) or your point is bullshit.
You have not built a case here. Nothing you have quoted or pointed out comes from only a mafia's agenda. You say you have been contributing a lot. Well point me to a case besides Palmar where you label someone as scum for a reason? I can't see anything in your filter except for some defense with Jackal and me.
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EBWOP: OK reread you say you actively are not contributing. Point? If anything this just proves my point, you are useless and town Adam is not useless. You refuse to post information when we ask and you have done nothing all game. This does not make sense from a town perspective, especially if you have been targeted by others. You don't seem to want to even try and provide something of use.
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For my other town members out there please take a good look at this. This is what happens when mafia get caught with their pants down. They know I am on the right track, they know that I have some level of legitimacy in this town and they know the only possible way to silence me is to get me lynched and the bury my thoughts in the subsequent recrimination.
If Adam really thought I was mafia since Day 2, why would he vote for sandroba with such a terrible reason? He asked me about my "sheeping" of Palmar and I explained it. He apparently dropped it but was not satisfied by my response. What townie does that? If you don't like the response someone gives you, you push hard until you get a satisfactory one or there is no hope of resolution. Otherwise the question is just not important. But suddenly now, after I put together my case on Paper and Adam that innocuous question which I thought I had dealt with is the mother of all scum tells that proves I am mafia?
Look at everything I have done this game. I have pushed people on their vote records, I have tried to fathom what breadcrumbs I could from Palmar's demise, I have kept the thread going when no-one else was. I have pushed and prodded many of you to try and find the truth.
Adam, well Adam as he admits has done nothing. He has an aweful reason for voting for sandroba that flatly contradicts his reason for voting for Palmar. His reasoning for voting for someone who was never going to get lynched was he didn't think that Misder or sandroba was scum. Ok fair enough, but why on Day 2 do you suddenly change to sandroba with the reason of why the hell not? Especially if you think I am scum?
##vote Adam4167
Two reds in a row, this town is on a role.
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Probulous has been warned for out of thread communication. Please refrain from contacting or talking with other players about the game, outside the game thread, as it is in breach of the rules.
Post in question: + Show Spoiler +On March 07 2012 12:15 TheToast wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 11:20 Probulous wrote: LOL Toast, you so slow. Why you no post in our mafia game? First rule of Mafia: we don't talk about Mafia (outside of Mafia). Besides being a severe infraction of the rules in a non-PM game, this has the annoying potential to start a trend of stalking people on TL outside of Mafia. That is not a good precedent. + Show Spoiler +And if you must know I'm watching You Tube and Installing a Linux VM which has my attention a bit too divided for Mafia playing at the moment.
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Did you even read my cases against Bluelightz? I said as my first act in this game I would make sure he doesn't lurk. I have pushed him all game to provide something. What else am I supposed to do to make his alignment clear to us. I mean I can't very well post for him, the best I can do is place my vote and pressure him. It didn't work yesterday so my vote moved. No harm in trying again, but here you are undermining my efforts in this department.
I don't even know what to say here. One list of timezones and suddenly I am not contributing. *Shock horror* Please pull the other one.
It doesn't matter if his logic is horrible, what matters is whether I think he is town or scum. His defense whilst all over the place still seemed townie to me. Now after Pandain's gambit it seems he is townie, so hoorah I was correct. How this is a mark against me I have no idea?
I admit that post doesn't contain as much info as I originally thought it did. I was just trying to show how it made no sense to shoot RG. He clearly couldn't be a Vig or SK because he contradicted himself so often, therefore he must have been a VT or Veteran. Sure I could have worded it better but it is not the only thing I have posted.
You accuse me of looking as if i'm trying to contribute, when it is exactly what you have been doing all game.
I do think Pandain is town. I think you're scum. Your defence of yourself is to deflect back onto my questionable actions this game. That is not a defence at all.
The irony is strong with this one. I have nothing to defend, I am town, my actions show that. You have not provided a coherent case. When I present my case on you, you come back with this and you say I am the one deflecting.
I am never here because I have uni to attend, I am getting really sick of stating that. In fact, I'm going to be not here some more as I have uni work to finish. If you're not going to play, don't play. You have had plenty of time to put something together, only when pushed do you suddenly find the time to put a case on me. No, this time you are mafia and I am town. The roles have switched and yet again we are on opposite sides. This time I hope to return the favour.
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I would also like to make a public apology to both TheToast and the hosts of this game. My actions were not intended in a malicious manner but they are against the rules.
Mr Wiggles has been gracious enough to give me a warning and let it be.
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@Pandain: Why would I claim I shot Jackal if I was scum? There is no motivation as scum to do this. Unless I was tracked or something, in which I would have to cc of course. I really don't get your logic here.
I am not getting lynched. I am clear. Jackal seemed scummy and was not contributing at all, thus he was a good shot. It is unfortunate he flipped green, but we have one less lurker now.
Pandain you have been playing well up to this point, but your vote on me makes no sense.
Everyone really needs to look at TheToast, Deconduo and Bluelightz.
I still think there is an SK.
14 players with ~3 or 4 mafia would be unbalanced. A third party would balance the setup. Town has two blue roles at the moment. Watcher(dead) and Vigilante(Me). It is probably safe to assume there is a medic as well. So that is 3 blue roles out of ~10 town players. This is just a guess of course, but would make the most sense balance wise.
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##Vote Adam4167
I gotta agree with Prob and the recently deceased on this one. Adam has been actively posting without providing any content.
Here's a good example for you:
On March 02 2012 12:58 Adam4167 wrote:Prob, my activity will come in bursts most of the game. I have uni back on now and also I don't like posting just for the sake of it, only when I feel I have something relevant to contribute. I find Palmar interesting, as I do in every one of our games. I think his exchange with you from yesterday was an exercise in stating the obvious, something I don't expect from him. As I said to him yesterday, everything he was stating was stuff that townies should already be doing and the fact that he needed to stress it across 4 posts shows that he is either just talking for the sake of putting words on a page, or he has no faith in this town. Right now, I am leaning towards he is not town. I find Pandains 'analysis' of Killer Cup interesting also. Pandain warns about making assumptions about your accusers here. Then he goes on to make the assumption that Killer Cup is so scummy that he cant be scum here. I made that assumption in Arkham City with jaybrundage, that he looked so damn scummy that he had to be bad town. Nope, wrong. He was just obvscum. I don't agree with Pandains logic, but that doesn't make him scum, so I have him as null for now. Misder, if you have all those reads on everyone, why not write a paragraph on each one and detail how you got to those reads. Writing everyone's name and then an alignment is pointless and we all love pointless lists around here. Your OMGUS vote on deconduo is weak. You're voting him because he has different reads to you? You need to start putting effort into your reads.
I also don't know what this is:
I have been actively not contributing since day 1. But it certainly isn't pro-town.
And this:
You asked Pandain for his reads on who he thought was scum, he named Bluelightz, Jackal and myself.
This is a glaring contradiction to his stance towards me yesterday. He was actively defending me and pushing the lynch in any other direction. Yet you don't even bat an eye-lid at his complete 180.
Town Probulous is better then that, he would call out the glaring contradiction. Looks an awful lot like misdirection to me.
I don't want to just leave it at that though. The strength of the town is in our numbers. Can we not use that?
One thing that immediately pops out is Adam's recent vote on Probulous. Can anyone else besides Adam give a good reason for voting up Probulous? I mean, he seems like the most pro-town guy left! I would really like to hear Pandain and Dec's opinions on this, given they're the remaining veterans here. It also wouldn't hurt if AKCT chimed in, I feel like we haven't heard from that guy in awhile.
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On March 07 2012 16:21 Paperscraps wrote: @Pandain: Why would I claim I shot Jackal if I was scum? There is no motivation as scum to do this. Unless I was tracked or something, in which I would have to cc of course. I really don't get your logic here.
I am not getting lynched. I am clear. Jackal seemed scummy and was not contributing at all, thus he was a good shot. It is unfortunate he flipped green, but we have one less lurker now.
Pandain you have been playing well up to this point, but your vote on me makes no sense.
Everyone really needs to look at TheToast, Deconduo and Bluelightz.
Paper why did you shoot last night? Here is why I ask. You were on people's scum list, it was clear that there were other targets far more likely to get shot than you. You could have saved your shot and pushed Jackal today for more information. You hardly pressured him at all. Yes he was lurking but he always lurks. As for why you would claim the shot, to clear your name. You just did it wrong. I honestly don't know what to make of your claim. If you had claimed before the deadline and had presented a case before night ended I would trust it but now well it is hard to believe.
More importantly what is your opinion of Adam and his case on me?
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@Snarfs: Who do you think is scum between Adam and Probulous?
It is hard to tell right now because both of their logic is kind of whack.
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On March 07 2012 16:21 Paperscraps wrote: I still think there is an SK.
14 players with ~3 or 4 mafia would be unbalanced. A third party would balance the setup. Town has two blue roles at the moment. Watcher(dead) and Vigilante(Me). It is probably safe to assume there is a medic as well. So that is 3 blue roles out of ~10 town players. This is just a guess of course, but would make the most sense balance wise.
So someone was double-stacked last night then? You claim a shot, mafia obviously shoot and SK shoots. No-one else has claimed a shot so someone must have been double-stacked. After last night there is less evidence for a SK.
Night 1 sandroba claims a hit and turns out to be scum. Could be a gambit could be a SK with a mafia medic protect. Still only 1 confirmed KP.
Night 2 Palmar and Jackal shot. You claim a shot as a Vig. If this is true then surely mafia made the other hit. To me it seems more likely there is no SK than the SK double-stacked either yours or the mafia's hit. Still only one confirmed KP.
Now of course if you are lying about being a vig then it makes sense that there is a SK to account for the second KP.
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Disregard my last post lol.
On March 07 2012 16:47 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 16:21 Paperscraps wrote: @Pandain: Why would I claim I shot Jackal if I was scum? There is no motivation as scum to do this. Unless I was tracked or something, in which I would have to cc of course. I really don't get your logic here.
I am not getting lynched. I am clear. Jackal seemed scummy and was not contributing at all, thus he was a good shot. It is unfortunate he flipped green, but we have one less lurker now.
Pandain you have been playing well up to this point, but your vote on me makes no sense.
Everyone really needs to look at TheToast, Deconduo and Bluelightz. Paper why did you shoot last night? Here is why I ask. You were on people's scum list, it was clear that there were other targets far more likely to get shot than you. You could have saved your shot and pushed Jackal today for more information. You hardly pressured him at all. Yes he was lurking but he always lurks. As for why you would claim the shot, to clear your name. You just did it wrong. I honestly don't know what to make of your claim. If you had claimed before the deadline and had presented a case before night ended I would trust it but now well it is hard to believe. More importantly what is your opinion of Adam and his case on me?
I shot Jackal, because I thought he was scum. I didn't think that people wouldn't believe my claim. I wasn't on that many people's scum list. Honestly I thought I would be clear today, but somehow people think I am mafia/sk who just outright claimed a kill. That makes no sense.
I think Adam is scum, but I need to look more closely at your filter Probulous before I am sure.
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On March 07 2012 16:57 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 16:21 Paperscraps wrote: I still think there is an SK.
14 players with ~3 or 4 mafia would be unbalanced. A third party would balance the setup. Town has two blue roles at the moment. Watcher(dead) and Vigilante(Me). It is probably safe to assume there is a medic as well. So that is 3 blue roles out of ~10 town players. This is just a guess of course, but would make the most sense balance wise. So someone was double-stacked last night then? You claim a shot, mafia obviously shoot and SK shoots. No-one else has claimed a shot so someone must have been double-stacked. After last night there is less evidence for a SK. Night 1 sandroba claims a hit and turns out to be scum. Could be a gambit could be a SK with a mafia medic protect. Still only 1 confirmed KP. Night 2 Palmar and Jackal shot. You claim a shot as a Vig. If this is true then surely mafia made the other hit. To me it seems more likely there is no SK than the SK double-stacked either yours or the mafia's hit. Still only one confirmed KP. Now of course if you are lying about being a vig then it makes sense that there is a SK to account for the second KP.
Don't forget we could have had medic saves!
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On March 07 2012 16:51 Paperscraps wrote: @Snarfs: Who do you think is scum between Adam and Probulous?
It is hard to tell right now because both of their logic is kind of whack.
Here let me lay it out for you.
Things Probulous has done for town
- Repeatedly attempted to get lurkers to post. eg Bluelightz
- Pushed everyone as potential scum to ascertain alignment (except possibly decon)
- Voted for sandroba on both Day 1 and Day 2
- Has pushed people for their reasoning for suspicious votes after a flip
- Posts often and responds to all queries
- Changes his mind when new evidence comes to light and is happy to change his reads. See AKCT
- Made his reasons for voting for Sandroba clear
I could go find quotes and evidence of this and more stuff I have done but it should be plainly obvious that I am town. I may not be the most effective but I am certainly trying. When Palmar noted sandroba looked scummy I went into his history. I found that game with Jackal and compared his play then and now. It fitted with him actively avoiding the thread. So I voted for him, then he claimed and looked scummier because I didn't believe he was a vet, so I voted for him again. You can't argue that I have not made reasons for my votes clear.
Things Adam4167 has done for town- Pushed and voted for Palmar on Day 1
- Defended himself from Jackal and myself Day 2
- His case on me
He has not even attempted to make his alignment clear. He says is busy and so can't post but he posts often enough not to be a lurker. His filter is as long as snarfs who has looked town for ages.
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On March 07 2012 16:59 Paperscraps wrote: Don't forget we could have had medic saves!
No-one has claimed an extra shot? Simpler to assume there was no shot until someone does.
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Normally Mafia/SK won't claim a hit though. Not everyone has posted yet either.
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- You are assuming there is an extra kill point
- Therefore there must be a medic save/SK not claiming/whatever
- Therefore there is a SK.
Simpler to just assume that there is no extra kill point until someone claims.
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##Vote: Adam4167
1. Probulous is play very pro-town. I read his filter and can't find any faults 2. Adam's case against Probulous was just him trying to deflect attention onto Pandain, who I read as town at the moment.
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I know this is a big post, I am sorry for the wall but most of it is quotes of my posts. I feel like I need to make my voting reasons abundantly obvious. People genuinely seem to think I may be mafia which I initially laughed at but now I have to defend. So here are my posts that relate to my votes.
On March 02 2012 19:59 Probulous wrote:Jackal given you said this in Mafia L Show nested quote +On January 16 2012 23:39 Jackal58 wrote:On January 16 2012 18:46 wherebugsgo wrote: anyway, for the world outside of Scamp, I have some pressing questions I want answered while I'm asleep: Jackal58: I agreed with everything you said day 1, which is either really good or really bad. What are your thoughts right now? Who's scum? Sandroba. When he disappears he's scum. He has disappeared. Would you shoot Sandroba if you had a gun this game. I agree with Palmar that he has been hiding which is scummy as hell. His case on Pandain is insubstantial and he isn't here. I have never played with him but since Jackal has a history of recognising Sandroba's scum, I think your opinion here would be useful.
On March 03 2012 06:04 Probulous wrote: Sandroba, you're not helping yourself. The quote from Jackal in L corresponds very well to your current play. This is why I want Jackal's opinion. He shot you then, would he shoot you now? Toast is right to call you out for lack of contribution. Your response enforces his case. ##vote Sandroba
On March 03 2012 11:11 Probulous wrote: Adam I am not sheeping Palmar. You hadn't produced anything of note until recently. Sandrona is actively lurking and seemingly has no interest in this game. When he is town he has shown skill in putting together decent cases. He isn't even bothering to try this game. He played like this L where he was scum. Add those together and you get mafia. This is for voting for sandroba Day 1. I was the second vote on sandroba after Palmar. If you have any questions about this, ask.
On March 06 2012 08:12 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2012 07:43 Pandain wrote: There's no reason to vote sandroba, he's not scum(no resistance at all)so that leaves either sk or town. Rather than vote him, we should merely track him. This will effectively negate any chance of him shooting again. I do believe he's sk but feel this is A better alternative as it encompasses all the reasons we would want to lynch sk without the risk of lynching town. We should use today instead as an opportunity to lynch scum. I don't know why you say there is no resistance to him being lynched. Toast is screaming blue murder that you are scum. If my team is correct then blue is soft-bussing which is unsurprising. The way I see it these are the possible explanations for Sandroba "hit" Fake Claim- He is trying to gain cred by faking a claimed hit.
- Serial Killer / Mafia - Helps him avoid suspicion Day 2
- Town - Clears his name to some extent
The implications of this are that there may not be a SK. The problem with the fake claim is that the benefit for him is minimal. The way he claimed makes him look less like a veteran than someone who got medic saved and no town medic would save him. I believe he was shot. Real Claim- He survived a hit and claimed it
- Serial Killer - Knows someone has hit him and wants to flush that person out.
- Mafia - Knows that someone has hit him and will claim the hit if they are a vigilante. The vig gets town cred and he looks bad for not claiming the hit so he does it first. The claim also might flush out the shooter. The SK could act like a vig too so either way he had to claim.
- Veteran - He has been shot and can excuse his crappy play as an attempt to get shot.
The issue I have with the veteran claim is the manner in which he claimed it. Most vets celebrate when they get shot, they have achieved their aim. His was a BTW sort of admission. Combined with his lurky play I don't believe his vet claim. That leaves SK or mafia. I don't agree with Pandain that he isn't being defended. Toast is pretty vehement that Pandain is scum. Chainsaw much? A Sandroba lynch will confirm the existence of a Serial Killer if he flips Veteran (unlikely). If he flips scum we celebrate and we know they have a medic. If he flips SK we have removed a potential issue for town. He isn't playing well and I would guess would probably shoot town before he shoots scum.
On March 06 2012 08:28 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2012 08:19 Pandain wrote: And toast is negligient, he merely is focused on me because I've been focused on him. He's been on me since day 1, and he hasn't supported Sandroba. There is effectively no support for Sandroba. But again, this only indicates he's not scum, as they wouldn't just let him(and he wouldn't be so lethargic about getting lynched), die when theres a valid excuse.
But I'm not even denying that Sandroba is probably scum. The key fact is that by lynching him we effectively waste a day to either confirm what we already assumed(he's SK), or the fact that he's a vet(in which case we just lynched a town woopdie doo). If we make him unable to shoot for fear of getting caught, then we don't even have to worry about him harming town. You reasoning rests of two assumptions - He is the SK
- Mafia would defend him if he was scum
The first can only be confirmed by a flip. The second is big. He was scummy since Day 1 and was almost lynched. Then he was shot overnight. Despite all this he has not attempted to provide any analysis at all. Anyone straight up defending him would have to use really weird logic or a chainsaw defense. Surely it is better to let him swing and waste town's time on someone who is clearly not town. Plus they can gain a little cred for his flip and can hide amongst the rest of the votes. I don't see why this is unlikely. If he is mafia they have a medic and he clearly isn't it (he can't protect himself).
This is my reasoning for my vote Day 2. I hope it is clear. I even persuaded Pandain to drop the idea of tracking sandroba instead of lynching him (or at least tried to). You see all other actions in this game can normally be explained from both a mafia or town point of view. It is just that normally one is more believable than the other. Does my voting and explanations make more sense from a town or mafia perspective. Voting is the ultimate power given to everyone, it is what separates the town from the mafia. I'll be showing you Adam's record next.
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Below are Adam's reasons for his votes. I will try and be as impartial as possible in my analysis.
On March 02 2012 12:58 Adam4167 wrote: I find Palmar interesting, as I do in every one of our games. I think his exchange with you from yesterday was an exercise in stating the obvious, something I don't expect from him. As I said to him yesterday, everything he was stating was stuff that townies should already be doing and the fact that he needed to stress it across 4 posts shows that he is either just talking for the sake of putting words on a page, or he has no faith in this town. Right now, I am leaning towards he is not town
On March 03 2012 08:27 Adam4167 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 18:52 Palmar wrote: Paperscraps looks towny, so does rgTS. I'm not really sure about teacup, but there's nothing super scummy in his posting so far.
I refuse to analyse jackal58, cause I never get it right. misder seems towny i think. Adam not so much, he could be scummer. I'm not quite sure about probulous, something is off about his play I think, but I can't exactly tell if it's because he's scum. Bluelightz is impossible to read, but assuming the obvious he's town.
I actually think snarfs looks pretty towny from his sk asking post, it just seemed genuine enough not to be fabricated to make us think he's clueless town, in addition I don't think scum often does that.
No clue about the rest really. Toast and Pandain and anyone else I might be forgetting, but if I forget you it's because your content has been worthless so far. So take it as an insult please. These reads are only a fraction better then the list Misder posted, useless and effortless. You label me as scum yet you never follow it up. Why aren't you pressing me to try and find out my alignment if you think I could be 'scummer'. I think its because you have zero interest in finding scum. Look at his town play: Hammer Mini Mafia He is aggressive, he presses his reads. He doesn't give a shit what the rest of the town is doing. Contrast that with what we've seen so far this game. ##Vote Palmar
These are his reasons for voting for Palmar Day 1. Whilst this is alright it ignores the fact that Palmar also usually dies night 1. Palmar would kill me for this but I would rather keep him around for Day 2 unless he has done something really stupid. Anyway, this vote is fine given he didn't think Sandroba or Misder was scum and made that clear before he voted.
On March 06 2012 08:55 Adam4167 wrote: I was occupied with life events yesterday, hence my inactivity for a large portion of it. Its far too late in the day to start pushing another case. Id like to see a resolution to this night-hit situation. ##Vote sandroba
On March 06 2012 11:38 Adam4167 wrote: I'm posting from my phone so I can't quote stuff. Prob, I already stated why I'm on the sandroba lynch in that post. It's too late in the day for me to push the cases I want to push, so I'm bandwagon voting on sandroba to try and get a better grasp on what happened last night. I like other lynches better but convincing at least 4 people to move off of sandroba is something that would take more time then we had when I voted. It's a shit vote and I know it, but my vote going anywhere else is just as shit, considering the current vote tally. As far as I can tell he voted for sandroba because it was easy. Here is my response
On March 06 2012 11:46 Probulous wrote: Well this is completely illogical. Your last sentence implies that sandroba is getting lynched regardless of your vote. The rest of your post suggests you want a conclusion to the night hit. Well combining those would suggest that you will get that conclusion regardless of how you vote. In this situation it would make sense to stick with your reads. If people switch to your reads then great, if not you get clarification on the hit. Either way it looks like you don't believe he is scum, so why vote for him? You're taking the easy way out and I don't like it. Town Adam doesn't do things the easy way.
If you really think I am more likely to be scum than Adam you have rocks in your head. I am town, he is not. Vote for Adam.
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Adam: -Probulous is definitely town, amd he's trying to push a case against him. -Defended Sandroba Day 2 -Voted Sandroba when there was no chance to save him. -Considered Palmar confirmed town Night 2, then Palmar dies. -Jackal read him as scum. Now obviously Jackal isn't infallible, but he did flip town and he's a decent enough scumhunter. Its certainly worth considering his opinion.
Conclusion: Scum
Paper: -Paper has been tunelling me since Day 1. He says he's convinced I'm scum -He thinks Jackal is scum by association -He doesn't shoot me Night 1 -He doesn't shoot me Night 2 -He shoots Jackal Night 2 -He claims the kill AFTER the day post
This makes absolutely no sense to me. If he is a vig, why not shoot me? Why claim after the day post instead of before? If he is scum/SK, why claim the kill? Given the missing KP, I'm inclined to think Paper is SK, and was worried about being tracked. Jackal was a blue read for me, which would explain why Paper would go after him. When none of the bodies flipped Tracker, he claimed the shot figuring if he didn't he'd lynched on the spot if he had been tracked. Its a bit of a stretch, but I can't see anything else that makes more sense. It also explains why he would wait for the day post.
Conclusion: SK
I'm gonna go over Palmar's post in Day 2 to see if he breadcrumbed anything. Hopefully if he did it isn't too obscure. Back in couple of hours.
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Decon do you think it likely we have both a watcher and a tracker? Seems a stretch to me but could be true. That would give us a watcher, tracker and medic(probably). If you're assuming a SK too that is a lot of power roles in such a small setup but I guess they are more weak than usual.
I agree that Paper's decision to shoot Jackal over you needs explaining. Makes sense from a mafia point of view to keep you around if they think they can lynch you. I still think Adam is a better bet for today's lynch.
From phone
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On March 07 2012 20:08 Probulous wrote: Decon do you think it likely we have both a watcher and a tracker? Seems a stretch to me but could be true. That would give us a watcher, tracker and medic(probably). If you're assuming a SK too that is a lot of power roles in such a small setup but I guess they are more weak than usual.
I agree that Paper's decision to shoot Jackal over you needs explaining. Makes sense from a mafia point of view to keep you around if they think they can lynch you. I still think Adam is a better bet for today's lynch.
From phone
In most setups like this the watcher functions as a medic role rather than detective. So you'd have a Tracker+Watcher or Tracker+Medic. That way if the Tracker claims, he can be protected by the Medic or Watcher. If mafia try to kill him he either gets saved or the killer gets seen by the Watcher.
I don't think its a stretch to think we'd have a Tracker + Watcher but no medic. However, what I think doesn't really matter, its what Paper thought at the day post. He claimed exactly one minute after the post, so he didn't have time to think about his decision. He was obviously waiting for something, and was going base his claim on the contents of the day post.
At this point I think lynching Paper might be a better choice. If he is SK:
-We drop anti-town KP by 1 guaranteed. -It removes any kingmaker scenarios. -Scum are down one member already.
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Okay guys im here, I'll explain a few things before my pitiful defense.......
First, I posted in Kaller Game because it was easier :p and thinking up a defense isnt easy when you have to leave for school soon :3
Day 1, I voted for rgTheSchworz because I believed he had the highest chance of flipping so called "scum", I botched up the sentence for voting by saying "scum" and not "third party" like I suspected him to be.
I admit, I have been providing excuses for most of the time because im at school for most of the time of the day.
And, I start posting at this ridiculous time because I went like School -> Pick-Up Dad -> Pick-Up Mom -> Dinner at a restaurant -> now
Reading filters nao to look for anything interesting.
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On March 07 2012 23:00 Bluelightz wrote: Okay guys im here, I'll explain a few things before my pitiful defense.......
First, I posted in Kaller Game because it was easier :p and thinking up a defense isnt easy when you have to leave for school soon :3
Um.... what? The really stupid thing is, I've seen you post dumber things in games where you turned out to be town. I don't know what the hell your alignment is this game but at this point your just making things worse....
On March 07 2012 16:21 Paperscraps wrote: @Pandain: Why would I claim I shot Jackal if I was scum? There is no motivation as scum to do this. Unless I was tracked or something, in which I would have to cc of course. I really don't get your logic here.
hmmm Q: If a vig takes a shot and the target is protected by a medic, does the vig get that shot back? That is, can they then hit another target?
Just thinking about Sandro's claim and trying to determine whether or not an SK exists in this game.
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At Toast meh botched it up again
And your question I think that the vig wastes his shot.
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On March 07 2012 23:24 TheToast wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 23:00 Bluelightz wrote: Okay guys im here, I'll explain a few things before my pitiful defense.......
First, I posted in Kaller Game because it was easier :p and thinking up a defense isnt easy when you have to leave for school soon :3
Um.... what? The really stupid thing is, I've seen you post dumber things in games where you turned out to be town. I don't know what the hell your alignment is this game but at this point your just making things worse.... Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 16:21 Paperscraps wrote: @Pandain: Why would I claim I shot Jackal if I was scum? There is no motivation as scum to do this. Unless I was tracked or something, in which I would have to cc of course. I really don't get your logic here.
hmmm Q: If a vig takes a shot and the target is protected by a medic, does the vig get that shot back? That is, can they then hit another target?Just thinking about Sandro's claim and trying to determine whether or not an SK exists in this game. If a target is protected by a medic, and a vig shoots them, the medic protection absorbs the shot. They cannot shoot another target.
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Alright gotta sleep will try and find stuff later in the morning if I can.
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On March 07 2012 23:48 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 23:24 TheToast wrote:On March 07 2012 23:00 Bluelightz wrote: Okay guys im here, I'll explain a few things before my pitiful defense.......
First, I posted in Kaller Game because it was easier :p and thinking up a defense isnt easy when you have to leave for school soon :3
Um.... what? The really stupid thing is, I've seen you post dumber things in games where you turned out to be town. I don't know what the hell your alignment is this game but at this point your just making things worse.... On March 07 2012 16:21 Paperscraps wrote: @Pandain: Why would I claim I shot Jackal if I was scum? There is no motivation as scum to do this. Unless I was tracked or something, in which I would have to cc of course. I really don't get your logic here.
hmmm Q: If a vig takes a shot and the target is protected by a medic, does the vig get that shot back? That is, can they then hit another target?Just thinking about Sandro's claim and trying to determine whether or not an SK exists in this game. If a target is protected by a medic, and a vig shoots them, the medic protection absorbs the shot. They cannot shoot another target.
Well crap. We're in WIFOM country again.
