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On October 14 2011 22:18 Scamp wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2011 21:59 sandroba wrote:
I have my own reasons for not running and spreading out votes pretty much ensures scum gets elected. You can trust me when I say both syllo and mig are town and that makes them who should be elected. Not by this logic, unless the votes are spread waaaaay thin. Mafia are in groups of four, no way they can swing an election that much.
There are 16 townie votes. Let's say they spread out between 5 candidates which is natural and the most likely to happen. There only needs to be 2 scum from different families on that candidate poll to ensure they both get elected if mafia wants it. Or if there is only one scum which is unlikely that means 1 elected position will most likely be scum.
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I can understand running for election.
What I can't understand is running with someone else together for election. I can't understand how someone can inherently trust someone else to be so town that they can automatically. I can't understand trying to force other people not to run by force.
+ Show Spoiler [Convo with Sandroba about election] +[7:32:40 AM] Sandro Maculan: hahaha
[7:33:02 AM] Sandro Maculan: man you think you have a shot at mayor?
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[7:35:36 AM] Chaosers: nvm lol, old game
[7:35:41 AM] Chaosers: and yes
[7:35:46 AM] Chaosers: i think i have a shot at mayor
[7:35:52 AM] Chaosers: why would i not have a shot at mayor?
[7:36:03 AM] Chaosers: if i didn't think i had a shot at mayor i wouldn't be running
[7:36:05 AM] Sandro Maculan: cuz you have no presence in thread =P
[7:36:23 AM] Sandro Maculan: as opposed to me/rad/jimbo
[7:37:17 AM] Chaosers: so by that logic mig shouldn't have a shot either
[7:37:23 AM] Chaosers: syllo either
[7:37:25 AM] Sandro Maculan: yes
[7:37:31 AM] Sandro Maculan: but I'm supporting him
[7:37:36 AM] Sandro Maculan: and I can convince many
[7:37:38 AM] Sandro Maculan: =P
[7:37:41 AM] Chaosers: go ahead
[7:37:53 AM] Chaosers: why are you tryign to scare me off from running?
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[7:41:07 AM] Chaosers: right now you're literally saying, no one should run except syllo and mig
[7:41:21 AM] Sandro Maculan: people may say I'm sure XY is mafia I'm not voting him
[7:41:22 AM] Chaosers: or implying it
[7:41:26 AM] Sandro Maculan: yes
[7:41:29 AM] Sandro Maculan: that's what I'm saying
I can't understand how this would be one of the main points in convincing someone they are town
+ Show Spoiler [Syllo/Sandroba convo] +[7:46:58 AM] Sandro Maculan: I know syllo from a long time
[7:47:18 AM] Sandro Maculan: let me copy you the thing
[7:48:06 AM] Sandro Maculan: [10/13/2011 3:10:55 PM] syllogism: what if i make a 100% guarantee that i'm town, just this once
[10/13/2011 3:11:12 PM] Sandro Maculan: huh?
[10/13/2011 3:11:14 PM] syllogism: i won't ever use it again in another game because it's kind of destroys my meta
[10/13/2011 3:11:38 PM] Sandro Maculan: and you wouldn't do that as mafia
[10/13/2011 3:11:47 PM] syllogism: i wouldn't no
[10/13/2011 3:11:54 PM] Sandro Maculan: how can I trust that
[10/13/2011 3:11:56 PM] Sandro Maculan: ...
[10/13/2011 3:12:09 PM] Sandro Maculan: I would lie to you if I was mafia
[10/13/2011 3:12:13 PM] syllogism: well the thing is I'm saying I won't do this in the future
[10/13/2011 3:12:16 PM] Sandro Maculan: Why would you not?
[10/13/2011 3:12:17 PM] syllogism: because it's cheap
[10/13/2011 3:12:28 PM] Sandro Maculan: why are you doing it right now
[10/13/2011 3:12:34 PM] syllogism: because i feel like it
[10/13/2011 3:12:43 PM] Sandro Maculan: okay
[10/13/2011 3:12:50 PM] Sandro Maculan: but I will take this personally
[10/13/2011 3:12:56 PM] Sandro Maculan: if you are lying like this
[10/13/2011 3:13:07 PM] Sandro Maculan: =P
[10/13/2011 3:13:31 PM] syllogism: yes exactly, this is why i wouldnt do this as mafia
[10/13/2011 3:13:35 PM] syllogism: and which is why i wont do it again
[10/13/2011 3:13:40 PM] syllogism: because then i would have to do it as scum too
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
I'd be more than happy if mafia families voted for their own candidates. Makes our job quite easier. For all the electoral candidates, please incidate if its the mayoral role or the pardoner role that you are after. We don't want to reward someone who acts like they are running for mayor and ends up with pardoner, unless they state that is what they are going after. If you're running for pardoner, please state under what conditions you would use your power. If you're running for mayor, please state how you intend to use your lynch.
