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Pick Your Power Interesting! - Page 12

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Mr. Wiggles
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada5894 Posts
October 12 2011 02:59 GMT
#221
I'm spending my 3k post to tell you all how much I love you. <3

(Also because I need to play the game, and can't do that without posting. )
you gotta dance
Incognito
Profile Joined November 2008
United States2071 Posts
October 12 2011 03:04 GMT
#222
On October 12 2011 03:35 GMarshal wrote:
How does methman interact with day killing powers? Does he take them with him?

Meth Man -
You are a serious drug dealer with a serious chem lab. If anyone disturbs you cooking that stuff at night it will destroy the entire lab! If you are killed at any time besides through a lynch or nuke you go down with EVERYONE that targeted you that full cycle. So if you are DT checked night 2, and day vigi'd day 3, both the day vigi and dt die.


On October 12 2011 04:25 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
Rock Star bodyguards are taken from vanilla players-
So here's a question that likely won't need an answer but...
What happens if there aren't two vanilla roles?


If there are less than 2 vanilla roles, they will be chosen at random.

On October 12 2011 05:28 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
Which strikes me as odd, maybe this role should be named something else; eg. Tycoon?
'Politician' really should sell-out, more of a: Can gives away his vote daily -> And in a PYP that would require some sort of plus side to it to be a viable pick, probably along the lines of protecting your choice somehow


Just for you, the politician role name has been changed to The Goldman Sachs. That's right, in RED.

On October 12 2011 05:15 GreYMisT wrote:
Question about the Mad Hatter (never played a game with it before), If the Mad Hatter is lynched do his bombs go off? or is it only if he is kp'ed?


As Qatol/Flamewheel said, Mad Hatter bombs go off anytime the mad hatter dies. Roleblocking only prevents the Mad Hatter from placing/moving bombs, but does not stop explosions.
The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy
Mr. Wiggles
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada5894 Posts
October 12 2011 03:14 GMT
#223
When do cycles begin, with the day, or including the night before?
you gotta dance
JimboSilvers
Profile Joined April 2010
United Kingdom167 Posts
October 12 2011 03:20 GMT
#224
On October 12 2011 12:14 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
When do cycles begin, with the day, or including the night before?


On September 28 2011 12:22 Protactinium wrote:
[*]Time Cycle: 48/24, Deadline at 03:00 GMT (+00:00)
[/list]

On September 28 2011 12:22 Protactinium wrote:
28. Scamp
27 of 27 players remain

?


On October 12 2011 11:59 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
I'm spending my 3k post to tell you all how much I love you. <3

(Also because I need to play the game, and can't do that without posting. )

<3
Node
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States2159 Posts
October 12 2011 03:23 GMT
#225
Damn, it's been awhile since I've played. This game looks like it's gonna be more insane than Insane.
whole lies with a half smile
JimboSilvers
Profile Joined April 2010
United Kingdom167 Posts
October 12 2011 03:28 GMT
#226
Since it is going to come up, I'll say this now.

Almost half the player-base is Mafia. This makes denying powerful mafia roles nearly impossible, and not cost effective. The best course for the role picking phase will be for us to focus on getting good town roles, and letting the various mafia parties fight among themselves for the good mafia roles. (Denying each other good combos in the process)

On that note, I want to know if you guys think it's a good idea to make a coordinated list of powerful town roles, or a bad idea. The obvious upside is that if we coordinate our picks then we have a higher chance of getting more roles, but at the cost of letting every mafia knowing the general location of certain power roles.

I for one am against this sort of ordering. It's called Pick YOUR power, Not Pick THEIR Power. I'll pick my own role, thank you.
Mr. Wiggles
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada5894 Posts
October 12 2011 03:47 GMT
#227
On October 12 2011 12:28 JimboSilvers wrote:
Since it is going to come up, I'll say this now.

Almost half the player-base is Mafia. This makes denying powerful mafia roles nearly impossible, and not cost effective. The best course for the role picking phase will be for us to focus on getting good town roles, and letting the various mafia parties fight among themselves for the good mafia roles. (Denying each other good combos in the process)

On that note, I want to know if you guys think it's a good idea to make a coordinated list of powerful town roles, or a bad idea. The obvious upside is that if we coordinate our picks then we have a higher chance of getting more roles, but at the cost of letting every mafia knowing the general location of certain power roles.

I for one am against this sort of ordering. It's called Pick YOUR power, Not Pick THEIR Power. I'll pick my own role, thank you.

