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Slight problem: If Caller refuses to import the three kingdom rules to the YT, which he heavily hinted when he said he'll abstain from answering the question, a bunch of the standard YT qualities are off:
1) YT might be able to grab more than 1 person per night.
2) YT might start with a bunch of people.
Both of which are both good and bad. On the good side, the YT has a far higher chance of leader picking early if they have a smaller available group to pick. YT not only has to dodge picking an unaligned person, but they also need to avoid picking a group that the other leaders are avoiding (who must themselves avoid each other). So for any given day, the YT "don't taze me bro" list is 6 people if the other leaders don't cross their streams.
But that also means that the YT might have a day 3-4 win if they recruit perfectly and no one lynches their converted army mens.
So yeah, given that 70% of people won't be on YT's side when we reach a LYLO situation, you should care pretty hard about who they are.
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Okay, guys.
On May 19 2010 04:50 Caller wrote:
a) no, they don't even know that they are recruited. The only one that gets any confirmation is the leader.
This is critical. The fact you don't even know which side you are working for - and I promise you nobody but YT will inform the "victim" of their target - is highly disadvantageous for us neutrals. Hell, you may be playing game as usual when BAM! faction leader being an idiot gets himself killed, and who suffers for it? Us! Do you want to suffer such ignominy? I tell you not! Eighteen other neutrals listening to my voice, ponder my speech.
I will tell you of an way out. We will rebel against the injustice and wrestle control of the game out of these so-called leader's grasps. I propose...
NEUTRAL REVOLUTION
Take note of the winning condition Caller has listed:
Victory is attained when one faction outnumbers all the other factions.
On May 11 2010 15:23 Caller wrote:
i should probably specify that when i say outnumber all other groups, i mean that one group has more than 50% of the total player population.
You know what this means? Even when there is one faction leader remaining, as long as he doesn't overwhelm us, he can't win. Let's pull a Battler and turn around the chessboard. What do you see?
I see a four cult game, with us neutrals as Townies.
Let me stress that.
OUR PRIORITY AS NEUTRALS IS TO HUNT DOWN THE FOUR FACTION LEADERS, AND KILL THEM ALL. THEN IT WILL BE "TOWN" VICTORY, SINCE NEUTRALS (TOWN) IS THE ONLY FACTION REMAINING.
This plan is beneficial for all of us, this is the plan that makes sense, and this is EXACTLY what we should be doing. Neutrals, we are no longer neutrals. We are now comrades fighting for mutual victory, struggling against the tyranny of the cults awaiting us. Hereby I dedicate myself into finding, and killing, all the leader in this game. Who agrees with me?!?!?
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On May 19 2010 05:23 BrownBear wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2010 04:47 BrownBear wrote:On May 19 2010 04:23 XeliN wrote:
BrownBear catchup, same challenge to you, provide one coherent argument for why a unaligned (as most of us are) townie ought to try to vote for a suspected yellow at this stage.
