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syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
October 14 2011 19:59 GMT
#581
I never said I didn't talk to him about the game, you are imagining things. Mig said we talked a lot non-game related things, but that's about it.

It's you who is dodging. Explain how a townie gets elected without other townies voting for him and thus at least to a degree trusting him.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
October 14 2011 20:09 GMT
#582
Syllo are you going to post any of your logs with Mig?

While I did say that I thought Mig was townie earlier yesterday, after talking to him more and from thinking about the plans that have been brought up I'm currently unsure.

I'm not willing to simply take your word that Mig is town, and no one else should be dumb enough to do that either.
Mr. Wiggles
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada5894 Posts
October 14 2011 20:11 GMT
#583
On October 15 2011 04:59 syllogism wrote:
I never said I didn't talk to him about the game, you are imagining things. Mig said we talked a lot non-game related things, but that's about it.

It's you who is dodging. Explain how a townie gets elected without other townies voting for him and thus at least to a degree trusting him.

Where does that come in? Of course, you need other people to vote for you, but mig wasn't even running at that point. You claim that there wouldn't be votes for you, without even trying to secure votes. You said that the only real criteria for voting someone in is that they are town. So, you and mig were on an equal playing field as far as elections go, but instead of nominating yourself, a known quantity, you nominate mig, who you do not know the alignment of. That doesn't make sense. Maybe if he started a campaign, and already had momentum, I could understand you supporting him and not running if you got a town-vibe, but coming from someone who only wants the elected officials to be town, it seems incredibly odd that they would nominate someone else and not run themselves at that point, especially when a bs reason is given later as well.

Then add onto that you pressured mig into running, and that you refuse to share the skype convos that convinced you so much of his towniness, and I get a rather bad feeling. I'm pretty convinced you have ulterior motives behind setting up mig as mayor.
you gotta dance
Erandorr
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
2283 Posts
October 14 2011 20:14 GMT
#584
On October 15 2011 05:11 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 15 2011 04:59 syllogism wrote:
I never said I didn't talk to him about the game, you are imagining things. Mig said we talked a lot non-game related things, but that's about it.

It's you who is dodging. Explain how a townie gets elected without other townies voting for him and thus at least to a degree trusting him.

Where does that come in? Of course, you need other people to vote for you, but mig wasn't even running at that point. You claim that there wouldn't be votes for you, without even trying to secure votes. You said that the only real criteria for voting someone in is that they are town. So, you and mig were on an equal playing field as far as elections go, but instead of nominating yourself, a known quantity, you nominate mig, who you do not know the alignment of. That doesn't make sense. Maybe if he started a campaign, and already had momentum, I could understand you supporting him and not running if you got a town-vibe, but coming from someone who only wants the elected officials to be town, it seems incredibly odd that they would nominate someone else and not run themselves at that point, especially when a bs reason is given later as well.

Then add onto that you pressured mig into running, and that you refuse to share the skype convos that convinced you so much of his towniness, and I get a rather bad feeling. I'm pretty convinced you have ulterior motives behind setting up mig as mayor.


Hey Wiggles, I have a question. What do you think about Mig as candidate, ignoring what you think about syllo?
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
October 14 2011 20:16 GMT
#585
You are back to saying that every single townie should run for mayor
Mr. Wiggles
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada5894 Posts
October 14 2011 20:23 GMT
#586
On October 15 2011 05:14 Erandorr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 15 2011 05:11 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
On October 15 2011 04:59 syllogism wrote:
I never said I didn't talk to him about the game, you are imagining things. Mig said we talked a lot non-game related things, but that's about it.

It's you who is dodging. Explain how a townie gets elected without other townies voting for him and thus at least to a degree trusting him.

Where does that come in? Of course, you need other people to vote for you, but mig wasn't even running at that point. You claim that there wouldn't be votes for you, without even trying to secure votes. You said that the only real criteria for voting someone in is that they are town. So, you and mig were on an equal playing field as far as elections go, but instead of nominating yourself, a known quantity, you nominate mig, who you do not know the alignment of. That doesn't make sense. Maybe if he started a campaign, and already had momentum, I could understand you supporting him and not running if you got a town-vibe, but coming from someone who only wants the elected officials to be town, it seems incredibly odd that they would nominate someone else and not run themselves at that point, especially when a bs reason is given later as well.

