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On December 22 2011 07:58 GGQ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2011 06:23 Jackal58 wrote:On December 22 2011 05:55 wherebugsgo wrote:
Jackal, can you explain what makes you suspicious of LSB? Simple. His reason for not wanting to lynch somebody is ludicrous. Particularly in this game. The person he chose as a bad lynch target was Foolishness. Simply because he's a vet. I'm pretty sure I saw Annul receive the same defense day 1 in 48. Ya I know I did. I did it. He has also completely ignored my comment and my vote. You know what? I do the same thing when I'm scum and a single person fos's me or votes me. I ignore it. Why draw attention to it if everybody is ignoring it? I think LSB is scum. He tries to deflect a lynch target with bs reasoning. I think the target he was deflecting from - Foolishness is also scum. Foolishness is not a person that gimps through day one as a townie. GGQ is another that has 1 real post in the game. He stated in that post that he's ok with a the case on Chezinu and would support his lynch. Except there is no case on Chez. Just some early policy lynch talk but he has no votes. Then GGQ says he would support an LSB lynch but the case is really weak but hey I'll kill him anyways but it's a bad idea.Palmar and L are either both townies or both scum. I know Palmar loves to have pissing contests with his scum buddies on day 1. I've been the other half of that duo with him before. And their argument is so fucking inane it's well within the realm of possibility they are both scum. I'm undecided on both as yet. But I'll wager whatever the one flips the other will as well. So ya right now I'd be cool with everybody consolidating their votes on LSB. He should be the first domino to fall for team red. WTF did you even read my post?
Yes. I read every word of it. About 5 times now.
On December 21 2011 14:08 GGQ wrote:
I agree completely that this game is wtf balls, but I have no idea how chez or bum have been doing helpful things with their boggling posts. As far as I'm concerned, they are just making crap up and talking about it without even explaining what they are talking about.
Neither the OP nor my role pm hints at anything like 'responsibility points' or 'triggered abilities' or having to post in a certain style or needing to avoid saying X or Y or whatever the fuck. But they just keep assuming this and harping on it and it's fucking up their posts to the point where it's just painful to read them.
Yes, this is Responsibility Mafia, we are expected to play well or we will have to take responsibility for it. Hey, guess what? That's true of every mafia game ever! The special mechanic of this game is that we're supposed to try to play well. Well, whoop-de-doo, isn't that unique?
As far as I'm concerned, there's nothing special about this game and that's how I'm going to play until I have reason to believe otherwise. I strongly encourage everyone else to do the same. If we're playing well we shouldn't have any reason to worry about taking responsibility, and if we're all trying to avoid responsibility the town atmosphere is gonna be shit.
1. RE cases being made so far
Chezinu's posts seem like garbage to me and I'm fine with lynching him.
As for the hydra, he seems on the level. I haven't noticed anything untoward about his posting and what he's after.
2 LSB is a better case, but it's still thin. Especially the accusation that he doesn't apply meta to chezinu. LSB's point was just that even when chezinu is posting rationally that doesn't mean he is town.
I'd like to find a better target before the lynch.
1 Chezinu was not a lynch target at this point in time nor is he now. At this point the only things being brought up regarding Chezinu was policy lynch bs mainly from GM.
2. LSB is a better case but I'm not lynching him. Let's find somebody else.
What did I read wrong?
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On December 22 2011 09:10 Curu wrote:
I can understand Palmar. He did the same thing in the game where he was sure Mig was scum but gave him some leeway because Mig said he was busy.
What I am worried about is that GM isn't above using emotional manipulation as scum. Actually Palmars first ever game I think GM kept trying to guilt Palmar into not voting him when GM was scum.
I won't be around for lynch. Posting from phone and I am about to leave but hopefully sandro will be here.
Curu
When you post as Curu you don't have to sign your name. 
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I'll tell you what I think WBG.
I think that GMarshal is scum.
First, he comes in with a few pretty inflammatory posts regarding his irrational hatred of hydras and suggests policy lynching them. Now, I find this pretty interesting, because at the time, I was relatively suspicious of SLJ from the whole Chezinu nonsense...and I wasn't alone I don't think.
