EPTSurprisingly Normal Mini Mafia VII
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trackd00r
Chile284 Posts
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trackd00r
Chile284 Posts
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trackd00r
Chile284 Posts
 Well, this is my first mafia game ever and I'm eager to see how everything turns out from here! Regarding lynch policies, I prefer the idea of not to lynch lurkers, but instead to pressure them to post. When the first votes are cast, we will hopefully see the reactions each one has. An inactive town is an easy prey for scum I guess... But, something I want to get clear is the fact of discussing the actual lynch policies. If we don't reach an agreement in a considerable amount of time, we might end up talking about this topic until the end of day 1, giving mafia more place to hide. This kind of discussion is not useful after the first reads and cases are made, plus it'll be just. So I persuade to you to give fast and concrete opinions regarding lynches so we can hunt scum afterwards  I see familiar faces from Newbie Mini Mafia III (sl0sh, DoYouHas, Midnghtgladuis, zelblade). I followed very closely that game, so I'm keeping an eye on you! By the way, that poll is just lol.... How are we going to keep non-players from voting? :/ | ||
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Chile284 Posts
@jaj22: Regarding in the comparison of those four players in NMM3, Their metagame has been similar so far, with a very few exceptions: -Sloosh has been very aggressive against EcheleonTea after he made an indirect scum claim (not sure if he was kidding still). The discussion lasted quite a bit with lots of attacks against each other. I'm not missing that attitude from sloosh, but I still expect more from him as town, by pulling off cases and encouraging everyone to participate, opposed to pick off a single target and turning it into a semi-heated talk. Helping us by posting the filters (thanks btw) and giving some general advice is nice to hear, but that fight left me with a little drop of doubt. Anyways, I somewhat understand that he was trying to defend from the first claim and in that case, it's the right thing to do. Looking good. -DoyouHas seems to be pointing the town to the right direction: taking the confidence to be the first to post (BUT last newbie mafia the first poster turned to be scum, with the difference that it was just fluff), gathering information and making his stand clear to everyone. Seems very pro town from me, the same way he did it in NMM3. -MidnightGladius has somewhat posted in the begging of the game. However, he does still have that flaw present in the past game, which is to make useless calculations and proportions about the mafia/town ratio. I feel that doesn't really contributes much to the dialogue. His next post have been better though, analyzing and commenting about the Echelon-sloosh clash and the not that succesful plan of gumshoe. I hope he keeps like that. Important to mention that those 3 players had blue roles in NMM3, so looking through their posts in the next days can make a clearer picture of them and their attitude to everything in general. -Zelbalde has only posted once, giving advice to us and apologizing. This was his biggest flaw last game. We know that you are a busy person zelblade, but posting just once is fine, instead of refilling your posts with more 'sorry' and making you either difficult to read or a scum candidate. Well, that's all regarding the past players, but of course we need to take look to the rest... Gumshoe did not had the best start ever in a mafia game. That first post was just flashy and not very elaborated. As Echelon said, it could be interpreted as an attempt to derail the discussion. This thing drew my attention quite a bit: + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + On February 17 2012 11:36 EchelonTee wrote: Show nested quote + I would like it if you divided your walls of text into paragraphs; it took me a few to fathom your post, when I realized you're not saying anything. K very simple I wanted to see if any voting patterns formed within the poll It was like a lynch simulator But less than 12 people have voted in the pole therefore any conjecture regarding any mafia patterns is at the moment useless. Because it's possible that none of the mafia voted given that town thinks the poll is stupid and just posted on it randomly or trolingly. Discredit it until theres twelve votes or just discredit it period if you so please. That is all. That ridiculously excessive action regarding to divide your text into paragraphs makes you look fell very uncomfortable and desperate to get out of that situation. I'll take your plan as a newbie mistake, but that last post can draw suspicion... In my opinion, we should take a look at Steveling posts: + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + On February 17 2012 10:50 gumshoe wrote: Hi everybody! Im the friendly neighbourhood gum on your shoe! Today I come to you with a plan that'll hopefully shed some light on the certainly vile nature of the scum infesting our sacred house...OF GAMBLING! The plan is a simple anonymous poll asking wether your a townie or a scumie. Now in the case of the townie there is no risk whatsoever in voting townie, on acounta a) you are a townie and b) no one can say otherwise cause your voting anonymously. In fact I very much so ask that you don't say which one your voting for or wether or not your even voting at all. All I ask is that if you're a townie vote townie, or don't vote, please don't troll and say your mafia I REPEAT NO TOWNIES VOTE MAFIA, IT SHALL BE THE END OF US ALL!!!!!! This only works if all the townies voting vote townie so please do so if your a townie. If your mafia feel free to vote as well, in fact the whole purpose of this exercise is to see if you as a group abstain from voting, vote as you please, or all vote townie. This is an experiment to study the mafia and I promise to only do this once, so whata ya say newcomers! Watcha gonna be? I'd just likely to repeat one last time there is ABSOLUTELY no way I or anyone else can ascertain your alignment through this vote, so please give it a shot, it might very well teach us something useful. Poll: Anonymous vote: are YOU mafia? Mafioso (16) 80% Townie (4) 20% 20 total votes Your vote: Anonymous vote: are YOU mafia? (Vote): Townie (Vote): Mafioso I loled soo hard reading this. As for me, I played one more game of mafia, but it was the biggest fail human kind has ever witnessed. There were 80 players in it, and it ended with the scum offering a draw, cause the city was that bad, T_T. I was a towny needless to say. Here's the link, http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=285690 I think I'm with jaj on the lurker lynching. Since unless some serious slips happen it's our best bet for scumhunt. + Show Spoiler + On February 17 2012 11:25 jaj22 wrote: + Show Spoiler + @Gumshoe: Did you get some RL buddies to spam your own vote, just in case it was accidentally useful? @Steveling: I see you lynched Palmar on your first day. Not the greatest start to a mafia career. Fortunately we don't have any awesome scumhunting veterans in this game. Or mayors. Yeah, that was ...unfortunate, Q_Q. But, I did have the best scumreads based on clues in that game. Well that was all I could do so I spent a lot of time into these. Also in my defense all the towny veterans where cockfighting each other so it was impossible for a newbie to tell who was what. + Show Spoiler + On February 17 2012 11:55 gumshoe wrote: Show nested quote + + Show Spoiler + I apologize as well. This was just a random shot to start off the night, I mean theres really nothing to discuss until something happens and it beats just randomly accusing people, but ill try not to do something like this again... for this game at least! Just an idea, if you want this to work in future games, I think you need to post a clarifying post before the poll-post, something like a preemptive strike, so you get full cooperation from townies and state the purpose. For example, I voted scum on the poll before I even read it just to troll, T_T. There is barely anything helpful on those posts. Not really contributing . I expect you to post more or my suspicion to you will rise. That's it for the moment. I'll be checking again the thread in a couple of hours. My absence in the past is just sleeping. As may notice, my time is roughly the same as EST, so I'll be up for deadlines and lynches. And sorry for the bad formatting @ spoilers >.< I'll PM a mod later so I get some help lol | ||
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trackd00r
Chile284 Posts
On February 18 2012 05:20 Steveling wrote: Ok, just woke up and caught on the action. So, my view on the whole thing is that we should push for a no lynch day 1. The reasoning: We are close to the night, very close actually and we have zero solid cases on anyone. Yes mannerkiss's weird 1 liner is scummy, also both eche and sloosh became defensive too fast and yes there are some lurkers as well. Nothing we can make a strong case on. But chanses are that we are probably gonna misslynch day1 with the current situation. So the way I see it, we either push for a lurker lynch or a no lynch. And with a no lynch we promote more discussion without losing an unlucky towny, more discussion always benefits the town. What do you guys think? I'm sorry Steveling, but I definitely think that no-lynch is no no. We are not close to night. We've only had played for 21 hours and that's less than half of the time. We still have plenty of time to build a strong case on anyone. There have been several stances where we could gather information and I know that we can use it to push out a lynch. If it turns out mafia, great. If not, we will see the bandwagons and those who are dodging the cases to make a good and hopefully successful lynch in the second day. Well, you have posted much more content than you did it on your previous post, but I insist, I disagree with a no-lynch. Gumshoe, sometimes I think that you are going more pro-town, but in some other instances I just don't understand your intentions. Even you manage to contradict your self: On February 17 2012 13:36 gumshoe wrote: Early reports! All very preliminary but hopefully it'll give everyone an idea of where some townies stand and where some lurkers don't. blae - absent but has an alibi(by alibi I mean he said before game that he would not be especially present day one) Alderan - Absent no alibi Ech - present but slightly suspicious ) : Do you has - present has contributed somewhat(a single post against the word of Ech) no basis for suspicion manner kiss- has presented himself but has not yet contributed to discussion. No basis for suspicion steveling - is present has contributed to discussion does not seem suspicious. track door - has made himself present has contributed somewhat to discussion no reason yet to suspect midnight- is present has contributed , (is mean to me but rightfully so )  no reason to suspect as of yetSloosh - has contributed, acted out only to defend himself, does not seem suspicius Janaan- is absent no alibi tk hawakins- is absent no aibi dimmuKlk- is absent no alibi zell - is absent no alibi jaj22 - is present, is also somewhat mean but justifiably so as far as I can tell, his negative tone is striking negative but not yet suspicion worthy. On February 18 2012 05:09 gumshoe wrote: Now for stance number two! This ones about the lovely poll! Unlike the topic of lynching lurkers, nearly everyone( with the exception of manner kiss and a few other lurkers) has stated an opinion on this matter, heres the breakdown of where everyone stands. Fore warning I'm a lot less objective here so take my opinions as you will. Thinks I'm the nubbiest of noobs: Blae(not much to say, just seems like he wants to move on from the poll which isn't really what a mafia would want) Janan (just disregarded my poll and moved on, not very suspicious behaviour) Steveling( hasn't commented to much, posted rather jokingly in response to my poll... Almost as if he wasn't worried about the prospect of me being mafia... Steve needs to post more.) Midnight Gladius (didn't think I was mafia, not a suprise gladius dosent seem to take many risks) TKHawkins( hasn't said much) With this, I really want to make you think more carefully about you post. You say that Steveling has contributed to the discussion, when he actually didn't really at that point (he even loled at your poll) and then you suddenly realize deeper into the game that he hasn't commented much? I'm letting of the suspicion of you but please, please, think carefully every post you make. Instead of replaying to every post, try to start a case or at least draw your lynch candidates in a clear way. I swear that I can't even understand some of your posts, and not only to me, but all the town right here. For the moment, i'm lifting my suspicions about you and Steve I need to keep checking the filters and try to build up a strong case. There have been a lot of situations going on here and I'm starting to lose focus >_<. Expect more posting from me, I will. | ||
