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On November 28 2011 00:52 Palmar wrote:Btw, docs: syllogism jackal sandroba tyrran risk.nuke wherebugsgo kitaman27 redFF prplhz deconduo These guys are all good players. I am posting this list with complete disregard of their alignment. But if you want to protect someone, you should read the filters for these players ( Link to all filters ) And deduce which ones are town and which ones are scum. These people are all worth protecting if they're town.
I feel insulted
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who cares about that shit
if im blue, i know i surely wont be using any stupid thing like a "omg check these people" list. neither should anyone else.
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On November 28 2011 02:37 annul wrote:
who cares about that shit
if im blue, i know i surely wont be using any stupid thing like a "omg check these people" list. neither should anyone else.
Well , would you mind giving reasons? If you are completely new at this game and stumble into a blue role , don't you think it is very helpful to get some guidance. He didn't say what blues should to specificly, just giving them a general idea.
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On November 28 2011 02:40 Erandorr wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 02:37 annul wrote:
who cares about that shit
if im blue, i know i surely wont be using any stupid thing like a "omg check these people" list. neither should anyone else. Well , would you mind giving reasons? If you are completely new at this game and stumble into a blue role , don't you think it is very helpful to get some guidance. He didn't say what blues should to specificly, just giving them a general idea.
I would hope those individuals would have the wherewithal to ask the hosts for a little bit of guidance. Not take direction from any active players.
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palmar didnt specifically that time, no. but people have done so in the past in this game.
also, this game is hosted by 4 people -- i suggest if you are confused about your role, or general strategy for it, you can ask any of them and they will give you help without compromising game integrity
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United Kingdom10823 Posts
Mods, how far would you consider going to help the new players with their roll allocations?
For reference
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if i were a mod, i would find a skilled player not in the game and not privy to the role list and id designate them the go-to person.
or if someone good dies night 1 flipping green, withhold the role list from them and they can do it
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On November 28 2011 01:38 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 01:31 vaderseven wrote:
If I see another post telling town power roles who to target I am going to flip a desk. Directing town power roles is scummy in that it it falsely gives the appearance of helping to increase the effectiveness of their abilities. Directing town power roles is only going to help set up a dual pattern of power roles doing what the thread tells them, thus making them easy as fuck to predict as scum. Stop directing power roles RIGHT NOW. No, you're wrong. Flip desks all you want, that won't make you right. Lists are helpful, because no one has carefully read through the posts of 80 people. I have information that is relevant to those who have power roles. The decision is ultimately theirs, they can choose to ignore my advice, that doesn't mean town is better off without information. Adding Cwave and Zeks to my DT check list.
This isn't about lists you idiot. You are directing power roles not making analysis of players.
The amount of self respect you give yourself combined with people saying you know how to play had me fooled. You are tempting me to start helping you out by posting links to hundreds of mafia FAQs on what is scummy and pro scum and what isn't scummy and pro town.
Let me make it clear Palmer / Rest of Thread:
Directing town power roles reduces the effectiveness of said power roles more so than anything else in the game. There is mafia medics, mafia roleblockers, and mafia framers.
Making lists that people might blindly follow is making those mafia power roles have a super easy time and increases their effectiveness while directly hurting the town roles effectiveness.
When you direct a town power role in the thread you reduce that power role's effectiveness. This means that everytime you you post a list of directions for our power roles you are accomplishing two things. You are making it look like this is good advice for power roles to increase their effectiveness while in reality reducing their effectiveness.
In essence, directing a power role makes you look good while actually doing 100% the opposite of what it looks like you are doing. It is INSANELY scummy.
The 'mayor' is not above being lynched for being HUGELY scummy so just stop. If you are town you are fucking up the fact that town has the mayorship so just stop.
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On November 28 2011 02:37 annul wrote:
who cares about that shit
if im blue, i know i surely wont be using any stupid thing like a "omg check these people" list. neither should anyone else.
Thats the flipside to this idiot idea of directing roles that aren't yourself. Our power roles will be MOST EFFECTIVE when NOTHING about their choices of targets is hinted at in the slightest.
