EPTTL Mafia XXX - Page 2
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
if you all lynch me the town is being wasteful Pyrrhuloxia, there is no fucking way you know at least "4 of my teammates", unless you are mafia, and have deducted a list of town, but then you could still have a ninja mixed in and might be wrong even then. I do not see why you are throwing walls of text and tunneling on me at all. Could it be because you are trying to push a policy lynch and stifle any real discussion? I ended the RVS so we could actually discuss what we are going to do as a town. Why would you want to end the stage of the game where the town throws ideas out there? I'm sorry you disagree with my idea. Usually the town does, but that doesn't mean that we wouldn't win if we used it. After having just modded the last game, I realized something: The people the mafia try to kill are the ones that are trying to organize things (Subversion, zeks, laxercannon, etc), not the ones who are trying to policy lynch or are overly emotional (DTA, you, BrownBear, even me in past games) You know why the mafia won't try to kill me this game? Because I am like Stonewall Jackson, shot by my own troops. When I flip blue you all will really feel like idiots. | ||
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
On August 06 2010 19:19 youngminii wrote: Uh oh, someone made a huge blunder. Pyrr is very likely a ninja. he sent me this PM too: ----------------------------------------- Original Message: Ninjas have two lives. Unless you are the third ninja. But you aren't. Maybe he is in your employ. Doesn't matter, though. Your only hope (maybe) is to lynch me today. Good luck with that. When he sent me that, I assumed he might be a ninja. I didn't know they had two lives. | ||
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
On August 06 2010 22:18 Amber[LighT] wrote: Lol best post of the last 5 pages. Sorry BM I think a mass roleclaim is a terrible idea. I never like the idea in any setup for mafia since it really can mess up the flow of the game. Not to mention people (especially townies) have this odd obsession with lying. Let's review your last game that you hosted.... people were lying left and right about their roles. It definitely hurt the town as we had to focus on the liars and much of the attention was drawn off of suspicious players, like BC who was actually mafia. I'm a bigger advocate of town circles and mob mentality. It's not that I think this system works better in all instances, but it keeps the mafia on their toes for much of the game. If we all roleclaim honestly then they have a perfect list of all of the roles in the game. I'm not going to vote for you, yet. However I will reconsider if the day turns out a little differently. that's not what i was trying to do here, though, amber. i was trying to create confusion and get information out of the people who would be against roleclaiming (mafia and ninjas). Do you honestly believe I expected a single person to actually roleclaim to me? I did, but it was through a PM, not in the thread. Why would I ever do that in the thread? Because my role is the only role i know. I'm willing to back off of this, because it was a ploy, and now i'm going to help the town in more traditional ways. Also, mad props to chezinu for that video  On August 06 2010 22:28 LSB wrote: A bit of a late reply, but some of us sleep My Big Ninja Post Okay, I skimmed through XXII In XXII there were 4 assassins The first assassin got killed on the first day due to inactivity The 2nd and Third assassins got killed by other assassins on night 2. So from older games, the assassin's biggest danger are other assassins I agree with your Mafia Analysis, but not your Town analysis. The Ninja could get Medic protection, and DT help. Just remember, the Ninja obviously won't just say 'hullo' to a random townie. The Ninja would try to find a DT/Medic As for your Ninja caught by DT analysis, you misunderstood what I was trying to say. The Ninja caught by DT plan isn't one about working together, it's about the DT keeping the Ninja on a short least Here's how it would work out 1) DT identifies Ninja 2) DT contacts Ninja through a mouth, threatens Ninja. Says "You better work with me or I'm exposing you the day after you don't" Ninja could respond by 1) Killing the Mouth, but then he would get killed himself loosing the game 2) Feeding the DT incorrect information. But the DT could just ask for Night Kills 3) Following the DT and hope the other ninjas would die soon They could play normally, however, it's more of a game of how much risk is the ninja willing to take. A little risk could make the Ninja invincible with another pair of eyes. As for ruining the game. Here's my diagram + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc205/laststandb/Ninja.gif) NOTES: Assume that Pyrr is a Ninja, and there is only 3 in the town. Pyrr will be killed night one, so there will be only 2 Ninjas. I doubt any ninja would actually kill him. They would investigate him first. I also don't see why people are even worrying about the ninjas that much at this point. The only other game I've played with them, when I was mafia, the only people who were really saying anything about them in the thread were the mafia themselves. I feel like we should look at the people who are doing this. The reason that mafia do this is because it gives them a truthful statement about wanting to "out a scummy slot", because ninjas are in fact non-town, and by trying to out them, the mafia look pro-town. If you are town, then, and