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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
It should be fairly obvious that I'm an easy lynch for mafia. I'm not scum. ##unvote Archon_Toilet ##vote Jackal58 I suggest we look at Archon_Toilet, Dr. H, and Drazerk more carefully, particularly after the lynch. None of them have contributed anything; all the voters on me have feigned contribution by essentially voting me and saying nothing else. | ||
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heist
United States720 Posts
On September 18 2011 21:25 Jackal58 wrote: My vote is going on Bugs. Having played a couple of games with him now I know he is aggressive as town. He has not trolled any games to this point. His activity level is the same but his style is different. I don't believe he is mafia but I do believe he is 3rd party with a separate win condition from town. Right now I see two options for him. Lynch him or give him the ring and see what happens. If he and the ring leave the game that is probably not a bad thing. If we lynch him and the ring stays in the game that's probably not quite as optimal but still not a bad thing. Worse case scenario is they are both still here tomorrow. If you have the ring give it to Bugs. I can't believe that will end the game. The ring is inherently evil anyways. Other than Bugs the only person that has struck me as off is Heist. I'm more sure of Bugs not being town than I am of Heist being scum so Bugs is getting my vote. How are the only two options to either kill him or give in to his wish? Let's not give him anything just yet and let's not kill one of our most active players. I can't believe people are voting for someone they think is not mafia (not necessarily town). I'm more sure of WBG not being mafia than anything else at this point. Ask yourselves: if the majority feels he's a third party why is he our leading lynch? Has he shown anything that is harming the town? At worse, he's spamming requests for the ring. One reason that keeps cropping up is "I don't want to deal with his posting, I'm going to vote for him." Unacceptable. If he gets lynched, and he flips 3rd party (the most likely scenario) that's 'pats on the back' for mafia and 'eh whatever shrugs' from town. Yeah, it's not hugely detrimental but it's a waste of a day 1 lynch. With the majority divided between WBG and prplhz, I know who I'm voting for. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On September 19 2011 03:31 Pyo wrote: That makes no sense... in a situation where votes are scattered all over the place, why would scum put 3 onto the same person. Additionally, if scum really wanted you dead, they'd kill you at night – with split votes like we have it should be really easy for them push for the lynch of someone they know to be town. You're also misconstruing what Jackal said – he said we should get rid of you either by lynching you or if that fails by giving you the ring. Paraphrasing what people say to alter their meaning is incredibly scummy. My vote stays on you. Of course it makes sense, scum want a mislynch. Scum doesn't want me dead at night because they can get me lynched instead! I'm an easy lynch. Use your brain if you're actually town. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
So...reading comprehension fail much? | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
So...all of our lynch candidates you want to keep around til at least next day...lovely. You find trance suspicious for coming up with a ring plan (albeit a pretty bad one), and yet you'll ignore the fact that jackal wants to give WBG the ring and lynch WBG... | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
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Pyo
United States738 Posts
On September 19 2011 03:19 Cyber_Cheese wrote: I think WBG is currently someone we want to keep around till at least day 2. His latest post seems to be far and away better than all his other posts combined + Show Spoiler [I mean this one] + On September 18 2011 16:21 wherebugsgo wrote: I still don't have the ring! What a surprise. The following post is well-reasoned and should be listened to: As I said earlier and as Kitaman has nailed pretty well, we absolutely need to encourage the lurkers to participate. If they don't participate, or we let them get away with stupid shit (more on this later) then we are just hurting ourselves. We cannot let mafia blend in, and we need to identify when someone is trying to blend in, to identify them as scum. I will give you all two examples of this right now: Firstly, this guy is saying absolutely nothing with this entire post. He says there are so many people yelling at each other, that it's hard to read what's going on. He insinuates that there is a lot of confusion and noise, yet he adds to this by splitting the vote even further and throwing a shitty vote on a person who so far has not done anything scummy (as far as I can tell.) The worst part is that there are no specifics in this post. To clarify: wat so, he says there are "many plans and ideas, some good some bad." Way to go sherlock, either the plan is good or it's bad. You've really told us a lot there. What