So in all Night #2 didn't clear anything up at all, we're right back where we started. If Sandro was telling the truth, there is almost certainly an SK. If he was lying, there's no SK. I was hoping for something more difinitive after night 2 :/
I'm not sure at the moment where Paper stands (he has changed his focus pretty quickly to Adam), but I do know that if he is a vig he has the worst timing ever.
On March 07 2012 17:31 Probulous wrote:- You are assuming there is an extra kill point
- Therefore there must be a medic save/SK not claiming/whatever
- Therefore there is a SK.
Simpler to just assume that there is no extra kill point until someone claims.
Yes and no. If we have a medic who saved someone last night, it would probably be better they don't claim for the moment as it would probably just end up getting them killed Night 3. Plus since mafia could have a vig, right now a medic claim wouldn't help at all in determining whether there is an SK. If there is a real vet who got hit, then they should absolutely claim. A vet would be an unlikely target for mafia Night 3, and it would at least help us narrow down the options. Given that we have lost our watcher, losing a medic wouldn't be worth that information.
The absense of a medic/vet claim also doesn't necessarily prove anything. As I mentioned before, SK could have decided not to submit a night kill at all in an attempt to convince us there is no SK. That seems unlikely given the odds against the SK, but then again that may be the very reason the SK decides to do it (welcome to WIFOM city). So unless there is a vet that got hit (which seems unlikely) we are exactly back at the start of Day 2 in terms of figuring out if there is an SK--all comes back to whether Sandro's claim was real or not.
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On March 07 2012 20:08 Probulous wrote: Decon do you think it likely we have both a watcher and a tracker? Seems a stretch to me but could be true. That would give us a watcher, tracker and medic(probably). If you're assuming a SK too that is a lot of power roles in such a small setup but I guess they are more weak than usual.
I agree that Paper's decision to shoot Jackal over you needs explaining. Makes sense from a mafia point of view to keep you around if they think they can lynch you. I still think Adam is a better bet for today's lynch.
From phone
I shot Jackal over Decon, because I had doubts about Decon being scum and didn't have doubts about Jackal. People were saying Decon isn't scum, stop tunneling him, so I did. I am realizing though that those people telling me that Decon isn't scum are probably scum themselves though.
Also everyone needs to look at TheToast's question very closely.
I will restate again why I claimed the way I did.
I wanted town to know as much as possible about how the KP was distributed. In hindsight I should have claimed before day post, but this is the first time I have been a vig in a forum game. A lot of people fosed Jackal at the end of the night. Jackal even posted right after me, so he was obviously around, but didn't post relevant material during the night. If he had scum hunted during the night that would have swayed my decision.
Note Decon's hesitance to vote Adam, after he calls him scum.
If you honestly think I am SK after reading TheToast's post, you need to get your head checked.
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On March 07 2012 13:43 Adam4167 wrote: You asked Pandain for his reads on who he thought was scum, he named Bluelightz, Jackal and myself.
This is a glaring contradiction to his stance towards me yesterday. He was actively defending me and pushing the lynch in any other direction. Yet you don't even bat an eye-lid at his complete 180.
Town Probulous is better then that, he would call out the glaring contradiction.
##Vote Probulous
I think rather than nailing Probulous on this assumption, it would be in the best interests of the town to explain why you are not voting for Pandain given that you noticed it.
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On March 08 2012 03:09 Paperscraps wrote: Also everyone needs to look at TheToast's question very closely.
I asked because I wanted to see if it was possible that vig (potentially you) could have taken a shot at Sandro night 1 as well as the shot on Jackle night 2. I wanted a clarification on the rule, as if vig gets their shot back you could claim that you took a shot at Sandro and claim that makes you town; or if you failed to claim one way or the other on that shot I would be looking into it a bit more. Either way it's completely irrelevant given that vig's only get one shot. (assuming you really are a vig)
As I said before several times, I'm proceeding as though Sandro's claim was real. If it turns out he was lying we lose nothing (assuming we don't lynch anyone based on his claim) and if he was telling the truth it could lead us to the SK.
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Last night was the only time I shot. I find it surprising that people would think I am mafia/SK just blatantly announcing my kills all of a sudden, when mafia/SK tend to try and hide and blend. I guess that is WIFOM, but what benefits do I have in claiming I shot some one as mafia/SK? Don't give me some crap about how I could have been tracked or something. My claim wasn't a reaction to anyone calling me out. I claimed this way so that if I was tracked or something, the PR can stay hidden and not have to out their report.
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I honestly think we have an Adam + Pandain remaining scum team with deconduo as our SK.
Adam has already had a case made against him.
Pandain:
- Has consistently worked to oppose votes against Adam and Sandroba
- As AKCT pointed out, he could have easily led to us lynching a blue if AKCT was/is blue and had reacted differently
- Was way too quick to jump on Paper after claiming blue.
- Easily switches votes between TheToast, Bluelightz and Paper. Only votes Sandroba when it's a clear lynch.
decon:
- Doesn't seem to care who gets lynched
- ??? Someone needs to be either a 4th mafia or an SK.
- Gut instinct says it's this guy. I know it's a shit reason, but I don't see any point in not telling you guys that that's what I believe.
Obviously my case against decon is very weak. But who are our alternatives? AKCT's reaction to Pandain should pretty much clear his name, but he has disappeared since then. I would really like to hear a good reason for this.
Bluelightz??? How the hell do you read this guy?
Paper? Maybe, but his reasoning for hitting Jackal makes sense, he did think he was scum. Also, I do believe him when he admits that he should have called the shot before the deadline. I'm never afraid to admit when I'm wrong, and I definitely think I was wrong about Paper unless I see some sort of evidence to disbelieve his claim.
My case against Pandain does revolve a bit around Adam being mafia. I think we have enough reason at this point to lynch Adam today though.
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decon, besides Paper, who else do you think could be SK?
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On March 08 2012 04:05 Paperscraps wrote: Last night was the only time I shot. I find it surprising that people would think I am mafia/SK just blatantly announcing my kills all of a sudden, when mafia/SK tend to try and hide and blend. I guess that is WIFOM, but what benefits do I have in claiming I shot some one as mafia/SK? Don't give me some crap about how I could have been tracked or something. My claim wasn't a reaction to anyone calling me out. I claimed this way so that if I was tracked or something, the PR can stay hidden and not have to out their report.
##Vote Paperscraps
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On March 08 2012 06:06 Snarfs wrote: decon, besides Paper, who else do you think could be SK?
If Paper isn't SK, he's scum or there isn't an SK. I don't think scum would play like paper is playing so I haven't really considered that situation tbh, Considering that if there is an SK, he shot sandro and knew his hit claim was legit, I'd say Adam or Pandain.. Their reaction to the Sanrdro lynch sways me that way.
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On March 08 2012 03:09 Paperscraps wrote: Note Decon's hesitance to vote Adam, after he calls him scum.
I'm not hesitant to vote Adam, I'd just prefer to lynch you instead. Adam is my 2nd choice of lynch today, but dropping anti-town KP is more important right now.
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On March 07 2012 19:33 deconduo wrote: Given the missing KP, I'm inclined to think Paper is SK, and was worried about being tracked. Jackal was a blue read for me, which would explain why Paper would go after him. When none of the bodies flipped Tracker, he claimed the shot figuring if he didn't he'd lynched on the spot if he had been tracked. Its a bit of a stretch, but I can't see anything else that makes more sense. It also explains why he would wait for the day post. This seems to be the crux of the issue. If Paper was worried about being tracked he would have to claim the shot. Now unfortunately that makes sense whether he is a Vig, Mafia or SK. If he is worried that someone has seen him shoot then he needs to claim even if he is blue. Otherwise they claim and his counterclaim looks terrible, so the claim itself doesn't make him scum.
As for waiting for the day post that again doesn't make sense from a mafia, vig or SK POV. If he was worried about being tracked it would have better if he was any of these roles to claim before the day post. Again that would lend his claim credibility, regardless of whether he was vig, mafia or SK. I honestly think it was a mistake or just not knowing what to do in that case. This makes me think he is either a Vig or SK, his mafia buddy would surely have pointed that out to him (a tad of WIFOM here so tread with caution).
On March 07 2012 22:42 deconduo wrote: I don't think its a stretch to think we'd have a Tracker + Watcher but no medic. However, what I think doesn't really matter, its what Paper thought at the day post. He claimed exactly one minute after the post, so he didn't have time to think about his decision. He was obviously waiting for something, and was going base his claim on the contents of the day post. Yes, he was waiting to see whether Jackal died. The problem as above, is that you have separate the motivations between a Vig, mafia or SK shot and his timing is bad for all three.
On March 08 2012 03:09 Paperscraps wrote: I wanted town to know as much as possible about how the KP was distributed. In hindsight I should have claimed before day post, but this is the first time I have been a vig in a forum game. A lot of people fosed Jackal at the end of the night. Jackal even posted right after me, so he was obviously around, but didn't post relevant material during the night. If he had scum hunted during the night that would have swayed my decision. This is where we can tell whether Paperscraps is town or not. His motivation for shooting Jackal. He says that Jackal was looking scummy, which is true. He had FOS'd Jackal since the Misder vote. Yes he was on decon more but it was not like he suddenly decided Jackal was scum. This quote in hindsight looks promising
On March 06 2012 20:58 Paperscraps wrote:It seems like everyone thinks Decon is town except for me, so I could very well be wrong. I will be objective about this and look into the filters of others I think are scummy. inb4 "you are backpedaling scum"
Note this post from Toast
On March 07 2012 07:16 TheToast wrote: If Sandro's claim is true, and there is an SK; top people to question/track/watch should be Paper, and Jackal. It is not unreasonable for Paper to believe he was being tracked. He was on the scummy list of a few people and had been called out in the thread as a track target.
In conclusion, as shocking as this sounds I believe Paperscraps is a vigilante. I think he second guessed himself about Decon and so shot his second target. He was concerned about being tracked so claimed the hit when he thought it best. The hope was that he would have his named cleared when Jackal flipped scum. Was it the best play? Hell no but it makes sense to me.
If nothing else note his persistance in trying to clear his name. He is clearly frustrated but is putting in the effort to try and make his thinking clear. Compare that to Adam, who is apparently still too busy to participate. Decon I agree it would be nice to lower KP with a SK lynch but I don't believe that Paper is the SK (if we have one). We lynch Adam today.
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You know what? After reading quotes like this:
anyway staying lurkerish but not being ompletely inactive actually gets you off the mind of people XD
and this:
I Think my lurkerish state is lurkerish enough to stop a case being made on me ^_^
in the quick topic Adam linked earlier on Bluelightz, I would be very happy to lynch Bluelightz today.
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On March 08 2012 08:04 Probulous wrote: If nothing else note his persistance in trying to clear his name. He is clearly frustrated but is putting in the effort to try and make his thinking clear. Compare that to Adam, who is apparently still too busy to participate. Decon I agree it would be nice to lower KP with a SK lynch but I don't believe that Paper is the SK (if we have one). We lynch Adam today.
I can deal with that.
##Unvote ##Vote Adam4167
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Well, actually, if for some strange reason Adam flips town then I would consider it... But then we are getting low on townspeople.
We're at 6-2-1 right now assuming an SK. If we mess this lynch up we could potentially be at a worst case of 3-2-1 if mafia and SK both kill a townie.
I mean, this lynch is so important for town today. Where're the contributions from AKCT, Bluelightz, Pandain, etc.??
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Whilst Bluelightz still needs to be splattered across a few city blocks, Adam is more important today. He has the ability to sway people with flimsy cases. He has basically outed himself as scum with his bizarre case on me. Even if you ignore the substance of my case the fact that he presented his Day 2 suspicions in the middle of Day 3 after I post a case on him should confirm his alignment. Bluelightz we can deal with tomorrow.
I assume from that post and your previous one that you believe Paper's claim? What do you think of my defense of him? I am not 100% convinced but it justs seems more likely that he is a naive Vet than scum or SK. Your thoughts on this would be appreciated.
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Trying to draw conclusions from a possible scum-team involving me will ultimately fail, because i am going to flip town in around 24 hours.
The assumption that anyone voting for someone you have a town read on must be scum, is just flat out stupid.
I don't hate paper for voting me, it was me or him when he did, so that's an obvious choice.
I suggest everyone take a hard look at AKCT, who's posted even less then bluelightz after being 'confirmed town'. He also claimed 'vanilla townie', which is inconsistent with the role in the OP 'townie'. Palmar did the same thing, he flipped blue, but I don't think AKCT will.
Snarfs, find me a mafia that actually admits he hasn't been contributing, and ill show you an idiot. Mafia deflect or misdirect. I do think Pandain is town hence why I didn't attack him. Why his read has shifted towards me, that is not something I can answer, you can ask him.
Deconduo, your 'case' against me is terrible. Its filled with confirmation bias. Palmar was the obvious choice to die on N2 since he was clearly town and probably not just a plain townie. Jackal's read is wrong, he clearly wasn't putting much into this game, why would you expect his read to be even close to right?
If we had a medic that wasn't on Palmar N2 after leading the sandroba lynch, then hes useless. I would go as far as to say you should lynch anyone that even claims medic for that. If there's a medic, its a Medic, because I really don't see a town medic being stupid enough to protect sandroba N1.
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Do you still think I am scum Adam?
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Lets WIFOM away at this Probulous, you like doing that.
What kind of stupid scum strategy is it to attack the most townie looking person? Scum buddy the big townie while picking them off at night.
The fact that you are so adamant at shutting me up is hilarious though. I obviously don't have "the ability to sway people with my flimsy cases", as no one even took my case on Palmar halfway seriously.
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On March 08 2012 09:27 Adam4167 wrote: Trying to draw conclusions from a possible scum-team involving me will ultimately fail, because i am going to flip town in around 24 hours.
The assumption that anyone voting for someone you have a town read on must be scum, is just flat out stupid.
I don't hate paper for voting me, it was me or him when he did, so that's an obvious choice.
I suggest everyone take a hard look at AKCT, who's posted even less then bluelightz after being 'confirmed town'. He also claimed 'vanilla townie', which is inconsistent with the role in the OP 'townie'. Palmar did the same thing, he flipped blue, but I don't think AKCT will.
Snarfs, find me a mafia that actually admits he hasn't been contributing, and ill show you an idiot. Mafia deflect or misdirect. I do think Pandain is town hence why I didn't attack him. Why his read has shifted towards me, that is not something I can answer, you can ask him.
Deconduo, your 'case' against me is terrible. Its filled with confirmation bias. Palmar was the obvious choice to die on N2 since he was clearly town and probably not just a plain townie. Jackal's read is wrong, he clearly wasn't putting much into this game, why would you expect his read to be even close to right?
If we had a medic that wasn't on Palmar N2 after leading the sandroba lynch, then hes useless. I would go as far as to say you should lynch anyone that even claims medic for that. If there's a medic, its a Medic, because I really don't see a town medic being stupid enough to protect sandroba N1.
I led the Sandroba lynch day 2. Palmar wanted to lynch AKCT, but I convinced him to switch to sandroba: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=315210¤tpage=21#413
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EBWOP: You are right about one thing though, AKCP has been hardcore lurking.
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I am hardly shutting you up. You hadn't said anything when I wrote that. You haven't answered my question.
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On March 08 2012 09:20 Probulous wrote: I assume from that post and your previous one that you believe Paper's claim? What do you think of my defense of him? I am not 100% convinced but it justs seems more likely that he is a naive Vet than scum or SK. Your thoughts on this would be appreciated. To me, it looked like an honest mistake.
I think we could make a ton of assumptions or guesses, but in the end, mafia and SK are trying to look like town anyways. Unless we have evidence to refute his claim, we're better off targeting people who look more scummy.
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You say "Adam is more important today. He has the ability to sway people with flimsy cases". Implying I need to die first because of what i'm saying.
Of course I didn't answer your question, I clicked post before it was even on my screen, look at the time-stamp -_-. I do still think you're scum, if this is your town play, then I had a very different picture in my head of what town Probulous should look like.
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On March 08 2012 09:31 Adam4167 wrote:What kind of stupid scum strategy is it to attack the most townie looking person? Scum buddy the big townie while picking them off at night.
Is this a town strategy then? I don't get it Adam. You know you haven't been contributing, you even admit that and are now trying to use that as an explanation for you being town? Then when you do contribute it is to put a weak case on the most townie person here. What townie does that? Your job is to find scum and by the effort you put into your case on me it is clear you don't want to. It makes more sense from a mafia perspective as it causes confusion and disrupts the town. If you were town and really thought I was scum, you would have put together your case properly. You would have built it and posted it when you were sure. The fact that your half-assed attempt was posted straight after I made my case on you confirms you didn't really think I was scum.
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Why do you assume that I would only do thing in that manner? Scum are cold and calculating, they wont post something half assed for fear of making mistakes. Again, more WIFOM from both of us.
I started writing that as the day post came down, the fact that you stated you wanted to lynch me was coincidental. My job is to find scum, yes, I had a read on you, so I voiced it. Wheres the problem? could my read be wrong? absolutely. Doesn't mean i'm just going to keep it to myself.
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On March 08 2012 09:39 Adam4167 wrote: You say "Adam is more important today. He has the ability to sway people with flimsy cases". Implying I need to die first because of what i'm saying.
Of course I didn't answer your question, I clicked post before it was even on my screen, look at the time-stamp -_-. I do still think you're scum, if this is your town play, then I had a very different picture in my head of what town Probulous should look like.
How would a townie Probulous read your case then? You didn't put any effort into it. It was a quick on the fly mish-mash with no coherent explanation as to why I am scum. I know that you take time with your cases and present them clearly when you're town. I have been on the receiving end of your voting analysis. I know you can do so much better. Your choice of timing and the chaotic nature of the case makes me think it was done in a rush. That doesn't fit with you being town. Town Adam would work out why I was attacking him and clarify that. I am losing my enjoyment of the term OMGUS but that it what your your case looks like.
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On March 08 2012 09:45 Adam4167 wrote: Why do you assume that I would only do thing in that manner? Scum are cold and calculating, they wont post something half assed for fear of making mistakes. Again, more WIFOM from both of us.
I started writing that as the day post came down, the fact that you stated you wanted to lynch me was coincidental. My job is to find scum, yes, I had a read on you, so I voiced it. Wheres the problem? could my read be wrong? absolutely. Doesn't mean i'm just going to keep it to myself.
I have responded to your case and the only thing I can find that shows a definite scum driven agenda is my lack of calling out Pandain on his 180 read on you. Now, as I explained I believe he is town. You believe he is town, so what does him having a change of read have to do with my alignment? That would only make sense if we both scum but you don't believe that. Your case has more holes than a colander.
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For those wondering what I am going on about when I say I know Adam is more careful and logical when he is town look at his filter from Newbie Mini Mafia III.
Here are two examples of what I mean
On February 01 2012 13:05 Adam4167 wrote:Right. I'm resorting to paint here (oh gawd) to try and get a clearer picture of what everyone is saying. After taking in everyone's reads, I find these are the two most likely scum teams: Chocoloate/Zelblade or Simberto/SacredSystem As we begin to flip more of these names, this picture will solve itself. I am content with flipping anyone in the above diagram, with a special preference for Chocolate for the previously mentioned reasons.
On February 01 2012 12:09 Adam4167 wrote:After rereading the thread in its entirety, ive noticed something. Zarepath pushing CosmosXAM as a lynch candidate on day 1 stemmed partly from CosmosXAM pointing the finger a Chocolate for being 'suspicious'. This is a textbook example of what is known as a 'Chainsaw Defense', which is when one mafia gets attacked by a townie, another mafia attacks the accuser to deflect suspicion back on the townie. Its right Here at the bottom of that horrible WIFOM'ey defense of FakePromise. Add on top of this, both times I've called him mafia, hes come out of lurker mode. I'm seeing too much in favor of voting for Chocolate, and not enough redeeming him. ##Vote ChocolateOne thing that sticks out to me in Simberto's filter is the continual redirects onto balt11t. And There Are Lots And Lots Of ThemSo I guess I am posed with the question of was he doing this to pick up the 'town cred' after we inevitably killed balt? (because lets face it, that was going to happen, sooner rather than later)
The town effort and logic is so completely different to what he is displaying here. His case on me has no overiding logic because I am town.
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Him having a complete 180 in his read on me and then you just accepting it without even so much as a query, is what piqued my interest. Your argument about me 'holding onto my suspicion' until day 3 is void because I specifically stated here that pushing the case i wanted to push (read: YOU) was not going to result in anything worthwhile with only 3 hours left until the lynch.
I spent the entire day 2 of Newbie Mafia 3 defending a mafia against the entire town, hence why I poked fun at myself for defending Sandroba, again as town. I figured you of all people might have got that one since you played in the same game.
Trying to meta me and then taking one example of my good play while ignoring the rest is confirmation bias. I outed half of the towns blues in Arkham and then went on to hang someone I had just confirmed 12 hours earlier to lose the game, as town. I play badly, it happens.
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If you truly are town, then I suggest you take a hard look at everyone that is sitting back right now doing nothing. I know I wouldn't interrupt this as mafia.
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##Unvote ##Vote Bluelightz
This feels more right as of now. Bluelightz deserves to die.
When I get home from work tonight I'm going to reread the thread again and try and untangle this mess, but I have the same feeling for Bluelightz as I did for Sandroba, and that is that no matter what he flips, he deserves to be lynched and I can be happy with that.
Still 25.5 hours to go though, who knows what will be said that can't be unsaid.
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On March 08 2012 09:17 Snarfs wrote: Well, actually, if for some strange reason Adam flips town then I would consider it... But then we are getting low on townspeople.
We're at 6-2-1 right now assuming an SK. If we mess this lynch up we could potentially be at a worst case of [b]3-2-1[b] if mafia and SK both kill a townie.
I mean, this lynch is so important for town today. Where're the contributions from AKCT, Bluelightz, Pandain, etc.??
Ummm wait a minute here. Total number of mafia is hidden in this game. How is it you seem to know how many scum players there are in this game??
I suppose you could have guessed/reasoned from balance, but you didn't say that. You didn't even bother to share your reasoning as to why you think there were 3 scum to start off with. Why would you go out of the way to point out that you are assuming the existence of the SK but not to mention you are assuming numbers on Mafia?
Explain please.
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On March 08 2012 10:37 TheToast wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2012 09:17 Snarfs wrote: Well, actually, if for some strange reason Adam flips town then I would consider it... But then we are getting low on townspeople.
We're at 6-2-1 right now assuming an SK. If we mess this lynch up we could potentially be at a worst case of [b]3-2-1[b] if mafia and SK both kill a townie.
I mean, this lynch is so important for town today. Where're the contributions from AKCT, Bluelightz, Pandain, etc.?? Ummm wait a minute here. Total number of mafia is hidden in this game. How is it you seem to know how many scum players there are in this game?? I suppose you could have guessed/reasoned from balance, but you didn't say that. You didn't even bother to share your reasoning as to why you think there were 3 scum to start off with. Why would you go out of the way to point out that you are assuming the existence of the SK but not to mention you are assuming numbers on Mafia? Explain please. Sorry, I just assumed that these games are all typically balanced the same. 4 anti-town to 10 town made sense to me.
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Although, looking back at the last Wiggles Mini now, it's very possible that I'm overestimating the number of anti-town players.
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@TheToast: Any objections to lynching Bluelightz?
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I have enough time right now, so i'm going to also sit down and reread the entire thread.
Probably twice. Once assuming nothing, second time ill assuming my read is wrong and Probulous is town.
Lets see where this goes.
##Unvote
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On March 08 2012 09:07 Snarfs wrote:You know what? After reading quotes like this: Show nested quote +anyway staying lurkerish but not being ompletely inactive actually gets you off the mind of people XD and this: Show nested quote +I Think my lurkerish state is lurkerish enough to stop a case being made on me ^_^ in the quick topic Adam linked earlier on Bluelightz, I would be very happy to lynch Bluelightz today. I realized Adam's link doesn't go straight to the mafia QT for that game.
Here it is for easy reference: http://www.quicktopic.com/47/H/sBtbs6s2Fwh
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On March 08 2012 10:54 Snarfs wrote: @TheToast: Any objections to lynching Bluelightz?
Objections? No. Am I convinced he's scum? Not entirely.
Let me quote what I said before:
As far as Bluelightz goes; lynching him is tricky business. Based on the game I played with him and the past games of his that I've looked through, he is such a bad town player that he is impossible to get a decent read off of. In NMM 1 I was pretty convinced through most of the game he was mafia just because his posting was so random and contained so much fluff. Turns out he was town, but I honestly think we would have been better off lynching him early on to eliminate him as a suspect and stop him from muddying the waters (which I believe I used as an argument for his lynching in that game). If the votes are there at the end of the day, I'll support his lynch but I seriously think he could flip either way.
One of the things I used as evidence for his lynching in Nprmal Mini Mafia 1 was that his posting in one of the Newbie Mini games (where he was scum) was exactly the same as his posting in Normal Mini 1. He was actually scum in Newbie and town in Normal. I later realized that he posts the same crap no matter his alignment and is therefore almost impossible to get a read on. For what it's worth, I honestly think if we had lynched him day one in Normal Mini I like I wanted to, town could have won that game. He distracts from scum and focuses attention needlessly on himself with random accusations and completely pointless posts. Check some of his previous games and you will note that 50% of his posts are him telling people that he's going to sleep. Serves nothing other than to muddy the waters and make it harder to hunt scum.
So do I think he's mafia? I have no fucking clue. Guy could be the SK and he would be posting the same.
Would I object to lynching him? Absolutely not. He contributes nothing as a town player and really only hurts town in the long run.
On a side note, Paper is looking townish to me. I'll elaborate further at the end of Day 3 when I can take a look at all his posts for the day....
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After rereading the thread with no assumptions i still get back to where I was before, a nagging feeling that Prob will flip red. That's my read, take it or leave it. If you are red Prob, then you've done a great job of convincing everyone else that you're town, so much so that I'd say this game is probably unrecoverable.
Upon second reading assuming Prob is town, it is probably the best move to kill Bluelightz. Toast is exactly right, he could flip either way, hes a permanent null read for me, but via process of elimination, he looks good to die. I don't want to lynch Pandain, Paperscraps, Snarfs, TheToast or Probulous (still operating under the assumption that he is town) which leaves me with Bluelightz, deconduo and AKCT.
##Vote Bluelightz
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On March 08 2012 12:55 Adam4167 wrote: After rereading the thread with no assumptions i still get back to where I was before, a nagging feeling that Prob will flip red. That's my read, take it or leave it. If you are red Prob, then you've done a great job of convincing everyone else that you're town, so much so that I'd say this game is probably unrecoverable.
Upon second reading assuming Prob is town, it is probably the best move to kill Bluelightz. Toast is exactly right, he could flip either way, hes a permanent null read for me, but via process of elimination, he looks good to die. I don't want to lynch Pandain, Paperscraps, Snarfs, TheToast or Probulous (still operating under the assumption that he is town) which leaves me with Bluelightz, deconduo and AKCT.
##Vote Bluelightz
It is a wonderous thing to see, when a scum finally realises that he should bus, but far, far too late.
##Vote Bluelightz
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On March 08 2012 13:26 A Killer Cuppa Tea wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2012 12:55 Adam4167 wrote: After rereading the thread with no assumptions i still get back to where I was before, a nagging feeling that Prob will flip red. That's my read, take it or leave it. If you are red Prob, then you've done a great job of convincing everyone else that you're town, so much so that I'd say this game is probably unrecoverable.
Upon second reading assuming Prob is town, it is probably the best move to kill Bluelightz. Toast is exactly right, he could flip either way, hes a permanent null read for me, but via process of elimination, he looks good to die. I don't want to lynch Pandain, Paperscraps, Snarfs, TheToast or Probulous (still operating under the assumption that he is town) which leaves me with Bluelightz, deconduo and AKCT.
##Vote Bluelightz It is a wonderous thing to see, when a scum finally realises that he should bus, but far, far too late. ##Vote Bluelightz Why would you say this and then vote for Bluelightz instead of Adam?
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##Unvote Just finished rereading the thread, need to dump some thoughts.
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For a "confirmed townie", A Killer Cuppa Tea is playing pretty bad. Especially for someone who claims that he has played "a pretty large amount of games.
Before that though: Hi! I'm AKillerCuppaTea, but you can call me Tea. I'm from the UK. My experience of mafia on TL is none whatsoever, but I have played a pretty large amount of games on a number of other forums as well as irc. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=299955¤tpage=16#304
Pandain hasn't come back to support his extremely quick vote for Paperscraps, but he was online about 7 hours after it. On rereading the thread, my case against Paper was pretty bad. The only decent cases started coming out against Paper after Pandain's vote, not before. He couldn't use that as evidence so why was he so quick to jump on Paper?
We know Pandain is capable of orchestrating... pretty much anything. Is it possible that a scum team of Tea, Sandroba, and Pandain came up with this plan from the start?
Palmar claimed that he would bet on this being a town-Pandain, but he also said he'd lynch him for being bad anyways. Plus, there's the whole 'throw my vote on the guy who's claiming blue because he's under a little scrutiny'.
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Jackal, Probulous, and Palmar all claimed at one point earlier that Adam was giving them bad vibes for different reasons.
Adam tried to make a case against Probulous?
