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I'll post some PM's
Alignment Claiming
+ Show Spoiler +Original Message From kitaman27: Hehe ok. Show nested quote +Original Message From LSB: Didn't I give tinked a different PM? And its bad for three reasons. 1) Blues didn't get the PM, and it doesn't account for people getting different PMs 2) Its not foolproof, mafia/sk can easily easily catch on. They should have figured out the 'sit' keyword by now. 3) I gave tinked a different PM (I think) he got the miller one. If anyone complains, how bout we reply "sit down, nbd" Original Message From kitaman27:
Are we allowing the quoting of mod alignment pms? I know some of them are worded differently, but that kinda seems like a dirty way to confirm oneself.
Mafia QQing
+ Show Spoiler +Original Message From Qatol: Seems like a very strong mechanic, but whatever. Regardless, I think what you're doing is fine. The mafia seem to be at fault for their troubles. Show nested quote +Original Message From LSB: Each team is given 10 millions Kronos. On the event that one team reaches 20 million Kronos, they are given the opportunity to buy the names of most of the people in the black market (2 reds, 2 blues, 2 blacks) The blacks were able to pull together 10 mil from their RPG sale, killing Annul, and swindling the Mafia, bringing them to 23 mil, in which the bought the names. Original Message From Qatol: Something about a mechanic where half their team is revealed for 10 million? Original Message From LSB: Well the black market was this contract style game. There are three factions right, the blacks, the blues, the reds. I granted them access to the black market where the factions could meet and trade items. I gave each of the factions a few items, the catch being that they couldn't use the items themselves. What the blacks got were RPGs, these were 1 time KPs that could be doublestaked to go through bulletproof. Day 1, the blacks decided to host an auction for all 3 of the RPGs, they started it off at 6 million which the mafia bid for, and then the blues ran in and sniped the auction for 7 million. I don't know why RoL would be mad at the RPGs... maybe his teammates weren't active enough to bid higher? Original Message From Qatol: What's this about an RPG sale? RoL is saying that is the thing he's mad about.... Original Message From LSB: 1. The controversy last night was this First, how I decide the order of the night action. I group night actions into three categories, modifying night actions (these modify other people's abilities), normal night actions, and KP The modifying night actions happen first, then the normal night actions, and finally any KP that exists take effect. Each action in each category happens simultaneously. Now, on to night 2. Tnked. Town bus driver Rol. Mafia Puppetmaster. Is able to control the target of peoples actions. Both Busing and Puppetting are modifying actions. This mean that they would happen before everything else Last night the mafia set up this situation. They fed drugs to Tnked so tnked could have two night actions and they controlled him so they could bus two people. Normally Tnked would be mind controlled. Even though both actions would 'happen simultaneously', they can still effect each other. However, the problem was that Tnked had anticipated this. I'll take us back to day 2. Earlier in the day, Tnked contacted me wondering what would happen if he bussed himself with another person and was mind controlled. I was at a situation here. If Tnked's bus happened first, the mind control would have been bused to a different person, messing up it's effect. If the mind control happened first, Tnked's action would be messed up. Considering I could not prefer one action over the other, I told Tnked that physics would break and both actions would fail due to a conflict in time. Later in the day Mafia asked me the question, "Can I mindcontrol the bus driver." I said, yes you can mindcontrol the bus driver. They sent in the actions, and then day 3 rolled around. Before day 3 occured, me and kitaman sat down and discussed the actions carefully together, we both agreed that we should follow the decision set forth to tnked and decided that the mafia plan was a bust. Now, suddenly things fell to pieces, Rol/Meapak got on and started yelling at me about how "since they could mindcontrol the bus driver, obviously the bus driver's actions happen first" and RoL ragequit because of that. Luckly I had pandain who was interested as being a replacement so that situation was solved. Currently the mafia team seems to have given up. Especially since this other contract orientated mini game I had going, the black market. The mafia lost in the mini game so the identities of Amber[light] and Orgolove were revealed. They took this cue to start suggesting to each other to just give up on the game. As a host, I'm concerned if there are members on the mafia who want to play, but are disappointed that their teammates aren't trying. In addition, the lack of a mafia team would really screw with balance and rob the third party of their chance of victory. Original Message From Qatol: I'm not sure I understand exactly what has been going on. I have literally not followed your thread at all. Could you clarify the abilities that are involved with this? Original Message From LSB: So I'm facing the fact that certain parts of the Mafia team are thinking of resigning. This stems from a few things 1) Their Night 2 actions did not go through because tnked anticipated their actions. Here is the mafia quicktopic http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/TudFTADbJkmv (Just start reading about from Coeurl 137 03-30-2011 10:51 PM ET (US) 2) Loosing the black market game and having two of their member's being revealed as a result, and trying to use this as an excuse to give up. If you want a point of view from the Mafia's side, you can talk to RoL, who ragequit after finding out that his night 2 actions did not go through. Now the reason why I'm approaching you is that I don't want to make someone who doesn't want to play play. Please note, it's not like other people are having trouble. I'm just concerned since the Mafia team (mostly) isn't putting an effort enough in thread for others to play. I'm considering revamping midgame the thread, allowing mafia members to resign and then combining the remaining Mafia team with the 3rd party team, moving everyone into a new thread and starting Day 4 afresh. Same roles, just one enemy. I would like your advice on this. Thank you.
