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On June 13 2011 11:32 TranceStorm wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2011 09:51 Vain wrote:On June 13 2011 09:33 TranceStorm wrote:On June 13 2011 09:22 Vain wrote:On June 13 2011 09:10 TranceStorm wrote:On June 13 2011 09:02 Vain wrote:On June 13 2011 08:53 TranceStorm wrote:On June 13 2011 08:41 Vain wrote:Ok, i went trough grush57 posts again. Most of them are just reactions or agreements of people so i am not going to post those. On June 09 2011 06:55 grush57 wrote:On June 09 2011 06:40 supersoft wrote:I going to vote for iGrok now. I believe he's scum. For several reasons. First reason: I thought about who might be the person who leads the mafia - whether he's also GF or not doesn't matter for me right now. To my mind came 3 persons who dominated the scene at the first day: Kurumi, Jackal and iGrok. Now to the differences between these three players: Kurumi is very aggressive and gets into everyones face every time he posts something. He was against the freeloaderlynch and sceptical about the rookielynch. But he proposed several alternativelynches. Jackal was also against the freeloaderlynch, and he proposed to lynch rookie instead. No good move if you are GF/mafia if you know that freeloader also is townie... Why should you draw votes from a townie to another townie... That's just stupid... iGrok just posted some informations etc. and he asked for a DT-check on Kurumi. ___________________________ iGrok was the most passive player out of the three. Of course he was! as scum he knew exactly that rookie and freeloader were innocent, so he could easily sit back and watch the town lynch each other. He just hadn't do anything. In fact it would have been stupid to really push for a Kurumilynch. He just tried to make him look suspicious, to draw attention from himself: Of course a DT check on Kurumi would be negative. But no problem, iGrok still could say that Kurumi is the GF. Second reasonThis shit convinced me + Show Spoiler +On June 08 2011 13:03 GGQ wrote:GGQ's big post of epicness in case he dies tonight (which I've just realised I dont have enough time to make as long as I want  Trust me that it's smart and good: No one undertook the exercise I set of looking at who defended and attacked lafali and why. I'm very disappointed, guys. You all get 0/2 on your homework for today. The veteran players are all going to be dead before this game is nearly over, and you guys need to practice working on how to actually find scum, not just accuse people based on neutral tells. Keep your heads up, don't get discouraged. Look at contradictions in talk and behavior. Look at people who are skating by with posts that just repeat previous content. These are the scummy players. The point was to lead you to Kurumi and iGrok above everyone else. Kurumi attacks lafali for his bandwagon vote bringing nothing new to the table on freeloader. There was absolutely no reason for him to throw scum on lafali so early in the game if he's mafia. Plus his aggressiveness and balls-out attitude are more inline with a green than anything else. Kurumi is most likely town. iGrok defends lafali as probably newb town. He's the only one who defends lafali straight out, but Vain, aprudds, monsterDrakar, and Senj also soft-defend him. I'm not saying they are all scum, but it's a great place to look for scum (dts take note! vigis save your shots). At this point in time I think iGrok is almost certainly the godfather of the mafia team (it could be jackal as well but his behavior doesn't fit the role as well, and seems more in line with the town play I've seen from him). iGrok defends lafali after Kurumi calls him out and votes for him, while before this accusation he posted that everyone who had voted so far ( which included lafali) should be under suspicion. Contradiction. iGrok has also been working to get into a town-leadership and thread-presence position all game, something the godfather always tries to do. iGrok also got way too defensive after being attacked and accused. Other suspicious people to me: Vain, partly for defending lafali, partly for advocating the lynch on freeloader for 'information' blehhhhh I already posted about that, and partly because iGrok listed him as a skilled vet with him, me and jackal when I think he's quite new and I havent seen anything particularly good from him. iGrok probably wanted another mafia on that list, though. Of course jimbooo whom I voted Day 1, for reasons already stated by multiple players. Others are monsterDrakar and Senj. xkcd has decreased on my scum meter lately but isn't totally clear. So, he is the most passive, which could also mean he is a blue and then later in another post, you try to get other people to bandwagon with You. Not saying whether iGrok is mafia or town/blue, but u do have good analysis of those players. Inb4 grush57 is trying to defend iGrok, he is scum! Grush57 is calling igrok scum. This was irr before he was in alot of danger so this pleads for him Read this again. Grush isn't calling igrok scum, he's defending him given that he's responding to an attack on iGrok and saying that "which could also mean he is a blue". Then he says "Not saying whether iGrok is mafia or town/blue", and concludes by articulating that isn't actually defending iGrok "Inb4 grush57 is trying to defend iGrok, he is scum!", when he actually is. In the mean time, would you mind responding to the numerous accusations against yourself? You seem to be selectively responding to accusations against grush instead of yourself. Also, given that the day vote is ending soon, pick out a candidate and give good reasons for voting for them, I haven't seen you strongly support a lynch all game. I've only seen you defend iGrok and grush, so please, I would love for you to make a vote and back it up now. Several pages later he changed his mind and agreed he wasn't blue either. I'll vote when ill see fit and don't make it seem there have been strong cases against any player yet. We lynched 1.5 times a blue so you go ahead and make a very strong case on a scum. But if it turns out to be a blue you stop playing this game forever ok? Btw, i also thought voting for jackal while igrock was alsmost about to be lynched was a huge scumtell. but i just really hoped you didn't notice Please link me to where grush ever accused iGrok of being mafia (or in fact agreed that iGrok was not blue). In fact a quick search of grush's posts with reference to iGrok (hooray for search function!) reveals that he always defending iGrok and suspicious of the people who bandwagon against iGrok. In the meantime, I notice how you haven't responded to the accusations against yourself yet again, please do so. On June 09 2011 07:20 grush57 wrote:
Yea, I don't really think he would be blue either. there, now do your own research without a stupid search function. now accusing of what, not voting on scum? guilty as charged but you have to come with more than that. Ok, I stand corrected on the quote issue. (That still doesn't clear grush by any means - he's only saying that iGrok probably isn't blue). But when I'm talking about accusations I mean responding to the following posts: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=227500¤tpage=52#1022Well as i stated before it was pretty much a 50/50 scum/blue flip i just don't really like talking about blues and i didn't feel like investigating the rest again. Day one lynch is most of the time wrong anyways. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=227500¤tpage=58#1157point one: GGQ,Kurumi and a few others are also on that list. Ty for bringing that up. It could very well be those are all townies. Igrok was positioning himself as head townie remember? Point two: same as first link Point three: Well igrok said something about at least one vet being in the mafia. I found that a very good theory. One of the two had to be mafia but i picked the wrong one. I dind't think igrok would put so much effort in appearing town while he was godfather. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=227500¤tpage=61#1212Jeah, really i don't know what GGQ was smoking but i didn't even talk about lafali once before i died http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=227500¤tpage=65#1286Especially considering that the last of the set of 4 posts is just 2 posts above one of yours and is on the same page where we have had such a nice conversation, it looks to me like you are dodging the accusations against yourself. So, i hope that's enough for now. I quoted my own posts a couple of times because you happened to 'skip by them' multiple times so I called you out asking you to respond multiple times. Only when I have finally pinned you down here have you finally responded to any attacks against yourself. So lets look at your responses: Post #1: Ok, so you voted to lynch rookie on the basis that it was a 50/50 and you didn't want to investigate anyone else further. That sounds fishy by itself, but I won't press the issue here. Post #2: The first thing you miss in that post is that I compare your current behavior in the thread to that in your previous game. (the first two paragraphs) There was a complete different between the way you posted in the beginning of this game and Slightly Normal Mini Mafia I. Only now, have you become more active in your postings. Is this because I called you out? Now onto the subpoints: 1. Yes GGQ and Kurumi and the others were on the list. But that was because they had contributed significantly or were seen as veterans - you had not done much analysis. In fact iGrok lumped you into his 'experienced players category' when you had been modkilled in his Sleeper Cell Mafia Game.
2. Same as Post #1.
3. My argument was that you were extremely hesistant and unwilling to associate yourself with either side. You seemed extremely unsure and unwilling to accept responsibility for your vote which piqued my interest as you seemed to wish to 'hide'.
Post #3: The key issue in this post was not GGQ's accusations. Its Pyo's collection of your posting history. A key thing to note is that you had not expressed a strong opinion on any issue. You had not advocated for a lynch or advocated for a plan or what not. In fact the only consistent thing in your posting history was your constant defense of iGrok and your suggestion that he not be lynched. Post #4: This is where I accuse you of dodging accusations. I called you out repeatedly, and judging by the fact that you say you read back on grush's posts, I expect that you must have read those posts. Why did you delay responding until I forced you to respond? The reason is that you have been trying to hide and dodge those suspicions. Don't say that I am dodging accusations, when I am repeatedly calling you out.
Hmm. I hadn't seen that iGrok added Vain to his "experienced player list" despite not really being experienced. Considering I've been doubting the grush57 vote a little its enough for me to switch.
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omfg LOL. Can someone who's been here for longer than me say what the record for modkills is? Because this has to break that record by far.
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^thats not a clock. Thats only a picture of a clock.
Sad to see you go, Pyo.
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Well, this game seems to have dried up fast.
Now that I've thought about it, I think its most likely that the remaining mafia all voted for amazingxkcd on day 2, considering that a single vote could've saved or killed him. So of that list left alive is:
Me
Munk-E
Alderan
blackone
aprudds
I think so long as we stick to lynching people off that list we should be OK.
As for the people:
I know that I'm innocent (and I think it should be clear that I'm innocent given how much the now proven mafia tried to draw attention to me).
Munk-E has been mostly lurking but a lot of people have been doing that this game so it doesn't tell us anything. He accused and voted lafali day one and posted a decent reason why he voted for amazingxkcd which suggests to me that he's more likely innocent.
blackone and aprudds, I can't really get a read on. blackone seems a bit more likely to be scum but that isn't really meaningful.
