+ Show Spoiler +On May 04 2011 09:22 tnkted wrote:
/in im not in the other game On May 04 2011 11:47 tnkted wrote:Show nested quote +Bus Driver
Twice per game, you get to switch all actions on two players. For example, if the Bus Driver switches A and B, where A and B are players, and A is killed and B is role checked, A will be role checked and B will be killed instead. You may not bus drive yourself. If you are LSB, your action may randomly fail because physics just aren't that reliable. If you are RebirthofLegend, you can bus drive yourself. What the fuck is this shit? What extra powers do I get? I'm the one that made this entire situation happen. On May 11 2011 06:25 tnkted wrote:If announced in the thread that I was going to choose [1][1], would everyone else not choose that since it would mean that we would both get pulled down? This is, of course, hypothetical.  On May 12 2011 00:09 tnkted wrote:Couple questions: Show nested quote +Village Idiot
Congratulations, you are Bill Murray! In honor of this venerable veteran of our community, your goal is to do what bill does best, get lynched. If you get lynched, you win. Otherwise, you lose. You are a third party but show up as vanilla town to rolechecks. The game will not end if you get lynched, but you will get your own picture and postgame award. 1. If everyone in this game is getting a role, shouldn't bm NOT appear as vanilla townie? That would be more suspicious than apppearing as mafia, unless the thief has already outed himself. 2. Can the inventor give an invention to the puppeteer's smurf? Would the puppeteer use that invention, or would the smurf? 3. How does role reverser work? Do kills, for example, target the killer rather then the intended victem? 4. How accurate does the assassin's rolename have to be when he/she is guessing? If I were to type Ace Cop, would dirty cop work? 5. America's Nuke power needs to be posted in the thread, and just kills somebody, correct? or does it also kill everyone who voted for that person? 6. NRA members only kill the FIRST person to visit them and not later visiters, yes? What if the person that visits them is mafia trying to kill them? Would the mafia die, or would both players die? What happens if mafia, the night they kill, happen to be protected by a medic? Would the mafia still die, and if not, would the NRA member lose his kill? 7. How does Pardoner work in this game? Is it GM style, where it ends the lynch for the day, or is it a different style? 8. If the dirty cop is blocked by the bone breaker, what happens? Can the dirty cop still sell his services, or does nothing happen? 9. What happens if somebody blocks the puppeteer? Does the puppeteer immediately lose his ability to control his smurf? 10. What happens if the journalist takes control of the puppeteer's smurf? Does that smurf have to post something? Can the puppeteer then reveal that the smurf was taken control of by the journalist, since technically the smurf would be the only person in that relationship who couldn't reveal? On May 12 2011 11:09 tnkted wrote: On May 14 2011 11:56 tnkted wrote:I really really want the bus driver role. I can bug him until I get what I want! Do you guys realize how quick it is to fill up an inbox with 100+ messages when you use an automator? I will bus myself again. >  + Show Spoiler +jkjk, happy birthday! I do want bus driver though. On May 14 2011 13:16 tnkted wrote:We wont need to: + Show Spoiler +*note: There is a new rule in place. In the event that your first AND second numbers clash with another player you both go straight to the bottom of the order. So if 3 players picked [4][1], [4][1] and [4][7] the 2 players with [4][1] are bumped below the player that picked [4][7] along with the original bump. All in All the most unique number combination gets priority.
Simple right? Of course this is all done to support epic mind traps between Scum and Town for picking #s. Remember once this phase is done you will know the draft order publicly. You just wont know who picked what and what roles got picked ^_^.
We'll know the draft order publically, ie, everyone will know who got first pick. Inventor will almost certainly be the first role taken. A question: if you got turned into vanilla, is it a good idea to claim? it would mean that that role is confirmed in the game, which would make a serious difference to town play if you claimed to try to get traitor or politician or something. On May 15 2011 01:06 tnkted wrote:
I don't think this assigning roles plan is a good idea at all. Why? Because everyone at the top of the list is going to be instantly targeted by mafia. Mafia wants to kill the inventor ASAP, they want to kill the politician, they want to kill the dirty cop. Virtually every single role that town would like to grab, whoever is the first townie in line is going to get killed.
This of course means that anyone who survives the first few nights but is in the top 5 is going to be on my shitlist, unless they've survived a hit already or something. Simple reason is this: Scum is going to get in top 5, and scum is going to shoot into top 5, because one of those 5 is going to have inventor, which is by far the most OP role in this game. Especially if you're creative. immune to actions, anyone? cakebomb? free caffemetamine (extra turn at night)? Autoframe? doublekill? the list goes on. Inventor is deadly in the hands of scum and even deadlier in the hands of town.
There has been some talk about a traitor; I hadn't realized this, but bums right. Somebody is certain to be an asshole. If I had to guess, I'd say its probably going to be somebody lower down on the list, who knew he/she wasn't going to be able to get medic, and chose traitor instead.
so when draft order is revealed: medics, if you get your roles, PROTECT THE TOP 5 OR SO. On May 15 2011 07:17 tnkted wrote:Oop! Sorry Barun! To make up for it, I promise to give you credit for all of bums good ideas from now on. Speaking of which, you just posted another point about mason I want to address: Show nested quote +On May 15 2011 06:53 bumatlarge wrote:
Mason is god damn useless for scum. No levelheaded scum will pick it. Tried it, and it sucked. Only drew attention, and they aren't deceiving anyone in this game. If mafia wants to prove me wrong, go ahead and pick it over the hundred other better roles. Pure towny role IMO. (obv not to say you shouldn't have a natural suspicion upon getting inducted into circles, but Im just talking from experience) I haven't ever played in a PM game (other than insane) so I'm not entirely sure how mason circles work traditionally. If I had to guess, I'd say that nobody in the mason circle trusts each other anyway until they're confirmed via dt checks and whatnot. IIRC, there are two separate mason circles in this game; if both of them are chosen (by either town or mafia) those circles are going to get very large very quickly, especially if we have a player who shares both circles. Bigger circles = higher chance of a AoC getting in. IMO, mason (recruiting mason even more so) is an extremely dangerous role that could easily kill a huge chunk of townies at the worst possible time. AoC and Mason = superscummy roles if both of them are taken. If somebody who has played in a PM game or a mason game could tell me how those generally play out, that'd be great. :D Regarding ace's post: Show nested quote +On May 15 2011 06:34 Ace wrote:
Good idea but trying to figure out what the mafia will pick is pretty much a crapshot at this point. There are just too many roles that are dangerous. Like Radfield iirc said - our best bet is to lynch anyone caught with clearly anti-town roles. This way no one can get away with " I was just picking this to deny Mafia from it" excuses.