Otherwise there is no reason to do so and I would go back to the inactive//Abenson idea purely for reasons of game quality. The way I see it, every night, 3 people are recruited to the 3 main factions, and one is recruited to the Yellow Turbans. Naturally, there will be some overlap, occasionally two factions will try to recruit the same person and bounce, that kind of thing, but for the most part this will hold true. There are 24 people in the game, meaning that the pool of recruitable people is 20. The YT leader has a 3 in 20 chance of screwing up and getting his entire faction killed if he picks completely randomly, which he will not do, so it's fairly safe to say that he is not going to recruit a faction leader unless he gets very unlucky or reads someone completely wrong. Thus, the pool of potential recruits for each of the 3 main factions is going to decrease by 1 person a night. Now, humor me for a second, and lets run through a sample situation. For this, let's assume (even though this won't be true) that each faction leader picks a different person each night, and no two people pick the same person in one night, so 4 people are getting recruited per night. Let's also assume that each faction leader is smart and can figure out who their rivals are, so no faction leaders are picked to recruit. The first night, everyone is able to pick, no trouble, so there's one person dead from the "lynch" during the day, there are 15 unaligned, and 2 people in every faction (counting the faction leaders). The second day, let's say another unaligned person is lynched, as this is the most likely occurence. Then, another round of recruitment happens as normal, so there are 2 dead players, 11 unaligned, and 3 per faction. The third day, lets say a green guy gets lynched, as it's now more likely that someone in a faction is going to be lynched than an unaligned player. Then, at night, let's say Red tries to recruit a Yellow, so fails (I assume he gets a message saying "You cant recruit that player" or something similar), Blue recruits an unaligned, Green recruits a Blue, and Yellow recruits an unaligned. So now we have 9 unaligned players, 3 Red players, 3 Blue players, 3 Green players, and 4 yellow players. The fourth day, just for kicks, an unaligned player gets killed. At night, Yellow recruits a Blue, Red recruits a Blue, Blue recruits an Unaligned, and Green recruits a Red. So now we have 7 unaligned, 3 Reds, 2 Blues, 4 Greens, and 5 Yellows. See where I'm going with this? Obviously, I ignored some things such as nightkills and assumed some things that probably won't happen with this game, but my point is: The Yellow Turbans are the most likely to get very strong very quickly, unless we harass them early. In the example above, the Yellow Turbans now have the largest voting bloc in the game, so assuming the YT leader has been reading the thread, he can now get people to start bandwagons, and begin targeting people who he thinks are faction leaders, as he will have enough armies to overcome their natural defense. Because unaligned players will probably just be bandwagoning with the biggest voting bloc, this can become a major issue very quickly. Of course, the YT leader could, at any point, accidentally try to recruit a faction leader and screw himself over, but I really don't think this is likely to happen. The way I see it, I have a very small chance of becoming a Yellow Turban for a while, as they only get 1 person per night, and I have a much larger chance of becoming part of one of the other factions, since they get up to 3 per night. Since I'll obviously want whatever faction I'm part of to win, I want the Yellow Turbans dead, even though I'm currently not part of any faction. Thus, I'm going to say, I will switch my vote off of Radfield if anyone explicitly says they will be gunning for Yellow Turbans with the daykill if they get it. There's my argument. Also, as an addendum, since PMs are allowed, the YT leader can just tell everyone he recruits who he is and what they are, as YTs are YTs for life once they get recruited, thus there is no danger that they get recruited away from him and tell on him to another faction leader. If he recruits someone that was part of a faction, and that person knows who the faction leader was, then they have every incentive to tell the YT leader, as they die if he dies. Thus, the bigger the YTs get, the more likely it is that the YTs will win, as they will likely have the knowledge of who at least some of the faction leaders are, and once they get 5-6 people they can just win the game easily by bandwagoning votes to a random YT, who will then target that faction leader.
I agree with you Brownbear that the Yellow Turbans are a threat to us all at this point, but how do you propose we sniff them out? It seems to me that a faction leader and a yellow turban will both be doing their best to blend in. Even if you find someone who seems fishy, you might just kill off a blue/red/green leader, which makes the Yellow Turbans even stronger.
This is why I'm leaning more with an overall approach to our day one Kill. The fact of the matter is that people who don't post much in the first 48hours probably won't post much the rest of the time either. So we might as well get rid of the dead weight to start, and make it a more active game for everyone.
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Following is how our veterans's prophercy of approaching manipulation and exploitation.
Exhibit A
On May 19 2010 05:56 Radfield wrote:
So if I'm reading this right, townies will never know for sure that they've ever been recruited? Sure a leader might tell us we're on team A or team B, but we'll have no idea if they're lying or not. So essentially, we never become part of a team?
If that's the case, how can the 19 townies ever make any real decisions? How will we even know if we're winning or losing?
Exhibit B
On May 19 2010 03:17 Fishball wrote:
Since enemy players can be recruited, that means a player can be "recruited" back and forth? If this is the case, is this game mainly a war among the 4 leaders and the rest are just chess pieces?
Stand up for yourself. Kill Faction leaders.
