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On July 03 2010 02:01 DarthThienAn wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2010 01:51 YellowInk wrote:
I think that is functional except you have to put recruitment before detective. You said that the DT would get post recruiting info. And even though you made a list separation, coroner is last, yes? Thanks, this is helpful. Uh, what? If a DT got recruited, I would still send him/her the results of the check for that night. After that, no more DT powers.
Ohhhhh. lol. Just read my thing on a DT at the beginning. Hmmmm.... Well THAT'S complicated. I guess, for the sake of consistency, I'll put the DT after recruitment.
Coroner...well actually, Coroner is technically before recruitment. Coroner would not know whether or not he/she was recruited the night he/she chose to activate. Like, the general idea here is that nobody's decision-making for night actions should be influenced by that night's recruitment. However, their results may be changed, based on the recruitment.
Show nested quote +On July 03 2010 01:53 YellowInk wrote:
Also, roleblock and jailkeep can conflict - I assume if they do that the roleblock gets priority. I don't think you intended jailkeep to be an unroleblockable role. Right, roleblocker would stop a jailkeep. my bad.
Updated.
Roleblocker
Jailkeeper
Detective / Mad Hatter (set bombs)
Coroner
Godfather's recruitment
Detective results
Mafia Hit
Mad Hatter Hit (if applicable)
Others:
Dream Catcher: does not apply.
Veteran: passive, but with a Jailkeeper, he wouldn't lose any lives.
Hope this is right now T_T.
Doesn't coroner have to be at the very end? It happens after mafia hits (and so may as well happen after mad hatter hits)? Delete detective from the Detective / Mad Hatter (set bombs) line and I think we're all set.
At least you can see why I wanted some clarification. Recruitment makes things messy.
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Knowing the criteria behind Chezinu (or in fact anyone's) lynch list would indeed be nice. Considering it's nature, I am more interested in the people he chose to leave behind: zeks, Thegilaboy, Bill Murray, DCLXVI, ElyAs, and BrowneY.
BrowneY is no-brainer for moment, but I am wondering why you do not ElyAs lynch? Are you willing to propose 'an' alternative lynch candidate that town can choose to go behind?
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The reason that Detective and Coroner are both listed where they are is that there actions happen even if they get recruited or killed that night. The results just comeback when the night ends.
So if the DT gets killed but he investigated the GF that night, he would still know who the GF was and could finger him with his death claim.
At least this is how I understand it to work.
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People that need vote to not get modkilled:
L
DCLXVI
ElyAs
Browney (exception, may replace/remove)
YellowInk, Coroner using his action is before recruitment. The result (my post) is of course at the very very end of the night.
And Detective != Detective results. Detective is supposed to be the Detective performing his action, ie. "Check DarthThienAn plz" vs me saying "DarthThienAn is Kira / Lover." (with Misa of course ^^ - clarification, no I would not reveal the name of the other lover. It's a joke.)
So, one final time I hope:
+ Show Spoiler +
Roleblocker
Jailkeeper
Detective (ask) / Mad Hatter (set bombs)
Coroner (activate)
Godfather's recruitment
Detective (results)
Mafia Hit
Mad Hatter (Hit, if applicable)
Coroner (post from me)
Others:
Dream Catcher: does not apply.
Veteran: passive, but with a Jailkeeper, he wouldn't lose any lives.
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Ok, so if a coroner goes off it will not show any information about anyone who was killed on that night (because it happens before hits). This conflicts with the coroner OP. That also covers my question about coroner/recruit/hit in the same night interaction.
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Just thought of an idea: if all the blues role claim besides the dreamcatcher, then when a blue gets recruited, the dreamcatcher can roleclaim and report what power s/he acquired and we catch a mafioso immediately. This works because there is almost certainly only one dreamcatcher (with two, it would get confusing who acquires what powers).
Now the normal dangers of roleclaiming would come with this, but I just wanted to throw this idea out. Also, if we have for example two detectives, we wouldn't know which one was recruited.
A modification of the idea could be that only the most powerful blues role claim, so if mafia are tempted to recruit them, they'll be caught by the dreamcatcher, but vets/mason are still a threat to mafia.
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On July 03 2010 02:40 YellowInk wrote:
Ok, so if a coroner goes off it will not show any information about anyone who was killed on that night (because it happens before hits). This conflicts with the coroner OP. That also covers my question about coroner/recruit/hit in the same night interaction.
no, no, no.
Things related to the Coroner specifically:
Roleblock -> roleblock on Coroner = no powers.
Activation = (plz reveal in morning Darths)
Recruitment = (heyo, U is Mafioza nows)
Hits (Mafia, MH) = dead pplz. If Coroner dies and power was activated, I still post.
Post by me, including all dead pplz from that night.
Also, another clarification that I edited into the OP, but not here. The recruited mafia for that night will not have a say in that night's kill. So the decision for the hit happens before recruitment, but the actual hit would happen after the recruitment.
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But if all blues roleclaim doesn't that give mafia perfect information? Wouldn't that be a far worse thing?
And obviously if it does catch on reds are going to roleclaim as well and things are just going to get more cluster fucked.
