EPTTL Mafia Idea Factory - Page 6
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Incognito
United States2071 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On July 01 2011 15:25 Qatol wrote: To be fair, vets were rarely used properly to begin with. It isn't like the role being misused is a recent phenomenon. But it's a tragedy if the Godfather role is misused, especially considering the mafia usually get to assign it these days. I think it's turning into a status symbol, a "I'm the best player on this team so I should be Godfather," rather than a role which the team uses strategically based upon plans for the game and playing styles of the members. Often you want to use such a role on your biggest name player, but it should be something the mafia thinks about instead of an automatic pick. Why did people start allowing the Scum team to pick their GF anyway? Guess we should have allowed people to pick who they are Masoned with a long time ago just to see Scum squirm. | ||
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Kenpachi
United States9908 Posts
Also to Ace, because the best player is usually Godfather, Its quite easy to assume the godfather is a veteran like you RoL, and BC. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7876 Posts
On July 01 2011 16:12 Kenpachi wrote: I think i should be Godfather every game. :D Also to Ace, because the best player is usually Godfather, Its quite easy to assume the godfather is a veteran like you RoL, and BC. Every game I am gf my entire team tells me to have it. I usually try to convince someone else to take it yet no one ever does because "you are most likely to be dt checked of all of us" Not sure if other vets just straight out request to take the role, but I never really have a say in the matter. | ||
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Qatol
United States3165 Posts
On July 01 2011 19:36 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Every game I am gf my entire team tells me to have it. I usually try to convince someone else to take it yet no one ever does because "you are most likely to be dt checked of all of us" Not sure if other vets just straight out request to take the role, but I never really have a say in the matter. Well that's on you to argue about playing styles and whatnot more. You're also more likely to be able to argue miller than your teammates. Ace, we have been allowing the team to pick their godfather since mafia 9 I believe, with the original rationale that it allows the mafia to be more flexible and it is less likely to screw over the mafia like we were in mafia 7 (I had already started running for mayor before I even got the godfather role and because mayors can't be rolechecked, we basically just didn't get the role other than having the threat out there, but even that is suboptimal because we expected me to be lynched early after causing some chaos). Removing the role from use is a bad idea however because it allows detectives to confirm people with rolechecks coming back innocent. I know you don't like detectives, but I doubt that role will ever entirely go out of use, so godfather remains an important role to counteract that certainty. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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Qatol
United States3165 Posts
On July 02 2011 05:43 Ace wrote: Detectives are always going to do that - that's why you give Scum other roles like RB. It's not like the DT can claim and live forever. That isn't the point. You don't care about the detective so much as you don't want the people the detective is checking to be confirmed. | ||
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Caller
Poland8075 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
@Caller: Insane/Paranoid DTs yes. Millers not so much. When you start adding in more Millers and more mislynches the Town tends to lose badly. Even 2 Millers being found in a medium sized game can wreck havoc on a Town. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
Trackers in games with visiting roles (like docs, hatters, framers, hookers) Gunsmiths in games with KP roles (vigis etc.) And then there's always the chance of just limiting checks. Create one-shot role checks. On-death role-checks etc. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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Qatol
United States3165 Posts
On July 02 2011 06:22 Palmar wrote: just use more semi-informative roles? Trackers in games with visiting roles (like docs, hatters, framers, hookers) Gunsmiths in games with KP roles (vigis etc.) And then there's always the chance of just limiting checks. Create one-shot role checks. On-death role-checks etc. Trackers aren't semi-informative. If they visit someone who wasn't killed or claiming a roleblock, they're innocent. I have no idea what a gunsmith is. Limiting checks doesn't really affect the problem of confirmed innocents from rolechecks | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
Gunsmith is a role that can check if someone has a gun, so it has no way of telling between scum, vigilantes, pgos etc. Watchers are great. Reverse Watchers (I have heard the name reporter thrown around for them) are also great. They simply check if a person left his house that night. No way of telling between scum and blues etc. | ||
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Qatol
United States3165 Posts
On July 02 2011 07:29 Palmar wrote: Trackers have no way of telling a doc from a framer. Gunsmith is a role that can check if someone has a gun, so it has no way of telling between scum, vigilantes, pgos etc. Watchers are great. Reverse Watchers (I have heard the name reporter thrown around for them) are also great. They simply check if a person left his house that night. No way of telling between scum and blues etc. And framer is literally the only mafia role that people aren't notified about a visit (so then the target claims). At best, it isn't an improvement over the current situation. Oh Gunsmith = Bullet Bill here. Not good in normal setups. Vigi can just roleclaim if accused. PGO is a terrible role that isn't used any more. What else is townie and has a gun? Reverse watchers confirm greens the way you described them. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
On July 02 2011 08:07 Qatol wrote: And framer is literally the only mafia role that people aren't notified about a visit (so then the target claims). At best, it isn't an improvement over the current situation. Oh Gunsmith = Bullet Bill here. Not good in normal setups. Vigi can just roleclaim if accused. PGO is a terrible role that isn't used any more. What else is townie and has a gun? Reverse watchers confirm greens the way you described them. hmm I thought you guys did the whole "Select target for mafia, and select killer" So only roleblockers and the mafia that actually deliver the kills are in danger. And things like Noisy neighbours can be implemented to screw with it. Anyway, I'm just throwing out ideas. | ||
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Qatol
United States3165 Posts
On July 02 2011 08:23 Palmar wrote: hmm I thought you guys did the whole "Select target for mafia, and select killer" So only roleblockers and the mafia that actually deliver the kills are in danger. And things like Noisy neighbours can be implemented to screw with it. Anyway, I'm just throwing out ideas. Yeah I know you're trying to help. I'm just being the devil's advocate over here to see if we can find something good. I'm definitely not trying to discourage you! I just may or may not have been around the socratic method a little too much in the past few years. Anyways, we have done the "select target and select killer" thing before, either the killer being chosen by the team or the host. If that is the case, then reverse watchers are definitely better. However, they reach the point where I'm not entirely sure the information they give is useful if it can only detect special reds, blues who act (medics/hatters/sometimes vigis/other watchers), and nosy neighbors. | ||
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iGrok
United States5142 Posts
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Qatol
United States3165 Posts
On July 02 2011 12:57 iGrok wrote: Watcher/Trackers seem to do well if you don't like DTs. Not really. Watchers are generally too weak and Trackers are generally too strong. | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On July 02 2011 14:07 Qatol wrote: Not really. Watchers are generally too weak and Trackers are generally too strong. Hey I thought I used my watcher role to the fullest potential in Mafia XXVII >.> I've never liked Paranoid DTs, because it seems like town gets distracted trying to confirm these DTs with ridiculous plans (such as, all DT's check this person and we will lynch him tomorrow). Mid to late game when lynches matter even more it just creates an even bigger face-palm. I do think there should be more miller's in games though. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
Also, people seem too hung up on blue roles, DTs, and "confirmed" scum and town recently, and more millers, or even multiple GFs in some set-ups, would help counteract this, in my opinion. | ||
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