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I have awakened from my slumber
/in
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besides I need to fill out my post count AMIRITE GUYS
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48 hours is not a long time to find scum. Let's start now.
LSB's blue plan is pretty meh. It's not a good plan of attack for our Zams to check lurkers and inactives; they should be checking people who could be scum, including whoever is contributing the most. Keep in mind that all the mafia needs to do is to distract and confuse the town enough so that they make poor decisions.
@Oceanic: Inactives don't pay attention to the thread and don't vote, and so the mafia can just target the active players until they have a decisive vote advantage. Most inactives that return late will have missed most of the arguments and will be too lazy to read through. And inactives that never show up are just modkilled.
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Hesmyrr with the insubstantial "I agree" post. Let's watch out for him.
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On December 10 2010 10:11 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 10:02 d3_crescentia wrote: 48 hours is not a long time to find scum. Let's start now.
LSB's blue plan is pretty meh. It's not a good plan of attack for our Zams to check lurkers and inactives; they should be checking people who could be scum, including whoever is contributing the most. Keep in mind that all the mafia needs to do is to distract and confuse the town enough so that they make poor decisions.
Remember, the town's best weapon is analysis. By checking the inactives, we flush out the mafia to the limelight where they easily could be found. We want the mafia to attempt to distract the town, this way we can catch onto what they are doing. The town has to be vigilant to guard against these attempts + Show Spoiler +Discussing a plan is one of the best ways to generate activity and catch a scum btw I'd rather we just kill the inactives. I think checking them is a waste.
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On December 10 2010 10:23 Hesmyrr wrote: Moreover D1 lynches are always crapshoot. It is good and fine to publicly discuss and prod one's suspects, but at least waiting until D2 so one have more actual data to support the case on him/her seems just better. This is a large setup so we cannot just afford to let all the lurkers pass-by. They're always crapshoot because we have players that go about finding scum in a crappy way.
I suggest that everyone else vote for you as well.
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On December 10 2010 10:28 tube wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 10:21 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 10:19 jcarlsoniv wrote:On December 10 2010 10:17 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 10:15 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 10 2010 10:11 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 10:02 d3_crescentia wrote: 48 hours is not a long time to find scum. Let's start now.
LSB's blue plan is pretty meh. It's not a good plan of attack for our Zams to check lurkers and inactives; they should be checking people who could be scum, including whoever is contributing the most. Keep in mind that all the mafia needs to do is to distract and confuse the town enough so that they make poor decisions.
Remember, the town's best weapon is analysis. By checking the inactives, we flush out the mafia to the limelight where they easily could be found. We want the mafia to attempt to distract the town, this way we can catch onto what they are doing. The town has to be vigilant to guard against these attempts + Show Spoiler +Discussing a plan is one of the best ways to generate activity and catch a scum btw I'd rather we just kill the inactives. I think checking them is a waste. The problem is that Lynching an inactive takes up an entire town lynch, which is far more useful and powerful than a DT check. Our lynches must work twords lowering mafia KP. At the same time, DTs must be used to work towards lowering mafia KP too. Analysis is great, but it can only go so far before WIFOM kicks in and confirmation is needed. Again, what do you propose to do about inactives? yeah i still think we shouldn't kill them yet like i said, the inactives would be more likely to be the ones who have just started playing, and either ended up not really caring or just not having anything to say due to inexperience or something basically, there are 48+ hours left, if we do decide something about inactives, we should do it later, when more people have had a chance to not simply be labeled "inactive" i don't get how after 33 games of tl mafia somehow we now decide to be going into deep discussion over what should be done about inactives This kind of happens every game.
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On December 10 2010 10:31 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 10:26 jcarlsoniv wrote:On December 10 2010 10:21 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 10:19 jcarlsoniv wrote:On December 10 2010 10:17 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 10:15 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 10 2010 10:11 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 10:02 d3_crescentia wrote: 48 hours is not a long time to find scum. Let's start now.
LSB's blue plan is pretty meh. It's not a good plan of attack for our Zams to check lurkers and inactives; they should be checking people who could be scum, including whoever is contributing the most. Keep in mind that all the mafia needs to do is to distract and confuse the town enough so that they make poor decisions.
Remember, the town's best weapon is analysis. By checking the inactives, we flush out the mafia to the limelight where they easily could be found. We want the mafia to attempt to distract the town, this way we can catch onto what they are doing. The town has to be vigilant to guard against these attempts + Show Spoiler +Discussing a plan is one of the best ways to generate activity and catch a scum btw I'd rather we just kill the inactives. I think checking them is a waste. The problem is that Lynching an inactive takes up an entire town lynch, which is far more useful and powerful than a DT check. Our lynches must work twords lowering mafia KP. At the same time, DTs must be used to work towards lowering mafia KP too. Analysis is great, but it can only go so far before WIFOM kicks in and confirmation is needed. Again, what do you propose to do about inactives? Well, here is my thought process. Wasting a lynch on an inactive sucks. However, I would prefer to use a lynch than a DT. Using a lynch is hit or miss, but it only wastes one action, while making more headway to finding scum with the DT. Using the DT on inactives pretty much wastes the DT if it is on town, while a lynch on a player is still a bit hit or miss (unless good analysis is done), and accidentally lynching an active townie would be more hurtful than an inactive townie. I am hoping it does not come to this and that everyone contributes though. I would love for a game without a bagillion modkills. Wait. What? Lynch is less important than a DT check? Seconded. That is kind of bullshit.
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On December 10 2010 10:35 Hesmyrr wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 10:25 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 10 2010 10:23 Hesmyrr wrote: Moreover D1 lynches are always crapshoot. It is good and fine to publicly discuss and prod one's suspects, but at least waiting until D2 so one have more actual data to support the case on him/her seems just better. This is a large setup so we cannot just afford to let all the lurkers pass-by. They're always crapshoot because we have players that go about finding scum in a crappy way. I suggest that everyone else vote for you as well. Chances of finding scum D2 > Chances of finding scum D1 always just purely on the basis that amount of information available will increase as the game progresses. So let's increase the amount of information available now. Why aren't you a good lynch candidate? You've contributed virtually nothing to the thread and are encouraging us to take a passive role in finding scum.
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On December 10 2010 10:42 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 10:34 jcarlsoniv wrote:On December 10 2010 10:31 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 10:26 jcarlsoniv wrote:On December 10 2010 10:21 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 10:19 jcarlsoniv wrote:On December 10 2010 10:17 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 10:15 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 10 2010 10:11 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 10:02 d3_crescentia wrote: 48 hours is not a long time to find scum. Let's start now.
LSB's blue plan is pretty meh. It's not a good plan of attack for our Zams to check lurkers and inactives; they should be checking people who could be scum, including whoever is contributing the most. Keep in mind that all the mafia needs to do is to distract and confuse the town enough so that they make poor decisions.
Remember, the town's best weapon is analysis. By checking the inactives, we flush out the mafia to the limelight where they easily could be found. We want the mafia to attempt to distract the town, this way we can catch onto what they are doing. The town has to be vigilant to guard against these attempts + Show Spoiler +Discussing a plan is one of the best ways to generate activity and catch a scum btw I'd rather we just kill the inactives. I think checking them is a waste. The problem is that Lynching an inactive takes up an entire town lynch, which is far more useful and powerful than a DT check. Our lynches must work twords lowering mafia KP. At the same time, DTs must be used to work towards lowering mafia KP too. Analysis is great, but it can only go so far before WIFOM kicks in and confirmation is needed. Again, what do you propose to do about inactives? Well, here is my thought process. Wasting a lynch on an inactive sucks. However, I would prefer to use a lynch than a DT. Using a lynch is hit or miss, but it only wastes one action, while making more headway to finding scum with the DT. Using the DT on inactives pretty much wastes the DT if it is on town, while a lynch on a player is still a bit hit or miss (unless good analysis is done), and accidentally lynching an active townie would be more hurtful than an inactive townie. I am hoping it does not come to this and that everyone contributes though. I would love for a game without a bagillion modkills. Wait. What? Lynch is less important than a DT check? I would rather waste a Day 1 lynch than a Day 1 DT I feel. Day 1 lynches are tough. Definitely not impossible, but tough when everything is just starting out. Using a DT on someone who isn't going to even bother contributing wouldn't be worth it. Using DT checks on active members is definitely more important. I'm a bit confused now though...You want to DT check inactives AND lynch inactives? That just seems like a waste of resources. Lets say there are three people that are lurking. That's not a far fetched number, mafia love to lurk. Sure we lynch one of them during day one, but what about the other ones? Not all the DTs have to check of course. But maybe setting something such as a probability system would be enough to flush out the mafia. Roll a 1 check inactive A. Roll a 2 check inactive B. Roll a 3 check whoever you want. That plan will need to be modified, if not scrapped once we get our D1 vote list out.
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On December 10 2010 10:58 Gabriel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 10:46 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 10 2010 10:42 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 10:34 jcarlsoniv wrote:On December 10 2010 10:31 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 10:26 jcarlsoniv wrote:On December 10 2010 10:21 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 10:19 jcarlsoniv wrote:On December 10 2010 10:17 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 10:15 d3_crescentia wrote: [quote] I'd rather we just kill the inactives. I think checking them is a waste. The problem is that Lynching an inactive takes up an entire town lynch, which is far more useful and powerful than a DT check. Our lynches must work twords lowering mafia KP. At the same time, DTs must be used to work towards lowering mafia KP too. Analysis is great, but it can only go so far before WIFOM kicks in and confirmation is needed. Again, what do you propose to do about inactives? Well, here is my thought process. Wasting a lynch on an inactive sucks. However, I would prefer to use a lynch than a DT. Using a lynch is hit or miss, but it only wastes one action, while making more headway to finding scum with the DT. Using the DT on inactives pretty much wastes the DT if it is on town, while a lynch on a player is still a bit hit or miss (unless good analysis is done), and accidentally lynching an active townie would be more hurtful than an inactive townie. I am hoping it does not come to this and that everyone contributes though. I would love for a game without a bagillion modkills. Wait. What? Lynch is less important than a DT check? I would rather waste a Day 1 lynch than a Day 1 DT I feel. Day 1 lynches are tough. Definitely not impossible, but tough when everything is just starting out. Using a DT on someone who isn't going to even bother contributing wouldn't be worth it. Using DT checks on active members is definitely more important. I'm a bit confused now though...You want to DT check inactives AND lynch inactives? That just seems like a waste of resources. Lets say there are three people that are lurking. That's not a far fetched number, mafia love to lurk. Sure we lynch one of them during day one, but what about the other ones? Not all the DTs have to check of course. But maybe setting something such as a probability system would be enough to flush out the mafia. Roll a 1 check inactive A. Roll a 2 check inactive B. Roll a 3 check whoever you want. That plan will need to be modified, if not scrapped once we get our D1 vote list out. I rather check the active player and lynch the inactive player. The active player right now is more likely to be +info in the future anyways, while the inactive is just... well... inactive. By the way one of the worst game aproachs is the "im noob just reading and getting used to play". If you are town you rather post something small but with actual meaning. I still have a decent target day 1 unless he posts a few more than oneliners. Inactives is also my treasure box. I have no idea what that last line means.
Why don't you tell us/vote for who your "decent target"? +info always benefits town.
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On December 10 2010 11:00 zeks wrote: Lynch inactives or eventually they'll burn us in the ass in the end when we're fighting amongst each other
6 scum + 1 third party = 7 / 31 = 22% chance of sniping someone. I haven't played for a couple months but most the player list looks relatively foreign to me so I'm assuming theres quite a number of new players (over half?)
From what I've seen from past games newb scum tend to lurk (correct me if I'm wrong) so we shouldn't give a free pass to inactives. And with new players we don't have any material from past games to work with. And why don't you put your money where your mouth is and vote for an inactive instead of jumping on the bandwagon some clown started?
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On December 10 2010 11:12 Gabriel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 11:04 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 10 2010 10:58 Gabriel wrote:On December 10 2010 10:46 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 10 2010 10:42 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 10:34 jcarlsoniv wrote:On December 10 2010 10:31 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 10:26 jcarlsoniv wrote:On December 10 2010 10:21 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 10:19 jcarlsoniv wrote: [quote]
At the same time, DTs must be used to work towards lowering mafia KP too. Analysis is great, but it can only go so far before WIFOM kicks in and confirmation is needed. Again, what do you propose to do about inactives? Well, here is my thought process. Wasting a lynch on an inactive sucks. However, I would prefer to use a lynch than a DT. Using a lynch is hit or miss, but it only wastes one action, while making more headway to finding scum with the DT. Using the DT on inactives pretty much wastes the DT if it is on town, while a lynch on a player is still a bit hit or miss (unless good analysis is done), and accidentally lynching an active townie would be more hurtful than an inactive townie. I am hoping it does not come to this and that everyone contributes though. I would love for a game without a bagillion modkills. Wait. What? Lynch is less important than a DT check? I would rather waste a Day 1 lynch than a Day 1 DT I feel. Day 1 lynches are tough. Definitely not impossible, but tough when everything is just starting out. Using a DT on someone who isn't going to even bother contributing wouldn't be worth it. Using DT checks on active members is definitely more important. I'm a bit confused now though...You want to DT check inactives AND lynch inactives? That just seems like a waste of resources. Lets say there are three people that are lurking. That's not a far fetched number, mafia love to lurk. Sure we lynch one of them during day one, but what about the other ones? Not all the DTs have to check of course. But maybe setting something such as a probability system would be enough to flush out the mafia. Roll a 1 check inactive A. Roll a 2 check inactive B. Roll a 3 check whoever you want. That plan will need to be modified, if not scrapped once we get our D1 vote list out. I rather check the active player and lynch the inactive player. The active player right now is more likely to be +info in the future anyways, while the inactive is just... well... inactive. By the way one of the worst game aproachs is the "im noob just reading and getting used to play". If you are town you rather post something small but with actual meaning. I still have a decent target day 1 unless he posts a few more than oneliners. Inactives is also my treasure box. I have no idea what that last line means. Why don't you tell us/vote for who your "decent target"? +info always benefits town. I have a half decent target in the "im new guys" list. However right now i really want to flip Infundibulum because A) He came out of nowhere to dismiss lynching inactives (and that is really nonsense for a player that has played a lot of games) B) I cant believe jcarsoniv just posted a single Why? to LSB vote. With a game of 31 people and a little more than half the people having posted recently it's just dumb to blindvote someone for "just showing up." What do you read into the line about efficiency that I don't?
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On December 10 2010 12:11 Gabriel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 12:01 Oceanic wrote:On December 10 2010 11:57 Gabriel wrote:On December 10 2010 11:44 Kenpachi wrote:On December 10 2010 11:40 Gabriel wrote:On December 10 2010 11:34 Kenpachi wrote:On December 10 2010 11:20 Gabriel wrote:Interesting: my half good "im new" shot is now voting for me. Kenpachi care to explain A) your vote B) your deep posts? + Show Spoiler +On December 10 2010 07:11 Kenpachi wrote: oh shit.. i cant really imagine Professor Oak dead D: On December 10 2010 07:47 Kenpachi wrote: Pikachu - Townie Raichu - Miller Chansey - Medic Cloyster - Veteran Alakazam - Detective Electrode - Mad Hatter Mew - Special Detective
Gengar - God Father Koffing - Mafia Grunt Weezing - Mafia Shrink
Mewtwo - 3rd Party Vigilante
notice how our only way of killing at night is Mad Hatter and 3rd party.. 3rd party is technically against us and will probably kill town over mafia due to immunity and their goal is to be last alive. On December 10 2010 07:50 Kenpachi wrote: yea claiming is a no no. and i hate lynching inactives. doesnt work at all. On December 10 2010 08:01 Kenpachi wrote: how many people can Mafia target per night? On December 10 2010 08:12 Kenpachi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 08:11 Eiii wrote:There always seem to be posts about how we all need to establish a 'pro-town environment', which is obvious of course I (and I'm sure lots of other newer players) have no clue what that *means* though, especially when we can't PM each other. (That might turn out to be more of a blessing than a curse though.) So... can someone enlighten me? basically, where we can point out scum easily without confusing them as town.. i think On December 10 2010 08:14 Kenpachi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 08:13 KtheZ wrote: Do we have a limited amount of double lynches? I think its 2. what would posting history 4 hours into the game show you? A) You dont want to be active posting B) You want to "look" active C) You read the rules but you actually dont know mafia KP? That was rare. D) You dont want to lynch inactives because that doesnt work. E) You want enlightment. F) You vote for me out of literally nowhere. I mean: i post to flip Infundibulum and you come right after me. Care to explain at least? A) 4 hours does not judge that. what if i went on TL tomorrow for the first time in the past 3 days? B) Anyone who posts would want to look active.. Why would they post if they want to look inactive? C) Why are you assuming i read the rules? how do you know i didnt just assume the KP? D) It doesnt. shh E) ?? its enlightenment F) I dont agree with you voting for Infundibulum. A) Well you just wrote 7 one liners and have yet to post something relevant. B) But you are NOT. It is not about how you look. Come on that is not an argument, so you post one liners to look active? what is that? Sparta? C) Well you actually read the rules because you posted the pokemon/classicmafia relation. I wonder why you just couldnt look for the mafia KP, and insisted to look clueless asking for it. D) It doesnt? well you were pretty much inactive and so was Infundibulum. Maybe it does.E) You think too much. You have again 2 posts where you "think" about this "think" about that, when it is clear that those post refer to info available in the opening rules. This heavily smells like "im not too sure, i dont know" plot. F) So you agree that you are protecting infundibulum by voting me: More reason to flip him!. This logic is flawed since the game just started. So they didn't post right at the start and their first post was later then a lot of people's. So they were inactive til their first post? What about all the other people that haven't posted yet. When they make their first post are you going to say the same thing about them? After all, they were even later and therefore must be even more suspicious? Note that Kenpachi was actually posting since the start of the thread. People is inactive because we are just starting the game but nonsense has to be pinned down as soon as it comes out. I find hilariously weird that a guy posting one liners comes right after i vote Infundibulum (with a reason that may or may not be strong for other players) and simply votes Gabriel because he doesnt like my vote on Infundibulum. What do you think? Is that normal? He didnt even posted that. So is this your first game?
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On December 10 2010 12:19 Gabriel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 12:12 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 10 2010 12:11 Gabriel wrote:On December 10 2010 12:01 Oceanic wrote:On December 10 2010 11:57 Gabriel wrote:On December 10 2010 11:44 Kenpachi wrote:On December 10 2010 11:40 Gabriel wrote:On December 10 2010 11:34 Kenpachi wrote:On December 10 2010 11:20 Gabriel wrote:Interesting: my half good "im new" shot is now voting for me. Kenpachi care to explain A) your vote B) your deep posts? + Show Spoiler +On December 10 2010 07:11 Kenpachi wrote: oh shit.. i cant really imagine Professor Oak dead D: On December 10 2010 07:47 Kenpachi wrote: Pikachu - Townie Raichu - Miller Chansey - Medic Cloyster - Veteran Alakazam - Detective Electrode - Mad Hatter Mew - Special Detective
Gengar - God Father Koffing - Mafia Grunt Weezing - Mafia Shrink
Mewtwo - 3rd Party Vigilante
notice how our only way of killing at night is Mad Hatter and 3rd party.. 3rd party is technically against us and will probably kill town over mafia due to immunity and their goal is to be last alive. On December 10 2010 07:50 Kenpachi wrote: yea claiming is a no no. and i hate lynching inactives. doesnt work at all. On December 10 2010 08:01 Kenpachi wrote: how many people can Mafia target per night? On December 10 2010 08:12 Kenpachi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 08:11 Eiii wrote:There always seem to be posts about how we all need to establish a 'pro-town environment', which is obvious of course I (and I'm sure lots of other newer players) have no clue what that *means* though, especially when we can't PM each other. (That might turn out to be more of a blessing than a curse though.) So... can someone enlighten me? basically, where we can point out scum easily without confusing them as town.. i think On December 10 2010 08:14 Kenpachi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 08:13 KtheZ wrote: Do we have a limited amount of double lynches? I think its 2. what would posting history 4 hours into the game show you? A) You dont want to be active posting B) You want to "look" active C) You read the rules but you actually dont know mafia KP? That was rare. D) You dont want to lynch inactives because that doesnt work. E) You want enlightment. F) You vote for me out of literally nowhere. I mean: i post to flip Infundibulum and you come right after me. Care to explain at least? A) 4 hours does not judge that. what if i went on TL tomorrow for the first time in the past 3 days? B) Anyone who posts would want to look active.. Why would they post if they want to look inactive? C) Why are you assuming i read the rules? how do you know i didnt just assume the KP? D) It doesnt. shh E) ?? its enlightenment F) I dont agree with you voting for Infundibulum. A) Well you just wrote 7 one liners and have yet to post something relevant. B) But you are NOT. It is not about how you look. Come on that is not an argument, so you post one liners to look active? what is that? Sparta? C) Well you actually read the rules because you posted the pokemon/classicmafia relation. I wonder why you just couldnt look for the mafia KP, and insisted to look clueless asking for it. D) It doesnt? well you were pretty much inactive and so was Infundibulum. Maybe it does.E) You think too much. You have again 2 posts where you "think" about this "think" about that, when it is clear that those post refer to info available in the opening rules. This heavily smells like "im not too sure, i dont know" plot. F) So you agree that you are protecting infundibulum by voting me: More reason to flip him!. This logic is flawed since the game just started. So they didn't post right at the start and their first post was later then a lot of people's. So they were inactive til their first post? What about all the other people that haven't posted yet. When they make their first post are you going to say the same thing about them? After all, they were even later and therefore must be even more suspicious? Note that Kenpachi was actually posting since the start of the thread. People is inactive because we are just starting the game but nonsense has to be pinned down as soon as it comes out. I find hilariously weird that a guy posting one liners comes right after i vote Infundibulum (with a reason that may or may not be strong for other players) and simply votes Gabriel because he doesnt like my vote on Infundibulum. What do you think? Is that normal? He didnt even posted that. So is this your first game? You are not good at reading my friend ⇓. I thought you were a better mafia player on your old account. What happened to that?
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Hasn't it been 48 hours already since Day 1 post?
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My read on last night's events:
Last nights deaths make sense from the context of ridding the town of leadership and/or bluesniping. Tree.hugger had already established himself as a strong town player despite his misread on Kenpachi. I imagine his blue-ness was icing on the cake for mafia. Similarly for jcarlsoniv, who contributed to discussion. RoL is a dangerous player to have for anyone around, and his relative activity makes sense for a blue read (for me, anyway).
Who took the 4th hit? Step up and claim. If you do NOT, then it leaves room for Gengar to sneak in.
I'm having a hard time coming up with more leads at this point in time. With mafia targeting active townies they're looking more to destroy whatever organization we're getting and feed us whatever lies they want us to believe. LSB and Hesmyrr seem likely to me, as does Gabriel. The Eiii/zeks is something I'm not entirely sure on, because I never bought into Gabriel's analysis of zeks too strongly.
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On December 13 2010 17:15 Brocket wrote: I was reading through the roles again. I get why there was only voltorb because electrode only gets to place 1 voltorb per night or switches 1 voltorb per night (not both).
But what seems odd to me is the rule that if mew is checked by alakazam, mew will appear as alakazam. What's the point of that if there is only 1 alakazam in the game?
I kind of get that gengar can appear as alakazam too. I guess that's a given that gengar will always choose to apper as alakazam.. to appear as mew? Honestly I would have just made it mew appears as mew, and gengar can appear as mew. There is probably more than 1 Alakazam in the game.
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The relative silence of the town bothers me, because it's just what mafia needs to win. The contribution of members named KtheZ, chaoser, deconduo, Insanious, ShoCkeyy, serApH, DCLXVI, Oceanic is virtually nil.
We need to spend our time finding by rooting through the list of semi-lurking voters and figure out which ones we want to kill and/or check. Gabriel's insistence on a zeks vote today is distracting, but the votes on him thus far aren't very well-explained either. LSB and Shockeyy need to explain themselves on this.
Actually, Shockeyy needs to explain himself, period. He only has ONE post thus far in the thread: + Show Spoiler +On December 12 2010 05:51 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2010 04:35 tree.hugger wrote:On December 11 2010 17:41 tree.hugger wrote:My hunch is that he's not going to be able to commit fully to anything, no matter how much we prod.
