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On February 08 2012 02:30 layabout wrote:+ Show Spoiler [a bit off-topic] +Hit that?![[image loading]](http://mail.is/palmar/derp.jpg) Poll: Do you want to hit that?Define "hit that" (3) 75% Yes (1) 25% No (0) 0% Since he often trolls day1 and is potentially a valuable town asset likely to die n1or n2, no (0) 0% 4 total votes Your vote: Do you want to hit that? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): Since he often trolls day1 and is potentially a valuable town asset likely to die n1or n2, no
(Vote): Define "hit that"
If it's a lurker you want to lynch Tyrran might be a good choice.
I already said I never played with Tyrran didn't I? I don't like lynching lurkers unless I have to. And if I have to I'm going for lurkers I know are capable to play this game in the first play. If that's not possible I'm gladly lynching someone who's lurking and I never played with.
Why are you defending hiro so much? It's not like I said I want to lynch him right now. He's something like #5 in my prioritylist. Maybe even lower. After all he could have some issues and he has to lurk because of some RL-stuff or whatever.
It's just a (heavy) fos so far.
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On February 08 2012 02:29 chaoser wrote:I've read up to page 17. This game makes me not want to play mafia anymore.... First three pages after start of the game were a big circlejerk and then the next three are just random accusations and shitty logic...I should have listened to GM about playing in games with lots of newbies... I hate all of you /end rant ##vote rgTheSchworzRead some of his shit... Show nested quote +"I feel Day 1 someone always gets lynched for beingcarelessandthat someone is almost always a townie.So, it doesn't do any harm at all to ramp the pressure now instead of later in the day when we will be hard-pressed for time and are likely to make hasty decisions." Show nested quote +"I personally doubt that he's a blue trying to hide by claiming green, so scum know his role already. Terribad for us." Show nested quote +"You, sir are Scum" and then..."And me be damned if this is not a pressurevote or a normal vote in any way: ##Vote: -_-Quails" I will post a bigger post after getting to the end
If its so terrible for you, then please take your elitist ass and GTFO. Ask for a replacement or whatever. No one will miss you...
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Either that or try contributing without QQ'ing all over the thread...
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On February 08 2012 02:13 Tunkeg wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 01:59 Bill Murray wrote:
when i say half of the game having names of their own, i mean to say half of the game are town power roles
if you are not green, and not mafia, you are a power role, right?
i guess not all 16 have to be in the game...
anyways, im going to officially claim that i am not a townie WTF do you want to achieve by this? If you aren't scum you got a big crosshair on you, and if you aren't third party you will soon enough die at night. I can not see a scenario where this will benefit town. More so we as a town don't get any smarter by this, you aren't confirmed in any way you just confuse us by doing so.
hahaha, tunkeg, my boy, sit down and watch the pro at work
there is this thing called having your medics protect different people (like me!)
there is a thing called coordinating your vigilantes so they dont hit the same people
there is a thing called a detective check
if we massclaim (and im trying to get you all to see we should) we actually will have more KP than the mafia, + lynch and batman... how is that bad?
i ALREADY have a giant crosshair on me, furthermore. I would be killed off just as easily as someone like Radfield, due to my scumhunting prowess later in the game via votecounting analysis.
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since this got pushed off the page so fast
I AM A POWER ROLE
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unroleblockable medic that got a bomb placed on *insert townie looking Vet* and we can't lynch you because you have to move the bomb away first? You got my vote for mayor!
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
ico's theme so far has been to promote a good thread environment. The only problem is that he is shooting down posts by others, but not making an attempt to improve the thread himself. He suggest that the discussion about random voting is derailing the thread, yet doesn't propose anything else to discuss. He makes an extremely safe comment about how the joker shouldn't claim, but has yet to make a legitimate contribution.
ico has shown no signs of scumhunting thus far. He has suggested a policy lynch on kenpachi and called Adam a threat to town for his random vote. However, in both situations he is not going after players he necessarily finds scummy, he is attacking players that are making "stupid" town plays. Stupid town play should be discussed post-game. The only people we should be lynching are those who are most likely mafia.
##Vote ico
Tobberoth has also flew under the radar. I'm not sure I've seen a single player mention him yet. His contributions have been safe and non-aggressive. He plays the noob card and spends most of his time discussing the setup. He jumps on the suspicion cast on kenpachi and VE, but doesn't add anything to the argument himself.
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quit fishing, toadesstern, and your mocking makes you look ugly
on page 13
@ico, I suggested a mass nameclaim, truly, not a massclaim in that sense
I wanted to do so only because Kenpachi claimed that way
I completely support a policy lynch on him to get him to quit claiming townie like that. I used to do that, and it is in no way helpful. You can do it as the GF as easily as you can being really townie.
If we're not policy lynching him RIGHT NOW, I'm not going to be voting him again for the duration of the game.
On February 06 2012 20:19 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2012 19:25 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
Do you want Batman shooting at people he thinks are blue, or people he thinks are scum?