Imo the top spots should hog as many as the detective roles as possible, and let the middle pickers take prot roles. Mafia having extra KP isn't that scary if there are many prot + known investigation roles to stop them. In essence everyone could literally role claim and just go down the line forming investigations and without a brutal amount of KP Scum would be powerless to stop it. I agree that DTs are the most important roles. Depending on where you are in the list, here is what I personally would choose (and you should too!). From most important to least important (color coded as blue=town, red = scummy): "everything" roles (ie, inventor)DtsMedics (and jailer)information roles (tracker, watcher, etc, perhaps witch)Vet roles (including killproof roles like bulletproof) Killing roles role block/redirection roles (ie, busdriver, role reverser, NRA member, thief)Vote manipulation rolesDoes that seem right to everybody? If you rolecheck somebody and they're on the lower part of this list, the chance that they are scum rise dramatically. On May 15 2011 07:30 tnkted wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2011 06:02 infinitestory wrote:On May 15 2011 01:06 tnkted wrote:
This of course means that anyone who survives the first few nights but is in the top 5 is going to be on my shitlist, unless they've survived a hit already or something. Simple reason is this: Scum is going to get in top 5, and scum is going to shoot into top 5, because one of those 5 is going to have inventor, which is by far the most OP role in this game. Especially if you're creative. immune to actions, anyone? cakebomb? free caffemetamine (extra turn at night)? Autoframe? doublekill? the list goes on. Inventor is deadly in the hands of scum and even deadlier in the hands of town.
There has been some talk about a traitor; I hadn't realized this, but bums right. Somebody is certain to be an asshole. If I had to guess, I'd say its probably going to be somebody lower down on the list, who knew he/she wasn't going to be able to get medic, and chose traitor instead.
so when draft order is revealed: medics, if you get your roles, PROTECT THE TOP 5 OR SO. i'm honestly confused by the combination of these two statements Hmm, good point. If they're alive that means they were protected. Perhaps it would be a better idea to have medics protect other people not in the top 5... the 5 or so after that. If mafia shoots into those high value roles at the top, they will definitely not hit themselves. Is it worth it to let them reveal themselves in exchange for a single power role? Losing inventor would be bad, but I think i'd trade inventor for a scum. On May 15 2011 07:36 tnkted wrote:oh, wait. Mason gets to pick one person only. Show nested quote +Mason
Such a friendly person you are! During the pick phase you will select one person and you will be able to communicate with each other for the rest of the game. Everyone in the mason circle knows who is in it but not their alignment. Please PM me who you wish to be masoned with when you request your role. as opposed to Show nested quote +Recruiting Mason
You are a recruiting mason! You use your secret clubhouse to communicate privately with other players. Every night, I will randomly add a new player to your circle. Players in the circle have the ability to PM each other. Players in the circle will be informed of which players are added to the circle, and players added to the circle will be informed of everybody already in the circle. Circle members may be of any alignment. So AoC is only a danger to the recruiting mason. and its not that unlikely lategame, since its randomly added; lategame is also when the circle is likely to be biggest. Imagine we have 10 people or so left, 5ppl in the circle. AoC has a 20% chance of basically ending the game immediately. Of course, AoC has to live that long, which is unlikely as well, especially if he is rolechecked. On May 15 2011 13:05 tnkted wrote:
Well, I'm going to have a shitty role then. On May 15 2011 13:06 tnkted wrote:
[4][12] IIRC. What should those of us with later picks be aiming for? On May 16 2011 02:34 tnkted wrote:
What about the other godfather role? What will he show up as to rolechecks? The post just makes it appear that he shows up green to alignment checks. It doesn't say anything about rolechecks.
Also, inventor can't make more than one of the same type of item... that means he can make ONE bulletproof vest. He could make like, a redirector item that redirects a bullet to somebody else, or a mirror item that mirrors all actions back on the actioner, but only one bulletproof item. On May 16 2011 03:13 tnkted wrote:
A really good inventer item would be an item that reveals the alignment and the action of the person who uses it to everyone. Such an item would probably have to be a two part item though, to avoid screwing up the game. I thought about combining several of these, but ver is likely to shoot down any multiple-effect items. The solution is to create items that work together!
By this I mean the inventer would invent:
N1: Broadcasting tower, and give it to a townie. The broadcasting tower will announce, in the day post, whatever that townie wants it to say (at least for d1. d2, the townie will post the below).
N2 (to somebody suspicious): Action revealer. Anything that this person did (but not their role, or alignment, simply whether they did an action) is sent to the broadcasting tower.
N3 (to somebody suspicious): Role revealer. Same as above, but the role is broadcasted to everyone. It's up to the inventor if he wants to reveal who he gave this item to.
N4 (to somebody suspicious): Alignment revealer. Obvious what this one does.
N5 (to somebody that is probably green, and unlikely to die): Combined Revealer. Using the power of all three previous items, the combined revealer can be directed at somebody in the game and will reveal the alignment, role, and action they did at night. This information is not given to the townie that uses this item, but rather to the broadcasting tower.
