EPTHowever, he claims to be overloaded with work, and I myself would never use an excuse like that if I was scum, because his lack of activity hurts his team if he's town, and doesn't really change much if he's scum, since lurking is a viable strategy. So I'm not thrilled with the idea of lynching him. It's kind of shitty to do that as scum.
Responsibility Mafia! - Page 26
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Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
However, he claims to be overloaded with work, and I myself would never use an excuse like that if I was scum, because his lack of activity hurts his team if he's town, and doesn't really change much if he's scum, since lurking is a viable strategy. So I'm not thrilled with the idea of lynching him. It's kind of shitty to do that as scum. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
Tell me you're getting cold feet when your scum-suspect is not only even scummier than before, but could feasibly get lynched. Tell me that please Palmar. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On December 22 2011 08:15 Palmar wrote: I don't understand why GGQ would be a better lynch target than BC, if we're defaulting to a lurker. I'm going to read LSB's filter before I go to bed, I found WBG's initial case dumb/forced. That doesn't say anything about LSB's alignment though. I'd love to hear what your actual criticisms of my case are, instead of repeatedly saying that it is dumb/forced. At no point did I accuse LSB of being an SK, either. I actually just thought that mafia could be given information about the existence of one. Qatol's answer to my question does not further anything on that front, so only mafia know what mafia know. Thus, at best, the whole part about LSB mentioning the SK is irrelevant. That doesn't detract from the actual case I made, which is that LSB is being timid, misconstruing people's posts (such as Chezinu and syllogism) and not actually doing anything. Has LSB tried to scumhunt? Has he put up a convincing defense of himself? Has he provided useful things to town discussion other than simply claiming he has done so? Since the answers to all of those questions are no, I want him to die. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
Whenever people revert to using real life excuses for not contributing I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt to prove themselves another day, reason is that I'd like to be extended the same opportunity (which I was, for example in early experimental haunted mafia), if it ever comes up in games. I would have preferred he just straight up told us he didn't have time and sheeped his strongest townread instead of throwing out that case, but I'm not sure GM would ever do that. I won't directly oppose a lynch on him, if that's what you're asking, but I'd prefer lynching someone that is around to defend himself. Unless of course GM has the time to play now, in which case I'll stay up for an hour more to get a better read on him. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On December 22 2011 08:32 Palmar wrote: Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Whenever people revert to using real life excuses for not contributing I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt to prove themselves another day, reason is that I'd like to be extended the same opportunity (which I was, for example in early experimental haunted mafia), if it ever comes up in games. I would have preferred he just straight up told us he didn't have time and sheeped his strongest townread instead of throwing out that case, but I'm not sure GM would ever do that. I won't directly oppose a lynch on him, if that's what you're asking, but I'd prefer lynching someone that is around to defend himself. Unless of course GM has the time to play now, in which case I'll stay up for an hour more to get a better read on him. Did this work in PYP:I with chaoser? Why the hell should we believe anything anyone says just because it's possibly a RL excuse? Did it work for me in XLV when Dropbear claimed real life excuses for being replaced, so Curu+I thought he was more town? Why are you using out-of-game things to defend GM when you accused L of using a non-game-relevant reason to vote you? | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
Tell me I'm not imagining things guys, go read GM's filter and see if it says ANYTHING to the effect of "I didn't contribute yesterday because I was overloaded at work" | ||
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GGQ
Canada2653 Posts
On December 22 2011 08:04 wherebugsgo wrote: So the best of your abilities is repeatedly posting one liners and not actually contributing to useful discussion? What do you think of LSB? Of GM? Foolishness? RoL? Palmar/L? How do you feel about the fact that I want to kill you? Got home from work an hour ago and caught up on the thread, was trying to get some posts in before I leave for fencing in 15 minutes (I'll have an hour or so to catch up again before the lynch). Foolishness is null, RoL I'd have to read up on as I only remember his latest cop-out post. Someone mentioned that Palmar likes to argue with his scumbuddies, which is what I was thinking as well in his exchange with L. Didn't have a scumread otherwise. As I said in my first post, LSB could very well be scum but I'm not convinced. GM is exactly what I'm looking for in a scum candidate. People have already addressed why he could be scum from his earlier posts, here's what I think from his