That is why we should give up the Joker. well but shooting scummy people is way harder than shooting townies. I guess batman will try and go for scum first, probably just shoot into scummy players or DT into them. If he hits his target, fine, if he did not there's one less scummy target and that one might still end up being joker. After he killed his mafia target he can still just blindly rampage town or DT because it should be way easier to figure out town and one of them is bound to be the joker. Obviously he only has to make sure that no side wins before he wins and he has to make sure not to get lynched. He's pretty much immortal so time is running in his favor as long as he's not lynched because both town and mafia are helping him shooting each other. Oh and obviously BM's massclaim (or anyone else saying we should do that) is bullshit. If we were to do that there'd be a shitload of lies and fakeclaims. VT's claiming blue to get shot instead of blues, blues trying not to get shot, reds trying to look townie and so on. I don't know about you guys but I'm pretty sure mafia is having an easier time figuring shit out than everyone else will have on their OWN. Not to mention that there's not even a need to figure this out unless you're batman catwoman or a medic. There's just no point in there. I'm totally fine with "knowing" someone is probably a townie, I don't need to know his role. That's how I see it: 0 benefits, maybe a little wifom to screw with mafia but huge drawbacks.
I disagree, but I was really just wanting to nameclaim moreso with that, than actual massclaiming of roles. If we did massclaim, however, we as a town can hold people accountable for their night actions
I do not like adam's play this game. I buddied the shit out of him last game as scum. However, this game, he feels more uneasy, given into should be's as opposed to what ares. I don't like his jaybundrage vote. 13 pages in, and he's voting for someone who hasn't posted? That's WORSE than a policy vote in the RVS. Adam votes for a guy with 0 tells after he calls out 3 people for doing things he doesn't like. That is a huge contradiction. Where is his Kurumi vote? He makes a good case on him via meta, only to back off and vote on a null reason (the guy HASNT EVEN POSTED).....
##vote: adam4167
On February 06 2012 22:01 ico wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2012 21:45 Adam4167 wrote:
All this setup piffle is useless and counterproductive. Both sides can post filler about the setup. Let power roles make their own judgement calls, let the night actions unfold as they do, and spend your time doing something that will actually lead to scum kills, like prodding people or reading filters. In the spirit of that:
Kurumi, you soft-defend Schworz twice in a single post, also indicate that vigi's should avoid him and the rest of your post is basic setup waffle. I don't remember you being this wishy-washy in TL50 either, with statements like 'I find it funny that...' and 'I just ponder', you sure come off that way now. What are you playing at?
Tobberoth, you say you're considering a vote on Kenpachi, yet you want to wait until 'discussion comes up later in the day'. This comes off as quite passive and almost like you're waiting for a bandwagon to pickup speed before you seal the deal. Why not just vote him now if you find him suspicious, as you claim, then move it later as more information presents itself?
Ico, policy lynches are retarded... just no.
Jaybrundage, I know you haven't even posted yet, but we've never been the same team. Don't see why this game would be any different. Have my vote!
##Vote: jaybrundage And we have another herp derp poster. You are making your own case. Only scum knows whether someone is on their team by now. So you are either scum or stupid townie. In each case you are a threat to town.
yeah, i agree with this. ico, since we're "on the same wavelength" regarding this post, who else do you suspect?
On February 06 2012 22:14 Adam4167 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2012 22:01 ico wrote:
And we have another herp derp poster. You are making your own case. Only scum knows whether someone is on their team by now. So you are either scum or stupid townie. In each case you are a threat to town. You sir, are already posting garbage, that's 2 for 2. I clearly have no idea what team he is on, nor was my vote serious in any capacity. We here to lynch scum, not 'stupid' townies.
your non serious vote on someone with 0 posts came after a post detailing why 3 or 4 people had done suspicious shit. that is a contradiction.
On February 06 2012 22:14 DoctorHelvetica wrote:You didn't mention the joker claim in "my way" you just said batman should shoot the first few days which is completely anti-town as it is. Your plan is anti-town but you're not willing to commit to it, that's why I'm voting for you. I don't even have a plan I'm just pointing out the flaws in Cyber_Cheese's grand scheme. If Batman has any sense and other people have already pointed out that it makes even less sense for him to use his KP earlier than later. Show nested quote +On February 06 2012 22:01 ico wrote:On February 06 2012 21:45 Adam4167 wrote:
All this setup piffle is useless and counterproductive. Both sides can post filler about the setup. Let power roles make their own judgement calls, let the night actions unfold as they do, and spend your time doing something that will actually lead to scum kills, like prodding people or reading filters. In the spirit of that:
Kurumi, you soft-defend Schworz twice in a single post, also indicate that vigi's should avoid him and the rest of your post is basic setup waffle. I don't remember you being this wishy-washy in TL50 either, with statements like 'I find it funny that...' and 'I just ponder', you sure come off that way now. What are you playing at?
Tobberoth, you say you're considering a vote on Kenpachi, yet you want to wait until 'discussion comes up later in the day'. This comes off as quite passive and almost like you're waiting for a bandwagon to pickup speed before you seal the deal. Why not just vote him now if you find him suspicious, as you claim, then move it later as more information presents itself?
Ico, policy lynches are retarded... just no.
Jaybrundage, I know you haven't even posted yet, but we've never been the same team. Don't see why this game would be any different. Have my vote!
##Vote: jaybrundage And we have another herp derp poster. You are making your own case. Only scum knows whether someone is on their team by now. So you are either scum or stupid townie. In each case you are a threat to town. I don't know if this is OMGUS or a horrible horrible misunderstanding of what Adam posted. Hopefully it's not a language barrier issue. He didn't seriously claim he knows what team anyone is on, he's using the random vote which is viable this early in the game and making a lighthearted joke about it. That's really not scummy.