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trackd00r
Chile284 Posts
I have no other option that expressing me my reads. Let's start Steveling: For a moment, I thought that you would have a more cooperative attitude towards the thread, but the only post which I've seen of content is this one: On February 18 2012 05:20 Steveling wrote: Ok, just woke up and caught on the action. So, my view on the whole thing is that we should push for a no lynch day 1. The reasoning: We are close to the night, very close actually and we have zero solid cases on anyone. Yes mannerkiss's weird 1 liner is scummy, also both eche and sloosh became defensive too fast and yes there are some lurkers as well. Nothing we can make a strong case on. But chanses are that we are probably gonna misslynch day1 with the current situation. So the way I see it, we either push for a lurker lynch or a no lynch. And with a no lynch we promote more discussion without losing an unlucky towny, more discussion always benefits the town. What do you guys think? After that, you only attacked gumshoe, targeting mannerkiss with no reason whatsoever and post content less posts regarding lynches + random fluff. I'm expecting a lot more of you. You have been reading the thread long enough to build some accusations. EchelonTee: What's with the over aggressive and 'flashy' way of posting? I thought that after your talk vs sl0osh your posting style could have changed, but instead you post short lines which clearly lack a basis. My suspicion towards is raising because we don't need these kind of posting here. It looks like you want to work by your own. I hardly see any attempt of trying to lead the town to a healthy discussion. Instead, you are creating a confusing atmosphere to us. What is your plan? Which are your goals? Your intentions are not very clear... Probably the most confusing thing you did in the whole game is jump to vote at MG just after jaj22 opened a case against him. On February 18 2012 09:49 EchelonTee wrote: He was trolling, most likely. You are not. ##Vote MidnightGladius more after these messages! Seriously? No reasoning? Not any argument behind? Please, take a look to his behavior. I find it really scum and definitely NOT pro-town. This also applies to your earlier stand against sl0osh. MidnightGladius: You are in the very edge of what I consider constructive posting and what is just repeating what others said. I look you more to the path of constructiveness, but I'm expecting more about you. Your posting was slightly better in NMM3, although limited still (you were vig that game). Be a little more aggressive, but that's all. DimmuKlok: Please post more. You have only targeted the most obvious players at that moment. Also your 1st and 2nd were very fluffy. If you don't contribute more you will get targeted. Alderan: He looks very town for me at least. You made your stand clear from the start and you are pressuring Dimmu. Looks very neat so far. Mannerkiss: When you get back home, you'd better have good reads/accusations because your absence is really hurting us. Your semi analysis in your last post targets common players as well. I want to see more. jaj22: I don't have a clear picture of you yet You have been replying a fair amount of posts and looking forward information. I wouldn't vote for MG that early though, but it's up to you and we'll see how things come into the light after some hours. blae000: Perhaps you've only have made a few posts, but they are good quality ones. He looks to have good intentions. I would like to read more about him though. TWhawkins This has been his only contribution so far: On February 17 2012 13:56 TKHawkins wrote: Welcome. First game on this forum. Anyway, I don't think Gumshoes poll is scummy. It's more likely he just thought "he I wonder if this idea would work." Clearly the answer is no and he didn't really think it through. Seems like more of newbie attempt at something more then anything else. I'm sure the obsever quick thread is already LOLing hard at us. I laughed too (and didn't vote since I hadn't known the game had started). As for the policy on Lurker hunting, it's obviously a bit early to call people lurkers since many people might not even know the game has started yet (though definately not too early to discuss how to handle lurkers). It is best not to go after lurkers right away. The mafia generally aren't going to be completely inactive at the start. Rather, they are going to try to blend in. Scum post a reasonable amount, but don't contribute. And finally, the Sl0osh vs Ech thing, I do think it's suspicious for Sl0osh to be acting defensive already. We need to hear more. Please, don't be shy. Come with some accusations. Your posts somewhat seem to you to look interested, but your post count says to opposite. Janaan: Hard to read. He has good intentions and makes good points, but I still i want to hear more from him. Looking forward to his posts. gumshoe: OK i'll be honest with this one. Many times when I saw his posts, i just the feeling to grab my laptop and smash to the ground. I'm pretty sure that everyone is conscious of this posts and ideas. He has been slowing down the posting for a while and in fact has given good well developed opinions against jaj and somewhat to MG. Anyways, that drama we saw in the first hours didn't really made a good organized discussion later on. I'm glad that your are calming down, gum. DoYouHas Very active, pointing good posts and having a very good analysis in his posts. A very good town read from him. sl0osh Your posts have been more concrete after the clash with ET. You are slowly getting to that style I loved about you back in NMM3. I'm expecting you to build a very good solid case in the future. That would be it. I really want to see EchelonTee with more productive and well developed posts. His individualism in this thread make me feels he has the most scummy behavior. I'll wait to your response before I cast my vote, specially the one regarding the MG jumping. | ||
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trackd00r
Chile284 Posts
On February 18 2012 12:49 EchelonTee wrote: trackdoor, my plan is to lynch scum. as townie, i'm nost supposed to have elaborate plans. why would u assume that i have a master plan can ppl stop ignoring my post on dimmuklok. stop saying that i'm doing nothing and posting "flashy", i posted some analysis. OK, fine. Now I would like to hear some analysis about your vote on MidnightGladius | ||
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Chile284 Posts
Zelblade, I'm glad you are posting again @DYH: Sorry for ignoring your post regarding gumshoe. It's well... I can't explain the situation anymore. I know that he is town because otherwise, their teammates would have told him to shut up and calm down. I'm very afraid that gumshoe style of posting brings more confusion a chaos to the thread. From now, I'm not going to get into more of his drama if there isn't a very good reason to do so. @TKhawkins: There is a huge difference between a player who posts lots of content less posts and one who post a few but deep and content. For example blae000 hasn't posted a lot of times, but his posts are good. Ech and gumshoe, in the other hand... I still believe that ET is our best candidate for lynching. I've already given my explanations why, as well as others. He hasn't replied my post yet. Sorry, but I cant wait any longer. ##Vote: EchelonTee MannerKiss, please show up again with something new, or I'll consider switching my vote. | ||
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Chile284 Posts
ET, I just hope that you keep posting good cases like that. Even though I disagree with MG lynch, your last posts are making up my mind. I'm going to unvote by now. As for the candidates we have now, I think that our biggest option is DimmuKlok. Yes, it's been a while since you haven't posted good content. This post caught my attention: On February 18 2012 14:27 DimmuKlok wrote: I accidentally posted before I was finished. I will continue from where i left off. I'm not actually sure what you meant by that, but nothing in that post was sarcasm. I'm was not bandwagoning when it came to gumshoe. He was one of my highest suspicions at the time of the post, and remains the highest on my list. For this reason I'm giving him my vote. If there is anything I can do for you guys to help prove my innocence then feel free to post it. ##vote: gumshoe Proving your innocence is something that you should be doing subconsciously when playing as town. You know that you are innocent, and that should be enough to show your confidence to us. I expect a mafia player trying to ask for help, but not a townie. Your other posts were your defense against alderan, apologies and calling out lurkers. I think that scum is making it's best effort to hide your case, but as the lynch is coming, I have to cast a realistic vote that doesn't hurt the town. ##Unvote: EchelonTee ##Vote: DimmuKlok The is a chance that I miss the lynch, but I'll try to not. | ||
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Chile284 Posts
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Dimmu could have been played better though. I'm going to bed now. Tomorrow I'll post my thoughts. I too tired now. I did a bit of reading though. Sorry If I appear lurkish to you. I'll do my best. See you in some hours. | ||
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Chile284 Posts