Maybe the mafia will be stupid enough to help us out like Palmer is helping them and post lists of people that want to kill so our power roles can counter them.
You can WIFOM this ofc but that is pointless and in practice directing roles produces more positive results for the mafia than the town so don't be like well mafia knows directing roles is bad so they will ignore those posts.
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On November 28 2011 02:33 Erandorr wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 00:52 Palmar wrote:Btw, docs: syllogism jackal sandroba tyrran risk.nuke wherebugsgo kitaman27 redFF prplhz deconduo These guys are all good players. I am posting this list with complete disregard of their alignment. But if you want to protect someone, you should read the filters for these players ( Link to all filters ) And deduce which ones are town and which ones are scum. These people are all worth protecting if they're town. I feel insulted
we all are
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Yes, I actually thought about the trade 2/6 double lynch tradeoff while I was gone and reached the same conclusion as sandroba. That is to say, it's not optimal to delay the first lynch even if we know we'll get to use all of our lynches eventually.
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On November 28 2011 01:38 Palmar wrote:
no one has carefully read through the posts of 80 people. I have information that is relevant to those who have power roles.
Also that is actually factually wrong. Its not hard when you realize how many are lurkers and use a script to open every filter (thanks for that google doc whoever did that again ^_^).
Stop acting like god it either annoys people or turns out to be wrong and auto loses the game if we have enough lemmings in here.
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Honestly i think directing the power roles is a trade-off it can be argued both ways.
On November 28 2011 01:31 vaderseven wrote:
If I see another post telling town power roles who to target I am going to flip a desk. Directing town power roles is scummy in that it it falsely gives the appearance of helping to increase the effectiveness of their abilities. Directing town power roles is only going to help set up a dual pattern of power roles doing what the thread tells them, thus making them easy as fuck to predict as scum. Stop directing power roles RIGHT NOW.
For one it does give mafia information they can utilize. Knowing where to direct there resources is helpful to them increasing the chances that there power roles can counter us. However the flip side is that new players prolly wont know who to check anyway. Lets be honest this is a shit load of pages. Giving new players guidance is ofc going to help them. So in that sense the list helpful.
And while some of the new players can follow lists that have been provided. It still leaves the more expericanced power role players to not utilize the list and decide who to protect/check/kill on there own judgement. And in that sense it is very WIFOM as was stated.
I thinking giving a list isn't bad because it gives newer players the ability to use it if they dont feel confident on there own decision making while at the same time letting more experienced players decide on there own and can use someone on the list if they choose while ofc having the choice to branch out of it as well.
Regardless it would be awesome if a DT could check WBG imo. For reasons i stated previously.
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It would be a trade off cept roles get used every night. Once our power roles follow peoples directions even once then we have set an easy way for the mafia to predict things from then on.
Saying that having a list is easier for a new player is just scummy as hell. New players, if you don't know who to use your power on, find a Random Number Gen online and use it to pick from the player list.
That advice has the same chance of finding scum and it has 0% chance to be abused by the mafia.
The only way to get a better chance of finding scum while still have 0% chance to be abused by the mafia is for the power roles to ACT ON INFORMATION OR HUNCHES THAT THEY COME UP WITH.
You guys that are saying hey check THIS GUY or THAT GUY are suggesting the method that has the highest rate of being abused by the mafia.
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Less drama more actual discussion yes?
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If you mean drama = discussing how valid it is to direct our power roles when we are talking during night 0 then I dont see what is left to discuss.
The most important thing right now is how people choose their targets because even talking about whop to lynch now is silly seeing as there is power roles with info coming before the next lynch and even if they dont claim thier role a detective that hits scum might focus in and help uncover scummyness of a player.
In short, right now the discussion should be basically dead but instead there is some players trying to control the actions of the most important town players and that is a hugely risky and bad move.
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right now there is very little to discuss other than strategy.
the big action is gonna come in 8 hours 20 minutes. we will get more info at that point than at any other point in the game.
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United Kingdom10823 Posts
I was going to ask about that
What....are we actually supposed to do during the night? I understand the blues should be sing their powers, but what about everything else?
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EPT
