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GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
If town wants you as pardoner, then there is nothing I can do to stop them, obviously, but for the record my previous argument that if we elect you we have no means of controlling you other than wasting a lynch still stands. I don't want to make you die night one. but I will not vote for someone who I think does not have the towns best interests at heart, sorry. | ||
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GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
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GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
Regarding my "I'll lynch the most inactive player" I think I'm going to redact that to "I'll lynch the player who I feel is lurking the most" by lurking I mean posting content-less posts while trying to appear pro town. Is that ok with everyone? Or would you guys prefer if I just hit the most inactive person? | ||
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GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On April 11 2011 03:38 kitaman27 wrote: Mayor should take a stand. If you "do not think he has the town's best interest at heart", then you should oppose him. You're trying to make sure you don't upset anyone, rather than trying to lead. The thing is I really am unsure, if he were town he'd 100% have my vote for mayor, as he is scary good, but I have a really hard time believing his story that he isn't in this to win it. You know what, fuck it, you are right, I need to step up and take a fucking stance Don't vote a third party assassin into office! Dont allow someone who has no incentive to help us win take over a town role. Give the role to a green (or better a blue), any green, it dosn't have to be me. But the town should most certainly not be putting a neutral in office, after all when he is protected he no longer needs us. My old points stand sorry for the flip flopping guys, I forgot that I can't afford to be as indecisive as I used to be. oh, and kita, since Chaoser retracted his run for pardoner I guess I can make you my running mate ##Vote: Kitaman27 | ||
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GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
As of right now the two lurker lynches I am considering are jackal and wiggles, I'd like to hear thoughts for and against. | ||
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GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On April 11 2011 04:16 AirbladeOrange wrote: I'm thinking about voting for you for Mayor actually. But only if you will take me out. You can run on the kill airbladeorange platform. The fuck? AO, you are making absolutely no sense. @Jackal, yes I *did* fuck up in XXXVII, but do I get no credit for guessing enough of the scum team day 1 in Insane 2 to make them kill me? Also as far as your lurking goes, I've only seen you make 4-5 real posts... | ||
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GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On April 11 2011 04:44 tnkted wrote: We can't have protract be mayor. If he plays to his win condition at all, we're left with a mayor who people will constantly second-guess, whose three votes will almost certainly be countered by three switched votes from players who will vote the opposite way of him. In addition, the controversy his every vote will cause will give mafia an excellent opportunity to slip between the cracks and promote conflict in the town. Regardless of whether or not he is the best candidate, electing him would be extremely detrimental to town, if for no other reason than the fact that people are so divided over this. Personally, I don't think he's actually demonstrated to me that hes really the assassin and not the GF framing himself black. If he's who he says he is, then he is absolutely capable of pulling such a trick over on us. Who could possibly counterclaim? Another assassin? They don't know if he's one of them or not. In fact, if I was the godfather and a vet, this is precisely the strategy I would use to get elected mayor. I'd tell everyone I am 'so sick of mafia, I just want to make this game fun' and I would rely on my reputation to convince people that I know what I'm doing. I think I made clear in the previous earlygame (insane 2) my opinion on relying on reputation when I opposed Kav's mayoral campaign. However, he is a tried and proven player and an excellent analyzer. As such, I am tempted to keep him alive... but on a leash. He can't be in a position of power, but to lose such an excellent player this early in the game would be pretty painful. Nonetheless, we are presented with an opportunity here. We have a known target. We can be 100% certain that if we don't elect Protract he is going to be hit tonight. Tnkted's Plan We don't elect Protract. Instead, we use him as bait. Watcher should watch Protract. In the morning, you should post everyone who visited him. Any assassins that visit protract in the night will be revealed to each other (something I'm certain they don't want) and any mafia trying to hit our strongest player will be revealed as well. Of course, we reveal our watcher in this plan, but is it worth it to the assassins to trade their anonymity for one kill? It would completely end their parts in the game by the second night, and would turn an enjoyable game of lurking in the shadows into certain death. Thoughts? Three major points, 1, why do we care if protract lives? You just said you think he could be a really ballsy GF, or what he claims, either way we dont care who takes him out. 2, why do we want to reveal assassins again? We should not care about them, and any resources we waste identifying other assassins are resources not spent protecting pro town players/catching scum. 3.) Assassins can't hit night 1 anyway so putting a watcher on him would be a waste unless scum is stupid and hits them. Basicaly, why would we waste resources on him. I've thought better of my intial reaction of offering him medics. If he isn't pro-town then we have no need to expend resources on him. there are only two reasonable positions here, you either think he is going to help the town and vote him in, or you think he won't and just choose to ignore him from here on out and count on assassins hitting him night 2. Any other plan is wasting town resources that we need to catch scum. | ||
