Is it too early to start running for mayor?
TL Mafia XXXVIII
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GMarshal
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Is it too early to start running for mayor? | ||
GMarshal
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(lynch em all!) | ||
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On March 29 2011 05:46 kitaman27 wrote: New people, I declare myself your leader. We shall rise up against the tyrannical GMarshal and put his head on a platter. /in You can try scum, but I'll get you first! For the TOWN! | ||
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On April 01 2011 02:23 urashimakt wrote: It was a joke, sorry. I thought that was clear from his joke about roleclaiming mafia before being able to know. Are you saying you consider who our elected officials are a joke? Added to my scum list, I mean voting for your mayor as a joke...what has TL mafia come to? I remember back in the good old days where we actually lynched people this was taken more seriously... *proceeds to drone on endlessly about the days before the flip mechanic was invented* | ||
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also I think BB might be holding off on account of today being April Fools (lol at the TL auto correct) on TL. oh and flamewheel I dont see you on the player list, you should /in ^_^ | ||
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On April 01 2011 16:08 flamewheel wrote: -__- ^__^ ? | ||
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On April 03 2011 11:15 QuickStriker wrote: Hmm...... very tempting to do this now again.... when was the last time I played mafia here? If someone could tell me the answer to my last mafia (since my memory seems to fade away), I will increase the possibility of the enrollment to this upcoming mafia game by 80%. Haunted Mafia I believe you should /in now | ||
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(The alternative is we implement GM's wonky banlist but that requires tabulating the phases of the moon along with the current winners of the GSL and using it all to generate a matrix that figures out bans for us. [according to my last test with it BM is made a mod of the TL Mafia forums and Ace is permabanned if boxer loses in the TSL]) | ||
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Frankly this isn't the place to discuss it either, if you want to argue about your ban take it to the ban thread or ask the mod to not follow the ban list. I'll just point out that you make a poor first impression with me. Qatol makes this forum work and he deserves more respect then that passive aggressive bs. Either take your ban and smile (or grit your teeth, its indifferent to me) or leave, but dont linger and stir shit in here. Fine representation you are making of the Mafia Forums for all the new players coming in by the way. | ||
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On April 04 2011 05:54 Barundar wrote: Argh wth /in Day 1 lynch=jackal if he goes bowling on tuesday! Barundar! Yay! If we are mafia together we should bus chaoser day 1 | ||
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On April 04 2011 08:58 DoctorHelvetica wrote: no we're busing coag I might be happy with this if coag weren't so good at causing anarchy, I mean if he is scum he will play exactly the same way he plays town, which ensures mass disorganization. | ||
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I fixed it so the word chaos no longer appears in my post ^_^ Also I want this to start soon, I am bored, I mean if this isn't up soon I might have to do silly things like play attention in lectures or something | ||
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Bussing in this context means getting a scumbuddy lynched to get town credibility, most games don't actually have bus drivers as a role. | ||
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Actually when I said day 2 I meant night 2, and only if a vigi shoots me Vote for me anyway! | ||
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*repeats this as a mantra all through the day * | ||
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^__^ | ||
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A suggestion BrownBear when posting times use the [time] tags, it makes it really clear as to what time you are referring to and saves you work ^_^ | ||
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Did you mean Night 0? Or are we not allowed to post/campaign for mayor/roleclaim etc during night 0? (sorry for all the questions ^_^) | ||
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There are no clues and no mechanics to account for a no flip setup, so assume its flip on death | ||
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On April 09 2011 07:46 tnkted wrote: So the roles on the first post are the only roles that are in the game? Thats what "semi-open" means, if I understood it correctly | ||
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Damn you caught my breadcrumb Its ok though, I'm also unlynchable and I reflect kp | ||
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On April 09 2011 08:06 tnkted wrote: Personally I kind of liked how insane was so busy so early because it gave a) a lot of material to analyze really early and b) made refreshing the page so exciting! Makes total sense why everyone else doesn't like it. The all button sure is nice. Maybe someday we can get a mod make the all button disappear after 100 posts. There's a huge difference between activity and spam. Activity is pro-town because it gives information, spam is anti-town because it hides information and makes the thread hard to read. | ||
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On April 09 2011 08:57 OriginalName wrote: So broskis whats the plan? Wait till Day1 and then start actually being able to plan and do crap... | ||
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On April 09 2011 09:20 Lanaia wrote: Do we, uh, talk during night in every TL game or what? Yep, night talking is always allowed on tl (As far as I know) this is night0 though so the game doesn't actually start till this night is over | ||
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On April 09 2011 09:39 DoctorHelvetica wrote: i dont talk at night i think silence during night is the best policy for town I completely disagree with this statement, I think the additional 24 hours of information are really valuable, its like extending the day by 24 hours. I dont think the additonal information we end up giving the mafia that way outweighs that at all. I mean look at Ver's analysis in XXXVII, they were all posted at night. | ||
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As to the day 1 lynch, I think a lurker is absolutely 100% the best call, I've said it before, I *hate* lurkers, they make the endgame hellish. The benefit of having the mayor lead that lynch is that its almost entirely immune to scum influence, since (if we voted right) the mayor will be pro town. Furthermore, since the pardoner/mayor knows who the bodyguards are, meaning that the mafia could hit those roles easier. but if this happens we immediately cast suspicion on the pardoner and the mayor, so in that sense we force the scum to walk a dangerous line, if they snipe the bg too quickly then we know that one of them is the mayor or pardoner, if they leave them then they are leaving a powerful role in play in the form of the mayor or the pardoner Also Kav, my comment about waiting till day 1 to plan and do crap was more out of frustration at the wait than anything else | ||
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On April 10 2011 03:02 kitaman27 wrote: This part gives the mafia more incentive to run as mayor than usual. The last thing they want is two town running around causing trouble, with no way to kill them. The fact that they are rewarded for running, but coming in second also gives them a nice bonus. The pardon ability is an awesome way to completely derail town focus when mafia is in a tough spot. I would feel real unwary having a pardoner around late game if I wasn't sure of his alignment. This means we should focus our attentions on people who run and on really analyzing the hell out of our mayor/pardoner. Also I think that the mayor's power is being understated, he has a triple vote, in the hands of scum that would be lethally dangerous, bringing lylo much, much closer than it should be. Personally I think we should only vote for players we think are probably town, because the idea of having one or both of those power roles in the hands of the mafia is pretty worrying. So yeah, let me state the obvious, make damn sure you are voting for pro town players, as these roles are pretty damn powerful. | ||
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Also I think a really major thing is being overlooked, the Mayor/Pardoner in this game are immune to dts until their BG's are dead, this means that its important that our choice of mayor be a player who is easily read, as opposed to a player who we would be hard pressed to figure out on posting habits alone | ||
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On April 10 2011 04:32 kitaman27 wrote: Alignment should be the main focus. I would much rather have a mayor who I believe to be town, than a mayor who I believe to be good leader or analyzer. Obviously both would be preferable though. This, I utterly and completely agree with this, those roles are far too powerful to risk in the hands of scum. Whoever is running better be really, really, obviously town, or they probably wont have my vote. | ||
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On April 10 2011 04:57 DoctorHelvetica wrote: what happens if the mafia doesn't run Then its a win/win situation for us, mafia just gave up a shot at two really, really useful roles. I'm having a hard time envisioning a scenario where the scumteam dosn't run for mayorship. If for nothing else, if they get a guy up there he is DT proof for a while and they get the names of the BGs | ||
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On April 10 2011 05:01 DoctorHelvetica wrote: and it's a lose situation if they tunnel lynches onto all the mayoral candidates using the exact same argument you just used They can only tunnel lynches if the town lets them tunnel lynches. I personally will be scrutinizing the mayoral candidates first, but that in no way shape or forms means that I will *only* look at them, or that I will refuse to consider anything else. Either way, you make a decent point, we should not focus exclusively on people who run for mayor as lynch targets, but I dont see the harm on giving them some extra scrutiny, at the very least the knowledge that they will be under the magnifying should make scum and assassins think twice about running | ||
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On April 10 2011 05:42 DoctorHelvetica wrote: yeah that would be absurd not to look at them but if we're still arguing about mayor candidates on day 3 then something bad has happened and it's probably because the mafia wanted it to happen i can basically agree with what you said here Then again keeping track of who ran is important, e.g. if we hit lylo with a serious mayor candidate still alive, I'm going to be somewhat suspicious of him, as I expect all the serious campaigners will be vets and at least decent player. Basically who runs for mayor provides us with useful information, we should make use of it, but not obsess over it either. | ||
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tremble mafia for GM is here to destroy you Now, I know there are going to be plenty of other candidates running on platforms of cookies and puppies and flowers and even cats in tophats and monocles. Unfortunately I'm not going to offer you cookies or cats in tophats and monocles, only dead scum, swinging, swinging from a tree. Now why would you vote for GMarshal? 1.) I am the most pro-town player, just look at my play, I do nothing but help town, scumhunt and make the town think. My death in insane was the crumbling point that lead to scum and stupid townies getting Tack lynched. You guys will have no issue seeing if I am town, as if I am I will be posting every five minutes or so, at the very least to berate inactives. If I'm not playing my townie style then by all means hang me. 2.) Despite the fiasco of XXXVII, I am a decent scum hunter, I died in insane because I had 3/6 scum pegged day 1. I fully intend to analyze the scum team into the ground. I might not be Ver, but I'll do my damndest to kill scum. If you've watched me play at all you know I'll stand by my convictions, even if I am the only townie doing so. 3.) I know what I am going to do with my lynch, Im going to use it on the most inactive/lurking player around to make an example, the best part of this is that unlike regular inactive lynches this one is 100% guaranteed to be scum influence free. 4.) Inactives I am going to kill inactive with fiery vengeance, inactives are one of the number one reasons town loses, people who don't post because being a townie is “boring” and allow scum to hide in their midst. Not this game. Not on my watch. 5.) Policy. I'm not going to tolerate any plans that rely on “trust me guys, I'm pro” or “my gut is why you should lynch Qatol!” and I'm going to lynch players who try to make arguments into mudslinging fests that allow scum to happily hide under the spam (See Insane mafia 2). So if you want to make an argument, do so with good points, analysis and in a respectful manner, or I will either ignore you, or make sure you get lynched. 6.) Plans and town direction. The lack of PMs this game means that many plans that rely on circles and claims dont work. However that dosn't mean we can't think about the roles we have at our disposal. For example we have watchers, trackers and DT's thats three different information roles that from day 1 should be threatening scum. “Threatening scum” you ask “dont you mean catching scum?”. Well yes and no. Detectives should most certainly be checking players who are playing off their usual meta and players who they think are acting scummy, but not enough to be called out on, however be aware that with the presence of a godfather nothing is certain. Watchers need to watch whoever they think are going to be hit. Watchers should think of themselves as medics who catch scum, instead of protecting the person, so if you think someone is a target then watch them. Trackers should track who you think is likely scum, if they visit a someone and they die, you know you got something, if they visit and someone dosn't die then you probably have a blue or a mafia roleblocker. if you vote for me I can keep giving us this type of direction, including lists of who I think needs to be Dted, Vigied, Med protected, etc. Im going to do this regardless of whether I am elected or not, but if I'm dead my ability to post helpful lists is going to be greatly diminished 7.) I don’t lie, ever, I may perform gambits, but I don’t lie (with the exception of about my role, I do reserve the right to tell blatant untruths about that), and I endorse the LaL policy, in fact if I am mayor I’ll make sure we follow it as much as possible. 8.) I'm an easy read, you want me as mayor because frankly it doesn't matter if you can role check me or not, you can just look at my posts and say “town” or “scum”. Unlike other players who play a really good game as mafia, I am obviously scum when I am scum and obviously town when I am town. This means that the fact that I cannot be Dted as mayor is irrelevant 9.) I'm GMarshal, the towniest townie and I'm here from beyond the grave to kick the mafia teams ass for killing me in insane Vote GMarshal, for a future in which crows feast upon the flesh of the mafia Vote GMarshal for the purge of every scum player in this town Vote GMarshal for Vengance, retribution and a town victory! you can hide , you can run , but my reach is endless, my touch is your destruction and my eyes see in darkness. I will find you, and when I do, you are finished. | ||
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On April 10 2011 12:03 Kavdragon wrote: I would also like to announce my campaign for mayor. I didn't write up anything fancy this game for my platform, nor will I copy-past it from a previous game. I offer the experience that I have gained from previously being mayor. I offer strong leadership, something that already demonstrated in XXXVI, but I have worked on and further improved on since then. I offer my skills as an analyst. My analysis in XXXVI was key to the town's victory, and while I have not had the chance to demonstrate it since then, I have been talking with veteran players (Ver, BC, and Foolishness) constantly since then about how I can improve my play, and analysis. I will be offering my ideas, opinions, and thoughts openly to make my alignment clear to the town. I offer victory for the town. Vote for Kav! My campaign has prettier pictures than yours! Also if you are elected and I'm stuck as a bg again I'll have an aneurysm! That said, gentlemen don't vote for themselves and I'd be happy to have you as a pardoner with me ##Vote Kavdragon | ||
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Onto actually saying things with meaning. tnkted you'll notice I do analysis when its actually relevant. at this time there is very little to analyze, and frankly the discussion we had about night talking and in general terms the mayorship, while useful to newbies provides very little to analyze as both sides of the night talk discussion have pro-town and anti-town features, hence the discussion was really good for scum to blend in, because weighing in on either side was easy. (scum isn't going to wade in and say "I think you should only roleclaim at night lololol"). What is analyzable about those posts is who seemed to be trying to just fit in. As of right now, I have a FoS for wiggles, reading his posts it seemed to me that he was trying to just blend in, much like Meapak's posts in Insane 2, In insane I died without calling Meapak out on it, so I wont make that mistake this time, so there, FoS wiggles . | ||
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On April 10 2011 13:07 DoctorHelvetica wrote: i'm both aggressive and bad I disagree tnkted, what you need to know is that Dr.H is a long time Mafia Player, so I feel that he is trying something tricky this game (I even think I know, what, but to reveal it would be to spoil half the fun) Either way, you make a good point about looking at the interactions between the players, when you said analysis I assumed you meant PbP analysis, but you are right interplayer interaction is also important to consider. I see it as more valuable when we lynch someone and see their alignment, then now, when alignments are still up in the air (which is when I go back and look over their old posts). Still good call. | ||
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I offer you a counter deal, you put your kp/DT check at the service of the town and we will have medics protect you. Is as good as being the mayor, but it dosn't cost the town those roles. Still kudos for your balls of steel in making that claim | ||
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On April 10 2011 13:25 tnkted wrote: Yeah I'm down with offering some medic protect on him but there is absolutely no way that we can give him the mayorship. As people have said multiple times, we need somebody who can be a good leader. People look to the mayor. He has a PM circle. If mayor isn't town the position is entirely wasted. No he dosn't, where do you get that? He knows the names of the bg's but thats it (thats my understanding of the OP, correct me if I'm glaringly wrong) | ||
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Make sense? | ||
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On April 10 2011 13:28 tnkted wrote: Hmm... On the other hand this would give mafia incentive to be hunting for assassins as well... question for the vets: in games with assassins are assassin targets typically reds or greens? ie, do most assassins act like classic red, with lurking and trying to avoid attention, or do they act like classic greens with analysis and debate? If I were an assassin I would try to dodge the red kps by not being to pro town and avoid the lynch by not being to scummy, hence I would play it by lurking, and/or contributing without contributing to avoid attention. Basically they are walking a fine line, tending more towards scummy play than pro town play (As the mafia have more KP than the town) | ||
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Seriously though, I dont know what you want out of me, I'll provide analysis, I'll write lists of who I think needs to be vigi'd, DTed, Mediced and such, and I'll be doing kill analysis (such as the one I wrote on the last day of XXXVII). But other than that there's not much to plan for, we analyze and find scum, proceed to hang them by the neck till dead, repeat until victory. | ||
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On April 10 2011 13:51 chaoser wrote: The problem with this is that we DON'T know if there are medics or not. Hosts can pull a lawl give em all vets only thing again. Its a risk I'm more than happy to run to keep or mayor or pardoner from insta dissaperaing possibly on day 2 if the mafia is incompetent. And to all the people who are arguing that losing the pardoner is worth it I disagree, because frankly I dont trust having someone with a non town win-con in office, especially considering that the threat of the pardon basically stops last minute bandwagons from scum and makes last minute vote switches much scarier for the scumteam. Personally I dont want to give up the pardoner not even for a dt check and a couple of kills. Instead I offer again, I'll put you at the top of all the medic prot lists in exchange for your kills | ||
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On April 10 2011 14:15 urashimakt wrote: How exactly are the assassins going to prey upon our bodyguards effectively? They don't have contact with the Mafia, their own tools deprecate when used on non-assassin targets, and any open action they make to try to gain some sort of edge leaves them vulnerable to Protactinium who would be invulnerable and able to kill them. The point about him being able to sell bodyguards out is a little easier to see. I still think the benefits outweigh any possible negative, even if he were to try to double agent his way to victory. I agree with DrH on this early call. I think you're trying to guide us into a defensive position, which with 4 KP a night out there I don't want to be caught up in. It dosn't matter how "effective" they are at hitting BGs it matters that they are going to be throwing more KP out there that are likely to hit town. While I agree that my greatest worry is not pissing off the other assassins at the moment, but rather losing a powerful town role in exchange for a dt check, (which is nice) and two kills (which have as much potential to hit town as scum, especially since our "friendly" assassin is going to probably go after whichever suggestions he finds most likely to be other assassins) Its not worth giving a powerful pro town role to someone who does not have our best interests at heart. I say NO to giving a pro-town role to a non-town person | ||
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On April 10 2011 14:28 urashimakt wrote: I don't think the other assassins (if they're wise) are going to be throwing KP at town. It just wouldn't be an effective way to achieve their win condition unless they knew who the bodyguards are, which they aren't going to. As far as giving a powerful green role to a black, I don't agree. He has no reason to pardon anyone that we wouldn't, as far as I can tell. He does, however, bring abilities to the table that I think are more powerful than the pardon. Let me be utterly honest here if I were an assassin and another assassin got elected I would probably say "fuck this" and start gunning for townies out of frustration. Or worse, trying to help the mafia snipe the bgs so I could have a shot at my target. One way an assassin could do this is by detecting a BG with his DT ability and then giving out that information. And yes he has reasons to pardon someone who we would not, lets say the second place person in a vote is someone who he thinks is an assassin he'll happily pardon the first place to get the other person hanged, and potentially win. Also we have no way to make him use his abilities for us, lets say he uses his KP on whoever the fuck he wants, what are we going to do waste a lynch on him and give the mafia another free round of kills? No, more likely than not we'll say "damn you, shoot who we want" and let him live, because we cannot afford to waste a lynch. or if we do lynch him we helped the scum team, congratulations a true lose/lose situation This is a BAD IDEA, we want townies in power, not assassins who are out only for themselves. | ||
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On April 10 2011 14:41 Conversion wrote: Well, you have to account for the time zones and such GM. Some people might not be awake (I'm not supposed to be, but shhh.) Anyways, since there's no voting thread, I guess we sit tight for a bit? And read over posts, of course. AND POST. POST SO WE CAN GET READS ON YOU!!!! sorry for the caps, we dont "sit tight" we think and post our thoughts. Conversion, who do you think is the best mayor candidate right now? And if you had control of the lynch right now who would die? | ||
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On April 10 2011 14:48 Mig wrote: I wasn't trying to repeat what others said I was typing the posts up at the same time. You can see my other post where I basically said the exact same thing as you went up at the same time. If my posts are just saying nothing then I don't have any defense against that haha. I am just adding points I thought were valid. So, to counteract the fact that you have been adding little let me ask you a few little questions Who is your #1 town read? Not counting inactives, who is your number 1 scum read? Who is your favorite Starcraft Player? | ||
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Because as far as I can tell you are playing to your usual town meta. However if you are bored I can give you questions Between all the mayor candidates, which do you think is most likely scum (Assuming they are running) ? Name 2 players who you expected to see more action from who are not posting as much as you think they should Favorite SC BW map? | ||
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Also I can agree with a GMarshal, chaoser mayoral campaign, choaser, you are in charge of the posters. Sorry kav, but I have to vote for my new running mate ##Unvote ##Vote: Chaoser | ||
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If town wants you as pardoner, then there is nothing I can do to stop them, obviously, but for the record my previous argument that if we elect you we have no means of controlling you other than wasting a lynch still stands. I don't want to make you die night one. but I will not vote for someone who I think does not have the towns best interests at heart, sorry. | ||
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Regarding my "I'll lynch the most inactive player" I think I'm going to redact that to "I'll lynch the player who I feel is lurking the most" by lurking I mean posting content-less posts while trying to appear pro town. Is that ok with everyone? Or would you guys prefer if I just hit the most inactive person? | ||
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On April 11 2011 03:38 kitaman27 wrote: Mayor should take a stand. If you "do not think he has the town's best interest at heart", then you should oppose him. You're trying to make sure you don't upset anyone, rather than trying to lead. The thing is I really am unsure, if he were town he'd 100% have my vote for mayor, as he is scary good, but I have a really hard time believing his story that he isn't in this to win it. You know what, fuck it, you are right, I need to step up and take a fucking stance Don't vote a third party assassin into office! Dont allow someone who has no incentive to help us win take over a town role. Give the role to a green (or better a blue), any green, it dosn't have to be me. But the town should most certainly not be putting a neutral in office, after all when he is protected he no longer needs us. My old points stand sorry for the flip flopping guys, I forgot that I can't afford to be as indecisive as I used to be. oh, and kita, since Chaoser retracted his run for pardoner I guess I can make you my running mate ##Vote: Kitaman27 | ||