Of course, this plan relies on the inventor AND five specific townies surviving to the end of the game, but if we can pull it off its basically autowin since its a supercheck that reveals action targets, kind of like combining a rolecop, alignment cop, and tracker. In addition, the effects are unfuckupable: the first 3 revealer items are items that are guarrenteed to either confirm or reveal scum, and this way no DT has to reveal himself in thread to tell what he's learned the previous night! On May 16 2011 13:44 tnkted wrote:
Everyone get their role pm? On May 17 2011 00:03 tnkted wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2011 19:12 chaoser wrote:Therefore I'm going to scope out suspects based on small posting with a clear sign of having interests elsewhere during the drafting and role picking stages.
I'm more used to chaoser and deconduo being much more active, regardless of alignment. These two are PMing, or on some IRC/forum chatting it up with scumbuddies about what their schemes are. I'll be putting my vote on chaoser.
##Vote Chaoser My interests are currently with interviews so you'll have to excuse me the last few days. Last interview will be on Tuesday so I will be 100% free after that. That being said, I was busy talking with tnkt about the impending rapture on TLMafia IRC last night so thats my scheme =[ to survive it. http://www.raptureready.com/Here, you can be ready too. ##vote GMarshal. Y U SAY CHUIU JACK IS PROMAFIA? Rapture ready is a fantastic site, full of valuable information. Some real gems of knowledge include: http://www.raptureready.com/faq/faq191.htmlShow nested quote +Is it okay for a man to dress like a woman?
This is one of those issues that the Lord decided to directly address in His Word. Deuteronomy 22:5 says, "A woman must not wear men's clothing, nor a man wear women's clothing, for the Lord your God detests anyone who does this." God made you to be the person He wanted you to be. A man is to live, dress, act and look like a man—the way God intended.
Be sure that you realize, though, that God condemned the act of cross-dressing but, even though He knew you would struggle with this, He loved you so much that He sent His Son to die for you. That kind of love has power that can help you overcome any sin in your life. God wants to help you gain control of this issue. This is what God says about temptation: “No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it.” Now I think we all know who I'm talking about. Mr. Wiggles, you don't need to be afraid of your masculinity! God intended you to be a man, and its time that you started to act like one. You are going against God's word by dressing like a girl; for the sake of your immortal soul, I urge you to stop! No matter what you do, God loves you. I advise you to take a deep, long, look at your relationship with Him and make the right decision. In the meantime, #vote: Mr. Wiggles. I am only pressuring you for the sake of our Lord. Show nested quote +“Lean on, trust in, and be confident in the Lord with all your heart and mind and do not rely on your own women's clothing for insight or understanding.” – Proverbs 3:5 (AMP) Show nested quote +“It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man crossdresser to enter the kingdom of God” On May 17 2011 00:37 tnkted wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2011 00:27 dreamflower wrote:On May 16 2011 17:36 bumatlarge wrote:
Well, also I believe we can rely heavily that a lot of mafia in the beginning will be rather quiet unless they are superactive, because you will want to spend every moment you get discussing exactly what you are doing with your team. Therefore I'm going to scope out suspects based on small posting with a clear sign of having interests elsewhere during the drafting and role picking stages. The offenders of this I find to be: I do apologize for not having posted a great deal since the game started. It's been a while since my last game of Mafia, and I feel extremely rusty and deeply unwilling to just post for the sake of posting when I really don't know what I'm talking about. (Admittedly, Ver's crazy setup hasn't helped either. Plan-concocting has never been my strength, and I can't get my head around the long list of possible and possibly imbalanced roles.) Thus, I've started reading over PYP 3 to see what did and didn't work in a previous PYP game. Hopefully that'll acclimate me more toward playing PYP Mafia games and help me contribute better. In the meantime, I will respond to this: On May 16 2011 15:43 Ace wrote:
Anyone else that didn't claim numbers should soon. I'm surprised no one has made a big deal about number clashing yet like in PYP 1. With so many unique numbers at the top and a bunch of clashes from 16 on down I think focusing our investigations into the clashing sets is a good start.
We somewhat have an idea of what should be in the top slots so if any bad actions that were already discussed happen we know where to look. There are a lot of numbers clashing, for sure. Considering the Mafia can coordinate with each other to avoid their numbers clashing and being bumped down to the bottom, where they're less likely to grab the most valuable roles, I think at least half the people who chose 4 and 9 (the numbers that clashed the most often) are probably town. In a setup like this, I doubt the Mafia would want to be pushed toward the bottom by picking the same numbers as each other. Well, on the other hand, people kept posting 'do not get this role if you are a townie' lists, which contained the best mafia roles. Mafia knows that no townie is gonna pick any of those roles, which means that they could EASILY have gotten later spots and still gotten two GFs, a framer, and other good check-blocking roles. For such a plan, mafia would want HIGH numbers (or numbers likely to be last, like 1-1) in an effort to stay out of the dt-check-drawing environment that is the top 5 or 6. As it turned out, fours and nines fell toward the bottom; neither are very high digits. Of course, I don't know much about PYP. Has this sort of thing happened before? (btw i was kidding about the wiggles vote) On May 17 2011 03:53 tnkted wrote:
...Since GM isn't doing it...
Its time for some GM style pressure!
Chaoser, deconduo, and Caller: who do you think the 3 most suspicious players are, and why?
GM: you said that the reason you aren't acting like a townie (as you usually do) is because you're intimidated by the amount of experienced players that are playing. Why didn't you act intimidated in sleeper cell mafia, in which ace, bum, rean, and several other experienced players were playing? On May 18 2011 06:14 tnkted wrote:
Ok, I have finals this week so this is really difficult to spend time on this.. i should have much more time tomorrow, I just have one project to polish off and then my last final is friday and its an easy one!
In the meantime, I don't want to get modkilled, so I'm voting for myself.
