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Korynne
Canada990 Posts
Also, I don't think Browney can't be GF, he didn't have access but that doesn't mean Darth can't just give him a list of players and tell him to pick one. xP Granted, it would kinda suck to be Browney if Darth just gave him a list of random people and told him to recruit one. xP So like, meh. I don't think we can say 100% he's not GF, I guess it's more like I wouldn't worry about it too much even if he was. | ||
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
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youngminii
Australia7514 Posts
I don't like the plan at all. It's too mechanical and gives scum too much control over the game. ie. They can choose to recruit the roleblocked, they can choose to NK the roleblocked, they can choose to leave the roleblocked alone and NK someone else, they can choose to not NK anyone at all. We don't get to see the roles of the dead players remember? What are you gonna do if the roleblockers are killed early or recruited early? What are you gonna do if the coroner(s) are killed early or recruited early? I mean if the coroner is recruited and this plan is in effect, we're fucked, scum will know that the coroner is gone but town won't. There's also the possibility of having more than one DT, which will literally HALF our chances of finding the GF. I'm honestly guessing there's at least 2-3 Dream Catchers in this game and one of them will likely become a DT, so even if we have one DT to begin with, we'll hopefully have two later on. There's just way too many variables that the scum can take advantage of with Korynne's plan. That said, I want to reinforce my point that I don't believe that Korynne is scum yet. There's no way in hell she'd be this adamant about a plan that so many people disagree with/are not sure about. It's drawing way too much attention and scum would never in their wildest dreams draw this much attention. If we are going ahead with the RB plan, we might as well 'check' the top player. ##Mafia L | ||
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Korynne
Canada990 Posts
We lynch an inactive/GF looking person today. At night, we roleblock the guy who we vote for in this thread to be the most likely to be mafia. Next day, if no night kills happen, he's on the mafia suspect list, we roleblock him another night. Etc. So if we think someone is GF, lynch them. If we have no good leads, we lynch the people we've roleblocked and prevented night kills for, etc. If we have neither, we go for an inactive. | ||
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
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YellowInk
United States578 Posts
On July 02 2010 05:12 Korynne wrote: This is a good point. The only blue role that goes over to the mafia is the roleblocker. By having it be directed, we'll always know that people can't claim to have been roleblocked unless the mafia got their hands on a roleblocker.I was just pointing out why we shouldn't talk. Because townies are stupid and don't do what they're told unless you spell it out for them 5 times. As I've learned in this game. I think it's a rather safe assumption that we have at least one roleblocker. And I think it's probably safe to say there's not two. Even if there was two, it's not a big deal. I don't think we should be throwing roleblocks all over the place, because they usually screw up normal night actions. So if someone's claiming something but then oh look, it didn't happen, then a roleblocker would have to out themselves to be like, yo, he's cool, I did roleblock him. The whole point is that we're using it as an alternative to lynching the person who we think is most scummy. So if we're not doing this plan, HE WOULD BE DEAD ANYWAY. More importantly than this, it means that we have to convince the town that every single lynch needs to be based ... inactivity, I assume? Or, of course, DT/roleblocking info.I don't think we would start with two DTs either, but even if we do. I think it's more important that we can confirm people as not GF. I disagree with this statement. The DT will not be outting themselves at the finding of scum like in a normal game. They will only finger when they have a godfather or perhaps 2x scum depending on the game situation. A DT 'confirming' someone as not the godfather doesn't mean that they're a bad target for a lynch. It just means they're not the godfather. They could still be scum.This way a detective does not need to reveal himself to confirm people. That keeps our detective hidden! If we had two DTs they'll just spend forever metagaming themselves on whether to check the obvious or someone else. So let's just make it simple, we gain one piece of information per night, guaranteed. Rather than possibly not gaining information if DT is killed. I definitely agree that any dream catcher DTs should be doing their own thing regardless of the plan.Also like I said before, dream catchers who get DT should check people who have not been checked by the DT yet. A much more guaranteed less overlap. In summary, I'm giving the role block plan some consideration to aligning with you. DTs should definitely be left on their own. The consequences of this plan are still much harsher than the gains if we're ever at 0 or 2 roleblockers (whether by design or due to recruiting). | ||
