EPTPick Your Power Insane! - Page 34
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Eiii
United States2566 Posts
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Eiii
United States2566 Posts
On May 17 2011 18:33 Node wrote: Is Chezinu always so crazy? I went through all of his posts and he has yet to contribute in the least to the game. If it was anybody else I have to think that they would be facing a lynch at this point. Flamewheel, you're welcome to say that the quality of my posts has dropped off, but you have to admit that for Chezinu "quality" is just a memory of a dream. The only game I've played with him was Survivor Amazon, but quality posts and analysis wasn't exactly the name of the game there. I clicked through his history from TL Mafia XXX and earlier and while I didn't see anything stellar, he at least seemed to be, you know, playing. I have to think that he's smarter than he's letting on. He's pretty obviously VI, or trying to look like it. Lynching him would be fine. | ||
flamewheel
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
On May 17 2011 18:33 Node wrote: Is Chezinu always so crazy? I went through all of his posts and he has yet to contribute in the least to the game. If it was anybody else I have to think that they would be facing a lynch at this point. Flamewheel, you're welcome to say that the quality of my posts has dropped off, but you have to admit that for Chezinu "quality" is just a memory of a dream. The only game I've played with him was Survivor Amazon, but quality posts and analysis wasn't exactly the name of the game there. I clicked through his history from TL Mafia XXX and earlier and while I didn't see anything stellar, he at least seemed to be, you know, playing. I have to think that he's smarter than he's letting on. I think an excellent word to describe Chezinu is Chezinu. I find it best just to accept him as he is. I'd actually say Chezinu has taught me more about being Mafia than anybody else. | ||
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Barundar
Denmark1582 Posts
Incognito you post that we have a lot of information now, and that we should read over the thread tomorrow. What about we read over the thread now, and actually decide on the targets that has something on them? I don't see the point of just being content with the current situation, that really only favors scum. | ||
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Kavdragon is putting in lots of effort, and making mistakes. If anything this looks pro-town, not anti-town. Incongito is too great a town asset to lynch off his Day 1 behavior, especially since he claims he's been out of town. (By the way, I appreciate that you ignored all my posts and then called me an invisible poster  )On May 17 2011 15:07 Eiii wrote: Do I think decon is mafia? Probably not, after pulling a post like that. Do I think that there's a decent chance we're going to lynch mafia today if we ignore decon? Nope. Do I think that lynching someone who's either VI or a townie with apparently no role who's lost interest in the game and probably won't contribute much is better than tunneling in on one or two 'suspicious' posts from an active player or one who looks lurk-y now for whatever reason but could hold a helpful role or perk up and contribute more in the next few days? Definitely. Look, I don't ever have much confidence in day 1 lynches. Like ace has said, it just seems like sifting through peoples' posts and emphasizing possible reasons that they *could* be scum. I don't see anything that makes me especially confident that we're on the right track today and I'm pretty clueless so far as well. At best decon is VI and we take him out of the game early and avoid lynching someone green tonight. At best-best mafia is retarded, and decon is a red zombie or something. At worst decon is for some crazy reason lying and actually holds the most useful role in the world but decided to tell us to kill him just for fun. Probably decon actually did have a specific set of roles he wanted to play and he wasn't able to pick any up, so he's not that interested in playing the game. In terms of people I think are scummy, I think caller and chez have been posting pretty dumb things, but that's about all I've got  I think you're wrong here Eiii, lynching easy targets(like non-contributing or inactive players) only helps the mafia by giving them an easy out. We have an absolute ton of info so far, and a decent chance of killing scum today, better in my mind than any other normal game, since we basically have a 96 hour Day 1. Easy targets who give us nothing at this point: Deconduo, KillerSOS, Fishball(hello? FIshball? Are you there? Are you playing?) OriginalName: Tentative, Spammy, Jokey, One Liners.... even has a standard medium length contributy post which says almost nothing. Unfortunately he has been called out by several other scummy players, so he could just be an easy target. Mr Wiggles: Did a small amount of leg-work looking at roles, Medium sized posts with minimal info, recapping, content to continue discussing plans and roles. Best of all, he makes a very long-winded post after getting called out, which is full of various themes. A good target tknted: So far I'm undecided. Contributed a few ideas, and a bit of his own opinions which is good. Yet to weigh in on the lynch. Please post more. Node: Decent target. Talks about the mafia over and over, what they would do, why they would do, how they would do. Then proceeds to spam it up, direct suspicion at chezinu(always a safe play). He also semi-defends Kurumi, which is good, since kurumi is an easy target to pick on from the looks of things. There is also one other player on my list, who I think is the most likely to be scum and our best target. I would rather not pressure him/her right now though, because I want to see what they do on their own. In the absence of talking about my last target, I think the best lynch for the moment is Mr. Wiggles. Anyone agree or disagree? | ||