#vote tnkted
I apologize everyone, but I'll be active tomorrow I promise! On May 18 2011 11:21 tnkted wrote:
ok just checked in, ver pmed me i cant vote myself, voting for mr wiggles until i read the thread because i dont want to get modkilled plzkthx. On May 19 2011 04:33 tnkted wrote:Ok, I just submitted three papers. One more final is friday, but its for computer science, so as long as I can remember the differences between public and protected classes I should be ok. Lets talk about incognito. I'm convinced that he is town. Show nested quote +On May 17 2011 07:30 bumatlarge wrote:
If you don't know what to post and you are town, just copy GMarshal. Write whatever you feel will help town, and even if it's awful, we can more easily determine your alignment. Not saying GM is faw shaw townie, but he isn't on my scumdar at all. When barundar posted this earlier I don't think that anyone read it very carefully. Townies should not be afraid to put forth their ideas, no matter how stupid they are. Don't be afraid to accuse somebody you think is scum. It's ok to rely on other people's scumsense when you play, by which I mean that if you are a townie, and act how you naturally feel is the best course of action, you will smell like a townie to those with good scumnoses. It's alright to trust that other people will be able to read you. The easiest way to look town is to actually be town. Its ok to trust yourself; it is harder for a townie to unintentionally act scummy than it is for a scum to unintentionally act scummy.This is a fairly advanced mafia doctrine. Most newer players tend not to believe this; they overvalue their own lives, and think that their death, right now, is the worst possible thing for town. When asked to rationalize this to themselves they say something like, "well, town is wasting a lynch" or "mafia is going to get another kill if we don't thin their numbers tonight." Unless its lylo or getting close to the end of the game, this is almost always false; by the time town is at that point in the game theres so much info out there anyway that a smart town should be able to pick out scummy players already. So how does this mean incog is green? Lets look at one of his posts. I bolded some of the more assertive comments (in spoilers, because the post is long): + Show Spoiler +On May 14 2011 13:30 Incognito wrote:List of invisible posters:GMarshal
Kitaman27
tnktedBum's post is on spot. Fortunately, I already mapped out some stuff. PYP Insane Game Plan The optimal picking strategy revolves around this cute little role: Show nested quote +Thief
You have the ability to steal the role of a specific player one time per game at night, meaning they lose their role and become vanilla, while you gain it. If you steal from a vanilla player, nothing happens to them and you gain nothing. You cannot steal the role of a traitor or mole. Neither you nor they may not use their role the cycle you steal from them. The following cycle after you steal you can use their role freely with the same limits taken from them. For example if the vote rigger already used his double lynch before you stole it, you will not be able to use it. This role obsoletes the PYP1 and PYP3 role picking strategies. The mere existence of the thief on the role list means that it would be seriously harmful for mafia to know where the good roles are. Of course, it’s a no brainer that the good roles are in the beginning part of the list. So my only advice is that if you’re in the beginning of the list, seriously consider picking a role such as NRA member or Meth Man to deter the mafia from hitting/stealing roles from the top of the list.Due to the fact that the mafia can coordinate numbers with each other while the town can’t, it is very likely that mafia will get a spot within the top 3. As shown by the past PYP games, mafia has gotten the first or second spot in all 3 games. Which means town will likely have to be on the defensive, as it is hard to guarantee that we can effectively deny mafia the thief role. The amount of potential KP in this game is huge. This means that there is a huge potential for the game to end quickly. The basic town strategy should be to avoid KP roles, while going heavy on investigative and defensive roles to try to prolong the game.Tier I RolesMafia 2 Detective + Vote Rigger Inventor Chuiu Jack Modern Detective Role Cop Bullet Bill PYP3 Veteran Doctor Bulletproof Mafia 2 Detective combined with the Vote Rigger is a combo that allows us to break up the town into chunks and analyze with greater ease. The formula is simple. The Vote Rigger rigs the Day 1 Vote into 4 roughly equal blocks with 7, 6, 6, and 5 voters each. All the lurkers/suspicious people are piled onto one list, and the Modern Detective uses his vote check to check one vote block each day, starting with the lurkers. Town then proceeds to analyze the split lists, allowing for more focused analyses. The rest of the investigative roles are used to sort through the lists, while the defensive roles prolong the game and squeeze the mafia. The Mafia will want these rolesKingmaker + Politician Thief Caller Godfather Roleblocker Janitor JailKeeper Puppeteer Hero PYP3 Veteran NRA Member CPR Doctor The best mafia combo pick is Kingmaker + Politician. This effectively gives mafia an unlimited anonymous unblockable dayvig power, capable of sniping off all the top town players. Caller Godfather is also an obvious mafia role. As anyone who’s read Caller’s Mafia V knows, Godfather recruiting high level townies with good roles is a town’s worst nightmare. Denying this role is iffy, as a mafia thief has plenty of time to try to find the role and steal it before it can actually be of use. Jailkeeper, roleblocker, and NRA member are powerful roles for the mafia that prevent investigations, and potentially save mafia from NKs. Hero and PYP 3 veteran cause town pain when mafia slip out of lynches and snipe off a townie. Lastly, puppeteer is surprisingly useful for a good mafia arguer, as it allows them to anonymously mislead town and cause tons of chaos in the thread. However, the most critical roles that we need to deny are the Thief, Politician, Jailkeeper, and Roleblocker. Due to the threat of a mafia thief, we can’t discuss precise strategy here, but townies should strongly consider picking one of these 4 roles. By the way KillerSOS is mafia. Also Node is mafia. Independently of whether you think his ideas are good (I disagree with the danger from thief, personally), simply reading his language makes clear that he is doing two things: 1. Taking charge of the situation (using phrases like, "Townies should pick these roles...") 2. Coming up with strategies (using phrases like, "The optimal strategy for town is...") There is a subtle, but important difference in between these two types of statements. Statements that take charge of the situation are assertive; they are always controlling, demanding, and forceful. they tell us to "do" something. Planning statements, however, are often not assertive at all. For example, lets take a look at a post by Chaoser: Show nested quote +On May 17 2011 02:20 chaoser wrote:On May 16 2011 23:41 Incognito wrote:
Whoever is the vote rigger should rig the votes into 4 sections of roughly equal sizes. Try to spread out the people with the same numbers onto different lists. Well first I think, before the vote rigger does this, the day they want to change he vote, they should claim in thread if they're going to do this. Second, I think just randomly making lists isn't that great a plan. Instead we should wait till we have a suspects list and then do a regular vote while moving the people we suspect onto a separate person/vote. We either catch a few mafia or check some people. That being said, we should be wary of roles that can cover themselves which I want to ask Ver about: Which roles won't get caught by a votecheck? This is extremely passive. He says, "I think we should do this..." instead of, "This is the best plan." Then he points out that randomly making lists is stupid, and provides a different idea, which he immediately weakens by pointing out that roles can cover themselves. Why point out the plan in the first place if you hadn't thought it through? I don't think this makes chaoser look scummy in and of itself but it certainly doesn't make me think that's town. The reason for it is this: In this specific post, Chaoser is afraid to take a stand. Incognito, in the post I quoted above, is not afraid. I therefore conclude that Incognito was either scummily trying to take advantage of a power vacuum (which he wasn't, there are plenty of other strong posters/personalities in the thread during this game, Ace and GM and radfield and infinitestory come to mind), or he is town and trusts the rest of us to recognize that he is being honest. Incognito is green. Now, when I last graced your company, GM asked me to post a scumlist. I can do that. Here are the scummiest people on the board: Mr. Wiggles - He's acting like a very cautious version of himself; it's been pointed out several times. Foolishness - Has hardly posted at all, and when he has its been encouraging wifom like this: Show nested quote +On May 17 2011 05:14 Foolishness wrote:On May 17 2011 05:05 Radfield wrote:
It's possible that the reason Incognito is proposing his vote rigging plan is because he took the M2DT role and wants the vote rigger to follow his plan. Either way, that's for the vote rigger to decide, so there's no point in discussing it.
