EPTI might change my vote and feel free to persuade me.
Haunted Mafia - Page 39
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grandmoose
United States160 Posts
I might change my vote and feel free to persuade me. | ||
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CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
WHY is Veldril more important than Masq? We are only voting for him BECAUSE he tried to defend Masq, so if we're voting for him, then we just assume that Masq is also M/V. Correct? So why not be methodical about it, and start with Masq? If he proves to be a Mafia/Vamp, then we'll know for sure that so is Veldril. If not, then our whole premise was wrong and we should rethink our steps. How is this an issue? WHY VELDRIL FIRST? I don't get the reasoning here. | ||
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jodogohoo
Canada2533 Posts
On October 12 2010 19:29 HeavOnEarth wrote: Wow after reading the thread I am thoroughly convinced we may have a mafia/vampire kill on day 1- Veldril. Nice work spotting him Bill + Show Spoiler [veldril's posts] + On October 11 2010 14:46 Veldril wrote: Reporting in. Many victims seems to die by a weapon, maybe most are killed by mafia? Or maybe the vampire mimic the mafia style? However, I'm not sure is this important or not. Also, nice find Glasse. That's really helpful. But maybe we can get more clue from the first night post that make the mafia/vamp more visible. On October 11 2010 15:03 Veldril wrote: Hey, he's killed by a dagger not sword, lol. And if you buy enough knives then you can literally pierce a person at every spot. On October 11 2010 15:08 Veldril wrote: Actually this is from his younger self one. But in this game I would like to be the one in my profile picture more, lol. On October 11 2010 15:11 Veldril wrote: Another thing is that are we too readily to blame Masq for the kill? The evidence is quite obvious but it could be too obvious sometimes. We need to be a little bit more careful about voting. On October 11 2010 15:33 Veldril wrote: I don't have one specific in my mind right now (that's why I don't vote yet). But I have some idea... Firstly, because the Mafia and Vampire knows who are on the same team with them, they would want to deflect the blame if a person in his team is suspected. A person who rashly accuses other person could be a Mafia or a Vampire, especially on Day 1. Note that this is not about presenting suspicious players' profiles. But it's more about looking at only one profile and making an accusation without analysis or with an over-analysis. Secondly, I believe that there's old-school player here so we might be able to check their previous post first before making an accusation. Analyzing the old posts in previous games might become useful if you have time to do it. On October 11 2010 15:40 Veldril wrote: Oh and by Mafia/Vampire deflecting blame in the first point of my previous post is that if they are lucky, they could kill other side too. For Mafia/Vampire, I think they don't care much about who dies in the first couple of days/nights as long as it's not on their side. Townie dies mean they have less choice to make in the next cycle and if they can force townie to vote to kill the other side, then that would make them even have more profit. Oh and I don't say that Masq is surely not a killer. I just think we need to look further for other clues too before accusing him solely. But he's one of the suspects though. (Maybe I need a ghost in the first night  ).On October 12 2010 00:43 Veldril wrote: Oh well, I think I deserve to be suspected for protecting Masq. But let's be clear, I'm suspecting Masq too but I don't want to draw conclusion based solely on the story that the GM wrote. To quote what Dr.H written in the introduction: That means the clue might hurt townie like us too. Now let me response to Bill Murray's post: I like your post here. Yes, I was absolutely did a bad post and deserve to be suspected. But after reading Ver's guide, do you think I would make a same mistake that Misder made in the past? I think not. Could you please clarify how I admitted that I'm a mafia/vampire? Because I defended Masq? I guess your logic is something like this. If someone is a mafia/vampire then that person would defend blame on his team mate. If a person defend other person then those people are teammate. Veldril defend Masq Therefore,Veldril and Masq are team mate. Therefore, Veldril and Masq are vampire. If your logic is like above then I think you have made both formal fallacy and informal fallacy. With an experienced player like you, it is unlikely that you would make such fallacies, unless you ignore them to make an accusation on me with some agendas. Of course, I could be wrong but in that case, could you please clarify why do you think I team up with Masq please? On October 12 