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Team Melee Mini Mafia II

Forum Index > TL Mafia
Post a Reply
YellowInk
Profile Joined April 2010
United States578 Posts
August 25 2010 23:58 GMT
#95
I've been really busy lately, but am thinking of joining in this. Someone should convince me why it'd be a good idea for me to be on their team and maybe I'll sign up with them. (:

Oh, and SC2 is still awesome. My 'number' is 988, feel free to friend me for gaming.
YellowInk
Profile Joined April 2010
United States578 Posts
September 16 2010 10:44 GMT
#147
On August 26 2010 08:58 YellowInk wrote:
I've been really busy lately, but am thinking of joining in this. Someone should convince me why it'd be a good idea for me to be on their team and maybe I'll sign up with them. (:

Oh, and SC2 is still awesome. My 'number' is 988, feel free to friend me for gaming.

On September 15 2010 06:19 meeple wrote:
Jeez that was quick BC... Yeah its been a while since I played a game I guess

I could team up with YellowInk if he's still around?

C'mon meeple, can't you be any more convincing than this?

Korynne did PM me and I'll say now that I can play, but fair warning that I'll probably post little more than once per (real life) day. You likely won't see me hanging around sniping people like you've seen previously. That being said, once I get into a game sometimes I just can't help myself no matter what other obligations I have...

I'm flexible to whatever time settings the rest of you would like - if I were a host I'd want to pick out whatever time setting made my own life easiest.
YellowInk
Profile Joined April 2010
United States578 Posts
September 16 2010 23:06 GMT
#151
On September 17 2010 04:32 Bill Murray wrote:
he's sort of like radfield, except he doesn't die every night
tbh I wouldn't be surprised if I won the Radfield Jr. Bearie by this game.
YellowInk
Profile Joined April 2010
United States578 Posts
September 18 2010 04:24 GMT
#159
tbh I like f11 more than c9, but in the end I'm just here to play whatever. Team mafia is cool.
YellowInk
Profile Joined April 2010
United States578 Posts
September 19 2010 05:22 GMT
#182
I think we should hang Ace and Bill Murray.
YellowInk
Profile Joined April 2010
United States578 Posts
September 19 2010 14:18 GMT
#191
On September 19 2010 19:38 Ace wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 19 2010 18:44 Incognito wrote:
Ah just noticed that the game has started. I know its the weekend and people might be busy (I sure am), but I can't help but notice that something is already off in this game. A couple people are acting out of the ordinary. I'll keep a close eye on these players. However, I won't/can't afford to give them much time to straighten out their act though, so shape it up quickly so I can have time to organize my thoughts/put forward a lynch candidate.

We're not lynching based on inactivity this game folks. Its Team Melee Mafia, so inactivity lynch makes little sense. 8 "players" should make this game short and quick. There's no time to waste. I won't talk about activity right now given the game just started, but I will assume people are going to be active. Glancing at the player roster we have a game where every team should have someone who can be expected to carry some weight.

I didn't read the last TMMM game entirely, but I noticed the last game had a fairly large discussion on two player vs. three player teams in the context of inactivity and the pros/cons of having a two/three player team. This discussion is pointless, wastes our precious time, and derails the town from its focus of finding and eliminating the mafia. Mafia like such a discussion because they can be active while keeping the town distracted from finding the mafia. Learning to recognize and avoid pointless arguments will get us a long way.

With that said, time for some useful discussion. Unlike the TL Mafia game's I've played, this game doesn't have a Godfather. Therefore, DTs are that much more viable, especially in terms of checking QUIET scummy teams. Medics should be protecting VOCAL pro-town teams. This way, mafia is incentivized to take pot shots at the middle of the pool, as shooting the scummy players is obviously bad and helps narrow down the pool, and shooting active players risks running into medic protection. Mafia is also incentivized to be active because a) they can draw medic protection, b) they must avoid being targetted by DT checks. Mafia can't hide at the bottom because there is no GF or miller card to save them. There are also way to few players to be able to effectively hide from DT checks. The beauty is that even if DTs/medics don't exist, mafia must still play as if they do exist. So this strategy does not rely on the existence of blue roles.

My general theory is that we need a) to let the DT check whoever he thinks is most scummy, and b) vote/make a list of the 2 top active/helpful players for the medic to protect. The reason why the DT should decide on his own who to check is merely so that mafia doesn't manipulate the target. The reason why we vote for the teams to be put on the medic list is because it is that much harder to vote for someone useless while claiming they're useful. Its a lot easier to manipulate the DT check by voting since its easier to point out flaws than real genuine activity. Of course even townies will make mistakes. So we just bypass the DT check voting.