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Korynne
Canada990 Posts
Dream Catcher can also randomly get DT/RB/whatever. Also if you are a blue, roleclaim when you die. This way we know if something happens. Granted, this doesn't help in terms of letting us know when mafia recruits blues, but I guess that's what dream catchers are for. They can decide if they should tell town when they get a role, depending on what happened. Also, mechanical isn't always bad. Sometimes mechanical gives you the best chances to win instead of leaving everything up to chance. Ex. Name claiming helped a lot in RotK, number claiming helped a lot in PYP. Custom games are all about trying to break the mechanisms. Granted, my plan might not be the ideal one, but you shouldn't dismiss something because it's too mechanic. | ||
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Chezinu
United States7463 Posts
Almost Facts: 1. We have lovers 2. Browney is unlikely GF since he has no access to forum 3. If we have masons that claim and then lovers claim afterwards we would temporarily have 5 confirm innocents. If one would count oneself as innocent then finding traitor/recruit/GF from the remaining list would be 3/14 chance. If we take into consideration inactives that will be modkilled the chance of killing mafia would increase more. | ||
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youngminii
Australia7514 Posts
Also, I dislike these mechanical plans at the start of a game because I honestly do believe there are too many things scum can do with it. Later on they become much more effective, especially with lesser inactives and once a lot of recruiting has taken place already. | ||
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
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YellowInk
United States578 Posts
This ability should be used to help generate new momentum in the town. If we have good leads already, this power would generate additional information that we might not be able to act on. Instead use it when we're in a situation that is more stale. The longer this power is held on to, the more powerful it becomes. I definitely would not use it before night 3 under any circumstance. Probably not until at least night 4. Also, just because a DT fingered a godfather and we lynch does not mean that this power needs to be immediately used. Sure, it'd be satisfying to know for sure, but game play only changes somewhat because of it. If we already have a good lead on other scum, it may be more valuable to hold out an additional day. If you were to wait another day and it turns out that it wasn't a godfather, we're still going to lynch the lying DT. | ||
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Korynne
Canada990 Posts
I think that we should either be lynching a) inactive b)someone likely to be GF c) someone very very likely to be mafia. | ||
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youngminii
Australia7514 Posts
I don't think we're going to find someone likely to be GF or scum on D1. | ||
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YellowInk
United States578 Posts
On July 02 2010 09:21 youngminii wrote: The truly inactives will be modkilled. So would we be lynching someone that hasn't posted too much content? I don't think we're going to find someone likely to be GF or scum on D1. Yes. When we say 'inactive' in thread, we mean people who have been posting/voting but not contributing. | ||
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L
Canada4732 Posts
Since it hasn't been discussed extensively, I would like to talk a bit about the coroner role. I would not be surprised if we have at least two of these. For this reason I don't think that any town voting type activation is appropriate. That being said, of course people are going to say 'oh this would be a good time for a coroner'. Use your own judgment. I HIGHLY disagree. We cannot mislynch day 3. Unless we lynch correctly tonight or tomorrow, we need to pop a coroner on night 2, night 3 at the latest. This ability should be used to help generate new momentum in the town. If we have good leads already, this power would generate additional information that we might not be able to act on. Instead use it when we're in a situation that is more stale. The longer this power is held on to, the more powerful it becomes. I definitely would not use it before night 3 under any circumstance. Probably not until at least night 4. Also, just because a DT fingered a godfather and we lynch does not mean that this power needs to be immediately