2010 00:46 Veldril wrote: Oh and Bill, I concluded that you are experienced player because you participated in many Mafia game before. You even hosted a game. I checked your post history. On October 12 2010 02:12 Veldril wrote: After spending time reading rules, I do agree that miss-lynch on the first day is not a big issue. We have 61 players here, with 22 reds. That we have 39 greens/blues. Considering that mafias and vampires each can kill up to 3 people (or have to kill three people I'm not sure, might need clarification on this), we can say that on the first day plus first night, there will be up to 7 people dead. If all dead are hit at townie, then townie will have 32 player left. And worst case would be 7 of either vampire or mafia are killed (only single side), which I believe is very unlikely. On October 12 2010 03:14 Veldril wrote: Oh yeah, I miscounted and forgot about that. Thanks for a reminder and correction. On October 12 2010 03:50 Veldril wrote: You can accuse me as much as you like. That doesn't refute my point I made earlier about you. Oh and nice about forcing Aztorisk to vote me by publishing the PM. On October 12 2010 04:00 Veldril wrote: type (blue) message (/blue) but replacing () with [] Example: blue green red On October 12 2010 04:07 Veldril wrote: Hmmm, fair enough. You have your points spoken and that's fine for me. Well, maybe I jumped my conclusion that "experienced player = player familiar with logic" so if that's not true then my argument would be unsound. But since we really don't know is it true or not, we could just left it for others to decide. On October 12 2010 04:21 Veldril wrote: Deconduo has posted once. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=159453¤tpage=17#327 On October 12 2010 04:30 Veldril wrote: Ah I see, seems to miss your post. Anyway, off to sleep now since it's night here in Asia. On October 12 2010 19:02 Veldril wrote: It seems most people are out for my blood now. I feel like now when I try to defend or propose something up, most people will come up with even more excuses to vote me. It seems I really made a grudge with Bill Murray, since he's the most vocal to get me killed. I don't really understand why you would want me to get lynched so badly. I would shift a vote off you if you have explain the reason why do you think "defending others" would mean "Red defends Red". Also, I feel that either me or Masq get lynched, it would not be a good situation for Townie or me at all. If Masq get lynched and turn out to be red, people would still suspect me and that could hurt townie since they would spend their focus on me being red and I would still get fried. If Masq turn out to be green, I don't think some people will let me go free without discrediting me, therefore I could not make impact in the future day/night. However, if I get lynched today, it would be a game over. It may seems cowardice but I will have to vote for Masq to save myself. I just wish that Masq indeed turns out to be green. chiming in after being suspected of being inactive / lurking posting what appears to be helpful information, but in reality i suspect the reds are sacrificing veldril while getting their members to accuse him at the same time, so that when we find out veldril is a red, people will think his accusers are innocent. which they aren't! On October 12 2010 20:40 Coagulation wrote: in regards to the creeper and gravedigger roles.. are people aware that they are this role or do they just think they are zombies? just pm the mods instead of cluttering also here is a an updated list and point in order from lowest to highest amount of posts CKSide 0 Therick 0 TheMunkey 0 Kuja900 0 Lexpar 0 AirbladeOrange 0 kenpachi 0 kingjames01 0 Neos 0 goldfishs 0 Zeraghul 0 chesshaha 0 KhrisKruel 0 l0st_romantic 0 grandmoose 0 Iankill 0 Yogy 0 Node 0 mptj 0 grandmoose 1 HeavOnEarth 1 LastArgument 1 SiNiquity 1 Hyperbola 1 MetalFace 1 Hittegods 1 Kpyolysis32 1 Flicky 2 ShmotZ 2 bumatlarge 3 ~OpZ~ 3 Lucktar 3 Masq 4 d3_crescentia 4 zerroth 4 kitaman27 5 Glasse 6 southrawrea 7 Aeres 7 KtheZ 7 oddo123 7 YummyBlaBla 9 Nemesis 9 deconduo 10 jaminz 11 quickstriker 14 Veldril 17 pandain 18 annul 18 LSB 19 thegilaboy 20 CubEdIn 22 seRaPh 27 NB 30 coagulation 38 jodogohoo 41 youngminii 40 jcarlsoniv 43 aztrorisk 51 Bill Murray 56 orgolove 68 | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On October 12 2010 22:42 CubEdIn wrote: I don't get this bandwaggoning that's going on. WHY is Veldril more important than Masq? We are only voting for him BECAUSE he tried to defend Masq, so if we're voting for him, then we just assume that Masq is also M/V. Correct? So why not be methodical about it, and start with Masq? If he proves to be a Mafia/Vamp, then we'll know for sure that so is Veldril. If not, then our whole premise was wrong and we should rethink our steps. How is this an issue? WHY VELDRIL FIRST? I don't get the reasoning here. I am not condemning Veldril only because he defended Masq. That was what led into it. His actions afterwards are what convinced me that he should be lynched. He started "chainsaw defending", pointing fingers elsewhere, but not aggressively. He was doing it rather passively, trying to just slip out of view and get the attention somewhere else. When someone created an argument, he conceded very very easily, which I see as an attempt to make fewer enemies. His posts made it seem like he was trying to prove innocence, which is not necessarily something a townie would feel the need to do as much. | ||