@gumshoe: Your logic couldn't be any more flawed. You are basically saying that mafia is organized because they compliment each other. This is fact very inaccurate. Because: 1) The worst thing that organized mafia might do is openly expressing about their teammates. I'd rather expect them to pick off single targets to jump/defend at odd times while not catching attention or being linked to other players. 2) Those posts were roughly half into the game, when everyone is trying to prove they're town. Yes, at that time those were my reads, but now, as the game has progressed more, I have different opinions that I'll be addressing in the next paragraphs. I insist that your ways of scum hunting are not effective and the only thing that you can get out of this is more people pointing their eyes on you, more chaos and more place to mafia to hide. OK, now to more serious matters... My following thoughts are directed to DoYouHas. I've changed my view on him. If you think that he has been contributing on the discussion, I think you need to take a look closer to his behavior. His play so far has mostly consisted of: 1) Convincing us that gumshoe is town 2) Responding to almost every sloosh's post and draw suspicion upon him. For the first part: On February 18 2012 09:51 DoYouHas wrote: Here is my thinking on gumshoe so far. I think he is a townie. gumshoe has done a number of things that are not helping the town. The have been pointed out quite a few times so I won't go into depth about them now. Things like derailing, cluttering, unclear-ness, lying, a few inconsistencies. Yet in spite of this my intuition keeps pulling me towards a townie read for him. Here are a few of the things that are informing this stance: First and foremost is gumshoe's reckless and active posting style. I just don't see him as someone who is checking his posts with team members or even as someone who is going to a mafia QT and discussing his moves. He strikes me as playing by the seat of his pants, which is something I would not expect of scum on day1. This is supported by the little inconsistencies in his posting (I am thinking specifically about the one trackd00r pointed out) Secondly, gumshoe has both continued to defend himself about the poll while admitting that it makes him look scummy. I would expect a couple things from a scum put in a similar situation. Either he would play it off as a ploy and a joke in order to get people talking (which he did somewhat) and then try to put it behind him, or he would take some early shots at throwing suspicion onto someone else. He did not try to put it behind him, he even says that you would be crazy not to be suspicious of him for the poll. He took a long long time to start throwing actual suspicions around which I think is a long time to wait when you are scum and in the spotlight early. Like I said at the start, this is a stance based on intuition, not solid logic. So feel free to pick at it. I'll leave you with a bit of information that I've been keeping track of. People who have been defending/supporting gumshoe (soft or otherwise): + Show Spoiler + struck out names are for those who have switched DoYouHas, Alderan, Janaan, TKHawkins, People who have been attacking/suspicious of gumshoe: MidnightGladius, blae000, ET, Steveling(kinda), trackd00r, sl0osh, Dimmuklok, jaj22, Why were you trying so hard to defend gumshoe? I don't see the point of proving he is green when you said before that he had little contribution. Plus, posting lists of people going pro-against doesn't really give us a push as town to kill mafia. Specially when you later said that these kind of posting is not helpful: On February 19 2012 04:57 DoYouHas wrote: TKHawkins: Not much to say here. I dislike his first post as it was just a conglomerate of posts others made before with a poor assumption about scum tagged on (an assumption that would exclude TKHawkins from the pool of possible scum of course). Then, in his last post he started following the format of listing everyone with basic reads on them. THIS NEEDS TO STOP. Posting lists is not nearly as helpful as posting thoughtful analysis on a few people. If posting lists becomes standard then we are giving scum an easy way of making long posts that stay shallow. The correlation of these two ideas seem very suspicious to me. What do you think? Then you still kept track of gum's play. You point out his mistakes. I don't feel that you are doing it to help gumshoe to post better, but instead to appear to us as someone constantly watching him, like a babysitter. On February 18 2012 15:45 DoYouHas wrote: Just finished reading after being away for a while. Gum, for the sake of my eyes, when you quote walls of text, put them in spoilers. If you are doing analysis on that wall of text, link the whole thing then just quote the relevant parts. Also, the preview button is your friend. I'm going to go back over what I just read again and let it sink in a bit. I dislike that no one directly addressed my defense of gumshoe, with the exception of ET. I wrote it to be picked at and debated, but you all seem content hammering away at each other. Making big cases and walls of text is nice, but spending all your time on them is going to blind you. I know from personal experience. My schedule is going to be very busy tomorrow. I will be unavailable starting at 4-3 hours before the deadline and remain so for something like 8-9 hours. In reality, people did not addressed your defense of gumshoe because they are actually more interested in killing mafia, which is the goal of the game and what we should be really doing. I still wonder, why do you worry so much about gum? On February 18 2012 16:22 DoYouHas wrote: People obviously have strong feelings about you gum. I find it strange that the only hard second party defense of you would be ignored by your accusers. There are any number of things to debate in that post, not the least of which is the obvious WIFOM in the second point. I still think it is a valid point. But I was defending you based off what I would assume a mafia would do in the same situation as you. Maybe people think that my points simply didn't deserve discussion, which would be strange with how hard Steveling, Midnight, and Dimmuklok are coming after you. The only way it has been discussed that I have seen is through statements similar to, "I can't believe people are ignoring gum's anti-town play". Moving on... This is another bad plan gum -_-. I have already explained why I think you are town, and I am far from convinced of ET's scumminess. So from my perspective the only value in your plan is a lynch for information, which is dumb. There is still time on the clock to take apart all the cases that have been presented by quite a few people and really try and get a sense of what is going on. And should that fail I am actually pretty content with landing on someone like MannerKiss or another fluff poster. We need to lynch according to the most likely to be scum, I will try to make my case for who that is early tomorrow so there will still be time for voting. When I read that bolded phrase in your quote, I was expecting to you to drop off a little bit about gum and talk about something else. But yet, you still kept talking about gum. Now regarding to your play against sloosh, I thought for some time you are just being blinded for every thing he posts. You built up so many high expectations him that now every little inconsistency in his played leads to more and more attacks to him. To say something, your suspicion and posterior voting to him was because you wanted him to play in a way that you feel comfortable. You didn't like his attitude in his clash with ET, yet you lifted your suspicion against him. Then you went again. You haven't left a good analysis in any other player since then. It's been enough with sloosh. I highly doubt that you'll get a majority voting for him when if you don't back up your arguments not because why you don't like his play to your criteria, but rather you see his anti-town play. On February 19 2012 04:57 DoYouHas wrote: sl0osh: It may be that sl0osh just has not had time to sit down and really work things out yet, but what he has posted so far still makes me suspicious of him. I already made my original post against him, and that has largely been dealt with. He provided an explanation, and I thought it was reasonable. What isn't reasonable is his extreme lack of taking a stance. I divide his responses into 3 things: responses to pressure, explanation of the game, expressing his own views under his own volition. It is VERY troubling to me how much of the content he has posted fits into those first two categories. Explanation of the game: (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) Responses to pressure: ET vs sl0osh (1) (2) (3) (4) Expressing his own views: (1) (2) (3) Take note that the only person he has expressed an opinion on that didn't first attack him is gumshoe, and even those opinions are non-committal. sl0osh has done almost exactly what ET has done, except he hasn't provided us with any stances that we can later use against him. I refuse to believe that with 4hours left in the day, sl0osh has no opinions or cases worth posting. He is just trying to slide by, I won't let him. ##Vote: sl0osh He's promoted a case now (yours) and has already given opinions at this moment. I ask again: How is he hurting town? You have only made one post with your reads. I think that you are focusing in single targets to draw out suspicion while keeping discussion with them in order to show your town play, which is not what something that really help us. | ||
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Personally, I'm not convinced with MidnightGladius case. I don't agree with the reasoning that jaj and ET gave. I'm not going to get into details about that, since we need to focus in other targets that don't create chaos. Alderan is lurking quite heavily now. And I need to say it. He has been one of the least contributors in this game so far. I have the feeling that he is just watching the thread, and watching us bash each other. + Show Spoiler + On February 18 2012 02:01 Alderan wrote: Hi guys, excited to get started. Ok so here are just my thoughts as I read through the thread (going to be pretty peacemeal as I catch up): As for my experience, most recently I played in SNMMIV as scum. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=232826 And before that I played a Vanilla towny in http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=227500. I've also read a couple games all the way through I see that next we entered the obligatory Lurker Lynch policy discussion so I will throw in my $.02. We need to approach this in a way where lurkers know they will get lynched if they do not post. Our philosophy should be that someone who is blatantly lurking WILL get lynched unless of these 2 situations happens. 1. Adequate involvement from everyone. I have seen town get so focused on lynching a lurker that when that person becomes active the bandwagon has already started rolling so fast downhill that there's no stopping it. That person ends up being town more often than not. 2. There is an obvious scum slip or we can identify someone almost assuredly as scum. Let's make sure we don't hit a blue in our insistence on lynching someone day 1, if the obvious choice is not there, it's not there. That will be decided much closer to the end of the voting period though. Stay diligent. This poll is comical. I still fail to see the reasoning behind it. While discussion is good, let's not go round and round about that, almost no substantive value to be had. More worrisome than the poll is how quick to the gun ET was. Without formally FoSing, in my opinion you have already semi-accused DoYouHaas, Sloosh, and gumshoe. Do you stand any of these at all? If so which is the most scummy? I don't like it, and by it I mean blasting away with the accuse cannon nonstop. We need to hear from Mannerkiss again definitely. Gumshoe you're absolutely correct about Midnight Gladius's ratio post. What is the easiest way to "contribute" without actually contributing anything thats not common knowledge? Speculate about the setup/discuss the ratios and KP, and inactive lists. Those things are not inherently scummy, but they must be followed up with additional contributions. This first reminded me a lot of Zarepath's first post in NMM3, where he turned to be scum. Starts off with a fluffy hypothetical talk about what happens if X situation occurs. Then it goes on and makes the obvious remarks: The poll, ET vs sloosh and calling out manner kiss. Notice how he is just checking the thread. Then his next 2 posts are about gumshoe. Nothing really worthy to add to the discussion. Then it goes this case against Dimmu. It's ok, a lurker, everyone can be suspicious about (even I did). But that's not the point. I would've expected to vote him right away to put some pressure. Instead he just waited to other chaos to set in to cast his vote, when everyone was having different suspicions in other people. He addresses other players in a very shallow way. His opinions to ET and gum were very light IMO. If you think that just writing a case in the easiest case and posting everyone 5-6 hours is going to work, you are wrong. What do you think about the MidnightGladius case? Or DoYouHas'? FOS: Alderan | ||
