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On November 25 2011 20:06 sandroba wrote:
There are many problems with this plan. You have to make the whole town agree on the people that should be lynched/shot on the day before. This is by itself non optimal, because you are using one shot vigs on day one and deciding who you are going to lynch with a LOT less information. Day 2 we will 8 kp and possibly roleblocks/hits/claims to analyse. Also we have no idea of mafia roles. Let's supose your propose list has 1 mafia in it and mafia has 2 medics. They can saffely assign the other medic and a framer to a townie, and if that person ends up being hit people will obviously want to lynch him the next day.
This wastes yet another day and his flip does not contribute anything towards revealing sanity, because it could have been tempered with in the previous night or not. The flips of any of the people in the list similarly contribute nothing to clearing sanity.
Example: Sane dt checks framed red -> returns inocent. Said red gets shot/lynched->flips red->sane dt thinks he is naive/insane.
The correct way to use DTs this game:
You check into people you think are suspicious. You don't breadcrumb your role. You breadcrumb your check the next day. You simply say something along the lines: I think X is scum/town because of Y. Or whatever other clever way you can come up with. Be active and contribute in the thread. This will not be suspicious to the mafia because other townies do this all the time. There is a fuckton of people saying they think one player or the other is scum/innocent. Now you ask me how do we figure this guy's sanity? Said DT will at some point claim/die. At that point we look at the breadcrumbs and compare it to the flips in the game so far. We piece toghether the current info and deduce the sanity, the same way a DT would deduce his own sanity. There is no rush for confirming sanities and by focusing on doing so you waste a FUCKTON of information for no benefit. This is a huge, long game. Long term benefits FAR outwheight short term gain to have a DT say "Hey I'm sane and I found 1 single scum, yay", even if such plan to get early sanities was reliable. If we have a bulk of information we can clear/condemn a lot of players with very high likelyhood and get a much better perspecctive on the game as a whole, resulting in nailing much more mafia in the end.
Your bolded phrase is wrong -_- horrrrrrrribly horrrribly wrong. check how the dt sanities work before making random statements like that.
a paranoid/naive dt you do not want breadcrumbing checks period. IT fucks with the town and forces them to come out late game with "im a x dt and all my reads up till now could be moot" and if that player has been pushing anyone shit gets fucked. In a game where you have millers, gf, framers and sanities you really do not want to wait long term in hopes that dts can figure their sanity out quickly as to not fuck with the town more than the mafia already is.
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On November 25 2011 20:13 supersoft wrote:
Okay. I am in for executing wbgs DT/Vig-plan.
I guess you forgot to add, that the DTs check another target of that list (the one they didn't get with the coinflip procedure) at N2, am I right? I just want to have things clear.
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Palmar, I am willing to stick with you as mayor if you deliver some more names and work with us on that scumlist. I think this is priority #1.
yeah, coinflip to pick one target n1, then whoever they didn't check, they check the next night.
That ensures that if there are two DTs in the same list of 8-10 players then they have a chance at checking two different players rather than the same player on the same night. This means scum cannot manipulate their checks as easily.
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On November 25 2011 20:20 Cwave wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2011 19:36 wherebugsgo wrote:
#1 is youngminii. I've already stated why he is scummy, look into my filter if you desire a reiteration. If anyone has questions, please ask. If he ends up being the day 1 lynch then obviously we can't use him in this plan, but if not I think he should be in there.
#3 is Blind_Rawr. He showed up, said "things are getting interesting really fast" and then was gone. He was enthusiastic to play but he's been completely absent. He's done nothing. Good bet for a shot n2, and I bet even a lurker vig could shoot him if he's still relatively inactive by then.
Questions, concerns? On youngminii i don't agree with you. Noone is this loud from the start when he is scum. That would be too weird. With Blind_Rawr i agree that his shotgun visit and vague lines like "things are getting interesting really fast" are tells and he is high scum potential. About Palmar, i've been reading previous games he has played here @ TL and if he is red and becomes mayor, i fear for us all. He seems not afraid to push for lynches and whether the outcome is good or bad for the town, he shows confidense and walltexting to push on. If he is really a fellow townie, that will problaly lead to some good scumhunting. I don't see good alternatives for mayor atm so i have to leave my vote on him.
Don't use absolutes. The simple fact that you are trying to tell me that no one is that loud as scum is really funny, because I am one of the loudest scum players you will ever meet.