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As of right now the two lurker lynches I am considering are jackal and wiggles, I'd like to hear thoughts for and against. | ||
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On April 11 2011 04:16 AirbladeOrange wrote: I'm thinking about voting for you for Mayor actually. But only if you will take me out. You can run on the kill airbladeorange platform. The fuck? AO, you are making absolutely no sense. @Jackal, yes I *did* fuck up in XXXVII, but do I get no credit for guessing enough of the scum team day 1 in Insane 2 to make them kill me? Also as far as your lurking goes, I've only seen you make 4-5 real posts... | ||
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On April 11 2011 04:44 tnkted wrote: We can't have protract be mayor. If he plays to his win condition at all, we're left with a mayor who people will constantly second-guess, whose three votes will almost certainly be countered by three switched votes from players who will vote the opposite way of him. In addition, the controversy his every vote will cause will give mafia an excellent opportunity to slip between the cracks and promote conflict in the town. Regardless of whether or not he is the best candidate, electing him would be extremely detrimental to town, if for no other reason than the fact that people are so divided over this. Personally, I don't think he's actually demonstrated to me that hes really the assassin and not the GF framing himself black. If he's who he says he is, then he is absolutely capable of pulling such a trick over on us. Who could possibly counterclaim? Another assassin? They don't know if he's one of them or not. In fact, if I was the godfather and a vet, this is precisely the strategy I would use to get elected mayor. I'd tell everyone I am 'so sick of mafia, I just want to make this game fun' and I would rely on my reputation to convince people that I know what I'm doing. I think I made clear in the previous earlygame (insane 2) my opinion on relying on reputation when I opposed Kav's mayoral campaign. However, he is a tried and proven player and an excellent analyzer. As such, I am tempted to keep him alive... but on a leash. He can't be in a position of power, but to lose such an excellent player this early in the game would be pretty painful. Nonetheless, we are presented with an opportunity here. We have a known target. We can be 100% certain that if we don't elect Protract he is going to be hit tonight. Tnkted's Plan We don't elect Protract. Instead, we use him as bait. Watcher should watch Protract. In the morning, you should post everyone who visited him. Any assassins that visit protract in the night will be revealed to each other (something I'm certain they don't want) and any mafia trying to hit our strongest player will be revealed as well. Of course, we reveal our watcher in this plan, but is it worth it to the assassins to trade their anonymity for one kill? It would completely end their parts in the game by the second night, and would turn an enjoyable game of lurking in the shadows into certain death. Thoughts? Three major points, 1, why do we care if protract lives? You just said you think he could be a really ballsy GF, or what he claims, either way we dont care who takes him out. 2, why do we want to reveal assassins again? We should not care about them, and any resources we waste identifying other assassins are resources not spent protecting pro town players/catching scum. 3.) Assassins can't hit night 1 anyway so putting a watcher on him would be a waste unless scum is stupid and hits them. Basicaly, why would we waste resources on him. I've thought better of my intial reaction of offering him medics. If he isn't pro-town then we have no need to expend resources on him. there are only two reasonable positions here, you either think he is going to help the town and vote him in, or you think he won't and just choose to ignore him from here on out and count on assassins hitting him night 2. Any other plan is wasting town resources that we need to catch scum. | ||
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On April 11 2011 05:40 chaoser wrote: No comment. Can we just lynch pandain day 1 like we always joke we will? You know I was seriously considering that... right now he seems like a liability to the town, his claim seems dubious to me, I actually fear he could just be a vanilla townie claiming DT for shits and giggles. However its most likely a waste, the mafia will take care of him (unless he is the gf, in which case we lynch him day 2 ^_^) I also think that using the BG's as bait is retarded, especialy considering that if you put a watcher on the the bg, he is going to see the other watchers, any stray medics, and any assassins/mafia hitting them. congrats, the watcher now has to give out a list containing quite a few blue roles to get a single scum, wonderful, glad its such a well thought out plan. | ||
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On April 11 2011 06:01 Pandain wrote: actually you know what. IT would still work. I just don't run. I'm not dt Ok, as part of my campaign I announced my belief in LaL, right? Well here is why, if he is a DT he just fucked himself over by claiming, if he is a townie then I dont want him around claiming who knows what, and if he is a GF then I want him dead. Thanks for hurting the town Pandain, I'm really, really tempted to make you my lynch. As a townie or a DT you had no reason to lie to get yourself elected, you could have run on your own merits by presenting the expose the bg's plan. Retarded as it was it showed thought. Lying however just threw the town into a circle of wifom, now even with a DT check we cannot be sure of your alignment, as I am inclined to believe you are the GF. if you aren't then scum is likely to try to kill you on the basis of you possibly being a DT, which means we have to waste valuable medics on you. If you dont die then the town has to worry about you being a GF in later lynches. FUCK PANDIAN, WHY? | ||
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On April 11 2011 06:05 DoctorHelvetica wrote: so vote for me and put protact in as pardoner so we can at least force him to use his powers for us without wasting a significant role on him imo we can't "force" him to do anything without hurting the town... we've gone through this, the only conceivable plan of forcing him to do anything wastes far too many town resources. We can *hope* he does what he says he will, and I'm not voting based on *hope*. Either way, I'm done arguing about pro. | ||
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Kav, I think that your call that Dr.H is scum is flat out wrong, there's no way (in my mind) that the scum team would put out two vets like that day one, especially considering one of them is a really, really influential and powerful player. Still if you get mayor which of them do you think you would lynch? Tbh I have a town read on Dr.H for his mindless aggression, it reminds me sort of coag, except perhaps more refined. | ||
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On April 11 2011 06:34 M0nsterChef wrote: ##Vote: Gmarshal who the hell is this and why is he voting for me? He has no posts in the thread, right? | ||
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On April 11 2011 07:22 DoctorHelvetica wrote: i have a plan and a reason for doing what i do ok trust me mac daddy curiously town lynched takster on a phrase just like this in insane 2. Did you read the part of my campaign where I tell people to provide reasons? Specifically the part about we ignore people who don't explain their reasons? | ||
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Cool, I'll continue to ignore any of your posts that fail to provide reasoning then ^_^ | ||
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Also I hate to say this, but that is a major example of a noncontributing post that looks like a fucking huge wall of text imo, because it is actualy irrelevant to the current situation, it in no way helps the newbies choose a mayor or make any major decisions at the moment. I applaud the effort though, and I agree with the majority of the ideas contained therein | ||
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On April 11 2011 07:32 M0nsterChef wrote: I read the thread and made a vote based on who I think I deserves the role the most. Am I not allowed to vote? What you are not allowed to do is vote without providing reasoning. Why do you think I deserve the role over, say Kav? | ||
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On April 11 2011 07:46 Kavdragon wrote: My current suspect list is Protactinium Chaoser DrHelevetica Chaoser gets added because he was sheeping behind some really bad ideas, adding to the flames of arguments that shouldn't have ever started, and acting generally scummy. I have no analysis yet, so it still a lowish level read, but it's still a read. Oddly enough, GMarshal has not shown himself to be clearly townie to me, and I'm not sure why. It just seems like he could be repeating his townie meta, or it could just be that I'm really used to it being super obvious that he is town. Not a FoS yet, but something that I think is odd. He usually has plans, and that's strangely missing. You'd think that he'd have them since he's running for mayor. Odd. I'd have more plans, but this is a no PM game, with pretty standard roles, I thought my way in circles and most of the clever plans that occurred to me are pretty disruptive to the town, (and yes I toyed with a couple... interesting... ideas). Most of my "plans" this game are reduced to providing guidance to the blues using a limited list. I mean we could try my plan where every morning everyone provides results as if they were a watcher, a tracker and a DT, but I thought that mafia could probably use that to identify the roles so it was a poor idea. Still, I'm happy you called me out on it, townies should immediatly call out their suspicions so that if they die we can go back and see "hey he thought GM was scum and died, lets look at GM more closely" My only worry about you in power kav is that your 3rd party play in insane 2 was so good that Im afraid you could be scum and be getting away with it here. | ||
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Also Eiii slipped up and said there were three earlier too, meaning he is one of the Assassins ^_^ | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + Don't worry too much, this shouldn't be as active as insane, because, well, Insane was Insane. Hopefully people won't spam that much in this game, and I'd even like to put in a request that people try to limit their posting unless they have something relevant/meaningful to add to the conversation. People who just quote others, and say "I agree", or repeat the same things as others have already brought up, are perfect examples of "contributing without contributing", and that's a scum-tell. You know this is a great way to "contribute without contributing" you state a commonly known scum tell and say no spam please... well, duh. Still I can put this off as directing new players + Show Spoiler + Well this isn't technically night because no one takes actions. That said, there isn't much to talk about because we can't start mayoral campaigns. This means we're limited to mostly talking about general strategy and trying to establish a town policy, like no spam/try to contribute and add to the conversation, and other guidelines we'd like to put into place. Rehash of basic ideas, check! + Show Spoiler + Well if you're posting your own thoughts, then that's meaningful AND relevant, haha. But 9000 posts of cats in top hats and monocles wouldn't be. And saying "I agree" after every post isn't really contributing. If you want to agree with someone, at least add your own thought process as to why, and give some kind of explanation. That way you can look for mafia trying to make stuff up too. Spam is bad! No duh, but then again people were posting this kind of nonsense all night 0 so its not indicative + Show Spoiler + My thoughts on inactives: Don't lynch inactives, lynch lurkers. I guess it depends on your definition of inactive, but inactive for me, is someone who's not even playing the game, and has little to no posts. For me, the better choice is to pressure lurkers, who come in and post a couple times, then disappear. I think these are the people we should really be afraid of. They're a lot more dangerous, because by maintaining only a slight activity threshold to appease the town, they're easily able to hide amongst the masses. So personally, I'd rather lynch the guy who comes in twice a cycle to post a couple sentences, than Johnny-No-Posts who's not even playing the game. Lurkers want to hide behind a minimum of activity, inactives aren't even playing. (<--- My Take) I'm going to watch for people acting like that. well this *looks* like a contribution, but its a repost of an argument that town agrees on since time immemorial, its like posting "you should build drones" in response to "how do I macro better?" + Show Spoiler + Also, I think mafia would be more prone to trying to manipulate the town, whereas assassins would probably leave town be while focusing on finding the other assassins. So if you have two players kind've the same, but one is trying to manipulate the lynches and the other isn't, then you can differentiate them. an actual point! Yay! ok, nothing more to see here + Show Spoiler + As others have said, I think voting a black in is lose-lose. There's no guarantee he'll do anything to really help us, and then we lose our mayor/pardoner. something I agree with, fair enough Also, as far as medicing him goes, I think we can just drop the discussion on that until Day 2. Assassins can't do anything night one, so unless mafia wants to hit him, there's no need to waste a medic on him. If he still wants to negotiate for kills later, then we can do that when he's actually in a position to kill. However, just to add to that quickly, he's actually useless to town if he's not mayor/pardoner, because if he says he's hitting a town chosen target, mafia can just RB him, because he's outed himself publicly. So, we don't want him in office, and he can't help us out of office. again a really valid point, I have exactly one objection to it, the fact that after concluding that he is useless out of office he still talks about negotiating with the assassin, its an interesting contradiction So, overall, I don't think he can help town much, besides giving all the other assassins a non-town target for night 2. Right now, I'm most comfortable picking either GMarshal or Dr.H for mayor. I've gotten the strongest town reads from them, and they've both shown they're not afraid of trying to look for scum and lead town in the right direction. Yay! ^ My thoughts. + Show Spoiler + Don't hit the most inactive, that's stupid. The most inactive is likely not even playing the game, or they're just going to get Modkilled. If we want to do a policy lynch on activity, do it on a lurker. You call a lurker someone contributing without contributing, but with the amount of newer players in the game, that might not be the best deciding factor for day 1. I'd say lynch someone who was really active earlier in the game, like pregame, or night 0, and who has completely disappeared with only a minimum of posts by the end of day 1. This is a decent point, +1 townie point for it kind sir + Show Spoiler + How am I lurking? I'm just not rehashing the exact same points as everyone else over and over again. I was going to bring up some of the reasons I thought a black mayor wouldn't be optimal, but they were already raised by others, so instead of just repeating what's already been said three times I mentioned that protac isn't going to be useful to us at all if he doesn't get elected, so we shouldn't waste medics on him, just leave him for the other assassins to use hits on, keeping them off of town Alright this is a fair defense of my "lurking" accusation, however in his previous posts he made exactly one good point, that being about the assassin + Show Spoiler + And now that I think of it, there's other assassin, who may or may not be using their KP on the same night, on different or similar targets. So, there's no way to tell if mafia used all four hits or not. Meaning, it's easy for red to use one of their KPs as the "assassin" KP. I do believe this was already mentioned, neutral read on this post + Show Spoiler + The assassins are going to turn into the Item Game of Insane 2.... I was scum that game, so what I did, was try to keep everyone focused on the item game and away from actual analysis. I see the same thing starting to happen now, where town is going to latch onto the assassin game and get too distracted from everything else when it should be a non-issue... this is a very, very good point and one I agree with, +1 townie point for him Anyways, Why giving out both the names of the bodyguards is not a very good idea: At their core, the bodyguard and pardoner are supposed to be very powerful roles that we would like to get a hold of and use for the benefit of the town. When used correctly, these roles seem like they'd be more than capable of wreaking havoc on the mafia and bringing town victory. yeah, we know this, this is kind of filler If no mafia are elected into office, and they are not confident that they can sway the mayor easily, the best course of action for the reds is to kill the mayor/pardoner. In order to do so, they must first kill the two bodyguards. These bodyguards are unrevealed to the town and mafia, so first mafia need to find them as well. again, I think this is obvious Now, you, Pandain, want to reveal the bodyguards to everyone. Why? To ostensibly put trackers on them in order to catch any assassins/mafia who want to take a shot at the mayor. However, doing this is cringe-worthy to say the least. So why wouldn't it work out? Mafia have four KP, and there are supposedly two other assassins. This means, that if there are no medics, that mafia can kill the two bodyguards as well as the mayor and pardoner in one fell swoop. So, what we'd achieve, is the entire public office dead, traded at the cost of one mafia revealed. The only way to counteract that, would be if we now, IN ADDITION to our trackers, put medic protection on the bodyguards as well. So, you're asking us to focus all of our blue power on two people. But then we just get into a WIFOM spiral where we need to decide to protect either the bodyguards to the detriment of all other pro-town players or other players to the detriment of our bodyguards and mayor/pardoner. This is an actual good point +1 town point In my opinion, this becomes too convoluted to even work with, when compared to keeping the bodyguards known only to the mayor/pardoner. In other words, a bad idea. + Show Spoiler + Forgot assassin. I'd be willing to let him in as pardoner, but not mayor. Dr.H/protac interesting, Wiggles said "I thought a black mayor wouldn't be optimal" but now he is ok with a black pardoner... it is noteworthy, and if kav's theory that Pro is actualy red holds true then very, very revealing + Show Spoiler + No, but it looks highly suspicious that you don't post any thoughts/opinions (or anything at all really) since the game has started, and then come in and vote. What are your thoughts on the current situation? Why do you like GMarshal the best for mayor? Why don't you like the other candidates? same questions I ask, after I asked them... slightly scummy, but it could be down to simultaneous posts Conclusion: Lurking he adds a total of two new ideas by my count and his best post is the one focused on not exposing the bgs, I'm having a hard time labeling him as anything. Hence I suggest we all keep an eye on him and make him post more, I'm leaning slightly more towards scum than town atm, but I need more to analyze | ||
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On April 11 2011 08:58 DoctorHelvetica wrote: lol mr wiggles gives me the strongest town read Why? or is it your gut? | ||
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On April 11 2011 08:42 redFF wrote: Oh yeah that just happened throwing it out there right now I THINK GMARSHALL IS SCUM, as well as a number of his voters including M0nsterChef, Kevconsim and Original name, although everyone in my first gmarshall vote count post is officially fos by me I agree that all the random votes on me are fishy as hell, especially M0nster, they seem to me to be no effort votes. However concluding I'm scum from that is a bit of a stretch, no? I mean by all means analyze the hell out of those votes, but if I were mafia my team would be voting for me at the last minute, and only after I saw their post listing "10 reasons why GM is a good mayor", certainly not these throw away votes. Either way, please by all means analyze both my posts and the people voting for me, if nothing else you should realize I am playing to my usual town standards | ||
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On April 11 2011 09:03 redFF wrote: Care to tell me why you have so many votes by people providing little to no reasoning. If I knew I'd tell you, look at my last post though. | ||
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Don't make me actually go through and find your names, because I will... and you'll be sorry | ||
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On April 11 2011 09:41 Kenpachi wrote: + Show Spoiler + Hey guuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuys. dont ignore me and tell me how im lurking and shit .. So, how many Assassins are in the game? Maybe if Protact dies, 1 less assassin for the remaining to hunt. Its beneficial for townie in a game with less KP.. I think Kita makes a good point about Protact in the late game (not too sure if it was mentioned before but it just struck my mind) Im going to go with GM cause im a sheep This vote makes me unhappy, I dont want sheep in the town, you dont send out sheep to fight wolves, you send out other wolves. So please kenpachi, can you justify your vote in some way other that "I is sheep" ? Also while we are at it, do you have any major scum reads at this point? don't be a sheep, be a wolf | ||
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If he flips red you can feel free to scrutinize the hell out of me. If he flips green, well then I expect you to reconsider the intelligence of voting Protactinium for anything at all, although by then if the town has been foolish enough to vote him in it will be too late. | ||
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You seem to be getting a little desperate, afraid to die perhaps? At this point nothing you say should have any credibility since you now *have* to get elected to win and you are going to promise us the moon and the entire scum team if we just shield you. Your actually make Kav's theory that you and Dr.H might be scum together a little credible...not that I believe it, you are clearly the assassin and just desperate to make your gambit pay off. | ||
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Think about it, this is DAY 1 people are flip flopping right and left, we are surrounded by new players, they behave erratically so any information that lynching ON "reveals" about them is worthless . Lynching ON proves nothing either way, about me or any other players. If you people want to lynch him because you think he is a red, then thats fine, but lynching for information day 1, with no clearly drawn lines, and not much to go on is terrible, terrible play. Come on people, lets lynch scum, not townies! | ||
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Presenting GMarshal's Lists of Life Medic List - These are players who I see as essential to town success, players I think scum are likely to be trying to kill, since I doubt we have more than three medics I'll make the list contain 5 players, enough to avoid overlap, I also wont be including myself in the hope that I will have a couple of bodyguards covering for me, but otherwise throw me on please. chaoser- it could be that I am just partial to him, but this man has a head on his shoulders, if we can get him into the lategame I would be overjoyed DropBear- the guy is really new and seems to be trying, ideal target for an intelligent mafia to hit redFF- I know he is new, but he has been vocal and trying to get the town to do what he feels is right, scum might feel pressured by his being vocal so giving him a shield is a good idea Tackster- yes, I know he's been quiet, but he was really, really pro-town in Insane 2 starting day 2, so I'm hoping he is just having a delayed start this game Jackal- yes, jackal, he has great endgame play and people dont credit him enough for it, if I get to lylo I want him with me DT List -these are the people I find scummy enough to merit investigation, so please DTs send a check his way and see what they come up. Add me if I'm not elected, really all mayoral candidates need a check Coagulation-He is freaking unreadable, give the man a check Kavdragon- He has some really scummy posts, give him a looksee Dr.H- he is hard to read too as he is an usually aggressive player , likely to be the GF if scum though, so take your results with a grain of slat Pandian- "I'm a DT, Wait, no I'm not!" enough said aidnai- has been lurking I expected more from him, I would like to know his alignment Monster- nothing needs saying (i think he is a better target for trackers though) ON-nothing needs saying Trackers-trackers are special in the sense that they can track scum and not get a result if the scum isnt being sent out to preform the hit. Any inteligent mafia team is going to be sending out its less experienced, and thus less likely to be tracked players to preform the hits, so even if they are tracked they are less of a net loss for the scumteam. So this list contains mostly newbs and inactive players Lemonwalrus M0nsterChef Serejai Mig TranceStorm Eiii Monster Watchers- you guys are like medics who catch scum, so you need to threaten the scum by watching vocal and active players. Look at the medic list and use that | ||
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On April 12 2011 02:31 TranceStorm wrote: So GMarshal, according to your plan, if a detective/tracker/watcher found something suspicious, should they claim it in the thread or keep the information hidden? Since there are roleblockers a detective/tracker/watcher who reveals himself will become useless afterwards. It depends on the nature of the discovery and on the person who makes it, for example if a DT checks a newbie and discovers he is red it should be easy for him to push for the lynch without having to claim, but say someone like ON who already looks bad checks Kav, then if he wants to get him lynched he has no choice but to claim pretty much. Im willing and happy to trade a newb dt for a vet scum. Generally if you discover something press for the lynch and only claim as a last resort Trackers are going to have an interesting time, if they follow someone to a target and the target dies they dont know for sure what is going on. My suggestion is to hold on to that information and follow the target again, if people who he visits keep dying then you know he is scum. Again I'm rellying on the persons discretion and ability to notice patterns, a tracker is a harder role to use, but it provides more reliable information and can potentially unmask the godfather Watchers like trackers have a hard time if 7 people visit your target one night, and the target dies then claiming will probably expose a few blues, which would be bad, ideally the watcher watches a hit where only scum hits someone and then has to act like a dt, weight his possibilities of getting the target lynched without claiming. Again this is up to the players discretion, its a judgment call, he has to weigh whether he is outing any blues with his claim and whether its worth the sacrifice. As for the outrage at my medic list, I want to hear who you guys would rather have on it, thats half the point of my list. | ||
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On April 12 2011 02:36 kitaman27 wrote: Furthermore, your buddy Chaoser ran solely for pardoner too. Surely, you want him lynched too if your reasoning is consistent? HAHA medic protection? Either that post was not well thought out or you have an ulterior motive against me. Chaoser retracted his candidacy fairly early, and I've been getting a fairly steady town read off of him, you were also the first person to run for pardoner which suggests to me that you realized its power pretty much off the bat, both chaoser and I thought that what pardoning did was get the second highest vote count player lynched, as opposed to just ending the day. Also you neglect the rest of my post, what do you think about the medic and DT lists? | ||