It TRULY IS SCUMMY because he had non RVS reasoning on other players - hence he was just FoSing his scumbuddy (say, he is coaching someone - I'm thinking Kurumi - to not act a certain way), and then voting a townie who is "lurking" (really not even acknowledging the thread), and likely to be modkilled.
it's a VERY anti town move, a contradiction, and my meta of him (i buddied him when I was scum and he was town in L) says, as town, he doesn't post like this. I'll see how my read progresses over the larger portion of the game, however, but right now i'm not backing off of this.
On February 06 2012 22:39 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2012 22:34 ico wrote:On February 06 2012 22:14 Adam4167 wrote:
I clearly have no idea what team he is on, nor was my vote serious in any capacity.
We here to lynch scum, not 'stupid' townies. On February 06 2012 22:14 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
I don't know if this is OMGUS or a horrible horrible misunderstanding of what Adam posted. Hopefully it's not a language barrier issue. He didn't seriously claim he knows what team anyone is on, he's using the random vote which is viable this early in the game and making a lighthearted joke about it. That's really not scummy. It is way to early in day 1 to go for a random vote. The person Adam votes for has not even posted in the thread yet. I'd not care so much about it if it was close to the posting and voting deadline, which makes a random vote excusable, but still not desired. Please note I have not put my vote on him yet, about ten people haven't even posted and day 1 still lasts for quite a while. But I am seriously irritated by the fact that actions like day1 townclaim or early day 1 random votes are done at all and get defended by other posters. Yeah, it's pretty normal in fact I think at mafiascum town usually even declares a random voting stage and they are much better players than TL players so I don't see what you're getting at
they are in no way "much better players than TL players"
I really hope you trust me on that one
they're typically 15 year old kids who rage
TL is filled with amazing scumhunters
I was just vibing Kurumi as a 3rd party,
and then he post this:
On February 06 2012 22:47 Kurumi wrote:
Also why are we discussing 3rd party strategy, besides giving them advice and generating void discussion because not much can be analysed from that. They play for themselves and were here to win as whole: town. When I get home I will try to compose some lists, maybe even graphs.
yeah, he's batman/catwoman
calling it now
On February 06 2012 22:47 ico wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2012 22:39 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Yeah, it's pretty normal in fact I think at mafiascum town usually even declares a random voting stage and they are much better players than TL players so I don't see what you're getting at I am aware of that and there is a distinction between having a random voting stage and just randomly voting in a situation that doesn't force it. But we should probably have any further discussion about that after this game, it is derailing.
the town being generically better in MS is due to how bad the scumplay there is
People on TL have to truly scumhunt good players
The RVS is so useless when you have actual reasoning, like adam had IN-THE-POST he cast an rvs vote.
On February 06 2012 22:47 Adam4167 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2012 22:34 ico wrote:
It is way to early in day 1 to go for a random vote. The person Adam votes for has not even posted in the thread yet. I'd not care so much about it if it was close to the posting and voting deadline, which makes a random vote excusable, but still not desired.
Please note I have not put my vote on him yet, about ten people haven't even posted and day 1 still lasts for quite a while.
But I am seriously irritated by the fact that actions like day1 townclaim or early day 1 random votes are done at all and get defended by other posters. Day 1 town claims should be considered null. They're complete fluff and should have zero impact on your decision to vote someone. We are in the 'RVS' or Random Voting Stage. Its perfectly acceptable to randomly vote someone to generate discussion. Hey look, its working right now! I am however interested in why you're taking such great offense to my (and Kenpachis) actions. You're making these actions out to be much worse then they actually are.
defends someone claiming green, that helps scum narrow the list down
defends his rvs vote, when he had good, legitimate reasoning in his posts on kurumi, among others
says he's "just generating discussion" - woudn't your real vote on kurumi with real reasoning have been better?
Was my vote on Kenpachi "RVS"?
Did I not have 3-4 good points, in terms of scenarios, of how his action was anti-town regardless of what his alignment was?
On February 06 2012 23:01 Palmar wrote:
lol mafiascum towns are terrible, the random voting stage is part of why they're terrible.
this.
the other part of why you think they're good, like i said, to reiterate, is because the scum play there is NOT up to snuff with TL
On February 06 2012 23:15 Kurumi wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2012 23:06 Jackal58 wrote:
Palmar - You scum this game?
Tell the truth. Sup Jackal, Kenpachi scum this game? Bets on Opz being 3rd party?
ok, new read, same as the old read
kurumi isnt batman/catwoman
kurumi is scum with kenpachi, adam, sheth, tunkeg
On February 07 2012 00:28 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2012 23:46 Kurumi wrote:On February 06 2012 23:39 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On February 06 2012 22:47 Kurumi wrote:
Also why are we discussing 3rd party strategy, besides giving them advice and generating void discussion because not much can be analysed from that. They play for themselves and were here to win as whole: town. When I get home I will try to compose some lists, maybe even graphs. Best way to get the day 1 discussion rolling besides elections/rvs/clues You think you can't get any reads based off of peoples reactions to what has been discussed? I said not much. If there was normal serial killer in play, would You discuss something about him besides his existence ? It's good for day 1. There has been a "town" plan to have the joker sacrifice himself day 1 when it's obvious Batman would just use his DT power unless he's an idiot. That's good enough for me. I'm done talking about that joke of a plan. If it is a scum proposal, they're gonna ditch it and move on to something else probably an easy lynch like rg or kenpachi
speaking of "easy" outs, you just named 2 easy outs
I've yet to see any actual reads from you, you're just bantering about the setup.
