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On November 28 2011 01:25 Steveling wrote:
So I don't quite get this. You post a list with people you believe that play the game well and you want to protect them in case they are town?
I think forming lists so early in the game is just meant to guide people according to your plans.
Yep.
I don't want people to protect them in case they're town. I want people to analyse them and figure out which ones of them might be town. Without having the time to write up extensive analysis, I'd say for example prplhz and deconduo are pretty scummy out of that list.
It's pretty simple, just like the request I made of blind-rawr, all I am doing is encouraging people to read, analyse, post and contribute to the game. Make independent, but informed decisions. The DT check list is also meant to help with that. There my goal is to give 10 players who have questionable or scummy play up until now, because those will more likely be the focus of town lynches/kills, and thus having them checked helps deducing one's sanity.
DTs and medics are free to ignore my advice, but they must have solid reasons for the targets they choose. I would suggest every DT, Hatter, Medic, rolecop etc, should note down a few sentences in a private document, justifying their actions to themselves.
If later in the game they're forced to roleclaim or something, they will be hanged if they claim to have done something that cannot be justified. For example, any doc who claims to have protected someone who hasn't posted on night 1, is going to be hanged, because it's not a believable claim.
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No, I can't. And you should know that this list you are trying to make based on day 1 reads is worthless. I realize that you are spending a lot of time in this game, but I'm reaching the conclusion that time is being converted towards making you look good, not effectivelly trying to catch scum. You know what you should be doing if you wanted to get things done and have all this time available is trying to find a really strong case for a single scum and from there derive information on others. That's normally what's expected of day1 play, finding one obvious scum in this mess that made a mistake and captalizing on it, not building 50 weak cases on "suspicious day1 people". That doesn't help shit.
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On November 28 2011 01:31 vaderseven wrote:
If I see another post telling town power roles who to target I am going to flip a desk. Directing town power roles is scummy in that it it falsely gives the appearance of helping to increase the effectiveness of their abilities. Directing town power roles is only going to help set up a dual pattern of power roles doing what the thread tells them, thus making them easy as fuck to predict as scum. Stop directing power roles RIGHT NOW.
No, you're wrong.
Flip desks all you want, that won't make you right. Lists are helpful, because no one has carefully read through the posts of 80 people. I have information that is relevant to those who have power roles. The decision is ultimately theirs, they can choose to ignore my advice, that doesn't mean town is better off without information.
Adding Cwave and Zeks to my DT check list.
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On November 28 2011 01:34 sandroba wrote:
No, I can't. And you should know that this list you are trying to make based on day 1 reads is worthless. I realize that you are spending a lot of time in this game, but I'm reaching the conclusion that time is being converted towards making you look good, not effectivelly trying to catch scum. You know what you should be doing if you wanted to get things done and have all this time available is trying to find a really strong case for a single scum and from there derive information on others. That's normally what's expected of day1 play, finding one obvious scum in this mess that made a mistake and captalizing on it, not building 50 weak cases on "suspicious day1 people". That doesn't help shit.
This will happen tomorrow. There is no huge reason to build a case right now since we have no means of doing anything about it even if I prove someone is scum.
My time is best spent doing exactly what I am doing now. At least at the moment.
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Also sorry for the pissy mood. I'm just hungover like hell.
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Palmar, I would like you to comment on serejai, read my filter for my case on him.
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Okay, I will not have time to post much until closer to the deadline. This game is really fucking big and it's hard to get things done.
Here is the current list of targets who look bad, and are thus likely to be at least scrutinized, even flipped.
BLinD-RawR
deconduo
Hier
Tyrran
bonifaceviii
Zeks (sandroba's addition)
Cwave (gave me his vote with no second thought and disappeared)
That leaves three spots on the list. Wherebugsgo gets one, Jackal58 gets one and BloodyC0bbler gets one. Should they not provide a candidate for the list, we're going with prplhz (for scummy shit around the elections), Coagulation (for refusing to post, especially as scum), and Lemonwalrus (for not providing any content to the game).
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On November 28 2011 01:41 sandroba wrote:
Also sorry for the pissy mood. I'm just hungover like hell.
whenever you write something like this could you mind putting some content in the post as well? thanks
or you could maybe explain to me why one liners like this are helpful and why my long post about the quality of the thread should be completely disregarded?