Flicky
England2662 Posts
Seems like the safer bet to me. My main note currently is that Veldril is so closely tied to Masq, that if Masq turns out to be Mafia or Vampires, then Veldril will be gone that night. | ||
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Thegilaboy
United States2018 Posts
On October 12 2010 14:34 QuickStriker wrote: Just wanted to restate what I said here. Thegilaboy, if you were here, it's just nothing personal.... it's to settle our unfinished duel... :D You're a dick  Man there is a lot of spam on this board, some people really need to tone down on the useless one-liners with no substance. Anyway, I tried catching up this morning, after wading through a lot of shit: Orglove is either a very enthusiastic townie, or he is a red trying to hold the reigns over a lot of newbies who will come to rely on his spreadsheet and and what I'll call "assessments." Spreadsheets are very useful, but you posting yours in every post is actually revealing information you should keep to yourself at times. But hey, you could be a very active townie and I might be off on my suspicions, I just think you might want to tone down on the spreadsheet since it has been found to be incorrect three times now I believe. I know we really want to get our first day's lynch in order since the hours are winding down, but that also means the hours are winding down on any coordination of our blue roles. I believe Pandain is attempting to coordinate MH placements, which can be a good thing for town even if he is red I suppose since he will be gunning for the other red team. Aztorisk may have jumped the gun on his role claim so early on, but that was partially due to the fact that the rules/descriptions weren't as clear as there are now. I know BM has been throwing around some ideas for Ghost placement in terms of the Masq/Veldril thing, anyone else have a thought on that? Anyway, back to rereading the last few pages again | ||
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Lexpar
1813 Posts
Jodogohoo. You accuse nearly everyone of nearly everything directly after they post. You've switched your vote half a dozen times. You're twitchy dude. Really twitchy. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
Ghost: I would say ghosts could protect those who have been most outspoken towards voting a certain way. If the lynchee ends up being M/V, that side could be vengeful and want to take out whoever pushed for the lynching. This could be myself/Bill Murray for Veldril, or even Cubedin and others for Masq. Also, orgolove could be in danger because he is providing a database of observations for the town. Detective: I would like to find out orgolove's or jodogohoo's affiliation. While orgo has been supposedly helpful to the town, it doesn't shake the fact that his intentions could be malicious. Jodo has been disruptive the entire time, and has changed his vote many times already. Also, as I stated in one of my last posts, I find this interaction somewhat suspicious: On October 12 2010 21:29 jcarlsoniv wrote: Gooooooooood Morning! I am going to keep an eye on this little post. Jodogohoo has been spamming the entire game. I have told him off, as well as many others. However, in this post, it can be read as a sarcastic little smack by a teammate (I know, sarcasm over internet = bad). The "<3" only reinforces this feeling. Sure, it could be a guy who feels bad about spamming. OR, it could be a subtle teammate interaction slip up. I didn't catch it at first, because it just looked like more spam within the few pages of utter worthlessness, but I think it could point to something. Boogeyman: I would say, depending on who gets lynched (Masq/Veldril) we could spy in the closet of the other. This could open a bit of insight. However, it does open a bit of vulnerability to the Brute, so other options should also be looked at, Mad Scientist: I'm not sure how this should be used. Whoever is the scientist should look at the clues and see if there is anything that they can link to people other than Masq/Veldril so we could possible gather more information. Jack O'Lantern: It seems Pandain is handling the suggestions on this, so I'll let him take it. Information is going to be our greatest asset going into Day 2, so anything we can gather on Night 1 will be good for the town. | ||