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GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On April 11 2011 05:40 chaoser wrote: No comment. Can we just lynch pandain day 1 like we always joke we will? You know I was seriously considering that... right now he seems like a liability to the town, his claim seems dubious to me, I actually fear he could just be a vanilla townie claiming DT for shits and giggles. However its most likely a waste, the mafia will take care of him (unless he is the gf, in which case we lynch him day 2 ^_^) I also think that using the BG's as bait is retarded, especialy considering that if you put a watcher on the the bg, he is going to see the other watchers, any stray medics, and any assassins/mafia hitting them. congrats, the watcher now has to give out a list containing quite a few blue roles to get a single scum, wonderful, glad its such a well thought out plan. | ||
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GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On April 11 2011 06:01 Pandain wrote: actually you know what. IT would still work. I just don't run. I'm not dt Ok, as part of my campaign I announced my belief in LaL, right? Well here is why, if he is a DT he just fucked himself over by claiming, if he is a townie then I dont want him around claiming who knows what, and if he is a GF then I want him dead. Thanks for hurting the town Pandain, I'm really, really tempted to make you my lynch. As a townie or a DT you had no reason to lie to get yourself elected, you could have run on your own merits by presenting the expose the bg's plan. Retarded as it was it showed thought. Lying however just threw the town into a circle of wifom, now even with a DT check we cannot be sure of your alignment, as I am inclined to believe you are the GF. if you aren't then scum is likely to try to kill you on the basis of you possibly being a DT, which means we have to waste valuable medics on you. If you dont die then the town has to worry about you being a GF in later lynches. FUCK PANDIAN, WHY? | ||
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GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On April 11 2011 06:05 DoctorHelvetica wrote: so vote for me and put protact in as pardoner so we can at least force him to use his powers for us without wasting a significant role on him imo we can't "force" him to do anything without hurting the town... we've gone through this, the only conceivable plan of forcing him to do anything wastes far too many town resources. We can *hope* he does what he says he will, and I'm not voting based on *hope*. Either way, I'm done arguing about pro. | ||
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GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
Kav, I think that your call that Dr.H is scum is flat out wrong, there's no way (in my mind) that the scum team would put out two vets like that day one, especially considering one of them is a really, really influential and powerful player. Still if you get mayor which of them do you think you would lynch? Tbh I have a town read on Dr.H for his mindless aggression, it reminds me sort of coag, except perhaps more refined. | ||
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GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On April 11 2011 06:34 M0nsterChef wrote: ##Vote: Gmarshal who the hell is this and why is he voting for me? He has no posts in the thread, right? | ||
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GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On April 11 2011 07:22 DoctorHelvetica wrote: i have a plan and a reason for doing what i do ok trust me mac daddy curiously town lynched takster on a phrase just like this in insane 2. Did you read the part of my campaign where I tell people to provide reasons? Specifically the part about we ignore people who don't explain their reasons? | ||
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GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
Cool, I'll continue to ignore any of your posts that fail to provide reasoning then ^_^ | ||
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GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
Also I hate to say this, but that is a major example of a noncontributing post that looks like a fucking huge wall of text imo, because it is actualy irrelevant to the current situation, it in no way helps the newbies choose a mayor or make any major decisions at the moment. I applaud the effort though, and I agree with the majority of the ideas contained therein | ||
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GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On April 11 2011 07:32 M0nsterChef wrote: I read the thread and made a vote based on who I think I deserves the role the most. Am I not allowed to vote? What you are not allowed to do is vote without providing reasoning. Why do you think I deserve the role over, say Kav? | ||
