EPTI will not pick traitor this time
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I will not pick traitor this time | ||
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On December 30 2010 16:32 Qatol wrote: Wasn't Radfield's plan the one where the town assigned roles to certain spots and then the players picked an order so they wouldn't overlap? If so, why would you ever try to reproduce that? It lets the mafia control what their members pick, which is the worst thing that could happen to the town. The town wants overlaps so the mafia are either forced into early positions/ roles they cannot use effectively without becoming suspicious or positions later in the draft where the mafia cannot be sure their desired roles will be available. If I remember correctly, I thought Radfield was mafia for most of PYP2 because his plan was so anti-town. Edit: I just realized that this came out really harsh, especially considering the town won PYP2. What I really meant was just as long as the town prevents the mafia from controlling the draft, they are in good shape. I don't think Radfield's method for doing so was as effective as it could have been, but it was certainly sufficient and he should be commended for coming forward and making sure the town tried to do something to take control of the drafting phase. Firstly, the mafia wasn't really able to control the draft, Radfield was the one. When the plan was put in action, I'm pretty sure that people didn't RNG and just chose the best role for them. So basically his plan was telling everyone what number to pick. Now, there was no consideration for where mafia could be. So possibly this would be a change for the plan this game The main weakness I see with his plan was 1) There were some green players due to role overlap. Maximal amount of blues would have been extreamly good for the town. 2) It should have been pretty obvious where the DT was. In fact mafia went after DT the first round. Given, they knew where the DT was because they attempted to take the DT spot but failed. And also the hit failed because the DT was the SK Now, the good stuff with the plan 1) It got rid of the pretty dangerous roles quick. (This could be accomplished by assigning the copy-cat role earlier or later). One trouble in PYP1 was that the comp vig got lost. 2) Medics would have their jobs cut out for them. They know around where the mafia would hit. So possibly obvious blue roles isn't a bad thing. 3) It got an obscene amount of roles out, each incredibly useful. Of course, I immediately see some irreparable weakness with both plans. Chiefly, the traitor messed things up real quick for a while, but then all was good. I'll try working on it, once I see the role list. | ||
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Firstly, as always, I don't really start planning or scumhunting until I get my role PM. So I don't really want to get into too much detail about what I'm going to do Number selection portion I don't believe this area is enforceable. My first post in this game will probably be announcing I chose the numbers [5][1] The thing that is able to be controlled is revealing the plan after the numbers were selected. This way, mafia maneuvers won't really matter. Now, this is placing a significant amount of trust on one person. However, the Egyptian Pyramid Builder method works well here. All we do is kill me day one and see if I'm red or blue. Role Selection Portion Rastaban's plan was clearly superior in this field. Yes he probably placed importance on the wrong areas, but this can be fixed When we look at PYP 2 we see that there actually wasn't that much clash + Show Spoiler + rastaban - (CV) chaoser-(Bad Santa) LSB - (Traitor) Hesmyrr (CV) - VT Inentional zeks (Role Cop) SouthRawrea (Traitor) - VT Subversion (Role Cop)-VS Fishball (Bullet Bill) ~Opz~ (Meth Man) citi.zen (Tracker) BrownBear (Meth Man) - VT JeeJee (Doctor) - (rolled Normal) DarthThienAn (CC) siNiquity (Tracker) - VT Divinek (DV) Radfield (copy Cat) - VT Bill Murray (Mason) bumatlarge (watcher) Pandain (Martyr) We take out Hesmyrr, who intentionally clashed with someone else, and then we see that 3 people clashed. This is a 3/18 rate. 17% In PYP1, there was less roles, so yes there should be less clash. But the amount of people who actually choose roles was much less. + Show Spoiler + Bill Murray (Inventor) [NyC]HoBbes (Meth Man) Radfield (SK) (floridian) d3_crescentia (Doc - Weak) 8 Korynne (Vanilla Town) 10 Foolishness (scum) (CV) 11 JeeJee [6][1] (meth man)->(Vanilla) 12 sidesprang (scum) (Scum Weak Doctor) 13 Scamp (Doc - Normal) 14 ~Opz~ (CV) (Vanilla) 16 Qatol (CC) ->(Vanilla Town) 18 DarthThienAn (scum) (DV) 19 Zona (scum) (Pardoner) We take out everyone who didn't chose a role, and see that there are 4 clashes 4/13 is a 31% rate. The main issue with your plan Qatol is that it left a lot of townies to choose their roles up for themselves. And when this happened, it was left up to the dice. A lot of townies quickly tried to grab important roles, bumping into each other. Radfield's plan was nice because it had significantly more roles. 9 roles Vrs. 16. In reality. There were enough blues that the town didn't really need to scumhunt. | ||
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On January 02 2011 06:31 Qatol wrote: I'm just warning you that I believe announcing your numbers before the drafting order is revealed is suboptimal because it reduces the odds of a conflict in numbers. Also most good plans don't need to get the formulator killed - the whole point of them is they make logical sense to everyone. Killing yourself to earn trust is a weakness to almost any plan because people won't follow it unless it makes sense to them regardless of whether or not they trust your intentions. Although conflict in numbers can be used to generate a list of who is probably mafia, it can be beat. All mafia has to do is assigning two people. [1][1] and [1][2], and your plan falls to shambles. By me publically announcing that I will be taking [5][1] at the beginning of the game. We know if anyone intentionally tries to take a [5][X], something is up with that person. Probably what's going to happen is we'll try to get most of the plan before the number selection occurs, so people are on board. As for clashing, you mischaracterize the facts somewhat. First of all, the mafia disrupted the role selection/assignment more in PYP1 than they did in PYP2 (partially because role assignment hadn't been accepted as the proper course of action) - 2 of those clashes were because mafia selected the role 1 spot higher than the town person assigned to select said role. Out of the 4 clashes you identify, 3 of the players who ended up with vanilla roles from clashing were assigned a selection or small group of selections, so it wasn't really because the townies were left to select roles on their own. Second of all, why did you discount Hesmyrr but not OpZ when he was also likely to clash with someone with their pick based on his assignment (he was told to either take CompVig, Inventor, or JOAT even though 2 of those had already been assigned)? I agree that the organization of the PYP2 method was better, but I still think that PYP1 had it beat in some areas (number selection in particular). Indeed, the same happened with PYP2, the people who had clashes were assigned as part of a group of selections. The thing was, the reason why it was far less was because it was generally organized. Immediately the plan guaranteed the first 3 roles be picked. And also the Bullet Bill / DT be picked. But remember, the more roles the better. Although the mafia can get it's hands on a few good roles. What won the game last time was the mass of imbalanced town roles. iirc, the purpose of not selecting the JOAT, was so that we'd know anyone with a gun was mafia. That way the bullet bill became a 100% scumdar Now, I have in mind a plan, but as always, I don't want to screw myself over if I turn out to be mafia. | ||
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For example, say 1,2,3,4,5 are publically claimed. Sure, the mafia could pick six, however, they will always be behind the people who picked the first five numbers. Fishball, how successful were you at getting the people into the right spots? | ||
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Although Inactivity played a part. The Mafia didn't lose PYP2 just because of inactivity, the chief reason was because over half the town was confirmed and we couldn't do anything about it, and no one anticipated how broken the bad santa role can be. Yes I see you have a point about clashing. But remember, the mafia already knows that the town might use clashing as a scumtell. It would be incredibly easy for the mafia to pick 2 [1][X] slots and then simply redirect the town to clashing. The town would waste lots of time trying to fit things under the clashing theory, when all that would be accomplished is 'confirming' a mafia. Just like how Mafia IV will probably not happen again, clashing is a theory that probably won't work | ||
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On January 02 2011 11:14 Qatol wrote: Heh and clearly this is the real reason I don't play much any more. My plans all work once and then never again and I'd rather not be an average player! But at least games where my plans happened are legendary! It's all right. Teamwork is overrated. Gogo Kill everyone else in the game plan!! | ||
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A) Successfully protects a hit B) Kills someone C) Is supppse to kill someone but that person is protected/bulletproof? | ||
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![[image loading]](http://homeschoolblogger.com/explorer/files/2010/10/fractal-2.jpg) Information is Beautiful Introductory Notes + Show Spoiler + 1. There are 21 roles, and 21 People. Of these roles. Only three are completely ainti-town. The Godfather, the Traitor, and the Janitor (To a degree). 2. There are two doctors. So even if the mafia knows where two of the most powerful roles are (JOAT, Bullet Bill). It shouldn’t be a problem as we can protect them every single time. 3. The mafia only has 1 kp. So at best, they can only take out one good role a night Taking these two points in mind, I’m coming up with the Information is Beautiful plan. The goal of the plan is to give almost everyone a role so that there will be soo many blues that the mafia can't do anything about it. The plan in a nutshell. We will create a list of roles. For example 1. CPR Doc 2. Comp Vig 3. Janitor. Lets say the draft turns out to be 1. LSB 2. Deconduo 3. Kenpachi LSB would draft the CPR Doc role Deconduo would draft the Comp Vig role Kenpachi would draft the Janitor role We do this for 20 roles. The last person will randomly chose a role. Because picking traitor would be dumb. Step one: Number Picking Phase We want the number picking phase to be as random as possible. So please. No one declare what number they will be picking. This will make it hard for the mafia to predict what spot they will take. We will put together a list of what spot will take which role. This way the mafia won’t be able to pick which role they are forced to take. Step two: Role Drafting Phase Everyone will draft the role they will suppose to be drafting. Step three: Resolve Disputes Lets say the person who was suppose to pick JOAT didn’t get his role. We can start sending Role Cops and Bullet Bills to figure out who took the JOAT role. Considerations Information The mafia would know where every single role would be. This means that our alignment cops are pretty vulnerable. But remember, the town would know where every single role. This opens up lots and lots of possibilities. DTs immediately telling results. Doctors claiming who they are going to protect before they do, so if they actually are weak doctors, we got a 100% mafia. Town will also get up to three KP. 1 Lynch KP. 1 CPR Doc. 1 Comp Vig. The town KP will severely outnumber the mafia KP. Serial Killer There is a key fact about the SK we can exploit. The SK is bulletproof. That means that whenever one of the town hits doesn't go off and is blocked, that person is the SK. | ||
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Alignment Cop- Although the Alignment Cop might not be correct, all we have to do is have the cop claim all their checks. Once the cop dies, we will be able to know their sanity Role Cop- This is amazing. Its an easy way to track any missteps in the plan to see if someone didn't go with it Doctor- Night one the doctors should declare who they are protecting. This way if a doctor is a weak doctor and they die, we know what happened. Bulletproof- Very good. But kindof useless Mason- Easily vertifiable. Just have their mason buddy claim. Day Vig- Easily Vertifiable Compulsive Vigilante- Very dangerous. We should have this as our #2 pick JOAT- Doctors, Vig, 100% Cop. Amazing. (#4 Pick) Veteran- Good, but kindof useless God Father- It is a mafia role, but we should still assign it to see if a mafia picked it up. It should be the last pick (#20) Role blocker- This can be used to stop the Comp Vig from shooting anyone. Also it's dangerous in Mafia hands Copy Cat- This can be a mafia role. (Day vig shoots the CPR Doc, the copy cat them becomes the CPR doc). But once we know every singe role, we know who the Copy Cat it. It's kindof useless, and should be close to the last pick (#19) Pardoner- They can prove their role easily Bullet Bill- Amazing DT. Can figure out the SK and Mafia Easily. #5 Pick Traitor- Don't pick this. Prince of Darkness- Remember, the town will have lots and lots of night actions. The mafia only has 1 KP a night, so this might not be a bad idea. However, this should only be used if we know that it's a good idea Politican Janitor- Dangerous little role. We should try to pick up this role fast. Remember, the mafia knows the alignment of everyone, so the Janitor can only help them. (#3 pick) CPR Doc- Dangerous. We should think of it as a vigilante. We got to get it into town hands. It has to be #1 pick Hider | ||