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On November 25 2011 20:22 wherebugsgo wrote:
Don't use absolutes. The simple fact that you are trying to tell me that no one is that loud as scum is really funny, because I am one of the loudest scum players you will ever meet.
As i haven't played mafia games with you before, i wouldn't know.
So, are you telling me you are gonna show me this game how loud you can be as scum? :O
In short, you are scum??
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On November 25 2011 20:19 wherebugsgo wrote:
I never said anything about DTs actually claiming.
All that has to be true for my plan to work is that 20% of the players in the list are scum.
In a list of 10 people, that's 2. In a list of 10 scummy people, I imagine that number will hopefully be at least 3 or 4, if not even 5 or 6. It's not an unreasonable expectation, since we're not blindly picking 10 people. Hell, even if we blindly picked 10 people the plan would still work. It wouldn't be optimal, but it would still work on pure statistics.
Also, the likelihood of all the same DT's targets getting framed both nights is incredibly unlikely. Remember that the DTs will check TWO people on TWO nights. All of them will have TWO DIFFERENT checks. Yes, a frame might mess some things up. That's fine though, because a frame would mess things up no matter what. In this case if there are scum in the list then their teammates will likely frame them BOTH nights. That means the rest of the players who are being checked will be completely untouched. Sounds fine to me, IMO.
Why would they frame the players both nights? You are establishing how DTs will works and that you have the intention of killing off people on the list regardless. Checks without flips do nothing to confirm sanity. So mafia will simply frame randomly on that list. That means any sanity "confirmation" you have is worth shit, because you told mafia how DTs would act and gave them the chance to tamper with it. How is framing the 2 mafia on the list advantegeous to the mafia? You won't wait for DTs to claim their checks to kill people off, so that means framing that way provides no advantage at all. Mafia will simply frame randomly and that will mean any sanity confirmation that came to those peoples flips will be 100% unreliable and likely wrong. Remember this is a no pm game and no one will know all the checks to compare unless people claim. That means this is stricktly inferior to checking without a predefined list, since mafia has to guess who is going to be checked, and the likelyhood of framer interfearance is much lower. And guess what, DTs are going to check into suspicious people anyway.
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On November 25 2011 20:21 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2011 20:06 sandroba wrote:
There are many problems with this plan. You have to make the whole town agree on the people that should be lynched/shot on the day before. This is by itself non optimal, because you are using one shot vigs on day one and deciding who you are going to lynch with a LOT less information. Day 2 we will 8 kp and possibly roleblocks/hits/claims to analyse. Also we have no idea of mafia roles. Let's supose your propose list has 1 mafia in it and mafia has 2 medics. They can saffely assign the other medic and a framer to a townie, and if that person ends up being hit people will obviously want to lynch him the next day.
This wastes yet another day and his flip does not contribute anything towards revealing sanity, because it could have been tempered with in the previous night or not. The flips of any of the people in the list similarly contribute nothing to clearing sanity.
Example: Sane dt checks framed red -> returns inocent. Said red gets shot/lynched->flips red->sane dt thinks he is naive/insane.
The correct way to use DTs this game:
You check into people you think are suspicious. You don't breadcrumb your role. You breadcrumb your check the next day. You simply say something along the lines: I think X is scum/town because of Y. Or whatever other clever way you can come up with. Be active and contribute in the thread. This will not be suspicious to the mafia because other townies do this all the time. There is a fuckton of people saying they think one player or the other is scum/innocent. Now you ask me how do we figure this guy's sanity? Said DT will at some point claim/die. At that point we look at the breadcrumbs and compare it to the flips in the game so far. We piece toghether the current info and deduce the sanity, the same way a DT would deduce his own sanity. There is no rush for confirming sanities and by focusing on doing so you waste a FUCKTON of information for no benefit. This is a huge, long game. Long term benefits FAR outwheight short term gain to have a DT say "Hey I'm sane and I found 1 single scum, yay", even if such plan to get early sanities was reliable. If we have a bulk of information we can clear/condemn a lot of players with very high likelyhood and get a much better perspecctive on the game as a whole, resulting in nailing much more mafia in the end. Your bolded phrase is wrong -_- horrrrrrrribly horrrribly wrong. check how the dt sanities work before making random statements like that. a paranoid/naive dt you do not want breadcrumbing checks period. IT fucks with the town and forces them to come out late game with "im a x dt and all my reads up till now could be moot" and if that player has been pushing anyone shit gets fucked. In a game where you have millers, gf, framers and sanities you really do not want to wait long term in hopes that dts can figure their sanity out quickly as to not fuck with the town more than the mafia already is.