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Bluelightz has been absent most of the game. He has contributed 2 posts of worth. One was an attack on Paper that was worse than mine, and the other was a list of players with his scum readings. Either of which could have come from either town or scum.
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After consideration, I'm going to put my vote back on Adam for now. Palmar said at the beginning of the game that if a vet dies, we should make sure we go back and give their reads a chance. Both Jackal and Palmar had bad feelings about Adam and I trust their reads far more than I trust my own.
That being said, I feel that Adam's attack against Probulous and his switch to Bluelightz with a null read were both quite scummy. I voted Bluelightz because I convinced myself he was scum. I still think that either he's scum or he should have asked for a replacement ages ago, but I've been told by multiple people that this is how he plays. I think it is too late to lynch Bluelightz for being a null read. If he turns up town this game, I will certainly back any Lynch Bluelightz day 1 policies in the future.
As to the attack against Probulous, he claims that he had his case ready on March 06 2012 08:55. Then he finally pushes it on March 07 2012 13:43 after first being called out by Probulous?
Sorry it took me for taking so long to get to this conclusion, but:
##Vote Adam4167
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Alright guys school if fucking over, time to read up on the thread.If you guys gonna blast me with any fuck please feel free ^_^
AKCT's vote = WTF?
"It is a wonderous thing to see, when a scum finally realises that he should bus, but far, far too late.
##Vote Bluelightz"
WTF is this? you are jumping on a bandwagon and your opinion is just that its far too late for scum to bus?
I don't even know but this guy needs to be watched
Snarfs: AKCT is not "confimed" town people just think that he's town over the fake claim thing.
Adam's vote =
"After rereading the thread with no assumptions i still get back to where I was before, a nagging feeling that Prob will flip red. That's my read, take it or leave it. If you are red Prob, then you've done a great job of convincing everyone else that you're town, so much so that I'd say this game is probably unrecoverable.
Upon second reading assuming Prob is town, it is probably the best move to kill Bluelightz. Toast is exactly right, he could flip either way, hes a permanent null read for me, but via process of elimination, he looks good to die. I don't want to lynch Pandain, Paperscraps, Snarfs, TheToast or Probulous (still operating under the assumption that he is town) which leaves me with Bluelightz, deconduo and AKCT.
##Vote Bluelightz"
I look good to die? Alright I understand Ive been useless, lurking, hurting town(if you put it at that)
But, why did you think I tried to start discussion early in the game? To hurt town? I Started discussion early game to get a good atmostphere for town to start hunting scum and get a consensus on how does town want to lynch.
I ignored Snarf's vote because he unvoted but, we should watch him.
I am going to read Adam's filter now.
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Hmm, I think that there is that chance of Adam is town......
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On March 08 2012 18:14 Bluelightz wrote: Hmm, I think that there is that chance of Adam is town......
You're right and if you were scum, you'd be sailing me down the river right now. So I think you're town.
##Unvote
I think my lynch is inevitable today, that's OK. Ill try to get some thoughts out before my flip.
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Bluelightz, who do you think is scum?
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On March 08 2012 12:55 Adam4167 wrote: ##Vote Bluelightz
On March 08 2012 13:26 A Killer Cuppa Tea wrote: It is a wonderous thing to see, when a scum finally realises that he should bus, but far, far too late.
On March 08 2012 18:14 Bluelightz wrote: Hmm, I think that there is that chance of Adam is town......
On March 08 2012 18:19 Adam4167 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2012 18:14 Bluelightz wrote: Hmm, I think that there is that chance of Adam is town......
You're right and if you were scum, you'd be sailing me down the river right now. So I think you're town. ##Unvote
Could you guys BE any more obvious.
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On March 04 2012 20:33 Palmar wrote: There is no sensible reason to disbelieve pandain's claim, so AKCT is going to have to claim. Now, he can't really claim medic because the chances of scum double stacking rgTS on night 1 seem very slim.
If he claims vig we lynch him, because that shot was beyond stupid.
so what's left are the tracker and the watcher. I just don't think we have multiple of those in such a small setup. He can't exactly claim watcher either because that way he'd know who visited rgTS, so I guess he's going to counterclaim tracker or something? Or try to make us believe we have more than one?
For this reason I am going to disbelieve any claim he claims. The only reasonable claim for him from a balance/viability standpoint i claiming watcher and point to a random townie and getting that player lynched, but in this case we lynch him anyway, and before we lynch the guy he points a finger at.
Pretty sure the was Palmar breadcrumbing his watcher claim. I can't find any Night 1 result breadcrumb though. Possibly this:
On March 07 2012 09:05 Palmar wrote: I am a soft kitty
On March 07 2012 09:07 Palmar wrote:sometimes I just wanna cuddle
But thats either spam or too cryptic for me.
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On March 08 2012 21:34 deconduo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2012 13:26 A Killer Cuppa Tea wrote: It is a wonderous thing to see, when a scum finally realises that he should bus, but far, far too late.
Show nested quote +On March 08 2012 18:14 Bluelightz wrote: Hmm, I think that there is that chance of Adam is town......
Show nested quote +On March 08 2012 18:19 Adam4167 wrote:On March 08 2012 18:14 Bluelightz wrote: Hmm, I think that there is that chance of Adam is town......
You're right and if you were scum, you'd be sailing me down the river right now. So I think you're town. ##Unvote Could you guys BE any more obvious.
OK, I put to you a hypothetical. What direction do you plan on going tomorrow after I flip town? Obviously if I flip scum, you're going to want to go after bluelightz, but humor me for a minute and tell me what happens when I flip town.
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Alright sorry Adam for going black :S
I think that AKCT is scum, because of him just throwing out a vote like that with no reasoning at ALL.
##Vote: A Killer Cuppa Tea
I will check in again tommorow b4 the deadline to see if I need to change my vote to someone more worthy.
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Heh.
Just cos I didn't put much reasoning in my post (which is a fallacy, incidentally, there is plenty of reason in my post, more then enough to find you scummy, I simply said it in fewer words then you're prolly used to), doesn't mean i didn't have any reason at all.
I think you are scum for a large variety of reasons, and mr stating them here would simply be repeating what has been done to the death today. Also, I'm on my phone right now* so it's much harder to make a wall on you.
*I owe an apology here: I have not been very active. Without trying to make excuses, basically my laptop decided to have a hissy fit and explode on me, and pretty much went out of commission. I've taken it in for repairs and it's finally repaired, and I should be picking it up today. Sorry >_<
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Alright I think your town now, Im gonna read some filters then if I find anything interesting I'll vote for the guy
and... unvote akct
##Unvote
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Can we have an updated player count on who's alive?
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I'm gonna vote myself as a placeholder vote right now, I will try and vote for someone else tommorow
##Vote: Bluelightz
sidenote: good night people.
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Current Vote Count:
Adam4167 -4 Deconduo Paperscraps Snarfs Probulous
Bluelightz -2 Bluelightz A Killer Cuppa Tea
Adam4167
Snarfs
Paperscraps -1
Deconduo Pandain
A Killer Cuppa Tea -0
Bluelightz
Probulous -0
Adam4167
If there is a mistake, please let me know. Day ends in roughly 10 and a half hours. Please remember to vote before then, if you have not done so.
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On March 08 2012 21:45 deconduo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2012 20:33 Palmar wrote: There is no sensible reason to disbelieve pandain's claim, so AKCT is going to have to claim. Now, he can't really claim medic because the chances of scum double stacking rgTS on night 1 seem very slim.
If he claims vig we lynch him, because that shot was beyond stupid.
so what's left are the tracker and the watcher. I just don't think we have multiple of those in such a small setup. He can't exactly claim watcher either because that way he'd know who visited rgTS, so I guess he's going to counterclaim tracker or something? Or try to make us believe we have more than one?
For this reason I am going to disbelieve any claim he claims. The only reasonable claim for him from a balance/viability standpoint i claiming watcher and point to a random townie and getting that player lynched, but in this case we lynch him anyway, and before we lynch the guy he points a finger at. Pretty sure the was Palmar breadcrumbing his watcher claim. I can't find any Night 1 result breadcrumb though. Possibly this: But thats either spam or too cryptic for me. As I pointed out before, soft kitty could easily be serial killer. Sometimes I just wanna cuddle? Maybe he's pretending to say something the serial killer would say because he has a hunch. Just guessing at that one.
I realize now though that I could easily have got both the serial killer and the mafia wanting to kill Palmar night 2 by pointing that out . Serial killer because they want to make sure if he knows he isn't able to tell anyone. Mafia because it could look like he himself is claiming serial killer. If that's true, I'm sorry Palmar.
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I have voted for Adam as well
The "soft kitty" comment by Palmar is interesting, but I just thought it was Palmar being Palmar. I can't seem to find anything to tie it to watcher.
@Snarfs: If Pandain or AKCT is scum, do you think the other is scum necessarily?
Deconduo looking/finding breadcrumbs from Palmar seems town to me, but I still have reservations on Deconduo actually being town.
Pandain right now is looking bad, being gone from the thread so long. But I will hold judgement and see if he posts anything relevant before lynching time.
Bluelightz has been playing weird the past day or so. (more weird than usual lol) The constant vote changing is the main thing that strikes me as odd. Although that can be attributed to him being easily swayed by anything pretty much. His self-vote is intriguing to say the least, even if it is a place holder. Sometimes I think Bluelightz is so smart that he has mastered the act of the fool, but other times I just do not know.
TheToast has not voted yet, so I am interested to hear what he thinks. Null read on TheToast right now.
Adam is a conundrum.
On March 08 2012 12:55 Adam4167 wrote: After rereading the thread with no assumptions i still get back to where I was before, a nagging feeling that Prob will flip red. That's my read, take it or leave it. If you are red Prob, then you've done a great job of convincing everyone else that you're town, so much so that I'd say this game is probably unrecoverable.
Upon second reading assuming Prob is town, it is probably the best move to kill Bluelightz. Toast is exactly right, he could flip either way, hes a permanent null read for me, but via process of elimination, he looks good to die. I don't want to lynch Pandain, Paperscraps, Snarfs, TheToast or Probulous (still operating under the assumption that he is town) which leaves me with Bluelightz, deconduo and AKCT.
I have some of the same conclusions as this post. My read on Probulous is pretty much the exact same thing. I just get a town vibe from this post.
On March 08 2012 22:07 Adam4167 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2012 21:34 deconduo wrote:On March 08 2012 12:55 Adam4167 wrote: ##Vote Bluelightz On March 08 2012 13:26 A Killer Cuppa Tea wrote: It is a wonderous thing to see, when a scum finally realises that he should bus, but far, far too late.
On March 08 2012 18:14 Bluelightz wrote: Hmm, I think that there is that chance of Adam is town......
On March 08 2012 18:19 Adam4167 wrote:On March 08 2012 18:14 Bluelightz wrote: Hmm, I think that there is that chance of Adam is town......
You're right and if you were scum, you'd be sailing me down the river right now. So I think you're town. ##Unvote Could you guys BE any more obvious. OK, I put to you a hypothetical. What direction do you plan on going tomorrow after I flip town? Obviously if I flip scum, you're going to want to go after bluelightz, but humor me for a minute and tell me what happens when I flip town.
This post I am not sure about. Adam has been hard for me to read all game. I still lean scum though.
AKCT I think is scum as well. Which makes me wonder, why did Bluelightz unvoted him so quickly?
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Oh also, I didn't analyze Snarfs and Probu, because they are my strongest town reads. Although Probu has been overly town and sometimes that is scummy, but I dont think it is the case this game.
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On March 09 2012 02:12 Paperscraps wrote: @Snarfs: If Pandain or AKCT is scum, do you think the other is scum necessarily?
No, I don't think that if one of them should turn up scum that we should just assume the other one is. I do think it's evidence against the other person though.
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On March 09 2012 05:14 Pandain wrote: hmmmm
>.>
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Before I go on, I want everyone to remember that this is the work of 24 hours of constant lurking, re reading, re-re reading, going through each filter again and again, rereading thread in entirety, and even night time pondering.
I don't believe Paperscraps. I feel people are beliving he is town merely because he claimed vig. Everyone seems to have forgotten this role....
On February 25 2012 12:25 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Vigilante: You are a Vigilante! Once per game, starting night 1, you may send in a night hit.
This doesn't mean its scum, but it does make us remember that there are now three possibilities for Paperscraps to be:
1. Serial killer. 2. Mafia Vigilante 3. Vigilante
Him claiming vigilante in no way makes him town. Rather, we must analyze two things in determining his alignment:
1. His reasoning/motivation behind shooting Jackal 2. His posts/votes this game(Normal Analysis)
I'll be posting more once I make sense of everything.....
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On March 09 2012 06:16 Pandain wrote:Before I go on, I want everyone to remember that this is the work of 24 hours of constant lurking, re reading, re-re reading, going through each filter again and again, rereading thread in entirety, and even night time pondering. I don't believe Paperscraps. I feel people are beliving he is town merely because he claimed vig. Everyone seems to have forgotten this role.... Show nested quote +On February 25 2012 12:25 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Vigilante: You are a Vigilante! Once per game, starting night 1, you may send in a night hit.
This doesn't mean its scum, but it does make us remember that there are now three possibilities for Paperscraps to be: 1. Serial killer.2. Mafia Vigilante 3. Vigilante Him claiming vigilante in no way makes him town. Rather, we must analyze two things in determining his alignment: 1. His reasoning/motivation behind shooting Jackal 2. His posts/votes this game(Normal Analysis) I'll be posting more once I make sense of everything.....
Don't forget 4. Mafia Goon/Medic
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Decondou I think your town and value your opinion, what do you make of paperscraps claim?
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On March 09 2012 06:16 Pandain wrote:Before I go on, I want everyone to remember that this is the work of 24 hours of constant lurking, re reading, re-re reading, going through each filter again and again, rereading thread in entirety, and even night time pondering. I don't believe Paperscraps. I feel people are beliving he is town merely because he claimed vig. Everyone seems to have forgotten this role.... Show nested quote +On February 25 2012 12:25 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Vigilante: You are a Vigilante! Once per game, starting night 1, you may send in a night hit.
I haven't forgotten, in fact I've brought up the possibility of a mafia vig like half a dozen times. Did you even read my posts about determining if there was an SK (and why it's not possible unless we can confirm sandro's claim)?
Here's the deal, I've been reading through Paper's posts. I said before that he was leaning town in my opinion but now I'm not so sure. What I was initially looking at was his consistency:
+ Show Spoiler [lots o' quotes] +Working backwards chronologically: My top scum reads are TheToast, Jackal and Deconduo Jackal are all better lynches. I don't know if we should lynch Sandroba yet Jackal has posted no substance at all. His reaction to the Misder lynch was over done. Three people voted Misder: Deconduo, AKCT and Jackal. They all give me a scum vibe Jackal's filter takes 5 seconds to read Jackal - Has posted nothing of substance. A lot of people fosed Jackal at the end of the night. Jackal even posted right after me, so he was obviously around, but didn't post relevant material during the night.
There's clearly a lot of consistancy in pushing Jackal here. Granted that doesn't prove he's town, the whole thing could be a part of a really good strategy to cover himself as the SK. But this seems unlikely, and I think one would be hard pressed to look at the evidence and come up with that conclusion. So from this viewpoint he's looking townish.
But that doesn't explain away his terrible reads:
I can see a bit of a team forming between Decon and Jackal right now.
Now that we've seen Jackal flip, looking through some of these "reads" makes them look a lot like tunneling than actual analysis. Of all the people who've flipped, Paper at some point argued the opposite for:
Palmar is playing weird this game so far. He might be scum.
If Sandroba is mafia, then why lurk and post crap and be sure to get lynched. Does Sandroba just not care about the game? Maybe just a bored vanilla townie?
Honestly I think Sandroba is SK that is claiming a fake hit
***Hmmmm, my gut tells me that Sandroba is vet *** followed by ***Inb4 people say I am scum trying to make myself look townie "if" Sandroba flips vet. ***
***The last two here are really interesting. I want to go back to something I said before. If the hit against Sandro was real, and it came from the SK: the SK would be likely to believe Sandro's vet claim. After all, the SK would know that Sandro got shot and didn't die, why wouldn't you believe the vet claim? And the SK would have a lot to gain here, by being the one to vote against Sandro (who they think is blue) they could potentially solidify themselves as town and potentially as someone with good anlysis and become relatively safe for the remainder of the game. Paper, Jackle, and AKCT were the only votes not on Sandro day 2....
To me, this radically shifts Paper's possible alignment. However this evidence swings greatly on the validity of Sandro's claim. I said before that we couldn't lynch anyone based only on that given the fact that Sandro was confirmed scum. So, for the moment, I am not comfortable supporting a lynch on Paper based on this. But consider this a strong FOS on him as the SK.
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Pandain, him being a mafia Vig makes even less sense unless you think his mafia buddy would let him claim like that. It is effectively the same as his being mafia. Can you respond to this post for me please.
On March 08 2012 08:04 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 19:33 deconduo wrote: Given the missing KP, I'm inclined to think Paper is SK, and was worried about being tracked. Jackal was a blue read for me, which would explain why Paper would go after him. When none of the bodies flipped Tracker, he claimed the shot figuring if he didn't he'd lynched on the spot if he had been tracked. Its a bit of a stretch, but I can't see anything else that makes more sense. It also explains why he would wait for the day post. This seems to be the crux of the issue. If Paper was worried about being tracked he would have to claim the shot. Now unfortunately that makes sense whether he is a Vig, Mafia or SK. If he is worried that someone has seen him shoot then he needs to claim even if he is blue. Otherwise they claim and his counterclaim looks terrible, so the claim itself doesn't make him scum. As for waiting for the day post that again doesn't make sense from a mafia, vig or SK POV. If he was worried about being tracked it would have better if he was any of these roles to claim before the day post. Again that would lend his claim credibility, regardless of whether he was vig, mafia or SK. I honestly think it was a mistake or just not knowing what to do in that case. This makes me think he is either a Vig or SK, his mafia buddy would surely have pointed that out to him (a tad of WIFOM here so tread with caution). Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 22:42 deconduo wrote: I don't think its a stretch to think we'd have a Tracker + Watcher but no medic. However, what I think doesn't really matter, its what Paper thought at the day post. He claimed exactly one minute after the post, so he didn't have time to think about his decision. He was obviously waiting for something, and was going base his claim on the contents of the day post. Yes, he was waiting to see whether Jackal died. The problem as above, is that you have separate the motivations between a Vig, mafia or SK shot and his timing is bad for all three. Show nested quote +On March 08 2012 03:09 Paperscraps wrote: I wanted town to know as much as possible about how the KP was distributed. In hindsight I should have claimed before day post, but this is the first time I have been a vig in a forum game. A lot of people fosed Jackal at the end of the night. Jackal even posted right after me, so he was obviously around, but didn't post relevant material during the night. If he had scum hunted during the night that would have swayed my decision. This is where we can tell whether Paperscraps is town or not. His motivation for shooting Jackal. He says that Jackal was looking scummy, which is true. He had FOS'd Jackal since the Misder vote. Yes he was on decon more but it was not like he suddenly decided Jackal was scum. This quote in hindsight looks promising Show nested quote +On March 06 2012 20:58 Paperscraps wrote:It seems like everyone thinks Decon is town except for me, so I could very well be wrong. I will be objective about this and look into the filters of others I think are scummy. inb4 "you are backpedaling scum"
Note this post from Toast Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 07:16 TheToast wrote: If Sandro's claim is true, and there is an SK; top people to question/track/watch should be Paper, and Jackal. It is not unreasonable for Paper to believe he was being tracked. He was on the scummy list of a few people and had been called out in the thread as a track target. In conclusion, as shocking as this sounds I believe Paperscraps is a vigilante. I think he second guessed himself about Decon and so shot his second target. He was concerned about being tracked so claimed the hit when he thought it best. The hope was that he would have his named cleared when Jackal flipped scum. Was it the best play? Hell no but it makes sense to me. If nothing else note his persistance in trying to clear his name. He is clearly frustrated but is putting in the effort to try and make his thinking clear. Compare that to Adam, who is apparently still too busy to participate. Decon I agree it would be nice to lower KP with a SK lynch but I don't believe that Paper is the SK (if we have one). We lynch Adam today.
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Switching gears a bit:
On March 09 2012 06:16 Pandain wrote:Before I go on, I want everyone to remember that this is the work of 24 hours of constant lurking, re reading, re-re reading, going through each filter again and again, rereading thread in entirety, and even night time pondering. I don't believe Paperscraps. I feel people are beliving he is town merely because he claimed vig. Everyone seems to have forgotten this role.... Show nested quote +On February 25 2012 12:25 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Vigilante: You are a Vigilante! Once per game, starting night 1, you may send in a night hit.
This doesn't mean its scum, but it does make us remember that there are now three possibilities for Paperscraps to be: 1. Serial killer.2. Mafia Vigilante 3. Vigilante Him claiming vigilante in no way makes him town. Rather, we must analyze two things in determining his alignment: 1. His reasoning/motivation behind shooting Jackal 2. His posts/votes this game(Normal Analysis) I'll be posting more once I make sense of everything.....
Pandain, we haven't heard so much as a peep out of you for like 30 hours, and you come back with this fluff-filled post? Why was it necessary to quote the OP? Why was it necessary to quote THE WHOLE description of the Mafia Vig? Like we can't figure out what the Mafia Vig might be?
And what's with that last line (the one I bolded)? In 36 hours and you need more time to "make sense" of things? What the hell have you been doing?
And this post contains not one BUT TWO pointless lists? This reeks of scummy fluff.
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On March 09 2012 06:28 Pandain wrote: Decondou I think your town and value your opinion, what do you make of paperscraps claim?
SK. If not SK, probably town, because there's no way his mafia parter(s) would allow him to make a claim as dumb as that. However given his play and the fact that the KP adds up, I'm pretty sure he's SK.
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Probulous you broke my train
Anyway, for Day 3 I think Pandain and Adam are the best votes right now.
While there is a good case against Paper, it really does hinge on Sandro's claim. While I think his claim was real (Probulous made a good point somewhere about this) lynching someone based on it just risks too much in terms of walking into a scum trap. If someone sees something I missed that adds to the evidence then I would say he should be lynched but right now the evidence is so circumstancial....
Bluelightz is.... idk wtf we should do with him. As I said getting a read on him is almost impossible. And if he is town and we lynch him, that't not necessarily bad. He doesn't contribute at all. I just don't know where that fits in terms of lynch priority. There is a decent case for Adam being scum, but a Bluelightz lynch could help town regardless of his alignment (and we could be lucky and he's the SK). And Pandain is shady as fuck.
So I'm a bit lost on what the priority should be right now
Thoughts?
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On March 09 2012 06:56 TheToast wrote: ***The last two here are really interesting. I want to go back to something I said before. If the hit against Sandro was real, and it came from the SK: the SK would be likely to believe Sandro's vet claim. After all, the SK would know that Sandro got shot and didn't die, why wouldn't you believe the vet claim?
Because the shot could have been blocked by a mafia medic (turned out to be true, if there was a shot). You're making big assumptions here Toast. We have no concrete proof there is a SK. It all rests on whether sandro's claim was a fake claim or not and whether Paper is a Vig (mafia or town).
I think Paper is more likely to flip town than mafia or SK. He spotlighted Jackal from the start and then doubted himself on decon. It makes sense that his second choice shot would be Jackal. Now yes this could be a long term mafia play, but we can't know that until we can confirm the existence of a SK.
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On March 09 2012 07:03 TheToast wrote: And Pandain is shady as fuck.
Thoughts? While I know there are a few people who I've pointed out as being shady, Paperscraps right at the top of the list, this is something I can keep coming back to agree on.
Notice how when asking for someone else's opinion on Paper, he asks the only other guy to have voted for him today? That's shadddddy.
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On March 09 2012 07:06 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 06:56 TheToast wrote: ***The last two here are really interesting. I want to go back to something I said before. If the hit against Sandro was real, and it came from the SK: the SK would be likely to believe Sandro's vet claim. After all, the SK would know that Sandro got shot and didn't die, why wouldn't you believe the vet claim? Because the shot could have been blocked by a mafia medic (turned out to be true, if there was a shot). You're making big assumptions here Toast. We have no concrete proof there is a SK. It all rests on whether sandro's claim was a fake claim or not and whether Paper is a Vig (mafia or town). I think Paper is more likely to flip town than mafia or SK. He spotlighted Jackal from the start and then doubted himself on decon. It makes sense that his second choice shot would be Jackal. Now yes this could be a long term mafia play, but we can't know that until we can confirm the existence of a SK.
To the bolded part: I think if the SK shot someone, they didn't die, and then claimed vet it would make sense to believe them. It's would be a gamble but one that could pay off. If Sandro's claim is true and he got shot, I think there is really good evidence against Paper. The way he backed off of Sandro Day 2 when it was clear he was going to be lynched (and that reasoning too, "I have a gut feeling" what kind of reasoning is that?) just seemed strange.
Either way I agree with the fact that the SK's existance and Paper's alighment hinges entirely on Sandro's claim. This is exactly why I said I'm not supporting his lynch Day 3. (Though you were arguing earlier that it was a believable claim) We can't take the risk given what we know now for sure about Sandro.
Anyway re-read my post, I'm essentially arguing the same thing as you on Paper.
I listed all those time he called out Jackal as well (in the spoiler). Without considering Sandro's claim he looks townish. But I said before, I'm going to proceed as though Sandro's claim was real but not use it as the only evidence to lynch someone. That's the situation right here, so FOS: Paper but no vote until I can come up with some other evidence...
Back to the other issue, what do you think should be the D3 lynch priority?
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On March 09 2012 07:03 TheToast wrote: While there is a good case against Paper, it really does hinge on Sandro's claim. While I think his claim was real (Probulous made a good point somewhere about this) lynching someone based on it just risks too much in terms of walking into a scum trap. If someone sees something I missed that adds to the evidence then I would say he should be lynched but right now the evidence is so circumstancial....
Ok here is my thinking of the possible scenarios we have We have a SK
- SK hits sandroba who is saved by a mafia medic.
There is no reason for the SK not to shoot Night 1 and sandroba's claim was weak. If it was a fake claim you would expect more fanfare (WIFOM). If the claim was real then it must have come from the SK. This means there is a mafia medic.
- SK hits Palmar or Jackal.
This would explain the two kills but we can't tell which one the SK hits. We also can't tell whether Paper is lieing because Jackal or Palmar could have been double-stacked. A semi competent medic would have been protecting Palmar given his indentification of sandroba as scum so this is not completely farfetched.
There is no SK
- sandroba fake claims a shot.
He could have done this assuming there was a SK. Palmar and others had made it clear that they thought one exists for balance purposes. If people believed the claim it might help clear his name after the Day 1 vote. The problem with this is the manner in which he claimed.
- Paperscraps Vigs Jackal.
This explains the second killpoint regardless of whether Paper is scum or not. It would be reasonable for scum to shoot Palmar as he was the first to identify sandroba as scum. It was a risk if we have a medic but it paid off for them. Paper had previously outlined his suspicion of Jackal.
Ultimately we can't know given the information we have. The kill points won't help us identify whether Paper is lieing or not because Palmar/Jackal could have been doublestacked. So I think it is best to look at his motivations for his claim. I am yet to see a reasonable response to my case for his innocence. Until I do I won't be voting for him.
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On March 09 2012 07:24 TheToast wrote: Back to the other issue, what do you think should be the D3 lynch priority?
Adam4167
I think Paperscraps is a town vigilante. Yes I believe his claim because as I keep outlining the supposedly "scummy" things (eg. timing) about his claim are bad for town, mafia and SK so I don't see how it makes him scum. He was consistent in his FOS on Jackal and second guessed himself on decon.
As for Pandain, I am looking at his push for the sandroba lynch. Right now that is what makes him town in my mind but I am taking a closer look.
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On March 09 2012 07:38 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 07:24 TheToast wrote: Back to the other issue, what do you think should be the D3 lynch priority? Adam4167 I think Paperscraps is a town vigilante. Yes I believe his claim because as I keep outlining the supposedly "scummy" things (eg. timing) about his claim are bad for town, mafia and SK so I don't see how it makes him scum. He was consistent in his FOS on Jackal and second guessed himself on decon. As for Pandain, I am looking at his push for the sandroba lynch. Right now that is what makes him town in my mind but I am taking a closer look. I think you're confusing something. Pandain was never pushing for a Sandroba lynch. He was actively against it.
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On March 07 2012 09:59 Pandain wrote: Palmar is town or badass sk. Jackal COULD be SK but I'm leaning towards not. He's definitely not playing pro town.... bluelightz/adam/jackal one or more of them is mafia.
Given this Pandain, what is your current opinion of Adam? Despite the ruckus between us you haven't commented on it at all which is very odd given you thought he was possibly scum.
Would you vote for him over Paperscraps?
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On March 09 2012 07:42 Snarfs wrote: I think you're confusing something. Pandain was never pushing for a Sandroba lynch. He was actively against it. The more I read this game the more I realise I should be listening to you Still reading but yes he was actively against the sandroba lynch. I think my back and forth with him on the day convinced me otherwise. More to come.
