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Nemesis
Canada2568 Posts
On February 18 2011 13:23 Beneather wrote: Also, we should use Ace's vig hit ASAP because if we don't the mafia we'll get him and we'll lose one of townie kps w/out even using it. There are 3 mafias, and vig can't use kp until 1904 | ||
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Fishball
Canada4788 Posts
On February 18 2011 13:13 Nemesis wrote: How did I make the first move? All I did was expand. Coag I see that you are rather getting close to my land :X You expanded onto one of Germany's SC. Not all SC can produce units, only your default SC can. | ||
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Nemesis
Canada2568 Posts
On February 18 2011 13:29 Fishball wrote: You expanded onto one of Germany's SC. Not all SC can produce units, only your default SC can. really? I didn't know that. But isn't his default SC Kie? | ||
infinitestory
United States4053 Posts
I think it's easy to catch an unprepared mafia, but I've got reservations about 2 things. 1) They've had time to prepare claims and think about what they would respond if challenged. 2) How would you check a role like doctor? On another note, still waiting on a response from Italy/Turkey - What do you guys intend to do? | ||
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Coagulation
United States9633 Posts
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Coagulation
United States9633 Posts
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Nemesis
Canada2568 Posts
Is that an official declaration of war?  AND NO ONE SHOULD CLAIM UNTIL AFTER 1902 | ||
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Beneather
Canada451 Posts
On February 18 2011 13:27 Nemesis wrote: There are 3 mafias, and vig can't use kp until 1904 mb, but there's also a thief so there maybe 4 mafias. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
Come on, this REEKS of Scum play. There are 0 counter claims to the Vigi claim. If you were a Townie why would you take Spain? | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On February 18 2011 13:59 infinitestory wrote: I've been debating whether to claim or not. I haven't ignored the argument. I think it's easy to catch an unprepared mafia, but I've got reservations about 2 things. 1) They've had time to prepare claims and think about what they would respond if challenged. 2) How would you check a role like doctor? On another note, still waiting on a response from Italy/Turkey - What do you guys intend to do? 1.) Doesn't matter how much time they have to prepare a claim. There are 11 players which means any role clash doesn't take us too much time to solve. It's going to be difficult for them to safe claim when No Role reveal screws them over also. We have an Apprentice and a Coroner role which makes mass claim really powerful early on. 2.) Doesn't even matter. We just need to split the power roles from the vanilla roles asap. Once that happens and players die anyone can be confirmed via apprentice (first death) or via coroner (at anytime he decides to pop). If you don't support mass claim then propose another idea. The amount of laziness and lack of thinking is making this epic setup look like shit. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On February 18 2011 14:19 Beneather wrote: mb, but there's also a thief so there maybe 4 mafias. In an 11 player game I highly doubt there are 4 Scum. 3 is pretty standard, 4 is overkill especially when Scum can kill via taking provinces. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On February 18 2011 14:18 Nemesis wrote: Noooo, the big bad germans are coming to rape my men...someone save me! Is that an official declaration of war? AND NO ONE SHOULD CLAIM UNTIL AFTER 1902 Give a really good reason. Claiming before the first death helps the Town more than it helps Scum. ## Vote LSB This shouldn't even require much thought. | ||
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Nemesis
Canada2568 Posts
We can't really do anything with the information from mass role claiming until 1903 when our lynch comes in and 1904 when blue roles come in. On the other hand, it helps mafia choose their blue target of choice. There really is no reason why we shouldn't wait until after the first death, or if there is maybe you can explain it to me. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On February 18 2011 14:52 Nemesis wrote: How does it help town more than it helps scum? We can't really do anything with the information from mass role claiming until 1903 when our lynch comes in and 1904 when blue roles come in. On the other hand, it helps mafia choose their blue target of choice. There really is no reason why we shouldn't wait until after the first death, or if there is maybe you can explain it to me. Scum: I only know who is Scum, so anyone I kill is Town. Roles not flipping dont necessarily affect my kill choice. I always know how many Scum and Town are in the game, therefore I always know the state of the game. Town: I only know that I am Town. I don't know any roles, so when someone dies I still don't know anything about the state of the game except that there is one less player. "We can't do anything with the information" isn't a correct argument. The mere fact that we know who is Town aligned via roles BEFORE death puts Mafia in a position to false claim incorrectly. We ALSO make our coroner role more powerful before he has to pop. Like I said above if we have no idea about people's roles before they die when we have the power to actually make this easier on ourselves then why wouldn't we do it? Getting everyone's information before the first death makes things that much easier in the long run. It's an 11 player game which means we don't have to wait long to resolve anything. Just CLAIM because we are wasting a ton of time with this ridiculous shit. People are trying to talk diplomacy shit when it's still a Mafia game. | ||
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LSB
United States5171 Posts