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Color Key Essential to the town Very dangerous Easily verifiable | ||
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1. CPR Doc 2. Comp Vig 3. Janitor 4. JOAT 5. Bullet Bill 6. Doctor 7. Doctor 8. Role Cop 9. Alignment Cop 10. Role Blocker 11. Prince of Darkness 12. Day Vig 13. Pardoner 14. Politican 15. Mason 16. Hider 17. Bulletproof 18. Veteran 19. Copy Cat 20. God Father 21. Random a role | ||
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But we know where the Hider/Bulletproof/Vet is, since the plan is, once we know everyone's role, things will be a lot easier. For example, if we target the Pardoner to get killed. And for some reason he lives, although the doctors swear they didn't protect him. The Pardoner is probably the SK (either that or one of the doctors is lying) | ||
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On January 03 2011 11:53 LayOffRage wrote: Since I am pretty sure the game didn't start yet why are you metaing out plans? A perfect plan is more important than winning. | ||
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1. Receive Alignment 2. Send in numbers 3. Receive draft placement and pick your role. | ||
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On January 03 2011 13:16 kitaman27 wrote: What about the fact that the medics identities will be public too? Couldn't they be picked off day one? Town has to worry about 2 kp because the SK will likely be sniping good roles as well. It is unlikely that any of these kills will be blocked if the veteran, bulletproof, hider are all public and the medics are sitting ducks. Would it be better for the anti-town roles to be predetermined so the town has some control over them, while the pro-town roles remain hidden? That would result in some overlap in role selection, however important roles like bullet bill and alignment cop won't be taken out so easily. All right, in order to understand this fully, you have to understand one thing Clash is equivilant to a mafia kill / SK kill Lets say that in my plan, I was assigned the DT and you the Medic. All right, mafia might spend on of their KPs and take out the DT Now, lets say we just randomly choose roles. I picked DT, and you picked DT. Sure the mafia 'doesn't know where the medic is' but we have no medic. Frankly, yeah, one of our DT/Medics will die. But we got 19 other blue roles to draw up on. The point of the plan is to eliminate clash in role selection so that we get an obcene amount of information. If you still don't understand, try propsing a solution. | ||
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Then we get into Prisoners Delima. Lets say we order the Medics to protect LSB. The medic has two choices, protect LSB, or don't However, if we convince the Mafia that the medic is protecting LSB, its just as good protection as if LSB was actually protected, since mafia isn't going to make that risk The medic is free to do whatever he wants then Or. We could just have lots of clashes and not actually have any important roles. That would take care of the medic problem pretty fast | ||
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On January 03 2011 14:59 kitaman27 wrote: I disagree. That assumes that the vanilla townie is dead. Even if a clash occurs, the vanilla role is still alive to contribute and still counts towards the win condition threshold. Not really. Lets look at the two senarios A) 1 DT 1 Medic. Mafia shoots the medic Result? 1 DT left B) 1DT 1 Townie. Mafia shoots a random person Result? 50% 1 DT left. 50% 1 Townie left Its like me taking a doller from you. Heads you keep the doller. Tails I keep it. Not good chance. Best case scenario, the clash involves a mafia and leaves them without a role. Sure, the clash is unfortunate, but I wouldn't go as far as saying its a kill. Sure the mafia will always get a role. We alreday denied the good roles, so the role is kindof useless for the mafia. Perhaps, but I would think the town members with the lower picks would prioritize the medic and dt roles rather that the less useful roles to prevent that type of situation. So there might be some doubling on certain roles, but it would come at the loss of something like the Politician or Veteran, rather than the medic or dt. Why would we want to give up a Veteran Role? I guess we could do somethig like spot 6 be 50% doctor 50% vet And spot 21 be 100% doctor. But thats radfield's plan, and yeah, mafia still shot the DT night one. I proposed that the anti-town roles be pre-determined for town manipulation while the town roles were left for selection. It also kinda takes the fun out of "pick your power" when your power is chosen for you, but I'm not strictly against your idea. If we do decide to take your course of action, we should finalize the suggested role list before the alignment pm's go out to prevent any tampering. 1) Higher seeded players will be the ones who get roles, so the mafia probably will hit high anyways 2) Think of the number picking phase, everyone picking random numbers will have a LOT of clashes. Do you think that having the whole town do that is going to be any better? | ||
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On January 03 2011 15:11 bumatlarge wrote: Taking out the watcher role? For shame. Well I guess it was completely broken *wink*  Who knows? Maybe you'll get politican and then we find out that it too is completly broken! | ||
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I'm moving the copy cat up because of a possible mafia combo. (Day 1 Vig shoots CPR Doc, copycat gets lost somewhere.) With the Copy Cat higher on the role list, it should be easier to determine what happened. I have moved down the Janitor. Although the Janitor might be dangerous. It's not as dangerous as a rouge Copy Cat. Proposed Role Picking list 1. CPR Doc 2. Comp Vig 3. Copy Cat 4. JOAT 5. Bullet Bill 6. Doctor 7. Doctor 8. Role Cop 9. Alignment Cop 10. Role Blocker 11. Janitor 12. Prince of Darkness 13. Day Vig 14. Pardoner 15. Politican 16. Mason 17. Hider 18. Bulletproof 19. Veteran 20. God Father 21. Random a role[ | ||
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And this wouldn't be the first game where we gave mafia perfect information. In PYP2, besides for the traitor role, mafia basically knew where every single other role was. | ||
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Lets pretend the copy cat is at position #19 or something low. Say the day vig kills the CPR doc day 1. But apparently someone else took the copy cat role and Position 19 never got it. That leaves 17 other candidates for the copycat role. The key thing is that if the day vig uses his ability. We know where he is. But we won't know where the copy cat is. By placing the copy cat up high, we solve this problem because it leaves only 3 possible locations for where the copy cat it. Number Clashing is good for the town as it adds an element of randomness to the draft order Role Clashing is bad for the town as it lessens the amount of blue roles. | ||
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Also, it isn't that hard for the mafia to pick up the day vig and copycat. All they have to do is just send in the PM to ace saying that they want the roles. As long as they pick up the copycat and the day vig before the assigned townie does, they got it. | ||
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This was the assigned role list + Show Spoiler + #1 Comp Vig #2 Bad Santa #3 Prince of Darkness #4 33/33/33 CV, Bad Santa or PoD #5 50% Role Cop, 50% Defensive role(Vet, Meth Man, or Bulletproof. 33% chance of each) #6 50% Joat......... 50% Defensive role #7 50% Bullet Bill, 50% Defensive role #8 50% Role Cop, 50% Defensive role #9 50% Joat.........50% Defensive role #10 50% Bullet Bill, 50% Defensive role #11 25% Role Cop, 25% Defensive role, 25% Doctor, 25% role of your choice(not tracker) #12 25% Joat, 25% Defensive role, 25% Doctor, 25% role of your choice(not tracker) #13 25% Bullet Bill, 25% Defensive role, 25% Doctor, 25% role of your choice(not tracker) #14. 50% Tracker, 25% doctor, 25% Copy Cat(recommended) or Other(Alignment Cop, Mason, Martyr, etc.) #15. 50% Tracker, 25% doctor, 25% Copy Cat(recommended) or Other #16. 50% Tracker, 25% doctor, 25% Copy Cat(recommended) or Other #17 50% role cop, 50% other #18 50% Joat, 50% other #19 50% Bullet Bill, 50% other #20 50% tracker, 50% other Now lets make predictions on who will pick what. People will want to take the nice shiny role that others probably didn't take above them. + Show Spoiler + #1 Comp Vig #2 Bad Santa #3 Prince of Darkness #4 Town #5 Role Cop #6 Joat #7 Bullet Bill #8 Defensive role #9 Defensive role #10 Defensive role #11 Doctor #12 Doctor #13 role of your choice #14. Tracker #15. Copy Cat #16. Other #17 other #18 other #19 other #20 other Changes between Predictions and Actual. + Show Spoiler + #1 Comp Vig #2 Bad Santa #3 Traitor #4 Town #5 Role Cop #6 (Traitor) Town #7 Vanilla Mafia (role cop) #8 Bullet Bill #9 Meth Man #10 Tracker #11 (Meth Man) Vanilla #12 Doctor #13 Copy Cat #14. (Tracker) Vanilla #15. Day Vig #16. (Copy Cat) Vanilla Town #17 Mason #18 Watcher #19 Martyr #20 other 1. The traitors. This is expected as #3 and #6 switched 2. The Mafia. Mafia did a little switch up with #7 and #8. 3. Random townie's not picking what was predicted. This actually happened very little Besides the traitor, and mafia jockeying roles around #7/#8. We see that the choices were suprisingly accurate Now, what the mafia predicted at the start of night one What the mafia probably predicted. + Show Spoiler + #1 Comp Vig #2 Bad Santa #3 Prince of Darkness #4 Town #5 Role Cop #6 Townie or Traitor ^^Traitor somewhere here #7 Vanilla #8 Bullet Bill #9 Defensive role #10 Defensive role #11 Doctor #12 Doctor #13 role of your choice #14 Tracker #15 Day Vig #16 Other #17 Mason #18 other #19 other They were only wrong about #10, and #11. In fact basically the mafia had a perfect role list, just they don't really know what goes on at them end (where there was no important roles anyways) Now what devastation did the mafia do with this near perfect role list? Night 1: Hit the role cop. Night 2: Hit the most vocal townie Night 3: Hit a confirmed townie Night 4: Hit a confirmed Doctor. Remember, the mafia only has 1 KP a night, so even if they do know a perfect role list, it will take them a long time before they can actually do anything about it. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + 1. CPR Doc 2. Comp Vig 3. Copy Cat 4. JOAT 5. Bullet Bill 6. Doctor 7. Doctor 8. Role Cop 9. Alignment Cop 10. Role Blocker 11. Tracker 12. Janitor 13. Prince of Darkness 14. Day Vig 15. Pardoner 16. Politican 17. Mason 18. Floridian 19. Hider 20. Bulletproof 21. Veteran 22. God Father Tracker is useful as an information role. And floridian is a role that can confirm itself. | ||
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This can be accomplished in one of three way 1) Everyone randomizing their picks through a RNG. Easiest option, although not 100% effective, it will generate randomness 2) Everyone declaring what number they will pick However, this is bad because it allows easier access for the mafia to the roles they want 3) Everyone getting an assigned number (this would be your number on the signup list). We will then be able to track who got bumped down. The reason why we need to spread out the draft is because the number drafting stage can be exploited. The number draft is not random. A lot of people like to pick the numbers 1, 4, 6, 8, 10. To illustrate this I'll provide a histogram + Show Spoiler [Histogram of PYP1 and PYP2 Picks] + ![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/whQYJ.png) This is chart of all the first numbers picked in PYP1 and PYP2 Knowing this, the mafia can easily exploit this fact Check out the old draft + Show Spoiler + 1. CPR Doc 2. Comp Vig 3. Copy Cat 4. JOAT 5. Bullet Bill 6. Doctor 7. Doctor 8. Role Cop 9. Alignment Cop 10. Role Blocker 11. Janitor 12. Prince of Darkness 13. Day Vig 14. Pardoner 15. Politican 16. Mason 17. Hider 18. Bulletproof 19. Veteran 20. God Father 21. Random a role There is a giant 'sweet spot' The information/townie roles. They are grouped together. Mafia will pick draft orders such as [7][1], [9][1], [11][1], [12][1], [13][1] in an attempt to snap up as many information roles as possible. This would work because the town would probably concentrate it's picks at the start (because of human nature. Really, who would pick a number like 16? So the town would trip over itself allowing the mafia to maneuver into position. Additional solution. One other way we can solve this is to modify the draft order so that it alternates between an important town information role, and a role we are trying to keep away from mafia hands. For example, the first six roles could look like 1. CPR Doc 2. JOAT 3. Comp Vig 4. Bullet Bill 5. Copy Cat 6. Doctor Instead | ||