On December 12 2010 02:30 Kenpachi wrote: asdf. even when i post, i get pointed scum On December 12 2010 02:35 Kenpachi wrote: okay so yea my posts were bad but what can i say? i couldnt offer anything there and there. So i voted Gabriel for blatant bandwagon. Then he reacts and i defend. On December 12 2010 02:27 Kenpachi wrote: ##vote tree.hugger On December 12 2010 04:10 Kenpachi wrote:On December 12 2010 03:39 DCLXVI wrote: Thank you insanious and tree.hugger, I hope to see more people post like that. I don't understand why people are letting Kenpachi off the hook for bad posting. So what if he has a history of being less than stellar for the town. We cannot allow him to spam and distract the town because even if he isn't mafia, this helps the mafia. He is playing in a way that benefits the mafia, so even if he isn't (though I think he is), he is dangerous for the town. I really don't like the defense used by darth and meepak of "oh, well this is just how he normally plays". Townies don't intentionally hurt the town by doing what kenpachi is doing. I'll hopefully be back in a bit before the vote ends, but I feel safe in putting my vote on Kenpachi. Every vote on him is a vote to clean up the town. youre dumb. what if i happened to be DT or Medic? On December 12 2010 04:13 Kenpachi wrote:On December 12 2010 04:12 jcarlsoniv wrote:On December 12 2010 04:10 Kenpachi wrote:On December 12 2010 03:39 DCLXVI wrote: Thank you insanious and tree.hugger, I hope to see more people post like that. I don't understand why people are letting Kenpachi off the hook for bad posting. So what if he has a history of being less than stellar for the town. We cannot allow him to spam and distract the town because even if he isn't mafia, this helps the mafia. He is playing in a way that benefits the mafia, so even if he isn't (though I think he is), he is dangerous for the town. I really don't like the defense used by darth and meepak of "oh, well this is just how he normally plays". Townies don't intentionally hurt the town by doing what kenpachi is doing. I'll hopefully be back in a bit before the vote ends, but I feel safe in putting my vote on Kenpachi. Every vote on him is a vote to clean up the town. youre dumb. what if i happened to be DT or Medic? Are you claiming DT or medic? no i am not Word. I suppose we'll get treated to angry defending eventually, as he's in the lead right now, but hey, that might be too committed. Alright, I feel like kenpachi is getting way to agressive here. All his post have been aggressive and not helpful in anyway. + Show Spoiler +A) 4 hours does not judge that. what if i went on TL tomorrow for the first time in the past 3 days? B) Anyone who posts would want to look active.. Why would they post if they want to look inactive? C) Why are you assuming i read the rules? how do you know i didnt just assume the KP? D) It doesnt. shh E) ?? its enlightenment F) I dont agree with you voting for Infundibulum. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=174831¤tpage=14#270When he starts saying, that why do people assume that he reads the rules, makes me question him. Everyone reads the rules and we know this because that's part of the game. If he's saying he doesn't that just seems phishy to me imo. I also feel like, he posted the DT or Medic theory in order to try and get some people off of his case cause he can possibly be a TR member. I've seen this happen plenty of times where they pull out the "I might be a DT or Medic" and they end up not being it. My two cents, maybe I am wrong, but this is what I've been able to read off of. I'll be back in the evening, so don't go anywhere.
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Shockeyy, I was going to call out Amber, but then I read his early game posts and found no problem with them. Whereas for you... I read one post. If you don't want to be of suspicion contribute more... and make it so that it isn't just you defending yourself or revenge voting against us. As for LSB, I don't think he has enough attention on him as he advocated things I didn't really agree with overall. Please don't take my posts out of context to do make us seem like bed-buddies.
I seriously SERIOUSLY disagree with double lynching tomorrow. Do we have good candidates yet? I might reconsider if we can confirm at least ONE.
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On December 15 2010 08:46 Infundibulum wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2010 08:32 BrownBear wrote: I am here, voting for myself again because I'm not superconvinced by any arguments so far. That said, having Hesmyrr as a (mostly) confirmed town voice is nice. That is seriously all you have to say? What is not convincing? Do you have any better alternatives?? Let's vote BrownBear instead. Y/N?
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@Kavdragon, I would agree with your analysis of Amber, except that *I* started with a Shockeyy vote. At that point in time we had a total of exactly FIVE votes. You might consider it late in the day, but I'm not satisfied with a town vote on one candidate. Of course it troubles me that my actions could split the vote so late, but what was even more troubling is that we had an entire town willing to go with Zeks based entirely on Day 1 discussion, and very little to go on for Day 2. Someone has to take the lead here.
Secondly, Zeks might very well turn out green and if we have 100% of town voting them, there's absolutely nothing to analyze. As it stands it looks more likely that Gabriel is scum, not me, as he seemingly dodged another lynch today. Are my actions indicative that I did so to derail his wagon, considering only a few people followed? Maybe you should consider the other 9+ people voting on Zeks right now instead.
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On December 15 2010 11:46 LSB wrote:ShoCkey Previous Game Analysis Caller's Red Army Mafyia: Role: Medic Posted 99% one liners. Got angry and warned for flaming. Mafia XVI: Role: Townie: Takes positions, especially on Xelin. Defends himself mostly civily. Mostly one-liners. + Show Spoiler +On January 21 2010 08:41 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2010 08:34 QuickStriker wrote:On January 21 2010 08:21 ShoCkeyy wrote:On January 21 2010 08:17 QuickStriker wrote:On January 21 2010 08:14 ShoCkeyy wrote: O_o we haven't started yet right? Uhh... yes we did??? And like no one is around to discuss and talk about the game in contrast to the other mafia game where it's way more active.... =/ Well I posted in the voting thread already since I couldn't find it till now ._. Hmm... well welcome!!! Glad to have at least one more active member of our little town.... it seems the mafias have put some poison gas or some sort of gas which is why everyone is silent or sleeping right now.... o.O Well QuickStriker, I will support you in this. I don't think you're the Mafia. Show nested quote +On January 20 2010 17:01 XeliN wrote:On January 20 2010 12:52 no_re wrote:Well hi everyone, my first mafia game, not entirely sure how it works so bare with me if Im doing it wrong, however relating to the "clues" posted everyday here is what I got from the above entry. My first thought when dissecting the post was this rather obvious quote: With a quick attack, the Sheriff Ace collapsed to the ground. A quick attack? Well with a player named QuickStriker in the game this looks like a kind of obvious clue. Also he was the first to respond to the first Sheriff Candidacy anouncement of Fulgrim, drawing attention to himself being "amused" by Fulgrim's "I'm not a mafia" comment. This intruiged me. I think that analysis overall was extremely good, from reading up on some earlier Mafia games it seems that the host often likes the come up with elaborate or entertaining deaths. This in itself makes the " With a quick attack " stand out far more in my eyes, and somewhat exonerates the other as possibly just being a whimsical choice by the host. In all honesty this by itself is enough to make me fairly suspicious and Quickstriker I am still more suspicious when I see some of what you have typed. In particular your reaction to no_re's non-serious accusation where you are essentially saying we must "hold off any action untill the DT comes forward and leads us through the valley of death and into the promised land" - I paraphrased, This however, as far as I can tell is an exceptionally bad strategy, the point of electing a mayor or sherrif is someone who seems active, discerning and importantly decisive, and your suggestion of sit and wait reeks to me on manipulation at an early stage. p.s. am i doin it rite? I think Xelin is the Mafia. He's already accusing you of being mafia even though the game hasn't started. Not only that, he's trying to submit himself as the Mayor, trying to find his way around from being lynched off. He knows that if he is able to be the mayor, then we're screwed. On January 21 2010 09:38 ShoCkeyy wrote: Hmm, I don't like this whole vote for me thing. Seems fishy, and especially the way he words it. He tries to win you over, so he can make sure he wins. I like his style no lie. But I won't be able to vote for him. Laaan, sorry, but my vote remains the same.
All you out of towners better stay in ya'll wreckin area. We don't like you hippie folks round hea. On January 22 2010 00:30 ShoCkeyy wrote: Ok, so I see some of you think I should be lynched. Well for one, I'm typing off my phone, so bare with me. Second, I voted for quikstriker, cause he seems like the right canidate for the mayor position out of everyone else here who is trying to be mayor. I rather choose some one who didn't impose themselves into trying to be mayor. Brings me to my reason as to why I would want xelin lynched.
Xelin saw that quikstriker was being the most helpful in this thread. He didn't like that, so he quickly picks quikstriker to be lynched. Then soon after post that he wants to be mayor, the reason as to why I don't want to vote for some one that says "I'm running for mayor." They seem more fake than anybody else here. Now I can tell you, I vote for xelin to be lynched 75% of the way.
The other 25% go to those who are quietly coming in that have watched us argue about who to lynch first. I feel like they watched us bicker to see and now that we have some what of an idea who we're going to lynch first. Now the mafia come in to back them up so we an lynch a townie. Which brings me to my other conclusion. Decafchicken I'm watching you. And one more that Shockeyy left out TL Mafia XVIII: Role: Mafia: Shockey was under heavy clue suspicion. He responded mostly civilly. However, most noticeably Shockey has essentially only one post that isn't either spam or defending himself (included below). Shockey shys away from taking any positions, besides defending himself. + Show Spoiler +On February 28 2010 07:30 ShoCkeyy wrote: I think it's pretty clear right now that the town should not be voting to kill Scamp. He is right in that at best all L has is some shaky clue analysis. In fact, most of L's clue analysis is directed at other players (Chez, johnny, me) and not at Scamp, go read his posts if you don't believe me.
Something I've noticed is that Scamp has actually taken the time to legitimately defend himself. I remember when we were going to lynch Mystlord, he hardly said a thing and most of what he said only incriminated him more. Right now the only thing incriminating Scamp is L. Also when QS was going to be lynched he came up with the stupid modkill plan that had no way working. Scamp hasn't tried to pull anything of that caliber. It seems to me he's arguing as a townsperson.
To the town, L has already convinced you to lynch our Mayor/medic. What's going to happen when Scamp turns up innocent? We'll be in a bigger mindfuck than we are right now. tree.hugger is clearly the safer vote right now. It's no doubt that if Scamp does not get lynched, L will continue to incriminate him. If Scamp is indeed mafia, he's going to slip up somewhere. Do you agree? Or any objections? For context, was Scamp on his team? Were they in a losing position? A winning position? This doesn't actually say shit until we know what the history was in that game.
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Day should end now so I can go to sleep ^_^
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but it's not gonna so I'm going to sleep >_<
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On December 15 2010 18:25 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I just wanna say I'm delighted at how not spammy this game has been. I'm not. Means that there isn't adequate discussion or finger-pointing to get anywhere.
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Zeks voters where you at? Oh right, below:
zeks Gabriel DCLXVI GGQ kitaman27 Insanious DarthThienAn Infundibulum chaoser Oceanic Eiii KtheZ Node ghrur
Gabriel Brocket ShoCkeyy dinmsab deconduo Kavdragon
Shockeyy d3_crescentia Amber[LighT] LSB
Brownbear Brownbear
SerapH SerapH Pandain?
tube LSB
Cross-examine with yesterday's vote list: Hesmyrr 1 d3_crescentia
LSB 1 tube
Gabriel 1 dinmsab
Stormtemplar 1
zeks
ghrur 1 ghrur
Zeks 11 Gabriel KtheZ Infundibulum Node DarthThienAn
Meapak_Ziphh chaoser Hesmyrr? Kenpachi GGQ Oceanic
kenpachi 12
tree.hugger deconduo Insanious Brocket LSB
jcarlsoniv DCLXVI Kavdragon ShoCkeyy seRapH Amber[LighT] Eiii
kitaman27 1 kitaman27
BrownBear 1 BrownBear
Please note that RoL did not vote Day 1 and is now dead. Analysis inc
PS I think my tags are screwy.
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Important things to note on this list:
Inactives/single votes There is absolutely no way we can continue voting in onesies because it makes analysis too hard. Of these on Day 1 we have: Brownbear, kitaman27, ghrur, dinmsab, and tube. Their actions on Day 2: Brownbear, tube (also note that in the above list tube should be voting for LSB, not the other way around), dinmsab with no change. Brownbear's inactivity is terrible and his presence isn't good for the town at all. As for the other two, dinmsab has voted for Gabriel twice and the same for tube -> LSB. If either of these two strongly believe in their votes then they should be in the thread actively promoting their viewpoint instead of sitting back passively; otherwise they might as well be scum.
The meat: Zeks You might note that the Zeks list is virtually identical between Day 1 and 2, with the exception of Hesmyrr/Pandain and kitaman27/Insanious/Eiii jumping ship from elsewhere. Insanious wasted a lot of time sticking his neck out in a tree-hugger analysis; Eiii is not necessarily scum given his last-minute vote on zeks Day 1; kitaman27 played fairly aggressive pro-town in the beginning but has fallen silent since. For now, we shouldn't care too much about these people.
The rest of the list (and a brief summary of posts):
DCLXVI - not much contribution here as far as targets; just a bunch of fluff GGQ - makes a few points wrt Zeks (I found them uncompelling, but maybe that's hindsight) chaoser - some early game discussion and defense of Kenpachi; has cited finals Oceanic - early defense of infundibulum/anti-Gabriel; has cited finals KtheZ - early agreement/defense of Gabriel and then vanished Node - points out LSB, agrees with Gabriel wrt Zeks, believes Hesmyrr's (now Pandain's) roleclaim ghrur - agreement with Node on LSB
I'm going to take the other three (Gabriel, DarthThienAn, Infundibulum) separately and get back to it tonight. Stay tuned for one more post...
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I don't pretend I'm good at analysis; in fact I'm probably trash terrible at it. Shortened because I have to go to work soon -_-
Here's what I noticed about the Zeks list in particular: - Much of the voting comes from Gabriel's early game analysis of Zeks. While Gabriel himself could be whatever, at least one of his supporters IS scum. Let's work on analyzing Gabriel and his early-game followers. - The discussion between DCLXVI and chaoser wrt to Kenpachi is particularly telling. Chaoser's defense is along the lines of "Kenpachi just posts that way" while DCLXVI's responses are "yeah but if he WERE mafia it'd be so easy for him to hide!" Something about this just doesn't strike me as particularly innocent on DCLXVI's part, as he seems to be posting an unnecessary defense of himself when Kenpachi died, and a lot of "we should do/have done X" statements recently. His vote for zeks isn't particularly well-justified; in fact it's a bit of a 180-degree turn as he suddenly shifted from "Kenpachi is scum" to "scum must have bandwagoned Kenpachi in the end to save zeks!" (Post on this sometime tonight as well)
Okay, off to work. Hope that's enough for you guys to chew on for tomorrow. Someone else come up with a night plan? In general, Gabriel might be good to check; DTA/Inf as well; DCLXVI cuz I think so. Medics protect who you can/find most compelling.
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On December 15 2010 22:38 flamewheel wrote: lol post quiet you
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On December 16 2010 03:28 DCLXVI wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2010 22:49 d3_crescentia wrote: I don't pretend I'm good at analysis; in fact I'm probably trash terrible at it. Shortened because I have to go to work soon -_-
Here's what I noticed about the Zeks list in particular: - Much of the voting comes from Gabriel's early game analysis of Zeks. While Gabriel himself could be whatever, at least one of his supporters IS scum. Let's work on analyzing Gabriel and his early-game followers. - The discussion between DCLXVI and chaoser wrt to Kenpachi is particularly telling. Chaoser's defense is along the lines of "Kenpachi just posts that way" while DCLXVI's responses are "yeah but if he WERE mafia it'd be so easy for him to hide!" Something about this just doesn't strike me as particularly innocent on DCLXVI's part, as he seems to be posting an unnecessary defense of himself when Kenpachi died, and a lot of "we should do/have done X" statements recently. His vote for zeks isn't particularly well-justified; in fact it's a bit of a 180-degree turn as he suddenly shifted from "Kenpachi is scum" to "scum must have bandwagoned Kenpachi in the end to save zeks!" (Post on this sometime tonight as well)
Okay, off to work. Hope that's enough for you guys to chew on for tomorrow. Someone else come up with a night plan? In general, Gabriel might be good to check; DTA/Inf as well; DCLXVI cuz I think so. Medics protect who you can/find most compelling. Might as well pull a shockeyy and start defending myself heavily. Next time I would like to see you quote my posts instead of summarizing them tinted heavily from your perspective. If I truly act scummy then there is no need for you to change what my posts say. I voted for kenpachi because he acted scummy and was useless for the town. I said that the defense "well he normally acts scummy" is a terrible defense and we should still lynch him because he acts scummy. Umm, I flipped and thought zeks was highly likely to be scum because I found out that I was wrong day 1 and kenpachi was green? You never have to revise your views of people when we get more information? I didn't think gabe was red (and still don't) and I really didn't like your last minute bandwagon on shockeyy with lsb and amber. That sort of play just screams scum to me. Okay, I get it. You're just a trash poster, scum or not.
On December 10 2010 15:09 DCLXVI wrote: Alright just read the thread. All I have to say is fuck you Team Rocket, Oak is the best character in the game. How did TR even manage to sneak up on him? Oak can tell from halfway around the world when you get on a bike, but he can't see a few clumsy TR members?
Seriously though, I am confused by gabriel. he makes some decent points about hesmyrr looking active but no content and infund's poor logic, but then he supports his points terribly. He attacks everyone who responds to him and then ragequits. Then the people he attacked + brocket vote him. Not sure if brocket is a newbie or is scum jumping on a free bandwagon. I need to read though the thread a few times more to get a clear view of what is going on, but I would like to hear some more posts on why gabriel/brocket/hesmyrr/infund are posting the way they are, not just people jumping on one side or the other. Early in the game - a call for more discussion. This isn't particularly scummy yet.
On December 12 2010 03:39 DCLXVI wrote: Thank you insanious and tree.hugger, I hope to see more people post like that. I don't understand why people are letting Kenpachi off the hook for bad posting. So what if he has a history of being less than stellar for the town. We cannot allow him to spam and distract the town because even if he isn't mafia, this helps the mafia. He is playing in a way that benefits the mafia, so even if he isn't (though I think he is), he is dangerous for the town. I really don't like the defense used by darth and meepak of "oh, well this is just how he normally plays". Townies don't intentionally hurt the town by doing what kenpachi is doing. I'll hopefully be back in a bit before the vote ends, but I feel safe in putting my vote on Kenpachi. Every vote on him is a vote to clean up the town. Restatement of what tree.hugger/Insanious said; no real contribution of his own.
On December 12 2010 15:21 DCLXVI wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2010 14:44 chaoser wrote: Guys...for everyone who played Salem...that's just how he plays -_- he was playing the exact same way he did in Salem, if he was mafia there would have been slight differences -_-. No comment. I did my best, I have no regrets Seriously though, I do not regret voting Kenpachi. He was distracting the thread from focusing on possible scum and was posting no relevant information. This does not help the town at all, and we were lucky that he was not a blue. Just because he normally acts scummy does not give him the right to post scummy. It would have been so easy for him to hide behind your terrible defense of him if he was mafia, and we cannot allow that to happen. @Meepak - Why do you want to vote for zeks or gabriel? Do you suspect mafia bandwagoned Kenpachi to save a teammate? Which one of them do you suspect more and why? Please answer these sorts of questions instead of posting accusatory one liners all the time. I was ready to write up a nice long post about the different people who defended kenpachi, but now that he has flipped green I need to rethink my arguments. Sorry for the lack of activity recently, let me sleep and in the morning I'll start pointing some fingers. Post-death justification when one was NOT NEEDED. We all knew Kenpachi was a trash poster in the first place (or at least I did) and that his death would not be missed. No one accused you of anything, so why bother to defend yourself? Because of some inner need to appear innocent at all times, perhaps?
On December 15 2010 05:23 DCLXVI wrote: With the number of swing votes that happened last time, I think that it is very likely that some scum jumped on the kenpachi bandwagon to save zeks. Not that Gabriel is posting any better, but I think that it is more likely that zeks is scum. @amber I don't think we analyzed the night actions enough. We barely covered the possibilities of what happened, and didn't bother to speculate which player was killed by mewtwo. That in itself could prove helpful to finding mewtwo, as well as finding scum connected to the other players who died. and I loled at one inactive accusing another. And for those of us that have some BRAINS we realized that Zeks fell into the same category of posting as Kenpachi - trash terrible, but nonetheless a waste of a lynch. Also, if you bothered to do any THINKING at all you'd realize that it's in the best interest of Mewtwo to play town-aligned in the early game. Why are you interested in finding Mewtwo unless you were RED and worried about yourself?
On December 15 2010 05:39 DCLXVI wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2010 05:31 Brocket wrote: I guess if a detective (alakazam or mew) wants to check me out that could be productive. I'll show up as either a true townie or a gengar pretending to be one. Chansey's honestly should just use their prevention on whoever they want to keep in and if they decide that they themselves are the most valuable then so be it. Give gabe/zeks a scan too if they survive the day vote and future night attacks.
I could be a blue. Or a townie pretending to be a blue. Would it matter too much to the town if I was killed off by mafia? I sort of think of it as taking one for the team so the blues can get a night off.
I could be mafia. I think I'd like to be just a koffing. I wouldn't know who to sleep as a weezing. I talk a lot as you can see but I try to be productive without any hard evidence (then again who does?).
As far as mewtwo is concerned, he's just a wild card that confuses the night attacks and he's more likely to kill townies than mafia the first few nights until our numbers sufficiently dwindle. Sad but true.
tl,dr; Hey guys I'm trying to confuse the town and withhold information but that's ok because I'm town or maybe I'm not but thats fine maybe blues should do what I tell them but maybe not because that could be bad and maybe mewtwo is bad for us now but good later so lets not worry aboutanything. Nice, finally some condescension. Too bad it isn't an actual push for a lynch. If you're not scum you're still being too fucking lazy about this, and if you are - well, that's the perfect level of sneerage to detract from your own posting.
On December 15 2010 15:54 DCLXVI wrote:@LSB While I like your idea of forming up a list of all the inactive/scummy players and then using dt's (or mad H's) on them, I don't think that it is a viable strategy now. A list like that would have to include around 85% of the players. In fact I'll whip one up right now: + Show Spoiler +1. deconduo 2. BrownBear 3. Eiii 4. GGQ 5. LSB 6. DarthThienAn 7. RebirthOfLeGenD (Pikachu, Night 1 Kill) 8. Amber[LighT] 9. dinmsab 10. jcarlsoniv (Pikachu, Night 1 Kill) 11. DCLXVI 12. Ghrur 13. Kenpachi (Pikachu, Day 1 Lynch) 14. Node 15. KtheZ 16. tube 17. chaoser 18. Oceanic 19. Gabriel 20. Insanious 21. Meapak_Ziphh (Pikachu, Night 1 Kill) 22. Shockeyy 23. seRapH 24. Kavdragon 25. tree.hugger (Electrode, Night 1 Kill 26. Infundibulum 27. Pandain 28. Brocket 29. kitaman27 30. d3_crescentia 31. zeks Right now I am trying to get more active, but as far as I see there are about 5 seriously active players. That is why we cannot have the medics self protect like you asked tonight. Night one mafia+M2 took out 3 of the most active players, and I would bet that they will continue that trend tonight. We desperately need every last active player, so unless the medics themselves are high priority targets for the mafia, they should not self protect. I am not trying to open up the medics to be hit, but lets be reasonable. What motive does the mafia have to try to hit random lurking blues over the few active players? Not to mention if they hit mew, they are pretty much screwed. Medics please decide who you want to live and lead our scum hunting tomorrow, Dts follow your gut, same with electrodes. Vets just be tough It would be nice to have some dt's give us information in 2 days (three night checks) so that we know about 1/2 of the alignments with some room for error with millers / GF / fake claims. We could hope for ~2 scum revealed this way, with maybe one fake claimed scum. (all numbers estimated in my head with my assumptions, check yourself) However I think we need to see how desperate our plight is come that time, maybe it will not be necessary then. On the other hand, Double lynching is becoming increasingly necessary. With our multiple bandwagons forming and splitting each vote, it looks like the mafia is having an easy time pulling votes off their team and sending townies to the noose. If we lose to many more townies tonight we won't be able to control the lynch very well in the coming days. We need to take advantage the DL to try and catch back up against the mafia's kills. That is something we seriously need to consider and vote on tomorrow depending on the night kills and the level of town activity come tomorrow morning. I want to see the night kills before I comment on potential scummy players tomorrow. Good night, and make sure you are well prepared for any multiples of trouble. Nice general advice. Doesn't really say much except "Maybe on Day 5 DTs should reveal all they know," not accounting for the fact that the Mafia will target those that the DTs check. Maybe the DTs will check inactive players, but what's to stop the mafia from counterclaiming with their own fake DT and sowing more chaos? There needs to be a better plan than just "in 3 days let's reveal." Of course, I realize that you yourself don't have much confidence in this plan of yours, seeing as how it's just plain terrible for town. Or you might just be TR putting thoughts in our mind.
So step up and defend yourself, or I'll be putting my vote on you first thing come Day.
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On December 16 2010 10:35 LSB wrote: If I die, check out Shocky, D3, and Brocket I'm pretty sure I'm not TR. The other two might be worth a look though.
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No more FoS. At this rate the discussion isn't going to get anywhere if we just keep pointing FoS at each other and do NOTHING with our votes. My current candidates to consider for TR, in no particular order, are:
DCLXVI Infundibulum Kavdragon Brownbear
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On December 16 2010 12:49 DCLXVI wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2010 10:19 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 16 2010 03:28 DCLXVI wrote:On December 15 2010 22:49 d3_crescentia wrote: I don't pretend I'm good at analysis; in fact I'm probably trash terrible at it. Shortened because I have to go to work soon -_-
Here's what I noticed about the Zeks list in particular: - Much of the voting comes from Gabriel's early game analysis of Zeks. While Gabriel himself could be whatever, at least one of his supporters IS scum. Let's work on analyzing Gabriel and his early-game followers. - The discussion between DCLXVI and chaoser wrt to Kenpachi is particularly telling. Chaoser's defense is along the lines of "Kenpachi just posts that way" while DCLXVI's responses are "yeah but if he WERE mafia it'd be so easy for him to hide!" Something about this just doesn't strike me as particularly innocent on DCLXVI's part, as he seems to be posting an unnecessary defense of himself when Kenpachi died, and a lot of "we should do/have done X" statements recently. His vote for zeks isn't particularly well-justified; in fact it's a bit of a 180-degree turn as he suddenly shifted from "Kenpachi is scum" to "scum must have bandwagoned Kenpachi in the end to save zeks!" (Post on this sometime tonight as well)
Okay, off to work. Hope that's enough for you guys to chew on for tomorrow. Someone else come up with a night plan? In general, Gabriel might be good to check; DTA/Inf as well; DCLXVI cuz I think so. Medics protect who you can/find most compelling. Might as well pull a shockeyy and start defending myself heavily. Next time I would like to see you quote my posts instead of summarizing them tinted heavily from your perspective. If I truly act scummy then there is no need for you to change what my posts say. I voted for kenpachi because he acted scummy and was useless for the town. I said that the defense "well he normally acts scummy" is a terrible defense and we should still lynch him because he acts scummy. Umm, I flipped and thought zeks was highly likely to be scum because I found out that I was wrong day 1 and kenpachi was green? You never have to revise your views of people when we get more information? I didn't think gabe was red (and still don't) and I really didn't like your last minute bandwagon on shockeyy with lsb and amber. That sort of play just screams scum to me. Okay, I get it. You're just a trash poster, scum or not. WTF? Did you read what I posted? I accuse you of changing the meaning of my posts and you call me a trash poster? How does this have any relevance to what I posted? On December 10 2010 15:09 DCLXVI wrote: Alright just read the thread. All I have to say is fuck you Team Rocket, Oak is the best character in the game. How did TR even manage to sneak up on him? Oak can tell from halfway around the world when you get on a bike, but he can't see a few clumsy TR members?