@end of 16
kita, i am dreadfully serious about a massclaim
imagine we have a ball of marines and medics, and our units are shooting themselves
we have 2-4 medics, potentially
like 4-6 vigs
3 dts
4 veterans
we have like 5 kp as a town per round minimum
batman potentially will help us out, too
On February 07 2012 04:31 Kurumi wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2012 04:29 layabout wrote:On February 07 2012 04:27 rgTheSchworz wrote:On February 06 2012 18:41 Kenpachi wrote:On February 06 2012 16:50 rgTheSchworz wrote:
Way to go claiming Joker. Don't do that. We lose one vig for .,.... nothing, cuz Batman is helping us regardless of the situation. And his task isn't to shoot scum, it's to shoot 1 particular scum. He won't risk giving off info for the sake of helping town, he's 3rd party after all and only cares for his win. It's likely he'll DT ppl till he finds Hugo.And he can't hint at being batman at all.
Anyone who claims being town or any blue D1 should be considered for a lynch.It's stupid,useless,and full of WIFOM-Helps scum a ton.
For the lack of a proper Random Voting Stage, I vote Kenpachi.
Considering the current situation, it's justified and if it goes through, we'll have info at least. There's no mayoral elections so setup chat and strategies shouldn't make scum stick out too much in the thread. This, instead will.
I feel Day 1 someone always gets lynched for beingcarelessandthat someone is almost always a townie.So, it doesn't do any harm at all to ramp the pressure now instead of later in the day when we will be hard-pressed for time and are likely to make hasty decisions. This post is an atrocity. RANDOM VOTING STAGE? REALLY? fucking dumb. Its detrimental to blow any KP you get for mere information.[Fun Fact: Town loses when i get lynched. (100% of the time) Oh and im not hinting anytihng. i shouldn't give a vibe when i claim townie. Ive claimed townie when i was Mafia, Veteran, Vigilante, Doctor and etc. From my standpoint, i have no opinion on Sheth, however im now deadset on this fool . Ooh, this is what I was looking for. OMGUS+Saying that he claiming town doesn't mean anything. Then why do you claim town? To look interesting? I'm not yet advocating blowing any lynches not KP, cuz KP are scum's property right?Very minor scumslip here. You get all jittery and angry when I vote you. FoS : KenpachiAlso ##UnvoteGuess it was random after all, contrary to what some believe. RVS over. I'll look into ppl's responses to my posts and analyze them.Point was and still is to get ppl off setup talking. Posting analysis as I go. May double or triple post have fun going through all of his posts. maybe you should read through some of his old games and then come back and apologise for wasting our time. All Your posts are utter garbage. Do I need to motivate You with a vote to help Town? Oh wait, maybe You don't want to help us? Why are You defending Kenpachi?
hmmm... maybe i was wrong about kurumi
On February 07 2012 06:09 Liquid`Sheth wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2012 05:51 Jackal58 wrote:On February 07 2012 05:42 Jackal58 wrote:On February 07 2012 05:29 Kurumi wrote:So Jackal, what direction should we go now? I think Radfield needs some poking. On February 07 2012 05:29 Jayjay54 wrote:On February 07 2012 04:56 Jackal58 wrote:
Good job Kurumi.
You've successfully identified two trolls a noob and a cowboy. Now what? jackal my man, how are things? I trust your opinion since my first game. mind to state your opinion on: Schworz jaybrundage VE? I'll join the fun, if you are ready! I'm not getting excited about anything until we hit the 24 hour mark. There are a few folks that have confirmed receiving their roles but have posted nothing else yet. There are also a fair few folks I haven't played with before so I'm trying to get an idea of what their posting style is. Conversely they haven't played with me either so I fully expect some of them to call me scum before the end of day 1. I can answer that now. Pffffttttt. I don't care. I believe Radfield confirmed but nothing else. But it may have been Refallen. I gotta go back and look again. If VE is scum he'll scream "lynch me" by day 2. At least he does when he's on a team with me. Maybe I just have that effect on people. rgtheschwartz and Jayb I have no clue. Ebwop - It is risk.nuke that posted "confirm" and then nothing else. If he remains afk for 24 hours I'd have no problem killing him. So, you're a fan of lynching lurkers? Or is this purely based on his meta? I really dislike going off of purely meta. And just the statement here bothers me. If he remains afk for half our day then he wants to kill him. Waiting 24 more hours and if he doesn't post having him modkilled should be the best idea. Especially because if we pressure the lurker and he never posts well we've lost a lot of information we could have gained going on someone else. I learned this because of Intrigue. Thanks Intrigue. -.-
im starting to like sheth's play again
i'm having a loss really finding scum this game
i agree with the above post about letting people be modkilled if need be... no point voting someone when we can potentially get 2 reds for the price of 1, and if he's town we're going to lose him anyways. we're capable of scumhunting, and it will only lead to more solid voting analysis in the future.
On February 07 2012 07:19 layabout wrote:glad you asked: the names above the key are there because there was no room below the key. that picture will become my primary tool for scumhunting in this and quite likely furture games. it is similar in essence to a Nisani "node graph" but is better because it is in paint. You also prompted me to add a new section for those players that i just cannot read I present Arkham city V 2.0.1.png: + Show Spoiler +
hahahahahaha hahahahahhahahahaahaahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahja
vsdfjslna
oh, you so funny!
On February 07 2012 07:47 Kenpachi wrote:
This town
is full of fail.
On February 07 2012 07:48 Kurumi wrote:LET ME NOT HELP IT OH WAIT I AM JUST FULFILLING MY WIN CONDITION
:p
On February 07 2012 08:00 Kenpachi wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2012 19:08 Bill Murray wrote:
So, Kenpachi is retracting his townie claim? Great!