Something I mentioned earlier is that we could all vote for the mayor outside the voting thread and then unanimously elect that person based on whoever wins, without anybody voting a second place to deny the pardoner role. The only flaw I can see is that if there is a scum politiciain role, they will control who recieves the power. Its probably unlikely that a scum politician would be willing to connect himself with someone from his own family so I think its something we should consider.
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3 separate scum teams of 4 people each. Why wouldn't each team put forth 2 candidates?
We have 7 people running. Which one is town? Scum are pretty much guaranteed to grab mayor or pardoner or both. Scum team that gets pardoner has a huge advantage over the other 2 teams. Makes me want to vote for Ace.
I'm actually leaning towards voting for somebody that has shown no desire to run for mayor. Because I think the probability of 6 of the current candidates being scum is damn near 100%.
Scamp, Bugs, Decon, Foolishness. All good choices.
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Elections are all about trust. If every town aligned player decided to run rather than supporting someone with a better chance at winning who also appears town for whatever reason, town would have no hope in electing one of their own.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Arcticod, you claim to havehad a convo with syllo in which made you think he is very likely town. I would like to see this and see if I can draw the same coclusions. Please PM me your chat log, though obviously feel free to redact any info you deem especially sensitive.
Same goes for syllo and mig. I'd like to see the convo that leads you both to thinking the other is town. Redact as necessary. PM me or send it over skype, whichever keeps the formatting best.
Syllo I will respond to your post in due time. I am on my touch right now. I will say this though, I added you on skype immediately after talking with mig last night.
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There's nothing at all in my conversation with Arctocod that says anything about my alignment. It does say about his, however. He refused to talk openly and rather decided to hide behind his gimmick and fake identity. Haven't seen him on irc since then.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
I'm not surprised.
Will you pass on your mega-convo you had with Mig?
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No, though you may make specific inquiries over skype
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On October 14 2011 22:04 syllogism wrote:
Only sandroba has been talking about 99% probability, so you are twisting our words for your own benefit. I've also not said anything about Sandroba's alignment. Also it's interesting that you made those conclusions without actually being in contact with me in any way (you did add me on skype and admittedly our time zones aren't compatible; PMs are however an option).
I'm not running for mayor, though I certainly would push for my election as well if I could do it at this juncture but the votes aren't there. Thus I'm doing the next best thing; attempting to elect someone who I've the strongest town read of. I think he has a better chance at getting elected, which is mostly why I'm not running myself.
Can you please elaborate on what you think our alignments are? Do you think me and mig are scum buddies and just being extremely daring? You did mention that you think one or both of us is scum and trying to "to ride the coattails of the strong pro-town player into Office". Who is the strong pro-town player then and which one is latching onto him? Mig didn't even want to run and I pushed him into it. You aren't very consistent and coherent with your accusations, which is quite scummy.
My intention was not to twist your words. You are indicating that you have a lot of trust in Mig at a point in the game when I think that amount of trust is unfounded. Not to mention it happens to be for a player who I found to be somewhat scummy both in his in-thread play, as well as the conversation I had with him last night.
Same goes for Sandro, though I see now why he believes you to be 99% town(his chat log). That at least makes sense. However, it doesn't really make sense to support a third party(Mig) just because a trusted player seems to think they are legit. Unless Mig also used his one-time-only-100% town card.
As far as your alignments, I don't have concrete reads on any of you. However i'm sure you can see where my suspicions come from when we have 3 players all(or mostly) thinking each other are town, at a time in the game when those type of certainties shouldn't exist.
I'll quote my thoughts on you from my convo with Mig:
I'll tell you what I think about syllo:
he buddied both plans, mine and sandro's, while offering little commentary on either
he also posted a bunch of info on roles/picking without giving any analysis or commentary
he also made an extremely pro-town point about the framer, and it's potential to screw with town
he also tend to be only moderately active early game as a townie, so he fits that mold fine
However, this in nowhere near enough to make a read. In my opinion, making reads based on PM/IRC/Skype instead of on contributions in thread is a bad plan, and doomed to screw you over.
Last game in LOTR i convinced Sandro that i was town through Skype
yet before that he was convinced I was scum based off my in game play
If pressed I would say i had a slightly pro-town read on you, add in your statement to sandro, and I would say you are probably town.
Mig on the other hand is different. As of last night he had contributed very little, in a set-up where I would think he would be chomping at the bit to optimize our picking plans. My conversation with him also leads me to think he is scummy. I'm happy to PM you those logs.
Also, the fact that he didn't want to run for mayor makes me more likely to think of him as scum then as town. Mafia want to avoid the spotlight, but if a townie comes up and says 'hey, run for mayor, i'll support you' then what scum would refuse? Mig is a strong player, why was he shying away from running in the first place?
Sandro I think is likely town. He vehemently argued against my plan, and bullied me over in Skype. He proposed a well-thought out plan, and you can tell he put a lot of thought into it. Could he be scum? In this set-up of course, but he's well off my list for now. The one question mark i had was his sudden flip to pushing you/mig as elected roles, but that is mainly cleared up.