are discussing this, stop. Start trying to find reds. Pyrrhuloxia imo wouldn't have been playing the way he was if he was red, which is why I haven't voted for him. DTA, though, maybe. I might change my vote to him. On August 06 2010 22:29 LSB wrote: And I am against Roleclaim. Their's no way we can keep track of who would lie. And I would assume that Blue Roles would lie to. Cause a role claim is a great way to give a 'who to hit' list to the mafia. So I would assume the final count of the role-claim would be 30 townies, not very helpful I agree with lying if you're a certain blue. If you're the veteran, you should say you're a role you'd want to be hit in the night. This normally would be a great strategy, but less so in this game. I dislike how in the past few games I've played in multiple roles have multiple night lives. This really inhibits the plan that I would use as a veteran, so I don't know what to do. What we should do going forward is try to get our watcher and stalker to coordinate, which is why I wanted people to roleclaim to me in the first place. On August 06 2010 23:14 XeliN wrote: For the record in my brief experience of playing mafia games I know mafia HATE suggestions of mass role claiming, I am far more suspicious of Pyrr's extreme vehemence against the idea than I am of Bills suggestion. Not entirely sure it would work, in truth I havent actually read the post Bill made yet, but just wanted to say Mafia typically hate the idea of town mass roleclaiming, it forces them into a difficult position where they have to be very careful about what they post//claim. Although the fact this is a closed setup (role amounts arn't revealed) makes a mass claim strategy flawed from the outset. Also be dubious of people attempting to cast extreme suspicion on others this early in the game, A good example of such would be: "I think BM is very likely to live for a couple of days, but if things start going downhill he should be somewhere on the top of our hitlists" If more people thought like this, my plan would have been less of a ploy, and an actual strategy. If anything, I was just hoping to know who the tracker was, but I didn't even expect that. On August 06 2010 23:39 KF91 wrote: I believe that this is one of the best ways to start off Day 1; mostly because like it was mentioned before, people do make mistakes and they shouldn't be lynched right away because of a single mistake they made on Day 1. Plus it promotes involvement, but I'm sure everyone's heard this countless times already. From what I know of BM, this is classic BM to me (Although the last game I played with him was XXII, so things could have changed.). He promotes some weird plan and the town attacks him. He ends up being Godfather. But from what I can remember, he also pushes plans like these when he's a townie as well. From BM's point of view, this is just a trap for the mafia, because although it would be harder for the town to sift through all the liars in a mass-role claim, it would be harder for the mafia to organize who would claim as what. Um, hi? If you have time, feel free to type more, since an "activity-check" post won't save you from getting lynched forever. From what I see, bad plan. So much risk for the town while the mafia has to give a small effort to make sure that the town is screwed over. - If mafia roleclaims as a blue, this plan won't work period. - If a real blue does roleclaim, but the bus driver buses the wrong person, we could hit another blue (Perhaps one of out DTs or medics) - The mafia has power-roles that could turn this plan onto the town and the town could be lynching townies on Day 2/3 depending on if this plan is actually implemented. IMO, single roleclaims=bad at any point of the game. Or actually, any type of roleclaims; while it may prove useful to the town, it will always help mafia in killing blues. I disagree since we have a watcher and stalker/tracker. We can use these roles to confirm the tracker with a single roleclaim. On August 07 2010 07:15 DarthThienAn wrote: + Show Spoiler + On August 06 2010 22:28 LSB wrote: A bit of a late reply, but some of us sleep My Big Ninja Post Okay, I skimmed through XXII In XXII there were 4 assassins The first assassin got killed on the first day due to inactivity The 2nd and Third assassins got killed by other assassins on night 2. So from older games, the assassin's biggest danger are other assassins I agree with your Mafia Analysis, but not your Town analysis. The Ninja could get Medic protection, and DT help. Just remember, the Ninja obviously won't just say 'hullo' to a random townie. The Ninja would try to find a DT/Medic As for your Ninja caught by DT analysis, you misunderstood what I was trying to say. The Ninja caught by DT plan isn't one about working together, it's about the DT keeping the Ninja on a short least Here's how it would work out 1) DT identifies Ninja 2) DT contacts Ninja through a mouth, threatens Ninja. Says "You better work with me or I'm exposing you the day after you don't" Ninja could respond by 1) Killing the Mouth, but then he would get killed himself loosing the game 2) Feeding the DT incorrect information. But the DT could just ask for Night Kills 3) Following the DT and hope the other ninjas would die soon They could play normally, however, it's more of a game of how much risk is the ninja willing to take. A little risk could make the Ninja invincible with another pair of eyes. As for ruining the game. Here's my diagram + Show Spoiler + NOTES: Assume that Pyrr is a Ninja, and there is only 3 in