EPTGodfather Mafia - Page 11
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L
Canada4732 Posts
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YellowInk
United States578 Posts
Mass roleclaim is bad. Bad Chez Bad. Hang the Chez for even suggesting. Cahoots! Stalemates are not good for town. They're not terrible, either, IF the godfather is dead, but since as a non-roleblocking townie it's hard for one to be sure if we're actually in a stalemate or perhaps had a lucky medic/vet in between two role blocks. Double lynches should be used in the mid to late game, not in the early game. It's a town empowering ability. Right now we'd be shooting blanks. Later we'll need them to clean up the scum. If I were the godfather, I would have recruited a top player. Remember that we're going to have a very difficult time lynching any of the skilled players to begin with. While the numbers are thin, they're going to play no differently from any other townie. It doesn't matter that we know who the skilled players are, I am not about to bet the game on lynching L or Korynne or BM tonight. If we were to start lynching these players, the godfather would then switch to going after middling players, so there's not much advantaged to be gained by making a plan to lynch top players. Ok, so that last point wasn't so quick. Recruiting games are tough. You can't trust anyone - unfortunately especially those who get named as 'strong'. | ||
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YellowInk
United States578 Posts
On July 01 2010 12:59 Korynne wrote: Also I just realized a really good way for godfather to tell mafia that he is the godfather without letting the town know. Should I reveal this information to town so we can look out for it? Or should I only reveal it when I see a player do it? Sit on it. If the godfather knows it, it's risky for him to do so anyway. | ||
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Korynne
Canada990 Posts
1) Should I reveal it so the GF can't use it? And like, if I die early then at least it's out there? 2) Should I not reveal it so I can catch someone doing it? Also, people, comment on the whole roleblock instead of lynch idea!! Idea: We vote in this thread, roleblocker blocks whoever gets majority votes. If nightkill doesn't happen, kill the guy. (Mafia wastes a nightkill to get the guy killed) If nightkill happens, don't kill the guy. (Could be GF, but not mafia) This way we also don't have to worry so much about the whole like, when you die your role is not given kind of thing. Because if the guy wasn't mafia, then mafia would have had to not use their nightkill to get him killed, which means mafia now has to kill whoever we decide on during the day, or we get to keep more townies around. Don't forget that people can then get recruited later, so they're not confirmed townies, just confirmed for now townies. Problem: If we don't have a roleblocker... well we're kind of screwed. xD If the GF recruits roleblocker we're kind of really screwed. xD So basically comment on if it's a good idea, and comment on how likely you think there will be a roleblocker in the game. I figure there's a high enough chance, but the other issue is of course if GF recruits roleblocker... which is like... xD No idea what the chances are. | ||
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DCLXVI
United States729 Posts
On July 01 2010 12:49 Korynne wrote: So I don't think that idea works very well... but if we go ahead and pretend there's at least one roleblocker, we can roleblock instead of lynching someone. If mafia doesn't kill that night, we lynch the guy, if mafia does kill that night then we don't lynch the guy. So if mafia wants to get the guy killed they have to sacrifice their night kill to get the guy killed, so basically it would be like us not lynching and mafia nightkilling that guy. I think that's a valid plan. But that requires a roleblocker... so... I don't know how confident we are on that matter. =\ So if we go ahead with this, it means we should pseudovote in this thread, and only vote to kill someone in the other thread when a night kill doesn't happen. I don't think this plan would work very well. Even if we did have a roleblocker on our side and we declared a target for him/her, we could not guarantee someone as town for more than a day. The godfather could always recruit the roleblocked person the next night. Also, can the mafia choose not to kill at night? If so then the mafia could choose not to kill when the roleblocked player is townie so that the town lynches the townie the next day and throws off our numbers for a bit. I don't understand why you say that the mafia have to sacrifice a night kill to kill the roleblocked guy, he is only safe for a day unless you plan on having him roleblocked for the whole game. That would hurt if he/she was a blue role and the chances that we have a roleblocker drop each day. This method uses our lynches to find the mafia, but unless we find the godfather we are just fighting a losing battle. Keeping the mafia numbers down is good though, so there is merit to this strategy. I suppose the longer the town can keep ahead of the mafia the more the godfather will have to say and the easier he/she will be found. | ||
