EPTSurprisingly Normal Mini Mafia V - Page 9
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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bumatlarge
United States4567 Posts
On July 22 2011 13:46 Ace wrote: You can ask them. I have no "known meta" though aside from following a few policy lynches almost exclusively afaik. I'll take that as a yes. | ||
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Sevryn
698 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
My issue is not with Ace. It's Ace's play in THIS game that I have issues with. In fact; ##Unvote: Ace I'll build a case tomorrow. I'm running on LITERALLY zero sleep in 48 hours. If after rereading the thread (with more information ideally, fingers crossed) I don't see anyone else glaringly scummy, I'll proceed with my case against Ace. This is simply me keeping an open mind and attempting to NOT tunnel someone d1. I've played with a few of you before, and I'm sure you'll appreciate my effort. | ||
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vonKlaust
Sweden158 Posts
On July 22 2011 11:23 DragonReborn422 wrote: I think your posts look a little forced and look helpful to the casual eye but really isn't helpful. Objecting to a random lynch by saying we have a higher chance of finding a mafia sounds really nice in theory....but honestly...i doubt the town has a higher than 25% of finding a mafia on day 1. Here he sais that he doubts it's better to scumhunt than to RL. First of all, I think that it is a bit suspicious even to hold this view, but in later posts he keep contradicting himself. On July 22 2011 11:43 DragonReborn422 wrote: You're missing the point of my argument Viscera. I don't care if we do a random lynch or not. I found it strange that you protest it making you look scummy. That is all. Perhaps our chances of hitting the mafia is more than 25% perhaps not. Again, I don't care a lick about the lynch. I'm pointing out that you are trying to helpful to the inexperienced whereas you're actually not. This is definitly scummy. He sais that he does not care about how we lynch. That it does not matter to him. And to be honest, Visceras posts were pretty helpful to me, since he actually answered my questions. And if he does think that it's probably better to RL(which his earlier post imply), why doesn't he argue for that? What he sais is that he has no opinion, but it's scummy that Viscera has one. Although, he doesn't criticize Ace for having one. Instead he sais: On July 22 2011 10:59 DragonReborn422 wrote: Implying that he likes the idea of a RL, since this is what Ace is actually writing.I like Ace's posts. On July 22 2011 11:54 DragonReborn422 wrote: I haven't bashed anyone. What are you talking about? His reasoning is that the town can do better than a random lynch on day 1 and we should not random lynch. I don't care if we do a random lynch or not. Maybe THIS town CAN do better than a random lynch on day1. It could also DO worse than a random lynch on day1. I HAVE NO WAY OF KNOWING WHICH. I am pointing out that he appears helpful by saying that oh yea we can analayze and talk and discuss and we have a better chance of finding a mafia on day1. I think this looks pretty cool to the casual observer as yea...he sounds intelligent and useful...whereas in reality....we really don't know how good this town is. If we have a terrible town maybe we should just keeping randoming!! Here again. He sais he does not care if town RLs or not and that we can never do a good choice, but still he keeps doing very agressive posts about the matter. This doesn't make any sense to me. Why wouldn't he care, is he not interested in winning? On July 22 2011 12:08 DragonReborn422 wrote: Trotske, I'm glad you found a reason...but again I have never in one way or another promoted a random lynch. I just find this discussion about it somewhat interesting. Again, very careful to show that he has no opinion what so ever, even though he has actually made som post leaning towards RL: + Show Spoiler + Objecting to a random lynch by saying we have a higher chance of finding a mafia sounds really nice in theory....but honestly...i doubt the town has a higher than 25% of finding a mafia on day I am pointing out that he appears helpful by saying that oh yea we can analayze and talk and discuss and we have a better chance of finding a mafia on day1. I think this looks pretty cool to the casual observer as yea...he sounds intelligent and useful...whereas in reality....we really don't know how good this town is. If we have a terrible town maybe we should just keeping randoming!! I like Ace's posts. On July 22 2011 12:24 DragonReborn422 wrote: I haven't agreed or disagreed with anyone. Why do people keep making stuff up about what I've said. Once again, he keeps saying he doesn't have an opinion, even though he fiercefully argues throughout the thread. Also he is very fast on throwing accusations. Viscera, me and aprudds have allready been FoSed by him. If he is not scum, he is just playing really, really oddly. ##Vote DragonReborn422 (This post got pretty unstructured. I apologize for this) | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
Like, I've played 8 mafia games, 5 of them we've lynched scum or 3rd party on day 1. That's far higher than 25%. Is this just some clever ploy to start a discussion or try to figure out who is going to be the scummy white knight who trashes your plan? btw, Killing ace day1 is stupid, just lynch him day 2 because the mafia will shoot him if he's not part of their team. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