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Onto what makes me suspicious of Kita, Dr.H calls him out on it quite early, kita makes some very general remarks on the mayorship "scum might run", "mayor is powerful", etc. He then starts tunneling on Dr.H insisting he is scum On April 11 2011 06:50 kitaman27 wrote: I'll happily argue anything you want for my candidacy. The fact that I'm not getting support shows that the mafia has no interest in backing me. Why would they want someone who is pro-town, when they could elect an assasson or someone like DrH who is always the center of attention. To summarize campaign for pardoner so far: -We should prioritize pro-towness as our biggest reason for voting for mayor. -I consider myself a pro-town player. With the exception of my single scum game, there have been more than a couple votes against me over a 10+ game period. When I'm town, I'm almost never in the lynch discussion and that's something you want with your elected officials. In addition, I'm not afraid to speak my mind and I've proved from past games that I'm not one to suddenly go inactive for days at a time. -I will argue to sway the lynch against innocents so a pardon is not even necessary. I will only use my pardon in obvious bandwagon situations. I do not believe the pardon should be used on a whim, as we valuable information to analyze. -I am completely against an assassin in office. The fact that everyone thinks we can manipulate an experienced veteran to do our bidding is not well thought out. He does not have the town's interests at mind and should not be elected. He is getting far too much support, which should concern everyone. -I've been backed by GMarshal as his running mate, the person who has received the most votes to this point. His point that he has no backing for mayor is... lacking... if he is in communication with a scumteam then he can happily make them wait to vote to emphasize this point. Point 2 is decent, but I generally frown on too much focus on the meta. Point three is laughable, all pro-town players will argue against lynching innocents, and here he still maintains he might use the pardon as long as its "no on a whim". His final two points are irrelevant. So basically he is running on a campaign made of fluff trying to grab a power role, and saying he might make use of it. If he had said he was going to categorically not use it I'd be happier, but it seems that as the thread progresses he is warming up to using it Every other one of his posts is against the assassin getting elected into office, which is curious to say the least. I agree with his stance on that but he seems deadset against it, dedicating almost all his effort to stopping his election Theres something off about kita and his attitude towards wanting to get the pardon worries me | ||
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On April 12 2011 03:06 DoctorHelvetica wrote: gmarshal what about pandain? he faked a DT roleclaim to get the role of pardoner. he announced in his post (on page 35) that he was running for pardoner, not mayor. why vig kitaman27 over him? is it because kitaman27 has been on the money with his logic and scumhunting ability or? Pandian should be vigied too, I assumed that was factored in everyones calculations by now, the only reason why we *might* keep him around is if his blue claim held true, I mentioned I subscribe to LaL, by my account pandian should die too | ||
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On April 12 2011 03:06 Jackal58 wrote: Not outrage at all. Actually I'm a bit flattered. But I got ask also - Why Tackster? He has been absent this entire day 1 so far. He may actually be in danger of being mod killed. I'd have to go back and verify that. Dunno if he's posted since the day post or not. But he certainly hasn't posted anything noteworthy yet. I don't get it GMan. And poor Tack might get a complex if he thinks I'm bagging on him. But I'm not. I just wanna know how you can say he's medic protection worthy when he hasn't even posted yet? And redFF. - I don't get comfy vibes from him man. I don't know what it is but he's not town like I'd want town to be. He's more like somebody else's mouthpiece. I'll give him time to grow on me but right now he makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up. I thought Tack played a really, really solid game in Insane 2 and I'm kind of banking on him doing what he did there and showing up with a massive pro-town post before the day ends. Is there anyone else you'd like to see included in the list? Anyone who you think is on one of the other lists who dosn't merit it? | ||
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On April 12 2011 03:20 Barundar wrote: My problem with it is you list a bunch of players, who are very unlikely to get targeted unless they spilled their role. Mafia hit priority is people who can sway town opinion against them first and foremost, and secondly blue sniping. Inactives aren't going to sway anyone. A bunch of the players you have on the list are not likely to get targeted by mafia, simply because they aren't that active. I do like that you want to use the list as a discussion point, it's exactly the kind of pro town play I would expect from you, but you didn't bring it up like the list was for discussion - I thought it was part of your campaign, and on that side of things I'm much more interested in hearing some names for your lynch if you get elected, than how you will lead the town after you have been elected. I do think it is a good idea to get some idea about who the candidates find are scummy and who they think are town, and medic/dt lists are a great tool for that. The complaint against my medic list is fair, I put those players on there that from my perspective looked like town and thus were likely to be targeted by scum. The only exception is Tack (See my reply to Jackal). The issue with many of the players who currently hold "town influence" is that they could easily be scum, thats why they are on my DT list. I was considering including some of them on both lists, but I thought this would generate more discussion. So, who would you place on the medic list? and why? | ||
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On April 12 2011 03:28 Jackal58 wrote: I'll be honest with ya man. This is day 1. If you want me to put together a list of who I would like to see at endgame I can do that. Unfortunately probably half of them will be scum. You really called it though. I'm much better at this game after day 2 or 3 than I am at the beginning. But I just don't understand how you can say "Tack played well last game so I hope he does again this game" I agree 100% with you that he played well. Hell I should be more aware of that than anybody. I got him lynched. But that doesn't mean he's town in this game. I have seen nothing from him to evaluate or analyze. Wanting him to have medic protection with the info you have either means you're naive or you know his alignment. And there is only one way you could know his alignment. I was actually kind of hoping that his name coming up would make him post, but you are right, its a really basless call if you only analyze the stuff going on in this game and don't look at the meta. I would remove him, but if I didn't make mildly controversial calls, well then there wouldn't be much to discuss no would there? ^_^ | ||
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On April 12 2011 04:00 redFF wrote: Oh my bad. You sir, have you seen my list? What do you think of it? Do you believe you merit a medic? Who is on the DT list who needs not be there? And who isn't that should? | ||
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And now I put out a list in an attempt to foster discussion and you just ignore it because you are hurt that I think your play is off also This is 100% anti-town. If you want to remove the pardoner's power, have him pardon your first lynch. Your method reduces the number of people alive, regardless of whether or not you think he is scum. you don't say? I always assumed that lynching someone kept them around, isn't the goal of lynching mafia to reduce the number of them that are alive? Do you prefer that if elected I dont lynch anyone and instead hold hands with the electorate and sing kumbayah while the mafia team shoots at us? | ||
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On April 12 2011 06:31 Barundar wrote: Instead of fear mongering, why don't you tell us why you think either of them is scum? My preference is town mayor and Protac pardoner, but I don't want to plant my vote on a third party in case something crazy happens while I sleep. If kita was actually running for mayor he would be my pick, since unlike GM I find Kita has actively been trying to push inactives and question people. I have to vote before I go to bed, so GM I'd like to hear who you anticipate on lynching if you get voted in. DrH is still (probably) ON? I'm not 100% sure yet but probably one of these inactive people who are posting without contributing, someone like Serejai who's only post was a troll post with no content or AirbladeOrange who so far has failed to actually contribute. Kita, I retract my accusation of you, it was kind of a dick move on my part but I wanted to see how you reacted to some pressure, since I felt that you hadn't been subjected to any real scrutiny. Sorry if I made you angry, but I had to see how you reacted to something like my attack. I do think you are acting pro town, and I don't actually want a vigi to hit you, but I felt that I was being passive with my scum hunting and wanted to see your reaction. Once again sorry, but if anything your defense has solidified your towniness in my eyes. I still want a vigi to shoot Pandain though ^_^ | ||
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On April 12 2011 06:42 Robellicose wrote: There are no town PM circles, and the mayor and pardoner learn the identities of the bodyguards, so if mafia gains one position, they can wipe out the other fairly quickly. Add on the voting capability of the mayor and the one-time lynchblock (which would have to be lategame only for mafia as we'd probably lynch the pardoner pretty quick afterwards) and it's pretty clear that the mafia would want to run at least one campaign for mayor. If I had to say which candidate I think is the most scummy, I'd call Kav. Maybe. It's more of a 'least-obviously-town' choice rather than a pro-mafia choice. GMarshal I think it's silly to lynch the pardoner - If we want rid of the role completely, try and vote a green in and get him to pardon one of the early lynches (perhaps the first one where we aren't sure of our lynch victim, probably the day 1 lynch). This gets rid of the pardon whilst still protecting a probable green. If mafia obtain one of the positions, and don't block the lynch, then we can lynch on the next turn in the knowledge that we're definitely lynching scum that time. Please do not consider lynching the pardoner purely to get rid of the pardon. There is no reason to. I think this is great advice. Blues should listen to this. Especially if you aren't hugely experienced at Mafia - I'm certainly not. What I would like to ask the more experienced TL Mafia members - In previous IRC games I've played, we had an IRC channel (I assume to all intents and purposes a pm circle is the same) that the mayor could invite people to and as a result the pooling of blue info was possible with only a small chance (mayor inviting a mafia) of the mafia finding out who the blues were. This is going to sound mafia as all hell, but what are the usual ways of blues sharing info without letting mafia know who the blues are? Is it solid analysis from town? Does one detective post his info like mad hoping a medic is around? If you don't want to share these tips, could you recommend a mafia game on TL that also did not have a town pm circle of any kind so I could read up on how this information can be shared? As for lynching the pardoner, I said it depends on who gets elected, but I was only toying with the idea anyway, I think I may have overreacted to the threat that the pardoner presents, although it is a pretty large one. As for information sharing I said in a previous post it depends on who the actual blue is, one method is for the dt to breadcrumb his results by claiming that he he feels "really good" about players who are town and "really bad" about players who are scum in an analysis, then when the DT dies the town can go back and look at who he had good and bad feelings about. Claiming with role-blockers around is a poor idea, it should only be done if the blue has a red he cannot get lynched otherwise. | ||
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On April 12 2011 07:16 tnkted wrote: GM I was ok with your earlier ideas but your later ones are extremely scummy. 1. Lynching the pardoner? Are you serious? You backed off it quickly but I don't know how you could ever possibly think that removing half of the town's 'safe from night kill' roles would ever be a good idea. 2. Posting a list of what the blues should be doing? Extremely stupid, tells the mafia who they should avoid. Lists like that are only useful when we're dealing with a crowd half this size. If you were mafia that list would help you by getting all of the blues to focus their powers in one area, which you can easily avoid. Anyone you leave off the list is guarrenteed to be killable! 3. Calling vig hits on pandain? He's probably a blue that was stupid enough to announce himself in front of everybody, hes done nothing but lurk since then. Anybody in this thread with half a brain is aware of his role now, why could you possibly want to kill him? If you were mafia calling a vig hit on pandain would be the smartest thing you could do, since he would be saving you a hit at night. I'm not saying you're town, but the conspiracy theorist part of my brain is going nuts with thoughts about how you and protract are mafia, and protract is getting bussed to get you into the mayors position. TLDR; GMs ideas are horrible and I can't support his campaign. I withdraw my candidacy, my vote right now is more important than providing a valuable alternative. I can't believe I'm typing this. ##vote DrH Also everybody, about Serejai: I play SC2 with him sometimes and I am/was part of the TL minecraft server, and Serejai is the biggest troll I've ever seen. He was fucking with you. I don't know what hes doing this game but hes hard to read. As he posts more I'll be happy to translate into english for you. :D Did you miss the part about the blue list being to provide a focus for discussion? If mafia sees the list and decide not to hit player because they are on the medic list then all the better for us, if we had 2 medics then I just made the mafia avoid 4 players, my updated list come nightfall will make it so that there are about 6 players in the medic protect list, if the mafia avoid them then all the better for us, also consider the fact that a medic seeing that list has no obligation to follow it,a s a matter of fact mafia not only has to ignore the "protected" targets but also has to worry about medics who might not be following my lead. Blue direction lists are all things considered a good thing. As for pandian refer to my policy, LaL, now that he has made a claim and retracted it nothing pandian says can be trusted, what if two days from now he comes out and says, "lol, jk I am a DT and I checked Qatol and he is scum" would you believe a word of it? I know I wouldn't, hell it would probably cause enough chaos to force us to lynch him. As I said with the pardoner, it was me being a little bit too rash, but the pardoner is *still* extremely anti town and I'm unhappy that its going to be in anyone's hands at all. | ||
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On April 12 2011 07:25 tnkted wrote: Then make the pardoner save your first lynch. Its been suggested several times before. It would solve your problem entirely and would only cost us a lynch that is probably going to be town anyway. I have to go to class, i'll respond ot other points when i get back. And then we waste a lynch the only town kp, I think its a stupid idea to pardon the first lynch, there's no reason to assume it *won't* hit scum, especially if its aimed by a town player who is gunning for an area with a high concentration of mafia (read: the lurkers) (and yes it *is* an assumption that some mafia will be lurking, but a fair one, no?) Again every lynch gives us information, we shouldn't lynch exclusively for it, but we should not stop from lynching out of fear. | ||
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Thats what, two replacements thus far? This bodes ill for the town. | ||
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On April 12 2011 07:39 aidnai wrote: GM, what makes you say tackster was town? Good on you for quitting tackster. On to a healthier, nicer smelling future! Hopefully you'll find someone that can replace me rather than lose a green altogther... He said he was green in his goodbye post. | ||
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On April 12 2011 08:08 Serejai wrote: ...what? I'm sorry I'm still trying to learn how to play this game but... what does skin color have to do with anything. That's just being racist =/ I am flabbergasted by the magnitude of your contribution, you sir have proven to be a real asset to the town. Guys, I think I found my lynch if I'm elected mayor! [x] Few posts [x] no contribution [x] detrimental to town | ||
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On April 12 2011 08:15 kevconsim wrote: Why would you kill him. What if he is a medic or a dt? Because he is being a fucking moron and acting anti-town. Useless spam posts pleading ignorance and trying to be "funny" are not helping the town find scum, or really do anything else, in my opinion he is either scum or a bored townie that it trolling, either way he's better dead than alive. | ||
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On April 12 2011 08:17 DoctorHelvetica wrote: another thing i will do as mayor i will never kill/vote for someone i believe to be town/assassin aligned just because they are "bad" I'm not voting for him because he is "bad" Im voting for him because he is anti-town and not even trying to hide it. Find me a single helpful post of his, there are none. He isn't even trying and is distracting the town. | ||
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On April 12 2011 08:20 kevconsim wrote: But now we know that if he doesnt die he could be mafia. -.- See, he singlehandedly created a circle of wifom that is distracting the town. Tell me how this is a pro-town or even neutral play at all | ||
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On April 12 2011 08:21 DoctorHelvetica wrote: WIFOM not even worth considering But do you believe that he is mafia? I don't so I have bigger fish to fry. Scum like kavdragon or barundar for instance I think I'm 60% certain he is mafia, I don't think any town player in his right mind would play like that. Kav has been posting large contentless posts I grant you that, but I'm not sure he is scum, again I'll be interested to see his flip, but I like lynching the troll better. Also this is the first time I've seen you mention Barundar, whats your case against him if you dont mind explaining? | ||
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On April 12 2011 08:28 Eiii wrote: I don't like this. This guy has two posts that have zero content and no clear intentions, and you somehow pull '60% mafia' out of that? While kav has a million posts with zero content that are obviously trying to look protown and you can't even pull a percentage out of your ass for him? Its the "Zero content and no clear intentions" that worries me about him, all the other people with 2-3 posts at least *tired* to look pro-town. These dont, and I see it as a player trying to disguise his alignment by not saying anything. 60% was frankly pulled out of my ass, I still see him as anti-town but I won't argue it since its not like I can write a PbP on him to prove anything. | ||
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On April 12 2011 08:34 redFF wrote: Yes let's keep shifting attention to the guy with 2 troll posts instead of contributing/discussing something worthwhile. Fine, what do you want to discuss kind sir? I posted a list yet it was apparently not worth discussing. I tried to make arguments and pressure, but that too was deemed "bad". So tell me, what do you want to talk about? I'm game to discuss anything. | ||
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On April 12 2011 08:37 redFF wrote: Well, a name on who you are lynching day 1 would be nice, which lurker/inactive? I'm thinking our troll here might be a good lynch, other than him ON and Monster seem to have drawn enough attention as lurkers to make me suspect them, especially the Monster ninja vote. It won't be someone who is going to be modkilled though, I'll leave them to die by the banhammer | ||
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On April 12 2011 08:49 jaminz wrote: ##Vote Doctor Helevetica who are you and why are you voting Dr.H RedFF, this must mean Dr.H is scum right? I mean its an unjustified vote! | ||
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On April 12 2011 08:52 DoctorHelvetica wrote: HEY GMARSHAL I LIKE YOUR EARLIER PLAN OF LYNCHING THE PARDONER ASAP WHAT DO U THINK If it helps town go for it, I dont fear death, as long as its in the benefit of the town. Only scum are afraid to die. I don't fear death, I fear a fruitless death. | ||
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On April 12 2011 07:32 Rean wrote: Placeholder vote on DrH On April 11 2011 17:26 The_Roist wrote: As for my vote, I feel DoctorHelvetica has the towniest position regarding our claimed ninja and how best to use him in the towns' favor. ## vote DoctorHelvetica along with that entirely unjustified vote, truly these are masterpieces of reason and logic. My question stands FF, why were votes like this suspicious for me, and not suspicious for Dr.H... | ||
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On March 26 2011 03:53 BrownBear wrote: BODYGUARD: You are one of two random townies that will be selected night 1 to become Bodyguards. As long as you are alive, neither the Mayor nor the Pardoner can be targeted by night actions of any kind. You have no special powers other than that. Both the Mayor and the Pardoner know who you are, as you are protecting them. @Darth Also where the hell have you been? You have like 3 posts in the thread. | ||
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Probably AO though, on my gut, as some player around here are so fond of saying | ||
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On April 12 2011 09:49 Kavdragon wrote: I'd lynch OriginalName over Airblade. Day one reads are hard, so lynching the person who is less active is a good idea. My take, anyways. There are still three hours left, so theres plenty of time for one of them to come in here with a groundbreaking and epic post that reverses my stance on one of them. I'm leaning Airblade, but I'm still thinking it over, again 3 hours is plenty of time. | ||
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On April 12 2011 10:26 tnkted wrote: I'm just reading through, but it looks like everyone else missed this. Wtf? Why are you in a chat room with meapak and GGQ? I thought only mafia had circles. FOS Meapak GGQ and Rean tlmafia IRC? you know our hangout for all of tl mafia? #TLMafia IRC on quakenet. jump in, its where we banter uselessly while we wait for dayposts to come up and such ^_^ | ||
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=160747¤tpage=2#28 I resisted it right after insane 2 was over since the dead had so much fun in IRC /end of derailment | ||
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/end sarcasm | ||
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##Unvote Kita ##Vote GM | ||
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On April 12 2011 11:42 Kavdragon wrote: I will say it again. DR.H's play has been detrimental to the town. He is Scum. DR.H said he would only run for mayor if he was mafia. He is Scum. DR.H said that the mayor was a stupid role, and he wished it wasn't here. He is scum. And this: The mafia has done a wonderful job of manipulating town. First, take out one of the better candidates for mayor my arguing him into the ground, and calling him scum. Next stomp on townies so they just sheep to someone who isn't Dr.H. Next, point out how everyone is sheeping GMarshal, and get everyone to vote Dr.H. Last, lynch the guy who calls Dr.H scum. Since it seems likely Doc is going to take the election, who are your main scumreads? Doc obviously, but who else? I want to be able to quote the hell out of you if you flip green. | ||
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On April 12 2011 12:32 Conversion wrote: Didn't most town want proct as pardoner? Unvoted and voted proct. hoping for some kind of vote switch before day ends... If most of the town wants the assassin as pardoner then they really deserve to lose. | ||
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On April 12 2011 12:39 GGQ wrote: Now that you know how weak (and even anti-town) the pardoner role is, why do you think that it's a bad deal for town to trade it for two kills and a role check? BECAUSE ITS ANTI TOWN if we are going to lynch the last mafia then Protac *has* to use it to by himslef an extra day to hunt out the last assassin If we are in a position to win with a lynch he has to disrupt us so he can still win, *and* we can't afford to lynch him for it | ||
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On April 12 2011 12:48 kitaman27 wrote: GMarshal, you should change your lynch candidate to the most scummy person that votes for Protactinium within the next hour. Next 11 minutes you mean? | ||
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On April 12 2011 12:50 GGQ wrote: If it's the last mafia, then we'll just lynch the last mafia with the next lynch? Pardoner can only pardon one lynch. Unless it's lylo, which is impossible because that would mean that protact is still around, which would mean that there's at least one bodyguard around, plus at least one more assassin, plus the mayor, etc. What situation can you imagine where Protact using the pardon spells dire doom for town? I;m not going to bother theorizing, he is *not* town, and not pro-town and by giving him *anything* we really hurt the town. This has been argued to death, despite his claims he is not going to help town, like all of us he is in this to win it and I AM NOT going to allow the town to fuck itself over day one if I can possibly avoid it. Not on my watch. | ||
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On April 12 2011 12:53 kitaman27 wrote: Hey look, the Protact supporters have come out of hiding. Your glorious leader has just returned in time. Kita I think your supporters have to move their votes to me to make sure that the assassin dosn't get into the town elected roles. | ||
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I am as always your immortal servant town, so I wont allow you to fuck up! | ||
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On April 12 2011 12:56 chaoser wrote: GM, respond to my post. When would it happen that proct being pardoner, would turn our game from winning to losing? I dont know for sure, it would be a weird situation for sure, however its not impossible, and as policy we don't give ourselves the chance to lose stupidly. Its like giving coag a bomb, a poor idea. Let me ask you a question, what incentive does the assassin have to actually help town once elected? what is he afraid of, us lynching him? He knows we wont waste a lynch like that. So if you want him to have free reign then sure elect him, otherwise fight for the town, damnit. | ||
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On April 12 2011 13:00 Conversion wrote: Why would mafia bandwagon a nonscum, or assassin, to pardoner? Someone explain this to me? Either because of the chaos it will cause (and there will be people scrutinizing him every minute of the day, and making accusations of him being scum) , or because he isn't an assassin at all, just a really, really ballsy mafia | ||
