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In the pre-game thread of a currently about to start game Hogwarts the following post was made.
As it is still pre-game and still pre role PM, I will post this. Please be aware of the rules about ongoing games and the probably in progress game if you respond before that game ends.
The question discussed is here is what the rules are. I have no doubt. But if I ever host a game players will need to know where the bounds of my rules in my game would end.
On October 16 2013 20:57 I-be-Pro wrote:The reason I said this is because I don't want it to be a deal in the game. I signed up as a smurf with the intention of not letting people know who I am until the game started and didn't actually intend to smurf throughout the game to begin with. If I'll roll town everyone's happy about this not being a topic if people ignore it because of my promise to tell you d2. No bullshit d1 => happy town If I'll roll mafia it's way easier to boss people around when they know who I am. So basicly my intention is to not have people guess about me because it should be beneficial to both factions that way (for me  ) I could tell some of you to check your Inboxes/Sentboxes at certain dates to give away who I am 100% clean to only a select couple of people but I guess that'd be against the spirit of the game although technically allowed.
noting that you have already said this "I guess that'd be against the spirit of the game"
then there is zero need to read the spoiler. Your post above is only quoted for context so people can see how a real world situation might get here and some other player reach a slightly different but wrong conclusion.
As I am not a host of that game it is also utterly irrelevant,
it (the spoiler) will become relevant if I ever host a game and anyone plays in it.
+ Show Spoiler +The reason it 'felt' like it was against the spirit is because it was. An apparent difference in our background technical skills gives us slightly different takes on it. Mine more resembles a nuclear strike. + Show Spoiler +
If you have a scheme that allows you to transmit information to another player via posts that is 100% proof against interception/interpretation by other players in the game. It is encryption. You may not know how or why it is, but it is.
If you have a background that lets you decide that has rather extreme ramifications See next spoiler
In this particular case it is even more than that.
Encryption algorithms frequently exchange first a secret key by one channel and then the encrypted message via another.
Consider encryption using a one time pad of true random numbers. If you Xor that with message, you get a second equally random list of numbers. If I do that inside sealed box and randomly give out both now 'random' sequences they are totally indistinguishable. Now in some real sense neither 'is' or 'is not' the message. You can transmit either via a secret channel and the other via a public one. At the far end you decrypt them by Xor them again.
Exchanging information based upon the shared common key of when PMs or the contents of PMs exchanged prior to and outside the game is cryptography it would also in my game be communication outside the game, even though the communication happened before the game!!!. Don't do it in any Game I ever run.
Every part of working out what a message means must be public leveraging secure pre-game communication into in game communication is... nah.
yeah basically there is slippery slope that starts here.
"If you have a scheme that allows you to transmit information to another player that is 100% proof against interception by other players in the game. It is encryption."
and when viewed with a creative enough mind, goes weeeeeee. And thats about all I will say, as the slope is slipery.
Except
just don't, playing mafia is discerning peoples alignments from the words they post in the game.
Play mafia. That bit is fun.
/soapbox
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Treasure Chess Mafia
At the start of the game, a player representing each faction will be randomly chosen to play each other in chess. The alignment of the two is unknown. Neither can be lynched, shot, or targeted by any actions for the rest of the game. There are 24-hour deadlines per move with 48-hour days and nights, meaning there are 2 turns per cycle.
Anytime a player captures an enemy piece, some sort of goodies are awarded to the player's team - possibly the entire team, possibly as little as one member. The player may or may not have some say in which member or group of members. If a checkmate occurs before the game ends, a super goodie is given to the winning faction.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On December 06 2013 10:56 LSB wrote:
What do you guys think of this Modkill rule, and would it be appropriate for a Normal Game?
There is a Modkill Reserve that starts at 0. Every townie that gets modkilled increases the reserve by 1. Every mafia that gets modkilled decreases the reserve by 3. If the Modkill Reserve is 2 or above, the Modkill reserve is subtracted by multiples of two until it becomes 1 or 0, and for every multiple of 2 subtracted, Mafia KP is decreased by 1.
The Modkill Reserve cannot decrease Mafia KP below 1, and it cannot increase Mafia KP.
Intentional manipulation of the Modkill Reserve is not allowed.
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On December 06 2013 13:44 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2013 10:56 LSB wrote:
What do you guys think of this Modkill rule, and would it be appropriate for a Normal Game?
There is a Modkill Reserve that starts at 0. Every townie that gets modkilled increases the reserve by 1. Every mafia that gets modkilled decreases the reserve by 3. If the Modkill Reserve is 2 or above, the Modkill reserve is subtracted by multiples of two until it becomes 1 or 0, and for every multiple of 2 subtracted, Mafia KP is decreased by 1.
The Modkill Reserve cannot decrease Mafia KP below 1, and it cannot increase Mafia KP.
Intentional manipulation of the Modkill Reserve is not allowed.
looks interesting. but if modifies the RATE of kills over multiple days, mod killing 2 townies D1 might over the course of the game remove more than 2 KP, so i guess i am misunderstanding it. or the removal is for one night?