I don't think it is wrong. I know how sanity works. Please explain me how it works then.
Host, can you please clarify this?
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On November 25 2011 20:33 sandroba wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2011 20:19 wherebugsgo wrote:
I never said anything about DTs actually claiming.
All that has to be true for my plan to work is that 20% of the players in the list are scum.
In a list of 10 people, that's 2. In a list of 10 scummy people, I imagine that number will hopefully be at least 3 or 4, if not even 5 or 6. It's not an unreasonable expectation, since we're not blindly picking 10 people. Hell, even if we blindly picked 10 people the plan would still work. It wouldn't be optimal, but it would still work on pure statistics.
Also, the likelihood of all the same DT's targets getting framed both nights is incredibly unlikely. Remember that the DTs will check TWO people on TWO nights. All of them will have TWO DIFFERENT checks. Yes, a frame might mess some things up. That's fine though, because a frame would mess things up no matter what. In this case if there are scum in the list then their teammates will likely frame them BOTH nights. That means the rest of the players who are being checked will be completely untouched. Sounds fine to me, IMO. Why would they frame the players both nights? You are establishing how DTs will works and that you have the intention of killing off people on the list regardless. Checks without flips do nothing to confirm sanity. So mafia will simply frame randomly on that list. That means any sanity "confirmation" you have is worth shit, because you told mafia how DTs would act and gave them the chance to tamper with it. How is framing the 2 mafia on the list advantegeous to the mafia? You won't wait for DTs to claim their checks to kill people off, so that means framing that way provides no advantage at all. Mafia will simply frame randomly and that will mean any sanity confirmation that came to those peoples flips will be 100% unreliable and likely wrong. Remember this is a no pm game and no one will know all the checks to compare unless people claim. That means this is stricktly inferior to checking without a predefined list, since mafia has to guess who is going to be checked, and the likelyhood of framer interfearance is much lower. And guess what, DTs are going to check into suspicious people anyway.
Do you agree that there are unlikely to be more than 2 framers in this game?
If so, at most only four different people can be framed. I am advocating we check/shoot/lynch at least 8, if not 10 (I actually prefer 10, for a few reasons)
As you said, checks without flips are rather useless. However, if scum are in the list of players, why the hell would scum take the risk of randomly framing? They would do what is most in their interest; they would frame their own member both nights. There is still a chance they won't get shot, and there is still a chance they will only be checked by one DT. However, the point is that they don't know which night they will be checked and they don't know how many DTs will check them. It could be 2 DTs checking them, it could be 1, it could be none. They could be checked both nights, only checked one, or never checked at all. In this case they're not going to play with chance. They're going to frame their scumbuddy both nights so he doesn't appear red. Occam's Razor. Random framing doesn't make sense.
Since the likelihood of scum being in these lists is much higher than not being in the list (since we're using behavioral analysis to peg these players) we actually REDUCE the risk that things may screw up the checks. Uncoordinated DTs still have to worry about millers. Coordinated DTs don't have to worry about this issue as much because their targets are very likely to flip on the same day they get the results back.
As you said, sanity checks are useless without flips. So then why let DTs just aim for whoever? It is very unlikely their targets will flip until later in the game, which means they need to wait for a time, during which they might possibly die and we lose all potential information. Hunting for breadcrumbs in a game this size will be nearly impossible. We won't have time to reread the thread thoroughly looking for stuff every time a blue flips. Scum has much more ability in this setup to find blues like that, so breadcrumbing is clearly not optimal for townies.
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also deciding on 10 people will not be hard, I do not imagine. We already have four, for example. Adding six to that pool in...36? hours won't be difficult at all.
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United Kingdom10823 Posts
I do something slightly distracting like sleep, and I miss 9 pages...
On November 25 2011 20:06 sandroba wrote:
Example: Sane dt checks framed red -> returns inocent. Said red gets shot/lynched->flips red->sane dt thinks he is naive/insane.