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On April 12 2011 13:06 chaoser wrote: Assassin has tons of incentive: 1) Not getting his ass lynched (he can't pardon himself) cause he didn't help town Why would we not waste a lynch like that? It's not a wasted lynch. It's a game ending lynch to him. He doesn't want to lose obviously. It's not like his win condition is in direct opposition to ours. It's more like it's in parallel and maybe it like cross ours. I really don't think it will. I'd rather have someone I'm sure is black in office than this WIFOM tip toeing who you be red/green situation. Look how confused town is right now with all it's switch voting. 2) He helps us, we help him. If our DTs find an assassin, we can tell him when and where we want. That's a bargaining chip WE have. Why would he throw that service out the window? You went from no to assassin to maybe to vehemently no again. Can I ask why? I understood the transition for the first switch but what's the transition for the second switch? the first transition was because I did what I do every game and doubted myself, then I realized that if I want to play pro-town I can be feather in the wind and I have to make my own stances, thats also the reason for the blue list and my accusations of kita. in response to 1 and 2 1.) It absolutely is a wasted lynch, any easy lynch or a lynch that dosn't get scum is a wasted lynch. Mislynching is bad, but it gives information if town decided to hang protac it would be a wagon with no information, it would be just as bad as him getting off a pardon 2.) therefore we dont have a bargaining chip, if we protect him he is *not* obligated to help us, in fact I' m sure he'll come up with plenty of reasons why who he thinks are assassins are scum to get us to lynch them, and the town being mindless sheep probably will. | ||
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On April 12 2011 13:16 Kenpachi wrote: mmm looks like something isnt going right. my vote on the wrong guy? I dont think so, but I am partial to myself since I know my alignment, if you want theres a nice third party assassin that dosn't share our objectives who is just drooling over your vote as his life depends on it. | ||
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On April 12 2011 13:19 Mr. Wiggles wrote: These two posts disturb me. The first one, says "Hey guys, switch votes to me so I can be mayor!", and the second is you trying to reaffirm your towniness. Honestly, these rub me the wrong way, and they look like you're trying to make some last bid to get into first place and secure the mayorship. It doesn't look like a town move, but more like scum trying to fear monger. I'm not sure how comfortable I am with you in office now. I dont care if you make me mayor, I prefer it ofcourse, what I dont want is an assassin in office, any assassin, someone who is confimed to be non-town, if you want to swap your vote to Dr.H do so with my blessing. But keep the elected roles in the hands of the town (no, I dont know Dr.H is town, but some people seem to have a town read on him, so I'll roll with it) | ||
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On April 12 2011 13:21 chaoser wrote: See there it is again. You've NEVER antagonized and vilified someone like that before. Your posts are usually just straight talk express. This game I've been getting weird vibes. Hope you ain't pulling a McCain. You are right, sorry I am losing my temper and I should control myself better, this is the type of posts I told myself I wouldn't make, ever. It just angers me that you can't seem to see why protac is a bad choice, it just makes no sense. Apolgies for the anger I am radiating, I'll control myself from here on out. If people want to vote for Pro then they should feel free to, both our sides have been stated and saying anymore is a waste ob breath. Once again sorry if I vilified or slandered anyone, I'm not trying to ruin the town environment that I agreed with kav we should have. | ||
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On April 12 2011 13:32 chaoser wrote: GM, who are you lynching again if you're elected mayor? Not ON but airbladeorange? I'll let you choose, which one do you think is a better lynch? AO's posts are coming off as super scummy to me, but I have a personal bias towards ON as I liked him when we were a scumteam in factory mafia, and I think he is playing his usual poor town game. | ||
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He just strikes me as scum. Sorry for not actually writing it PbP, no time | ||
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On April 12 2011 13:57 DoctorHelvetica wrote: gmarshal you admit you're bad at scumhunting so can you trust me and just lynch kavdragon or at least barundar Sticking to my guns, AO is scum and I will kill him, I thought you wanted an independent mayor, Dr.H? | ||
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Dr.H won, right? At least I kept the assassin out of office and made sure the pardoner wasn't in the hands of scum. I'll consider that a victory. | ||
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On April 12 2011 14:04 Latrommi wrote: Ok, there's suspicion. I get it. I had problems with getting the mafia forum's access, but got through with it enough to read a few pages before voting. ... ... ... ... I am speechless, why did you vote for me? having read only a few pages? Thats irresponsible! You should have put your vote on someone with no chance in order to abstain. You realize how terribly bad this makes you look? | ||
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/sigh see you all tomorrow | ||
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On April 12 2011 16:06 bumatlarge wrote: GMarshal Analysis I'm going to focus on how GM goes about the first day, as I feel that it's the clearest indication of his play and his meta. GM immediately establishes himself as a policy person, which is understandable. I can't really consider this post scummy alone. He talks about relevant things early in the game, but it's way too forced. Paragraphs to explain simple ideas. Pardoners are strong but they can be pro-town, being able to do exactly what their role entails. Bam first paragraph done. Lurkers are the best lynch. Last part is so WIFOMy. I find if you come across something that leads to WIFOM, the best course of action is describe the situation and how it leads to WIFOM, and then drop it until it rears its ugly head in the game. Gmarshal is setting it in stone. No good. How is anything I said there untrue again? yes there is a certain level of wifom involved if a mafia gets elected, however I think its safe to say that if the BG's died night one there would be suspicion cast on everyone elected, is that unreasonable? Also, yes I agree, I do establish myself as a policy person, because I realize that town keeps losing because it allows people to get away with stuff it shouldn't I died in insane night 1, i thought the game started 24 hours earlier than it did, I was ready to start, yes, yes I was frustrated, problem? Ha, mock frustration, this one line is worse then everything he said before. Kav is already on board. In fact let me show you what GM's post should have been. Straightforward. Even though I disagree with things, this is so easy to respond to. I think we should lynch a lurker rather then an inactive Kav. I see your point on the pardoner Kav. DONE AND DONE. You really lynched Kav? But let me continue, Gmarshal could have gotten unlucky, he didn't know how to put those words out properly. It reminds me of when I would get assigned a 500-word-essay in elementary school, and I'd do my best to say as much as possible while repeating the same idea different ways. If anyone does not see the evidence here, please inform me so I can clarify. I will do it with everyone of GM's posts if I have to. Because there was sooo much to talk about night 0, you are right the post says nothing truly new, but kav wanted night 0 discussion, and I saw no reason to avoid it simply because it was obvious to me, a newer player might not see it as clearly Seeing these posts as well does not win me over in the "Gm is obvious town" department. It seems fairly clear that GM is well aware of what he is doing. I fail to see your point here, I made a relevant post, this makes me scum how? I don't mean to divert, but are you serious Dr.H? You've defintely been reading Kav's posts, but I find it hard to believe you missed GM's. Massive FoS Doctor Mayor. This only helps my case. recall what I said about how town should approach WIFOM. Textbook. Dr.h asked a stupid question, I awnsered, what did you want me to reply to him? "uh... magic?" Running For Mayor I'm not going to be accusing anyone based on the fact that they ran for mayor. I did that before when I was scum. Easiest mislynch ever. But of course I will focus on how they did it! Let's rip this to pieces. Cute, if you ended your campaign there, I would have dropped my entire argument. Seriously, but you didn't. You need to TRY to be mayor, but you don't need to be mayor. Let's see why that matters. Once again I applaud you, correct I didn't need to be mayor, but why not? I'm confident I can do a better job than the people who ran, and frankly I'm not impressed with the results either way, this way at least I ensured I would deny the role to mafia Hardly a fair argument GM, your only mafia play was in Death Factory, which is not right to include, no offense to Ace. And two minimafia games, if you want to do research, both of which I lurked through btw Not that I disagree, but you've stated your point from #1 on how you're always town, and when you are mafia, you sit there quiet and wait for town to lynch you. I don't see much difference here, because every townie should be doing this anyway, but you need to remind us of it. Very well, I am reminded of a townie's purpose. no, the point of this is to remind you that when I'm town I dont pull a Pandian and roleclaim for shits and giggles, or just lurk stupidly, I actualy try, much like I am doing now . Because of what we concluded from points 1 and 2! Basic assumptions that are assumed. Oh dear that sentence was useless, hope no one notices that the previous sentence was useless like this useless sentence. Sorry, I like verbose sentences, but I've always liked verbose sentences feel free to read my other games for evidence. And honestly what do you want me to say about the fact that I'm going to lynch a lurker other than I know I'm going to choose it and that scum won't be influencing my decision? I fail to see how any of this makes me scum Leave this point out next time it overlaps with #3. Fair enough You've made your Policy policy apparent, you're just explaining what it is to have a policy. GMarshal is encouraging not flaming! Scum! This should have been your first post in the game. Make sure you do that next time GM, so you can beat everyone to that particular punchline, so it actually looks like you are town. Right, becuase me trying to give blues direction and give a point for discussion is *also* a clear sign of scum, however did I miss this. Hey, Dr.H the posts where you do this exact same thing must also make you scum! Seriously, you are right, the advice is kind of generic, but we were less than an hour into the game, I promised I would provide lists later, and I did Awful policy. Vets have already explained how wrong LaL is, and I should know considering I am going to host a game named after it. LaL is awesome, or at least viging liars, liars cannot be trusted, see the Pandian fake claim later on. It's so blatant, at least someone call GM out on repeating what not only everyone else has said, but what he has said. Maybe they have already? Guess I should finish the thread... sorry, you are right, I didn't realize 1 and 9 overlapped, next time I'll proofread better :/ leave out 1-8 and use this as your campaign next time. Ok, lets compare this to Kav the townie! Completely different approach from usual Kav. But what is hilarious is he has said everything GM stated and more. I almost can't stop myself on droning on about Kav being lynched. In fact, I couldn't. I DIDNT EVEN KNOW MY ALIGNMENT YET. God people. Gm is scum. Dr.H's play SO FAR has been completely unimpressive and damning for both GM and dr.H. I may have confused chaoser and Dr.H before, I need to go back and see what I read, because Chaoser was switching his In-thread vote (not the on in the vote thread) and it seemed too off-key for me, but Dr.H is so much more apparent. my commentary in bold I can't wait till you reach last night Bum, where I was drunk off my ass and raging at the town for trying to vote in an assassin (apologies to anyone who I might have offended by the way, theres a reason I don't usually post and drink) | ||
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Medics Jackal- I want him lategame Chaoser- he is thinking, even if he is wrong about me, I want a wolf not a sheep Bum- same as chaoser tnkted- looked pro-town to me kitaman27- he argued against the assassin and seemed generaly helpful to the town, protect the man DTs bum- as much as I like him he's come in throwing alot of accusations, I'd like for someone to know his alignment ON- we could just lynch him, but if he isn't scum I dont want to waste a lynch redFF- Kav suspected him, he needs a check Barundar- Dr.H top suspect, a check is called for Conversion- duh Lattomi- last minute vote snipe and lurker, going to consider lynching as well Trackers jaminz Milkyst MetalFace M0nsterChef AirbladeOrange Mig | ||
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On April 12 2011 18:12 bumatlarge wrote: Oh sweet, looks like GM is dead. Cool, then I can give some blue advice since what I've seen so far has been woefully inadequate. Medics: Who you think will be hit. No further discussion. Tracker: DR. H! Since vigs and assasins can't hit tonight, this is an obvious choice. Even if you disagree with Kav and I, you can't really argue that this won't produce results. Watcher: This role is so strong, especially night 1. Act like a medic, sting like a DT. DT: Obv scummy people, ignore that there is a GF imo. Just keep it to yourself if you visit town. Just be smart. Bum will help you the rest of the way. Also remember you accused me of posting generic advice? I at least got it first. Also Dr.H cannot be tracked as he is immune to *all* night actions, that includes tracking. Instead of this generic advice I'd like to see a list of who exactly you think needs protection and who needs dt checks, as well as who needs to be tracked or watched, I'm curious to see where if anywhere our lists overlap | ||
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I agree that bum is making some solid points and actualy hunting scum, which is what we need. I think his focus might be missplaced, but if it gets discussion going I'm willing to weather any and all accussations. Because I know its coming, yes I did contradict myself a lot, I do that often, I doubt myself a lot, its something I'm working on fixing in my play. however you'll notice that when I decide to take a stance I stand firm, like my conviction that AO is scum, I still think he is. However if you guys want to lynch me I'll understand, my play hasn't been stellar and my binge of posting while drunk and angry isn't helping matters. Oh, and chaoser I went for AO because I felt his posts were legitimately scummy as opposed to ON's which felt more like a bored townie to me. However if you feel strongly that ON is scum (and your case against him looks good) then I am willing to go along with it. | ||
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On April 13 2011 01:47 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I felt the need to. This isn't really going to affect who the scum hit, they can't hit me, they can't do anything to me, and it shouldn't really alter their opinions on anyone else. If Bumatlarge is spot on with his analysis, they're wary of him regardless of whether or not I say he's great. I think this will be pretty much non-effectual. I'll never make a lynch case/scum case at night though. Fair enough, I was just wondering. | ||
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I'd like to see some opinions on things, some accusations, something! Who do people think are the best DT targets, who do they think medics should protect? Does anyone find my list entirely disagreeable? | ||
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On April 13 2011 08:03 bumatlarge wrote: + Show Spoiler + On April 13 2011 07:08 Rean wrote: What he's saying is that lynching ON might be a gamble, but it's one with a high reward. Either we kill him, he flips red and we've got a few red buddies to point out, or he flips green and then people like RedFF will start to be very red. A risk that might just be worth taking, unless there's another good option. How about we lynch for information and lynch scum? That's a good option. I was going to respond to GMarshal's defense, but he hardly refers to my main point that his posts on content-less scum posts. Well it's fairly obvious that I am town who knows how to play, so my blue advice is good. I missed the mayor pardoner immunity which makes me sad. I was mainly pointing trackers at Dr.H anyway, but since that is ruled out, everyone can disregard the blue advice. Icing on the cake. I make good points. Naturally, because you know I am right. You were tunneling Kav and ignoring GMarshal. Also very apparent, that seemed like it was part of the plan. I accept your apology but if you have 1) Shitty town play and 2) great scum play all rolled up into one, you have yourself a great lynch. The next two paragraphs aren't making me sympathetic. Your drawing modern art on a chalkboard while I'm playing connect the dots. And thank you again for the compliments, I'll make sure to give you more. I'm actually not one for bashing aggressive play, but yours was pointlessly aggressive. I recall a response to Kav where you said that you were going to drop the charade of constant aggression. I had to pause for a moment and see if that was a legitimate excuse. I think you would have to be attempting to pressure people to get an alignment read. Except you ignored GM at that time, the number 1 offender. I'll try to get a Dr.H analysis up. In the mean time, read every post Kav has made when the the lynch on him was going to be apparent. It has great stuff on Dr. H in there. Kav's lynch was not a mistake, it was a desperate move. And if GM doesn't flip scum, you have nothing to worry about right DH? Right?.... Ok, I post large posts that are not always content-full, but I *am* trying to contribute and help. I provided a blue list during the day to foster discussion, it was ignored, I pressured kita to see how he would responds, people got pissed at me for it, I tried to keep the assassin out of office, that was apparently anti-town (although I stand by it btw). It seems like theres nothing I can do that won't have you people yelling scum. Also, guess who else posted large posts that were even emptier than mine? Kavdragon. Sensuously lynching me is stupid, we are already down one active townie, are we just going to lynch them all until we reach the endgame with Serejai, M0nsterchef and Mig? Because thats going to be a very dull endgame, where lynching is going to be a guess. Still if your buddy is Dr.H this a great plan, link us through really tentative evidence and when I flip green be like "oops, I guess he wasn't scum, guess that means Dr.H is town". Proceed to lead the town with some more great "analysis" and get the rest of the vocal players killed. Proceed to lead the remaining players in circles. You know what, I want a DT check on this guy. I thoughts his motives were pure because he was trying, but now I think there could be something more sinister here. | ||
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On April 13 2011 08:39 bumatlarge wrote: If you really think Kav's posts were empty compared to yours, you need to read them again. I read Kav's posts and yours in my first read through, and the difference was apparent. Kav wasn't posting for his benefit. He was genuinely unconcerned of convincing people of his alignment, it would be nice, but he was focused on town cohesion, and he got it. Your agenda was yourself. Proving yourself and the newer townies, and it worked to an extent. It was a shame I was not here earlier. If you think Dr. H is my scumbuddy, anaylize myself and analyze Dr. H. You're so desperate that you just want to throw things around hoping it doesn't hit you in the back of the head. I don't need a DT check on you, I know you are scum. Dr. H has given HEAPS on posts that link you to him, and the only thing you have is my threat to him. Ok, I'm not starting a shitstorm over this, I've done nothing but try to be protown all game long, foster discussion and make people talk, what I'm getting here are baseless accusations of "not posting enough content" and "trying too hard to get elected". Congrats, you caught up to my meta, I post mountains and mountains of posts, some of them end up not having very much content, I assure you its not intentional, but I post whatever I'm thinking, if its stupid or wifom then I'm fine with people calling out on it, but it isn't anti-town, and if you think its a cause for a lynch well then, see if you can get the town to agree to it. Mind you these are the same people who put eight votes on an assassin for mayor, so I wouldn't be surprised if they went for my neck. Anyway, I'll answer any new accusations, I covered your points thus far and apparently me answering your accusations would also be " contentless posting" or "trying to hard" Do answer me one question though, why, when I was in the lead to win the elections did I post a blue list and pressure Kita? it actually made voters switch off me, and I took all kinds of hell for it. | ||
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Why? It ensures everyone has a clear view on my stances... and despite the accusations of "contentless" posts I think most of my posts contain something worth seeing. | ||
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Well I guess thats one way to play mafia, just pretend to be really stupid. | ||
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On April 13 2011 11:33 bumatlarge wrote: No im not actually a veteran. If you really push GM doctor there is a good chance you wont get lynched the next day. Just saying. This isn't fear mongering at all "push my target or I'll lynch you" me considering a Dr.H bum connection is fearmongering, you threatening someone with a lynch is not. Ok, I see the way it is ^_^ | ||
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Also anyone who believes that a detective would claim assassin to get into office needs to rexamine the game. Had flamewheel not claimed assassin and claimed town he would have had my vote along with the majority of the towns, the only way his assassin claim makes sense is if he is an assassin, I really doubt the mafia would claim assassin to try to get themselves elected. As town his actions make no sense, as an assassin they make perfect sense, he didn't get the protection he needed so now he *has* to try to get whomever he sees as the most likely scum lynched to try to ensure medic protection. All that said flamewheel is an expert player with a finely honed scumsense so I wouldn't be surprised if coag turned out to be scum irregardless of whether or not flamewheel is the assassin or not. | ||
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Here is why: we have a *confirmed* liar telling us to lynch someone who you think *might* be lying, normally I would argue that we lynch the liar first and take it from there. But you point out that both are going to die is irrlevant, as policy we don't lynch on a liar's claims, period. This is a waste of a lynch if coag is what he claims, a vet. I have an alternate suggestion, ignore the two, have a vigi hit coag tonight, if his claim is false then coag is dead, wham we got scum, if he is telling the truth we have a confirmed townie. In the meantime assassins take care of protac for us, no need to expend a lynch on a situation that is easily resolvable. Instead we can direct our lynch at a real scum supect, like M0nster or AO. I think this is the best solution to the problem. | ||
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fw is a vet, he knows what he is doing. What "advantages" does he gain from fakeclaiming assassin day 1? he "lures out reds?" He self proclaims his ability as a scum hunter yet he runs claiming a third party wincon? As a dt he could claim dt, get in office and rape scum with both analysis and his dt checks. Instead he uses a convoluted plan? This is the same experienced player that then last minute voteswings a mayoral vote and gets a known town analyzer killed. A town member who was posting helpfully to new players, as well as analyzing people. See what he did last day and what he’s doing now. He is gambling on getting med protection. His actions have shown he is in no means a dt. It is anti town to play the way he has and he certainly cannot claim inexperience. In a setup with a known liar claiming dt and finding scum you lynch the accuser. Lynching the accused tells you nothing about the accuser. You always lynch the accuser first. Add in the rule of Lynch all Liars you have the person you should be lynching first. Coag has also claimed a role that is provable with a night hit. Shoot him and get a confirmed townie to rally around! Mafia has to waste hits killing him, medics can prot him and we make the mafia uncomfortable. Seems like a better investment than lynching and moving on. It makes most sense to Lynch neither of them. Vigi coag Assassins will almost deff shoot prot, and we lynch someone that we aren’t relying on a third parties “word” is red. Seriously is it that hard to see? | ||
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On April 14 2011 01:09 chaoser wrote: Nah yo, if you're mafia then this is the BEST reason to lynch coag. Mafia's best play if coag was mafia is to pardon him. We're forcing your hand if that's the case. Why put off something we're sure of. Why waste a shot on coag when we could use them on other scum? You saw what happened to Pandain when he claimed DT. He was destroyed by town. A DT claim would cause massive scrutiny by all and in the end he would learn nothing. An assassin claim would only really cause scum, another blacks, and a few townies to be against him. It's a brilliant plan If he thinks you're mafia then this play would make sense. Rather have a townie mayor make a mistake Day 1 Lynch than a mafia in office. You yourself even said that you might consider Kav as the day went on yesterday btw. You even said he was acting scummy and posting for the sake of posting with his "help". Are you backtracking that? Whatever happens we don't give him medic protect. BAM. Resolves your issue. I thought I made it clear that while I endorse LaL i'd rather see it enforced by vigis? Policy lynches are impossible to analyze because the mafia can happily jump on them and this makes the lynch much less effective at granting information. I explained this earlier. Also fw didn't have to claim dt, he could have run on "Im a fucking god among analysts" and most of the town, including me would have probably voted him in. Claiming assassin if you are not is 100% stupid, I dont care what "brilliant" justifications he is coming up with now, this smacks of LSB's bait and switch. And while I said that I considered that kav deserved scrutiny you'll notice that I was going to lynch an inactive or a lurker, not kav. Also when did this turn into a personal attack on me? I'm trying to stop you from making a mistake Also you seem to be considering that the vigi shot is super valuable, more often than not vigi shots end up going into the town, with coag at least theres a clear target. If coag *is* a vet then we have a confirmed townie who we can rally around, who mafia have no choice but to waste kp on while our medics protect him. If by some miracle he isn't shot tonight and all kp are accounted then he is definitely mafia, probably the gf since he seems to want a dt check so bad | ||
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On April 14 2011 01:35 chaoser wrote: Look at this wishy washy bullshit. You pepper, IN THE SAME POSTS, positions that Kav might be scum....OR MIGHT BE TOWN. And then you post this stuff: Like you were compeletely against Kav's lynch the whole entire time. Yeah, ok lol I never said I was against kav's lynch, ever. Please stop putting words in my mouth, I agreed that kav looked scummy, but in retrospect you can't deny that his posts were helpful to newbies. | ||
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Its vastly superior to ignore both of them and have a vigi shoot coag, if he dosn't get shot we can just lynch him, if he does and flips red then yay! if he does get shot and lives, well then we have a confirmed townie scum have to shoot. | ||