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2. JOAT 3. Vig 4. Bullet Bill 5. Copy Cat 6. Doctor 7. Role Blocker 8. Doctor 9. Day Vig 10. Role Cop 11. Pardoner 12. Alignment Cop 13. Politican 14. Tracker 15. Mason 16. Witch 17. Hider 18. Janitor 19. Bulletproof 20. Prince of Darkness 21. Veteran 22. God Father Philosophy Red Roles are "Watch Roles". These roles if they do anything suspicious the town can easily tell and lynch. Mafia cannot do much with these roles Green Roles are "Pro town roles". These roles are crucial as their abilities to gather information and protect others can bring town victory Blue Roles are "role verifiable roles". These role can easily prove that they picked the role that they were suppose to pick. This will be useful if people find if someone stole their pick, or when we're hunting the traitor. Alternation : The roles that we don't want the mafia to get their hands on are the green roles. That's why I alternated the green roles with the red/blue roles. This way it will be harder for the mafia to snag up these roles. | ||
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On January 07 2011 08:22 Fishball wrote: Decided to join last minute, I haven't read anything yet, including OP. I'll read it later when I have time. I just want to bring this up front first, it will be very unlikely for me to follow LSB's plan. Why not? | ||
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For starters: There's going to be a few townies that get the role they want. Maybe there's going to be a Bullet Bill, and a JOAT. There's going to be a whole bunch of townies that tried to pick the Bullet Bill and the Joat, but didn't get it so they just ended up green. There's going to be a whole bunch of roles that are important left untouched because no townie decided to pick it. It's going to be easy for mafia to pick up the roles they want. Just get a high draft number and start stealing. | ||
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On January 07 2011 09:49 Amber[LighT] wrote: You act like it will be so easy for mafia to get high draft numbers. Doing it this way allows them to downplay their draft numbers, giving them more comfort during the draft for roles that could be beneficial for them or detrimental for the town to lose. Firstly, most of the things I outlined still are problems even if mafia is dead last in the draft. The key isn't mafia interference (That will always exist), the key is town clashing with other town. Secondly, my plan is doing the opposite. Its forcing the mafia so that they can't use the roles they draft to help themselves or face execution. Since we know where roles such as the Copy Cat, CPR Doc, Roleblocker ect are, if the mafia attempts to use these roles for their own benefit, we can easily flush them out. Thirdly, I've already outlined a way for the mafia to get high draft numbers. In fact, the mafia doesn't really even need high draft numbers because I don't believe many townies would actively try to deny the roles such as godfather or Janitor from the mafia. | ||
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On January 07 2011 13:53 BloodyC0bbler wrote: also lsb -_- *facepalm* Your plan gives wayyyyyy to much information to mafia. It also gives the mafia a stupid easy time of faking being town depending on the role they get. I've already addressed information. Mafia had virtually full information in PYP2 and couldn't do much about it. Secondly with 4 potential protection roles, it shouldn't be an issue What do you mean by faking town? @Bum. Why would any slot 9 person go for Joat? The problem is if we allow for people to bit a wee bit flexible, it allows mafia to easily shuffle around roles. For example, lets say #5 Copycat, decides to pick Day Vig instead. This could be a potential mafia transfer of the copycat role to somewhere hidden. | ||
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Role cop is important if mafia decides to mess around with the role list / hunting traitors. Vig / bulletproof I guess you could say are fillers, but hey, being untouchable at night might encourage people to be active @Fishball Certainly information helps the mafia. But you are overemphasizng the impact. Lets say I tell you (the mafia) that Player 1 and 2 are doctors, and Players 3-6 are DTs. You have 1 KP. How does the mafia instantly win? You had all the information you needed in PYP2, about as much as my plan. I'll re-link the post for you www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=7486616 Please stop just repeating what other people already said and actually start thinking and adressing my responces The key thing you are missing is that the town needs information too. Lets say everyone choose random roles. Eventually the Bullet Bills or DTs will have to come out and clain. The problem is how would the town know whether they are telling the truth or not? By giving the town the information, it helps deal with this issue Lastly, if the Mafia conforms, they will lose because of the shear number of investigative roles. | ||
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=176529¤tpage=10#197 Generally the draft is not random and can be predicted how it will go. I would also like to reiterate this post. On January 07 2011 16:31 Misder wrote: Also, LSB, I feel that you're over-exaggerating the # of investigative roles Role cop (can only confirm roles in list, not really guarantee that they are mafia), JOAT (can only investigate once), tracker (if used effectively), and parity cop Tracker and parity cop seems like the only investigative roles that the town can rely on. (And JOAT, but that person can only check once) On January 07 2011 22:19 Pigsquirrel wrote: The major problem with LSB's plan is that the Mafia can conform then just snipe the investigative roles. If they are lucky and land on an extra KP, then it's GG for town. There are 8 pro town roles including the protection roles. Assuming that no protects go through, it would take 8 nights for mafia to try to kill every single pro town role. Secondly, the mafia won't be able to use an extra KP because we would know if a CPR doc goes rouge. With the plan we would know who accomplished this. Without the plan we would just be helpless. Also, if we know where the roleblocker is, we can force the roleblocker to stop the CPR docs from attacking. On January 07 2011 22:52 deconduo wrote: There's no point following LSB's plan if more than a couple of people don't intend to. I personally don't think its that terrible, but it relies on every single townie picking as they are supposed to. Its pretty obvious that won't happen now. Remember, the mafia want's to go with random picking. A plan is necessary. I'm incredibly suspicious of the people who are just dismissing the plan without attempting to even respond to my points or suggesting an alternative. Last time I saw this was in Segunko, with Ace dismissing the no attack plan with no reason. | ||
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On January 08 2011 03:34 JimboSilvers wrote: Well there's two things to consider -LSB magically fixes his plan as soon as he got his role pm LOL -LSB is clearly very stubborn With that in mind my guess is he's a green townie, with an eye towards picking traitor again. If he is mafia why would he bother to change his plan. Since I bet LSB will continue fighting against any objections until the end of time no matter what his role, I propose we just ignore him and his nonsense plan and create something better together. I have something simple and effective but I want to wait until after draft order is set to say anything on it. Why wait after the draft order? Isn't that a great way for the mafia to try to assign roles they want to their own people? If we do it before the draft order comes out, we won't have to worry about the mafia influencing the plan for their own benefit. | ||
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On January 08 2011 03:41 Pigsquirrel wrote: I think we should just focus on denying scum the KP roles. Simply take the CPR and comp vigi within the first few picks, scum is left with only 1 kp, we win. What about the investigative roles? Should we give the scum those? | ||
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On January 08 2011 04:00 Pigsquirrel wrote: Because giving scum role cop is better than giving them a role list? Why? The role cop can be used to find renegade roles and the traitor. Why should we deny the town this power? | ||
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On January 08 2011 05:23 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Eh? I get this version of mafia is centered around people choosing roles, however, Mafia can use almost any role in this setup. As can town. (few roles town doesn't need but still). Anyone who has read the most recent clusterfuck of games should realize centering on trying and making a easily confirmed "town circle" or the like is wasting time. If LSB wanted to be helpful he would have created 3-5 different options of role distribution. Or he could have opted to give his list a "randomized" element where instead of say "choose rolecop" it would be "choose investigative role". I've already stated why randomization is bad. Why do you asssume that it is good? If we randomize the roles, watch as the top 7 all choose rolecop, and no one chooses Joat. In addition, radfield's plan wasn't randomized as much as you think. Look to my analysis of the game I've already linked before There are multiple holes. Add in that there are enough players in this version who know their own personal strengths that certain roles are going to benefit them more highly than others and will most likely just choose those regardless. Could you explain a hole? The emphasis so far in this game is "lets make a list of easy to off targets for mafia / make it easy for them to infiltrate" instead of "lets scumhunt." Bad day 1 start Why is this easier to infiltrate than simple randomness? | ||
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On January 08 2011 06:52 kitaman27 wrote: However, the SK will also be going after certain pro-town roles as well. Combined with the other kill roles and the chance that a couple of the protown roles might go to mafia, they certainly won't be around for 8 days. Mafia won't be able to use the extra two KP directly, but they will still be able to influence their targets, as with a lynch. They may not have the opportunity to go rouge until late game, but I'm sure they won't have any problem when town instructs them to hit another town. Certainly the SK will be a problem. But how would the mafia try to persuade us to use one of the town KP on a role like a doctor or a tracker? They could persuade us to use checks, or fake checks. But that's a great way to figure out scum. Since no one else seems to be suggesting an alternate plan, what is everyone's thoughts on assigning only the anti-town roles that need to be monitored? The top four certainly cannot be allowed to be randomized. Those with the outlined pick should select this role. I would suggest the role blocker be assigned to a slightly higher number, but that is up for debate. The lower tier can hurt the town, but not necessarily kill it. There should at least be some threat that they will be selected in order to deter mafia selection. Maybe sort of probabilistic approach similar to the second game. Prince of Darkness, Politican, and to a lesser extent, Pardoner and God Father have at least some possible pro-town applications so it wouldn't be a total loss if they were selected. The top tier: 1. CPR Doctor 2. Vigilante 3. Copy Cat 10. Role blocker (possibly should be higher) Lower tier: 12. Janitor 13. Prince of Darkness 15. Pardoner 16. Politican 22. God Father How would you guareentee investigative roles or doctor roles? | ||
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On January 08 2011 07:24 JimboSilvers wrote: I lied. My plan isn't simple. But it is still effective  .JIMBOS PLAN Here are the results from the past two PYP games. I was thinking from the perspective of using past game drafting patterns to be able to put the important town roles in a certain area. However I did not consider what lsb is saying, in that I would have no way of proving myself to be town in that time and thus could just as easily be mafia trying to get my buddies what we want. So we'll see how it goes right now though. What I noticed in reading both past games - Thanks Ace for suggesting it! - is that mafia has a very difficult time getting top a number of picks or do not want to for several reasons. As you can see both games they got in the top 2 slots but then their picks start jumping all over the place. There are various reasons for that, as having top picks in these games wasn't always ideal, but it got me thinking. Say the mafia want to get most of the top picks. How do they do it?