I really want some clarification on this point, because I doesn't make sense to me. Firstly, would the town be willing to lynch an innocent-returned player, framed or not, to check for sanity only? If the scenario occurred, I would have thought the town would come to 2 conclusions:
1. The red was framed
2. The DT is naive/insane
In this case, the DT could go rogue for a while, and check on players targeted for lynching/shooting and start to confirm his role through that? As is stated, it is a long terms game, so early establishment on his/her own would definitely be useful, as early lynches won't be as productive, especially with the number of new players in here.
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On November 25 2011 20:50 Hassybaby wrote:I do something slightly distracting like sleep, and I miss 9 pages... Show nested quote +On November 25 2011 20:06 sandroba wrote:
Example: Sane dt checks framed red -> returns inocent. Said red gets shot/lynched->flips red->sane dt thinks he is naive/insane.
I really want some clarification on this point, because I doesn't make sense to me. Firstly, would the town be willing to lynch an innocent-returned player, framed or not, to check for sanity only? If the scenario occurred, I would have thought the town would come to 2 conclusions: 1. The red was framed 2. The DT is naive/insane In this case, the DT could go rogue for a while, and check on players targeted for lynching/shooting and start to confirm his role through that? As is stated, it is a long terms game, so early establishment on his/her own would definitely be useful, as early lynches won't be as productive, especially with the number of new players in here.
You can't rely 100% on power roles, and this case is no exception.
If the player was in the list of potential scum to begin with, that means there was existing, logical behavioral analysis that showed how they were pushing a scum agenda and were a danger to town.
Thus, even an innocent check would not change the fact that their play is damaging to town. The best way to deal with such players is to kill them. If they're town you can, of course, try to see if they'll shape up over time, but that's generally only used with reads that are incomplete or tentative. In a game of this scope, it will not be hard to find 10 people who are clearly not playing with town's interests at heart.
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sorry I realized I probably didn't answer that question satisfactorily...
if there's an innocent check on a player who is on that scumlist and they didn't die the previous night, they should be suspected, and we can choose to kill them if necessary. Of course we might choose not to kill them if they are acting differently.
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On November 25 2011 20:38 sandroba wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2011 20:21 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On November 25 2011 20:06 sandroba wrote:
There are many problems with this plan. You have to make the whole town agree on the people that should be lynched/shot on the day before. This is by itself non optimal, because you are using one shot vigs on day one and deciding who you are going to lynch with a LOT less information. Day 2 we will 8 kp and possibly roleblocks/hits/claims to analyse. Also we have no idea of mafia roles. Let's supose your propose list has 1 mafia in it and mafia has 2 medics. They can saffely assign the other medic and a framer to a townie, and if that person ends up being hit people will obviously want to lynch him the next day.
This wastes yet another day and his flip does not contribute anything towards revealing sanity, because it could have been tempered with in the previous night or not. The flips of any of the people in the list similarly contribute nothing to clearing sanity.
Example: Sane dt checks framed red -> returns inocent. Said red gets shot/lynched->flips red->sane dt thinks he is naive/insane.
The correct way to use DTs this game:
You check into people you think are suspicious. You don't breadcrumb your role. You breadcrumb your check the next day. You simply say something along the lines: I think X is scum/town because of Y. Or whatever other clever way you can come up with. Be active and contribute in the thread. This will not be suspicious to the mafia because other townies do this all the time. There is a fuckton of people saying they think one player or the other is scum/innocent. Now you ask me how do we figure this guy's sanity? Said DT will at some point claim/die. At that point we look at the breadcrumbs and compare it to the flips in the game so far. We piece toghether the current info and deduce the sanity, the same way a DT would deduce his own sanity. There is no rush for confirming sanities and by focusing on doing so you waste a FUCKTON of information for no benefit. This is a huge, long game. Long term benefits FAR outwheight short term gain to have a DT say "Hey I'm sane and I found 1 single scum, yay", even if such plan to get early sanities was reliable. If we have a bulk of information we can clear/condemn a lot of players with very high likelyhood and get a much better perspecctive on the game as a whole, resulting in nailing much more mafia in the end. Your bolded phrase is wrong -_- horrrrrrrribly horrrribly wrong. check how the dt sanities work before making random statements like that. a paranoid/naive dt you do not want breadcrumbing checks period. IT fucks with the town and forces them to come out late game with "im a x dt and all my reads up till now could be moot" and if that player has been pushing anyone shit gets fucked. In a game where you have millers, gf, framers and sanities you really do not want to wait long term in hopes that dts can figure their sanity out quickly as to not fuck with the town more than the mafia already is. I don't think it is wrong. I know how sanity works. Please explain me how it works then. Host, can you please clarify this?