the fuck is that supposed to contribute? What's specifically good about these "good plans"? Who made them? What about the bad plans? The only thing he alludes to is that he thinks people like me and Trance are probably fine and just giving bad ideas. Well, the only idea I've pushed is giving me the ring. Trance is receiving votes, if Archon is scum then it totally makes sense for him to soft defend him here. And "all the guys" talking like us are fine. Whoa, so if someone makes a plan they're autoconfirmed town? Wtf? God this makes no sense whatsoever. Yeah hey guess what genius, you were lurking until now too, AFTER you were called out on your shitty posting record. I'm pretty sure you're just throwing a random vote out there and feigning analysis so you don't get a shitstorm for not posting and not contributing anything. This isn't even a real vote! Our last example is this: Clear lack of reading comprehension/hasn't read the thread. Granted, from what I saw in XLIV his town play is absolutely horrible so I'm not inclined to think he's scum. However, the type of logic he's using is precisely pro-mafia logic. I wouldn't put it past him to be scum, but for now we just need to push more posts out of our friend here Pyo. Specifically, the bolded part is his reason for voting me. In other words, he doesn't think I'm scum. He's voting me because he wants to get information. That's a terrible reason to want to lynch someone. You lynch someone primarily because you think they're scum. You get information NO MATTER WHO YOU LYNCH. This is an example of exactly what I want to see from him, as compared to all the 'ring lol' trolling and if he can keep it up he's realistically a valuable asset for town. Huh? what? you can seriously consider that to the sort of analysis that you expect from people... How in the world does Archon_toilet's nonsensical tunneling of GGQ "blend in"? He also misconstrues what I said in his "analysis" of me... Basically, his big huge long analysis was a load of crap. Factor in the timing of his post (after he started drawing serious attention and was accused of being spammy), it's clear that he felt pressured to give the appearance of "being helpful to town" when in fact he's just continuing to say nonsensical things. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On September 19 2011 03:40 Pyo wrote: Huh? what? you can seriously consider that to the sort of analysis that you expect from people... How in the world does Archon_toilet's nonsensical tunneling of GGQ "blend in"? He also misconstrues what I said in his "analysis" of me... Basically, his big huge long analysis was a load of crap. Factor in the timing of his post (after he started drawing serious attention and was accused of being spammy), it's clear that he felt pressured to give the appearance of "being helpful to town" when in fact he's just continuing to say nonsensical things. k, this guy is just dumb town, he's not scum. Can you point out what I'm saying that has been nonsensical? Can you deny that almost everyone who has voted me has completely ignored everything else going on in the game? Can you point out what parts of my contribution are feigned? Did you even read my "big huge long analysis" (hint, it wasn't actually that long) | ||
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Pyo
United States738 Posts
On September 18 2011 21:25 Jackal58 wrote: My vote is going on Bugs. Having played a couple of games with him now I know he is aggressive as town. He has not trolled any games to this point. His activity level is the same but his style is different. I don't believe he is mafia but I do believe he is 3rd party with a separate win condition from town. Right now I see two options for him. Lynch him or give him the ring and see what happens. If he and the ring leave the game that is probably not a bad thing. If we lynch him and the ring stays in the game that's probably not quite as optimal but still not a bad thing. Worse case scenario is they are both still here tomorrow. If you have the ring give it to Bugs. I can't believe that will end the game. The ring is inherently evil anyways. Other than Bugs the only person that has struck me as off is Heist. I'm more sure of Bugs not being town than I am of Heist being scum so Bugs is getting my vote. Jackal said "Lynch him OR give him the ring." It's pretty clear what Jackal meant and it wasn't what you claimed it to be. This post: On September 19 2011 03:36 jcarlsoniv wrote: You find trance suspicious for coming up with a ring plan (albeit a pretty bad one), and yet you'll ignore the fact that jackal wants to give WBG the ring and lynch WBG... is an example of why doing what WBG is doing is bad. People aren't reading the post to generate their own impressions, they read "analysis posts" and take the "analysis" at face value. That is how scum manipulate town into believing what they want you to... It's how chaoser got away with that bullshit DT claim in XLIV, for example. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