2- Mafia picks numbers all over the place and hopes the town clashes a lot. This is purely luck and probability means 1-2 mafia will be in the top 6, which is A-OKAY. 3- They could triple up on a high number e.g 1, then have the other 2 picking likely unique numbers eg 13, and hope everyone else clashes. This gives them a legitimate chance of getting up there in numbers but it also very well might screw them over completely. Mafia have a much easier time assuring themselves a number of picks in the middle, namely by clashing with each other on a high number and spreading some with high numbers unlikely to be picked. So how do you know that this game the mafia all won't just suddenly pick [17][1]? Your plan is akain to saying. "Mafia will pick the number 1, so all people who pick the number 1 are mafia." Can't the mafia predict this, especially since you told them already, so then they would choose not to pick the number one? If anyone has any way the mafia could assure themselves a majority of the top slots, please post so. Otherwise I think I'm onto something.  http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=176529¤tpage=10#197 The reason this is important is where the assigned roles are. We clearly need to have a few roles accountable. The previous plans, and current plan, followed the train of thought that KP boosting and important-to-deny-mafia roles needed to be picked first. What ended up happening was that the first 3 or more slots were sealed up, eg it didn't matter what alignment the people who got them were because they were held on accountability.EG If the prince of darkness acts, something's wrong and he must die. That meant that the best town roles got thrown into 4-something, where the majority of the mafia will be located. This doesn't make sense. We want the pro town roles in the hands of the town and the anti town roles in the hands of ACCOUNTABLE mafia (or town or sk). Superduper Town roles= Jack Bullet Bill Bullet Proof Parity Cop Doctor Veteran In addition there are some solid to mediocre town roles. Role Cop= Mason Tracker Hider Witch Accountable Roles= CPR Doc vigi Roleblocker Copycat - because of the day vigi the infinite kp role point brought up earlier Now you might object that there will be clashes. Yes, there will. And that is not actually that horrible. For one, mafia will clash too. They won't be able to get what they want as easily. And mafia clashing will make other roles better, namely Tracker. A roleblocking mafia gets followed to his roleblock target. A vanilla mafia gets followed to the kill .For two, it's more important that good townies get the really superduper roles and we get a few greens than the really superduper roles die right away because they are known and we're left with the shitty roles. Jack and Bullet Bill and infinitely better than Tracker or Mason. That's why we have witches and doctors It doesn't really matter what alignment comp vigi and CPR doc are as long as we know who they are. If their shots don't follow their assigned targets, then we know they're mafia. So- JIMBOS PROPOSAL -Players 1-6 will pick a very pro town role. Preferably one of those I listed in blue but there are some others like witch that can prove useful too or hider to mess with hits going in the top 6. -Players 7-10 will pick CPR doc, vigi, Roleblocker, and Copycat in that order. Town will vote during the night phase for the kp to use as a type of extra lynches. They don't follow orders, they die. Maybe we should assign Prince as #11? I'm not sure how bad this role actually is for the town? Janitor as #12? Might be nasty. -Everyone else picks what they want. Mafia can pretty much guarantee they will get 1 person in the top 6 somewhere, maybe two as they have 5 people. But that still leaves a 4-5 townies with very powerful roles. We need those roles to win. What's better, the mafia cannot exploit this fact like they can an LSB list because of the bulletproof/veteran threat and the fact that the doctor will likely protect in that area. The things I'm not certain on are should we do anything about the kinda mediocre pro scum roles? Or just tell townies not to pick them and have rolecop know if he gets scum by seeing that pop up? And is 6 the right number for the cutoff? FEEDBACK PEOPLE LETS GOGOGOO 1. Your plan assumes that the mafia can't get into the top six easily. However, this is actually quiet easy. Check out the post I linked 2. The mafia will still know where the super duper town roles are. Role #1 is obviously going to be a super duper role Role #2 is likely to be a super duper role Role #3 is more likely to be a super duper role Role #6 probably is a townie. That's where the mafia is going to hit. Your plan isn't fixing anything. It's basically the same thing as my plan, just there are less blues. 3. The tracker is an important role, so is the rolecop and doctors. I'd rather have the chance of a rolecop dieng, than the very real possibility that we might not have doctors. 4. Again, your plan assumes that the mafia won't be able to snap up that many top roles. I've have explained a method, and also you yourself have explained three methods. I don't think we should assume that they can't 5. What if mafia in roles 1-6 start picking up roles like CPR doc instead? That's a great way to triple mafia KP 6. There will be no Bulletproof/Vet threat because the mafia knows that the top six all picked roles they want to kill. They won't shoot down at the bottom. | ||
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On January 08 2011 12:03 Misder wrote: LSB, if you think that mafia can easily get into the top of the draft, what's preventing them from conforming with your list instead of purposely clashing. For example, if mafia gets pick 1 or 3, they get a role they want, and no one is able to clash with them. Yeah, but they won't be able to use the roles. If extra KP start occuring, we would know that the Vig/CPR Doc is Mafia. For example take PYP2. Mafia was able to pick up the Comp Vig role. But was forced to (try to) shoot the traitor and kill one of his teammates. 1) Guarantee that mafia will get roles a) Since we know the draft order once we pick numbers, if mafia lands on one of the roles that is crucial to mafia, ie vigilante, mafia can relax in getting the role they want. b) Even if mafia doesn't get the role they want according to LSB's list, they may still conform with the list just to deny the town with a useful role ie Bullet Bill c) All the roles are useful for mafia in some way (except role cop, but refer to 2) Firstly remember, the mafia can't use the roles for their own personal gain. I gave the example of the Vigs. In addition if the Bullet Bill starts lieng, that's a great way to find another mafia. 2) Still doesn't stop mafia from clashing with important town roles, esp if mafia ends up with a role that they don't want Lets say that Pick number 2 finds out that he didn't get his role. Obviously we know that pick number 1 lied. Bam. Mafia exposed 2) Plan makes bulletproof and veteran useless, as they can't draw in mafia KP. That's a necessary aspect. I'd rather have an active Role Cop who isn't afraid to claim results than a vet. Also, they are not useless. Not being able to be hit by mafia is a great incentive to be more active and scum hunt harder. 3) Mafia will know who is what role, and is able to target by role instead of in the dark. Remember, we have 4 protection roles. Mafia will still not know if their hit succeeds or not. | ||
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On January 08 2011 08:02 LSB wrote: 2. The mafia will still know where the super duper town roles are. Role #1 is obviously going to be a super duper role Role #2 is likely to be a super duper role Role #3 is more likely to be a super duper role Role #6 probably is a townie. That's where the mafia is going to hit. Your plan isn't fixing anything. It's basically the same thing as my plan, just there are less blues. On January 09 2011 05:27 JimboSilvers wrote: 2- If mafia wants to they can arrange to have the majority of middle picks. This is what has happened both of the last 2 games with mafia getting at least half their players in the middle. They can either do this doubling up on very high numbers eg 1 1 or picking larger unique numbers eg 9 11 13. LSB also showed a way here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=176529¤tpage=10#197 ^That doesn't answer anything. This is where you're plan fails. | ||
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Beneather probably picked [5][x] Pigsquirrel probably picked [5][x] deconduo [4][7] Kenpachi kitaman27 CubEdIn Amber[Light] Barundar LayOffRage bumatlarge Jackal58 Fishball HaploPaithan Eiii BloodyC0bbler zeks Misder aidnai [3][x] JimboSilvers [3][3] GGQ [5][3] Beneather [5][x] Pigsquirrel [5][x] Divinek [5][1] LSB [5][1] | ||
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Its interesting that besides for spots #1, #2, #3, #5 there are no other clashes | ||
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Spots #1, #3, #5. You are obligated to take the roles assigned to you. No if, buts, or whats. All other spots. Please follow this list. Look through the debate on the last few pages for an idea. 1. CPR Doc 2. JOAT 3. Vig 4. Bullet Bill 5. Copy Cat 6. Doctor 7. Role Blocker 8. Doctor 9. Day Vig 10. Role Cop 11. Pardoner 12. Alignment Cop 13. Politican 14. Tracker 15. Mason 16. Witch 17. Hider 18. Janitor 19. Bulletproof 20. Prince of Darkness 21. Veteran 22. God Father It is a good idea to take the blue role assigned to you. This way we know where protections can go. | ||
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Kenpachi kitaman27 CubEdIn Amber[Light] Barundar LayOffRage bumatlarge Jackal58 Fishball HaploPaithan Eiii [2][3] BloodyC0bbler [2][x] zeks [3][1] Misder [3][2] aidnai [3][3] JimboSilvers [3][3] GGQ [5][3] Beneather [5][x] Pigsquirrel [5][x] Divinek [5][1] LSB [5][1] | ||
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Kenpachi kitaman27 CubEdIn Amber[Light] Barundar LayOffRage bumatlarge [1][1] Jackal58 [1][x] Fishball [1-2][x] HaploPaithan [1-2][x] Eiii [2][3] BloodyC0bbler [2][x] zeks [3][1] Misder [3][2] aidnai [3][3] JimboSilvers [3][3] GGQ [5][3] Beneather [5][x] Pigsquirrel [5][x] Divinek [5][1] LSB [5][1] This changes everything If the mafia went by the pick plan I outlined, they would have 5 of the top 8 spots. The town Must follow my plan. Following Jimbo's plan is suicide since A good portion of the top spots is probably mafia. My plan solves for this as many of the top picks are 'watch' picks, that cannot abuse their role. In addition, the information roles are forced to share their results, forcing mafia to stick their heads out to scrutiny. FOS on anyone not following the plan | ||
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That's why roles such as Bulletproof and Vet are at the bottom. Secondly, red roles at the bottom are denying the roles, because if the mafia tries to pick them up, they will be discovered I do agree, vet and Bulletproof can be given flexibility. However, would you agree that it is essential for the Green and Red positions to take their choices? There can be flexibility in blue roles of course | ||
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RED and GREEN spots are obligated to pick their roles 1. CPR Doc 2. JOAT 3. Vig 4. Bullet Bill 5. Copy Cat 6. Doctor 7. Role Blocker 8. Doctor 9. Day Vig 10. Role Cop 11. Pardoner 12. Alignment Cop 13. Politican 14. Tracker 15. Mason 16. Witch 17. Hider 18. Janitor 19. Bulletproof 20. Prince of Darkness 21. Veteran 22. God Father | ||