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See Radfield was visionary, the Caller's wording had blinded him, but in his mind he was always aware that this was going to be measly peasant vs these lofty cult leaders. His subconsciousness cried that this was what neutrals must do, and instead of playing for ourselves, we must rid this town of these scum menace.
how can the 19 townies ever make any real decisions? How will we even know if we're winning or losing?
He was imploring- deep inside, he knew we were all Townies. We are not neutrals. Caller is just trolling us.
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I see it as less of a four-cult game, and more of a two-stage game, since one cult is obviously much more powerful than the other three.
I would say at first, it's going to be more everyone vs. Yellow Turbans than faction wars, as most people seem to have realized that the Yellow Turbans are the most dangerous faction. The difference from normal Mafia, obviously, is that YTs have no voting power at first, but after a few days will probably be able to influence votes in their favor. They also have no nightkills, at least until they recruit people with night-killing roles. Thus, these first 2-3 days are crucial, as we want to kill off the YT leader before his faction can get powerful enough to simply roll us.
If we fail this first stage, YT will win. Assuming we manage to kill YT off, however, we then reach stage 2: A 3-clan war.
I'm going to ballpark maybe 14 people surviving to part two, and (hopefully) all 3 main factions, meaning that stage 2 of the game will be what everyone thought at first - three factions duking it out, recruiting each other, madness going on in the daily voting, that kind of fun hilarious anarchy. The problem is, to get there, we have to get through stage 1 first.
Thus, Radfield, while I agree with you that we don't really have much to go on at this point, we also don't really have a lot of time: We need to act quickly, because the bigger Yellow gets, the harder it's going to be for the rest of us to live. Thus, I say we lynch someone suspicious today, because it might be a bit of a gamble, but it hopefully will have a huge payoff.
I'm going to leave my vote on you unless someone else says "hey vote for me I will gun for YT" because whether or not you listen to me, your idea is the best fallback, and there's always the chance that YT leader is actually hiding among the inactives.
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On May 19 2010 04:50 Caller wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2010 04:05 Fishball wrote:On May 19 2010 03:49 Caller wrote:On May 19 2010 03:17 Fishball wrote:
So do the players ever know which leader recruited them?
Do the leaders know what powers the players have when he/she recruited them?
Since enemy players can be recruited, that means a player can be "recruited" back and forth? If this is the case, is this game mainly a war among the 4 leaders and the rest are just chess pieces?
no no yes and ^_^ Do the players ever know which Faction recruited them? (Yes, according to previous page?) Do the leaders know what character the player he recruited has? What is the incentive for the players to help a certain faction leader? I mean player A can be playing for Wu the first day, then playing for Shu the second day. Also, if player A carries crucial information of his faction, and was then recruited to another faction... well, you know what I'm going at. a) no, they don't even know that they are recruited. The only one that gets any confirmation is the leader.
Um...
On May 11 2010 21:23 Caller wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 21:11 Hesmyrr wrote:
Question
If your faction (green) consists of player A (leader), B, and C, if A successfully recruit player D, what message is D going to receive?
1. You have been recruited to green faction!
2. You have been recruited to green faction! Your comrades are B and C!
3. You have been recruited to green faction! The leader is A, and your comrades are B and C! They will receive only message 1.
Major contradiction here methinks.
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On May 19 2010 06:44 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2010 04:50 Caller wrote:On May 19 2010 04:05 Fishball wrote:On May 19 2010 03:49 Caller wrote:On May 19 2010 03:17 Fishball wrote:
So do the players ever know which leader recruited them?
Do the leaders know what powers the players have when he/she recruited them?
Since enemy players can be recruited, that means a player can be "recruited" back and forth? If this is the case, is this game mainly a war among the 4 leaders and the rest are just chess pieces?
no no yes and ^_^ Do the players ever know which Faction recruited them? (Yes, according to previous page?) Do the leaders know what character the player he recruited has? What is the incentive for the players to help a certain faction leader? I mean player A can be playing for Wu the first day, then playing for Shu the second day. Also, if player A carries crucial information of his faction, and was then recruited to another faction... well, you know what I'm going at. a) no, they don't even know that they are recruited. The only one that gets any confirmation is the leader. Um... Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 21:23 Caller wrote:On May 11 2010 21:11 Hesmyrr wrote:
Question
If your faction (green) consists of player A (leader), B, and C, if A successfully recruit player D, what message is D going to receive?