Seriously though, I am confused by gabriel. he makes some decent points about hesmyrr looking active but no content and infund's poor logic, but then he supports his points terribly. He attacks everyone who responds to him and then ragequits. Then the people he attacked + brocket vote him. Not sure if brocket is a newbie or is scum jumping on a free bandwagon. I need to read though the thread a few times more to get a clear view of what is going on, but I would like to hear some more posts on why gabriel/brocket/hesmyrr/infund are posting the way they are, not just people jumping on one side or the other. Early in the game - a call for more discussion. This isn't particularly scummy yet. another "trashy" post of course On December 12 2010 03:39 DCLXVI wrote: Thank you insanious and tree.hugger, I hope to see more people post like that. I don't understand why people are letting Kenpachi off the hook for bad posting. So what if he has a history of being less than stellar for the town. We cannot allow him to spam and distract the town because even if he isn't mafia, this helps the mafia. He is playing in a way that benefits the mafia, so even if he isn't (though I think he is), he is dangerous for the town. I really don't like the defense used by darth and meepak of "oh, well this is just how he normally plays". Townies don't intentionally hurt the town by doing what kenpachi is doing. I'll hopefully be back in a bit before the vote ends, but I feel safe in putting my vote on Kenpachi. Every vote on him is a vote to clean up the town. Restatement of what tree.hugger/Insanious said; no real contribution of his own. Do you just read the first line of what I post and then ignore the rest? Because that is the only way I can understand what you are talking about. On December 12 2010 15:21 DCLXVI wrote:On December 12 2010 14:44 chaoser wrote: Guys...for everyone who played Salem...that's just how he plays -_- he was playing the exact same way he did in Salem, if he was mafia there would have been slight differences -_-. No comment. I did my best, I have no regrets Seriously though, I do not regret voting Kenpachi. He was distracting the thread from focusing on possible scum and was posting no relevant information. This does not help the town at all, and we were lucky that he was not a blue. Just because he normally acts scummy does not give him the right to post scummy. It would have been so easy for him to hide behind your terrible defense of him if he was mafia, and we cannot allow that to happen. @Meepak - Why do you want to vote for zeks or gabriel? Do you suspect mafia bandwagoned Kenpachi to save a teammate? Which one of them do you suspect more and why? Please answer these sorts of questions instead of posting accusatory one liners all the time. I was ready to write up a nice long post about the different people who defended kenpachi, but now that he has flipped green I need to rethink my arguments. Sorry for the lack of activity recently, let me sleep and in the morning I'll start pointing some fingers. Post-death justification when one was NOT NEEDED. We all knew Kenpachi was a trash poster in the first place (or at least I did) and that his death would not be missed. No one accused you of anything, so why bother to defend yourself? Because of some inner need to appear innocent at all times, perhaps? NOT NEEDED but asked for, notice I quoted someone who questioned the lynch. I'm sorry for further explaining my rationale behind voting, perhaps next till I will just randomly vote people off a list like you do: On December 14 2010 23:47 d3_crescentia wrote: ##vote: Shockeyy On December 15 2010 05:23 DCLXVI wrote: With the number of swing votes that happened last time, I think that it is very likely that some scum jumped on the kenpachi bandwagon to save zeks. Not that Gabriel is posting any better, but I think that it is more likely that zeks is scum. @amber I don't think we analyzed the night actions enough. We barely covered the possibilities of what happened, and didn't bother to speculate which player was killed by mewtwo. That in itself could prove helpful to finding mewtwo, as well as finding scum connected to the other players who died. and I loled at one inactive accusing another. And for those of us that have some BRAINS we realized that Zeks fell into the same category of posting as Kenpachi - trash terrible, but nonetheless a waste of a lynch. Also, if you bothered to do any THINKING at all you'd realize that it's in the best interest of Mewtwo to play town-aligned in the early game. Why are you interested in finding Mewtwo unless you were RED and worried about yourself? Maybe if you had some FORESIGHT you could've prepared better for losing mew. Now it will be even harder for us to find mewtwo, especially since people like you try to stop any town discussion like this. Notice the town cannot win with mewtwo alive, so while it might be in M2's best interest to appear townie, the town still needs to kill him. Why are you so scared of us finding mewtwo? Is that your role? On December 15 2010 05:39 DCLXVI wrote:On December 15 2010 05:31 Brocket wrote: I guess if a detective (alakazam or mew) wants to check me out that could be productive. I'll show up as either a true townie or a gengar pretending to be one. Chansey's honestly should just use their prevention on whoever they want to keep in and if they decide that they themselves are the most valuable then so be it. Give gabe/zeks a scan too if they survive the day vote and future night attacks.
I could be a blue. Or a townie pretending to be a blue. Would it matter too much to the town if I was killed off by mafia? I sort of think of it as taking one for the team so the blues can get a night off.
I could be mafia. I think I'd like to be just a koffing. I wouldn't know who to sleep as a weezing. I talk a lot as you can see but I try to be productive without any hard evidence (then again who does?).
As far as mewtwo is concerned, he's just a wild card that confuses the night attacks and he's more likely to kill townies than mafia the first few nights until our numbers sufficiently dwindle. Sad but true.
tl,dr; Hey guys I'm trying to confuse the town and withhold information but that's ok because I'm town or maybe I'm not but thats fine maybe blues should do what I tell them but maybe not because that could be bad and maybe mewtwo is bad for us now but good later so lets not worry aboutanything. Nice, finally some condescension. Too bad it isn't an actual push for a lynch. If you're not scum you're still being too fucking lazy about this, and if you are - well, that's the perfect level of sneerage to detract from your own posting. Maybe if you had some BRAINS you could've noticed the sarcasm in the post, pointing to the uselessness of brocket's post. I guess things like this are too subtle for players of your caliber. On December 15 2010 15:54 DCLXVI wrote:@LSB While I like your idea of forming up a list of all the inactive/scummy players and then using dt's (or mad H's) on them, I don't think that it is a viable strategy now. A list like that would have to include around 85% of the players. In fact I'll whip one up right now: + Show Spoiler +1. deconduo 2. BrownBear 3. Eiii 4. GGQ 5. LSB 6. DarthThienAn 7. RebirthOfLeGenD (Pikachu, Night 1 Kill) 8. Amber[LighT] 9. dinmsab 10. jcarlsoniv (Pikachu, Night 1 Kill) 11. DCLXVI 12. Ghrur 13. Kenpachi (Pikachu, Day 1 Lynch) 14. Node 15. KtheZ 16. tube 17. chaoser 18. Oceanic 19. Gabriel 20. Insanious 21. Meapak_Ziphh (Pikachu, Night 1 Kill) 22. Shockeyy 23. seRapH 24. Kavdragon 25. tree.hugger (Electrode, Night 1 Kill 26. Infundibulum 27. Pandain 28. Brocket 29. kitaman27 30. d3_crescentia 31. zeks Right now I am trying to get more active, but as far as I see there are about 5 seriously active players. That is why we cannot have the medics self protect like you asked tonight. Night one mafia+M2 took out 3 of the most active players, and I would bet that they will continue that trend tonight. We desperately need every last active player, so unless the medics themselves are high priority targets for the mafia, they should not self protect. I am not trying to open up the medics to be hit, but lets be reasonable. What motive does the mafia have to try to hit random lurking blues over the few active players? Not to mention if they hit mew, they are pretty much screwed. Medics please decide who you want to live and lead our scum hunting tomorrow, Dts follow your gut, same with electrodes. Vets just be tough It would be nice to have some dt's give us information in 2 days (three night checks) so that we know about 1/2 of the alignments with some room for error with millers / GF / fake claims. We could hope for ~2 scum revealed this way, with maybe one fake claimed scum. (all numbers estimated in my head with my assumptions, check yourself) However I think we need to see how desperate our plight is come that time, maybe it will not be necessary then. On the other hand, Double lynching is becoming increasingly necessary. With our multiple bandwagons forming and splitting each vote, it looks like the mafia is having an easy time pulling votes off their team and sending townies to the noose. If we lose to many more townies tonight we won't be able to control the lynch very well in the coming days. We need to take advantage the DL to try and catch back up against the mafia's kills. That is something we seriously need to consider and vote on tomorrow depending on the night kills and the level of town activity come tomorrow morning. I want to see the night kills before I comment on potential scummy players tomorrow. Good night, and make sure you are well prepared for any multiples of trouble. Nice general advice. Doesn't really say much except "Maybe on Day 5 DTs should reveal all they know," not accounting for the fact that the Mafia will target those that the DTs check. Maybe the DTs will check inactive players, but what's to stop the mafia from counterclaiming with their own fake DT and sowing more chaos? There needs to be a better plan than just "in 3 days let's reveal." Of course, I realize that you yourself don't have much confidence in this plan of yours, seeing as how it's just plain terrible for town. Or you might just be TR putting thoughts in our mind. So step up and defend yourself, or I'll be putting my vote on you first thing come Day. Yeah I guess I don't say much besides criticizing LSB's plan and commenting on the double lynch benefits and outline a decent plan for the medics to follow (which they didn't, and now we lost more active townies ). I guess I should post more like you: Show nested quote +On December 16 2010 10:39 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 16 2010 10:35 LSB wrote: If I die, check out Shocky, D3, and Brocket I'm pretty sure I'm not TR. The other two might be worth a look though. And you call my posts trashy. All of my posts at least have a reason behind them, as I, unlike you, don't feel the need to spam to seem active and townie. So in an effort to be a better townie should I go back and summarize your posts however I like, call you an idiot, and then try to start a bandwagon on you? Because that seems like one of the scummiest plans I can think of, but you manage to pull it off and people think you are one of the towniest of us all. Congratulations on returning fire; don't you feel GREAT about yourself now that you've contributed a post that amounts to a "NO U"? I'm sorry, "medics protect who you think you should" isn't telling them anything they don't know already. Post some real content for fuck's sake, because criticism and disagreement means jack shit unless you provide alternatives. If you haven't noticed, I'm trying to get town back on the right track, whereas all you do is whine about how I've mischaracterized you instead of contributing. Go analyze some other people, unless you're too scared to out your scum buddies.
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On December 16 2010 13:08 DCLXVI wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2010 12:58 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 16 2010 12:49 DCLXVI wrote:On December 16 2010 10:19 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 16 2010 03:28 DCLXVI wrote:On December 15 2010 22:49 d3_crescentia wrote: I don't pretend I'm good at analysis; in fact I'm probably trash terrible at it. Shortened because I have to go to work soon -_-
Here's what I noticed about the Zeks list in particular: - Much of the voting comes from Gabriel's early game analysis of Zeks. While Gabriel himself could be whatever, at least one of his supporters IS scum. Let's work on analyzing Gabriel and his early-game followers. - The discussion between DCLXVI and chaoser wrt to Kenpachi is particularly telling. Chaoser's defense is along the lines of "Kenpachi just posts that way" while DCLXVI's responses are "yeah but if he WERE mafia it'd be so easy for him to hide!" Something about this just doesn't strike me as particularly innocent on DCLXVI's part, as he seems to be posting an unnecessary defense of himself when Kenpachi died, and a lot of "we should do/have done X" statements recently. His vote for zeks isn't particularly well-justified; in fact it's a bit of a 180-degree turn as he suddenly shifted from "Kenpachi is scum" to "scum must have bandwagoned Kenpachi in the end to save zeks!" (Post on this sometime tonight as well)
Okay, off to work. Hope that's enough for you guys to chew on for tomorrow. Someone else come up with a night plan? In general, Gabriel might be good to check; DTA/Inf as well; DCLXVI cuz I think so. Medics protect who you can/find most compelling. Might as well pull a shockeyy and start defending myself heavily. Next time I would like to see you quote my posts instead of summarizing them tinted heavily from your perspective. If I truly act scummy then there is no need for you to change what my posts say. I voted for kenpachi because he acted scummy and was useless for the town. I said that the defense "well he normally acts scummy" is a terrible defense and we should still lynch him because he acts scummy. Umm, I flipped and thought zeks was highly likely to be scum because I found out that I was wrong day 1 and kenpachi was green? You never have to revise your views of people when we get more information? I didn't think gabe was red (and still don't) and I really didn't like your last minute bandwagon on shockeyy with lsb and amber. That sort of play just screams scum to me. Okay, I get it. You're just a trash poster, scum or not. WTF? Did you read what I posted? I accuse you of changing the meaning of my posts and you call me a trash poster? How does this have any relevance to what I posted? On December 10 2010 15:09 DCLXVI wrote: Alright just read the thread. All I have to say is fuck you Team Rocket, Oak is the best character in the game. How did TR even manage to sneak up on him? Oak can tell from halfway around the world when you get on a bike, but he can't see a few clumsy TR members?
Seriously though, I am confused by gabriel. he makes some decent points about hesmyrr looking active but no content and infund's poor logic, but then he supports his points terribly. He attacks everyone who responds to him and then ragequits. Then the people he attacked + brocket vote him. Not sure if brocket is a newbie or is scum jumping on a free bandwagon. I need to read though the thread a few times more to get a clear view of what is going on, but I would like to hear some more posts on why gabriel/brocket/hesmyrr/infund are posting the way they are, not just people jumping on one side or the other. Early in the game - a call for more discussion. This isn't particularly scummy yet. another "trashy" post of course On December 12 2010 03:39 DCLXVI wrote: Thank you insanious and tree.hugger, I hope to see more people post like that. I don't understand why people are letting Kenpachi off the hook for bad posting. So what if he has a history of being less than stellar for the town. We cannot allow him to spam and distract the town because even if he isn't mafia, this helps the mafia. He is playing in a way that benefits the mafia, so even if he isn't (though I think he is), he is dangerous for the town. I really don't like the defense used by darth and meepak of "oh, well this is just how he normally plays". Townies don't intentionally hurt the town by doing what kenpachi is doing. I'll hopefully be back in a bit before the vote ends, but I feel safe in putting my vote on Kenpachi. Every vote on him is a vote to clean up the town. Restatement of what tree.hugger/Insanious said; no real contribution of his own. Do you just read the first line of what I post and then ignore the rest? Because that is the only way I can understand what you are talking about. On December 12 2010 15:21 DCLXVI wrote:On December 12 2010 14:44 chaoser wrote: Guys...for everyone who played Salem...that's just how he plays -_- he was playing the exact same way he did in Salem, if he was mafia there would have been slight differences -_-. No comment. I did my best, I have no regrets Seriously though, I do not regret voting Kenpachi. He was distracting the thread from focusing on possible scum and was posting no relevant information. This does not help the town at all, and we were lucky that he was not a blue. Just because he normally acts scummy does not give him the right to post scummy. It would have been so easy for him to hide behind your terrible defense of him if he was mafia, and we cannot allow that to happen. @Meepak - Why do you want to vote for zeks or gabriel? Do you suspect mafia bandwagoned Kenpachi to save a teammate? Which one of them do you suspect more and why? Please answer these sorts of questions instead of posting accusatory one liners all the time. I was ready to write up a nice long post about the different people who defended kenpachi, but now that he has flipped green I need to rethink my arguments. Sorry for the lack of activity recently, let me sleep and in the morning I'll start pointing some fingers. Post-death justification when one was NOT NEEDED. We all knew Kenpachi was a trash poster in the first place (or at least I did) and that his death would not be missed. No one accused you of anything, so why bother to defend yourself? Because of some inner need to appear innocent at all times, perhaps? NOT NEEDED but asked for, notice I quoted someone who questioned the lynch. I'm sorry for further explaining my rationale behind voting, perhaps next till I will just randomly vote people off a list like you do: On December 14 2010 23:47 d3_crescentia wrote: ##vote: Shockeyy On December 15 2010 05:23 DCLXVI wrote: With the number of swing votes that happened last time, I think that it is very likely that some scum jumped on the kenpachi bandwagon to save zeks. Not that Gabriel is posting any better, but I think that it is more likely that zeks is scum. @amber I don't think we analyzed the night actions enough. We barely covered the possibilities of what happened, and didn't bother to speculate which player was killed by mewtwo. That in itself could prove helpful to finding mewtwo, as well as finding scum connected to the other players who died. and I loled at one inactive accusing another. And for those of us that have some BRAINS we realized that Zeks fell into the same category of posting as Kenpachi - trash terrible, but nonetheless a waste of a lynch. Also, if you bothered to do any THINKING at all you'd realize that it's in the best interest of Mewtwo to play town-aligned in the early game. Why are you interested in finding Mewtwo unless you were RED and worried about yourself? Maybe if you had some FORESIGHT you could've prepared better for losing mew. Now it will be even harder for us to find mewtwo, especially since people like you try to stop any town discussion like this. Notice the town cannot win with mewtwo alive, so while it might be in M2's best interest to appear townie, the town still needs to kill him. Why are you so scared of us finding mewtwo? Is that your role? On December 15 2010 05:39 DCLXVI wrote:On December 15 2010 05:31 Brocket wrote: I guess if a detective (alakazam or mew) wants to check me out that could be productive. I'll show up as either a true townie or a gengar pretending to be one. Chansey's honestly should just use their prevention on whoever they want to keep in and if they decide that they themselves are the most valuable then so be it. Give gabe/zeks a scan too if they survive the day vote and future night attacks.
I could be a blue. Or a townie pretending to be a blue. Would it matter too much to the town if I was killed off by mafia? I sort of think of it as taking one for the team so the blues can get a night off.
I could be mafia. I think I'd like to be just a koffing. I wouldn't know who to sleep as a weezing. I talk a lot as you can see but I try to be productive without any hard evidence (then again who does?).
As far as mewtwo is concerned, he's just a wild card that confuses the night attacks and he's more likely to kill townies than mafia the first few nights until our numbers sufficiently dwindle. Sad but true.
tl,dr; Hey guys I'm trying to confuse the town and withhold information but that's ok because I'm town or maybe I'm not but thats fine maybe blues should do what I tell them but maybe not because that could be bad and maybe mewtwo is bad for us now but good later so lets not worry aboutanything. Nice, finally some condescension. Too bad it isn't an actual push for a lynch. If you're not scum you're still being too fucking lazy about this, and if you are - well, that's the perfect level of sneerage to detract from your own posting. Maybe if you had some BRAINS you could've noticed the sarcasm in the post, pointing to the uselessness of brocket's post. I guess things like this are too subtle for players of your caliber. On December 15 2010 15:54 DCLXVI wrote:@LSB While I like your idea of forming up a list of all the inactive/scummy players and then using dt's (or mad H's) on them, I don't think that it is a viable strategy now. A list like that would have to include around 85% of the players. In fact I'll whip one up right now: + Show Spoiler +1. deconduo 2. BrownBear 3. Eiii 4. GGQ 5. LSB 6. DarthThienAn 7. RebirthOfLeGenD (Pikachu, Night 1 Kill) 8. Amber[LighT] 9. dinmsab 10. jcarlsoniv (Pikachu, Night 1 Kill) 11. DCLXVI 12. Ghrur 13. Kenpachi (Pikachu, Day 1 Lynch) 14. Node 15. KtheZ 16. tube 17. chaoser 18. Oceanic 19. Gabriel 20. Insanious 21. Meapak_Ziphh (Pikachu, Night 1 Kill) 22. Shockeyy 23. seRapH 24. Kavdragon 25. tree.hugger (Electrode, Night 1 Kill 26. Infundibulum 27. Pandain 28. Brocket 29. kitaman27 30. d3_crescentia 31. zeks Right now I am trying to get more active, but as far as I see there are about 5 seriously active players. That is why we cannot have the medics self protect like you asked tonight. Night one mafia+M2 took out 3 of the most active players, and I would bet that they will continue that trend tonight. We desperately need every last active player, so unless the medics themselves are high priority targets for the mafia, they should not self protect. I am not trying to open up the medics to be hit, but lets be reasonable. What motive does the mafia have to try to hit random lurking blues over the few active players? Not to mention if they hit mew, they are pretty much screwed. Medics please decide who you want to live and lead our scum hunting tomorrow, Dts follow your gut, same with electrodes. Vets just be tough It would be nice to have some dt's give us information in 2 days (three night checks) so that we know about 1/2 of the alignments with some room for error with millers / GF / fake claims. We could hope for ~2 scum revealed this way, with maybe one fake claimed scum. (all numbers estimated in my head with my assumptions, check yourself) However I think we need to see how desperate our plight is come that time, maybe it will not be necessary then. On the other hand, Double lynching is becoming increasingly necessary. With our multiple bandwagons forming and splitting each vote, it looks like the mafia is having an easy time pulling votes off their team and sending townies to the noose. If we lose to many more townies tonight we won't be able to control the lynch very well in the coming days. We need to take advantage the DL to try and catch back up against the mafia's kills. That is something we seriously need to consider and vote on tomorrow depending on the night kills and the level of town activity come tomorrow morning. I want to see the night kills before I comment on potential scummy players tomorrow. Good night, and make sure you are well prepared for any multiples of trouble. Nice general advice. Doesn't really say much except "Maybe on Day 5 DTs should reveal all they know," not accounting for the fact that the Mafia will target those that the DTs check. Maybe the DTs will check inactive players, but what's to stop the mafia from counterclaiming with their own fake DT and sowing more chaos? There needs to be a better plan than just "in 3 days let's reveal." Of course, I realize that you yourself don't have much confidence in this plan of yours, seeing as how it's just plain terrible for town. Or you might just be TR putting thoughts in our mind. So step up and defend yourself, or I'll be putting my vote on you first thing come Day. Yeah I guess I don't say much besides criticizing LSB's plan and commenting on the double lynch benefits and outline a decent plan for the medics to follow (which they didn't, and now we lost more active townies ). I guess I should post more like you: On December 16 2010 10:39 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 16 2010 10:35 LSB wrote: If I die, check out Shocky, D3, and Brocket I'm pretty sure I'm not TR. The other two might be worth a look though. And you call my posts trashy. All of my posts at least have a reason behind them, as I, unlike you, don't feel the need to spam to seem active and townie. So in an effort to be a better townie should I go back and summarize your posts however I like, call you an idiot, and then try to start a bandwagon on you? Because that seems like one of the scummiest plans I can think of, but you manage to pull it off and people think you are one of the towniest of us all. Congratulations on returning fire; don't you feel GREAT about yourself now that you've contributed a post that amounts to a "NO U"? I'm sorry, "medics protect who you think you should" isn't telling them anything they don't know already. Post some real content for fuck's sake, because criticism and disagreement means jack shit unless you provide alternatives. If you haven't noticed, I'm trying to get town back on the right track, whereas all you do is whine about how I've mischaracterized you instead of contributing. Go analyze some other people, unless you're too scared to out your scum buddies. You don't seem to understand that I am calling you out for doing a terrible analysis. You are not helping the town by doing so. Once again you take half of what I say and turn it to fit your fancy. I asked for the medics to protect the town leaders over themselves, READ MY POSTS. Also, what happened to the rest of your "analysis"? I'm just right so you ignore it and flame me? Why don't you post some REAL content instead of calling for everyone else to do it instead? I did read your posts. I found them wanting.
If I'm doing a terrible analysis then do a better one. Make it on me. Make it on someone else. I don't really care; just make it so that you're doing it on someone and that town can benefit from the discussion. I am trying my best to offer something that resembles analysis, but if half the town is sitting around scratching their heads and saying "durr should we lynch shockeyy now" when we are down 4 blues then we are going to lose, period.
That's the problem I have with you. You offer no viable alternatives. You offer vague plans. You offer mild criticism but don't push for anything concrete. If you think my posts are terrible and deliberately designed to mislead town then for fuck's sake get the entire town to vote me and be done with it.
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On December 16 2010 13:21 Kavdragon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2010 12:49 d3_crescentia wrote: No more FoS. At this rate the discussion isn't going to get anywhere if we just keep pointing FoS at each other and do NOTHING with our votes. My current candidates to consider for TR, in no particular order, are:
DCLXVI Infundibulum Kavdragon Brownbear Uhg. And I wanted to spend my night doing something OTHER than building a big analysis for once. That being said, I just previewed all your posts.So many things i want to say... Analysis incoming. Finally, someone's doing something.
Actually rereading through your posts I don't remember why I put you on that list. So consider yourself stricken from it.