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All People Please claim your numbers deconduo [4][7] Kenpachi [7][3] kitaman27 [9][1] CubEdIn [11][3] Amber[Light] [11][2] Barundar [13][10] LayOffRage bumatlarge [1][1] Jackal58 [6][9] Fishball [6][20] HaploPaithan Eiii [2][3] BloodyC0bbler zeks [3][1] Misder [3][2] aidnai [3][3] JimboSilvers [3][3] GGQ [5][3] Beneather [5][15] Pigsquirrel Divinek [5][1] LSB [5][1] Please inform me of any mistakes On January 09 2011 16:47 Fishball wrote: Unless I'm missing something, which very well may be (haven't been following closely), people are fake claiming? I don't believe so. I recently read up on draft rules and found I made an incorrect assumption. | ||
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What numbers did you pick? | ||
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We have day 1 to figure this out anyways. Bloodycobbler what did you pick? | ||
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BC, we need to still follow the plan because the blue roles are going to be taken anyways at the top. In addition, spots 5 and 7 are already role denial spots which can give an immediate red read if the mafia misuses the roles, so we could plug a small part of the hole. | ||
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Could you tell us what numbers you picked? This is very important | ||
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1. deconduo [4] [7] 2. Kenpachi [7] [3] 3. kitaman27 [9] [1] 4. Barundar [13] [10] 5. LayOffRage[1] [1] 6. bumatlarge [1] [1] 7. Jackal58 [6] [9] 8. Fishball [6] [20] 9. Amber[Light] [11] [2] 10. CubEdIn [11] [3] 11. HaploPaithan [2] [1-2] 12. Eiii [2] [3] 13. BloodyC0bbler [2] [6] 14. zeks [3] [1] 15. Misder [3] [2] 16. aidnai [3] [3] 17. JimboSilvers [3] [3] 18. GGQ [5] [3] 19. Beneather [5] [15] 20. Pigsquirrel [5] [x] 21. Divinek [5] [1] 22. LSB [5] [1] No one lied. | ||
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bumatlarge lied | ||
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In addition, if you picked traitor and did not recieve it, please claim. | ||
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On January 10 2011 22:29 deconduo wrote: I did not get the role I asked for. Mafia must have some way of manipulating the picks. You are first spot. Can you please confirm with Ace? | ||
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On January 10 2011 23:12 deconduo wrote: Yeah, it was a wrong role PM. panic over lol. Can you ask permission for Ace to confirm that he sent you he wrong role PM? | ||
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On January 11 2011 00:22 Fishball wrote: He gets first pick, he can pick any role. It is impossible for him "not able to get the role he wanted". It only makes sense that Ace sent in the wrong PM, or else deconduo would be an instant first kill target for me. Exactly. That what I am wondering. Is this a scum slip, or actually a mistake on the part of Ace | ||
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On January 11 2011 01:13 Pigsquirrel wrote: Will we know how people died at night, for example from gunshot or defibrillator? Or is that what Ace meant by no clues? Because if we do get to know stuff like that it will basically nullify CPR doc as he absolutely will not be able to use his power without getting lynched the next day. Also, FoS on decon until ace confirms that he got wrong role/other mistake. I don't believe so. But we do know that there are only 2 KP roles the first night (Mafia and SK), so if three KP worth of people are killed/hit, we would know that something was wrong. | ||
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Well, LayoffRage is probably the day vig (if not vanilla), so... | ||
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On January 11 2011 10:24 Fishball wrote: First of all, I don't know what LSB meant by Traitor is suicide. Traitor is not a Village Idiot. He doesn't win if he die. I forgot who I was quoting, but someone wanted to assign the traitor to the draft lift. Only problem is that if you got assigned that spot, the town would lynch you day 1. | ||
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On January 11 2011 12:08 bumatlarge wrote: ##Aidnai An easy choice. If hes not mafia, then fishball's speculation loses some cred, and it would seem mroe likely he picked traitor (still waiting for layoff to post his reasons why), but if aidnai is red, there could be easy scum lynches in that little pack. It's an opportunity on 1st lynch. Doesn't happen all that often. This doesn't sound like analysis Bum. It sounds like the good old "we can get information from this lynch! yay!" I want to warn people that it is incredibly easy to misread Aidnai as scum. I used him in Harry Potter to divert the lynch. | ||
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On January 11 2011 12:14 Beneather wrote: If I'm not corrected but if Aidnai does have traitor then the Copy Cat power works and that person gets traitor as well. Do we really want to work on another traitor? Honestly I wouldn't. We have to be very careful of our first lynch if we lynch a traitor then CopyCat gets that role and we have another traitor. We really just don't want Copy Cat getting the role traitor from our first lynch. Well, if that occurs we just Release the Deconduo! onto the Copycat. | ||
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That way if mafia/sk successfully shoots one of the good blues, it won't be a loss as the copycat will just pick it up | ||
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But as for the pardoner, I agree that the role should be used early to prevent mafia from using it late game to pull off a lylo win. At the same time though, it can prevent a townie from being lynched. | ||
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I'm cool with a Day 1 Pardon plan then if no good target shows up. | ||
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About the Traitor I would like to talk about my experiences as a traitor in PYP2. The key thing I did was kept the town on the topic of the traitor and tried to waste the day lynches on the traitor. This worked, and it was a great way to waste lynches. Instead of wasting our day discussion talking about who is traitor or who is not, we should just focus on other things and work on the traitor at night. But the thing about the traitor was, once I was discovered, the Mafia Compulsive Vig also fell with me, since the Compulsive Vig hit me night 2 and did not kill me. We can use the traitor as a way to link in other roles and drag down mafia. This is an effective way to use our blues and also to confirm a lot of people up top. Two Key Facts about the traitor/copycat 1. The traitor/copycat is a role pick and has no other special powers- The Role Cop could be a great way to find the traitor and Copy Cat. In addition.the traitor won't be able to do what they normally want to do. We can then use this to verify a lot of the people on the list. Here's the Plan. Deconduo will shoot LayOffRage If LayOffRage is killed, deconduo is probably not the traitor. Kenpachi will shoot Amber[Light]. Amber[Light] will Roleblock Kenpachi. If Amber[Light] is the traitor, he won't have the Roleblock ability and will die Kitaman27 will be checked by the Bullet Bill. Kitaman27 should have a gun. If he doesn't he's the traitor. Barundar will be checked by the Rolecop. Insta vertification if Barundar is Copycat/Traitor Fishball will be Tracked. Since Fishball has a role, he should be visiting someone. Night 2, we then will check the remaining people Jackal58, CubEdIn and Kenpachi ![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/vlioD.jpg) A short summary 2. The traitor if hit by a mafia member at night will be converted- The best way to verify our CPR doc and Vig is by having them kill the traitor for us. If they are unable to do it, it could be a way to confirm them. Once we found a traitor. It's Better for the town to use nightkills on it. | ||
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On January 12 2011 04:36 Fishball wrote: I mean, this post alone should ring a bell. LoR only has 48 posts, and is an "experienced" player huh. But LoR being RoL has nothing to do with "us" wanting to kill him. Right now, only Bum and me have stated our reasons why we should lynch LoR. The majority is jumping on the aidnai train. (I don't want to quote your giant post so I'll just do this one) I agree that LoR should be killed as soon as possible, but why should we prefer a lynch over a nightkill? | ||
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Jimbosilvers- 1. He proposed a counterplan that was worse than mine and didn't even attempt to fix anything. He kept on pushing it even though he couldn't answer the flaws I pointed out. This isn't an effort because he thinks he's right. This is because he wants to cause confusion during the drafting phase as to what plan we were going to do. 2. He's hard pushing aidnai. Remember, aidnai is a witch, a very good pro town role. I want to have witch information since it could confirm a few people. It's a really dumb idea to lose this role day 1 In addition, aidnai was busy (he had a good excuse), and aidnai isn't that great at being townlike. I flaged him as scum in Team Mafia and was wrong. Jimbosilvers seems to be going after the easy kill aidnai- If he is not the witch. I'm voting him because I want him to roleclaim Jackel58- I really don't believe that someone would take Copycat that early. However this probably can be rolechecked to clear it up. If people are actually willing to support a Jimbosilvers lynch I'll look in and do a full analysis. | ||
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On January 12 2011 04:59 Amber[LighT] wrote: LSB, who do you want to lynch if you want to wait until night to kill LOR? | ||
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If you want to kill him, do it tomorrow. Losing the witch day 1 is horrible. On January 12 2011 05:12 aidnai wrote: if I am lynched the copy cat will get this role instead. Remember. The Copycat is in Mafia hands Unvote aidnai Vote: Jimbosilvers | ||
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On January 12 2011 05:21 CubEdIn wrote: LSB, a slight problem with your list: What if Kenpachi says "oh I tried shooting Amber but I was blocked" when in fact he is not JOAT. How can that be verified? Kenpachi is not vertified. This is why I included Kenpachi in the list of "who to vertify night 2" On January 12 2011 05:17 Fishball wrote: - "Stirring-up-the-Traitor" topic in PYP2 was already mentioned in my other post, and your post further supports my logic, especially with you being the Traitor in that game. There is one flaw regarding the CV falling with you, as the CV was predicted to fall sooner or later, and hitting the CV was never actually a deciding factor. Regardless, it doesn't affect this game, and you can PM me after the game if you want to discuss. By my logic I am saying that we should make No traitor related lynches at all. Unless it comes with analysis. Jimbosilvers is someone I want to flip. I was expecting someone to come up with a plan. But not one that does the exact same thing that I does, but worse. It seems like the mafia just stuck Jimbo out there to try to cause confusion on role picks Also, if they are both scum (but Kenpachi NOT lying about his role), this would clear them both up after Kenpachi being role checked. We need to devote some extra time to this if something doesn't happen after night 1. But I like the general idea. As for the lynch, I still see no good reason to change to LoR. Aidnai seems just as good a target so far, and if we lynch a townie at least we're not killing a very promising one. Why change from LoR? As you put it best - If Deconduo can shock LayOffRage, he can't be the Traitor right? Not "probably not". Anyways, I think you're way ahead of yourself right now. We need to lynch somebody first, and you're already talking about Night, and assigning actions to everyone. I don't mind you thinking about Night, but you need take account of Day as well. You really want to take charge of the game and tell everyone what to do, do you? For good or bad, this will be an extremely hard feat. Just showing that it's possible to confirm people at night. Of course it will be a group effort | ||