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On April 14 2011 02:49 CubEdIn wrote: Oh, I did, but you're completely dismissing the fact that he might ACTUALLY be a DT. Sure, I don't really buy it 100% either, but it's a possibility, and if we don't lynch coag then he won't have night protection (because your plan is ... don't protect either), which means that he'll die to an assassin (heck, they do have one free shot), why not take it? Sure, it makes sense that he's neither, but that's a bit off imo. So here's what I think: 1. We lynch Coag. 2. If he flips red, we start protecting the Assassin/DT 3. If he's DT, he'll confirm/fos someone each day. If he's not, he'll have to constantly use R1CH ability to stay alive, in which case.. he'll confirm/fos someone each day. The only other scenario would be that he's either town (in which case what he's doing is awfully, awfully dumb), or scum (in which case we trade coag for a scum, sorry coag, xoxo). Which is ok at this point in the game. Heck, he can even be Vigi-shot during the night if coag doesn't flip red. I don't see anyone who could prove to be a better lynch. Remember, we don't lynch for the flip, we lynch for information. The sooner we have the information, the better. Sure theres a .001% possibility fw is a dt, but lynching coag proves nothing at all! even if coag flipped red, we still would have no idea whether fw got lucky/great analysis or if he is an actual DT, he has *lied* copiously, *nothing* he says can be believed. Also the assassin can only use the DT ability once, and only starting day 2. Killing coag gives us no information, and I as a policy don't lynch for information, I lynch scum! Is this not evident? | ||
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GMarshal's Analysis of Dr.H This originally started as a PbP but man, Dr.H posts in a volume to rival mine On April 09 2011 17:31 DoctorHelvetica wrote: lol lynch kavdragon is the first non-troll post Dr.H makes besides stating that he does not talk at night. Interesting to see how he is tunneling from the start On April 10 2011 04:56 DoctorHelvetica wrote: kavdragon is saying a lot of useless bullshit trying to appear protown and basically his posts are this: words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words obviously no mafia would say THIS much "pro-town" stuff that everyone already knows amirite ;o???? i'm not buying it. you did this same thing in pokemafia which i hosted Kav was trying to help the newibes in the early game and as we had aready stated there was not much to discuss but generalities. Also notable that Dr.H calls on his experience as a host to try impress upon us how right he is. that same sentence written as "you did this same thing in pokemafia" would have made the same point, without pointing out how much of a "vet" you are On April 10 2011 05:07 DoctorHelvetica wrote: because i dont feel the need to write paragraphs about useless shit saying basically: 1. the mayor is important! 2. the pardoner is also important 3. be careful who you vote for! 4. mafia may or may not run for mayor! 5. we should pressure inactive people! this is all obvious stuff. no one has said anything of value yet and because the game hasn't even started I haven't taken the time to scrutinize the game setup and come up with a plan for how I'm going to play this game or where I think the town should go. but that doesn't mean i can't smell your "look at me and how townie i'm acting!" bs right away more tunneling, oh joy, lets discard any value in night 0 discussion explaining to people how to play and put it down to trying to look pro-town On April 10 2011 05:10 DoctorHelvetica wrote: idk honestly if im mafia im thinking "lets not run and then try to keep all the pressure on the people who ran for mayor for a few days while we wreak havoc." even if a few lynches don't go that way, it's pretty easy to keep attention on the mayoral/pardoner candidates since they usually post a lot in the beginning and townies who post a lot are likely to contradict themselves at least once so imo the mayor powers are not nearly as strong as the power to manipulate the towns focus by any means necessary that's just my take on it Here, I'll translate, "I dont want any suspicion cast on me if I run" and "No way scum would run, lol" right... the mafia team is just going to ignore the possibility of getting 3 more votes or the pardon in order to "keep attention on the mayor, pardoner" sure thing. then he has a series of posts where he basically uses one liners to criticizes every word out of kavs mouth. Then comes the assassin claim. Dr.H seems to be pretty happy to support him, as it "keeps the role out of mafia hands" I wont go into the discussion of the assassin again, but it *is* anti town to hand out the role to a third party out of fear On April 10 2011 13:57 DoctorHelvetica wrote: more than likely: 2 medics 2 dts 1 vig 2 vets 2 nosy neighbors contributing without contributing, its easy to speculate on balance, watch "I bet there are 3 vigs, 3 vets, no medics and a dt" is this conformable? Does this help the town? No. On April 10 2011 13:58 DoctorHelvetica wrote: no its not a scumtell ill vote in the vote thread im not gonna waste my time posting all my votes in here especially since i tend to switch votes a lot this is dumb. there will be a dedicated vote thread. if you want to know who votes for who, you can read that thread. less clutter here = better do I even have to bother rebutting why allowing people to hide their voteswitches is bad? Oh wait this is the guy that benefited from people voting for him at the very last second with no in thread justification. never mind. and then he tunnels on Kav , I'm noticing a trend, 1 get tunnel kav, 2 get the assassin elected 3 tunnel kav somemore On April 10 2011 14:39 DoctorHelvetica wrote: im gonna run because i can only trust myself here is my "policy" mayor: -use my votes on whoever i think is scummiest not who the "town" tells me to vote for -lynch kavdragon on day 1 pardoner: -pardon whoever i think is getting lynched on a dumb bandwagon even if the rest of the town is pretty sure they are scum that's it also as far as the assassin game like i said we should post who we suspect of being an assassin so they dont kill townies but 90% of posts in this thread should be geared toward finding mafia so really i think this game should be kinda disregarded unless it becomes important later i have a bad reputation of getting too much attention in games though but i came pretty close to nailing the entire scumteam in salem and in insane mafia so i think i'll just get better every game vote 4 me I thought he was only going to run if he was mafia? Well lets deconstruction his campaign as well, I mean it can't be as bad as mine, right? Let me sum it up "I'm going to do whatever the fuck I want" well then thank god he didn't land pardoner. Well I'm sure glad that a player who says he isn't going to be held accountable for his actions landed the mayor. he then spends 2 pages arguing the meaning of FoS. His response to being told he was overly agressive over a small issue? "build a bridge and get over it" I applaud his building of town spirit. Wonderful work, *that* is how you encourage new players On April 11 2011 02:14 DoctorHelvetica wrote: this is exactly what the mafia wants btw a mayor who they can manipulate, force his votes to go the way they want to get him lynched (waste of town KP on a useless role like assassin and also ridding town of mayor). so being held accountable for your votes if you have three of them is being "manipulatable" right? Why did people vote for someone who said that he wasn't going to take responsibility for his actions with a powerful role again? I dont think I need to comment on this, do I? then again he did say "townies who post a lot are likely to contradict themselves at least once" so I suppose he is cleared these replies without answering the substance of an accusation always worry me, since its easy to say "lol" and not so easy to either justify your behavior or own up to your mistakes. however his later attitude towards the assassin and his reaction to pandians claims agree with mine, which is positive. On April 11 2011 05:12 DoctorHelvetica wrote: wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong His debating skills know no bounds. Seriously when a serious argument is presented this is *not* the appropriate reply. On April 11 2011 05:14 DoctorHelvetica wrote: pandain is a special kind of idiot well at least we can be a duo of reason trying to push the town onto scumhunting doctorhelvetica/coagulation '11?? I'm going to assume this was a joke post, because otherwise I have to question Dr.H's sanity, and that would be bad. On April 11 2011 05:27 DoctorHelvetica wrote: gmarshal is wishy washy and you supported protact i'm obviously the best choice also my behavior is clearly the most pro-town anyone can see this my behavior is obviously pro town, "I will do whatever the fuck I want if I get the pardon", my behavior is obviously pro town, I think theres a disconnect here. On April 11 2011 06:00 DoctorHelvetica wrote: This is the big tl;dr post where I explain all my thoughts I think I've done all the poking and prodding I can. We're in a sticky situation and we need to make the best of it. So I'll lay out my platform simply. -Protactinium should NOT be mayor. The mayor role is designed to be very helpful to either town/mafia depending on who gets it. Our goal is not to simply have non-scum as mayor, our goal is to have town as mayor. Why? More votes. Protactinium has no interest in who is lynched, he will simply vote the way the "town" wants him to so that he is not lynched himself. This is bad. Huh? Shouldn't the mayor use his votes the way the town wants? No, because the town is quite often wrong. Mafia will manipulate/split bandwagons and then try to influence the mayor to pad the lynch they want. The mayor should always vote for the person HE thinks is scum. The mayor should act autonomously and vote based on his own thoughts and instincts. An autonomous third party mayor is a terrible idea, an autonomous town-aligned mayor is not. -I'm okay with Protactinium being Pardoner. This will give him some protection and allow us to threaten him into using his DT check/kill power where we want it. The pardoner power is pretty insignificant compared to the mayoral power and I suppose we could make some use of him. As long as our focus is using proactinium to find scum NOT using him to find other assassins. -Pandain is stupid and bad. You should never roleclaim DT day 1 and he is essentially using his role to hold us hostage into voting for him. This makes perfect sense if he is godfather and it makes even more sense if he is on a scumteam with Protactinium. Unfortunately, DT is probably the most valuable town role and I really hate the idea of just letting him die. Pandain is a terrible scumhunter and is bad at almost every aspect of the game and the idea of him in a leadership position makes my skin crawl. I would be okay if he was pardoner and no one took him seriously/listened to him by accident. -This idea that you can't scumhunt on day 1 is retarded. That's my favorite bad point to make when I'm mafia. yeah the game is designed on the assumption that town mislynches on the first day. But we should all absolutely be focused on figuring out who is scum, who isn't. What is each persons motivation. WHAT ARE THEY TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH BY POSTING THIS. that's the question you should ask! Not: -what contradictions do they make (townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia) i'm gonna repeat that 100 times for emphasis: townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafiatownies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafiatownies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafiatownies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafiatownies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafiatownies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia Okay. These are scenarios I am somewhat comfortable with: Mayor/Pardoner: Myself/Protactinium Gmarshal/Protacinium Gmarshal/Pandain Scenarios I prefer: Myself/Pandain Myself/Coagulation Myself/Gmarshal Gmarshal/Myself Gmarshal/Pandain Pandain might be the DT. Give him a worthless role like pardoner and watch him closely. I don't want to throw the DT away or waste medics on someone like him. Who I feel comfortable lynching and why: Kavdragon - His posts after role PMs were sent were designed to do two things. To seem as pro-town and helpful as possible and to contribute nothing at all. Lots of obvious "advice" and redundant bullshit. When called out he becomes defensive and tries to turn the tables on me. Not good. However kavdragon is a useful player if town, this is a risky lynch choice but I have a strong scum read on him. mib - Same deal. Tries to "contribute" but says nothing at all. Regurgitates talking points from previously in the thread and has a bad excuse to explain why that is. He's a new player and mostly inactive so lynching him should be no big loss if he's town anyway. So that's my thoughts. My plan is to have myself as mayor, I will disregard everything the town says completely, and to have pandain as pardoner so if he is DT he doesn't die. If bodyguards start dying, lynch pandain. He's an idiot so it won't be long before he fucks up if he faked his roleclaim, so I feel pretty safe about that. This one is juicy, lets dismantle it, point one about the assassin had already been made, time and time again, but its good he includes it here, I agree with him. His second post about electing an assassin to an anti-town role is downright bad if he didn't want the mayor to be in the hands of the assassin and wanted to avoid the assassin game entirly, then why is he proposing the assassin as a pardoner. I will not be held accountable for my votes is a little less pro-town then point one, I understand the "I'll vote for who I feel is scum" thats the duty of every townie mayor or not, what worries me is that he is setting out the groundwork for covering for a pardon with "I said I would be autonomous so I autonomously pardoned the guy you were convinced was scum, because I can" The fact that he would be ok with pandian in a protected position after his stupid claim and after having sustained that Pandian sucks makes me wtf. Dr.H seems to not want people to look for contradictions, which is interesting, I agree that townies often change their mind, thats the issue with imperfect information, but blatant contradictions on core issues are a sure sign of scum. "I will disregard everything the town says completely, and to have pandain as pardoner so if he is DT he doesn't die. " we go from pandian is probably lying and should be ignored to pandian is ok as pardoner, also I'm *still* going to ignore anything the town says. Also note how thought he refers to how "worthless" the pardoner role is, when in reality it is a strongly anti town role On April 11 2011 07:08 DoctorHelvetica wrote: if he's town then i admit i was wrong and then we move on? it's very rare that anyone is correct in 100% of their scumreads and I'm exaggerating my sureness to provoke reactions. I'm about 70% on kav in favor of him being mafia, but of course there is a chance he's town. nothing is really sure in mafia. I wouldn't be terribly shocked if I was wrong. I feel better about mib, i'd rather lynch him and get protact in as pardoner and have him use his check on kav. already setting up the groundwork for "oops", and look, it *was* "oops" On April 11 2011 07:54 DoctorHelvetica wrote: i don't think anyone will have the balls to lynch you day 1, even i don't, i'll wait until day 2 to make my case on you unless your tune changes right... ok... again with this "see I wasn't 100% sure, but I was *interdependent*" On April 11 2011 14:52 DoctorHelvetica wrote: this is almost artistically scummy throwout some people who have contributed basically nothing (On/Lanaia), pad Kav's shitty arguments, make a big "come on guys can we all just get along and play well???" post that doesn't serve any purpose or contribute any analysis anyway you're on my shitlist and hopefully everyone can see how ridiculous this post is i'll still be lynching originalname though well, interesting thing with the ON lynch, huh? Also nice little accusation of tnkted, what did he flip again? Have you made a right call yet? On April 12 2011 01:43 DoctorHelvetica wrote: This is a good point from Gmarshal. "Let's lynch for information" is something scum love to say, because really "information" is just a WIFOM scenario that they can push in whichever way they want. If ON turns up green/red that doesn't really give us that much relevant information. Mafia will often attack/accuse other mafia on day 1 and use confounding tactics to make sure they can not be discovered if a teammate is lynched. I'd like to ask, what exactly is a platform of substance? It seems like your only goal here really is to discourage people from voting for me, even though you don't seem to think I'm scum. I have never accused Protactinium, you, or kita of being scum. Kavdragon/mib were the only two I made a real case for. Either you really misunderstood some things I said or you're putting words in my mouth to make me look bad. Which is it? My Thoughts OriginalName is still my top lynch candidate, but if I'm elected mayor I will re-read everybodies posting to make a decision. If I am elected and don't lynch OriginalName don't accuse me of "going back on my promises" or anything like that. I will lynch my top suspect no matter what, I will always vote for my top suspect, NO MATTER WHAT the "town" (a.k.a the mafia) wants me to do. But let's talk about this ON situation. If ON flips red, this is when you, the town aligned player, want to go through his posts. Who does he avoid talking to? Who does he defend? Does he ever attack/accuse someone in a way that seems fake? That's a good way to find potential teammates. From that list, go through all of their posts and try to analyse their behavior. Do they treat ON strangely? Are their posts scummy at all? AFTER YOU DO ALLLLLLLL OF THAT Go ahead and build a case. Otherwise keep your mouth shut. It does not "prove" Gmarshal is mafia or anyone else. If he flips green then it doesn't mean anything other than he played poorly, really. What it does mean that it is likely mafia aren't going to be outright opposing his lynch, maybe a couple will weakly, but by and large mafia will have no reason to try to stop him from being lynched. Keep that in mind, but don't run too far with that idea. If I'm offering any "substance" (whatever that means), it's a mayor who won't let the mafia pressure him into making bad decisions. I will analyse independently and vote based on my own conclusions, that's the safest way. Oh goodie, another long post! First of all he calls out my post as being good, which I have no comment on other than when Kav pointed out something as a good point Dr.H's reply was "no one cares" I do agree with his question of "what is a plataform of substance?" I thought I had one, but apparently posting why you would make a good mayor is anti-town. Oh look, he is already setting himself up to be able to lynch kav, nice to know he thought things out ahead of time. At least the town should have been able to figure out what was going to happen Also his "thoughts" boil down to what I said earlier, lynching ON proves absolutely nothing, one way or another. On April 12 2011 02:49 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I don't like the idea of a blue "list". Here is my advice: Detective - Investigate the person you most suspect of being scum. Medics - Protect the a person you believe to be town who you think might get hit (active scumhunters/people who hinted they might be blue) Trackers - Track inactive players. If they do something, read their posts and try to determine if they are quiet blues or scum. Watchers - Watch someone you believe to be town who you think might get hit. I'm not going to put out a list of names, use your own judgment. Don't rely on what others tell you, mafia will try to make you waste your abilities. I really dislike the direction GMarshal is taking right now. Vig Kitaman? Are you serious? See, the part about kita makes sense, that was the reactions I was fishing for, both from kita and form the players around him. I find that Dr.H's reasoning for not using a blue list for argument on the basis that the mafia can mislead you to be wrong. The point of a blue list is to open discussion on the topic and increase the power of the blues, if the medic part of the list contains 6 people then maifa will likely try to hit outside of it, increasing the effectiveness of the medics (since the list effectively protected 6 people). This proved slightly flawed as the mafia shot into my list last night. On April 12 2011 02:53 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Tunneling is not a bad thing. Tunneling is exactly how you should scumhunt. Focus down on one person, pressure them hard, force them to defend themselves until you're either more sure they are mafia or are satisfied. MiB's defense has neutered my suspicions slightly, but he's on my shitlist for sure. theres tunneling and theres tunneling, sustained aggression is not necessarily bad, irrationally tunneling is. On April 12 2011 07:39 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I'm going to lynch Kavdragon with no attached explanation of why he goes from a ON lynch to a Kav lynch... interesting On April 12 2011 08:12 DoctorHelvetica wrote: i accidentally hit enter woops DETECTIVES FUCKING READ THIS INSTEAD: Let's say you investigate your target and you get a hit! They're scum! Well, is it time to roleclaim and reveal your results? Hell fucking no it is not. If you do that you will die and now have no worth in the late game. But DrH! I can just request constant medic protection! And now the medics are busy protecting you and not someone else who is gonna get hit. If the mafia know for sure who medics will protect, it doesn't reduce their KP. You WANT the mafia to hit those targets, you WANT them to guess wrongly about where medics are going. Ok so what do you do with your result? Well go look at their posts. Go to their profile, go to their posts, and read fucking eeeeeeeeeeeeeverything they've posted. Come up with a case. Now you have the confidence to call them out, use their posts as evidence and support. Now take your case and sit on it for a while. Because some good townie (or another DT) will probably FoS that person. This is a great jumping off point for you to introduce your case. If there is already suspicion, let that suspicion grow, add fuel to the fire, then introduce your stronger points (the fact that they are scum is made much more obvious in your posting now that you have your check for confidence) and make a strong case during this aggression to nail the lynch. If YOU cold start the bandwagon and are really the only one making all these great points, the mafia is thinking "Well I guess we found our DT" and you're dead. If you're lucky you get medic protection but if the mafia is sure you're the DT I wouldn't be surprised if they doublestacked. I don't suggest using code/hints/breadcrumbs because the mafia can decipher this juuuuuuuuust as easily as the town can. In fact, they can decipher it better because they are in contact with each other. you know the generic advice he accused kav of posting. Yeah, this is an example of it. On April 12 2011 13:30 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Because he isn't mafia probably. Mafia has no real incentive, I don't think they want to see him as pardoner. His check could be really troublesome. I find it amusing that people think I'm scum simply because I pulled ahead after rationalizing my posting and making good points. So if the later switches from GMarshal to me scummy, aren't late switches from me to GMarshal scummy? Oh it isn't scummy. It's all WIFOM. People change their minds, peoples idea of best candidate will change. Let's focus scumhunting on how we actually catch scum: 1. Posting behavior 2. lynching scum -> hindsight analysis Please and thank you. when people are switching votes off of GM because of a "mafia bandwagon" in the first 24 hours of day 1 thats ok, no need to comment. When people suddenly start electing the assassin at the last minute thats not suspicious at all. And then he lynches Kav, after kav requests to be lynched... On April 12 2011 14:15 DoctorHelvetica wrote: the reason i quit tl mafia is because of the two times me vs youngminii ended up in two townie deaths if that happens again i'll probably ragequit forever. i hate it when shit like this happens but I mean I guess it's the likely outcome. One of the bigger reasons I don't like the mayor position is it gives the mafia someone to blame for what is the most likely outcome anyway - lynching a townie on the first day. All we can do now is reevaluate whatever information we have. Playing the blame game isn't getting us anywhere. If your only reason for thinking I'm scum is I picked a non-mafia out of 40 people to lynch, then maybe you should keep it to yourself. Oh, no dont berate me for mis-lynching, I might just ragequit! forever! Goes hand in hand with "dont hold me accountable" and it seems to work too. On April 12 2011 14:16 DoctorHelvetica wrote: have any other reasons other than i picked a wrong lynch on day 1 like happens in 99% of games anyway? might as well get that out of the way before people make the mistake of paying attention to you any fingers of suspicion on me must be silenced! Although I agree ON failed to provide reasons On April 12 2011 14:25 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I'm actually glad I didn't second guess myself. I was wrong but I've spent my entire "scumhunting" career never sticking to my guns and this kind of confidence is going to make me dangerous when I tighten my analysis up, I think. Since I know I'm town I'm incredibly wary of anyone who goes out of their way to defame me. That is kind of the lynchpin of why I dislike Barundar's posting in this game. I sort of use it as a jjumping point, because I know the mafia want me out of this game. "I'm incredibly wary of anyone who goes out of their way to defame me." = I reserve the right to OMGUS anyone who questions my poor decisions. TL:DR: Dr.H got himself elected on a funky vote switch, killed a town analyst and continues to support an assassin. He is supporting a know liar rather than doing what is reasonable and ran for mayor with the worst possible role to get in office, which is *also* unprovable until he dies. Yeah, Dr.H is scum | ||
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On April 14 2011 03:15 chaoser wrote: If lynching coag gives no information, how does that contradict with your policy stance of not lynching for information? More like 70% DT in my books based on what I'm reading in thread but besides that, are you saying that coag flipping red and us lynching him is NOT a good thing? You know, I've done a decent amount of analyzing people's posts and I remember you were all for that in Insane 2 and not getting caught up in plans and whatnot. Why don't we let town decide and you can go analyze someone. I really want to see some. I did, see above. Also you are arguing that if we lynch coag it gives us information I am disagreeing on the lynch on the basis of two things. 1.) No, it does not and 2.) I dont do the "lynching for information" thing. | ||
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
Only in insane mafia 2 | ||