On July 22 2011 09:58 redFF wrote: Most people haven't even posted at all yet... As for what to do now for the newbies, just post and wait for someone to slip up/look scummy. Also please do not lie, there have been a bunch of games recently where bad townies have lied and screwed over town, so don't lie! LAL is a very extreme policy but it makes sense. I'm not suggesting LAL, but if someone lies then I will personally look at them carefully and trust them a good deal less. We have a lot of new players in this game so i encourage more experienced players to remember that there is a difference between DUMBand SCUM. Too often day 1 lynches end up with some townie getting lynched for trivial reasons when people dont realise the townie is just bad! Holy shit redFF, thanks for giving advice on how to play. Here is a tip: LAL doesn't work unless you actually maintain the illusion that you'll follow through with it. But of course, you want to have an out if at some point someone actually fucks up, so you leave a hole in your policies for bad townies, something you're most certainly going to try and convince us of when one of your scumbuddies gets under pressure On July 22 2011 11:16 redFF wrote: I've never actually seen or heard of random lynching before, well most day 1 lynches are random but outright saying they are and randomly deciding who is lynched is something i've never seen before, can you link me to a game where a random lynch has been used? It seems pretty dumb to me, because you could hit an active pro-town player just as likely as you could hit a lurking mafia. Why don't you just come flat out and say the plan is terrible? We all know it's not good, the problem is identifying which is more scummy, the idiots supporting the plan or the white knights fighting against it. But I think you're just posting random shit to make yourself look good. #vote redFF | ||
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vonKlaust
Sweden158 Posts
So long. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
You and VE have an amazing knack for making stuff up. List the people who comprise "half the town" that I've convinced. @Jacinto: He never said it was better not to scumhunt than to RL. Other than that I think you've got a decent case saying DR22 isn't really showing a strong stance. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
But it's still interesting. Ace proposes terrible plan, Jacinto and VE don't like it, DragonReborn actually likes it. Like.. would scum actually take the chance? The lynch isn't really 25% chance because the mafia can co-ordinate their votes, if they so please, so I think what DragonReborn did was stupid, but probably not scummy. | ||
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
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Pyo
United States738 Posts
I brought this up in Arkham Asylum and got lambasted for it, but I'm highly suspicious of early policy posts like: + Show Spoiler + On July 22 2011 08:36 VisceraEyes wrote: Hi town! I'm VisceraEyes! Some of you I might know me from the several games I've lost for my team in the past. This game I'm going to turn that around. Some requests: If you're fluent in BB formatting, PLEASE use spoilers and quotes. Text walls are easier to swallow when they're broken up. If you're not, please keep your thoughts concise and to the point. I'd like to try and keep the discussion focused this game. Obviously with such varied personalities, this is likely to be difficult. If we all do our part to keep the thread nice, we may even get to keep the All button! ^^ Probably my most sincere hope is that we avoid some of the mud-slinging and nonsense that tends to go with these games. Obviously some of us are going to get frustrated, but if we all try and primarily attack arguments, not people, I think the game will go a lot smoother. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/U84EX.jpg) This sort of post feels like you're trying really hard to establish town cred (As GGQ put it in mafia XL's post game analysis, this feels like he's trying to "lead without really leading"). Also voting for Ace and then unvoting - this is precisely the wishy-washyness for which I was being called scum in Arkham Asylum. As for the other votes already in this thread, man palmar do you really play like this every game? On July 22 2011 18:34 Palmar wrote: btw, Killing ace day1 is stupid, just lynch him day 2 because the mafia will shoot him if he's not part of their team. That is terrible WIFOM logic. Now all mafia have to do is just not kill him if he is town. Whether scum kill someone or not should never be used as rationale for determining someone's alignment. Along the same lines, your vote for redFF seem completely devoid of logic - I'm just gonna chalk it up to your hyper aggressive play style that has been so frustrating to deal with in Arkham asylum. I said this in that game and I'll say it here as well, random tunneling where you can interpret any response they could possibly take as being scummy is not good scum-hunting (in fact it is no different than the random lynching you're so against). Then, we have jacinto's analysis of DragonReborn. This actually looks like a pretty reasonable analysis. I'm going to wait for DR to respond to jacinto before I get caught up in any bandwagon against him. My 3rd suspect (aside from VE and DR) so far is appruds. I know he's a really strong scum player from mafia XL, masterful and not drawing attention to himself while still able to derail discussion and deflect attention when the heat was. His posting so far feels like he's just providing some thread presence while not really contributing any analysis or pressure on anyone. I realize that this is kind of bringing a lot of meta-game into the analysis which can be bad, but we should definitely be keeping an eye on him. So far the best case seems to be against DR, but as I said above, I'm going to wait until he responds before actually voting. | ||
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DragonReborn422
United States91 Posts
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DragonReborn422
United States91 Posts
On July 22 2011 21:26 Palmar wrote: your mother. But it's still interesting. Ace proposes terrible plan, Jacinto and VE don't like it, DragonReborn actually likes it. Like.. would scum actually take the chance? The lynch isn't really 25% chance because the mafia can co-ordinate their votes, if they so please, so I think what DragonReborn did was stupid, but probably not scummy. what exactly did i do that is stupid oh god of mafia? | ||
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DragonReborn422