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On January 12 2011 05:24 CubEdIn wrote: Ummm... ok. Seems very convenient that he's got the one role we can't really lynch on day 1 but fine. ##unvote aidnai ##vote LayOffRage Note that we should not allow focus to come off aidnai though. He was assigned that role. On January 12 2011 05:28 aidnai wrote: About jimbo, his plan may have been worse, it may not have been. I honestly couldn't tell (didn't have time to figure it out and it's moot now). But the way he attacked me looks to me like townie who is taking himself too seriously. Even though I'm sure mafia want me lynched, they don't have motivation to be the name you remember afterwards when I flip green. They'll be the ones that sheep along with the crowd, not the ones screaming and raging. So no, I wouldn't support a jimbo lynch. Because Mafia totally did that in XXXV. As for jimbo, I think he's trying to pass off as what you are saying. I'm thinking over your plan LSB. Once again, we're talking about finding and exposing every single power role town has. In a normal game this is horrible, why is it good now? Well, the power roles are already exposed. We know where they are. (Hint, 2,4,6) One last thought (trying to keep my thoughts together so I'm not always quadruple posting), we can actually use the cpr doc as a doctor on the night that I use my ability. This would be a way to confirm several of our blues while killing a lot less people. Dunno if this will work (Since your ability take place after everyone submits their actions I believe) maybe ask ace? | ||
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On January 12 2011 07:41 Kenpachi wrote: exactly. Dont people who didnt get their role get a leftover role? Nope, they flip vanilla | ||
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On January 12 2011 08:46 HaploPaithan wrote: I just don't think we should punish a player for not following the LSB's plan when we had no agreement to follow the plan. Kenpachi apparently felt that there was a more important role to take before JOAT. It would seem that he took Copycat. Copycat is a pretty good role for both scum and townies to have. I don't really fault him for taking it. If we're lucky, a lower pick that was not following the plan tried to pick up JOAT. What Kenpachi did was drastically anti-town. It was calculated First Kenpachi denied the JOAT role because everyone else thought he took JOAT. We just lost a huge role Secondly it denied the Copy cat role, something the town could have used. If Jackel58 still had the copy-cat role, we could lynch aidnai without worrying about his role. However when some random person decides to hide a red role, we can't trust him. Thirdly, no townie would take the Copy Cat role, because we already put the copycat role in Jackel58's hands. | ||
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On January 12 2011 08:57 Kenpachi wrote: not scummy.. dunno but it seemed like he was testing out the plan to see what happens. Also, if im CC, why the fuck you lynch me? Are you 100% certain RoL is Traitor or something? i didnt see that yet. We lynch you because you denied the JOAT and took the copy cat, a role that we were watching. As for RoL, we are lynching him because we don't have a better target (We want aidnai's information instead), and we need to make sure that there is a Traitor in the game. Personally I'd rather see Jimbo's head fall, but more realistically RoL is going to die sometime. | ||
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On January 12 2011 09:01 HaploPaithan wrote: You are acting like people agreed with your plan. Like I already said, a lot of people did not. You can't treat it as if people were doing it. He had no guarantee that Jackel58 was going to take Copycat. While I don't agree with taking Copycat over JOAT, it doesn't make him scum. It seems likely that he did take copycat, however he hasn't actually said that he did. We could also be losing a powerful role, if we were to kill Kenpachi so early. He has to have something else good if he wasn't CPR or Copycat. I think we should be watching Kenpachi, but not lynching him day 1. He could still be of great use to us. Simple question. You are draft pick 11. Did you consider taking JOAT? Of course not, because you expected Kenpachi to take it. Likewise, we expected deconduo to take CPR doc, so no one took it. And Jackel58 was expected to take Copycat. If he has something good, well, he can claim and get protection. But would you lynch him if all he has is Copycat? unvote Vote: Kenpachi | ||
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On January 12 2011 09:05 Kenpachi wrote: No Im giving you heads up that you cant eliminate possibilities when anything can happen In other words Kenpachi took the CC role, and can't claim a different role without being outed. | ||
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On January 12 2011 09:08 Kenpachi wrote: Yea. im not CC or JOAT Are you bulletproof? | ||
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On January 12 2011 09:10 HaploPaithan wrote: I didn't take JOAT because I was pick 11. I figured someone in the t10 would have taken it by now. If i were pick 3. I would have considered it. Each player might value certain roles higher than others. If he is copycat, I still don't want to kill him today. When day 2 starts, we will know what role he has or what roles he could potentially have and then make a decision from there. Exactly. If you didn't take it, why should anyone else take it? Pick three was assigned Vig. It's far better for the town if he picks vig so he should have taken it. Although he claimed he wasn't, assume Kenpachi was Copycat. Why wouldn't you kill him if he was copycat? The person right underneath him would be picking it, so there would be no benefit to the town if he chose copycat. He did it under anti-town motivations | ||
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On January 12 2011 23:04 Barundar wrote: What game are you refering to? This time you didn't provide evidence before your vote. LOR giving town useful information was my reason not to vote for him, but I posted that before the lynch not after. Fishball's reasons for lynching him was for information, not beceause he was scummy. That was pokemafia. On January 13 2011 02:25 GGQ wrote: I know it's not long until night phase is over now, but I want to suggest that doctors protect our experienced and active players. In Pokemafia and XXXV, mafia just killed all the experienced, active greens leading to a weak and helpless town. I think that good scumhunters are more important than any role in the game. I like this plan! Protect me! I have a 100% successrate when I made detailed analysis. But in all seriousness, the playerlist is pretty packed with people I trust to stay active, and with 3 Town KP we deal with inactives/lurkers. With roles such as bullet bill, tracker, and Role Cop. We don't even need to worry about analysis. Considering that the top 8 roles are all murky, I would focus elsewhere with protection. For example zeks at #14 should be the tracker. Bumatlarge at #10 should be the role cop. It isn't really a bad idea to protect the doctors either. As for deconduo. I'm fine with him hitting Kenpachi, Jackal58, or Fishball | ||
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On January 13 2011 03:26 kitaman27 wrote: @LSB, relying on roles rather than analysis? You know better than that, don't you? I'm not sure why I would be considered murkey, with the exception of the traitor plausibility which I can confirm tomorrow. I wouldn't mind a medic on myself and deconduo considering a MIA copycat with an extra kp would be extremely dangerous. Have you seen recent TL analysis? XXXV was a game of lynching and shooting people who actually decided to think rather than blindly following the general opinion. I'd rather not trust this game on the so call 'analysis' thankyouvery much. | ||
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In addition, the mafia doesn't have a reason to recruit the traitor, waste of night actions. | ||
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On January 13 2011 05:20 Amber[LighT] wrote: Just because he uses the ability doesn't confirm any alignment... Nor does it confirm that he is actually the CPR doc. However, it could shed light on the Copycat issue. On January 13 2011 05:24 Amber[LighT] wrote: Don't we already know this information? It seems wasteful to check you off the list of people who listened to LSB. We're so hooked on finding the traitor, seems counter productive. All three people are included in the hunt against the traitor. Its not counter productive | ||
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Unless Kenpachi is mafia, there probably isn't a JOAT. | ||
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I'm guessing someone sucks at hiding. | ||
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Barundar Divinek If your on right now, could you please claim your actions? If you were a doctor, it would be nice to know who you visited. | ||
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I'd rather wait for HaploPaithan's claim. My position on who to lynch will be determined on this. | ||
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If I had to pick the mafia team and their roles Deconduo- CC Kenpachi- Some Mafia role Mafia Member 1- CPR Doc Mafia Member 2- JOAT | ||
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On January 13 2011 14:08 kitaman27 wrote: I fear the day vig might try to take me out due to inferiority complex  Apparently the copycat gets the role that was first sent in as a kill so there is a 33% chance that it is the day vig. You're still fine! There was 5 potential deaths, and 4 KP. For the sake of things, lets say that GGQ was killed by the mafia. Barunder by the SK, and we know that Deconduo killed Jackel58. Divinek probably hid behind Barunder so that's why he died. That leaves one question. Who hit HaploPaithan? I believe a renegade JOAT hit HaploPaitan. And really, as kenpachi said himself On January 13 2011 14:00 Kenpachi wrote: First off, Mafia would not choose JOAT. I was #2 and i never said anything about your plan before the game started so they would assume i took JOAT. Unless of course, Kenpachi was mafia and passed the role to someone further below on the list. So either Kenpachi is mafia or there are two SKs Vote: Kenpachi | ||
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On January 12 2011 08:58 LSB wrote: I have a very good reason for not saying anything about my role. I drafted Godfather and flipped Vanilla instead. However I did not say anything Firstly, it would cause unessisary cofustion for the town Secondly, it would deny the godfather fakeclaim against DT checks. Once I let loose that the godfather is wild, all mafia will claim godfather once the DT checks them. Lastly, I suspected some other townie tried to deny the role (because in reality, the godfather isn't that benificial to the mafia), so I kept silent so that I could vertify a godfather claim. Well that leaves deconduo Unovte Vote Deconduo | ||
