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On February 27 2012 02:32 ghost_403 wrote:
@alderan I really don't see any time where it would be advantageous to the town to not lynch. The town should first be lynching scum. If we can't find scum, we should instead lynch people who are not useful to the town. Lurkers fit the second criteria perfectly. By lurking, you are providing cover for the scum to hide, which is in every case bad for the town.
@fourface That's not how you apply pressure on someone to post. This is how you apply pressure on someone to post.
##vote JekyllAndHyde
To Ghost and fourface, what is your reasoning for pressuring JekyllAndHyde specifically? There's plenty of other non-posters, or people posting nothing but 1-2 sentence fluff posts. Any specific reason for Jekyll?
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hydra=two people playing on a single account.
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Hydras are fairly common if players can't committ to being able to play the game full-time. There's actually two in this game, JekyllAndHyde and k2HD. As long as they sign the post with which one of them is doing the posting and we can hold them accountable, it's not really a big deal.
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On February 27 2012 05:26 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 04:36 Steveling wrote:
Well not much to be said.
Another typical newbie day one, xDDD. Would you like me to make another poll XD any questions anyone?
Haha, yeah, a poll would be great, why don't we get started on that right away  (not really....)
The problem is no one really seems to want to talk, and asking general questions about the game, lynching lurkers, early deadlines, etc can only get us so far. I'm not sure how best to proceed right now to get everyone talking.
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On February 27 2012 05:32 FourFace wrote:
@Janaan why JekyllAndHyde and not some other lurker? I don't know, lynch me
Not an attack, I was just wondering if there was a certain reason why you picked him. If not, fine.
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On February 27 2012 05:34 NightFury wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Okay!
I propose that we resolve the most pressing issues today and worry about the less vital ones for night 1 if needed. It seems like the lynch or no-lynch day 1 is the most pressing issue at hand. I'm beginning to think that a time based voting system won't be critical on day 1 if we can all agree to a specific day 1 strategy. This way we can focus on the task at hand and get good discussion and worry about the finer details of other issues during the night so we can all be ready for day 2.
It appears, in general, that the consensus for lynching a lurker for day 1 is acceptable. Looking at risk/reward - lynching a mafia on day 1 has great rewards whereas lynching a lurker townie isn't the biggest loss (still a loss nonetheless). Therefore, I'm still on board for no no-lynch day 1 and going after a lurker.
I propose we set a soft deadline today for confirming a lurker target. The game has been going for less than 24 hours and I know people's weekends can be a bit random when it comes to availability. I think, at most, we should give a full in-game 24 hours to at least post a) anything and b) some form of contribution. Once again, great for getting discussion rolling and looking at how people interact with each other. In the event everyone is present and participating, we can have a full discussion on how we handle day 1 as well.
While this can be discussed later on if needed, I am still a fan of one or two stage soft deadline voting. I know there are caveats, but I personally think everyone should have some responsibility in the game. It'll keep players active which is always great. Janaan, I know you mentioned that a second deadline may cause chaos is there is a bandwagon for not following the system. But if we can get everyone to agree to the system, it will be everyone's responsibility to follow it and they will be responsible for their own actions should they break it. If people are going to be busy (which is completely valid), they should at least inform everyone in advance. I would prefer people communicating with everyone rather than just falling off the face of the planet (although shit does happen which can be unfortunate).
Thoughts/Opinions?
I think I've already made my position clear on this. I also think that setting any kind of deadline 24 hours before the actual vote deadline is too soon. As already stated, I'm fine with somewhere around 8-12 hours before, but any earlier, any vote we end up agreeing on, especially if it's a lurker lynch, is bound to change.
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Good obvervations on fourface from DYH and Gumshoe, I look forward to seeing what he has to say for himself.
To Phagga: The town should only be lynching scum. Lynching town lurkers hurts us more than it helps. You of all people in this game should know this after the werewolves game (remember mderg and rgTheSchworz?). But then again, perhaps you're scum in this game as well?
Sure, in a perfect world we'd lynch scum the first 4 days, win the game, and go home. Sometimes, though, you can't be 100% sure someone is scum. We can't just no lynch until we KNOW someone's mafia, sometimes we have to take calculated risks. Lynching lurkers, if there's no better target, is one of those risks.
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EBWOP, Phagga, judging from your latest post, I just misunderstood the post I quoted. Feel free to disregard what I said completely.
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So FourFace, pretty much all I got out of that post was that you don't like Mafia guides, and that you're readily admitting that you lied when you told me there wasn't a reason why you voted for JekyllAndHyde. That's not really a very good start to defending yourself in my opinion.