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On December 16 2010 13:54 DCLXVI wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2010 13:30 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 16 2010 13:08 DCLXVI wrote:On December 16 2010 12:58 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 16 2010 12:49 DCLXVI wrote:On December 16 2010 10:19 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 16 2010 03:28 DCLXVI wrote:On December 15 2010 22:49 d3_crescentia wrote: I don't pretend I'm good at analysis; in fact I'm probably trash terrible at it. Shortened because I have to go to work soon -_-
Here's what I noticed about the Zeks list in particular: - Much of the voting comes from Gabriel's early game analysis of Zeks. While Gabriel himself could be whatever, at least one of his supporters IS scum. Let's work on analyzing Gabriel and his early-game followers. - The discussion between DCLXVI and chaoser wrt to Kenpachi is particularly telling. Chaoser's defense is along the lines of "Kenpachi just posts that way" while DCLXVI's responses are "yeah but if he WERE mafia it'd be so easy for him to hide!" Something about this just doesn't strike me as particularly innocent on DCLXVI's part, as he seems to be posting an unnecessary defense of himself when Kenpachi died, and a lot of "we should do/have done X" statements recently. His vote for zeks isn't particularly well-justified; in fact it's a bit of a 180-degree turn as he suddenly shifted from "Kenpachi is scum" to "scum must have bandwagoned Kenpachi in the end to save zeks!" (Post on this sometime tonight as well)
Okay, off to work. Hope that's enough for you guys to chew on for tomorrow. Someone else come up with a night plan? In general, Gabriel might be good to check; DTA/Inf as well; DCLXVI cuz I think so. Medics protect who you can/find most compelling. Might as well pull a shockeyy and start defending myself heavily. Next time I would like to see you quote my posts instead of summarizing them tinted heavily from your perspective. If I truly act scummy then there is no need for you to change what my posts say. I voted for kenpachi because he acted scummy and was useless for the town. I said that the defense "well he normally acts scummy" is a terrible defense and we should still lynch him because he acts scummy. Umm, I flipped and thought zeks was highly likely to be scum because I found out that I was wrong day 1 and kenpachi was green? You never have to revise your views of people when we get more information? I didn't think gabe was red (and still don't) and I really didn't like your last minute bandwagon on shockeyy with lsb and amber. That sort of play just screams scum to me. Okay, I get it. You're just a trash poster, scum or not. WTF? Did you read what I posted? I accuse you of changing the meaning of my posts and you call me a trash poster? How does this have any relevance to what I posted? On December 10 2010 15:09 DCLXVI wrote: Alright just read the thread. All I have to say is fuck you Team Rocket, Oak is the best character in the game. How did TR even manage to sneak up on him? Oak can tell from halfway around the world when you get on a bike, but he can't see a few clumsy TR members?
Seriously though, I am confused by gabriel. he makes some decent points about hesmyrr looking active but no content and infund's poor logic, but then he supports his points terribly. He attacks everyone who responds to him and then ragequits. Then the people he attacked + brocket vote him. Not sure if brocket is a newbie or is scum jumping on a free bandwagon. I need to read though the thread a few times more to get a clear view of what is going on, but I would like to hear some more posts on why gabriel/brocket/hesmyrr/infund are posting the way they are, not just people jumping on one side or the other. Early in the game - a call for more discussion. This isn't particularly scummy yet. another "trashy" post of course On December 12 2010 03:39 DCLXVI wrote: Thank you insanious and tree.hugger, I hope to see more people post like that. I don't understand why people are letting Kenpachi off the hook for bad posting. So what if he has a history of being less than stellar for the town. We cannot allow him to spam and distract the town because even if he isn't mafia, this helps the mafia. He is playing in a way that benefits the mafia, so even if he isn't (though I think he is), he is dangerous for the town. I really don't like the defense used by darth and meepak of "oh, well this is just how he normally plays". Townies don't intentionally hurt the town by doing what kenpachi is doing. I'll hopefully be back in a bit before the vote ends, but I feel safe in putting my vote on Kenpachi. Every vote on him is a vote to clean up the town. Restatement of what tree.hugger/Insanious said; no real contribution of his own. Do you just read the first line of what I post and then ignore the rest? Because that is the only way I can understand what you are talking about. On December 12 2010 15:21 DCLXVI wrote:On December 12 2010 14:44 chaoser wrote: Guys...for everyone who played Salem...that's just how he plays -_- he was playing the exact same way he did in Salem, if he was mafia there would have been slight differences -_-. No comment. I did my best, I have no regrets Seriously though, I do not regret voting Kenpachi. He was distracting the thread from focusing on possible scum and was posting no relevant information. This does not help the town at all, and we were lucky that he was not a blue. Just because he normally acts scummy does not give him the right to post scummy. It would have been so easy for him to hide behind your terrible defense of him if he was mafia, and we cannot allow that to happen. @Meepak - Why do you want to vote for zeks or gabriel? Do you suspect mafia bandwagoned Kenpachi to save a teammate? Which one of them do you suspect more and why? Please answer these sorts of questions instead of posting accusatory one liners all the time. I was ready to write up a nice long post about the different people who defended kenpachi, but now that he has flipped green I need to rethink my arguments. Sorry for the lack of activity recently, let me sleep and in the morning I'll start pointing some fingers. Post-death justification when one was NOT NEEDED. We all knew Kenpachi was a trash poster in the first place (or at least I did) and that his death would not be missed. No one accused you of anything, so why bother to defend yourself? Because of some inner need to appear innocent at all times, perhaps? NOT NEEDED but asked for, notice I quoted someone who questioned the lynch. I'm sorry for further explaining my rationale behind voting, perhaps next till I will just randomly vote people off a list like you do: On December 14 2010 23:47 d3_crescentia wrote: ##vote: Shockeyy On December 15 2010 05:23 DCLXVI wrote: With the number of swing votes that happened last time, I think that it is very likely that some scum jumped on the kenpachi bandwagon to save zeks. Not that Gabriel is posting any better, but I think that it is more likely that zeks is scum. @amber I don't think we analyzed the night actions enough. We barely covered the possibilities of what happened, and didn't bother to speculate which player was killed by mewtwo. That in itself could prove helpful to finding mewtwo, as well as finding scum connected to the other players who died. and I loled at one inactive accusing another. And for those of us that have some BRAINS we realized that Zeks fell into the same category of posting as Kenpachi - trash terrible, but nonetheless a waste of a lynch. Also, if you bothered to do any THINKING at all you'd realize that it's in the best interest of Mewtwo to play town-aligned in the early game. Why are you interested in finding Mewtwo unless you were RED and worried about yourself? Maybe if you had some FORESIGHT you could've prepared better for losing mew. Now it will be even harder for us to find mewtwo, especially since people like you try to stop any town discussion like this. Notice the town cannot win with mewtwo alive, so while it might be in M2's best interest to appear townie, the town still needs to kill him. Why are you so scared of us finding mewtwo? Is that your role? On December 15 2010 05:39 DCLXVI wrote:On December 15 2010 05:31 Brocket wrote: I guess if a detective (alakazam or mew) wants to check me out that could be productive. I'll show up as either a true townie or a gengar pretending to be one. Chansey's honestly should just use their prevention on whoever they want to keep in and if they decide that they themselves are the most valuable then so be it. Give gabe/zeks a scan too if they survive the day vote and future night attacks.
I could be a blue. Or a townie pretending to be a blue. Would it matter too much to the town if I was killed off by mafia? I sort of think of it as taking one for the team so the blues can get a night off.
I could be mafia. I think I'd like to be just a koffing. I wouldn't know who to sleep as a weezing. I talk a lot as you can see but I try to be productive without any hard evidence (then again who does?).
As far as mewtwo is concerned, he's just a wild card that confuses the night attacks and he's more likely to kill townies than mafia the first few nights until our numbers sufficiently dwindle. Sad but true.
tl,dr; Hey guys I'm trying to confuse the town and withhold information but that's ok because I'm town or maybe I'm not but thats fine maybe blues should do what I tell them but maybe not because that could be bad and maybe mewtwo is bad for us now but good later so lets not worry aboutanything. Nice, finally some condescension. Too bad it isn't an actual push for a lynch. If you're not scum you're still being too fucking lazy about this, and if you are - well, that's the perfect level of sneerage to detract from your own posting. Maybe if you had some BRAINS you could've noticed the sarcasm in the post, pointing to the uselessness of brocket's post. I guess things like this are too subtle for players of your caliber. On December 15 2010 15:54 DCLXVI wrote:@LSB While I like your idea of forming up a list of all the inactive/scummy players and then using dt's (or mad H's) on them, I don't think that it is a viable strategy now. A list like that would have to include around 85% of the players. In fact I'll whip one up right now: + Show Spoiler +1. deconduo 2. BrownBear 3. Eiii 4. GGQ 5. LSB 6. DarthThienAn 7. RebirthOfLeGenD (Pikachu, Night 1 Kill) 8. Amber[LighT] 9. dinmsab 10. jcarlsoniv (Pikachu, Night 1 Kill) 11. DCLXVI 12. Ghrur 13. Kenpachi (Pikachu, Day 1 Lynch) 14. Node 15. KtheZ 16. tube 17. chaoser 18. Oceanic 19. Gabriel 20. Insanious 21. Meapak_Ziphh (Pikachu, Night 1 Kill) 22. Shockeyy 23. seRapH 24. Kavdragon 25. tree.hugger (Electrode, Night 1 Kill 26. Infundibulum 27. Pandain 28. Brocket 29. kitaman27 30. d3_crescentia 31. zeks Right now I am trying to get more active, but as far as I see there are about 5 seriously active players. That is why we cannot have the medics self protect like you asked tonight. Night one mafia+M2 took out 3 of the most active players, and I would bet that they will continue that trend tonight. We desperately need every last active player, so unless the medics themselves are high priority targets for the mafia, they should not self protect. I am not trying to open up the medics to be hit, but lets be reasonable. What motive does the mafia have to try to hit random lurking blues over the few active players? Not to mention if they hit mew, they are pretty much screwed. Medics please decide who you want to live and lead our scum hunting tomorrow, Dts follow your gut, same with electrodes. Vets just be tough It would be nice to have some dt's give us information in 2 days (three night checks) so that we know about 1/2 of the alignments with some room for error with millers / GF / fake claims. We could hope for ~2 scum revealed this way, with maybe one fake claimed scum. (all numbers estimated in my head with my assumptions, check yourself) However I think we need to see how desperate our plight is come that time, maybe it will not be necessary then. On the other hand, Double lynching is becoming increasingly necessary. With our multiple bandwagons forming and splitting each vote, it looks like the mafia is having an easy time pulling votes off their team and sending townies to the noose. If we lose to many more townies tonight we won't be able to control the lynch very well in the coming days. We need to take advantage the DL to try and catch back up against the mafia's kills. That is something we seriously need to consider and vote on tomorrow depending on the night kills and the level of town activity come tomorrow morning. I want to see the night kills before I comment on potential scummy players tomorrow. Good night, and make sure you are well prepared for any multiples of trouble. Nice general advice. Doesn't really say much except "Maybe on Day 5 DTs should reveal all they know," not accounting for the fact that the Mafia will target those that the DTs check. Maybe the DTs will check inactive players, but what's to stop the mafia from counterclaiming with their own fake DT and sowing more chaos? There needs to be a better plan than just "in 3 days let's reveal." Of course, I realize that you yourself don't have much confidence in this plan of yours, seeing as how it's just plain terrible for town. Or you might just be TR putting thoughts in our mind. So step up and defend yourself, or I'll be putting my vote on you first thing come Day. Yeah I guess I don't say much besides criticizing LSB's plan and commenting on the double lynch benefits and outline a decent plan for the medics to follow (which they didn't, and now we lost more active townies ). I guess I should post more like you: On December 16 2010 10:39 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 16 2010 10:35 LSB wrote: If I die, check out Shocky, D3, and Brocket I'm pretty sure I'm not TR. The other two might be worth a look though. And you call my posts trashy. All of my posts at least have a reason behind them, as I, unlike you, don't feel the need to spam to seem active and townie. So in an effort to be a better townie should I go back and summarize your posts however I like, call you an idiot, and then try to start a bandwagon on you? Because that seems like one of the scummiest plans I can think of, but you manage to pull it off and people think you are one of the towniest of us all. Congratulations on returning fire; don't you feel GREAT about yourself now that you've contributed a post that amounts to a "NO U"? I'm sorry, "medics protect who you think you should" isn't telling them anything they don't know already. Post some real content for fuck's sake, because criticism and disagreement means jack shit unless you provide alternatives. If you haven't noticed, I'm trying to get town back on the right track, whereas all you do is whine about how I've mischaracterized you instead of contributing. Go analyze some other people, unless you're too scared to out your scum buddies. You don't seem to understand that I am calling you out for doing a terrible analysis. You are not helping the town by doing so. Once again you take half of what I say and turn it to fit your fancy. I asked for the medics to protect the town leaders over themselves, READ MY POSTS. Also, what happened to the rest of your "analysis"? I'm just right so you ignore it and flame me? Why don't you post some REAL content instead of calling for everyone else to do it instead? I did read your posts. I found them wanting. If I'm doing a terrible analysis then do a better one. Make it on me. Make it on someone else. I don't really care; just make it so that you're doing it on someone and that town can benefit from the discussion. I am trying my best to offer something that resembles analysis, but if half the town is sitting around scratching their heads and saying "durr should we lynch shockeyy now" when we are down 4 blues then we are going to lose, period. That's the problem I have with you. You offer no viable alternatives. You offer vague plans. You offer mild criticism but don't push for anything concrete. If you think my posts are terrible and deliberately designed to mislead town then for fuck's sake get the entire town to vote me and be done with it. I find you "analysis" lacking. You also add nothing to the discussion, just attack random people with poor logic. I will take you up on your offer however. It seems as if kevdragon has claimed you though, so I will analyze Insanious instead. While I am composing it I would like to see you add something to the town too, and remember, quote don't summarize Good, let's do some solid work then. I'll post in the morning.
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Whoops, forgot to post in the morning. Working on that now.
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An analysis of Infundibulum:
On December 10 2010 10:51 Infundibulum wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 10:47 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 10:35 Hesmyrr wrote:On December 10 2010 10:25 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 10 2010 10:23 Hesmyrr wrote: Moreover D1 lynches are always crapshoot. It is good and fine to publicly discuss and prod one's suspects, but at least waiting until D2 so one have more actual data to support the case on him/her seems just better. This is a large setup so we cannot just afford to let all the lurkers pass-by. They're always crapshoot because we have players that go about finding scum in a crappy way. I suggest that everyone else vote for you as well. Chances of finding scum D2 > Chances of finding scum D1 always just purely on the basis that amount of information available will increase as the game progresses. Although lynching inactives is always a start, we shouldn't discount the power of day one analysis I've seen it many times actually. Kenpachi/Coagulation (Almost, but we switched)- Deconduo's Don't lose your village game Me/Pyrr- TLMMM 2 Masq- Haunted Mafia Bill Murray (Almost, but Ace made us switch x.x)- Penalty Mafia And many others... I don't like lynching inactives Day 1 because we run the risk of lynching someone that is going to be modkilled. Unless I am mistaken, DocH is running a rather strict modkill policy: miss a vote = modkill. So if we lynch someone that wasn't going to vote anyway, it's rather redundant. I am a man that strives for efficiency. I think this is his first post; someone correct me if I'm wrong. This is a solid line of rational thought; don't kill anyone that's going to die (kind of obvious, but meh).
On December 10 2010 11:03 Infundibulum wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 10:55 jcarlsoniv wrote:On December 10 2010 10:07 LSB wrote: ##Vote:Infundibulum Why? I already have 3 votes. Do I smell or something? First comment on the bandwagon on him. Nothing too wrong here; he's pretty calm about it. (Yes, he does.)
On December 10 2010 11:13 Infundibulum wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 11:06 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 10:55 jcarlsoniv wrote:On December 10 2010 10:07 LSB wrote: ##Vote:Infundibulum Why? Some of us (me) carry friendly grudges (my first mafia game) ^^ Oh haha, I forgot about that. If anything that should be like a compliment of sorts. Or something. Off-topic (spam, one might say) but it's not very significant anyway. Moving on...
On December 10 2010 11:22 Infundibulum wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 11:11 LSB wrote: Oh.
By Inactive, I mean someone who is lurking, maybe making one token post in the thread that isn't anything new and doesn't attempt to contribute anything at all, but still votes every day.
These are the uninterested townies, the lurkers, and the people studying for finals. Oh i see, we were kinda using different contextual definitions. Yeah by inactive i was thinking of the people that just never show up, not the 1 post 1 vote lurkers. In my experience most modkills happen during Day 1 or Day 2, a period during which it is difficult to distinguish true inactives from lurkers since they both exhibit similar behavior (i.e. very little). Lynching an 'inactive' Day 1 is always a nice neutral ground, but I feel that many people offer it as an excuse since they don't know what else to do (the same reason RNG always comes up, which is IMO worse than lynching inactives). A further explanation of the points made above. Again, this isn't particularly scummy and is beneficial to the town to know.
On December 10 2010 11:28 Infundibulum wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 11:25 Gabriel wrote:On December 10 2010 11:20 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 10 2010 11:12 Gabriel wrote:On December 10 2010 11:04 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 10 2010 10:58 Gabriel wrote:On December 10 2010 10:46 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 10 2010 10:42 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 10:34 jcarlsoniv wrote:On December 10 2010 10:31 LSB wrote: [quote] Wait. What? Lynch is less important than a DT check? I would rather waste a Day 1 lynch than a Day 1 DT I feel. Day 1 lynches are tough. Definitely not impossible, but tough when everything is just starting out. Using a DT on someone who isn't going to even bother contributing wouldn't be worth it. Using DT checks on active members is definitely more important. I'm a bit confused now though...You want to DT check inactives AND lynch inactives? That just seems like a waste of resources. Lets say there are three people that are lurking. That's not a far fetched number, mafia love to lurk. Sure we lynch one of them during day one, but what about the other ones? Not all the DTs have to check of course. But maybe setting something such as a probability system would be enough to flush out the mafia. Roll a 1 check inactive A. Roll a 2 check inactive B. Roll a 3 check whoever you want. That plan will need to be modified, if not scrapped once we get our D1 vote list out. I rather check the active player and lynch the inactive player. The active player right now is more likely to be +info in the future anyways, while the inactive is just... well... inactive. By the way one of the worst game aproachs is the "im noob just reading and getting used to play". If you are town you rather post something small but with actual meaning. I still have a decent target day 1 unless he posts a few more than oneliners. Inactives is also my treasure box. I have no idea what that last line means. Why don't you tell us/vote for who your "decent target"? +info always benefits town. I have a half decent target in the "im new guys" list. However right now i really want to flip Infundibulum because A) He came out of nowhere to dismiss lynching inactives (and that is really nonsense for a player that has played a lot of games) B) I cant believe jcarsoniv just posted a single Why? to LSB vote. With a game of 31 people and a little more than half the people having posted recently it's just dumb to blindvote someone for "just showing up." What do you read into the line about efficiency that I don't? Is it really efficient at this point lynch an active player over the inactive that is going to die anyways?? Really? I mean mafia is not going to die because he doesnt vote, blues are not going to die because they dont vote. Meh i want to flip infundibulum badly. It is stupid to lynch someone that is going to be modkilled because that is like not lynching anybody at all. That is what my first post was trying to say. Conflict with Gabriel. Gabriel takes an aggressive stance; Infundibulum with a cool defense. It actually seems somewhat suspicious of an attack for Gabriel now that I reread it.
On December 10 2010 11:42 Infundibulum wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 11:35 Gabriel wrote:On December 10 2010 11:28 Infundibulum wrote:On December 10 2010 11:25 Gabriel wrote:On December 10 2010 11:20 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 10 2010 11:12 Gabriel wrote:On December 10 2010 11:04 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 10 2010 10:58 Gabriel wrote:On December 10 2010 10:46 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 10 2010 10:42 LSB wrote: [quote] Lets say there are three people that are lurking. That's not a far fetched number, mafia love to lurk. Sure we lynch one of them during day one, but what about the other ones? Not all the DTs have to check of course. But maybe setting something such as a probability system would be enough to flush out the mafia. Roll a 1 check inactive A. Roll a 2 check inactive B. Roll a 3 check whoever you want. That plan will need to be modified, if not scrapped once we get our D1 vote list out. I rather check the active player and lynch the inactive player. The active player right now is more likely to be +info in the future anyways, while the inactive is just... well... inactive. By the way one of the worst game aproachs is the "im noob just reading and getting used to play". If you are town you rather post something small but with actual meaning. I still have a decent target day 1 unless he posts a few more than oneliners. Inactives is also my treasure box. I have no idea what that last line means. Why don't you tell us/vote for who your "decent target"? +info always benefits town. I have a half decent target in the "im new guys" list. However right now i really want to flip Infundibulum because A) He came out of nowhere to dismiss lynching inactives (and that is really nonsense for a player that has played a lot of games) B) I cant believe jcarsoniv just posted a single Why? to LSB vote. With a game of 31 people and a little more than half the people having posted recently it's just dumb to blindvote someone for "just showing up." What do you read into the line about efficiency that I don't? Is it really efficient at this point lynch an active player over the inactive that is going to die anyways?? Really? I mean mafia is not going to die because he doesnt vote, blues are not going to die because they dont vote. Meh i want to flip infundibulum badly. It is stupid to lynch someone that is going to be modkilled because that is like not lynching anybody at all. That is what my first post was trying to say. Well now that you have started posting it is not "lynching anybody" to lynch you. And the big fallacy there is that we just dont know who is going to be modkilled because it is enough for a guy to vote or even abstain at the last minute. So your argument is: we shouldnt vote inactives because they are going to be modkilled, except that the ones that we want to get sniped are those that are actually not modkilled (whatever the definition of inactive you may have). Im still voting Infundibulum. Kenpachi is still missing? There is no fallacy. It is hard to distinguish active lurkers from genuinely inactive players during Day 1 to Day 2. In the interest of not running the risk wasting a town lynch I am of the opinion that we can start to eliminate active lurkers around Day 3 or probably even 2 if things go well. If you disagree with me that is fine, but I'm not sure how your logic is leading you to think that I'm red. Clarification, and I think this seals the deal as far as discussion on this subject goes.
This is potentially helpful for the town, but having players read mafiascum will change mafia playstyles at the very least.
On December 10 2010 13:30 Infundibulum wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 13:09 Hesmyrr wrote:On December 10 2010 12:52 Infundibulum wrote: Because the cop wants to not be found by the mafia so he should know how people look for him And because the medic wants to find the cop so he can protect him. ...What? (More specifically, encouraging Cop to hide his cop-tells while encouraging Medic to protect the people who are showing cop-tells.) i know it's contradictory. but it is true that medics want to protect dts and mafia want to kill dts. i think the real point is that it does not at all hurt town to read that article, which seemed to me was what LSB was implying.
On December 10 2010 13:35 Infundibulum wrote: Rather though, the medic is more focused on finding the cop when it's a small game setup with 1 of each role.
In a larger game like this medics are probably better off focusing on protecting people that are actively protown and the detective is better off not being found out. Hence me posting the ways that people tend to find the detective, so he can catch himself from falling into any common tells.
Okay. It doesn't hurt the townies as individuals to be more well-versed in what could be done. This is pretty pro-town thus far.
On December 11 2010 04:33 Infundibulum wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 04:28 LSB wrote: The problem isn't that his post came early. 5 hours is a lot of time and enough to get a feel for how people act I disagree with this, especially considering the wide range of time zones people are in on TL. Also a solid point.
On December 11 2010 22:46 Infundibulum wrote: Hey, i have to work a 12 hour shift today so more than likely i won't be around for the end of the day.
i think i'm going to put my vote on zeks. this isn't a retaliatory vote, but mostly i don't want to see the votes spread out around like 5 targets, but rather 2-3 because that makes voting analysis much easier later on.
as for zeks' play, let me just say that he is almost always like this no matter what color he is. the short posts and lack of activity make him harder to read whether he is town or mafia and i've seen a few games where he actively lurks (both green and red) and tends to get away with it. i don't know how much i think he is red but i think him or kenpachi are both fine choices (at least right now, so much changes in 12 hours that everything is gonna be different more than likely because they will come and make their cases etc).
that is all the time i really have to post. just try not to get spread out on several targets because this lets the mafia tip the vote to a town player. An adequate post for the context it was given. In hindsight, neither Kenpachi nor Zeks were mafia.
On December 11 2010 04:50 Infundibulum wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 04:15 Hesmyrr wrote: There is one possible reason why I am willing to give Gabriel null-read for now, but I am going to wait for him to come and explain himself first to see if his argument agrees with mine. Am i the only one that thinks this is a rather pointless post? I agreed with this.
On December 13 2010 07:55 Infundibulum wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2010 05:33 DarthThienAn wrote:Brocketplaying the newbie card quite a bit, which I don't like. But On December 10 2010 23:35 Brocket wrote: Good points raised by amber. I think it can go either way as well. If Gabe gave solid arguments that were easy to follow then I would honestly have not voted for him. It's like a vote for reason. As it stands I won't be changing my vote for this day phase but I admit it was too hasty.
I think it should be emphasised that any one of us voting for gabe could be mafia too (or people voting off infund for that matter) and with 31 players it won't be that hard to get gabe out of the hot water if we want to keep him. On December 11 2010 22:51 Brocket wrote: ##unvote gabriel ##vote kenpachi herpdederp.. On December 11 2010 14:19 Brocket wrote: I think whatever Gabe did so far pales in comparison to the outbursts we're getting recently. I'm reconsidering my vote. This is the kind of useless post that you should look out for. What does it say? What does it do for the town? Absolutely nothing, except give Brocket an easy way out. Can easily be interpreted as a "I might need to switch my vote later on to save my scumbuddy." On December 11 2010 14:58 Brocket wrote: If you want to pick mafia. I can guarantee you one of us picking gabe is a mafia. Just for future reference in case I somehow die overnight somehow. I'm not paranoid or nothing. What does this post even mean? How do you know someone picking him is mafia? Other than the fact that you're mafia and you noticed that one of you is voting for Gabriel? On December 11 2010 16:46 Brocket wrote: I'm taking what gabe said with a grain of salt. But I should do the same for everybody else. Sounds pretty rough but if gabe turns out to be a villager then people have a lot of explaining to do.
Yet another wishy-washy, non-committal post. Especially the bolded part. On December 11 2010 22:48 Brocket wrote: If you guys are gunning for kenpachi, then what about jcarlsoniv? It seems like they're a couple.
Also the arguments for kenpachi/zeks are compelling. I think gabe is pretty glad that others are voting for these two so I have to ignore what gabe says honestly, for now.
I'm also more curious about whether kenpachi is a mafia than gabriel is. Because kenpachi seems to be more likely mafia than gabriel at this point (im putting gabe down as a quasi helpful townie for now) I will change my vote to kenpachi.