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On November 27 2011 23:15 layabout wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2011 14:27 Mr. Wiggles wrote:On November 27 2011 14:12 annul wrote:
when are inactivity modkills gonna be revealed? We're currently looking for replacements. Any slots we don't have replacements for should be modkilled on Day 2. Whilst the risk of this happening should have been somewhat apparent due to the large number of players and the rapidly growing thread i feel i need to draw some attention to this issue. Namely we currently stand to lose a number of players to modkillsi have identified several possible reasons for this: Show nested quote +On November 27 2011 11:52 Soap wrote:On November 27 2011 11:05 wherebugsgo wrote:3. SoapOne game-relevant post. Two posts about timestamps. Useless. Again, an excellent lurker-bane shot. Sorry if I didn't make myself clear in my first post. As a newbie I know nothing metagame, which is about everything this early. If I go out of my way to catch up with the veterans, bad analysis would harm town and good analysis would make mafia drop me in ten seconds flat. Once we have actual hard data to put against what I'm witnessing first hand I can make myself useful. Show nested quote +On November 27 2011 15:27 Mattchew wrote:
I honestly do not know what to say in this thread. I have no feelings as to who is scum and who is town, I don't want to point fingers and end up being wrong because I don't truly understand what I am reading. there have been multiple post such as this one, we have very little information day1 and it is only natural to feel like you cannot add to discussion and at the same time you do not wish to derail it or appear "scummy" and end up making town waste a lynch and end your game because you make a mistake. This is bad! You should be contributing all you can BUT still this stance is not hard to understand there have also been a number of players referring to past experiences or games they have shared with other players. This may well be helpful to you if your are/were involved but this shared past history makes players appear to be part often established community that is highly critical of its members and thus discourages newbies from joining in, there have also been several aggressive shouting matches between players, this post from GM says it all Show nested quote +On November 25 2011 09:56 GMarshal wrote:
Any further mudslinging from either of you (wbg and redff) is going to result in my wrath. If you can't say things in a civil manner then stay the hell out of my thread. Consider this your first and only warning, lighting looms on the horizon. lastly even though it doesn't take a genuis to figure out that this will involve a lot of reading at the time of writing this we approach the 100th page (though the first 20-24 were pre-game) and we haven't yet reached day 2.Much of this may have been useful dicussion but there is also a sizable number of one liners, unsupported and unproductive statements, trolls insults and general useless crap. I really feel that we should address this last point in particular and i feel this filter is a prime example of the useless crap that is wasting our time and costing us noobs: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=285690&user=81734also: assume you are a noob entering your first mafia game and you get a red or a blue role! You are likely to feel important as you get to make or contribute to life or death decisions, you get to make calls in secret and you have to carefully consider your actions and their implications... the game is interesting and you get to play an interesting part in it. Contrast this with the vanilla townie role in which you have to argue with established aggressive arrogant players you feel you will be ignored and you may or may not be struggling to keep up with the thread and you are not sure what to search for when making reads because before starting you have perhaps only read LSB's newbie guide (wich bears no relation to Ver's guide) and 1-3 full games at best.i realise that modkills may hurt mafia just as much but if it favors one side to me at least it seems that modkills would be more likely to work against town. + Show Spoiler +side note: if you haven't read a noob guide please do so, and if you are playing in a way that isn't helpful you might benefit from a read too
this post is a load of scummy disraction bullshitness
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On November 28 2011 01:38 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 01:31 vaderseven wrote:
If I see another post telling town power roles who to target I am going to flip a desk. Directing town power roles is scummy in that it it falsely gives the appearance of helping to increase the effectiveness of their abilities. Directing town power roles is only going to help set up a dual pattern of power roles doing what the thread tells them, thus making them easy as fuck to predict as scum. Stop directing power roles RIGHT NOW. No, you're wrong.Flip desks all you want, that won't make you right. Lists are helpful, because no one has carefully read through the posts of 80 people. I have information that is relevant to those who have power roles. The decision is ultimately theirs, they can choose to ignore my advice, that doesn't mean town is better off without information. Adding Cwave and Zeks to my DT check list.