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On April 08 2011 11:54 CubEdIn wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2011 11:53 kitaman27 wrote:On April 08 2011 11:42 CubEdIn wrote:
You guys should look at the game from town's perspective. Really.
So many things went to shit in the last 2-3 days.
Insanious dies because why the fuck not. Blacks get RPGs and are able to use them.
Town still has a shot to win? No matter, blacks get 4 kps during the last night!
?!?
I'm a sad, sad, panda. I feel that everything I did and all the time I spent was in vain.
I think I'll opt out of the other game and take a break. Cube, I understand you are frustrated, but try to think of it from another perspective. You were a mod confirmed town bulletproof detective. Rarely, will you see town given a role so powerful. Insanious did not die randomly. He was lynched by the arena game. Blacks were not given RPG's out of the blue. They won them as a result of the item game. You act as if we were conspiring against town or something. You certainly played well, but a town victory was no way near impossible. No, I get that, it's all bum's fault. But I don't get how they managed to get 4 kps in the last night. (1 on lanaia, 1 on jonn = kav's KP and then the knife, but the two on deconduo?!)
They had a single kp on lanaia. Upon her death, Kav's assassin role requirement was met and he received a single additional kp to use during the day on john. As it was 2v2, neither side would be able to pull off a lynch so the game would go to night cycle where black holds the only kp to use on deconduo.
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On April 08 2011 11:56 CubEdIn wrote:
and Insanious did die randomly (no?) since he was confirmed town and the bot (as town) would have had no reason to vote for him. I don't know what the play was there, but it was pretty obvious that pandain was the red after the first kill (since ins was green).
Pandain got a higher score in tetris than Insanious did, so he won his vote. Pandain made him vote Insanious.
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On April 08 2011 11:57 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2011 11:54 CubEdIn wrote:On April 08 2011 11:53 kitaman27 wrote:On April 08 2011 11:42 CubEdIn wrote:
You guys should look at the game from town's perspective. Really.
So many things went to shit in the last 2-3 days.
Insanious dies because why the fuck not. Blacks get RPGs and are able to use them.
Town still has a shot to win? No matter, blacks get 4 kps during the last night!
?!?
I'm a sad, sad, panda. I feel that everything I did and all the time I spent was in vain.
I think I'll opt out of the other game and take a break. Cube, I understand you are frustrated, but try to think of it from another perspective. You were a mod confirmed town bulletproof detective. Rarely, will you see town given a role so powerful. Insanious did not die randomly. He was lynched by the arena game. Blacks were not given RPG's out of the blue. They won them as a result of the item game. You act as if we were conspiring against town or something. You certainly played well, but a town victory was no way near impossible. No, I get that, it's all bum's fault. But I don't get how they managed to get 4 kps in the last night. (1 on lanaia, 1 on jonn = kav's KP and then the knife, but the two on deconduo?!) They had a single kp on lanaia. Upon her death, Kav's assassin role requirement was met and he received a single additional kp to use during the day on john. As it was 2v2, neither side would be able to pull off a lynch so the game would go to night cycle where black holds the only kp to use on deconduo.
Oh I see, because in the mafia thread you told them they can't win @ 1v1. That's why I thought they can't win @ 2v2 either.
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So Eiii killed amber then, right? I thought you were legitimately giving someone a KP. I was so confused. Then you said "she" so I was all "WTF did I get a KP?"