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On January 13 2011 15:07 LSB wrote: I response to Aidnai's question about me being godfather I replied I drafted Godfather and flipped Vanilla instead. However I did not say anything Firstly, it would cause unessisary cofustion for the town Secondly, it would deny the godfather fakeclaim against DT checks. Once I let loose that the godfather is wild, all mafia will claim godfather once the DT checks them. Lastly, I suspected some other townie tried to deny the role (because in reality, the godfather isn't that benificial to the mafia), so I kept silent so that I could vertify a godfather claim. Well that leaves deconduo Unovte Vote Deconduo Whoops, the second reason didn't comeout right It denies the godfather fake accusation against dt checks. With the godfather unknown, mafia can claim confirmed townies are the godfather, possibly causing problems lategame. | ||
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On January 13 2011 15:02 kitaman27 wrote: Let me get this straight. You are a town godfather, yet you request the day vig hit, which would prevent you from using your "town" kp after lynch? Reading the role PMs hasn't really been kenpachi's strong point this game | ||
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Of the 4 KP. I count 1 Mafia. 1 Deconduo SK 2 Unknown | ||
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Search for the traitor kitaman27 (Vig) Fishball Amber[Light] (roleblocker) CubEdIn (doctor) I propose that Kitaman27 shoots Amber[Light], so if Amber doesn't block it. He dies. Fair enough? That would knock two people off the list (technically it doesn't knock Kitaman off the list, but I'm getting a green read from him). | ||
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Fishball's not a doctor, CubEIn isn't a doctor.... | ||
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On January 14 2011 02:43 CubEdIn wrote: It's spelled "You're". You know, when insulting someone, it's nice if you'd make proper use of your official language. It would make you look less dumb. Also, it's not a fake claim at all. I really am Doctor. I just figured Mafia would have less reason to hit me if i seemed more dangerous. So we do have doctors, they just don't work as they should. Wait... so why does you're role seem less dangerous? You could have just claimed that you protected Kenpachi and so that you think you're Paranoid Doctor. Anyways, I'm kool with deconduo live. Unvote Deconduo | ||
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On January 14 2011 02:44 kitaman27 wrote: I would consider not lynching you if you wanted to trade survival for day vig shot and sk kp of the town's choice. Your win condition requires you to want to live and this might be your best shot. You never know what might happen later on ^_^ If I'm in lylo with Deconduo and a mafia. I'll let deconduo win! | ||
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Cube 4 people were shot last night GGQ HaploPaithan Barunder Jackel58 Aidani protected HaploPaitan. And Divinek hid behind Barunder or something. One of the shots was mafia. One was deconduo. We're missing two shots | ||
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On January 14 2011 02:52 CubEdIn wrote: @LSB: I was more dangerous if the mafia thought I could kill townies. I can't, at best I'm killing myself if I defend a red. But that's a small chance overall. By making up a role? I don't really buy that. I think you're forgetting what kind of game we are playing, a pick you're power game with set roles. All right, a few questions then 1) What do you think we should do with Deconduo? 2) If we don't lynch you, who should we lynch? | ||
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On January 14 2011 02:56 CubEdIn wrote: Ok, got it. But we still have JOAT, correct? (If Kenpachi turns out mafia then surely Mafia would've gotten this role). And for the extra hit, how can we make sure that aidnai really did rescue someone? It's almost impossible for Aidnai to predict where all the hits would have landed. No one would be able to guess that Divinek would have died. Unless of course, mafia somehow controlled 4 KP, which is a redic assumption Although we cannot know for certain that Haplo was actually targeted, I would say that Aidani was pretty open about it, and that's enough for me. | ||
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On January 14 2011 03:08 CubEdIn wrote: Me? I would go after Deconduo and Kenpachi. No doubt about it. They wronged the town in the worst ways possible: letting mafia have two of the top roles in the game, increasing Mafia KP drastically, etc. Deconduo would be first on the list. So you think that Kenpachi is town and should be punished for not following the plan? | ||
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So you are saying that deconduo isn't the SK and the mafia killed Jackal? | ||
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His reasoning for a lynch is incredibly sketchy. He's saying we should lynch people based on how beneficial they are to the town, regardless of their alignment. He's completely ignoring the issue on whether someone is red or green. This is a straightforward attempt at misdirecting the lynch. | ||
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On January 14 2011 05:05 CubEdIn wrote: 2. deconduo either missed CPR or said he missed CPR, but CPR has still been chosen => Mafia knew what he picked => He is red. How do you know that CPR was still chosen? Also, we aren't letting the KP float around. Suppose Deconduo is red, because we are telling him where to shoot, we essentially control mafia KP. 4. The mafia didn't think it was a problem killing at least one of the people who could be traitor. Turns out two died already, so there most likely isn't more than 1 red in the top 8 (traitor doesn't count) What are you talking about? Jackel58 was killed by deconduo. Barundar was a Bullet Bill snipe. So, based on this, I would definitely lynch deconduo. It's what I'd do, and I'd gladly 'sacrifice' myself if deconduo dies. I fail to see how his death will hurt the town, but I know that mine won't bring any new information to the game. This is incredibly interesting. I want to wait a while for others to throw their two cents in before commenting on this And all you'll do is go "oh well, he played badly". And sweep it under the rug. Killing one of the more obvious suspects is bound to get more information. Just my two cents. We don't lynch for information. Lynching for information is a horrible idea since the information can be gotten from careful analysis anyways. | ||
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On January 14 2011 05:39 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Woo, time for analysis time. Lets see how much hate it gets me. HI LSB! *waves* remember me? Maybe you don't but you won't after this I swear! HI! Now everyone keep in mind, THIS IS ALL PREGAME. It has been turned down by citizen, fishball, ace, incog, and Ver. Now, this is a pretty decent group of players that hated the plan. Now lets see what happens as the first day approaches. Ok everyone, I know what your thinking? why is he quoting so many peoples posts. Simple, This is an example of all the kickback this plan got, from pre game, into number drafting. STILL, he pushed this plan. It was pushed all the way up till the draft picks were assigned, and continued into the current day where people "should have picked" specific roles. However, if you think the whole idea of pushing this plan is bad, keep in mind he sat back and did not claim he didn't recieve his role. Normally this wouldn't be considered a bad thing, except for reasons like this. Now, he has had more posts obviously, but the majority of his pregame/draft pick/day 1/beginning of day 2 is now up quoted. See the pattern? Very little is actually offered. He pushes a plan that is agreed upon to be anti town by the majority. He then after failing to get his own role via the draft pick sits back and asks for people to claim, repeatedly. Its an information hunt, building who has x role. We then have him refuse to claim when asked when he was assigned one of the roles that was supposed to claim into the main thread if it was taken by someone else. Yeah, and why did I push the plan? You seemed to have ignored this post. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=176529¤tpage=8#145 If you still don't understand why I pushed the plan, I'll ask a question. Would you rather have Kenpachi be godfather, or JOAT? Secondly, the plan is not anti-town if followed correctly. I proposed it because it controlled KP and allowed the investigative roles to do their work.If you want to argue about whether the plan is good or bad, then do so. Don't quote people like JimboSilver's who's plan was worse, Amber[Light] who was flat out wrong about how much number clash there will be, and some more people just stating an opinion with no reasoning. If you want, I can stick up PMs with me discussing the plan with Incog See that last part there? HE DIDN"T FOLLOW HIS OWN PLAN. Period. He didn't follow the plan he was trying to push, he tried to farm information from people. He refused to claim, but still tried to call the shots on what other roles are doing. Plus, most of his posts are fluff. Go read the thread. And if you want to decide whether my posts are fluff please analyze them I realize that I have not been the most active of people, but this is getting ridiculous. A player who has played this game so anti town is unbelievable that A) he is still be listened to B) He isn't dead yet C) Everyone is oblivious to points A and B. What do you mean by B? Everyone just sit back and re read his posts. Aside from his "plan" that next to no one followed (including himself no less!), he has posted very little contributions to the thread aside from trying to bandwagon kenpachi and aidnai. Today he begins the hunt for the traitor (which I am equally as bad for), and speculating on roles. This is a flat out lie. I was against the aidnai lynch from the start. In addition after Kenpachi claimed godfather I confirmed and defended him. In addition, I am not hunting for the traitor. The hunt for the Copy Cat was a night role confirming game where we were trying to net a red. Todays target of CubE... I don't want to repeat myself so you can just look at my posts. And what's bad about speculating about roles? Sure, if that's all I did, I understand. However I have done much more, and someone has to do it else we get people like CubE running around who thinks Deconduo is some kind of Mafia CPR Doc. | ||
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On January 14 2011 05:17 CubEdIn wrote: Right, if he's Day Vig. But what if he is, indeed CPR, or night vig or w/e? Then you're not controlling anything. And until you ask him to shoot someone, he can off people at night easily. I asked: are we 100% sure about his role? I think it would be hilarious if Deconduo just killed CubEdIn right now to confirm his role On January 14 2011 05:35 Eiii wrote: ...now that I think about it, the only explanation I can think of for him passing on CPR doc for CC-- as SK OR mafia-- would be if he was mafia and wanted a teammate a couple picks down to get it instead of him. I'm having a really hard time justifying why, as SK, he would take CC instead of more KP. Deconduo claims he was drunk, and since he is Irish I believe him. Also posting this + Show Spoiler + On January 10 2011 22:29 deconduo wrote: I did not get the role I asked for. Mafia must have some way of manipulating the picks. Was a really dumb idea. Or a brilliant gamble. | ||