As far as our day 1 lynch goes, we need to be wary of the Copy Cat role. I think in both PYP games I've played, copy cat was taken by mafia. With a town strategy of role denial, this is again a likely choice for mafia. As such, I think the top players in the draft should not be the focus of our Day 1 lynch. I also realize that I'm in the top part of the draft, so my bias is clear, but hopefully my reasoning makes sense.
Therefore, if you want to build a case against someone in the top 6-8 picks(as I do), I recommend you wait until Day 2, when the Copy Cat role has been allocated. Incognito is third to last on the draft order, no way he got one of those two roles. And as someone already pointed out, the obscene amount of number collisions on the bottom half of the draft give way to the idea that most mafia are probably in the top half. Someone said this is a wifom argument, which I have to strongly disagree with. In a game like this with imba roles and a near unlimited amount of imba combo's, would mafia really pick the same numbers so as to possibly construct a wifom argument in the late game to save them from getting lynched? Heck no. If this was a normal PYP game I could potentially see the merit in this, but not in this game. If the mafia spread out and get a lot of members in the top 5 or slots (which very well may be the case this game) they could easily grab some imba combo a win in 2 or 3 days. It's pointless for us to sit here and speculate what kind of imba combo's the mafia might have, but we should definitely assume that 1) there are very many of them and 2) they probably have one. Would mafia do this one plan? No, because this other plan might work better. I see red wine in front of me. Barundar - Has been been using the same weak phrasing as Chaoser did above, except he's been doing it all game. I'm less certain about this. Those are my three scummiest reads (chaoser is a close fourth, but I'll save that for another time). My top three town reads are 1. Incognito - above 2. Radfield - Rad has been probably the most confident townie so far this game, other than possibly Incognito. He's playing like he knows hes town, and hes daring somebody to waste their time trying to prove otherwise. A true red-white-and-blue American. 3. Ace - Ace is really hard to read because he plays such a good scumgame; he completely dominated us in sleeper cell. However this game he's been much less insulting and assertive than he was last time; the difference in behavior leads me to believe that he's town. Sorry for being afk for most of yesterday. By friday (if I live that long!) I should be more active. On May 19 2011 12:41 tnkted wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2011 12:29 Incognito wrote:On May 19 2011 12:21 Foolishness wrote:On May 19 2011 12:17 Incognito wrote:On May 19 2011 12:05 Foolishness wrote:
At the end of the day yesterday, I just thought Incognito had a bad case of Pyrrhuloxitis and wasn't really mafia, since to me some of his arguments against Kav were lol. So I didn't change my vote off of him until the end, but I lost track of time because I was watching proleague. Shit happens. Now I'm not sure what to think anymore. At the very least, Incog's attitude does not help the town in the current situation so I will still be voting him unless new information surfaces.
And frankly, I doubt anything new will come up. If the vote checker checks some list (as planned) would you have them claim the results even if they aren't damning? We all know mafia spread out votes as much as possible, so they will probably get a 1/5 people are mafia in one of the lists. Well big freaking deal since we got a 1/5 chance of randomly killing a mafia with a lynch anyways. I fail to see how vote checking is going to get us anywhere tomorrow. This game has lots of good players, mafia aren't going to be stupid and lose because of a vote check.
If nobody else is going to try to do some normal, mafia analysis, we might as well just throw in the towel now. These vote checks which are going to return 1/5 are mafia aren't going to help anything until day 4 when we get a bunch more vote checks to properly nab the mafia. Game will probably be close to over by then. So what you're trying to say, is that you will be voting me, even though mafia were uninvolved in the lynch and probably spread out their votes, which wouldn't happen unless I'm town. Congratz. I, on the other hand, think we will find out some good information tonight. I also like how you haven't given any analysis. Congratz again. When will people stop being afraid of looking stupid and actually do something? And you've got loads of analysis Mr "let's wait for blues to win us the game"? Yes I do, but if nobody cares about this game, I won't bother. See, I can play this game too! Oh don't be a child. I care about the game. Post your analysis. If you give up, mafia wins. On May 19 2011 13:11 tnkted wrote:
Only one death? apparently mafia didn't get any killing roles.