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Gumshoe, yeah, I know......I was actually thinking that, funnily enough.
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On February 27 2012 10:50 JekyllAndHyde wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 07:49 Janaan wrote:
So FourFace, pretty much all I got out of that post was that you don't like Mafia guides, and that you're readily admitting that you lied when you told me there wasn't a reason why you voted for JekyllAndHyde. That's not really a very good start to defending yourself in my opinion. You say that DYH and gumshoe made "good observations", that you were waiting for FF to defend himself, and now you say that wasn't a very good start to defending himself. ....so? What do you think about it? Did that convince you he was scum or not?
At the moment, I'm leaning toward noob townie, much like my read on Gumshoe last game, but I'll probably keep a close watch on his posts. I was really hoping that FourFace would post again, maybe try to clarify his post at least, but he's still nowhere to be found.
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One thing that stands out most to me about Ghost's posting is this gem right here
Another way to look at that is if you are still left during day 3 after 2 mislynches. There are 6 townies and 4 scum. The scum are either (1) forced to work together to stay alive, and are pretty easy to spot or (2) are going to sacrifice one of their own. Unless something goes horribly, horribly wrong, the worst case scenario for day 4 is 5 townies to 3 scum. No problem.
He seems to think that it's perfectly fine for us to go 3 days without lynching a mafia, which would put us in a MYLO situation. Not exactly what I'd call a pro-town position to be in. His justification for saying this is pretty weak I think.
1. If the game gets to this point, scum obviously haven't been easy to spot, and it doesn't really get much easier. Sure, the "odds" might be more in your favor, but if you're in this situation, scum probably are pretty good at hiding in plain sight.
2. Yeah, scum might sacrifice one of their own. But 5 town/ 3 scum is still MYLO. I don't see how a townie could say that this is "no problem".
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On February 27 2012 14:04 FourFace wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 13:59 Janaan wrote:One thing that stands out most to me about Ghost's posting is this gem right here Another way to look at that is if you are still left during day 3 after 2 mislynches. There are 6 townies and 4 scum. The scum are either (1) forced to work together to stay alive, and are pretty easy to spot or (2) are going to sacrifice one of their own. Unless something goes horribly, horribly wrong, the worst case scenario for day 4 is 5 townies to 3 scum. No problem.
He seems to think that it's perfectly fine for us to go 3 days without lynching a mafia, which would put us in a MYLO situation. Not exactly what I'd call a pro-town position to be in. His justification for saying this is pretty weak I think. 1. If the game gets to this point, scum obviously haven't been easy to spot, and it doesn't really get much easier. Sure, the "odds" might be more in your favor, but if you're in this situation, scum probably are pretty good at hiding in plain sight. 2. Yeah, scum might sacrifice one of their own. But 5 town/ 3 scum is still MYLO. I don't see how a townie could say that this is "no problem". Janaan you really don't like statistics do you? Noone is gonna not lynch for 3 days it's stupid, it's pretty jumpy of you to attack him like that. I figure you really don't like statistics
That's not not-lynching, that's mislynching. It looks to me like he's saying that it's ok if we mislynch 3 times in a row, and I don't like that. This has nothing to do with statistics.
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On February 27 2012 14:06 Alderan wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On February 27 2012 13:59 Janaan wrote:One thing that stands out most to me about Ghost's posting is this gem right here Show nested quote +Another way to look at that is if you are still left during day 3 after 2 mislynches. There are 6 townies and 4 scum. The scum are either (1) forced to work together to stay alive, and are pretty easy to spot or (2) are going to sacrifice one of their own. Unless something goes horribly, horribly wrong, the worst case scenario for day 4 is 5 townies to 3 scum. No problem.
He seems to think that it's perfectly fine for us to go 3 days without lynching a mafia, which would put us in a MYLO situation. Not exactly what I'd call a pro-town position to be in. His justification for saying this is pretty weak I think. 1. If the game gets to this point, scum obviously haven't been easy to spot, and it doesn't really get much easier. Sure, the "odds" might be more in your favor, but if you're in this situation, scum probably are pretty good at hiding in plain sight. 2. Yeah, scum might sacrifice one of their own. But 5 town/ 3 scum is still MYLO. I don't see how a townie could say that this is "no problem". Janaan, talk to me about Chocolate.
I agree that Chocolate does seem a little wishy washy, saying stuff like Our vote will probably end up being a lurker then he seems to say at least slightly differently in his next post
I'm not sure we will lynch a lurker on Day1
It seems to me that for the most part, though, his posts are fairly consistent with the idea of lynching lurkers in mind.