Besides the main flaw in that strategy is a dream catcher doesnt fill in the role of the person recruited it's
" But if any blue role gets recruited by the mafia, you will be given a random blue role (Detective, Jailkeeper, Mad Hatter, Veteran, Roleblocker, or Coroner)."
So that wouldn't tell you at all who got recruited...
That or I'm not understanding how this would actually work and you're relying far too much on people not doing stupid shit
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On July 03 2010 02:42 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:
Just thought of an idea: if all the blues role claim besides the dreamcatcher, then when a blue gets recruited, the dreamcatcher can roleclaim and report what power s/he acquired and we catch a mafioso immediately. This works because there is almost certainly only one dreamcatcher (with two, it would get confusing who acquires what powers).
Now the normal dangers of roleclaiming would come with this, but I just wanted to throw this idea out. Also, if we have for example two detectives, we wouldn't know which one was recruited.
A modification of the idea could be that only the most powerful blues role claim, so if mafia are tempted to recruit them, they'll be caught by the dreamcatcher, but vets/mason are still a threat to mafia.
.....
Okay, are you truly suggesting mass roleclaim for the sake of catching one mafioso? First, if one PR (rightfully so) disagrees with your plan and do not claim, everything burns down in panic and confusion. What do we do with the roles that are more than one? Your plan only lynches one recruited mafia- however, because Godfather is alive and fine, the net consequence is that mafia does not suffer any damage while town takes 2 PR damage (1 NK and 1 recruit) with all the blues vulnerable now.
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Hm, I think I have found the source of the confusion.
None of my questions were about order of submission of actions. They were entirely about order of resolution of actions. All actions get submitted throughout the night. Then you resolve them in an order by some given criteria. I want to know this order of resolution.
Coroner I assumed to happen at least after hits since the OP states that it covers the night's deaths. But consider that we'll see different results depending on if recruitment happens before or after hits/coroner.
hits
coroner
recruit
=> if recruit was on the hit townie, the coroner will show townie
recruit
hits
coroner
=> if recruit was on the hit townie, the coroner will show mafia
Another example is ordering of DT interaction. All that matters is order of resolution.
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also the mafia can kill, not just recruit. So now they kill the coroner and recruit the jailer, who does dream catcher get? say he gets jailer so we lynch jailer. the second night the new jailer gets killed and the roleblocker recruited. We just traded 5 blues for 1 mafia this is not a valid plan.
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The dream catcher gets a random role not the lost role.
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that was in response to A5Js idea but I got majorly ninja'd
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We really have to catch the GF though, even if we could lynch the new mafia 100% every day we would still lose since wouldn't ever catch the GF. Until he is dead killing mafia only delays the inevitable.the weird thing is that if we knew we had a mafia we would be better off roleblocking them and randomly lynching someone else since it would give us better odds on the GF.
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ah, my fault, misread the dreamcatcher role. there goes that idea.
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YellowInk, resolutions:
Recruitment
DT
Hits
Coroner
Is that clear then? Yes, Coroner would reveal any dead recruits from that night.
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On July 03 2010 02:57 rastaban wrote:
We really have to catch the GF though, even if we could lynch the new mafia 100% every day we would still lose since wouldn't ever catch the GF. Until he is dead killing mafia only delays the inevitable.the weird thing is that if we knew we had a mafia we would be better off roleblocking them and randomly lynching someone else since it would give us better odds on the GF.
the hard part is it'd be perfectly fine for the gf to scum hunt almost as hard as we are. Obviously it wouldn't be a hunt for him, but if all he has to do to keep attention off him self is provide more 'evidence' against someone he knows is a recruit of his (obviously without slipping because if heprovides too much fabricated proof he might give himself up). Then all the better because he only needs to be keeping 1 mafia alive a night to keep the killing/recruiting rolling
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On July 03 2010 03:02 DarthThienAn wrote:
YellowInk, resolutions:
Recruitment
DT
Hits
Coroner
Is that clear then? Yes, Coroner would reveal any dead recruits from that night.
Yes, thanks. I think that covers everything.
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That clears up quite a bit of things :D
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Also since it should be beneficial to pick a candidate for roleblock before day ends, let me actively try to start an discussion: given a choice, should we choose to roleblock someone suspected of Mafia (blocks NK) or Godfather (blocks recruitment)?
Obviously Korynne's plan hinges on getting Mafia goon so we have some semblance of control over night death, but I rather like the idea of trying to roleblock Godfather too, since the # of successful recruitments he get off before dying is critical to the game's fate. Moreover by not shying away from RBing Godfather we can just choose to roleblock the scummiest player without worrying about details. We just need to remember in such case kill occurring in night does not necessarily mean the roleblocked player is town.
As for roleblock candidate, I propose rastaban. I first noticed him only because of his frequent vote switch, but I don't think this is that bad chocie at all. He is fairly active in the game, but is one of those player who did not attract that much attention of the town, due to YI / Korynne / Bill Murray hogging all the town's spotlight. I would appreciate it if you guys also started talking about who to roleblock (since lynch candidate this point seem to be decided as either ElyAs or Abenson) and why.
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EPT