Please excuse my laziness to format the capitals/potential grammar mistakes. I came back from a party just now but my will to change vote is strong. Cool, so you've told us that Kenpachi more likely mafia than Gabriel. What about zeks? You read the analysis. You "took it with a grain of salt." On December 12 2010 14:22 Brocket wrote: = /. Massive sigh. So kenpachi was voted out because:
He was a pikachu who acted like mafia. Why would you even do that? Gah. The mafia know who's on their team right? You're the reason why we can't have nice things Kenpachi.
He was a pikachu who made out to be mafia by mafia who knew he's always acted suss consistently in every game. I am so disappoint. "Massive sigh." Good acting How do you know it was the mafia that framed Kenpachi? Why are you disappoint? A townie died. On December 12 2010 18:19 Brocket wrote: I regret changing my vote to kenpachi. As a direct result we have to keep gabe for another night/day's worth of discussion. God help us all.
Mafia please kill him or me. Kthx. tbh, I don't see what all the rage is about Gabriel's posting. It's somewhat hard to understand sometimes but it's not as terrible/lacking as some others in the thread, and he's made several good points during the first day. On December 13 2010 01:10 Brocket wrote: Zeks and kenpachi, but kenpachi and jcarl seemed to back eachother up and focus attention on gabriel. In fact I thought if kenpachi turned out to be mafia, then jcarl would also be mafia so it was a sort of 2 for 1. People did put good arguments for zeks but because I didn't notice him much I didn't think about him, which I suppose makes the arguments against him stronger.
Feel free to look at what I've said. I've mostly just been looking at what people have been saying and then briefly looked at 'analyses' of what people said if you want to save yourself some time. Start contributing your own thoughts to the thread. kthxbye. -- I don't feel like explaining anymore~ the names on the list are just people who I've noticed after day 1. Let's watch who the mafia hit because it's always in their best interest to snipe people who are hot on their tails. Also in their best interest to kill off the active members, more so than blues I'd say. For example, I'd rather target a townie Qatol than a Again, these are just suspicious people. Looking back at that voting list, I think I'd throw deconduo onto my list as well. Haven't looked at his posts thoroughly, but I feel like he just came in, voted, and left. I actually think Brocket might be a smurf and he's playing the newbie card to cover that up. Some of the questions are downright silly ("the mafia know who's on their team, right?") I think both him and DTA have pointed brocket in the past. Brocket has since said he's not a smurf, but it might be a good idea to reconsider brocket.
On December 14 2010 14:52 Infundibulum wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2010 10:05 Node wrote:On December 14 2010 09:41 Hesmyrr wrote: Hey guys, so I don't know what's going on, but a voltorb that was on me apparently exploded at 12/13/10 15:05 (because mod fails). Fortunately my unwitting wit and shell has saved me, but no longer I boast that powerful shell that guaranteed my survival.
So... I am Cloyster, voltorb exploded on me and my extra night live was removed because tree.hugger is FAILURE That's an interesting claim. I'm inclined to believe it -- Hesmyrr has been fairly active, has been stating clear positions on who should be lynched, and in general seems like a town-aligned player willing to put himself out there to risk hits (veteran-style play). In fact, after re-reading his posts I'm not entirely sure where the suspicions of Hesmyrr being scum have come from, and I'll be taking a closer look at those who were putting a lot of pressure on him. I think he's telling the truth, but i dunno why Hesmyrr had to tell us his role. I mean all that does is give the mafia extra information - they know now that 1 vet is down a life and whoever replaces Hesmyrr can be hit and killed (barring medic of course). All he had to say was "I took the bomb hit," and it tells us what we need to know. I'm really puzzled by the roleclaim part of it. And lo and behold, this happened. I would like to point out that it was unclear as to whether or not medics could save people who got bombed.
On December 15 2010 06:08 Infundibulum wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2010 04:01 dinmsab wrote: My vote is on Gabriel, for now. I'm not exactly convinced he's scummy but our discussions so far are pretty unconvincing and in the middle of this shitstorm is Gabriel.
Imo, I think people should start to discuss on other things rather than random bs finger pointing. People could give advice to blues on what to do etc etc, that would be much more helpful than what we're currently doing.
.. and no, i'm not a blue asking for advice. If mafia wants to kill me off then do so, I don't mind taking one for the team. I don't understand why you would vote for someone you don't think is Scummy. This is also the same thing you did day 1. "Someone should really make a list of inactives" "Someone should really start giving advice to blues" If you want to do it, why not you? Some blue advice: Medics: based on day 1, it looks like mafia could be targeting active townies who are contributing to discussion. Keep this in mind for your protections. Think like "if i was a mafia, who would i hit?" that is who you protect. Detectives: people I would check if i was a detective zeks Gabriel infundibulum amber[light] ghrur With 4 hours left in the day, I think it's more important to come up with a lynch candidate. People I think are actively lurking ghrur seraph Oceanic With that said let me read the thread because I haven't read all the pages yet. Provides a good list for checking. I agree(d) with the check list before half the people on it died. Although - if you apply a little WIFOM here it could be that the list he posted would entice a TR hit as well, thus making the DT checks useless.
On December 15 2010 06:49 Infundibulum wrote:My thoughts on each candidate so far: Shockeyy: voted kenpachi, but so did half the town and i can't blame any of them for doing that. LSB and amber say he is obvious scum, but they haven't said why. His defense is "why am i picked out when there are so many others?" is shitty, so Shockeyy maybe you should step up so you don't have to be picked out. Personally, i think he might be a lurking blue that was trying to avoid the spotlight and now got dragged into it. The fact that he thought kenpachi's soft blue claim was fake adds some weight to this possibility, imo. Gabriel: The man at the center of attention. He is a polarizing figure so it's understandable that he attracts votes. But look what happened today: almost immediately, people like Brocket and zeks start calling for his head. I think this is because Gabriel is an easy target: he kinda fucked up Day 1, and it's easy to push a lynch on him because of that. Look at how his behavior changed from Day 1 to Day 2, he is now much less confrontational and less active. it's hard to say if this is because he's scum trying to cover his tracks, or town who realized he went too far and tried to ease up a little. I think he is an easy choice to pick at so there are going to be both townies and mafia pushing for his lynch. If Gabriel is red, then it's a good move by them to bus him since he is so suspicious to many people. If he's town, then they can get away with it by saying "well he was playing really bad." What seals it for me is this post by Brocket, specifically the bold part" Show nested quote +On December 15 2010 05:57 Brocket wrote: Out from left field. I didn't see GGQ coming. I agree zeks would have been voted out day 1 because of kenpachi. Honestly if Gabriel wasn't here I'd vote him too. But I've already said kenpachi and jcarl lynched and dead as townies and gabriel's strong motive to FoS zeks to survive confound the zeks-is-scum argument. I want to see gabriel's identity, since he's failed to convince me from day 1 and the only recourse is by lynch.
I am set on voting gabriel because I think he's mafia. I appreciate the people so far who voted with me for day 2 because that means they've read my posts and thought 'hey that Brocket dude is pretty handsome and makes a lot of sense'.
If for some outlandish reason I am delirious and Gabe turns out to be townie, I invite suspicion upon myself and throw myself onto the sword. I will vote myself day 3 because I would know that nothing I said was productive at all and I would feel guilty that I got Gabe the 'helpful' townie lynched. But until that happens, it's vote 1 gabe. Vote him dead. I have seen several times a red post something like that part and then get away with it after a townie is lynched. I am 95% sure Gabriel is being set up right now. Zeks: I think GGQ made a huge catch here and I almost want to vote zeks because of that alone. Combined with zeks going after the easy target in Gabriel, I am more suspicious of him than I was Day 1, when zeks narrowly evaded the noose. This is something that I really disagree with, but it's because I felt strongly Zeks was town on Day 2. As bad of a town as Kenpachi was, but town nonetheless. I'm not sure how I feel about GGQ here, as he pointed out something that would in other circumstances be a pretty strong scumtell, but since zeks turned out clean one could WIFOM it, i.e. GGQ posted this so that zeks would take more heat as opposed to himself (who hasn't been posting much).
On December 15 2010 06:49 Infundibulum wrote: Addendum: we should strongly consider voting double lynch tomorrow If we don't hit a red today.
On December 15 2010 06:54 Infundibulum wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2010 06:51 Kavdragon wrote: One quick note. I was(am) writting up an analysis of this day's voting, and I'd like to remind people that we do have two double lynches.
I actually think that we should use one right now, but if it get the town to stop bickering about Zeks and Gabe, then perhaps it will be of benefit. What do you guys think? Do we have a strategy for double lynches? Generally we want to use a double lynch before the mafia has a lot of vote swinging power. I like to start double lynching on Day 3 or 4 (remember, if we vote for double lynch on Day 3 it doesn't come active until Day 4) because around this time detectives have usually hit at least 1 red if they are playing well. In addition, if we miss the lynch today we will almost have to vote for double lynch tomorrow in order to increase our chances of catching up to the mafia in terms of kills, especially since we can't count on M2 and there is no vigilante role that is town aligned. Okay, here's when I start to disagree. In fact I vehemently disagree. Voting double lynch when we have no good targets is suicide, because it's more likely for mafia to doubly confuse players. We have a wide variety of targets we can vote with all of the inactives we have, though I think we're taking a step in the right direction with the recent turn of events.
On December 15 2010 07:07 Infundibulum wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2010 06:53 Brocket wrote: Good post Infund. Well as I said, I'm happy to vote myself day 3 should gabe be a red.
I've never supported Zeks, I only suggested Gabe was a higher priority because there is evidence (set up or otherwise) pointing against him.
I'll thrown in an extra. Whether zeks or gabe gets voted out as townie, I'll vote myself day 3. No worries. i think you mean should gabe be a town? in any case voting for yourself doesn't do anything, so I don't know what you're trying to prove. Pressure on brocket. Though it doesn't tell anything about himself, it's an adequate point on brocket.
On December 15 2010 08:46 Infundibulum wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2010 08:32 BrownBear wrote: I am here, voting for myself again because I'm not superconvinced by any arguments so far. That said, having Hesmyrr as a (mostly) confirmed town voice is nice. That is seriously all you have to say? What is not convincing? Do you have any better alternatives?? Pressure on BrownBear for not doing jack shit. Something anyone could do, though the large majority of people haven't seen fit to do so.
My overall read on Infundibulum: most likely town. I am very much against the double lynch, though, which is the only thing that remains questionable with regard to Inf at this point. We need good targets before we lynch, and that means we need to root through inactives and get them posting.
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Time for a reply.
On December 16 2010 14:58 Kavdragon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 10:03 d3_crescentia wrote: Hesmyrr with the insubstantial "I agree" post. Let's watch out for him. Second post he made is criticizing another person. I think that it’s funny that Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 10:25 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 10 2010 10:23 Hesmyrr wrote: Moreover D1 lynches are always crapshoot. It is good and fine to publicly discuss and prod one's suspects, but at least waiting until D2 so one have more actual data to support the case on him/her seems just better. This is a large setup so we cannot just afford to let all the lurkers pass-by. They're always crapshoot because we have players that go about finding scum in a crappy way. I suggest that everyone else vote for you as well. And so the Bash fest starts. Why not suggest a less crappy way of going about finding scum D1? If you hadn't noticed it, I'm going about it by example. I thought Hesmyrr was scum, so I voted him to force a response from town and mafia. If town supported my views then we'd be able to find out. If mafia decided to join we'd have something to work with as well.
On December 16 2010 14:58 Kavdragon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 10:32 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 10 2010 10:31 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 10:26 jcarlsoniv wrote:On December 10 2010 10:21 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 10:19 jcarlsoniv wrote:On December 10 2010 10:17 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 10:15 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 10 2010 10:11 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 10:02 d3_crescentia wrote: 48 hours is not a long time to find scum. Let's start now.
LSB's blue plan is pretty meh. It's not a good plan of attack for our Zams to check lurkers and inactives; they should be checking people who could be scum, including whoever is contributing the most. Keep in mind that all the mafia needs to do is to distract and confuse the town enough so that they make poor decisions.
Remember, the town's best weapon is analysis. By checking the inactives, we flush out the mafia to the limelight where they easily could be found. We want the mafia to attempt to distract the town, this way we can catch onto what they are doing. The town has to be vigilant to guard against these attempts + Show Spoiler +Discussing a plan is one of the best ways to generate activity and catch a scum btw I'd rather we just kill the inactives. I think checking them is a waste. The problem is that Lynching an inactive takes up an entire town lynch, which is far more useful and powerful than a DT check. Our lynches must work twords lowering mafia KP. At the same time, DTs must be used to work towards lowering mafia KP too. Analysis is great, but it can only go so far before WIFOM kicks in and confirmation is needed. Again, what do you propose to do about inactives? Well, here is my thought process. Wasting a lynch on an inactive sucks. However, I would prefer to use a lynch than a DT. Using a lynch is hit or miss, but it only wastes one action, while making more headway to finding scum with the DT. Using the DT on inactives pretty much wastes the DT if it is on town, while a lynch on a player is still a bit hit or miss (unless good analysis is done), and accidentally lynching an active townie would be more hurtful than an inactive townie. I am hoping it does not come to this and that everyone contributes though. I would love for a game without a bagillion modkills. Wait. What? Lynch is less important than a DT check? Seconded. That is kind of bullshit. Do you really need to say this? It seems totally unnecessary, and harmful to the town to bash people like this. Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 10:43 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 10 2010 10:35 Hesmyrr wrote:On December 10 2010 10:25 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 10 2010 10:23 Hesmyrr wrote: Moreover D1 lynches are always crapshoot. It is good and fine to publicly discuss and prod one's suspects, but at least waiting until D2 so one have more actual data to support the case on him/her seems just better. This is a large setup so we cannot just afford to let all the lurkers pass-by. They're always crapshoot because we have players that go about finding scum in a crappy way. I suggest that everyone else vote for you as well. Chances of finding scum D2 > Chances of finding scum D1 always just purely on the basis that amount of information available will increase as the game progresses. So let's increase the amount of information available now. Why aren't you a good lynch candidate? You've contributed virtually nothing to the thread and are encouraging us to take a passive role in finding scum. Um… At this point you’ve not contributed anything great to the thread either. Your first post had some non-comittal plans, but was mostly just a disagreement with LSB. Why don’t you follow your own advice? Fair point.
On December 16 2010 14:58 Kavdragon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 10:46 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 10 2010 10:42 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 10:34 jcarlsoniv wrote:On December 10 2010 10:31 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 10:26 jcarlsoniv wrote:On December 10 2010 10:21 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 10:19 jcarlsoniv wrote:On December 10 2010 10:17 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 10:15 d3_crescentia wrote: [quote] I'd rather we just kill the inactives. I think checking them is a waste. The problem is that Lynching an inactive takes up an entire town lynch, which is far more useful and powerful than a DT check. Our lynches must work twords lowering mafia KP. At the same time, DTs must be used to work towards lowering mafia KP too. Analysis is great, but it can only go so far before WIFOM kicks in and confirmation is needed. Again, what do you propose to do about inactives? Well, here is my thought process. Wasting a lynch on an inactive sucks. However, I would prefer to use a lynch than a DT. Using a lynch is hit or miss, but it only wastes one action, while making more headway to finding scum with the DT. Using the DT on inactives pretty much wastes the DT if it is on town, while a lynch on a player is still a bit hit or miss (unless good analysis is done), and accidentally lynching an active townie would be more hurtful than an inactive townie. I am hoping it does not come to this and that everyone contributes though. I would love for a game without a bagillion modkills. Wait. What? Lynch is less important than a DT check? I would rather waste a Day 1 lynch than a Day 1 DT I feel. Day 1 lynches are tough. Definitely not impossible, but tough when everything is just starting out. Using a DT on someone who isn't going to even bother contributing wouldn't be worth it. Using DT checks on active members is definitely more important. I'm a bit confused now though...You want to DT check inactives AND lynch inactives? That just seems like a waste of resources. Lets say there are three people that are lurking. That's not a far fetched number, mafia love to lurk. Sure we lynch one of them during day one, but what about the other ones? Not all the DTs have to check of course. But maybe setting something such as a probability system would be enough to flush out the mafia. Roll a 1 check inactive A. Roll a 2 check inactive B. Roll a 3 check whoever you want. That plan will need to be modified, if not scrapped once we get our D1 vote list out. Hey look! More disagreements, without giving a alternative….Huh. That accusation sounds familiar… Another fair point.
On December 16 2010 14:58 Kavdragon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 11:04 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 10 2010 10:58 Gabriel wrote:On December 10 2010 10:46 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 10 2010 10:42 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 10:34 jcarlsoniv wrote:On December 10 2010 10:31 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 10:26 jcarlsoniv wrote:On December 10 2010 10:21 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 10:19 jcarlsoniv wrote: [quote]
At the same time, DTs must be used to work towards lowering mafia KP too. Analysis is great, but it can only go so far before WIFOM kicks in and confirmation is needed. Again, what do you propose to do about inactives? Well, here is my thought process. Wasting a lynch on an inactive sucks. However, I would prefer to use a lynch than a DT. Using a lynch is hit or miss, but it only wastes one action, while making more headway to finding scum with the DT. Using the DT on inactives pretty much wastes the DT if it is on town, while a lynch on a player is still a bit hit or miss (unless good analysis is done), and accidentally lynching an active townie would be more hurtful than an inactive townie. I am hoping it does not come to this and that everyone contributes though. I would love for a game without a bagillion modkills. Wait. What? Lynch is less important than a DT check? I would rather waste a Day 1 lynch than a Day 1 DT I feel. Day 1 lynches are tough. Definitely not impossible, but tough when everything is just starting out. Using a DT on someone who isn't going to even bother contributing wouldn't be worth it. Using DT checks on active members is definitely more important. I'm a bit confused now though...You want to DT check inactives AND lynch inactives? That just seems like a waste of resources. Lets say there are three people that are lurking. That's not a far fetched number, mafia love to lurk. Sure we lynch one of them during day one, but what about the other ones? Not all the DTs have to check of course. But maybe setting something such as a probability system would be enough to flush out the mafia. Roll a 1 check inactive A. Roll a 2 check inactive B. Roll a 3 check whoever you want. That plan will need to be modified, if not scrapped once we get our D1 vote list out. I rather check the active player and lynch the inactive player. The active player right now is more likely to be +info in the future anyways, while the inactive is just... well... inactive. By the way one of the worst game aproachs is the "im noob just reading and getting used to play". If you are town you rather post something small but with actual meaning. I still have a decent target day 1 unless he posts a few more than oneliners. Inactives is also my treasure box. I have no idea what that last line means. Why don't you tell us/vote for who your "decent target"? +info always benefits town. Another short unhelpful post. Why don’t you add some info to the town, eh? Seriously, you’ve called for “more info” multiple times, but haven’t added anything thus far… Well, I *am* trying to call out players for not following through. At this point I've said that I don't think Hesmyrr is being very town, since he hasn't been proactive in doing anything and come in with a bunch of "I agree" posts. What I especially disagree with is that in the early game people will say "well I think I have a target but I'll wait and see what he does..." This is just bad play.
On December 16 2010 14:58 Kavdragon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 11:05 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 10 2010 11:00 zeks wrote: Lynch inactives or eventually they'll burn us in the ass in the end when we're fighting amongst each other
6 scum + 1 third party = 7 / 31 = 22% chance of sniping someone. I haven't played for a couple months but most the player list looks relatively foreign to me so I'm assuming theres quite a number of new players (over half?)
From what I've seen from past games newb scum tend to lurk (correct me if I'm wrong) so we shouldn't give a free pass to inactives. And with new players we don't have any material from past games to work with. And why don't you put your money where your mouth is and vote for an inactive instead of jumping on the bandwagon some clown started? LOL. Same to you my friend, Same to you. (Minus the whole jumping on a bandwagon part…) Also, your bashing the person who started it. Why not articulate your complaint against that person, instead of just calling them a clown? That was my complaint. I suppose I could have elaborated about what a bad poster he is.
On December 16 2010 14:58 Kavdragon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 11:20 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 10 2010 11:12 Gabriel wrote:On December 10 2010 11:04 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 10 2010 10:58 Gabriel wrote:On December 10 2010 10:46 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 10 2010 10:42 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 10:34 jcarlsoniv wrote:On December 10 2010 10:31 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 10:26 jcarlsoniv wrote: [quote]
Well, here is my thought process. Wasting a lynch on an inactive sucks. However, I would prefer to use a lynch than a DT. Using a lynch is hit or miss, but it only wastes one action, while making more headway to finding scum with the DT. Using the DT on inactives pretty much wastes the DT if it is on town, while a lynch on a player is still a bit hit or miss (unless good analysis is done), and accidentally lynching an active townie would be more hurtful than an inactive townie.
I am hoping it does not come to this and that everyone contributes though. I would love for a game without a bagillion modkills. Wait. What? Lynch is less important than a DT check? I would rather waste a Day 1 lynch than a Day 1 DT I feel. Day 1 lynches are tough. Definitely not impossible, but tough when everything is just starting out. Using a DT on someone who isn't going to even bother contributing wouldn't be worth it. Using DT checks on active members is definitely more important. I'm a bit confused now though...You want to DT check inactives AND lynch inactives? That just seems like a waste of resources. Lets say there are three people that are lurking. That's not a far fetched number, mafia love to lurk. Sure we lynch one of them during day one, but what about the other ones? Not all the DTs have to check of course. But maybe setting something such as a probability system would be enough to flush out the mafia. Roll a 1 check inactive A. Roll a 2 check inactive B. Roll a 3 check whoever you want. That plan will need to be modified, if not scrapped once we get our D1 vote list out. I rather check the active player and lynch the inactive player. The active player right now is more likely to be +info in the future anyways, while the inactive is just... well... inactive. By the way one of the worst game aproachs is the "im noob just reading and getting used to play". If you are town you rather post something small but with actual meaning. I still have a decent target day 1 unless he posts a few more than oneliners. Inactives is also my treasure box. I have no idea what that last line means. Why don't you tell us/vote for who your "decent target"? +info always benefits town. I have a half decent target in the "im new guys" list. However right now i really want to flip Infundibulum because A) He came out of nowhere to dismiss lynching inactives (and that is really nonsense for a player that has played a lot of games) B) I cant believe jcarsoniv just posted a single Why? to LSB vote. With a game of 31 people and a little more than half the people having posted recently it's just dumb to blindvote someone for "just showing up." What do you read into the line about efficiency that I don't? Ok, again, want to suggest an alternative? Seriously dude, how did I miss your hypocritical bashing before now? Hesmyrr. I guess I could have SHOUTED LOUDER and call people dumbasses in the early game when there wasn't any danger.
On December 16 2010 14:58 Kavdragon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 12:12 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 10 2010 12:11 Gabriel wrote:On December 10 2010 12:01 Oceanic wrote:On December 10 2010 11:57 Gabriel wrote:On December 10 2010 11:44 Kenpachi wrote:On December 10 2010 11:40 Gabriel wrote:On December 10 2010 11:34 Kenpachi wrote:On December 10 2010 11:20 Gabriel wrote:Interesting: my half good "im new" shot is now voting for me. Kenpachi care to explain A) your vote B) your deep posts? + Show Spoiler +On December 10 2010 07:11 Kenpachi wrote: oh shit.. i cant really imagine Professor Oak dead D: On December 10 2010 07:47 Kenpachi wrote: Pikachu - Townie Raichu - Miller Chansey - Medic Cloyster - Veteran Alakazam - Detective Electrode - Mad Hatter Mew - Special Detective
Gengar - God Father Koffing - Mafia Grunt Weezing - Mafia Shrink
Mewtwo - 3rd Party Vigilante
notice how our only way of killing at night is Mad Hatter and 3rd party.. 3rd party is technically against us and will probably kill town over mafia due to immunity and their goal is to be last alive. On December 10 2010 07:50 Kenpachi wrote: yea claiming is a no no. and i hate lynching inactives. doesnt work at all. On December 10 2010 08:01 Kenpachi wrote: how many people can Mafia target per night? On December 10 2010 08:12 Kenpachi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 08:11 Eiii wrote:There always seem to be posts about how we all need to establish a 'pro-town environment', which is obvious of course I (and I'm sure lots of other newer players) have no clue what that *means* though, especially when we can't PM each other. (That might turn out to be more of a blessing than a curse though.) So... can someone enlighten me? basically, where we can point out scum easily without confusing them as town.. i think On December 10 2010 08:14 Kenpachi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 08:13 KtheZ wrote: Do we have a limited amount of double lynches? I think its 2. what would posting history 4 hours into the game show you? A) You dont want to be active posting B) You want to "look" active C) You read the rules but you actually dont know mafia KP? That was rare. D) You dont want to lynch inactives because that doesnt work. E) You want enlightment. F) You vote for me out of literally nowhere. I mean: i post to flip Infundibulum and you come right after me. Care to explain at least? A) 4 hours does not judge that. what if i went on TL tomorrow for the first time in the past 3 days? B) Anyone who posts would want to look active.. Why would they post if they want to look inactive? C) Why are you assuming i read the rules? how do you know i didnt just assume the KP? D) It doesnt. shh E) ?? its enlightenment F) I dont agree with you voting for Infundibulum. A) Well you just wrote 7 one liners and have yet to post something relevant. B) But you are NOT. It is not about how you look. Come on that is not an argument, so you post one liners to look active? what is that? Sparta? C) Well you actually read the rules because you posted the pokemon/classicmafia relation. I wonder why you just couldnt look for the mafia KP, and insisted to look clueless asking for it. D) It doesnt? well you were pretty much inactive and so was Infundibulum. Maybe it does.E) You think too much. You have again 2 posts where you "think" about this "think" about that, when it is clear that those post refer to info available in the opening rules. This heavily smells like "im not too sure, i dont know" plot. F) So you agree that you are protecting infundibulum by voting me: More reason to flip him!. This logic is flawed since the game just started. So they didn't post right at the start and their first post was later then a lot of people's. So they were inactive til their first post? What about all the other people that haven't posted yet. When they make their first post are you going to say the same thing about them? After all, they were even later and therefore must be even more suspicious? Note that Kenpachi was actually posting since the start of the thread. People is inactive because we are just starting the game but nonsense has to be pinned down as soon as it comes out. I find hilariously weird that a guy posting one liners comes right after i vote Infundibulum (with a reason that may or may not be strong for other players) and simply votes Gabriel because he doesnt like my vote on Infundibulum. What do you think? Is that normal? He didnt even posted that. So is this your first game? More bashing. Totally unhelpful. I wanted to know. If it was, he'd earn some leeway; if he wasn't then he'd need to be watched more carefully.
