EPTOn February 17 2011 10:10 LSB wrote:
Okay, you have not addressed any of my points, and instead waved around a flag of "We won't know what people flip"
You completely ignored my point. I'm talking about how a mass claim is horribly anti-town
You just say...
This is not responsive at all. In fact you just reveal similarities. In PYP3 we know that a few roles definitely exist. In PYP3 Mafia had only 1 KP, and town had 3 KP...
I really don't think that time was the issue with the mass claim I proposed in PYP3. The issue was that I was the SK, and I used that to take out the Bulletbill (and then I would have hit the tracker) Night 1.
So wait... what's the point of your plan then? If I remember correctly, you were saying that we need this plan because we won't know the alignment/role of players flipping.
In fact that's your only reason (well, you then pretend the only way we can find mafia is through a mass claim) I'll spoiler the parts for you.
+ Show Spoiler +
A few questions for you.
Let's say this is the claim
+ Show Spoiler +
What do we do now? How does this benefit the town?
Why should we do it now night 1, instead of Day 2?
Why should the corner claim before he gets any results?
Okay, you have not addressed any of my points, and instead waved around a flag of "We won't know what people flip"
You completely ignored my point. I'm talking about how a mass claim is horribly anti-town
You just say...
This is not responsive at all. In fact you just reveal similarities. In PYP3 we know that a few roles definitely exist. In PYP3 Mafia had only 1 KP, and town had 3 KP...
I really don't think that time was the issue with the mass claim I proposed in PYP3. The issue was that I was the SK, and I used that to take out the Bulletbill (and then I would have hit the tracker) Night 1.
So wait... what's the point of your plan then? If I remember correctly, you were saying that we need this plan because we won't know the alignment/role of players flipping.
In fact that's your only reason (well, you then pretend the only way we can find mafia is through a mass claim) I'll spoiler the parts for you.
+ Show Spoiler +
On February 17 2011 09:13 Ace wrote:
We are dealing with a no role reveal setup
We are dealing with a no role reveal setup
On February 17 2011 08:58 Ace wrote:
why wouldn't you support a mass claim in a game with 11 players and NO ROLE REVEAL?
why wouldn't you support a mass claim in a game with 11 players and NO ROLE REVEAL?
On February 17 2011 08:45 Ace wrote:
There is NO role reveal. so everyone should claim before the first death so that the coroner can pop. Don't worry if you don't believe the claim because you won't be around much longer to matter.
So stop stalling and claim.
There is NO role reveal. so everyone should claim before the first death so that the coroner can pop. Don't worry if you don't believe the claim because you won't be around much longer to matter.
So stop stalling and claim.
A few questions for you.
Let's say this is the claim
+ Show Spoiler +
LSB- Townie
Coagulation - Corner
infinitestory - DT
Beneather - Townie
ShoCkeyy - Vet
BloodyC0bbler - Doctor
bumatlarge - Apprentice
Nemesis - Townie
Fishball - Townie
Divinek - Townie
Ace - Vig
Coagulation - Corner
infinitestory - DT
Beneather - Townie
ShoCkeyy - Vet
BloodyC0bbler - Doctor
bumatlarge - Apprentice
Nemesis - Townie
Fishball - Townie
Divinek - Townie
Ace - Vig
What do we do now? How does this benefit the town?
Why should we do it now night 1, instead of Day 2?
Why should the corner claim before he gets any results?
Well we can guess by the order of claims who is more believable. For instance, if no one else claims Vig, Ace would have had to be extremely lucky as mafia to pick the only role we didn't have. Therefore, we really don't have many reasons to lynch Ace, unless he does something ridiculous, or future evidence proves against him.
We are chancing on a pre-set amount of roles (1 of each). This leaves no room for mafia to claim blues while not being put out there. This doesn't make it an auto-lynch of course, but this puts a spotlight on the person. 2 blues of the same role have nothing to fear really, since they can prove what they are in most cases.
With that set-up, unless one of the last claims was a blue, we can assume all the blues are legit, until proven otherwise. We nearly clear 7(!) people, unless mafia has previous knowledge, is lucky, or waits for an untaken role. Again, it's either that or nothing (haven't heard an alternate plan). Mafia can only take out 1 person every 2 years, so they can't "eliminate" all the blues without us gaining anything with the blues we know. I'd assume BC would be the first to die, then myself. This way mafia's hits do not get stopped, unless they want to risk a protect, where the odds are in the BC's favor. The coroner should have popped at some time confirming BC and our first lynch and letting me flawlessly assume second doctor. I die next, because of the repeat scenario. Ace get's a hit off, DT reveals 2 checks, and Lawyer gives any info or clues based on diaries. Come 1906, mafia hit 3 people, 2 doctors and most likely the DT, who has given us info on two people. At the same time we had 1 lynch and ace's hit, confirming him, and then another lynch. If Inf checked LSB and beneather and you both came back town, the last three would be under heavy scrutiny (the 5 who claimed town will most likely have 3 dead among their number. Mafia hit Ace in 1908, and the confirmed coroner and Lawyer remain along with two role checked townies. Then GF is one of the townies.
We can analyze dual claims quite well with a DT with guaranteed 2 checks (unless mafia fakeclaim one, that would be interesting) and we get plenty of time to do additional analysis as well and maneuvering in the game.
Worse case scenario, mafia claims a role that we do not have. Alternately, mafia claims a claimed role, in which case we have to be resourceful depending on what role was dual claimed. Best case, DT checks mafia who claimed vanilla tow, Ace vigs another who was GF, and DT checks another and hes mafia > we win without using diplo mechanic or analysis (aside form DT)
I like our odds, mafia has to fakeclaim blue, and we can still visualize the actual set-up if there are 3 different extra blues lying around.
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/SKy0T.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/j0w7F.jpg)