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On February 21 2012 00:41 Mattchew wrote: As of right now rgTheSchworz - lets give him a chance to post a little DoYouHas - should be lynched today Of these five, 2 or 3 should be the remaining scum team (+/- rg) This is who vig should shoot into in this order Alderan TKHawkins trackd00r Janaan zelblade Remaining Skeptical of EchelonTee When is night post? anyone can answer this I'm not expressing any thoughts you give a good reasoning behind. You should have a very good analysis to put 5 scum candidates in order to make that list. Explain why am I third at least... Janaan, THK, what do you think about this? Btw, night post is on tuesday, 09:00 forum time. Regarding the DYH situation, I believe the best we can do is hold the vote to him. The only real and possibly working solution that scum can pull if DYH is red is to push other cases now. I agree with the points that Zelblade made. No one is going to jump into the spotlight and defend him. Anyways, alderan please reply to my post. Becuase I'm switching DYH doesn't mean I'll let you off. ##Vote: DoYouHas | ||
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On February 21 2012 04:21 Alderan wrote: Sorry for the hiatus, but I'm back, lets rock. Ok so here's some voting analysis I did about the Day 1 vote. In the last 30 minutes of voting 7 people Switched to Dimmuklok in this order: Trapd00r MidnightGladius Zelblade Jaj22 Sloosh TKHawkins EchelonTree This is a kind of switch that I have never seen before, and what it tells me is that mafia were extremely scared to no lynch or we were previously targeting a scum member. The leader prior to the lynch was EchelonTree who was coincidentally the lynch pin in the voting (pun definitely intended). Situation 1. Fear of no lynch: Mafia feels confident they are not being targeted in the least, and thus starts pushing whomever they feel like they can get votes on to. The only concise and irrefutable case at the time was mine on Dimmuklok so it was a perfect fit. The voting was in dissaray, so much so that MidnightGladius even makes the comment that the only people that are going to be able to be lynched are him and EchelonTree, so we need to decide something. Then Trapd00r leads off with the "Oh hey, Alderan's case was pretty good, lets take it into consideration now". 20 minutes later, we have a misslynch. Situation 2. EchelonTree is scum This situation hinges around the idea that ET was leading the voting prior to the end of the day, and managed a 20 minute shift of votes to, for better or worse, let him live another day. The idea is this then (this one get's a little WIFOMy but bear with me, it's logical), mafia are scrambling, looking for any case they can get a bandwagon on, identify mine, and jump on it using the town's fear of a no lynch as leverage to save their own and lynch a towny. Those not voting for ET that switched to Dimmuklok- - Sloosh - Zelblade - EchelonTree Note about Situation 2: Trapd00r seems more town in this situation than in Situation 1 as he had a vote cast on ET and was one of the major ET critics. Can't rule him out completely, but definitely if Situation 2 is correct he is leaning town. Well which do you think, Alderan? Well, I think situation 1 is the most logical in that everyone pretty much knew at the time of the vote that there going to be a no lynch unless a drastic change was made, so scum supporting ET would not have created a huge movement off of him, because that can only raise suspicions. This is WIFOM of course, which is why I listed both options instead of just Scenario 1. My next post will be analysis of Trapd00r, which should give us a nudge in the right direction about which of these cases happened. First of all, my ID is trackd00r, not trapd00r. It kinda annoys me when people misspell that. This was careless play by my part. I tried to push a ET lynch. Half an hour before the lynch, I realized that we were about to no-lynch. -I didn't want to hold my vote to ET because there were a couple of players that wouldn't change his vote to him by any means. -I didn't vote gumshoe because I thought (and I still think) he is town. -I didn't vote for MG because I just wasn't convinced at that case. His metagame, compared to NMM3, didn't alarm of any signs of scumisness, at least for me. Not many were convinced enough of his case as well. -I didn't vote for DYH/Sloosh because they both had 1 vote. I DID vote for dimmu because he was the least contributor so far. It seemed to be a transparent case that was blinded with the chaos and bandwagons of MG/ET and to a lesser extent gum. I knew that people were to going to switch to dimmu. It was the easiest case and at that time, the other players didn't want to mess with explaining other cases from other candidates. I didn't want to sound like an initiator of all this bandwagon, never. I still recognize that my play in those last hours of the lynch was very sloppy. I made a few mistakes trying to push dimmu, and got to a mislynch sadly.... I'd like to hear your opinions of the current DYH case after you finish writing your analysis on me. | ||
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Do you honestly think that we could do something so obvious like that? The case you are presenting it's basically we just changed our vote to Dimmu very fast, supported that we all gave soft reads to each other. You don't have any other evidence that prove this fact except our 'light' comunication, which I don't see the point on it. It's my first game and I know that I'm making a lot of mistakes, like flawed cases and inaccurate reads. Just because I didn't get a good read MG before in the game doesn't mean that he is my scum mate. Same applies to Zelblade. I just can't be giving random reads all the time. About Dimmu, I've already stated why I switched my vote here. If you haven't read it please do it so. | ||
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Don't spam out thread neither. Try to put as much content that you can in each post rather than posting a few lines every 20 minutes. It just not interfere in discussion, but it makes your filter look awkward as well, leading to more cheesy and accusations regarding activity in the thread. I still hold my vote to DYH. Sl0osh does kind of tunnel him though. Sloosh, do you have any other suspicious players? The fastest we can take apart people and reach a lynching consensus in advance, the less we might end up mislynching by a 30 minute switch, like what happened last day. I'm afraid that after lynching DYH, regardless of he flips green or red, we might be in the same situation that we were on day 1, with no clear cases or too many that could risk a no-lynch. | ||
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On February 21 2012 19:49 Steveling wrote: Um, ok regarding my thoughts on trackdoor. You know how I like to find little clues here and there and prove them wrong, right? That's my scumhunting tactic. Well after examining trackdoors filter I found out there's not even one and I mean zero, nada posts with substance. It's 100% fluff. What he likes to do, is correcting other people's gameplay(mine,gums,blades,midnights,echellons, you get the point). Most of his posts are like "Dude I don't like x aspect of your posting, can you do y?" then drops the pressure on his target/s. Way to appear constructive in the most terrible manner there is. He made 3 big posts in this exact manner. + Show Spoiler + On February 18 2012 01:59 trackd00r wrote: Ok, so I've been reading the thread for a while and taken a look to the filters. @jaj22: Regarding in the comparison of those four players in NMM3, Their metagame has been similar so far, with a very few exceptions: -Sloosh has been very aggressive against EcheleonTea after he made an indirect scum claim (not sure if he was kidding still). The discussion lasted quite a bit with lots of attacks against each other. I'm not missing that attitude from sloosh, but I still expect more from him as town, by pulling off cases and encouraging everyone to participate, opposed to pick off a single target and turning it into a semi-heated talk. Helping us by posting the filters (thanks btw) and giving some general advice is nice to hear, but that fight left me with a little drop of doubt. Anyways, I somewhat understand that he was trying to defend from the first claim and in that case, it's the right thing to do. Looking good. -DoyouHas seems to be pointing the town to the right direction: taking the confidence to be the first to post (BUT last newbie mafia the first poster turned to be scum, with the difference that it was just fluff), gathering information and making his stand clear to everyone. Seems very pro town from me, the same way he did it in NMM3. -MidnightGladius has somewhat posted in the begging of the game. However, he does still have that flaw present in the past game, which is to make useless calculations and proportions about the mafia/town ratio. I feel that doesn't really contributes much to the dialogue. His next post have been better though, analyzing and commenting about the Echelon-sloosh clash and the not that succesful plan of gumshoe. I hope he keeps like that. Important to mention that those 3 players had blue roles in NMM3, so looking through their posts in the next days can make a clearer picture of them and their attitude to everything in general. -Zelbalde has only posted once, giving advice to us and apologizing. This was his biggest flaw last game. We know that you are a busy person zelblade, but posting just once is fine, instead of refilling your posts with more 'sorry' and making you either difficult to read or a scum candidate. Well, that's all regarding the past players, but of course we need to take look to the rest... Gumshoe did not had the best start ever in a mafia game. That first post was just flashy and not very elaborated. As Echelon said, it could be interpreted as an attempt to derail the discussion. This thing drew my attention quite a bit: + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + On February 17 2012 11:36 EchelonTee wrote: Show nested quote + I would like it if you divided your walls of text into paragraphs; it took me a few to fathom your post, when I realized you're not saying anything. K very simple I wanted to see if any voting patterns formed within the poll It was like a lynch simulator But less than 12 people have voted in the pole therefore any conjecture regarding any mafia patterns is at the moment useless. Because it's possible that none of the mafia voted given that town thinks the poll is stupid and just posted on it randomly or trolingly. Discredit it until theres twelve votes or just discredit it period if you so please. That is all. That ridiculously excessive action regarding to divide your text into paragraphs makes you look fell very uncomfortable and desperate to get out of that situation. I'll take your plan as a newbie mistake, but that last post can draw suspicion... In my opinion, we should take a look at Steveling posts: + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + On February 17 2012 10:50 gumshoe wrote: Hi everybody! Im the friendly neighbourhood gum on your shoe! Today I come to you with a plan that'll hopefully shed some light on the certainly vile nature of the scum infesting our sacred house...OF GAMBLING! The plan is a simple anonymous poll asking wether your a townie or a scumie. Now in the case of the townie there is no risk whatsoever in voting townie, on acounta a) you are a townie and b) no