1) kenpachi is lying - not protown
2) kenpachi isn't lying and is expendable (he's just a townie) - not protown to out d1, better than lynching a detective
3) kenpachi is mafia - not protown
I'm leaning towards 3 due to his paper-thin counter vote on rgtheschworz with 0 reasoning other than LOL I CAUGHT U IT WAS A TARP!!!!!!!!1!. I was leaning town on him until that action. There isn't a whole lot to go on, so far, so this is still definitely only semi-serious...
Another reason for this vote is so that we don't out a blue role. Let's go ahead and chalk up some hypocrisy, wifom, and omgus in his play as well...
holy non-rvs vote, batman
##vote: kenpachi What the hell is this
well, i'll tell ya what is isn't: A SOFTCLAIM
On February 07 2012 10:43 Radfield wrote:+ Show Spoiler +My self imposed vow of silence is now over  OK Sheth, that's all fine and dandy, but who do you want to lynch and why? Also, I enjoyed your streaming this afternoon Palmar: Toad, VE, Kitaman, what are your thoughts on them. I don't think VE is a great lynch today. His scum play is fairly transparent(no offense meant VE  ), and his town play is pretty straight forward. Lynching him Day 1 is not optimal. In resistance he was fairly obviously town by Day 2, and in XLVIII he was mostly exposed scum by late Day 2. No rush. Bill, where did you go? Still think Kenpachi is our best Day 1 lynch? You have to admit it's a bit ironic that you called him out for claiming green.... when it's something you've most certainly done before on Day 1. CyberCheese, now that you've successfully deduced the best plan forward for the third party situation, who would you like to lynch?
LOL thank god someone is finally confirmed town to me... but it's radfield... the master of disguise..... jeez
I was really wanting someone to find that hypocrisy
cheers
-- i'm stopping on page 22, i will put more work in later
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On February 08 2012 02:39 Tunkeg wrote:
Either that or try contributing without QQ'ing all over the thread...
It's like walking into a room for a party but instead a majority of people are taking big dumps all over the floor. You want to talk to people but walking around in a problem. So all you can do is hope people are drinking the infected water in the punch bowl and develop cholera and die off. In the mean time you just point at the biggest dump taker and say let's just hang that fucker outright. Get it?
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+ Show Spoiler +On February 08 2012 02:39 Bill Murray wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 02:13 Tunkeg wrote:On February 08 2012 01:59 Bill Murray wrote:
when i say half of the game having names of their own, i mean to say half of the game are town power roles
if you are not green, and not mafia, you are a power role, right?
i guess not all 16 have to be in the game...
anyways, im going to officially claim that i am not a townie WTF do you want to achieve by this? If you aren't scum you got a big crosshair on you, and if you aren't third party you will soon enough die at night. I can not see a scenario where this will benefit town. More so we as a town don't get any smarter by this, you aren't confirmed in any way you just confuse us by doing so. hahaha, tunkeg, my boy, sit down and watch the pro at work there is this thing called having your medics protect different people (like me!) there is a thing called coordinating your vigilantes so they dont hit the same people there is a thing called a detective check if we massclaim (and im trying to get you all to see we should) we actually will have more KP than the mafia, + lynch and batman... how is that bad? i ALREADY have a giant crosshair on me, furthermore. I would be killed off just as easily as someone like Radfield, due to my scumhunting prowess later in the game via votecounting analysis.
I like your style. You make this game intersting indeed. But I don't like it from a town perspective. I think your claim is just so annoyingly confusing. You make a halfassed claim that is impossible for anyone to verify, you could just as well be scum with a crazy plan or Batman/CW doing something crazy.
I am not sure if I am right about this, but my thoughts are that if you are going to claim anything, then at least do us the courtesy to claim it in full.
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I am not quite sure what I can claim and not be modkilled
I dont want to be modkilled and not help the town
Im not claiming 3rd party, im a town PR
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
BM I agree the strength of a mass claim is a potential threat to the scum team, but I'm not sure day one is the best time to pull it off. For it to work, the entire town has to agree to it or you're only outing the blues that decide to claim. Additionally, a large majority of the scum team can hide in the pool of vanilla town claims. Sure, it makes the people to claim blue look good, but confirming the town status of our dts, vigs, and medics does not seem like a beneficial trade in exchange for outing all their identities. I think I'd be more willing to consider it down the road.
lolol chaoser complaining about noobs? How ironic.
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On February 08 2012 02:44 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 02:39 Tunkeg wrote:
Either that or try contributing without QQ'ing all over the thread... It's like walking into a room for a party but instead a majority of people are taking big dumps all over the floor. You want to talk to people but walking around in a problem. So all you can do is hope people are drinking the infected water in the punch bowl and develop cholera and die off. In the mean time you just point at the biggest dump taker and say let's just hang that fucker outright. Get it?
No it is like an asshole comming to a party, and it don't turn out as he wants, but instead of going home he just to go around agitating everyone, until someone kick the asshole in the face...
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On February 08 2012 02:50 kitaman27 wrote:
BM I agree the strength of a mass claim is a potential threat to the scum team, but I'm not sure day one is the best time to pull it off. For it to work, the entire town has to agree to it or you're only outing the blues that decide to claim. Additionally, a large majority of the scum team can hide in the pool of vanilla town claims. Sure, it makes the people to claim blue look good, but confirming the town status of our dts, vigs, and medics does not seem like a beneficial trade in exchange for outing all their identities. I think I'd be more willing to consider it down the road.
lolol chaoser complaining about noobs? How ironic.