I guess that probably means they got all the alignment blocking roles, yes? On May 19 2011 13:11 tnkted wrote:
or they didn't get what they wanted. On May 19 2011 22:38 tnkted wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2011 20:24 bumatlarge wrote:
I agree with rad that wiggles should probably kill someone soon. Don't think wiggles is scum, so I'd say use your best judgement wiggies! (CHAOSER)
Read Infy's analysis on incognito, im not really sold yet. Incog told me things I didn't know. I feel that indicates him as town more then not. He is being extremely wishy-washy with his voting, but I've been ignoring that I suppose. Don't really know how he plays, I just hear he's good. He helped at first but lately with picking candidates and stating reasons we haven't been on the same page.
And Ace seems like obvious town at this point. He's a rolechecker, and all the roles I went through with that are just way too pro-town, and for him not to be a rolechecker, both he and rad would have to be scum. That said, protect Ace!
I'm very curious as to what rad is since he isnt voterigger. AGENDA MUCH?
I think rad is probably a townie role, and a sensitive one that Ace doesn't want to reveal... If it was a scummy role, Ace would have just announced it in thread, but instead he's keeping it a secret until rad posts. I think hes trying to prompt rad to claim. I don't know though, I don't understand Ace's play very well. :/ Regarding IF: I think IF is pretty obviously town but as I mentioned earlier I don't think incog is mafia at all. Incog has put himself into the spotlight very early with the hope of leading town, which people naturally find suspicious (look what happened to kavdragon). Maybe a scum incog could get away with this in a less stacked game, but we have no less than four high profile vetrans who have all played with each other multiple times, and that sort of buisness isn't going to work here. Now, I was very suspicious of Node previously but his analysis of foolishness I agree with. Did anyone check node? If Node is green I'd bet the farm that foolishness is scum. I still think foolishness is scum but I don't think Node would bus him at this point unless they knew that he'd been checked, which they would have no way of knowing if they don't have a watcher, which is a stupid role for scum to take anyway. On May 19 2011 22:40 tnkted wrote:oh, and if theres a dirty cop present... I'm paying him 150$ to reveal himself, right now.+ Show Spoiler +I don't have the dough, if someone could lend me 150 bucks i'd be much obliged On May 20 2011 02:33 tnkted wrote:
I've just skimmed through the thread (i'm moving today!) so i dont have time for a big long post explaining this, but if inventions can be misused, whoever has those glasses could theoretically misuse them by starting a fire during the day to kill somebody/burn their house down.
If that person were to type something like #burn incognito we could get a fourth kill today (counting wiggles and incog's just revealed nuke power).
This is assuming of course that inventions could be misused like this. Either way, if rose colored glasses always return red (which seems likely given the name) they have lenses, and those lenses could focus the sun....
also, didn't incog put america on a no-pick list? wtf?
Just an idea. On May 20 2011 02:45 tnkted wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2011 02:39 GMarshal wrote:On May 20 2011 02:33 tnkted wrote:
I've just skimmed through the thread (i'm moving today!) so i dont have time for a big long post explaining this, but if inventions can be misused, whoever has those glasses could theoretically misuse them by starting a fire during the day to kill somebody/burn their house down.
If that person were to type something like #burn incognito we could get a fourth kill today (counting wiggles and incog's just revealed nuke power).
This is assuming of course that inventions could be misused like this. Either way, if rose colored glasses always return red (which seems likely given the name) they have lenses, and those lenses could focus the sun....
also, didn't incog put america on a no-pick list? wtf?
Just an idea. Are you high? Inventions do what their description states nothing else, otherwise who knows what shenanigans people could up to with inventions. Unless you know something about the glasses we don't. no, I was just going from this: Show nested quote +On May 16 2011 03:35 Radfield wrote:On May 16 2011 03:26 infinitestory wrote:
I think we can easily get more pro-town inventions if we think outside the box. e.g.:
A robotic dog which can seek out gunpowder. If given to a person with a gun, it'll sneeze all night and notify everyone. If not, the person gets a onetime Bullet Bill check. The key is not to find pro-town inventions per se, but rather to find pro-town inventions which are unambiguous. A robotic dog could kill a player when they try to use it, a broadcast tower could send a signal to explode a bomb inside a vest that the inventor handed out, etc.Anyways, this is all likely moot, as a townie inventor will probably get roleblocked, and a mafia inventor will just not invent, and claim they got roleblocked. Anyways, we have plenty of time to talk about this, as we have over 72 hours before the inventor has to invent. However, we do need to discuss the pro-town role list, and the 'no pick' list. Is there anything that doesn't belong, or should belong, on those lists?? I've never played a game with an inventor, but a clever player could probably use an item in different ways, beyond what it was intended for. ver, is this true? can you misuse inventor's items? On May 20 2011 03:21 tnkted wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2011 03:13 Node wrote:On May 20 2011 02:45 tnkted wrote:On May 20 2011 02:39 GMarshal wrote:On May 20 2011 02:33 tnkted wrote:
I've just skimmed through the thread (i'm moving today!) so i dont have time for a big long post explaining this, but if inventions can be misused, whoever has those glasses could theoretically misuse them by starting a fire during the day to kill somebody/burn their house down.
If that person were to type something like #burn incognito we could get a fourth kill today (counting wiggles and incog's just revealed nuke power).
This is assuming of course that inventions could be misused like this. Either way, if rose colored glasses always return red (which seems likely given the name) they have lenses, and those lenses could focus the sun....
also, didn't incog put america on a no-pick list? wtf?