one can say otherwise cause your voting anonymously. In fact I very much so ask that you don't say which one your voting for or wether or not your even voting at all. All I ask is that if you're a townie vote townie, or don't vote, please don't troll and say your mafia I REPEAT NO TOWNIES VOTE MAFIA, IT SHALL BE THE END OF US ALL!!!!!! This only works if all the townies voting vote townie so please do so if your a townie. If your mafia feel free to vote as well, in fact the whole purpose of this exercise is to see if you as a group abstain from voting, vote as you please, or all vote townie. This is an experiment to study the mafia and I promise to only do this once, so whata ya say newcomers! Watcha gonna be? I'd just likely to repeat one last time there is ABSOLUTELY no way I or anyone else can ascertain your alignment through this vote, so please give it a shot, it might very well teach us something useful. Poll: Anonymous vote: are YOU mafia? Mafioso (16) 80% Townie (4) 20% 20 total votes Your vote: Anonymous vote: are YOU mafia? (Vote): Townie (Vote): Mafioso I loled soo hard reading this. As for me, I played one more game of mafia, but it was the biggest fail human kind has ever witnessed. There were 80 players in it, and it ended with the scum offering a draw, cause the city was that bad, T_T. I was a towny needless to say. Here's the link, http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=285690 I think I'm with jaj on the lurker lynching. Since unless some serious slips happen it's our best bet for scumhunt. + Show Spoiler + On February 17 2012 11:25 jaj22 wrote: + Show Spoiler + @Gumshoe: Did you get some RL buddies to spam your own vote, just in case it was accidentally useful? @Steveling: I see you lynched Palmar on your first day. Not the greatest start to a mafia career. Fortunately we don't have any awesome scumhunting veterans in this game. Or mayors. Yeah, that was ...unfortunate, Q_Q. But, I did have the best scumreads based on clues in that game. Well that was all I could do so I spent a lot of time into these. Also in my defense all the towny veterans where cockfighting each other so it was impossible for a newbie to tell who was what. + Show Spoiler + On February 17 2012 11:55 gumshoe wrote: Show nested quote + + Show Spoiler + I apologize as well. This was just a random shot to start off the night, I mean theres really nothing to discuss until something happens and it beats just randomly accusing people, but ill try not to do something like this again... for this game at least! Just an idea, if you want this to work in future games, I think you need to post a clarifying post before the poll-post, something like a preemptive strike, so you get full cooperation from townies and state the purpose. For example, I voted scum on the poll before I even read it just to troll, T_T. There is barely anything helpful on those posts. Not really contributing . I expect you to post more or my suspicion to you will rise. That's it for the moment. I'll be checking again the thread in a couple of hours. My absence in the past is just sleeping. As may notice, my time is roughly the same as EST, so I'll be up for deadlines and lynches. And sorry for the bad formatting @ spoilers >.< I'll PM a mod later so I get some help lol On February 18 2012 06:28 trackd00r wrote: I'm sorry Steveling, but I definitely think that no-lynch is no no. We are not close to night. We've only had played for 21 hours and that's less than half of the time. We still have plenty of time to build a strong case on anyone. There have been several stances where we could gather information and I know that we can use it to push out a lynch. If it turns out mafia, great. If not, we will see the bandwagons and those who are dodging the cases to make a good and hopefully successful lynch in the second day. Well, you have posted much more content than you did it on your previous post, but I insist, I disagree with a no-lynch. Gumshoe, sometimes I think that you are going more pro-town, but in some other instances I just don't understand your intentions. Even you manage to contradict your self: With this, I really want to make you think more carefully about you post. You say that Steveling has contributed to the discussion, when he actually didn't really at that point (he even loled at your poll) and then you suddenly realize deeper into the game that he hasn't commented much? I'm letting of the suspicion of you but please, please, think carefully every post you make. Instead of replaying to every post, try to start a case or at least draw your lynch candidates in a clear way. I swear that I can't even understand some of your posts, and not only to me, but all the town right here. For the moment, i'm lifting my suspicions about you and Steve I need to keep checking the filters and try to build up a strong case. There have been a lot of situations going on here and I'm starting to lose focus >_<. Expect more posting from me, I will. On February 18 2012 11:39 trackd00r wrote: I can't explain how tiring is to re-read like 5 times every filter. I haven't thought of a good case yet but some posts are revealing alignments and behaviors of each of you. I have no other option that expressing me my reads. Let's start Steveling: For a moment, I thought that you would have a more cooperative attitude towards the thread, but the only post which I've seen of content is this one: After that, you only attacked gumshoe, targeting mannerkiss with no reason whatsoever and post content less posts regarding lynches + random fluff. I'm expecting a lot more of you. You have been reading the thread long enough to build some accusations. EchelonTee: What's with the over aggressive and 'flashy' way of posting? I thought that after your talk vs sl0osh your posting style could have changed, but instead you post short lines which clearly lack a basis. My suspicion towards is raising because we don't need these kind of posting here. It looks like you want to work by your own. I hardly see any attempt of trying to lead the town to a healthy discussion. Instead, you are creating a confusing atmosphere to us. What is your plan? Which are your goals? Your intentions are not very clear... Probably the most confusing thing you did in the whole game is jump to vote at MG just after jaj22 opened a case against him. Seriously? No reasoning? Not any argument behind? Please, take a look to his behavior. I find it really scum and definitely NOT pro-town. This also applies to your earlier stand against sl0osh. MidnightGladius: You are in the very edge of what I consider constructive posting and what is just repeating what others said. I look you more to the path of constructiveness, but I'm expecting more about you. Your posting was slightly better in NMM3, although limited still (you were vig that game). Be a little more aggressive, but that's all. DimmuKlok: Please post more. You have only targeted the most obvious players at that moment. Also your 1st and 2nd were very fluffy. If you don't contribute more you will get targeted. Alderan: He looks very town for me at least. You made your stand clear from the start and you are pressuring Dimmu. Looks very neat so far. Mannerkiss: When you get back home, you'd better have good reads/accusations because your absence is really hurting us. Your semi analysis in your last post targets common players as well. I want to see more. jaj22: I don't have a clear picture of you yet You have been replying a fair amount of posts and looking forward information. I wouldn't vote for MG that early though, but it's up to you and we'll see how things come into the light after some hours. blae000: Perhaps you've only have made a few posts, but they are good quality ones. He looks to have good intentions. I would like to read more about him though. TWhawkins This has been his only contribution so far: We need to hear more. Please, don't be shy. Come with some accusations. Your posts somewhat seem to you to look interested, but your post count says to opposite. Janaan: Hard to read. He has good intentions and makes good points, but I still i want to hear more from him. Looking forward to his posts. gumshoe: OK i'll be honest with this one. Many times when I saw his posts, i just the feeling to grab my laptop and smash to the ground. I'm pretty sure that everyone is conscious of this posts and ideas. He has been slowing down the posting for a while and in fact has given good well developed opinions against jaj and somewhat to MG. Anyways, that drama we saw in the first hours didn't really made a good organized discussion later on. I'm glad that your are calming down, gum. DoYouHas Very active, pointing good posts and having a very good analysis in his posts. A very good town read from him. sl0osh Your posts have been more concrete after the clash with ET. You are slowly getting to that style I loved about you back in NMM3. I'm expecting you to build a very good solid case in the future. That would be it. I really want to see EchelonTee with more productive and well developed posts. His individualism in this thread make me feels he has the most scummy behavior. I'll wait to your response before I cast my vote, specially the one regarding the MG jumping. Then he voted Echellon. Look at his "reasoning". Yup, that's all. He basically accuses someone because his play is "flashy". He later jumped on the DYH wagon. His reasoning was once again weak. Him defending gum was indeed weird. But defending himself from sloosh aggressive play? What's the fuzz about that? Sounds more like something he made up to make his case look bigger. Next in the line of non contributing posts is the following + Show Spoiler + On February 20 2012 12:23 trackd00r wrote: I think it's time I have to catch the thread again. Personally, I'm not convinced with MidnightGladius case. I don't agree with the reasoning that jaj and ET gave. I'm not going to get into details about that, since we need to focus in other targets that don't create chaos. Alderan is lurking quite heavily now. And I need to say it. He has been one of the least contributors in this game so far. I have the feeling that he is just watching the thread, and watching us bash each other. + Show Spoiler + On February 18 2012 02:01 Alderan wrote: Hi guys, excited to get started. Ok so here are just my thoughts as I read through the thread (going to be pretty peacemeal as I catch up): As for my experience, most recently I played in SNMMIV as scum. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=232826 And before that I played a Vanilla towny in http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=227500. I've also read a couple games all the way through I see that next we entered the obligatory Lurker Lynch policy discussion so I will throw in my $.02. We need to approach this in a way where lurkers know they will get lynched if they do not post. Our philosophy should be that someone who is blatantly lurking WILL get lynched unless of these 2 situations happens. 