United States91 Posts
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GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
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DragonReborn422
United States91 Posts
On July 22 2011 14:44 Sevryn wrote: Just by suggesting a RL we have gotten alot of talk going I don't think anybody looks to scummy atm. However I can't say a RL is the type of risk I would want to take. it favors mafia so there is a 75% chance that town gets lynched and then we lose another to mafia overnight. i feel like we can make it alot less than 75% to lynch town with just good post analysis. I really want to know where people come up with this myth that a random lynch favors the mafia. In a BALANCED game, it should be exactly break-even for both sides to random lynch and/or random night kill. It really depends on the skill of the players to push the favor in one side or other. Given that it's Day1 and a bunch of players are new, an argument can be made that a random lynch may even be MORE successful at finding a scum on Day1. People have given me slack for not having an opinion but leaning one way or another about this case. It's because ITS DAY1. It really doesn't matter to me who gets lynched on Day1 to me. If it gets randomized, that's fine for me too. I've also made my reads on some of the posts that looked scummy to me. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
On July 22 2011 23:15 DragonReborn422 wrote: what exactly did i do that is stupid oh god of mafia? You agreed with ace's plan. From town perspective it doesn't make any sense, as judging by the sample of games I've played town has more like 50%+ chance of hitting mafia on day one, so if you're town, you should by logic never agree to this plan. But I don't think you'd out yourself as mafia like that... early, so I'm inclined to believe it's bad judgement. redFF however responded in the scummiest way possible to Ace's plan, he was indecisive, tried to appear interested in the plan by asking further questions, when just thinking about the problem would lead you to understand why it's bad. That's why I'm voting for redFF, I think it's pretty obvious that he was avoiding taking a firm stance on it. Don't forget a random lynch is really the worst scenario for town (aside from the fact mafia can stack), and the entire point of the mafia game, is to increase that chance by analysis and logic. So yeah, read red's posts, realize that they don't make sense, given his experience as a player. | ||
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DragonReborn422
United States91 Posts
Here he sais that he doubts it's better to scumhunt than to RL. First of all, I think that it is a bit suspicious even to hold this view, but in later posts he keep contradicting himself. I've never said it's beter to scumhunt than to RL. Don't know where you get this from. [/quote] This is definitly scummy. He sais that he does not care about how we lynch. That it does not matter to him. And to be honest, Visceras posts were pretty helpful to me, since he actually answered my questions. And if he does think that it's probably better to RL(which his earlier post imply), why doesn't he argue for that? What he sais is that he has no opinion, but it's scummy that Viscera has one. Although, he doesn't criticize Ace for having one. Instead he sais [/quote] Ok you kind of got me here. I don't really care who we lynch (although I will fervently defend myself as I'm 100% sure of my town townie role). I don't think Viscera is scummy for having an opinion. Where do you come up with this? I think Viscera's post is a somewhat forced comeback to Ace which although sounds nice isn't really. I think his post is FORCED and looks overly helpful (whilst not being that helpful)!!!!! Implying that he likes the idea of a RL, since this is what Ace is actually writing. Don't know where you get this idea from. First of all Ace made several posts. I just enjoyed his posts in general. If I say..Obama made a great speech. That doesn't mean I agree with everything in it. I just liked his posts in general. Here again. He sais he does not care if town RLs or not and that we can never do a good choice, but still he keeps doing very agressive posts about the matter. This doesn't make any sense to me. Why wouldn't he care, is he not interested in winning? How am I being aggressive? Almost all my posts are responses to people trying to defend myself from made up accusations. I never said the town can never do a good choice. I said I doubt we can achieve higher than 25% and it depends on the town/mafia players. Quit putting your bias into my posts please. Again, very careful to show that he has no opinion what so ever, even though he has actually made som post leaning towards RL Once again, he keeps saying he doesn't have an opinion, even though he fiercefully argues throughout the thread. Also he is very fast on throwing accusations. Viscera, me and aprudds have allready been FoSed by him. If he is not scum, he is just playing really, really oddly. So my mafia tactic is to push the town towards a random lynch...this is what you're implying? Yet I have made accusations on Viscera, you and aprudds? Makes sense yo. So I can't throw accusations? Lol. I had reasons (good or bad) for thinking viscera's posts were scummy. I just didn't like aprudds first post. I hate saying things like "If he is not scum, he is just playing really, really oddly." aka if he isnt scum he sucks. i probably have more games played than everyone here combined and probably at a higher level of play. Let's try to stay away from the mud-slinging ok? | ||
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DragonReborn422
United States91 Posts
I've agreed to Ace's plan. Where? Please show me a post that DIRECTLY states we should random lynch. I've given some arguments on why a random lynch is OK because some of you guys didn't understand it. Also your sample size of 8 games makes you the mafia theorycrafter to tell me who has played over 100 what i do is stupid? for real? | ||
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