Fast forward. Zero posts from GM occur. During this time, he's too busy to play. Fair enough. BUT, when he gets back, he makes a couple of posts indicating that he's reading the thread. Cool! Like, "Yeah, I'd comment, but I'm not done rereading." and the like. That's fine, right up until this post.
On December 22 2011 06:06 GMarshal wrote:Alright, I've finally had time to read the thread.
Lets crack this bitch right open. Part 1: The Setup First of all, regarding the setup. Everyone who is speculating on it, I suggest you go take a gander at Personality Mafia, notice the preponderance of vigilantes over dts. I'm betting this game follows a similar theme in that respect. I think this talk of triggers is preposterous, responsibility is based on actions not words, so expect things like weak medics or suicidal vigilantes, not "a DT that can only check people who have said potato". So stop worrying about "triggers" and such. This is at its basest still a game of mafia. Behave analytically, dont lie and don't derp, and everything will be ok. Bumatlarge's talk of responsibility points is an insane excuse to obfuscate his posting, and thus rather suspicious in and of itself. This is a closed setup, we know nothing, so stop talking or making assumptions based on the title. For all we know everyone is a VT or a time traveling Nordic Jahrl, don't speculate about the setup, since we are probably never going to have any concrete information regarding the setup. I'll say it again, play this as a normal setup. My major suggestion is to not claim, however under any circumstance. I suspect that there is a mafia role that can shoot based on claims, much like the sniper in Zona's Steamship game. Don't adjust your behavior to deal with the setup, if the setup is well designed then playing normally will win us the game, and behaving like morons will end in our quick and unsubtle deaths. So, don't worry about it, and don't waste time discussing it. (part two coming as soon as I'm done writing it)
The parts I've bolded are the parts I find the most important. He claims to be done with the reread, and he's confident enough in what he's seen to "crack this bitch right open." The thing that sticks out the most to me about this post is that it looks JUST like the first post in the 'town-meta' link that Palmar provided in his case against GM. I think this is by design.
Next, draw your attention to the next bolded statement. WBG, you were all over LSB for his "specific knowledge of the roles in the game.".......it doesn't get more specific than "weak medics and suicidal vigilantes". I mean, I'm relatively new, so the thought of weak medics and suicidal vigs hadn't even occurred to me when envisioning how this would be balanced/setup. But GM specifically mentions those roles as roles to look out for. And, as we've determined from the OP and the nonsense surrounding your case on LSB, the scumteam will get a list of some or all possible roles in the game. I think this is a hell of a lot more indicative of hidden knowledge than speculating that there's an SK, no?
Next comes this, his part 2.
On December 22 2011 06:55 GMarshal wrote: Part 2: Picking and Choosing. Who to lynch day 1 Fuck it, I was half way through an analysis and realized it was utter shit. Let me just throw down my thoughts on a few players and I'll try to cook up something actually coherent. The major point is that the thread early on is actually painful to read with a bunch of nonsense being thrown around. Chez and bum yelling about triggers and hinting at roles, when really, there is no reason or call to do so. That said, I can see bum doing that as town, and Chez is freaking Chez, although in his defense, I can come up with a reason why town would claim traitor, in fact, I think anyone who has read the OP carefully can come up with a reason. If chez were not utterly insane and had been subtle about it I might have even given him town points for it. LSB: Well, he hasn't come up with a mega plan yet, but I find wbg analysis against him to be quite weak. The fact is I expect better play from LSB overall. One point I didn't see brought up is that LSB seems to be lacking confidence, Town LSB is supremely confident, I don't get that "feel" here. his defense seems ok. I wanted to comment on him since he was a lynch target at some point. SamuelLJackson - Hydra! Kill it with fire! Kill it with fire!. Ok, not seriously. What I find suspicious is that he endorsed a weak case against LSB. The fact that he can't come up with a reason why Chez might softclaim traitor as town is suspicious to me, especially because he says its anti town, and then doesn't do anything about it. Especially lolworthy is how he accuses me of making a stupid case when my "case" is "I dislike hydras, hurr durr", which was an attempt at gauging reactions. In fact I find the fact that he is so upset over it to be something worth noting Kitaman- Hi Kita! Do you guys know whats funny about kitaman27 this game? That he is playing exactly to his scum meta and not actually contributing anything! Here is his filterRead it, what is it about? Lurkers and Sheth, thats all kita seems to talk about. Yet he gets away as "not lurking" because of his 3-4 posts. Compare that to his play in Team Meele were he was active and pushing an agenda of lynching scum, and wham, you have a likely red. Seriously, look at his posts, town kita often asks poignant questions and pushes his objectives, almost always taking stances, while scum kita likes to go for the "soft" lynches in lurkers and trolls while staying well away from the spotlight. Notice how he pushes Sheth, who no one is voting for, likely putting him on the "voting for someone not lynched train" Kita walks in in the middle of Palmar making a major accusation about me to yell about sheth, and then walks away, without taking a stance on it. In fact, reading through his posts, he fails to to take a real stance on anything. Of the players in the game, he is one that jumps out at me as extremely suspicious and worth scrutinizing. Also, Palmar and L, stop yelling at each other, and remember, you have a higher chance of finding scum in the mid activity players, which is a category neither of you fulfills, but which kita does.