Replacing I think works better. If it is or is likely to be an issue replacing like with like is also handy for the feel of fairness.
Replacing a modkilled but starsenses grush with hapa would be not be nice...
Modkilled townies are often (maybe not) from one end of the player list which is not where scum would have shot. Making modkills not even disadvantage the team the player is on is looking for trouble?
Its important also not to create more slippery slopes. Its easy to say stuff is not allowed but making that happen is different. It is already required you played to win con, but some plays sometimes seem a little unexplicable, except by whim or fancy which is perhaps not explicitly against win con but at best didn't aid your team at all. The Oh but i am just next level so i can do any stupid crap I like wears little thin, even if that is true sometimes.
(aka some people have done things I did NOT think was against win con, (or really could have helped) but others thought it was.)
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
So maybe a solution would be to make the vests limited-use? Or perhaps activating a vest costs half a bullet or something?
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half bullets seems tricky.
You could have the reload one load 2 bullets though, that could work. Depends on how fast you want people to die.
Additionally, a global counter of how many bullets are available overall in the phase post could be interesting. That might be too much information when you factor in the "who shot" list as well so it might be an either-or thing. Not sure.
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Reposting here for discussion: Cannons Mini Mafia
16 players: 12 VT, 4 Goon
Current Rules (subject to change):
1. Everyone has a cannon.
2. There is no voting. There is no lynching. There is no dayphase.
3. Each night phase lasts 24 hours.
4. All players may send in one of these three night actions:- a) Load: Adds another shot to the player's inventory. Players begin the game with 1 shot. There is no limit on the number of shots one can have.
- b) Fire: Fires the cannon at a target of the player's choosing, and consumes one shot. If the target is either loading or firing, they will be killed.
- c) Defend: Takes cover for the night and defends against any incoming cannon fire. To prevent stalemates, players may only use this ability a total of five times during the game.
5. Players will not be notified if they were attacked while defending.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On January 10 2014 06:22 Sn0_Man wrote:
half bullets seems tricky.
You could have the reload one load 2 bullets though, that could work. Depends on how fast you want people to die.
Additionally, a global counter of how many bullets are available overall in the phase post could be interesting. That might be too much information when you factor in the "who shot" list as well so it might be an either-or thing. Not sure.
so you can reload for +2 bullets, and vesting OR shooting uses a bullet? That would be interesting but might promote reloading once then just spraying bullets everywhere
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On January 10 2014 06:17 Blazinghand wrote:
So maybe a solution would be to make the vests limited-use? Or perhaps activating a vest costs half a bullet or something?
Limited use is my current intention, although having a bullet cost might be interesting as well.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On January 10 2014 06:23 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2014 06:17 Blazinghand wrote:
So maybe a solution would be to make the vests limited-use? Or perhaps activating a vest costs half a bullet or something? Limited use is my current intention, although having a bullet cost might be interesting as well.
the advantage of limited use is people will be less encouraged to shoot (since spending a bullet to only POTENTIALLY block a bullet is sucky) randomly, and will think a lot about whether or not to vest.
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On January 10 2014 06:23 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2014 06:22 Sn0_Man wrote:
half bullets seems tricky.
You could have the reload one load 2 bullets though, that could work. Depends on how fast you want people to die.
Additionally, a global counter of how many bullets are available overall in the phase post could be interesting. That might be too much information when you factor in the "who shot" list as well so it might be an either-or thing. Not sure. so you can reload for +2 bullets, and vesting OR shooting uses a bullet? That would be interesting but might promote reloading once then just spraying bullets everywhere
I don't think +2 is a good idea. The whole point to loading is that the more people you want to shoot, the more vulnerable you have to make yourself. People firing can be killed as well, though, so perhaps...
I think a bullet count without having a who-shot list would be great actually.
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On January 10 2014 06:23 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2014 06:22 Sn0_Man wrote:
half bullets seems tricky.
You could have the reload one load 2 bullets though, that could work. Depends on how fast you want people to die.
Additionally, a global counter of how many bullets are available overall in the phase post could be interesting. That might be too much information when you factor in the "who shot" list as well so it might be an either-or thing. Not sure. so you can reload for +2 bullets, and vesting OR shooting uses a bullet? That would be interesting but might promote reloading once then just spraying bullets everywhere
Well, town spraying seems suboptimal considering how fast townies would start dropping (like flies). Scum spraying would rapidly give them away since Sentinel plans on having a list of who shot every day.
The shot claiming in this game could get interesting very fast btw.
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On January 10 2014 06:25 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2014 06:23 Blazinghand wrote:On January 10 2014 06:22 Sn0_Man wrote:
half bullets seems tricky.
You could have the reload one load 2 bullets though, that could work. Depends on how fast you want people to die.
Additionally, a global counter of how many bullets are available overall in the phase post could be interesting. That might be too much information when you factor in the "who shot" list as well so it might be an either-or thing. Not sure. so you can reload for +2 bullets, and vesting OR shooting uses a bullet? That would be interesting but might promote reloading once then just spraying bullets everywhere Well, town spraying seems suboptimal considering how fast townies would start dropping (like flies). Scum spraying would rapidly give them away since Sentinel plans on having a list of who shot every day. The shot claiming in this game could get interesting very fast btw.