Spam. I've had to stop reading all of the last 5 or so games after getting a day or so into it because the thread just kept expanding at a phenomenal rate. Let's try to keep the thread clean and organized. I want to make sure important information is not shoved into a corner and ignored. In order to help the town organize, I suggest that at the end of every post, everyone should write a short sentence stating the point of the post. Its easy to wander aimlessly while writing a post. Writing what the main point at the end of every post should help you stay focused, help us focus on what you're trying to convey, and restrict the mafia's ability to derail the thread.

I'm going to count on Team 3 and 6 for some strong analysis within the next 24 hours. Please do not disappoint.

***

Main points:

1) Focus on behavior analysis!
2) Stay out of useless conversations. Be pro-town and kill them rather than fan them into flame.
3) Force mafia to play proactively by threat of efficient use of blue roles.
4) Vote on medic list to protect active townies.
5) Make it a point to work toward a specific goal when posting.


what is this shit?
I agree.
YellowInk
Profile Joined April 2010
United States578 Posts
September 19 2010 17:53 GMT
#199
On September 20 2010 02:02 LSB wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 19 2010 14:22 YellowInk wrote:
I think we should hang Ace and Bill Murray.

Why?
Bill Murray frequently plays in a way that is destructive to town productivity when he is town. Among all the histories of those I know playing, he gives me the greatest reason to hang given a blind choice.

However, I do agree with Ace.

Ace's question needs to be answered and Bill Murray needs to show that he'll help the town. Then we'll see how things go.
YellowInk
Profile Joined April 2010
United States578 Posts
September 20 2010 21:41 GMT
#269
So there has been some good discussion occurring. As is typical, there are plenty of flaws in arguments. The key here is to figure out where people are trying to be productive (granted, a difficult task on day 1) and where people are trying to look like they're being productive or otherwise staying out of the line of fire.

I am satisfied with Incognito's further discussions.

I would like to hear more from BloodyC0bbler and RebirthOfLeGenD. BC has not had much to say, and I don't feel RoL has contributed very effectively.
YellowInk
Profile Joined April 2010
United States578 Posts
September 21 2010 04:39 GMT
#296
Alright. I'm pretty convinced. The short version: No lynch is bad. This team's posting has been either unproductive or supporting anti-town ideals.

##Vote: Team 6, BloodyC0bbler and RebirthOfLeGenD

Current thoughts on blues: If I were a medic, I'd probably cover either myself, team 4, or team 8. Not sure who I'd poke at if I were a DT yet.
YellowInk
Profile Joined April 2010
United States578 Posts
September 21 2010 13:44 GMT
#333
So I am presented here with a problem.

I still find it more likely that Team 6 is mafia than Team 1, though I agree with what most people have had to say about Team 1. After my last post, it was my intention to go into greater detail about why I believe what I do about Team 6 after a few hours and got some reactions.

However, it is far more important that a lynch occurs that I would be 'ok' with than a no lynch than to potentially divide the town among targets and allow a no lynch to occur. Therefore:
##Unvote Team 6
##Vote Team 1, LSB and Pyrrhuloxia


With respect to RebirthOfLeGenD's amazing rebuttal, here is why no lynch is bad.
+ Show Spoiler +
As has been previously stated, it is critical to scum hunt, not protect innocents. On this premise alone, the default correct action is to hang. We cannot expect to make any significant informational gains from day 1 to day 2. The only hard and useful information we could gain is if a blue takes a successful action and conveys this information to the town in a convincing fashion. This assumes both that the blue exists and that the blue takes the successful action. Otherwise, the only knowledge we even get is who it is that the mafia choose to kill. This information is rarely useful in actually tracking down mafia since they will often simply choose a target because it is most ripe - one which they think is relatively unlikely to hang and relatively unlikely to be protected by a medic.

Consider as an alternative how useful it might be if we could extend day 1. Post analysis is the only way to track down scum in the beginning. The truth is that this carries on to day 2 in almost every game. As in almost any game of mafia, the town does not have the luxury of waiting until they feel super secure that team X is mafia. Unfortunately we do not have the option of extending day 1 to draw out more information, but we cannot choose to give up a lynch.

The purpose of a no lynch is for specific endgame situations. These have been outlined previously, but I will include them here for completeness. Suppose you have 3 town, 1 mafia, and no blues. Choosing no lynch here does not really hurt the town since if the town mislynches, the town loses, but on the no lynch you will be left with 2 town and 1 mafia. Now add in to the mix that the town has a blue among their 3. In this case the no lynch is very town positive. There's a chance the medic could successfully protect or the DT could find the scum. This argument can be extended out to similar endgame situations a day earlier as well.