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On April 08 2011 11:57 Kavdragon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2011 11:56 CubEdIn wrote:
and Insanious did die randomly (no?) since he was confirmed town and the bot (as town) would have had no reason to vote for him. I don't know what the play was there, but it was pretty obvious that pandain was the red after the first kill (since ins was green). Pandain got a higher score in tetris than Insanious did, so he won his vote. Pandain made him vote Insanious.
rofl. still a bit unfair that bot didn't get a say in the arena game. as a townie, you wouldn't vote for a confirmed townie.
I mean, I get why it worked out that way, but in that stage of the game, no matter what alignment the bot had, it would've voted out pandain, were he a human.
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On April 08 2011 11:59 Lanaia wrote:
So Eiii killed amber then, right? I thought you were legitimately giving someone a KP. I was so confused. Then you said "she" so I was all "WTF did I get a KP?"
Yeah it's pretty much fail that amber used his KP on town.
I don't see why he'd side with the blacks when he could've gotten back at them. 
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and i'm not raging or anything, i agree that my role was op and that we would've won if it weren't for bum "what time is it again?" atlarge. but i just got the role i didn't make it up.
i'm just trying to figure out what town could've done better, because if you only blame the RPGs, then mafia could've bought those, and then town would've been 100% screwed?
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United States22154 Posts
On April 08 2011 12:03 CubEdIn wrote:
and i'm not raging or anything, i agree that my role was op and that we would've won if it weren't for bum "what time is it again?" atlarge. but i just got the role i didn't make it up.
i'm just trying to figure out what town could've done better, because if you only blame the RPGs, then mafia could've bought those, and then town would've been 100% screwed?
RPGs were intended to enable the mafia to kill the black, which is why the reds *should* have bought them and gone black hunting one night.
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#TLMafia in quakenet for a post game party!
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Mafia shot me on the wrong night .
I was saving that power for just such a night as this.
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On April 08 2011 12:05 GMarshal wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2011 12:03 CubEdIn wrote:
and i'm not raging or anything, i agree that my role was op and that we would've won if it weren't for bum "what time is it again?" atlarge. but i just got the role i didn't make it up.
i'm just trying to figure out what town could've done better, because if you only blame the RPGs, then mafia could've bought those, and then town would've been 100% screwed? RPGs were intended to enable the mafia to kill the black, which is why the reds *should* have bought them and gone black hunting one night.
obviously the reds had a different agenda.
# of blacks killed by reds = 0
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Did i not say kav was black
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Alright enough, I sent in the stuff at 10:05 and kita told me it was too late. My head wasn't completely in the game at that time and I didnt think it would be that big of an issue. I was wrong. My bad. The only thing I did was prolong the game and made blacks the victor in complete ignorance. Im sorry if I wasted anyone's time during that stretch. I never went against my win condition, it was just at that particular moment that mafia wasn't prioritized.
It's insane mafia, and for its reputation, I think LSB and kitaman did a fantastic job setting everything up to make for an enjoyably insane game. I wouldn't read too much into the balance.
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We didnt know we could kill the blacks with rpg's we thought the only way to kill them was lynch so we didnt even think about it
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Cause we never told you, did we?
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On April 08 2011 12:08 bumatlarge wrote:
Alright enough, I sent in the stuff at 10:05 and kita told me it was too late. My head wasn't completely in the game at that time and I didnt think it would be that big of an issue. I was wrong. My bad. The only thing I did was prolong the game and made blacks the victor in complete ignorance. Im sorry if I wasted anyone's time during that stretch. I never went against my win condition, it was just at that particular moment that mafia wasn't prioritized.
It's insane mafia, and for its reputation, I think LSB and kitaman did a fantastic job setting everything up to make for an enjoyably insane game. I wouldn't read too much into the balance.
But you did it twice!
+ Show Spoiler +I'm just joshing. It's ok. + Show Spoiler +
though I'm definitely making you mayor when I'm scum
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On April 08 2011 11:50 Kavdragon wrote:
List of OP's:
Town:
Allowed to post PM's from MODs
Instantly confirmed six townies (Blues + BG's) Plus those in the item game.
Tons of BA roles (like Beneather)
Black:
BP
Red:
NOTHING (Sorry guys, you kinda were screwed)
The black market could have been won by anyone. While blacks may have had an advantage because of the BP, they also had BOTH factions trying to kill them. (Reds and Blues had to kill Black to win BM) The fact that we got away with selling out RPG's and not having them shot was a BIG fail by town. You're mistakes made us OP.