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meeple
Canada10211 Posts
On October 12 2010 20:40 Coagulation wrote: in regards to the creeper and gravedigger roles.. are people aware that they are this role or do they just think they are zombies? The creeper and gravedigger are unaware of their role. They are normal townies... just with a slight predisposition to creepiness that makes them show up red in a rolecheck. | ||
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Veldril
Thailand1817 Posts
On October 12 2010 23:24 jcarlsoniv wrote: I am not condemning Veldril only because he defended Masq. That was what led into it. His actions afterwards are what convinced me that he should be lynched. He started "chainsaw defending", pointing fingers elsewhere, but not aggressively. He was doing it rather passively, trying to just slip out of view and get the attention somewhere else. When someone created an argument, he conceded very very easily, which I see as an attempt to make fewer enemies. His posts made it seem like he was trying to prove innocence, which is not necessarily something a townie would feel the need to do as much. I find it odd with your observation here. When I attack BM's argument back then, I attacked him quite aggressively to make his logic fall apart. Every time I try to defend my position, he respond very aggressively so I have to try other methods to back my argument, which is what make he thinks that by protecting Masq is equal to we teaming up and be on the same team. He still doesn't response me and when orglove try to press him at this point, he also react aggressively. Also, if most people start accusing you, wouldn't you want to prove your innocence. Since I don't have proof and I don't want to point finger randomly (only to BM now). That's why I stated in the previous post, every attempt of me defending myself looks like I make a bad post as a red, and every aggressive move toward me is a good post or good observation for some people. Doesn't it weird? Final note, please look at where I come from. You have to consider cultural and personality impact on making arguments too, because sometimes Asian countries have different way to answer. In Thailand, it is most of the time considered polite to be passive when someone make an argument against you. We also consider our false directly in logical argument so we would not misjudge or build a better argument. | ||
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youngminii
Australia7514 Posts
"People already think I'm mafia so no matter what I say/argue, people will think I'm saying that because I'm mafia". We are not idiots, there are people here that have been playing mafia for years. If you actually posted something of value as your defense, we may be swayed in our decision to lynch you. Instead, you act like you've already given up and that you have no defense. I'm sure everyone has a friend that never apologizes and instead says "well what do you want me to do, I can't do anything about it" instead of a simple "sorry". This is what you are doing and as such, I want everyone to vote for and lynch you. If you aren't scum then at least we've made an example of you as WHAT NOT TO DO. | ||
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Veldril
Thailand1817 Posts
On October 13 2010 00:56 youngminii wrote: Your argument consists of the following: "People already think I'm mafia so no matter what I say/argue, people will think I'm saying that because I'm mafia". We are not idiots, there are people here that have been playing mafia for years. If you actually posted something of value as your defense, we may be swayed in our decision to lynch you. Instead, you act like you've already given up and that you have no defense. I'm sure everyone has a friend that never apologizes and instead says "well what do you want me to do, I can't do anything about it" instead of a simple "sorry". This is what you are doing and as such, I want everyone to vote for and lynch you. If you aren't scum then at least we've made an example of you as WHAT NOT TO DO. Noted that I have said "some people" or "most people", I don't include all of you. What I'm thinking is that there are people who try to sway new people on this situation. My argument would be "There are people who try to discredit me, therefore it will be hard for me to come up with an argument". When I try to argue back, for example against BM, he react aggressively and from that point, I feel some people start to criticize my argument make against him that I was trying to point finger away. When I try to be more passive, some people point out that I did it because I want to prove innocence that townie would not do. Not everyone do this, but there are some that do. I am pretty sure they are somehow under influence of others, directly or indirectly. Yes, I make a point that is more passive compare to others many times. That's due to my personality outside of the game. If it's bad, then at least I know now that it's not a good thing to do in the future. | ||