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Kitaman27, what do you think of lynching Barundar? | ||
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
##Vote Barundar | ||
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bumatlarge
United States4567 Posts
I'll look into barundar's play raddy, we'll share stories and laugh the whole night, have a grand lark. | ||
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
1.) it lets the mafia lynch whoever they feel like lynching 2.) Makes list checks, which we all agree are a strong ability, much weaker I think we should narrow our list of targets down to three, maybe four candidates. I propose the following two candidates as prime targets: Node: Not a single one of his posts is memorable, and reading over them all he has done is shoot down plans and gone after "easy" targets like Chezinu, who are better suited to policy vigilate shots rather than lynches Eiii- On May 17 2011 10:31 Eiii wrote: Oh man, decon just made himself the perfect placeholder vote candidate. Or maybe even a good lynch candidate! :D This post is so scummy its not even funny, it shows a complete disregard for the power of his vote and a "yay easy bandwagon" attitude that is at the very least anti-town, if not outright scummy On KillerSOS His response to pressure has been to continue to post nothing of use. This upsets me... I propose that he get night killed too if we have a vigi who is kind enough to shoot him, since so far he has been completely useless. Also, although I will not act on it now, as I don't want to add even more targets to the discussion, FoS on Kitaman27, who has so far contributed next to nothing, he proposed a high town KP plan and the never spoke of it again, and then pushed the really easy target of decon. | ||
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GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
##Unvote ##Vote: Node | ||
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bumatlarge
United States4567 Posts
Can the normal GF change the role/alignment of any player or just mafia? Is he essentially a stronger framer? I still think a better and safer lynch would be chaoser or deconduo. Also rad, did you confirm that you are vote rigger or are you going to leave it a secret? I have plans if you'd like to share. | ||
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Barundar
Denmark1582 Posts
He doesn't say anything of value This annoy me bum, no need to downplay my points. If you disagree fine, but then disagree with what I'm saying, don't try to belittle me. | ||
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Kurumi
Poland6130 Posts
I will re-read Barundar's posts now and maybe write something useful based on those. PS.Funny how Incognito listed me as Invisible Poster again,while I wrote some posts and backed up my Fishball vote. | ||
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Fishball
Canada4788 Posts
On May 17 2011 19:42 Radfield wrote: Fishball(hello? FIshball? Are you there? Are you playing?) Oh I'm here all right. Just seems like your definition of "play" is different to mine. | ||
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Kurumi
Poland6130 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On May 17 2011 16:11 Barundar wrote: Seems like you have all forgotten about the copy cat. With our first lynch we have an excellent opportunity to let the town decide what role the copy cat gets. If we lynch a vanilla, like deconduo claims to be, we effectively let scum decide who they want the copy cat to be, an easy choice is to just shoot into the top and grap a free role. Now I have no idea if copy cat went to mafia this time, but it certainly did last time I played. For the same reason I would be against lynching Scamp. He is number 2 pick, he is bound to have a sick role. If we give that role to the copy cat, we just end up with a sick role in an unknown position. I agree scamp is suspicious, but we will have to deal with him another day. Third, it helps us absolutely nothing to have ~10 suspects day 1. We won't get any information from being spread out like this, list checkers won't have anything to work with, and no one feels pressured. Not to mention with a multitude of targets, scum is going to pick who is going to get lynched, simple as. We don't need new suspects with every post, sorry to use you as an example GM, but you post you will have a look at KillerSOS, and 10 minutes later you have a finished analysis dubbing him scum. Next on your list is Dreamflower. Do you expect to nail the whole freaking team half a day into day 1? Have a look at the voting thread. So far we have: + Show Spoiler [current votes] + Incognito: 3 Ace, infinitestory, Foolishness deconduo: 3 kitaman27, Node, Eiii chaoser: 2 bumatlarge, incognito cheznu: 1 Fishball GMarshal: 1 chaoser Fishball: 1 kurumi KillerSoS: 1 GMarshal Mr.Wiggles: 1 Kavdragon scamp: 1 deconduo 9 targets in total. 