I was hella scummy in Ace's game and I fucking flipped medic. I have my own reasons for WHAT I do, but that doesn't make me scum. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On September 19 2011 03:48 Pyo wrote: Jackal said "Lynch him OR give him the ring." It's pretty clear what Jackal meant and it wasn't what you claimed it to be. This post: is an example of why doing what WBG is doing is bad. People aren't reading the post to generate their own impressions, they read "analysis posts" and take the "analysis" at face value. That is how scum manipulate town into believing what they want you to... It's how chaoser got away with that bullshit DT claim in XLIV, for example. First of all, no one knows who has the ring. So, if Jackal is suggesting someone give me the ring and I live, no one knows whether I've been given the ring or not. I could have it right now and you wouldn't know. Then, lynching me will disperse the ring among all my voters. Jackal is basically advocating both things at once. He's basically suggesting to give me the ring. If I don't die before lynch he's telling everyone to lynch me. That doesn't consider the possibility that I get the ring and live to lynch. Thus, it's a scum proposal. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
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Erandorr
2283 Posts
On September 19 2011 03:49 wherebugsgo wrote: Jackal is additionally suspicious because he says he knows how I play yet he seems to have completely forgotten my appearance in Ace's game. I was hella scummy in Ace's game and I fucking flipped medic. I have my own reasons for WHAT I do, but that doesn't make me scum. bugs, are you restricted by your role specificly that you cannot tell us wtf you are doing? The reason I want you out is that you clearly have an agenda other than catching scum. That just makes me uncomfortable. You now seem to start contributing, but still will not tell us why you behave the way you do. you dont ask for the ring in every post, so its clearly not that, and just trolled at the start and messed up the thread. I agree with most of your targets, actually, but could you just go back to xliv and compare your behaviour now to that of palmar and then remember how that turned out? | ||
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Cyber_Cheese
Australia3615 Posts
On September 19 2011 03:48 Pyo wrote: Jackal said "Lynch him OR give him the ring." It's pretty clear what Jackal meant and it wasn't what you claimed it to be. This post: is an example of why doing what WBG is doing is bad. People aren't reading the post to generate their own impressions, they read "analysis posts" and take the "analysis" at face value. That is how scum manipulate town into believing what they want you to... It's how chaoser got away with that bullshit DT claim in XLIV, for example. No I actually think he remembers it correctly, the and seems to be used to bring up both the courses of actions Jackal wanted to take, rather than connect them. Why would Jackal want to give WBG the most powerful item in the game AND want to kill him off? Wanting to do both of the extremes exclusively still seems like very bad play. However, I'm choosing to ignore this because of his meta for today for better or for worse. He's yet another person I want to see more of more than someone I don't think we should be keeping around, for now. | ||
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Pyo
United States738 Posts
On September 19 2011 03:42 wherebugsgo wrote: Can you point out what I'm saying that has been nonsensical? How about your fist 5-10 posts in the thread? Or this one where you use a ton of 1-liner responses that don't actually answer half of the things you respond to: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=264699¤tpage=17#331 Or this one about why you voted Drazerk: On September 18 2011 05:58 wherebugsgo wrote: And yes, I did say that my vote reason was bad, because that was the way I intended it to appear. I have reasons for voting him, I don't have to state everything and put it out on a silver platter for you. This is the same reason why I'm not going to tell anyone why I want the ring. If you guys decide to give me the ring, fine, if you don't, you're just hurting yourselves. Of course, I might actually have to put everything on a nice silver platter, since most townies are usually extraordinarily thick and incapable of reasoning. That doesn't make sense... we're hurting ourselves by not giving you the ring? Who are you talking to? Town or Mafia? The whole ring garbage has been completely nonsensical and at best irrelevant to town. On September 19 2011 03:42 wherebugsgo wrote: Can you deny that almost everyone who has voted me has completely ignored everything else going on in the game? That's how day 1 works. There's no way everyone is going to follow everything in intimate detail, you pick your couple of people you want to focus on and analyze what they say and who they say it to, you know the whole "FOS" thing. And to be clear at least I haven't ignored everything else going on in the thread. The people I find most suspicious aren't the guys running around like village idiots (archon_toilet/Drazerk), it's the guys calling them guys scum. On September 19 2011 03:42 wherebugsgo wrote: Can you point out what parts of my contribution are feigned? Did you even read my "big huge long analysis" (hint, it wasn't actually that long) Yeah I read it, granted with your multiple formatting fails, it was quite the pain in the ass...When I insinuated that your analysis was feigned, I was simply pointing out that your analysis didn't make sense and felt as if it was analysis for the sake of analysis. | ||
