EPTGodfather Mafia - Page 2
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Each of us should vote for 3 people we think we should roleblock. Out of the top 3 candidates, the roleblocker himself selects one and tells no one of his choice. In doing this, the threat of the easy lynch/recruitment is lessened, and mafia can't decide to frame people by selectively opting for no-hits. The only issue is that on day 3 we'd need the roleblocker to come out and say what's goin on, but day 3 is already our do or die day. We can switch the jailer to him perpetually thereafter if there is no counter claim. There's a 1/8 chance, or so, that the roleblocker is recruited prior to that point, but given how the coroner works and how mafia can manipulate their own hits, I don't see a superior alternative. That said, I'd be very accomodating to tossing yellowink into the first pool of 3. Better then killing a potentially good player. | ||
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On July 03 2010 10:13 rastaban wrote: What about for lynch, Abenson is getting close to lynch, and I don't think we have any eveidence to support that since he has started speaking up. He posted on page 31 or so. He's generally really bad, so between him and a player I'm not 100% certain about, I'd probably choose him. | ||
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On July 03 2010 10:22 citi.zen wrote: Wait, wouldn't this defeat the whole purpose here? If we're chain blocking the same person twice, there's no action that needs to be taken on a no-hit night before day 3 anyways. Don't see how this defeats the purpose, but feel free to tell me. | ||
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On July 03 2010 10:24 DarthThienAn wrote: Thoughts? Continue playing Lufia 2, or scramble up a pretty Lynch post? Lufia 2. Do the 100 floor dungeon. Kill the boss slime. Gives us time to chat. | ||
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By contrast, mafia can also recruit someone who is being roleblocked without the mafia team being locked down, so any information we get is bullshit. I really don't see how TELLING mafia how to psyche us out over by giving them highly exploitable information is going to help us out. | ||
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On July 03 2010 10:40 citi.zen wrote: The requirement we give up the RB is what I dislike with the modified plan. It could be bad in many cases - we kill a red, block them, etc. I don't buy the "day three or bust" claim. Also, should the rb die or be recruited we learn... nothing at all. Finally, pl,acing three in the "pool" implies we don't lynch them nights one or two - which I would rather not commit to. Sorry for spelling, on phone. Well we sure as hell can't lynch them night 1 as is, and we already committed to not lynching them immediately under the old plan. We aren't giving up the RB at all, either. It just becomes less exploitable. If the RB doesn't pull up a mafia, and chances are it won't, there's no need for the blocker to reveal himself day 3 either. That said, if we don't hit a mafia on or before day 3, run the math. I already did. We're put into a massive hole. | ||
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On July 03 2010 10:53 rastaban wrote: Worse case scenario goes like this now 17/3 (2 mob + 1 traitor) day 2: 14/4 day 3: 11/5 day 4: 7/6 - if we hang GF this night day 5: 6/5 - we have to be right every night from this point on or lose, I would say though, that we are unlikely to be THAT unlucky so day 4 would be more likely 8/5 which puts us in a bad place but I would say day 4 is most important. Not sure if my day 4 is your day 3, and I am not trying to argue for or against any claims with this just want to put the numbers out there. If mafia controls day 3's lynch, what day do we end up at. That's rite. | ||
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On July 03 2010 10:57 rastaban wrote: With so many people unable to vote on Ls new plan I say we go with the old and then modify it for night 2 if needed. Final tally was by my count: citi.zen - 2 (Korynne, BM) Korynne - 1 (Chezinu) YellowInk - 5 (lakrismamma, youngminii, rastaban, Abenson, BrownBear) rastaban - 1 (Hesmyrr) To Roleblocker: If the majority doesn't change, please roleblock YellowInk. Roleblocker acts during the night. We have 24 hours to talk about this. | ||
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On July 03 2010 11:04 youngminii wrote: Mafia doesn't necessarily control day 3's lynch. The plan isn't to put absolute faith in those that are roleblocked, the plan is to check to see if they're scum. If they're not, they're put back in with the rest of us where they may or may not be scum. If they are, it gives us a kill. This is an interesting post. Please elaborate. | ||