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Yogy
United States9 Posts
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On October 13 2010 00:26 jcarlsoniv wrote: Hmm...my take on possible Blue options tonight: Ghost: I would say ghosts could protect those who have been most outspoken towards voting a certain way. If the lynchee ends up being M/V, that side could be vengeful and want to take out whoever pushed for the lynching. This could be myself/Bill Murray for Veldril, or even Cubedin and others for Masq. Also, orgolove could be in danger because he is providing a database of observations for the town. Detective: I would like to find out orgolove's or jodogohoo's affiliation. While orgo has been supposedly helpful to the town, it doesn't shake the fact that his intentions could be malicious. Jodo has been disruptive the entire time, and has changed his vote many times already. Also, as I stated in one of my last posts, I find this interaction somewhat suspicious: Boogeyman: I would say, depending on who gets lynched (Masq/Veldril) we could spy in the closet of the other. This could open a bit of insight. However, it does open a bit of vulnerability to the Brute, so other options should also be looked at, Mad Scientist: I'm not sure how this should be used. Whoever is the scientist should look at the clues and see if there is anything that they can link to people other than Masq/Veldril so we could possible gather more information. Jack O'Lantern: It seems Pandain is handling the suggestions on this, so I'll let him take it. Information is going to be our greatest asset going into Day 2, so anything we can gather on Night 1 will be good for the town. I think it would be good to have more discussion on it to gain more insight on town opinions. | ||
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Lexpar
1813 Posts
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Archas
United States6531 Posts
On October 13 2010 01:44 jcarlsoniv wrote: What does everyone think about my suggestions for Blue uses? + Show Spoiler + On October 13 2010 00:26 jcarlsoniv wrote: Hmm...my take on possible Blue options tonight: Ghost: I would say ghosts could protect those who have been most outspoken towards voting a certain way. If the lynchee ends up being M/V, that side could be vengeful and want to take out whoever pushed for the lynching. This could be myself/Bill Murray for Veldril, or even Cubedin and others for Masq. Also, orgolove could be in danger because he is providing a database of observations for the town. Detective: I would like to find out orgolove's or jodogohoo's affiliation. While orgo has been supposedly helpful to the town, it doesn't shake the fact that his intentions could be malicious. Jodo has been disruptive the entire time, and has changed his vote many times already. Also, as I stated in one of my last posts, I find this interaction somewhat suspicious: Boogeyman: I would say, depending on who gets lynched (Masq/Veldril) we could spy in the closet of the other. This could open a bit of insight. However, it does open a bit of vulnerability to the Brute, so other options should also be looked at, Mad Scientist: I'm not sure how this should be used. Whoever is the scientist should look at the clues and see if there is anything that they can link to people other than Masq/Veldril so we could possible gather more information. Jack O'Lantern: It seems Pandain is handling the suggestions on this, so I'll let him take it. Information is going to be our greatest asset going into Day 2, so anything we can gather on Night 1 will be good for the town. I think it would be good to have more discussion on it to gain more insight on town opinions. Overall, seems like a sound plan. However, I don't think that the Brute is such a problem this early in the game. I mean, from my understanding, the Brute is more of a trump card later on, when all three populations have been thinned out a bit. Since Masq and Veldril are both the primary targets today, I doubt the Brute would be necessary for either of them, since one of them is dying tonight regardless, and lynching or an alternate kill method would do the job for the other more efficiently. I don't think the Vampires would waste such a powerful tool on either of them... and there's always the possibility that one or both of them are Vampires too (sucks for them = /), in which case the Brute's not going after them. Also, I confess I don't really understand why oroglove is being suspected of wrongdoing. He said himself that he'd do his best to remedy mistakes in the spreadsheet, and such a document is a huge asset to the townspeople. Am I missing something as to why he's being accused of malice? Not taking sides or anything, I'm just genuinely confused. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On October 13 2010 02:10 Aeres wrote: Overall, seems like a sound plan. However, I don't think that the Brute is such a problem this early in the game. I mean, from my understanding, the Brute is more of a trump card later on, when all three populations have been thinned out a bit. Since Masq and Veldril are both the primary targets today, I doubt the Brute would be necessary for either of them, since one of them is dying tonight regardless, and lynching or an alternate kill method would do the job for the other more efficiently. I don't think the Vampires would waste such a powerful tool on either of them... and there's always the possibility that one or both of them are Vampires too (sucks for them = /), in which case the Brute's not going after them. Also, I confess I don't really understand why oroglove is being suspected of wrongdoing. He said himself that he'd do his best to remedy mistakes in the spreadsheet, and such a document is a huge asset to the townspeople. Am I missing something as to why he's being accused of malice? Not taking sides or anything, I'm just genuinely confused. I don't think the Brute is much of a threat so early either, but that doesn't mean we should ignore it as a threat. I'm not necessarily accusing orgo. His database is a good tool for the town. But it is dangerous leaving someone with that much pull/influence unchecked, regardless if he is friendly or enemy. I'm not trying to accuse him. I just want people to be aware of the possibility. Finding out his affiliation sooner rather than later, I believe, will be beneficial. If we find out he is green, then hooray, we can trust his database with very little worry. If we find out he's red, then immediately, Day 2, it is one less thing the town has to look at and worry about. | ||
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Kpyolysis32
553 Posts
On October 12 2010 16:01 jodogohoo wrote: neos, yogy have voted for a lynch on masq kenpachi, grandmoose have voted for a lynch on veldril very suspicious in my opinion. i feel like they are newbie reds told to keep low by some more experienced reds but also told to vote for specific people early on as to not have to vote near the end, which is also suspicious. and they also voted for the people who may be on the opposing red fraction... or something @_@ not entirely sure if my deductions are clear, but the idea is there, hopefully someone will be able to take what i said and state it in a more concise statement I actually really like this idea. We probably wouldn't want to actually follow through on lynching them unless they react in a way that shows them to be reds, because we have some people who are more likely to be scum, but we could potentially get some useful information from even just a temporary vote switch, at least if you're right and they are newbie reds. I would be down for this. I'm in favor of voting Kenpachi, because he looks to be the most active of them, so I think he's the most likely to see it and react quickly, but if someone has a better method for deciding, I'd be willing to change. | ||
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Lexpar
1813 Posts
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kingjames01
Canada1603 Posts
Everyone needs to remember: - Vampires know who the other vampires are - Mafia members know who the other mafia are - Only Town doesn't know anything - There are 39 Town-aligned players If there's a bandwagon against someone and everyone starts to join, it ALWAYS benefits the Vampires/Mafia if they know that person doesn't belong to the same team. So slow down and consider that you're probably voting to kill a Green or a Blue. If someone finds a clue in a profile, ask yourself: Did that person check EVERYONE? Did YOU check EVERYONE? If not, you are not doing your due diligence and are going to get innocents killed. The people who are leading the bandwagons ARE NOT YOUR FRIENDS. Those are the people you should be suspicious of. "Oh guess what everyone? I just found another clue and that means X is guilty. Let's lynch him." If he flips Green/Blue - "Oh, he's Green/Blue? My mistake!" otherwise he'll flip whichever Red team he's not on, "Oh he's Vampire/Mafia? Great, see? I'm helping!" Evaluate the evidence for yourself before you jump on a bandwagon. As for my vote it goes to Veldril for all of his inconsistencies in the game so far. He's playing like he has information to hide and he's hoping he won't get caught. | ||
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