I don't see how it's ironic
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Hey. Back from work.
I believe our precious doc is scum. And here’s why:
a) Third party talk. I know, I know this was already addressed. And he answered with this post.
On February 07 2012 08:22 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
I understand I'm gonna take some heat for my posts about third parties especially when I said early on it shouldn't be our focus. Can I expand on that statement?
It's bad for town to focus on role mechanics throughout the whole game, particularly Day 2+. I do think it's a decent way to get discussion going on Day 1, and was I wrong? In this process multiple people have accused each other and some really anti-town ideas have been thrown out around it. Even though I and others have made it quite clear that the third parties shouldn't even shoot, there are still people who like the idea of offering the Joker or take it for granted that BM/CW are just gonna go on a townie killing spree. If anyone remains totally unconvinced or doesn't understand why the DT is the better move for both roles, I will explain that better if you really need me to but you should be able to come to this conclusion yourself as long as you don't have ulterior motives.
I'll take heat for talking a lot about the third parties, but as town I think it's pretty important we don't sacrifice our own vig for no gain. I also think it's pretty important we lynch scum instead of third party. Every day that goes by without a lynch of a scum is a wasted lynch. The more lynches we waste, the faster we get to LYLO. It might seem odd to newer players to hear someone say we should essentially ignore a role that is a threat to town, but our goal is to win the game by lynching scum and that is what we should do. Find scum not third parties. It's fine to talk about it when people like CC are trying to kill our vigilantes, it's not fine when people are saying we should not lynch scum.
Only to follow it up with the following posts:
On February 07 2012 12:55 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
@Liquid'Sheth
Your first argument is WIFOM, as is mine to be honest. But mafia are the only party that needs to be so defensive and when players start defending eachother like that, it makes me more confident that my initial hunches might be correct. It's just Day 1 and I'm not coming out saying "Gotcha!" with any sense of serious confidence.
I don't disagree that it is a stupid thing that Kenpachi does.
Your point about Batman is incorrect. Perhaps you don't fully understand the game mechanics. Hopefully this is the last time I have to explain this.
Firstly, Batman has an unblockable detective power. It is immune to GF powers. Secondly, he has an unblockable hit, however it will not kill players with the veteran role. It tells him with 100% confidence except in the case, I assume, of millers (who won't show up as hugo/joker anyway) who the person is. It's not "a little bit of detecting then shooting suspects", when he finds the joker or hugo he KNOWS who they are and will hit them the next night.
If Batman shoots before detecting, he has a low chance of killing either The Joker or Hugo Strange. If he kills a non-Hugo mafia, he gives town a huge advantage. If he kills a town player, he gives the mafia a moderate advantage. Continuing to shoot like this is bad for Batman, because if either Town OR Mafia win before he does, Batman loses the game. He does not win if town wins. He also does not win if Mafia wins.
The only time Batman might use his KP before DT is if one side has an overwhelming advantage and he thinks he can delay the end of the game. Offering up the Joker does not prevent him from shooting more townsfolk, because he has no incentive to do this. Also if he shoots randomly or on his own hunches, he still has as much chance as a town aligned vig does of killing a scum player.
It has nothing to do with knowing where people are. Batman (same rules go for Catwoman) has no reason to care who anyone is except for the Joker and Hugo Strange. By offering Batman the joker, we're giving him an early town kill and we might be able to win the game before he gets any town kills or at least have Joker survive long enough to use his hit and be successful with it. It is not in Batman's interest to shoot randomly or to shoot into people he thinks are red/blue because it increases the likelihood that the game ends before he wins. The best scenario for Batman is one in which the mafia hit the Joker early and he only has to find Hugo, or where we lynch Hugo early and he only has to find the Joker. Hopefully, for us, he looks for Hugo first but even if he starts out looking for the Joker, he's just going to be DTing and there's nothing we can really do about it. Giving him the Joker isn't a solution to any problem.
Moving on to Cyber_Cheese:
Cyber_Cheese's points about Catwoman are wrong. Or maybe it was Tunkeg? Someone said "catwoman should just shoot the most pro-town people", that's not true either. Catwoman should DT until she finds her target then kill them. She doesn't win with scum. If scum win before two-face/penguin are dead then Catwoman loses. Shooting the most pro-town looking people will probably just result in red and green deaths. If you even broadcast that advice or assumption why would two-face and the penguin put themselves in the spotlight? Now Catwoman is in a WIFOM situation where she has to guess what her target is thinking and shooting randomly is unsafe, puts her at a higher risk of losing the game. With the combined full force KP of batman/catwoman/mafia all shooting into "town" (except batman/catwoman don't know who town is, although you guys seem pretty confident they will know implicitly) the game will likely end with scum winning and town with both third parties losing. I'm not going to crunch numbers because I can't do math but I'm guessing of at least one of each candidate surviving to endgame in this scenario are pretty high. I hope that clears things up. I think Cyber_Cheese is either mafia or, more obviously, Batman. I don't know why I didn't put it together before but the player trying to get the Joker offered up scot free with no clear pro-town motives seems like a pretty good bet for me. If he's not third party or scum I'd be pretty shocked. Can anyone link me to some games in which Cyber_Cheese was a town aligned player in memory?