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Chezinu
United States7447 Posts
On July 01 2010 13:12 YellowInk wrote: A few quick points I want to stick into this flurry. Mass roleclaim is bad. Bad Chez Bad. Hang the Chez for even suggesting. Cahoots! Stalemates are not good for town. They're not terrible, either, IF the godfather is dead, but since as a non-roleblocking townie it's hard for one to be sure if we're actually in a stalemate or perhaps had a lucky medic/vet in between two role blocks. Double lynches should be used in the mid to late game, not in the early game. It's a town empowering ability. Right now we'd be shooting blanks. Later we'll need them to clean up the scum. If I were the godfather, I would have recruited a top player. Remember that we're going to have a very difficult time lynching any of the skilled players to begin with. While the numbers are thin, they're going to play no differently from any other townie. It doesn't matter that we know who the skilled players are, I am not about to bet the game on lynching L or Korynne or BM tonight. If we were to start lynching these players, the godfather would then switch to going after middling players, so there's not much advantaged to be gained by making a plan to lynch top players. Ok, so that last point wasn't so quick. Recruiting games are tough. You can't trust anyone - unfortunately especially those who get named as 'strong'. I never said to mass roleclaim.. | ||
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
And now everyone's placing me in the middle pool. Curses. Gotta work harder at being a better player. I'm not striving to be the best player, but I do want to work my skill level to a point where I can at least be considered very good. But now for some funtimes. Korynne: On July 01 2010 12:02 Korynne wrote: I personally put BrownBear down with A5J and Hesmyrr, he's not quite as active as I'd like him to be, whereas me and YInk post a lot more I think. Referring to BM's list, placing me as a player minimally likely to be recruited. Then, next page: On July 01 2010 12:33 Korynne wrote: So probably if I was GF I would go for middle of the road people, like BrownBear/Hesmyrr/AcrossFiveJulys. Enough skill to not like, out the entire mafia somehow, and under the radar enough to not be under heavy scrutiny like citi.zen or L. OBJECTION! That is a contradiction, missy. Explain yourself? | ||
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AcrossFiveJulys
United States3612 Posts
--I'll agree at least with the people saying that that 2nd tier skill level players are probably the most likely to be chosen. Of course, the godfather knows that too, so some meta level strategies might be used. --Spotting the godfather is going to be extremely difficult unless he/she sucks at playing the role. Spotting recruited mafia will be easier because we should be able to notice at least some shift in posting style, whether it be increased interest, decreased activity, fuzzier logic, etc. --This is going to be tough for the town, because the mafia get to keep replenishing if they lose people. I bet the town has an absurd amount of blues to compensate. --It's going to be very weird that we won't know dead people's roles, even whether or not they were mafia (right?). | ||
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DCLXVI
United States729 Posts
On July 01 2010 13:15 Korynne wrote: youngminii, the question is more like: 1) Should I reveal it so the GF can't use it? And like, if I die early then at least it's out there? 2) Should I not reveal it so I can catch someone doing it? Are you asking for the mafia to kill you before you can say this? I would rather had you not announce this in the thread at all until the GF does the tell Also, people, comment on the whole roleblock instead of lynch idea!! I sorta did while you edited your idea  question - we still have to vote in the other thread to not get modkilled unless we can vote on no lynch - is that possible? Also, is there a list of these basic rules that never appear in the OP of games? | ||
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rastaban
United States2294 Posts