Then add onto that you pressured mig into running, and that you refuse to share the skype convos that convinced you so much of his towniness, and I get a rather bad feeling. I'm pretty convinced you have ulterior motives behind setting up mig as mayor.


Hey Wiggles, I have a question. What do you think about Mig as candidate, ignoring what you think about syllo?

He hasn't given me a reason to vote for him. He didn't do anything Day 0 (Not that it counts for much anyways), and then made a mayoral campaign only after being pressured to do so, where he re-hashes a lot of ideas that have already been expressed with little new content, and explains how he's townie because syllo says so, and that he's bad scum so we shouldn't worry anyways. His next post is defending drop_bear who made a null-tell. Could be a townie trap, could actually be mafia fishing for people. That's why I don't like when people do that.

He hasn't contributed enough, or talked about the game in a substantial enough way yet for me to want to vote for him.

Also, it's a bad idea to look at him in a vacuum anyways, because the game doesn't happen in a vacuum. Especially when he was pressured to run.
you gotta dance
Mr. Wiggles
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada5894 Posts
October 14 2011 20:26 GMT
#587
On October 15 2011 05:16 syllogism wrote:
You are back to saying that every single townie should run for mayor

I'm saying that from the reasons you gave and the situation at the time, there's no reason you should have pressured mig to run for mayor instead of running yourself. You're either not telling us everything, lying, or you have different motivations for your actions than you claim.

You still haven't defended your reasons for putting mig up instead of yourself.

I said I'd discuss with town, what do they think of syllo being a lynch candidate?
you gotta dance
Cyber_Cheese
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia3615 Posts
October 14 2011 20:47 GMT
#588
At this point in time, my top three likely votes are for wiggles/radfield/jimbo.
If you were on that list, please publicly state two things for me.
The first being who you would lynch right now and why, and the second is if you could choose mayor and pardoner now, excluding yourself, who would they be and why?
The moment you lose confidence in yourself, is the moment the world loses it's confidence in you.
supersoft
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany3729 Posts
October 14 2011 20:54 GMT
#589
okay, i vote for Mig as mayor. my reasoning is simple. I know mig from former PM games and he's active all the time. I don't trust anyone because we have like a 40% scumrate. If someone disagrees with that, I am in irc for further discussion.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
October 14 2011 20:59 GMT
#590
Your only criteria for voting for someone is that you've played in previously PM games with them and that they are active all the time?
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
October 14 2011 21:08 GMT
#591
Okay. Issues I have right now:

1. In my eyes, there are literally no good reasons to be voting any of the current candidates.
2. The Mig election seems to be the one with the most support, but, again, no one seems to be providing good reasons as to why Mig should be elected.

Notably, Mig himself is absent on this. Mig as town normally is not this apathetic toward scumhunting and toward the game in general. I have doubts when his plan is to "turtle" with no real intention of looking for scum at all.

3. Yesterday I was under the impression that syllo and Mig would run together. I supported voting syllogism based on the fact that, at the time, I thought syllo was town. At this point I'm unsure on both his alignment and that of Mig's.

I find it really odd that syllo would not be running with Mig's support, rather than the other way around. In fact, I got the impression from both Mig and syllo yesterday that they would BOTH be running, and that syllogism would be the main candidate. That is clearly not the case today.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
October 14 2011 21:10 GMT
#592
I find it really odd that syllo would not be running with Mig's support, rather than the other way around. In fact, I got the impression from both Mig and syllo yesterday that they would BOTH be running, and that syllogism would be the main candidate. That is clearly not the case today.


Sorry, I crash the fuck out at like 12PM EST and have been dead/napping on my keyboard/face marked till now. At 12PM EST I was told that Syllo and Mig were running together with Syllo as likely for pardoner and Mig for mayor. Did that change?
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
October 14 2011 21:17 GMT
#593
It's clear that syllogism is not a candidate. He has no votes.
hiro protagonist
Profile Joined January 2009
1294 Posts
October 14 2011 21:19 GMT
#594
I am of the opinion that the scum teams wont try running for mayor unless they have some role combo that would stop DT checks (I doubt all three would have this). maybe 2 out of 3. maybe.

also, a lot of folks have yet to way there opinions on the election. Sooner rather than later would be good people

I am leaning towards Rad for mayor as of now, no idea for pardoner.
"I guess if you climb enough off-widths, one of these days, your gonna get your knee stuck and shit your pants. Its just an odds thing really" -Jason Kruk
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
October 14 2011 21:20 GMT
#595
Wtf why on earth would the scumteams NOT run for mayor?