1. You have been recruited to green faction!
2. You have been recruited to green faction! Your comrades are B and C!
3. You have been recruited to green faction! The leader is A, and your comrades are B and C! They will receive only message 1. Major contradiction here methinks.
Caller you suck.
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On May 19 2010 06:44 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2010 04:50 Caller wrote:On May 19 2010 04:05 Fishball wrote:On May 19 2010 03:49 Caller wrote:On May 19 2010 03:17 Fishball wrote:
So do the players ever know which leader recruited them?
Do the leaders know what powers the players have when he/she recruited them?
Since enemy players can be recruited, that means a player can be "recruited" back and forth? If this is the case, is this game mainly a war among the 4 leaders and the rest are just chess pieces?
no no yes and ^_^ Do the players ever know which Faction recruited them? (Yes, according to previous page?) Do the leaders know what character the player he recruited has? What is the incentive for the players to help a certain faction leader? I mean player A can be playing for Wu the first day, then playing for Shu the second day. Also, if player A carries crucial information of his faction, and was then recruited to another faction... well, you know what I'm going at. a) no, they don't even know that they are recruited. The only one that gets any confirmation is the leader. Um... Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 21:23 Caller wrote:On May 11 2010 21:11 Hesmyrr wrote:
Question
If your faction (green) consists of player A (leader), B, and C, if A successfully recruit player D, what message is D going to receive?
1. You have been recruited to green faction!
2. You have been recruited to green faction! Your comrades are B and C!
3. You have been recruited to green faction! The leader is A, and your comrades are B and C! They will receive only message 1. Major contradiction here methinks.
lol oops
ok hows this, the recruiter chooses to let me know what option they want-no notification or faction notification
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Warning to recruiters
If you choose no notification, I will personally make it my mission to eliminate you and aim toward neutral victory. And I will make it my mission to bring as much neutrals into my cause as possible. Note that you recruiting me will not even stop me, since I wouldn't even know I was recruited or not rofl.
If notification, yeah we go after YT.
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So Now, YT would obviously always choose the notification option, since that would provide evidence beyond a doubt that they were YT, and not just some random dude pretending to be YT to start his own voting bloc.
Other factions have a bit of a gamble. The notification from Caller would simply tell a person that they were red, or blue, or green. Do the faction leaders then choose to contact the person? They know full well that if that person gets recruited away to another faction (or got forbid YT) then they have pretty much infallible proof of who a rival faction leader is... but there's no coordination if someone knows that they are green, but doesn't know who his allies are. It could lead to some hilarious incidents of a bunch of greens thinking that they know who their leader is, and bandwagoning votes to him, only to have him then choose to execute the REAL green leader.
I like this.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On May 19 2010 07:14 Caller wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2010 06:44 Incognito wrote:On May 19 2010 04:50 Caller wrote:On May 19 2010 04:05 Fishball wrote:On May 19 2010 03:49 Caller wrote:On May 19 2010 03:17 Fishball wrote:
So do the players ever know which leader recruited them?
Do the leaders know what powers the players have when he/she recruited them?
Since enemy players can be recruited, that means a player can be "recruited" back and forth? If this is the case, is this game mainly a war among the 4 leaders and the rest are just chess pieces?
no no yes and ^_^ Do the players ever know which Faction recruited them? (Yes, according to previous page?) Do the leaders know what character the player he recruited has? What is the incentive for the players to help a certain faction leader? I mean player A can be playing for Wu the first day, then playing for Shu the second day. Also, if player A carries crucial information of his faction, and was then recruited to another faction... well, you know what I'm going at. a) no, they don't even know that they are recruited. The only one that gets any confirmation is the leader. Um... On May 11 2010 21:23 Caller wrote:On May 11 2010 21:11 Hesmyrr wrote:
Question
If your faction (green) consists of player A (leader), B, and C, if A successfully recruit player D, what message is D going to receive?