I thought about this, but what do you think is the possibility of mafia picking traditionally pro-town roles like DTs and Cops in order to hunt for the other scum teams?

I feel we're going to have to be very careful of attributing pro-towness to role, and avoiding the "confirmed town" mentality for DTs, even if they deliver a red to us. It will be more like they aren't part of that mafia family, more than that they become likely town.

That said, they'd still be useful, because they aren't going to hide red checks on the enemy families, and they're forced to confirm town, or lie about their own members, neither of which helps them in the long run.

So, I think a list of good town roles will be ok, so long as people are careful not to fall into the trap of role = alignment.

We should also try to take roles that are good in mafia or town hands, if possible.
you gotta dance
JACCUZISPLAT
Profile Joined October 2011
Uzbekistan76 Posts
October 12 2011 03:54 GMT
#228
since this is a pm game and #loonybin is being used for another game. i suggest we make #pypi on quakenet a channel for game discussion.
NIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIICCCCCCCCCCCCCCCEEEEEEE *Boom*
kitaman27 *
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9245 Posts
October 12 2011 03:55 GMT
#229
I'm thinking the defensive roles are going to especially powerful in this setup. The three mafia factions will likely be throwing kp at each other, so it is in town's best interest to minimize the damage done to our numbers and avoid getting caught up in the crossfire.

With only 1 kp a piece, the NRA Member becomes incredibly powerful in scum hands. If you're town, remember to send in your actions last :p

kp roles may not be as important, but I do think there is value in the Ace role. Essentially everyone can be forced to claim that they are town in the thread and the role becomes the Dreamflower role, without the penalty of death if you are incorrect.
I'm better than dirt. Well, most kinds of dirt. I mean not that fancy store bought dirt. That stuffs loaded with nutrients. I... I can't compete with that stuff.
GreYMisT
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States6736 Posts
October 12 2011 04:08 GMT
#230
On October 12 2011 12:47 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 12 2011 12:28 JimboSilvers wrote:
Since it is going to come up, I'll say this now.

Almost half the player-base is Mafia. This makes denying powerful mafia roles nearly impossible, and not cost effective. The best course for the role picking phase will be for us to focus on getting good town roles, and letting the various mafia parties fight among themselves for the good mafia roles. (Denying each other good combos in the process)

On that note, I want to know if you guys think it's a good idea to make a coordinated list of powerful town roles, or a bad idea. The obvious upside is that if we coordinate our picks then we have a higher chance of getting more roles, but at the cost of letting every mafia knowing the general location of certain power roles.

I for one am against this sort of ordering. It's called Pick YOUR power, Not Pick THEIR Power. I'll pick my own role, thank you.

I thought about this, but what do you think is the possibility of mafia picking traditionally pro-town roles like DTs and Cops in order to hunt for the other scum teams?

I feel we're going to have to be very careful of attributing pro-towness to role, and avoiding the "confirmed town" mentality for DTs, even if they deliver a red to us. It will be more like they aren't part of that mafia family, more than that they become likely town.

That said, they'd still be useful, because they aren't going to hide red checks on the enemy families, and they're forced to confirm town, or lie about their own members, neither of which helps them in the long run.

So, I think a list of good town roles will be ok, so long as people are careful not to fall into the trap of role = alignment.

We should also try to take roles that are good in mafia or town hands, if possible.


Going even further than that, the whole concept of "pro town" needs to be rethought for this game. Because scum need to kill the other scum factions, it will be rather easy for them to look "pro Town" through genuine scum-hunting. In normal games scum have to fake scum-hunt, here they do not. We cannot fall for this illusion.

Fortunalty for town, our objective is simpler than it is for scum. while scum need to blend in with the town, not draw fire, and kill all the opposing factions; all we have to do is just kill everything red. Aside from noting that scum also need to scum-hunt, I think we should not think too much about the presense of the multiple scum teams, and just treat it as one big one.
"life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery" / Join TL Mafia! http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31
kitaman27 *
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9245 Posts
October 12 2011 04:56 GMT
#231
As an aside, please try to save any pm logs you have with anyone during the course of the game.
I'm better than dirt. Well, most kinds of dirt. I mean not that fancy store bought dirt. That stuffs loaded with nutrients. I... I can't compete with that stuff.
Node
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States2159 Posts
October 12 2011 04:57 GMT
#232
I actually don't think DT roles are a good idea at all for the mafia, unless used in conjunction with the Assassin. They don't need to identify who they're shooting, they just need to be the last men standing. Think about it from a mafia point of view -- in what situation would you rather have a role/alignment check than a gun? It could potentially be useful for building town cred, yes, but town cred ain't all it used to be.
whole lies with a half smile
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
October 12 2011 05:05 GMT
#233
We should make a general tier list of roles as it will definitely help avoiding conflicts and overall help players who aren't familiar with the roles and their utility. Ver's PYPI postgame list is a good starting point