There is some people calling out for L as a leader so I have an idea and wanted to see if any one saw some glaring holes. We could request the DT and the Role Blocker both target him. If he is mafia or recruited then there would be no night kill so we could lynch him the next day. If he is gf then the hit goes through but now the DT knows who he is and it would be worth role-claiming to eliminate the GF If he is townie then the enemies hit goes through but we have a confirmed townie to lead us, then the jailer keeps him on lock down so he isn't recruited The flaw I see with this is that the Mafia could just kill him as their hit, though that might be too obvious The second option would be to jail rather than DT him (in conjunction with roleblock since it still goes through) The difference is that in this case the vulnerability is that if he is GF instead we won't know but since he role blocked he wouldn't get a recruit that night. though at that point we would need to decide if we wont to keep him jailed or try a DT sometime to confirm he is not mafia | ||
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youngminii
Australia7514 Posts
--It's going to be very weird that we won't know dead people's roles, even whether or not they were mafia (right?). Coroner You have the ability to reveal the true identities of the dead once during the game. Your ability can be activated at night and used on that night’s and all previous deaths. In the following beginning-of-day post, it will be mentioned that your power (your name will not be specified) was used, and I will reveal all of the true roles / identities / alignments of the dead players. | ||
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youngminii
Australia7514 Posts
Also, you're forgetting a huge flaw in your plan. The mafia can choose not to kill anyone. And that's that. | ||
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Korynne
Canada990 Posts
On July 01 2010 13:16 DCLXVI wrote: I don't think this plan would work very well. Even if we did have a roleblocker on our side and we declared a target for him/her, we could not guarantee someone as town for more than a day. The godfather could always recruit the roleblocked person the next night. Also, can the mafia choose not to kill at night? If so then the mafia could choose not to kill when the roleblocked player is townie so that the town lynches the townie the next day and throws off our numbers for a bit. I don't understand why you say that the mafia have to sacrifice a night kill to kill the roleblocked guy, he is only safe for a day unless you plan on having him roleblocked for the whole game. That would hurt if he/she was a blue role and the chances that we have a roleblocker drop each day. This method uses our lynches to find the mafia, but unless we find the godfather we are just fighting a losing battle. Keeping the mafia numbers down is good though, so there is merit to this strategy. I suppose the longer the town can keep ahead of the mafia the more the godfather will have to say and the easier he/she will be found. Man, do I have to explain everything 5 times before people get it? xD It's not to declare that person as town, it's to not waste lynches on townies. At that point, they are not mafia, so at that point, killing them is lowering town power. We want to keep as many people around as possible. If mafia chooses not to kill that night, then they wasted a night kill! So instead of killing someone they choose, they have to not kill someone, so that the person we chose dies. That sounds like a pretty friggin awesome deal to me. We vote to roleblock one person every night, and we vote to lynch that person if no night kill went on at night. So at most 1 person dies per day/night cycle, which prolongs the game which should be good for townies. We're not really using lynches to find mafia as much as like, forcing mafia+town down to 1KP. And we never let a mafia go unlynched unless it's GF. This is a perfectly awesome idea unless we have no roleblocker or roleblocker is mafia'd. | ||
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
On July 01 2010 13:20 AcrossFiveJulys wrote: I'm still trying to digest this new setup and how we should go about playing, but here are some thoughts for now: --I'll agree at least with the people saying that that 2nd tier skill level players are probably the most likely to be chosen. Of course, the godfather knows that too, so some meta level strategies might be used. I'm not so so worried about that, mostly because it's dangerous to start thinking too meta - you end up outsmarting yourself. I'm mostly asking myself "If I were the GF, how would I play" and rolling with that, which is my normal method of trying to scumhunt. Tomorrow, I'll ask myself "if I were newly-recruited mafia, how would I post today" and go about looking for that, too. On July 01 2010 13:20 AcrossFiveJulys wrote: --Spotting the godfather is going to be extremely difficult unless he/she sucks at playing the role. Spotting recruited mafia will be easier because we should be able to notice at