After looking at that I might switch votes. I dislike voting for players who attack me because I am very defensive and often in mafia games I get tunnel vision when I'm attacked. But just as often as I've been wrong, I've been right and ever since letting Pandain slip through my grasp in Insane Mafia I've tried to be more confident.
@Radfield
Asking other people questions and agreeing with WBG doesn't count for much. You were like this in Salem and don't think I'll forget THAT travesty anytime soon.
WBG's analysis is okay. Toadesstern should flesh his thoughts out more but I don't think it's particularly scummy. I still believe town players are more likely to second guess themselves or post logical errors than mafia players are. Mafia players have the advantage of information and teamwork, town is uncoordinated and in the dark. I don't think he necessarily contradicted himself talking about me, it seems like he's saying it's the kind of thing that could go either way so it's just inconclusive.
On February 07 2012 13:00 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
The scenario in which it does make sense for Batman or Catwoman to shoot without a conclusive DT check is late-late-late game just before the next day is LYLO or during LYLO. That is when you can't afford to use a DT check because if you don't hit that same night or the next night you will lose. We aren't in this situation so giving up any town player on day 1 (if it's even legal, still need an answer on that) isn't something we should be thinking about at all.
On February 07 2012 19:36 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2012 18:49 Tyrran wrote:On February 07 2012 12:55 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Moving on to Cyber_Cheese:
Cyber_Cheese's points about Catwoman are wrong. Or maybe it was Tunkeg? Someone said "catwoman should just shoot the most pro-town people", that's not true either. Catwoman should DT until she finds her target then kill them. She doesn't win with scum. If scum win before two-face/penguin are dead then Catwoman loses. Shooting the most pro-town looking people will probably just result in red and green deaths. If you even broadcast that advice or assumption why would two-face and the penguin put themselves in the spotlight? Now Catwoman is in a WIFOM situation where she has to guess what her target is thinking and shooting randomly is unsafe, puts her at a higher risk of losing the game. With the combined full force KP of batman/catwoman/mafia all shooting into "town" (except batman/catwoman don't know who town is, although you guys seem pretty confident they will know implicitly) the game will likely end with scum winning and town with both third parties losing. I'm not going to crunch numbers because I can't do math but I'm guessing of at least one of each candidate surviving to endgame in this scenario are pretty high. I hope that clears things up. I think Cyber_Cheese is either mafia or, more obviously, Batman. I don't know why I didn't put it together before but the player trying to get the Joker offered up scot free with no clear pro-town motives seems like a pretty good bet for me. If he's not third party or scum I'd be pretty shocked. Can anyone link me to some games in which Cyber_Cheese was a town aligned player in memory?
As much as I agree with you on Batman, I disagree on you Catwoman stance. In my eyes, Catwoman wants to help scum. Her target are one vig and one vig/DT, both valuable target for scum. A scum victory will most likely pass through the death of both of these player. I'm not sure she is going to shoot N1 ( even tho shes has 3/4 chance of hitting town), but she will start shooting much earlier than Batman. We could get lucky and have her hit scum, but i wouldnt rely on it. As far as I stand, i'm considering Catwoman as a scum that town should get rid of if given the possibility. @Kenpachi : Are you planning on being usefull, or do you want town to lynch you before you got the chance to do it? Are you planning to do anything else than OMGUS'ing people that vote for you ? The only reason i'm not voting for you is that you've had similar bad play in Steamship. How are you expecting town not to lynch you with this kind of play ? @rgTheSchworz : So now that you created some pressure in order to get lynch target, what did you find out ? Who do you think we should lynch ? Catwoman helps scum indirectly. She has no interest in either faction winning until her win conditions are fulfilled, in which case she leaves the game. Seeing her as a threat to town is viable, but she is not scum. We do not get closer to winning by lynching her, we only give the mafia more time to win the game. Kenpachi is this bad in every game jsyk. I'm starting to think he's bad on purpose so that he can always fall back on the excuse of "oh im just bad and do random stuff" whenever he actually rolls mafia. Show nested quote +On February 07 2012 19:27 Toadesstern wrote:
not sure yet. Probably someone out of CC / layabout. If neither of those 2 is going to be an option I'd be happy to lynch BM / Kenpachi / Palmar instead. There have been a few cases laid out, put a little more thought into it. Town doesn't win without some serious thought. It's a team effort. You can make statements like this all game as mafia, it's too safe. Let's talk BM. Make a case for his lynch. If you're "happy" to lynch him you must feel pretty good that he's scum right? Seems like you're not really invested in who gets lynched. Uninterested. That's not good.
Especially, since the joker claim was apparently no longer an option, he actively fires the mechanics discussion. He also talks about lynching scum instead of lynching third parties, but it’s really not like we have a choice. Town just has to look for the scum. Why does he have to push this hard for a discussion. For those who were in L. This is Sandrobar all over again. The behavior isn’t helping town whatsoever. He even says so himself: “It's bad for town to focus on role mechanics throughout the whole game, particularly Day 2+.”. Why would you post that and follow it up with like 3 word pages of mechanics discussion. To clarify your opinion on a topic which has no relevance in the current situation? Sorry I don’t buy it. More likely to spread discussions about generic stuff which is a good place for scum, because every scum likes it generic.
b) Spammy play
I want you to look at his filter and see what he did so far (after the freaking batman / catwoman discussion). http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=305850&user=38419 First thing, you’ll notice: WTF? 3 pages? Alright, he has to be contributing. But the more you read, the more you’ll find that he actually didn’t. I already addressed a) so I won’t go into that. But apart from that, you’ll find a little soft (one may call it fluffy) discussion with / against toad and one Ok case on VE which he didn’t really force. I ask you fellow townies, how little can you help town in 2+ pages? Here’s the answer.
c) Voting behavior. Tunkeg => VE => Schworz => CC. Already 4 votes. I don’t like that he’s switching that often, but I guess that’s his style. Two vote sticks out to me, though.