1. Adequate involvement from everyone. I have seen town get so focused on lynching a lurker that when that person becomes active the bandwagon has already started rolling so fast downhill that there's no stopping it. That person ends up being town more often than not. 2. There is an obvious scum slip or we can identify someone almost assuredly as scum. Let's make sure we don't hit a blue in our insistence on lynching someone day 1, if the obvious choice is not there, it's not there. That will be decided much closer to the end of the voting period though. Stay diligent. This poll is comical. I still fail to see the reasoning behind it. While discussion is good, let's not go round and round about that, almost no substantive value to be had. More worrisome than the poll is how quick to the gun ET was. Without formally FoSing, in my opinion you have already semi-accused DoYouHaas, Sloosh, and gumshoe. Do you stand any of these at all? If so which is the most scummy? I don't like it, and by it I mean blasting away with the accuse cannon nonstop. We need to hear from Mannerkiss again definitely. Gumshoe you're absolutely correct about Midnight Gladius's ratio post. What is the easiest way to "contribute" without actually contributing anything thats not common knowledge? Speculate about the setup/discuss the ratios and KP, and inactive lists. Those things are not inherently scummy, but they must be followed up with additional contributions. This first reminded me a lot of Zarepath's first post in NMM3, where he turned to be scum. Starts off with a fluffy hypothetical talk about what happens if X situation occurs. Then it goes on and makes the obvious remarks: The poll, ET vs sloosh and calling out manner kiss. Notice how he is just checking the thread. Then his next 2 posts are about gumshoe. Nothing really worthy to add to the discussion. Then it goes this case against Dimmu. It's ok, a lurker, everyone can be suspicious about (even I did). But that's not the point. I would've expected to vote him right away to put some pressure. Instead he just waited to other chaos to set in to cast his vote, when everyone was having different suspicions in other people. He addresses other players in a very shallow way. His opinions to ET and gum were very light IMO. If you think that just writing a case in the easiest case and posting everyone 5-6 hours is going to work, you are wrong. What do you think about the MidnightGladius case? Or DoYouHas'? FOS: Alderan I'll give you the bulletins of it. First he states his opinion on Midnights case He doesn't agree with the reasoning... Cause providing a sufficient explanation for your actions is not hip anymore, he just doesn't agree with it. And if you take into account Mattchew's post connecting them, it makes perfect sense that he would just drop midnights case for no reason. Next he accuses Alderan of lurking. Justified? Maybe. Easy? Hell yes. His last posts are him defending from Mattchew. So zero town worth as well. These are all of his posts. Not even a 2nd page in his filter. He tries to appear usefull while toying around. If you take this post and mattchews case I think the picture is pretty clear at least about him. We just have to find out how many more from Mattchew's remaining 3 are scum. Remember we might have missed some. OK, i'll give my words: 1) Where you stated that my posts were mostly "Dude I don't like x aspect of your posting, can you do y?", I don't see what's wrong on it. I mean, mafia is a game where you need to prove the other people are lying, isn't it? The way I'm trying to accomplish (which hasn't been that successful I must say) is by expressing my thoughts in people's post and telling them to post in a way that doesn't create chaos or WIFOMs, so we can analyze them better. For example, at the start, gumshoe's posts were chaotic and rushed. I thought that It couldn't be a pro-town play if he kept doing them, as I told him to hold back. Then went he started to make more readable and coherent posts, I dropped my suspicion upon him. I could read him better or see any behavior that seemed scummy. This applies to any other player that I gave my opinion. Even If they didn't follow my advice or else, I could watch them better. 2) My suspicion against ET was just not because he had a flashy style, it was because it THAT moment he didn't provide any case to MG and it seemed to just jump into jaj's bandwagon. Plus, we was being overly aggressive to players like slo0sh and making a set of kind of spammy replies to everyone else. That's what I considered that wasn't pro-town play, since in that moment I thought he just wanted to create chaos on the thread. After he made finally case and started posting better, in the sense that was broadly understandable and with a direction, I dropped my suspicion. Even though I his case didn't convince him, I don't think he is scum by now. 3) The DYH case is something that I actually took my time to read and analyze. Yea, the gum thing wasn't clear. The way that he was going back & forth with sl0osh was suspicious. In NMM3, he had a more active role and making reads and cases early in the game and wasn't distracted so easily to single players. His weird change of posting style is something what I was starting to worry about. I should read that game and see how he posts in the 1st day. ET went more in-depth about that topic a few posts ago. And I repeat, the sl0osh part was important because the way he dropped his leadership style posting to argue with sl0osh is something to worry about. And not only in my case, but in many others. 4) You say that making a case against someone is not contributing to the discussion. I fail to see why. 5) Now if you want I can say why I'm not convinced with MG case. - The way that jaj' jumped into him: On February 18 2012 09:31 jaj22 wrote: Ok, screw it. I'm making a case. It looks that he would do that just for the sake of posting. - The reasoning behind. At first, it was basically like 'oh, he is doing what everyone else has done, so that might be scum.' - He just trying to be very transparent with his posts. Some points that ET and jaj22 gave were that he was comparing gum's play to FakePromise. I didn't see any wrong in that situation, since that game FP wasn't posting substantially. On the other hand, gum was, and his intentions could have been interpreted in a better way to push a case. - His meta has been similar to NMM3. I don't really see any change in his posting style like I did with DYH. I'm not going to overdefend him neither. I gave some general points and I think it's enough. 6) The reason that I don't have a 2nd page on my filter is because I try to make my posts with the most content I can put, compared to other players. There have been some exceptions though. If you see some people with 3 pages of filters, you can see that half of their posts are with single points or replaying to simple questions. As a note, I know that I haven't played good now. I don't know what could be the reason why. Perhaps it's the pressure, or my use of English that mane times limits myself to shorter responses. I feel that I'm not giving the best of me this game. I can't fall back though. I'm re-reading the thread so I can give more thoughts now. I didn't mean to be a lurker. Neither I want to become one. | ||
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1) The way that he misspelled his vote to DimmuKlok. You had a lot of trouble trying to get it right didn't you? On February 19 2012 08:57 TKHawkins wrote: Bah accidentally deleted my post because I was flipping through various windows. ##unvote: EchelonTee While I don't completely believe his read on Midnight enough to vote for Midnight, Ech at least followed through with his word and eventually gave a reason (abiet, giving people like me very little time left to change our votes). ##Vote DimmunKlok He's the best candidate we got right now. On February 19 2012 08:59 TKHawkins wrote: #voteDimmuKlok sorry mispell On February 19 2012 08:59 TKHawkins wrote: bahh ##vote DimmuKlok The thing I see strange is that at first, you didn't have any problems unvoting ET. You formatted the vote just fine. Then you had a typo at your vote. When you tried to correct it the first time, you did a mistake that it could have been easily avoided as you unvoted ET in one twink. I'm starting to think that your scum team told you to misspell the vote to add an enormous state of pressure in these last minutes, not only once, but twice, with the goal of checking who was active and who was nervous of a no lynch to occur, to then preparing their decisions to who kill/watch for. Some people (including me) jumped to correct your mistake. One of the most active on those minutes was the recently shot jaj 22. That's why I think you had intention behind those typos. 2) In your last post, you expressed your thoughts on me in a very unnecessary context, which was me, you, zel and MG being targeted. You jumped into your defense with soft points to zel and MG, but regarding my posts, it was a quite long. I've been noticing this. Why do you think I'm the most pro-town player with only supporting this fact with 3 posts? There are other players out there who are preforming way better than me. I'm leaning toward the idea that your sucm team, again, is telling you to buddy me even more to prove mattchew's point even more and pushing me more to a scum candidate the next days. I find this behavior very weird. I think mafia are using Tkhawkins, one of this shiest and lurkish members, to stir the pot without putting them into the spotlight. What do you think? | ||
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It's just sad I can say. What did I failed to do? Was my inactivity sometimes? Was because I couldn't get decent reads in some players? Was it because I pushed a mislynch? Or 2 now with DYH? Don't get me wrong. I'm having a great time playing mafia with you guys. Whatever I do the right choices or not, It's just something that I'm enjoying right now. I'm trying to put a lot of effort playing, but it seems that all this effort is not worth, according to many players have commented about my reads and cases. I admit the fact that I really didn't take a main or important role since the start. I was very afraid of committing any mistakes or speculations that could have ended up being dead by now. I left the more experienced players to take the lead of the discussion, while I slowly faded away in the mist of laborious analysis and replies from other cases. Sometimes, I read up the thread and I couldn't decide which stance to take, or which path to follow, without bashing my head to the walls wondering what repercussion would have on me. I tried to go in ET, but with his solid defense then I was not just convinced that he is town, but the fact that I'm practically being outplayed by nearly everyone else. This left a huge void of frustration inside me. Then, I switched my vote quite fast in Dimmulok to prevent a no-lynch. Again, thinking myself it was the right decision to make. The next day, however, I was bombarded with cases regarding a coordinated bandwagon with other 3 players. Then, I was not just frustrated again, but now a huge light dazzled over me, painting me of color red. I defended myself. Still no ones really looks what was happening and take the case as done. Now, I'm on a path to being lynched, with people keeping an eye for every little thing and detail I do. What really annoys me is how Mattchew threw the case, named a few people and just got the ball rolling. Just in 15 minutes he already convinced a couple of players of my supposed scummisness. A case with no substance and rushed at it's best is now changing the stance of the game. I still agree with some of his views in other players, but the way he presented the analysis was something I didn't expect to see in a mafia, comparing them with what I've seen. Mattchew, now you can be saying ' ohhh how cute he is defending himself' or 'you just waited for MG to post something to show up' or something like that. Ok, what can I do? You've already have a quite amount of people following your reasoning and it seems that I'm unable to get out of this situation. Go on then. No matter what happens, I will vote for Tkhawkins the next day. I disliked the way that he and this team pushed for a candidate of being scum. You just don't buddy someone that suspiciously. There's got to be something behind it (I know that steveling or Matt think that I'm bussing anyways). You couldn't pull out a card more nastier than this, could you? For those who want to learn about this claim, just look my filter. I'm tired that people don't want to look up my links going to the points I mentioned in some occasions. So that's it, sorry If I failed you town. Sorry If I didn't contribute enough. Sorry If I couldn't build up my post to a high level that this game requires it. I still going to vote for someone, since this is not over yet. Go ahead and say what you want. Or take this post as a desperation to defend myself and lynch a townie. | ||
