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Well this is very odd. We can't start with the normal "let's lynch a lurker" mantra because we have a lot less control over who dies. It will be a lot easier to kill annul or originalname than it would be to kill bum, RoL, rean, or myself. This brings up several flaws with voting first then PoPing someone. Unless the vote is unanimous it will be difficult to kill people in the middle, while the town may vote to kill bum, RoL, rean, or I, if one of us is red it would be really easy for the mafia to kill someone else instead. If I'm counting right, originalname only needs two pushes to die but rean needs eight pushes to die. Day one lynches are rarely unanimous so there's a good chance that if everyone PoPs who they vote then there will be multiple options for the mafia to sabotage the lynch.
This has been pretty convoluted so I'll try to sumarize: the person who gets lynched by popular vote may not necessarily be the one to die. I agree whole heartedly that we should always think before we PoP but I'm not sure a voting list will ensure we keep the lynch free of mafia shenanigans. I myself will try and save my PoPs till as late in the day as possible and I'll post in the thread who I plan to PoP throughout the day. If people decide to get up a voting list I'll join in but I just want everyone to remember that just because someone wins (loses  ?) the vote it doesn't mean they will die.
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I changed the starting positions a bit so that there aren't any immediate accidental deaths. Based on the mechanics some people could have gotten screwed  . Good luck!
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This makes things even more interesting because now Cube and GM are good targets for the mafia to knock off if one of their own is in danger. At this point I really don't know what voting will do for us because it will be all to easy for the mafia to interfere. As I said before, if someone goes to the trouble of arranging voting I'll play along but everyone should be aware that this vote is really just ceremonial and the real controlling factor in the lynches is gonna be position.
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On March 18 2011 16:26 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
This makes things even more interesting because now Cube and GM are good targets for the mafia to knock off if one of their own is in danger.
Ehm, if we see three people randomly pull off Cube/GM without former discussion, it's pretty obvious that they're mafia
And you realize more than one person can be killed a day right? Because even if they knocked one of them off, it wouldn't do anything to save their mafia buddy besides confirm he's scum.
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With this system, mafia isn't going to be able to just push or pull someone across the border without being really heavily scrutinized and probably revealing themselves. Seems like the motivation behind a PoP isn't ever going to be too opaque, considering it's entirely optional in the first place so there isn't any chance that someone pushes just because they have to before the day ends.
Basically, I feel like we should keep a close eye on who PoPs who but be even more aware of who tries to start bandwagons-- that'll be mafia's strongest strategy by far for messing with our lynch, even though the PoP system seems really strong for scum at first glance.
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On March 18 2011 17:54 Eiii wrote:
With this system, barring any special powers, mafia isn't going to be able to just push or pull someone across the border without being really heavily scrutinized and probably revealing themselves...
very important ebwop
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United States22154 Posts
Due to the fact that today it would take a giganormus number of pulls to lynch more than one person, I propose we limit ourselves to a single lynch today, and when the cue expands tomorrow we reconsider how many lynches we get that day.
If by some miracle two players near the hellfire are acting scummy then we can lynch them both.
As part of my plan i'm instituting the usual voting protocols.
to vote for someone type ##Vote Qatol to unvote type ##Unvote , this way we at least have something to analyze come the new day, for now I'm assuming we are going for a single lynch today.
I'll try to keep track of the vote tallies, but I am not perfect, so if I make mistakes call me out on them please.
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Well, it depends on who we want to lynch, actually. If we choose to go for ON/Wiggles/Kenpachi, then all we have to do is push them two/three times.
But yeah, unless we decide to go with one of these three, it's best to stick to one person.
However, we can also look at the bottom of the queue. It's easier to pull annul back for instance, than to push him all the way to the front. Or am I not getting the mechanics right?
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United States22154 Posts
welll as I understand it, if we put someone in the fire they dont die till that night, while if we shove someone off the cue they die instantly, its not a bad idea to push people off, but it means that if with 4 hours left to lynch we discover they might be town, its trivially easy to pull someone out of the fire, but impossible to undrop them.
Thats as I understand it at least.
+ Show Spoiler [First Votecount] +
Votecount 1.1, Morning of The First Day
Current Vote Tally
1. Mr. Wiggles (0)
2. GGQ (0)
3. OriginalName (0)
4. Kenpachi (0)
5. Meapak_Ziphh (0)
6. annul(0)
7. bumatlarge (0)
8. kitaman27(0)
9. Keifru(0)
10. Insanious (0)
11. chaoser (0)
12. darmousseh (0)
13. RoL(0)
14. GMarshal (0)
15. Eiii(0)
16. CubEdIn (0)
17. Rean(0)
Not currently voting: Mr. Wiggles, GGQ, OriginalName, Kenpachi, Meapak_Ziphh, annul, bumatlarge, kitaman27, Keifru ,Insanious, chaoser, darmousseh, RoL ,GMarshal, Eiii, CubEdIn, Rean
Current Vote Leader is: _______ with _____ votes
a majority has (not) been reached
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Wait so if that's the case then someone can just pull us back now and we instantly die? That can't be right.