No he's right.
Your arrogance is amazing.
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On November 28 2011 01:31 vaderseven wrote:
If I see another post telling town power roles who to target I am going to flip a desk. Directing town power roles is scummy in that it it falsely gives the appearance of helping to increase the effectiveness of their abilities. Directing town power roles is only going to help set up a dual pattern of power roles doing what the thread tells them, thus making them easy as fuck to predict as scum. Stop directing power roles RIGHT NOW.
THIS
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On November 28 2011 01:38 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 01:31 vaderseven wrote:
If I see another post telling town power roles who to target I am going to flip a desk. Directing town power roles is scummy in that it it falsely gives the appearance of helping to increase the effectiveness of their abilities. Directing town power roles is only going to help set up a dual pattern of power roles doing what the thread tells them, thus making them easy as fuck to predict as scum. Stop directing power roles RIGHT NOW. No, you're wrong. Flip desks all you want, that won't make you right. Lists are helpful, because no one has carefully read through the posts of 80 people. I have information that is relevant to those who have power roles. The decision is ultimately theirs, they can choose to ignore my advice, that doesn't mean town is better off without information. Adding Cwave and Zeks to my DT check list.
Where does this "information" come from?
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+ Show Spoiler +On November 28 2011 01:54 sinani206 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2011 23:15 layabout wrote:On November 27 2011 14:27 Mr. Wiggles wrote:On November 27 2011 14:12 annul wrote:
when are inactivity modkills gonna be revealed? We're currently looking for replacements. Any slots we don't have replacements for should be modkilled on Day 2. Whilst the risk of this happening should have been somewhat apparent due to the large number of players and the rapidly growing thread i feel i need to draw some attention to this issue. Namely we currently stand to lose a number of players to modkillsi have identified several possible reasons for this: On November 27 2011 11:52 Soap wrote:On November 27 2011 11:05 wherebugsgo wrote:3. SoapOne game-relevant post. Two posts about timestamps. Useless. Again, an excellent lurker-bane shot. Sorry if I didn't make myself clear in my first post. As a newbie I know nothing metagame, which is about everything this early. If I go out of my way to catch up with the veterans, bad analysis would harm town and good analysis would make mafia drop me in ten seconds flat. Once we have actual hard data to put against what I'm witnessing first hand I can make myself useful. On November 27 2011 15:27 Mattchew wrote:
I honestly do not know what to say in this thread. I have no feelings as to who is scum and who is town, I don't want to point fingers and end up being wrong because I don't truly understand what I am reading. there have been multiple post such as this one, we have very little information day1 and it is only natural to feel like you cannot add to discussion and at the same time you do not wish to derail it or appear "scummy" and end up making town waste a lynch and end your game because you make a mistake. This is bad! You should be contributing all you can BUT still this stance is not hard to understand there have also been a number of players referring to past experiences or games they have shared with other players. This may well be helpful to you if your are/were involved but this shared past history makes players appear to be part often established community that is highly critical of its members and thus discourages newbies from joining in, there have also been several aggressive shouting matches between players, this post from GM says it all On November 25 2011 09:56 GMarshal wrote:
Any further mudslinging from either of you (wbg and redff) is going to result in my wrath. If you can't say things in a civil manner then stay the hell out of my thread. Consider this your first and only warning, lighting looms on the horizon. lastly even though it doesn't take a genuis to figure out that this will involve a lot of reading at the time of writing this we approach the 100th page (though the first 20-24 were pre-game) and we haven't yet reached day 2.Much of this may have been useful dicussion but there is also a sizable number of one liners, unsupported and unproductive statements, trolls insults and general useless crap. I really feel that we should address this last point in particular and i feel this filter is a prime example of the useless crap that is wasting our time and costing us noobs: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=285690&user=81734also: assume you are a noob entering your first mafia game and you get a red or a blue role! You are likely to feel important as you get to make or contribute to life or death decisions, you get to make calls in secret and you have to carefully consider your actions and their implications... the game is interesting and you get to play an interesting part in it. Contrast this with the vanilla townie role in which you have to argue with established aggressive arrogant players you feel you will be ignored and you may or may not be struggling to keep up with the thread and you are not sure what to search for when making reads because before starting you have perhaps only read LSB's newbie guide (wich bears no relation to Ver's guide) and 1-3 full games at best.i realise that modkills may hurt mafia just as much but if it favors one side to me at least it seems that modkills would be more likely to work against town. + Show Spoiler +side note: if you haven't read a noob guide please do so, and if you are playing in a way that isn't helpful you might benefit from a read too this post is a load of scummy disraction bullshitness
why do you think this?