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Because you are not playing in a way that is comfortable to everyone. I'm not talking about the game itself, I'm talking about your attitude. Do you think that spamming 'busbusbusbus' or labeling any situation as retarded is going to fit in the game? meta meta meta meta meta meta meta meta meta meta meta meta meta meta meta meta meta meta meta meta meta meta meta meta what do i think? your bussing your teammate WOOOOOO bus bus bus bus bus bus bus bus bus bus bus bus bus bus bus bus bus bus bus bus bus bus bus bus bus bus bus bus bus bus bus bus bus bus bus bus bus bus bus bus bus bus bus bus bus bus bus bus bus bus bus hey guess what guys... 3 of the 4 (TK, Zel, and Track) all used the SAME EXACT RETARDED "READS FORMAT" as each other Believe or not, you are testing our patience. Just looking what happened to gum at the start. If we didn't tell him to post more coherently or using better formatting, he might have been lynched or modkilled simply. You don't realize it. You are making people leave. TKhawkins is not quitting the game because you nailed it with your case, he is quitting because you are making him feel uncomforable. I wouldn't drop the option of leaving though, but as I'm probably being lynched, I don't think that it's of much of an use. | ||
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Sloosh, what do you think about our mislynch? You seemed to be so confident about lynching DYH. Do you have any thoughts regarding that? What about Alderan's case? Do you still support it after DYH flipped green? I'm wondering what will happen to Hawk. Is he leaving? If that's the case, I'll wait for the replacement to post before I cast any votes. | ||
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On February 23 2012 04:20 gumshoe wrote: Ok, I saw this exact same thing out of Zell, track I am this close to disregarding every single thing that comes out of your mouth, LOOK AT MY CASE ON HAWK, if you want to defend hawk in any way address it head on, don't skirt around it just because hawk said he's leaving, my case does not hinge on hawk leaving, though that is actually a pretty helpful piece of rage quit that suggests the accusations against him may have been too much for him to handle. Also if hawk is not on the menu then how about zell? What do you think of him? Uh, I think I didn't express myself correctly with that post What I said is to wait if someone was going to replace him. If not, it would have been the removal of one player, since there are not any back up as I looked OP. In that case, it would be no point of voting for him I will vote for him he is goes on. Here is why. I just don't feel like exhausting the case any further. At the rate we are going, he will be lynched next day. But I insist that TK is probably being manipulated by his team mates by the way he is playing. This means that there has to be any kind of mastermind trying to direct his actions, like for example MidnightGladius. I've re-read DYH case on him and then looked at your defense to Matt, and I think things are making more sense now. I'll post my thoughts about MG in a while. As for zelblade, I can't get a good read of him. Checking his filter. Even though, Mattchew reads town for me. My disapproval to his earlier posts was mostly because the way he presented the case and made it's presence. Now that I'm more calm, I actually see a very good guess he is making. Maybe perhaps there is more than a reason that TK is RQing. I agree with his town reads, and I'm happy with the fact that he is constantly pushing his cases. If this continues, he can easily control the flow of the thread and can leave the mafia exposed. | ||
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By the way, what's your view on alderan? And as a side note: rgTheSchworz where the hell are you? | ||
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I'm not in the best shape to discuss, but this is what is going to happen. We are 4/6 mafia/town right now. There are two possible ways for the mafia to win this game right now. 1) Rushing and hoping to kill a townie at night 3. When they see a no-way-back target to lynch, they will jump to it and just wait for the kill. They'll try to keep all their effort to secure the mis lynch by leaving the target unable to defend himself back, such as ignoring any alternative candidates or keeping the focus closed. If they choose this way to end, surely they will be very active for a while, and suddenly escape out of the radar when they accomplished their goal. 2) Waiting an(-) extra day(s). Why do they do that you would ask? Mafia can't easily pull off their votes to a single target when there are multiple cases. The sudden jump on one of them will draw a notorious amount of suspicion by us and leave them exposed. So, they'll try to extend their voting range to many suspects with the following goals: a) Not providing a proper direction to lynches. b) Causing a no-lynch in order to disorganize us even more. c) Leaving them with a cleaner background when switching votes the following days. With this plan, they will probably be depending of night kills, so the medic in this case is crucial. 3) Sacrificing one of their members this night. It will give them credibility to push their agendas to secure a mislynch the next day, granted they made a successful kill the night before. I think that this possibility is the less probable to happen. I feel that we need to watch out for every dangerous behavior present here that we can be facing. In (1) is constant pressure by them trying to get a lynch. In (2), it would be undecided voters and unclear opinions. (3) would be simply trying to find scumslips and contradictions. Well, those are my thoughts right now. Comments? Oh wait. I forgot how many of you are convinced that I'm mafia, so I'm not expecting a good feedback from all this. sigh. | ||
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I think that zelblade, Steveling and Alderan are scum What bugs me about zel and steve are that they accused me in the say way, which was targeting my safe play. They don't look at any other aspects, such as any bandwagons or other situations that could cause conflict. I'll go more on detail. Look zelblade thoughts about Steve: On February 23 2012 22:16 zelblade wrote: Steveling is someone I have had a "enthuastic new townie" read on for quite a while. I still feel that this is the case, although his actions could easily be explained if he were to be scum. Process of elimination suggests to me that he has a rather high chance of flipping scum. Since im very sure that trackdoor is scum though, I still feel that he is town. He basically said that Steveling was town because I'm mafia. He actually points that he has a rather high chance for him to being mafia, but no. He automatically treated him as town just because of me. He points no other reason. Doesn't that seem a little suspicious? And alderan: On February 23 2012 22:16 zelblade wrote: Alderan is another player that had given me town vibes with his inital posts. However, since then, he has gone lurk lurk quite a bit, posting very little content. I dont think that being against the DYH lynch adds any town points since he could easily be scum looking to gain some town cred. I also didnt really like his vote analysis as I felt that it was pretty inconclusive, although it is something to add against track. Could flip scum. Again, same thing happens. He raises suspicion upon until he uses my name and and magically he uses that to give him a little more of credibility. He thinks that his points against me (which he already stated that is an easy case) are enough to counter weight the the vote analysis that he mentioned to finally give to a null/probably scum read. This is his case against me: + Show Spoiler + On February 23 2012 21:13 zelblade wrote: So it seems that vig shot has pushed us to MYLO. Well at the very least this shows us that mattchew's case is weak. I have read through the thread and various filters and I still think that trackd00r is definately our best option today. Trackdoor doesnt have any strong reads, nor does he actively push them. Looking through his filter, one can easily see that he has been sheeping all game long. He starts out by getting onto the ET wagon based on his "flashy and agressive" attitude. Afterwards, during the minutes leading up to the day 1 lynch, he propses Dimmuklok - using Aldrean's accusations as his base - as an alternative targert since we apparently couldnt get a lynch on either MG or ET. He than accuses DYH, before throwing out a weak (and never followed up) FOS on Aldrean, than goes back to voting for DoYouHas. After that he goes on to accuse hawkins after the mattchew case comes up. Look through his filter and you will notice that all his accusations are really SAFE. He hasnt called out anyone for anything unless someone else has already done it. He says that he doesnt like ET's behaviour, but only votes after I have done so. His pick for a day 1 lynch is a safe lurker. He pushes DYH day 2 after pretty much everyone has decided to lynch him. He FOS's Aldrean only after MG's case. He attacks hawkins only after mattchew's case. Even in there, he selects the easiest targert among the four - the one under the most scrunity - TKHawkins. Not to mention that his case is really weak, and even his read on Hawkins isnt a hard one. Notice how his only scum read coming into day 3 is Hawkins. This is proof that he hasnt been actively hunting scum. Just look at this post for example. What he has here is simple. He has one scum read on Hawkins, and feels that MG could be a "mastermind" due to his interactions with hawkins. He is null on me. Town on Matt. Why, as town, would he have only ONE scum read coming into day 3? Why, as town, hasnt he been actively hunting down scum? Why is he being so flip-floppy about his reads? Notice how he promises his thoughts on MG and to read my filter. Notice how these thoughts never come. Instead, what has he done with his remaining time? Its goddammed MYLO and hes a viable lynch candidate. Why, is he not trying his best to prove his innocence at this point by getting his thoughts out? Instead, lets take a look at his gem of a last post. What is the townie motivation - especially one on the chopping block at MYLO - to posting this? Instead of getting his suspisions out there, he goes ahead to discuss the ways mafia can win....? There is zero motivation for a townie who was on the road to getting mislynched and losing the game because of it to post something like this. Once again, I dont see why a townie at this stage would have the time to type up a load of crap regarding mafia stratergy yet not be able to make any sort of subsantial case against anyone. The numerous cases against trackd00r also add on to the fact that trackd0or is scum. Which is also why he gets my vote for today. ##Vote: trackd00r He says that I'm playing really safe and not actively trying to hunt scum. While this can be true at some extent, he has forgotten that I was one of the pushers of ET case along with him, blae and MG. It didn't materialize, but find that he doesn't recognizes my intentions with a lynch he wanted to get through. Regarding this accusation as well, he adds that the numerous cases that are around support my case. The only one I've seen were Steveling's and Mattchew, and he already said that Mattchew's case was horrible before: On February 22 2012 17:47 zelblade wrote: Mattchew's case is horrible. For those that think that all 4 of his scumteam are scum, read through it again. Do