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GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On April 11 2011 07:46 Kavdragon wrote: My current suspect list is Protactinium Chaoser DrHelevetica Chaoser gets added because he was sheeping behind some really bad ideas, adding to the flames of arguments that shouldn't have ever started, and acting generally scummy. I have no analysis yet, so it still a lowish level read, but it's still a read. Oddly enough, GMarshal has not shown himself to be clearly townie to me, and I'm not sure why. It just seems like he could be repeating his townie meta, or it could just be that I'm really used to it being super obvious that he is town. Not a FoS yet, but something that I think is odd. He usually has plans, and that's strangely missing. You'd think that he'd have them since he's running for mayor. Odd. I'd have more plans, but this is a no PM game, with pretty standard roles, I thought my way in circles and most of the clever plans that occurred to me are pretty disruptive to the town, (and yes I toyed with a couple... interesting... ideas). Most of my "plans" this game are reduced to providing guidance to the blues using a limited list. I mean we could try my plan where every morning everyone provides results as if they were a watcher, a tracker and a DT, but I thought that mafia could probably use that to identify the roles so it was a poor idea. Still, I'm happy you called me out on it, townies should immediatly call out their suspicions so that if they die we can go back and see "hey he thought GM was scum and died, lets look at GM more closely" My only worry about you in power kav is that your 3rd party play in insane 2 was so good that Im afraid you could be scum and be getting away with it here. | ||
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GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
Also Eiii slipped up and said there were three earlier too, meaning he is one of the Assassins ^_^ | ||
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GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Don't worry too much, this shouldn't be as active as insane, because, well, Insane was Insane. Hopefully people won't spam that much in this game, and I'd even like to put in a request that people try to limit their posting unless they have something relevant/meaningful to add to the conversation. People who just quote others, and say "I agree", or repeat the same things as others have already brought up, are perfect examples of "contributing without contributing", and that's a scum-tell. You know this is a great way to "contribute without contributing" you state a commonly known scum tell and say no spam please... well, duh. Still I can put this off as directing new players + Show Spoiler + Well this isn't technically night because no one takes actions. That said, there isn't much to talk about because we can't start mayoral campaigns. This means we're limited to mostly talking about general strategy and trying to establish a town policy, like no spam/try to contribute and add to the conversation, and other guidelines we'd like to put into place. Rehash of basic ideas, check! + Show Spoiler + Well if you're posting your own thoughts, then that's meaningful AND relevant, haha. But 9000 posts of cats in top hats and monocles wouldn't be. And saying "I agree" after every post isn't really contributing. If you want to agree with someone, at least add your own thought process as to why, and give some kind of explanation. That way you can look for mafia trying to make stuff up too. Spam is bad! No duh, but then again people were posting this kind of nonsense all night 0 so its not indicative + Show Spoiler + My thoughts on inactives: Don't lynch inactives, lynch lurkers. I guess it depends on your definition of inactive, but inactive for me, is someone who's not even playing the game, and has little to no posts. For me, the better choice is to pressure lurkers, who come in and post a couple times, then disappear. I think these are the people we should really be afraid of. They're a lot more dangerous, because by maintaining only a slight activity threshold to appease the town, they're easily able to hide amongst the masses. So personally, I'd rather lynch the guy who comes in twice a cycle to post a couple sentences, than Johnny-No-Posts who's not even playing the game. Lurkers want to hide behind a minimum of activity, inactives aren't even playing. (<--- My Take) I'm going to watch for people acting like that. well this *looks* like a contribution, but its a repost of an argument that town agrees on since time immemorial, its like posting "you should build drones" in response to "how do I macro better?" + Show Spoiler + Also, I think mafia would be more prone to trying to manipulate the town, whereas assassins would probably leave town be while focusing on finding the other assassins. So if you have two players kind've the same, but one is trying to manipulate the lynches and the other isn't, then you can differentiate them. an actual point! Yay! ok, nothing more to see here + Show Spoiler + As others have said, I think voting a black in is lose-lose. There's no guarantee he'll do anything to really help us, and then we lose our mayor/pardoner. something I agree with, fair enough Also, as far as medicing him goes, I think we can just drop the discussion on that until Day 2. Assassins can't do anything night one, so unless mafia wants to hit him, there's no need to waste a medic on him. If he still wants to negotiate for kills later, then we can do that when he's actually in a position to kill. However, just to add to that quickly, he's actually useless to town if he's not mayor/pardoner, because if he says he's hitting a town chosen target, mafia can just RB him, because he's outed himself publicly. So, we don't want him in office, and he can't help us out of office. again a really valid point, I have exactly one objection to it, the fact that after concluding that he is useless out of office