Just an idea. Are you high? Inventions do what their description states nothing else, otherwise who knows what shenanigans people could up to with inventions. Unless you know something about the glasses we don't. no, I was just going from this: On May 16 2011 03:35 Radfield wrote:On May 16 2011 03:26 infinitestory wrote:
I think we can easily get more pro-town inventions if we think outside the box. e.g.:
A robotic dog which can seek out gunpowder. If given to a person with a gun, it'll sneeze all night and notify everyone. If not, the person gets a onetime Bullet Bill check. The key is not to find pro-town inventions per se, but rather to find pro-town inventions which are unambiguous. A robotic dog could kill a player when they try to use it, a broadcast tower could send a signal to explode a bomb inside a vest that the inventor handed out, etc.Anyways, this is all likely moot, as a townie inventor will probably get roleblocked, and a mafia inventor will just not invent, and claim they got roleblocked. Anyways, we have plenty of time to talk about this, as we have over 72 hours before the inventor has to invent. However, we do need to discuss the pro-town role list, and the 'no pick' list. Is there anything that doesn't belong, or should belong, on those lists?? I've never played a game with an inventor, but a clever player could probably use an item in different ways, beyond what it was intended for. ver, is this true? can you misuse inventor's items?
Inventor
At night you can invent anything you feel like. Give someone a gun with 1 bullet, give someone more bullets, a med-kit, a detective kit, a telephone or whatever else you can think of. PM me what you want to invent and what player you want to give it to. Of course if you're invention is totally game breaking I won't allow it and you have to invent something else. Be creative ^_^. You can't give yourself anything, and you must tell me how your invention works so I can PM the other player (you cannot trick them to how the invention works). In the Day post there will be a message letting everyone know what was invented, but not who it was given to. You can only invent the same thing (or something very similar) once, and each invention can only be used once by the target. Lastly, you can only give one invention to each player until the remaining alive players have all received an invention.
It sure doesn't seem like there's any "room for interpretation" with inventions. Out of the five people on the Kav voting list, I'm most willing to believe that Chezinu is scum. But now I'm completely unsure about Incognito. I didn't think scum would be willing to risk choosing America, but at the same time I feel that it's extremely anti-town to force three kills in one day, especially when Chezinu might have died by Wiggles' hand, without discussing it at all in public. And if Chezinu is scum, then we've got the mother of all WIFOMs on our hands as we wonder whether or not Incog bussed him -- and because we know (provided GMarshal's not in on this) there's another scum on that list, we'll lynch blindly and waste who knows how many days. I can't take this move as being good for the town. Therefore, Incognito just got a lot more scummy to me. Oh, ok. I guess that settles that then. I agree with the anti-incog wagon here. Also since INCOG HIMSELF agrees with it: Show nested quote +Everyone should agree that getting rid of Chezinu is a pro-town move. Especially now that there is a vote check on the Kavdragon lynch. Now seriously, what mafia would shoot into a vote list that has 2/6 red on it? Unless of course I am conspiring with GMarshal to screw over the town, this doesn't make any sense. But then again, conspiring with GMarshal doesn't make too much sense either if I'm announcing that option. Furthermore, it makes no sense for mafia to take America. Especially after Radfield proclaimed it an anti-town role. But if you think about it, its the most transparent role in the game. There's no way for me to hide from a misuse of the role, and its not like I can use it to kill blatant townspeople without significant backlash. Frankly put, America is a ridiculous option for mafia. There are way better KP roles for them to use. So feel free to pile your votes on me now. Nobody else type the nuke command. When Ver confirms that a nuke has been launched, you can all take your votes off me, ok? Callin' your bluff. #Vote incognito On May 20 2011 21:13 tnkted wrote:
Ok. What the fuck is wrong with this town.
Wiggles, do not lynch incognito. It is clear that he isn't mafia. He's been contributing solid plans all game, with very precise, assertive language. He has posted scumlists. He has written HUGE posts, several times, and all of them were informative and helpful and steered town in... well, in directions if not in the best direction. A guided town is better than a chaotic town.
Wiggles, you should hit Caller or Flamewheel instead. Of the people on the list, Caller seems like most mafia to me. But it should be obvious from his posting style, and if not that, the fact that he posted his thoughts on half the players in the game as a goodbye note should sway you. Scum wouldn't bother; look at how chez is reacting to his imminent death. On May 20 2011 21:16 tnkted wrote:
Could also lynch node, im not certain about him. On May 21 2011 00:43 tnkted wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2011 00:28 Barundar wrote:
I agree with tnkted on incog's reaction being very town, and when i read through incog's reads they seem fair and well reasoned.
The problem with the incog bandwagon since day 1 has been noone really took responsability for it. It has been several weak votes votes that simply met little resistance. Yesterday i kept hoping for ace or foolishness to point out what exactly it was that deemed incog mafia, but they never did. Both of them also switched votes (or in foolishness' case tried) near the end indicating a nowhere near strong case. Today it has been more of the same, with suspicious people like chaoser simply requesting that we stuck to discussing the same targets as yesterday. When incog claims america he is met with an attitude of "you knew you where gonna be suspicious, so you picked the most obvious role no mafia would pick to fool us. Calling your bluff!", which is obviously a bs WIFOM argument. Do you really think that not one of his buddies would support his claim if he was really mafia? feels like im the only one here pointing out the simplest explanation: he really is town, and he picked a role no sane mafia would pick.
My opinion is: we hit mafia with chezinu. There is one scum left between incog, flamewheel, node and caller. Im leaning towards flamewheel being it, but it is by no means a strong reason. So instead we should hit the most obvious scum: killerSOS or chaoser. The calling your bluff post was actually me. Heh. Incog's nuke of chezinu was scummy as hell at the time, so I figured he was trying to direct attention away from him, attention that until that point I had thought was probably undeserved. I expected chezinu to step up and be a man, and start posting scumlists before the buzzer. Instead, he just disappeared and made troll posts; clear mafia signs. There was no reason for incog to reveal himself as america in order to kill chezinu, who is clearly scum at this point. If he wanted to bus chez he could have just pushed for a lynch or told his scumbuddy to say something incriminating. The fact that he resorted to nukes is a sign of innocence. On May 21 2011 10:40 tnkted wrote:
Ok, I'm seriously conflicted on who to vote for, Node or KillerSoS, assuming we have to vote one of those two (which makes sense, given that gm is gonna be doing a votecheck).
Apparently Killer claimed tracker. Thats a bad mafia role. Should Node claim? Personally I'm more leaning towards killer being scum, given his weak results claim, but I'm wondering if Node can do any better.