you really think that it is strong? Do you really think that it holds any basis? The links between us are, I emphasise non-exsistant. This is also why I believe that Mattchew is scum - and his recent posts have been shitting on the town atmosphere. Do you really think a townie would do that? Dont you find Mitchy's sureness of DYH flipping green suspisious? As well dismissed it as weak just before starting my accusations. On February 23 2012 21:13 zelblade wrote: So it seems that vig shot has pushed us to MYLO. Well at the very least this shows us that mattchew's case is weak. I find this very contradictory. I'm worried that he hasn't expressed this thoughts on Alderan this well. He has been playing with pretty much of the same flaws that I've been, and yet he can't make a solid read like mine. Overall I don't like the way he has been trying to push my case and how sees other as town because they think the same. Mafia has to think the same to win this game right? Now about Steveling. He had been suspicious about gum for a long time, and he suddenly lifted it without any reason. You started to address him as you didn't have any blood on him. Could you explain that? He approached his suspicions against me very awkwardly and in a blink of an eye. On February 21 2012 10:07 Steveling wrote: Shiiiiiiat Mattchew! You might have done it, lol. I'll drop my janaan research and start one on trackdoor since he's the one with the less posts iirc. Considering what I find and how the cases on the others subjects go I might even withdraw my DYH vote. I still think he's scummy but we might find more damning evidence on these guys. So, tomorrow morning-noon I'll post. He suddenly drop his research about Janaan and jump in me, just because I was the one with the least posts. What about blae in that point (or rg). There is a reason why he compliments Mattchew case against me and 3 other people in the same post that he will start a case. He probably waited for other person to point a finger so he could make his own conclusions. Then he made a case about me. Here is my response to that. He pushes the case in a very uncomfortable way. And what do you think of trackdoor? It's like everyone is avoiding him. Please share. Regarding your hawkings case gum I agree. What do you think about my trackdoor one? Woah nice find. How did I miss it in my case on him, T_T. Well with all these new elements his case is now stronger even than Hawkings' lol. He is trying to give himself so much credibility because he made a case against me, when actually are other people who were pointing more evidence. Now he is totally confident that either me or TK are going to be lynched next. Then, he started a discussion with sl0osh. I thought you said you wanted to go to bed. On February 23 2012 10:39 Steveling wrote: Ima gonna sleep now as well, you americans take over pls, be active and share. On February 23 2012 12:36 Steveling wrote: What happened to 1 lynch at a time. Just hours ago everyone thought of it like a gospel. Guess what changed with the double town killing tonight. Nothing. That's right. There are still four scum. We still have two solid cases. It's 5am now but the worse thing is, I feel like nothing good came out of it. Cya tomorrow. Two hours passed since then. If you are so confident about my lynch and TK's, I don't see any reason to drag a discussion for more time with an unworrying situation like yours. Yes, I know we are at MYLO, but you seem to be looking sl0osh as a threat if you sacrificed extra time of your precious sleep, rather than dismissing the situation later. Could it be that he might be interfering with your intentions to push another mislynch on me? Now alderan. As you know, he has been very very lurkish these days. It's midweek, and I was expecting that he can show up more, as he stated before: On February 20 2012 03:40 Alderan wrote: I've got work today till 7 or 8 EST (weekdays are much better for me than weekends in terms of activity). Yet, I haven't seen much about him. He promised to do reads of me. These claims never materialized though. My next post will be analysis of Trapd00r, which should give us a nudge in the right direction about which of these cases happened. Trackd00r- Will post analysis in the next couple of hours, I'm afraid to clog up the thread prior to the vote though. So it might be at night or the beginning of day 3. Your absence has been really weird. When you post your case against me, you better not repeat some of the same obvious points that Steve and Zel have claimed, since I suppose you have been watching me from long before. It's that not the case, chances are that those two players already did the job for you. I was already suspicions about him before, and this adds up very well. Now, you all would ask, why you only focus in people accusing you? Because that's what we are risking, another mislynch. I'm pointing these facts to warn you that they are pushing hard to lynch me as a way to finish this game, when yet their arguments against me are not really convincing. I repeat, I'm trying to prevent a mislynch, and If I can afford a luxury, convince you that those 3 players are scum, which I'm pretty sure they are. ET, gumshoe, Matt, Sl0osh, what do you think about this? | ||
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On February 24 2012 03:44 Alderan wrote: Let's look at Trackd00r's only post since last nigh's debacle.... + Show Spoiler + On February 23 2012 11:04 trackd00r wrote: Oh God... What a nightmare... I'm not in the best shape to discuss, but this is what is going to happen. We are 4/6 mafia/town right now. There are two possible ways for the mafia to win this game right now. 1) Rushing and hoping to kill a townie at night 3. When they see a no-way-back target to lynch, they will jump to it and just wait for the kill. They'll try to keep all their effort to secure the mis lynch by leaving the target unable to defend himself back, such as ignoring any alternative candidates or keeping the focus closed. If they choose this way to end, surely they will be very active for a while, and suddenly escape out of the radar when they accomplished their goal. 2) Waiting an(-) extra day(s). Why do they do that you would ask? Mafia can't easily pull off their votes to a single target when there are multiple cases. The sudden jump on one of them will draw a notorious amount of suspicion by us and leave them exposed. So, they'll try to extend their voting range to many suspects with the following goals: a) Not providing a proper direction to lynches. b) Causing a no-lynch in order to disorganize us even more. c) Leaving them with a cleaner background when switching votes the following days. With this plan, they will probably be depending of night kills, so the medic in this case is crucial. 3) Sacrificing one of their members this night. It will give them credibility to push their agendas to secure a mislynch the next day, granted they made a successful kill the night before. I think that this possibility is the less probable to happen. I feel that we need to watch out for every dangerous behavior present here that we can be facing. In (1) is constant pressure by them trying to get a lynch. In (2), it would be undecided voters and unclear opinions. (3) would be simply trying to find scumslips and contradictions. Well, those are my thoughts right now. Comments? Oh wait. I forgot how many of you are convinced that I'm mafia, so I'm not expecting a good feedback from all this. sigh. Sure it's all WIFOM, but let's look past that.... There's nothing about these hypothetical situations that are relevant to us in my eyes. The task is on us. We have to identify one of the 4 scum, and put 5 of our votes on them, which will force the scum to vote for their own or be readily identified. No use making it more confusing than it is, in a time that is already going to be exceedingly hectic for us. Is that all? I thought you had a more elaborated case against me. You said that 3 days ago. I would like to see that. | ||
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I've read the sloosh vs Mattchew argument, and In my opinion both players lean town. They are not trying to win this game as mafia jumping to an easy target to mislynch. Instead, they try to point alternatives which is game is going for. I think sl0osh would tunnel up to death to some of the best candidates like TK, but instead, has chosen to pressure and eventually vote for Steveling. Then he goes to Mattchew. He is opening up new posibilities, something that we really need in this MYLO situation. As for mattchew, he recognized that he didn't do good reads and such. He says that he will play better and re-evaluate his intentions, what is something good I must say. His play and the results that we were getting of out this before were a huge blow for us, and now that he is willing to change his actions, I don't see why would he let this fade away as scum. He did this claim just after sl0osh accused him though, so I'm not convinced 100% he is town. This is just preliminary and it's what I'm looking at the moment. | ||
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This TK situation has been eating me from the inside. I think I just waited enough to him to show up. Since everyone seems to consider him as mod killed now, I don't really see a point voting for him. Why Mattchew admitted the mistakes he did just after sl0osh pressured him and Steveling? It would have been more reasonable to do that just after DYH lynch or the terrible mess of night 2. I just don't know. This uprising of Mattchew's case is leaving me more blind than before. I really want to lynch Steveling though. I just don't see how dramatically went to sl0osh after he made a call to him. Alderan could be another option. I find weird that in he didn't really made a case against me after he claimed to do so twice, and the other thing he comes is my first D3 post. I was expecting something bigger by then. Why it didn't materialize? And btw Alderan, why are you so sure that TK will post? I'm going to vote for Steveling for the moment meanwhile I consider the whole Matt thing ##vote: Steveling | ||
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##Unvote: Steveling | ||
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On February 25 2012 05:48 slOosh wrote: How can you guys even consider a possibility that both ET and I are scum? Mafia need one mislynch to seal the deal. Think about it: We were the ones originally strongly opposed to the TKHawkins and trackd00r lynch. If we were both scum and one of them town, it would have been done deal to lynch them as there support from Mattchew, Steveling, Alderan, gumshoe and zelblade. If we were all scum, then it could be seen trying to save our buddies. But then you have to be ready to accept that out of all the cases we could have pushed, we pushed Mattchew. There is absolutely no reason why scum team requiring one last mislynch would choose one of the least suspected people. That's exactly I've been thinking this whole time. I didn't want to highlight this claim before, since I was afraid that some players could shut down my in a flash. Thank you for pointing it out. That's why I don't really want to vote for ET. ##vote: Mattchew | ||
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By the way Zelblade, I've read your reply to my read on you. You covered most points, but you didn't address your logic on getting town reads from Alderan and Steveling in that moment. Could you tell me why? | ||
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Sorry If I almost ragequitted then before, I was in a total loss of motivation. Maybe my last reads were right, but I didn't have the balls to push them as it seemed. Steveling and zelblade did a very good job at pressuring me I think. But it was indeed fun. | ||
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