least some shift in posting style, whether it be increased interest, decreased activity, fuzzier logic, etc. This. I personally think that unless there's a major scumslip, we're basically going to have to lynch the GF by accident, at least for the first 3 days. We also can't have a neutral-revolt the way we did Caller's game, because a) there's only 2 factions, us and scum, and b) DTA will forcechoke us if we try to XD On July 01 2010 13:20 AcrossFiveJulys wrote: --This is going to be tough for the town, because the mafia get to keep replenishing if they lose people. I bet the town has an absurd amount of blues to compensate. Possibly. The roleblocker is going to be huge if we have it. If we don't, we have a very tough fight ahead of us. On July 01 2010 13:20 AcrossFiveJulys wrote: --It's going to be very weird that we won't know dead people's roles, even whether or not they were mafia (right?). I'm personally really looking forward to how this works. It's given me a few ideas for a game somewhere down the line. | ||
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AcrossFiveJulys
United States3612 Posts
On July 01 2010 13:15 Korynne wrote: Idea: We vote in this thread, roleblocker blocks whoever gets majority votes. If nightkill doesn't happen, kill the guy. (Mafia wastes a nightkill to get the guy killed) If nightkill happens, don't kill the guy. (Could be GF, but not mafia) This way we also don't have to worry so much about the whole like, when you die your role is not given kind of thing. Because if the guy wasn't mafia, then mafia would have had to not use their nightkill to get him killed, which means mafia now has to kill whoever we decide on during the day, or we get to keep more townies around. Don't forget that people can then get recruited later, so they're not confirmed townies, just confirmed for now townies. Problem: If we don't have a roleblocker... well we're kind of screwed. xD If the GF recruits roleblocker we're kind of really screwed. xD So basically comment on if it's a good idea, and comment on how likely you think there will be a roleblocker in the game. I figure there's a high enough chance, but the other issue is of course if GF recruits roleblocker... which is like... xD No idea what the chances are. Another problem I see is that vets almost certainly are in this game, so someone might not die even if mafia targeted him (while KP=1). Which also means that mafia can always pretend to be a vet if we did succeed in roleblocking a mafioso. I think we should definitely do this day 1, since lynching someone at random has a tiny chance of actually working for us and will almost certainly result in a lynching a townie. If a vet claims to be hit, we'll lynch him anyway. Once day2 starts, we should implement a new plan. | ||
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Korynne
Canada990 Posts
Normal situation: We lynch X during the day, mafia kills Y during the night. This situation: We don't lynch X during the day, mafia kills Y during the night. (we don't lynch X and X can't be mafia) We don't lynch X during the day, mafia doesn't kill at night and we lynch X the next day. (Mafia doesn't get to kill Y) We don't lynch X during the day, mafia can't kill at night. (we lynch X, X is mafia) Use your brain peoples. -.- Simple logic here. | ||
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
On July 01 2010 13:25 Korynne wrote: + Show Spoiler + On July 01 2010 13:16 DCLXVI wrote: I don't think this plan would work very well. Even if we did have a roleblocker on our side and we declared a target for him/her, we could not guarantee someone as town for more than a day. The godfather could always recruit the roleblocked person the next night. Also, can the mafia choose not to kill at night? If so then the mafia could choose not to kill when the roleblocked player is townie so that the town lynches the townie the next day and throws off our numbers for a bit. I don't understand why you say that the mafia have to sacrifice a night kill to kill the roleblocked guy, he is only safe for a day unless you plan on having him roleblocked for the whole game. That would hurt if he/she was a blue role and the chances that we have a roleblocker drop each day. This method uses our lynches to find the mafia, but unless we find the godfather we are just fighting a losing battle. Keeping the mafia numbers down is good though, so there is merit to this strategy. I suppose the longer the town can keep ahead of the mafia the more the godfather will have to say and the easier he/she will be found. Man, do I have to explain everything 5 times before people get it? xD It's not to declare that person as town, it's to not waste lynches on townies. At that point, they are not mafia, so at that point, killing them is lowering town power. We want to keep as many people around