1. You have been recruited to green faction!
2. You have been recruited to green faction! Your comrades are B and C!
3. You have been recruited to green faction! The leader is A, and your comrades are B and C! They will receive only message 1. Major contradiction here methinks. lol oops ok hows this, the recruiter chooses to let me know what option they want-no notification or faction notification
Would they choose for each recruitment? Or is it a one-shot deal that goes for every recruitment?
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On May 19 2010 07:24 Radfield wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2010 07:14 Caller wrote:On May 19 2010 06:44 Incognito wrote:On May 19 2010 04:50 Caller wrote:On May 19 2010 04:05 Fishball wrote:On May 19 2010 03:49 Caller wrote:On May 19 2010 03:17 Fishball wrote:
So do the players ever know which leader recruited them?
Do the leaders know what powers the players have when he/she recruited them?
Since enemy players can be recruited, that means a player can be "recruited" back and forth? If this is the case, is this game mainly a war among the 4 leaders and the rest are just chess pieces?
no no yes and ^_^ Do the players ever know which Faction recruited them? (Yes, according to previous page?) Do the leaders know what character the player he recruited has? What is the incentive for the players to help a certain faction leader? I mean player A can be playing for Wu the first day, then playing for Shu the second day. Also, if player A carries crucial information of his faction, and was then recruited to another faction... well, you know what I'm going at. a) no, they don't even know that they are recruited. The only one that gets any confirmation is the leader. Um... On May 11 2010 21:23 Caller wrote:On May 11 2010 21:11 Hesmyrr wrote:
Question
If your faction (green) consists of player A (leader), B, and C, if A successfully recruit player D, what message is D going to receive?
1. You have been recruited to green faction!
2. You have been recruited to green faction! Your comrades are B and C!
3. You have been recruited to green faction! The leader is A, and your comrades are B and C! They will receive only message 1. Major contradiction here methinks. lol oops ok hows this, the recruiter chooses to let me know what option they want-no notification or faction notification Would they choose for each recruitment? Or is it a one-shot deal that goes for every recruitment?
theyd choose for each recruit
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On May 19 2010 07:45 Caller wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2010 07:24 Radfield wrote:On May 19 2010 07:14 Caller wrote:On May 19 2010 06:44 Incognito wrote:On May 19 2010 04:50 Caller wrote:On May 19 2010 04:05 Fishball wrote:On May 19 2010 03:49 Caller wrote:On May 19 2010 03:17 Fishball wrote:
So do the players ever know which leader recruited them?
Do the leaders know what powers the players have when he/she recruited them?
Since enemy players can be recruited, that means a player can be "recruited" back and forth? If this is the case, is this game mainly a war among the 4 leaders and the rest are just chess pieces?
no no yes and ^_^ Do the players ever know which Faction recruited them? (Yes, according to previous page?) Do the leaders know what character the player he recruited has? What is the incentive for the players to help a certain faction leader? I mean player A can be playing for Wu the first day, then playing for Shu the second day. Also, if player A carries crucial information of his faction, and was then recruited to another faction... well, you know what I'm going at. a) no, they don't even know that they are recruited. The only one that gets any confirmation is the leader. Um... On May 11 2010 21:23 Caller wrote:On May 11 2010 21:11 Hesmyrr wrote:
Question
If your faction (green) consists of player A (leader), B, and C, if A successfully recruit player D, what message is D going to receive?
1. You have been recruited to green faction!
2. You have been recruited to green faction! Your comrades are B and C!
3. You have been recruited to green faction! The leader is A, and your comrades are B and C! They will receive only message 1. Major contradiction here methinks. lol oops ok hows this, the recruiter chooses to let me know what option they want-no notification or faction notification Would they choose for each recruitment? Or is it a one-shot deal that goes for every recruitment? theyd choose for each recruit
darn. Well better than nothing 
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On May 19 2010 00:21 Bill Murray wrote:
caller can say one thing and have done another
the wording BC used in talking to radfield is a dead giveaway of him fishing for information on leaders
the main reason we need worry that he could be doing that is because he is the yellow turban leader
i will admit that it is a necessity for people to do that from every player slot.
it would also be in your benefit to lie, L, about the method he used to pick.
based upon my character, though, i can GUARANTEE he handpicked roles.