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I also believed Toast was scum at that point which made Pandain look more towny. Anyway, here is my reading of Pandain's Day 2.
In this post (linky) I outlined why I thought it was possible that sandroba was scum. Specifically this
The issue I have with the veteran claim is the manner in which he claimed it. Most vets celebrate when they get shot, they have achieved their aim. His was a BTW sort of admission. Combined with his lurky play I don't believe his vet claim. That leaves SK or mafia. I don't agree with Pandain that he isn't being defended. Toast is pretty vehement that Pandain is scum. Chainsaw much?
A Sandroba lynch will confirm the existence of a Serial Killer if he flips Veteran (unlikely). If he flips scum we celebrate and we know they have a medic. If he flips SK we have removed a potential issue for town. He isn't playing well and I would guess would probably shoot town before he shoots scum. Pandain's response is
On March 06 2012 08:19 Pandain wrote: And toast is negligient, he merely is focused on me because I've been focused on him. He's been on me since day 1, and he hasn't supported Sandroba. There is effectively no support for Sandroba. But again, this only indicates he's not scum, as they wouldn't just let him(and he wouldn't be so lethargic about getting lynched), die when theres a valid excuse. But I'm not even denying that Sandroba is probably scum. The key fact is that by lynching him we effectively waste a day to either confirm what we already assumed(he's SK), or the fact that he's a vet(in which case we just lynched a town woopdie doo). If we make him unable to shoot for fear of getting caught, then we don't even have to worry about him harming town. His argument was that the SK would not shoot if he was being tracked. This is a stupid argument because it assume sandroba is the SK. If he is the serial killer, you make him swing because he does not win with town. Yes he can shoot mafia but we have no guarantee he will and in the meantime could shoot townies instead. I explained this to Toast in a later post (linky). I then responded to Pandain's case with this post (linky). Especially this bit
On March 06 2012 08:28 Probulous wrote:You reasoning rests of two assumptions - He is the SK
- Mafia would defend him if he was scum
The first can only be confirmed by a flip. The second is big. He was scummy since Day 1 and was almost lynched. Then he was shot overnight. Despite all this he has not attempted to provide any analysis at all. Anyone straight up defending him would have to use really weird logic or a chainsaw defense. Surely it is better to let him swing and waste town's time on someone who is clearly not town. Plus they can gain a little cred for his flip and can hide amongst the rest of the votes. I don't see why this is unlikely. If he is mafia they have a medic and he clearly isn't it (he can't protect himself). This spears his whole argument that sandroba can't be scum because no-one is defending him. His very next post is this one (linky)
On March 06 2012 08:37 Pandain wrote: I actually change my mind, but mainly for two reasons:
1. By having tracker continuously track him, it wastes tracker time when he could be finding more scum(and tracker tracking new people is arguably more important then finding out more evidence). 2. Mafia KP is hidden, so the SK might not actually exist. He doesn't even acknowledge my explanations for why mafia would bus him. The comes this lovely post
On March 06 2012 12:16 Pandain wrote: If you care to take a look, my thought process was clear and logical. No one ended up pointing out the flaws in the plan which I would later discover on my own, so when I did discover them I changed. I wouldn't change because of Toast lol. Yes you discovered errors in your logic but there were others pointed out that you refused to comment on. Since then it has been all troll and no substance. I agree with Toast that his latest attempt at providing information is a major source of fluff (linky) as it provides nothing we didn't know already.
Pandain accused me of spamming early game and I admit I do post a lot. But I always try and provide something with my posts. Pandain has spammed oneliners and crazy polls and pages of quotes and the only thing of substance he provided was a weak case to track sandroba instead of lynching him. He was suspicious of Adam but didn't comment when we went at each other. I think a Pandain, Adam scum team is likely.
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stop posting i have to keep adding to it because of you guys
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The thing is it doesn't matter whether he had pushed Jackal beforehand.....
Jackal was an easy target. Never posted and hardly a contribution, and was a vet. And they would've known he was town. Of course mafia would point at him.
Just because there's consistancy doesn't mean he's town..... you have to look at the whole portrait.
Take for example, his reads. He was suspicious of decon, jackal, and toast. Toast I actually am learning towards town now given the huge contributions he's been doing lately, trying to figure stuff out. Decon I'm almost certain is town. And Jackal, as we all know now, is town.
What has he done regarding the only confirmed mafia(sandroba) + Show Spoiler +Sandroba will by far be the easy lynch tomorrow and maybe rightly so. Posts one line content and filler. I don't agree with Sandroba's read on TheToast as of now. TheToast is null to me at the moment. I feel as though Sandroba might be too easy of a lynch. If Sandroba is mafia, then why lurk and post crap and be sure to get lynched. Does Sandroba just not care about the game? Maybe just a bored vanilla townie? Before the night ends, he states hish reasons against voting sandroba because "he's too easy." To be fair, When Sandroba claims, this is what he describes. Ok so Sandroba claims vet or saved by medic. Why would Sandroba have been targeted as all last night? I don't think a medic would have been on Sandroba either. Thus that leaves the vet claim. Honestly I think Sandroba is SK that is claiming a fake hit. However later he would backtrack, saying that we should not lynch him because he claimed............vet.(yeah, vet). Deconduo, TheToast, and Jackal are all better lynches. I don't know if we should lynch Sandroba yet, due to the hit claim. Sandroba is on ice though and needs to start contributing as do a lot of other players. After Sandroba basically gave up, Paper finally votes against him. On March 06 2012 05:02 Paperscraps wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2012 01:06 sandroba wrote: I'm busy as fuck right now and I'm already working towards being replaced. I'm veteran. I got shot last night. That's all the info I have good luck. If you aren't even going to try, then you are going to get lynched. ##Unvote##Vote Sandroba
Side note: TheToast is scum. Then we have this suspicious post. On March 06 2012 09:22 Paperscraps wrote: Hmmmm, my gut tells me that Sandroba is vet, but logic dictates that Sandroba is mafia/SK. This bandwagon on Sandroba went up pretty darn fast. But, alas Sandroba hasn't taken his vote off of AKCT and not putting up a fight at all.
This lynch on Sandroba doesn't feel right. I feel if I change my vote though, people will think that scummy.
Only one person died last night. Something doesn't fit here.
Going to change my vote anyways. Back to my "tunnel" on Deconduo, who has been coasting.
##Unvote
##Vote: Deconduo
Inb4 people say I am scum trying to make myself look townie "if" Sandroba flips vet. Read this post, over and over. There are many things that feel wrong in this post. From the "inb4 you guys call me scum" to the "going to change my vote anyways , this post just is oddly timed. Then he posts this, which is his longest post, and coincidentally because he was accused of being scum. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=315210&user=62048¤tpage=2 Note in this post he says he asked rg who he was going to shoot because "he wanted to play along." No , that's a horrible excuse. I can't even explain why its so wrong, just read it and realize why that 1. Isn't how you would do it. 2. Hurts town if he does say who he's going to shoot 3. is a anti town question in general.
Probulus, I feel that this is definitely a move to gain town cred. Whether he's mafia or SK I don't know yet, but I know that if I was mafia, I would pull off something like this. Think about it. You get to kill a townie and still "be town." What's there not good?
Since we don't have a detective, its impossible to differentiate a mafia vig and a town vig. The only benefit it had, was, in fact, being able to say "oh im vig."
I just don't feel like he would've shot jackal if he was town. Look at his posts. Before he was suspicious of Decondou. AFter he's suspicious of decondou. If he was more sure of Jackal then decondou(to the point where he would shoot him), he would've actually led a real charge on him. He changes his stories regarding why he shot him, going from "yeah I wasn't certain of decon, jackal seemed scummy" to
I shot Jackal over Decon, because I had doubts about Decon being scum and didn't have doubts about Jackal
In General: 1. Fosed the same people (decondou, toast, jackal.) who i believe are town. 2. Resisted the Sandroba lynch, voted him only when he gave up, and even back tracked after. 3. Questionable shooting and dubious reasoning.
I feel that definitely #2 is the weakest. But its evidence that he could, indeed, be mafia. The point I'm trying to make, is basically that mafia WOULD possibly do this because they had just lost sandroba, and given the lack of any vets besides me and decon, they're probably also doing dumb/risky stuff now too. Shooting Jackal as we all see clearly was a good move, as most of you believe him >.>
I personally believe that he is the SK. I feel like this would be the right way for an SK to try and gain town cred; presenting himself as a vig.
Also remember that Sandroba, mafia, got hit. As I highly doubt he would just randomly claim, this provides evidence for the fact that he must've gotten hit by either an SK or vig. Given the fact that no vig has claimed shooting him, there must be an sk.
Who do you guys think it is ?
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Also when I don't respond to you its because it was a dumb argument that I didn't need to respond to.
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Whilst that is certainly more substantial it is going to take some breaking down. I'm having a think and will get back to you. In the meantime do you still think Adam is suspicious and if so would you vote for him?
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Theres no one else besides Adam really.
On February 25 2012 12:25 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Player List: 1. Jackal58 Townie shot night 2 2. Paperscraps 3. Bluelightz- 4. Probulous 5. Snarfs 6. rgTheSchworz Townie killed night 1 7. Misder Townie lynched day 1 8. Pandain 9. Palmar Watcher killed night 2 10. Sandroba Goon lynched day 2 11. TheToast 12. Adam4167 13. A Killer Cuppa Tea 14. deconduo
Basically my suspicions go like this: Paper, Adam, bluelightz+ akct.
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Here's a paragraph on each player to give you an idea of where my reads are at. This'll probably be my last post before my flip.
Bluelightz I am almost certain that bluelightz is town. At the time of this post, the votes were 3 for me vs. 2 for bluelightz. Bluelightz had the easy option of just OMGUS voting me and pretty well sealing my fate, instead he chose to go against the grain, say I might actually be town and vote elsewhere. This is either some of the most well thought out (and risky!) mafia play I have ever seen, or he is town.
Snarfs Snarfs is actively trying to contribute in this game. He's asking questions where they should be asked, following his reads and doing everything I expect of a new-but-good town player.
Paperscraps Paperscraps looks alright to me. His recent switch to voting me feels like self-preservation, which is fine, I did the same earlier with bluelightz. I have the sneaking suspicion that he is the SK.
Pandain Pandain's disappearing act of the last two days is a bit concerning, but my previous read on him was all town. He defended me against Probulous, who thought I was asking a 'scummy scummy question', because he picked up that I was implying I might be a watcher/tracker. Sadly, I am not the tracker, I was feigning a blue role in the attempt to get shot, but it was entirely reasonable to think I was the tracker in that situation.
TheToast I too have taken a few hits from the Civs' 5 crack pipe, I know how easy it is to lose days on that shit. That said, I wish he had played a bigger part in this game. I get a townish feeling from reading his filter so I'm happy to say he's probably lurky-town.
deconduo Tiny filter, filled with one to two lines per post. I think his biggest post is when he reformatted rgTheSchworz post for him, so not even his own work. I really don't know what to make of him right now, but id probably hang him just to be on the safe side. Could go either way.
A Killer Cuppa Tea AKCT. Has a single pager filter on day 3. His voting reasons are beyond bizarre. On day 1 he votes Probulous due to some ridiculous reasons, then retracts it and blames it on alcohol, and instead votes for Misder with equally crap reasons, who flips town. On day 2, he votes for myself for not jumping on the lynch AKCT train to kill him, his reason being I "looked like I was trying to gain town credit". Finally on day 3, when most of the town is staring firmly at me, where he would well be justified in voting for me, he votes for bluelightz instead, implying that we are both scum, yet he wants to kill bluelightz first. This guys brain is broken. I have no clue what his alignment is but I really suggest hanging him or having a vig/SK deal with this, because he is skating by, throwing out shit votes, not contributing and not even trying.
Probulous When I see someone making terrible arguments like:
On March 07 2012 13:18 Probulous wrote: What is also interesting but somewhat prone to WIFOM is that he targeted Palmar who is now dead. Jackal targeted him and is also now dead.
This is the kind of crap I expect to see from the mafia in a newbie game, not here. I had to double-check the posters name. Bad logic is not a scum sign, but someone who is known for using good logic and then starts using terrible logic IS a scum sign. Probulous is supposedly an up-and-coming good player around TL Mafia, and when I see him trotting out stuff like this, my alarm bells go off. WIFOM'ing away at the fact that two people I've had interactions with are now dead? seriously? awful. I cant believe you are trying to pin Jackals death on me after a vig has already claimed it. Its laughable! In response to my case, he then starts to deflect back onto me, to call my (already minimal) credibility into question, here and here. That is a mafia tactic. Townies are concerned with clearing their guilt, mafia want to re-direct onto their attacker. Finally, this post here. I have already touched on this but I feel I need to go over it again. This post reeks of fear. If my cases are so 'flimsy' then there should be no need to lynch me before my 'flimsy' cases sway anyone, as they'll gain no traction.
Where do we go from here: I think the best course of action is to flip me. I know that might seem a bit strange for someone asking to die, but my reasoning is this: -With me around and my alignment in question, people are going to be wondering what I am, due to my ... interesting behaviour this game. I am a distraction to town that needs to be removed. -My reads will gain more weight after I'm dead. Once I flip, you can almost assuredly say that bluelightz is town. -Another reason to hang me is to prevent the mafia from hanging the SK, my death buys him one more night to kill one of these scummy assholes.
If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful then you could possibly imagine
##Vote Adam4167
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I have a small feeling that Probulous might be scum............
I agree Paperscraps could be SK as how tonights number of KP that got fired was 2, Either that we have a gloriously awesome medic that blocked the SK shot last night or hit a vet I'm not sure.
Right now, I will vote Paperscraps instead of just leaving my vote to be useless on me
##Vote: Paperscraps
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Since Paper isn't here to defend himself, allow me to play devil's advocate. Perhaps I can at least persuade you that today the right lynch is Adam and that we can look at Paper tomorrow. My thoughts will be in bold/underlined. Pandain, please don't take this as an attack against you, I am merely trying to prevent a mislynch of someone I believe is claiming the truth.
On March 09 2012 08:30 Pandain wrote:The thing is it doesn't matter whether he had pushed Jackal beforehand..... Jackal was an easy target. Never posted and hardly a contribution, and was a vet. And they would've known he was town. Of course mafia would point at him. Just because there's consistancy doesn't mean he's town..... you have to look at the whole portrait. Take for example, his reads. He was suspicious of decon, jackal, and toast. Toast I actually am learning towards town now given the huge contributions he's been doing lately, trying to figure stuff out. Decon I'm almost certain is town. And Jackal, as we all know now, is town. Bad reads could be either town or mafia. This is something I've learned quite quickly this game.What has he done regarding the only confirmed mafia(sandroba) Show nested quote +Sandroba will by far be the easy lynch tomorrow and maybe rightly so. Posts one line content and filler. I don't agree with Sandroba's read on TheToast as of now. TheToast is null to me at the moment. I feel as though Sandroba might be too easy of a lynch. If Sandroba is mafia, then why lurk and post crap and be sure to get lynched. Does Sandroba just not care about the game? Maybe just a bored vanilla townie? Before the night ends, he states hish reasons against voting sandroba because "he's too easy." To be fair, When Sandroba claims, this is what he describes. Show nested quote +Ok so Sandroba claims vet or saved by medic. Why would Sandroba have been targeted as all last night? I don't think a medic would have been on Sandroba either. Thus that leaves the vet claim. Honestly I think Sandroba is SK that is claiming a fake hit. However later he would backtrack, saying that we should not lynch him because he claimed............vet.(yeah, vet). Show nested quote +Deconduo, TheToast, and Jackal are all better lynches. I don't know if we should lynch Sandroba yet, due to the hit claim. Sandroba is on ice though and needs to start contributing as do a lot of other players. First off, this doesn't make sense. You state specifically that he says we shouldn't lynch sandroba because he claimed "vet", then give a quote where he doesn't even mention that?
Also, this could very easily be a vigilante trying to figure out where the other shot would come from. If he knows that he's holding a shot, then he's going to be the most interested an vested in who the other shooters are.
Plus, if we were just to look at the Sandroba case, why should we have more reason to believe yourself over Paperscraps? You both made some shady vote switches which are going to be working against you now. If anything, you were more defensive about the Sandroba lynch than Paper was.After Sandroba basically gave up, Paper finally votes against him. Show nested quote +On March 06 2012 05:02 Paperscraps wrote:On March 06 2012 01:06 sandroba wrote: I'm busy as fuck right now and I'm already working towards being replaced. I'm veteran. I got shot last night. That's all the info I have good luck. If you aren't even going to try, then you are going to get lynched. ##Unvote##Vote Sandroba
Side note: TheToast is scum. Then we have this suspicious post. Show nested quote +On March 06 2012 09:22 Paperscraps wrote: Hmmmm, my gut tells me that Sandroba is vet, but logic dictates that Sandroba is mafia/SK. This bandwagon on Sandroba went up pretty darn fast. But, alas Sandroba hasn't taken his vote off of AKCT and not putting up a fight at all.
This lynch on Sandroba doesn't feel right. I feel if I change my vote though, people will think that scummy.
Only one person died last night. Something doesn't fit here.
Going to change my vote anyways. Back to my "tunnel" on Deconduo, who has been coasting.
##Unvote
##Vote: Deconduo
Inb4 people say I am scum trying to make myself look townie "if" Sandroba flips vet. Read this post, over and over. There are many things that feel wrong in this post. From the "inb4 you guys call me scum" to the "going to change my vote anyways , this post just is oddly timed. First off, he clearly states the truth here. The bandwagon on Sandroba went up really fast and Sandroba did not put up a fight. Again, I'd like to reiterate that you also did some very scummy things around the time of the Sandroba flip.
Also, again, he could merely be confused because he knows he has a shot.
Finally, I think you're being quite hypocritical: After your gambit against Tea you claimed that there was absolutely no way that you could be mafia. This sounds very similar to Paper's "inb4 you guys call me scum". Also, you're switch on Sandroba also looked very scummy, but you weren't afraid to do it. Why should Paper be?Then he posts this, which is his longest post, and coincidentally because he was accused of being scum. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=315210&user=62048¤tpage=2Note in this post he says he asked rg who he was going to shoot because "he wanted to play along." No , that's a horrible excuse. I can't even explain why its so wrong, just read it and realize why that 1. Isn't how you would do it. 2. Hurts town if he does say who he's going to shoot 3. is a anti town question in general. Do you think it's possible that he asked rg who he was going to shoot because, knowing that he himself is a vigilante, he knows that rg is fake claiming and he wants to find out what he's up to? Also, this was your defense as to why it was okay for Adam to ask you if you were watcher/tracker:Show nested quote +If he was watcher/tracker, then he would be able to infer whether I was fake claiming. After all, there was a reason why I left it ambiguous whether I "was" tracker or watcher. If I claimed one, the real one could've counterclaimed and I would've looked super scummy. Maybe Paper is trying to infer whether rg was claiming so that he could counterclaim. I just see a lot of things that look similar between yourself and Paper, which is why I don't see why you would be making this case. Can you not see these similarities?
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On March 09 2012 09:27 Bluelightz wrote: I have a small feeling that Probulous might be scum............
I agree Paperscraps could be SK as how tonights number of KP that got fired was 2, Either that we have a gloriously awesome medic that blocked the SK shot last night or hit a vet I'm not sure.
Right now, I will vote Paperscraps instead of just leaving my vote to be useless on me
##Vote: Paperscraps Bluelightz, I encourage you to read my response before you disappear.
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On March 09 2012 08:30 Pandain wrote: The thing is it doesn't matter whether he had pushed Jackal beforehand.....Jackal was an easy target. Never posted and hardly a contribution, and was a vet. And they would've known he was town. Of course mafia would point at him. Just because there's consistancy doesn't mean he's town..... you have to look at the whole portrait. You are right that consistency doesn't mean he is town but it is also reasonable that town would be consistent. It doesn't point one way or the other. Him FOSing Jackal early and continuing could be both town(tunelling) or mafia(setting a later play). It just means his reason for shooting Jackal is consistent.
Take for example, his reads. He was suspicious of decon, jackal, and toast. Toast I actually am learning towards town now given the huge contributions he's been doing lately, trying to figure stuff out. Decon I'm almost certain is town. And Jackal, as we all know now, is town. Well Decon certainly wasn't completely townie Day 1 with his wrong read on me and Misder. Toast looked town to me but even you thought he was scum. Jackal was a big fat null to most people and given sandroba flipped scum when lurking there was no reason to think Jackal had to be town.
What has he done regarding the only confirmed mafia(sandroba) + Show Spoiler +Sandroba will by far be the easy lynch tomorrow and maybe rightly so. Posts one line content and filler. I don't agree with Sandroba's read on TheToast as of now. TheToast is null to me at the moment. I feel as though Sandroba might be too easy of a lynch. If Sandroba is mafia, then why lurk and post crap and be sure to get lynched. Does Sandroba just not care about the game? Maybe just a bored vanilla townie? Before the night ends, he states hish reasons against voting sandroba because "he's too easy." To be fair, When Sandroba claims, this is what he describes. Ok so Sandroba claims vet or saved by medic. Why would Sandroba have been targeted as all last night? I don't think a medic would have been on Sandroba either. Thus that leaves the vet claim. Honestly I think Sandroba is SK that is claiming a fake hit. However later he would backtrack, saying that we should not lynch him because he claimed............vet.(yeah, vet). Deconduo, TheToast, and Jackal are all better lynches. I don't know if we should lynch Sandroba yet, due to the hit claim. Sandroba is on ice though and needs to start contributing as do a lot of other players. After Sandroba basically gave up, Paper finally votes against him. On March 06 2012 05:02 Paperscraps wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2012 01:06 sandroba wrote: I'm busy as fuck right now and I'm already working towards being replaced. I'm veteran. I got shot last night. That's all the info I have good luck. If you aren't even going to try, then you are going to get lynched. ##Unvote##Vote Sandroba
Side note: TheToast is scum. Then we have this suspicious post. On March 06 2012 09:22 Paperscraps wrote: Hmmmm, my gut tells me that Sandroba is vet, but logic dictates that Sandroba is mafia/SK. This bandwagon on Sandroba went up pretty darn fast. But, alas Sandroba hasn't taken his vote off of AKCT and not putting up a fight at all.
This lynch on Sandroba doesn't feel right. I feel if I change my vote though, people will think that scummy.
Only one person died last night. Something doesn't fit here.
Going to change my vote anyways. Back to my "tunnel" on Deconduo, who has been coasting.
##Unvote
##Vote: Deconduo
Inb4 people say I am scum trying to make myself look townie "if" Sandroba flips vet. Read this post, over and over. There are many things that feel wrong in this post. From the "inb4 you guys call me scum" to the "going to change my vote anyways , this post just is oddly timed.
This is more damning, especially that last post. I pointed out previosuly how his statement "Only one person died last night. Something doesn't fit here" only makes sense if you know there is a SK or you are scum.
Then he posts this, which is his longest post, and coincidentally because he was accused of being scum. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=315210&user=62048¤tpage=2Note in this post he says he asked rg who he was going to shoot because "he wanted to play along." No , that's a horrible excuse. I can't even explain why its so wrong, just read it and realize why that 1. Isn't how you would do it. 2. Hurts town if he does say who he's going to shoot 3. is a anti town question in general. I agree that this a terrible question. It makes sense for mafia to want to know who RG was going to target if they believed his claim. Given mafia shot him that night (the only other claimed shot came from mafia), this looks particularly damning.
Probulus, I feel that this is definitely a move to gain town cred. Whether he's mafia or SK I don't know yet, but I know that if I was mafia, I would pull off something like this. Think about it. You get to kill a townie and still "be town." What's there not good? Since we don't have a detective, its impossible to differentiate a mafia vig and a town vig. The only benefit it had, was, in fact, being able to say "oh im vig." But why claim at all? In that matter especially. If you are concerned about being tracked it makes sense from a SK, Vig or mafia point of view to claim before the deadline. I guess waiting for the day post makes sense if you thought Jackal was the tracker and he flipped townie. Then you have to claim in case the real tracker followed you. Again this makes sense for a mafia/vig or SK. Honestly the claim doesn't add anything to the case against him.
I just don't feel like he would've shot jackal if he was town. Look at his posts. Before he was suspicious of Decondou. AFter he's suspicious of decondou. If he was more sure of Jackal then decondou(to the point where he would shoot him), he would've actually led a real charge on him. Based on what? That he wasn't contributing? The case would be inherently weak and easily shot down by mafia.
He changes his stories regarding why he shot him, going from "yeah I wasn't certain of decon, jackal seemed scummy" to Show nested quote +I shot Jackal over Decon, because I had doubts about Decon being scum and didn't have doubts about Jackal I don't see the inconsistency there. In both cases he wasn't sure on Decon and so went for Jackal. I agree that Jackal became more scummy between those posts but the intent in the same.
In General: 1. Fosed the same people (decondou, toast, jackal.) who i believe are town. You believe they are town now, not when he originally FOSd them. This is a weak point. 2. Resisted the Sandroba lynch, voted him only when he gave up, and even back tracked after.I think this is your strongest point actually. 3. Questionable shooting and dubious reasoning. Doesn't tell us anything about his alignment Responses in Bold
I feel that definitely #2 is the weakest. But its evidence that he could, indeed, be mafia. The point I'm trying to make, is basically that mafia WOULD possibly do this because they had just lost sandroba, and given the lack of any vets besides me and decon, they're probably also doing dumb/risky stuff now too. Shooting Jackal as we all see clearly was a good move, as most of you believe him >.> I personally believe that he is the SK. I feel like this would be the right way for an SK to try and gain town cred; presenting himself as a vig. This is WIFOM.
Also remember that Sandroba, mafia, got hit. As I highly doubt he would just randomly claim, this provides evidence for the fact that he must've gotten hit by either an SK or vig. Given the fact that no vig has claimed shooting him, there must be an sk.
I agree that it is likely there is a SK. Sandroba's claim is very weird otherwise. My point is that you are assuming that there is a SK and so Paperscraps' claim is fake. Yes there are other reasons for him being suspicious but his claim is not one of them. We don't know that there is a SK so lynching someone based on assuming there is one is terribad. Even if there is a SK that doen't mean that Paperscraps could not have Vigged Jackal. It really has no bearing on his alignment. Ultimately his fate will be sealed by our understanding of his voting around sandroba. If you strip the case back it consists of his flip-flopping on sandroba and his bad question to RG. I am not willing to lynch him based on that.
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It would not surprise me at this point if there is no SK but rather there is a mafia team of Sandroba, Adam, Pandain and Bluelightz.
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United States5684 Posts
Current Vote Count:
Adam4167 -5 Deconduo Paperscraps Snarfs Probulous Adam4167
Paperscraps -2
Deconduo Pandain Bluelightz
Bluelightz -1 A Killer Cuppa Tea
Bluelightz
Adam4167
Snarfs
A Killer Cuppa Tea -0
Bluelightz
Probulous -0
Adam4167
If there is a mistake, please let me know. Day ends in roughly 2 hours. Please remember to vote before then, if you have not done so.
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On March 09 2012 10:00 Snarfs wrote: It would not surprise me at this point if there is no SK but rather there is a mafia team of Sandroba, Adam, Pandain and Bluelightz. Actually, that wasn't very well thought out. I rescind this comment for the time being.
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On March 09 2012 09:18 Adam4167 wrote: This'll probably be my last post before my flip. Really? What is with the passive aggressive martyr stuff? If you're town make yourself useful. Wailing about how the fates have conspired against you does you no justice.
Probulous When I see someone making terrible arguments like: Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 13:18 Probulous wrote: What is also interesting but somewhat prone to WIFOM is that he targeted Palmar who is now dead. Jackal targeted him and is also now dead.
This is the kind of crap I expect to see from the mafia in a newbie game, not here. I had to double-check the posters name. Bad logic is not a scum sign, but someone who is known for using good logic and then starts using terrible logic IS a scum sign. Probulous is supposedly an up-and-coming good player around TL Mafia, and when I see him trotting out stuff like this, my alarm bells go off. WIFOM'ing away at the fact that two people I've had interactions with are now dead? seriously? awful. I cant believe you are trying to pin Jackals death on me after a vig has already claimed it. Its laughable! I agree that is not my best action this game. I like how you ignore everything else I have said about you and focus on the one piece of WIFOM that I used. I even noted that it was WIFOM (linky). I don't get this, I use one small piece of weak logic and suddenly I am scum? Yes I try to avoid this but the rest of my case against you is really strong. Much better than yours which boils down to, "I expect better". Sorry mate I am trying but I can't be perfect.
In response to my case, he then starts to deflect back onto me, to call my (already minimal) credibility into question, here and here. That is a mafia tactic. Townies are concerned with clearing their guilt, mafia want to re-direct onto their attacker. This is bullshit and you know it. Here is the sequence of events No my friend you were responding to me, not the other way round. So there is no way I could be deflecting to you, I targeted you first. Even if you ignore this, I attacked you Day 2 for your scummy question to Pandain. My suspicions of you have been clear the whole time. Yours amounted toProbulous, why are you sheeping Palmar? His case on sandroba is weak. "You couldn't spot a townie??? oh, you're scum!".