Between Parts 1 and 2, he goes from a confidence level that allows "let's crack this bitch open" to "my analysis is utter shit". Interesting. Further timidness can be seen throughout the whole post, but the most interesting bit of information is found in his read of LSB...most notably his lack of one. He states that WBG's analysis is "quite weak", yet brings a point "he didn't see brought up" that was actually in WBG's analysis.
When confronted about this, GM melts down. He admits that he hadn't ACTUALLY done a full reread, that was more like a 'fuck fuck I should have done this yesterday' kind of read...but you said you were too busy yesterday? How is it that you "should" have done it when there's no way you "could" have done it? He's asked to expand his read on LSB, from several sources, but his only response is "I'm fried, let me live and see if I get better teeheehee".
Not today sir. Not today.
##Unvote: LSB
##Vote: GMarshal
I find it also interesting to note that Palmar was out for his blood only a few short hours ago...but since he's come in and shown himself to actually BE scum, Palmar doesn't want to lynch him. Instead, concludes that his vote might be better placed on LSB after all, in spite of him telling L "I'm going to get you lynched"
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There both highly likely scum Visc. Don't split the vote
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yeah, while I think GM is probably scum too I don't think we should get off LSB. A lot of people have said GM is scum. I really doubt all of them are wrong, but we realistically can't afford to try to lynch GM so little time left in the day.
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Do you not share any of WBG's concerns about LSB Jackal? Is there any reason you prefer an LSB vote to a GM vote?
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On December 22 2011 09:16 SamuelLJackson wrote:
Really I feel like giving GM another day, he is acting too weak and I think as scum he would be able to get something together quickly just to get us off him. The feeling I get from his posting right now is that he can't really come up with something useful and doesn't want to give us something random that might hurt the town just to get off the hook.
Palmar seems okayish to me, the only thing that is bothering me a bit is that he is focusing too much on arguing with people for no real benefit.
Right now I feel the best move is to go ahead and lynch LSB, because any quick bandwagons we can come up with this late have very little chance of actually hitting scum.
this sandro?
I agree with this post almost in entirety; VE, this is essentially my opinion about LSB/GM right now.
Basically, while I'm not 100% comfortable with lynching LSB right now, there is nothing better to do but to carry out the lynch, since a GM lynch would be arguably shakier and there is not much time left to actually build voting support for it.
What troubles me is that there are many players who so far have not yet voted, or who voted someone earlier in the game but haven't changed yet.
Examples include prpl, bum, and Chezinu, just off what I remember. Prpl especially has done nothing all game, he even "RNGed" you, VE.
Upon rereading the thread I keep having second thoughts, but I might just be paranoid.
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Oh sorry about the post from wrong account Ver. I forgot my phone is logged into Curu.
I am a bit concerned about LSB's lack of any sort of comment or realistic effort to swing the lynch off him. If that sort of play came form someone like Palmar or syllogism it would be a sure scum sign since they are heavily involved as Town and much lazier/careless as Mafia, something I can definitely relate to but I don't know if LSB shares that sentiment.