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It IS right. Once you get pushed/pulled off the queue you die instantly. PoP's take effect instantly since you can't change them once they're made.
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I understand that, but it kinda gives everyone in the game a sort-of vigilante power over the two spots at the back.
Say if I attack you, and say you're scum, bla bla. You get pissed off, you pull me off, I flip green, then town kills you, you flip green, mafia is loling.
So the ones at the very back of the queue are in a really bad spot, since anyone can fuck us over whenever they feel like it.
That being said, we could push ourselves forward, but in that case, people can keep doing that and we won't get anywhere with this kind of moves.
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On March 18 2011 21:21 CubEdIn wrote:
I understand that, but it kinda gives everyone in the game a sort-of vigilante power over the two spots at the back.
Say if I attack you, and say you're scum, bla bla. You get pissed off, you pull me off, I flip green, then town kills you, you flip green, mafia is loling.
So the ones at the very back of the queue are in a really bad spot, since anyone can fuck us over whenever they feel like it.
That being said, we could push ourselves forward, but in that case, people can keep doing that and we won't get anywhere with this kind of moves.
You'd need to get atleast 4 pulls on you to be pulled off while nobody pushes you back up in the meantime. Now, if those 4 people give crap/no reasons for pulling you off they're practically guaranteed to be next.
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lmao. WHY SO PARANOID CUBEDIN!!!
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Oh now I understand.
I looked at the graph wrong. I get it now, positions 1 2 and 3 are empty. I thought me and GM were right on the edge and any /pull would throw us off.
Ok cool.
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United States22154 Posts
On March 18 2011 21:56 CubEdIn wrote:Oh now I understand. I looked at the graph wrong. I get it now, positions 1 2 and 3 are empty. I thought me and GM were right on the edge and any /pull would throw us off. Ok cool.
Oh, I can see how that would be preoccupying, yes
time to start encouraging posting
##Vote Kenpachi
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On March 18 2011 05:05 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2011 04:48 GMarshal wrote:On March 18 2011 04:44 kitaman27 wrote:
Since only scum know who other scum are, we could try to enact a policy to never pull to try to limit their ability to manipulate the queue.
As all toys have roles, a mass claim should probably eventually take place. That way we don't have any surprises, or at least less surprises. Some roles are going to be more pro-town than others, so that will give us something to work with, especially if they are conformable. Since the scum only have a single kp, they are going to have a hard time picking off all the good blues without the use of the queue. Personals I disagree, I think a mass claim is a poor idea, it just gives mafia the ideal targets to hit, and we know that scum has only one kill per night, but they may have something to compensate for that (a role reverser, or role blocker, or something) I do think that claiming when we don't know what the mafia can do with this information is a poor idea. I have a feeling a big problem will be last minute queue manipulation. For example, if someone has the ability increase the size of the incineration zone, if they want to use their ability they will have to make a fake claim that cannot be confirmable. Show nested quote +On March 18 2011 04:48 GMarshal wrote:
Also what do you think of my "fake vote" idea to determine deaths? Is it completely insane or is it a workable plan? I would be willing to go along with the idea. I know scum will probably try to make excuses about how they can't change their vote because they voted early on in the day cycle. It might be hard to pull off with only a 24 hour voting cycle though.
All I have seen so far is you guys discussing boring shit relating to being safe.
Time to ball up.
##Push Kitaman27
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United States22154 Posts
@RoL if you actualy want to push or pull him I think you need to specify witch it is you are doing,
also I'd like to hear your reasoning behind it
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Ok, interesting. 2 things i noticed.
1. No PM's  That makes me a sad panda, but I guess we will just have to deal with it.
2. The day ends at 9AM PST. This means that I have to vote in the next 12-16 hours since I usually don't wake up by that time.
3. With 4 mafia, it means that they can choose to kill anyone once they get into the red. I think as a policy, we should agree that no one should push anyone over the edge and if someone does push someone over the edge, be very suspicious of that person.
4. One thing that's good is that everyone has abilities meaning that unless mafia determine our individual ability, i think it's ok to make ideas to help promote your ability (such as being in a certain position, etc)
I have an idea to really help us right away if people are willing to go along, but it would make me a high target for mafia on night 1. I hope we have a medic toy.
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Will give my reasoning later. and sorry about that, I was under the impression it was pop/pull because I am stupid.
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EPT