as possible. If mafia chooses not to kill that night, then they wasted a night kill! So instead of killing someone they choose, they have to not kill someone, so that the person we chose dies. That sounds like a pretty friggin awesome deal to me. We vote to roleblock one person every night, and we vote to lynch that person if no night kill went on at night. So at most 1 person dies per day/night cycle, which prolongs the game which should be good for townies. We're not really using lynches to find mafia as much as like, forcing mafia+town down to 1KP. And we never let a mafia go unlynched unless it's GF. This is a perfectly awesome idea unless we have no roleblocker or roleblocker is mafia'd. But see, that's the issue. We don't know for sure. We could be just hurting ourselves. It might work for like 1 or 2 nights, but the longer we use it the riskier it becomes. I don't like it, personally. Placing too much faith in one particular role being in the game is inviting disaster. I see your logic behind it, and it would be a great plan if we knew 100% there was a roleblocker, but we don't, so... | ||
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Korynne
Canada990 Posts
On July 01 2010 13:25 youngminii wrote: Okay, I dislike the roleblocking idea because it gives the GF ample time to build up his army. That's a lot of potentially crucial blues lost. Also, you're forgetting a huge flaw in your plan. The mafia can choose not to kill anyone. And that's that. Um, it gives us more townies around. We could always actually lynch someone if we think they are GF. But if we think someone is mafia this is the way to go. The awesome part about this idea is that if we have a town-aligned roleblocker, it means that mafia cannot escape lynch but we just have more townies around. Also: I'm okay with lynching vet or GF. Since there's probably only one vet, and losing a vet is not a big deal. And like, killing GF by using the fact that he can't die to one night kill actually makes this plan even better! | ||
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YellowInk
United States578 Posts
As should be clear, the godfather needs to be the primary target. Also keep in mind that the mafia don't know who the godfather is. This means the mafia may take out the godfather for us. How do we accomplish this? Activity levels in the early game are absolutely crucial. I don't care what you're saying, I just want you talking. If you were a noob-level godfather, you might choose to say almost nothing. The mafia aren't going to hit you because you're not helping the town - they are glad to have inactives hanging out. With an anti-inactivity policy in effect, you're forcing the godfather to talk. So the level 1 godfather would be talking at some moderate amount, but the godfather doesn't want to help the town either, so there are traditional tells to watch for. Being aware of this, just like watching for usual scum, we want to keep a close eye on the middle-of-the-road players that are contributing minimally but being active in the thread. The level 2 godfather might be very active to escape any such scrutiny, though probably not spouting out a plan like I am here. But we don't even force the godfather to play at this level unless we force everyone to talk. Now since we KNOW almost everyone is town aligned right now, we can rightfully expect almost every single player to be active in thread and putting forth their ideas. Therefore, any player that is playing sub-optimally right now needs to be lynched. If we don't get rid of the inactives now, we'll be plagued with them the rest of the game - and even a DT check won't save their face since they can get recruited. If we force the godfather to be active, they may get hit by the mafia. If the godfather remains inactive or suspiciously unproductive, we'll lynch for it. Speaking of DTs, yes, it is worth outing yourself immediately to finger the godfather. Then, once the godfather is dead, we'll be at a somewhat informed state of the game and be able to immediately go after scum. Hopefully we'll take out a couple scum along the way anyhow - but this should not be a priority. After all, lynching a scum and having one recruited from our ranks is a net loss to us. Lets get to it, shall we? | ||
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DarthThienAn
United States2734 Posts
On July 01 2010 13:21 DCLXVI wrote: question - we still have to vote in the other thread to not get modkilled unless we can vote on no lynch - is that possible? Also, is there a list of these basic rules that never appear in the OP of games? Yes, you have to vote in the other thread to avoid being modkilled. No, you cannot vote for no lynch. What basic rules are you looking for? I think the OP covers everything o.O. | ||
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