the town. Pyrr will be killed night one, so there will be only 2 Ninjas. With the ninja allying with town thing, basically, the medic would be trading their services for the ninja's services..but the ninja could just lie and get protection. So it's not in the interest of the medic to do that. The DT can't control the ninja... he has no power. He has no way of guaranteeing that he'll live to out the ninja. The ninja can hit him whenever he feels like it. The only way is to PM someone else, and even then, you're sacrificing a DT for a ninja? No. Best to leave the ninjas alone if you're a DT. Hmm. I guess it makes more sense with a mouth. You should have mentioned that before -_-. + Show Spoiler + On August 06 2010 23:39 KF91 wrote: I believe that this is one of the best ways to start off Day 1; mostly because like it was mentioned before, people do make mistakes and they shouldn't be lynched right away because of a single mistake they made on Day 1. Plus it promotes involvement, but I'm sure everyone's heard this countless times already. From what I know of BM, this is classic BM to me (Although the last game I played with him was XXII, so things could have changed.). He promotes some weird plan and the town attacks him. He ends up being Godfather. But from what I can remember, he also pushes plans like these when he's a townie as well. From BM's point of view, this is just a trap for the mafia, because although it would be harder for the town to sift through all the liars in a mass-role claim, it would be harder for the mafia to organize who would claim as what. Um, hi? If you have time, feel free to type more, since an "activity-check" post won't save you from getting lynched forever. From what I see, bad plan. So much risk for the town while the mafia has to give a small effort to make sure that the town is screwed over. - If mafia roleclaims as a blue, this plan won't work period. - If a real blue does roleclaim, but the bus driver buses the wrong person, we could hit another blue (Perhaps one of out DTs or medics) - The mafia has power-roles that could turn this plan onto the town and the town could be lynching townies on Day 2/3 depending on if this plan is actually implemented. IMO, single roleclaims=bad at any point of the game. Or actually, any type of roleclaims; while it may prove useful to the town, it will always help mafia in killing blues. And from what I know about BM, he has the potential to play like an idiot both when he is mafia and townie. So I don’t judge based on playstyle, I judge based on what has happened in THIS game. And his plan is retarded, hence my voting for him. He still hasn’t offered any reasoning as to why this would ever be a good plan. And if it’s a trap, then it’s not a very good one, as no one is going to agree with it, and he’s not even trying to pretend like he agrees with it. Lol, is it my fault that I don’t want the town to screw itself over? I have no guarantees about anyone’s intelligence here. Example: Bill Murray. fuck you. I have a 135 IQ and got a 29 on my ACT. Anyways, my plan is this: Have the tracker claim in the thread, to me, or to someone we as a collective agree upon. Have him call his shot. Afterwards, the watcher will watch the tracker and see who he visited. Bam. We have a confirmed slot. | ||
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
On August 07 2010 06:43 Incognito wrote: In this case, your calculations were wrong, primarily based on the assumptions of what other people would/should do. Also, there are different degrees to calculated risk. Plans like the one you came up with are huge and can swing the game in either direction. When the range of results is that huge, there will be people who will oppose you. All of this is applicable to what I'm trying to do here Benefits of my plan: a confirmed townie Detriments of my plan: having our tracker potentially killed, or us being confused if he is bus driven Reasons the benefits outweigh the risks: PMs If we can organize a town circle through the tracker (we're going to need our blues to focus on him via medic protection and watching), we can win this game very easily as a town. | ||
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
On August 07 2010 08:12 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: BM: "that's not what i was trying to do here, though, amber. i was trying to create confusion and get information out of the people who would be against roleclaiming (mafia and ninjas)." I am honestly not mafia. I am pro-town, bro. BM: "Do you honestly believe I expected a single person to actually roleclaim to me?" Excuse me, but you are assuming that asking for them in the thread and expecting to get them out of the thread are the same thing. They're not. Sorry. If I ever really wanted a claim, I would make it public, so we could lynch someone who is lying. BM: " I did, but it was through a PM, not in the thread. Why would I ever do that in the thread?" Exactly, so I sort of give myself away that I would want it public if anything. If everyone honestly roleclaimed to me as a blue, though, we would win the game. Do I expect people to believe me? No. I would find them idiots for doing that. I am not mafia, so I don't really care, but I was just going over possibilities and trying to get a reaction out of people by posting some sort of content on a mediocre day 1. BM: "I'm willing to back off of this, because it was a ploy, and now i'm going to help the town in more traditional ways." All for the information. It generates discussion. I actually like confirming a townie, so I disagree with you, but the fact that I'm exploring possibilities instead of being negative and a policy driven nazi that stifles discussion and creativity... BM: "Anyways, my plan is this: Have the tracker claim in the thread, to me, or to someone we as a collective agree upon. Have him call his shot. Afterwards, the watcher will watch the tracker and see who he visited. Bam. We have a confirmed slot." There won't be multiple trackers, I disagree. There is no inconsistency depending on my role. Good for you, man, you might be smarter than me. I'm glad your IQ is that high. Since it is that high, are you in MENSA? If you are not, why not? That is above a 140, which should enable you to be in that. | ||