I think I'm taking off the who-shot list in case we get to that one-scum situation. It would be easy to just tell town to hold their fire, and shoot at anyone who kills a townie.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On January 10 2014 06:27 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2014 06:25 Sn0_Man wrote:On January 10 2014 06:23 Blazinghand wrote:On January 10 2014 06:22 Sn0_Man wrote:
half bullets seems tricky.
You could have the reload one load 2 bullets though, that could work. Depends on how fast you want people to die.
Additionally, a global counter of how many bullets are available overall in the phase post could be interesting. That might be too much information when you factor in the "who shot" list as well so it might be an either-or thing. Not sure. so you can reload for +2 bullets, and vesting OR shooting uses a bullet? That would be interesting but might promote reloading once then just spraying bullets everywhere Well, town spraying seems suboptimal considering how fast townies would start dropping (like flies). Scum spraying would rapidly give them away since Sentinel plans on having a list of who shot every day. The shot claiming in this game could get interesting very fast btw. I think I'm taking off the who-shot list in case we get to that one-scum situation. It would be easy to just tell town to hold their fire, and shoot at anyone who kills a townie.
Scum could just hold HIS fire though right? It's just a matter of time before someone cracks and fires a shot, and that could easily be a townie. I think it would be awesome, like a mexican standoff.
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On January 10 2014 06:28 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2014 06:27 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On January 10 2014 06:25 Sn0_Man wrote:On January 10 2014 06:23 Blazinghand wrote:On January 10 2014 06:22 Sn0_Man wrote:
half bullets seems tricky.
You could have the reload one load 2 bullets though, that could work. Depends on how fast you want people to die.
Additionally, a global counter of how many bullets are available overall in the phase post could be interesting. That might be too much information when you factor in the "who shot" list as well so it might be an either-or thing. Not sure. so you can reload for +2 bullets, and vesting OR shooting uses a bullet? That would be interesting but might promote reloading once then just spraying bullets everywhere Well, town spraying seems suboptimal considering how fast townies would start dropping (like flies). Scum spraying would rapidly give them away since Sentinel plans on having a list of who shot every day. The shot claiming in this game could get interesting very fast btw. I think I'm taking off the who-shot list in case we get to that one-scum situation. It would be easy to just tell town to hold their fire, and shoot at anyone who kills a townie. Scum could just hold HIS fire though right? It's just a matter of time before someone cracks and fires a shot, and that could easily be a townie. I think it would be awesome, like a mexican standoff.
That is true.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On January 10 2014 06:29 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2014 06:28 Blazinghand wrote:On January 10 2014 06:27 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On January 10 2014 06:25 Sn0_Man wrote:On January 10 2014 06:23 Blazinghand wrote:On January 10 2014 06:22 Sn0_Man wrote:
half bullets seems tricky.
You could have the reload one load 2 bullets though, that could work. Depends on how fast you want people to die.
Additionally, a global counter of how many bullets are available overall in the phase post could be interesting. That might be too much information when you factor in the "who shot" list as well so it might be an either-or thing. Not sure. so you can reload for +2 bullets, and vesting OR shooting uses a bullet? That would be interesting but might promote reloading once then just spraying bullets everywhere Well, town spraying seems suboptimal considering how fast townies would start dropping (like flies). Scum spraying would rapidly give them away since Sentinel plans on having a list of who shot every day. The shot claiming in this game could get interesting very fast btw. I think I'm taking off the who-shot list in case we get to that one-scum situation. It would be easy to just tell town to hold their fire, and shoot at anyone who kills a townie. Scum could just hold HIS fire though right? It's just a matter of time before someone cracks and fires a shot, and that could easily be a townie. I think it would be awesome, like a mexican standoff. That is true.
though it could also be super boring? probably not though. TL Mafia has itchy trigger fingers
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Yeah I can really see the endgame being pretty boring/degenerate.
You could have a "misfire" rule where if you load more than X bullets your cannon explodes and you die. Keeps the game moving.
Also you could have a vest count available as well for information purposes. Or the "vest counter" and "bullet counter" could be blue roles to make the info a bit less public and harder to solve. Though blue roles with vests seems dumb.
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EBWOP: For the misfire rule, you *must* do an action every night, and with limited vests and a misfire for overloading, shots WILL happen.
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On January 10 2014 06:31 Sn0_Man wrote:
EBWOP: For the misfire rule, you *must* do an action every night, and with limited vests and a misfire for overloading, shots WILL happen.
Very true. We have 5 vests at the moment, should it be a maximum of 5 bullets at any time as well?
I was thinking of making the default action (i.e. someone needs to leave and can't make it to the game that day) loading anyway, so this way it serves as a sort of backup modkill as well.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
I feel like a maximum of 6 bullets is a bit more fun since that's the most that can fit in a typical revolver
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EPT