Keep in mind I am referencing my style of plan before WBG as his nulls my reason for saying you had it wrong.
As no one else seems to like my idea, this also fucks it up the ass.
IF you had a list of say 2-3 players, and all dts are narrowed in on that list. You essentially bottleneck the framer correct? those 2-3 players will almost surely be suspect players to begin with, also correct?
So if your a sane dt and check player x who flips red to your check, and you know the framer was almost certaintly there. You just instantly narrowed your sanity. IF you saw red when you should have seen green you know instantly you are one of two roles sane/paranoid/insane. If you know the target was framed this reduces you to sane/paranoid except paranoid dts cannot actually see anything but red. So any check after your first one (especially on a framed target) clears you. Non framed targets put you on sane/naive and insane/paranoid which takes longer to clear out. Sane/paranoid or insane/naive clears you in two checks unless you get horribly unlucky by hitting another framed player. If your sane in the sane/paranoid slot and find a legit red on your second find then yes you could be "what am I' the guy flipping clears that. IF you ever check and discover a green however (which is more than likely) your cleared.
proposed dt check list early on slots you instantly into 1 of 2 sanities. This means as a town we have done almost all the work the dt would have to do to narrow it down from 4 to 3 to 2 to 1 down to 1 in two game days. As the people on those checks will be suspect and potentially lynched/shot through by beginning of day 3 every dt should have their sanity cleared out.
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The problem with using only 2-3 players is that there easily could be two framers.
Imagine you use two players, both get framed both nights.
Then all the DTs will get the opposite results and they'll all be screwed when the flips come. Only paranoids will know what they are and paranoids generally are the fastest to figure themselves out anyway.
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Mafia won't necessarily frame their members, because you intend to kill them off regardless of any checks already. Also DTs will not claim so deciding on who to lynch on the list won't relly on checks. You are putting something out there and giving mafia all the info they need to effectively conuter it.
WBG, tell how the DT will figure out their sanity reliably based on that. Let's assume 2 framers, so you have 4 frames in that period. I realize that on average 60% of the DTs won't have their checks fucked with. My question to you is how the hell do the know if their checks have been fucked with or not? It DOES NOT CONFIRM any single one of their sanities.
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On November 25 2011 21:02 wherebugsgo wrote:
The problem with using only 2-3 players is that there easily could be two framers.
Imagine you use two players, both get framed both nights.
Then all the DTs will get the opposite results and they'll all be screwed when the flips come. Only paranoids will know what they are and paranoids generally are the fastest to figure themselves out anyway.
with 2 players and both framed you end up with people still linked to sane/paranoid and naive/insane.
second check clears out you instantly provided you check outside a regular list or into a larger one. if you check a non framed target and he flips you are down to 3 sanities. and depending on your next check you are reduced to two. Framed targets remove sane and insane from being related to eachother completely while linking them to a sanity that lets them clear their own sanity in a single following check.
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On November 25 2011 20:28 Cwave wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2011 20:22 wherebugsgo wrote:
Don't use absolutes. The simple fact that you are trying to tell me that no one is that loud as scum is really funny, because I am one of the loudest scum players you will ever meet. As i haven't played mafia games with you before, i wouldn't know. So, are you telling me you are gonna show me this game how loud you can be as scum? :O In short, you are scum??
That's bad logic, don't do it.
WBG is telling the truth, he's loud as scum.
He's also loud as town.
His tell is whether or not he's dumb. If he's dumb, he's scum, if he's smart and logical, he's town.
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On November 25 2011 20:58 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2011 20:38 sandroba wrote:On November 25 2011 20:21 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On November 25 2011 20:06 sandroba wrote:
There are many problems with this plan. You have to make the whole town agree on the people that should be lynched/shot on the day before. This is by itself non optimal, because you are using one shot vigs on day one and deciding who you are going to lynch with a LOT less information. Day 2 we will 8 kp and possibly roleblocks/hits/claims to analyse. Also we have no idea of mafia roles. Let's supose your propose list has 1 mafia in it and mafia has 2 medics. They can saffely assign the other medic and a framer to a townie, and if that person ends up being hit people will obviously want to lynch him the next day.
This wastes yet another day and his flip does not contribute anything towards revealing sanity, because it could have been tempered with in the previous night or not. The flips of any of the people in the list similarly contribute nothing to clearing sanity.