I don't really know what That sounds like a good idea. I really can't see any problems with that tbh, and it works well for me because in the event of a massive vote swing I probably won't be online to provide input. was about, and it does seem like he could be just trying to cover for himself so he can justify not being active near the voting deadline. Particularly when he did say that he'd most likely be online 7:30 EST 17-21 EST . 17-21 EST is the hours before the deadline, so he may've contradicted himself there.
There's not really enough for me to call him scum right now, but he looks like he could be potentially.
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On February 27 2012 14:19 FourFace wrote:
Oh so you don't like .. ok, that's another story.
##Vote Janaan
BAM!
I figure I'd come back to change my vote from the hydra. Then I thought but it did him good.. his first post was ok, but since I'm here I figure I vote for the guy with the most fing around in his posts. Janaan, tell me again about your contributions to this game. No case, just a summary of what you have achieved. And don't expect me to reply until about 7-8 hours later. This is like a monologue, your big chance to prove that you are town.
So....you want me to read you my Filter? I don't really know what you want me to say, since you didn't give me anything to respond to. A "monologue to prove that I'm town" doesn't help anyone, honestly, because it doesn't prove anything. You say I had alot of f-ing around in my posts? Tell me what you're talking about and I'll respond to that, but I'm not gonna just make a giant fluff post if that's what you want.
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Thank you. Now that I know what you want me to respond to, I can actually address your post.
1. The man asked a question, I answered it. I don't know why you have a problem with that. I did the same thing when Steve asked about hydras.
2. Early, when the game first started, I was trying to get people to talk. Asking them questions is a way to do this, even if it's about basic town policies like lurker lynching or having a fake vote deadline. You'll notice that I tried to do this with most people early game, because I wanted them to post more than two sentences on a subject. It's probably not the BEST way to get people talking, but that's what I was trying to do.
3. In my experience, lurkers are a huge problem, particularly in newbie games. You bet that I'm gonna address it, and early in the game is the best time. It's not a revolutionary viewpoint, but I'd prefer to get it out on the table as soon as possible than have it go completely unsaid.
4. Gumshoe asked when people are available. So I told him. Yeah, my schedule is a bit wierd, so the post looked a bit wierd. But that's my basic schedule. You may not care, but he asked, so obviously he does.
5. I admit, this does look odd since I didn't quote what I was replying to and there's another post and a page break inbetween mine and Gumshoe's post. But I wasn't talking to myself, I was talking to Gumshoe.
As far as statistics, I made one post about them. That post was replying to your post that had a bunch of statistics that I think don't really help anyone, and don't really inform the decision that you came to. I made a second post about Ghost that you assumed had to do with statistics, but as I already said, doesn't. I haven't been "on and off about statistics" at all.
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At the moment, I'm thinking Ghost. He's been talking about lynching, even saying that it's ok to mislynch multiple times in a row. Definitely seems like a scummy mindset to me. He also hasn't posted since the accusations came up, which doesn't help.
## Vote: Ghost_403
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On February 28 2012 04:10 JekyllAndHyde wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 13:02 Janaan wrote:On February 27 2012 10:50 JekyllAndHyde wrote:On February 27 2012 07:49 Janaan wrote:
So FourFace, pretty much all I got out of that post was that you don't like Mafia guides, and that you're readily admitting that you lied when you told me there wasn't a reason why you voted for JekyllAndHyde. That's not really a very good start to defending yourself in my opinion. You say that DYH and gumshoe made "good observations", that you were waiting for FF to defend himself, and now you say that wasn't a very good start to defending himself. ....so? What do you think about it? Did that convince you he was scum or not? At the moment, I'm leaning toward noob townie, much like my read on Gumshoe last game, but I'll probably keep a close watch on his posts. I was really hoping that FourFace would post again, maybe try to clarify his post at least, but he's still nowhere to be found. You should have mentioned that before though, since it didn't seem you implied that at all. /Hyde
Yeah, maybe I should've mentioned it before, but my original response to FF defense was primarily to say essentially "hey, what you just said won't convince anyone that you're town, you should maybe try again". I really wanted him to post again about the evidence against him. I think adding "but I don't think you're scum" to my post could have taken away some of the pressure for FF to post again.
Once he didn't post, and you asked for my read on him, I gave it.
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I think for the most part Ghost addressed my concerns. I don't 100% agree with his opinion, but that's ok. I look forward to seeing what Ghost has to say concerning today's lynch.
## Unvote: Ghost_204
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EPT