(linky) and On March 05 2012 08:30 Adam4167 wrote:This is just spam, Probulous. I was not surprised at all that he flipped townie, nor was I surprised that he was lying all game. You didn't even believe all of his claims, you said as much here: Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 20:42 Probulous wrote: RG stop playing the idiot. No-one believes the 1001 things you have claimed. Going to bed now. Thoughts in the morning. Your post doesn't even make sense, you start by stating that he claimed Vanilla Townie or possibly Veteran, then somehow finish that he's possibly a Vig or Veteran. What was the point of even posting that wall of text? It contributes nothing. ... The answer to that question provides nothing to town. It provides information to me. I ask because I wanted to know what Pandain was claiming to get a better grasp on if he was fake-claiming. "As I previously stated it was obvious that RG claims were bogus from a simple read of his filter", No, you didn't. You finished with the conclusion that he was a Veteran or a Vig. It is not a scummy question. Why aren't you calling me scum? You're implying it, but you aren't saying it. This is in response to me calling you out on your scummy question. You never built a case on me until I called you out so don't tell me I am distratcing town. You are the one who did that.
Finally, this post here. I have already touched on this but I feel I need to go over it again. This post reeks of fear. If my cases are so 'flimsy' then there should be no need to lynch me before my 'flimsy' cases sway anyone, as they'll gain no traction. It is not fear, it is prudence. I respect you as a player and find your scum play hard to read.
Where do we go from here: I think the best course of action is to flip me. I know that might seem a bit strange for someone asking to die, but my reasoning is this: -With me around and my alignment in question, people are going to be wondering what I am, due to my ... interesting behaviour this game. I am a distraction to town that needs to be removed. -My reads will gain more weight after I'm dead. Once I flip, you can almost assuredly say that bluelightz is town. -Another reason to hang me is to prevent the mafia from hanging the SK, my death buys him one more night to kill one of these scummy assholes
Martyring and using WIFOM which you say labels me as scum. Just because you die and might flip town does not make your reads any better. You are using the same logic that you are condemning me with. Finally I never called you an asshole so please don't do it to me. There is no need to get personal in here.
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Can we get a vote count in chronological order at the flip again? Thanks!
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United States5684 Posts
On March 09 2012 10:21 Probulous wrote: Can we get a vote count in chronological order at the flip again? Thanks! If wiggles does this with the write up then you will have it. otherwise use the all feature of viewing the thread
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On March 09 2012 10:54 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 10:21 Probulous wrote: Can we get a vote count in chronological order at the flip again? Thanks! If wiggles does this with the write up then you will have it. otherwise use the all feature of viewing the thread
Hahahaha!!!
Cracking the whip Mr Mattchew. Fair enough, I will get off my lazy ass and do it myself. Is there anyone still here? We have an hour to go and people have vanished.
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Mafia would never just randomly fake claim getting hit. If the game had gone on longer, then Sandroba would've been found out if he had faked it(as we would find out more info as the game goes on longer.) The fact that he claimed getting hit and yet didn't try to defend himself suggests to me that he didn't try to use it as a "town cred" thing, like he would've if he had been faking it.
If mafia fake it, their goal is to use it to gain town cred. Sandroba didn't do it.
The point I'm trying to make about him FOS (i believe) town people, is the fact that hes STILL going against them. This very day he's gone against toast, decondou,and he shot jackal the night before! He defended sandroba, and you say that his reaosning for shooting jackal doesn't tell us anything about his alignment, but it does.
If his case was that "Inherently weak" he wouldn't have fricking SHOT him. Previous posts all suggested him feeling confident about toast being scum, why not shoot him? The point of the matter is that he's had dubious reasoning, and changed how he's said he's doing stuff.
And I didn't notice the "Only 1 guy died", but that is damning also.
The case is better , far better , then Adam, that's why I'm voting him.
We can lynch Adam tommorow.
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On March 09 2012 10:21 Probulous wrote: Can we get a vote count in chronological order at the flip again? Thanks! My vote-count is in chronological order, just read from the bottom to the top
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decondouuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu you know he's sk
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##Vote: Adam4167
Probulous and Snarfs have both made decent cases against Adam. I still have a big FOS on Pandain and Paper, but it looks like for the moment those those two guys aren't going anywhere. (Day 4 we need to take a really really close look at both of them, at least one is scum and I think there is a good chance the other is the SK...)
As for Adam, while Probulous and Snarfs have brought up a lot of good points, for me the most interesting thing was your Day one attacks on Palmar. You voted Palmar, along with Paper, for lynching Day 1. Then Jackal breaks with everyone else and votes you for lynching day 2. Then Paper kills Jackal Night 2. Convenient, no? Something is off here.
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Votes assuming votes before the day post don't count
+ Show Spoiler [Vote Count] +Bluelightz = 1 1) Probulous 9) Snarfs 10) Adam4167 11) A Killer Cuppa Tea 14) Bluelightz
Paperscraps = 2 2) Pandain 7) Deconduo 16) Bluelightz
Probulous = 0 3) Adam4167
Adam4167 = 5 4) Probulous 5) Snarfs 6) Paperscraps 8) Deconduo 12) Snarfs 15) Adam4167
A Killer Cuppa Tea = 0 13) Bluelightz
+ Show Spoiler [Order of Vote Actions] + 1) Probulous votes for Bluelightz 2) Pandain votes for Paperscraps 3) Adam4167 votes for Probulous 4) Probulous votes for Adam4167 5) Snarfs votes for Adam4167 6) Paperscraps votes for Adam4167 7) Deconduo votes for Paperscraps 8) Deconduo votes for Adam4167 9) Snarfs votes for Bluelightz 10) Adam4167 votes for Bluelightz 11) A Killer Cuppa Tea votes for Bluelightz 12) Snarfs votes for Adam4167 13) Bluelightz votes for A Killer Cuppa Tea 14) Bluelightz votes for Bluelightz 15) Adam4167 votes for Adam4167 16) Bluelightz votes for Paperscraps
These have been spoilered so as to avoid the "He is posting useless lists and spamming the thread" accusations
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You missed one Probulous XD
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On March 09 2012 11:04 Pandain wrote: The point I'm trying to make about him FOS (i believe) town people, is the fact that hes STILL going against them. This very day he's gone against toast, decondou,and he shot jackal the night before! He defended sandroba, and you say that his reaosning for shooting jackal doesn't tell us anything about his alignment, but it does. If his case was that "Inherently weak" he wouldn't have fricking SHOT him. Previous posts all suggested him feeling confident about toast being scum, why not shoot him? The point of the matter is that he's had dubious reasoning, and changed how he's said he's doing stuff.
And I didn't notice the "Only 1 guy died", but that is damning also. The case is better , far better , then Adam, that's why I'm voting him. We can lynch Adam tommorow.
See this where we disagree. If Paper thought Jackal was scum, he had a reason to shoot him. Yes he originally thought decon was scum but he changed his mind on that and stated so in thread. I have no reason to believe this was an intentional plant. He could do it as scum or town but it is simpler if he is town. It's a long shot for scum because he could have shot decon anyway so why publicly change? As for Toast, it should be clear to most people that Toast's play has become more and more townie as the game has gone on. Even you recognise this, Jackal's did not. So as a town Vig you have to make a choice, the guy who is trying or the one who continues to lurk. I would have chosen not to shoot but he made a judgement call. In any case this rests on us determining why he made that choice. It is too much WIFOM for me to lynch him today.
The strongest part of the case against him is his Day 2 sandroba actions. When I compare his actions then with Adam's well Adam looks worse. He refuses to contribute then throws a weak vote on sandroba once it is clear he is getting lynched and then refuses to post during the night. Paper wants to clear his name, Adam does not. One is being more towny, so I am voting for the other. I was right about Toast trying to improve, I believe the same about Paper.
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On March 09 2012 11:20 TheToast wrote: You missed one Probulous XD
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On March 09 2012 11:30 Probulous wrote:
My vote, you didn't count it lol.
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A Killer Cuppa Tea Where you at brother? You voted for Bluelightz when he had a few votes on him and have since disappeared. He isn't getting lynched today (unlikely) and you don't seem to be pushing for him to be lynched or defending Adam. Care to explain?
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Just got back from school, been there all day. I will post my thoughts in a bit.
Adam with the self-vote. Why do people do this?
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On March 09 2012 11:43 Paperscraps wrote: Just got back from school, been there all day. I will post my thoughts in a bit.
Adam with the self-vote. Why do people do this?
I don't know but it is really annoying. It's so passive aggressive and just creates headaches for town. If he is town he is acting out his frustration, if he is mafia he is trying to get us to see that he is being wrongfully accused. It justs creates confusion and is almost playing against your win condition (I know you can vote for yourself in this game so don't get all uppity at me). I expect better from him.
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Posting from phone
I explained why in the post where I voted myself. Right now the only other two on the chopping block are you and bluelights, neither of which I want to see dead. Going through another day with people focused on me is counter productive to this town winning. I am not being a martyr, I am doing what I see as the best move for towns success.
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If you think I am scum, vote for me.
This is just weak.
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@Adam: If you think I am SK, why wouldn't you want to lynch me again? It would remove anti-town KP. That would put town in a good spot. SK is a wild card that can't be controlled. Thus, your logic for not voting me if you think I am SK is bad. Don't get me wrong I am glad you aren't voting me, because you are wrong. But your logic is lacking. Town should never vote for themselves.
Your complete 180 on Bluelightz is concerning.
Your reads on Deconduo, AKCT, TheToast, and Snarfs are good.
Your read on Pandain is lacking.
Your read on Probulous is over thought imo.
I do agree that whatever you flip, will help us find remaining scum.
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wow adam died faster then seal to MKP
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Night 3: Torn Apart First Mate Mattchew pulled the chains tight around Adam4167's ankles, before snapping shut the lock that held them there, the twin of the one that held his wrists together.
"Any last words, matey?", he said, grinning, as he stepped back towards the Captain and the rest of the crew.
Adam4167 pleaded, his voice becoming more desperate with every word, "Please, I ain't done nothing, I swear! You can't do this to me, I've been loyal to the Captain, you gotta believe me! Please don't throw me over!"
But, the crew had already made their decision, and looking at the Captain who nodded to signal his approval, they moved forward towards Adam4167, and though he was still struggling, picked him up and dropped him over the side of the ship. They watched gleefully, as the chain pulled out from where it was piled on the deck, and dragged along the edge of the SS Qatol, tracing Adam4167's path through the water and beneath the hull of the boat.
After the chain was fully let out, the Captain ordered it pulled back in, and the men who had thrown him over now happily dragged it back, reclaiming it from the sea. At last, the end rose from the water, the remains of Adam4167 still clutching to the chains. However, the smiles of the men quickly turned to frowns, as they saw the hunks of flesh and the bloody stumps of Adam4167's legs saturated in green blood.
Adam4167 the Townie has been keelhauled!
+ Show Spoiler [Final Vote Count] +Final Vote Count:
Adam4167 -6 TheToast Adam4167 Deconduo Paperscraps Snarfs Probulous
Paperscraps -2 Bluelightz
Deconduo Pandain
Bluelightz -1
Bluelightzp A Killer Cuppa Tea
Adam4167
Snarfs
A Killer Cuppa Tea -0
Bluelightz
Probulous -0
Adam4167
Night 3 has begun! Please remember to send in all actions to both myself and Mattchew before Day 4 begins 24 hours from now at 12 KST!
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For those interested here is the final vote count. + Show Spoiler [Vote Count] +Bluelightz = 1 1) Probulous 9) Snarfs 10) Adam4167 11) A Killer Cuppa Tea 14) Bluelightz
Paperscraps = 2 2) Pandain 7) Deconduo 16) Bluelightz
Probulous = 0 3) Adam4167
Adam4167 = 6 4) Probulous 5) Snarfs 6) Paperscraps 8) Deconduo 12) Snarfs 15) Adam4167 17) TheToast
A Killer Cuppa Tea = 0 13) Bluelightz + Show Spoiler [Order of Vote Actions] + 1) Probulous votes for Bluelightz 2) Pandain votes for Paperscraps 3) Adam4167 votes for Probulous 4) Probulous votes for Adam4167 5) Snarfs votes for Adam4167 6) Paperscraps votes for Adam4167 7) Deconduo votes for Paperscraps 8) Deconduo votes for Adam4167 9) Snarfs votes for Bluelightz 10) Adam4167 votes for Bluelightz 11) A Killer Cuppa Tea votes for Bluelightz 12) Snarfs votes for Adam4167 13) Bluelightz votes for A Killer Cuppa Tea 14) Bluelightz votes for Bluelightz 15) Adam4167 votes for Adam4167 16) Bluelightz votes for Paperscraps 17) TheToast votes for Adam4167
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If we have a tracker, track Paper.
If we have a medic, protect decondou or me.
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Adam, we can chat after the game but I am really disappointed in how you ended that. As town you fight, fight to the last breath because you know we are making a mistake. Oh and don't call me an asshole.
Going to take a look at those vote actions again. ACKT where the hell are you hiding?
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So, this is interesting. I will post later who I think are the remaining scum.
AKCT needs to explain his vote.
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On March 09 2012 12:05 Pandain wrote: If we have a tracker, track Paper.
If we have a medic, protect decondou or me.
Do not track me this is a waste. Medic should be on Snarfs or Probulous.
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For the love of god don't track Paper. He must kill for Jesus!
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Pandain you are getting lynched tomorrow, FYI.
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Well either you or Deconduo.
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If me and decondou were scum we would've won by now.
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I would love to hear who are the remaining scum then, besides me of course?
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I beileve you are SK. ACKT is scum, bluelightz might be.
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On March 09 2012 12:21 Pandain wrote: I beileve you are SK. ACKT is scum, bluelightz might be.
So, there is no possibility for me to vig? Just curious to why you are so sure?
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There's an SK and its you or ACKT.
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Pandain, why are you so sure deconduo is town?
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And I'm asking your honest opinion here, not some sort of I'm going to try to trick you into saying something stupid.
Why is decon town in your eyes? I don't see what makes him so town that you would suggest saving him tonight.
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On March 05 2012 00:57 deconduo wrote: What is the mafia KP formula? Did anyone take a hit last night? If not, its not unreasonable to think that rg was hit twice. I highly doubt that the anti-town KP is only 1. While mafia doublestacking RG is unlikely, its possible both SK and mafia went after him independently. However until I hear ACKT come up with an explanation, ##Vote A Killer Cup of Tea
Snarfs
This looks like a townie post given sandroba flipped scum and claimed a hit. It would be weird for mafia to publicly ask about how their kill points are calculated. Plus he is making it clear that RG could have been stacked which if he new sandroba had gotten shot (assuming he did) would make no sense. It's WIFOM but it reads as town to me. Do you think he is scum?
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I agree that his choice of decon as a target to be saved is odd to say the least. I agree with Paper that you should be at the top of that list or at least above decon. Whilst decon hasn't done anything scummy in my eyes, he hasn't done anything really townie either. Of course saving me is the best thing that a medic can do but everyone says that
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Ahh that makes a lot of sense. Thanks man.
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Bare in mind it doesn't confirm him but it certainly looks town. Go to go, work is ending soon. I might pop in later otherwise it will be tomorrow for me.
Cheers!
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Posting from my phone
I am currently in hospital with a mild concussion. Docs say they have to keep me here for a while. Again no access to a comp. I haven't reread anything since my last post, but I swear the world is out to prevent me from doing anything productive in this game >_<. They should hopefully release me later tonight - they said 12-24 hours unless complications - and HOPEFULLY I'll finally be able to actually do something.
It's just sods law isn't it >_>
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Well that is certainly new He he that might explain your vote! Get better matey and we can chat tomorrow.
Post from phone
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Any medic that isn't on probulous is an idiot.
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I don't even know what to post right now but im gonna post also @AKCT
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On March 09 2012 13:20 Snarfs wrote: Pandain, why are you so sure deconduo is town?
I'm wondering about Pandain's comments myself.. Decondou's posting all game has been reletively solid and townish, so why has Pandain suddenly focused on him now? Look at these quotes from Pandain:
Decondou I think your town and value your opinion, what do you make of paperscraps claim?
If we have a medic, protect decondou or me.
If me and decondou were scum we would've won by now.
This last one is the most bizzaire. I would point out that with 2kp potential per day/night (lynch and kill) and assuming between 10-12 non mafia, it's not even theoretically possible for scum to have won by now. Either way, all these quotes are really over the top. It almost seems like Pandain is trying really hard to set him self up for something, whether that's a blue claim (a fake blue claim) or maybe a vig hit? He was really adament in arguing that Paper was the mafia vig and not town. What if Pandain is really the mafia vig and is trying to set himself up for a blue claim? (again)
Idk, I can't really make sense of all this. But either way Pandain's posting is shady as hell.
On March 09 2012 20:54 Bluelightz wrote:I don't even know what to post right now but im gonna post also @AKCT
wut.
So you are just admitting now that you plan to spam the thread with pointless posts.
.... excuse me for a moment...
*Slams head on desk* *Slams head on desk* *Slams head on desk*
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I have a problem with Pandain's play. He is sure there is a an SK. It is either AKCT or I. There are a few ways to be sure on this:
1. Pandain is a vet and didn't claim hit. 2. Pandain is a medic either blue or red. 3. Pandain was hit and saved by a medic. ( Not sure if you are notified if you are hit) 4. Pandain is a vig. This one is tricky, if he is a blue vig, then he might assume there wouldn't be another in the setup. I would agree with that. If he is a red vig, then he is trying to set something up as TheToast pointed out.
I have been pretty transparent the latter half of this game. So I am not sure how anyone thinks I am scum. Yes I claimed horribly and will not do that again, but I have posted my views and admitted to my mistakes. Pandain and Deconduo to a lesser extent thinking I am the scummiest person in the whole game, doesn't that strike anyone as odd?
AKCT being SK or scum makes sense, but he is in the hospital. I don't know what the protocol is for pressuring him or what not since he cannot defend himself.
Deconduo has come to the conclusion that I have to be SK. Why do people think this guy is town again? His play is VERY reactionary. He hasn't scum hunted. Pandain who is supposedly a good player thinks he is town, which really bugs me. Deconduo has hardly interacted with anybody else in the thread.
If you guys need me to make a huge analytic post on why Deconduo is scum, then I will. Just read his filter it is pretty apparent. I suggest reading Adam's thoughts on everyone as well, since he flipped town.
I wonder what people are going to say if there is only 1 kill tonight? (inb4 SK no killed, herd derp herp)
I want to think Pandain is town right now, but his cockiness and read on me are throwing me off. Not sure what to think.
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On March 09 2012 20:18 deconduo wrote: Any medic that isn't on probulous is an idiot.
If we do have a medic, he should WIFOM between Probu and Snarfs.
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I'm the only guy who pushes against lynching adam, and you guys suspect me more.
Oh my god........
I don't even know how paper scraps thinks that I have to be blue.
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On March 10 2012 08:15 Pandain wrote: I'm the only guy who pushes against lynching adam, and you guys suspect me more.
Oh my god........
I don't even know how paper scraps thinks that I have to be blue.
Because you won't even consider the fact I could be vig, so obviously you know something everyone else doesnt or you are scum.
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On March 10 2012 08:15 Pandain wrote: I'm the only guy who pushes against lynching adam, and you guys suspect me more. Oh my god........ I don't even know how paper scraps thinks that I have to be blue. That's patently untrue. Yes you pushed for a Paperscraps lynch but you never defended Adam. When I asked you outright whether you were still suspicious of Adam, you wrote (linky)
On March 09 2012 08:42 Pandain wrote: Theres no one else besides Adam really. ... Basically my suspicions go like this: Paper, Adam, bluelightz+ akct. This post (linky) where you make your case against Paper has only this to say about Adam.
On March 09 2012 11:04 Pandain wrote: The case is better , far better , then Adam, that's why I'm voting him. We can lynch Adam tommorow. So no, you were not pushing against an Adam lynch. You don't get credit for trying to save him because you obviously thought he was scum. As far as I can see the only one who does get some credit is bluelightz.
Decon what are your thoughts on Pandain?
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On March 10 2012 08:46 Paperscraps wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 08:15 Pandain wrote: I'm the only guy who pushes against lynching adam, and you guys suspect me more. Oh my god........ I don't even know how paper scraps thinks that I have to be blue. Because you won't even consider the fact I could be vig, so obviously you know something everyone else doesnt or you are scum.
That only makes sense if you are not a Vig I agree that it makes sense for scum to think you are not a Vig but what could he possibly know that makes you not a Vig? Either you are a Vig in which he "knows" nothing or you are lying.
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On March 10 2012 08:46 Paperscraps wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 08:15 Pandain wrote: I'm the only guy who pushes against lynching adam, and you guys suspect me more.
Oh my god........
I don't even know how paper scraps thinks that I have to be blue. Because you won't even consider the fact I could be vig, so obviously you know something everyone else doesnt or you are scum.
See this is why I don't trust you.
Instead of saying "so you must be wrong," you say "you know something town doesn't!"
....................................
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And notice how I didn't say defending Adam, I said I was pushing against a lynch. If mafia have a medic, then we(assuming 2 left), would have preffered to lynch a town and just take the 1% chance SK shoots us and he hadn't been protected.
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On March 10 2012 08:55 Pandain wrote: And notice how I didn't say defending Adam, I said I was pushing against a lynch. If mafia have a medic, then we(assuming 2 left), would have preffered to lynch a town and just take the 1% chance SK shoots us and he hadn't been protected.
You're going to have to explain that some more. It doesn't make sense to me.
Back to your original post, if you were not defending Adam why should you be less suspicious for pushing a Paperscraps lynch? It's a well known tactic of scum to push and alternate lynch when the main one is town. See that post looks like someone trying to point out how they were right and we should listen to you know. Can you explain your indignation? I think it is right that everyone gets a look over.
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I'm pointing out the fact that even though I was suspicios of Adam's, there were more important people to lynch. If mafia I would have been just content to let adam die, but notice how instead I tried to kill the SK(which is good for town and bad for mafia.)
Also it pointed to the fact that you guys should just listen to what I say.
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On March 10 2012 08:50 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 08:15 Pandain wrote: I'm the only guy who pushes against lynching adam, and you guys suspect me more. Oh my god........ I don't even know how paper scraps thinks that I have to be blue. That's patently untrue. Yes you pushed for a Paperscraps lynch but you never defended Adam. When I asked you outright whether you were still suspicious of Adam, you wrote ( linky) Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 08:42 Pandain wrote: Theres no one else besides Adam really. ... Basically my suspicions go like this: Paper, Adam, bluelightz+ akct. This post ( linky) where you make your case against Paper has only this to say about Adam. Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 11:04 Pandain wrote: The case is better , far better , then Adam, that's why I'm voting him. We can lynch Adam tommorow. So no, you were not pushing against an Adam lynch. You don't get credit for trying to save him because you obviously thought he was scum. As far as I can see the only one who does get some credit is bluelightz. Decon what are your thoughts on Pandain?
If it was a normal player, he would be 2nd on my scumlist after paper. However its Pandain who rolls a dice to decide what to do each day: 1. Claim mafia 2. Claim tracker 3. Lurk 4. Spam 5. Lose the game 6. Win the game
I've never been able to read him properly, its what makes him a meh town player but a deceptively dangerous mafia player. If I was to go with my gut I'd say town. However the only way to know for sure is when he flips.
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That is illogical. Your read on Adam was wrong, how can we be sure your read on Paperscraps is right? You're basically saying we should listen to you because Paperscraps is clearly the SK. I am not going to"just listen to what you say" because it is clear that your reads can be wrong.
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My read on Adam was uncertain. I was uncertain about everyone until i looked at it for like 36 hours, which you guys are like omg lurking. Then im like omg paper is wtf
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On March 10 2012 09:18 deconduo wrote: If it was a normal player, he would be 2nd on my scumlist after paper1. However its Pandain who rolls a dice to decide what to do each day: 1. Claim mafia 2. Claim tracker 3. Lurk 4. Spam 5. Lose the game 6. Win the game
I've never been able to read him properly, its what makes him a meh town player but a deceptively dangerous mafia player. If I was to go with my gut I'd say town2. However the only way to know for sure is when he flips.
What happened between 1 and 2? You do realise you read is useless right? You're basically saying he is a "meh" town player but if he is mafia we should watch out. Your gut says town but your head says scum. You couldn't be more diplomatic if you tried.
I find it really odd that he has made a concerted effort to buddy with you. You have no opinion on this? You're a fat null for me right now and that is not good enough on Day 3. I had you pegged as town but you are not helping us, so please try and provide something useful.
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On March 10 2012 10:02 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 09:18 deconduo wrote: If it was a normal player, he would be 2nd on my scumlist after paper1. However its Pandain who rolls a dice to decide what to do each day: 1. Claim mafia 2. Claim tracker 3. Lurk 4. Spam 5. Lose the game 6. Win the game
I've never been able to read him properly, its what makes him a meh town player but a deceptively dangerous mafia player. If I was to go with my gut I'd say town2. However the only way to know for sure is when he flips. What happened between 1 and 2? You do realise you read is useless right? You're basically saying he is a "meh" town player but if he is mafia we should watch out. Your gut says town but your head says scum. You couldn't be more diplomatic if you tried. I find it really odd that he has made a concerted effort to buddy with you. You have no opinion on this? You're a fat null for me right now and that is not good enough on Day 3. I had you pegged as town but you are not helping us, so please try and provide something useful.
Its not a read, I'm telling you Pandain is unreadable. He does crazy shit all the time, it has no bearing on his alignment. His fake Tracker claim, him disappearing for a day, him buddying me. That's all typical Pandain play, whether town or mafia.
If you want useful reads: -Paper is SK. -Probulous, Toast are town -Snarfs, Blue, AKCT are scum.
If only one person dies tonight then that will change as it would probably mean no SK and Paper is telling the truth about being vig.
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Also I really hate talking during the night, it only helps mafia.
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On March 10 2012 10:16 deconduo wrote: If you want useful reads: -Paper is SK. -Probulous, Toast are town -Snarfs, Blue, AKCT are scum. Yikes! Does this mean I'm dying tonight and you want to look like you had no clue when I flip, or do you have something to back that up?
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P.S. I'm leaving work now, so if you did have something for me to reply to, I didn't disappear. I'll be home in about an hour.
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On March 10 2012 10:16 deconduo wrote: If you want useful reads: -Paper is SK. -Probulous, Toast are town -Snarfs, Blue, AKCT are scum.
If only one person dies tonight then that will change as it would probably mean no SK and Paper is telling the truth about being vig.
Those are very strange reads. If I had pick one townie out of everyone here it would be Snarfs. Bluelightz always looks scummy but at least he chose to defy the crowd and not vote for Adam. It's WIFOM but honestly that is the best we can hope for with him. AKCT is likely to be scum based on numbers but the most scummy thing he has done has been lurking which is explained by his head being in need of repair.
Anyway since you don't like talking at night, we can discuss this after the flip. Of course if I am no longer here after the flip (or you for that matter) others can continue this conversation.
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On March 10 2012 10:42 Probulous wrote: Those are very strange reads. If I had pick one townie out of everyone here it would be Snarfs.
Why? He has flip flopped the whole game. Look at this post:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=315210¤tpage=25#495
Then this quote:
On March 09 2012 07:19 Snarfs wrote: While I know there are a few people who I've pointed out as being shady, Paperscraps right at the top of the list.
The just two hours later, he defends Paper and pushes the lynch on Adam instead:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=315210¤tpage=35#681
Also this comment of his annoyed me:
On March 07 2012 04:04 Snarfs wrote:Show nested quote +Not sure, what you are trying to get at here. You are saying that my voting of Decon is unjustified. Then Decon foses me with very little reasoning and that isn't OMGUS? Double standard. No comment here. I agree, Decon FoSing you was silly.
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On March 10 2012 10:25 Snarfs wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 10:16 deconduo wrote: If you want useful reads: -Paper is SK. -Probulous, Toast are town -Snarfs, Blue, AKCT are scum. Yikes! Does this mean I'm dying tonight and you want to look like you had no clue when I flip, or do you have something to back that up?
Its posts like this that make me think you are scum.
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Flip-flopping on its own is not a sign of scum. Look at Adam, he flipped-flopped on Bluelightz in the space of an hour and turned out to be town. Flip-flopping with no reason and no contributing is more likely to be mafia trying to avoid being noticed. Anyway here are few reasons why I think he is town
- Points out the weakness in Sandroba's vote for Pandain (klicky)
- Clearly explains his initial vote for Paperscraps with not terrible logic (klicky)
- Points out an interesting tidbit on Rg's read on Pandain and Pandain's subsequent gambit (klicky)
- His back and forth with Paper looks like two townies going at each other. (klicky)
I could go into more depth if necessary but he just doesn't look like scum to me. He has been too open and willing to push everyone for little mistakes to be mafia. Changing your mind is not a scummy thing to do if you have a reason for it. I changed my read on Paperscraps. Anyway, that is my read on him.
Day in just under an hour right?
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I have no problem defending myself to try and alleviate your concerns.