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TranceStorm
1616 Posts
Starting with WBG, his behavior has been quite erratic and he is attacking a large number of people. Nevertheless, I think he is making some reasonable arguments through the last few pages - pointing out suspicious behavior and errors in certain people's logic. Jackal has made a blatantly incorrect statement which has been caught out and he hasn't made a move to defend himself either. This is very troubling as well - but, it could simply be a mistake on his part where he failed to recognize the rules of the game. Nevertheless, at least what distinguishes him from prplhz is that he gives some justification for his vote. What I dislike most about prplhz's vote is that he never actually justifies why he is voting for Jackal. Look at his vote post, he says: also i'd like jack to do some scumhunting 'cause he's apparently also a veteran of sort. since this drh thing is going nowhere i'm gonna switch to jack He follows up later with a defense of himself in which he says: "i'm saying i think that jack is scum and that's why i'm voting him but i'm very open to the possibility that he isn't". Very indecisive. Jackal's play has been extremely dodgy as well, but I think prplhz is the most probably scum. #Vote prplhz | ||
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
 I have more to post in ~2 hours when my inet is back.OK, we have good players to lynch and bad ones: WBG is a terrible lynch. Massive FoS on any player stating that our best plan is to lynch someone who might be a serial killer or third party. Town only lynches serial killers when we desperately need to limit KP or when we are winning. NEVER ON DAY 1. Lynching a supposed third party gives us absolutely no information on scum. The main purpose of Day 1 is not even to lynch anti-town players, of course that's a bonus, but our real goal is getting a paper trail. Lynching a third party or a lurker does not accoplish that. FoS on Dr H, Errador and the other two or three players who posted this as their reason for voting. That being said, we have several good lynch targets: Pyo, prp, cyr and ON are all good targets. Jackal I'm unsure of right now, at first he stunk of an easy lynch, but his post about WBG is absurd. However I've never seen him contribute Day 1 before, so I don't know why he would start now. In two hours I'm going to decide which of the 4 I(and we) should be voting for. I'm leaning heavily towards ON or cyr right now, but am more than happy to vote prp if it comes down to him or WBG. Pyo seems so scummy he may not be scum. What's that? I'm going to start up a new lynch target with only hours to go? MAYBE. Ideally we would all give our reasons and vote at the extreme end of Day 1, as that is when we have the most info to go off of. Plenty of players are around, and without majority vote it isn't particularly difficult to swing votes onto a good case. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
i have attacked just about 1 guy and only said that 3 people were scummy, i'm sure you can find other people who have thrown more accusations around 'cause that's not really too bad. i think most of all this voting me is because cyriander suddenly came out of nowhere and said i was a good guy and apparently i'm his pal or something, but you should really be questioning him instead 'cause that's very weird day1 after a couple of posts from me that i agree could be interpreted as scummy ... but this is too late and something that can be done tomorrow. i think people should switch their votes to wbg me and jack. i also want to tell sandroba and palmar that i have the eru-iluvatar-given ability to instantly kill them at my will if they don't start posting. | ||
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On September 18 2011 17:37 syllogism wrote: Currently I'd like to lynch someone who has clearly been around and posted some while not saying anything worthwhile. I'm not particularly interested in going after newer players for "bad logic", "bad plans" or perceived "contradictions" as they say almost nothing about their alignment when I can't tell whether I should expect better from them. Moreover I'd expect the scum team to consist of ~4 veterans and ~2 newer players, again making it more worthwhile to lynch a veteran. The obvious downside is that veterans tend to post more and as the pool of veterans, it gets easier to spot the ones who shouldn't still be alive later on. Regardless, the following people fit the above criteria: Jackal, GGQ, possibly iGrok In addition, Vain's posts thus far have been so devoid of content that he looks like a decent alternative, despite not exactly being a veteran. Drazerk apologizing for going away for a few hours looks somewhat off too, given that his activity hasn't exactly