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On April 14 2011 03:21 Barundar wrote: If you want to make an analysis cant you just [spoiler ] the quotes please? So freaking hard to read :/ sorry, would you like me to repost it for you? here you go, its in the spoiler! ^_^ + Show Spoiler + Well, since I don't want to waste our lynch on coag I thought I would provide you something juicy to work with. GMarshals Analysis of Dr.H This originally started as a PbP but man, Dr.H posts in a volume to rival mine + Show Spoiler + On April 09 2011 17:31 DoctorHelvetica wrote: lol lynch kavdragon is the first non-troll post Dr.H makes besides stating that he does not talk at night. Interesting to see how he is tunneling from the start + Show Spoiler + On April 10 2011 04:56 DoctorHelvetica wrote: kavdragon is saying a lot of useless bullshit trying to appear protown and basically his posts are this: words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words obviously no mafia would say THIS much "pro-town" stuff that everyone already knows amirite ;o???? i'm not buying it. you did this same thing in pokemafia which i hosted Kav was trying to help the newibes in the early game and as we had aready stated there was not much to discuss but generalities. Also notable that Dr.H calls on his experience as a host to try impress upon us how right he is. that same sentence written as "you did this same thing in pokemafia" would have made the same point, without pointing out how much of a "vet" you are + Show Spoiler + On April 10 2011 05:07 DoctorHelvetica wrote: because i dont feel the need to write paragraphs about useless shit saying basically: 1. the mayor is important! 2. the pardoner is also important 3. be careful who you vote for! 4. mafia may or may not run for mayor! 5. we should pressure inactive people! this is all obvious stuff. no one has said anything of value yet and because the game hasn't even started I haven't taken the time to scrutinize the game setup and come up with a plan for how I'm going to play this game or where I think the town should go. but that doesn't mean i can't smell your "look at me and how townie i'm acting!" bs right away more tunneling, oh joy, lets discard any value in night 0 discussion explaining to people how to play and put it down to trying to look pro-town + Show Spoiler + On April 10 2011 05:10 DoctorHelvetica wrote: idk honestly if im mafia im thinking "lets not run and then try to keep all the pressure on the people who ran for mayor for a few days while we wreak havoc." even if a few lynches don't go that way, it's pretty easy to keep attention on the mayoral/pardoner candidates since they usually post a lot in the beginning and townies who post a lot are likely to contradict themselves at least once so imo the mayor powers are not nearly as strong as the power to manipulate the towns focus by any means necessary that's just my take on it Here, I'll translate, "I dont want any suspicion cast on me if I run" and "No way scum would run, lol" right... the mafia team is just going to ignore the possibility of getting 3 more votes or the pardon in order to "keep attention on the mayor, pardoner" sure thing. then he has a series of posts where he basically uses one liners to criticizes every word out of kavs mouth. Then comes the assassin claim. Dr.H seems to be pretty happy to support him, as it "keeps the role out of mafia hands" I wont go into the discussion of the assassin again, but it *is* anti town to hand out the role to a third party out of fear + Show Spoiler + On April 10 2011 13:57 DoctorHelvetica wrote: more than likely: 2 medics 2 dts 1 vig 2 vets 2 nosy neighbors contributing without contributing, its easy to speculate on balance, watch "I bet there are 3 vigs, 3 vets, no medics and a dt" is this conformable? Does this help the town? No. + Show Spoiler + On April 10 2011 13:58 DoctorHelvetica wrote: no its not a scumtell ill vote in the vote thread im not gonna waste my time posting all my votes in here especially since i tend to switch votes a lot this is dumb. there will be a dedicated vote thread. if you want to know who votes for who, you can read that thread. less clutter here = better do I even have to bother rebutting why allowing people to hide their voteswitches is bad? Oh wait this is the guy that benefited from people voting for him at the very last second with no in thread justification. never mind. and then he tunnels on Kav , I'm noticing a trend, 1 get tunnel kav, 2 get the assassin elected 3 tunnel kav somemore On April 10 2011 14:39 DoctorHelvetica wrote: im gonna run because i can only trust myself here is my "policy" mayor: -use my votes on whoever i think is scummiest not who the "town" tells me to vote for -lynch kavdragon on day 1 pardoner: -pardon whoever i think is getting lynched on a dumb bandwagon even if the rest of the town is pretty sure they are scum that's it also as far as the assassin game like i said we should post who we suspect of being an assassin so they dont kill townies but 90% of posts in this thread should be geared toward finding mafia so really i think this game should be kinda disregarded unless it becomes important later i have a bad reputation of getting too much attention in games though but i came pretty close to nailing the entire scumteam in salem and in insane mafia so i think i'll just get better every game vote 4 me I thought he was only going to run if he was mafia? Well lets deconstruction his campaign as well, I mean it can't be as bad as mine, right? Let me sum it up "I'm going to do whatever the fuck I want" well then thank god he didn't land pardoner. Well I'm sure glad that a player who says he isn't going to be held accountable for his actions landed the mayor. he then spends 2 pages arguing the meaning of FoS. His response to being told he was overly agressive over a small issue? "build a bridge and get over it" I applaud his building of town spirit. Wonderful work, *that* is how you encourage new players + Show Spoiler + On April 11 2011 02:14 DoctorHelvetica wrote: this is exactly what the mafia wants btw a mayor who they can manipulate, force his votes to go the way they want to get him lynched (waste of town KP on a useless role like assassin and also ridding town of mayor). so being held accountable for your votes if you have three of them is being "manipulatable" right? Why did people vote for someone who said that he wasn't going to take responsibility for his actions with a powerful role again? + Show Spoiler + I dont think I need to comment on this, do I? then again he did say "townies who post a lot are likely to contradict themselves at least once" so I suppose he is cleared + Show Spoiler + these replies without answering the substance of an accusation always worry me, since its easy to say "lol" and not so easy to either justify your behavior or own up to your mistakes. however his later attitude towards the assassin and his reaction to pandians claims agree with mine, which is positive. + Show Spoiler + On April 11 2011 05:12 DoctorHelvetica wrote: wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong His debating skills know no bounds. Seriously when a serious argument is presented this is *not* the appropriate reply. + Show Spoiler + On April 11 2011 05:14 DoctorHelvetica wrote: pandain is a special kind of idiot well at least we can be a duo of reason trying to push the town onto scumhunting doctorhelvetica/coagulation '11?? I'm going to assume this was a joke post, because otherwise I have to question Dr.H's sanity, and that would be bad. + Show Spoiler + On April 11 2011 05:27 DoctorHelvetica wrote: gmarshal is wishy washy and you supported protact i'm obviously the best choice also my behavior is clearly the most pro-town anyone can see this my behavior is obviously pro town, "I will do whatever the fuck I want if I get the pardon", my behavior is obviously pro town, I think theres a disconnect here. On April 11 2011 06:00 DoctorHelvetica wrote: This is the big tl;dr post where I explain all my thoughts I think I've done all the poking and prodding I can. We're in a sticky situation and we need to make the best of it. So I'll lay out my platform simply. -Protactinium should NOT be mayor. The mayor role is designed to be very helpful to either town/mafia depending on who gets it. Our goal is not to simply have non-scum as mayor, our goal is to have town as mayor. Why? More votes. Protactinium has no interest in who is lynched, he will simply vote the way the "town" wants him to so that he is not lynched himself. This is bad. Huh? Shouldn't the mayor use his votes the way the town wants? No, because the town is quite often wrong. Mafia will manipulate/split bandwagons and then try to influence the mayor to pad the lynch they want. The mayor should always vote for the person HE thinks is scum. The mayor should act autonomously and vote based on his own thoughts and instincts. An autonomous third party mayor is a terrible idea, an autonomous town-aligned mayor is not. -I'm okay with Protactinium being Pardoner. This will give him some protection and allow us to threaten him into using his DT check/kill power where we want it. The pardoner power is pretty insignificant compared to the mayoral power and I suppose we could make some use of him. As long as our focus is using proactinium to find scum NOT using him to find other assassins. -Pandain is stupid and bad. You should never roleclaim DT day 1 and he is essentially using his role to hold us hostage into voting for him. This makes perfect sense if he is godfather and it makes even more sense if he is on a scumteam with Protactinium. Unfortunately, DT is probably the most valuable town role and I really hate the idea of just letting him die. Pandain is a terrible scumhunter and is bad at almost every aspect of the game and the idea of him in a leadership position makes my skin crawl. I would be okay if he was pardoner and no one took him seriously/listened to him by accident. -This idea that you can't scumhunt on day 1 is retarded. That's my favorite bad point to make when I'm mafia. yeah the game is designed on the assumption that town mislynches on the first day. But we should all absolutely be focused on figuring out who is scum, who isn't. What is each persons motivation. WHAT ARE THEY TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH BY POSTING THIS. that's the question you should ask! Not: -what contradictions do they make (townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia) i'm gonna repeat that 100 times for emphasis: townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafiatownies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafiatownies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafiatownies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafiatownies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafiatownies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia Okay. These are scenarios I am somewhat comfortable with: Mayor/Pardoner: Myself/Protactinium Gmarshal/Protacinium Gmarshal/Pandain Scenarios I prefer: Myself/Pandain Myself/Coagulation Myself/Gmarshal Gmarshal/Myself Gmarshal/Pandain Pandain might be the DT. Give him a worthless role like pardoner and watch him closely. I don't want to throw the DT away or waste medics on someone like him. Who I feel comfortable lynching and why: Kavdragon - His posts after role PMs were sent were designed to do two things. To seem as pro-town and helpful as possible and to contribute nothing at all. Lots of obvious "advice" and redundant bullshit. When called out he becomes defensive and tries to turn the tables on me. Not good. However kavdragon is a useful player if town, this is a risky lynch choice but I have a strong scum read on him. mib - Same deal. Tries to "contribute" but says nothing at all. Regurgitates talking points from previously in the thread and has a bad excuse to explain why that is. He's a new player and mostly inactive so lynching him should be no big loss if he's town anyway. So that's my thoughts. My plan is to have myself as mayor, I will disregard everything the town says completely, and to have pandain as pardoner so if he is DT he doesn't die. If bodyguards start dying, lynch pandain. He's an idiot so it won't be long before he fucks up if he faked his roleclaim, so I feel pretty safe about that. This one is juicy, lets dismantle it, point one about the assassin had already been made, time and time again, but its good he includes it here, I agree with him. His second post about electing an assassin to an anti-town role is downright bad if he didn't want the mayor to be in the hands of the assassin and wanted to avoid the assassin game entirly, then why is he proposing the assassin as a pardoner. I will not be held accountable for my votes is a little less pro-town then point one, I understand the "I'll vote for who I feel is scum" thats the duty of every townie mayor or not, what worries me is that he is setting out the groundwork for covering for a pardon with "I said I would be autonomous so I autonomously pardoned the guy you were convinced was scum, because I can" The fact that he would be ok with pandian in a protected position after his stupid claim and after having sustained that Pandian sucks makes me wtf. Dr.H seems to not want people to look for contradictions, which is interesting, I agree that townies often change their mind, thats the issue with imperfect information, but blatant contradictions on core issues are a sure sign of scum. "I will disregard everything the town says completely, and to have pandain as pardoner so if he is DT he doesn't die. " we go from pandian is probably lying and should be ignored to pandian is ok as pardoner, also I'm *still* going to ignore anything the town says. Also note how thought he refers to how "worthless" the pardoner role is, when in reality it is a strongly anti town role + Show Spoiler + On April 11 2011 07:08 DoctorHelvetica wrote: if he's town then i admit i was wrong and then we move on? it's very rare that anyone is correct in 100% of their scumreads and I'm exaggerating my sureness to provoke reactions. I'm about 70% on kav in favor of him being mafia, but of course there is a chance he's town. nothing is really sure in mafia. I wouldn't be terribly shocked if I was wrong. I feel better about mib, i'd rather lynch him and get protact in as pardoner and have him use his check on kav. already setting up the groundwork for "oops", and look, it *was* "oops" + Show Spoiler + On April 11 2011 07:54 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Lol, sorry I meant the right read. Heh. that looks like I planned that now. w/e don't care. i don't think anyone will have the balls to lynch you day 1, even i don't, i'll wait until day 2 to make my case on you unless your tune changes right... ok... again with this "see I wasn't 100% sure, but I was *interdependent*" + Show Spoiler + On April 11 2011 14:52 DoctorHelvetica wrote: this is almost artistically scummy throwout some people who have contributed basically nothing (On/Lanaia), pad Kav's shitty arguments, make a big "come on guys can we all just get along and play well???" post that doesn't serve any purpose or contribute any analysis anyway you're on my shitlist and hopefully everyone can see how ridiculous this post is i'll still be lynching originalname though well, interesting thing with the ON lynch, huh? Also nice little accusation of tnkted, what did he flip again? Have you made a right call yet? + Show Spoiler + On April 12 2011 01:43 DoctorHelvetica wrote: This is a good point from Gmarshal. "Let's lynch for information" is something scum love to say, because really "information" is just a WIFOM scenario that they can push in whichever way they want. If ON turns up green/red that doesn't really give us that much relevant information. Mafia will often attack/accuse other mafia on day 1 and use confounding tactics to make sure they can not be discovered if a teammate is lynched. + Show Spoiler + On April 11 2011 22:55 tnkted wrote: I'd like to ask, what exactly is a platform of substance? It seems like your only goal here really is to discourage people from voting for me, even though you don't seem to think I'm scum. I have never accused Protactinium, you, or kita of being scum. Kavdragon/mib were the only two I made a real case for. Either you really misunderstood some things I said or you're putting words in my mouth to make me look bad. Which is it? My Thoughts OriginalName is still my top lynch candidate, but if I'm elected mayor I will re-read everybodies posting to make a decision. If I am elected and don't lynch OriginalName don't accuse me of "going back on my promises" or anything like that. I will lynch my top suspect no matter what, I will always vote for my top suspect, NO MATTER WHAT the "town" (a.k.a the mafia) wants me to do. But let's talk about this ON situation. If ON flips red, this is when you, the town aligned player, want to go through his posts. Who does he avoid talking to? Who does he defend? Does he ever attack/accuse someone in a way that seems fake? That's a good way to find potential teammates. From that list, go through all of their posts and try to analyse their behavior. Do they treat ON strangely? Are their posts scummy at all? AFTER YOU DO ALLLLLLLL OF THAT Go ahead and build a case. Otherwise keep your mouth shut. It does not "prove" Gmarshal is mafia or anyone else. If he flips green then it doesn't mean anything other than he played poorly, really. What it does mean that it is likely mafia aren't going to be outright opposing his lynch, maybe a couple will weakly, but by and large mafia will have no reason to try to stop him from being lynched. Keep that in mind, but don't run too far with that idea. If I'm offering any "substance" (whatever that means), it's a mayor who won't let the mafia pressure him into making bad decisions. I will analyse independently and vote based on my own conclusions, that's the safest way. Oh goodie, another long post! First of all he calls out my post as being good, which I have no comment on other than when Kav pointed out something as a good point Dr.H's reply was "no one cares" I do agree with his question of "what is a plataform of substance?" I thought I had one, but apparently posting why you would make a good mayor is anti-town. Oh look, he is already setting himself up to be able to lynch kav, nice to know he thought things out ahead of time. At least the town should have been able to figure out what was going to happen Also his "thoughts" boil down to what I said earlier, lynching ON proves absolutely nothing, one way or another. + Show Spoiler + On April 12 2011 02:49 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I don't like the idea of a blue "list". Here is my advice: Detective - Investigate the person you most suspect of being scum. Medics - Protect the a person you believe to be town who you think might get hit (active scumhunters/people who hinted they might be blue) Trackers - Track inactive players. If they do something, read their posts and try to determine if they are quiet blues or scum. Watchers - Watch someone you believe to be town who you think might get hit. I'm not going to put out a list of names, use your own judgment. Don't rely on what others tell you, mafia will try to make you waste your abilities. I really dislike the direction GMarshal is taking right now. Vig Kitaman? Are you serious? See, the part about kita makes sense, that was the reactions I was fishing for, both from kita and form the players around him. I find that Dr.H's reasoning for not using a blue list for argument on the basis that the mafia can mislead you to be wrong. The point of a blue list is to open discussion on the topic and increase the power of the blues, if the medic part of the list contains 6 people then maifa will likely try to hit outside of it, increasing the effectiveness of the medics (since the list effectively protected 6 people). This proved slightly flawed as the mafia shot into my list last night. + Show Spoiler + On April 12 2011 02:53 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Tunneling is not a bad thing. Tunneling is exactly how you should scumhunt. Focus down on one person, pressure them hard, force them to defend themselves until you're either more sure they are mafia or are satisfied. MiB's defense has neutered my suspicions slightly, but he's on my shitlist for sure. theres tunneling and theres tunneling, sustained aggression is not necessarily bad, irrationally tunneling is. + Show Spoiler + On April 12 2011 07:39 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I'm going to lynch Kavdragon with no attached explanation of why he goes from a ON lynch to a Kav lynch... interesting + Show Spoiler + On April 12 2011 08:12 DoctorHelvetica wrote: i accidentally hit enter woops DETECTIVES FUCKING READ THIS INSTEAD: Let's say you investigate your target and you get a hit! They're scum! Well, is it time to roleclaim and reveal your results? Hell fucking no it is not. If you do that you will die and now have no worth in the late game. But DrH! I can just request constant medic protection! And now the medics are busy protecting you and not someone else who is gonna get hit. If the mafia know for sure who medics will protect, it doesn't reduce their KP. You WANT the mafia to hit those targets, you WANT them to guess wrongly about where medics are going. Ok so what do you do with your result? Well go look at their posts. Go to their profile, go to their posts, and read fucking eeeeeeeeeeeeeverything they've posted. Come up with a case. Now you have the confidence to call them out, use their posts as evidence and support. Now take your case and sit on it for a while. Because some good townie (or another DT) will probably FoS that person. This is a great jumping off point for you to introduce your case. If there is already suspicion, let that suspicion grow, add fuel to the fire, then introduce your stronger points (the fact that they are scum is made much more obvious in your posting now that you have your check for confidence) and make a strong case during this aggression to nail the lynch. If YOU cold start the bandwagon and are really the only one making all these great points, the mafia is thinking "Well I guess we found our DT" and you're dead. If you're lucky you get medic protection but if the mafia is sure you're the DT I wouldn't be surprised if they doublestacked. I don't suggest using code/hints/breadcrumbs because the mafia can decipher this juuuuuuuuust as easily as the town can. In fact, they can decipher it better because they are in contact with each other. you know the generic advice he accused kav of posting. Yeah, this is an example of it. + Show Spoiler + On April 12 2011 13:30 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Because he isn't mafia probably. Mafia has no real incentive, I don't think they want to see him as pardoner. His check could be really troublesome. I find it amusing that people think I'm scum simply because I pulled ahead after rationalizing my posting and making good points. So if the later switches from GMarshal to me scummy, aren't late switches from me to GMarshal scummy? Oh it isn't scummy. It's all WIFOM. People change their minds, peoples idea of best candidate will change. Let's focus scumhunting on how we actually catch scum: 1. Posting behavior 2. lynching scum -> hindsight analysis Please and thank you. when people are switching votes off of GM because of a "mafia bandwagon" in the first 24 hours of day 1 thats ok, no need to comment. When people suddenly start electing the assassin at the last minute thats not suspicious at all. And then he lynches Kav, after kav requests to be lynched... + Show Spoiler + On April 12 2011 14:15 DoctorHelvetica wrote: the reason i quit tl mafia is because of the two times me vs youngminii ended up in two townie deaths if that happens again i'll probably ragequit forever. i hate it when shit like this happens but I mean I guess it's the likely outcome. One of the bigger reasons I don't like the mayor position is it gives the mafia someone to blame for what is the most likely outcome anyway - lynching a townie on the first day. All we can do now is reevaluate whatever information we have. Playing the blame game isn't getting us anywhere. If your only reason for thinking I'm scum is I picked a non-mafia out of 40 people to lynch, then maybe you should keep it to yourself. Oh, no dont berate me for mis-lynching, I might just ragequit! forever! Goes hand in hand with "dont hold me accountable" and it seems to work too. + Show Spoiler + On April 12 2011 14:16 DoctorHelvetica wrote: have any other reasons other than i picked a wrong lynch on day 1 like happens in 99% of games anyway? might as well get that out of the way before people make the mistake of paying attention to you any fingers of suspicion on me must be silenced! Although I agree ON failed to provide reasons + Show Spoiler + On April 12 2011 14:25 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I'm actually glad I didn't second guess myself. I was wrong but I've spent my entire "scumhunting" career never sticking to my guns and this kind of confidence is going to make me dangerous when I tighten my analysis up, I think. Since I know I'm town I'm incredibly wary of anyone who goes out of their way to defame me. That is kind of the lynchpin of why I dislike Barundar's posting in this game. I sort of use it as a jjumping point, because I know the mafia want me out of this game. "I'm incredibly wary of anyone who goes out of their way to defame me." = I reserve the right to OMGUS anyone who questions my poor decisions. TL:DR: Dr.H got himself elected on a funky vote switch, killed a town analyst and continues to support an assassin. He is supporting a know liar rather than doing what is reasonable and ran for mayor with the worst possible role to get in office, which is *also* unprovable untill he dies. Yeah, Dr.H is scum. | ||
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On April 14 2011 07:46 The_Roist wrote: 1. GMarshal pardons coag. Not happening. Period. As long as I hold the pardon I will not use it. | ||
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On April 14 2011 07:44 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I disagree hugely with a large part of your analysis on Rean, I'll talk about that later with you. Out of that list who do you suspect? Barundar Coagulation GMarshal RedFF ilovejonn are all on my shitlist. Lovely list, care to attach reasons to it, or are you once again basing this on your gut? Also please reply to my analysis. After three hours of work and going through all your posts I think it deserves at least an acknowledgment | ||
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Wonderful defense, I love how you indexed it and everything so I could easily refernce the different points. Theres a well bodied accusation against you out there. Please try to defend yourself better than this. | ||
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On April 14 2011 08:12 M0nsterChef wrote: I'm a tracker. I tracked RedFF and he didn't go anywhere. /facepalm /facepalm /facepalm Word cannot describe how foolish this claim was. | ||
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Anyway, my take on the kills, I'm going back and looking at every post by this person to see why they might have been killed. Mafia will often off those who start to suspect them to draw attention away. So, one by one now darmousseh: Thinks I am town, thinks Dr.H is town, thinks Kav is scum, almost no relevant posts tnkted: FoS on TranceStorm, Defends ON based on the same stuff I said, Thinks I'm town, Defends MiB CubEdIn: had all of *three* posts before his death... yeah makes no sense to me. at least he was restored to us! Pandain: I can only assume that the shit with his DT claim worried the mafia enough to shoot him, although this kill makes the least sense of all, in my opinion at least. Pandian didn't have any credibility or any posts outside of his DT claim conclusion: is the mafia team retarded? or just slow on the uptake? The missed all the good analysts and people with thread presence and went after people who weren't doing much. While im glad the missed all the people posting alot of analysis, I have to suspect that they don't enjoy a very strong leadership. Either that or they consciously chose to avoid people on my medic list, (well except for tnkted) which would point to the medic lists being a good idea. A common trait is that all these people (Except pandian) thought I was town at one point or another, which is noteworthy, although it proves nothing. Also Dr.H waiting on your reply to me ^_^ | ||
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On April 14 2011 09:00 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I hope you're comfortable waiting quite a while. I scanned it and saw mostly bad point. I don't intend to have a back and forth with you. I'll tell you why you're misguided once and leave it at that unless you have specific questions. Well, thats one way to defend oneself I guess, refuse to argue. Ok, tell me why I'm "misguided" if it doesn't satisfy me I'll keep bothering you | ||
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On April 14 2011 09:16 DoctorHelvetica wrote: No, I'm saying I will respond to your post just not anytime very soon because I am too busy to make a long drawn out post right this very minute. I'm saying that once I defend myself, I've defended myself. I don't want to have a big argument with you, it's just noise. People can look at what you said and what I said and decide for themselves what makes sense. I can agree to that. Although if I think any part of your defense is weak, I will call you out on it ^_^ | ||