On December 16 2010 14:58 Kavdragon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 13:52 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 10 2010 12:19 Gabriel wrote:On December 10 2010 12:12 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 10 2010 12:11 Gabriel wrote:On December 10 2010 12:01 Oceanic wrote:On December 10 2010 11:57 Gabriel wrote:On December 10 2010 11:44 Kenpachi wrote:On December 10 2010 11:40 Gabriel wrote:On December 10 2010 11:34 Kenpachi wrote: [quote] what would posting history 4 hours into the game show you? A) You dont want to be active posting B) You want to "look" active C) You read the rules but you actually dont know mafia KP? That was rare. D) You dont want to lynch inactives because that doesnt work. E) You want enlightment. F) You vote for me out of literally nowhere. I mean: i post to flip Infundibulum and you come right after me. Care to explain at least? A) 4 hours does not judge that. what if i went on TL tomorrow for the first time in the past 3 days? B) Anyone who posts would want to look active.. Why would they post if they want to look inactive? C) Why are you assuming i read the rules? how do you know i didnt just assume the KP? D) It doesnt. shh E) ?? its enlightenment F) I dont agree with you voting for Infundibulum. A) Well you just wrote 7 one liners and have yet to post something relevant. B) But you are NOT. It is not about how you look. Come on that is not an argument, so you post one liners to look active? what is that? Sparta? C) Well you actually read the rules because you posted the pokemon/classicmafia relation. I wonder why you just couldnt look for the mafia KP, and insisted to look clueless asking for it. D) It doesnt? well you were pretty much inactive and so was Infundibulum. Maybe it does.E) You think too much. You have again 2 posts where you "think" about this "think" about that, when it is clear that those post refer to info available in the opening rules. This heavily smells like "im not too sure, i dont know" plot. F) So you agree that you are protecting infundibulum by voting me: More reason to flip him!. This logic is flawed since the game just started. So they didn't post right at the start and their first post was later then a lot of people's. So they were inactive til their first post? What about all the other people that haven't posted yet. When they make their first post are you going to say the same thing about them? After all, they were even later and therefore must be even more suspicious? Note that Kenpachi was actually posting since the start of the thread. People is inactive because we are just starting the game but nonsense has to be pinned down as soon as it comes out. I find hilariously weird that a guy posting one liners comes right after i vote Infundibulum (with a reason that may or may not be strong for other players) and simply votes Gabriel because he doesnt like my vote on Infundibulum. What do you think? Is that normal? He didnt even posted that. So is this your first game? You are not good at reading my friend ⇓. I thought you were a better mafia player on your old account. What happened to that? More criticism. Still no actual content. You know what, you're right. I'm just being mean.
On December 16 2010 14:58 Kavdragon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2010 08:03 d3_crescentia wrote: Hasn't it been 48 hours already since Day 1 post? Valid question. Meh.
On December 16 2010 14:58 Kavdragon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2010 17:21 d3_crescentia wrote: My read on last night's events:
Last nights deaths make sense from the context of ridding the town of leadership and/or bluesniping. Tree.hugger had already established himself as a strong town player despite his misread on Kenpachi. I imagine his blue-ness was icing on the cake for mafia. Similarly for jcarlsoniv, who contributed to discussion. RoL is a dangerous player to have for anyone around, and his relative activity makes sense for a blue read (for me, anyway).
Who took the 4th hit? Step up and claim. If you do NOT, then it leaves room for Gengar to sneak in.
I'm having a hard time coming up with more leads at this point in time. With mafia targeting active townies they're looking more to destroy whatever organization we're getting and feed us whatever lies they want us to believe. LSB and Hesmyrr seem likely to me, as does Gabriel. The Eiii/zeks is something I'm not entirely sure on, because I never bought into Gabriel's analysis of zeks too strongly. Yes! Finally you contribute something more than a one liner! Ok. So an actual analysis of what happened. I think that it’s mostly commenting on somewhat obvious points, but hey, I’ll give you some slack, it’s your first analysis. Also, not that this says a lot, but everyone on your suspect list that has died has flipped town. Just wanted to point that out. I guess I am just bad at finding scum.
On December 16 2010 14:58 Kavdragon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2010 17:22 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 13 2010 17:15 Brocket wrote: I was reading through the roles again. I get why there was only voltorb because electrode only gets to place 1 voltorb per night or switches 1 voltorb per night (not both).
But what seems odd to me is the rule that if mew is checked by alakazam, mew will appear as alakazam. What's the point of that if there is only 1 alakazam in the game?
I kind of get that gengar can appear as alakazam too. I guess that's a given that gengar will always choose to apper as alakazam.. to appear as mew? Honestly I would have just made it mew appears as mew, and gengar can appear as mew. There is probably more than 1 Alakazam in the game. Hmm. Something I was just thinking about. A fair thing to point out, not going to lie… Okay.
On December 16 2010 14:58 Kavdragon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2010 23:47 d3_crescentia wrote:The relative silence of the town bothers me, because it's just what mafia needs to win. The contribution of members named KtheZ, chaoser, deconduo, Insanious, ShoCkeyy, serApH, DCLXVI, Oceanic is virtually nil. We need to spend our time finding by rooting through the list of semi-lurking voters and figure out which ones we want to kill and/or check. Gabriel's insistence on a zeks vote today is distracting, but the votes on him thus far aren't very well-explained either. LSB and Shockeyy need to explain themselves on this. Actually, Shockeyy needs to explain himself, period. He only has ONE post thus far in the thread: + Show Spoiler +On December 12 2010 05:51 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2010 04:35 tree.hugger wrote:On December 11 2010 17:41 tree.hugger wrote:My hunch is that he's not going to be able to commit fully to anything, no matter how much we prod.
On December 12 2010 02:30 Kenpachi wrote: asdf. even when i post, i get pointed scum On December 12 2010 02:35 Kenpachi wrote: okay so yea my posts were bad but what can i say? i couldnt offer anything there and there. So i voted Gabriel for blatant bandwagon. Then he reacts and i defend. On December 12 2010 02:27 Kenpachi wrote: ##vote tree.hugger On December 12 2010 04:10 Kenpachi wrote:On December 12 2010 03:39 DCLXVI wrote: Thank you insanious and tree.hugger, I hope to see more people post like that. I don't understand why people are letting Kenpachi off the hook for bad posting. So what if he has a history of being less than stellar for the town. We cannot allow him to spam and distract the town because even if he isn't mafia, this helps the mafia. He is playing in a way that benefits the mafia, so even if he isn't (though I think he is), he is dangerous for the town. I really don't like the defense used by darth and meepak of "oh, well this is just how he normally plays". Townies don't intentionally hurt the town by doing what kenpachi is doing. I'll hopefully be back in a bit before the vote ends, but I feel safe in putting my vote on Kenpachi. Every vote on him is a vote to clean up the town. youre dumb. what if i happened to be DT or Medic? On December 12 2010 04:13 Kenpachi wrote:On December 12 2010 04:12 jcarlsoniv wrote:On December 12 2010 04:10 Kenpachi wrote:On December 12 2010 03:39 DCLXVI wrote: Thank you insanious and tree.hugger, I hope to see more people post like that. I don't understand why people are letting Kenpachi off the hook for bad posting. So what if he has a history of being less than stellar for the town. We cannot allow him to spam and distract the town because even if he isn't mafia, this helps the mafia. He is playing in a way that benefits the mafia, so even if he isn't (though I think he is), he is dangerous for the town. I really don't like the defense used by darth and meepak of "oh, well this is just how he normally plays". Townies don't intentionally hurt the town by doing what kenpachi is doing. I'll hopefully be back in a bit before the vote ends, but I feel safe in putting my vote on Kenpachi. Every vote on him is a vote to clean up the town. youre dumb. what if i happened to be DT or Medic? Are you claiming DT or medic? no i am not Word. I suppose we'll get treated to angry defending eventually, as he's in the lead right now, but hey, that might be too committed. Alright, I feel like kenpachi is getting way to agressive here. All his post have been aggressive and not helpful in anyway. + Show Spoiler +A) 4 hours does not judge that. what if i went on TL tomorrow for the first time in the past 3 days? B) Anyone who posts would want to look active.. Why would they post if they want to look inactive? C) Why are you assuming i read the rules? how do you know i didnt just assume the KP? D) It doesnt. shh E) ?? its enlightenment F) I dont agree with you voting for Infundibulum. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=174831¤tpage=14#270When he starts saying, that why do people assume that he reads the rules, makes me question him. Everyone reads the rules and we know this because that's part of the game. If he's saying he doesn't that just seems phishy to me imo. I also feel like, he posted the DT or Medic theory in order to try and get some people off of his case cause he can possibly be a TR member. I've seen this happen plenty of times where they pull out the "I might be a DT or Medic" and they end up not being it. My two cents, maybe I am wrong, but this is what I've been able to read off of. I'll be back in the evening, so don't go anywhere. Huh. Didn’t you say earlier that DT’s need to focus on the active people? Why wouldn’t we follow the same advice? Your plan seems backwards. Townies work off of analysis, so it’s pretty hard to get a good read on a lurker. They have nothing to analyze. So why tell the town to do the thing that they are worst at, and tell the DT’s to check the very people that the town can check the easiest? This is pretty scummy to me… The town needs to pressure inactives to speak by means of voting them. The DTs need to check whoever's doing the pressuring so that they can either clear them or lynch them. I am well-aware that this leaves the possibility of Gengar/GFs to slip into the role of "town leader," but this also leaves them more open to analysis.
On December 15 2010 08:59 d3_crescentia wrote: Shockeyy, I was going to call out Amber, but then I read his early game posts and found no problem with them. Whereas for you... I read one post. If you don't want to be of suspicion contribute more... and make it so that it isn't just you defending yourself or revenge voting against us. As for LSB, I don't think he has enough attention on him as he advocated things I didn't really agree with overall. Please don't take my posts out of context to do make us seem like bed-buddies.
I seriously SERIOUSLY disagree with double lynching tomorrow. Do we have good candidates yet? I might reconsider if we can confirm at least ONE.
If you’re going to read through all his posts, why not post an analysis? “If you don’t want to be suspicious, contribute more.” You said it yourself. Unless bashing is considered “contributing” then you’ve got a lot to answer for…[/QUOTE] I was working on it, but then I had to go to work.
On December 15 2010 09:06 d3_crescentia wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2010 08:46 Infundibulum wrote:On December 15 2010 08:32 BrownBear wrote: I am here, voting for myself again because I'm not superconvinced by any arguments so far. That said, having Hesmyrr as a (mostly) confirmed town voice is nice. That is seriously all you have to say? What is not convincing? Do you have any better alternatives?? Let's vote BrownBear instead. Y/N?
Totally unhelpful, adds nothing to the town. Just quotes someone and suggests a lynch. Even if it was a joke, you’re adding spam to the board, something that you’ve been doing a lot of. [/QUOTE] It was half-serious. Brownbear hasn't done much thus far.
On December 15 2010 12:25 d3_crescentia wrote: @Kavdragon, I would agree with your analysis of Amber, except that *I* started with a Shockeyy vote. At that point in time we had a total of exactly FIVE votes. You might consider it late in the day, but I'm not satisfied with a town vote on one candidate. Of course it troubles me that my actions could split the vote so late, but what was even more troubling is that we had an entire town willing to go with Zeks based entirely on Day 1 discussion, and very little to go on for Day 2. Someone has to take the lead here.
Secondly, Zeks might very well turn out green and if we have 100% of town voting them, there's absolutely nothing to analyze. As it stands it looks more likely that Gabriel is scum, not me, as he seemingly dodged another lynch today. Are my actions indicative that I did so to derail his wagon, considering only a few people followed? Maybe you should consider the other 9+ people voting on Zeks right now instead. Oh? I hadn’t noticed you voted before amber’s analysis. So you voted Shockeyy without even bothering to share your explination…The hell? How did the town miss this? And you accused others of jumping on a bandwagon unexplained…Really? [/QUOTE] Yes, I started the bandwagon of 3 people. I did explain - he's only posted ONCE thus far in the thread... and instantly he flares up and defends himself. That behavior is not particularly telling in and of itself, but his later actions need to be watched.
On December 15 2010 12:33 d3_crescentia wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2010 11:46 LSB wrote:ShoCkey Previous Game Analysis Caller's Red Army Mafyia: Role: Medic Posted 99% one liners. Got angry and warned for flaming. Mafia XVI: Role: Townie: Takes positions, especially on Xelin. Defends himself mostly civily. Mostly one-liners. + Show Spoiler +On January 21 2010 08:41 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2010 08:34 QuickStriker wrote:On January 21 2010 08:21 ShoCkeyy wrote:On January 21 2010 08:17 QuickStriker wrote:On January 21 2010 08:14 ShoCkeyy wrote: O_o we haven't started yet right? Uhh... yes we did??? And like no one is around to discuss and talk about the game in contrast to the other mafia game where it's way more active.... =/ Well I posted in the voting thread already since I couldn't find it till now ._. Hmm... well welcome!!! Glad to have at least one more active member of our little town.... it seems the mafias have put some poison gas or some sort of gas which is why everyone is silent or sleeping right now.... o.O Well QuickStriker, I will support you in this. I don't think you're the Mafia. Show nested quote +On January 20 2010 17:01 XeliN wrote:On January 20 2010 12:52 no_re wrote:Well hi everyone, my first mafia game, not entirely sure how it works so bare with me if Im doing it wrong, however relating to the "clues" posted everyday here is what I got from the above entry. My first thought when dissecting the post was this rather obvious quote: With a quick attack, the Sheriff Ace collapsed to the ground. A quick attack? Well with a player named QuickStriker in the game this looks like a kind of obvious clue. Also he was the first to respond to the first Sheriff Candidacy anouncement of Fulgrim, drawing attention to himself being "amused" by Fulgrim's "I'm not a mafia" comment. This intruiged me. I think that analysis overall was extremely good, from reading up on some earlier Mafia games it seems that the host often likes the come up with elaborate or entertaining deaths. This in itself makes the " With a quick attack " stand out far more in my eyes, and somewhat exonerates the other as possibly just being a whimsical choice by the host. In all honesty this by itself is enough to make me fairly suspicious and Quickstriker I am still more suspicious when I see some of what you have typed. In particular your reaction to no_re's non-serious accusation where you are essentially saying we must "hold off any action untill the DT comes forward and leads us through the valley of death and into the promised land" - I paraphrased, This however, as far as I can tell is an exceptionally bad strategy, the point of electing a mayor or sherrif is someone who seems active, discerning and importantly decisive, and your suggestion of sit and wait reeks to me on manipulation at an early stage. p.s. am i doin it rite? I think Xelin is the Mafia. He's already accusing you of being mafia even though the game hasn't started. Not only that, he's trying to submit himself as the Mayor, trying to find his way around from being lynched off. He knows that if he is able to be the mayor, then we're screwed. On January 21 2010 09:38 ShoCkeyy wrote: Hmm, I don't like this whole vote for me thing. Seems fishy, and especially the way he words it. He tries to win you over, so he can make sure he wins. I like his style no lie. But I won't be able to vote for him. Laaan, sorry, but my vote remains the same.
All you out of towners better stay in ya'll wreckin area. We don't like you hippie folks round hea. On January 22 2010 00:30 ShoCkeyy wrote: Ok, so I see some of you think I should be lynched. Well for one, I'm typing off my phone, so bare with me. Second, I voted for quikstriker, cause he seems like the right canidate for the mayor position out of everyone else here who is trying to be mayor. I rather choose some one who didn't impose themselves into trying to be mayor. Brings me to my reason as to why I would want xelin lynched.
Xelin saw that quikstriker was being the most helpful in this thread. He didn't like that, so he quickly picks quikstriker to be lynched. Then soon after post that he wants to be mayor, the reason as to why I don't want to vote for some one that says "I'm running for mayor." They seem more fake than anybody else here. Now I can tell you, I vote for xelin to be lynched 75% of the way.
The other 25% go to those who are quietly coming in that have watched us argue about who to lynch first. I feel like they watched us bicker to see and now that we have some what of an idea who we're going to lynch first. Now the mafia come in to back them up so we an lynch a townie. Which brings me to my other conclusion. Decafchicken I'm watching you. And one more that Shockeyy left out TL Mafia XVIII: Role: Mafia: Shockey was under heavy clue suspicion. He responded mostly civilly. However, most noticeably Shockey has essentially only one post that isn't either spam or defending himself (included below). Shockey shys away from taking any positions, besides defending himself. + Show Spoiler +On February 28 2010 07:30 ShoCkeyy wrote: I think it's pretty clear right now that the town should not be voting to kill Scamp. He is right in that at best all L has is some shaky clue analysis. In fact, most of L's clue analysis is directed at other players (Chez, johnny, me) and not at Scamp, go read his posts if you don't believe me.
Something I've noticed is that Scamp has actually taken the time to legitimately defend himself. I remember when we were going to lynch Mystlord, he hardly said a thing and most of what he said only incriminated him more. Right now the only thing incriminating Scamp is L. Also when QS was going to be lynched he came up with the stupid modkill plan that had no way working. Scamp hasn't tried to pull anything of that caliber. It seems to me he's arguing as a townsperson.
To the town, L has already convinced you to lynch our Mayor/medic. What's going to happen when Scamp turns up innocent? We'll be in a bigger mindfuck than we are right now. tree.hugger is clearly the safer vote right now. It's no doubt that if Scamp does not get lynched, L will continue to incriminate him. If Scamp is indeed mafia, he's going to slip up somewhere. Do you agree? Or any objections? For context, was Scamp on his team? Were they in a losing position? A winning position? This doesn't actually say shit until we know what the history was in that game.
Bashing of useful information to the town.[/QUOTE] I'll take that. I was in TLM XVI and while the defensiveness was the same, he did try to contribute more than he has now.
On December 16 2010 14:58 Kavdragon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2010 12:48 d3_crescentia wrote: Day should end now so I can go to sleep ^_^ Show nested quote +On December 15 2010 13:13 d3_crescentia wrote: but it's not gonna so I'm going to sleep >_< Spam. Don't care.
On December 16 2010 14:58 Kavdragon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2010 20:55 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 15 2010 18:25 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I just wanna say I'm delighted at how not spammy this game has been. I'm not. Means that there isn't adequate discussion or finger-pointing to get anywhere. I must say sir, you’ve contributed marvelously to the conversation you are so keen to point out. [/sarcasm] I have. I've been trying to point fingers all over the place so that people will come out of their shells and talk.
On December 16 2010 14:58 Kavdragon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2010 21:20 d3_crescentia wrote: Zeks voters where you at? Oh right, below:
zeks Gabriel DCLXVI GGQ kitaman27 Insanious DarthThienAn Infundibulum chaoser Oceanic Eiii KtheZ Node ghrur
Gabriel Brocket ShoCkeyy dinmsab deconduo Kavdragon
Shockeyy d3_crescentia Amber[LighT] LSB
Brownbear Brownbear
SerapH SerapH Pandain?
tube LSB
Cross-examine with yesterday's vote list: Hesmyrr 1 d3_crescentia
LSB 1 tube
Gabriel 1 dinmsab
Stormtemplar 1
zeks
ghrur 1 ghrur
Zeks 11 Gabriel KtheZ Infundibulum Node DarthThienAn
Meapak_Ziphh chaoser Hesmyrr? Kenpachi GGQ Oceanic
kenpachi 12
tree.hugger deconduo Insanious Brocket LSB
jcarlsoniv DCLXVI Kavdragon ShoCkeyy seRapH Amber[LighT] Eiii
kitaman27 1 kitaman27
BrownBear 1 BrownBear
Please note that RoL did not vote Day 1 and is now dead. Analysis inc
PS I think my tags are screwy. Hey look at me! It’s a big long list with NOTHING SAID. Sorry, I'm a proponent of post what you have and then elaborate. I usually take a long time to articulate posts, and generally when I do post the conversation has moved on vastly. I'm trying to rectify that, but as you can see I'm not very successful. Also, at the time, Coagulation hadn't posted an updated vote list, so I figured it might be useful to have around.
On December 15 2010 22:25 d3_crescentia wrote: Important things to note on this list:
Inactives/single votes There is absolutely no way we can continue voting in onesies because it makes analysis too hard. Of these on Day 1 we have: Brownbear, kitaman27, ghrur, dinmsab, and tube. Their actions on Day 2: Brownbear, tube (also note that in the above list tube should be voting for LSB, not the other way around), dinmsab with no change. Brownbear's inactivity is terrible and his presence isn't good for the town at all. As for the other two, dinmsab has voted for Gabriel twice and the same for tube -> LSB. If either of these two strongly believe in their votes then they should be in the thread actively promoting their viewpoint instead of sitting back passively; otherwise they might as well be scum.
The meat: Zeks You might note that the Zeks list is virtually identical between Day 1 and 2, with the exception of Hesmyrr/Pandain and kitaman27/Insanious/Eiii jumping ship from elsewhere. Insanious wasted a lot of time sticking his neck out in a tree-hugger analysis; Eiii is not necessarily scum given his last-minute vote on zeks Day 1; kitaman27 played fairly aggressive pro-town in the beginning but has fallen silent since. For now, we shouldn't care too much about these people.
The rest of the list (and a brief summary of posts):
DCLXVI - not much contribution here as far as targets; just a bunch of fluff GGQ - makes a few points wrt Zeks (I found them uncompelling, but maybe that's hindsight) chaoser - some early game discussion and defense of Kenpachi; has cited finals Oceanic - early defense of infundibulum/anti-Gabriel; has cited finals KtheZ - early agreement/defense of Gabriel and then vanished Node - points out LSB, agrees with Gabriel wrt Zeks, believes Hesmyrr's (now Pandain's) roleclaim ghrur - agreement with Node on LSB
I'm going to take the other three (Gabriel, DarthThienAn, Infundibulum) separately and get back to it tonight. Stay tuned for one more post...
Hmm. This one almost had me. It looks like you are contributing a little, because it’s not a one liner, but then I read it. You give off a list of people with tiny (and inaccurate, imo) mini analyses, that often make no sense at all. Way to go, you’ve just made it look like you’re adding to the town, without actually adding. A classic mafia move. [/QUOTE] I agree with you here. I felt at a loss after posting this, because I couldn't glean much from the vote lists.
On December 16 2010 14:58 Kavdragon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2010 22:49 d3_crescentia wrote: I don't pretend I'm good at analysis; in fact I'm probably trash terrible at it. Shortened because I have to go to work soon -_-
Here's what I noticed about the Zeks list in particular: - Much of the voting comes from Gabriel's early game analysis of Zeks. While Gabriel himself could be whatever, at least one of his supporters IS scum. Let's work on analyzing Gabriel and his early-game followers. - The discussion between DCLXVI and chaoser wrt to Kenpachi is particularly telling. Chaoser's defense is along the lines of "Kenpachi just posts that way" while DCLXVI's responses are "yeah but if he WERE mafia it'd be so easy for him to hide!" Something about this just doesn't strike me as particularly innocent on DCLXVI's part, as he seems to be posting an unnecessary defense of himself when Kenpachi died, and a lot of "we should do/have done X" statements recently. His vote for zeks isn't particularly well-justified; in fact it's a bit of a 180-degree turn as he suddenly shifted from "Kenpachi is scum" to "scum must have bandwagoned Kenpachi in the end to save zeks!" (Post on this sometime tonight as well)
Okay, off to work. Hope that's enough for you guys to chew on for tomorrow. Someone else come up with a night plan? In general, Gabriel might be good to check; DTA/Inf as well; DCLXVI cuz I think so. Medics protect who you can/find most compelling. This is the first try at an actual analysis, imo. But I’d tend to agree with you. It’s not that great. You paraphrase things with a major bias, and you end up with a weak argument that doesn’t help the town. Then you act like you just contributed a bunch of information for the town to “chew” over. LOL, at the end you tell medics to heal whoever they think is the most compelling, something that you criticized someone earlier for doing. Scummy inconsistencies… Yes. This is bad play. I'm sorry for that.
On December 16 2010 14:58 Kavdragon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2010 22:49 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 15 2010 22:38 flamewheel wrote: lol post quiet you Spam Yes, counter-spam. FW should keep his mouth to himself.
On December 16 2010 14:58 Kavdragon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2010 09:43 Amber[LighT] wrote:I believe this is what the quote in question was supposed to mean. I have made a number of post edits and it seemed to be getting spammy. On December 15 2010 07:50 ShoCkeyy wrote:Want to bandwagon against me? Well heres your chance to now redeem yourselves from what I'm about to post. Analysis for Day 1: Already agreeing with each other, but hey this isn't enough yet. + Show Spoiler +On December 10 2010 07:43 LSB wrote:I'll just use posts made before Inactives:Show nested quote +A big problem in every mafia game is inactivity. I don't want another drag_ being able to squeak by with barely any posts. We should immediately show it is not okay to be inactive.
Inactive players hurt the town as they waste lynches down the road as the town will need to try to separate the mafia from the inactives.