6 people with 1 vote. Now I'm sure all of you have an excellent reason for why exactly your target is scum, but it clearly isn't convincing to the rest of us. So will you please consider joining one of the other targets? I don't want to limit discussion, and if you find someone obvious scum by all means go for it, but the way this is heading we won't get much useful information going into day 2. The three leading targets is incognito, deconduo and chaoser. Of the three I'm the least inclined to vote for deconduo for the reasons stated above. Chaoser has been dropping a bunch of one liners despite claiming to be busy. Yet the votes on incognito are the most convincing, I doubt both Ace and Foolishness would be mafia for balance purposes. I'd like to hear a better reasoning for incognitos votes than "I brought up the vote rigger combo idea, hence I must be town". Lastly I could be convinced to a policy lynch on cheznu. Whatever role he have, I'm sure it would disappoint the Copy Cat. + Show Spoiler + Seems like you have all forgotten about the copy cat. With our first lynch we have an excellent opportunity to let the town decide what role the copy cat gets. If we lynch a vanilla, like deconduo claims to be, we effectively let scum decide who they want the copy cat to be, an easy choice is to just shoot into the top and grap a free role. Wait You want to lynch a townie who has the worst role? I don't get it. We should try to do our best to lynch the scum (very unlikely on Day 1,but we can still manage to) You're defending someone who claimed vanilla townie on Day1 which is SUSPICIOUS,why would You say "Guys I am really not blue/red(or whatever we name roles with power) I am just vanilla townie,don't kill me" and act weird too. + Show Spoiler + For the same reason I would be against lynching Scamp. He is number 2 pick, he is bound to have a sick role. If we give that role to the copy cat, we just end up with a sick role in an unknown position. I agree scamp is suspicious, but we will have to deal with him another day. "He has good role and he is 100% town,don't lynch him believe me!" What? We should drop Scamp discussion if he does something weird because his role can be copied? You were discussing Red Copy Cat,if Scamp's red we shouldn't lynch him? What's exactly the logic behind this? + Show Spoiler + Third, it helps us absolutely nothing to have ~10 suspects day 1 We still have enough time to deal with that many suspects. + Show Spoiler + We won't get any information from being spread out like this, list checkers won't have anything to work with, and no one feels pressured. Not to mention with a multitude of targets, scum is going to pick who is going to get lynched, simple as. Aha.. Wouldn't that mean checking the vote list on person lynched a good move? I mean,according to You Mafia is in charge of lynching. + Show Spoiler + 9 targets in total. 6 people with 1 vote. Now I'm sure all of you have an excellent reason for why exactly your target is scum, but it clearly isn't convincing to the rest of us. So will you please consider joining one of the other targets? I don't want to limit discussion, and if you find someone obvious scum by all means go for it, but the way this is heading we won't get much useful information going into day 2. Probably half of the "people with 1 vote" are a temporary votes. Isn't the point of this game is to convince someone to think You're right? As Scum You want to make Town think You're Town,as Town You want Your suspect to look Scum for other Townies so You can lynch that person. There are some people who are acting suspicious and are useless to town,am I supposed to leave them be? I NEED to point out that someone's doing something wrong. I agree in the most cases that spread-out votes are bad,but we have plenty of time and there's going to be a lot more posting,Day 1 lynches are hard and it has been mentioned already in this thread. + Show Spoiler + Lastly I could be convinced to a policy lynch on cheznu. Whatever role he have, I'm sure it would disappoint the Copy Cat. "I don't care if he is Red or Green or actually has a good role" Really? We're going to sacrifice (probably townie,despite his crazy posting) just to make Copy Cat bad? What if Copy Cat is actually town? What if Chezinu is the Copy Cat? We can't be sure of anything right now and lynching just because of that has no sense,why we should drop the scummiest target for "The Least Attractive for Copy Cat"? While Your logic is a bit flawed in my opinion (lynching bad role townies instead of scum) I don't think You're Scum,but You're a bit suspicious, Barundar | ||
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Barundar
Denmark1582 Posts
My argument against lynching Scamp is also based on the risk of the copy cat. People say there is no copy cat because scum has better options, but there has been a scum copy cat in the other PYP's, so I think it's a valid concern. For that reason I consider it risky to lynching in to the top, it can in my opinion wait until tomorrow. But I am obviously biased here, so feel free to have another opinion. I'm fine with you pressuring people that are not participating Kurumi, in fact I consider it pretty pro town by you. But I encourage you to change your vote to a vote that matters for the lynch, in case your pressure doesn't convince the town, and pick it up again afterwards. The problem as I see it is that at the moment the votes are everywhere, effectively negating any pressure on any of the targets. | ||
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Kurumi
Poland6130 Posts
On May 17 2011 09:18 deconduo wrote: If I was planning to pick VI I would hardly start off by saying 'I think I'll pick VI' I really am just a normal townie. Also he said he "has feeling" that he is mole. | ||
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
On May 17 2011 16:23 Caller wrote: I wasn't going to say anything, but then I realized that I've seen a similar so-called "pressure" strategy many, many times before. What happened? It was a mafia trying to out Blues, and sure enough, Cop got outed Day 1, game went downhill from there: There's applying pressure, and then there's trying to win arguments. What you are doing here is just trying to win an argument. My intention has been never been to just "win" arguments. It has been to get information. If it appears differently, then it is because of my poor skill at this game, not out of any malicious intent. If this has been a strategy for mafia in the past, I was unaware of it. If I am mafia, I think that it will become pretty clear soon as I am both in the spotlight, and posting a lot. I've been looking around and I've noticed three types of people (many exceptions of course, cough Chezinu cough), which I'm going to group into three