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On April 14 2011 09:26 urashimakt wrote: This bit was particularly interesting. The only reason I can see for being openly rude to the mafia team is in trying to endear yourself to the town. A townie could have reason to do this, sure, but I find it would probably come more naturally to someone who felt obligated. It's also interesting because, as night fell, you came out with a pretty specific list on who you wanted blues to go to work on. When no one really responded to it, you attempted to prompt responses to see whether other people were in agreement. I felt that was really anti-town because it would help mafia know who to avoid wasting KP on or getting caught killing/drugging, and who to hit: the "less important" individuals. I think it might be worth noting. Blue lists are pro-town, they have been pro town since time immemorial let me break down why 1.) Medic lists increase the efficiency of medics, lets say for the sake of discussion the town has 1 medic, and I make a list with six targets for medic protection, this makes the mafia more hesitant to hit any of the six, since its more likely that there is a medic protecting them. That list singlehandedly multiplied the efficiency of the medic by six. If I make the mafia hesitate to hit a good player even a little then the list has served its purpose 2.) DT lists put pressure on people, and give something to analyze later in the game. Mafia especially inexperienced mafia panic when they are afraid they will be DTed, which can cause them to have to post more/attempt to appear pro-town to dodge the check. 3.) With all the new/inexperienced players around they need some guidance, I mean look at M0nster claiming tracker, if he is and he followed RedFF then he clearly should have followed my advice. Mafia probably would not have sent out a player under such suspicion to make a kill. 4.) When I inevitably die, you can look over my list of people to be dted, and people to be mediced and say "huh, these are the people GM was suspicious of, perhaps we ought to look at them" that is why blue lists are good. Frankly I'm happy the mafia hit less valuable players, its nice to not need to worry about Pandian claiming jack of all trades or something, darm was under heavy suspicion by chaoser, which could have led to a mislynch and Cubed had all of 4 or so posts. so yes I think the mafia team is retarded for its hits. | ||
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Jackal, I propose we pressure the following five: TranceStorm -because one of the dead suspected him AirbladeOrange - because I think he comes off as scummy Mig jaminz kevconsim then if we get responses that satisfy us we move onto another set of five. | ||
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quotes in spoilers, my commentary in bold + Show Spoiler + On April 10 2011 18:10 AirbladeOrange wrote: Hello. I just got off my temp ban and had to read through 438967346 pages here. For the mayor situation, it just seems so difficult to actually pick a good mayor at the beginning of the game. Everyone who's running seems like they have an equally valid reason for why people should vote for them. Hell, I probably would have run if I weren't temp banned. My instincts tell me to vote for the flashy guy. Marshal seems like he would be a guy with a fancy looking suit based on the pretty pictures presented in his campaign post. this is the worst reasoning I have seen for a vote, ever... GM has pretty pictures! Vote GM!? + Show Spoiler + On April 11 2011 04:04 AirbladeOrange wrote: Would any of the Mayor candidates think about taking out Dr. H? well, this is notable a rather bold first post it provides no reasoning and seems to accomplish nothing + Show Spoiler + On April 11 2011 04:16 AirbladeOrange wrote: I'm thinking about voting for you for Mayor actually. But only if you will take me out. You can run on the kill airbladeorange platform. the fuck? so random I dont know what to say one way or another + Show Spoiler + On April 11 2011 05:07 AirbladeOrange wrote: What are your reasonings? I feel like its impossible to think we know much of anything at this point. How can you even say we "know you're not mafia?" I may be the village idiot, but I acknowledge the fact that we don't really know anything. At least as a collective group. Both Kavdragon and Gmarshal had decent posts for mayor, but you just never know. Unless you know thing that I or others do not. great way of saying nothing, while looking like you are saying nothing, yet still supporting someone + Show Spoiler + On April 11 2011 05:17 AirbladeOrange wrote: Even if Dr. H got hit, it doesn't mean that everyone on that list is mafia. It doesn't even mean that ANYONE there is mafia. They could hit him to make it seem like the other guys on his suspicious list are mafia when they could just be town. this is actually a decent point, but still it says very little + Show Spoiler + On April 11 2011 05:20 AirbladeOrange wrote: Maybe it's just because I don't know Dr. H's style of play, but it just strikes me as being suspicious. But regardless he hasn't actually done anything yet to give us a reason to take action against him. But I do agree with him and Coag that we need to not worry about assassins for now. Definitely keep it in mind, but if we focus too much on them it will certainly give us less of a chance getting the mafia. this is a vacuous comment parroting Dr.H that looks like its adding something but isn't +1 scumpoint + Show Spoiler + On April 11 2011 05:44 AirbladeOrange wrote: I'm feeling uneasy that claiming roles and shitting up a storm is helping to keep the mafia safe and the town not united. noncontributing generality! Yay! + Show Spoiler + On April 11 2011 06:34 AirbladeOrange wrote: It seems like the only people have have a chance at winning all fit this description. Do you care to call anyone out or elaborate your thoughts? at least he calls out FF but it adds nothing really null tell on this post + Show Spoiler + On April 11 2011 06:46 AirbladeOrange wrote: I'd say it's highly unlikely the mafia is mostly inactive people. Lurking or being inactive doesn't really indicate you are town, mafia, or an assassin. It just either means you are not paying much attention to the game or you don't really know what to do. It's always worth keeping track of who is lurking but I don't really see a lurker as a threat we can say should be lynched soon. I'm more concerned about active people are are trying to deceive the town. I'm moderately suspicious of Dr. H. still just because of how he came right out the the gate a little bit crazy. Kavdragon, as I mentioned earlier, started out seeming like town but seems to get more and more suspicious as the game goes on. Now he is just throwing around accusations that I don't fully understand. downright wrong, mafia often hides amongst the lurkers. to me this looks like he is trying to distract attention from his buddies in the shadows, also alot of text to say "I want to lynch an active player over a lurker" yet manages to dodge committing to any of them + Show Spoiler + On April 11 2011 09:35 AirbladeOrange wrote: My first post i said I was thinking about voting for Marshal. I had just come off of a ban and was giving my initial feeling from reading all those pages of mostly spam. It wasn't until a good amount later that I actually made a decision and voted. I didn't have a reason to vote against him, as Dr. H and Kav seemed more suspicious than him, and they were two of the other major contenders. Later, I think it was I, who first mentioned that he might be red. The bandwagoning can be suspicious but really I don't put much stock into it. The last game of mafia I played the town bandwagons a lot especially in the early game. I don't really suspect Marshal, but of course it's possible. M0nsterChef is either red or is just bad at the game. That's what I'm thinking. But I think there might be a correlation between him blindly voting for Marshal and possibly people bandwagoning. Even though bandwagoning doesn't mean much at this point, reds are very likely to bandwagon right now. If any red is bandwagoning it is probably a lurker like M0nsterChef. I say take him out unless there are any new developments that are meaningful. If he turns up red then we take down Marshal and check into the other bandwagoners. I'm beginning to think Dr. is less scummy as this goes on and I really don't know what to make of Kav. He has good and helpful posts, to newer players like myself. Is being overly helpful suspicious? I guess. But I'm suspicious of everyone and everyone should be suspicious of everyone else as well. The key is to just not make rash decisions. Dr. H. and Kav both have support for them saying that they are good players and this might be a good reason not to lynch either of them just yet. I hope that wasn't too much rambling and I got my ideas out relatively clear. Ask any questions if you find flaws in my reasoning. repeating what you said is a great way to avoid saying anything new! Also look how he dosn't commit to anything at all, he basically says "I have no idea, I wont commit to anything, lol" yet in a wall of text +1 scumpoint + Show Spoiler + On April 11 2011 11:31 AirbladeOrange wrote: I thought you were going to tone it down Dr. H? And for the record I don't believe you to be scum anymore. I think you're just upfront and bitter. Fine by me as long as you are as good as people think you are at this game. an opinion, interesting, taking other players word about something, bad idea, still at least its an opinion + Show Spoiler + On April 11 2011 14:23 AirbladeOrange wrote: I'm fine with lynching M0nsterChef or OriginalName.. It's not that I necessarily believe them 100% to be mafia, but they seem to be not helping out the town effort much. Either way both seem like decent candidates. Kav I'm still unsure of as well, but at least he provided good, if not suspiciously thorough, analysis/strategies for newer players. list all the current suspects to be lynched, then dont commit to any of them you would prefer lynched, +2 scumpoints + Show Spoiler + On April 11 2011 14:31 AirbladeOrange wrote: Reds get desperate when they feel backed into a corner. let me restate an already made point! + Show Spoiler + On April 12 2011 01:54 AirbladeOrange wrote: I have only defended myself thus far. If anyone thinks I defended anyone else in a strong fashion they are mistaken. I want it to be clear that my top two suspicious people right now, as was yesterday as well, are M0nsterChef and OriginalName. I do, however, agree with redFF that if ON is red, we need to worry about Marshal. I think the case is the same with M0nsterChef just because he has barely posted and blindly voted for Marshal. I still believe Marshal to be town, as with Dr. H. There is nothing that I feel I can be certain of at this point so I prefer to play safe and try to find the easier plays first. Getting rid of experienced guys like Dr. H (who is under less and less pressure now), Marshal (suffering from an extreme backlash because he got too many votes), and Kav (who I don't really know what to make of but would not be good to lynch first). Marshal's situation is suspicious but not condemnable. I feel we should try to take out people who may be his pawns - OriginalName, N0nsterChef I say as things stand right now go for one of these two and keep an eye on Marshal. I'm still good with electing him mayor as long as we don't forget the suspicions we experienced with the voting. And coagulation - I have no idea what to make of this guy. I think he's just crazy. I think GM is suspicious, yet I'm ok with voting him as mayor... ok... +2 scumpoints for anti-town behavior, you don't try to elect someone you think is suspicious into the mayorhood, also way to state the obvious about the current pressure conditions + Show Spoiler + On April 12 2011 04:04 AirbladeOrange wrote: Do reds generally run multiple people for mayor/pardoner, or just throw all their support to one of them? generic newbie question, not a sign of anything + Show Spoiler + On April 12 2011 05:43 AirbladeOrange wrote: I don't recall hear much from you and would be interested in more of your analysis, reasonings, and examples. The more I think about it especially with this post, I believe there is a decent chance mafia is running multiple people. There is a big power struggle for mayor. I'm not really convinced any one the candidates are mafia, but maybe two of the major ones are mafia and are arguing with each other to further confuse us. Marshal and Dr. H both being mafia? I don't know how plausible that is but it could really throw us for a loop and is something we should keep in mind. I know I don't have sound examples for this but all the major candidates seem to be good players and it could easily throw newer players like myself off. I just wanted to let everyone know I'm trying to think about this and this is what's on my mind. odd theory that helps not at all + emphasizes how new he is , scummy + Show Spoiler + On April 12 2011 11:58 AirbladeOrange wrote: What does EBWODP mean? Also, Marshal where is this coming from? Why are you hating on me now? Make up your mind whether your going to have my lynched or not because if you are I don't want to vote for you anymore. How can I possibly be more redish than OrigionalName or M0nsterChef? the reaction I would expect out of any player, null-tell + Show Spoiler + On April 12 2011 13:46 AirbladeOrange wrote: I've been trying to publicly state my thoughts to everyone and keep everyone informed on my positions. Marshal, among others, has failed to answer my previous post where I ask what seems more scummy about myself compared to my top two picks of OriginalName and M0nsterChef. I really want to know if I should change my vote because time is almost up. a little too preoccupied about dying yet he fails to move his vote, something is off there, and that worries me + Show Spoiler + On April 12 2011 14:11 AirbladeOrange wrote: Is anyone besides Dr. H actually surprised? easy negative comment to make, if you aren't surprised then why did you fail to defend kav? letting someone you think is town is bad play + Show Spoiler + On April 12 2011 14:18 AirbladeOrange wrote: Obviously Dr. H's analysis was flawed but I still don't think he's mafia. I'm still suspicious of ON and M0nsterChef. Anyone else? still tunneling those two, still its an effort, so +1 town point, -1 town point for not actualy making a case + Show Spoiler + On April 13 2011 05:42 AirbladeOrange wrote: I have been advocating M0nsterChef as one of my main suspects for being red even before all the shitstorm about the mayor campaign. This is in response to being called out for blindly voting for GMarshal. He provides us with this extensive post of bold reasoning. A strong analysis over a strong leader? What does that even mean? Dr. H and GMarshal both appeared to be good analyzers as well as leaders. The rest of the post is just pointless blabble about the goal of the game and keeping the town united. Obvious fluffy stuff. And here is his second reply when GMarshal wanted a better explanation of his vote. Here is an apology and admitting to making a mistake. I think he is being real when he says he knows he made a mistake but again, the rest of his post is just throwing out relatively useless questions which many people have already been addressing. Here is the next useless post. He claims he explained why he voted for GMarshal, which I guess he did. I'm just not sure you can even call it an explanation. I don't know if this really points to anything but it should be noted that he is quite defensive. I take this as playing the noob card to the extreme. "Come on guys, stop picking on me." The rest of his posts were even more pointless than the ones I quotes. One of them being saying "dang" after Kav was found out to be green. Another was just a comment about the spamming in the tread. He only has 10 posts thus far in the game and has contributed even less than me. At least I'm trying and open to answering questions. All of his responses were the opposite of compelling. The reason I wanted to bring him up was the I was suspicious of him ever since the blind GMarshal vote. As the game goes on GM is looking more and more red. GM is even accusing me without any real analysis and has yet to ask me questions directly, which I am more than happy to address. But I guess my beef with GM will be left for another post later. I am always leery of people who look like scum from the very beginning and fail to ever help their own public image. With all that said I want everyone to be clear who are on my scummy list: M0nsterChef GMarshal OriginalName well its an attempt at analysis at least. I like how I only appear on his scumlist after others make a case on me where before I didn't even get mentioned, either sheep or taking advantage of the situation, one or the other + Show Spoiler + On April 13 2011 16:20 AirbladeOrange wrote: I'm not necessarily against lynching coagulation, but how is he definitely a better kill than M0nsterChef, OriginalName, or GMarshal? At first I didn't know what to make of Coag because he seemed all over the place. Now, after Protac's analysis I certainly agree he is very suspicious. But I'm just not convinced he is more dangerous than any of the other suspicious people. They all seem on the same level to me. let me summarize, I'm not going to commit to coag or any of my other suspects, I'm going to hope someone steps up and says "yes, lynch M0nster instead" so I dont actually have to take a stance + Show Spoiler + On April 14 2011 02:11 AirbladeOrange wrote: + Show Spoiler + On April 14 2011 01:58 redFF wrote: We should lynch m0nsterChef. Let me tell you why. If you remember, his first contribution after the game started was to vote for GM in the voting thread. Voting without contribution was enough to warrant suspicion, but considering some of the other votes for GM: and Made him doubly suspicious to me without even posting. Now here is his reason for the vote Consider how DrH made lynching kav a huge part of his campaign, yet here there is no mention of DrH at all in this post. The rest of this post is pretty barren in content and high on recycling stuff already said, and obvious stuff e.g. Protact is not town, Protact cares about the assassin game etcetc. Now look at his next few posts in the thread. All him defending himself, no analysis like he said he would do in his post justifying voting for GM. No contribution at all. even throws in a little slip as to him and ON being together somehow. He hasn't mentioned ON before that, hasn't interacted with him throughout the whole thread either. Strange that the majority of his posts are him defending himself and he has nothing else to contribute. Well ok then...thanks. indeed. Decent point, I guess at least you acknowledge that you aren't contributing... ##Vote M0nsterChef Why we should not lynch coagulation. Think about it for a second. Why in christs name would a dt claim assassin? If protact was really dt, he could have just run for mayor normally, got voted in, and then said he was dt now he was protected. Im tired of protact claiming black, claiming blue and just serving up a bunch of fucking wifom and derailing the thread. We should concentrate on lynching scum. And the most certain scum lynch seems to be m0nsterChef. Since ON got replaced by LSB and LSB seems like a long time player. I'm guessing he could be valuable to town and we shouldn't lynch him today. If the most important thing to do is to lynch scum, I just can't see coag being scummier than the guys I have been suspicious of long before coag. GMarshal, OriginalName, and most importantly M0nsterChef. I just don't really trust protac that much. His analysis seems quite good but so do his manipulation skills. I feel safer sticking to my guns and going with the people I think have the higher chance of being mafia. Right now that is M0nsterChef. Nobody have actually made a convincing argument why coag, if mafia, is actually more dangerous to keep around for another day than any other scum. Furthermore, I thought I did a decent job of showing all of M0nsterChef's notable posts. I think it's strange Red went through and did the same kind of thing that I did and came to the same conclusion. Big post without really saying much. how is m0nster with 10 posts more dangerous than coag? At least he sticks to his guns and points at his analysis thoug, +2 town points Based on the day 1 stuff I'm tending [red]Scum[/red[ however if he continues to post and try to do analysis I might retract that belief, step it up AO! | ||
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On April 14 2011 10:17 Protactinium wrote: Trying to derail the lynch. How cute. You’re going to have to make a bigger splash if you want to be successful though. The list is laughable: earlier you didn’t give an opinion on Coagulation other than maybe lynching him. But now that he's in the spotlight you turn around and ignore the whole Coagulation thing, offering over and over again to lynch an inctive instead. Inactive over scummy? Please… For everyone trying to discredit the Coagulation as scummy: Coagulation is not “unreadable”. Its fairly easy to differentiate when he is town and when he is mafia. As I stated in my analysis, one thing that has been strikingly absent from this game is Coagulation actively and fearlessly pointing out scum. Check out any prior game where Coagulation is town. He has no problems pointing out who he thinks is scum. On the other hand, in this game, he hasn’t accused any mafia with conviction. Yes, it is true that even as town, Coagulation doesn’t post any analysis. But that doesn’t stop him just saying “X is mafia”. Notice how that is not present in this game either. It doesn’t matter that he defended Kavdragon. Mafia know that information anyways, so it isn’t a big shocker. Coagulation isn’t acting like he normally does when he’s town. He viciously attacked my candidacy, which is a pro-mafia move. The timings of his posts are suspicious. Every one of his actions fit with mafia objectives. His defense of himself after my accusation is just terrible. His vet claim is laughable too. He said he could prove being vet. But that isn’t possible unless a vig shoots him. And how does he know there are any vets left? Obviously, he doesn’t. He’s just stalling for time. Notice how when everyone ignored his vet claim, he got even more desperate and asked for a DT check. Guess what, I already checked him! He’s obviously in a panic. Everyone trying to save him by suggesting that they wait until I flip first is just trying to stall for time. If you take a step back and think about it for a moment, Coagulation is clearly mafia. Everyone stop bickering and focus on the real issue at hand, which is the Coagulation lynch. Everything else can wait until tomorrow. I'm going to take a page out of Ace's book: You are now invisible to me assassin. I have no need to talk with people who don't share my wincondition and lie to achieve their ends. Have fun in hell tonight. | ||
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On April 14 2011 10:22 Jackal58 wrote: I don't thing half of them understand the concept of pressure. Either with votes or FoS in the thread. Hell jaminz and Mig might end up getting modkilled. I'm going to analyze them and see if I can't make them post, and I suggest you do the same. | ||
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Flamewheel, what result, exactly did coag return? | ||
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I want the *exact* response he got. | ||
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On April 14 2011 10:44 Protactinium wrote: This is the most anti-town suggestion ever. A few posts back you stated that you wouldn't be surprised if Coagulation flipped red. You were elected on the premise that you could analyze behavior. You're in a position of leadership. Stop trying to avoid this discussion. If you can analyze, then analyze Coagulation and give me an honest opinion on his alignment. None of this wishy washy stuff. First, there's no reason to avoid this lynch. As I mentioned, Coagulation's veteran claim is absolutely bogus. A confirmed townie to rally around? Yeah right. This game has no PMs, so confirmed townies are near useless. Furthermore, it's Coagulation. I don't care if BrownBear confirms him. A confirmed Coagulation is worth zero. Regardless, your obstinateness is getting old. I won't waste my energy trying to convince you of anything. Its not like your vote matters. Answer my question. Now. | ||
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On April 13 2011 15:26 Protactinium wrote: Alright guys, now that night is over, I have another announcement to make. I checked Coagulation last night, and he is Mafia. you sir are not a DT, because that is not how DT's funcion in this game. DTs here return a role from which you must infer alignment. You didn't claim your check revealed coag to be a goon or a roleblocker, because you had no way of knowing that that is what you would get back as a dt, you didn't check coag last night because you are an assassin, hence you dont know if he is scum and if he is you dont know what role. Can we now as a town ignore the assassin? | ||
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On April 14 2011 11:02 Protactinium wrote: LSB is obviously trolling, and hence should be ignored. List of invisible posters: LSB ilovejonn GMarshal aidnai too late liar, I already nailed you to the wall. There's no squirming out of this one. | ||
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On April 14 2011 11:08 urashimakt wrote: The whole case that's been made, starting last night with DrH's evaluation, is that whether Prot is black or blue, he is banking on Coag being red. So whether Flamewheel has detected him as red or analyzed him as red, people are trusting in his need for Coagulation to be red. I don't see how this mindblowing tidbit changes anything. I am really starting to think that you are undoubtedly desperate. This info is useful to mafia because it would give them a better idea of whether he's black or blue, just to be sure. It proves absolutely nothing to town. Your case that he didn't want to tell you whether he was goon or roleblocker is not nearly as convincing as you think it is. The only reason I think we should consider not lynching Coag today is to lynch you instead and see what happens to Coag/FW during the night. you go on the invisible people list too, seriously, how the hell do you fail to see the relevance of this? flamewheel dosn't even know how the DTs work! Which means he is LYING! | ||
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On April 14 2011 11:22 DoctorHelvetica wrote: If you explain how exactly you know this then I am fully ready to abandon the coagulation lynch and do a new analysis. Read the description in the op very carefully. I'm not going to say more than that either way. | ||
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On April 14 2011 11:28 DoctorHelvetica wrote: It says reveal their "true profession". This does not necessarily imply that they will not get alignment. Well then I guess I have no choice but to claim. I'm a DT. I will *not* reveal who I checked as to not put them into any danger. I was hoping to keep this as a surprise to the scum in the lategame, but I'm not going to let the assassin get away with shit. | ||
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On April 14 2011 11:32 DoctorHelvetica wrote: No scum would do this to save coagulation of all people. My vote is off Coagulation. I did *not* check coagulation by the way, I'm just saying that flamewheels claim is utter bs. | ||
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On April 14 2011 11:40 kitaman27 wrote: I assume this means you did not find a scum/assassin day one? correct. if I had I would have made a concentrated effort for their lynch. My plan was to keep note of who were confirmed townies and reveal it in a situation that would be advantageous to the town. I still intend to do this, but now it won't come as a surprise to the scumteam, which was what I was hoping for. | ||
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I consider this topic settled ura. I will not lynch anyone based on the words of a confirmed liar, no matter how silky they may be. | ||
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On April 14 2011 11:50 urashimakt wrote: I said you said you didn't say. I'm agreeing on that, I'm just saying that it's beside the point initially raised in favor of lynching Coag. In my mind the point raised against coag was "prot is a DT, he got back a check saying he is red, lynch coag!" As to his analysis I have no real reply because I can't read coag at all, I read his posts and wonder if he is drunk, and then move on with my life. I simply think that that analysis is going to be biased anyway because this is prots last night on earth. Again, all I want is to avoid a mislynch based on lies, I'm not going to vote for coag because his alignment, much like his thought processes are arcane mysteries to me. Thats why I was so happy that the possibility of shooting him with a vigi came along, it made that issue go away. | ||
