TL Mafia XXVIII - Page 9
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youngminii
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youngminii
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youngminii
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youngminii
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youngminii
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youngminii
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On July 24 2010 15:31 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Do you not realize how pm circles work? He is the direct contact of a "dt" who would be working with the contact of another dt, etc.. If hes red, two people pm him seperately with contacts, he can get info quite easily once you know who someone is. Offs them. If red, his DT is actually non existant. He could be GF who got checked dt went "hurr most likely legit what gf would choose hatter" and gave info, and then ends up getting filtered (as he's still the voice of his dt) so he still gets fed info from the other dt via a chain. HE still ends up in a better position. You would get tops of one red, for however many confirmed blues/greens you give him + names of circles to snipe. It bewilders me that this is lost on you when he can easily prove his case while maintaining the circle he wants to create. Can you pay attention for a minute? I'm saying that he gives the second DT group the name of the original DT. The second DT group can confirm with the DT that citi.zen claims is DT. If he does claim, then it's guaranteed that either citi.zen + DT are both scum or citi.zen + DT are both town. Information such as 'this guy is blue' won't be given out (until maybe later in the game where it's pretty much confirmed that the groups are real), only 'this guy is not red' would be passed around. We would get tops of TWO reds and he doesn't get any blue information until later. I can't believe you don't see this, it's blatantly obvious. | ||
youngminii
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Town KP role should definitely claim. | ||
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On July 24 2010 15:49 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Your also assuming that his DT is fine with his name being passed along to until they can confirm eachother an unconfirmed "dt" which leads into possible mafia faking dt to get his info. So instead of bagging two red, a dt can still die. Your idea also has its problems. Yes I am assuming that his DT is fine. Please think logically, why would citi.zen's trust circle have any problems dealing with the second trust circle? If there's only one trust circle that approaches citi.zen then it's guaranteed that they're town. Only something like what you're doing where you try and get the second group NOT to claim to citi.zen hampers this theory. If two trust circles approach citi.zen then he can decide what to do from there. | ||
youngminii
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youngminii
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On July 24 2010 09:48 youngminii wrote: My case on Chaoser. + Show Spoiler + Let us delve into the mind of scum. The pattern for a normal, general scum that doesn't go out of his way to do anything out of the ordinary is quite simple. Lay low on the first day or two and slowly come out with accusations. Be very careful of jumping on bandwagons as it may arouse suspicion. Rather than openly coming out and making a case on someone on the first day/two, try to find someone that is making a fool of themselves and make a small case to see if it gains momentum. I think we can all agree that this is a standard way of playing as scum, keeps the suspicion low while still contributing information. Now let us look at chaoser's early game. One of his first posts is to abstain. This vote does not change for the entire day. Fits perfectly in line with my 'lay low' theory, especially (as the wonderful Pandain pointed out) as chaoser was so against my 'no lynch' strategy. One would have to wonder why he didn't simply vote for someone if he was so against it. He raises the counter argument that voting to abstain is different from voting to no lynch, which is a moot point in my opinion really. I think it's less about the days and more about the fact that we get tons of information from looking at vote lists Cool, chaoser wants information from voting lists on the first day. In fact, he even points this out to the public. So why does he not vote for anyone? Oh right, abstaining doesn't label you as 'against' someone. Good stuff in my opinion, I'd probably do it too if I was scum. So up until early Day 2, chaoser continues to bring in a wealth of information (such as the voting history of certain people etc.) but doesn't actually accuse anyone. All he does is make some accusatory comment that doesn't really have any flair to it. See below. chaoser to BB: So basically you just said: "lawl, i messed up/made a mistake but oh well, not going to change." Anyone else find that suspicious? So early on in Day 2, after a small group of people (Divinek, DTA and Amber[light]) already vote for BB, chaoser joins in and mounts a small case against BB. + Show Spoiler + And to be truthful, I don;t really believe that BrownBear is townie just from the way he's posting. For the first day he pretty much posts nothing and bandwagons with no real reason. When people point him out of it (that he voted before reading) he goes oh well, it doesn't matter now when it CLEARLY did, the vote ended 6-5. Then, after a whole DAY of people pointing fingers at him he decides to come in and post about vets claiming and basically giving horrible advice. I'm inclined to say he's mafia who fucked up the first day and now he's trying to play dumb townie. Also, his