Node, don't claim yet, I want to see what other people think about this.
Also, I unvoted incognito, so take me off that list. I still have to choose who I want to kill tonight. On May 21 2011 11:44 tnkted wrote:
Ok, interesting choice. I'm ok with it.
If ON flips green, I'm voting KillerSoS. If he flips red I'm going to vote KillerSoS.
f5f5f5f5f5f5 On May 21 2011 11:45 tnkted wrote:
oh, wait a minute. Just reread that. Duh!
##vote KillerSoS On May 21 2011 12:06 tnkted wrote:
LOL On May 21 2011 13:16 tnkted wrote:
Jesus should be IN your head on today of all days, for today is the day of rapture. I hope all of you are just in the eyes of the lord. On May 22 2011 10:43 tnkted wrote:Ok I'm about to run out to a party and celebrate the END OF ZE WORLD but before I go, I should put my thoughts down: Incog/Ace: Stop arguing about the lynch tmrw before we see what happens tonight. Both of you could be dead. I'm surprised ace isn't dead already; incog's life doesn't suprise me so much because mafia could just say "oh we'll lynch him tomorrow, he can't possibly escape again." That being said, I'm not sold on an ace lynch... Incog just posted a big ol' wall of text talking about how ace has avoided his pressure, but from my own (limited) experience playing with ace, he doesn't always RESPOND to pressure. Thats part of what makes him so fustrating. Regardless, neither of the two of them are our most important lynch targets tomorrow. Assuming that Chezinu isn't vig'd tonight, he's almost certain to be our lynch tomorrow - or was the plan to have the kingmaker do it? That's just dandy as well. Meap: No, I am not the Bus Driver. I didn't even try to get that role, despite claiming I wanted it. Actually, the fact that I claimed I would be taking that role should have dissuaded the people lower than me on the list from trying to take it. That would mean that bus driver is somewhere above me. Here's the list (if someone wanted to fill in roles and fill in the blanks, that'd be great): Show nested quote +On May 15 2011 13:01 Ver wrote:
Draft Order Results:
1. Flamewheel
2. Scamp
3. Caller
4. Barundar
5. Radfield claimed but i don't recall what it was
6. GMarshal
7. Deconduo vanilla?
8. Foolishness
9. bumatlarge watcher
10. Kavdragon Vanilla? I don't remember
11. Chaoser
12. Fishball
13. KillerSOS
14. Eiii
15. Infinitestory
16. Dreamflower
17. Mr.Wiggles
18. Original Name Village Idiot
19. tnkted
20. Chezinu
21. Ace
22. Kurumi
23. Incognito
24. Node copycat/inventor
25. kitaman27
Now if we look at the list, who are the people above me that still don't have roles claimed, but are suspicious? Forgive me if I am forgetting a role here, but my suspicion list would include: Chaoser Eiii Foolishness Mr. Wiggles I'm debating whether or not to throw dreamflower/meap on here, but I really suspect that he's actually the assassin. Look at Dreamflower's posting style before she was replaced: it was rare, but huge posts that helped town a lot, which allowed her to stay under towns radar while also staying on townie lists. Thats a sign of either a blue role (we all blue roles!) or a third party. I'm also debating ace for the reasons above. Anyway, time to party like its 1999. IM RAPTURE READY BABY On May 23 2011 02:08 tnkted wrote:
Sigh... Kita I just spent 15 minutes writing up a big long post analyzing everyone on that scumlist and you went and made it entirely irrelevant.
One hopeful thing to note: Bus driver didn't bus chez out of the way of the lynch this morning. That means that bus driver is probably out of gas at this point, otherwise that would have been another free kill.
Longer analytical post is incoming, I have to pick all the good bits out of the post kita ruined. On May 23 2011 04:47 tnkted wrote:Ok, I've been pretty obviously framed here. Look at the vote list: Show nested quote +On May 21 2011 13:09 Ver wrote:
killersos: 10
flamewheel
meapak
kurumi
deconduo
radfield
eiii
incognito
mr. wiggles
tnkted
kitaman
Incognito: 9
infinitestory
killersos
ace
foolishness
chezinu
bumatlarge
caller
chaoser
node: 2
gmarshal
barundar
foolishness: 2
node
tnkted: 1
Fishball
KillerSOS is to be lynched
I'm in the KillerSoS list, which is where everyone expected the votecheck to go. Mafia must have framed as many people in that list as they could. Or, I could have been framed because I was an obvious check target after the bus driving fiasco of yesterday. Hell, I would have checked me. But since this happened, I should claim: I'm medic. I protected rad n1 and i've been protecting GM since then, since it was obvious that he needed protection. Show nested quote +Medic
You have the ability to watch one other player during night, which you must tell me about before the end of night (preferably before night even starts). You may choose not to use this ability also. When a player is watched he cannot die unless the number of people attacking him outnumbers the number of people watching him or his night lives. In other words if two mafia attack a person being watched by one paramedic, the person will die. The town won't know who was saved, but I will let the Paramedic and the person saved know if they were targeted and saved. You also protect against recruitment for the night. On May 23 2011 04:57 tnkted wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2011 04:53 GMarshal wrote:On May 23 2011 04:52 infinitestory wrote:
GM, were you indeed targeted and saved? You should have gotten a notification if so. No. Now lynch that lying scum. I would have immediately claimed had I taken a hit. Or its because you weren't hit? I know I'm not going to get townie points for this, but GM is not dead and wasn't even targeted. Therefore mafia must have a reason for leaving GM alive. Why? because they have framing roles, and these vote checking lists are making them laugh their asses off.
Now, I could analyze myself for you guys if you'd like. If anyone has any questions about my play I'd be happy to answer them. I'd like to point out that I was the first to publicly defend Incog when it looked like he was gonna be lynched, which saved us a power role for another day. The problem with having a weird, uncapitalized, unpronouncable name (its tink ted) is that nobody ever remembers when you contribute something.
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