First off, yes I did flip flop a lot. I voiced my opinions and suspicions as they came across my mind. While I realize this may not have been the best idea, perhaps I should have waited until I had more information on things, you have to appreciate that this is my first game of forum mafia ever. I'm not trying to say that anything suspicious I did can be blamed on this, but certainly I think it justifies my unfiltered responses and comments.
Second, I have already stated that I don't see any reason to disbelieve Paper's vig claim. I think that both sides were brought up, mostly by Probulous and Pandain, and in the end, I choose to believe that he is telling the truth. Also, here is the full quote for reference (it is in reference to Pandain being shady):
On March 09 2012 07:19 Snarfs wrote: While I know there are a few people who I've pointed out as being shady, Paperscraps right at the top of the list, this is something I can keep coming back to agree on.
Notice how when asking for someone else's opinion on Paper, he asks the only other guy to have voted for him today? That's shadddddy.
Third, I did think it was silly of you to just claim that Paperscraps was going to be lynched day 2 after he voted you. I didn't see any reasoning for you to FoS him.
Finally, I apologize for implying you might be scum when you're being a tough read. However, I thought I would put that thought out there so that if something should happen to me tonight, people would at least consider the option.
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All right, seeing as everyone(except decon?) thinks/knows I'm town at this point, there's a pretty good chance I'm going to die. Thus, I went back and had a look through everyone’s filter and the entire thread in general. If I live, I'll talk to you all in a few minutes.
Paperscraps + Show Spoiler +As I've stated before, I'm always willing to change my views in light new evidence. Up until day 3, I'll admit, I had quite a bias against Paper, and I was actively looking for flaws in his play. However, I have seen absolutely no reason to disbelieve his vig claim. The vig claim: Paper takes particular interest in the vigilante claim. So much so that it caused me to think he was fishing for a blue role. Makes sense when he claims vig that he was probably trying to call rg out on his bluff. rg who are you shooting tonight? Also, he makes it quite clear from the beginning that he expects a lot out of Jackal. Jackal has posted no substance at all. His reaction to the Misder lynch was over done. He has buddied/defended Decon which I find scummy. @Jackal: I would like to see some actual scum hunting come from you. Anything at all really, that isn't filler On Sandroba: This quote was brought up as "damning" by both Pandain and Probulous: Only one person died last night. Something doesn't fit here. However, there are 14 players and up until that point, everyone had been assuming there were at least 2 KP: 1 from mafia and one from SK. Ask yourself if you really expected only a single kill. It makes sense that Sandroba was hit by an SK! He turned out to be mafia and I've been informed that SK goes after mafia first. Now, what about the KP on night 2? What's the missing link? Well, do you think it's so unreasonable that mafia and SK would both want to get rid of a town-sided Palmar? Sure, SK doesn't know Palmar's town, but they know he's not on their team. Who else were they going to kill? There is no reason to try and convince ourselves otherwise if it is the simplest explanation; therefore, we can't assume that they didn't double stack. If we do this, we are allowing ourselves to believe there is one less killer than there could potentially be, and that would probably not be good. My accusation: Paper's first reaction to my accusation is very town. While scum would be happy to lurk and not have people actively playing the game, he was happy that people were attempting analysis. Holy crap this is awesome! People are actually playing the game now. His answers to my accusations were all very towny. He understood that i actually believed he was scum and he tried to clear things up for me, quite patiently. He did not try to misdirect my claims, he did not try to discredit me. Even so, it was clear he was getting exasperated with me. Quite understandably. Conclusion: Paperscraps is our town vigilante. While his shot on Jackal, in hindsight, could have cost us one of our best Day 3 analysts, he had good reasoning in his own mind to take it.
Bluelightz + Show Spoiler +This will be a short section. His first (only) useful post that came when he was not under attack was an analysis of a person I am convinced is town (Paperscraps). He never explained his reasoning for thinking Pandain was scummy. I could see Pandain as scum, I'll explain later, I can't explain now cuz I got school work tho. Oh, I forgot to tell I don't find Pandain scummy after I read his filter He claimed rgTS was third party, but also most likely to flip scum. rgTheSchworz - Leaning Third Party Maybe... Right now, I believe rgTS has the largest chance of being scum so I am voting him. His reaction to Misder's flip was... unbelievable? I.... I.... what happened His response to taking pressure was to roll over and die. I don't care If I get lynched, If Town wants to lynch me fine. Know that the mislynch is on you. I could go on... just read his filter. He finally shows up when he has 3 votes on him and is likely to be lynched. And even then it's to provide more excuses. Day 1, I voted for rgTheSchworz because I believed he had the highest chance of flipping so called "scum", I botched up the sentence for voting by saying "scum" and not "third party" like I suspected him to be.
I admit, I have been providing excuses for most of the time because im at school for most of the time of the day.
And, I start posting at this ridiculous time because I went like School -> Pick-Up Dad -> Pick-Up Mom -> Dinner at a restaurant -> now As I've stated before, based on this one game, I would happily lynch Bluelightz day 1 any other game if he turns out to be town. He has provided NOTHING of use. He has actively contributed to the thread to make it look like he is not lurking with fluff "I'm going to bed" posts. His redemption: Not voting for Adam when Adam was up for lynch. I don’t think that cuts it. Why? Because I don’t think Bluelightz cares who gets lynched, he’s probably an SK.
Probulous + Show Spoiler +Everyone else seems to agree on this at this point. I agree .
Pandain + Show Spoiler +There have been some really scummy things. First of all, he bandwagoned on the Sandroba vote after a pitiful attempt to save him. Makes a slip in calling Sandroba “scum” twice as opposed to the SK he thought he was. I don’t actually know if that’s a slip. Do we refer to all anti-town as scum, or just mafia? There's no reason to vote sandroba, he's not scum(no resistance at all)so that leaves either sk or town. Rather than vote him, we should merely track him. This will effectively negate any chance of him shooting again. I do believe he's sk but feel this is A better alternative as it encompasses all the reasons we would want to lynch sk without the risk of lynching town. We should use today instead as an opportunity to lynch scum. There is effectively no support for Sandroba. But again, this only indicates he's not scum, as they wouldn't just let him(and he wouldn't be so lethargic about getting lynched), die when theres a valid excuse.
But I'm not even denying that Sandroba is probably scum. The key fact is that by lynching him we effectively waste a day to either confirm what we already assumed(he's SK), or the fact that he's a vet(in which case we just lynched a town woopdie doo). If we make him unable to shoot for fear of getting caught, then we don't even have to worry about him harming town. By having tracker continuously track him, it wastes tracker time when he could be finding more scum Then, during the night of Night 2, he has 7 out of 8 posts that are just fluff. I think the most damning thing about Pandain’s play though, was on Day 3.First, he votes Paperscraps immediately after his blue claim without any logic put behind it at all. His only mention of Paperscraps before this was much earlier in the game when he claimed that he was town, basically for WIFOM reasons (can’t be mafia because they wouldn’t push the same person over and over, can’t be SK because they wouldn’t be that active). Then, without defending his reasoning, he disappears for nearly 2 full days, only to show up 6 hours before the deadline. At that point, he dismisses all the evidence that people have provided against Paper and makes a big fluff post with 2 pointless lists and an excuse for being gone for 24 hours that just DOES NOT match up with his post. Look at what he claims: Before I go on, I want everyone to remember that this is the work of 24 hours of constant lurking, re reading, re-re reading, going through each filter again and again, rereading thread in entirety, and even night time pondering. Does that make sense given that this is what follows: On March 09 2012 06:16 Pandain wrote:I don't believe Paperscraps. I feel people are beliving he is town merely because he claimed vig. Everyone seems to have forgotten this role.... Show nested quote +On February 25 2012 12:25 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Vigilante: You are a Vigilante! Once per game, starting night 1, you may send in a night hit.
This doesn't mean its scum, but it does make us remember that there are now three possibilities for Paperscraps to be: 1. Serial killer.2. Mafia Vigilante 3. Vigilante Him claiming vigilante in no way makes him town. Rather, we must analyze two things in determining his alignment: 1. His reasoning/motivation behind shooting Jackal 2. His posts/votes this game(Normal Analysis) I'll be posting more once I make sense of everything..... No. It is completely incongruent. After Toast calls him out on this post, he shows up over 2 hours later with his justifications which boil down to calling out Paperscraps on a bunch of things he himself is guilty of. Conclusion: Scum. Oh this is great, I wrote this up about 7 hours before the lynch but he keeps talking. My read on Adam was uncertain. I was uncertain about everyone until i looked at it for like 36 hours, which you guys are like omg lurking. Then im like omg paper is wtf There’s no way you can be certain if you don’t have all the facts! This is so scum. Town would admit that there is a gap in their knowledge but Pandain refuses to admit when he could be wrong.
TheToast + Show Spoiler +Everyone else seems to agree on this at this point. I agree .
A Killer Cuppa Tea + Show Spoiler + Really tough to get a read on this guy. When he does post, I feel he explains his actions very well. Unfortunately, he doesn’t post a lot. His excuses have been a laptop dying and a mild concussion. I don’t think there’s enough evidence either way as to whether he is scum or town.
He says that hopefully once he gets home he’ll be able to contribute. That’d be nice.
deconduo + Show Spoiler +Really doesn’t have a lot of substance posts this game. Has proven in the past that he’s not afraid to bus a scum buddy night 1, bussing Sandroba would probably be just as easy if not easier on night 2 so I can’t see how that could be evidence for him being town. See decon vs. Annul in TL Mafia 37: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=191888¤tpage=25#490Hops on Adam’s bandwagon after reiterating points that have already been made, but what else was there to say about Adam at that point? Doesn’t really say whether he’s mafia or not. Conclusion: I’m leaning scum on him. There just hasn’t been much substance, but he has been trying to make himself look active.
Conclusions + Show Spoiler + I’d be happy lynching Pandain today. I think Bluelightz is a possible SK candidate given that pretty much everyone has tried to lynch him at one point or another but he’s still around not contributing. When Pandain flips red, until further evidence is provided, I would be happy with either a deconduo or AKCT lynch, preference being given to lynching deconduo.
And most importantly + Show Spoiler +A very special thank you to Probulous Whether you’re town or scum, you still think I'm semi competent and helped me get my points through unblocked. Thanks man.
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Day 4: The Fall Paperscraps was asleep in his hammock, when he thought he heard someone sneaking towards him in the dark. He opened one eye a tiny fraction, just enough to see, and slowly inched his hand towards his waist, where his dagger was tucked beneath his belt. As he finally grasped the handle of the blade, he listened closely, and tried to make out any movement in the near-pitch dark of the cabin in which he and several others slept. However, he heard nothing but the regular breathing and gentle snoring of his friends. Satisfied that all was well, he closed his eyes and moved his hand away from his weapon. Then a pistol cocked. Paperscraps instantly drew his blade, and tried to leap out of the hammock in which he lay, but he was too slow. The pistol shot woke the others in the room, but by the time they had lit a lantern to see what had happened, there was no trace of the shooter, only the corpse of Paperscraps, dripping blood onto the floor.
Meanwhile, Pandain sat in the ship's crow's nest, keeping on the look-out for "targets of oppurtunity", as the Captain liked to call the merchant ships they raided. With him, he had several oranges, which he had stolen from the Captain's food cache for his own personal consumption. He was content, sitting at the top of the ship, watching the sun as it rose in the early hours of the dawn, and eating his fruit. The only annoyance he had was that he had forgotten to bring a knife with him to cut the oranges.
The sound of another person climbing the rigging behind him broke him out of his thoughts. He assumed it was the next man to replace him on watch, and addressed him without turning around, "Hey, friend, you're a little early, but that's alright. You wouldn't 'appen to 'ave a knife on you, would'ya? I nicked these oranges from the Captain, and if you could lend me something to cut them with, I'd let you 'ave some. What'ya think?"
Pandain heard the other person pause for a second. Then, he heard a cool voice say, "Well, yes, I do have a knife. It's not for oranges, though.".
Confused, Pandain began to turn around, and that was when he felt the blade of the knife slide into his back. He gasped, and that was the last sound to leave his lips, as he was thrust from the crow's nest, and gravity cruelly pulled him towards the deck and his death, many feet below.
Paperscraps the Vigilante has been shot! Pandain the Townie has fallen to his death!
Day 4 has begun! You have until 12 KST, 48 hours from now to vote for the lynch!
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Well, looks like I was wrong about at least one thing
##Vote Bluelightz
I've explained this already, and given the flip I'm going to leave it here while we figure things out.
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Wow
I guess this confirms the existence of a SK then.
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am here now gonna read up on whos left.
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Decon that epic reads post from Snarfs is why I think he is town. It is pretty logical though I disagree on a few points most importantly it is transparent.
Given there is a SK the sandroba hit was probably real. Paperscraps' vig claim was real which means the SK must have doublestacked on either Palmar or Jackal. We are at 6/14 with two scum (probably based on balance, is this likely) and a SK. If we miss-lynch today we lose. Half the players left should be on your suspicious list.
I think Snarfs is town, I am town. That leaves three lynch targets in Decon, Bluelightz, Toast and AKCT. Filters how we come.
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After counting math, today, we NEED to lynch the SK
3-2-1 split isn't good.
Here is the possible resuslts if we lynch scum today
1-1-1(1 kp town, 1 kp scum) 2-1-0(1 kp scum, 1 kp SK{but if the sk has not been shot yet it will be 2-1-1}
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On March 10 2012 12:11 Probulous wrote:Wow I guess this confirms the existence of a SK then.
Just wondering, what makes you so sure there isn't a Mafia vig? That is still a distinct possibility....
I'll still go with what I said before and say we need to proceed as if there is an SK, but there is still the chance there is not. Unless you know something specific....
On March 10 2012 12:23 Probulous wrote: Decon that epic reads post from Snarfs is why I think he is town. It is pretty logical though I disagree on a few points most importantly it is transparent.
Given there is a SK the sandroba hit was probably real. Paperscraps' vig claim was real which means the SK must have doublestacked on either Palmar or Jackal. We are at 6/14 with two scum (probably based on balance, is this likely) and a SK. If we miss-lynch today we lose. Half the players left should be on your suspicious list.
I think Snarfs is town, I am town. That leaves three lynch targets in Decon, Bluelightz, Toast and AKCT. Filters how we come.
Again, what makes you so sure SK double stakced on Jakal or Palmar? If the SK exists, they could have chosen to not submit a night hit. Strange that you would jump to conclusions....
Given that the SK would be pushing scum for lynching all game, it would be really easy to appear townish.....
FOS: Probulous
Re-read this man's filter people.....
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Because they wouldn't have shot sandroba then would they?
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Honesty Toast I thought you had this figured out? Think about it, the evidence makes far more sense that there is a SK than that sandroba randomly claimed for no reason.
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Why would the SK hold their shot? Makes no sense because the sooner they shoot scum the less chance they have of dying. We know that Paper shot Jackal so we know that either scum or SK shot Palmar. Therefore there must have been a doublestack.
Yes I am assuming that the SK shot every night but assuming otherwise makes no sense. Yes I am assuming that sandroba was really shot but gain his claim makes no sense otherwise.
I wasn't convinced before because I couldn't be 100% certain of Paperscraps claim. I can't believe that after so many days working this out you come to different conclusions? Simple question what would you need to be convinced there is a SK?
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Why would you assume there is a double stack instead of assuming there is a Mafia vig? You jumped to conclusions really fast after the day post. Only person to have put any pressure on you so far this game was Adam, and now he's dead.
And three posts across 8 minutes? I love how you start out all calm about it then get more verbose in each successive post.
Not confirmed anything yet, but this is enough to make me suspicious...
Surprisingly, no one has asked the really crucial question here; why did Paperscraps get killed last night? A vig who has used his shot is not threat to scum, and if anything he was pulling a lot of attention away from the SK. So why was he killed?
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On March 10 2012 14:22 TheToast wrote: Why would you assume there is a double stack instead of assuming there is a Mafia vig? You jumped to conclusions really fast after the day post. Only person to have put any pressure on you so far this game was Adam, and now he's dead.
And three posts across 8 minutes? I love how you start out all calm about it then get more verbose in each successive post.
Not confirmed anything yet, but this is enough to make me suspicious...
I'll save you some time, I'm not the serial killer. You are right that it could have been a mafia vig. I had discounted the idea because to me mafia runs a huge risk keeping him till late game, he could shot or hung before they get to use him. Plus that would require sandroba's claim to be fake. I still think that there is like 90% assurance there is a SK. It explains things better.
Surprisingly, no one has asked the really crucial question here; why did Paperscraps get killed last night? A vig who has used his shot is not threat to scum, and if anything he was pulling a lot of attention away from the SK. So why was he killed? Mafia thought he was the SK? If that is true it makes sense for them to try and push for his lynch because he is a veteran (saves them shots). I'll take a look at those pushing Paperscraps yesterday.
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GG guys!
Edit: Could whoever has the quicktopic, PM me.
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-There are 3 town, 2 mafia and 1 SK alive. -Mafia have a medic. -If we lynch the SK we lose, unless there is a town vet or medic around to absorb a hit.
-Bluellightz is scum: He jumped on the Sandroba BW when it was over. He posts this which is completely untrue:
On March 10 2012 12:34 Bluelightz wrote: After counting math, today, we NEED to lynch the SK
3-2-1 split isn't good.
Here is the possible resuslts if we lynch scum today
1-1-1(1 kp town, 1 kp scum) 2-1-0(1 kp scum, 1 kp SK{but if the sk has not been shot yet it will be 2-1-1}
If we kill the SK we are almost guaranteed to lose. The only way we can win is if the SK kills a mafia tonight, which can't happen if he's dead.
##Vote Bluelightz
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Yeah decon I realized it but didnt bother to correct sorry :|
How does Mafia have a medic(the sandroba hit?)
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On March 10 2012 21:02 Bluelightz wrote: Yeah decon I realized it but didnt bother to correct sorry :|
How does Mafia have a medic(the sandroba hit?)
Explanation for all that:
-11 town + 3 mafia would be very townsided, unless mafia had 3 PRs. As sandroba flipped goon this is not our setup. -10 town + 4 mafia is a more balanced setup, but then it would be 3-3 and the game would be over. -11 town + 2 mafia + SK would be too weak for mafia -Therefore it must be 10 town, 3 mafia, 1 SK.
-Mafia must have a medic as SK hit sandroba night one and was saved. He didn't flip vet and no town medic has come forward to claim the save.
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I agree decon, also I gtg now.
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On March 10 2012 21:02 Bluelightz wrote: Yeah decon I realized it but didnt bother to correct sorry :|
How does Mafia have a medic(the sandroba hit?) It's not you posting things that are incorrect that seems mafia-esque.
It's you posting things, realizing you're wrong, but then waiting for someone else to call you out on it rather than correcting yourself. You did the same thing with thinking Pandain was suspicious and then never explaining your vote switch to Paper.
Care to explain this behaviour?
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Decon, I am here, just sleeping earlier
I have no idea where AKCT is, maybe he doesn't either? It sucks majorly that we have two lurkers at this stage of the game.
I think this post of yours (Klicky) is really useful. Especially given Bluelightz's response
On March 10 2012 21:02 Bluelightz wrote: Yeah decon I realized it but didnt bother to correct sorry :|
How does Mafia have a medic(the sandroba hit?)
As Snarfs pointed out only mafia have an incentive to hide information. Townies point out their mistakes so that others don't make the same ones. Mafia just hope that people don't notice. I am more concerned that he hasn't bothered offering any reads or any insight into other people's posting. He is still lurking despite me badgering him all game long to post so I am would be more than happy for him to swing. His behaviour does not make sense as town and at this stage of the game I can only assume he is doing this on purpose.
##vote Bluelightz
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Is there anybody out there?
AKCT I hope your head is still in one piece cause it would be nice to have your input. Blulightz, any words at all? This place is like a morgue
From phone
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Alright, i'll speak up
I think me & AKCT are town, I have a fainting read that Snarfs is too.......
I don't really know who to Lynch.
As an answer to TheToast's question, I think that Paperscraps was killed because today LYLO, mafia were afraid that Paperscraps would push Deconduo, what do you guys think of this?
For some odd reason Deconduo stands out too me
I'm not sure, but I think There should be 1 Town and maifa/sk in AKCT & Snarf as well in TheToast & Probulous.
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Oh, and im sure your gonna speak up on my contradicton, so for more clarity please ignore the reads of me thinking BOTH AKCT & Snarfs are town thanks^^
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@Snarfs I wanted to say that I wasn't suspicious of Pandain anymore after rereading his filter at the time.
Sorry for triple posting.
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...... WHERE IS EVERYONE? Mafia are just lurking their heart away
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I am now going to vote TheToast cause I think he is scum.
##Vote: TheToast
I think that TheToast and deconduo are trying to make a web of lies (Make town think there is a mafia medic/vig)
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On March 11 2012 21:39 Bluelightz wrote: Oh, and im sure your gonna speak up on my contradicton, so for more clarity please ignore the reads of me thinking BOTH AKCT & Snarfs are town thanks^^ Lol.
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On March 12 2012 01:11 Bluelightz wrote: I am now going to vote TheToast cause I think he is scum.
##Vote: TheToast
I think that TheToast and deconduo are trying to make a web of lies (Make town think there is a mafia medic/vig)
Please explain the following if there isn't a mafia medic:
-There has to be a Serial Killer -There is absolutely no reason for Mafia or the Serial Killer not to have shot night 1 -Sandroba claimed hit -No town medic has claimed saving Sandroba -Sandroba wasn't a vet -Therefore, a mafia medic MUST have saved Sandroba.
Also Toast is arguing the exact opposite of me, saying that there isn't an SK, and that Sanroba could have lied. I'm not so sure he is town anymore.
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On March 10 2012 12:54 TheToast wrote: Again, what makes you so sure SK double stakced on Jakal or Palmar? If the SK exists, they could have chosen to not submit a night hit. Strange that you would jump to conclusions....
That's a really bad assumption. There is almost no reason for an SK not to shoot.
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Actually decon yeah I agree. I still think that TheToast is our best chance at lynching scum today though.
I......Could mafia kp have hit the SK first night?(I thought about this but then if Mafia KP hit the SK first night why didnt they just straight up aim another kp the next night)
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Current Vote Count:
Bluelightz - 3 Probulous Deconduo Snarfs
TheToast - 1 Bluelightz
If you have not yet voted, please do so before the deadline ends in 7 hours, 36 minutes.
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Alright people we don't have that many hours left in the day.
Town Probulous
I think Snarfs is town and I won't be voting for him.
AKCT could be scum but I think that a Pandain town flip pretty much confirms him as town. His reaction to Pandain's gambit was really townie and since Pandain was town there is no way they could have planned that. It isn't much but given his filter and smashed head we don't have much else.
That leaves Toast, Bluelightz and Decon. Of those Decon has been the most townie in the last day or so.
TheToast Toast has been a little strange with his insistence that there may not be a SK. Yes, that is a possibility but given the shots and Decon's explanation of balance it makes sense to assume there is one. It's WIFOM but he was also the only one that Pandain really went after on Day 2. From a mafia perspective it makes sense to shoot Pandain so that he can't push a Toast lynch today.
On Day 1 he defended me and FOS'd (sort of) sandroba with this post (Klicky), specifically
On March 03 2012 00:03 TheToast wrote: His play so far this game has been weird, all he's done is shown up a few times to make some short stubby posts and then disappears again. Seems odd since every tutorial/analysis I've read says lurking is a bad way to play as Mafia. Shouldn't a vet like sandro know this? What does he have to gain as scum by lurking? I've got my money on SK, it makes the most sense.
At this point I'm pretty convinced Probulous is town. The whole "spam" thing was rediculous, the list he posted served a purpose it wasn't just fluff. He's also been one of the most active members of this game so far, he's got just about the most posts to go through and there's really nothing that jumps out as specifically scummy. He's so far been pretty even handed with his analysis. This I had him pegged as town but then his he went after Pandain. Here he soft defends sandroba
On March 06 2012 04:35 TheToast wrote: Frankly I think there is a better case against Pandain. Sandro said a few pages back that he was requesting a replacement, so idk if he's got IRL stuff that's causing him to be lurky. I have to say though the posts he has made so far have been kind of strange and out of place. I want to see if he has any response to the accusations, the vet claim is interesting and could explain some of his posts but he needs to give us some reason to believe this. In all, I think he is a good lynch candidate, but Pandain is better IMO. He also placed a really scummy vote ten minutes before the lynch which effectively sealed Misder's fate he is yet to acknowledge the truth in this. Our conversation went on for ages but ended up with
On March 06 2012 09:05 TheToast wrote: ...Why didn't you bring any of this up yesterday when I came up with the sandro is SK theory? I suppose it makes sense, but I still say if there is a confirmed scum you vote them over the SK. Pandain is confirmed scum IMO. If in your terrible reasoning that makes me scum, then whatever... Note he accepts that my argument is correct in that you should always vote for the SK over a townie but he doesn't accept that he has some fault in Misder's lynch. My basic premise is explained here (Klicky). It is worth reading the full conversation though.
However he did vote for sandroba pretty early with this post (Klicky). Overall I think he is scum but there are inconsistencies and I can explain most of his behaviour from a town perspective. Thus I am more happy to vote for his partner.
Bluelightz
On March 02 2012 10:19 Bluelightz wrote:I could see Pandain as scum, I'll explain later, I can't explain now cuz I got school work tho.
On March 03 2012 08:45 Bluelightz wrote: Oh, I forgot to tell I don't find Pandain scummy after I read his filter As Snarfs rightly pointed out, WTF?
I made a case on Bluelightz here (Klicky). Specifically this bit
On March 04 2012 07:25 Probulous wrote: ...You have been told numerous times not to post town/null lists. At least this time you label someone red. But your reason is so majorly hypocritical and stupid it hurts my brain. Jackal, from what I have read always lurks day 1. But the real kicker is that you then decide not to vote for him? Instead you vote for the person you called third party and then in the same post they changed to scum? You also left your vote there when it was clear he was never going to get lynched. That is an easy way to avoid responsibility... He doesn't bother to respond at all eventhough he had been lurking and was around (Klicky). I've explained my suspicions of his recent play (Klicky). I have trouble reading Bluelightz because he is always scummy. The difference is that this game he has actively avoided being helpful. When he is town he says stuff that looks like mafia play but this game he has tried to avoid saying anything.
Toast may be scum but I am sure that Bluelightz is
##vote Bluelightz
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Since I'm gonna get lynched I want to apologize in advance to anyone town/has flipped town for sucking today, getting lynched, and losing the game.
I only know one way we can have one more chance:
IF The SK has been hit already, and mafia and sk hit each other it will be with
2-1
That's the new LYLO ;3
Probulous is the new scum read for me
##Unvote ##Vote: Probulous
Again, sorry
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Oh, By the way scum are voting me ^^
Look, if I was scum wouldnt the other scum be trying to derail this? If I was SK I would've claimed no? Town WILL lose if we lynch the SK y'know, I'll lose too IF I was the SK right nao but im not.
It may sound hard to believe but, I am town, trying to salvage this game.
This may be my last post so, do what you will with this game Town Players, it's at your hands.
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Prob this is ridiculous, Bluelightz calls me out as scum and suddenly I'm the #2 suspect??? Maybe you are working in tandem with him? Bussing Bluelightz for ability to take me down?
Why is my insistence that there isn't an SK strange? There is still the very real possibility that there is a mafia vig who hit last night. The thing that's strange is your insistence that there IS and SK. The only way you could know that is if you WERE the SK or if you had some inside information that sandro's claim was real. So tell me, which is it?
I didn't FOS you for the hell of it. If we have an SK we need to figure out who it is and they need to die tomorrow. No one besides Adam has put any pressure on you all game, that's simply not healthy for town to have a completely 100% confirmed town player. All to easy for SK to hide amongst town. And after I call you out, suddenly I'm scum and you use that as evidence against me? I'm only becoming more suspicious of you Probulous...
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I am trying to work out if scum could bus their buddy and still win. This Bluelightz lynch has been pretty easy and easy lynches give me the willies. We currently have a 3-2-1 setup (I am of course assuming there is a SK, sue me). If we lynch mafia we have 3-1-1.
Mafia can then shoot town overnight and end up in a 2-1-1 situation. If they push for a SK lynch they end up at 2-1 and can shoot for the win. If they don't shoot tonight or hit the SK they end up at 3-1-1 and town can win. Thus I think mafia will shoot for town tonight and just hope that the SK doesn't shoot the remaining mafia. In this situation they fight for another day and can push for a SK lynch to win. This is the stratedy that I would take if I was mafia and so bussing Bluelightz today makes sense to me.
I have ignored the implications of the SK shooting because mafia have to WIFOM that for themselves. This is the information they know and so have to make a decision based on this alone.
Of course if Bluelightz is town then mafia are in a much stronger position but the point is that they can still win if they bus him so it is not out of the question.
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On March 12 2012 09:45 TheToast wrote: Prob this is ridiculous, Bluelightz calls me out as scum and suddenly I'm the #2 suspect??? Maybe you are working in tandem with him? Bussing Bluelightz for ability to take me down?
My logic is simple, I think Snarfs is town, and AKCT is probably town with Bluelightz scum. Thus it comes down to a choice between you and Decon. How can you be surprised that you are my second target if you think decon is town?