Realistically though I don't think there is another viable candidate at this point. As sandro said GM could probably throw something up quick to defend himself if he was Mafia or just sheeped one of the existing wagons harder. VE raises good points in GM's apparent confidence then turnaround thorough lack of when actually pressed to give real content. But I feel better about LSB than GM.
/Curu
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Yeah, it's buyer's remorse.
Okay guys, let it be known that I'm compromising and my preferred lynch is GM at this point.
##Unvote: GMarshal
##Vote: LSB
I hope you're wrong about this WBG, because I find myself also wary of chicanery during the building of this wagon. And let it be known that even with my vote, we're like around 35% short of what we actually need to lynch.
Basically, I'm ashamed of the activity of this town. For shame, vets. 
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On December 22 2011 09:30 VisceraEyes wrote:
Do you not share any of WBG's concerns about LSB Jackal? Is there any reason you prefer an LSB vote to a GM vote?
It's simple. I can't kill them all today. If LSB flips scum (And I'm damn near positive he will.) his flip implicates several others.
Foolishness.
GMarshall
GGQ
To start.
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On December 22 2011 09:42 VisceraEyes wrote:Yeah, it's buyer's remorse. Okay guys, let it be known that I'm compromising and my preferred lynch is GM at this point. ##Unvote: GMarshal##Vote: LSBI hope you're wrong about this WBG, because I find myself also wary of chicanery during the building of this wagon. And let it be known that even with my vote, we're like around 35% short of what we actually need to lynch. Basically, I'm ashamed of the activity of this town. For shame, vets.
wait, you hope I'm wrong about LSB being scum?
good god that's a terrible thing to say
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The most damning thing in LSB's play is that he has not actively pushed any lynch. I haven't actually played with him on day 1 before in a game I remember (he replaced in in steamship, and while his initial case on me was wrong, it was very aggressive). But I'd expect him to be actively trying to get his number one scumread (which seems to be sandroba/curu) lynched.
I also very much disagree with sandroba/curu being any kind of scummy. I actually have a pretty strong town read on them, my second strongest town read after Syllo I guess. All he did was accuse them of bandwagoning a case.
##Unvote
##Vote LSB
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I hope you're wrong about your anxiety regarding the LSB wagon. :S I hope you're RIGHT that he's scum.
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On December 22 2011 09:42 Jackal58 wrote:
Foolishness.
Yes.
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Palmar if I may be so bold, what gives you a stronger town read from SLJ and Syllo than, say, me?
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On December 22 2011 09:44 Palmar wrote:
The most damning thing in LSB's play is that he has not actively pushed any lynch. I haven't actually played with him on day 1 before in a game I remember (he replaced in in steamship, and while his initial case on me was wrong, it was very aggressive). But I'd expect him to be actively trying to get his number one scumread (which seems to be sandroba/curu) lynched.
I also very much disagree with sandroba/curu being any kind of scummy. I actually have a pretty strong town read on them, my second strongest town read after Syllo I guess. All he did was accuse them of bandwagoning a case.
##Unvote
##Vote LSB
The most damning thing on LSBs play is he hasn't tunneled RoL into fucking oblivion on day 1. And vice versa.
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On December 22 2011 09:45 VisceraEyes wrote:
Palmar if I may be so bold, what gives you a stronger town read from SLJ and Syllo than, say, me?
He's gonna post the Hitler video again.
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Let it be known that Foolishness and Sheth have not voted yet.
Also bum doesn't appear on the voting list from what I can tell, but I think he voted. Wrong format, perhaps.
Foolishness, Sheth, any explanation for your lack of vote so far? Late votes and vote reasons make it difficult for town to read you.
Foolishness, you of all people should know this.
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On December 22 2011 09:45 VisceraEyes wrote:
Palmar if I may be so bold, what gives you a stronger town read from SLJ and Syllo than, say, me?
They make sense in a townie way, and I agree with most or all of their reads. Especially Syllo's thoughts about the game. Just the few back and forth posts between me and him today especially reinforce my read, I doubt he would engage himself in those if he was scum. He'd probably dodge them or give more ambiguous answers.
You don't make sense, but you don't make sense in a kind-of-a-townie way. I disagree with a fuckton of shit you do and say, so there is still a chance this is some new scum play.
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