YOU ARE THE YELLOW TURBAN LEADER! EXECUTE!
On May 19 2010 06:08 Hesmyrr wrote:Okay, guys. Show nested quote +On May 19 2010 04:50 Caller wrote:
a) no, they don't even know that they are recruited. The only one that gets any confirmation is the leader. This is critical. The fact you don't even know which side you are working for - and I promise you nobody but YT will inform the "victim" of their target - is highly disadvantageous for us neutrals. Hell, you may be playing game as usual when BAM! faction leader being an idiot gets himself killed, and who suffers for it? Us! Do you want to suffer such ignominy? I tell you not! Eighteen other neutrals listening to my voice, ponder my speech. I will tell you of an way out. We will rebel against the injustice and wrestle control of the game out of these so-called leader's grasps. I propose... NEUTRAL REVOLUTIONTake note of the winning condition Caller has listed: Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 15:23 Caller wrote:
i should probably specify that when i say outnumber all other groups, i mean that one group has more than 50% of the total player population. You know what this means? Even when there is one faction leader remaining, as long as he doesn't overwhelm us, he can't win. Let's pull a Battler and turn around the chessboard. What do you see? I see a four cult game, with us neutrals as Townies.Let me stress that. OUR PRIORITY AS NEUTRALS IS TO HUNT DOWN THE FOUR FACTION LEADERS, AND KILL THEM ALL. THEN IT WILL BE "TOWN" VICTORY, SINCE NEUTRALS (TOWN) IS THE ONLY FACTION REMAINING.This plan is beneficial for all of us, this is the plan that makes sense, and this is EXACTLY what we should be doing. Neutrals, we are no longer neutrals. We are now comrades fighting for mutual victory, struggling against the tyranny of the cults awaiting us. Hereby I dedicate myself into finding, and killing, all the leader in this game. Who agrees with me?!?!?
YES! HUNT DOWN EVERYONE! bwahahahahahaha
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Are people intentionally being idiots?
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FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
Qatol and Incognito are both cute
:3
And others who shall not be named now.
(This is a bookmark post)
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On May 19 2010 02:09 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2010 22:01 L wrote:
Being Cao Cao woulda been pretty sweet, but I never get roles I ask for.
Not even Manuel L. Hackson
In fact I yelled at caller for not giving me Cao Cao, but he told me all the roles were done by RNG exclusively (and as a side note I owe Ace a punches for that). Because of that, I don't think your case against BC is as strong as you've made it out to be.
I still think abenson is a better kill because frankly stupidity like his should be metagamed against. He's basically afk trolling deadweight every game. In terms of the behavioral analysis, all of the pins you put on BC can be put on abenson as well, but abenson doesn't act differently when he's mafia or town. If he's part of the turbans, there's pretty much nothing that'll give him away later on, and he'll always be a "oh, we'll kill him tomorrow" candidate.
That said, under abenson I'd put BC until he makes a reply post.
Apart from those two, Jugan, Scamp and Tricode seem to be worthy people to pressure or kill on day 1. Maybe more pressure when it comes to scamp, but the other two are just as deadweight. Abenson/Scamp would be the first two on my list based on metagaming. Both tend to be mostly useless to the town as they don't contribute, or afk their way to whatever their side's overall achievement is. Jugan will hopefully infuriate caller as he did to flamewheel and get himself modkilled, and Tricode will say something stupid to get himself offed. I would toss Iaaan onto the list as he is pretty much as useless as the others.
Can't deny it (;
Anyone know what KTR stands for?
And I agree with L. Everyone is stupid.
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What did you expect from this type of game?
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By the way, I sent everyone message telling them to choose notification because I was afraid this game will become elitist with majority of information in hands of the few minority, but I see it's going to be useless with Caller clarifying that leaders are going to make choice for each individual recruitment. It was worth trying.
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EPT