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Any list of players posted by anyone for the sake of encouraging blue actions upon said players should be heavily suspected of being mafia. I'm not saying this because I'm on such a list, I rather enjoy being on one; it merely means there is a higher chance I will get framed, rather than shot in the middle of the night. Any townie kills that the mafia don't have to do directly is advantageous for mafia, since that way they get to use their nightly shots on people not likely of being lynched.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50099 Posts
On November 28 2011 01:41 sandroba wrote:
Also sorry for the pissy mood. I'm just hungover like hell.
your drunk posts were funny.
ok so since palmar absolutely wanted me to(I wanted to wait a bit more and gather more info).I'll give you guys a few of my reads.
Serejai-I'd say that he is really suspicious and should be on your list palmar,he claims that everyone that ran for mayor other than sinani and BC are mafia scum,going as far to out annul who came into the game as a replacement to some other person.Hes a really bad troll or a terrible mafia either way he is scummy.
Coming back to BC,while I don't find him to be scummy based on his posts I feel that his sudden rise on votes is suspicious.
+ Show Spoiler +On November 26 2011 08:35 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Voting Count Update
Palmar - 20
Palmar
supersoft
RogerX
Cwave
IMABUNNEH
mcht
ohN
dmans
Drazerk
Toadesstern
Daymor
Benjef
StimilantE
AmericanUmlaut
Mattchew
Erandorr
DeadlyPsycho
risk.nuke
hyshes
Risen
Sandroba - 11
Ciryandor
The1stNewbie
syllogism
DeadlyPsycho
youngminii
layabout
tube
Soap
Holyflare
BLinD-RawR
Chanyman
Xtfftc
Kurumi
BloodyC0bbler - 5
Pigsquirrel
BloodyC0bbler
Kenpachi
wherebugsgo
t3tsubo
GreYMisT - 3
GreYMisT
spartan N30
Mattchew
cosine
redFF - 1
redFF
Risen
Erandorr - 0
hyshes
Sinani206 - 2
Serejai
sinani206
prplhz - 1
jaybrundage
xtfftc - 1
Nisani201
kitaman27 - 1
StimilantE
wherebugsgo - 2
Bonifaceviii
kitaman27
annul – 2
Annul
Deconduo
Kurumi – 0
Kurumi
If there are any mistakes, please let me know.
If you have not yet voted, please do so before the deadline.
to this
+ Show Spoiler +On November 27 2011 12:07 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Final Vote Tally for Day 1
Palmar - 20
Palmar
supersoft
RogerX
Cwave
IMABUNNEH
mcht
ohN
dmans
Drazerk
Toadesstern
Daymor
Benjef
StimilantE
AmericanUmlaut
Mattchew
Erandorr
DeadlyPsycho
risk.nuke
hyshes
Risen
Zeks
Unsmart
Coagulation
TheToast
Pigsquirrel
minus_human
intrigue
Match
Sandroba – 12
risk.nuke
Palmar
Ciryandor
The1stNewbie
syllogism
DeadlyPsycho
youngminii
layabout
tube
Soap
Holyflare
BLinD-RawR
Chanyman
Xtfftc
Kurumi
Lemonwalrus
Hier
BloodyC0bbler - 14
Pigsquirrel
BloodyC0bbler
Kenpachi
wherebugsgo
t3tsubo
hyshes
minus_human
Kurumi
Toadesstern
Tnkted
Jackal58
Bumatlarge
Intrigue
Lemonwalrus
Hassybaby
sinani206
GreYMisT – 6
GreYMisT
spartan N30
Mattchew
Cosine
Prplhz
ey215
layabout
jaybrundage
redFF - 0
redFF
Risen
Erandorr - 0
hyshes
Sinani206 - 3
Serejai
sinani206
Soap
youngminii
prplhz - 0
jaybrundage
xtfftc - 1
Nisani201
kitaman27 - 5
StimilantE
redFF
layabout
Risen
Match
wherebugsgo - 3
Bonifaceviii
kitaman27
Sprungjeezy
Toadesstern
annul – 3
Annul
Deconduo
LSB
Kurumi – 0
Kurumi
Vaderseven – 1
Vaderseven
tree.hugger – 1
tree.hugger
Serejai – 1
Serejai
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On November 28 2011 01:58 sinani206 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 01:38 Palmar wrote:On November 28 2011 01:31 vaderseven wrote:
If I see another post telling town power roles who to target I am going to flip a desk. Directing town power roles is scummy in that it it falsely gives the appearance of helping to increase the effectiveness of their abilities. Directing town power roles is only going to help set up a dual pattern of power roles doing what the thread tells them, thus making them easy as fuck to predict as scum. Stop directing power roles RIGHT NOW. No, you're wrong. Flip desks all you want, that won't make you right. Lists are helpful, because no one has carefully read through the posts of 80 people. I have information that is relevant to those who have power roles. The decision is ultimately theirs, they can choose to ignore my advice, that doesn't mean town is better off without information. Adding Cwave and Zeks to my DT check list. Where does this "information" come from?