To add on to this. For IG, if the town wins they have confirmed townies, but if the reds/blacks win they lose members.
Being able to QUOTE EXACT PM'S FROM MODS was really really bad. It's terrible to allow that because it leads photoshop, and role doctoring contests which is just stupid. Not to mention if anyone picks up on the obvious lies it outs mafia/blacks easily. I thought allowing MOD PM's to be abused was a really poor decision.
Making Coagulation's role DT+ Item was really really weird and unnecessary. The item game was already heavily town favored since ALL check roles/threat of check roles can be focused on 6 players which gives an unfair advantage to the town in that scenario.
The mechanic of the King and the Blue circle completely contradicted one another. The king was supposed to become mayor for +1 powers, but the blue circle should claim 100% of the time in that scenario and push one of them into office. That get's the town, not only a confirmed circle, but one with a confirmed voice that can't be shut up. The king had ABSOLUTELY no chance of ever getting elected into office, therefore making their role simply about not being killed by the assassin, which is stupid.
As for the black market game. I think the whole "get 20 million, win the game" idea was really stupid. Including the Item Game it outed 3.5/6 mafia players if reds lost both games. It only left the mind controller, and underboss, as well as the godfather (half?) unrevealed. At that point it just comes down to who can kill who the fastest. Which is just stupid.
The black market was also dumb because you gave the mafia vests to trade with. Why would the mafia EVER want to make people bulletproof? Look at it this way. As red you can't trade with the blacks because, well fuck they are already bulletproof. So you are boned, and you REALLY don't want to trade with the blues because you desperately want all confirmed townies dead.
On that note, way too many confirmed townie roles in the game. From remaining IG players, to blue circles, to zombies. It get's a little overbearing having so many targets you HAVE to kill as mafia, especially with only 2KP.
Now on to what was bad about the mafia, since I think I covered about everything else. One. The puppeteer should override EVERYTHING. The same with role block. This means it should outrank a bus driver bus driving himself. However a bus driver shouldn't even be able to do that because it completely breaks the role. You didn't even know what to do when you got both action sets in. The bus driver busing himself creates WAY too many problems, and OP's the shit out of the role, especially when you allow him to bus drive the mayor.
The mafia drug runner was a really shitty idea imo. You make someone over powered as shit for 2 day cycles so you can kill them the third? The only way that works even remotely well is if you drug someone then Mind Control them, but you made it so the person who is given the drugs has to willingly take them. Meaning you replace potential creative play with a factor of luck. Killing someone the third day wasn't even worth it.
In conjunction if you made it so the mafia MC could force someone to take the drugs you are truly punishing role claiming like you said you were going to, but the truth is you didn't. With the drug runner/puppeteer roles you had the potential for an AWESOME abuse of anyone who role claims, but you ruined it by allowing a bus driver to bus himself and making the drug runners role more beneficial for whoever he gives the drugs to then it is to the mafia themselves. That role had a cool idea, but was extremely poorly executed.
Lastly the Underboss mechanic was just weird, I dunno what to make of that. So I will leave it at that.
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On April 08 2011 12:08 kevconsim wrote:
Did i not say kav was black
We mighta listened had you actually played the game.