Example: Sane dt checks framed red -> returns inocent. Said red gets shot/lynched->flips red->sane dt thinks he is naive/insane.
The correct way to use DTs this game:
You check into people you think are suspicious. You don't breadcrumb your role. You breadcrumb your check the next day. You simply say something along the lines: I think X is scum/town because of Y. Or whatever other clever way you can come up with. Be active and contribute in the thread. This will not be suspicious to the mafia because other townies do this all the time. There is a fuckton of people saying they think one player or the other is scum/innocent. Now you ask me how do we figure this guy's sanity? Said DT will at some point claim/die. At that point we look at the breadcrumbs and compare it to the flips in the game so far. We piece toghether the current info and deduce the sanity, the same way a DT would deduce his own sanity. There is no rush for confirming sanities and by focusing on doing so you waste a FUCKTON of information for no benefit. This is a huge, long game. Long term benefits FAR outwheight short term gain to have a DT say "Hey I'm sane and I found 1 single scum, yay", even if such plan to get early sanities was reliable. If we have a bulk of information we can clear/condemn a lot of players with very high likelyhood and get a much better perspecctive on the game as a whole, resulting in nailing much more mafia in the end. Your bolded phrase is wrong -_- horrrrrrrribly horrrribly wrong. check how the dt sanities work before making random statements like that. a paranoid/naive dt you do not want breadcrumbing checks period. IT fucks with the town and forces them to come out late game with "im a x dt and all my reads up till now could be moot" and if that player has been pushing anyone shit gets fucked. In a game where you have millers, gf, framers and sanities you really do not want to wait long term in hopes that dts can figure their sanity out quickly as to not fuck with the town more than the mafia already is. I don't think it is wrong. I know how sanity works. Please explain me how it works then. Host, can you please clarify this? Keep in mind I am referencing my style of plan before WBG as his nulls my reason for saying you had it wrong. As no one else seems to like my idea, this also fucks it up the ass. IF you had a list of say 2-3 players, and all dts are narrowed in on that list. You essentially bottleneck the framer correct? those 2-3 players will almost surely be suspect players to begin with, also correct? So if your a sane dt and check player x who flips red to your check, and you know the framer was almost certaintly there. You just instantly narrowed your sanity. IF you saw red when you should have seen green you know instantly you are one of two roles sane/paranoid/insane. If you know the target was framed this reduces you to sane/paranoid except paranoid dts cannot actually see anything but red. So any check after your first one (especially on a framed target) clears you. Non framed targets put you on sane/naive and insane/paranoid which takes longer to clear out. Sane/paranoid or insane/naive clears you in two checks unless you get horribly unlucky by hitting another framed player. If your sane in the sane/paranoid slot and find a legit red on your second find then yes you could be "what am I' the guy flipping clears that. IF you ever check and discover a green however (which is more than likely) your cleared. proposed dt check list early on slots you instantly into 1 of 2 sanities. This means as a town we have done almost all the work the dt would have to do to narrow it down from 4 to 3 to 2 to 1 down to 1 in two game days. As the people on those checks will be suspect and potentially lynched/shot through by beginning of day 3 every dt should have their sanity cleared out.
Sigh, you don't KNOW the target was framed, how are you supposed to know that, you don't even know if such a role is present in this game. Framer + sanity is insanity and you add millers and gf on top of that.
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You're missing the point Sandroba.
If we do this, we focus town on a few select individuals, which leads to order, which leads to discussion, which is good. And since the plan can not easily be manipulated we'll be fine.
I will be posting the first suggestion for a list candidate soon-ish, and yes, you guessed it, it'll be youngminii.
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It doesn't guarantee confirmation, but almost all of them will see at least one of their targets flip on day 3.
Any sane cop who strikes red and green will have confirmation.
Any insane cop who strikes red and green will have confirmation.
Any paranoid cop will have confirmation (though this is moot)
The only case we have to worry about with this plan is the one where one of our DTs checks two people, one who flips green and one who flips red, where both checks are green. Either the DT is naive or the DT is sane but the red target was framed.
Well, imagine we didn't coordinate and the cop has two checks but no flips. How is that better than having 2 checks who have BOTH flipped, or even only one has flipped? In the case with the two flips the DT can rule out millers. The DT can rule out insanity. The DT can usually rule out framing on at least one target. In the case without flips the DT cannot do either of these things and must guess.
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EPT