i think you already know the answer to this question
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50099 Posts
got classes in the morning,will probably have time to see the outcome of night one before that though.
GN/Gday everyone.
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On November 28 2011 02:19 annul wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 01:58 sinani206 wrote:On November 28 2011 01:38 Palmar wrote:On November 28 2011 01:31 vaderseven wrote:
If I see another post telling town power roles who to target I am going to flip a desk. Directing town power roles is scummy in that it it falsely gives the appearance of helping to increase the effectiveness of their abilities. Directing town power roles is only going to help set up a dual pattern of power roles doing what the thread tells them, thus making them easy as fuck to predict as scum. Stop directing power roles RIGHT NOW. No, you're wrong. Flip desks all you want, that won't make you right. Lists are helpful, because no one has carefully read through the posts of 80 people. I have information that is relevant to those who have power roles. The decision is ultimately theirs, they can choose to ignore my advice, that doesn't mean town is better off without information. Adding Cwave and Zeks to my DT check list. Where does this "information" come from? i think you already know the answer to this question
lol stop hinting bullshit, either you're not thinking it through or you're deliberatly misleading yourselves AND others.
the so called information comes from research. If you actually think that was a scumslip made by palmar you should get your head examined.
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On November 28 2011 01:47 Palmar wrote:
Okay, I will not have time to post much until closer to the deadline. This game is really fucking big and it's hard to get things done.
Here is the current list of targets who look bad, and are thus likely to be at least scrutinized, even flipped.
BLinD-RawR
deconduo
Hier
Tyrran
bonifaceviii
Zeks (sandroba's addition)
Cwave (gave me his vote with no second thought and disappeared)
That leaves three spots on the list. Wherebugsgo gets one, Jackal58 gets one and BloodyC0bbler gets one. Should they not provide a candidate for the list, we're going with prplhz (for scummy shit around the elections), Coagulation (for refusing to post, especially as scum), and Lemonwalrus (for not providing any content to the game).
Wowowo, all nice and lovely you want to get me engaged more in this game(i assume thats why you list me) but not under the argument that "i gave it no thought and disappeared" cause that is not true. Of everyone who ran for mayor i actually have experience with you in mafia games(outside of TL but whatever) and i know you make a good mayor. Seeing the other candidates and their advertising for it, you were the only option that struck me as usefull for the townies.
On the other hand I must admit i'm a bit overwhelmed by the sheer volume of posts as i've not been in a game this big and as a result í've been lurking more then i normally would. As someone else pointed out, after day/night1 when all you old-timers are done with your courting ritualsspam for the game-start, i'm convinced more new guys will speak up.
Having said this, i think Hier is a very good check. His way of dealing with attacks and the argumentation following it are signs of mafiablood in his veins. He doesn't really counterargument the attack but redirects. If you're green, there is no need for redirection.
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EPT