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
On August 07 2010 09:05 BrownBear wrote: lajarse could possibly be scum, but let's get everyone talking before we make a concrete decision. We still need to hear from Roffles and a couple others. This post is scummy as fuck. I am keeping it separate from my other posts to make it be read again | ||
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
On August 07 2010 12:07 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: Everyone can claim to watcher and tracker if the plan goes well regardless of whether or not BM is involved. Choosing someone high-profile like BM just makes it more likely that it will get fucked with. If BM is GF, Your plan is to kill off everyone that claims vet, after forcing all vets to claim? Whether BM is GF or real vet that plan sucks. I'll vote double lynch tomorrow if BM flips red. Otherwise I don't know who to go after and I don't think we will tomorrow. Day 2 double lynch is usually bad for town - I don't think this game is different. If I knew BM would be lynched today I'd vote double lynch but this is still up in the air. how the fuck am i not involved it was my idea in the first place to utilize these 2 roles which is totally pro town but ok you're not a good lynch keep convincing everyone of that, pyrrhuloxia | ||
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
On August 07 2010 12:47 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: Yeah, I can guarantee you 99.99% he's red and so I'd rather just see him go today *shrug*. Can't be too lynch-inducing when he's already out of the noose thanks to SouthRawrea's change (not necessarily fosing SR btw). im not fucking red, stfu | ||
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
On August 07 2010 08:13 rastaban wrote: Hmm it almost might would work... What the watcher though doesn't know who is who... the mafia can send their roleblocker or framer that night and now they are listed as verified. at first I thought mafia could hit him but the watcher would get the name of one of the mafia so it wouldn't be beneficial. Hmm I don't straight up disagree it might be an option but needs thought out a little more... Anyone else have any thoughts on this? lol i like this idea, but i don't know if it will work. On August 07 2010 08:33 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: KT 4-0 4-1 4-2 4-3 3-4 2-4 1-4 0-4 My unbiased and fun-inducing plan for determining THIS GUY: Roffles (4-2 Either Team) Hesmyrr (KT 4-3 SKT1) (KT 4-1 SKT1) Artanis[xp] (KT 3-4 SKT1) (KT 1-4 SKT1) They posted at least a bit so less likey ones here: Laaan (KT 4-0 SKT1) Love1Another (KT 0-4 SKT1) (If love1another gets lynched, put this on Laaan) I guess it's not too guaranteed they will die for being THIS GUY since mafia can just send roleblocker or framer so we don't need to pick from inactives but I think this will work anyway. by saying this guy and not that guy, are you implying you're kicking it as his place? On August 07 2010 08:41 Pandain wrote: Some new things I've thought about since the power went out for like 5 minutes: 1.If we do get this circle going, shoudl the tracker/watcher claim publically? Then we could get people to even possibly roleclaim to them. And get medics protecting them and the such. The only problem I see with this is if they then get shot or the such, but with medics idk. Or if the mafia false claims, but then both the watcher and tracker can go together and say "No, we both agree we're blue." The mafia could risk 2 red, but I would view that as a reasonable trade and even a dt check or so could straighten things out. 2. Don't really see the need to pick a specific person, just anyone imo. But yeah, let's do it for the Proleague finals. > I'm all for this too. SKT hwaiting? Where's my SKiTten flamewheel? REALLY liking the discussion between Foolishness and Pyrrhuloxia at the end of page 23 and the beginning of page 24. One of them is mafia, I guarantee it. I'd go all in on that. On August 07 2010 09:28 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: Well you will probably kill me tonight, so I will post all my info anyway, mafia number 2. You are my favorite player in all of TL Mafia, at least when you are town-aligned, so I am disappointed to see your red play be so obvious. You've now chainsaw defended Bill Murray against both Divinek and myself. Now, if Bill Murray flips blue, I will certainly not run roughshod after you and the rest of his sketchy defenders and defendees. But if he flips red, which seems EXTREMELY likely to me at this point, your ass is grass and killing me won't save you. This is an old as play, and it only works when Foolishness is town-aligned, which he is not. He or you are red. I'm not sure which. I'm staying out of your little sissy argument, Pyrrhuloxia. I'll watch you guys