Alderan seems to me to be most likely scum. Mostly from looking back at day 1:
On June 07 2011 05:56 Alderan wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2011 05:47 TranceStorm wrote:On June 07 2011 05:38 Jackal58 wrote:You guys want to vote for scum? Vote this guy - rookie44: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=9611408Has played before so he has an idea how it works. Very subtle in his fishing for blues. Only scum fish for blues. Wants to know what methods and tactics are used to catch scum. Wants us to share them with everybody. Claims it will help derail scum tactics. When it will obviously do the opposite. Has all but disappeared since this post. I'm sure he'll show up momentarily to tell me how full of shit I am. That's where my vote is going. I would recommend you all do the same. Would you mind doing a post-by-post analysis of rookie44's posts? (There are only 3) Right now I can't really see how subtly he is fishing for blues. After all, we don't know how experienced he really is, so I would like a little more clarification as to your accusation. Wait so you're saying instead of voting for new players being dumb you suggest us to vote for a player who has never played before on the forums (admittedly so) for suggesting that veteran players toss out potential strategies? Sure it's a LITTLE scummy, but until I see some elaboration on your "very subtle in fishing for blues" I'm going to have to disagree with you.
On June 07 2011 06:16 Alderan wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2011 06:03 Jackal58 wrote:On June 07 2011 05:56 Alderan wrote:On June 07 2011 05:47 TranceStorm wrote:On June 07 2011 05:38 Jackal58 wrote:You guys want to vote for scum? Vote this guy - rookie44: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=9611408Has played before so he has an idea how it works. Very subtle in his fishing for blues. Only scum fish for blues. Wants to know what methods and tactics are used to catch scum. Wants us to share them with everybody. Claims it will help derail scum tactics. When it will obviously do the opposite. Has all but disappeared since this post. I'm sure he'll show up momentarily to tell me how full of shit I am. That's where my vote is going. I would recommend you all do the same. Would you mind doing a post-by-post analysis of rookie44's posts? (There are only 3) Right now I can't really see how subtly he is fishing for blues. After all, we don't know how experienced he really is, so I would like a little more clarification as to your accusation. Wait so you're saying instead of voting for new players being dumb you suggest us to vote for a player who has never played before on the forums (admittedly so) for suggesting that veteran players toss out potential strategies? Sure it's a LITTLE scummy, but until I see some elaboration on your "very subtle in fishing for blues" I'm going to have to disagree with you. You his scum buddy? Just pointing out that I think your analysis is just as weak or weaker than all the others. Let's see how he responds.
On June 07 2011 09:55 Alderan wrote:
I will be voting for Rookie based on his answers to being called out. While I don't think he is the highest percentage (I'd give him about 10%) chance of hitting a scum, I think that he will do nothing but waste a DT or a future and more costly lynch if he remains in the game.
Honestly there are a couple people I'd like to vote for, but the decision is made infinitely more difficult based on the fact that all the ones in question are likely only in question for being new to the game and very lazy. If we have to hit a town let's make it a lazy scummy looking one.
##Vote Rookie44
His turnaround from voting amazingxkcd to voting rookie44 seems really fast, and poorly explained. He also never addressed the notion that rookie44 might've been a newb blue, despite posting a few times after that argument came up. The second quote is a little defensive for an attack that doesn't deserve it. Also he was the only guy to switch from xkcd to rookie44 when there was some effort to switch the other way.
As well, he was arguing day two that if we still had a medic they should definitely not heal jackal, cause the mafia wouldn't possibly kill jackal - and that night, the mafia hit jackal.
There are some other reasons to be suspicious that others have posted, but basically, I'm voting Alderan.
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Since we DO have a third medic, if we have another DT they should definitely come forward and tell us what they've seen, as we can easily keep him alive. No GF should make their checks a lot better, though there is still a miller.
@supersoft: any particular reason you don't have blackone on your list too?
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lol @ Kairo the vigilante shooting Jackal.
gg
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On June 16 2011 19:37 iGrok wrote:
Treadmill, I feel bad for you - you made a bad read and it cost you your life.
Except I actually survived 
It only cost OTHER people their lives.
Urgh. I really screwed up this game, hopefully I can learn from my mistakes.
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On June 18 2011 04:23 gtrsrs wrote:
i don't think i was greenlighting kurumi too hard til amazingkxcd flipped and it was revealed that his "kurumi is 100% town" claim was backed by something. until then i was mostly saying "just try to ignore his kurumi-isms and play around him" imo.
also i feel like i came off as very pro-town in that game. i was scumhunting, i wasn't wishy-washy, i stuck to my guns, i offered to die in order to get my target lynched (which would be a really bad move for mafia or blue, obviously). i think it's weird you had a bad feeling about me
Eh, you WERE scum hunting pretty well but you weren't explaining yourself at all. Most notably, you jumped on iGrok day one - and your suspicions were right. But since you didn't really explain yourself, and the case wasn't obvious to us noobies, it looked like you were just tunnelling him, and you looked a bit scummy to a bunch of us.
What really bothers me is that xkcd pretended to have DT-checked Kurumi when he hadn't. Had xkcd been wrong and Kurumi actually been scum we would've been completely screwed.
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EPT