he still talks about negotiating with the assassin, its an interesting contradiction So, overall, I don't think he can help town much, besides giving all the other assassins a non-town target for night 2. Right now, I'm most comfortable picking either GMarshal or Dr.H for mayor. I've gotten the strongest town reads from them, and they've both shown they're not afraid of trying to look for scum and lead town in the right direction. Yay! ^ My thoughts. + Show Spoiler + Don't hit the most inactive, that's stupid. The most inactive is likely not even playing the game, or they're just going to get Modkilled. If we want to do a policy lynch on activity, do it on a lurker. You call a lurker someone contributing without contributing, but with the amount of newer players in the game, that might not be the best deciding factor for day 1. I'd say lynch someone who was really active earlier in the game, like pregame, or night 0, and who has completely disappeared with only a minimum of posts by the end of day 1. This is a decent point, +1 townie point for it kind sir + Show Spoiler + How am I lurking? I'm just not rehashing the exact same points as everyone else over and over again. I was going to bring up some of the reasons I thought a black mayor wouldn't be optimal, but they were already raised by others, so instead of just repeating what's already been said three times I mentioned that protac isn't going to be useful to us at all if he doesn't get elected, so we shouldn't waste medics on him, just leave him for the other assassins to use hits on, keeping them off of town Alright this is a fair defense of my "lurking" accusation, however in his previous posts he made exactly one good point, that being about the assassin + Show Spoiler + And now that I think of it, there's other assassin, who may or may not be using their KP on the same night, on different or similar targets. So, there's no way to tell if mafia used all four hits or not. Meaning, it's easy for red to use one of their KPs as the "assassin" KP. I do believe this was already mentioned, neutral read on this post + Show Spoiler + The assassins are going to turn into the Item Game of Insane 2.... I was scum that game, so what I did, was try to keep everyone focused on the item game and away from actual analysis. I see the same thing starting to happen now, where town is going to latch onto the assassin game and get too distracted from everything else when it should be a non-issue... this is a very, very good point and one I agree with, +1 townie point for him Anyways, Why giving out both the names of the bodyguards is not a very good idea: At their core, the bodyguard and pardoner are supposed to be very powerful roles that we would like to get a hold of and use for the benefit of the town. When used correctly, these roles seem like they'd be more than capable of wreaking havoc on the mafia and bringing town victory. yeah, we know this, this is kind of filler If no mafia are elected into office, and they are not confident that they can sway the mayor easily, the best course of action for the reds is to kill the mayor/pardoner. In order to do so, they must first kill the two bodyguards. These bodyguards are unrevealed to the town and mafia, so first mafia need to find them as well. again, I think this is obvious Now, you, Pandain, want to reveal the bodyguards to everyone. Why? To ostensibly put trackers on them in order to catch any assassins/mafia who want to take a shot at the mayor. However, doing this is cringe-worthy to say the least. So why wouldn't it work out? Mafia have four KP, and there are supposedly two other assassins. This means, that if there are no medics, that mafia can kill the two bodyguards as well as the mayor and pardoner in one fell swoop. So, what we'd achieve, is the entire public office dead, traded at the cost of one mafia revealed. The only way to counteract that, would be if we now, IN ADDITION to our trackers, put medic protection on the bodyguards as well. So, you're asking us to focus all of our blue power on two people. But then we just get into a WIFOM spiral where we need to decide to protect either the bodyguards to the detriment of all other pro-town players or other players to the detriment of our bodyguards and mayor/pardoner. This is an actual good point +1 town point In my opinion, this becomes too convoluted to even work with, when compared to keeping the bodyguards known only to the mayor/pardoner. In other words, a bad idea. + Show Spoiler + Forgot assassin. I'd be willing to let him in as pardoner, but not mayor. Dr.H/protac interesting, Wiggles said "I thought a black mayor wouldn't be optimal" but now he is ok with a black pardoner... it is noteworthy, and if kav's theory that Pro is actualy red holds true then very, very revealing + Show Spoiler + No, but it looks highly suspicious that you don't post any thoughts/opinions (or anything at all really) since the game has started, and then come in and vote. What are your thoughts on the current situation? Why do you like GMarshal the best for mayor? Why don't you like the other candidates? same questions I ask, after I asked them... slightly scummy, but it could be down to simultaneous posts Conclusion: Lurking he adds a total of two new ideas by my count and his best post is the one focused on not exposing the bgs, I'm having a hard time labeling him as anything. Hence I suggest we all keep an eye on him and make him post more, I'm leaning slightly more towards scum than town atm, but I need more to analyze | ||
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GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On April 11 2011 08:58 DoctorHelvetica wrote: lol mr wiggles gives me the strongest town read Why? or is it your gut? | ||
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