TL Mafia Idea Factory - Page 7

On July 03 2011 03:42 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Mhmmm, I like millers as a role, and wish there were more of them. This actually helps with flexibility of the GF too, as a more veteran player caught as red can more easily and plausibly argue being a miller than a newer player, freeing up the role of GF for others.

Also, people seem too hung up on blue roles, DTs, and "confirmed" scum and town recently, and more millers, or even multiple GFs in some set-ups, would help counteract this, in my opinion.

On July 03 2011 08:44 GMarshal wrote:

I think we need to do two things to help that actually.
1.) Give the mafia a way to wreck claims. A day vigi, an assassin, something that brutally punishes people for claiming.

2.) A framer/cover role, GF is nice, but its static, it would be better in my opinion if the mafia could move the protection around/frame people.

I agree that though that right now mafia feels more like "confirm the town/scum" and less like actual mafia,

On July 03 2011 09:23 Palmar wrote:
I think that in a game with DTs, the mafia should have a framer, every time.

I also keep wondering, why do you guys actually use DTs over classic Cops? Isn't alignment only strong enough?

So, as to balance the information side of things, I'd suggest the following

Godfather
Framer
Roleblocker
Informer (Mafia role cop)


This creates actual strategy for the mafia, not only can they roleblock people that have claimed, but they can also check people they suspect to be power roles. The informer and the framer are both cool cause they give watchers something to do, another role I think is really cool.

On the town side they could have the following information roles

Cop
Watcher
Tracker

This obviously requires the "1 mafia killer per kill" thing to be used.

Some other possibilities I like.

Remove one mafia KP, just start it at 2 in a normal game, but give them 2-4 extra KP they can use. I personally used mafia poisoners in a game, which basically works like planting a bomb on someone. That person becomes "confirmed" for a day, but is guaranteed to die by the end of it. Also, having mafia day vigs that can just immediately shoot people who roleclaim might be a nice idea.

And lastly, here is one more idea on how we might possibly solve the Vigilante autoconfirm thing.

Give the mafia a doctor.

If mafia claims vigi, under normal circumstances the vigi shoots anyone who counterclaims him or counterclaims his kills, thus he's confirmed as soon as he's claimed a kill, and the mafia can't do jack about it.

But if the mafia can actually protect their own claim, then the vigi cannot confirm that he's the correct one by shooting the mafia.

On July 03 2011 10:56 Ace wrote:



umm....that IS Mafia lol. Mafia can't really stop people from claiming. They can only make it difficult for Town to confirm their claims. Thats why Roleblockers are so good in Mafia hands.

The only way besides no-flip to make it hard for the Town to confirm players is to give them very few Power Roles or give the Mafia a bunch of good ones. All of that to stop players from being confirmed Town is a lot of hassle for little gain.

Also if Mafia ever Day Vigi'd anyone for claiming in a Town with even semi alive people they would be lynched.

1.) It depends. I thought most people ONLY use Alignment Checking DTs though. You usually won't see a Role Cop unless it's a special kind of game. In Normals no one uses Role Cops because they are kind of broken there.

2.) As I said before, giving the Mafia a Godfather, Framer and Roleblocker is pretty much overkill. Why even have a Framer if you have a Godfather? Then a Role Cop too? Unless the Town is swimming in Trackers, Bullet Bills (Gunsmiths) and other monster PRs then why would the Scum need all of that to stop people from claiming? The only one that prevents that is the Roleblocker.

3.) Likewise, if the town is going to have Cop/Watcher/Tracker then the Mafia is going to complain if their Roleblocker ever dies. Watch the Cop claim. Watch the Medic claim. Watch the Watcher watch the medic every night while the Medic prots the Cop.

4.) Even with a Doctor it's very hard to stop a Vigilante from self-confirming. That's just the nature of the role. That said that's why Mafia have a RB, or just kill him. Even if they can't unless the Vigilante is actually good leaving him alive to shoot Townies isn't a bad idea. It's almost like asking how can the Mafia stop Masons from confirming themselves? They can't do anything about it.

On July 03 2011 14:56 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Actually, just as an additional note, a lot of my first comment, has to do with mentality as well. This is just the feeling I got in the last few games I've played, that people want to sit around and let blues confirm people, or won't argue if someone is scum or not at all, and just lynch based on whatever a "confirmed" townie tells them. I might not be explaining this great, as I'm mildly intoxicated, but I hope you understand. I just want to see some mechanics that brutally punish players for not scum-hunting and instead relying on power roles to win the game. :p

On July 03 2011 15:05 GGQ wrote:
I'm not sure if this has been suggested, but what about a lawyer instead of a godfather? Lawyer is like a framer, but he picks a mafia player to appear innocent to checks. Together with the threat of millers, it still means that dt checks can't be considered 100% reliable.

On July 03 2011 08:15 sinani206 wrote:
I want a clue game.

On July 03 2011 14:56 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Actually, just as an additional note, a lot of my first comment, has to do with mentality as well. This is just the feeling I got in the last few games I've played, that people want to sit around and let blues confirm people, or won't argue if someone is scum or not at all, and just lynch based on whatever a "confirmed" townie tells them. I might not be explaining this great, as I'm mildly intoxicated, but I hope you understand. I just want to see some mechanics that brutally punish players for not scum-hunting and instead relying on power roles to win the game. :p

You are Town Aligned! Your role options are:
a) Vanilla: You get to vote during the day, and unlike blue roles, your vote actually counts.

b) Vigilante: You have 1 KP you can use after Night 1

C) Medic: blah blah

On July 04 2011 01:07 Radfield wrote:
Anyways, has anyone ever ran some type of multiple choice mafia? Where in your role pm you are given an option of different roles, and you have to pick only one. For Example:



The crux being that while blue roles vote along with everyone else, their votes don't actually count, so if the whole town took blue roles, they would have no lynch power. Same would go for mafia, they would have a choice of roles(medic, bomber, framer, lawyer, roleblocker, rolecop, etc.), but only a vanilla mafia goon would be able to have a vote towards lynching. Also, you would need to make sure that only so many of a certain role could possibly be in the game. So only 3 detective roles would go out as options, and only 3 medic roles max, only 3 vig roles max, etc(or whatever). This might mean that each player only gets two options though: a blue or a vanilla.

Thoughts on a set-up like this? Would it be fun? Would there be any chance of balancing it? Would the entire town just take blues, and forsake the lynch? If that was the case, then a player who actually took Vanilla would have 1 KP per day.

You could even make it so that for each 2 dt roles in the game, 1 miller is inserted; or for each 2 vigis, 1 mafia member gets a second night life(or something like that). Or conversely mafia could be given their role choices after town has picked, meaning the host could tailor the game towards balance.

These are all just thoughts though

On July 04 2011 02:24 iGrok wrote:
Easiest way to TRAIN players not to rely on DTs (blue roles, but specifically DTs) is to start fucking with sanities.

On July 04 2011 01:30 Qatol wrote:

The closest we have had to something like this is Pick Your Power.

My first thought is the mafia aren't going to have to try hard at all to figure out roleblock targets. Night kills will only be challenging at all if there are so few greens that the mafia could feasibly take over or prevent lynches. If you don't limit vigi selections, the town is going to dominate though.

And I have no idea how to balance something like this because it depends so much on what the players want to pick. I guess giving the mafia abilities after the selections might work, but you don't want to announce the formula you're going to use or the mafia will know what blues are in the game. An alternative is to turn players into traitors based upon how many blues are picked.