Why is my insistence that there isn't an SK strange? There is still the very real possibility that there is a mafia vig who hit last night. The thing that's strange is your insistence that there IS and SK. The only way you could know that is if you WERE the SK or if you had some inside information that sandro's claim was real. So tell me, which is it?
Again that requires a fake sandroba claim which makes no sense to me. Why do it? And in such a manner? You have yet to come up with a reasonable explanation for it. Then it would also require that scum hold that vigilante till night 3 which is a huge risk. Especially since if this is true then they shot Palmar night 2 who must have been near the top of potential medic protect lists given his indentification of sandroba as scum. If I was scum with a vig I would have doublestacked Palmar that night, just to be sure. In essence to explain the kill points you need a sandroba fake claim with a choice not to doublestack Palmar after he outed a scum. Hell if they thought they had the SK in their sights surely they would have doublestacked him. It makes almost no sense for a Vig to live as long as you claim. Finally take a look at decon's post regarding balance. For their to be a vig there must be 2 mafia total with one being a goon and the other a vig, not balanced.
Yes it is possible but it highly highly unlikely and not a position to make decisions based on.
I didn't FOS you for the hell of it. If we have an SK we need to figure out who it is and they need to die tomorrow. No one besides Adam has put any pressure on you all game, that's simply not healthy for town to have a completely 100% confirmed town player.
Come again? Anyone that is 100% confirmed town at this stage of the game is gold. They lower the chance of lynching town and probably draw mafia shots. If not mafia have to WIFOM a possible medic protect. Confirmed town are awesome, what the hell was that statement? Adam died because he played a lurky game with bad reasoning for his votes and a ridiculous OMGUS case against me. You voted for him so don't go blaming that all on me. At least I put my thoughts on him loud and clear. You jumped on at the last minute.
All to easy for SK to hide amongst town. And after I call you out, suddenly I'm scum and you use that as evidence against me? I'm only becoming more suspicious of you Probulous... See above, it is either you or decon and right now you look worse. I can't be 100% sure but I have to make a choice.
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On March 12 2012 09:34 Bluelightz wrote: Oh, By the way scum are voting me ^^
Look, if I was scum wouldnt the other scum be trying to derail this? If I was SK I would've claimed no? Town WILL lose if we lynch the SK y'know, I'll lose too IF I was the SK right nao but im not.
It may sound hard to believe but, I am town, trying to salvage this game.
This may be my last post so, do what you will with this game Town Players, it's at your hands.
You're still not making sense. A SK claim just means he dies tomorrow? Read my post, scum can still win with you as a bus. If you're town I will make you my Day 1 policy lynch because you have made no attempt until the last 24hrs to save yourself. You have given us nothing but excuses all game long and now you come back pleading.
Finally I hope that AKCT comes back soon because otherwise we have no chance of winning. A Modkill on a probable townie even with a scum lynch gives us 2-1-1 which is a loss. I am pretty pissed right now because I have never reached end game and this one is going to be fucked by people not making their alignments clear.
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AKCT if you are reading this you need to vote or you will be modkilled and we fucking lose.
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Toast here are few reasons why I currently think decon is more likely to be town than you
- Points out sandroba's uselessness after the Misder flip (Klicky)
- Pushes Palmar on his non-existent logic. Now yes Palmar was town but this reads as someone genuinely trying to provoke Palmar into a reaction. (Klicky)
- The Kill Point question as I have explained previously.(Klicky 1, Klicky 2)
- His case on Adam and Paper which were both wrong were still transparent. He actually gave his reasoning for his vote and voted when the decision was still up in the air, unlike you. (Klicky)
So yes, he could be scum but you look far more likely.
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If we lose to a modkill this will be utterly depressing.
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Given he hasn't posted since the 9th I don't have much confidence in him
On March 10 2012 10:16 deconduo wrote: If you want useful reads: -Paper is SK. -Probulous, Toast are town -Snarfs, Blue, AKCT are scum. Do you stand by these reads? Obviously not Paper but they others.
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On March 12 2012 10:29 Probulous wrote:Given he hasn't posted since the 9th I don't have much confidence in him Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 10:16 deconduo wrote: If you want useful reads: -Paper is SK. -Probulous, Toast are town -Snarfs, Blue, AKCT are scum. Do you stand by these reads? Obviously not Paper but they others.
Not so much anymore. I was most confident in you being town and Paper being SK. The fact that Paper flipped vig has fucked with my confidence a lot. I'm also worried about the complete lack of resistance to the bluelightz lynch, though a blue+AKCT scumteam would explain that a lot.
If that's the case, it would mean that the SK lies between you snarfs and toast. Now, an SK can play just like a townie, and they tend to be a lot harder to catch. I've been flippping through filters and Toast's last couple of posts seem off to me.
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One thing I'm curious about is this: TheToast tunneled Pandain the entire game until he flipped town. It doesn't seem like something scum would do because it immediately casts them in suspicion when that person flips.
How often does scum do that?
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On March 12 2012 10:52 Snarfs wrote: One thing I'm curious about is this: TheToast tunneled Pandain the entire game until he flipped town. It doesn't seem like something scum would do because it immediately casts them in suspicion when that person flips.
How often does scum do that?
I kind of did the opposite when I was scum in my last game but with the same intention. I was a weird role but hear me out. The advantage of tunneling a known townie is that they are unlikely to actually get lynched. So you can place your vote without having to explain it. Then when they do flip you react the same as a townie would. Remember if your reads are wrong that does not mean you are scum, townies are wrong too. I was wrong about Adam for example. The point is why you voted for that person.
My biggest issue with Toast's Day 1 Pandain vote is that it was 10 minute before the deadline and he knew that Misder was going to be lynched if his vote stayed there. He says others could have been swayed but no-one was around. Even so he never changed. He says he believed Misder to be town and sandroba to be SK but he didn't vote for sandroba even though that would have ensured that Misder lived and sandroba died. He acknowledges that it is better to kill a SK than town but hasn't accepted that his decision directly lead to a townie being lynched. The votes were tied and he could have chosen to kill the SK (in his mind) but instead he voted elsewhere. His reasoning is bad, that is why I find it scummy.
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Hey Wiggles Daylight savings time has me screwed up. The day ends in 1 hour right? You said before it would end at 11KST but that would only be a 47 hour day...
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On March 12 2012 11:02 TheToast wrote: Hey Wiggles Daylight savings time has me screwed up. The day ends in 1 hour right? You said before it would end at 11KST but that would only be a 47 hour day... Yes, day ends in 44 minutes, Daylight Savings Time screwed me up. We'll increase the day by an hour, and have a 23 hour night.
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Current Vote Count:
Bluelightz - 4 TheToast Probulous Deconduo Snarfs
Probulous - 1 Bluelightz
TheToast - 0
Bluelightz
If you have not yet voted, please do so before the deadline ends in 24 minutes.
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Bitter tears and rage are starting to swell inside me. AKCT better vote or he better not be town cause otherwise my face is going to hurt from the indentation it will make on my keyboard. This game has been fun but if we lose because someone actually got their head smashed in I am going to lose my sanity.
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##Unvote ##Vote Probulous
Sorry prob
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##Unvote ##Vote: Probulous
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FUCK YOU BASTARDS!!!!!
Bluelightz come on baby save me now
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SNARFS they just outed themselves, change quick!!!
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GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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That was closer than intended
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You assholes
We played, game over guys. One time, just one time I would like to win and I got so close
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Well played
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BLUELIGHTZ I AM GONNA KILL YOU!!!!
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On March 12 2012 12:01 Probulous wrote:You assholes We played, game over guys. One time, just one time I would like to win and I got so close
Were you SK?
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Ok not really but man you hurt me so bad
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Night 4: Off with their heads! Probulous was dragged unceremoniously before the Captain and First Mate, his hands tied behind him. What was left of the crew was gathered together, and jeered and yelled, while Mattchew read from a scrap of paper in his hand:
"Probulous, you have been charged with the act of mutinying against the Captain and crew of the SS Qatol. Your fellow sailors have stepped forward to speak against you, and have provided evidence against you. The punishment for this crime, is death. How do you plea?"
Probulous looked up, and responded angrily, "I ain't with them, but I do admit I've been killing you pigs one by one for my own pleasure. I like the way you squeal before you die. I'm just mad that I haven't got the chance to carve up that bastard you call a Captain yet!". Finishing, he spat towards the Captain, and glared at him.
"Very well, then," Mattchew said icily, "Carry on with the proceedings".
With those words, a man stepped out of the crowd, cutlass in hand, and swung towards Probulous's neck. The blow took his head clean off, and the decapitated body began to spray out black blood, much to the delight of those assembled.
Probulous the Serial Killer has been tried and decapitated!
+ Show Spoiler [Final Vote Count] +Final Vote Count:
Probulous - 3 TheToast Deconduo Bluelightz
TheToast - 2 Snarfs Probulous
Bluelightz
Bluelightz - 0
TheToast Probulous Deconduo Snarfs
It is now Night 4! Please submit your actions before the deadline, 24 hours from now at 12 KST! A Killer Cuppa Tea has failed to vote, but I am holding off on any action for another 24 hours.
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On March 12 2012 12:03 Probulous wrote: Yup, I am indeed the SK
Sweet, I was worried there for a minute that we fucked up. We were fairly confident though.
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Lol Bluelightz, you are a scum's dream come true hahaha
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On March 12 2012 12:08 Snarfs wrote: Wait, it's not over? No, town can still win. It will end when there is no way to stop mafia from winning.
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Well.. this is gonna be an awkward 24 hours...
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True, especially since you're the medic who's going to die tonight.
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Well even if I'm not, we lynch one of you, the other guy shoots the other one of us, then we have to race to see who can vote the other person first? Seems awkward
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Unless a mafia medic can't shoot?
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We kill one of you tonight, it's 2-2 tomorrow and we win.
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Oh lol, I completely forgot AKCT was in this game still
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So let the WIFOM-ing begin
Vet or Medic Snarfs? Do you want to die tonight?
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I don't know. Do you expect me to pretend to be one of the two subtly so that it seems like I'm trying to convince you that I am that role, or do you expect me to expect you to expect that and so pretend to not be?
Just let me know and I'll oblige.
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On March 12 2012 12:46 Snarfs wrote: I don't know. Do you expect me to pretend to be one of the two subtly so that it seems like I'm trying to convince you that I am that role, or do you expect me to expect you to expect that and so pretend to not be?
Just let me know and I'll oblige.
This seems antagonistic. Maybe you want us to shoot you? As vet that would be your best bet. Of course even if you were a medic and we shoot one of the others, we have a 50-50 chance of winning. If your vet it's a 100% chance of winning. Do you have any thoughts on that snarfies?
Oh and Bluelightz, I'm curious, have you ever won a game as town? Like seriously, I think there's such a thing as the Bluelightz curse. Any town unlucky enough to get Bluelightz on their side loses the game. What do you think? Nice ring to it right? The curse of the Bluelightz that sounds good too. Seriously, how fail are you? I don't expect you to respond since the only things you post about are when you are going to school or work like this is flippin' twitter. Can't forget the occasional completely random person that you call out as scum. It's true that you will eventually land on scum, only after lynching the entire town. Way to go buddy..
Actually the whole lot of you are pretty fail. Didn't you all wonder why you are the ones left alive? Snarfs I don't think you had a single good read this whole game. Except for Sandro, but he pretty much put in zero effort this game; that's why we had him killed. And lol how easily all of you bought that "Calling it now Sandro and Pandain scum team" shenanigans. How obvious was that lol?
There's a reason why we lynched Palmar when we did and left the rest of you alive, he was the only one making any sense. Snarfies lol at your support of Adam. There was not one good shred of evidence against him. And you led Probulous lead your right into that. HA! And LOL at the Paper thing. He was like the most confirmed town this whole game, and you guys were all FOSing him.
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I won purgatory Nailed the angels (Nailed RoL d1 but didnt push lol, nailed jackal day 3, nailed grackaroni all game but never got him lynched )
Oh and the most interesting thing about me is that I NEVER EVER EVER got lynched in my whole mafia life
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Also seriously insulting me -_- I'm never playing with you again
+ Show Spoiler +
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Toast, please cut out the personal insults. Criticizing someone's play is fine, but undermining them on a personal level goes beyond that. Consider yourself warned.
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Actually no I meant that.
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United States5684 Posts
On March 12 2012 13:47 TheToast wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 12:46 Snarfs wrote: I don't know. Do you expect me to pretend to be one of the two subtly so that it seems like I'm trying to convince you that I am that role, or do you expect me to expect you to expect that and so pretend to not be?
Just let me know and I'll oblige. This seems antagonistic. Maybe you want us to shoot you? As vet that would be your best bet. Of course even if you were a medic and we shoot one of the others, we have a 50-50 chance of winning. If your vet it's a 100% chance of winning. Do you have any thoughts on that snarfies? Oh and Bluelightz, I'm curious, have you ever won a game as town? Like seriously, I think there's such a thing as the Bluelightz curse. Any town unlucky enough to get Bluelightz on their side loses the game. What do you think? Nice ring to it right? The curse of the Bluelightz that sounds good too. Seriously, how fail are you? I don't expect you to respond since the only things you post about are when you are going to school or work like this is flippin' twitter. Can't forget the occasional completely random person that you call out as scum. It's true that you will eventually land on scum, only after lynching the entire town. Way to go buddy.. Actually the whole lot of you are pretty fail. Didn't you all wonder why you are the ones left alive? Snarfs I don't think you had a single good read this whole game. Except for Sandro, but he pretty much put in zero effort this game; that's why we had him killed. And lol how easily all of you bought that "Calling it now Sandro and Pandain scum team" shenanigans. How obvious was that lol? There's a reason why we lynched Palmar when we did and left the rest of you alive, he was the only one making any sense. Snarfies lol at your support of Adam. There was not one good shred of evidence against him. And you led Probulous lead your right into that. HA! And LOL at the Paper thing. He was like the most confirmed town this whole game, and you guys were all FOSing him. The Irony in this post is unbelievable, but that will be explained at a later date
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Since I dont know what to post just asking Mattchew, are you happy that Seal got through the qualifiers?
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United States5684 Posts
+ Show Spoiler +YOU HAVE NO FUCKING IDEA HOW HAPPY I AM ABOUT SEAL GETTING THROUGH QUALIFIERS,
and also beating ForGG and theSTC back to back in IPL TAC was pretty sweet as well.
ok no more sc2 talk... let the game play out
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If there is TWO SKs im gonna laugh so hard.
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So town's not going to try to hedge their bets? Just going to lurk for the rest of the game? Here's a thought: if you have a medic or a vig left, there's a 2/3s chance we win this game.
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Oh I failed LOL.
One.Two.Three
Hey look at me!
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Wiggles can you confirm that it's a 23 hour night tonight, or is there still an hour to go?
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On March 13 2012 10:54 TheToast wrote: Wiggles can you confirm that it's a 23 hour night tonight, or is there still an hour to go? You have an hour. I didn't realize Korea apparently doesn't have Daylights Savings, or something. Go off the night post, 12 KST.
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IM A VET TOAST MWAHAHAHAHAAHAHA
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On March 13 2012 11:22 Bluelightz wrote: IM A VET TOAST MWAHAHAHAHAAHAHA
Don't worry, snarfs the medic is dying tonight anyway. He is clearly blue. I was the one who pegged Probulous when the rest of you were screaming he was confirmed town. I was right then, I'm right now. Buh-bye snarfies.
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4 MINUTES
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Snarfs
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I'm going to have a heart attack seriously
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And I'm probably about to break the F5
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why did you betray us toast
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I wanted Wiggle's booty all to meself
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Just realized I didn't use piraty language this whole gam :'[
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Post going up soon, I'm just finishing writing it.
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OMG SERIOUSLY THIS IS KILLING MEE!!!!! This game is stupid close.... arrrrrhhhhhh
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LOL
FIGHT 4 EMPEROR ---> LOST --> NVM I HATE TEH EMPEROR IMMA STEAL GOLD
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Could spoil the suspense and tell you my role, but it's more fun to wait
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Me heart can't handle this scallywagery! Arrrrrrr
Me wooden leg!!
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I needs a drop of me rum!
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F5 key officially broke. Now using F3 and F2 since together they = F5 :D
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4 years have actually just been taken off my life due to stress
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I'll grab a gun from NMMI and shoot you MWAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHA
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Wooden leg > Bolter as a weapon
It's true
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R1ch doesn't like have a script in place that bans IPs due to mass refreshing does he??
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nah our progress pony is awesome and made another script to stop that script
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RBD is best pony.
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Rainbow Dash is like 10x flamewheel. How many dragons has he fought?
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Is there a nervous breakdown smiley? That's the one I need right here... *O*
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WAIT RBD = RAINBOW DASH?
I Stand corrected
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WAT Y U NOT KNOW TF2 STUFF?
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Never played. If I were to start I'm pretty sure I would cease all other life activities.
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God I have to pee.... Must.... not... leave.... computer....
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Wiggles doesn't just write posts.... he creates masterpieces....
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I see the gang's all here.
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On March 01 2012 12:41 Probulous wrote: For reference
Player List: 1. Jackal58 - USA 2. Paperscraps - USA 3. Bluelightz - Indonesia 4. Probulous - Great Southern Land 5. Snarfs - Kanucksland 6. rgTheSchworz - Romania 7. Misder - Fairy Land AKA who the fucks knows 8. Pandain - USA 9. Palmar - Iceland 10. Sandroba - USA 11. TheToast - USA 12. Adam4167 - Land Down under 13. A Killer Cuppa Tea - Neighbours with Misder 14. deconduo - Ireland
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Day 5: The End The sound of a gunshot rang out in the still morning air, rousing the crew of the Qatol into action. Quickly, First Mate Mattchew and Captain Wiggles made their way out onto the open deck of the ship. There, the body of A Killer Cuppa Tea lay sprawled and bleeding on the ground. Above his corpse stood Deconduo and TheToast, confronted Snarfs and Bluelightz. TheToast held a smoking pistol in his hand, as well as a small sword, and the three other men had weapons ready as well.
"Well, well, well..." intoned Wiggles, "It seems as though you scum have finally revealed yourselves! There's not much else to say, though. Send them to Hell, boys!"
And with that, Snarfs and Bluelightz, closely followed be Captain Wiggles, dove towards Deconduo and TheToast, arms in hand.
The combat was quick, but brutal. Snarfs took a blow to the head as he rushed in, and reeled back, holding his hand to his bleeding face. Enraged, Bluelightz fought with TheToast, and delivered a strong blow to his leg. TheToast fell to the ground, but before Bluelightz could finish the job, he was shot by Deconduo, from where he dueled with Captain Wiggles. Snarfs, having recovered enough to rejoin the fight, tried to make his way towards where the Captain fought, but half-blinded with blood, did not see TheToast where he lay on the ground. As he passed, TheToast pulled him down, and set upon him with his sword, hacking the defenceless Snarfs to bloody pieces.
However, it seemed this was not enough to overcome the Captain, who had beaten Deconduo to the ground, where he held him at sword point, while he aimed his drawn pistol towards TheToast.
Captain Wiggles heaved with exertion, blood trickling down his arm from where he had been wounded in the shoulder, "Don't either of you dare move, or I'll kill ye' both right now. You thought you could outsmart me, but I'm an old dog, and I've dealt with worse before. Now I'm going to make you pay for what you've done, and I'll have fun doing it too. Mattchew! Bring some rope and secure these bastards, this is over!"
However, instead of hearing the sounds of Mattchew carrying out his order, Captain Wiggles instead felt the end of a pistol press into the back of his head. He froze in place. There must have been another mutineer who he had missed, someone who had waited until the battle was over to seize upon this oppurtunity. Wiggles was unsure of what had happened to Mattchew, but hoped he was still alive to turn the tables back in their favour.
Captain Wiggles' hopes were dashed, though, when the man behind him began to laugh, the cool chuckle of Mattchew ringing clear and steady in the open air. He was betrayed!
"Why?", was all Captain Wiggles could utter.
"Because," Mattchew said, "I know how much gold you've really got tucked away on this ship, and I know how much you've been holding back from your crew. I've decided it was more than a little unfair of you to act that way, so I enlisted the help of these two", motioning towards Deconduo and TheToast, "to take over this ship and get rid of you. It was a little bloodier than I imagined, but it looks like we've done it. You made it too easy, with how trusting you were, and you should know above all, you never trust a pirate." Finishing, Mattchew laughed once more, and pulled the trigger.
Snarfs the Medic was killed in mortal combat! Bluelightz the Townie was killed in mortal combat! Captain Wiggles was betrayed!
MAFIA VICTORY!
+ Show Spoiler [Role List] +Player Name Role TheToast Goon Sandroba Goon deconduo Mafia Medic Palmar Watcher Snarfs Medic Paperscraps Vig Probulous SK Jackal58 Vanilla Townie Bluelightz Vanilla Townie rgTheSchworz Vanilla Townie Misder Vanilla Townie Pandain Vanilla Townie adam4167 Vanilla Townie A Killer Cuppa Tea Vanilla Townie + Show Spoiler [Action List] +Night 1: Sandroba shoots rgTheSchworz Deconduo successfully protects Sandroba Palmar watched Probulous Snarfs protected Palmar Probulous shoots Sandroba
Night 2: TheToast shoots Palmar Deconduo protected TheToast Palmar watched Probulous Snarfs successfully protected Palmar Paperscraps shoots Jackal58 Probulous shoots Palmar
Night 3: TheToast shoots Pandain Deconduo protected TheToast Snarfs protected Probulous Probulous shoots Paperscraps
Night 4: TheToast shoots A Killer Cuppa Tea Deconduo protected TheToast Snarfs protected Bluelightz
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And I was right about snarfs too? Nice
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NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
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Wiggles why did this game go on for so long? Surely town could not win once AKCT didn't vote. It would only be fair for him to be modkilled at this stage of the game putting town at 2-2 with no vig overnight.
Anyway, I have a bigger post coming up.
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Before we discuss anything else, I just want to say right now that I'm sorry if anyone took offense at my posting Night 3. The insults were not meant to be taken personally, it was part of an in game strategy; I was attempting to create some back and forth in the hopes that it might lead to some insight on who had what roles. Apparently I went a bit too far, and this was taken personally. Please know that it was offered in the spirit of the game. There's a reason I only went after Bluelightz and Snarfs, I was hoping one of you would slip. Unfortunatly this did not work as intended.
Anyways, GG.
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Finally, something good happened in this long and terrible day. Well played guys, its always nice to have a game that goes right down to the wire. Now I can get some fucking sleep
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Ahaha I debated all day about which one you would shoot >.<
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GG
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On March 13 2012 12:30 deconduo wrote:Finally, something good happened in this long and terrible day. Well played guys, its always nice to have a game that goes right down to the wire. Now I can get some fucking sleep
Well played me pirate maties!
I too really need to get going, be back later I have a ton to do. Be back later for more post game.
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You're an asshole.
I don't care if that is strategy, it is belittling and petty and doesn't belong in any game I wish to play in.
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No hard feelings Toast, I probably took it a bit more personally than I should have but I had just gotten off 4 hours of work on my birthday on a Sunday so I was in a bad mood
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Special thanks to the hosts, Mr.Wiggles and Mattchew!
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On March 13 2012 12:32 Snarfs wrote:No hard feelings Toast, I probably took it a bit more personally than I should have but I had just gotten off 4 hours of work on my birthday on a Sunday so I was in a bad mood
Yeah sorry, it's hard to tell sometimes where the line is and I evidently took it too far. You can check the Mafia QT, it was part of a strategy I was working on. Just poorly implemented. Glad to hear were good.
On March 13 2012 12:31 Probulous wrote: You're an asshole.
I don't care if that is strategy, it is belittling and petty and doesn't belong in any game I wish to play in.
I'm not the only one who got warned this game. I'll just leave it at that.
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On March 12 2012 20:27 Mattchew wrote: The Irony in this post is unbelievable, but that will be explained at a later date
Yeah, not sure why players immediately didn't realize the game was over with this post.
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I got warned for absent mindedly poking at you out of the game, you got warned for shitting on players. So no they are not the same. It give me the shits when players degrade others but hey it is all part of your stategy, whatever man.
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Time to point out a nice little mod error!
Jackal was listed as "shot on night 2" for the better part of a few days as opposed to the traditional "killed on night 2" while Paperscraps claimed that his vig role came with a high-calibre rifle...
But that wasn't why my mind changed so radically on Paper. I saved Palmar night 2 and knew there were two KP on him. The vig claim was the only thing that made sense. I tried to make it as obvious that I was defending Paper as I dared without giving myself away but clearly I didn't do a good enough job .
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My Play All I wanted was a vanilla role but instead I got Serial Killer. This role is hard, like really hard. Given that I had a veteran life I would play the game as if I am town. I wanted to be the most townie town there ever was so that mafia would not shoot me and would have trouble getting me lynched. The downside to this was it made me obvious to them in the end game. I think my choice of shots were alright.
Night Hits- The sandroba shot night 1 was on a scum so I am happy with that.
- I wanted to shoot Palmar night 2 because he was suspicious of me and I suspected that scum would shoot him given his outing of sandroba. I also thought the medic might be on him so they would need a doublestack. He was the one obvious town who could take me down and given the numbers I had to shoot him.
- I shot Paperscraps night 3 to put suspicion on those pushing him as a SK, especially Pandain. But then mafia shot him and the plan kind of fell apart. In hindsight I probably should have kept him and shot Bluelightz because he would probably have voted with me.
My biggest mistake was the Adam lynch but I was convinced he was scum. It also didn’t hurt that he was the only one pushing for me to die so his death ensured my survival (until Bluelightz came along). I survived to the final lynch which is the longest in any game I have played and had a real shot at winning so I give myself 7/10
Town MVP Palmar gets this award as he correctly identified sandroba day 1 and noted me as suspicious. If he lived longer Adam would probably have been able to push for my lynch. He also stated that he would see decon die but never confirmed that when I asked him.
Special shout outs to Snarfs for his first game. He was town to me from day one and the only ones who called him scum were mafia. I would gladly have you on my team.
Scum MVP Deconduo, looking back on this game you managed to lurk just enough to avoid suspicion. I had you labelled as town more from a numbers thing than anything you actually did which is perfect for scum. I was never going to lynch you over Toast so that makes you my scum MVP.
The Rest of You Lot
- Adam4167- We’ve had our chat and come to an agreement. I expected too much from you and it burnt me. My only advice would be that if you are going to post, post something that is relevant and clear.
- Misder – You trolled this game so there isn’t much to say. If you don’t want to play, don’t sign up.
- A Killer Cuppa Tea – Bad luck on the head bash. There’s not much else to say as you weren’t here in the early game. Day 1 sure but you disappeared after that.
- Pandain – You’re a crazy bastard and I wasn’t sure of your alignment until you flipped. In hindsight you were right about Toast and AKCT. Thanks for the game.
- Sandroba – You died, thanks for lurking
- RG – The only thing that was clear from your play was that you weren’t the SK or a Vig. Given you died night 1 that is a job well done
- Jackal – You hid, you died.
- Paperscraps – You were a hard read initially but once I got your claim figured out I was pretty sure you were town. I guess next time claim before the deadline
Bluelightz I had a whole long section on you and how you fucked up this game for me but in the end I want to ask you one question.
Do you want to improve?
I won't be playing a game that you are in. You clearly don't care about town winning and that means they generally lose when you are on their team.
Toast
Special shout out to Mattchew who was awesome as a cohost. Even with me whining about vote counts he muscled up and helped out.
Mr Wiggles thank you for the game, you were fair and even handed with my warning and I respect that.
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On March 10 2012 11:59 Snarfs wrote:And most importantly+ Show Spoiler +A very special thank you to Probulous Whether you’re town or scum, you still think I'm semi competent and helped me get my points through unblocked. Thanks man.
I thought this tidbit would be enough to convey that information when I flipped medic. Thoughts? Too cryptic?
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On March 13 2012 12:40 Snarfs wrote:Time to point out a nice little mod error! Jackal was listed as "shot on night 2" for the better part of a few days as opposed to the traditional "killed on night 2" while Paperscraps claimed that his vig role came with a high-calibre rifle... But that wasn't why my mind changed so radically on Paper. I saved Palmar night 2 and knew there were two KP on him. The vig claim was the only thing that made sense. I tried to make it as obvious that I was defending Paper as I dared without giving myself away but clearly I didn't do a good enough job .
I was pretty sure you were blue for most of the game. You played really really well for your first game, despite what others say. I would gladly have you on my team (scum or town). Glad to know I was right about the Palmar save. Thanks for playing and please sign up for another.
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Mr Wiggles, is there any reason for the game not ending with my lynch?
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Thanks Prob, I appreciate it a lot. I definitely had a lot of fun.
I know I learned a ton from start to finish and look forward to playing again.
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On March 13 2012 12:38 Probulous wrote: I got warned for absent mindedly poking at you out of the game, you got warned for shitting on players. So no they are not the same. It give me the shits when players degrade others but hey it is all part of your stategy, whatever man.