Again I ask. Why in the world do we need role flips? Knowing that someone that died is green or blue isn't going to magically reveal the scum team. Again I say, why would the scum team do any unsafe fake claims? Again, I repeat, unless you have some overwhelming urge to give up the doctor on the first night and give up our chance to prevent the Mafia KP for the rest of the game, do not support Ace's so called 'plan' | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On February 18 2011 15:39 LSB wrote: I like how you still havent addressed my critisims of your plan Ace and start blabbering how it will make things 'easier', along with a OMGUS vote. Again I ask. Why in the world do we need role flips? Knowing that someone that died is green or blue isn't going to magically reveal the scum team. Again I say, why would the scum team do any unsafe fake claims? Again, I repeat, unless you have some overwhelming urge to give up the doctor on the first night and give up our chance to prevent the Mafia KP for the rest of the game, do not support Ace's so called 'plan' I'm not sure if you can't read or are selectively reading so here it goes again: Aside from the obvious benefits of catching Scum in lies, knowing people's roles before they flip gets us closer to catching them since it can be proven who lied via Coroner. If people die and we don't know their role than NO townie except the Apprentice (once) would know if we actually succeeded in killing Scum. If we know a the role or by extension the alignment of a player that died then we can actually go back to their posts and analyze what was going on. Without this information it is that much harder to confirm reads on other players. "why would the Scum Team do any unsafe fake claims?" Gee, maybe because they don't know what to claim? Have you *ever* played in a game with mass claims before? Where Scum try to stall as long as possible to claim so they can find out what roles are safe? That's whats going on now. The faster the Town mass claims the harder it is for anyone to fake a claim. If the Scum team fake claims then let them - between myself (Vigilante), Coroner and Apprentice with only 11 players it doesn't take a lot of effort to resolve this stuff. Add in that at least 3 of us playing this game are smart players unless all 3 of us are Scum I don't see this not working. Stop with the scare tactics by the way. Giving up the Doctor is the least of our worries here. Especially since you know, we have an Apprentice role. Your fears are seriously unfounded. | ||
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LSB
United States5171 Posts
There goes your "oh, we can tell if mafia lied" argument. Your little 'role vertification' plan is unessissary and just a ploy to flush out the blue roles. I've played games with mass claims. PYP3, my plan was basically a mass claim. And if I remeber correctly you tried to do a mass claim which failed miserably in Penalty Mafia. In addition, your saying that preventing mafia KP is unimportant. Thats intresting. | ||
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infinitestory
United States4053 Posts
On February 18 2011 14:18 Nemesis wrote: Noooo, the big bad germans are coming to rape my men...someone save me! Is that an official declaration of war? AND NO ONE SHOULD CLAIM UNTIL AFTER 1902 I very much agree with this. Even if I go with this plan, I'll at least hold off until then as well. I also have to ask: You say that based on the claims and knowing the alignment of dead guys, we can fish out coroner fake claims, etc. But that takes time, and day cycles are very precious to us. Mass roleclaiming quickly gives the mafia instant information, which they can put to use immediately. I don't think a mass roleclaim gives us the luxury of using the information immediately; we have to sift out the bullshit first, while the mafia doesn't. How will you address this? | ||
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Incognito
United States2071 Posts
Coroner: You have the ability to discern the true identities of the dead. Once per game, you may send me a PM requesting the roles of every dead player. Coroner is an activated ability. Once activated, the roles of all the dead are revealed to the Coroner. So mafia would flip mafia, thieves would flip thief, blue roles will flip their respective blue roles, and townies will flip townie. Basically this role gives the coroner a one time role reveal for all past deaths. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On February 18 2011 16:30 infinitestory wrote: I very much agree with this. Even if I go with this plan, I'll at least hold off until then as well. I also have to ask: You say that based on the claims and knowing the alignment of dead guys, we can fish out coroner fake claims, etc. But that takes time, and day cycles are very precious to us. Mass roleclaiming quickly gives the mafia instant information, which they can put to use immediately. I don't think a mass roleclaim gives us the luxury of using the information immediately; we have to sift out the bullshit first, while the mafia doesn't. How will you address this? We aren't fishing Coroner fake claims, we are using the Coroner to help find fake claims via people's death. We have the luxury of using the information immediately and I've addressed this several times: we know roles are tied to alignment. We do not know anything via death, hence we need to force a mass claim before death so EVERYONE is held accountable. We sift through the bullshit the same way we always do in every game of Mafia ever played: We analyze. LSB you really should stop comparing this game and PYP 3. The mere fact that you are not only a poor player when it comes to understanding mechanics, but also that you still don't understand what No Role Reveal does to the Town means you should stop speaking. If you can not comprehend how a game works that is fine, but when I'm here explaining to you the difference between the games and you still can't "get it" then maybe you should think of something else to ponder over. That being said if any of you have a problem with this idea I'll ask: Have any of you ever played a game with No Role Reveal?. If you have tell me what happened in that game when the first player died. | ||
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