been very high anyway. Unfortunately a bunch of veterans are getting away with posting nothing at all (Jeejee/Sandroba/Palmar), but at least the latter two have an excuse due to not being around and I'm willing to ignore jeejee on day 1 due to his recent game history. Lynching WBG is a waste of time unless we've a reason to believe he has KP or that he could be a scum fake claiming. The former is unlikely given the OP specifically implies that there are roles with the ability to steal items and having both abilities might be redundant if we believe his win con is simply to obtain the ring. Further, it's rather unlikely a SK would open claim day 1 as we would obviously get suspicious if night KP/flavor indicates that there is a SK. As for the possibility of him being scum, the claim again makes no sense as Gollum is a very likely character to be present in the game and having gollum as a scum safe claim seems unfair. I suppose it's possible for gollum to be scum aligned rather than a neutral party, but again it makes no sense to claim as it still makes him a likely vig target. ##vote Jackal Haha, this looks so scummy to me. Instead of looking for people who are acting scummy, you want to try to lynch people based on usefulness. This isn't too bad in itself, but then instead of giving concrete examples for each of the players you listed, you bring up 5 other players and give reasons why they're good lynch targets as well (But not as good as the first three). Then you spend the latter half of your post talking about WBG instead of the 8 lynch targets you brought up. So, instead of focusing on one player who is scummy, you bring up 3 targets, give no specific reasons for voting any of them, and then add 5 other targets to that pile as well, before what looks like just a random vote among them. Talk about spreading out focus. FOS Syllogism Also, while I'm at it, Syllo, what do you think of prplhz? On September 18 2011 21:29 prplhz wrote: but you can hit scum on day1, you sholdn't just give up because of math. if you want to wait until the math is good then we'll have to wait until they outnumber us. lynching wbg because he's 3rd party is pretty stupid, we should hunt for scum instead. i already shared reasons for my vote on drh and i'm quite sure other people wrote pieces on nav and jack which i'm not gonna parrot. and then you are all like "lol someone was inactive and then active totally scummy" not really would you rather they shut their mouth and you could just go through with a 3rd party bandwagon? this is not creating a scumhunting environment. i'd kinda like palmar to say something because he's from iceland and that is indubitably the northernmost location of all participants of this game. also i'd like jack to do some scumhunting 'cause he's apparently also a veteran of sort. since this drh thing is going nowhere i'm gonna switch to jack ##Vote: Jackal58 on jack's most recent post, there is a third option with wbg, leave him be and see if he starts acting like a normal human being, maybe he's just frustrated with being VT for the 10th time in a row, maybe his mom just told him he had to clean his room, there are plenty of reasons for posting silly shit but lynching a guy solely because he's 3rd party is totally scum agenda. also, i'm not a big fan of your idea of giving the ring to random people and i'm pretty sure any townie with a brain wouldn't do that. Do you think that Dr. H is scum still? What about Jackal? You say that "this drh thing is going nowhere", so does that mean that you don't think he's scum now? Or just that you don't think he's scum because the bandwagon isn't going anywhere? There's not a ton of time left in the day, and based on people's schedules, pressure votes aren't going to do much for the rest of the day. So, do you think Jackal is scummy, or do you just want to pressure him to post? You don't say, and like I said, pressure votes aren't going to do much from here on out. ##Vote: prplhz From the three major candidates, you seem the most likely to be mafia, to me. The Jackal bandwagon is mainly being formed because he hasn't done too much, and because of the weird plan about the ring. However, I don't think this is that condemning, simply because of the fact that it's impossible because the ring can only be transferred at night. I think if the mafia really wanted to propose a plan with a chance to get the ring into their hands, they would have thought it out a bit better, especially if they're using Jackal, who would be one of their more experienced players, to propose it. It doesn't jive. As well, if either you or syllo flip red, I think we need to get a vig shot on WBG. I think he's third party, more so than mafia, but that doesn't mean the possibility doesn't exist. I couldn't think of a mafia motivation, but that doesn't mean there isn't one, especially when we don't know what kinds of roles they have. I'm saying this, because as you can see, the Jackal bandwagon starts forming with syllo and prplhz, and in both their posts, they are quick to defend WBG from the lynch. There's a definite connection between them if they're mafia. | ||
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