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=235829


That is not to say you have to pick according to any tier list, just encouraged, and we should mix in defensive roles among the top tier. Further, I encourage everyone to read the role list rather carefully, as even standard roles may function in surprising ways. For instance framer

You have the power to change how one's alignment and role appears to any detective type actions performed on them that night. You may use it on one person per night and may not use it on yourself. In addition, you may also choose to have your framed target visit anyone you choose. Any actions they perform will also be misdirected. Your target will also show up to watcher and tracker reports.

Meanwhile watcher is completely useless
You are the god damn Batman! At night you can choose to watch a player and receive information in the form of how many people visited that person. You must write a short and colorful story whenever you publish your results.


I will be on skype and later today on irc
Cyber_Cheese
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia3615 Posts
October 12 2011 05:14 GMT
#234
On October 12 2011 13:08 GreYMisT wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 12 2011 12:47 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
On October 12 2011 12:28 JimboSilvers wrote:
Since it is going to come up, I'll say this now.

Almost half the player-base is Mafia. This makes denying powerful mafia roles nearly impossible, and not cost effective. The best course for the role picking phase will be for us to focus on getting good town roles, and letting the various mafia parties fight among themselves for the good mafia roles. (Denying each other good combos in the process)

On that note, I want to know if you guys think it's a good idea to make a coordinated list of powerful town roles, or a bad idea. The obvious upside is that if we coordinate our picks then we have a higher chance of getting more roles, but at the cost of letting every mafia knowing the general location of certain power roles.

I for one am against this sort of ordering. It's called Pick YOUR power, Not Pick THEIR Power. I'll pick my own role, thank you.

I thought about this, but what do you think is the possibility of mafia picking traditionally pro-town roles like DTs and Cops in order to hunt for the other scum teams?

I feel we're going to have to be very careful of attributing pro-towness to role, and avoiding the "confirmed town" mentality for DTs, even if they deliver a red to us. It will be more like they aren't part of that mafia family, more than that they become likely town.

That said, they'd still be useful, because they aren't going to hide red checks on the enemy families, and they're forced to confirm town, or lie about their own members, neither of which helps them in the long run.

So, I think a list of good town roles will be ok, so long as people are careful not to fall into the trap of role = alignment.

We should also try to take roles that are good in mafia or town hands, if possible.


Going even further than that, the whole concept of "pro town" needs to be rethought for this game. Because scum need to kill the other scum factions, it will be rather easy for them to look "pro Town" through genuine scum-hunting. In normal games scum have to fake scum-hunt, here they do not. We cannot fall for this illusion.

Fortunalty for town, our objective is simpler than it is for scum. while scum need to blend in with the town, not draw fire, and kill all the opposing factions; all we have to do is just kill everything red. Aside from noting that scum also need to scum-hunt, I think we should not think too much about the presense of the multiple scum teams, and just treat it as one big one.


I don't like the idea of re-thinking the pro-town stance. We might need to make it harder to gain credit for pro-town play, but we shouldn't overhaul the system. Pro-town play is still pro-town, but mafia have more incentives than usual to do it.
Multiple candidates for the lynch is better than usual. Mafia attempts to rig the vote may land on another mafia member, and then we get a ton more information than in a standard vote-rigging scenario.
The moment you lose confidence in yourself, is the moment the world loses it's confidence in you.
bumatlarge
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States4567 Posts
October 12 2011 05:15 GMT
#235
On October 12 2011 14:05 syllogism wrote:
We should make a general tier list of roles as it will definitely help avoiding conflicts and overall help players who aren't familiar with the roles and their utility. Ver's PYPI postgame list is a good starting point

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=235829


That is not to say you have to pick according to any tier list, just encouraged, and we should mix in defensive roles among the top tier. Further, I encourage everyone to read the role list rather carefully, as even standard roles may function in surprising ways. For instance framer

Show nested quote +
You have the power to change how one's alignment and role appears to any detective type actions performed on them that night. You may use it on one person per night and may not use it on yourself. In addition, you may also choose to have your framed target visit anyone you choose. Any actions they perform will also be misdirected. Your target will also show up to watcher and tracker reports.