On February 07 2012 13:25 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
WBG that was on point, pushing the easiest lynch with no commitment, wishy washy, good call. Voting RG.
What I don’t like here, is that you are basically pushing the easiest lynch yourself. Also the timing feels band-wagon-initiating-style. As a vet (He is a vet right?) you should not throw votes on someone that easily because of a (not even that good) case.
On February 07 2012 22:55 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
##Unvote rgtheschwortz
##Vote Cyber_Cheese
He was actively posting while this happened, still his posts give no indication of why he did this whatsoever. Stealth vote while being online? Can’t see any explaination how you handle votes this way. Especially, if you bother to write everything down which pops into your head (2+ pages).
IMO, all he did this game was discussion mechanics, thus talking irrelevant shit for 3 pages now (one OK case on VE (but he unvoted after a brief period of time.). His votes look shitty. I don’t know how he’s helpful in this state and therefore I don’t know how his actions may be town motivated. Even if he is town, his play doesn’t give it away right now.
Other than this I want to address three more things.
Schworz: He really seemed like the easy d1 lynch, scum would have liked, because of no information gain and bandwagon with (probably) all sorts of people. His first posts are genuinely town to me. This was on mind yesterday, but I guess he’s of the table which I like.
Katina: On February 07 2012 17:49 Katina wrote: Show nested quote +On February 07 2012 02:05 Jayjay54 wrote:
Alright town, fear not, Jayjay is in here. Let’s find guards and kick some tail! For town!
Show nested quote +On February 07 2012 05:29 Jayjay54 wrote:
I'll join the fun, if you are ready! These sentences are just plain silly. I don't know why a townie would ever feel the need to become a cheerleader for their own team. [/spoiler]
So you basically contribute nothing all game long and then you accuse me because my first sentence in the whole game was happy and I phrased “Quit pro quo” a little less formal? Also, you took the second quote completely out of context. You really seem to be looking for something you can’t find. Odd.
Palmar: Wow, you contribute. This is lightyears compared to L. I like it. To your list (contains a lot of what I know about the playstyle):
VE: 55% agree. His play seems to be scum, but then again he behaves exactly like in L. I feel like there are better options right now.
Hiro 95% agree. He was so vocal in L. In spite of being a blue DT. He doesn’t do shit this game and I don’t know why he would switch that playstyle being town when he already showed that he can be vocal as a blue. So yeah, I am up.
Sheth 70-75%: Agree. I have trouble reading him. Already had in L. He always seems to not really spend a lot of time with this game. But I guess the arguments vs. him look pretty scummy. Would probably be up for it as well
All in all, my vote is on doc: ##Vote DoctorHelvetica. I’ll be up for hero maybe Sheth as well. I’ll be online for the next few hours. So feel free to ask me stuff, chat and discuss. Please leave third parties outside. So long.
Layabout: thanks for the games, will look into it.
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has anyone talked about the gay phone network, yet?
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On February 08 2012 02:29 chaoser wrote:I've read up to page 17. This game makes me not want to play mafia anymore.... First three pages after start of the game were a big circlejerk and then the next three are just random accusations and shitty logic...I should have listened to GM about playing in games with lots of newbies... I hate all of you /end rant ##vote rgTheSchworzRead some of his shit... Show nested quote +"I feel Day 1 someone always gets lynched for beingcarelessandthat someone is almost always a townie.So, it doesn't do any harm at all to ramp the pressure now instead of later in the day when we will be hard-pressed for time and are likely to make hasty decisions." Show nested quote +"I personally doubt that he's a blue trying to hide by claiming green, so scum know his role already. Terribad for us." Show nested quote +"You, sir are Scum" and then..."And me be damned if this is not a pressurevote or a normal vote in any way: ##Vote: -_-Quails" I will post a bigger post after getting to the end
Stays inactive for ages, comes in and immediately jumps on the biggest bandwagon without contributing anything to the accusations, just quoting posts without comment, while QQing about everyones play. This is far more scummy than VisceraEyes OMGUS earlier in the thread (and VE has not acted scummy since then IMO) so I'm going to switch my vote. Hopefully your post when you get to the end of the thread will add more contribution, but right now, you're adding nothing at all to the discussion and just seem to want to shut it down.
##Unvote VisceraEyes
##Vote chaoser
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On February 08 2012 02:43 Bill Murray wrote:
we have like 5 kp as a town per round minimum
batman potentially will help us out, too
wat?
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On February 08 2012 02:51 Tunkeg wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 02:44 chaoser wrote:On February 08 2012 02:39 Tunkeg wrote:
Either that or try contributing without QQ'ing all over the thread... It's like walking into a room for a party but instead a majority of people are taking big dumps all over the floor. You want to talk to people but walking around in a problem. So all you can do is hope people are drinking the infected water in the punch bowl and develop cholera and die off. In the mean time you just point at the biggest dump taker and say let's just hang that fucker outright. Get it? No it is like an asshole comming to a party, and it don't turn out as he wants, but instead of going home he just to go around agitating everyone, until someone kick the asshole in the face...
Are you going to be the one that kicks "the asshole in the face"?
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/i9O8W.png)