Any further questions? Anything I miss?
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On October 14 2011 23:07 syllogism wrote:
No, though you may make specific inquiries over skype
Why do you think Mig is town?
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I honestly think that its ridiculous that syllo can have such a strong town read on someone from just pm's like 24 hours into the game.
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plus its funny because mig and syllo always work together in pm games.
this still stands and im waiting
On October 14 2011 22:07 JACCUZISPLAT wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2011 20:55 Arctocod wrote:On October 14 2011 20:46 Scamp wrote:
Trusting someone's judgement just because they are town is idiotic. On the contrary, at this point I have very little to go by except the election posts themselves. The only people I have been in contact with outside of this thread are Syllogism, Kitaman27 and DropBear. I have a reason to believe Syllogism is town. I also believe Syllogism has an excellent nose for Mig's alignment in PM games, so by extension Mig must be town. While I would myself rather talk directly to Mig, until I have been in contact with him, I find Syllogism's judgement to be good enough proof, seeing as he is one of the best players in this game. However, what is your purpose, trying to cloud my judgement, why do you step in to cast doubt upon something that I have good reasons to do? 1.link me to a pm game where syllogism has found mig to be scum 2.prove a point 3.then maybe ill listen to you
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On October 14 2011 23:47 JACCUZISPLAT wrote:plus its funny because mig and syllo always work together in pm games. this still stands and im waiting Show nested quote +On October 14 2011 22:07 JACCUZISPLAT wrote:On October 14 2011 20:55 Arctocod wrote:On October 14 2011 20:46 Scamp wrote:
Trusting someone's judgement just because they are town is idiotic. On the contrary, at this point I have very little to go by except the election posts themselves. The only people I have been in contact with outside of this thread are Syllogism, Kitaman27 and DropBear. I have a reason to believe Syllogism is town. I also believe Syllogism has an excellent nose for Mig's alignment in PM games, so by extension Mig must be town. While I would myself rather talk directly to Mig, until I have been in contact with him, I find Syllogism's judgement to be good enough proof, seeing as he is one of the best players in this game. However, what is your purpose, trying to cloud my judgement, why do you step in to cast doubt upon something that I have good reasons to do? 1.link me to a pm game where syllogism has found mig to be scum 2.prove a point 3.then maybe ill listen to you
I do not have extensive knowledge of past games!
But I did simply as Syllogism, and he doesn't recall playing in a PM game where he was town and Mig was scum, so I am unable to provide what you requested!
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Yo guys it's 9 am here and I have all my hw due and like five classes today. I won't be on for another 8-10 hours or so.
I can honestly say I don't particularly like any of the current mayoral candidates. However, based on PMs I have a potential vote; there are one or two candidates that are more likely to be town than the others. We'll see how things go.
Everyone thinks syllo is town but there is still doubt for me about him, Mig, and a lot of other players.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Despite the fact that this in a PM game, we need way more people posting in thread. Plenty of players have been almost completely absent so far.
Mayoral voting will be one of the most important ways to link scum together in the long run. Since scum are likely to vote for their buddies, we can glean a lot of info from today. If scum decide NOT to vote for their buddies, that makes it more likely for us to log two townies into the elected roles. Either way this election is extremely important for town, so people need to start talking.
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United States22154 Posts
I am running for pardoner, vote for me!
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People should NOT be voting for Mig/Syllo/Sandroba. It's the first day in a game with multiple factions, no one should be trusting anyone at this point. I don't think all of those three are scum, however I'd bet at least one of them is and since I'm not sure who, there's no way I'll vote for any of them. Mig and I had a conversation on IRC where he told me he really didn't want to be mayor but syllo was pushing him hard. When I asked him why syllo was pushing so hard he said because syllo was sure he was town because of skype conversations. Sandroba is probably the one I'm least suspicious of right now so if I had to pick one of these three for scum it'd be syllo.
Also Arcotcod,
On October 14 2011 20:55 Arctocod wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2011 20:46 Scamp wrote:
Trusting someone's judgement just because they are town is idiotic. On the contrary, at this point I have very little to go by except the election posts themselves. The only people I have been in contact with outside of this thread are Syllogism, Kitaman27 and DropBear. I have a reason to believe Syllogism is town. I also believe Syllogism has an excellent nose for Mig's alignment in PM games, so by extension Mig must be town. While I would myself rather talk directly to Mig, until I have been in contact with him, I find Syllogism's judgement to be good enough proof, seeing as he is one of the best players in this game.However, what is your purpose, trying to cloud my judgement, why do you step in to cast doubt upon something that I have good reasons to do?
This bolded part is the scummiest thing I've read all game. Just because you think syllo is town does in no way mean mig is also town. Especially considering you've never talked to mig.
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hey I'd like to make a request
Can we see the logs between syllo and Mig? One of you should post a large subsection of this 10 hour conversation so we can see for ourselves why syllo thinks Mig is town
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EPT