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On July 03 2010 11:17 youngminii wrote: Unless I'm misunderstanding something, you're suggesting that if we go on with the plan, mafia will control day 3's lynch. The main purpose of the plan is to find people aligned with mafia. The plan is not meant to prove the innocence of anyone. So if we use the plan and we fail to find anyone aligned with mafia, then in the worst case scenario.. On day 3, there will be 11 pro-town and 5 anti-town. 9 to lynch. They wouldn't necessarily 'control' the vote as they would need 4 pro-town to vote with scum. To make things worse for scum, the traitor wouldn't know who's who and the mafia themselves don't know who the GF is. It doesn't seem that hopeless for town. They don't necessarily 'control' the vote until they hit their win condition of outnumbering the plan. They do, however, have the option of faking being RB'd to push the town into a very easy lynch on someone who isn't mafia on day 3, which is the same as controlling the lynch. No one has ever said that we need to trust the person who's been roleblocked if mafia hits go through, so I have no idea why you're even mentioning that. Without a jailer to protect from recruitment, the roleblocked player is a fantastic recruit target. As for the potential 'flaw' in the plan, I don't see why you assume we're sitting on the same group of 3 for 3 days? As stated above, we aren't proving innocence with our roleblocks, so unless mafia miss a hit, there's really no reason to not draw up a new 3 man list each day. | ||
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What the fuck. | ||
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I'll suggest that if you want to take a shit on my plan, develop one that doesn't let mafia completely control how we proceed. I'd rather not give them a huge chunk of exploitable material to work with, but lakris would disagree. On the plus side, he's succinct. Sleep time. | ||
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On July 05 2010 00:54 YellowInk wrote: I had come to this conclusion before the game had started. I didn't say as much because I didn't want to let on that mafia could play so aggressively. This is why I objected to L's plan. This is why I don't trust zeks. To be honest, I havn't figured out a counter strategy to aggressive mafia play. Ignoring roleclaims gets us nowhere - I'm not about to lynch zeks or a cold claiming DT either. The only way we seem to be able to win is if we get lucky enough to lynch the godfather within the first few days. After this, chances seem really really slim. There's a big difference between a game with a cult that can recruit, but not kill, where the cult leader dies when they try to recruit mafia... and a cult that can recruit, gets KP, and doesn't die to night hits or poor choice of recruit. This is why at the start I felt there really wasn't much chance for town unless we have multiple free masons (or get super lucky). From DTA's earlier description of how he set up the game, I believe we only have one free mason pair and one set of lovers, though. Since the idea of aggressive mafia play is clearly out in the open now, lets discuss. How can we counter if it mafia plays this way? There's a reason why I wanted the masons to come out on day 1; On day 1, there is a single goon and a single godfather. According to the rules, they aren't in contact. Either the goon or the Gf fake claiming into the position of mason essentially does so alone. If the real masons see this, not only do they know they've caught a mafia member, but they also know that they can 100% confirm their innocence by revealing the second mason pair if their claim is contested. Worst case scenario, one dies for the goon on day 1, leaving 0 mafia or a dead GF on night 1. Assuming a 0 sized mafia team means 0 kp (which makes sense given how night 0 played out), mafia would essentially have accomplished nothing, thrown away a kp, giving the town a free correct lynch and they would have given the town's RB and DT an extra day to sniff them out, and the hatter an extra day to lay bombs. It is absolutely 0% possible for mafia to claim into masons on day 1 unless one of the following happens: 1) there are no masons. 2) the masons are incredibly stupid and stay silent. On the other point; how can you counter aggressive mafia play? Well it seems pretty simply; you need to kill the GF. This is why I've been saying that day 3 is our final stand. Mafia can gambit wayyyy too much into the final days if we give them a cushion. Additionally the easiest way is to call for full roleclaims on a certain day coupled with double lynches and potentially intentionally lynch the hatter to take out as many people with conflicting claims as possible when we're at that apogee of information. We might have 1 or 2 annoying recruitments after that fact, but being able to channel 6 town controlled hits into a group 9-11 people who are highly likely to include the GF gives us a fighting chance. Its not a fantastic idea, but frankly I don't see better options. | ||
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L, did you read this? I laughed a bit when I did. No one counterclaims vs Zeks. You yourself analyse that all rational reactions to a fake claim would involve a single or double counterclaim. You then state you're still suspicious of Zeks. You then state that the town having 2 known 100% confirmed townies sharing 50% medic protection chance is horrendous for us, and that it benefits mafia hugely because they got lynched on day 1. You also surmise that we'll roleblock the worst possible target for roleblocking when the information is known. The only almost-even move would be a traitor fake claim, and even then he just trades himself for a mason identity instead of trading himself for up to a full double lynch and coroner by stirring shit up during a double lynch. Uncharacteristically bad logic from you :/. I'll assume it has to do with a hangover because I have one too. | ||
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I have been chock full of parties. I'll post some ideas when I get back (likely midway into tomorrow). | ||
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