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On April 08 2011 11:56 LSB wrote:I'll post some PM's Alignment Claiming+ Show Spoiler +Original Message From kitaman27: Hehe ok. Show nested quote +Original Message From LSB: Didn't I give tinked a different PM? And its bad for three reasons. 1) Blues didn't get the PM, and it doesn't account for people getting different PMs 2) Its not foolproof, mafia/sk can easily easily catch on. They should have figured out the 'sit' keyword by now. 3) I gave tinked a different PM (I think) he got the miller one. If anyone complains, how bout we reply "sit down, nbd" Original Message From kitaman27:
Are we allowing the quoting of mod alignment pms? I know some of them are worded differently, but that kinda seems like a dirty way to confirm oneself. Original Message From Qatol: Seems like a very strong mechanic, but whatever. Regardless, I think what you're doing is fine. The mafia seem to be at fault for their troubles. Show nested quote +Original Message From LSB: Each team is given 10 millions Kronos. On the event that one team reaches 20 million Kronos, they are given the opportunity to buy the names of most of the people in the black market (2 reds, 2 blues, 2 blacks) The blacks were able to pull together 10 mil from their RPG sale, killing Annul, and swindling the Mafia, bringing them to 23 mil, in which the bought the names. Original Message From Qatol: Something about a mechanic where half their team is revealed for 10 million? Original Message From LSB: Well the black market was this contract style game. There are three factions right, the blacks, the blues, the reds. I granted them access to the black market where the factions could meet and trade items. I gave each of the factions a few items, the catch being that they couldn't use the items themselves. What the blacks got were RPGs, these were 1 time KPs that could be doublestaked to go through bulletproof. Day 1, the blacks decided to host an auction for all 3 of the RPGs, they started it off at 6 million which the mafia bid for, and then the blues ran in and sniped the auction for 7 million. I don't know why RoL would be mad at the RPGs... maybe his teammates weren't active enough to bid higher? Original Message From Qatol: What's this about an RPG sale? RoL is saying that is the thing he's mad about.... Original Message From LSB: 1. The controversy last night was this First, how I decide the order of the night action. I group night actions into three categories, modifying night actions (these modify other people's abilities), normal night actions, and KP The modifying night actions happen first, then the normal night actions, and finally any KP that exists take effect. Each action in each category happens simultaneously. Now, on to night 2. Tnked. Town bus driver Rol. Mafia Puppetmaster. Is able to control the target of peoples actions. Both Busing and Puppetting are modifying actions. This mean that they would happen before everything else Last night the mafia set up this situation. They fed drugs to Tnked so tnked could have two night actions and they controlled him so they could bus two people. Normally Tnked would be mind controlled. Even though both actions would 'happen simultaneously', they can still effect each other. However, the problem was that Tnked had anticipated this. I'll take us back to day 2. Earlier in the day, Tnked contacted me wondering what would happen if he bussed himself with another person and was mind controlled. I was at a situation here. If Tnked's bus happened first, the mind control would have been bused to a different person, messing up it's effect. If the mind control happened first, Tnked's action would be messed up. Considering I could not prefer one action over the other, I told Tnked that physics would break and both actions would fail due to a conflict in time. Later in the day Mafia asked me the question, "Can I mindcontrol the bus driver." I said, yes you can mindcontrol the bus driver. They sent in the actions, and then day 3 rolled around. Before day 3 occured, me and kitaman sat down and discussed the actions carefully together, we both agreed that we should follow the decision set forth to tnked and decided that the mafia plan was a bust. Now, suddenly things fell to pieces, Rol/Meapak got on and started yelling at me about how "since they could mindcontrol the bus driver, obviously the bus driver's actions happen first" and RoL ragequit because of that. Luckly I had pandain who was interested as being a replacement so that situation was solved. Currently the mafia team seems to have given up. Especially since this other contract orientated mini game I had going, the black market. The mafia lost in the mini game so the identities of Amber[light] and Orgolove were revealed. They took this cue to start suggesting to each other to just give up on the game. As a host, I'm concerned if there are members on the mafia who want to play, but are disappointed that their teammates aren't trying. In addition, the lack of a mafia team would really screw with balance and rob the third party of their chance of victory. Original Message From Qatol: I'm not sure I understand exactly what has been going on. I have literally not followed your thread at all. Could you clarify the abilities that are involved with this? Original Message From LSB: So I'm facing the fact that certain parts of the Mafia team are thinking of resigning. This stems from a few things 1) Their Night 2 actions did not go through because tnked anticipated their actions. Here is the mafia quicktopic http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/TudFTADbJkmv (Just start reading about from Coeurl 137 03-30-2011 10:51 PM ET (US) 2) Loosing the black market game and having two of their member's being revealed as a result, and trying to use this as an excuse to give up. If you want a point of view from the Mafia's side, you can talk to RoL, who ragequit after finding out that his night 2 actions did not go through. Now the reason why I'm approaching you is that I don't want to make someone who doesn't want to play play. Please note, it's not like other people are having trouble. I'm just concerned since the Mafia team (mostly) isn't putting an effort enough in thread for others to play. I'm considering revamping midgame the thread, allowing mafia members to resign and then combining the remaining Mafia team with the 3rd party team, moving everyone into a new thread and starting Day 4 afresh. Same roles, just one enemy. I would like your advice on this. Thank you.
Sigh, to clarify this. Meapak made the deal with the blacks, not realizing there was a 7 million RPG sale. This caused them to go over 20million marker. The reason meapak made that deal though was because he wasn't let into the black market in time which caused him to no realize what happened.
I already laid out my reasoning for why your bus driver was retarded.
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EPT