whole ramble about claiming is pushing us off the topic of Subversion's suspicious vote as well as his little statement about how mafia isn't really making mistakes. I'm not 100% clear on my vote yet but I'm watching BrownBear for now. And I also think we should vote double lynch. It's going to be 52 hours till the next lynch give or take, you guys don't think we'll have more than enough information then? After a page or two a LOT of people jump on the bandwagon. It's uncanny. Chaoser realises that if BB is lynched and he flips town then things will look bad for him, so he switches his vote to Subversion, another bandwagon being formed at the time. It's funny, after using that argument against BB he immediately switches to Subversion after seeing the possibility that he might be labeled as mafia (note: someone actually said that the '3rd/4th person on the bandwagon tends to be mafia' and could have affected chaoser's thoughts). The argument he uses against Subversion is one that has already gained traction from BC/Protractinium and so it's easy to ride with. Pandain then mounts an argument against chaoser, who responds by responding to each and every point. I believe they continue this argument via PM and sort it out there and Pandain drops his case on chaoser (I attribute this to Pandain being new to this game and not being very good at picking out lies/deceit etc.). Anyway, what does chaoser do now? Of course, he abstains. Oh, the joy of not really voting for anyone. A common trait of mafia is that they won't contribute too much in the accusations etc. early on. They will however, try and 'appear' to be useful by posting stuff that doesn't really cause them any risk in any way (ie. pointing at someone of being scum). They will often side with someone else or pick on a player that seems to be causing a ruckus which won't be seen as suspicious. In addition to this, scum will go to great lengths to defend themselves. Think about it (directed at newer players), if you are scum you are much more willing to come back to this thread and try to shake off any accusations against you. This is why RVS is quite helpful in smaller games. Often scum will 'lurk' meaning they'll browse around, read everything but won't post too much in order to stay under the radar. However, accusing them and voting for them will force them to come out and defend themselves profusely. We can see this in DTA, he was town and everyone started voting for him. He didn't reply in the thread for a looooooong time (I actually pointed this out but I was ignored /yay), indicating that he was in fact, not lurking but actually AWOL, which is a townie trait. Chaoser falls into the above mafia category. He immediately comes out of his 'useful/informative' shell and starts defending himself a LOT. His posts start becoming a lot of the 'discussion' going on. This continues for a long time, only defending himself and never accusing anyone asides from the occasional "your arguments are weak, why are you trying to get me lynched so bad? Are you scum?" type of argument. Now it's actually really painful to go through skimming page by page but the general trend I see right now is that a lot of people start jumping on the chaoser bandwagon. It's funny, he votes for DTA because he's getting a lot of votes for him. He then states: From reading this, I'll change my vote to Subversion even though that means I'll 100% die. Darth, if you wanna help me, you could switch it over too and I think he'll be first. ##unvote ##vote Subversion Look at this from a scum perspective. He knows DTA is town. He knows that if DTA is lynched then he'll get an even worse image than before. So what does he do? He tries to side with DTA to lynch someone else that already has a lot of people voting for him. This is actually a good play by mafia as he had already taken the side of voting for Subversion earlier so if questioned, he could retaliate by saying "I already had my suspicions on Subversion before!" + Show Spoiler + On an unrelated side note, I find it funny how people are so quick to link me to Subversion (tree.hugger especially) because I defended him a bit whilst nobody links me to DTA's town and Hyperbola's town when I actually gave them proper defenses. Quite ridiculous imo. Blah blah DTA ends up getting lynched (one of the final votes by chaoser, although it could be argued that he did it to save himself) and ends up flipping town. I know I've always been wary of chaoser but I'd like everyone to read my analysis of him. I'm not going to analyse Night 3 'cause that was just a big spam fest and lots of people probably have an ill image of me now. I'd just like you all to trust me for once (I was right on hyperbola/DTA even though it doesn't mean anything, yes I know) and vote for chaoser. I would also like to mention that I believe infundlibsuvxkum and chaoser are linked but that discussion can be saved for another time. It's okay tree.hugger, you don't have to read this. You're clearly too good at this game to deal with my incessant postings. | ||
youngminii
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On July 24 2010 16:17 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Because I am 100% certainbased on how hes been playing that if he is legit there is a bomb on me. He has posted more than once that he has suspicions on me, so regardless, I'd die. So if i was scum, no it wouldn't be 3 free kills. You are taking huge leaps of faith whereas you shouldn't be in a position where if hes mafia, town loses. The tiny holes you are describing are actually quite large and I gave a plan to fix said hole, and instead people are wanting to take everything in faith, very scary concept in mafia. IF a DT claimed he would have to offer a red, a vig would have to claim his shot and be willing to die to prove it/be checked, etc... The fact your expectations of a hatter in a much more sensitive spot doesn't meet the same standard is just odd. My leaps of faith do not put us in a situation where if he's mafia town loses. I told you time and time again there's no loss for town if citi.zen is scum. You are the one taking leaps of faith saying "100% certain there's a bomb on me" and you seem to believe in all these little holes. They're not large, it's not town loss if citi.zen is scum and why would you want to off yourself (if you're so sure citi.zen has a bomb)? 3 lives is a huge price to pay just to check citi.zen. This is quite suspicious. | ||