used. Sure, it'd be satisfying to know for sure, but game play only changes somewhat because of it. If we already have a good lead on other scum, it may be more valuable to hold out an additional day. If you were to wait another day and it turns out that it wasn't a godfather, we're still going to lynch the lying DT. Blues that die prior to day 3 should claim if they are an investigative role using the name/eman format. We'll have coroner information to check what role you are. I think that we should either be lynching a) inactive b)someone likely to be GF c) someone very very likely to be mafia. Korynne. This post alone of your has done more than the entire BM/You conversation to make me think you aren't town, but given the numbers I'm still pretty sure you're on our team. Useful content instead!I'd vote for you to get roleblocked for tonight, but like I said roleblocking someone who's top flight essentially gives mafia a worry free recruitment or kill. Since I like your posts most of the time, I'd rather you have a potential jailin'. Out of all the players who I think might have been picked as a target, Hesmyrr's been a bit too quiet. I like him, but I have a feeling he'll rage against being recruited and make it plenty obvious he's switched sides if that happens. Just sayin'. It happens. As for the masons plan; if we're going to do it, now's the time. We've already had 1 shitfit go down between two players that I'm pretty sure are town. I'd rather not have that amplified into day 2 and give a growing scum team a few easy lynch controls in the process. | ||
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Divinek
Canada4045 Posts
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
On July 01 2010 14:53 L wrote: Well, 2 am = sleep time. BM, wut is this. I expect answers tomorrow mornin'. G'night. a wild L-dabeest appears | ||
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
Korynne vs. BM feels a lot like Ace vs. BM from last game... we know how that one turned out. Korynne's playing has been a bit scummy (she held on to her (fundamentally flawed) plan for WAY too long, then latched on to my slightly better idea when it came out, she's spamming up the thread by arguing with BM, she hasn't really been all that helpful), but this play strikes me as more traitor play than mafia play, coming from her. It's possible she is mafia, but she plays a better scum than this, so I'm calling ##Traitor: Korynne for right now. And honestly, traitor isn't worth lynching (yet): once we figure out who they are, we can safely ignore them. I can see arguments for lynching traitor day 1 instead of gambling that we get godfather day 1. Thoughts? People have thrown around Korynne, L, BM, and YellowInk as possible GF or mafia candidates. These guys are the 4 most active players in the thread, I'm less inclined to believe that these guys are, as it would be much easier for a GF to not place him/herself under all this scrutiny, and post just often enough to not be suspicious. By the same token, it's probably not BrowneY, ElyAs, or any of the other inactives (whats up with BrowneY not having access to this thread? Weak.) BM is playing his usual self: scummy, but probably townie. I'm going to say BM: Town for now, and keep an eye on him - if I notice any shift in his playstyle, that will be a good tell that he was recruited. L is active (less active than usual though, wut?), and has given me no cause to doubt him yet. L: Town If you are wondering why I'm being so generous with the town calls, it's because I can: about 85% of us are town. Come Day 2 or 3, I'll be less generous with calling people townies. As far as who I think we should roleblock tonight... I'm leaning either YellowInk (his posting isn't quite up to standard and he's more lurkerish than usual, plus if we're wrong, oh well, it's night 1), or possibly Chez (he's who I would have recruited last night, now that I think about it. He's actually a very devious mafia player, as he just acts normally and everyone dismisses it as normal Chez behavior. It doesn't mean he lives through the game, but it does mean he's a good candidate for early/mid game play. Also, I don't know if this was mentioned before, but in addition to roleblocking someone, we should jail them. The way I see it, Jailing them blocks recruitment, so GF can't touch them. It does NOT block roleblocks, so the roleblock will go through, and then if a mafia member (even a jailed one) is roleblocked, mafia lose their KP. Simple, yet effective. Unless I misread the rules. Thoughts? Finally, it's great that ElyAs posted, but I need moar activite from him before I change my vote, specifically because this day 1 vote is even more of a crapshoot than usual, and I don't want to take a chance on an active player, in case we're wrong. So ElyAs: MOAR ACTIVITY! MOAR! Also, it's wrong to vote for BrowneY. Dude can't even read the thread yet, give him a break. | ||
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