fight, sorry, don't try to bring me into this. On August 07 2010 12:53 Pandain wrote: I adapted mine from BM's plan where he said both watcher and tracker can RC to him. Than I said what if they just both track an anonymous person. Don't see what it would mean anyway :/ I wanted the tracker to claim in thread, honestly, regardless of what I said. He could call his shot, and watch who he said he was going to watch. Vigilantes and Ninjas wouldn't want to be outed day one. He could then get medic protected, and the watcher could watch him. On August 07 2010 13:18 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: Would be nice if BM could tell us what he is or comment on the plan. I can tell you what i'm not! --- Red. More than you can say. On August 07 2010 13:20 Divinek wrote: Heyy Pyrr! Pandain! since you're among the two dudes actually reading the thread whaddya think? it's an UPDATE on my larjarse + Show Spoiler + hey lets look at larjarse's latest posts! On August 07 2010 01:54 larjarse wrote: TBH rastaban is also looking quite suspicious. He is trying to do so much planning as a townie. I WANT THE MAN DEAD retarded spam On August 07 2010 02:11 larjarse wrote: Valid point, rastaban. I am just G checking you to get some text.. As you can see, I haven't change my vote. retarded spam On August 07 2010 01:50 larjarse wrote: LOLing that noone said anything about this. And once he proclaimed that he is a townie, he was voted by rastaban and chaoser. Suspiciousssoo blah blah blah it's been said before On August 06 2010 15:04 larjarse wrote: Can you stop talking about previous games? It kind of ruins the fun. spammmmm On August 06 2010 14:57 larjarse wrote: I would say BillMurray's concern about not being randomly voted to be killed justifies that he probably isn't a Townie. what the fuck does this even mean? lol it loosk like a reason without a reason On August 06 2010 14:44 larjarse wrote: BTW this leaves BillMurray and divinek tied at 3 votes each. blah blah we can all read dude ok you're getting my vote until you actually fucking post some content On August 07 2010 12:00 larjarse wrote: Divinek saying I spam spam spam on pg 23: This is my first game. You also excluded my posts that had content. So vote me if you please and calm down your e rage, bro. I voted BM becauese I instinctively feel like he's up to no good. If he's actually good, then oh well, it was a 1/6 chance anyways and it's only the first day. Many can sit here and theroize why people posted what and everthing, but you probably aren't going to know who anyone is today. Pyrrhuloxia United States. August 07 2010 10:12. I think we should be suspicious of people who defend others so early.. I agree! Divinek again targeting me on pg 25: speaking of which lets have a look at some inactive or people that have posted basically nothing thus far 1)lasjarles(or whatever) !!! And the roleblocker/framer can change the entire story. Divinek seems sure that BM is going to be watched tonight and is posting his expected results to further defend BM and thus fuck over the town if he is actually scum. So lets lynch him, and see what happens. Reading more bickering yadda yadda.. Okay lets just lynch BM and see what happens. Okey? Ok. Then maybe DivineK. since he posted a big post ill summarize my feelings of what he said here 1)he said i neglected his content posts, i quoted ALL of his posts (well okay not all i skipped two at the start that were one liners of stupid spam that everyone was doing at the time since the game JUST started so i figured they just fit in so they didnt count, but i assure you they are spam!), so he's lying LoL lets get to that later though 2) he says something we have already discussed at lenght long after that post was made, so his post is pointless rehashing of what we've covered 3) He really wants to lynch bm just to see what happens? Thanks for not helping town! Not, you look reaaaaaaaaaaaaaal bad buddy i dare someone to say he's been useful to town in anyway so far, can someone give me a reason not to vote for him? other people should read it too but i just wanted their attention extra special The attention seeking Divinek does in this post comes across as very pro-town to me. Also, why are we lynching someone who is going to be town and modkilled anyways? Let's just lynch Pyrrhuloxia or Foolishness because of pages 23/24... at least we get information that way as to which of them was mafia. | ||
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
you need to drop that | ||
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
what we need is the tracker to claim, in thread, who they are going to track. | ||
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
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Bill Murray
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Anyone who is against this is probably mafia | ||
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
i can't believe noone had even discussed this. everyone was wanting to waste our vig or trade a busdriver for a red or a ninja and that is just plain stupid | ||
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
if anything, your plan is like my plan, except it is worse because it risks a lot of blues potentially, whereas mine risks one. respond to why we should lay all our cards out on the table when there are roleblockers, framers, and ninjas lurking out there, and convince me, and i'll back off. i want this whole planning stage to end, really, so we can start scumhunting | ||
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