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Instead I propose the town look at some of the other analysis out there, such as mine of AO and adinai's of Rean and begin to pressure the lurking inactives. Its time we stopped being distracted from scumhunting by people who do not care for anything but saving their own hides with a medic. | ||
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On April 14 2011 12:14 Protactinium wrote: Incorrect. Coagulation is a key player for the mafia. It's not that he's a good player, it's that mafia have already committed to saving him. Look back at the thread. Ever since my Coagulation accusation, mafia have been trying to subtly redirect the lynch. Notice how people are "not convinced" that Coagulation is mafia, try to suggest that we let me die tonight to "prove" that Coagulation is innocent, and try to suggest other targets. Yet notice the divergence in the voting thread. The voting is overwhelmingly in favor of lynching Coagulation, yet the debate in the thread diverges sharply. This is not an accident. Notice how nobody was doing any real analysis before I popped up and accused Coagulation. Mafia felt no need to fear when they thought I was as good as dead. But when I post a strong analysis, they reacted. They reacted not by refuting my points, but by flooding the thread with alternative accusations trying to derail the lynch. Why? They don't know who to push. They know the Coagulation analysis is a strong one, so they need to offer a target that town will readily buy. They're trying to test the waters and see what lynch works. Obviously, Coagulation is Mafia. If he were anything but, Mafia would be content to let him die and would have never felt the need to defend him in the first place. It is certain that mafia defended him originally, as shown by the floods of alternative target suggestions. Your so-called "analyst" Pardoner doesn't do anything but fling mud at me for the better part of a day. Yet when I return and start decimating his attempt to derail the lynch, he panics and decides to fake claim DT in a desperate attempt to make the town back out. Oh, and not to mention he does a bogus ultimatum in which he makes a shoddy attempt to discredit my DT claim. GMarshal's DT claim as Mafia makes total sense. He can't be rolechecked, and given the situation the mafia is in, he needs to do something to stop the Coagulation lynch. Furthermore, he knows who the mafia are, so it isn't that difficult to solidify his position later on in the game. Just look back at GMarshal's behavior. Its clearly scumlike. He was elected on a platform of being a "good analyzer", but he has done nothing but fling mud, spread doubt, and make a few half hearted attempts at analysis. GMarshal has something to hide, since he is obviously mafia. Mafia have every reason to save Coagulation now because they've already committed to the lynch. Too many people are coming out accusing people of being mafia. Mafia felt pressured, and were forced to make a big move. Mafia got overconfident and thought they could discredit me because I switched claims. Unfortunately for them it failed. ^__^ | ||
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I think it only works that way if I'm the vote leader wiggles. Either way if you guys want to put a vote on me to feel safe, then I am perfectly ok with that, but I will not be using the pardon, ever, for any reason. | ||
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On April 14 2011 13:27 AirbladeOrange wrote: I haven't posted in a while so I will just continue to let everyone know where I stand. M0nsterChef was the top of my scum list but after him claiming blue I am now inclined to believe he is just a soon-to-be-dead blue. OringinalName was next on my list but he got replaced. So his replacement is now high on my list based only on ON's actions before he was replaced. GMarshal is on here too. He just seems like he is trying too hard. I'm not even feeling like I need to defend myself from his analysis because it just doesn't really mean anything. If others want me to clear anything up just let me know. I just don't want him as my first pick because at least he is active and could help pick up scum if he is town. I don't trust Flamewheel because he has lied before and is an experienced player capable of manipulating situations to suit his personal goals. I think I would be okay with a Coag kill, but I'm not sure he is my first choice based on ON's prior actions that I don't feel like digging up again. I feel like we're not going to forget all the heat on him so it's not like a now or never lynch. Nice of you to drop by! this is *not* a valid defense from my analysis and this is another of your noncommittal tunneling posts ##Vote: AirbladeOrange lets see how you respond to pressure, shall we? | ||
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On April 14 2011 14:32 Eiii wrote: Man, that was a hell of a ride. There's no doubt in my mind, having read all that, that protrac's claim was just a desperation move after he failed to get elected mayor. His lastest posts especially make this super obvious-- appeals to authority, making up stuff about GM to try to lynch him instead (????), etc. His play just doesn't make sense for someone who's actually a DT, or red for that matter. Anyway, all that seems pretty well established now. That said, coag isn't necessarily a bad lynch for today. protrac's (apparently) known for his analysis skills, and his analysis of coag seems fairly spot-on. The DT claim was required to save his ass, he couldn't just post good analysis and get away with it, so he's going to try his hardest to find a scum and 'out' them. We should let protrac die tonight, but people need to keep in mind that almost no matter what it is in protrac's best interest to deliver a red to us today. For the time being, I'm pro-coag lynch. Oh, and something else I picked up on reading through the thread: did I miss a post inbetween or has GM completely reversed his stance on this to make DrH look scummy You missed my realization half way through the game that the Pardoner dosn't make the person with the second highest votecount be lynched, but rather ends the day in a no lynch. The difference is that one is good because it stops last minute bandwagons, the other is terrible for the town because it ends in no lynch, causing the same problems the following day where both targets are up for lynch. I explained this 60 pages back or so, I forget exactly where | ||
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All that said I find chaoser's analysis of ON/LSB to be compelling, still, LSB is a really good player, and I'm loath to lynch him day 2, I would at least wait till day 3 where we will have more information to lynch on. I find Rean's attitude much scummier than his usual play, which in my mind makes him an ideal lynch target. Also I'm frustrated that I wrote two separate analysis of people and both have either postponed their answer or flat out ignored them. Seriously look at AO. he has been scooting along all game long making longish posts that say *nothing* and he just says my analysis is wrong and moves on. Why is no one jumping on this? its typical of scum to just dismiss accusations as wrong without answering them Unless AO replies to my accusation and justifies himself he will remain on my list as scum | ||
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On April 15 2011 00:18 Rean wrote: Yes Of course it did, you were accusing me I didn't just want to be lynched day 1 so I decided to troll around causing some WIFOM, figured it'd both keep me from being sacked day 1 and make it easier for scum to use me as a lynch target to try to switch a bandwagon off scum. Can I tell you how unresonable that is? "hmm, its day 1, I could post analysis on the candidates for mayor, weigh in on any of the many discussions or try to pressure inactives/lurkers... nah, I'll just troll, lol" Seriously, "I didn't want to be hanged" is the single worst justification I have heard for not contributing/trolling ever. "and make it easier for scum to use me as a lynch target to try to switch a bandwagon off scum." also a cute way to OMGUS anyone that considers you suspicious at all, since in that case they must be "scum using you as a lynch target to try to switch a bandwagon off scum." | ||
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On April 15 2011 00:36 Rean wrote: The kind of town that doesn't want to be lynched maybe? If you were town would you let yourself get lynched because hey, you're a townie, you're supposed to be okay with being lynched? No, you are supposed to play pro-town so you *aren't* lynched. | ||
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On April 15 2011 00:40 Rean wrote: Just for clarification so i'm straight on this: are you two calling me scum or just a retarded townie? I'm not decided yet, your responses are making me lean scum more and more, seriously that has to be the worst justification I have heard, ever. | ||
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On April 15 2011 00:45 Barundar wrote: I read your accusation of AO, and really you are just bashing all his posts. There is no discussion of them, you are simply looking for negative points. Looking for scum tells in every post is not behavior analysis. I don't like that you refuse to have an opinion on coag either. Like chaoser said, him lieing or not holds no relevance for his case. I'm not refusing to have an opinion on coag, I *really* don't know either way I looked at protacs analysis, if it were any player other than coag I would be pushing for his lynch, but you've been in games with him before, this is how coag plays! He is chaotic and random and enjoys flaming, what read do you expect me to have? Should I be suspicious because he claimed blue day 2? He does that more often than not, hell he claimed *medic* in XXXVII I forget who the quote is from, but coag flips a coin to determine what day of the week it is, so yeah, I have no idea, I want a vigi to shoot him so we can just be done with discussing this, seriously to me this is like analyzing Kenpachi, or serj its all crap that hurts the eyes to read. (and yes I went back and read over his posts, my conclusion is that his is drunk) | ||
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On April 15 2011 00:46 Serejai wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote Rean care to explain yourself Serejai? or do you want to talk about building towns? | ||
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On April 15 2011 01:06 Barundar wrote: @GM Doesn't mean you can't have an opinion on him, coag's meta is no where as solid as a player like Ace. You just ignored that I critized your analysis of AO and went on a rant about coag, I guess you are more touchy on the last issue? @Jackal Yeah we don't have to believe his DT claim. His arguments are like any other arguments though, you either agree or disagree. LSB lied so much in last game that I stopped looking at the arguments against chaoser and just wanted him dead, which turned out to be a huge mistake as you know. Well what am I going to say about your criticism of my arguments? You brought up no real points other than its "bashing" not much I can reply to that, now is there? I could argue the point, but anyone who reads the analysis can come to their own conclusions, there's no need for me to get upset over it ^_^ I dont follow what you are implying about coag's meta, as far as I know every game I have played with coag he has played exactly the same. Either way, its irrelevant, we are either going to hang him today or have him shot tonight, that will clear up the situation wonderfully. In regards to protacs arguments, which seems to be what really concerns you; find that much of what protac says seems to make sense to me, his arguments are persuasive, I even agree with some if his points, and then I remember it coagulation I'm talking about, the guy who ten minutes into the day in Guts and Glory suicided into our medic, the guy who claimed medic to LSB in XXXVII based only on his gut. So yes, I do find the liars arguments persuasive, fw is a great poster and I find his analysis to be excellent, if he had tried this on almost any other player I would probably be waving a pitchfork and going for the lynch of his chosen target. Is that enough of an opinion for you? Anyway I'm done discussing coag, if you guys want to lynch him then do so, otherwise a vigi will shoot him tonight (assuming we have any around). I'm off to class, I'll be back later to scumhunt. | ||
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On April 15 2011 09:16 DoctorHelvetica wrote: That's a good point. In fact coagulation being godfather would explain the major save. also I see absolutely no reason for you to tunnel coag unless you're the DT. but if coag were the gf then how would protac know? Are we ignoring the blatant contradctions now? He is a proven liar, he either think coag is black or is praying he guessed right and is a goon to "prove" his claim. But fine, you guys want to be stupid, then I'm not going to stop you. Also Dr.H you thinking I'm town doesn't clear you from answering my analysis even if its "bad" I expect a response tomorrow ^_^ ##Unvote ##Vote: Coagulation If coag flips anything other than "mafia goon" protac, you are toast, so pray to whichever gods you worship. Why people are still listening to a proven liar who is 100% an assassin, I will never understand. | ||
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On April 15 2011 09:27 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Sure, we can flip that. GMarshal, do you commit to using a DT check on LSB on Night 2? I think that would give the mafia extra incentive to hit LSB if he is town, and otherwise makes it so that medics have to stack on him just in case. I'd rather remain autonomous, but if the town insists that that that is what they want, then I am happy to comply. | ||
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On April 15 2011 09:30 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Then comply. How does that give mafia extra incentive to hit LSB? If he's town they want to hit him anyway cause he's experienced. You are an invincible DT don't weasel your way out of this. I'll do it ^_^ | ||
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At this point he is trying to execute the classic defense of "spew bullshit, pray a newbie medic buys it and protects me!" | ||
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On April 15 2011 09:53 LSB wrote: Summary of the reasons why people are being pushed to lynch. Flamewheel Lied about being DT. Is obviously ainitown Coagulation Flamewheel said he is DT and check coagulation who turned up red LSB Defends coagulation. Coagulation was checked by Flamewheel and is red. Therefore LSB is red. All I can say is wow You argue with them, I'm tired of fighting against a know liar and the town just flatly ignoring me, and/or siding with the assassin. | ||
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On April 15 2011 10:01 Protactinium wrote: You know its pro-town to ignore the arguments of mafia peoples, right? Good job town, keep at it. Yes mr. confirmed assassin. Who has been caught in multiple lies. | ||
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On April 15 2011 10:03 LSB wrote: Town is going to lose this. It's like Mafia XXXV. The town is a mob and is only as smart as the leader. Although people may think individually they are smart and analyze much, most people play a game of follow the leader. XXXVIII worked nicely since of the lucky Day 1 lynch got quiet a few of the vets to become the leader However this game is kindof doomed. Anyone competent is either killed (kavdragon) or ignored. Tonight the mafia will snipe a few more vets. In addition, the leaders that have emerged Flamewheel and DocH are not suited for their roles. Flamewheel because his role PM is not green or blue, DocH because he screws over any town he is in. If I were you Gmarshal, I would count on my bodyguards. Once the town calms down, use your immunity to push for a lynch on the clear mafia. I would, but I am "obviously mafia" for claiming to oppose an assassin, and in generally for trying to stop the mob from being stupid. Oh, and for making every effort to get myself elected as a DT, that too is "anti town". I dont know what else to do for this people. | ||
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On April 15 2011 10:17 kevconsim wrote: Ya know i started by doing that but i dont trust you. you dont trust the assassin and confirmed liar? SHAME ON YOU! You must be scum! horrible, horrible scum! Trust the liar, NOW! or he might tell the town he DTed you and make you out to be mafia! | ||
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Im tired of helping, I've spent the last 48 hours helping only to have the assassin who wants the town to medic him step in here and try one last desperate gambit, which *should* have been laughed off, in any reasonable world. Instead the town is sheeping him. Fine, I'll hold off from posting till I have something constructive to say. | ||
GMarshal
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What we know from today is pretty clear. FW has been caught lying of being a dt. His fake claim of his role was debunked and yet he is still being listened to. The general consensus is that he is indeed an assassin. Now. Why would an Assassin push to have someone killed? Because his only shot at winning is getting one lynched, and killing the other in the night. The person accused not only role claimed a blue role, He claimed a blue role easily proven. Now for clarifications sake, and to point out the massive stupidity of the people reading and going “coag is deff mafia, the assassin says so.” On April 15 2011 09:08 Protactinium wrote: Please read my post. You're just ignoring logic and are building cases off of false assumptions. You were elected based on the premise that you think for yourself and don't sheep town. But clearly you are being tricked by GMarshal's and others' statements and have not taken a step back to evaluate the situation objectively. Let me prove it to you. Right now, you just stated 4 possibilities in your plan: However, there is 1 option you left out. Lets go with your stubborn assumption that I am not a DT, and that I in fact do not know Coagulation's role. If I am not DT, then you forgot the option that Coagulation is actually the Godfather. In this case, Scenario 1 would be false, and would work perfectly for the mafia. GMarshal would not be forced to bus him and will claim that Coagulation is a Vet. The other DTs will stay silent because they have no reason to believe that GMarshal is lying. Thus, Coagulation is saved for another day, town thinks he is "confirmed", and GMarshal is "proven" to be the DT. You did not consider this situation, which shows that you subconsciously believe my DT claim. I have already proven why GMarshal is blatantly lying about being DT. Please evaluate this situation objectively before jumping off a cliff in an attempt to be the town hero. You're trying to convolute things too much. The simplest answer is: I'm a DT, I checked Coagulation, and he is red. Now let us look at this very very carefully. FW has been caught lying. He has also shown to be tunneling a target (which is uncharacteristic of him). He also mentions the possibility of coag being the gf. Now. IF he was a dt, this option would never have to be described. He uses it as a convoluted method to attempt to prove himself. Why, if he was a dt, would he even describe the potential of coag being the gf? He would know for a fact. But you ask yourself, why would I mention this? because he uses the example to prove occams razor. ISSUE BEING. He has been caught lying and fake claiming. The simplest explanation per Occam's razor is that he is scum/assassin. Town has no reason to lie. Especially with a power role such as dt. If your still going "but but" think of it again. Since when would a "DT" in the hands of an experienced player such as FW create a convoluted plan that if he was not elected guarenteed he died. No matter what happens with this lynch, assassins are obligated to hit him. Town vigi's might hit him, mafia might hit him. No matter what, he dies. Who in their right mind, would operate on a plan thats only gain is to get in office. Factor in that he ran for Pardoner. A role that in the hands of an anti town player would lead to potential disaster. Now, normally with all this evidence stacked against someone, you would LaL policy. But since the consensus is that he is an assassin, he gets to live (seriously the fuck?) based on him dying at night. Ok say he dies in the night, that still makes me wonder. Why are we lynching the target of a liar? The target who's alignment can be easily proven by a dt/vig. If he's legit, mafia have to waste shots shooting a veteran, if hes mafia he dies. However, lynching based on the word of a known liar / word of an anti town is simply stupid. Now you would think this would lead to a day of scumhunting. Instead the people who are challenging this obviously anti town movement are viewed as scum. Are you guys seriously not following this? Step back and think this through. But now its too late for that. You have let a third party derail the thread for an entire day while getting no closer to actually lynching anyone. Its up to me to save you from yourselves again. I'm not going to allow a lynch led by anti-town forces go through. No chance in hell. If you persist in this you leave me no choice. You wanted an interdependent mayor and pardoner, you got them, if town persists with this stupidity I will pardon coag, and see the assassin flip tonight, when he flips black you will thank me. I've discovered I'm tired of fighting for sheep. Become wolves or let them devour you. | ||
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
I'm done discussing, you have till midnight to reconsider. ##Unvote: Coagulation ##Vote: Airblade Orange | ||
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On April 15 2011 10:47 kitaman27 wrote: GMarshal, if you pardon, you are guaranteed to get lynched tomorrow. Don't even think about it. I'm not letting the assassin win. Hang me if you must. I ran on policy and principles. I will uphold those now. FIGHT FOR THE TOWN! | ||
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On April 15 2011 10:51 LSB wrote: Don't pardon. Let coag die, it will green me and you, and red Flamewheel I'm not willing to be reasonable about this. I am sticking to my guns, if it means I die then so fucking be it. See you in hell fw! I do not lynch on the words of someone who is anti town I do not follow a liar I will not allow the town to do the same while it is in my power to prevent it. This isn't about weather or not coag is scum, I dont give a damn if protac guessed right. This is about fighting for my principles And I will be damned, to the pits of hell, if I go back on my principles. | ||
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
At least I will have played correctly. Sometimes its about more than just winning. | ||
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On April 15 2011 11:18 kitaman27 wrote: Are you trying to get on Ver's "TL Mafia Quiz" or something, because this is not the way you do it. No, the thought didn't even cross my mind. I am not stupid, there are reasons behind what I am doing | ||
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On April 15 2011 11:22 Protactinium wrote: How hypocritical! To you its all about winning. Pardoning is anti-town. That's a principle. Yet you're willing to break it. The reasons for LAL are usually bad. Just look at how you played in XXXVII. And now you decide you're the one who has the moral authority to teach town how to play? Lol. Although I guess since you're mafia I can accept this more as a "I want to win" rather than actual advice. Please try not to pass it off that way though. You'll give people the wrong impression. You will *not* talk to me about principle. Not you. | ||
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
My policy is fuck over cheaters and then worry about my win condition, screw LaL, screw survival. When people cheated the game stopped mattering. ##Pardon: AirbladeOrange. Goodnight, sweethearts, I hope the taste of victory snatched away from you is as bitter as the taste of having the game ruined is for me | ||
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
I played more pro-town this game than when I'm town. But you people are blind GG | ||
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On April 15 2011 13:55 DoctorHelvetica wrote: He tried to pardon himself based on a loophole in the rhetoric of the pardoner description. A literal interpretation of the rules. Save it for the postgame. | ||
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On April 20 2011 02:38 bumatlarge wrote: Oh dude, steam account > bum_at_large Add me broski [spectral voice] Solace19 on steam [/spectral voice] | ||
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On April 21 2011 11:24 ilovejonn wrote: Still 3 hours til night. This is getting boring fast. [spectral voice] this is why you don't lynch me, I keep things interesting! [/spectral voice] | ||
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
Anyway, I dont mind the screwup with the pardoner, mistakes happen, the important part of it is that we learn from them. If its any consolation, I like this new pardoner quite a bit, and I'd like to see it in another game, its fun to have in there, although I'd prefer that it lynch the runner up rather than end the day entirely. Also, awards to chaoser for having me pegged from the start, DropBear and AO for trying hard for me, which is not always easy in a situation as demoralizing as this my lynch seemed day two, and an award to bum for being a battle-medic, I was convinced you were a vet trying to get me to shoot you. Either way gg wp. Its a shame my first run as a mafia team leader ended up with my team being crushed. EDIT: Huge thanks to BC for advising me thought, his advice and guidance kept me from messing up any worse than I did | ||
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On April 24 2011 12:42 Jackal58 wrote: I had you and Coag both pegged. And then Proact totally fucked over my ability to proceed. I simply could not go along with a liar with 3rd party motivations. Damnation he pissed me off. If he had picked anybody but Coag. Coag wanted me to lynch you if I got mayor and shoot you night one otherwise, I thought it a poor idea. As far as allying with the assassin, I couldn't understand how any townie in his right mind could even think of it, it was just mindboggling that an assassin got *any* support, at all. | ||
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On April 24 2011 12:49 kitaman27 wrote: I'm still kinda confused on how the pardoner ability was supposed to work. It said in the description the pardoner was not immune to lynch, but from how BrownBear described it, it sounds like it would be impossible to lynch the pardoner with his pardon in hand. Just curious, why the dt claim? Did you have plans for it? Seems tough to pull off. I needed to prove 100% protac was lying, and that seemed to me the only way I could "know" that was how DTs worked, and yes I had plans for the DT claim, including bussing one of our team members and proceeding to lead the town in circles. Really though my only mildly successful plan was "clearing" AO by accusing him multiple times | ||
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On April 24 2011 12:53 chaoser wrote: I'd rather have an assassin in office and have control over his KP/check over a red. Simple as that And this is where I disagree, you have no control over his KP or his check, he is going to use them however he damn well pleases, what are you going to do if he dosn't follow your orders? lynch him? Thats a wasted town kp which you *need* to use on scum, not on 100% guaranteed not mafia. Thats why I thought it was utter madness , you just ensured 3 kp are going to play out with no way of controlling them, more likely than not they'll end up hitting lurking blues. | ||
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On April 24 2011 14:34 AirbladeOrange wrote: GM - Thanks for pushing to get me lynched so hard. It probably helped me survive as long as I did with good town cred. I figured I'd either get you lynched before I died and then I'd be able to use it for town cred "see I've been trying to get him lynched since day 1, since when does mafia tunnel on teammates?" or I'd die before I got you killed and then you'd look good In retrospect I'm glad I died first, I hate bussing teammates ^_^ | ||
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