Consider also that medic saves sometimes buy us an extra day. If we use a no lynch early (giving up a kill to the mafia 'for free'), this is like the reverse of a medic save. If we end up with an even number in the endgame because we used a no lynch in the early game, we have gained nothing from our use of no lynch.

Day 1 no lynch is very bad.
YellowInk
Profile Joined April 2010
United States578 Posts
September 21 2010 16:34 GMT
#335
A discussion generating question for those who have played with these people, do LSB and Pyrrhuloxia typically suck at defending themselves? The last 14 hours have had votes piling on them and not a peep - you'd think at least one of them would have something to say about it.
YellowInk
Profile Joined April 2010
United States578 Posts
September 21 2010 21:36 GMT
#370
@Korynne May I please request that you leave in parentheses or strikeout or whatever all people who have previously voted for someone after the vote is removed in the voting record? It makes it easier to keep track at a glance.
YellowInk
Profile Joined April 2010
United States578 Posts
September 21 2010 21:43 GMT
#372
At this point I believe that the mafia are among teams 1, 3, 5, and 6. I do not know precisely who, but at this stage of the day, hanging team 1 still makes sense. Ace, I was getting the same feeling initially about the bandwagoning onto team 1, but then I looked carefully at who was and wasn't on board with the team 1 vote and realized that just about everyone who was on the team 1 vote I already had a feeling of being pro town. The most suspect people have pushed the no lynch.

The recent argument made against no lynch was under the assumption of no medic saves. Consider what occurs if you have 1 medic save: we gain an entire day! In a typical game, a single medic save does not gain us a day. Using the no lynch here would lose us the day that a medic save could gain us.

No lynch is for endgame situations only. Hang team 1.
YellowInk
Profile Joined April 2010
United States578 Posts
September 23 2010 18:15 GMT
#455
##Vote Team 6, BloodyC0bbler and RebirthOfLeGenD

Review their posts to see their contributions. It won't take you long.
YellowInk
Profile Joined April 2010
United States578 Posts
September 23 2010 20:22 GMT
#459
On September 24 2010 04:59 SouthRawrea wrote:
What on earth? That is the worst attempt I've seen at redirecting suspicion.
Just because some people seem to have some odd ideas, I'll respond to this. I'm not redirecting suspicion. The accusations made against me are laughable.

I want people to look at T6 and give it some thought. I believe the difference to be sufficiently stark that the evidence speaks for itself.

Currently, I see a few different likely combinations of potential mafia teams. Most of the sensible combinations I've figured include T6. Hence, my vote.
YellowInk
Profile Joined April 2010
United States578 Posts
September 24 2010 17:13 GMT
#492
@Korynne Bill Murray and Ace are not permitted to vote (they are dead) and should not be on the non voter list.
YellowInk
Profile Joined April 2010
United States578 Posts
September 24 2010 19:41 GMT
#497
The problem with the vote on my team is that the logic is fundamentally flawed. Very similar arguments point much more heavily at T1. It would make much more sense to hang T1 then give T7 a much harder look should they flip red.

Should we hang, we will come up vanilla town. There will be little information gained since the arguments are backwards.

It really makes me wonder what is going on in Incog's head. He struck me with a town vibe mid to late day 1, but then presented the backwards argument to hang T7 before T1 on day 2. This just doesn't make sense to me. It makes sense to me if T1 and T8 are mafia. Then Pyrr can freely back me up on hanging T6 and defend me since either hang is good for them. Also in this case it means T6 just sucks. Maybe BC didn't really have time to play, idk.

I would also advise people to go back through every post that has attempted to accuse me (personally). Note how deeply my words and intent has been twisted in particular cases. This, in the end, is what puts me on the T1/8 track more than the T6/?? track.

Also note that this final switch back to T1 is putting my neck on the line since driving for a T6 kill would have been more likely to save me. I just hope that if we do hang that in future days the town will look and analyze for themselves rather than continue playing this super passive game. Better yet, hang T1 and we'll go from there.

##unvote
##Vote: Team 1, LSB and Pyrrhuloxia




YellowInk
Profile Joined April 2010
United States578 Posts
October 05 2010 11:48 GMT
#748
I wasn't sure that it would be worth my playing because of how this turned out. I felt I had a good understanding of what was going on, I just didn't have the time to be convincing. It really sucked.
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