later "substantive" posts. The first part pretty much completely repeats what I said in my post. More or less exactly. The second part has serious issues: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=295384¤tpage=24#465 The LSB section is wishy-washy and inconsistent. The hydra section feels completely forced, starting with the joke about still wanting to kill it (as if he's afraid of being accused of dropping that issue?). Then he states that his initial "case" on the hydra was testing reactions of some sort (without clarifying what he was testing or what the results were). I'd be much more comfortable if he just claimed that his case was always a joke. By including the "hurr durr" in his own case, he hints that the case was stupid, then says that the hydra is suspicious for calling it stupid. Then he picks a random low content poster who isn't going to get lynched to vote for. It feels to me like GMarshal is scum trying to "contribute" without having much time (I don't doubt that he actually is busy IRL) and not doing a very good job at it. ##vote GMarshal And now I have to go. | ||
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
Give me 48 hours to get my act together, that's until the middle of day 2. If by then I'm not up to my usual standards, shoot me, lynch me or whatever you want. Right now my concentration is blown, I simply cannot write/think coherently. I feel like crap for doing it because this is an invite game, and I should be showcasing high level town play and all that, but I feel like I'm swimming through molassas rather than playing mafia. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
On December 22 2011 08:34 VisceraEyes wrote: Yeah, this is fucking damning. At no point does GM state that the reason he has been absent was "because he was overloaded at work"...yet this is the sole reason Palmar is uncomfortable lynching GM. Tell me I'm not imagining things guys, go read GM's filter and see if it says ANYTHING to the effect of "I didn't contribute yesterday because I was overloaded at work" Are you now complaining about me being nice? On December 22 2011 01:58 GMarshal wrote: So, I'm not even caught up with the thread at this point, (I'm on like page 16), I just wanted to say that I've been occupied with other things and haven't had a chance to really do anything yet. I'll be trying to give the town something to work with when I get out of work in about 4 hours. Until then I have spreadsheets to sort and other such lovely joys. Sorry people, I hate to lurk, I'll do my best to make it up to you guys when I get back, but yesterday I was incredibly busy. On December 22 2011 06:08 GMarshal wrote: Actually a more fair comparison would be my play in PTP where I simply was overwhelmed with work the first two days. It happens, but as town or scum, I'm generally active, so please, analyze my behavior if you will, but inactivity is always going to be do to matters beyond my control. I sign up to play mafia, not to sit on my ass and lurk, thats no fun for anyone. On December 22 2011 07:31 GMarshal wrote: I sped read to catch up, the only posts I skipped were Chezes. That said, it was not a careful read through, it was more of a "fuck, fuck, fuck, I should have done this yesterday" style read, I usually like to read the thread 3-4 times before saying anything. Plus you know (I think) that my reading comprehension goes out the window when I'm exhausted On December 22 2011 07:19 GMarshal wrote: I'm running on like 3 hours of sleep, cut me some slack. Reviewing, I apparently didn't read the case against LSB carefully enough the first time around. I'm not even gonna argue that, you're an asshole. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
I'm not the asshole here, you're the asshole. You expect town to believe that you now are "cutting GM slack" when NOT EVEN THREE HOURS ago you were out for fucking BLOOD. What's changed? That he's given lame fucking excuses for not contributing? BULLSHIT PALMAR. That's ridiculous, you know it's ridiculous, and you calling me an asshole for calling you out on it is an asshole move. I'm just trying to lynch scum. You're trying to make me out to be the bad guy for it. Why? Why would you do that as town? | ||
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Qatol
United States3165 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
For my part, I respectfully deny your request. What's stopping ALL of our candidates from just saying "Oh you know, just give me 48 hours to get my shit together" You've been asked several times to reinforce your read on LSB, and in the time it's taken you to post THREE excuses, you could have read LSB's filter SEVEN times because he's posted maybe TWELVE times. "I'm confused" doesn't work in a game full of vets and "I'm tired" doesn't work as an excuse 5 hours from the lynch. Sorry bro, but if you gain more support than LSB, I will be voting for you. I like you as a person. And I appreciate your honesty about being busy. But I think you're scum, and we don't have time to be granting scum asylum because they couldn't be bothered to play. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Check this out: On December 22 2011 06:39 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Did anyone notice that aside from a post about rng, random accusations with no merit and posting random fluff posts talking generalities about things Palmar had provided nothing of any substance in any town way, including this post? Hell up to this post most of them were total spam posts. Has anyone noticed he made a few more fluff posts then followed it up on a case against GM for wanting to policy lynch a Hydra? Account sharers have proven to ruin games and have an advantage other players don't. Starting a game off before any information is gleaned by saying "lets off the hydras" is not a terrible post. Had he been actively pushing it and bullying people to do so maybe. He then makes a post to "further incriminate" gm then again attacks me based off my post I made saying that I only covered 3 points. One of those points is "vague" to only players who aren't seriously reading this thread, one point was on talking about something that was so obviously scummy and was something palmar said was pro town (its not) that I had to comment. Even if someone says something ages before you post, if it scummy you comment on it. People do not get a free pass on old comments. I then told him to stop making vague posts. He was doing so till that point and only started giving somewhat non shite posts after I called him out. So apparently 3 valid points. Now, I only respond to these posts as he was tossing shit my way for my play. Up until I called him out Palmar was playing like shite. However he is actively playing so I am inclined to let him continue posting to give us a better read on him. As for the game at hand as it is now. LSB should be hanged. Anyone go filter him. He hasn't really defended himself at all from any heat given, nor has he provided any real analysis on anyone. Near every post of his seems to be quoting people asking questions of clarification on shite rather than contributing in any meaningful manner. Near none of his posts say fuck all about himself and most of them are short as the "long ones" are only long due to quote usage. So until he comes out with anything substantial to keep him alive im voting him. ##vote lsb BC suspects Palmar, but ultimately suspects LSB more and votes him. Still, suspicion of Palmar. Chezinu: votes Palmar, but isn't viewed seriously (at least by me) because he had no reasoning for his vote. I asked him for one, but he hasn't been around and hasn't provided one. Bum: same thing as Chezinu. L: voting Palmar, albeit his vote reason is shit. There are three things that are troubling me right now: 1. LSB has disappeared and he is drawing votes very easily. This makes me unsure of him being scum. 2. Palmar defends GM on game-irrelevant grounds, but attacks L with the accusation that L is using game-irrelevant reasons to vote him. 3. At least four other people right now suspect Palmar, but he has received no real attention all game. We so far have just been saying "oh he looks like his normal town," which is certainly true, but isn't conclusive of his alignment. With a lack of pressure, if Palmar is scum he could do anything he wants. sandro, what do you think of Palmar in light of what he said about GM? Same question to anyone else who is willing to contribute to town discussion. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
On December 22 2011 08:56 VisceraEyes wrote: But if he's busy, he's not being a dick, guy! If he's honestly just too busy to play, then he's not BEING a dick! Nope, because the benefits aren't equal for both factions. It is highly beneficial for scum to be away from the thread, and then just claim busy. It reduces discussion, reduces content that can be analysed on the scum, and it is a legit way of not getting lynched. It sucks for town to be away from the thread, and then claim busy. You might get lynched for non-contributions anyway, which is a free pass for scum on day one, and if you get by, you have still deprived town of your reads and contributions and you enter day 2 without having established your innocence. So yeah, I think it's a dick move to do it in general, but it's abusing an advantage if you're scum and preventing disaster if you're town. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
You're beginning to cause me to suspect you. And you were pretty townie to me up till very recently. | ||
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Curu
Canada2817 Posts
What I am worried about is that GM isn't above using emotional manipulation as scum. Actually Palmars first ever game I think GM kept trying to guilt Palmar into not voting him when GM was scum. I won't be around for lynch. Posting from phone and I am about to leave but hopefully sandro will be here. Curu | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
You've been asking the same questions as VE. Except for when you asked me about your case, and in between these posts I'm re-reading LSB's filter as I said earlier. And yeah, I always give people the benefit of the doubt once. Worst case scenario we're hunting 3 scum tonight. I mean yeah, I once gave Mig the benefit of the doubt like this and got burned for it (XLIV). I'll bring this up postgame because technically it's irrelevant to the game. It's just my opinion. I already explained my initial feelings about your case here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12848511 | ||
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SamuelLJackson
223 Posts
Palmar seems okayish to me, the only thing that is bothering me a bit is that he is focusing too much on arguing with people for no real benefit. Right now I feel the best move is to go ahead and lynch LSB, because any quick bandwagons we can come up with this late have very little chance of actually hitting scum. | ||
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