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On January 14 2011 09:18 Pigsquirrel wrote: I'd rather have LSB out of this game along with all the information he has been fishing. I never really viewed BC as very scummy, but LSB has just given me bad vibes all along, not to mention pushing that massively scum-favored plan as hard as he did. Why is the plan scum-favored? | ||
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On January 14 2011 08:57 Eiii wrote: 'I was drunk and accidentally made a horrible decision' isn't something we should let fly :/ Yes but he's also the SK, and its fun watching the mafia squirm trying to figure out how they can get him lynched. | ||
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On January 14 2011 09:49 Fishball wrote: Anyways, to summarize what I'm trying to say, is that BC has been on my list since the beginning, and still is. However, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt as I do agree with a lot of the stuff he has said about LSB. It moreso caught my eye when BC pointed out how LSB did not follow his own plan. On January 14 2011 10:51 zeks wrote: i'd prefer we narrow down the traitor list ... but if we had to choose between LSB / BC i'd choose LSB for orchestrating this whole fiasco and now pretty much all our roles are fished out. And the fact that he tried to get us all to buy into the plan and he didnt buy into his own plan. I drafted godfather. What do you mean I didn't buy into/follow the plan? BC is just stating random lies | ||
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On January 14 2011 11:57 Fishball wrote: I hope this is not selective reading on your part, as it would just make people focus on you more. I'm talking about this section: + Show Spoiler + On January 10 2011 13:30 LSB wrote: If you were assigned a red role and did no recieve it. Please Claim In addition, if you picked traitor and did not recieve it, please claim. On January 10 2011 13:56 LSB wrote: To be more specific. If roles 2,3,4,5,7,18,20 followed the plan and did not get their role, please claim. On January 11 2011 12:36 LSB wrote: Jackal58 should be the copycat. But as for the pardoner, I agree that the role should be used early to prevent mafia from using it late game to pull off a lylo win. At the same time though, it can prevent a townie from being lynched. On January 12 2011 04:53 LSB wrote: aidnai. Can you please roleclaim? On January 12 2011 08:54 aidnai wrote: about your night plan LSB, barundar's verification is subject to being checked by a role cop, fishball's is subject to having a tracker play along with us. Zeks already said he's not going with your plan, so there's a good chance we don't have a tracker. Eiii did agree to pick rolecop, but he hasn't mentioned if he got it or if he'll check barundar. If we don't get these checks, that leaves a lot of wiggle room for scum. Also You the godfather LSB? On January 12 2011 08:58 LSB wrote: I have a very good reason for not saying anything about my role. On January 13 2011 13:34 LSB wrote: This is an important question. HaploPaithan, are you the doctor? On January 13 2011 13:50 LSB wrote: Kenpachi Claimed that he wasn't the CC. I'd rather wait for HaploPaithan's claim. My position on who to lynch will be determined on this. On January 13 2011 13:58 LSB wrote: I don't think Kita is the CC. If I had to pick the mafia team and their roles Deconduo- CC Kenpachi- Some Mafia role Mafia Member 1- CPR Doc Mafia Member 2- JOAT You can argue that having people come fourth with their results if they did not receive their intended roles, was not "part of your original plan", but that is just playing with words, and you know what I'm getting at. Your draft was only questioned when Kenpachi claimed GF. You say you've already explained that you have legitimate reasons to not announce that you did not receive the GF, but yet you still push for the results from others. What makes you think they don't have legitimate reasons? What makes you think others should share said information, but not you? No, I'm not saying whether it was right or wrong to question others. All I'm saying is, everything is relevant. For all that matters, we don't know if you had drafted GF or not, and you have no way to prove it unless a Role Cop (if we have one) checks you and comes fourth with the result; That, or you die and flip. There are plenty of room to play mind games here. Although you try to ignore my reasonig, you dance around the fundamental issue. The fact that I stayed silent was better for the town because It confirmed Kenpachi Not only do you ignore this, you ignore my three other points. Not all information is usefull. However something such as a traitor not recieving his role is increadible usefull. Speaking of which Deconduo is CC Kenpachi is Godfather Kitaman is Vig Baunder and Jackel58 are dead CubEdIn is Medic Amber[Light] is roleblocker That leaves you as traitor. I'm actually flattered that you are trying to eliminate me with reasoning, however flawed | ||
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LSB
United States5171 Posts
Vote Fishball As for Kenpachi not being godfather, that would mean someone above BC is the godfather, and when I look at the role list it seems unlikely. | ||
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United States5171 Posts
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On January 14 2011 14:24 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Regardless of you saying its a lie, you voted for him, showing that even if you "disagreed" with the wagon you still jumped on it. No excuse at all. If you have convictions that someone is town, you don't vote for them, period. You have completely misrepresented and twisted my actions The point of my vote was to pressure Aidnai into roleclaiming. Why would I want him to roleclaim? Because he was the witch and it is an important town role that can confirm itself an save a person. Also LSB, speculating on who has what role is awesome, but guess what, its also fing useless to a degree. We can figure out till the cows come home that someone is a medic, however, that doesn't tell us if they are mafia. YOUR ACTIONS ALL GAME HAVE BEEN ANTI TOWN. Simple. You may just be playing horrifically as town, but when every action is anti town, that says a lot about the player. So you want us to kill the witch? Intresting... The moving of the bandwagon off of aidnai was because we wanted him to be able to prevent mafia/sk KP. In my book that's something that is good. What you're advocating is pretending we don't know anything about the roles, when there already is a clear rolelist that has been circulated ever since the number drafting phase. Don't give me any excuses like "Oh but mafia doesn't know 100%", yeah if mafia didn't know 100%, why is Barunder dead right now? However, you getting random people to rise up and defend you is supplying the town with information it needs to find the reds, cause this sort of situation flushes them out nicely. This is all WIFORM. This argument doesn't make sense at all. | ||
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LSB
United States5171 Posts
On January 14 2011 22:35 BloodyC0bbler wrote: dude, again, this shows your lack of experience. I DISPLAYED WHERE THEIR ERROR WAS. When someone makes a massive fuck up you FoS them, period. Of the three I have pointed out two were FoS, and one is a legimate push. You can easily tell the difference based on the level of analysis I did on LSB compared to the other two. Great, so know you are pulling the experience card? Firstly, I did not make an error. You still have refused to address my reasons and you just simply pretend they don't exist As for salem. As the host I can say there were multiple situations going on, and the only "unlucky" side was mafia infiltrating the circle as quickly as it did. The general pretense on which the game was played was bad. The writeups and general opinions on that game have been written and have pointed out the flaws of that game. I only used it as you compared LSB and DrH, and I opted for a game that most shows the correlation between the two as LSB has a habit of making plans I disagree with/I think are bad. The difference between me and DrH is that my plans, when followed work. XXX RAM And if you guys actually listened to what I wrote in XXXV the game would have turned out incredibly different. The reason why you don't see me as much is because the mafia makes it a point to kill me so I can't lead the plan. Annul tunneling me in XXXV, me getting nightkilled in XXX. Now Fishball (and possibly you) in PYP3 The key issue is that you aren't willing to actually debate the plan besides a simple statement of "I don't agree with it". This shows that your fears are baseless and rather because of mafia orientation. | ||
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United States5171 Posts
On January 15 2011 01:26 deconduo wrote: Have you guys decided who you want me to day vig yet? Kill Fishball. If he is Traitor/Mafia, we should lynch BC If he is town, you can lynch me. That's how sure I am | ||
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United States5171 Posts
LSB is town and just fingered two mafia. Everyone seems to ignore this. | ||
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Should have remembered, once a backstabber, always a backstaber... | ||
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United States5171 Posts
On January 22 2011 17:10 LunarDestiny wrote: Serial Killer won. Holy shit. LSB needs to take lesson from THE MAN. Hey! I didn't count on BC being there! I planned it around the player list, I didn't see any big mafia hunters there, so I figured out that if I could neutralize the blue threat I should be good. Admit it, the "Lets give LSB the location of the Bulletbill and the Tracker" plan was genius. On January 22 2011 17:16 Ace wrote: Yea I gotta say LSB that was major balls to push that Scummy plan through. I think if you just didn't rolefish you woulda lived a bit longer. Townies actually went a long with it and I was like oh no....Scum win in 5 days v_v Hey hey, scum wouldn't have won that fast, I'd just mow them down with my sk gun! (Of course, after I've dealt with the Bulletbill and the Tracker) On January 22 2011 18:12 aidnai wrote: 1) LSB's plan was horrible for town. I regret that I did not pay much attention during this stage of the game. I know LSB loves his plans, I didn't see anything wrong until BC did his analysis. Direct results of the plan: -Mafia got CC and CPR doc rather safely, it only slipped away from them because of later errors. -Mafia got a fairly accurate role list -etc Yep this was a big problem I identified. But if I was mafia I wouldn't have done that, I would have taken Godfather instead of CC. The plan was more 'anti-mafia' than straight up randomness. However, if I was town, I'd run something that looks more like Hesmyrr's plan, and place the doctors at the bottom, so that the traitor doesn't mess with the doctor picks. On January 22 2011 18:58 Incognito wrote: Honestly I'm not a fan of the hider role. Its weaker than vet, and doesn't seem like that fun of a role. It would have been useful for SK, as it allows the SK to not be tracked, and explain his bulletproofness. I picked it, but Divinek sniped it out of my hands | ||
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