categories. A) People who are taking risks. These are people like Incognito and Flamewheel. B) People who are pussyfooting around and not committing to anything. This should be fairly obvious. C) People who claim to be doing things because it is pro-town while at the same time doing B. This includes people like you. Your argument is this: if we can get information, it is a good thing. This is the same argument certain players have made before-namely, lynching people is good for information. Yes, my argument is that more information benefits the town. No, I disagree with lynching for information. I've never said that before, and it's not something that logically follows from my ideals. As I stated earlier, the pressure was never there with the intent to get someone lynched, it was there to evoke a response. Mafia are not the type of players that take risks. They in fact avoid risks because they have certainty available. Why rely on risk when you have less resources? If every lynch was a 50/50 coinflip between Mafia and Town, Mafia would lose very quickly. Therefore, it is natural for Mafia, whom have an information advantage in this game, to rely on certainty and to avoid risks whenever possible. To that extent, Incognito and Flamewheel both are giving off town vibes. But they are also tricky bastards, so they're still on notice. On the other hand, we have people who aren't committing to anything. This is a sign of either stupid townies or stupid mafia. More likely mafia, because as I said above mafia don't take risks. But they don't matter right now because both of those parties are relatively ineffective this early in the game. Then we have people that are like you. You have played very interestingly-sure, you have been pressuring people, including me, so this could easily be seen as an OMGUS, except it's not. In your very words, you have been pressuring people to get a reaction. That's nice and all, but you yourself have given a reaction in response to Ace's pressure per se. What is this reaction, you ask? It's this: You do three things here: A) Said because I did X, therefore I am not fishy. B) Said to the pressurer that you yourself are fishy, therefore your opinion doesn't count C) Said "I find you suspicious, but I'm not going to do anything about it and instead go after other people." D) Have essentially provided cover for yourself through saying Not at all. First explained my behavior, and summarized it for Ace. Then I told him that I was suspicious of him, which is true, but at the same time I publically acknowledge that I don't trust my read of him. If I didn't think his opinion counted, why would I continue to talk/respond to him? Like I said, I don't trust my ability to read someone who is as skilled a player as Ace is. It's not something that anyone could accurately read day 1, so I'm leaving it alone. I said all that to show him that I am indeed thinking reasonably, and not blindly donning "mafia goggles". therefore justifying any consequences that may potentially result of your actions. Your entire argument basically boils down to "I'm doing this, therefore I'm advancing town's cause, therefore I'm a townie, therefore anything bad that happens is not my fault because I'm a townie." No. That's a terrible excuse, and not one that I can claim. Townies do bad things all the time. Look at what Dr.H did to me in my last game: He lynched me day 1. I still hold that his play style created a hostile environment. Townies can still do bad things, and it is still their fault when it happens. Except this is the scummiest possible argument possible. You don't commit to anything, in the interest of just "getting reactions," and absolve yourself from say, the likelihood that your scum team is going to use the fruits of your "pressure" to figure out who has the stronger roles and shoot them first. You even proceed to make intentionally weak arguments such as using numbers to find mafia-in your own words you even admit that it was a shitty strategy. Would you say that I have not committed to this strategy of getting information, even when ace criticized me for it since my very first post? In addition, don't think that I didn't mean the FoS's that I put out. Those were actual opinions on who I think is scum. I don't apply random pressure, but I wasn't willing to wait for a full case to be found on day one either. And you admit that's how you argue, as well: So we have someone who's playing safe, making shit arguments so people can argue them, never commits to anything-just "pressures until he gets a reaction"-claiming this is all in the name of the greater good, that everybody else should follow suit, and so on and so forth. You've layered your arguments with lots of defenses and absolve yourself of responsibility. This isn't something town does-look in this post, made by someone whom is quite possibly a sneaky bastard but is giving out strong town vibes: I claim all responsibility for my actions. For instance, when I started throwing fos around, I never intended for lots of people to follow suit. If everyone is doing what I am, then it just becomes a confused mess. So I consider myself responsible for starting random fos's, and I'll try my best to shut them down without being hypocritical. This man has balls. Shrugs off an accusation by doing the most direct thing possible. Personally takes responsibility for any holes in his actions. Isn't afraid in general. Seems a bit different, eh? In any case, given the above, I'd like to continue the fingerpointing. ##FOS Kavdragon As I said, it wasn't about getting everyone to point fingers. I'm not saying that people shouldn't point fingers at me, but that we don't need everyone pointing fingers. I welcome both the spotlight that you say I have been avoiding, and the FoS, and under pressure, I am confident that my town alignment will be clear. | ||
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