Meanwhile watcher is completely useless
Show nested quote +
You are the god damn Batman! At night you can choose to watch a player and receive information in the form of how many people visited that person. You must write a short and colorful story whenever you publish your results.


I will be on skype and later today on irc


FOOL! You will eat these words before this game is through! This may or may not be me claiming I will pick watcher depending on my numbers.
Together but separate, like oatmeal
Cyber_Cheese
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia3615 Posts
October 12 2011 05:19 GMT
#236
On October 12 2011 14:15 bumatlarge wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 12 2011 14:05 syllogism wrote:
We should make a general tier list of roles as it will definitely help avoiding conflicts and overall help players who aren't familiar with the roles and their utility. Ver's PYPI postgame list is a good starting point

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=235829


That is not to say you have to pick according to any tier list, just encouraged, and we should mix in defensive roles among the top tier. Further, I encourage everyone to read the role list rather carefully, as even standard roles may function in surprising ways. For instance framer

You have the power to change how one's alignment and role appears to any detective type actions performed on them that night. You may use it on one person per night and may not use it on yourself. In addition, you may also choose to have your framed target visit anyone you choose. Any actions they perform will also be misdirected. Your target will also show up to watcher and tracker reports.

Meanwhile watcher is completely useless
You are the god damn Batman! At night you can choose to watch a player and receive information in the form of how many people visited that person. You must write a short and colorful story whenever you publish your results.


I will be on skype and later today on irc


FOOL! You will eat these words before this game is through! This may or may not be me claiming I will pick watcher depending on my numbers.


The watcher definitely isn't as powerful as usual, but it's still useful to have some idea how many people visited a target, and then see how many claim to. I'm thinking that would work better with small numbers, eg. confirming to yourself one or two people at a time.
The moment you lose confidence in yourself, is the moment the world loses it's confidence in you.
Mig
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
United States4714 Posts
October 12 2011 05:22 GMT
#237
On October 12 2011 12:55 kitaman27 wrote:


kp roles may not be as important, but I do think there is value in the Ace role. Essentially everyone can be forced to claim that they are town in the thread and the role becomes the Dreamflower role, without the penalty of death if you are incorrect.


This idea is very good. It makes the Ace role godly, 2 shot vig that can only hit mafia. At the beginning of the day everyone should be required to claim town so that the person with Ace isn't required to role claim and force people to say it.
Moderator
hiro protagonist
Profile Joined January 2009
1294 Posts
October 12 2011 05:57 GMT
#238
With this kind of set up, The ideal play for a mafia team would be to play one faction against another, and as someone else pointed out, to be the last one standing. In my mind the dream pick of roles for a mafia team would be a mix of protective roles and KP roles. This way, they can survive a few hits, while being able to take down threats that are targeting them, all the while letting other power roles run a muck on everyone else.

lucky for us, those would be great roles for town as well, so I would say the protective and KP roles should be top priority.

I dont see DT roles being good at all for Mafia, but still OK for town. I could see the traditional Mafia roles being good for ether side.
"I guess if you climb enough off-widths, one of these days, your gonna get your knee stuck and shit your pants. Its just an odds thing really" -Jason Kruk
prplhz
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Denmark8045 Posts
October 12 2011 07:58 GMT
#239
On October 12 2011 14:22 Mig wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 12 2011 12:55 kitaman27 wrote:


kp roles may not be as important, but I do think there is value in the Ace role. Essentially everyone can be forced to claim that they are town in the thread and the role becomes the Dreamflower role, without the penalty of death if you are incorrect.


This idea is very good. It makes the Ace role godly, 2 shot vig that can only hit mafia. At the beginning of the day everyone should be required to claim town so that the person with Ace isn't required to role claim and force people to say it.


aren't you thinking of the bloodyc0bbler role? also mafia could be bloodyc0bbler wouldn't be too shabby, especially not if town comes up with plans like these.

i don't like that plan, i've never seen mass claim on day1 amount to anything good

if you really mean ace role then i have no idea what you're on about.
http://i.imgur.com/M7t7egx.png
Mig
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
United States4714 Posts
October 12 2011 08:05 GMT
#240
Ace's role can only shoot liars. So have everyone claim town then the Ace vig could only shoot the mafia since they were lying.
Moderator
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