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On July 24 2010 16:26 tree.hugger wrote: What did I even say about you? My post was a comment on the two votes in quick succession to lynch South. Not everything is about you. On July 24 2010 16:04 tree.hugger wrote: Mafia have been posting, they always do, and we should be able to find them based on evidence, not lack of evidence. Not that I don't think southrawrea could easily be mafia, but I want to lynch someone who is active and who has people attached to him. | ||
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I have an even better plan than your 'kill 3 people to confirm 1 DT'. Why can't we get the second DT to just check the proposed DT and citi.zen? Your logic seems like that of one who's grasping at straws. There's absolutely no downside to the plan if citi.zen is scum. We don't need a huge trust circle that is passing on every single bit of information with each other, which wouldn't be optimal even if the DTs were confirmed because of possible GF in the group. We just need a huge trust circle that is passing on the relevant information. | ||
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He gives the DT's name to the groups hence there are 2 scum on the line. What are scum gonna do knowing that this guy is green and that guy is green? It will become extremely obvious later in the game if they are lying, an easy out. DT checking them is always a viable option. 4 night kills for mafia in two nights. 2 hatter kills + hatter death + 2 night kills for mafia in one night. No. | ||
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##Vote SouthRawrea Sorry dude I know it's your first game and all but mafia's gotta be lynched. | ||
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On July 25 2010 03:52 SouthRawrea wrote: So far I've been trying to slip under the radar so I don't get lynched early on or killed at night. I've actually only placed one bomb thus far as I was a little hesitant to kill place two people at risk even if I suspect them. My only one at the moment is on chaoser but that was placed yesterday after seeing that he didn't get lynched. I decided to abstain from placing a second bomb because of the first vote placed on me by Bumat... I felt threatened. :/ ## Vote Citizen for now SouthRawr false claims. He is under heavy scrutiny and has barely participated in the game and the scum team knows his usefulness is running out. They make one last attempt to make use of him by agreeing for him to counter claim citi.zen. They also make him say that he placed a bomb no chaoser to try and 'remove' any suspicion on him. Chaoser now goes into a state of bussing as he tries to make the most of the situation. If SouthRawr gets lynched, chaoser will come out looking innocent, if he doesn't get lynched, chaoser's rep remains the same. If he IS bomber like he says he is, it'll just be me and him dying. That gives a lot of information against me/him such as those who where making a strong case against me/people who ADMITTEDLY jumped on him. If he's mafia, we just killed a mafia, good job, we still can't 100% trust citi.zen since it could be a ploy to sac one mafia to make the other one more trusted. Not saying that I don't trust you citi.zen, I'm just saying that's a possibility. On July 25 2010 05:31 chaoser wrote: We're not saying he's 100% confirmed and that everyone, blue included, should run to him roleclaiming, we're saying you gotta die. I'm fine with dying with you and if you really were town, you wouldn't mind dying. Both of you claimed bomber. There can only be 1 bomber since Tricode said he was vigi. Unless he's lying and both of you are bombers but that means BC is lying too about being hit. Someone HAS to die, either you or citi.zen cause you both claimed. We can get lots of information depending on how you flip. I'd rather you die cause if you ARE red, there's lots of info that would come out of it. If you aren't info still comes out but the better thing is that only TWO people will die, me and you. Citi.zen said he placed both his bombs. That's 3 dead. Let's go to heaven together if you're townie baby. Look at this play: By saying "I'm willing to die with you to confirm citi.zen's bomber claim" he can look 'innocent'. He KNOWS that citi.zen's claim is real and so he puts on this charade to make the most of this situation. This is all assuming SouthRawr is red. What else can we learn from this? I'm only focusing on chaoser's posts in regard to SouthRawr's claim, there's heaps more information that can be analysed. Also, this tells us that the mafia team isn't very organised. A truly organised (pro) mafia team wouldn't do this type of play. It sticks out like a sore thumb and has lots of risks involved. Assuming SouthRawr flips red we can safely assume that there may only be one or no 'pro' players in the mafia team. So I implore you, vote SouthRawr as it will give us the most information, more so than lynching citi.zen. I also implore you to double lynch as it will be the most beneficial after this shitstorm. ##Vote Double Lynch | ||
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