We should therefore lynch an inactive day one. This will force the assassins to discuss and not be able to turtle, increasing the chance they will slip up. PlanFirstly. DO NOT CLAIM DO NOT CLAIM Good now that we got that out of the way, some other ideas. One plan that would work is to use the blue roles to promote activity in the town. The Alakazam should check the inactive people and the lurkers, as it is incredibly difficult if not impossible to tell the difference between a bored townie and a lurking mafia. The Chansey's should protect active players, this way the mafia won't be able to take out the people who are contributing the most to town, so people won't be scared of trying to put forth their opinions. On December 10 2010 07:47 Amber[LighT] wrote: *Things like role checks.
I agree with LSB as well, no role claiming strategies. They almost never work. On December 10 2010 10:03 d3_crescentia wrote: Hesmyrr with the insubstantial "I agree" post. Let's watch out for him. d3, why don't you also watch out for your team mates? or are you trying to confuse the town as well. Here's some more agreeing by LSB, BUT CONTRADICTING. First d3 says meh to LSB plan, but then later on agrees to LSB plan. + Show Spoiler +On December 10 2010 10:15 d3_crescentia wrote: LSB's blue plan is pretty meh. It's not a good plan of attack for our Zams to check lurkers and inactives; they should be checking people who could be scum, including whoever is contributing the most. Keep in mind that all the mafia needs to do is to distract and confuse the town enough so that they make poor decisions. On December 10 2010 10:11 LSB wrote:Remember, the town's best weapon is analysis. By checking the inactives, we flush out the mafia to the limelight where they easily could be found. We want the mafia to attempt to distract the town, this way we can catch onto what they are doing. The town has to be vigilant to guard against these attempts + Show Spoiler + Discussing a plan is one of the best ways to generate activity and catch a scum btw
On December 10 2010 10:15 d3_crescentia wrote: I'd rather we just kill the inactives. I think checking them is a waste. Some more agreeing from d3 to LSB + Show Spoiler +On December 10 2010 10:32 d3_crescentia wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 10:31 LSB wrote:
Wait. What? Lynch is less important than a DT check? Seconded. That is kind of bullshit.
Something a townie once said, which is quite true. Why would you go into a game already telling what people to do? Why do you constantly force your opinion to be "the voice of reasoning" + Show Spoiler +On December 10 2010 08:53 jcarlsoniv wrote:
@LSB: While trying to coordinate blues seems good, I have to say, the more games I play, the more I hate to see people directing blues in thread. On Day 1, I think they need to do what they think needs to be done without influence from the thread. Any direction from the thread can also be seen by scum, and thus they will be clued in as well. No, obviously, I know that the blues don't need to listen to what is said in the thread, but they will be influenced by what is said. Let's hope we have good blues this time around. On December 10 2010 09:59 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 09:53 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 09:48 jcarlsoniv wrote:On December 10 2010 09:40 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 09:16 jcarlsoniv wrote: Also @LSB: I don't think we should say "we need to lynch inactives". While it may pressure scum to come out from hiding, I have seen it hit town more often than not. I think we need to deal with who is out and talking and giving us things to analyze rather than just blindly shooting into a room with a shotgun. How do you propose we deal with inactives/lurkers then? We can't just 'leave it for another day'. It's going to be a problem, and if we have no good leads day one, we should do this early, rather than late. On December 10 2010 08:53 jcarlsoniv wrote: @LSB: While trying to coordinate blues seems good, I have to say, the more games I play, the more I hate to see people directing blues in thread. On Day 1, I think they need to do what they think needs to be done without influence from the thread. Any direction from the thread can also be seen by scum, and thus they will be clued in as well. No, obviously, I know that the blues don't need to listen to what is said in the thread, but they will be influenced by what is said. Let's hope we have good blues this time around. So your saying that plans are bad? Interesting. Take my plan, what's bad about it? I agree that we should point to inactives if we have no other leads, but I'm saying to not just say "ok, let's find the inactives" right away. We have 48 hours to find candidates for lynch, no reason to dismiss the possibility of finding one right off the bat. I didn't say your plan was bad, seeing as you didn't really post a plan, nor did I say the word "plan" I was merely pointing out my own observations. What you had posted was good, it was vague, and a good general direction. Getting anymore specific than that at this point can be dangerous. On December 10 2010 09:40 Gabriel wrote:On December 10 2010 09:16 jcarlsoniv wrote: Also @LSB: I don't think we should say "we need to lynch inactives". While it may pressure scum to come out from hiding, I have seen it hit town more often than not. I think we need to deal with who is out and talking and giving us things to analyze rather than just blindly shooting into a room with a shotgun. I rather start the blind shoot into this small room with a shotgun. We are not getting analysis going too far away day one. Picking the right guy at the right time is picking a dead weight at first. How can you possibly say this? The game literally just started, and we have 48 hours to scumhunt. Again, I am going to say, there is no reason to dismiss the idea of finding a lynch candidate Day 1. You must understand. In order to make sure that people are active, we have to decide early that we going to punish people who are inactive. This way, people are going to be warned and hopefully people won't be inactive. Best case scenario we won't have to lynch an inactive person in the first place since everyone will contribute to the town. I notice you avoided discussion on my 'general direction.' Do you support it? Why? Do you now think we should give general directions to blues? I don't not support it (if that makes any sense). I am going under the assumption that our blues are at least halfway competent players, and will be able to think for themselves to use their roles effectively. This may be very naive though. I think general direction right now is fine for now, as long as we don't get too specific, especially Day 1. The last thing I want is for blues to be sniped right away. In this sense, I definitely agree with you that everyone should keep their roles secret for now. Tube Calling out LSB after LSB tried to "Defend" himself from Kav + Show Spoiler +On December 11 2010 14:39 tube wrote:Also, before you defend LSB you should take another look at the manners in which hes been posting Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 12:55 LSB wrote: Kav, you completely misinterpreted what I did in the game. Take a look at my posts with Jcarlsoniv. They are not spam, they serve a specific purpose. If you want me to explain, sure... but it's quiet obvious
Secondly, you are taking all of the posts out of context. Most of them are responses to other people. Look at his defense against Kav's [long] list of suspicions. He tries to answer for all of his posts by merely responding that they were all taken out of context. Nor does he even say what "specific purpose" any of those posts had. If those purposes were to answer questions, they had more of an effect of making him look like hes trying hard to come off as town. Though apparently we should see his purposes as "quiet obvious" to the point where he does not have to explain them. (or can't?) Day 2 Coming soon. You should probably also note in your smear campaign that the post you quoted from me wasnt a simple agree. I had another post that you neglected:On December 10 2010 07:46 Amber[LighT] wrote:On December 10 2010 07:42 Oceanic wrote: Doesn't it say in 1 of the guides posted that lynching an inactive day 1 is not something you should do? Lynching an inactive typically results in lynching an apathetic townie. Everyone should be posting frequently to discuss who should die for day 1. There are no PM's so everything should be out in the open. We should really worry less about how the blues should play. Thinks like role checks won't be overly reliable, and saving people cannot be discussed in the thread. It probably would be a good idea for the electrodes to think about where to place voltorbs and pick up on good scum tells. YES! Your first analysis! Good job! A little late to start though, SCUM. This is Amber's analysis.
On December 16 2010 14:58 Kavdragon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2010 10:39 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 16 2010 10:35 LSB wrote: If I die, check out Shocky, D3, and Brocket I'm pretty sure I'm not TR. The other two might be worth a look though. Spam. But true.
On December 16 2010 12:36 d3_crescentia wrote: I took the fourth hit. This confirms nothing. Mafia could have stacked hits, and then had you claim to take a hit. It’s an interesting claim though.
On December 16 2010 12:49 d3_crescentia wrote: No more FoS. At this rate the discussion isn't going to get anywhere if we just keep pointing FoS at each other and do NOTHING with our votes. My current candidates to consider for TR, in no particular order, are:
DCLXVI Infundibulum Kavdragon Brownbear
Wheren’t you just complaining to DrH that there wasn’t enough FoS to analyse?[/QUOTE] If you read all my posts together like that, sure. But an entire night cycle had passed without adequate discussion of the vote lists, and so more pressure is needed for people to speak up.
On December 16 2010 14:58 Kavdragon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2010 12:58 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 16 2010 12:49 DCLXVI wrote:On December 16 2010 10:19 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 16 2010 03:28 DCLXVI wrote:On December 15 2010 22:49 d3_crescentia wrote: I don't pretend I'm good at analysis; in fact I'm probably trash terrible at it. Shortened because I have to go to work soon -_-
Here's what I noticed about the Zeks list in particular: - Much of the voting comes from Gabriel's early game analysis of Zeks. While Gabriel himself could be whatever, at least one of his supporters IS scum. Let's work on analyzing Gabriel and his early-game followers. - The discussion between DCLXVI and chaoser wrt to Kenpachi is particularly telling. Chaoser's defense is along the lines of "Kenpachi just posts that way" while DCLXVI's responses are "yeah but if he WERE mafia it'd be so easy for him to hide!" Something about this just doesn't strike me as particularly innocent on DCLXVI's part, as he seems to be posting an unnecessary defense of himself when Kenpachi died, and a lot of "we should do/have done X" statements recently. His vote for zeks isn't particularly well-justified; in fact it's a bit of a 180-degree turn as he suddenly shifted from "Kenpachi is scum" to "scum must have bandwagoned Kenpachi in the end to save zeks!" (Post on this sometime tonight as well)
Okay, off to work. Hope that's enough for you guys to chew on for tomorrow. Someone else come up with a night plan? In general, Gabriel might be good to check; DTA/Inf as well; DCLXVI cuz I think so. Medics protect who you can/find most compelling. Might as well pull a shockeyy and start defending myself heavily. Next time I would like to see you quote my posts instead of summarizing them tinted heavily from your perspective. If I truly act scummy then there is no need for you to change what my posts say. I voted for kenpachi because he acted scummy and was useless for the town. I said that the defense "well he normally acts scummy" is a terrible defense and we should still lynch him because he acts scummy. Umm, I flipped and thought zeks was highly likely to be scum because I found out that I was wrong day 1 and kenpachi was green? You never have to revise your views of people when we get more information? I didn't think gabe was red (and still don't) and I really didn't like your last minute bandwagon on shockeyy with lsb and amber. That sort of play just screams scum to me. Okay, I get it. You're just a trash poster, scum or not. WTF? Did you read what I posted? I accuse you of changing the meaning of my posts and you call me a trash poster? How does this have any relevance to what I posted? On December 10 2010 15:09 DCLXVI wrote: Alright just read the thread. All I have to say is fuck you Team Rocket, Oak is the best character in the game. How did TR even manage to sneak up on him? Oak can tell from halfway around the world when you get on a bike, but he can't see a few clumsy TR members?
Seriously though, I am confused by gabriel. he makes some decent points about hesmyrr looking active but no content and infund's poor logic, but then he supports his points terribly. He attacks everyone who responds to him and then ragequits. Then the people he attacked + brocket vote him. Not sure if brocket is a newbie or is scum jumping on a free bandwagon. I need to read though the thread a few times more to get a clear view of what is going on, but I would like to hear some more posts on why gabriel/brocket/hesmyrr/infund are posting the way they are, not just people jumping on one side or the other. Early in the game - a call for more discussion. This isn't particularly scummy yet. another "trashy" post of course Sure, if you want to look at it that way. On December 16 2010 14:58 Kavdragon wrote:On December 12 2010 03:39 DCLXVI wrote: Thank you insanious and tree.hugger, I hope to see more people post like that. I don't understand why people are letting Kenpachi off the hook for bad posting. So what if he has a history of being less than stellar for the town. We cannot allow him to spam and distract the town because even if he isn't mafia, this helps the mafia. He is playing in a way that benefits the mafia, so even if he isn't (though I think he is), he is dangerous for the town. I really don't like the defense used by darth and meepak of "oh, well this is just how he normally plays". Townies don't intentionally hurt the town by doing what kenpachi is doing. I'll hopefully be back in a bit before the vote ends, but I feel safe in putting my vote on Kenpachi. Every vote on him is a vote to clean up the town. Restatement of what tree.hugger/Insanious said; no real contribution of his own. Do you just read the first line of what I post and then ignore the rest? Because that is the only way I can understand what you are talking about. On December 12 2010 15:21 DCLXVI wrote:On December 12 2010 14:44 chaoser wrote: Guys...for everyone who played Salem...that's just how he plays -_- he was playing the exact same way he did in Salem, if he was mafia there would have been slight differences -_-. No comment. I did my best, I have no regrets Seriously though, I do not regret voting Kenpachi. He was distracting the thread from focusing on possible scum and was posting no relevant information. This does not help the town at all, and we were lucky that he was not a blue. Just because he normally acts scummy does not give him the right to post scummy. It would have been so easy for him to hide behind your terrible defense of him if he was mafia, and we cannot allow that to happen. @Meepak - Why do you want to vote for zeks or gabriel? Do you suspect mafia bandwagoned Kenpachi to save a teammate? Which one of them do you suspect more and why? Please answer these sorts of questions instead of posting accusatory one liners all the time. I was ready to write up a nice long post about the different people who defended kenpachi, but now that he has flipped green I need to rethink my arguments. Sorry for the lack of activity recently, let me sleep and in the morning I'll start pointing some fingers. Post-death justification when one was NOT NEEDED. We all knew Kenpachi was a trash poster in the first place (or at least I did) and that his death would not be missed. No one accused you of anything, so why bother to defend yourself? Because of some inner need to appear innocent at all times, perhaps? NOT NEEDED but asked for, notice I quoted someone who questioned the lynch. I'm sorry for further explaining my rationale behind voting, perhaps next till I will just randomly vote people off a list like you do: On December 14 2010 23:47 d3_crescentia wrote: ##vote: Shockeyy On December 15 2010 05:23 DCLXVI wrote: With the number of swing votes that happened last time, I think that it is very likely that some scum jumped on the kenpachi bandwagon to save zeks. Not that Gabriel is posting any better, but I think that it is more likely that zeks is scum. @amber I don't think we analyzed the night actions enough. We barely covered the possibilities of what happened, and didn't bother to speculate which player was killed by mewtwo. That in itself could prove helpful to finding mewtwo, as well as finding scum connected to the other players who died. and I loled at one inactive accusing another. And for those of us that have some BRAINS we realized that Zeks fell into the same category of posting as Kenpachi - trash terrible, but nonetheless a waste of a lynch. Also, if you bothered to do any THINKING at all you'd realize that it's in the best interest of Mewtwo to play town-aligned in the early game. Why are you interested in finding Mewtwo unless you were RED and worried about yourself? Maybe if you had some FORESIGHT you could've prepared better for losing mew. Now it will be even harder for us to find mewtwo, especially since people like you try to stop any town discussion like this. Notice the town cannot win with mewtwo alive, so while it might be in M2's best interest to appear townie, the town still needs to kill him. Why are you so scared of us finding mewtwo? Is that your role? On December 15 2010 05:39 DCLXVI wrote:On December 15 2010 05:31 Brocket wrote: I guess if a detective (alakazam or mew) wants to check me out that could be productive. I'll show up as either a true townie or a gengar pretending to be one. Chansey's honestly should just use their prevention on whoever they want to keep in and if they decide that they themselves are the most valuable then so be it. Give gabe/zeks a scan too if they survive the day vote and future night attacks.
I could be a blue. Or a townie pretending to be a blue. Would it matter too much to the town if I was killed off by mafia? I sort of think of it as taking one for the team so the blues can get a night off.
I could be mafia. I think I'd like to be just a koffing. I wouldn't know who to sleep as a weezing. I talk a lot as you can see but I try to be productive without any hard evidence (then again who does?).
As far as mewtwo is concerned, he's just a wild card that confuses the night attacks and he's more likely to kill townies than mafia the first few nights until our numbers sufficiently dwindle. Sad but true.
tl,dr; Hey guys I'm trying to confuse the town and withhold information but that's ok because I'm town or maybe I'm not but thats fine maybe blues should do what I tell them but maybe not because that could be bad and maybe mewtwo is bad for us now but good later so lets not worry aboutanything. Nice, finally some condescension. Too bad it isn't an actual push for a lynch. If you're not scum you're still being too fucking lazy about this, and if you are - well, that's the perfect level of sneerage to detract from your own posting. Maybe if you had some BRAINS you could've noticed the sarcasm in the post, pointing to the uselessness of brocket's post. I guess things like this are too subtle for players of your caliber. On December 15 2010 15:54 DCLXVI wrote:@LSB While I like your idea of forming up a list of all the inactive/scummy players and then using dt's (or mad H's) on them, I don't think that it is a viable strategy now. A list like that would have to include around 85% of the players. In fact I'll whip one up right now: + Show Spoiler +1. deconduo 2. BrownBear 3. Eiii 4. GGQ 5. LSB 6. DarthThienAn 7. RebirthOfLeGenD (Pikachu, Night 1 Kill) 8. Amber[LighT] 9. dinmsab 10. jcarlsoniv (Pikachu, Night 1 Kill) 11. DCLXVI 12. Ghrur 13. Kenpachi (Pikachu, Day 1 Lynch) 14. Node 15. KtheZ 16. tube 17. chaoser 18. Oceanic 19. Gabriel 20. Insanious 21. Meapak_Ziphh (Pikachu, Night 1 Kill) 22. Shockeyy 23. seRapH 24. Kavdragon 25. tree.hugger (Electrode, Night 1 Kill 26. Infundibulum 27. Pandain 28. Brocket 29. kitaman27 30. d3_crescentia 31. zeks Right now I am trying to get more active, but as far as I see there are about 5 seriously active players. That is why we cannot have the medics self protect like you asked tonight. Night one mafia+M2 took out 3 of the most active players, and I would bet that they will continue that trend tonight. We desperately need every last active player, so unless the medics themselves are high priority targets for the mafia, they should not self protect. I am not trying to open up the medics to be hit, but lets be reasonable. What motive does the mafia have to try to hit random lurking blues over the few active players? Not to mention if they hit mew, they are pretty much screwed. Medics please decide who you want to live and lead our scum hunting tomorrow, Dts follow your gut, same with electrodes. Vets just be tough It would be nice to have some dt's give us information in 2 days (three night checks) so that we know about 1/2 of the alignments with some room for error with millers / GF / fake claims. We could hope for ~2 scum revealed this way, with maybe one fake claimed scum. (all numbers estimated in my head with my assumptions, check yourself) However I think we need to see how desperate our plight is come that time, maybe it will not be necessary then. On the other hand, Double lynching is becoming increasingly necessary. With our multiple bandwagons forming and splitting each vote, it looks like the mafia is having an easy time pulling votes off their team and sending townies to the noose. If we lose to many more townies tonight we won't be able to control the lynch very well in the coming days. We need to take advantage the DL to try and catch back up against the mafia's kills. That is something we seriously need to consider and vote on tomorrow depending on the night kills and the level of town activity come tomorrow morning. I want to see the night kills before I comment on potential scummy players tomorrow. Good night, and make sure you are well prepared for any multiples of trouble. Nice general advice. Doesn't really say much except "Maybe on Day 5 DTs should reveal all they know," not accounting for the fact that the Mafia will target those that the DTs check. Maybe the DTs will check inactive players, but what's to stop the mafia from counterclaiming with their own fake DT and sowing more chaos? There needs to be a better plan than just "in 3 days let's reveal." Of course, I realize that you yourself don't have much confidence in this plan of yours, seeing as how it's just plain terrible for town. Or you might just be TR putting thoughts in our mind. So step up and defend yourself, or I'll be putting my vote on you first thing come Day. Yeah I guess I don't say much besides criticizing LSB's plan and commenting on the double lynch benefits and outline a decent plan for the medics to follow (which they didn't, and now we lost more active townies ). I guess I should post more like you: On December 16 2010 10:39 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 16 2010 10:35 LSB wrote: If I die, check out Shocky, D3, and Brocket I'm pretty sure I'm not TR. The other two might be worth a look though. And you call my posts trashy. All of my posts at least have a reason behind them, as I, unlike you, don't feel the need to spam to seem active and townie. So in an effort to be a better townie should I go back and summarize your posts however I like, call you an idiot, and then try to start a bandwagon on you? Because that seems like one of the scummiest plans I can think of, but you manage to pull it off and people think you are one of the towniest of us all. Congratulations on returning fire; don't you feel GREAT about yourself now that you've contributed a post that amounts to a "NO U"? I'm sorry, "medics protect who you think you should" isn't telling them anything they don't know already. Post some real content for fuck's sake, because criticism and disagreement means jack shit unless you provide alternatives. If you haven't noticed, I'm trying to get town back on the right track, whereas all you do is whine about how I've mischaracterized you instead of contributing. Go analyze some other people, unless you're too scared to out your scum buddies. Wow. You’ve summed up my comments to you pretty well. People, read it for yourselfs. Vote Scum. Vote D3. Does anyone else see this?(Sorry if I was a bit brief on the last few posts. I’m on a bit of a time crunch.) I hadn't noticed that latter part about the medics, so I guess I'm just terribad. I think it's fairly obvious, but then again my hypocrisy and blindness to my own poor play has doomed me. At any rate, while I might disagree with the analysis it's good that we're getting more.
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On December 17 2010 02:56 Kavdragon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2010 02:42 LSB wrote: Consider this question. What is scummy? What is bad play? In my opinion, Scummy play is play that benefits the Mafia, but not the town. Bad play is play that benefits the Mafia, AND the town. Good play is play that benefits the town, and not mafia. This asks the next question. What benefits the mafia, and Town? Town benefits from good analysis and discussion of suspects, with some emphasis on civility. Mafia benefits from everything that gets in the way of good discussion and analysis. (I.e, Spam, Bashing, etc...) I'd like to hear other's opinions though. Especially yours. I disagree with your definition of mafia play.
Scummy play is play that COULD benefit the town and does NOT hurt the mafia. I think civility has little to do with this. Beneficial for town is that it leads to mafia. Bad for town is that play that does not. The key point here is that for the most part the mafia have to play a waiting game. Sowing confusion, spammy playing, aggressive finger-pointing are helpful to mafia but aren't TELLS.
I'll give an example: TLMafia XXII, where I *was* mafia and posted with as much civility as possible. It nearly fooled everyone except for Ace. A stronger example from the same game was Incognito, who should be the epitome of strong-town-appearing mafia. The mafia have all the more reason to play like town - mild mannered with civil discussion, etc. so long as none of their own are targeted. Note that every post that the mafia made ambiguously benefits the town, i.e. calmly pointing out players that aren't doing anything or have fallacies in their logic... against all of whom were town. When scum were identified, the rest of the mafia cut their losses.
The problem here is that the town is bad at finding scum, unless pressure causes them to say something suspicious. Ace identified me off the bat in XXII after a stupid slip-up. (Then again, he's Ace, so...)
I don't think calm discussion will get you anywhere without at least some aggression. Rapid aggressive finger-pointing won't be much better, so I'll try to back up my statements with a little more effort.
As it stands, though, it looks like this game will likely be more like TLMXVI, where the town isn't participating actively enough to find scum, and that people that are trying to find scum are only doing so reactively, like DCLXVI. The fact that nothing stands out so far is because people aren't pushing hard enough.
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One more thing, Kavdragon - what are your thoughts on DCLXVI?
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On December 17 2010 11:10 kitaman27 wrote: I'm not going to lie, this is starting to get real hard to follow with these huge walls of text. For example, quoting 4 separate blocks of text and replying "Meh." "Okay." "Don't care." and "But true." really takes away from your argument. Highlighting your main ideas, rather than responding to every single comment is definitely appreciated to keep the spam count low.
Also, I would like to remind everyone that we really should push for a double lynch today. I haven't seen a valid argument why this isn't a good idea.
Kavdragon, deconduo, ShoCkeyy all voted without requesting a double lynch and should be pressured to do so.
If we don't have two good lynch targets, then it's a waste and shortens the town day count by 1, IF we continue to miss lynches. And with our track record so far, that's pretty likely. The point of discussion here should be if we have two good targets, i.e. are any of myself/DCLXVI/Shockeyy/Gabriel worth being lynched? There also is the case of if we can find Mewtwo, whom if we lynch buys us another day.
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Here are my expectations for today/tomorrow: 1) The mafia will try to get me lynched today, because it would limit the amount of additional information that goes into the game. At the very least they know I took their hit, and by killing me they would put the town at a loss for information with few alternatives after they remove Kavdragon, DCLXVI and whoever else has been vocal in the thread thus far that aren't on their team. For that I would watch my vote list carefully. I expect this to be the strongest possibility. 2) The mafia will push for my lynch later after swinging the vote elsewhere to make it seem like I evaded death. Once Kavdragon etc. have died they'll pull their posts and cite their arguments. They only need a few people to do this and split the vote amongst the rest. A few of them will step up to defend me for more credibility, but likely not. 3) Other possibility: I am mafia, and I am trying my best to save my ass for pointing fingers everywhere and creating confusion. I shouldn't expect anyone else to come in and save my credibility as mafia have been doing well so far just by coasting amongst the lurkers. If there is enough suspicion cast on me then the rest of mafia will vote me, but for the most part they won't really acknowledge my presence.
I acknowledge that 3) is possible, but it's not likely. I think mafia have been coasting for far too long this game and they're perfectly happy with getting me killed for town to continue to waste lynches. Instead we need to put pressure on people that aren't as active to do more. At the very best we find scum; at the very worst we have another active townie who is helping out with efforts.
For those of you that are confused as to what to do, here's something: 1. deconduo 2. BrownBear 3. Eiii 4. GGQ 5. LSB 9. dinmsab 11. DCLXVI 12. Ghrur 14. Node 15. KtheZ 16. tube 17. chaoser 18. Oceanic 19. Gabriel 20. Insanious 22. Shockeyy 23. seRapH 24. Kavdragon 26. Infundibulum 27. Pandain 28. Brocket 29. kitaman27 30. d3_crescentia
Take this list and analyze the person that is immediately below you. Since I am at the bottom of the list I'll wrap things around and do deconduo. Use DECISIVE language in your posts; either say YES this person is scum and here's why or NO this person is not. Then the person who is TWO above you should analyze your analysis. This should get things rolling.