I've apologized, I've explained myself. There's literally nothing left I can do. It wasn't personal, Snarfs play was actually pretty decent and Bluelightz isn't a horrible human being. I clearly lost my sense of perspective when I made that post and that's all there really is to it. If anyone else would like to discuss this feel free to PM me, otherwise I won't be discussing it any further here.
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Oh, and my post game post will be coming tomorrow late afternoon (NA time), I've got a ton of stuff to do in the meantime.
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On March 13 2012 12:30 Probulous wrote: Wiggles why did this game go on for so long? Surely town could not win once AKCT didn't vote. It would only be fair for him to be modkilled at this stage of the game putting town at 2-2 with no vig overnight.
Anyway, I have a bigger post coming up. I decided to give A Killer Cuppa Tea another 24 hours to show up, and didn't like the idea of a close game being decided by a modkill, so I let the night play out. The funny think is, AKCT just PMed me 2 minutes ago.
On March 13 2012 12:40 Snarfs wrote:Time to point out a nice little mod error! Jackal was listed as "shot on night 2" for the better part of a few days as opposed to the traditional "killed on night 2" while Paperscraps claimed that his vig role came with a high-calibre rifle... But that wasn't why my mind changed so radically on Paper. I saved Palmar night 2 and knew there were two KP on him. The vig claim was the only thing that made sense. I tried to make it as obvious that I was defending Paper as I dared without giving myself away but clearly I didn't do a good enough job . Well, all role PMs were exactly the same as in the OP, i.e. there was no flavour. I'm not sure if he said that before or after the post where it said Jackal was shot. Most of the time I interchange shot and killed for night kills. It's a bad habit, but flavour had nothing to do with who performed what. The same thing, but Jackal had his throat slit in the Day post, and Paper claimed he was a vig not the sk, and then it says Jackal is shot, so all the flavour was inconsistent, because it had no real bearing on the game.
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United States5684 Posts
On March 13 2012 12:46 Probulous wrote: Mr Wiggles, is there any reason for the game not ending with my lynch?
if snarfs had protected AKCT town woulda remained at 3:2 and coulda lynched scum and won
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Decondou wp, and you too toast. I was sure you were scum(like 100%) but then you started super contributing so I was unsure.
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On March 13 2012 12:51 Mr. Wiggles wrote:I decided to give A Killer Cuppa Tea another 24 hours to show up, and didn't like the idea of a close game being decided by a modkill, so I let the night play out. The funny think is, AKCT just PMed me 2 minutes ago. You do realise that would have been incredibly unfair?
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On March 13 2012 12:51 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 12:46 Probulous wrote: Mr Wiggles, is there any reason for the game not ending with my lynch?
if snarfs had protected AKCT town woulda remained at 3:2 and coulda lynched scum and won
Decon and I had a backup plan. If AKCT was medic protected we were going to quickly post our votes on Snarf. If AKCT didn't show up we would have voted Snarfs first and we would have won.
Anyway, really leaving now, see you all tomorrow.
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On March 13 2012 12:55 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 12:51 Mr. Wiggles wrote:I decided to give A Killer Cuppa Tea another 24 hours to show up, and didn't like the idea of a close game being decided by a modkill, so I let the night play out. The funny think is, AKCT just PMed me 2 minutes ago. You do realise that would have been incredibly unfair? How so?
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On March 13 2012 12:51 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Well, all role PMs were exactly the same as in the OP, i.e. there was no flavour. I'm not sure if he said that before or after the post where it said Jackal was shot. Most of the time I interchange shot and killed for night kills. It's a bad habit, but flavour had nothing to do with who performed what. The same thing, but Jackal had his throat slit in the Day post, and Paper claimed he was a vig not the sk, and then it says Jackal is shot, so all the flavour was inconsistent, because it had no real bearing on the game. Ah okay, I thought maybe it was in his flavour. Maybe he saw that on the front page and made that claim, who knows.
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United States5684 Posts
If you want my thoughts on your play or anyone else's PM me
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On March 13 2012 12:55 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 12:55 Probulous wrote:On March 13 2012 12:51 Mr. Wiggles wrote:I decided to give A Killer Cuppa Tea another 24 hours to show up, and didn't like the idea of a close game being decided by a modkill, so I let the night play out. The funny think is, AKCT just PMed me 2 minutes ago. You do realise that would have been incredibly unfair? How so? Because my vote was decided by his absence yet he gets to live. There were three people on me and if he was around I might have been able to convince him to go with Bluelightz. If I could get Snarfs as well then Bluelightz would have died. This is of course all circumstantial because it didn't happen but his absence really limited what I could do to prevent my lynch. For him to escape censure by showing up after three days of no posting in my opinion would be unfair.
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FREEAGLELAND26780 Posts
On March 13 2012 12:14 Bluelightz wrote: NO FLAMEWHEEL IS BEST PONY
I SLAY DRAGONS
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On March 13 2012 13:44 flamewheel wrote:BEST PONY I SLAY DRAGONS Proof:
From the Dark Times Before Mafia on the Sidebar
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On March 13 2012 13:47 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 13:44 flamewheel wrote:On March 13 2012 12:14 Bluelightz wrote: NO FLAMEWHEEL IS BEST PONY I SLAY DRAGONS Proof: From the Dark Times Before Mafia on the Sidebar
Those were indeed dark times, many suffered.
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Probulous if you can't correctly identify bluelightz's alignment based on what he posts, even in this game, you are the one who needs to improve. He also clearly does care
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On March 13 2012 14:55 syllogism wrote: Probulous if you can't correctly identify bluelightz's alignment based on what he posts, even in this game, you are the one who needs to improve. He also clearly does care
I get really frustrated playing with him because I can never tell what alignment is, I made it my mission this game to make him post stuff and it failed. He got me lynched because he voted for me based on a hunch and then abandoned the thread. I am not sure what else to do. I gave very specific advice on how to make himself useful and he intentionally ignored it, and he is town? I just don't know how to improve on this.
It isn't only him. AKCT was similar as was Misder. They lurk hardcore and then post stuff that is either really scummy or neutral. How do you get a town read on people who can't be bothered to participate? I'm serious in that any advice on this front would be welcome. I am genuinely frustrated and it ruined the game for me.
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Read his filter in his only scum game and compare? Also, just look for signs of him posting without fear and showing emotions that are hard to fake. Even one liners can make someone look town, but I don't really want to be specific and it's not easy to explain anyway
You are very good so it should be easy to adjust
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Thanks Syllo, you're too kind. 0:4 is not good
I'm thinking of completely changing how I play. I think I post too much and dominate the thread making it easy for others to hide. My cases are getting shorter which is good, I just need to tone down the number of posts. I really need a way to deal with lurkers though, I mean end game here there were two town lurkers and a medic, how do you win a game like that?
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I wouldn't worry about that too much as you are going to always be dead by that point. I'm pretty sure you can soon correctly identify most lurkers as town and if you can't, they are probably mafia
I wouldn't change anything about your play, certainly posting less doesn't help
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On March 13 2012 15:24 Probulous wrote:Thanks Syllo, you're too kind. 0:4 is not good I'm thinking of completely changing how I play. I think I post too much and dominate the thread making it easy for others to hide. My cases are getting shorter which is good, I just need to tone down the number of posts. I really need a way to deal with lurkers though, I mean end game here there were two town lurkers and a medic, how do you win a game like that?
Don't worry about the 0:4, you've seriously had some terrible luck. Your first game town was terribly inactive, your second game you somehow got a competent town against you (in a newbie mini no less), etc. etc. I know what you mean about toning down the number of posts, but there are merits with both ways. If you look at TL Mafia L, compare BloddyC0bbler's play with Protactinium's. BC was in everyone's face, talking a lot, whereas protact posted less but very meaty. Both worked well.
TheToast, you really should shape up. If you pull this nonsense on me when I am town, I will destroy you.
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Kill em all, let god sort em out.
In all seriousness the problem I notice nowadays is not enough pressure is put on lurkers. What motivation do they have to post if the only form of pressure they get is someone saying "Im going to pressure vote X" which carries no weight for obvious reasons.
In all honesty I believe that lynching someone who obviously isnt going to put time into the game is a very good day1 lynch. You can see that it can become incredibly game changing to let them coast throughout the entire game. Mafia sure as hell won't kill them, leaving you the same place you were in regards to discovering their alignment. My opinion is that unless you have a STELLAR day1 lynch target, you are going to probally have better odds of improving the game in the long run if you just take care of the lurkers early. Vig shots can help with this as well.
Take care of one early, the rest will hopefully realize what needs to be done to stay alive.
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Probulous, your a great player thats what I can say , your losses were very close I can say aswell . Even me with a 1:4(?) record I still feel nice.
FUN > ALL
sidenote
+ Show Spoiler +
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also probulous since you were still complaining then
UMADBRO?
sidenote again + Show Spoiler + LETS MAKE A FW FANCLUB!!!
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Can I has mafia qt or somone posted it already?
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Iceland22590 Posts
I told you to lynch deconduo, why didn't you listen?
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Sowwy Master Palmar will follow you next time your town and im in a game with you
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On March 13 2012 18:47 Palmar wrote: I told you to lynch deconduo, why didn't you listen?
Because when I asked if you sure you never responded. I could only assume you had changed your mind.
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Prob, what went through you when you got SK :3
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Iceland22590 Posts
On March 13 2012 20:05 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 18:47 Palmar wrote: I told you to lynch deconduo, why didn't you listen?
Because when I asked if you sure you never responded. I could only assume you had changed your mind.
I love how I just couldn't figure out what was wrong with your play. I said it like 2-3 times.
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So, I'd like to thank all the players for playing, Mattchew for Co-hosting, and Foolishness and Incognito for balance and set-up consultation. If you want, here's some fun polls that might affect how I run future games: + Show Spoiler +Poll: Did you have fun?Yes (2) 67% Somewhat (1) 33% No (0) 0% 3 total votes Your vote: Did you have fun? (Vote): Yes (Vote): Somewhat (Vote): No
Poll: Did you like the setup?Yes (3) 100% Somewhat (0) 0% No (0) 0% 3 total votes Your vote: Did you like the setup? (Vote): Yes (Vote): Somewhat (Vote): No
Poll: Did you think the setup was balanced?Yes (3) 100% Somewhat (0) 0% No (0) 0% 3 total votes Your vote: Did you think the setup was balanced? (Vote): Yes (Vote): Somewhat (Vote): No
Poll: Did you read the day/night posts?Yes (2) 100% No (0) 0% 2 total votes Your vote: Did you read the day/night posts? (Vote): Yes (Vote): No
+ Show Spoiler [If Yes] +Poll: Did you like the flavour of the day/night posts?Yes (2) 100% Somewhat (0) 0% No (0) 0% 2 total votes Your vote: Did you like the flavour of the day/night posts? (Vote): Yes (Vote): Somewhat (Vote): No
I might add more stuff after, if I think of it.
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On March 13 2012 20:28 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 20:05 Probulous wrote:On March 13 2012 18:47 Palmar wrote: I told you to lynch deconduo, why didn't you listen?
Because when I asked if you sure you never responded. I could only assume you had changed your mind. I love how I just couldn't figure out what was wrong with your play. I said it like 2-3 times. That was why I shot you :p I knew you would get it soon and then i would be lynched
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United States5684 Posts
OH btw... palmar was double stacked so that was super lucky for scum and prob otherwise it woulda probably been gg
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On March 14 2012 05:44 Mattchew wrote: OH btw... palmar was double stacked so that was super lucky for scum and prob otherwise it woulda probably been gg
That was a calculated guess. I figured that the medic would probably be on Palmar but there was no way I could let him live. Surviving one day with him being suspicious of me was lucky enough. Besides after he outed sandroba I figured that scum would go after him, especially if they had a vig. Yes it was a gamble but if he was protected I could always blame it on scum.
This role was really weird because I had to balance out trying to kill scum and removing powerful townies. Night 1 I was sure of sandroba but so was the mafia medic but at least it confirmed him to me. Night 2 Palmar had to go. Night 3 was a tough one, in hindsight I should have shot Bluelightz but I wanted to push a Pandain lynch on the final day. There seemed enough suspicion around him to do it. I was certain that Paperscraps was a Vig so shooting him would make those that pushed his lynch look worse than they already did.
I figured going into the final lynch with 3:2:1 would give me a shot at lynching scum for a 3:1:1 night. I could then shoot town and hope that mafia shot town for a win. With AKCT missing if he was modkilled it made my job even easier as it would be 2:2:1 so all I had to do was shoot the scum medic to win. The whole thing was a balancing act but it almost came off.
If Bluelightz had switched to Toast it would have been 2:1:1 with the final scum outed. If decon shot me or didn't shoot town he would have died leaving a final day of Bluelightz, me and snarfs. I am certain I could have pushed snarfs to vote for Bluelightz and win the game. If he shot one of the townies, I would straight up win.
I was so close, so close, but just not close enough. Oh well.
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Alright, a quick recapp:
Day1 Day 1 was weird. Sandro's posting was strange and out of place from the start, and Palmar being Palmar picked up on that quickly enough. I was a bit impressed with how quickly Pandain picked up on my scummy-ness, I was actually actively trying to mirror my early game posting in NMM1, so I'm not sure if Pandain somehow picked up on something or just got lucky. Either way, I realized pretty quickly after Pandain's first post against me that he had made a critical mistake in calling me out so early; fact was, even though he was right, he had basically no evidence against me. I figured I could hit back with that and if I did so agressively and long enough I could make his argument look rediculous.
Meanwhile Sandro was screwing us over. And I was seriously starting to get pissed off. He was pretty much putting in zero effort and every one of his posts screamed scum. He later admitted (day2) in the Mafia QT that he had some IRL stuff and had requested a replacement. But he really should have done so much sooner. I realized if scum were to have any chance to win the game we needed to distance ourselves from sandro, thus the whole sandro is SK thing. I don't know why he voted me for a lynch, but it actually helped me out in the end.
I have no idea how Misder got lynched over sandro, there was only one scum on Misder. He also looked completely like the typical hapless townie that goes down day1. I would have posted a case against Pandain sooner, but did actually have IRL internet problems. I was still under the impression that sandro might actually start trying this game.
Night 1 RG was an easy kill to decide. I figured there was probably only a good 50/50 chance that he was blue, his claim could be fake or he could've been claiming blue thinking we would assume it was fake. Either way, he was pretty much confirmed town at that point and the added chance of killing blue made him the most logical target.
Day2 My inactivity again, was really due to a Civ V game that consumed my weekend. Either way, Probulous was on the right track. I was really getting concerned, when Mafia has an underperforming player they have to defend, that player flipping can pretty much lead to the end of the game. I realized if Sandro flipped I was going to look scummy as hell for avoiding his vote day 1 (especially after arguing he could be the SK). I also realized if I suddendly decided to vote Sandro, I was going to invalidate the ENTIRE argument I used to defend myself against Probulous, that scum should be lynched before SK. I knew Sandro had to die but there was no way for me to get on the right side of the lynch without revealing my alignment.
Luckily enough, Pandain provided my way out of this. When I saw his akward defense of sandro I realized that was my one chance out. I had an excuse to call sandro scum (since I was already arguing for Pandain's scumminess), an excuse to be on the right side of the lynch, link Pandain with someone who was about to flip scum, and end up coming out looking really townish.
IMO Pandain screwed up here big time by giving me this opening. And all of you probably should have suspected something when I changed my opinion on someone like *right* after it became clear that they were getting lynched. Either way, scum got rid of a really weak player and both deco and I came out looking town. And there were three people on the wrong side of the lynch who now suddenly were looking really suspicious. Pretty much was gg right here.
Night 2 I went back and forth WIFOMing away over who the night 2 kill should be. I was thinking Snarfs or Probulous at first, as they were the most confirmed townies and their deaths could put pressure on Paperscraps/Adam. Decon left the decision up to me and I eventually decided on Palmar. At the time I didn't suspect a medic was on him as there had been some suspicion against him by town (I was thinking for sure medic would be on Probulous). Palmar was my choice simply because I thought it was our best chance to kill him. Palmar is one of the best scum hunters on TL, and at the time he really hadn't laid out any of his reads or suspicions other than Sandro. I saw it as an opportunity to kill him without casting any suspicion back on Decon and I, probably the only one we would get. The double stack Probulous kill was just good luck. Palmar flipping watcher was just added benefit.
Day 3 Ahh Paperscraps shot on Jackal. Jackal had been on his radar all game long, and I'm guessing the fact that Jackal was on the wrong side of the lynch just confirmed it in his mind. Decon and I were also on his list, so I guess we got a bit lucky here (of course if he shot me I was safe due to medic). But then who expect scum to actively try to get one of their members lynched? Either way, the ensuing FOS-ing of Paper was a little crazy. If you actually looked at his filter up to that point, he was actually really consistant and really logical. Should have been #2 or #3 confirmed town. Either way the pressure on him I guess forced him to change his scum-list and from there on Decon and I were pretty much set from there on.
Adam lynch was ezpz, thanks Probulous for that one. Again more fallout of the Sandro lynch.
Night 3 As I said at this point Decon and I were pretty much set. I did want to kill Probulous but it seemed likely that a medic could be on him. Snarfs and Probulous were just about the only confirmed town left. Paper, bluelightz, and Pandain were all getting FOS-ed so really this hit wasn't that important. It really came down to Paper and Pandain, both had previously been on the right track (both had actually called out 2/3s of the scum team previously) and were therefore the most dangerous. Paper was a vig who used his shot, and so was now a vanilla townie essentially. So we went Pandain in the hopes he might flip blue.
Day 4
Paper's death really made it pretty obvious we were going to win if we could find the SK. Either way, Bluelightz was unintentionally running interferrence for us so we knew we were pretty safe. Probulous, This exchange is what outed you as SK to me. Three replies in a row to one post, each more frantic than the last. Bluelightz finally had a good read, and when I saw that vote I realized we had an awesome chance. We kill the SK (and most confirmed town ironically) and AKCT get's modkilled it was gg.
As far as ACKT's absence making this unfair, that's completely rediculous. Town was about to lynch Bluelightz, and we knew who the SK was, Probulous you would've died in the night. Unless you were planning on hitting Decon, you were still going to lose. Frankly, Wiggle's decision not to modkill AKCT actually made things pretty even.
Night 4 Lots of WIFOM-ing. Decon was sure snarfs was vet, after reading through his posts I pegged him as medic. There were several times when he speculated as to the existance of a vet (his read on RG was vet, there was one other somewhere too). It seemed highly unlikely to me that someone would setup something that subtly that far back in the game, especially for a new player. Eventually I realized that if Snarfs was medic, he would almost certainly be on Bluelightz and thus the AKCT kill was decided.
It was a bit WIFOM-y still, but I'm guessing Snarfs was thrown off when I correctly pegged him as the medic. Either way, GG.
-edit: sp
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On March 12 2012 13:47 TheToast wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 12:46 Snarfs wrote: I don't know. Do you expect me to pretend to be one of the two subtly so that it seems like I'm trying to convince you that I am that role, or do you expect me to expect you to expect that and so pretend to not be?
Just let me know and I'll oblige. This seems antagonistic. Maybe you want us to shoot you? As vet that would be your best bet. Of course even if you were a medic and we shoot one of the others, we have a 50-50 chance of winning. If your vet it's a 100% chance of winning. Do you have any thoughts on that snarfies? Oh and Bluelightz, I'm curious, have you ever won a game as town? Like seriously, I think there's such a thing as the Bluelightz curse. Any town unlucky enough to get Bluelightz on their side loses the game. What do you think? Nice ring to it right? The curse of the Bluelightz that sounds good too. Seriously, how fail are you? I don't expect you to respond since the only things you post about are when you are going to school or work like this is flippin' twitter. Can't forget the occasional completely random person that you call out as scum. It's true that you will eventually land on scum, only after lynching the entire town. Way to go buddy..Actually the whole lot of you are pretty fail. Didn't you all wonder why you are the ones left alive? Snarfs I don't think you had a single good read this whole game. Except for Sandro, but he pretty much put in zero effort this game; that's why we had him killed. And lol how easily all of you bought that "Calling it now Sandro and Pandain scum team" shenanigans. How obvious was that lol? There's a reason why we lynched Palmar when we did and left the rest of you alive, he was the only one making any sense. Snarfies lol at your support of Adam. There was not one good shred of evidence against him. And you led Probulous lead your right into that. HA! And LOL at the Paper thing. He was like the most confirmed town this whole game, and you guys were all FOSing him.
I WILL DESTROY YOU FOR THIS WHENEVER I GET THE CHANCE.
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On March 14 2012 23:45 TheToast wrote: As far as ACKT's absence making this unfair, that's completely rediculous. Town was about to lynch Bluelightz, and we knew who the SK was, Probulous you would've died in the night. Unless you were planning on hitting Decon, you were still going to lose. Frankly, Wiggle's decision not to modkill AKCT actually made things pretty even.
The point being that if the same thing had gone down with AKCT being around I could possibly have swung the vote. You guy had outed yourselves, I never got the chance to even try because he didn't vote. Your responsibility in these games is to vote and there should be accountability for them. My options were essentially whittled down to convincing an absent bluelightz to switch which is something I might not have had to do if AKCT was around. Letting him off scott free would be unfair in my opinion. I would not have died that night, you forget I was a veteran as well. You guys had outed yourselves so I knew that decon had to be the medic because you were just so out there compared to him. Now you can say you wouldn't have done this if he wasn't here but then I would not have been lynched.
As for Bluelightz destroying you, I'd like to see it. It would change a lot of things in my mind.
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On March 15 2012 07:06 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2012 23:45 TheToast wrote: As far as ACKT's absence making this unfair, that's completely rediculous. Town was about to lynch Bluelightz, and we knew who the SK was, Probulous you would've died in the night. Unless you were planning on hitting Decon, you were still going to lose. Frankly, Wiggle's decision not to modkill AKCT actually made things pretty even. As for Bluelightz destroying you, I'd like to see it. It would change a lot of things in my mind.
give bluelightz a gun
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On March 15 2012 07:06 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2012 23:45 TheToast wrote: As far as ACKT's absence making this unfair, that's completely rediculous. Town was about to lynch Bluelightz, and we knew who the SK was, Probulous you would've died in the night. Unless you were planning on hitting Decon, you were still going to lose. Frankly, Wiggle's decision not to modkill AKCT actually made things pretty even. The point being that if the same thing had gone down with AKCT being around I could possibly have swung the vote. You guy had outed yourselves, I never got the chance to even try because he didn't vote. Your responsibility in these games is to vote and there should be accountability for them. My options were essentially whittled down to convincing an absent bluelightz to switch which is something I might not have had to do if AKCT was around. Letting him off scott free would be unfair in my opinion. I would not have died that night, you forget I was a veteran as well. You guys had outed yourselves so I knew that decon had to be the medic because you were just so out there compared to him. Now you can say you wouldn't have done this if he wasn't here but then I would not have been lynched. As for Bluelightz destroying you, I'd like to see it. It would change a lot of things in my mind.
There's no guarantee AKCT would've voted for Bluelightz. And we outed ourselves with three minutes to go on Day 4, there was not much chance for town to respond. We were counting on that. Whether AKCT could have changed the outcome of the game is impossible to say. If you still have a problem with it, you should take it up with Flamewheel or GMarshal. Either way Wiggles was put in a difficult position and I think he made the right choice not to mod kill him.
Honestly Probulous, I think you're being a bit of a sore loser. Scum team had a teammate that put in zero effort this game. His posts scream scum, he made no attempt to defend himself, and we were left with the prospect of losing this game because of it. He may not have gone completely inactive but it was close; he had like 5 total posts in the Mafia QT. Bottom line is people going inactive and getting modkilled are part of this game, you need to plan for it and be able to react to it in turn.
You're right, I did forget that you had veteran status and maybe that would have helped. But the reality is you didn't have a single good read on scum the whole game. (sandro doesn't really count, he wasn't trying and we pushed his lynch) You were also about to kill another townie and the only chance you had to win was if you shot decon. From what you were posting it didn't seem terribly likely to me that would happen. It's not like you played the game of your life and had it snatched away from you in some crazy upset. You had a major slip up that clearly outed yourself and allowed us to out maneuver you, that's what I see as the core of this game.
And as for the Bluelightz thing.... no comment.
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Btw I don't think you were ever really close to lynching me. I just didn't defend myself because I don't need to(I will if pressured.)
I don't know if I've ever played a game where I got lynched(unless rolechecked), and I've played like 10.
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On March 15 2012 09:47 Pandain wrote: Btw I don't think you were ever really close to lynching me. I just didn't defend myself because I don't need to(I will if pressured.)
I don't know if I've ever played a game where I got lynched(unless rolechecked), and I've played like 10.
I think we could have, go back and read day 2 night 2, I think we managed to get some good suspicion going on you. Whether you could've defended yourself is another question, but your posting seemed strange in the situation. But part of the reason we killed you night 3 was because we knew you were potentially dangerous. And the buddying with decon made it seem like you had an idea of his alignment.
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On March 15 2012 09:43 TheToast wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 07:06 Probulous wrote:On March 14 2012 23:45 TheToast wrote: As far as ACKT's absence making this unfair, that's completely rediculous. Town was about to lynch Bluelightz, and we knew who the SK was, Probulous you would've died in the night. Unless you were planning on hitting Decon, you were still going to lose. Frankly, Wiggle's decision not to modkill AKCT actually made things pretty even. The point being that if the same thing had gone down with AKCT being around I could possibly have swung the vote. You guy had outed yourselves, I never got the chance to even try because he didn't vote. Your responsibility in these games is to vote and there should be accountability for them. My options were essentially whittled down to convincing an absent bluelightz to switch which is something I might not have had to do if AKCT was around. Letting him off scott free would be unfair in my opinion. I would not have died that night, you forget I was a veteran as well. You guys had outed yourselves so I knew that decon had to be the medic because you were just so out there compared to him. Now you can say you wouldn't have done this if he wasn't here but then I would not have been lynched. As for Bluelightz destroying you, I'd like to see it. It would change a lot of things in my mind. There's no guarantee AKCT would've voted for Bluelightz. And we outed ourselves with three minutes to go on Day 4, there was not much chance for town to respond. We were counting on that. Whether AKCT could have changed the outcome of the game is impossible to say. If you still have a problem with it, you should take it up with Flamewheel or GMarshal. Either way Wiggles was put in a difficult position and I think he made the right choice not to mod kill him.
I fully agree that it put Wiggles in a difficult position I clearly don't have an issue because he didn't turn up. The point is you have these rules to avoid exactly these things. What is the point if you don't follow them.
Honestly Probulous, I think you're being a bit of a sore loser. Scum team had a teammate that put in zero effort this game. His posts scream scum, he made no attempt to defend himself, and we were left with the prospect of losing this game because of it. He may not have gone completely inactive but it was close; he had like 5 total posts in the Mafia QT. Bottom line is people going inactive and getting modkilled are part of this game, you need to plan for it and be able to react to it in turn.
I full admit that I should have realised you guys could switch the vote, that doesn't mean that it is alright for people to just not bother. The difference with being scum is you don't need a majority to make decisions. You can play with one man down because town doesn't know who you are. Hell bussing your dodgy guy is a valid play. It doesn't work the same way for town because I cannot tell whether the "dodgy" guy is actually dodgy or not. The point is people who don't bother look exactly like scum so it effectively gives you more numbers.
You're right, I did forget that you had veteran status and maybe that would have helped. But the reality is you didn't have a single good read on scum the whole game. (sandro doesn't really count, he wasn't trying and we pushed his lynch) You were also about to kill another townie and the only chance you had to win was if you shot decon. From what you were posting it didn't seem terribly likely to me that would happen. It's not like you played the game of your life and had it snatched away from you in some crazy upset. You had a major slip up that clearly outed yourself and allowed us to out maneuver you, that's what I see as the core of this game.
I shot sandro night 1. So no, sandro does count. If you guys had not switched I would probably have shot you. So yeah you would have won the following night. I believe I played well this game. My focus was on keeping the balance between scum and powerful townies. I shot scum night 1 and correctly guessed your shot night 2. I got distracted by sandroba's lynch and stopped pushing you which was a major mistake. Adam's case against me and his reasoning for voting for sandroba occupied me day 3, another mistake but one I don't feel bad about. He looked scummy, he doesn't normally play like that, I'm ok with that. That slip-up was a simple mistake and if it is what confirmed me then you were lucky. I was really frustrated with you because you were putting credence in an idea that made no sense to me. I tried to make sure all my reasoning didn't require me being an SK. I just happened to discount the possibility of a mafia vig because it made no sense.
Like I said earlier, not great but overall I am happy with my play.
Question for you, who did you think the SK was before that? I was sure you guys knew who I was from really early game. I was just banking on you WIFOMing a medic save and me having an extra life.
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On March 15 2012 10:03 Probulous wrote:
Question for you, who did you think the SK was before that? I was sure you guys knew who I was from really early game. I was just banking on you WIFOMing a medic save and me having an extra life.
We actually bounced around between a few people. Decon had you pegged as a possible SK early on, but our attention shifted to Paper briefly then AKCT.
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United States22154 Posts
I took the liberty of updating the OP with links to all night/day posts for ease of skimming. This was not a bad game to read, overall interesting play.
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