Are you seriously that naive/bad?
hiro protagonist
Profile Joined January 2009
1294 Posts
October 14 2011 21:22 GMT
#596
On October 15 2011 06:20 wherebugsgo wrote:
Wtf why on earth would the scumteams NOT run for mayor?

Are you seriously that naive/bad?


I'll let you think about it for awhile...
"I guess if you climb enough off-widths, one of these days, your gonna get your knee stuck and shit your pants. Its just an odds thing really" -Jason Kruk
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
October 14 2011 21:27 GMT
#597
On October 15 2011 06:17 wherebugsgo wrote:
It's clear that syllogism is not a candidate. He has no votes.

Feel free to vote for me, but it doesn't appear likely we've enough votes to elect us both. Obviously if mig can't be elected, I would rather have me as one of the two elected roles.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
October 14 2011 21:30 GMT
#598
On October 15 2011 06:27 syllogism wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 15 2011 06:17 wherebugsgo wrote:
It's clear that syllogism is not a candidate. He has no votes.

Feel free to vote for me, but it doesn't appear likely we've enough votes to elect us both. Obviously if mig can't be elected, I would rather have me as one of the two elected roles.


This isn't what Sandroba told me.

[5:10:36 PM] Chaosers: is syllo not running anymore?
[5:12:40 PM] Sandro Maculan: let me see
[5:12:55 PM] Chaosers: and if he isn't
[5:12:59 PM] Chaosers: why isn't he running anymore
[5:15:05 PM] Sandro Maculan: oh
[5:15:11 PM] Sandro Maculan: syllo will only run
[5:15:16 PM] Sandro Maculan: if we can get both elected
[5:15:23 PM] Chaosers: we both?
[5:15:26 PM] Chaosers: you and him?
[5:15:28 PM] Chaosers: what happened to mig?
[5:15:29 PM] Sandro Maculan: if it looks like we can't only mig will run
[5:15:31 PM] Sandro Maculan: no
[5:15:36 PM] Sandro Maculan: mig and syllo
[5:15:51 PM] Sandro Maculan: if we can get them both elected
[5:15:52 PM] Chaosers: why doesn't he run regardless?
[5:16:01 PM] Sandro Maculan: I dunno
[5:16:04 PM] Chaosers: how can you ensure someone will get elected unless you run?
[5:16:05 PM] Sandro Maculan: he doesn't want to spread
[5:16:12 PM] Sandro Maculan: and run thin on votes I guess
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
October 14 2011 21:34 GMT
#599
On October 15 2011 06:22 hiro protagonist wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 15 2011 06:20 wherebugsgo wrote:
Wtf why on earth would the scumteams NOT run for mayor?

Are you seriously that naive/bad?


I'll let you think about it for awhile...


If you're implying that this is because the elected officials are likely to get alignment checked by DTs, it's a pretty weak argument.

Whichever scumteam has a GF will forsure try to get him elected as mayor.

Whichever scumteam has a framer will try to get a member elected.

Whichever scumteam has agent of chaos will also try to get him elected.

Admiral Ackbar as mayor would be good for scum as well.

Methman as mayor would be good for scum.

Vote rigger would be good for scum.

Goldman Sachs would be good for scum.

Floridian would be good for scum.

Inventor (!!) would be good for scum.

Role thief/Role swapper would be good for scum (just steal the #1 spot)

That's 11 roles that could be potentially be very dangerous for town (and not at all bad for the scumteam) if elected to mayor. All of these roles are very likely to be picked up by scum, seeing as the focus of the plans was on detective/protection roles for town. Thus, I would argue that very few of these roles are in town hands and thus we are open to political manipulation.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
October 14 2011 21:39 GMT
#600
Vote rigger, Inventor, Role thief, Role swapper, scum with framer on team, and GF are all really bad for town if they are scum and get elected.

A scum vote rigger who is in office is basically unkillable for two days. An inventor could easily screw around with town as well, since that role almost has no limit and is entirely limited by creativity alone (plus with four scum scheming they could definitely do a lot more creative things with it than a single townie) teams with GF or framer are no brainers, that basically means the mayor is uncheckable for at least the first night (for the framer)

Role thief and role swapper can be pretty bad too seeing as they can steal the #1 and then likely land the inventor role by day 2
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