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On December 17 2010 12:00 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2010 11:21 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 17 2010 11:10 kitaman27 wrote: I'm not going to lie, this is starting to get real hard to follow with these huge walls of text. For example, quoting 4 separate blocks of text and replying "Meh." "Okay." "Don't care." and "But true." really takes away from your argument. Highlighting your main ideas, rather than responding to every single comment is definitely appreciated to keep the spam count low.
Also, I would like to remind everyone that we really should push for a double lynch today. I haven't seen a valid argument why this isn't a good idea.
Kavdragon, deconduo, ShoCkeyy all voted without requesting a double lynch and should be pressured to do so.
If we don't have two good lynch targets, then it's a waste and shortens the town day count by 1, IF we continue to miss lynches. And with our track record so far, that's pretty likely. The point of discussion here should be if we have two good targets, i.e. are any of myself/DCLXVI/Shockeyy/Gabriel worth being lynched? There also is the case of if we can find Mewtwo, whom if we lynch buys us another day. Town KP is Always better than mafia KP. A double lynch has twice the likelyhood of netting a mafia. In addition it basically denies the mafia a night. That's four lives saved. I think you and Shockeyy are good lynch targets tomorrow if neither of you are lynched today. Especially if you're going against a double lynch. I agree that Town KP > Mafia KP. It only has twice the likelihood if we pick at random. I don't have any confidence in this town's ability to find scum, given our overall track record and participation thus far. I don't understand what you mean by "it basically denies the mafia a night."
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On December 17 2010 12:03 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2010 12:00 d3_crescentia wrote: Take this list and analyze the person that is immediately below you. Since I am at the bottom of the list I'll wrap things around and do deconduo. Use DECISIVE language in your posts; either say YES this person is scum and here's why or NO this person is not. Then the person who is TWO above you should analyze your analysis. This should get things rolling. This is an incredible waste of time. What we need to do is focus on one or two people. This is a great way for mafia to lurk, post an 'analysis', say the person is town, and then move away. Although interesting, we need to work on having a well thought out lynch. Unlike yesterday. What everyone needs to do is give their opinion of Shockeyy. D3, I noticed that you were willing to lynch Shockeyy. Why not now? Fine, stash it for later. I'm trying to throw out suggestions for people to find ways to participate.
I am interested in voting Shockeyy. I need a little more time to sort out my thoughts on DCLXVI, though, considering that I didn't read his reply as carefully as I should have and only briefly glanced at his analysis on Insanious.
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On December 17 2010 12:12 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2010 12:07 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 17 2010 12:00 LSB wrote:On December 17 2010 11:21 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 17 2010 11:10 kitaman27 wrote: I'm not going to lie, this is starting to get real hard to follow with these huge walls of text. For example, quoting 4 separate blocks of text and replying "Meh." "Okay." "Don't care." and "But true." really takes away from your argument. Highlighting your main ideas, rather than responding to every single comment is definitely appreciated to keep the spam count low.
Also, I would like to remind everyone that we really should push for a double lynch today. I haven't seen a valid argument why this isn't a good idea.
Kavdragon, deconduo, ShoCkeyy all voted without requesting a double lynch and should be pressured to do so.
If we don't have two good lynch targets, then it's a waste and shortens the town day count by 1, IF we continue to miss lynches. And with our track record so far, that's pretty likely. The point of discussion here should be if we have two good targets, i.e. are any of myself/DCLXVI/Shockeyy/Gabriel worth being lynched? There also is the case of if we can find Mewtwo, whom if we lynch buys us another day. Town KP is Always better than mafia KP. A double lynch has twice the likelyhood of netting a mafia. In addition it basically denies the mafia a night. That's four lives saved. I think you and Shockeyy are good lynch targets tomorrow if neither of you are lynched today. Especially if you're going against a double lynch. I agree that Town KP > Mafia KP. It only has twice the likelihood if we pick at random. I don't have any confidence in this town's ability to find scum, given our overall track record and participation thus far. I don't understand what you mean by "it basically denies the mafia a night." If you don't have confidence in the ability to find scum, then double lynch is the way to go. By relying on consecutive single lynches, it basically forces town to guess correctly while their numbers get whittled away during the night. With the double lynch, it doubles our kp allowing us to take out two suspicious targets. Identifying reds can snowball, so its important we take them out when we have the opportunity to. I didn't think of it that way. I still don't like the idea as I've played in towns that have wasted their double-lynches consecutively and I'd rather not see a repeat of that. The other thing is, if everyone participates more actively than they have it becomes easier in the endgame to double-lynch. Let me reconsider.
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On December 17 2010 12:17 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2010 12:07 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 17 2010 12:00 LSB wrote:On December 17 2010 11:21 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 17 2010 11:10 kitaman27 wrote: I'm not going to lie, this is starting to get real hard to follow with these huge walls of text. For example, quoting 4 separate blocks of text and replying "Meh." "Okay." "Don't care." and "But true." really takes away from your argument. Highlighting your main ideas, rather than responding to every single comment is definitely appreciated to keep the spam count low.
Also, I would like to remind everyone that we really should push for a double lynch today. I haven't seen a valid argument why this isn't a good idea.
Kavdragon, deconduo, ShoCkeyy all voted without requesting a double lynch and should be pressured to do so.
If we don't have two good lynch targets, then it's a waste and shortens the town day count by 1, IF we continue to miss lynches. And with our track record so far, that's pretty likely. The point of discussion here should be if we have two good targets, i.e. are any of myself/DCLXVI/Shockeyy/Gabriel worth being lynched? There also is the case of if we can find Mewtwo, whom if we lynch buys us another day. Town KP is Always better than mafia KP. A double lynch has twice the likelyhood of netting a mafia. In addition it basically denies the mafia a night. That's four lives saved. I think you and Shockeyy are good lynch targets tomorrow if neither of you are lynched today. Especially if you're going against a double lynch. I agree that Town KP > Mafia KP. It only has twice the likelihood if we pick at random. I don't have any confidence in this town's ability to find scum, given our overall track record and participation thus far. I don't understand what you mean by "it basically denies the mafia a night." Right now, for every lynch, we have to sacrifice four townies at night. Would you rather trust the mafia to kill the own, or the town to randomly guess correctly? I trust mafia to kill people that are trying to be active in helping the town. Would you have the town go to RNG now? If everyone is more active and more aggressive in their play, then there would be more information available for analysis and (I think) a better chance at catching scum. Maybe picking 2-3 people for everyone to analyze is better; maybe not. Maybe I'm just retardedly wrong.
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On December 17 2010 12:28 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2010 12:22 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 17 2010 12:17 LSB wrote:On December 17 2010 12:07 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 17 2010 12:00 LSB wrote:On December 17 2010 11:21 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 17 2010 11:10 kitaman27 wrote: I'm not going to lie, this is starting to get real hard to follow with these huge walls of text. For example, quoting 4 separate blocks of text and replying "Meh." "Okay." "Don't care." and "But true." really takes away from your argument. Highlighting your main ideas, rather than responding to every single comment is definitely appreciated to keep the spam count low.
Also, I would like to remind everyone that we really should push for a double lynch today. I haven't seen a valid argument why this isn't a good idea.
Kavdragon, deconduo, ShoCkeyy all voted without requesting a double lynch and should be pressured to do so.
If we don't have two good lynch targets, then it's a waste and shortens the town day count by 1, IF we continue to miss lynches. And with our track record so far, that's pretty likely. The point of discussion here should be if we have two good targets, i.e. are any of myself/DCLXVI/Shockeyy/Gabriel worth being lynched? There also is the case of if we can find Mewtwo, whom if we lynch buys us another day. Town KP is Always better than mafia KP. A double lynch has twice the likelyhood of netting a mafia. In addition it basically denies the mafia a night. That's four lives saved. I think you and Shockeyy are good lynch targets tomorrow if neither of you are lynched today. Especially if you're going against a double lynch. I agree that Town KP > Mafia KP. It only has twice the likelihood if we pick at random. I don't have any confidence in this town's ability to find scum, given our overall track record and participation thus far. I don't understand what you mean by "it basically denies the mafia a night." Right now, for every lynch, we have to sacrifice four townies at night. Would you rather trust the mafia to kill the own, or the town to randomly guess correctly? I trust mafia to kill people that are trying to be active in helping the town. Would you have the town go to RNG now? If everyone is more active and more aggressive in their play, then there would be more information available for analysis and (I think) a better chance at catching scum. Maybe picking 2-3 people for everyone to analyze is better; maybe not. Maybe I'm just retardedly wrong. So killing people who actively try to help out the town is a good thing and we should have more of it? D3 is SKRemember. There is NO REASON to lynch D3. The mafia will take care of it by themselves If the Mafia Uses a roleblock and a kill on the serial killer. Will the serial killer die? WTF? How the hell did you get to that conclusion? I said that I expect mafia to target people that are actively trying to help out the town. If more people are active then it makes it harder for them to pick targets, and we have more collective analysis to go by.
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On December 17 2010 12:50 LSB wrote: Just pick up a piece of paper and do the math.
1 lynch + 4 kp + 1 lynch + 4 kp = 2 lynches +8 kp 2 lynches + 4 kp = 2 lynches + 4 kp.
You're reasoning is that during night the mafia will shoot for the active players... o.o
Just claim SK and be done with it. That's what mafia has been doing thus far, targeting active players...?
That's only during one day/night cycle, though.
1 lynch + 4kp + 1 lynch + 4kp = 2 lynches + 8kp. 2 lynches + 4 kp + 1 lynch + 4kp = 3 lynches + 8kp.
You're hedging a lot of your bets on hitting those lynches, and in my experience a town this apathetic won't be able to hit any of them.
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Oh. Shoot. Are we really at 15/6/1? I had 16/6/1 for my numbers, which should have given us another day. Yeah in which case voting double is probably a good idea. SORRY. =/
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On December 17 2010 16:06 DCLXVI wrote:Not to just to jump in and FOS someone randomly, but what do people think of deconduo? After looking through his last few posts (edit he only posted 10 times in the thread :/) I see that he posts even worse than I did in the first few days. Im too lazy to quote all his posts but take a look yourself: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/profile.php?user=deconduowhat his posts say according to me 1 /in 2 he agree with what insanious wrote for the most part 3 question 4 lurkers are bad 5 gabe is too confrontational to be mafia (contradicts post #2 with the pandain vs docH bit) 6 lol post 7 Got no time, suspicious of one bandwagon, so he will join the other 8 responds to kavdragon about post 7, restates post 7 9 Time to vote Gabe because he is scummy 10 jumps into the thread, underlines analytical post by insanious that FoS DCLXVI I don't know how he has managed to make it this far through the game without being called out. A few people I saw briefly had (kav, LSB i think) but this is ridiculous. I may have posted bad early in the game, but if this isn't flat out the scummiest person right now then lynch me instead. Shockeyy has been making himself out to be scum for a while, d3 may be mewtwo, I may suck at contributing, but this? If you can convince me that d3 is mewtwo and why we should kill mewtwo now I'll stay voting d3, but people need to look at deconduo. At least have him as one of the two targets for tomorrow if you all think that it is too late to lynch him now. I don't want to fracture the towns voting power by introducing another target, but I am sure deconduo is scumsorry for being so argumentative lately, I just like to argue too much I guess. More content does not mean arguing I see. and yeah math says we need double lynch tomorrow and a hit tonight, voting Wait, so it's a crime for me to summarize posts and comment on them but not for you? I hope you see the hypocrisy here...
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You know, I wasn't going to do this originally, but events have taken a shift to the worse at this point for me, especially since I likely won't be back until the Night post. Firstly and foremostly:
I am Mewtwo.
I killed Meapak on Night 1 and DTA on Night 2. Meapak because I could, DTA because I had an inkling he was hiding something. As it turns out, sadly, he was an Alakazam. For that matter, I am thinking LSB is our second Alakazam (if he isn't mafia), seeing as he identified me so quickly as Mewtwo. I still remain suspicious of Infundibulum, who was one to point out the possibility. Likely he checked me, found out I was a Pikachu and then read an analysis and came to that conclusion. If he isn't dead by tomorrow, then I would vote him for sure.
I have been aggressively trying to push the town to hunt and find scum as it currently benefits me to kill them. Quite frankly, it won't benefit me to kill the town until after Day 5-6 or so. As it stands, though, I am already pressed for time and it looks that a number of you are already pushing to kill me.
I've laid out the three situations which you face, whether you choose to kill me or not today, and the ramifications of doing so. Let's suppose the worst - that you DO end up killing me. Here's what you can expect in the future:
I've labeled this situation 'A'. We'll start at the top, with subsituation A.1, where the town manages to hit its double lynch tomorrow. In fact, this is the ideal situation, since the score is left at 12/4 in favor of town, which means another 3 days of survival. In A.2, town misses one of its lynches, and is forced to use another double the day afterwards. Again, if you hit both you get off scot-free, for only 2 days this time. If you miss, though... well, you can't afford to miss again. With a 100% lynch rate after Day 5, you'll end up at 4T/3M... and you'll NEED to continue that trend of 100% accuracy. Anything else is really a LOSS for the town.
In situation 'B', I am spared by your infinite kindness. In fact, I've assumed the best - you ARE able to find mafia in the rest of the short day we have, and lynch them. Again, in situation 1, should you hit your double lynch tomorrow, you are quite safe for another 2 days. I think this is actually pretty ideal for town, as you can then proceed to lynch me at your leisure. In fact, I might continue to help you, as it would benefit me to figure out what roles everyone is. In the other situations, the town would benefit more from lynching at least 1 Mafia and possibly myself. Please note that lynching 2 Mafia will give you the freedom to lynch me whenever you like, lynching 1 Mafia would require that you lynch me soon, and lynching myself and a townie (or two townies) yields a LOSS.
In situation 'C', all of you bandwagon onto some innocent townie... but not all hope is lost, as your friend d3_crescentia remains alive. Killing 2 mafia tomorrow will yield the best result for you, as is expected. If I make a mistake and kill a townie the subsequent night, you can get survive with finding only 1 mafia member and lynching me for the other one. If I don't miss, though, you'll be at and 8/3; good odds for the number of misses you've made thus far. However, if the town misses a lynch on Day 4, then you will most definitely need me for any hopes of winning. Lynching 1 Mafia 1 Townie will give you either situation 3 or 4. In situation 3, my NK has missed and hit a town member, but together we still have a chance to win. You will definitely need to vote double lynch and hit two scum, and you will definitely need MY vote as well. In situation 4, the town fares a little better, as they don't depend on the third party vote... but they will still need to hit both lynches. As for situations 5 and 6, they are the result of if you choose to lynch me, or if (heaven forbid) you fail to lynch either me or a mafia member at all.
Thus, the question remains - do you lynch me today or tomorrow? Do we have better candidates thus far? I must admit, situation A looks pretty ideal if you hit your lynches tomorrow.
Let me ask you this? Who's going to organize the town? Who's going to push people to vote? Who's going to offer adequate analysis? Kavdragon? LSB? Not when they're DEAD tomorrow, since mafia seem to be targeting the most active players. They might even stack a few hits on one of them... or they might outright ignore you and go for numbers, especially if town leaderships' analyses are dead wrong. They might even be kind to you and give you one of theirs that you ARE right on, but that won't make your road any easier since you virtually HAVE to hit 100% of your lynches.
But suppose you're like me, and you don't have the greatest confidence that you can manage to hit all of the lynches tomorrow, let alone 100%. If you'll point me to a target, I can confirm their allegiance quickly and efficiently. This is two-fold: one, you can at least semi-confirm me to be either M2 or Mafia, as Mafia might just target the same person as I do tonight, which means MORE live townies. You might be able to get away with surviving another day.
Let's strike a bargain - you DON'T lynch me, and I continue to hunt scum for you tonight. If I miss, it won't change that you absolutely HAVE to lynch 2 mafia tomorrow, or that if you miss you'll have to double lynch again. The key difference is that you'll have someone gunning for them on your side. Of course, the better result would be if YOU didn't miss, and found an actual mafia today, right now.
Vote deconduo. Vote brocket. Vote anyone, because at this point no matter who you vote for you're likely screwed... though if you DON'T vote me, you might be a little less screwed.
Now I've got to get to work and go pick up my sister. If I'm still alive 16+ hours from now then you can be sure I'll be working on your side. If not, I hope TR wins, because they certainly deserve to at this point.
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One more thing, the first figure should be labeled A.
That... kind of ruins the whole evil tone I was going for, but it doesn't make it any less true.
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And one more thing... Situation A.4 is virtually identical to A.3 in that you need a 100% lynch rate until Day 7 if you screw up Day 4's lynch utterly.
OKAY NOW TO WORK
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OKAY I'M BACK AT LAST
CATCHING UP
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I don't have any suspects and am going to rest a bit more from driving all day today/yesterday. I'm going to kill brocket tonight, as I think that's the only course of action where it's possible for me to win. Well, not the only one, but it reveals the most info.
I think it's time for a mass roleclaim once the day post is up.
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On December 19 2010 06:21 Kavdragon wrote: Ok, so here are my thoughts on current events:
1) Regarding my vote on D3. I didn't see that he had claimed M2 till it was too late. If I had, I would have voted ShoCkeyy. (Yeah yeah, I know, Easy to say that now that he's red, but w/e. What's done is done.)
2) Regarding D3: I would love to get M2's help. This is exactly what the town needs now. However, Your analysis of the possibilities is flawed, And I'm wondering if it was purposeful. The pictures show mafia KP at 2, when there are 5 left. Mafia KP is rounded up. They have three kills tonight. This changes the outcome of several branches that would otherwise have been town victories.
3) I agree with LSB on hitting Brocket. I havn't and won't have enough time to build my own argument, but I agree with his analysis.
Again, sorry for not being that active when it's needed, I'll contribute as often as i can. Could you point out the exact situation? They are labeled that way for a reason.
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There's a very very small possibility to win without double lynch tomorrow, but it depends on how successful things are today.
I am very concerned that Infundibulum is not dead. I'm starting to believe Shockeyy was a sacrifice by the mafia to give them reason to eliminate me. If we hit any number of mafia today I'm planning on killing him tonight.
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You guys make it sound like I'm some sort of bad puppy.
The more I think about it the more I'm convinced Shockeyy was a sacrifice made by the mafia. Shockeyy himself gave us no leads anywhere, and if I recall no one really stepped up to defend him. Without the modkills yesterday we could've been at 12/5/1, which means you could have afforded to lynch me and some other dude that the mafia would have drawn you to, and then hopefully take the game at 8/5. But then there were the modkills, so things have changed.
I think that Shockeyy's vote list has to contain a few mafia, though it's quite possible they just split their vote between our three candidates yesterday. Note that Oceanic and dinmsab both had single votes for themselves/Gabriel respectively. Quite frankly I'm more than willing to buy that they're town - or at least, put our focus elsewhere for the time being. Did Shockeyy's death give anyone any more credibility? LSB's voted Shockeyy on Day 2, so I am thinking that should clear him as town-ish. It leaves Gabriel, deconduo, KtheZ, GGQ and Infundibulum as targets for analysis.
This would make Node most likely to be mafia, should the mafia have actually split their votes. The Node/DCLXVI conversation points to Node being more likely mafia as well. Unfortunately as mentioned I'm not sure that mafia need to risk another player at this point in time. If he dies blue today we may need to reconsider DCLXVI for tonight.
We have DCLXVI, Kavdragon, Eiii, Brownbear and Shockeyy on me yesterday. Shockeyy was scum as we found out; Kavdragon is likely town and Eiii is questionable. DCLXVI's fate is tied with Node's in my view.
As for Brownbear, if he was town and so vehemently believed that an alliance would be unfruitful, he should have been pushing for my lynch harder yesterday, because the town will be in LYLO no matter what happens to me today.
Again, this is dependent on the logic of Shockeyy being sacrificed, because I think he could have easily kept silent and let the town flounder a little longer without a target.
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On December 20 2010 14:46 BrownBear wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2010 13:29 Kavdragon wrote:On December 20 2010 08:29 BrownBear wrote:On December 20 2010 08:22 LSB wrote:On December 20 2010 08:12 BrownBear wrote:On December 20 2010 07:24 Kavdragon wrote:Ok, to make sure we are all on the same page, here's the situation: We are currently at 8/5/1. By lynch, or M2's night kill, we must kill two mafia two days in a row to survive. Here is my bubble, let me know if I did anything wrong. (http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/5751/mafiaendgame.jpg if you want to see it un-resized, and not blurry) This means that we cannot lynch M2. (For at least two nights, anyways) On December 20 2010 05:40 BrownBear wrote: ##Vote: DCLXVI ##Vote: d3_crescentia ##Vote: Double Lynch
You appear to have slipped sir. Vote Brownbear. I waited to post this to see if anyone would vote D3, Brownbear didn't disappoint. Also, this may or may not make DCLXVI less suspicious. You decide. I disagree with you, but then, I'm biased against town alliances w/ 3rd parties. They never work out well for anyone. Personally, my view is that if we know who MewTwo is, we should lynch him. End of story. What do you think we should do today if we don't work with MewTwo then? Also, how will the numbers look like? Mewtwo has failed to net us a single TR kill so far. I highly doubt that he will. Lets say we lynch a TR and Mewtwo today. That will put us, after night kills, at 7 to 4. No. After night kills we will be at 6 to 4.Now, let's say we lynch 2 TRs today, That's 2 kills from them, then a kill from Mewtwo which will put us at either 7 to 3 or 6 to 3. However, that's relying on Mewtwo to actually hit a TR - something I highly doubt will happen. Again, no. If we lynch two TR today, then it's 8/3/1. After night kills it's 6/2/1 or 5/3/1. Or how about 1 TR, 1 Town. We have 8 town to 4 TR and mewtwo left, that's 4 nightkills, unless we get HUGELY lucky, we could be put in a 4-4 situation where we'd be absolutely fucked. I think you are under the assumption that there are 9 town. There are 8. In the case of lynching 1TR and 1 Town, we wold be looking at 7 to 4. After night kills, 5 to 4 or 6 to 3. That situation would depend on D3's ability to snipe a mafia. We're basically in LYLO at this point, we need to kill off the anti-town players we know. And we know d3 is anti-town. D3 is working with us for now. I agree that he needs to go eventually, but if we assume him to be hostile, then we can assume that we've lost as well. Your math is fail, I'm afraid. Lynch one TR, that drops them to 4, which drops their KP to 2. Thus, we will have one more town then your projections. Honestly, I don't know how you could have missed that, unless you were deliberately trying to mislead town. What?
8 town 5 TR 1 mewtwo.
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That makes it 6/4/0 if we lynch 1TR/1M2. Are YOU trying to mislead town?
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On December 21 2010 03:21 BrownBear wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2010 15:01 d3_crescentia wrote: That makes it 6/4/0 if we lynch 1TR/1M2. Are YOU trying to mislead town? I count 9 Pokealliance remaining, so unless I'm missing something huge... The frontpage isn't correct. If there are only 14 players left with 5 being mafia and 1 being me, how can we have 9?
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On December 21 2010 09:33 LSB wrote: D3, why are you pushing for the Node lynch? Thinking I might switch. Hard to make a decision right now.
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lawlawlawlawlawlawl I'm killing infundibulum tonite
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On December 21 2010 14:18 Infundibulum wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2010 13:47 d3_crescentia wrote: lawlawlawlawlawlawl I'm killing infundibulum tonite what did i ever do to you? not give me your love </3
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Now can we get a mass roleclaim so I know which mafia clown to kill?
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On December 21 2010 14:37 LSB wrote: I'm cloyster But, I'm all for killing Infun, or DCXLIV orly
what about gabe's cloyster claim
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Man this dramallama needs to die.
Maybe I kill DCLXVI to see where his bombs are placed.
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Don't forget M2. If I finagle it just right I can still win. -_-
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On December 21 2010 16:14 Infundibulum wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2010 16:06 d3_crescentia wrote: Don't forget M2. If I finagle it just right I can still win. -_- Yeah, but you're the only one in the game that wants that. they say it's lonely at the top. i bet all mewtwo ever needed was a friend Why won't you love me? WHY WON'T YOU LOVE ME?
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On December 22 2010 16:02 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Ok now that this game is over I can ask who killed me and why? I thought I would have been a terrible night one hit. I did. It was a gut call based on how noob you were posting and but it turned out you were just what you appeared. I figured Night 1 I'd be okay if I missed anyway. Sorry =/
For my night 2 I was actually torn between Inf/Darth, as I thought one of them had to be mafia. In the end I picked Darth so that was unfortunate.
Night 3 I followed LSB's suggestion to hit brocket. Originally my plan was to target DC or LSB had the heat not been brought down on me. I should've pushed harder for DC; also I missed out on the chainsaw defense tell by Kavdragon. Silly, silly me.
Also, apologies to Brownbear. Looks like you had the right of it.
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On December 23 2010 03:59 Kavdragon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2010 19:01 d3_crescentia wrote: Night 3 I followed LSB's suggestion to hit brocket. Originally my plan was to target DC or LSB had the heat not been brought down on me. I should've pushed harder for DC; also I missed out on the chainsaw defense tell by Kavdragon. Silly, silly me.
Out of curiosity, what was my chainsaw defense? The massive analysis of you that i pulled up? (I'm not saying I didn't do it, I'm just a little confused on the terms.) Chainsaw defense: a player who defends another player by attacking the other player's attacker is very probably scum. As with all mafiawiki scumtells it's about as accurate as it isn't, but there were a few things that SHOULD have tipped me off.
I mean, yeah - I was posting pretty aggressively and ragingly so those were fair points, but the thing is that I should have spotted it for what it was when you failed to give your opinion on DCLXVI afterward instead of deflating and ignoring you as a potential suspect.
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